November 9, 2023 • 38 mins
Are you tired of the never-ending cycle of hiring and searching for the perfect candidate? Do you wish there was a better way to find those hidden gems in the job market? In this episode of the Hire Calling Podcast, we're about to unveil the secret to recruiting top talent you might not even know you need – passive candidates.
Join host Pete Newsome and co-host Ricky Baez as they demystify the world of passive recruiting. They'll explain what makes passive candidates unique, why they're worth your time, and how to effectively engage with them.
Discover the power of social media, particularly LinkedIn, in building your credibility and connecting with potential candidates. Explore the art of storytelling in recruitment and learn why transparency can be your best ally. As Pete and Ricky delve into the complexities and challenges of passive recruiting, you'll gain valuable insights into creating a talent pipeline that can transform your hiring process.
Don't miss this episode if you're ready to revolutionize your recruiting strategy and find the hidden talent that can take your team to new heights.
7 Effective Passive Recruiting Techniques:
1. Employer Branding: Showcase your company's culture, values, and employee experiences online to attract passive candidates.
2. Employee Referrals: Motivate current employees to recommend potential candidates.
3. Social Media Presence: Engage on professional platforms like LinkedIn to catch passive candidates' attention.
4. Networking: Expand your network at industry events to build relationships with potential candidates.
5. Talent Communities: Engage with potential candidates through newsletters, webinars, or forums to keep them interested.
6. Content Marketing: Produce industry-related content to position your company as a thought leader.
7. Job Boards and Platforms: Post job openings on these platforms, as passive job seekers may browse them.
Additional Resources:
- Facebook Recruiting Strategies to Attract Top Candidates
- 13 Recruiting Trends for 2024
- Best Recruiting Messages to Enhance Your Candidate Outreach
🧠 WANT TO LEARN MORE? Be sure to subscribe and check out 4 Corner Resources at https://www.4cornerresources.com/
👋 FOLLOW PETE NEWSOME ONLINE:
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petenewsome/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/petenewsome?lang=en
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@PeteNewsome
Blog Articles: https://www.4cornerresources.com/blog/
👋 FOLLOW RICKY BAEZ ONLINE:
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/efrainrickybaez/
Blog Articles: https://www.baezco.com/baezco-blog
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Higher Calling podcast.
I'm Pete Newsom and this isyour source for all things
hiring, staffing and recruitingand I'm joined by Ricky Baez
again today.
Ricky, how are you?
I am doing great, Pete Doingawesome.
It's Monday morning, it's abeautiful day and it's almost
Halloween.
What could be better?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Well, I mean Thanksgiving, christmas.
That's a lot more time.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
A weekend, maybe A weekend I mean what?
Could be better than Mondaymorning.
How often do people say that?
Not very, I guess.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I mean not sarcastically, at least.
I mean people say it's Monday,but I'm actually enjoying this
Monday morning.
It's, I am.
And what better time to talkabout recruiting not just
recruiting Pete, but recruitingpassively, something that you
and I are both passionate about.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I certainly can't think of a better time.
So why don't we get right intoit then?
And let's do it?
Let's talk about passiverecruiting techniques.
That is a very differentapproach to recruiting, to
filling a job, than recruitingactive candidates.
So let's just quickly definewhat is a passive candidate.
Who is a passive candidate?
And my way of looking at it,ricky, is someone who doesn't
(01:14):
know.
They're on the job market,right, they don't think they're
a candidate, but I would tellyou and I have mentioned this to
you before, I'm sure I've beensaying this for years as an
analogy that everyone's on thejob market.
Always, there is a job that youwill leave your current position
for.
Now I even am the owner of mybusiness and the president of
(01:36):
the company.
However and I'm going to changethis I used to say if Bill
Belichick calls me and offers meTom Brady's job, but that's,
he's not there anymore.
So I'm going to go withsomething a little more current.
If Steve Kerr calls and asks meto come play for the Golden
State Warriors, I'm in $25million a year to play
basketball for a living.
(01:56):
I'm in.
So I love recruiting, I lovestaffing, but even me, there's a
job that I will leave for.
So, steve, if you're listening,I'm that passive candidate.
I don't think the call's comingthough, ricky.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Bill.
Well, you know what these daysBill Belichick might call you
because he's having a hard time.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Maybe Bill Right Maybe.
But a passive candidate is verydifferent than an active job
seeker.
They're someone who iscontending the role, thriving in
the role, probably, and theyreally don't have their eye on
the outside market.
They're not sendingapplications, their resumes
probably not posted.
So these are hidden gems in thejob market.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Well, they are, because you know it's, if
somebody is actively looking fora job, these are this is
somebody who obviously needs ajob.
But you know, you find somereally good information out of
people who are not looking for ajob, right, and if you're able
to really tap into their worldand understand what makes them
tick right and figure out howyou can bring them over to your
(03:03):
set of the house, you get in myopinion, you would get a much
better candidate, as if you'relooking for somebody.
I don't want to say that I'mdesperate, but they kind of have
no other choice, right, so theykind of I mean, I don't know,
pete, you tell me, right, ifsomebody is recruiting, what are
the I mean it's activelylooking for a job what are the
(03:25):
chances of them giving you astory that may not be true?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Well, there's a question that has to be asked
and answered.
That's what we know.
If you're unemployed, therecould be great reasons for it,
many, many great reasons,especially now we know there's
been so many layoffs of bigcompanies.
Great talent who's notavailable right now but as an
interviewer, as a hiring manager, as a talent acquisition
(03:49):
professional or even athird-party staffing recruiter
like us.
We have to ask the questionwhere, with a passive candidate,
those things aren't really onthe table, I don't have to worry
about why you're not working,because you are working.
So that is a factor for sure,and it's, but it's not perfect.
(04:11):
There's no perfect inrecruiting.
It's just not that simple.
We know that.
So let's talk about, let'sstart with the positives the
reasons why you would want torecruit passive candidates.
You just mentioned a big one,so let's start with there.
You know that these people are.
You don't come with baggage.
Maybe that's the easiest way tolook at it.
Just takes that little bit offthe table.
(04:32):
I'll give you another one.
It gives you access to a muchwider candidate pool because the
world is your candidate pool.
At that point, You're notlimited to people who are
applying to jobs and postingtheir resume.
You can go after anyone andeveryone.
So much broader candidate poolwhen you're recruiting passive
candidates.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I could not agree more, because if normal
recruiting a day in a normalrecruiters life would be going
on to some kind of a job boardthat they posted a position and
then they aggregate all theresumes from people who applied,
If you're passively recruiting,you don't go through that.
You have to find it.
So what I imagine this to be isyou, as a recruiter, you are
(05:16):
looking for a specific candidate.
So your job in passiverecruiting is to go and find
these qualities that you'relooking for in somebody who's
already working, and then youengage in conversation and then
in that conversation engagement,you figure out oh, they're not
happy with this.
This is something we can offer,and you have a much better
(05:37):
conversation.
So that's the part that I like,because you have way more
resumes or way more talents tolook at in comparison to what
you get from, I don't know,LinkedIn or Indy.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Well, it's a targeted approach versus dropping your
fishing line in the deep oceanand just waiting for something
to hit.
You're going after that targetand maybe if you're spearfishing
which I've never done, but Iimagine you go after what you
see.
And so when you're passivelyrecruiting, you are targeting
(06:14):
those kids who have those skillsets, who work at the companies
that you know are a potentialgood fit the industry.
So it's a much more directedsearch effort.
And one of the things as athird party recruiter that I
find inherently valuable when itcomes to passive candidates is
I don't have to worry about asmuch competition with them, and
(06:36):
for me that means that theyhaven't sent their resume all
over town.
And then if you're an activejob seeker rightfully so you are
trying to get in front of asmany opportunities as you can
very common, and I wouldn'tdiscourage that.
But that makes it difficultwhen you're recruiting to keep.
It's an extra level or layer ofthings to consider.
(07:00):
Okay, ricky, if you're mycandidate and I know you're
working with everyone in town inyour resumes, 100 different
places, as a third partyrecruiter I have to wonder is
you've already sent your resumeover to my client?
That's number one with oneclick recruiting.
You may not even remember thatyou did it.
So that's a potential problem.
And then, believe me, we've runinto that every staffing
company on the planet runs intothat eventually that the dreaded
(07:22):
double submittal.
Are you working with otherrecruiters who may not tell you
where your resume is going?
That's a complete nightmarewhen that happens.
So all of these things addcomplexity to an already complex
situation, and that is findingthe right candidate for the
right position and making thatmatch.
