October 30, 2023 • 31 mins
Are you afraid of what might happen when key leaders leave your organization? Worried about the impact of favoritism on succession planning? Stay tuned as in this episode of the Hire Calling podcast, your hosts, Pete Newsome and Ricky Baez, dive into the critical topic of succession planning in the world of hiring, staffing, and recruiting. With a particular focus on eight essential steps, Ricky, an HR consultant and college instructor, shares his expertise. He highlights why succession planning is often neglected and discusses how organizations frequently struggle to implement it effectively. The conversation sheds light on the common practice of favoritism in leadership selection and the importance of considering skillsets and input from various stakeholders in the succession planning process.
8 Steps for Effective Succession Planning
- Start Early, Keep It Ongoing: Begin succession planning early, and make it a continuous effort. Share employee knowledge to avoid last-minute scrambles.
- Reflect Company Culture: Ensure your future leaders embody your company's values. Plan for talent development and promotions accordingly.
- Predict Vacancies: Identify and prioritize roles likely to be vacated, such as retirements, and plan ahead for replacements.
- Prepare for Surprises: Even unexpected departures become manageable with succession planning. Identify potential successors and be ready.
- Test Your Strategy: Evaluate potential successors by giving them leadership opportunities during absences.
- Integrate Succession and Hiring: Connect succession planning with your recruitment strategy. Account for vacancies created by internal promotions.
- Seek Employee Input: Engage employees in conversations about their career goals, including lateral organizational moves.
- Enlist Expert Help: Consider professional staffing experts to guide your succession planning journey.
Mistakes to Avoid
- Prioritize Succession Planning: Regularly review your strategy and talent pool.
- Involve the Full Team: Engage the leadership team for transparency and culture fit.
- Widen Your Talent Pool: Develop a broader group of high-potential team members.
- Diverse Development Methods: Use various methods to cater to different learning styles.
- Transparency is Key: Be open about your organization's commitment to succession planning to build trust.
Additional Resources:
- 8 Steps to Strategic Succession Planning
- Strategic Workforce Planning: What it is & Key Steps
- The Future of Recruiting: Predictions for the Next Decade
🧠WANT TO LEARN MORE? Be sure to subscribe and check out 4 Corner Resources at https://www.4cornerresources.com/
👋 FOLLOW PETE NEWSOME ONLINE: Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petenewsome/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/petenewsome?lang=en Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@PeteNewsome Blog Articles: https://www.4cornerresources.com/blog/
👋 FOLLOW RICKY BAEZ ONLINE: Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/efrainrickybaez/ Blog Articles: https://www.baezco.com/baezco-blog
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Pete Newsome (00:00):
I'm going to do it too.
Okay, there we go.
You're listening to the HireCalling podcast.
I'm Pete Newsome and this isyour source for all things
hiring, staffing and recruiting.
I'm joined once again by RickyBaez.
Ricky, how are you on thisFriday morning?
Ricky Baez (00:15):
I am doing great.
Friday is here.
Weekend is here.
Weather's great for grilling.
College football is the besttime of the year, Pete.
Pete Newsome (00:23):
And Halloween season, which we both love.
So that's right, this is good.
Ricky Baez (00:28):
I actually went to Halloween Horror Nights on
Sunday.
It was insane.
It was insane, but well worthit.
Pete Newsome (00:34):
So we're going to talk about something today
that's hopefully a little lessscary but only if you plan for
it and that is successionplanning how to do it right, and
there's eight steps that we'lltalk through Now.
This is of particular interestto you right now because you're
teaching a class at RollinsCollege about succession
(00:54):
planning.
Ricky Baez (00:56):
That's correct.
Right now, I've got about 21students that are in their
master's program and we aretalking about what succession
planning is and how they can useit at work or as a consultant,
because this is something I mean.
I know you said it's not scary,but let me tell you it's.
With the amount oforganizations that don't use
this, it is actually prettyscary for an HR consultant.
(01:17):
So, yeah, we need to take adeep dive.
Pete Newsome (01:20):
Why do you think I have a theory, but I want to
hear from you?
Why do you think most companiesstruggle with this?
Ricky Baez (01:27):
Because most companies have their favorite
leaders and they have theirfavorite leaders because of
their interactions with them andthey don't take into account
some of the skill sets thatthey're going to need to
actually be successful, right?
So a lot of organizations, alot of these senior executive
leaders, they have theirfavorites and they're kind of
afraid that their favorites maynot be looked at the same from
(01:48):
everybody else because it's withsuccession planning.
Everybody has an input on aspecific leader to be.
So I guess some organizationssay and I've actually heard this
we don't have time forsuccession planning.
Pete Newsome (02:02):
Now, that makes sense.
That makes sense to me.
It's one of those things youdon't have time for it until you
need it and you realize youshould have made time.
Probably right, but that's likea lot of things in life and
business.
Ricky Baez (02:13):
It is.
It's just one of those thingsthat the value isn't necessarily
present without it being needed.
It's needed is when the valueis felt.
Pete Newsome (02:25):
And then it's too late.
Ricky Baez (02:26):
Yeah, then it's too late.
Pete Newsome (02:28):
Let's back up before we go forward, if you
wouldn't mind.
What is succession planning?
Describe it briefly, if youcould.
Ricky Baez (02:36):
Succession planning is a strategy that you put in
place that helps theorganization put the right
leaders in place in casesomebody retires, somebody
leaves unexpectedly or they areforced out unexpectedly.
It's the more time that goes bywithout a strategic leader in
place, the more money you'relosing and the less influence
(02:58):
you have for you employees whodo have that direct connect with
your customers.
Pete Newsome (03:02):
That makes sense, and so you also answered the
question there of why it'simportant.
Ricky Baez (03:06):
For those very reasons, Absolutely, Because you
want to know.
I mean, it's always good toknow that your favorite leader
is always going to be there.
But what if they hit the lotto?
What if, unfortunately, theypass away?
What if they do somethingthey're not supposed to get?
Let go?
The business cannot stop.
It still needs to propelforward and you have to be ready
for that.
Pete Newsome (03:26):
Absolutely Well.
We know that change isinevitable.
We know that surprises come upconstantly, so to prepare for
those it just makes sense onpaper.
I think it's probably easiersaid than done.
I think you have to applyforesight that most companies I
think the bigger you are, themore resources you have for that
(03:46):
sort of effort.
I think for small businessesit's probably harder than for
large.
Would you agree with that?
Ricky Baez (03:52):
It's actually easier for small businesses.
It's easier because you don'thave the many leaders to choose
from.
Good point Versus largeorganizations.
You have a huge pool and itdoes take more time.
It does take more effort and itcosts more money the bigger you
are, but the more important itis.
Pete Newsome (04:10):
I understood.
Well, all right, let's get intoit.
Let's start with the first step.
I think I'll let you lead this.
But what is the first step?
I know we have a blog that wewrote on four-corner resources
about this that I asked you tochallenge to see, since you are
knee-deep into this right now tosee if you agree.
(04:32):
So I'll let you pick it apartto hear your thoughts.
So step one when do we begin?
Ricky Baez (04:40):
Step one.
So there are eight steps.
So in this blog there are eightsteps for effective succession
planning process.
The first step is start earlyand make it an ongoing team
effort.
I could not agree with thismore.
This cannot be one of thoseones Well, I mean, it is a
once-in-a-year thing but itcannot be one of those things
that you only address when it'sneeded.
(05:00):
It has to be a weekly thing, ithas to be a monthly thing, it
has to be a quarterly thing.
