January 5, 2022 • 41 mins
Napoleon, was he hero or villain? An enlightened genius or supreme egotist? Superb diplomat or an immoral usurper? All of the above? Continuing with Part II of our Napoleon series, we take a closer look into his greatest achievements as well as his greatest mistakes. From his coronation as Emperor at Notre-Dame in 1804 to his loss at Waterloo in 1815, this man’s story is seemingly inexhaustible. Has the world ever seen his equal either before or since? We’ll leave that for you to decide.
Notes:
- Though buried at St. Helena's when he died in 1821, by 1840 Napoleon's legacy was such that some two decades later he was brought back to France in 1840 with great ceremony of state and placed in the Hotel des Invalides where he still resides.
Books:
- The Congress of Vienna: A Study of Allied Unity: 1812-1822 by Harold Nicolson
- Dictionary of the Napoleonic Wars by David C. Chandler
- Europe: From the Renaissance to Waterloo by Robert Ergang
- The Napoleonic Wars by Richard Holmes
- Napoleon: A Life by Andrew Roberts
- Napoleon: A Concise Biography by David A. Bell
Film:
- Napoleon (2003 TV Miniseries) staring Christian Clavier
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rebecca (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Season Two of Historically
Speaking Podcast, uncommonhistory with an unconventional
pair.
I'm Rebecca Robbins.
Kim (00:17):
and I'm Kim Kimmel.
Rebecca (00:19):
I'm a singer and actor,
Kim (00:21):
And I'm a retired history teacher.
Rebecca (00:23):
He was my history teacher in college,
Kim (00:25):
And now we've been married for 22 years.
Rebecca (00:28):
Sometimes quirky, sometimes obscure,
Kim (00:31):
But this is the kind of history you'll actually want to
remember.
Rebecca (00:41):
Hello and welcome to Episode 37 of Historically
Speaking Podcast and a veryhappy New Year to all of our
listeners.
Kim (00:50):
Yes.
A happy New Year.
Rebecca (00:51):
Happy 2022.
Kim (00:53):
Yes.
Hopefully this will be a betteryear than 2021 or 2020.
Rebecca (00:57):
You took the words right out of my mouth.
Yes.
Let's hope.
(Yeah.) But continuing on ourlast topic in 2021,(right) we
are returning again to Napoleon.
Kim (01:12):
Yes.
To Napoleon.
Rebecca (01:13):
Part two.
(Yes.) bSo let's set the stageof where we are.
Kim (01:17):
Well, we were in his Consulate Period, which exists
from 1799 to 1 804.
And we covered a lot of hisachievements as First Consul.
U h, the Legion of Honorcreation, the Banque de F rance,
the Concordat w ith the Papacy,the Code Napoleon.
I m ean, he does a lot ofthings.
(01:38):
He also wins military victories.
U h,
Rebecca (01:41):
Would you say this is his most active period or
Kim (01:44):
I think, uh,(his greatest achievements?) most historians
think it's his most productiveperiod.
Rebecca (01:48):
Okay.
(Okay.)That makes sense.
Kim (01:50):
Where he made the greatest contributions.
Yes.
Rebecca (01:53):
So it's downhill from here.
Kim (01:55):
Uh, I suppose that's a way you could put it, uh, it's a
long downhill.
I would like to mention twothings that still occur while
Napoleon is First Consul beforehe becomes Emperor.
Rebecca (02:08):
Okay.
Kim (02:08):
The first is that from 1802 to 1803, for about a year,
England and France were atpeace.
They actually, uh, signed atreaty called the Treaty of
Amiens.
I think both sides wereexhausted after 10 years of war
and(understandable) I believeboth sides understood it was
just a truce, not a true, uh,peace, but the Treaty of Amiens
(02:32):
ended conflict temporarilybetween France and England.
The second, and this is reallyimportant, the second really
huge thing that we have not yetmentioned about Napoleon while
First Consul is something thathas nothing to do with Europe,
but everything to do with NorthAmerica.
(Hmm) I am referring to theLouisiana Purchase.
Rebecca (02:57):
Oh yes.
Kim (02:58):
Yes.
The greatest exchange ofterritory in the entire French
revolutionary and Napoleonicperiod is the Louisiana
Purchase, which turned out to beenormously beneficial to the
young United States of America.
Just a little background.
Rebecca (03:14):
Oh, excellent.
Kim (03:15):
Yes.
I know how you love background.
Rebecca (03:17):
Ya know,
Kim (03:17):
I know.
France controlled a huge area,what is now Canada.
They controlled the middle areaof what is now the United States
between the Appalachians and theRocky Mountains, which were
originally called the StonyMountains.
And that area, uh, was calledLouisiana, but France lost
everything on the continent of,North America and the French and
(03:40):
Indian War.
So by 1763, France had no moreterritory left on the continent
of North America, but a yearbefore the Treaty Paris, which
ended that war, Francetransferred the western part of
Louisiana, that is to say thearea from the Mississippi River
to the Rockies, to Spain.
Rebecca (04:03):
Oh, to Spain?
Kim (04:03):
It was a secret treaty.
Yes.
Rebecca (04:05):
Did they get money in return for this?
Kim (04:07):
No, it was just a thank you to Spain because Spain had sided
with France against England and,uh, both sides, uh, both Spain
and France knew that, uh, Spainwas about to lose the Floridas
to Britain.
And so the western portion ofLouisiana in the secret Treaty
of Fontainebleau the year beforethe French and Indian War ended
(04:27):
was transferred to Spain.
Now let's flash flash forwardthe 1800.
Rebecca (04:33):
I love that.
Kim (04:33):
Okay.
Napoleon as First Consul in 1800through the secret Treaty of San
Ildefonso got Spain toretrograde or retrocede this
portion of Louisiana.
Rebecca (04:49):
So in other words, give it back.
Kim (04:50):
Right.
To give it back to France.
Now,
Rebecca (04:53):
Now why would they do that?
Kim (04:55):
Well,
Rebecca (04:55):
Just to be nice?
Kim (04:56):
Spain at this time was in a very subservient position to
France.
And Napoleon also promised thatif Spain retroceded, western
Louisiana to France, he wouldensure that the Spanish family
would acquire territory inItaly.
Of course he never followedthrough on that promise, but
(05:17):
Napoleon didn't follow throughon many promises.
I might also add he cheated atcards.
.
Rebecca (05:23):
How dare he!
Kim (05:24):
Even his own mother Napoleon's own mother chastised
him for cheating at cards.
So Napoleon's promises were, uh,not to be
Rebecca (05:33):
Pretty cheap.
Kim (05:34):
Well, yeah, you had to take them with a grain of salt and
then some.
Anyway, through this secrettreaty Louisiana, that portion,
which was west of theMississippi, was retroceded to
France on the condition thateither France would keep it or
give it back to Spain.
Napoleon promised that he wouldnever give it to a third party.
Rebecca (05:55):
Oh, I see where this is going.
Kim (05:58):
Yes.
So, what happened was Jeffersonwas inaugurated president in
March of 1801 following JohnAdams.
Rebecca (06:06):
Right.
Kim (06:06):
And within a short period of time of Thomas Jefferson
becoming president by say May of1801, knowledge of t his secret
treaty, b ecause let's face it,diplomatic secrets get out
pretty easily.
Knowledge of this secret treatycame to Jefferson's attention.
Now keep in mind, ThomasJefferson had always been pro F
(06:28):
rench and anti B ritish.
A ll r ight.
He had been our Minister t oFrance at the beginning of the
French Revolution.
In fact, one of the most visitedp laces in Paris at the
beginning of the FrenchRevolution was Thomas
Jefferson's residence.
And he s poke perfect French.
The, u h, French adored him asthey did Benjamin Franklin.
(06:48):
But even though Jefferson was alifelong antagonist toward the
British and was very pro French.
Once he found out about thissecret treaty in early 1801,
just a couple months into hispresidency, he said, if this is
true, we must wed ourselves tothe British fleet.
Cuz he understood that ifNapoleon who was extraordinarily
(07:12):
powerful France, which wasextraordinarily powerful, as
opposed to a very weakened Spaincontrolling t he huge area,
which stretched up into Canada,that it would be very
deleterious to Americaninterests.
So he hastened off the newambassador t o France, Robert
(07:32):
Livingston to.
Rebecca (07:33):
Mr.
Livingston, I presume.
Kim (07:34):
What's that?
That's a different Livingston.
Rebecca (07:36):
Okay.
Kim (07:36):
Robert Livingston was hastened off to France to find
out if this was true.
And if it was true, Livingstonwas told to ask for, um, passage
on the Mississippi River and tobuy the city of New Orleans.
Uh, these negotiations draggedthroughout 1802.
(07:57):
Talleyrand at this time isNapoleon's foreign minister.
By early 1803, Thomas Jeffersonsent another ambassador, a
plenipotentiary ambassador,James Monroe, the future fifth
President of the United Statesto help Livingston in these
negotiations.
Well, Monroe no sooner arrivesin Paris in early 1803 then
(08:21):
Talleyrand approaches bothLivingston and Monroe and says,
how would you like to buy all ofLouisiana?
Rebecca (08:30):
Now why would he offer that?
Kim (08:32):
There's a reason for this.