So when you're recruitingpassive camps, I don't have to
(07:43):
worry about that.
I know that you're working withme and not everyone else in
town.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
And that makes sense.
Because actually how I see it,Pete, to be honest, is if
somebody's actively looking fora job, you're right.
They have their resumes inseveral different spots, right.
So you're competing withseveral different other people,
other entities, whereas passiverecruiting you're competing with
one where they currently are.
That's the only competition youhave.
That's right.
(08:11):
And if you're able to show howyou can make their career or
their job just that much better,you're ahead of the game, right
.
Especially if they're notlooking Correct, Because if
you're able to convince themwith that one thing, I'm willing
to guess that they are more aptto see the whole application
and interview process through ifthey were courted right, versus
(08:34):
the other way around, wherethey have options.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Well, maybe right, but you're going to get turned
down a lot when you recruitpassive candidates because,
Correct, yeah, you have to offerthem something incrementally
better than what they alreadyhave, Not slightly better.
It needs to be a big step up.
A new title, increasedcompensation, better hours,
(08:56):
better future.
Now I could list a lot ofdifferent things there, because,
ultimately, I don't know what'simportant to you as a candidate
.
I don't know what yourpriorities are.
Maybe it's simply compensationand you say Pete, if you could
give me a 15% increase in income, I'll jump ship, but for some
(09:18):
people, that's not even near thetop of their priority list.
Maybe it's wanting a betterwork environment.
Or, of course, in the days thatwe're in right now, times that
we're in working from homeversus being in the office.
So that's a reason why someonemay stop and consider one way or
the other.
By the way, there's a lot offolks working at home.
(09:38):
I mean, this is maybe not themost popular statement or
expected statement, but there'sa lot of folks who've been sent
home and wish they could stillgo to the office every day.
So there's a lot of opportunityright now for candidates to be
recruited for an improvedsituation, whatever that means
to them.
And we don't know that withpassive candidates right when we
(09:59):
see a job application comethrough, we know they're
interested in the job as we'veposted it, but when we're
recruiting active candidates wedon't know.
So there is going to be a highrejection rate for people saying
nope nope nope, nope, notinterested.
But that's okay, it's part ofthe deal, adds time.
It's time consuming, ricky, todo it this way.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
It is, but you know what.
You have to be smart with yourtime as a recruiter, right?
So it's one of the things I wasjust thinking about, pete, is
that you know, if I'm arecruiter and I'm always on
LinkedIn, I'm always got myfinger on the pulse of what's
happening out there in theworkforce.
Today, one of the best thingsyou can do is pay attention to
the media and pay attention towhat companies are bringing
people back into the office andthese employees are not having
(10:43):
it Ding, ding, ding.
Go ahead and find out who theyare on LinkedIn.
If you are offering a flexiblework arrangement, give them a
call and say hey, I saw thisarticle.
I see you work with thisorganization.
We don't do that here.
We don't bring you back intothe office, right.
So you have to keep your ear tothe ground and have I mean I
hate to say it this way, pete,but I'm going to say it just how
(11:05):
you said about spearfishing yougot to get the right bait, you
got to get the right bait andyou have to have me one step
ahead of everybody else.
So, yeah, I'm with you 100%.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Well, and anyone who's who fishes knows.
Now I say this all we're goingdown this path.
This is, this is goingapparently going to be fishing
analogy day.
And I'm not.
I'm someone who's I'm a verypassive fisherman.
How's that Now?
But I know enough to to knowthat if I bring the wrong bait,
it doesn't matter how great thebait is for the wrong kind of
(11:35):
fish, it's not going to work in.
Or if I'm fishing in the wrongpond, so to speak, it's not
going to work.
And so you just have to know,as best you can, what, what is
going to be appealing, what isgoing to be attractive to that
candidate.
But it is resource and timeintensive.
That's real, the real drawbackto passive recruiting.
(11:57):
It's great when the rightresumes just show up on your
desk, and when you're recruitingpassive candidates, it's a
grind.
It's a commitment to a muchdeeper effort.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
It is because what you're doing because it's again
the opposite is you gotcandidates who are looking for a
job.
That's not who you're targetingas a recruiter.
You're targeting people who arenot looking for a job, so you
have that's like trying to sellsomebody a house who already
have multiple houses.
You have to let them know whatyou know, what's so special
about this house.
That's right.
You've got to have someconvincing involved to to let
(12:30):
them know.
So it is a different skill setright From a recruiter's
perspective.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
It's a different skill set, but I think every
recruiter has potential to do it.
I suspect most recruiters notall recruiters have done it.
I won't say most, not allrecruiters have done it because
it's harder.
I mean, there's so many toolsout there now that make passive
recruiting passive candidatesseemingly not as necessary, and
(12:58):
a lot of it will depend on thesearch.
If there's a, if there's a bigcandidate pool for the job
you're recruiting for, you don'tnecessarily have to do it.
If, as as you go higher up thechain of of both specialty and
and it going up throughmanagement and executive ranks,
where there's fewer qualityqualified candidates, that's
(13:20):
where it becomes more prevalentand necessary.
So, depending on the type ofpositions you recruit for, you
could go through your entirerecruiting career potentially
not recruit passive candidatesIf you're doing high volume, big
candidate pool positions.
But as you get into more nicheroles with specialized skill
sets and experience that has tocome to come along with the
candidate, it becomes more of anecessity.
(13:41):
So let's talk about some of thetechniques you can use, and we
have to start with the LinkedIn.
Today it is the place wherepeople live.
I like to think of LinkedIn asa site where people can put
their resume without having todefend posting their resume
publicly because it's not reallyseen as a resume.
(14:03):
But boy, it sure does look likea resume, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (14:07):
I like that.
Yeah, you know what it is.
It's especially on LinkedIn and, and you know what and I'm just
going to throw this out herePeople are going to hate this,
but you know I, I I get hit onLinkedIn quite a bit and you
know what?
I'm really popular.
Want to know how.
I know I'm popular, pete,because a lot of the LinkedIn
messages that I get are peopletelling me that somehow the
algorithm has connected us andit was divine intervention.
(14:28):
It's fate.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
It's just you're meant to.
You're meant to be connected.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I'm meant to be connected to the 500 people who
tell me that every week?
No, but you're right.
You know LinkedIn is the placefor you to it's it's.
It's like a supermarket for aproduct, product of process,
right, it's like a supermarket.
You're going in that down eachout.
You go down the it I'll lookthere's an IT person.
You think you go down the HRaisle, all these different
(14:53):
aisles, right, and you have yourpicking.
Some things are in clearance,right, and some things are out
of your price range, right.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
So you have to decide what you're looking for Okay,
there's a blog article there foryou to write.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
You need to make that I think you need to make.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Let that analogy run, run all the way through.
I'll do a fishing one and youdo a.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Clearance.
Let's see well up.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
But with with with LinkedIn, it's so different than
it did it was in the not toodistant past.
I remember when Monster was the800 pound gorilla in the space
and career builder wascandidates.
There was a feature wherecandidates could would post
their resume Privately becausethey didn't want their employer
to know they were looking for ajob.
(15:35):
Well, now I would tell youagain, because I'm a big fan of
passive recruiting I do believewhat I said earlier, that
everyone's a candidate, whetherthey realize it or not, for the
right job, that you don't haveto do that anymore.
You know more hiding.
So everyone's out there, andLinkedIn is up to about 950
million users, and Study I sawnot too long ago, or reports,
(15:59):
said that they were, at anygiven time, 60 Plus million
active job seekers.
Well, that leaves almost 900million other candidates to
recruit from.
So if you limit your searchonly to the active candidates,
you're missing the majority ofPossible candidates out there
for you.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Actually, pete, I think the opposite is true as
well, because I think it's whatwhat you said resonated with me.
You said that you know, back inthe day, right, people used to
put I think it was a monsterused to put their resumes.
Probably because they did, theydidn't want their superiors to
see it.
Now it's such an it's, it'ssuch an expected thing to do
that I sometimes questionsomebody who's been in the field
(16:39):
for 20 years and you don't havea LinkedIn profile.
That's the odd thing.
Now, right to me, it meansSpecifically, if you don't have
a LinkedIn profile, especiallyduring HR, I have huge questions
To what have you been doing inthe past 20 years?
So, for everybody out there,listening, please, you got to
have a LinkedIn profile, thatit's updated and it shows who
(17:02):
you are as a profession.
It it should personalize yourprofessional skill set.
That's what it should do.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Well, it should.
And as a job, as a professional, it's in your interest to have
recruiters contact you for, yeah, for these type types of
searches.