The more you do it, the moreconsistent you are, the more
comfortable you're.
Executive leadership is goingto be in that process and the
key word here is process.
We have to put this as part ofthe process.
We have to do this as much asthe one-on-ones.
We have to do this as much asthe quarterly reviews or annual
(05:23):
reviews or bi-annual reviews.
So the earlier you start andthe more often you do it, the
easier it's going to get.
So, start early, make it anongoing thing with your team,
but the key is going to beconsistency.
You've got to be consistentwith it, whether you're in
research and development orfinance.
Pete Newsome (05:43):
Makes so much sense.
Now you said it's the kind ofthing you touch regularly.
Weekly.
Does it have to be thatfrequently, can you?
Is quarterly enough.
Ricky Baez (05:55):
Quarterly is enough.
I mean, I say weekly becausesome organizations they do have
weekly meetings with theirpeople right With their teams
one-on-one.
So if you're in a higher typeof leadership position where you
do have one-on-one with a teamleader, then every conversation
has to have an ingredient in theconversation, has to have a
(06:16):
path, a leadership path forward.
If the employee wants that, ifthe employee wants that.
So yes, you've got to havethose conversations for it to be
consistent and easy.
Pete Newsome (06:26):
And not every employee does, and that's OK.
We know that.
Ricky Baez (06:30):
That is perfectly OK , and actually that's one of
those things.
You know what Can?
I skip to the end real quick,because that one right there is
towards the end.
Pete Newsome (06:36):
You're going to do that anyway.
You do that no matter, everytime, so sure.
Ricky Baez (06:41):
You're, because number seven is use employee
input to guide your decision.
And I've said this in the past,Pete, it's you as the employer.
You are the car right, you arethat employee's GPS and that
employee has to drive theircareer and they have to tell you
where they want to go in thatcareer and you should be able to
(07:01):
help them along the way.
I'm saying all of that just tosay not every employee wants to
be in leadership.
Pete Newsome (07:07):
Understood Well, and we know that all too well.
And again, if you'recommunicating openly on both
sides shouldn't be an issue.
I think those problems arisewhen assumptions are made, and
we all know what assuming does.
So we shouldn't do it.
Stay away from that.
Just communicate, put it on thetable and understand what
(07:28):
everyone's objectives are.
If you can do that I mean, itsounds so easy and in sitting
here now it makes sense.
But we know those things areeasier said than done.
But if you start early and youplan because that's what this is
all about planning- yes, it isabout planning and folks.
Ricky Baez (07:47):
I know a lot of organizations.
They tend to shy away from itand look, I get it From a
business leaders perspective.
You don't want to spend a lotof time, money and effort in
things that doesn't necessarilybring immediate value.
But the important thing toreally keep in mind here is that
this does provide value, but ata $30,000 for view not right
(08:08):
there.
So you have to have thestrategic mindset to understand
the full value in this process.
Pete Newsome (08:13):
And that's why I mentioned earlier by default, I
would say the larger companieswould have an easier time having
the resources to be morestrategic, or I think a lot of
small businesses just live inconstant reactive mode.
That's true too, not that theyshould, but it's more of a
necessity.
However, having the disciplineto plan ahead, to think medium
(08:37):
term, long term, to really bestrategic, it's one of those
things, and, as a business ownerfor 18 years now, I think about
all the time.
There's those things that Iknow I need to do it, but boy,
there's a lot of fires to putout on any given day and we have
to be disciplined enough tomake the time and do the
planning.
Ricky Baez (08:57):
And don't we train people to do that, Pete?
Don't?
We want a leader working for usthat knows how to prioritize?
Pete Newsome (09:04):
Of course.
Ricky Baez (09:05):
This is something we train people to do.
You have to prioritize.
So I mean, I guess it's one ofthose things that we are
receiving, we are experiencing aresult from our doing.
We want something, somebody youcan prioritize, and then
somebody puts I don't knowbenefits packages on top of this
and this doesn't get touched,and then it becomes an issue.
Pete Newsome (09:25):
That's right.
What's the saying?
The cliche, if you fail to plan, then you should plan on
failing right and failingabsolutely.
All right so, but we'replanning, we're doing this, so
the next thing you want to do isidentify the type of leader you
want, right?
I mean, is that?
Do you agree with that Thoughtin the process?
Ricky Baez (09:45):
I do, folks, you have to.
In order for you to figure outwhat kind of leaders you want to
cultivate, what kind of leadersyou want to put in place, you
have to know what your cultureis, you have to know what your
core values are, and you have tocreate an environment where
your leaders and your employees,even yourself, are living and
breathing that culture.
Now, not all cultures fit allleadership styles and not all
(10:08):
leadership styles fit allcultures.
So, from the beginning, you aregoing to want to decide what is
the type of leader that youwant.
You want a pragmatic leader.
You want a forward thinkingleader.
You want a leader who is really, really influential.
It depends on A the businessyou're in, the kind of customers
you have and what kind ofbusiness dealings you have with
that customer, and what kind ofculture you want the
(10:30):
organization to show from abranding perspective.
So these are some things thatyou really have to think about
before you start puttingtogether a succession plan.
Pete Newsome (10:38):
I think this is also an opportunity to make
improvements, to upgrade yourleadership.
It's all part of that picture.
Every organization wants to bebetter tomorrow than they are
today.
No surprise there, but theleadership in place guides that
probably as much, if not more,than anything else.
Ricky Baez (10:58):
You said something interesting right now, because
what happens is if you have anorganization that always fills
positions from within, then yes,I mean you are cultivating
leadership, you are cultivatingthe type of influence you want
and you would build a processfor that.
But remember, it's a successionmanagement process Completely
(11:21):
takes away any type ofopportunity from somebody from
the outside to come in.
Absolutely Because otherwisewhy would you need it?
Pete Newsome (11:28):
Well, how are you going to grow, evolve and
improve if everyone only knowsthe same way of doing things,
the same style, the sameapproach?
And I've had to come toappreciate that over the years
where, as an employee in myyounger days, I thought, well,
you should only promote fromwithin, and because, as an
(11:50):
employee, that's what I'mstriving for, I want to earn
that, and then, if I do, I thinkI deserve that to some degree.
Now, that's a bad word to use,right, we know better.
Ricky Baez (11:59):
I get it.
Pete Newsome (12:01):
But there is value in bringing in that outside
expertise, new perspectives, wayof doing things and honestly, I
wish I had earned that a lotsooner.
I held on.
When I started my own businessa long time ago now it was I
built it to be the company thatI wanted as an employee but
(12:21):
couldn't find, and one of thosethings was that internal
promotions that I didn't want tobring people from the outside
over the top of great employees,Because I had that done to me
and I didn't like it.
But I see the value in it nowdifferently and I wish I had
picked up on that sooner.
But live and learn right.
(12:42):
That's why we're here now.
We know better and we can sharethese pieces of advice.
Ricky Baez (12:48):
Well, Pete, I'll tell you this I don't know of
anybody just starting out intheir career who wouldn't feel
that way if that happened tothem.
Because when I started out inHR, I always thought why would
you want to go outside?
You've got great talent in here.
It wasn't until I grew up in mycareer and I was the leader
that I'm like oh, we gotblinders, we need fresh blood,
(13:10):
we need fresh ideas.
So I don't know of any newemployees starting out in their
career that would feeldifferently than what you and I
did growing up in our career.
So I completely get that,completely understand.
Pete Newsome (13:21):
So we mentioned earlier that change is
inevitable.