(Okay.) Napoleon, uh, at thattime had attempted to control,
uh, Hispaniola.
What is now the DominicanRepublic and Haiti.
Okay.
And it was under French controland there was a great revolt
against French rule on thatisland.
It was led by a brilliant blackleader Toussaint Louverture.
(08:56):
Napoleon sent thousands andthousands of French troops to
the island.
They died of yellow fever indroves.
It was a disaster for France.
Napoleon concluded that if hedidn't sell Louisiana, the
British would take it anywaywith their fleet.
So he figured he might as wellget out while the getting was
good.
(Okay.) And this helps toexplain why Talleyrand
(09:20):
approached Livingston andMonroe, this is while Napoleon
is still First Consul in early1803 and said, how would you
like to buy all of thisterritory?
Now, I think it's important forour listeners to understand that
Louisiana territory was farlarger than just the state of
Louisiana and Jefferson hadqualms about it, cuz there's
nothing in the Constitution thatallows for the acquisition of
(09:42):
additional territory, but heburied those qualms, put the
treaty before the Senate, it waspassed and overnight the United
States was doubled.
Rebecca (09:51):
For how much?
Kim (09:52):
Not that much.
It's one of the best real estatedeals in history, 15 million
dollars or thereabouts that'sit, it works out to a couple
pennies per acre.
Overnight, the United Stateswent from being a political
entity from the Atlantic to theMississippi, to a political
entity from the Atlantic to theRockies.
(10:13):
And this would include futurestates, not only
Rebecca (10:15):
And not much of area was settled, right?
Kim (10:17):
Oh, almost nothing was settled.
And at the same time, Lewis andClark would begin their
expedition the whole way to thePacific.
Just about that same time, thewhole Lewis and Clark
expedition, we could do a wholepodcast on that.
Rebecca (10:29):
Oh yeah, we could.
Kim (10:30):
Oh, yes it's endless what we can do podcasts on.
Rebecca (10:33):
It, it kind of is.
Kim (10:34):
Anyway, so the United States, this young country
acquires an area that doublesthe size of the United States.
Okay.
And that happened when Napoleonwas First Consul.
In May of 1804, Napoleon becameEmperor.
Rebecca (10:50):
Now who decided that?
Kim (10:52):
Uh, he put it to a vote to the French people and they
overwhelmingly approved of itbecause Napoleon by this time,
as we mentioned last time,
Rebecca (10:59):
Like, do you wanna make me emperor?
Yes or no.
Kim (11:02):
Yes.
And it was overwhelming thatthey wanted to make him Emperor.
And so he goes from being FirstConsul.
Rebecca (11:08):
I mean, what difference does it make really?
Kim (11:10):
Power wise?
Not that much, but uh,(it's thetitle), a lot of symbolism in
this and so on.
Now he's royalty and all ofthat.
And in December of 1804.
Rebecca (11:21):
And he's still married to Josephine at this point?
Kim (11:23):
He's still married to Josephine.
In December of 1804, December2nd, to be exact, uh, he would
be crowned Emperor and Pope Piusthe Seventh would attend that
ceremony in order to furthervalidate his Emperorship.
But at the precise moment, whenPius the Seventh was supposed to
place the crown, the emperor'scrown on his head Napoleon took
(11:47):
the crown himself and placed iton his head.
The implication of course was noone crowns Napoleon except
Napoleon and Josephine was crownEmpress.
You know what else isinteresting too?
He wasn't crowned Emperor ofFrance, he was crowned Emperor
of the French.
And the reason why this isimportant is because by that
(12:10):
time, France was acquiringterritory in Italy, even in the
Balkans and so on, which wouldbe part of the great French
Empire.
So Napoleon didn't want to bejust Emperor of France.
He wanted to be Emperor of theFrench Empire.
Rebecca (12:26):
He wanted it all.
Kim (12:28):
He wanted it all.
It's uh, it's an amazing event.
Rebecca (12:32):
So at this point things are going pretty well for him.
Kim (12:34):
Yeah.
And he's still in his midthirties.
Rebecca (12:36):
Wow.
Kim (12:37):
Yeah.
Wow.
All right, now he's Emperor.
Well, he is gotta fight morewars.
Okay.
(Shocking.) This is the war ofthe Third Coalition.
So he takes on Austria at thebattle of Austerlitz on December
2nd, 1805, one year to the daysince he was crowned Emperor,
and many historians, I thinkmost historians, think that
(12:57):
Austerlitz, which is, uh,located in what is now the Czech
Republic, in Moravia, is hissingle greatest victory.
This is where he shows hisbrilliance more than any other.
I don't wanna go into thedetails of the Pratzen Heights
and all that(good idea,) but hecompletely fools the Austrians
and the Russians, it's adevastating defeat for the
Austrians, Austrians and theRussians.
(13:18):
And it's a great victory.
And he knocks Austria out of thewar.
Then in 1806, Prussia comes intothe war and he knocks Prussia
out of the war at the, uh, dualbattles of Jena and Auerstedt in
October of 1806.
So he's just winning any onething after another.
In 1806, many other thingsoccur.
(13:39):
For instance, Napoleon createdsomething called the
Confederation of the Rhine.
This was a political entity of16 German states.
Mostly in western Germany.
The Confederation of the Rhinewas basically a satellite of
France.
It was just to the east ofFrance.
It was composed of 16 Germanstates that would be aligned
with France, supply troops tothe French military, and so on.
(14:02):
At the same time as theConfederation of the Rhine was
created just the very nextmonth, the Holy Roman Empire was
dissolved by Napoleon(uh oh) uh,oh, now the Holy Roman Empire is
the First Reich in Germanhistory.
It began on Christmas day in theyear 800 when Charlemagne was
crowned Emperor by Pope Leo III.
(14:24):
This was a conscious attempt inthe early middle ages to
recreate the ancient westernhalf of the Roman Empire, which
had fallen into complete decayby the end of the fifth century.
The Holy Roman Empire would last1,006 years from 800
Rebecca (14:42):
That's a pretty good track record.
Kim (14:43):
Pretty good track record at certain points in time,
especially in the Medievalperiod, it had some very
powerful monarchs like Henry IIIor Frederick Barbarossa or
Frederick II.
But by the 18th century, theHoly Roman Empire was a shadow
of its former self.
And that's why Voltaire thegreat French philosoph said that
the Holy Roman Empire wasneither Holy nor Roman nor an
(15:06):
Empire.
And so this shell of what wasonce a very powerful entity was
officially dissolved by Napoleonin August of 1806.
Just one more thing that he doesand Francis the Second of the
Holy Roman Empire becomesEmperor Francis I of Austria.
Rebecca (15:25):
Okay.
So that's a nice consolationprize.
Kim (15:28):
And as I mentioned, uh, Napoleon heated, the Prussians
at Jena and Auerstedt in Octoberof 1806 and he enters Berlin.
Napoleon in Berlin.
And, uh, he really punishes thePrussians.
The next year in 1807 he meetsanother formidable adversary.
This Tzar Alexander I.
He meets him at Tilsit, uh, onthe Neman River.
(15:51):
In fact, they actually built araft where the two emperors
would meet one another.
Rebecca (15:56):
Oh.
So they actually met, theydidn't meet in battle.
Kim (15:58):
They, they actually formally met.
It was on a raft in the NemanRiver, uh, Alexander I and
Napoleon who had been enemiesreconciled with one another.
Alexander was actually veryimpress with Napoleon.
Napoleon could be very charmingand very gracious when he wanted
to be.
He also could be very mean andout of control.
(16:21):
I mean, he actually would kickpeople at times and things like
that,(charming).
Yes, he had issues(I'll say),but he had great abilities.
One of the major reasons whyNapoleon met Alexander was not
only to knock Alexander out ofthe war in Russia, which he did,
but because of something else,and this gets to the Berlin and
(16:43):
Milan decrees issued by Napoleonin 1806 and 1807, respectively.
Napoleon's most inveterate enemywas England, he couldn't defeat
them.
Trafalgar had knocked out theFranco-Spanish fleet in October
of 1805.
I mean we've covered Trafalgaron many occasions, 33
(17:04):
Franco-Spanish ships against 27British ships led by Viscount
(Lord) Nelson, right.
And the British didn't lose asingle ship and the
Franco-Spanish fleet lost 18.
So Napoleon realized he wasbottled up on the continent and
couldn't take on the BritishNavy.
So he decided that he would tryto destroy England economically.
(17:25):
This is known as the ContinentalSystem.
The Continental System, asevidenced by the Berlin and
Milan decrees issued by Napoleonsaid that any neutral ship that
would be trading with Britaincould be seized.
Rebecca (17:38):
Oh, that's huge.
Kim (17:39):
Oh, it's huge.
Absolutely.
It's huge.
For instance, the young Americannation, which was so dependent
on shipping, if they compliedwith, if they traded with
Britain, they could be seized byNapoleon's, uh, Navy.
Now the British responded in1807 with Orders in Council,
which said that if you adhere tothe Berlin and Milan decrees
(18:00):
we'll seize your ships,
Rebecca (18:02):
Haha, take that.
Kim (18:04):
So, you see a nation like America.
If they traded with Britain,Napoleon would go after them.
If they traded with France,Britain would go after them.