You'd never know what couldshow up on your doorstep and be
that great opportunity.
So, even if you consideryourself a passive candidate, or
If you consider yourselfsomeone who's not on the job
(17:30):
market, you wouldn't consideryourself a passive candidate.
The recruiter would.
But you should have yourLinkedIn profile updated and I
believe Colleges now and I don'tthink it's at the high school
level yet We'll have classes onputting up your LinkedIn profile
.
So, right from the start.
It's just it's become part ofthe professional culture for
knowledge workers in particular,not as much for blue collar
(17:51):
workers.
We know that because they'renot in front of the computer all
day.
So if you're in a laborintensive job, linkedin's not as
prevalent, so that is not theonly place to go find passive
Job seekers for sure, or passivecandidates you can join.
Industry associations, tradegroups.
That's a great place to do itand savvy recruiters do that all
(18:12):
the time Because they want tobe where the people are who they
would potentially recruit.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
See, I'm gonna jump on your, on your bandwagon of
fishing analogies, right?
If you're looking for a baths,if you're looking for a fish
that's in a in in a lake offresh water, you're not gonna go
fishing for that in the ocean,right?
So you have to know where youare.
So, if you have an open ITposition, right, it'll be a
great idea to go find wherethese IT talent live and play
(18:44):
which is where and thesenetworking events Right, and you
start handing out your I almostsay your gift card.
That would help you starthanding out your business card
and you start making theseconnections.
But the most important thing youcan do is a recruiter Pete,
especially a link, then, is toconsistently post relevant
topics, produce relevant contentin those business areas and
(19:04):
those business groups.
Especially a link, then, so youcan show what your company is
about, so you can show Otherpeople maybe who didn't know
what your company was about.
The more you show what yourorganization is well, what kind
of core values they have, thatwill attract the right candidate
for you and it'll make iteasier for you for passive
(19:26):
recruiting, right, because maybesomebody is not looking and
they see that that podcast youput or that article you pick and
it resonated with them.
They like, you like.
Oh man, you look them up,you're like this person got the
skills that I need right.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Well, there's a big credibility factor in that.
So we're talking to recruiters,and recruiters are Is a general
statement one of two groupscorporate recruiters, who may or
may not have a big,recognizable brand behind them.
So if you're recruiting fromGoogle, everyone's going to know
who Google is when you makethat call, if that's where
(20:01):
you're recruiting from.
If you're recruiting from Joe'sbait shack, right to use our
fishing analogy you may have towork a little harder to
establish who you are.
But if they look at yourcontent that you've created,
they look at your website, andthey see, wow, even though I
don't know this company or thisbrand, I that I see them as
(20:22):
credible because they've laidthe foundation through the
content they've created.
So I'm a big proponent of that,big fan of what you just
described, and we certainly tryto do that and it works, it's
effective.
It's very rewarding for me whenI hear someone say I've never
worked with your company, butI've seen your content, I see
what you produce, because thatMakes that initial call so much
(20:47):
easier than it would be whenthey say who are you?
I don't know who you are.
I'm skeptical of engaging withyou because, again, what I'm
calling you as a passivecandidate, you.
You may be hearing about me forthe first time, so how do you?
React that when you look at up,we all do it right.
I got a strange call look themup.
Does this look credible?
(21:07):
We know who does and doesn'tlook credible.
Quickly through an internetsearch.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
So play that foundation and and, and, pete,
and and and the best way I candescribe it as far as the
authenticity of it.
Just to give a quick example,you know that, that that I'm
really heavily involved in thedisrupt HR events here in
Central Florida and in differentparts of Florida, and when
people I look for speakers andwhen people want to speak, I
(21:32):
they asked me, what should Italk about?
And I'm like I can't tell youthat.
You have to talk aboutsomething you're passionate
about.
And here's what happens whenyou do that If you talk about
something you're passionateabout, you're gonna resonate
with somebody and After yourspeech, somebody is gonna come
up to you and they're gonna havea conversation, because the
first interaction with you wasan emotional one.
You said something that reallyrun a bell in their head,
(21:56):
putting that back to recruiting.
That's what you need to do.
You need to be involved inthese spaces because eventually
you're gonna resonate withsomebody for the right reasons
and then you're gonna make thatConnection right.
You said earlier that if you dopassive recruiting, you have to
be.
You have to understand You'regonna get a lot of rejections
before you get that one yes.
(22:16):
But dang it, that one yes isgoing to be one that's gonna
last with you for a long time,because all the vetting was
already done, and in a muchtimely fashion.
You don't have to do it in likea day.
You've been doing it for weeksand you've vetted out all those
people who would not make itinto your organization.
So yeah, I'm with this ahundred percent.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
So there's multiple outlets to do it Right.
Maybe you do it in person withgroup and association meetings,
like you do with disrupt HR, andthat's how you build your brand
and reputation and expand yournetwork.
There's online communities.
There's social media posts, soit's not a one-size-fits-all.
Yeah you have to figure out whata couple things, what's
(22:56):
practical for you to do, what'syour comfortable doing.
We're talking right now on apodcast.
We're sharing our audio on Forto be downloaded and listen to.
We're making video clips.
Not everyone wants to do that,that's okay.
Not everyone needs to Find youroutlet.
That is Combines two thingsyour comfort level.
(23:18):
Men I'll caveat that say maybeneed to get out of your comfort
zone a little bit.
To start, Because, I'm not,everyone naturally wants to put
themselves out there, but alsowhere the people are who you're
trying to connect with.
That that's what matters themost.
It's not about what you want todo, it's about where they are
and how to find them.
Ricky, I want fish to bite, butI have to give them what they
(23:40):
want right.
Not just because I decide I'mcatching fish today.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
That's right.
You know, if you put a taco inthat real chances are.
You know you're not gonna catchit.
It's probably a joke you mightcatch me talk yeah you're gonna
catch someone so.
For everybody listening outthere.
You know, my weakness is tacosnow you mentioned.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
You mentioned something else that I want to
latch on to you.
You it was a mistake, but it'srelevant.
You said you hand them yourbusiness card.
Well, and and there's anopportunity to reward people in
different ways.
Get your employees to out thereby Be having them hand out
business cards where they go,and the best way to do that is
(24:21):
through an employee referralprogram that you'll compensate
your employees for.
You have potential to have aarmy of recruiters out
everywhere in the world atRestaurants where they go on
weekends, parties, familygatherings, and you want people
looking for those greatcandidates who would be a
potential Good fit for yourcompany.
(24:42):
So reward your employees fordoing that and arm them with the
tools that they know how toidentify candidates or what
you're looking for, and thenwhat to do about it.
That's equally important.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Let me tell you how, how awesome that works.
Right it, because you know it's, it's, it's.
I'm doing my own thing.
Now I've got clients from an HRperspective and what I put out
there a couple of years ago Itold people.
Only then it as a matter offact, with all of my contacts
hey, I'm looking for clients.
If you bring some time, here'swhat I'm looking for.
He, here's what I can help with.
If you're able to bringsomebody to me that I ink a
(25:17):
contract with, I'm gonna giveyou 5% of that.
Sure, why?
Speaker 1 (25:20):
not I'm not right.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
My last three clients were just like that.
Just like that.
Somebody who, who, who brought,who made the introduction, we
ink paper and next thing youknow, they get a 5% in
perpetuity.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
So it works well.
Yeah, you're leveraging yournetwork in a creative way and if
the the more eyes and ears youhave working on your behalf in
this Recruiting effort, thebetter, whether it's it's
business development, likeyou're doing, or recruiting
candidates Because, again, thesecandidates are hidden all over
the place.
They're not waving their handssaying, hey, come recruit me.
(25:57):
You have to go find them, andso the more again I don't know a
better way to put it eyes andears you have looking for them,
the better off you're going tobe.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
That's right and and Pete, and the best way you can
do that.
Yes, it is linked in, butthere's other platforms out
there too.
Right, there's YouTube, there'sTwitter, there's Facebook.
You have to use your socialmedia from a recruits
perspective to tell your companystory.
Folks do not underestimate thepower of storytelling.
People resonate with that.
(26:26):
Right, as if you have aCandidate that's not looking or
somebody who's not looking, youreally want to get their
attention right.
Tell them the company storyright, see how authentic it is.
Right, you're not gonnaresonate with any, with everyone
, but you're gonna resonate withthe right people.
Right, if you're able to pullsomebody away from the current
(26:47):
job just based on your companystory and the core values,
you're gonna have somebody who'sgonna stick around versus
somebody who's looking for a joband they're willing to kind of,
I guess, mend or bend their,their I don't want to see morals
right, but what they're lookingfor just because they need a
job.