So the next thing on the listplan for these vacancies.
Anticipate what's going tohappen, and that's a great
motivator to stop and considersuccession planning, even when
you don't think you have time to.
Ricky Baez (13:40):
Organizations that have a defined retirement plan.
It's easy for them because youhave a formula that tells you
what how many people are goingto leave.
You quote unquote in X amountof years, the Federal Aviation
Association of the FAA I thinkthat's what it's called the FAA
has some rules about pilots thatyou cannot fly after a certain
(14:04):
age.
So, that tells a lot of theseorganizations.
Well, once you hit a certainage and you're still there,
you're going to retire with us.
I know how many pilots aregoing to leave in five years?
So now I have five years tocultivate my leadership to get
to that level.
That way I don't miss a step.
Pete Newsome (14:19):
What is that age?
Do we have any idea?
Ricky Baez (14:21):
I thought it was 62.
Pete Newsome (14:22):
I could be wrong, you can't fly at that age, but
you can add 22 and be Presidentof the United States.
It's just fine.
Ricky Baez (14:31):
Look, if you're flying a plane, you got 200
souls on like literally right Atyour fingertips.
I mean I think you're 62.
Somebody please correct me, Idon't know.
Pete Newsome (14:41):
I'm not going to be crazy, but having access to
nuclear weapons seems likesomething you should have.
I don't even want to talk aboutthe average age in our Congress
.
So, look, we should separatethe type of vacancies right To
your point.
Those are predictable.
You know what someone's age is,you know what age they're going
(15:02):
to be and, in a scenario likethe one you described, that they
will be departing.
People retire.
There are predictable vacancies, but there's also those who you
don't see coming right.
So those are two differentconsiderations.
Ricky Baez (15:20):
So, Pete, I'm about to say I said this in class and
the whole class cringe, but it'sjust because the cringe is not
false.
You know who's good atsuccession planning.
Pete Newsome (15:31):
Who.
Ricky Baez (15:32):
Drug cartels.
Pete Newsome (15:33):
Okay, okay.
Ricky Baez (15:34):
No, seriously, they're great at it.
When somebody goes to jail,somebody always steps up and
when that person is in place,they're always training their
right-hand person right.
There's this book.
I suggest people pick it up.
It's called Narconomics andthis book talks about how the
drug cartels of today if thesefolks who run those things would
(15:57):
put those skills that they havefor legal use, we would be in a
much better place in this world.
But I'm saying that because youdo have to plan for the
vacancies that you see coming.
You also have to plan for thevacancies you don't see coming.
Right.
You always that seatbelt right,that's right.
That seatbelt that you go intoneed, and how that works is the
(16:19):
plan you put in place forvacancies.
You don't anticipate.
You've always have to have to.
It's like Star Wars.
You always have to have amaster and an apprentice.
Pete Newsome (16:29):
You were so good, you did it 15 minutes without a
Star Wars reference.
Ricky Baez (16:35):
You know I cannot go on a show without talking about
Star Wars.
Right, but it's so.
Here's the best way to gauge it.
Whenever somebody goes,whenever a leader goes on
vacation, and you've alreadyidentified who that second in
command is going to be you putthat person in this place.
You don't call that person onvacation.
You don't call that person inthe hospital Susan got it, billy
got it, marcia got it right andyou put them in those positions
(16:59):
.
And this is where you have toexpect they're going to make
mistakes and this is where partof your strategy has to have a
support system for those folksthat are not 100% used to it,
but if they make a mistake, hrand the senior leadership is
there to help them through it.
You've got to have a processfor that, just in case somebody
gets hit by a bus or somebodyhits the lotto and they just
(17:19):
leave you.
You've already got that oneperson that has 50% of the
experience.
Pete Newsome (17:23):
Makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, and easier said than done.
And that leads us to the nextpoint, which is testing these
scenarios in real life, andthat's a challenge.
Ricky Baez (17:36):
You have to be willing To let your new leaders
fall and scrape their knees.
You have to be willing to letthem fall, make a mistake, but
you have to have a process tominimize the effect of that
mistake for everybody else inthe organization.
Right, so, anticipated somebodyis going to step up, even if
they're not going on vacation,right?
(17:58):
Just hey, why don't you take astep back and let Billy take
over for for a month and see howhe does?
Let's Susan See how she doesand have a mitigation plan in
place in case.
Because, remember, you got totake those calculated risks.
You just can't take awilly-nilly risk because you may
cause the organization a lot ofmoney, but the amount, the
amount of money you spend, theamount of money you lose in
(18:20):
those small mistakes, it'snothing in comparison to what
would happen if you're not readyfor that person to step up,
because then your clients aregoing to notice.
So you have to, you know,compare those dollars and cents
makes a lot of sense.
Pete Newsome (18:31):
So we're all along .
You know I it occurred to methat you could make a whole
story with your car analogy withthis after you made the
seatbelt Comment.
So that's my challenge you wascome up with.
You know it entire.
You have a succession planning.
You know article about.
You know with cars as theanalogy.
Ricky Baez (18:50):
So how annoying it is, until you need it.
Pete Newsome (18:52):
Something like that.
Right, but?
But there's a lot, there's alot of similarities there, I
think.
So so the next thing on thelist let's talk about Hiring.
Right, we're higher callinghere.
We talked about hiring,staffing and recruiting, of
course.
So, you know, as we are talking, you could be thinking well,
what the heck does this have todo with hiring?
(19:13):
Right?
Well, a lot, because you don'tjust hire for today, you need to
hire for the future and planahead.
So no better, you know, nobetter tie to hiring than
succession planning.
Ricky Baez (19:28):
This is the rhetorical question to all the
recruiters out there, right?
The question is, how many timeshave a candidate ask you what,
where?
What, what's your, what's yourcareer Paffing plan?
Right?
What?
What is your career progressionlook like?
What's your plan for that?
You have some employees that domake a decision on whether they
jump ship from their currentorganization to yours, on
(19:50):
whether you have a good plan forthem to move up.
You got to think about whythey're leaving their previous
organization, whether it's moneyor no career progression.
If you have a well-defined plan, sometimes that is the hook to
go into need to actually havethem accept the offer letter and
start with you Absolutely.
Sometimes people do take a stepback in their career for an
(20:13):
opportunity to move forward in anew organization when the
opportunity was absent in theprevious organization.
So if you have a well-definedplan, it better be a part of
your, of your, of yourrecruitment market, because that
is a reap I hate to call itbait but that's a really good
incentive for people to doneship to come to you, especially
if they're looking to progressin their careers.
Pete Newsome (20:34):
Well, as you know, I believe that a recruiter's
job is not to convincecandidates to take a job.
That's true, right to you, andI even made a post about this on
on like dinner this week,saying that, look a good, you
can.
You can be a persuasiverecruiter and convince someone
to show up for an interview,even accept a job, if you're
persuasive enough.
But that is not something youshould be doing.
(20:58):
You should present the fullpicture, because the goal is for
an employee Not just to startthe job but to stay and have a
happy ending at the end, withall parties Happy with it, with
the, the outcome in in.
In this case, we're talkingabout really long term, and so I
think it's brilliant to presentthe full picture and not just
here's the job today, here's thejob and how it can evolve in in
(21:24):
on both sides.
So recruiter should be havingthose discussions with their
clients and saying what, what isthe path right?
Not I know what it is today.
That's great, that's that's.
We have to check those boxes.
But what does the future looklike?