This led President ThomasJefferson to have the Embargo
Act enacted, uh, which said thatwe'll just keep all American
ships in American ports and wewon't trade with either.
(18:25):
Well.
Rebecca (18:26):
That doesn't work out very well, does it?
Kim (18:27):
It didn't work out.
This is probably Jefferson'swork decision and talk about,
you know, cutting off your noseto spite your face.
But Napoleon attempted todestroy Britain economically
since he couldn't destroy themmilitarily, especially with
respect to their Navy.
And when he's meeting withAlexander at, uh, Tilsit, this
is all part of what Alexanderagrees to.
(18:49):
Also in 1807 at Tilsit Napoleon,uh, creates another kingdom
called Westphalia.
He made his brother, Jerome,king of Westphalia.
He originally made Joseph hisolder brother King of Naples.
Now Joseph will shortly becomeKing of Spain.
His brother L ewis will becomeking of Holland.
Mentioning Spain takes me to thefirst of Napoleons two great
(19:13):
mistakes.
The Continental Systemestablished by Napoleon whereby
no European nation was allowedto trade with Britain was not
adhered to by Portugal.
Portugal has always been a verytough nation t hough w as small
nation.
And the oldest alliance in thehistory of Europe, which i s
still existent to this day isthe Anglo-Portuguese alliance of
the 14th century.
(19:35):
(Ah- h a) Portugal refused to goalong with Napoleon's
Continental System.
So, Napoleon was going to showthem a lesson.
He invaded Portugal goingthrough Spain i nto Portugal
because Portugal was loyal toBritain, was l oyal t o England.
This is the beginning of what isknown as the Peninsular War,
(19:57):
which will last from 1 807 to1814.
Rebecca (20:00):
That's a long time.
Kim (20:01):
That's a long time and, uh, the greatest work on(with such a
small country).
Well, the Peninsular War willalso expand into fighting the
Spanish, which I'll get into injust a moment, not just
Portugal.
Sir Charles Oman, a greatEnglish historian wrote a lot in
the middle ages.
He wrote a seven volume historyof the Peninsular War, about 700
(20:23):
pages each, published between1902 and 1930, took him 28 years
to write it.
Rebecca (20:29):
That will not be on my reading list this year.
Kim (20:31):
Well, you know, it's funny, you mentioned that cuz I was
thinking about getting that foryou as a Christmas present.
Rebecca (20:37):
Oh well Christmas is already over.
Kim (20:39):
Oh I(maybe next year) I thought you might have just
devoured volume after volumewith great relish.
Rebecca (20:44):
I mean, why do that when I'm gonna just have you
tell me about it.
Kim (20:49):
In any case, this was a great mistake by Napoleon and
then the next year in 1808, bythe way, the Portuguese Royal
family made it out of Portugal,just barely accompanied by the
British fleet, with thePortuguese fleet to the Vice
Royalty of Brazil, which wascontrolled by Portugal.
So, Napoleon wasn't able tocapture the Portuguese, uh,(good
(21:12):
for them,) royal family.
And the very next year heencouraged both, uh, King
Charles the Fourth and his son,the future Ferdinand the Seventh
to abdicate.
And this is when he made hisbrother Joseph King of Spain.
Rebecca (21:25):
He encouraged them?
(He twisted) sounds like aeuphemism to me.
Kim (21:29):
He twisted some arms here.
Rebecca (21:31):
All the way off probably.
Kim (21:32):
And the Spanish did not want Joseph Napoleon, Joseph
Bonaparte as what?
Rebecca (21:38):
Why would they?
Kim (21:39):
Yeah, why would they?
So what happens is both thePortuguese and the Spanish
people rise up against theFrench and the British
eventually send a great general,Arthur Wellesley, the future
Duke of Wellington to fightthem.
And he will lead a combinedAnglo-Portuguese, Spanish force
(22:00):
for years in the IberianPeninsula.
It is replete with battle afterbattle, story after story.
It's a fascinating tale.
You sure you don't want thatseven volume Sir Charles Oman
work?
.
Rebecca (22:14):
Uh, I'll get back to you by next Christmas.
Kim (22:17):
And uh, Napoleon referred to it as his, as his ulcer.
Uh, I, he made a great mistakegoing into, uh, Spain and
Portugal and it will lastvirtually to the end of his, uh,
emperorship.
Napoleon in 1808, met Alexanderagain at Erfurt.
This is the last time Alexander,this our Alexander and Napoleon
(22:39):
will meet.
Napoleon will take on Austria inyet another war in 1809 and
defeat them at Wagram.
Napoleon will actually enterVienna, Napoleon's all over the
place.
He's in Berlin, he's in Vienna.
This is one of the mostextraordinary lives I've ever
studied.
Rebecca (22:55):
This guy got around.
Kim (22:56):
And he wins battle after battle.
I mean, the man was a militarygenius.
By this time Josephine, it wasclear, uh, she could not bear
any children to Napoleon.
So he decided to divorce her.
She agreed to it with tears, butshe agreed to it.
Rebecca (23:11):
What a jerk.
Kim (23:12):
And he married Marie Louise , the daughter of the Austrian
Emperor by which he would have ason, the so called Napoleon II.
Napoleon also had mistress.
He had a very famous(I'mshocked!) Polish mistress and so
on.
Yeah.
Napoleon got around in more waysthan one.
Rebecca (23:29):
I guess so.
Kim (23:30):
Right.
Oh, by the way, uh, in 1807, healso created the small Dutchy of
Warsaw because Poland had beencompletely extinguished in the
18th century through the threepartitions of 1772, 1793 and
1795 by Austria, Prussia andRussia.
So a lot of Poles admiredNapoleon.
(23:51):
He,
Rebecca (23:52):
Because he created Warsaw?
Kim (23:53):
Uh, he created Dutchy of Warsaw.
He was pro Polish as a counteragainst Russia, as a counter
against Russia.
And there were many Poles, manycavalry, many infantry men who
fought in the French armybecause there was a tremendous,
uh, affection there for whatNapoleon did for, for Poland.
(24:14):
So, Napoleon by 1810 is themaster of Europe.
I mean, he has everyone
Rebecca (24:20):
But it's not enough.
Kim (24:22):
It's not enough.
And don't forget, he's still atwar with,(in the Iberian
Peninsula) with, with Britain,Napoleon understood that his
greatest enemy w ere t heBritish.
And as you move into 1810, 1811,u h, Czar Alexander was getting
very tired of the ContinentalSystem, the economic blockade of
England and so o n c uz it washurting Russian commerce, and
(24:45):
Napoleon got more and moreirritated with Alexander and
this comes t o Napoleon's secondgreat mistake.
He decided i n 1812 to invadeRussia.
Rebecca (24:58):
Big mistake.
Kim (24:59):
Now folks, I gotta tell you invading Russia is one of
easily, the 10 worst ideas ever,(ever) right.
Because the Russians are a verycourageous people.
They're a very tough people.
They also have a country whichis vast.
They suck you into their countryand let you take more and more
territory, and they wait untilthe winter hits.
Rebecca (25:22):
And then they just wait i t out.
Kim (25:23):
And then, well they oftentimes attack cuz they're
very good winter fighters.
Uh, no question about it.
Napoleon won a preliminarybrutal battle at, uh, Borodino
on September 7th, 1812, about ahundred miles west of Moscow.
A week later, he will enterMoscow.
Napoleon will come into Moscow,but as he and his troops are
(25:46):
coming into Moscow, a great firebreaks out.
We don't know who set this fire,if it was deliberate or
whatever,
Rebecca (25:52):
I was just gonna say, scorched earth.
Kim (25:53):
Three quarters of Moscow was destroyed.
(Wow.) I'd also like to mentionthis just about Napoleon's
invasion of Russia.
Militarily, a large army in the18th century was 40-50,000.
I mentioned this in a previouspodcast, George Washington never
commanded more than 20,000troops at one time.
Napoleon invaded Russia with600,000 troops.
Rebecca (26:15):
Where did he get'em?
Kim (26:17):
Well, he got them from France.
He got them from theConfederation of the Rhine.
He got them from allies,reluctant allies like Prussia
from Austria, but he invadedRussia with this huge...
nobody had seen an army this bigin history, but he enters Moscow
in mid-October of 1812.
(26:38):
Most of the city burns down.
I'm sorry.
He enters in September and bymid-October he decides to leave
Moscow because Czar Alexanderthe First who he thought would
negotiate with him is silent anddoesn't do anything.
Rebecca (26:53):
Where is he at this point?
Kim (26:55):
He's someplace outside of Moscow.
(St.
Petersburg?) And he refuses tonegotiate with Napoleon.
So Napoleon enters Moscow in midSeptember in mid-October he
decides to retreat and theretreat is a disaster.
Hundreds of thousands ofsoldiers will starve to death,
freeze to death.
Some will be taken prisoner byRussian troops.
(27:16):
Napoleon eventually makes itback to France in December of
1812 with maybe perhaps 20,000troops(out of all of those?) Out
of 600,000.
Yeah, it was estimated that onlyone to two thousand were really
ready for battle by the time topull you makes it back, but he's
still alive and he's stillconfident.
(27:38):
And.
Rebecca (27:39):
How can he be confident after a big loss like that?
(Uh) I mean the human lifealone.
Kim (27:45):
Napoleon, uh, assembled yet another army.