Right then, and there I thinkthe passive recruiting route,
(27:08):
although takes longer, is moretime-consuming and you get more
Projections.
The opposite side of that isyou get somebody who's gonna
stick around for a long time andthey're there for the right
reason there's a there's aconcern rightfully so with
hiring managers.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
When someone is Desperate and maybe that's a
strong word but someone is onthe market, on the clock to find
a job, they're very, very eagerand they are, let's say,
overqualified on paper for theposition that they're Applying
to.
Maybe they've madesignificantly more money in
(27:44):
previous roles but they'rewilling to take a pay cut.
Maybe their span of control orresponsibilities or job titles
were significantly Bigger thanthe role that they're applying
for.
Managers will be skeptical ofthat, they just will.
And in its trust me is Fewwords.
Worse, as a third-partyrecruiter that I hear.
Then the candidatesoverqualified, because by
(28:07):
response to all that initiallyis what?
What do you mean?
They're too good for the job?
But?
But we know that it meanssomething different, means that
the person who's doing thehiring is Skeptical of the
candidates willingness to stayfor the long term.
That's really what it comesdown to.
So again, a passive kid kind oftakes that consideration off
(28:29):
the table where you're goingafter them and Can I don't want
to say convinced, because Idon't say then get anyone should
try to talk anyone to taking ajob ever.
I don't think that's that'sdoing it the right way, but
present an opportunity that theyDidn't know they were
interested in.
Right, and they see it and say,wow, that's reason for me to
(28:49):
leave Again.
I'm going to run to something,not away from something.
Big difference, big difference.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Isn't that a definition of convincing them?
Speaker 1 (29:00):
No, convincing, I think, has more and, I guess,
persuading.
I don't want to persuade you, Idon't want to talk you into
something.
I want to lay the facts out andmake sure that it's a good
batch and if I'm doing it rightas a recruiter, I first, by
contact you, ricky, I will saywhat is interesting.
Now it's a little different.
You're a passive candidate, soI have to lay out the
(29:23):
opportunity for you, for sure,but if, but, I want to me.
I don't want to Exaggerate it,I don't want to only highlight
the the good parts as arecruiter.
And so, trust me, if a goodrecruiter can do all of those
things to convince someone.
But I don't want to convince, Iwant you to convince, be
(29:44):
convinced on your own, based onyour understanding.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
That's a good situation.
That's a good point, becausesomething you said in in in my
years in Knowing you that Ireally that resonate with me, is
that you don't.
You don't, even for somebodywho's now past, who's actively
looking, right, even withsomebody who's actively looking
you, I don't want to see you tryto talk them.
Well, yeah, you do try to talkabout it, absolutely right.
(30:08):
You try to talk them out of it.
Do you use you didn't use thatscene rationing off for somebody
who's past it, right?
I mean, you don't talk them outof it.
There's nothing to talk aboutup.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Well, you want to lay out the the reality.
That's what it is to me.
I want to because, as arecruiter, I'm not incited to
Get you to be interested in thejob.
Take an interview, even acceptthe job.
I want it to end well.
I want you to be happy in thatjob and I want the my client to
(30:39):
be happy with you, and the onlyway to do that, in my opinion,
is to get all the bad stuff onthe table.
Just like any relationship, ifyou're going to someone's going
to get married, they, theyshould.
They should see the worst ofthe person they're going to
marry, right, Let me tell youabout Spain.
I Is an old joke when I was inthe Marine Corps, so so that's
(31:04):
maybe price up and for off thecamera, but but I do.
I want to see you.
What was that meme that wasgoing around a year or two ago?
If you, if you, if you, if youlove me at my worst, or if you
don't love me at my worst, youdon't, you don't deserve me at
my best and.
I'm so always put that badstuff on the table but Don't
convince.
I don't think that's how it?
(31:25):
would go.
So just a couple other morethings before we wrap up.
This is time intensive andresource intensive.
We alluded to that earlier.
You might need, if you're acorporate Hiring manager or
talent acquisition team, youmight need to engage a
third-party recruiter for this,because here's the difference.
There's a number of differences, but this is a big one
(31:49):
Third-party staffing companiesand recruiting firms.
All they do is recruit, that'sit.
It is Blinders on.
I'm on a mission to find thecandidate, so I have lots of
time to dedicate to that effort.
When I'm in corporate, I havelots of other responsibilities.
I have to be that goodcorporate citizen.
(32:10):
I have meetings to go to.
I have other things that I getpulled into.
I'm typically part of an HRdepartment, and all those
Considerations that go alongwith being an HR take time away
from straight recruiting.
The other thing that I'venoticed others exceptions to
every rule, ricky, but I thinkyou'd agree most TA folks end up
(32:32):
having a whole lot of positionsare recruiting for, relative to
a third-party recruiter who'susually more laser focused on a
limited number of positions.
So I I think that ability topassively recruit for most
corporate recruiters just isn'tpractical.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
It's not, it's not, and my thing with that is it's
you again.
You have to find the rightstrategy for what your goal is
right, and obviously thestrategy for active recruiting
is not necessarily going to workwith your strategy for passive
recruiting.
But, Pete, one thing that Ireally wanna focus on, that I
love about a passive recruitingis you have to engage in the
(33:16):
people you've worked with beforeand nothing happened with it,
right?
If so, let's say we're inJanuary, January 2023, right,
and I was talking to two orthree candidates that's a
recruiter talking to two orthree candidates trying to play
some of the job, and that didn'twork, right?
So now, 10 months lateractually 11 months later,
because right now we're inNovember right, and now we have
this, another open position.
(33:37):
Who says you cannot go back andcontact those previous
candidates?
You have an establishedconnection, you know who they
are, they know who you are.
The trust doesn't have to bereestablished, especially if you
, as a recruiter, have beenconstantly posting stuff out on
LinkedIn, where you see them or,excuse me, they see you on a
regular basis.
(33:57):
It'll be a no-brainer for themto reach out hey, Ricky, how's
it going?
Yeah, I'm doing great at thisjob.
And that's when you just startyour charm.
You start your pulling back inthat reel and see if anything
bites.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
I was wondering what you were doing there.
Let's start your straight inyour tie for a second there.
Ricky, I was trying to.
I lived in Florida.
I've been fishing twice and I'mfrom Puerto Rico.
I'm glad you brought that up,because I know that you're such
a big believer in building apipeline that it would be remiss
to not mention that, and so I'mglad you did and that if you go
(34:33):
through a recruiting effort forone opening, there's probably a
lot of qualified candidates,attractive candidates that
didn't get the job, so of courseyou wanna go back to them.
That's a great I mean such animportant and powerful step in
the recruiting process.
It's probably overlooked a lot.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
It is.
It is because I look atrecruiters and this is gonna
come off wrong.
So hear me out, hear me out.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Oh, so you're gonna offend me Am.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
I prepared to be offended.
So I look at recruiters likecar dealers, like a car dealer.
I will not buy a car from a cardealer that I don't trust.
I will not buy a car from theperson that I don't trust, Even
if this is gonna cost me 5,000more than another dealership.
I have to trust that person.
(35:22):
So me, as a candidate, I have totrust that recruiter,
especially if I'm working rightnow and you're showing me all
these other opportunitiessomewhere else.
If I'm gonna take thoseopportunities seriously, I have
to trust you for me to give youmy time.
So what does that mean for arecruiter?
You have to invest a time everyweek consistently to build that
(35:46):
trust, to build your brand,Auto-linked in social media.
That way, when you starttapping and shoulders, start
having those conversations, theykind of know who you are right
and they're just trying tofigure out who you are.
And the more easier it is forthem to get into your trusting
grace is the easier it's goingto be to place that person in
case they don't have thehappiness where they currently
(36:10):
are.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
So not all, I'm sorry , go ahead.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
No, please.
Well, I was gonna say so.
If you do that as a recruiter,it does two things right
Passively it fills the positionyou're currently looking for
right now, but also even thepeople who don't work out.
Then you keep in contact withthem because you never know if
you're going to meet that skillset next year.
So just because the position isfilled, it doesn't mean you
(36:33):
should stop passively recruiting.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Well, that's the only thing to continue.
And you make a great point thatnot all recruiters people have
or sometimes skeptical ofworking with a recruiter they
don't trust.
They're just like when they'rebuying a car.
They have a lot of peopleskeptical of a car sales person
and they probably have goodreason to be based on previous
(36:58):
experiences.