And candidates who think ahead,who think beyond the moment,
they want to know those thingsand if you don't have an answer,
you're going to lose a.
(21:45):
You're probably going to lose alittle bit of time.
You're probably going to lose alot of the best candidates out
there.
Ricky Baez (21:50):
You got that right, and not only where, where, where
the employee would go from therecruiting perspective, but also
success stories when I workedat Darden restaurants.
Darden used to own Red Lobsterand I'm going to I'm going to
name drop here Dave Pickens.
He used to be the president ofof Red Lobster about 10 years
ago.
He has since been retired.
(22:11):
You know how he started in thatorganization as a bus boy in
the late 60s, early 70s.
You he started as a busboy madeit all the way up to president
of the organization.
If that doesn't tell acandidate that this organization
has a well thought outsuccession management plan, then
I don't know what will.
And Darden did Darden did dothat they had a year-long
(22:33):
manager in training program tohave the next leaders ready just
in case somebody decides toleave.
So it's a great marketing tooland you know what?
And if you have that out there,honestly Pete recruited you
right.
They don't have to convinceanybody.
Pete Newsome (22:48):
Correct.
Ricky Baez (22:49):
Correct.
The plan is there andeverything says it, and the only
question you have to say whendo you want to start?
Pete Newsome (22:54):
That's right and then go from there.
What a great story, though, andwhat.
Ricky Baez (22:58):
From busboy to president of the entire
organization.
I didn't know that Okay.
Pete Newsome (23:02):
I love it.
That's great.
It doesn't happen often enough,but that's that's.
There's no better testimony to,like you said, an organization
thinking ahead.
So now input.
You mentioned that that's nexton our list Communication
internally.
Talk to your employees.
Not everyone wants to be aleader, that's not a surprise,
(23:27):
but it doesn't mean they're lessvaluable to the organization.
Ricky Baez (23:30):
That's correct, and the biggest mistake a leader can
make about their employees isto put them in a leadership
position when the employee A isnot ready or, b, more
importantly, they don't want to.
So what happens is is theseconversations need to happen,
often in the one on ones right.
Every one on one, about theemployee's performance has to
(23:51):
have at least five minutes inthere about where do you want to
go, where do you want to be andhow can I help you get there?
Now notice I said I'm not goingto get you there how I, as a
leader, can help you get there.
I'll give you the blueprints,I'll give you the map.
You have to walk, you got to dothat and and and.
It's up to the employee.
And if the employee says, no,boss, I'm good, I just going to
(24:13):
stay here and be an analyst,then help him be the best
analyst the organization hasever seen.
Pete Newsome (24:17):
Absolutely, and then do that, and then you're
all set.
Yeah, absolutely.
I love it.
Well, ricky.
The last thing on our list isto enlist the help of experts
where necessary.
So we have you.
We have great recruitingorganizations like Four Corner
Resources, who will look beyondjust the, the basic job
description.
So there's multiple avenues togo in that direction and you
(24:41):
really do.
I mean, I can't state thisenough and of course, I'm biased
, but I've been doing this for along time successfully.
And and this is what I'velearned that you need to look at
the bigger picture when you'rerecruiting.
Don't just look at the skillson a job description.
Look at who the individual isRight.
(25:01):
That's how I used to take joborders, job wrecks from, from
prospects and clients.
I'd say great that you.
You're telling me the, the, thedetails of the job, the hard
skills.
Tell me who you need to hireRight.
I want to want to understandwhat you expect of this person
over time, not just can they dothe job, do they will, they will
(25:23):
, you want them in the job?
Right?
Where's the future of the job?
And the same conversations youneed to take place with
candidates.
It's not about can you do it.
Is this a job you want to be inand for the right reasons.
So that's expertise from arecruiting standpoint.
We need to draw these thingsout in the conversations we have
.
But what about from yourperspective as a, as an HR
(25:47):
consultant?
Where can you add value inthese discussions?
Ricky Baez (25:51):
Look, pete, I it's.
Um.
I know that YouTube is reallybig right now.
I know a lot of people.
When they want to do ityourself, they're going YouTube
right.
I learned a long time ago don'tgo that route.
I just had office installed inmy lights and you think I'm
going to do it?
No, cause you'll see me in thenews about some guy who burned
his whole neighborhood downcause he didn't know what he was
doing, right?
What I'm saying is there'sexperts out there, right?
(26:12):
If you want somebody to come in, if if you're saying you don't
have time for this, okay, Iunderstand that.
Bring somebody in who does thisfor a living and they will take
this off your hands and all youhave to do is you say what kind
of leaders do you want, and anexpert will come in and make
this happen for you.
That will save you a lot ofheadaches, because, although you
(26:33):
should leave, put leeway foryour employees to make mistakes
and have them learn from it it'snot necessarily the same from
the executive leadership puttingsomething like this, because if
they make a mistake with this,it will cost them talent.
Talent will jump ship,especially the talent that has
high caliber and that otherpeople are courting them.
(26:56):
We cannot afford to make amistake here.
So bring somebody in from theoutside who can help you,
especially exactly how you said,pete, what separates your
organization right, it's fourcorner resource from everybody
else.
It's exactly what you said.
You don't just look forsomebody to bring them on board
and then cash a paycheck.
You want to make sure that yourclient has somebody that's
(27:18):
going to be with them for thelongest time, right?
Not looking five minutes infront of you, but five months,
five years in front of you, andthat is the kind of a thought
process that separates theprofessionals from the amateurs.
Who learned it on YouTube.
Pete Newsome (27:32):
Great, I love it.
And look, ricky, we have anumber of examples in this blog
article that I encourageeveryone to read.
We won't go into them now, butit's got some tools that we
recommend.
It has some examples of greatorganizations who've done very
(27:53):
well with this, and it has somemistakes to avoid.
Now I do want to touch on themistakes just briefly and run
through those, because so far, Ithink you're giving a pretty
good grade on this blog that wehave.
So, not spending time andenergy on succession plan Well,
we already have identified thatthat's a mistake.
Right, you have to do it.
Not including the fullleadership team.
(28:15):
So what's your take on that?
Excluding some individualssomething to avoid?
Ricky Baez (28:20):
Huge mistake.
Huge mistake Because here's whyBecause they're a leader in
your organization.
Somebody above them thoughtsomething in these folks that
said they're going to be a greatleader.
If you're going to trust themwith that kind of responsibility
, why would you not trust themto give input on the future of
the organization?
(28:40):
Correct, they have an input.
The more eyes, from aleadership perspective, you have
on this, the better positionyou're going to be on getting it
right, because you're attackingone issue from 20 different
points of view.
The more leaders are involved,the better.
Pete Newsome (28:56):
Perfect, and one of the things that's on this is
to avoid is having a small poolof perspective leaders, and one
of the themes when we do thesepodcasts you never really know
where we're going to end up.
Right, we have a starting point, but the finish line sometimes
looks entirely different, andone of the themes I think
(29:17):
through our conversation todayhas been there's value in
looking internally and there'svalue and necessity to look
externally, so you have to doboth if you're really going to
do it right, and that's a pointwe wanted to make in this blog
article.
Hopefully it came across, butthat's just coincidentally,
that's been a recurring themethrough our conversation today.
Ricky Baez (29:41):
So I've been waiting for you to hit on that one,
because having a small pool ofpotential candidates, that is
the equivalent of shootingyourself in the foot.
Right, because you have to makea decision.
Right, if you have a small poolof potential candidates, then
what are you doing to get themready?
How are you hiring?
Right, because this goes backto the hiring piece.