And as you move into 1813, youhave another coalition against
Napoleon, the English.
Eventually the Prussians, theAustrians, the Russians and
Napoleon fights some of his mostbrilliant battles in this 1813,
1814 period.
(28:06):
Even though he is on thedefensive even, uh, many, uh,
adversaries, like Wellingtonsaid, some of his most brilliant
battles were fought when he hadso few troops.
Uh, this, this is a man ofgenius.
There was a great battle foughtin October of 1813.
It was a four day battle,October 16th to October 19th,
(28:27):
1813.
It's known as the battle of thenations at Leipzig.
Napoleon lost.
Rebecca (28:31):
Dun dun dun.
Kim (28:32):
Yes, this was the great battle at that time.
And Napoleon retreated back intoFrance.
Now what's interesting here isthat Napoleon was still so
feared and so respected that inNovember of 1813, even though
the disaster in Russia hadoccurred, even though the battle
of Leipzig had occurred, therewas something known as the
(28:53):
Frankfurt proposals put forwardby his enemies.
They would leave Napoleon inpower as Emperor.
They would leave him with thenatural frontiers of France,
which were bigger than theancient frontiers, which would
include say for instance,Belgium.
Napoleon hesitated.
It was a fatal hesitation.
If he had accepted this, hecould have remained as Emperor
of France with an expandedFrance, but he decided he could
(29:17):
get an even better deal bycontinuing to defeat his enemies
in battle.
So we move into 1814, where hecontinues to fight battles, but
eventually loses.
And in April of 1814 with theTreaty of Fontainebleau, he
abdicates and he abdicates...
Rebecca (29:34):
He realizes there's no place for him to go.
Kim (29:36):
His, his, his marshals, his generals told him there's no
hope left.
In fact, by the time heabdicated on April 11th, 1814,
Czar Alexander, FrederickWilliam III of Prussia were
already in Paris.
(Oh wow.) Yeah.
So Napoleon had nowhere to turn.
A deal was made.
(29:57):
There was still this greatrespect for Napoleon.
So he would be made emperor ofthe little island of Elba.
Rebecca (30:03):
Oh, the Emperor of Elba,
Kim (30:04):
The Emperor of Elba.
Uh, this is his firstabdication.
There's gonna be two of them.
And he abdicated in April of, uh, 1814 and was made Emperor of
Elba.
Elba is a small island off thewest coast of Italy.
It's about 80, 90 square miles.
And he was made Emperor of thissmall island.
He could take about a thousandtroops with him and so on.
(30:27):
And the Bourbon dynasty cameback in, uh, the form of Louis
the 18th and was reestablishedin Paris.
And then the Congress of Viennabegins to occur from September
of 1814 to June of 1815, wherelots of things will be decided,
the creation of a kingdom of theNetherlands, the German
Confederation, uh, a Polanddependent on Russia, an
(30:50):
independent city of Krakow.
There's a lot of things that itdealt with the slave trade, um,
Jewish rights in Germany andelsewhere.
Now Napoleon's watching all thison Elba from 1814 into early
Rebecca (31:03):
Well, he's not really watching the news.
Kim (31:06):
He's getting all this information from different
sources while he's on Elba.
Rebecca (31:09):
Now, is anybody watching him?
Kim (31:11):
Yes, there was
Rebecca (31:12):
But they're letting this information come and go.
Kim (31:14):
Well, this information came to him, nonetheless in late
1814, early 1815, he got a lotof information to the effect
that the restored Bourbondynasty, uh, there was a lot of
resentment about it, et cetera,even though Louis the 18th, who
I think was a pretty shrewd guy.
So Napoleon decides in lateFebruary of 1815, while all
(31:35):
these enemies of Napoleon aremeeting at Vienna, the Congress
of Vienna, he decides to make acomeback.
This is known as The HundredDays.
Rebecca (31:45):
So the troops that were watching him, guarding him
Kim (31:49):
Well there's no troops really watching him, the British
Navy, had a couple ships thereand so on.
I mean, there was, there wasvery few and he had about a
thousand men on Elba, but helands in France on March 1st of
1815.
Rebecca (32:02):
So he just up and leaves?
Kim (32:03):
Yep.
He just secretly ups and leaves.
Rebecca (32:05):
Nobody stops him.
Kim (32:07):
He, um, escaped, uh, the British fleet.
Yes.
(Hmm) And he lands in France andhe's hailed by many, including
some of his former marshals likeNey who said that, no, I will, I
will put Napoleon in a cage.
But as soon as they met him,that charm, he had that persona
he had, they decided to sidewith him.
(32:29):
And so Napoleon makes his wayback into Paris.
Louis, the 18th flees in thebaggage train of the Allies,
getting out of France andNapoleon swears that he only
wants peace, that he will just,
Rebecca (32:41):
Who's gonna believe him at this point?
Kim (32:43):
Right, who's gonna believe Napoleon at this time.
And so the, um, enemies ofNapoleon, uh, Austria, Prussia,
Russia, and Britain renew theirTreaty of Chaumont that they had
made in March of 1814.
They swear to stay together forat least 20 years.
They will not deal with him.
They actually officially declarehim an outlaw.
Notice before
Rebecca (33:04):
So, there's like wanted posters all over Europe?
Kim (33:07):
Well, I don't know if there were wanted posters or whatever,
but remember they were ready togive him France with the
Frankfurt proposals of Novemberof 1813.
Now, they don't want negotiatewith him at all.
Rebecca (33:17):
Why would they?
Kim (33:17):
Right.
And so Napoleon decides beforeRussia and Austria can get their
troops together.
He will go after British andPrussian troops.
And he goes northward into whatis now Belgium.
And he wins a couple preliminaryvictories, but at Waterloo on
June 18th, 1815, the Britishcommander Wellington and the
(33:42):
Prussian commander Blücherdefeat Napoleon in his last
battle.
So Napoleon met his Waterloo atWaterloo.
(That's very clever.) And hegoes back to Paris.
He abdicates a second time.
The Prussians wanted to killhim.
If Blücher had gotten a hold ofNapoleon.
They would've shot him.
So Napoleon throws himself uponthe British, who he referred to
(34:02):
as his most inveterate and
Rebecca (34:04):
Did he and Wellington ever meet personally?
Kim (34:06):
Not that I know of, no.
Uhuh, I don't believe.
I mean, they were in the fieldof battle and they would've seen
each other at Waterloo, but Idon't think they ever personally
met.
I know of no evidence aboutthat.
And so this time the British aregiven the thankless task of
dealing with Napoleon.
(34:27):
And this time they send him notto some place in the
Mediterranean, they send him toone of the most remote places on
the planet, St.
Helena in the south Atlantic,thousands of miles in the middle
of nowhere, I mean, 1,200 milesoff the African coast, a
thousand miles or more off thesouth American coast.
Rebecca (34:47):
How did they think of that?
Kim (34:48):
I don't know.
Uh, the decision, uh, at thattime, uh, Lord Liverpool was the
Prime Minister.
It was probably discussed by himand Castlereagh his Foreign
Secretary and others and theydecided to send him to St.
Helena.
And he would remain the last sixyears of his life in this
extraordinarily isolated place.
Rebecca (35:10):
But it was inhabited.
Kim (35:11):
Oh yes.
It's still inhabited.
There's about, uh, four or 5,000people there.
It's, it's part of the remnantof the British empire.
It's still, it's still part, uh,it's still owned by Britain.
And it's about twice the size ofManhattan.
(That's a good size.) I've seenthe photos and such, I mean, it
looks like a beautiful place.
It's quite mountainous and soon.
But Napoleon was given a mansioncalled Longwood.
(35:35):
He was irritated by the factthat they wouldn't call him
Emperor, but only General.
Rebecca (35:39):
He should be glad that they at least called him that.
Kim (35:41):
Well, I'm absolutely convinced that if the Prussians
or even the Austrians had gottena hold of him, they, they
would've shot him.
So, uh, Napoleon spent the lastsix years of his life at St.
Helena learning
Rebecca (35:54):
Did his wife join him?
Kim (35:56):
No, Marie Louise did not join him.
She actually took up a lover.
(Oh, there you go.) And his, uh,young son would die at the age
of 21.
Uh, the so-called Napoleon theSecond and Napoleon would spend
his last six years on St.
Helena surrounded by some of hismost, uh, most faithful
(36:16):
servants.
And in 1821 at the age of 51, hewould die of stomach cancer.
Rebecca (36:23):
What a life though, 51 years are like a hundred in
regular people terms.
Kim (36:27):
The man packed centuries of living into half a century.
He is one of the mostextraordinary persons I've ever
studied.
I think Alexis de Tocquevillethe great a French, uh,
politician and author who wrotethe most astute work on America
ever written, I think he summedup Napoleon best.
He said of Napoleon, he was asgreat as a man could be without
(36:51):
morality.
I think that captures Napoleon.
He had great gifts.
He was a genius militarily.
He had administrative talents ofthe first order.
He was shrewd.
Rebecca (37:03):
So why would you say he had no morality?
Kim (37:06):
Oh, he would lie regularly.
He would betray people.
He would, uh, even with his ownfamily, all right?
I mean, he'd deposed his ownbrother Louis who was king of
Holland.