But in many cases it's justthat perception that has to be
overcome and that's incumbentupon the recruiter.
You have to give that candidatea reason to trust.
You Don't assume that you'regoing to be granted that trust
going in.
You have to earn it, but youdon't have to earn it, and this
is the point that I think we'vemade.
(37:20):
It hopefully is resonated.
You can lay the foundation forbuilding that trust prior to
engaging with anyoneindividually.
So be consistent.
Earn a reputation over time andit'll be built over days, weeks
, months, years.
Put your content out thereonline and have a brand that is
(37:43):
established, for that issynonymous with trust and that
will make a huge difference inthe recruiting process.
So great point to bring up andI think that's probably a great
way to wrap it up.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
I think so yeah, I think we've.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
I'm not gonna say, have we done it.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Am I gonna say it.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Have we beaten the horse, Ricky?
Ah I think we have, we have todo it, okay.
Well, this has been fun, asalways.
Thank you so much.
A fun Monday, wait, wait.
A start.
Great talking to you as always,ricky, and thank you for
listening.
We will be back very soon.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Henry's hungry.
Have a good one.
All right, bye shi.
You're listening to the Higher Calling podcast.
I'm Pete Newsom and this isyour source for all things
hiring, staffing and recruitingand I'm joined by Ricky Baez
again today.
Ricky, how are you?
I am doing great, Pete Doingawesome.
It's Monday morning, it's abeautiful day and it's almost
Halloween.
What could be better?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Well, I mean Thanksgiving, christmas.
That's a lot more time.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
A weekend, maybe A weekend I mean what?
Could be better than Mondaymorning.
How often do people say that?
Not very, I guess.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I mean not sarcastically, at least.
I mean people say it's Monday,but I'm actually enjoying this
Monday morning.
It's, I am.
And what better time to talkabout recruiting not just
recruiting Pete, but recruitingpassively, something that you
and I are both passionate about.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I certainly can't think of a better time.
So why don't we get right intoit then?
And let's do it?
Let's talk about passiverecruiting techniques.
That is a very differentapproach to recruiting, to
filling a job, than recruitingactive candidates.
So let's just quickly definewhat is a passive candidate.
Who is a passive candidate?
And my way of looking at it,ricky, is someone who doesn't
(01:14):
know.
They're on the job market,right, they don't think they're
a candidate, but I would tellyou and I have mentioned this to
you before, I'm sure I've beensaying this for years as an
analogy that everyone's on thejob market.
Always, there is a job that youwill leave your current position
for.
Now I even am the owner of mybusiness and the president of
(01:36):
the company.
However and I'm going to changethis I used to say if Bill
Belichick calls me and offers meTom Brady's job, but that's,
he's not there anymore.
So I'm going to go withsomething a little more current.
If Steve Kerr calls and asks meto come play for the Golden
State Warriors, I'm in $25million a year to play
basketball for a living.
(01:56):
I'm in.
So I love recruiting, I lovestaffing, but even me, there's a
job that I will leave for.
So, steve, if you're listening,I'm that passive candidate.
I don't think the call's comingthough, ricky.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Bill.
Well, you know what these daysBill Belichick might call you
because he's having a hard time.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Maybe Bill Right Maybe.
But a passive candidate is verydifferent than an active job
seeker.
They're someone who iscontending the role, thriving in
the role, probably, and theyreally don't have their eye on
the outside market.
They're not sendingapplications, their resumes
probably not posted.
So these are hidden gems in thejob market.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Well, they are, because you know it's, if
somebody is actively looking fora job, these are this is
somebody who obviously needs ajob.
But you know, you find somereally good information out of
people who are not looking for ajob, right, and if you're able
to really tap into their worldand understand what makes them
tick right and figure out howyou can bring them over to your
(03:03):
set of the house, you get in myopinion, you would get a much
better candidate, as if you'relooking for somebody.
I don't want to say that I'mdesperate, but they kind of have
no other choice, right, so theykind of I mean, I don't know,
pete, you tell me, right, ifsomebody is recruiting, what are
the I mean it's activelylooking for a job what are the
(03:25):
chances of them giving you astory that may not be true?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Well, there's a question that has to be asked
and answered.
That's what we know.
If you're unemployed, therecould be great reasons for it,
many, many great reasons,especially now we know there's
been so many layoffs of bigcompanies.
Great talent who's notavailable right now but as an
interviewer, as a hiring manager, as a talent acquisition
(03:49):
professional or even athird-party staffing recruiter
like us.
We have to ask the questionwhere, with a passive candidate,
those things aren't really onthe table, I don't have to worry
about why you're not working,because you are working.
So that is a factor for sure,and it's, but it's not perfect.
(04:11):
There's no perfect inrecruiting.
It's just not that simple.
We know that.
So let's talk about, let'sstart with the positives the
reasons why you would want torecruit passive candidates.
You just mentioned a big one,so let's start with there.
You know that these people are.
You don't come with baggage.
Maybe that's the easiest way tolook at it.
Just takes that little bit offthe table.
(04:32):
I'll give you another one.
It gives you access to a muchwider candidate pool because the
world is your candidate pool.
At that point, You're notlimited to people who are
applying to jobs and postingtheir resume.
You can go after anyone andeveryone.
So much broader candidate poolwhen you're recruiting passive
candidates.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I could not agree more, because if normal
recruiting a day in a normalrecruiters life would be going
on to some kind of a job boardthat they posted a position and
then they aggregate all theresumes from people who applied,
If you're passively recruiting,you don't go through that.
You have to find it.
So what I imagine this to be isyou, as a recruiter, you are
(05:16):
looking for a specific candidate.
So your job in passiverecruiting is to go and find
these qualities that you'relooking for in somebody who's
already working, and then youengage in conversation and then
in that conversation engagement,you figure out oh, they're not
happy with this.
This is something we can offer,and you have a much better
(05:37):
conversation.
So that's the part that I like,because you have way more
resumes or way more talents tolook at in comparison to what
you get from, I don't know,LinkedIn or Indy.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Well, it's a targeted approach versus dropping your
fishing line in the deep oceanand just waiting for something
to hit.
You're going after that targetand maybe if you're spearfishing
which I've never done, but Iimagine you go after what you
see.
And so when you're passivelyrecruiting, you are targeting
(06:14):
those kids who have those skillsets, who work at the companies
that you know are a potentialgood fit the industry.
So it's a much more directedsearch effort.
And one of the things as athird party recruiter that I
find inherently valuable when itcomes to passive candidates is
I don't have to worry about asmuch competition with them, and
(06:36):
for me that means that theyhaven't sent their resume all
over town.
And then if you're an activejob seeker rightfully so you are
trying to get in front of asmany opportunities as you can
very common, and I wouldn'tdiscourage that.
But that makes it difficultwhen you're recruiting to keep.
It's an extra level or layer ofthings to consider.
(07:00):
Okay, ricky, if you're mycandidate and I know you're
working with everyone in town inyour resumes, 100 different
places, as a third partyrecruiter I have to wonder is
you've already sent your resumeover to my client?
That's number one with oneclick recruiting.
You may not even remember thatyou did it.
So that's a potential problem.
And then, believe me, we've runinto that every staffing
company on the planet runs intothat eventually that the dreaded
(07:22):
double submittal.
Are you working with otherrecruiters who may not tell you
where your resume is going?
That's a complete nightmarewhen that happens.
So all of these things addcomplexity to an already complex
situation, and that is findingthe right candidate for the
right position and making thatmatch.
So when you're recruitingpassive camps, I don't have to
(07:43):
worry about that.
I know that you're working withme and not everyone else in
town.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
And that makes sense.
Because actually how I see it,Pete, to be honest, is if
somebody's actively looking fora job, you're right.
They have their resumes inseveral different spots, right.
So you're competing withseveral different other people,
other entities, whereas passiverecruiting you're competing with
one where they currently are.
That's the only competition youhave.
That's right.
(08:11):
And if you're able to show howyou can make their career or
their job just that much better,you're ahead of the game, right
.
Especially if they're notlooking Correct, Because if
you're able to convince themwith that one thing, I'm willing
to guess that they are more aptto see the whole application
and interview process through ifthey were courted right, versus
(08:34):
the other way around, wherethey have options.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Well, maybe right, but you're going to get turned
down a lot when you recruitpassive candidates because,
Correct, yeah, you have to offerthem something incrementally
better than what they alreadyhave, Not slightly better.
It needs to be a big step up.
A new title, increasedcompensation, better hours,
(08:56):
better future.
Now I could list a lot ofdifferent things there, because,
ultimately, I don't know what'simportant to you as a candidate
.