(30:01):
Right, if you see somebody, ifyou're interviewing somebody
that is perfect for the currentrole, but they're years away
from being a leader, you have tomake a decision about what.
If you hire that person, howmuch is it going to cost and
time and money because time ismoney to get that person trained
up.
So you have to know what thatis, what that threshold is, and
(30:24):
maybe put a succession plan inplace where there is an MIT, a
manager in training program thatgives people the fundamentals
of leadership to bring them tothe very bottom, at the least,
the minimum fundamentals thatthey need to be in the
succession planning process.
That is crucial right there, tomake sure that you make a
decision how you want to trainand how much money you want to
(30:45):
spend to bring them up to speedlater on.
Pete Newsome (30:47):
I love it.
There's more in the blog.
There's tools listed, there'sother resources.
Rick, you will put your contactinformation in the show notes
and, of course, the link to thearticle, but I think that's a
great place to stop becausewe've really put a bow around it
.
I didn't say our other phrasetoday.
I avoided it.
We'll skip it for one week, butthis has been great.
(31:10):
Thank you so much If you'velistened this far.
Thanks for joining us, asalways, and we'll talk to you
very soon.
Be back next week, ricky, thankyou.
Ricky Baez (31:19):
Thank you very much, Pete.
Have a good one, folks.
See you in a few.
I'm going to do it too.
Okay, there we go.
You're listening to the HireCalling podcast.
I'm Pete Newsome and this isyour source for all things
hiring, staffing and recruiting.
I'm joined once again by RickyBaez.
Ricky, how are you on thisFriday morning?
Ricky Baez (00:15):
I am doing great.
Friday is here.
Weekend is here.
Weather's great for grilling.
College football is the besttime of the year, Pete.
Pete Newsome (00:23):
And Halloween season, which we both love.
So that's right, this is good.
Ricky Baez (00:28):
I actually went to Halloween Horror Nights on
Sunday.
It was insane.
It was insane, but well worthit.
Pete Newsome (00:34):
So we're going to talk about something today
that's hopefully a little lessscary but only if you plan for
it and that is successionplanning how to do it right, and
there's eight steps that we'lltalk through Now.
This is of particular interestto you right now because you're
teaching a class at RollinsCollege about succession
(00:54):
planning.
Ricky Baez (00:56):
That's correct.
Right now, I've got about 21students that are in their
master's program and we aretalking about what succession
planning is and how they can useit at work or as a consultant,
because this is something I mean.
I know you said it's not scary,but let me tell you it's.
With the amount oforganizations that don't use
this, it is actually prettyscary for an HR consultant.
(01:17):
So, yeah, we need to take adeep dive.
Pete Newsome (01:20):
Why do you think I have a theory, but I want to
hear from you?
Why do you think most companiesstruggle with this?
Ricky Baez (01:27):
Because most companies have their favorite
leaders and they have theirfavorite leaders because of
their interactions with them andthey don't take into account
some of the skill sets thatthey're going to need to
actually be successful, right?
So a lot of organizations, alot of these senior executive
leaders, they have theirfavorites and they're kind of
afraid that their favorites maynot be looked at the same from
(01:48):
everybody else because it's withsuccession planning.
Everybody has an input on aspecific leader to be.
So I guess some organizationssay and I've actually heard this
we don't have time forsuccession planning.
Pete Newsome (02:02):
Now, that makes sense.
That makes sense to me.
It's one of those things youdon't have time for it until you
need it and you realize youshould have made time.
Probably right, but that's likea lot of things in life and
business.
Ricky Baez (02:13):
It is.
It's just one of those thingsthat the value isn't necessarily
present without it being needed.
It's needed is when the valueis felt.
Pete Newsome (02:25):
And then it's too late.
Ricky Baez (02:26):
Yeah, then it's too late.
Pete Newsome (02:28):
Let's back up before we go forward, if you
wouldn't mind.
What is succession planning?
Describe it briefly, if youcould.
Ricky Baez (02:36):
Succession planning is a strategy that you put in
place that helps theorganization put the right
leaders in place in casesomebody retires, somebody
leaves unexpectedly or they areforced out unexpectedly.
It's the more time that goes bywithout a strategic leader in
place, the more money you'relosing and the less influence
(02:58):
you have for you employees whodo have that direct connect with
your customers.
Pete Newsome (03:02):
That makes sense, and so you also answered the
question there of why it'simportant.
Ricky Baez (03:06):
For those very reasons, Absolutely, Because you
want to know.
I mean, it's always good toknow that your favorite leader
is always going to be there.
But what if they hit the lotto?
What if, unfortunately, theypass away?
What if they do somethingthey're not supposed to get?
Let go?
The business cannot stop.
It still needs to propelforward and you have to be ready
for that.
Pete Newsome (03:26):
Absolutely Well.
We know that change isinevitable.
We know that surprises come upconstantly, so to prepare for
those it just makes sense onpaper.
I think it's probably easiersaid than done.
I think you have to applyforesight that most companies I
think the bigger you are, themore resources you have for that
(03:46):
sort of effort.
I think for small businessesit's probably harder than for
large.
Would you agree with that?
Ricky Baez (03:52):
It's actually easier for small businesses.
It's easier because you don'thave the many leaders to choose
from.
Good point Versus largeorganizations.
You have a huge pool and itdoes take more time.
It does take more effort and itcosts more money the bigger you
are, but the more important itis.
Pete Newsome (04:10):
I understood.
Well, all right, let's get intoit.
Let's start with the first step.
I think I'll let you lead this.
But what is the first step?
I know we have a blog that wewrote on four-corner resources
about this that I asked you tochallenge to see, since you are
knee-deep into this right now tosee if you agree.
(04:32):
So I'll let you pick it apartto hear your thoughts.
So step one when do we begin?
Ricky Baez (04:40):
Step one.
So there are eight steps.
So in this blog there are eightsteps for effective succession
planning process.
The first step is start earlyand make it an ongoing team
effort.
I could not agree with thismore.
This cannot be one of thoseones Well, I mean, it is a
once-in-a-year thing but itcannot be one of those things
that you only address when it'sneeded.
(05:00):
It has to be a weekly thing, ithas to be a monthly thing, it
has to be a quarterly thing.
The more you do it, the moreconsistent you are, the more
comfortable you're.
Executive leadership is goingto be in that process and the
key word here is process.
We have to put this as part ofthe process.
We have to do this as much asthe one-on-ones.
We have to do this as much asthe quarterly reviews or annual
(05:23):
reviews or bi-annual reviews.
So the earlier you start andthe more often you do it, the
easier it's going to get.
So, start early, make it anongoing thing with your team,
but the key is going to beconsistency.
You've got to be consistentwith it, whether you're in
research and development orfinance.
Pete Newsome (05:43):
Makes so much sense.
Now you said it's the kind ofthing you touch regularly.
Weekly.
Does it have to be thatfrequently, can you?
Is quarterly enough.
Ricky Baez (05:55):
Quarterly is enough.
I mean, I say weekly becausesome organizations they do have
weekly meetings with theirpeople right With their teams
one-on-one.
So if you're in a higher typeof leadership position where you
do have one-on-one with a teamleader, then every conversation
has to have an ingredient in theconversation, has to have a
(06:16):
path, a leadership path forward.
If the employee wants that, ifthe employee wants that.
So yes, you've got to havethose conversations for it to be
consistent and easy.
Pete Newsome (06:26):
And not every employee does, and that's OK.
We know that.