Um, he, uh, had nothing to dowith Lucian who wouldn't support
him who was another brother.
Napoleon was not someone whocould be trusted.
(37:27):
uh, I think he lackedthe moral touch of a George
Washington and Abraham Lincolnand so on.
If he had had the moral touch ofan Abraham Lincoln, oh my God.
He could have gone down as.
Rebecca (37:39):
Well, if he would have had that moral touch, he
would've never done half of whathe did.
Kim (37:43):
Perhaps.
There's no one quite likeNapoleon in history.
And once again, one of the mostinteresting things about him is
he fights some of his greatestbattles when he's on the
defensive in 1813, 1814.
They're absolutely brilliant.
They're studied to this dayNapoleon's strategy and tactics.
And he was also a master oflogistics.
He knew how to feed his army.
He knew how to equip his army.
(38:04):
He could get from place A, toplace B faster than anybody else
and would surprise his enemiesmany times as he did at
Austerlitz in December of 1805,the man is inexhaustible.
A person could spend the rest oftheir life studying Napoleon.
Rebecca (38:21):
So what is his legacy?
Kim (38:23):
His legacy is mixed.
I mean, he did many great thingslike the Code Napoleon and, um,
educational reforms.
Some of his achievements arereally laudable.
For instance, uh, Napoleon wasnot a snob, no matter how low
you were born, if you showedability, he would raise you up
very high.
(That's impressive.) Yeah, no,he's a, he's really a mixed bag.
(38:47):
I mean, and some of the thingshe destroyed, like, uh, a lot of
futile aspects, et cetera, itwas good that he destroyed it.
But
Rebecca (38:55):
And some of the Bonapartes ended up in
Philadelphia.
Kim (38:58):
That's right.
Joseph Bonaparte, King of Spain,formerly King of Naples ended up
in Philadelphia, right there atEighth Street, close to the
Walnut Street Theatre.
So, uh, one of his brothersJerome, uh, lived to 1860.
(Hmm.) And his mother outlivedhim by 15 years.
There is no one quite likeNapoleon in history.
Rebecca (39:17):
But that's probably a good thing.
Kim (39:19):
Probably a good thing.
Yes.
Just from a sheer intellectualstandpoint, the man is
extraordinary.
Rebecca (39:25):
Well, I'm glad we did this two part series.
Kim (39:27):
I'm glad we did it too.
Rebecca (39:29):
Cuz we certainly could not have crammed it into one.
Kim (39:31):
I don't think so.
No.
And there's a lot of things Ileft out.
(I'm shocked.).
Shocked you say.
So what are we coveringnext?
Rebecca (39:41):
I think next we have something completely different.
Kim (39:44):
Yes, I think we do.
Rebecca (39:45):
And something I really don't know much about.
Kim (39:46):
Well, this is the Scopes Monkey Trial, uh,(which I've
heard of) in the 1920s, ClarenceDarrow, uh, Williams Jennings
Brian, teaching of evolution andall of that.
Rebecca (39:56):
Would you say it changed the world?
Kim (39:58):
Well, I think Napoleon changed the world.
I'm not so sure the Scope'sMonkey Trial changed the world,
but it was a pretty big event.
Rebecca (40:05):
At least in America.
Kim (40:06):
Yeah, well maybe even outside of America, but
certainly in America.
Yeah.
Well, does that, uh, does thatdo it?
Rebecca (40:12):
I think that wraps it up.
Kim (40:14):
Okay then.
Rebecca (40:15):
So again, happy New Year, everyone.
And I hope this is a healthy,happy and very prosperous year
for all of you.
Kim (40:24):
Yes.
I hope 2022 is a better yearthan 2020 or 2021.
Rebecca (40:28):
Has to be.
Kim (40:29):
Well, not necessarily.
.
Rebecca (40:32):
Always the optimist
Kim (40:33):
On that, optimistic note.
Rebecca (40:34):
All right, everyone.
Thanks for listening and untiltime.
Kim (40:37):
All right.
Goodbye.
Rebecca (40:39):
Well, friends here we are at the end of the podcast,
be sure to check out the linksin the show description to find
some of the resources we usedfor this episode.
Also, if you've enjoyedlistening, please head over to
Apple Podcast and give us avirtual high five by leaving us
a five star review.
We'd really appreciate that.
And if you'd like to connectwith us directly, you can find
(41:01):
us athistoricallyspeakingpodcast.com
or follow us on Instagram at@historicallyspeakingpodcast.
That's it for today.
And again, thanks for sharingpart of your day with us.
And remember if you wanna knowwhat the future holds, study the
past.
Hello, and welcome to Season Two of Historically
Speaking Podcast, uncommonhistory with an unconventional
pair.
I'm Rebecca Robbins.
Kim (00:17):
and I'm Kim Kimmel.
Rebecca (00:19):
I'm a singer and actor,
Kim (00:21):
And I'm a retired history teacher.
Rebecca (00:23):
He was my history teacher in college,
Kim (00:25):
And now we've been married for 22 years.
Rebecca (00:28):
Sometimes quirky, sometimes obscure,
Kim (00:31):
But this is the kind of history you'll actually want to
remember.
Rebecca (00:41):
Hello and welcome to Episode 37 of Historically
Speaking Podcast and a veryhappy New Year to all of our
listeners.
Kim (00:50):
Yes.
A happy New Year.
Rebecca (00:51):
Happy 2022.
Kim (00:53):
Yes.
Hopefully this will be a betteryear than 2021 or 2020.
Rebecca (00:57):
You took the words right out of my mouth.
Let's hope.
(Yeah.) But continuing on ourlast topic in 2021,(right) we
are returning again to Napoleon.
Kim (01:12):
Yes.
To Napoleon.
Rebecca (01:13):
Part two.
(Yes.) bSo let's set the stageof where we are.
Kim (01:17):
Well, we were in his Consulate Period, which exists
from 1799 to 1 804.
And we covered a lot of hisachievements as First Consul.
U h, the Legion of Honorcreation, the Banque de F rance,
the Concordat w ith the Papacy,the Code Napoleon.
I m ean, he does a lot ofthings.
(01:38):
He also wins military victories.
U h,
Rebecca (01:41):
Would you say this is his most active period or
Kim (01:44):
I think, uh,(his greatest achievements?) most historians
think it's his most productiveperiod.
Rebecca (01:48):
Okay.
(Okay.)That makes sense.
Kim (01:50):
Where he made the greatest contributions.
Yes.
Rebecca (01:53):
So it's downhill from here.
Kim (01:55):
Uh, I suppose that's a way you could put it, uh, it's a
long downhill.
I would like to mention twothings that still occur while
Napoleon is First Consul beforehe becomes Emperor.
Rebecca (02:08):
Okay.
Kim (02:08):
The first is that from 1802 to 1803, for about a year,
England and France were atpeace.
They actually, uh, signed atreaty called the Treaty of
Amiens.
I think both sides wereexhausted after 10 years of war
and(understandable) I believeboth sides understood it was
just a truce, not a true, uh,peace, but the Treaty of Amiens
(02:32):
ended conflict temporarilybetween France and England.
The second, and this is reallyimportant, the second really
huge thing that we have not yetmentioned about Napoleon while
First Consul is something thathas nothing to do with Europe,
but everything to do with NorthAmerica.
(Hmm) I am referring to theLouisiana Purchase.
Rebecca (02:57):
Oh yes.
Kim (02:58):
Yes.
The greatest exchange ofterritory in the entire French
revolutionary and Napoleonicperiod is the Louisiana
Purchase, which turned out to beenormously beneficial to the
young United States of America.
Just a little background.
Rebecca (03:14):
Oh, excellent.
Kim (03:15):
Yes.
I know how you love background.
Rebecca (03:17):
Ya know,
Kim (03:17):
I know.
France controlled a huge area,what is now Canada.
They controlled the middle areaof what is now the United States
between the Appalachians and theRocky Mountains, which were
originally called the StonyMountains.
And that area, uh, was calledLouisiana, but France lost
everything on the continent of,North America and the French and
(03:40):
Indian War.
So by 1763, France had no moreterritory left on the continent
of North America, but a yearbefore the Treaty Paris, which
ended that war, Francetransferred the western part of
Louisiana, that is to say thearea from the Mississippi River
to the Rockies, to Spain.
Rebecca (04:03):
Oh, to Spain?
Kim (04:03):
It was a secret treaty.
Yes.
Rebecca (04:05):
Did they get money in return for this?
Kim (04:07):
No, it was just a thank you to Spain because Spain had sided
with France against England and,uh, both sides, uh, both Spain
and France knew that, uh, Spainwas about to lose the Floridas
to Britain.
And so the western portion ofLouisiana in the secret Treaty
of Fontainebleau the year beforethe French and Indian War ended
(04:27):
was transferred to Spain.
Now let's flash flash forwardthe 1800.
Rebecca (04:33):
I love that.
Kim (04:33):
Okay.
Napoleon as First Consul in 1800through the secret Treaty of San
Ildefonso got Spain toretrograde or retrocede this
portion of Louisiana.
Rebecca (04:49):
So in other words, give it back.
Kim (04:50):
Right.
To give it back to France.
Now,
Rebecca (04:53):
Now why would they do that?
Kim (04:55):
Well,
Rebecca (04:55):
Just to be nice?