I don't know what yourpriorities are.
Maybe it's simply compensationand you say Pete, if you could
give me a 15% increase in income, I'll jump ship, but for some
(09:18):
people, that's not even near thetop of their priority list.
Maybe it's wanting a betterwork environment.
Or, of course, in the days thatwe're in right now, times that
we're in working from homeversus being in the office.
So that's a reason why someonemay stop and consider one way or
the other.
By the way, there's a lot offolks working at home.
(09:38):
I mean, this is maybe not themost popular statement or
expected statement, but there'sa lot of folks who've been sent
home and wish they could stillgo to the office every day.
So there's a lot of opportunityright now for candidates to be
recruited for an improvedsituation, whatever that means
to them.
And we don't know that withpassive candidates right when we
(09:59):
see a job application comethrough, we know they're
interested in the job as we'veposted it, but when we're
recruiting active candidates wedon't know.
So there is going to be a highrejection rate for people saying
nope nope nope, nope, notinterested.
But that's okay, it's part ofthe deal, adds time.
It's time consuming, ricky, todo it this way.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
It is, but you know what.
You have to be smart with yourtime as a recruiter, right?
So it's one of the things I wasjust thinking about, pete, is
that you know, if I'm arecruiter and I'm always on
LinkedIn, I'm always got myfinger on the pulse of what's
happening out there in theworkforce.
Today, one of the best thingsyou can do is pay attention to
the media and pay attention towhat companies are bringing
people back into the office andthese employees are not having
(10:43):
it Ding, ding, ding.
Go ahead and find out who theyare on LinkedIn.
If you are offering a flexiblework arrangement, give them a
call and say hey, I saw thisarticle.
I see you work with thisorganization.
We don't do that here.
We don't bring you back intothe office, right.
So you have to keep your ear tothe ground and have I mean I
hate to say it this way, pete,but I'm going to say it just how
(11:05):
you said about spearfishing yougot to get the right bait, you
got to get the right bait andyou have to have me one step
ahead of everybody else.
So, yeah, I'm with you 100%.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Well, and anyone who's who fishes knows.
Now I say this all we're goingdown this path.
This is, this is goingapparently going to be fishing
analogy day.
And I'm not.
I'm someone who's I'm a verypassive fisherman.
How's that Now?
But I know enough to to knowthat if I bring the wrong bait,
it doesn't matter how great thebait is for the wrong kind of
(11:35):
fish, it's not going to work in.
Or if I'm fishing in the wrongpond, so to speak, it's not
going to work.
And so you just have to know,as best you can, what, what is
going to be appealing, what isgoing to be attractive to that
candidate.
But it is resource and timeintensive.
That's real, the real drawbackto passive recruiting.
(11:57):
It's great when the rightresumes just show up on your
desk, and when you're recruitingpassive candidates, it's a
grind.
It's a commitment to a muchdeeper effort.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
It is because what you're doing because it's again
the opposite is you gotcandidates who are looking for a
job.
That's not who you're targetingas a recruiter.
You're targeting people who arenot looking for a job, so you
have that's like trying to sellsomebody a house who already
have multiple houses.
You have to let them know whatyou know, what's so special
about this house.
That's right.
You've got to have someconvincing involved to to let
(12:30):
them know.
So it is a different skill setright From a recruiter's
perspective.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
It's a different skill set, but I think every
recruiter has potential to do it.
I suspect most recruiters notall recruiters have done it.
I won't say most, not allrecruiters have done it because
it's harder.
I mean, there's so many toolsout there now that make passive
recruiting passive candidatesseemingly not as necessary, and
(12:58):
a lot of it will depend on thesearch.
If there's a, if there's a bigcandidate pool for the job
you're recruiting for, you don'tnecessarily have to do it.
If, as as you go higher up thechain of of both specialty and
and it going up throughmanagement and executive ranks,
where there's fewer qualityqualified candidates, that's
(13:20):
where it becomes more prevalentand necessary.
So, depending on the type ofpositions you recruit for, you
could go through your entirerecruiting career potentially
not recruit passive candidatesIf you're doing high volume, big
candidate pool positions.
But as you get into more nicheroles with specialized skill
sets and experience that has tocome to come along with the
candidate, it becomes more of anecessity.
(13:41):
So let's talk about some of thetechniques you can use, and we
have to start with the LinkedIn.
Today it is the place wherepeople live.
I like to think of LinkedIn asa site where people can put
their resume without having todefend posting their resume
publicly because it's not reallyseen as a resume.
(14:03):
But boy, it sure does look likea resume, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (14:07):
I like that.
Yeah, you know what it is.
It's especially on LinkedIn and, and you know what and I'm just
going to throw this out herePeople are going to hate this,
but you know I, I I get hit onLinkedIn quite a bit and you
know what?
I'm really popular.
Want to know how.
I know I'm popular, pete,because a lot of the LinkedIn
messages that I get are peopletelling me that somehow the
algorithm has connected us andit was divine intervention.
(14:28):
It's fate.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
It's just you're meant to.
You're meant to be connected.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I'm meant to be connected to the 500 people who
tell me that every week?
No, but you're right.
You know LinkedIn is the placefor you to it's it's.
It's like a supermarket for aproduct, product of process,
right, it's like a supermarket.
You're going in that down eachout.
You go down the it I'll lookthere's an IT person.
You think you go down the HRaisle, all these different
(14:53):
aisles, right, and you have yourpicking.
Some things are in clearance,right, and some things are out
of your price range, right.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
So you have to decide what you're looking for Okay,
there's a blog article there foryou to write.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
You need to make that I think you need to make.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Let that analogy run, run all the way through.
I'll do a fishing one and youdo a.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Clearance.
Let's see well up.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
But with with with LinkedIn, it's so different than
it did it was in the not toodistant past.
I remember when Monster was the800 pound gorilla in the space
and career builder wascandidates.
There was a feature wherecandidates could would post
their resume Privately becausethey didn't want their employer
to know they were looking for ajob.
(15:35):
Well, now I would tell youagain, because I'm a big fan of
passive recruiting I do believewhat I said earlier, that
everyone's a candidate, whetherthey realize it or not, for the
right job, that you don't haveto do that anymore.
You know more hiding.
So everyone's out there, andLinkedIn is up to about 950
million users, and Study I sawnot too long ago, or reports,
(15:59):
said that they were, at anygiven time, 60 Plus million
active job seekers.
Well, that leaves almost 900million other candidates to
recruit from.
So if you limit your searchonly to the active candidates,
you're missing the majority ofPossible candidates out there
for you.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Actually, pete, I think the opposite is true as
well, because I think it's whatwhat you said resonated with me.
You said that you know, back inthe day, right, people used to
put I think it was a monsterused to put their resumes.
Probably because they did, theydidn't want their superiors to
see it.
Now it's such an it's, it'ssuch an expected thing to do
that I sometimes questionsomebody who's been in the field
(16:39):
for 20 years and you don't havea LinkedIn profile.
That's the odd thing.
Now, right to me, it meansSpecifically, if you don't have
a LinkedIn profile, especiallyduring HR, I have huge questions
To what have you been doing inthe past 20 years?
So, for everybody out there,listening, please, you got to
have a LinkedIn profile, thatit's updated and it shows who
(17:02):
you are as a profession.
It it should personalize yourprofessional skill set.
That's what it should do.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Well, it should.
And as a job, as a professional, it's in your interest to have
recruiters contact you for, yeah, for these type types of
searches.
You'd never know what couldshow up on your doorstep and be
that great opportunity.
So, even if you consideryourself a passive candidate, or
If you consider yourselfsomeone who's not on the job
(17:30):
market, you wouldn't consideryourself a passive candidate.
The recruiter would.
But you should have yourLinkedIn profile updated and I
believe Colleges now and I don'tthink it's at the high school
level yet We'll have classes onputting up your LinkedIn profile
.
So, right from the start.
It's just it's become part ofthe professional culture for
knowledge workers in particular,not as much for blue collar
(17:51):
workers.
We know that because they'renot in front of the computer all
day.
So if you're in a laborintensive job, linkedin's not as
prevalent, so that is not theonly place to go find passive
Job seekers for sure, or passivecandidates you can join.
Industry associations, tradegroups.
That's a great place to do itand savvy recruiters do that all
(18:12):
the time Because they want tobe where the people are who they
would potentially recruit.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
See, I'm gonna jump on your, on your bandwagon of
fishing analogies, right?
If you're looking for a baths,if you're looking for a fish
that's in a in in a lake offresh water, you're not gonna go
fishing for that in the ocean,right?