Ricky Baez (06:30):
That is perfectly OK , and actually that's one of
those things.
You know what Can?
I skip to the end real quick,because that one right there is
towards the end.
Pete Newsome (06:36):
You're going to do that anyway.
You do that no matter, everytime, so sure.
Ricky Baez (06:41):
You're, because number seven is use employee
input to guide your decision.
And I've said this in the past,Pete, it's you as the employer.
You are the car right, you arethat employee's GPS and that
employee has to drive theircareer and they have to tell you
where they want to go in thatcareer and you should be able to
(07:01):
help them along the way.
I'm saying all of that just tosay not every employee wants to
be in leadership.
Pete Newsome (07:07):
Understood Well, and we know that all too well.
And again, if you'recommunicating openly on both
sides shouldn't be an issue.
I think those problems arisewhen assumptions are made, and
we all know what assuming does.
So we shouldn't do it.
Stay away from that.
Just communicate, put it on thetable and understand what
(07:28):
everyone's objectives are.
If you can do that I mean, itsounds so easy and in sitting
here now it makes sense.
But we know those things areeasier said than done.
But if you start early and youplan because that's what this is
all about planning- yes, it isabout planning and folks.
Ricky Baez (07:47):
I know a lot of organizations.
They tend to shy away from itand look, I get it From a
business leaders perspective.
You don't want to spend a lotof time, money and effort in
things that doesn't necessarilybring immediate value.
But the important thing toreally keep in mind here is that
this does provide value, but ata $30,000 for view not right
(08:08):
there.
So you have to have thestrategic mindset to understand
the full value in this process.
Pete Newsome (08:13):
And that's why I mentioned earlier by default, I
would say the larger companieswould have an easier time having
the resources to be morestrategic, or I think a lot of
small businesses just live inconstant reactive mode.
That's true too, not that theyshould, but it's more of a
necessity.
However, having the disciplineto plan ahead, to think medium
(08:37):
term, long term, to really bestrategic, it's one of those
things, and, as a business ownerfor 18 years now, I think about
all the time.
There's those things that Iknow I need to do it, but boy,
there's a lot of fires to putout on any given day and we have
to be disciplined enough tomake the time and do the
planning.
Ricky Baez (08:57):
And don't we train people to do that, Pete?
Don't?
We want a leader working for usthat knows how to prioritize?
Pete Newsome (09:04):
Of course.
Ricky Baez (09:05):
This is something we train people to do.
You have to prioritize.
So I mean, I guess it's one ofthose things that we are
receiving, we are experiencing aresult from our doing.
We want something, somebody youcan prioritize, and then
somebody puts I don't knowbenefits packages on top of this
and this doesn't get touched,and then it becomes an issue.
Pete Newsome (09:25):
That's right.
What's the saying?
The cliche, if you fail to plan, then you should plan on
failing right and failingabsolutely.
All right so, but we'replanning, we're doing this, so
the next thing you want to do isidentify the type of leader you
want, right?
I mean, is that?
Do you agree with that Thoughtin the process?
Ricky Baez (09:45):
I do, folks, you have to.
In order for you to figure outwhat kind of leaders you want to
cultivate, what kind of leadersyou want to put in place, you
have to know what your cultureis, you have to know what your
core values are, and you have tocreate an environment where
your leaders and your employees,even yourself, are living and
breathing that culture.
Now, not all cultures fit allleadership styles and not all
(10:08):
leadership styles fit allcultures.
So, from the beginning, you aregoing to want to decide what is
the type of leader that youwant.
You want a pragmatic leader.
You want a forward thinkingleader.
You want a leader who is really, really influential.
It depends on A the businessyou're in, the kind of customers
you have and what kind ofbusiness dealings you have with
that customer, and what kind ofculture you want the
(10:30):
organization to show from abranding perspective.
So these are some things thatyou really have to think about
before you start puttingtogether a succession plan.
Pete Newsome (10:38):
I think this is also an opportunity to make
improvements, to upgrade yourleadership.
It's all part of that picture.
Every organization wants to bebetter tomorrow than they are
today.
No surprise there, but theleadership in place guides that
probably as much, if not more,than anything else.
Ricky Baez (10:58):
You said something interesting right now, because
what happens is if you have anorganization that always fills
positions from within, then yes,I mean you are cultivating
leadership, you are cultivatingthe type of influence you want
and you would build a processfor that.
But remember, it's a successionmanagement process Completely
(11:21):
takes away any type ofopportunity from somebody from
the outside to come in.
Absolutely Because otherwisewhy would you need it?
Pete Newsome (11:28):
Well, how are you going to grow, evolve and
improve if everyone only knowsthe same way of doing things,
the same style, the sameapproach?
And I've had to come toappreciate that over the years
where, as an employee in myyounger days, I thought, well,
you should only promote fromwithin, and because, as an
(11:50):
employee, that's what I'mstriving for, I want to earn
that, and then, if I do, I thinkI deserve that to some degree.
Now, that's a bad word to use,right, we know better.
Ricky Baez (11:59):
I get it.
Pete Newsome (12:01):
But there is value in bringing in that outside
expertise, new perspectives, wayof doing things and honestly, I
wish I had earned that a lotsooner.
I held on.
When I started my own businessa long time ago now it was I
built it to be the company thatI wanted as an employee but
(12:21):
couldn't find, and one of thosethings was that internal
promotions that I didn't want tobring people from the outside
over the top of great employees,Because I had that done to me
and I didn't like it.
But I see the value in it nowdifferently and I wish I had
picked up on that sooner.
But live and learn right.
(12:42):
That's why we're here now.
We know better and we can sharethese pieces of advice.
Ricky Baez (12:48):
Well, Pete, I'll tell you this I don't know of
anybody just starting out intheir career who wouldn't feel
that way if that happened tothem.
Because when I started out inHR, I always thought why would
you want to go outside?
You've got great talent in here.
It wasn't until I grew up in mycareer and I was the leader
that I'm like oh, we gotblinders, we need fresh blood,
(13:10):
we need fresh ideas.
So I don't know of any newemployees starting out in their
career that would feeldifferently than what you and I
did growing up in our career.
So I completely get that,completely understand.
Pete Newsome (13:21):
So we mentioned earlier that change is
inevitable.
So the next thing on the listplan for these vacancies.
Anticipate what's going tohappen, and that's a great
motivator to stop and considersuccession planning, even when
you don't think you have time to.
Ricky Baez (13:40):
Organizations that have a defined retirement plan.
It's easy for them because youhave a formula that tells you
what how many people are goingto leave.
You quote unquote in X amountof years, the Federal Aviation
Association of the FAA I thinkthat's what it's called the FAA
has some rules about pilots thatyou cannot fly after a certain
(14:04):
age.
So, that tells a lot of theseorganizations.
Well, once you hit a certainage and you're still there,
you're going to retire with us.
I know how many pilots aregoing to leave in five years?
So now I have five years tocultivate my leadership to get
to that level.
That way I don't miss a step.
Pete Newsome (14:19):
What is that age?
Do we have any idea?
Ricky Baez (14:21):
I thought it was 62.
Pete Newsome (14:22):
I could be wrong, you can't fly at that age, but
you can add 22 and be Presidentof the United States.
It's just fine.
Ricky Baez (14:31):
Look, if you're flying a plane, you got 200
souls on like literally right Atyour fingertips.
I mean I think you're 62.
Somebody please correct me, Idon't know.
Pete Newsome (14:41):
I'm not going to be crazy, but having access to
nuclear weapons seems likesomething you should have.