Kim (04:56):
Spain at this time was in a very subservient position to
France.
And Napoleon also promised thatif Spain retroceded, western
Louisiana to France, he wouldensure that the Spanish family
would acquire territory inItaly.
Of course he never followedthrough on that promise, but
(05:17):
Napoleon didn't follow throughon many promises.
I might also add he cheated atcards.
Rebecca (05:23):
How dare he!
Kim (05:24):
Even his own mother Napoleon's own mother chastised
him for cheating at cards.
So Napoleon's promises were, uh,not to be
Rebecca (05:33):
Pretty cheap.
Kim (05:34):
Well, yeah, you had to take them with a grain of salt and
then some.
Anyway, through this secrettreaty Louisiana, that portion,
which was west of theMississippi, was retroceded to
France on the condition thateither France would keep it or
give it back to Spain.
Napoleon promised that he wouldnever give it to a third party.
Rebecca (05:55):
Oh, I see where this is going.
Kim (05:58):
Yes.
So, what happened was Jeffersonwas inaugurated president in
March of 1801 following JohnAdams.
Rebecca (06:06):
Right.
Kim (06:06):
And within a short period of time of Thomas Jefferson
becoming president by say May of1801, knowledge of t his secret
treaty, b ecause let's face it,diplomatic secrets get out
pretty easily.
Knowledge of this secret treatycame to Jefferson's attention.
Now keep in mind, ThomasJefferson had always been pro F
(06:28):
rench and anti B ritish.
A ll r ight.
He had been our Minister t oFrance at the beginning of the
French Revolution.
In fact, one of the most visitedp laces in Paris at the
beginning of the FrenchRevolution was Thomas
Jefferson's residence.
And he s poke perfect French.
The, u h, French adored him asthey did Benjamin Franklin.
(06:48):
But even though Jefferson was alifelong antagonist toward the
British and was very pro French.
Once he found out about thissecret treaty in early 1801,
just a couple months into hispresidency, he said, if this is
true, we must wed ourselves tothe British fleet.
Cuz he understood that ifNapoleon who was extraordinarily
(07:12):
powerful France, which wasextraordinarily powerful, as
opposed to a very weakened Spaincontrolling t he huge area,
which stretched up into Canada,that it would be very
deleterious to Americaninterests.
So he hastened off the newambassador t o France, Robert
(07:32):
Livingston to.
Rebecca (07:33):
Mr.
Livingston, I presume.
Kim (07:34):
What's that?
That's a different Livingston.
Rebecca (07:36):
Okay.
Kim (07:36):
Robert Livingston was hastened off to France to find
out if this was true.
And if it was true, Livingstonwas told to ask for, um, passage
on the Mississippi River and tobuy the city of New Orleans.
Uh, these negotiations draggedthroughout 1802.
(07:57):
Talleyrand at this time isNapoleon's foreign minister.
By early 1803, Thomas Jeffersonsent another ambassador, a
plenipotentiary ambassador,James Monroe, the future fifth
President of the United Statesto help Livingston in these
negotiations.
Well, Monroe no sooner arrivesin Paris in early 1803 then
(08:21):
Talleyrand approaches bothLivingston and Monroe and says,
how would you like to buy all ofLouisiana?
Rebecca (08:30):
Now why would he offer that?
Kim (08:32):
There's a reason for this.
(Okay.) Napoleon, uh, at thattime had attempted to control,
uh, Hispaniola.
What is now the DominicanRepublic and Haiti.
Okay.
And it was under French controland there was a great revolt
against French rule on thatisland.
It was led by a brilliant blackleader Toussaint Louverture.
(08:56):
Napoleon sent thousands andthousands of French troops to
the island.
They died of yellow fever indroves.
It was a disaster for France.
Napoleon concluded that if hedidn't sell Louisiana, the
British would take it anywaywith their fleet.
So he figured he might as wellget out while the getting was
good.
(Okay.) And this helps toexplain why Talleyrand
(09:20):
approached Livingston andMonroe, this is while Napoleon
is still First Consul in early1803 and said, how would you
like to buy all of thisterritory?
Now, I think it's important forour listeners to understand that
Louisiana territory was farlarger than just the state of
Louisiana and Jefferson hadqualms about it, cuz there's
nothing in the Constitution thatallows for the acquisition of
(09:42):
additional territory, but heburied those qualms, put the
treaty before the Senate, it waspassed and overnight the United
States was doubled.
Rebecca (09:51):
For how much?
Kim (09:52):
Not that much.
It's one of the best real estatedeals in history, 15 million
dollars or thereabouts that'sit, it works out to a couple
pennies per acre.
Overnight, the United Stateswent from being a political
entity from the Atlantic to theMississippi, to a political
entity from the Atlantic to theRockies.
(10:13):
And this would include futurestates, not only
Rebecca (10:15):
And not much of area was settled, right?
Kim (10:17):
Oh, almost nothing was settled.
And at the same time, Lewis andClark would begin their
expedition the whole way to thePacific.
Just about that same time, thewhole Lewis and Clark
expedition, we could do a wholepodcast on that.
Rebecca (10:29):
Oh yeah, we could.
Kim (10:30):
Oh, yes it's endless what we can do podcasts on.
Rebecca (10:33):
It, it kind of is.
Kim (10:34):
Anyway, so the United States, this young country
acquires an area that doublesthe size of the United States.
Okay.
And that happened when Napoleonwas First Consul.
In May of 1804, Napoleon becameEmperor.
Rebecca (10:50):
Now who decided that?
Kim (10:52):
Uh, he put it to a vote to the French people and they
overwhelmingly approved of itbecause Napoleon by this time,
as we mentioned last time,
Rebecca (10:59):
Like, do you wanna make me emperor?
Yes or no.
Kim (11:02):
Yes.
And it was overwhelming thatthey wanted to make him Emperor.
And so he goes from being FirstConsul.
Rebecca (11:08):
I mean, what difference does it make really?
Kim (11:10):
Power wise?
Not that much, but uh,(it's thetitle), a lot of symbolism in
this and so on.
Now he's royalty and all ofthat.
And in December of 1804.
Rebecca (11:21):
And he's still married to Josephine at this point?
Kim (11:23):
He's still married to Josephine.
In December of 1804, December2nd, to be exact, uh, he would
be crowned Emperor and Pope Piusthe Seventh would attend that
ceremony in order to furthervalidate his Emperorship.
But at the precise moment, whenPius the Seventh was supposed to
place the crown, the emperor'scrown on his head Napoleon took
(11:47):
the crown himself and placed iton his head.
The implication of course was noone crowns Napoleon except
Napoleon and Josephine was crownEmpress.
You know what else isinteresting too?
He wasn't crowned Emperor ofFrance, he was crowned Emperor
of the French.
And the reason why this isimportant is because by that
(12:10):
time, France was acquiringterritory in Italy, even in the
Balkans and so on, which wouldbe part of the great French
Empire.
So Napoleon didn't want to bejust Emperor of France.
He wanted to be Emperor of theFrench Empire.
Rebecca (12:26):
He wanted it all.
Kim (12:28):
He wanted it all.
It's uh, it's an amazing event.
Rebecca (12:32):
So at this point things are going pretty well for him.
Kim (12:34):
Yeah.
And he's still in his midthirties.
Rebecca (12:36):
Wow.
Kim (12:37):
Yeah.
Wow.
All right, now he's Emperor.
Well, he is gotta fight morewars.
Okay.
(Shocking.) This is the war ofthe Third Coalition.
So he takes on Austria at thebattle of Austerlitz on December
2nd, 1805, one year to the daysince he was crowned Emperor,
and many historians, I thinkmost historians, think that
(12:57):
Austerlitz, which is, uh,located in what is now the Czech
Republic, in Moravia, is hissingle greatest victory.
This is where he shows hisbrilliance more than any other.
I don't wanna go into thedetails of the Pratzen Heights
and all that(good idea,) but hecompletely fools the Austrians
and the Russians, it's adevastating defeat for the
Austrians, Austrians and theRussians.
(13:18):
And it's a great victory.
And he knocks Austria out of thewar.
Then in 1806, Prussia comes intothe war and he knocks Prussia
out of the war at the, uh, dualbattles of Jena and Auerstedt in
October of 1806.
So he's just winning any onething after another.
In 1806, many other thingsoccur.
(13:39):
For instance, Napoleon createdsomething called the
Confederation of the Rhine.
This was a political entity of16 German states.
Mostly in western Germany.
The Confederation of the Rhinewas basically a satellite of
France.
It was just to the east ofFrance.
It was composed of 16 Germanstates that would be aligned
with France, supply troops tothe French military, and so on.
(14:02):
At the same time as theConfederation of the Rhine was
created just the very nextmonth, the Holy Roman Empire was
dissolved by Napoleon(uh oh) uh,oh, now the Holy Roman Empire is
the First Reich in Germanhistory.
It began on Christmas day in theyear 800 when Charlemagne was
crowned Emperor by Pope Leo III.
(14:24):
This was a conscious attempt inthe early middle ages to
recreate the ancient westernhalf of the Roman Empire, which
had fallen into complete decayby the end of the fifth century.
The Holy Roman Empire would last1,006 years from 800
Rebecca (14:42):
That's a pretty good track record.