So you have to know where youare.
So, if you have an open ITposition, right, it'll be a
great idea to go find wherethese IT talent live and play
(18:44):
which is where and thesenetworking events Right, and you
start handing out your I almostsay your gift card.
That would help you starthanding out your business card
and you start making theseconnections.
But the most important thing youcan do is a recruiter Pete,
especially a link, then, is toconsistently post relevant
topics, produce relevant contentin those business areas and
(19:04):
those business groups.
Especially a link, then, so youcan show what your company is
about, so you can show Otherpeople maybe who didn't know
what your company was about.
The more you show what yourorganization is well, what kind
of core values they have, thatwill attract the right candidate
for you and it'll make iteasier for you for passive
(19:26):
recruiting, right, because maybesomebody is not looking and
they see that that podcast youput or that article you pick and
it resonated with them.
They like, you like.
Oh man, you look them up,you're like this person got the
skills that I need right.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Well, there's a big credibility factor in that.
So we're talking to recruiters,and recruiters are Is a general
statement one of two groupscorporate recruiters, who may or
may not have a big,recognizable brand behind them.
So if you're recruiting fromGoogle, everyone's going to know
who Google is when you makethat call, if that's where
(20:01):
you're recruiting from.
If you're recruiting from Joe'sbait shack, right to use our
fishing analogy you may have towork a little harder to
establish who you are.
But if they look at yourcontent that you've created,
they look at your website, andthey see, wow, even though I
don't know this company or thisbrand, I that I see them as
(20:22):
credible because they've laidthe foundation through the
content they've created.
So I'm a big proponent of that,big fan of what you just
described, and we certainly tryto do that and it works, it's
effective.
It's very rewarding for me whenI hear someone say I've never
worked with your company, butI've seen your content, I see
what you produce, because thatMakes that initial call so much
(20:47):
easier than it would be whenthey say who are you?
I don't know who you are.
I'm skeptical of engaging withyou because, again, what I'm
calling you as a passivecandidate, you.
You may be hearing about me forthe first time, so how do you?
React that when you look at up,we all do it right.
I got a strange call look themup.
Does this look credible?
(21:07):
We know who does and doesn'tlook credible.
Quickly through an internetsearch.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
So play that foundation and and, and, pete,
and and and the best way I candescribe it as far as the
authenticity of it.
Just to give a quick example,you know that, that that I'm
really heavily involved in thedisrupt HR events here in
Central Florida and in differentparts of Florida, and when
people I look for speakers andwhen people want to speak, I
(21:32):
they asked me, what should Italk about?
And I'm like I can't tell youthat.
You have to talk aboutsomething you're passionate
about.
And here's what happens whenyou do that If you talk about
something you're passionateabout, you're gonna resonate
with somebody and After yourspeech, somebody is gonna come
up to you and they're gonna havea conversation, because the
first interaction with you wasan emotional one.
You said something that reallyrun a bell in their head,
(21:56):
putting that back to recruiting.
That's what you need to do.
You need to be involved inthese spaces because eventually
you're gonna resonate withsomebody for the right reasons
and then you're gonna make thatConnection right.
You said earlier that if you dopassive recruiting, you have to
be.
You have to understand You'regonna get a lot of rejections
before you get that one yes.
(22:16):
But dang it, that one yes isgoing to be one that's gonna
last with you for a long time,because all the vetting was
already done, and in a muchtimely fashion.
You don't have to do it in likea day.
You've been doing it for weeksand you've vetted out all those
people who would not make itinto your organization.
So yeah, I'm with this ahundred percent.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
So there's multiple outlets to do it Right.
Maybe you do it in person withgroup and association meetings,
like you do with disrupt HR, andthat's how you build your brand
and reputation and expand yournetwork.
There's online communities.
There's social media posts, soit's not a one-size-fits-all.
Yeah you have to figure out whata couple things, what's
(22:56):
practical for you to do, what'syour comfortable doing.
We're talking right now on apodcast.
We're sharing our audio on Forto be downloaded and listen to.
We're making video clips.
Not everyone wants to do that,that's okay.
Not everyone needs to Find youroutlet.
That is Combines two thingsyour comfort level.
(23:18):
Men I'll caveat that say maybeneed to get out of your comfort
zone a little bit.
To start, Because, I'm not,everyone naturally wants to put
themselves out there, but alsowhere the people are who you're
trying to connect with.
That that's what matters themost.
It's not about what you want todo, it's about where they are
and how to find them.
Ricky, I want fish to bite, butI have to give them what they
(23:40):
want right.
Not just because I decide I'mcatching fish today.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
That's right.
You know, if you put a taco inthat real chances are.
You know you're not gonna catchit.
It's probably a joke you mightcatch me talk yeah you're gonna
catch someone so.
For everybody listening outthere.
You know, my weakness is tacosnow you mentioned.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
You mentioned something else that I want to
latch on to you.
You it was a mistake, but it'srelevant.
You said you hand them yourbusiness card.
Well, and and there's anopportunity to reward people in
different ways.
Get your employees to out thereby Be having them hand out
business cards where they go,and the best way to do that is
(24:21):
through an employee referralprogram that you'll compensate
your employees for.
You have potential to have aarmy of recruiters out
everywhere in the world atRestaurants where they go on
weekends, parties, familygatherings, and you want people
looking for those greatcandidates who would be a
potential Good fit for yourcompany.
(24:42):
So reward your employees fordoing that and arm them with the
tools that they know how toidentify candidates or what
you're looking for, and thenwhat to do about it.
That's equally important.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Let me tell you how, how awesome that works.
Right it, because you know it's, it's, it's.
I'm doing my own thing.
Now I've got clients from an HRperspective and what I put out
there a couple of years ago Itold people.
Only then it as a matter offact, with all of my contacts
hey, I'm looking for clients.
If you bring some time, here'swhat I'm looking for.
He, here's what I can help with.
If you're able to bringsomebody to me that I ink a
(25:17):
contract with, I'm gonna giveyou 5% of that.
Sure, why?
Speaker 1 (25:20):
not I'm not right.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
My last three clients were just like that.
Just like that.
Somebody who, who, who brought,who made the introduction, we
ink paper and next thing youknow, they get a 5% in
perpetuity.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
So it works well.
Yeah, you're leveraging yournetwork in a creative way and if
the the more eyes and ears youhave working on your behalf in
this Recruiting effort, thebetter, whether it's it's
business development, likeyou're doing, or recruiting
candidates Because, again, thesecandidates are hidden all over
the place.
They're not waving their handssaying, hey, come recruit me.
(25:57):
You have to go find them, andso the more again I don't know a
better way to put it eyes andears you have looking for them,
the better off you're going tobe.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
That's right and and Pete, and the best way you can
do that.
Yes, it is linked in, butthere's other platforms out
there too.
Right, there's YouTube, there'sTwitter, there's Facebook.
You have to use your socialmedia from a recruits
perspective to tell your companystory.
Folks do not underestimate thepower of storytelling.
People resonate with that.
(26:26):
Right, as if you have aCandidate that's not looking or
somebody who's not looking, youreally want to get their
attention right.
Tell them the company storyright, see how authentic it is.
Right, you're not gonnaresonate with any, with everyone
, but you're gonna resonate withthe right people.
Right, if you're able to pullsomebody away from the current
(26:47):
job just based on your companystory and the core values,
you're gonna have somebody who'sgonna stick around versus
somebody who's looking for a joband they're willing to kind of,
I guess, mend or bend their,their I don't want to see morals
right, but what they're lookingfor just because they need a
job.
Right then, and there I thinkthe passive recruiting route,
(27:08):
although takes longer, is moretime-consuming and you get more
Projections.
The opposite side of that isyou get somebody who's gonna
stick around for a long time andthey're there for the right
reason there's a there's aconcern rightfully so with
hiring managers.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
When someone is Desperate and maybe that's a
strong word but someone is onthe market, on the clock to find
a job, they're very, very eagerand they are, let's say,
overqualified on paper for theposition that they're Applying
to.
Maybe they've madesignificantly more money in
(27:44):
previous roles but they'rewilling to take a pay cut.
Maybe their span of control orresponsibilities or job titles
were significantly Bigger thanthe role that they're applying
for.
Managers will be skeptical ofthat, they just will.
And in its trust me is Fewwords.
Worse, as a third-partyrecruiter that I hear.
Then the candidatesoverqualified, because by
(28:07):
response to all that initiallyis what?
What do you mean?
They're too good for the job?
But?