I don't even want to talk aboutthe average age in our Congress
.
So, look, we should separatethe type of vacancies right To
your point.
Those are predictable.
You know what someone's age is,you know what age they're going
(15:02):
to be and, in a scenario likethe one you described, that they
will be departing.
People retire.
There are predictable vacancies, but there's also those who you
don't see coming right.
So those are two differentconsiderations.
Ricky Baez (15:20):
So, Pete, I'm about to say I said this in class and
the whole class cringe, but it'sjust because the cringe is not
false.
You know who's good atsuccession planning.
Pete Newsome (15:31):
Who.
Ricky Baez (15:32):
Drug cartels.
Pete Newsome (15:33):
Okay, okay.
Ricky Baez (15:34):
No, seriously, they're great at it.
When somebody goes to jail,somebody always steps up and
when that person is in place,they're always training their
right-hand person right.
There's this book.
I suggest people pick it up.
It's called Narconomics andthis book talks about how the
drug cartels of today if thesefolks who run those things would
(15:57):
put those skills that they havefor legal use, we would be in a
much better place in this world.
But I'm saying that because youdo have to plan for the
vacancies that you see coming.
You also have to plan for thevacancies you don't see coming.
Right.
You always that seatbelt right,that's right.
That seatbelt that you go intoneed, and how that works is the
(16:19):
plan you put in place forvacancies.
You don't anticipate.
You've always have to have to.
It's like Star Wars.
You always have to have amaster and an apprentice.
Pete Newsome (16:29):
You were so good, you did it 15 minutes without a
Star Wars reference.
Ricky Baez (16:35):
You know I cannot go on a show without talking about
Star Wars.
Right, but it's so.
Here's the best way to gauge it.
Whenever somebody goes,whenever a leader goes on
vacation, and you've alreadyidentified who that second in
command is going to be you putthat person in this place.
You don't call that person onvacation.
You don't call that person inthe hospital Susan got it, billy
got it, marcia got it right andyou put them in those positions
(16:59):
.
And this is where you have toexpect they're going to make
mistakes and this is where partof your strategy has to have a
support system for those folksthat are not 100% used to it,
but if they make a mistake, hrand the senior leadership is
there to help them through it.
You've got to have a processfor that, just in case somebody
gets hit by a bus or somebodyhits the lotto and they just
(17:19):
leave you.
You've already got that oneperson that has 50% of the
experience.
Pete Newsome (17:23):
Makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, and easier said than done.
And that leads us to the nextpoint, which is testing these
scenarios in real life, andthat's a challenge.
Ricky Baez (17:36):
You have to be willing To let your new leaders
fall and scrape their knees.
You have to be willing to letthem fall, make a mistake, but
you have to have a process tominimize the effect of that
mistake for everybody else inthe organization.
Right, so, anticipated somebodyis going to step up, even if
they're not going on vacation,right?
(17:58):
Just hey, why don't you take astep back and let Billy take
over for for a month and see howhe does?
Let's Susan See how she doesand have a mitigation plan in
place in case.
Because, remember, you got totake those calculated risks.
You just can't take awilly-nilly risk because you may
cause the organization a lot ofmoney, but the amount, the
amount of money you spend, theamount of money you lose in
(18:20):
those small mistakes, it'snothing in comparison to what
would happen if you're not readyfor that person to step up,
because then your clients aregoing to notice.
So you have to, you know,compare those dollars and cents
makes a lot of sense.
Pete Newsome (18:31):
So we're all along .
You know I it occurred to methat you could make a whole
story with your car analogy withthis after you made the
seatbelt Comment.
So that's my challenge you wascome up with.
You know it entire.
You have a succession planning.
You know article about.
You know with cars as theanalogy.
Ricky Baez (18:50):
So how annoying it is, until you need it.
Pete Newsome (18:52):
Something like that.
Right, but?
But there's a lot, there's alot of similarities there, I
think.
So so the next thing on thelist let's talk about Hiring.
Right, we're higher callinghere.
We talked about hiring,staffing and recruiting, of
course.
So, you know, as we are talking, you could be thinking well,
what the heck does this have todo with hiring?
(19:13):
Right?
Well, a lot, because you don'tjust hire for today, you need to
hire for the future and planahead.
So no better, you know, nobetter tie to hiring than
succession planning.
Ricky Baez (19:28):
This is the rhetorical question to all the
recruiters out there, right?
The question is, how many timeshave a candidate ask you what,
where?
What, what's your, what's yourcareer Paffing plan?
Right?
What?
What is your career progressionlook like?
What's your plan for that?
You have some employees that domake a decision on whether they
jump ship from their currentorganization to yours, on
(19:50):
whether you have a good plan forthem to move up.
You got to think about whythey're leaving their previous
organization, whether it's moneyor no career progression.
If you have a well-defined plan, sometimes that is the hook to
go into need to actually havethem accept the offer letter and
start with you Absolutely.
Sometimes people do take a stepback in their career for an
(20:13):
opportunity to move forward in anew organization when the
opportunity was absent in theprevious organization.
So if you have a well-definedplan, it better be a part of
your, of your, of yourrecruitment market, because that
is a reap I hate to call itbait but that's a really good
incentive for people to doneship to come to you, especially
if they're looking to progressin their careers.
Pete Newsome (20:34):
Well, as you know, I believe that a recruiter's
job is not to convincecandidates to take a job.
That's true, right to you, andI even made a post about this on
on like dinner this week,saying that, look a good, you
can.
You can be a persuasiverecruiter and convince someone
to show up for an interview,even accept a job, if you're
persuasive enough.
But that is not something youshould be doing.
(20:58):
You should present the fullpicture, because the goal is for
an employee Not just to startthe job but to stay and have a
happy ending at the end, withall parties Happy with it, with
the, the outcome in in.
In this case, we're talkingabout really long term, and so I
think it's brilliant to presentthe full picture and not just
here's the job today, here's thejob and how it can evolve in in
(21:24):
on both sides.
So recruiter should be havingthose discussions with their
clients and saying what, what isthe path right?
Not I know what it is today.
That's great, that's that's.
We have to check those boxes.
But what does the future looklike?
And candidates who think ahead,who think beyond the moment,
they want to know those thingsand if you don't have an answer,
you're going to lose a.
(21:45):
You're probably going to lose alittle bit of time.
You're probably going to lose alot of the best candidates out
there.
Ricky Baez (21:50):
You got that right, and not only where, where, where
the employee would go from therecruiting perspective, but also
success stories when I workedat Darden restaurants.
Darden used to own Red Lobsterand I'm going to I'm going to
name drop here Dave Pickens.
He used to be the president ofof Red Lobster about 10 years
ago.
He has since been retired.
(22:11):
You know how he started in thatorganization as a bus boy in
the late 60s, early 70s.
You he started as a busboy madeit all the way up to president
of the organization.
If that doesn't tell acandidate that this organization
has a well thought outsuccession management plan, then
I don't know what will.
And Darden did Darden did dothat they had a year-long
(22:33):
manager in training program tohave the next leaders ready just
in case somebody decides toleave.
So it's a great marketing tooland you know what?
And if you have that out there,honestly Pete recruited you
right.
They don't have to convinceanybody.
Pete Newsome (22:48):
Correct.
Ricky Baez (22:49):
Correct.
The plan is there andeverything says it, and the only
question you have to say whendo you want to start?
Pete Newsome (22:54):
That's right and then go from there.
What a great story, though, andwhat.