Kim (14:43):
Pretty good track record at certain points in time,
especially in the Medievalperiod, it had some very
powerful monarchs like Henry IIIor Frederick Barbarossa or
Frederick II.
But by the 18th century, theHoly Roman Empire was a shadow
of its former self.
And that's why Voltaire thegreat French philosoph said that
the Holy Roman Empire wasneither Holy nor Roman nor an
(15:06):
Empire.
And so this shell of what wasonce a very powerful entity was
officially dissolved by Napoleonin August of 1806.
Just one more thing that he doesand Francis the Second of the
Holy Roman Empire becomesEmperor Francis I of Austria.
Rebecca (15:25):
Okay.
So that's a nice consolationprize.
Kim (15:28):
And as I mentioned, uh, Napoleon heated, the Prussians
at Jena and Auerstedt in Octoberof 1806 and he enters Berlin.
Napoleon in Berlin.
And, uh, he really punishes thePrussians.
The next year in 1807 he meetsanother formidable adversary.
This Tzar Alexander I.
He meets him at Tilsit, uh, onthe Neman River.
(15:51):
In fact, they actually built araft where the two emperors
would meet one another.
Rebecca (15:56):
Oh.
So they actually met, theydidn't meet in battle.
Kim (15:58):
They, they actually formally met.
It was on a raft in the NemanRiver, uh, Alexander I and
Napoleon who had been enemiesreconciled with one another.
Alexander was actually veryimpress with Napoleon.
Napoleon could be very charmingand very gracious when he wanted
to be.
He also could be very mean andout of control.
(16:21):
I mean, he actually would kickpeople at times and things like
that,(charming).
Yes, he had issues(I'll say),but he had great abilities.
One of the major reasons whyNapoleon met Alexander was not
only to knock Alexander out ofthe war in Russia, which he did,
but because of something else,and this gets to the Berlin and
(16:43):
Milan decrees issued by Napoleonin 1806 and 1807, respectively.
Napoleon's most inveterate enemywas England, he couldn't defeat
them.
Trafalgar had knocked out theFranco-Spanish fleet in October
of 1805.
I mean we've covered Trafalgaron many occasions, 33
(17:04):
Franco-Spanish ships against 27British ships led by Viscount
(Lord) Nelson, right.
And the British didn't lose asingle ship and the
Franco-Spanish fleet lost 18.
So Napoleon realized he wasbottled up on the continent and
couldn't take on the BritishNavy.
So he decided that he would tryto destroy England economically.
(17:25):
This is known as the ContinentalSystem.
The Continental System, asevidenced by the Berlin and
Milan decrees issued by Napoleonsaid that any neutral ship that
would be trading with Britaincould be seized.
Rebecca (17:38):
Oh, that's huge.
Kim (17:39):
Oh, it's huge.
Absolutely.
It's huge.
For instance, the young Americannation, which was so dependent
on shipping, if they compliedwith, if they traded with
Britain, they could be seized byNapoleon's, uh, Navy.
Now the British responded in1807 with Orders in Council,
which said that if you adhere tothe Berlin and Milan decrees
(18:00):
we'll seize your ships,
Rebecca (18:02):
Haha, take that.
Kim (18:04):
So, you see a nation like America.
If they traded with Britain,Napoleon would go after them.
If they traded with France,Britain would go after them.
This led President ThomasJefferson to have the Embargo
Act enacted, uh, which said thatwe'll just keep all American
ships in American ports and wewon't trade with either.
(18:25):
Well.
Rebecca (18:26):
That doesn't work out very well, does it?
Kim (18:27):
It didn't work out.
This is probably Jefferson'swork decision and talk about,
you know, cutting off your noseto spite your face.
But Napoleon attempted todestroy Britain economically
since he couldn't destroy themmilitarily, especially with
respect to their Navy.
And when he's meeting withAlexander at, uh, Tilsit, this
is all part of what Alexanderagrees to.
(18:49):
Also in 1807 at Tilsit Napoleon,uh, creates another kingdom
called Westphalia.
He made his brother, Jerome,king of Westphalia.
He originally made Joseph hisolder brother King of Naples.
Now Joseph will shortly becomeKing of Spain.
His brother L ewis will becomeking of Holland.
Mentioning Spain takes me to thefirst of Napoleons two great
(19:13):
mistakes.
The Continental Systemestablished by Napoleon whereby
no European nation was allowedto trade with Britain was not
adhered to by Portugal.
Portugal has always been a verytough nation t hough w as small
nation.
And the oldest alliance in thehistory of Europe, which i s
still existent to this day isthe Anglo-Portuguese alliance of
the 14th century.
(19:35):
(Ah- h a) Portugal refused to goalong with Napoleon's
Continental System.
So, Napoleon was going to showthem a lesson.
He invaded Portugal goingthrough Spain i nto Portugal
because Portugal was loyal toBritain, was l oyal t o England.
This is the beginning of what isknown as the Peninsular War,
(19:57):
which will last from 1 807 to1814.
Rebecca (20:00):
That's a long time.
Kim (20:01):
That's a long time and, uh, the greatest work on(with such a
small country).
Well, the Peninsular War willalso expand into fighting the
Spanish, which I'll get into injust a moment, not just
Portugal.
Sir Charles Oman, a greatEnglish historian wrote a lot in
the middle ages.
He wrote a seven volume historyof the Peninsular War, about 700
(20:23):
pages each, published between1902 and 1930, took him 28 years
to write it.
Rebecca (20:29):
That will not be on my reading list this year.
Kim (20:31):
Well, you know, it's funny, you mentioned that cuz I was
thinking about getting that foryou as a Christmas present.
Rebecca (20:37):
Oh well Christmas is already over.
Kim (20:39):
Oh I(maybe next year) I thought you might have just
devoured volume after volumewith great relish.
Rebecca (20:44):
I mean, why do that when I'm gonna just have you
tell me about it
Kim (20:49):
In any case, this was a great mistake by Napoleon and
then the next year in 1808, bythe way, the Portuguese Royal
family made it out of Portugal,just barely accompanied by the
British fleet, with thePortuguese fleet to the Vice
Royalty of Brazil, which wascontrolled by Portugal.
So, Napoleon wasn't able tocapture the Portuguese, uh,(good
(21:12):
for them,) royal family.
And the very next year heencouraged both, uh, King
Charles the Fourth and his son,the future Ferdinand the Seventh
to abdicate.
And this is when he made hisbrother Joseph King of Spain.
Rebecca (21:25):
He encouraged them?
(He twisted) sounds like aeuphemism to me.
Kim (21:29):
He twisted some arms here.
Rebecca (21:31):
All the way off probably.
Kim (21:32):
And the Spanish did not want Joseph Napoleon, Joseph
Bonaparte as what?
Rebecca (21:38):
Why would they?
Kim (21:39):
Yeah, why would they?
So what happens is both thePortuguese and the Spanish
people rise up against theFrench and the British
eventually send a great general,Arthur Wellesley, the future
Duke of Wellington to fightthem.
And he will lead a combinedAnglo-Portuguese, Spanish force
(22:00):
for years in the IberianPeninsula.
It is replete with battle afterbattle, story after story.
It's a fascinating tale.
You sure you don't want thatseven volume Sir Charles Oman
work?
Rebecca (22:14):
Uh, I'll get back to you by next Christmas
Kim (22:17):
And uh, Napoleon referred to it as his, as his ulcer.
Uh, I, he made a great mistakegoing into, uh, Spain and
Portugal and it will lastvirtually to the end of his, uh,
emperorship.
Napoleon in 1808, met Alexanderagain at Erfurt.
This is the last time Alexander,this our Alexander and Napoleon
(22:39):
will meet.
Napoleon will take on Austria inyet another war in 1809 and
defeat them at Wagram.
Napoleon will actually enterVienna, Napoleon's all over the
place.
He's in Berlin, he's in Vienna.
This is one of the mostextraordinary lives I've ever
studied.
Rebecca (22:55):
This guy got around.
Kim (22:56):
And he wins battle after battle.
I mean, the man was a militarygenius.
By this time Josephine, it wasclear, uh, she could not bear
any children to Napoleon.
So he decided to divorce her.
She agreed to it with tears, butshe agreed to it.
Rebecca (23:11):
What a jerk.
Kim (23:12):
And he married Marie Louise , the daughter of the Austrian
Emperor by which he would have ason, the so called Napoleon II.
Napoleon also had mistress.
He had a very famous(I'mshocked!) Polish mistress and so
on.
Yeah.
Napoleon got around in more waysthan one.
Rebecca (23:29):
I guess so.
Kim (23:30):
Right.
Oh, by the way, uh, in 1807, healso created the small Dutchy of
Warsaw because Poland had beencompletely extinguished in the
18th century through the threepartitions of 1772, 1793 and
1795 by Austria, Prussia andRussia.
So a lot of Poles admiredNapoleon.
(23:51):
He,
Rebecca (23:52):
Because he created Warsaw?
Kim (23:53):
Uh, he created Dutchy of Warsaw.
He was pro Polish as a counteragainst Russia, as a counter
against Russia.
And there were many Poles, manycavalry, many infantry men who
fought in the French armybecause there was a tremendous,
uh, affection there for whatNapoleon did for, for Poland.