But we know that it meanssomething different, means that
the person who's doing thehiring is Skeptical of the
candidates willingness to stayfor the long term.
That's really what it comesdown to.
So again, a passive kid kind oftakes that consideration off
(28:29):
the table where you're goingafter them and Can I don't want
to say convinced, because Idon't say then get anyone should
try to talk anyone to taking ajob ever.
I don't think that's that'sdoing it the right way, but
present an opportunity that theyDidn't know they were
interested in.
Right, and they see it and say,wow, that's reason for me to
(28:49):
leave Again.
I'm going to run to something,not away from something.
Big difference, big difference.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Isn't that a definition of convincing them?
Speaker 1 (29:00):
No, convincing, I think, has more and, I guess,
persuading.
I don't want to persuade you, Idon't want to talk you into
something.
I want to lay the facts out andmake sure that it's a good
batch and if I'm doing it rightas a recruiter, I first, by
contact you, ricky, I will saywhat is interesting.
Now it's a little different.
You're a passive candidate, soI have to lay out the
(29:23):
opportunity for you, for sure,but if, but, I want to me.
I don't want to Exaggerate it,I don't want to only highlight
the the good parts as arecruiter.
And so, trust me, if a goodrecruiter can do all of those
things to convince someone.
But I don't want to convince, Iwant you to convince, be
(29:44):
convinced on your own, based onyour understanding.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
That's a good situation.
That's a good point, becausesomething you said in in in my
years in Knowing you that Ireally that resonate with me, is
that you don't.
You don't, even for somebodywho's now past, who's actively
looking, right, even withsomebody who's actively looking
you, I don't want to see you tryto talk them.
Well, yeah, you do try to talkabout it, absolutely right.
(30:08):
You try to talk them out of it.
Do you use you didn't use thatscene rationing off for somebody
who's past it, right?
I mean, you don't talk them outof it.
There's nothing to talk aboutup.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Well, you want to lay out the the reality.
That's what it is to me.
I want to because, as arecruiter, I'm not incited to
Get you to be interested in thejob.
Take an interview, even acceptthe job.
I want it to end well.
I want you to be happy in thatjob and I want the my client to
(30:39):
be happy with you, and the onlyway to do that, in my opinion,
is to get all the bad stuff onthe table.
Just like any relationship, ifyou're going to someone's going
to get married, they, theyshould.
They should see the worst ofthe person they're going to
marry, right, Let me tell youabout Spain.
I Is an old joke when I was inthe Marine Corps, so so that's
(31:04):
maybe price up and for off thecamera, but but I do.
I want to see you.
What was that meme that wasgoing around a year or two ago?
If you, if you, if you, if youlove me at my worst, or if you
don't love me at my worst, youdon't, you don't deserve me at
my best and.
I'm so always put that badstuff on the table but Don't
convince.
I don't think that's how it?
(31:25):
would go.
So just a couple other morethings before we wrap up.
This is time intensive andresource intensive.
We alluded to that earlier.
You might need, if you're acorporate Hiring manager or
talent acquisition team, youmight need to engage a
third-party recruiter for this,because here's the difference.
There's a number of differences, but this is a big one
(31:49):
Third-party staffing companiesand recruiting firms.
All they do is recruit, that'sit.
It is Blinders on.
I'm on a mission to find thecandidate, so I have lots of
time to dedicate to that effort.
When I'm in corporate, I havelots of other responsibilities.
I have to be that goodcorporate citizen.
(32:10):
I have meetings to go to.
I have other things that I getpulled into.
I'm typically part of an HRdepartment, and all those
Considerations that go alongwith being an HR take time away
from straight recruiting.
The other thing that I'venoticed others exceptions to
every rule, ricky, but I thinkyou'd agree most TA folks end up
(32:32):
having a whole lot of positionsare recruiting for, relative to
a third-party recruiter who'susually more laser focused on a
limited number of positions.
So I I think that ability topassively recruit for most
corporate recruiters just isn'tpractical.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
It's not, it's not, and my thing with that is it's
you again.
You have to find the rightstrategy for what your goal is
right, and obviously thestrategy for active recruiting
is not necessarily going to workwith your strategy for passive
recruiting.
But, Pete, one thing that Ireally wanna focus on, that I
love about a passive recruitingis you have to engage in the
(33:16):
people you've worked with beforeand nothing happened with it,
right?
If so, let's say we're inJanuary, January 2023, right,
and I was talking to two orthree candidates that's a
recruiter talking to two orthree candidates trying to play
some of the job, and that didn'twork, right?
So now, 10 months lateractually 11 months later,
because right now we're inNovember right, and now we have
this, another open position.
(33:37):
Who says you cannot go back andcontact those previous
candidates?
You have an establishedconnection, you know who they
are, they know who you are.
The trust doesn't have to bereestablished, especially if you
, as a recruiter, have beenconstantly posting stuff out on
LinkedIn, where you see them or,excuse me, they see you on a
regular basis.
(33:57):
It'll be a no-brainer for themto reach out hey, Ricky, how's
it going?
Yeah, I'm doing great at thisjob.
And that's when you just startyour charm.
You start your pulling back inthat reel and see if anything
bites.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
I was wondering what you were doing there.
Let's start your straight inyour tie for a second there.
Ricky, I was trying to.
I lived in Florida.
I've been fishing twice and I'mfrom Puerto Rico.
I'm glad you brought that up,because I know that you're such
a big believer in building apipeline that it would be remiss
to not mention that, and so I'mglad you did and that if you go
(34:33):
through a recruiting effort forone opening, there's probably a
lot of qualified candidates,attractive candidates that
didn't get the job, so of courseyou wanna go back to them.
That's a great I mean such animportant and powerful step in
the recruiting process.
It's probably overlooked a lot.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
It is.
It is because I look atrecruiters and this is gonna
come off wrong.
So hear me out, hear me out.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Oh, so you're gonna offend me Am.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
I prepared to be offended.
So I look at recruiters likecar dealers, like a car dealer.
I will not buy a car from a cardealer that I don't trust.
I will not buy a car from theperson that I don't trust, Even
if this is gonna cost me 5,000more than another dealership.
I have to trust that person.
(35:22):
So me, as a candidate, I have totrust that recruiter,
especially if I'm working rightnow and you're showing me all
these other opportunitiessomewhere else.
If I'm gonna take thoseopportunities seriously, I have
to trust you for me to give youmy time.
So what does that mean for arecruiter?
You have to invest a time everyweek consistently to build that
(35:46):
trust, to build your brand,Auto-linked in social media.
That way, when you starttapping and shoulders, start
having those conversations, theykind of know who you are right
and they're just trying tofigure out who you are.
And the more easier it is forthem to get into your trusting
grace is the easier it's goingto be to place that person in
case they don't have thehappiness where they currently
(36:10):
are.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
So not all, I'm sorry , go ahead.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
No, please.
Well, I was gonna say so.
If you do that as a recruiter,it does two things right
Passively it fills the positionyou're currently looking for
right now, but also even thepeople who don't work out.
Then you keep in contact withthem because you never know if
you're going to meet that skillset next year.
So just because the position isfilled, it doesn't mean you
(36:33):
should stop passively recruiting.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Well, that's the only thing to continue.
And you make a great point thatnot all recruiters people have
or sometimes skeptical ofworking with a recruiter they
don't trust.
They're just like when they'rebuying a car.
They have a lot of peopleskeptical of a car sales person
and they probably have goodreason to be based on previous
(36:58):
experiences.
But in many cases it's justthat perception that has to be
overcome and that's incumbentupon the recruiter.
You have to give that candidatea reason to trust.
You Don't assume that you'regoing to be granted that trust
going in.
You have to earn it, but youdon't have to earn it, and this
is the point that I think we'vemade.
(37:20):
It hopefully is resonated.
You can lay the foundation forbuilding that trust prior to
engaging with anyoneindividually.
So be consistent.
Earn a reputation over time andit'll be built over days, weeks
, months, years.
Put your content out thereonline and have a brand that is
(37:43):
established, for that issynonymous with trust and that
will make a huge difference inthe recruiting process.
So great point to bring up andI think that's probably a great
way to wrap it up.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
I think so yeah, I think we've.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
I'm not gonna say, have we done it.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Am I gonna say it.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Have we beaten the horse, Ricky?
Ah I think we have, we have todo it, okay.
Well, this has been fun, asalways.
Thank you so much.
A fun Monday, wait, wait.
A start.
Great talking to you as always,ricky, and thank you for
listening.
We will be back very soon.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Henry's hungry.
Have a good one.
All right, bye shi.
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