Ricky Baez (22:58):
From busboy to president of the entire
organization.
I didn't know that Okay.
Pete Newsome (23:02):
I love it.
That's great.
It doesn't happen often enough,but that's that's.
There's no better testimony to,like you said, an organization
thinking ahead.
So now input.
You mentioned that that's nexton our list Communication
internally.
Talk to your employees.
Not everyone wants to be aleader, that's not a surprise,
(23:27):
but it doesn't mean they're lessvaluable to the organization.
Ricky Baez (23:30):
That's correct, and the biggest mistake a leader can
make about their employees isto put them in a leadership
position when the employee A isnot ready or, b, more
importantly, they don't want to.
So what happens is is theseconversations need to happen,
often in the one on ones right.
Every one on one, about theemployee's performance has to
(23:51):
have at least five minutes inthere about where do you want to
go, where do you want to be andhow can I help you get there?
Now notice I said I'm not goingto get you there how I, as a
leader, can help you get there.
I'll give you the blueprints,I'll give you the map.
You have to walk, you got to dothat and and and.
It's up to the employee.
And if the employee says, no,boss, I'm good, I just going to
(24:13):
stay here and be an analyst,then help him be the best
analyst the organization hasever seen.
Pete Newsome (24:17):
Absolutely, and then do that, and then you're
all set.
Yeah, absolutely.
I love it.
Well, ricky.
The last thing on our list isto enlist the help of experts
where necessary.
So we have you.
We have great recruitingorganizations like Four Corner
Resources, who will look beyondjust the, the basic job
description.
So there's multiple avenues togo in that direction and you
(24:41):
really do.
I mean, I can't state thisenough and of course, I'm biased
, but I've been doing this for along time successfully.
And and this is what I'velearned that you need to look at
the bigger picture when you'rerecruiting.
Don't just look at the skillson a job description.
Look at who the individual isRight.
(25:01):
That's how I used to take joborders, job wrecks from, from
prospects and clients.
I'd say great that you.
You're telling me the, the, thedetails of the job, the hard
skills.
Tell me who you need to hireRight.
I want to want to understandwhat you expect of this person
over time, not just can they dothe job, do they will, they will
(25:23):
, you want them in the job?
Right?
Where's the future of the job?
And the same conversations youneed to take place with
candidates.
It's not about can you do it.
Is this a job you want to be inand for the right reasons.
So that's expertise from arecruiting standpoint.
We need to draw these thingsout in the conversations we have
.
But what about from yourperspective as a, as an HR
(25:47):
consultant?
Where can you add value inthese discussions?
Ricky Baez (25:51):
Look, pete, I it's.
Um.
I know that YouTube is reallybig right now.
I know a lot of people.
When they want to do ityourself, they're going YouTube
right.
I learned a long time ago don'tgo that route.
I just had office installed inmy lights and you think I'm
going to do it?
No, cause you'll see me in thenews about some guy who burned
his whole neighborhood downcause he didn't know what he was
doing, right?
What I'm saying is there'sexperts out there, right?
(26:12):
If you want somebody to come in, if if you're saying you don't
have time for this, okay, Iunderstand that.
Bring somebody in who does thisfor a living and they will take
this off your hands and all youhave to do is you say what kind
of leaders do you want, and anexpert will come in and make
this happen for you.
That will save you a lot ofheadaches, because, although you
(26:33):
should leave, put leeway foryour employees to make mistakes
and have them learn from it it'snot necessarily the same from
the executive leadership puttingsomething like this, because if
they make a mistake with this,it will cost them talent.
Talent will jump ship,especially the talent that has
high caliber and that otherpeople are courting them.
(26:56):
We cannot afford to make amistake here.
So bring somebody in from theoutside who can help you,
especially exactly how you said,pete, what separates your
organization right, it's fourcorner resource from everybody
else.
It's exactly what you said.
You don't just look forsomebody to bring them on board
and then cash a paycheck.
You want to make sure that yourclient has somebody that's
(27:18):
going to be with them for thelongest time, right?
Not looking five minutes infront of you, but five months,
five years in front of you, andthat is the kind of a thought
process that separates theprofessionals from the amateurs.
Who learned it on YouTube.
Pete Newsome (27:32):
Great, I love it.
And look, ricky, we have anumber of examples in this blog
article that I encourageeveryone to read.
We won't go into them now, butit's got some tools that we
recommend.
It has some examples of greatorganizations who've done very
(27:53):
well with this, and it has somemistakes to avoid.
Now I do want to touch on themistakes just briefly and run
through those, because so far, Ithink you're giving a pretty
good grade on this blog that wehave.
So, not spending time andenergy on succession plan Well,
we already have identified thatthat's a mistake.
Right, you have to do it.
Not including the fullleadership team.
(28:15):
So what's your take on that?
Excluding some individualssomething to avoid?
Ricky Baez (28:20):
Huge mistake.
Huge mistake Because here's whyBecause they're a leader in
your organization.
Somebody above them thoughtsomething in these folks that
said they're going to be a greatleader.
If you're going to trust themwith that kind of responsibility
, why would you not trust themto give input on the future of
the organization?
(28:40):
Correct, they have an input.
The more eyes, from aleadership perspective, you have
on this, the better positionyou're going to be on getting it
right, because you're attackingone issue from 20 different
points of view.
The more leaders are involved,the better.
Pete Newsome (28:56):
Perfect, and one of the things that's on this is
to avoid is having a small poolof perspective leaders, and one
of the themes when we do thesepodcasts you never really know
where we're going to end up.
Right, we have a starting point, but the finish line sometimes
looks entirely different, andone of the themes I think
(29:17):
through our conversation todayhas been there's value in
looking internally and there'svalue and necessity to look
externally, so you have to doboth if you're really going to
do it right, and that's a pointwe wanted to make in this blog
article.
Hopefully it came across, butthat's just coincidentally,
that's been a recurring themethrough our conversation today.
Ricky Baez (29:41):
So I've been waiting for you to hit on that one,
because having a small pool ofpotential candidates, that is
the equivalent of shootingyourself in the foot.
Right, because you have to makea decision.
Right, if you have a small poolof potential candidates, then
what are you doing to get themready?
How are you hiring?
Right, because this goes backto the hiring piece.
(30:01):
Right, if you see somebody, ifyou're interviewing somebody
that is perfect for the currentrole, but they're years away
from being a leader, you have tomake a decision about what.
If you hire that person, howmuch is it going to cost and
time and money because time ismoney to get that person trained
up.
So you have to know what thatis, what that threshold is, and
(30:24):
maybe put a succession plan inplace where there is an MIT, a
manager in training program thatgives people the fundamentals
of leadership to bring them tothe very bottom, at the least,
the minimum fundamentals thatthey need to be in the
succession planning process.
That is crucial right there, tomake sure that you make a
decision how you want to trainand how much money you want to
(30:45):
spend to bring them up to speedlater on.
Pete Newsome (30:47):
I love it.
There's more in the blog.
There's tools listed, there'sother resources.
Rick, you will put your contactinformation in the show notes
and, of course, the link to thearticle, but I think that's a
great place to stop becausewe've really put a bow around it
.
I didn't say our other phrasetoday.
I avoided it.
We'll skip it for one week, butthis has been great.
(31:10):
Thank you so much If you'velistened this far.
Thanks for joining us, asalways, and we'll talk to you
very soon.
Be back next week, ricky, thankyou.
Ricky Baez (31:19):
Thank you very much, Pete.
Have a good one, folks.
See you in a few.
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