(24:14):
So, Napoleon by 1810 is themaster of Europe.
I mean, he has everyone
Rebecca (24:20):
But it's not enough.
Kim (24:22):
It's not enough.
And don't forget, he's still atwar with,(in the Iberian
Peninsula) with, with Britain,Napoleon understood that his
greatest enemy w ere t heBritish.
And as you move into 1810, 1811,u h, Czar Alexander was getting
very tired of the ContinentalSystem, the economic blockade of
England and so o n c uz it washurting Russian commerce, and
(24:45):
Napoleon got more and moreirritated with Alexander and
this comes t o Napoleon's secondgreat mistake.
He decided i n 1812 to invadeRussia.
Rebecca (24:58):
Big mistake.
Kim (24:59):
Now folks, I gotta tell you invading Russia is one of
easily, the 10 worst ideas ever,(ever) right.
Because the Russians are a verycourageous people.
They're a very tough people.
They also have a country whichis vast.
They suck you into their countryand let you take more and more
territory, and they wait untilthe winter hits.
Rebecca (25:22):
And then they just wait i t out.
Kim (25:23):
And then, well they oftentimes attack cuz they're
very good winter fighters.
Uh, no question about it.
Napoleon won a preliminarybrutal battle at, uh, Borodino
on September 7th, 1812, about ahundred miles west of Moscow.
A week later, he will enterMoscow.
Napoleon will come into Moscow,but as he and his troops are
(25:46):
coming into Moscow, a great firebreaks out.
We don't know who set this fire,if it was deliberate or
whatever,
Rebecca (25:52):
I was just gonna say, scorched earth.
Kim (25:53):
Three quarters of Moscow was destroyed.
(Wow.) I'd also like to mentionthis just about Napoleon's
invasion of Russia.
Militarily, a large army in the18th century was 40-50,000.
I mentioned this in a previouspodcast, George Washington never
commanded more than 20,000troops at one time.
Napoleon invaded Russia with600,000 troops.
Rebecca (26:15):
Where did he get'em?
Kim (26:17):
Well, he got them from France.
He got them from theConfederation of the Rhine.
He got them from allies,reluctant allies like Prussia
from Austria, but he invadedRussia with this huge...
nobody had seen an army this bigin history, but he enters Moscow
in mid-October of 1812.
(26:38):
Most of the city burns down.
I'm sorry.
He enters in September and bymid-October he decides to leave
Moscow because Czar Alexanderthe First who he thought would
negotiate with him is silent anddoesn't do anything.
Rebecca (26:53):
Where is he at this point?
Kim (26:55):
He's someplace outside of Moscow.
(St.
Petersburg?) And he refuses tonegotiate with Napoleon.
So Napoleon enters Moscow in midSeptember in mid-October he
decides to retreat and theretreat is a disaster.
Hundreds of thousands ofsoldiers will starve to death,
freeze to death.
Some will be taken prisoner byRussian troops.
(27:16):
Napoleon eventually makes itback to France in December of
1812 with maybe perhaps 20,000troops(out of all of those?) Out
of 600,000.
Yeah, it was estimated that onlyone to two thousand were really
ready for battle by the time topull you makes it back, but he's
still alive and he's stillconfident.
(27:38):
And.
Rebecca (27:39):
How can he be confident after a big loss like that?
(Uh) I mean the human lifealone.
Kim (27:45):
Napoleon, uh, assembled yet another army.
And as you move into 1813, youhave another coalition against
Napoleon, the English.
Eventually the Prussians, theAustrians, the Russians and
Napoleon fights some of his mostbrilliant battles in this 1813,
1814 period.
(28:06):
Even though he is on thedefensive even, uh, many, uh,
adversaries, like Wellingtonsaid, some of his most brilliant
battles were fought when he hadso few troops.
Uh, this, this is a man ofgenius.
There was a great battle foughtin October of 1813.
It was a four day battle,October 16th to October 19th,
(28:27):
1813.
It's known as the battle of thenations at Leipzig.
Napoleon lost.
Rebecca (28:31):
Dun dun dun.
Kim (28:32):
Yes, this was the great battle at that time.
And Napoleon retreated back intoFrance.
Now what's interesting here isthat Napoleon was still so
feared and so respected that inNovember of 1813, even though
the disaster in Russia hadoccurred, even though the battle
of Leipzig had occurred, therewas something known as the
(28:53):
Frankfurt proposals put forwardby his enemies.
They would leave Napoleon inpower as Emperor.
They would leave him with thenatural frontiers of France,
which were bigger than theancient frontiers, which would
include say for instance,Belgium.
Napoleon hesitated.
It was a fatal hesitation.
If he had accepted this, hecould have remained as Emperor
of France with an expandedFrance, but he decided he could
(29:17):
get an even better deal bycontinuing to defeat his enemies
in battle.
So we move into 1814, where hecontinues to fight battles, but
eventually loses.
And in April of 1814 with theTreaty of Fontainebleau, he
abdicates and he abdicates...
Rebecca (29:34):
He realizes there's no place for him to go.
Kim (29:36):
His, his, his marshals, his generals told him there's no
hope left.
In fact, by the time heabdicated on April 11th, 1814,
Czar Alexander, FrederickWilliam III of Prussia were
already in Paris.
(Oh wow.) Yeah.
So Napoleon had nowhere to turn.
A deal was made.
(29:57):
There was still this greatrespect for Napoleon.
So he would be made emperor ofthe little island of Elba.
Rebecca (30:03):
Oh, the Emperor of Elba,
Kim (30:04):
The Emperor of Elba.
Uh, this is his firstabdication.
There's gonna be two of them.
And he abdicated in April of, uh, 1814 and was made Emperor of
Elba.
Elba is a small island off thewest coast of Italy.
It's about 80, 90 square miles.
And he was made Emperor of thissmall island.
He could take about a thousandtroops with him and so on.
(30:27):
And the Bourbon dynasty cameback in, uh, the form of Louis
the 18th and was reestablishedin Paris.
And then the Congress of Viennabegins to occur from September
of 1814 to June of 1815, wherelots of things will be decided,
the creation of a kingdom of theNetherlands, the German
Confederation, uh, a Polanddependent on Russia, an
(30:50):
independent city of Krakow.
There's a lot of things that itdealt with the slave trade, um,
Jewish rights in Germany andelsewhere.
Now Napoleon's watching all thison Elba from 1814 into early
Rebecca (31:03):
Well, he's not really watching the news.
Kim (31:06):
He's getting all this information from different
sources while he's on Elba.
Rebecca (31:09):
Now, is anybody watching him?
Kim (31:11):
Yes, there was
Rebecca (31:12):
But they're letting this information come and go.
Kim (31:14):
Well, this information came to him, nonetheless in late
1814, early 1815, he got a lotof information to the effect
that the restored Bourbondynasty, uh, there was a lot of
resentment about it, et cetera,even though Louis the 18th, who
I think was a pretty shrewd guy.
So Napoleon decides in lateFebruary of 1815, while all
(31:35):
these enemies of Napoleon aremeeting at Vienna, the Congress
of Vienna, he decides to make acomeback.
This is known as The HundredDays.
Rebecca (31:45):
So the troops that were watching him, guarding him
Kim (31:49):
Well there's no troops really watching him, the British
Navy, had a couple ships thereand so on.
I mean, there was, there wasvery few and he had about a
thousand men on Elba, but helands in France on March 1st of
1815.
Rebecca (32:02):
So he just up and leaves?
Kim (32:03):
Yep.
He just secretly ups and leaves.
Rebecca (32:05):
Nobody stops him.
Kim (32:07):
He, um, escaped, uh, the British fleet.
Yes.
(Hmm) And he lands in France andhe's hailed by many, including
some of his former marshals likeNey who said that, no, I will, I
will put Napoleon in a cage.
But as soon as they met him,that charm, he had that persona
he had, they decided to sidewith him.
(32:29):
And so Napoleon makes his wayback into Paris.
Louis, the 18th flees in thebaggage train of the Allies,
getting out of France andNapoleon swears that he only
wants peace, that he will just,
Rebecca (32:41):
Who's gonna believe him at this point?
Kim (32:43):
Right, who's gonna believe Napoleon at this time.
And so the, um, enemies ofNapoleon, uh, Austria, Prussia,
Russia, and Britain renew theirTreaty of Chaumont that they had
made in March of 1814.
They swear to stay together forat least 20 years.
They will not deal with him.
They actually officially declarehim an outlaw.
Notice before
Rebecca (33:04):
So, there's like wanted posters all over Europe?
Kim (33:07):
Well, I don't know if there were wanted posters or whatever,
but remember they were ready togive him France with the
Frankfurt proposals of Novemberof 1813.
Now, they don't want negotiatewith him at all.
Rebecca (33:17):
Why would they?
Kim (33:17):
Right.
And so Napoleon decides beforeRussia and Austria can get their
troops together.
He will go after British andPrussian troops.
And he goes northward into whatis now Belgium.
And he wins a couple preliminaryvictories, but at Waterloo on
June 18th, 1815, the Britishcommander Wellington and the
(33:42):
Prussian commander Blücherdefeat Napoleon in his last
battle.
So Napoleon met his Waterloo atWaterloo.
(That's very clever.) And hegoes back to Paris.
He abdicates a second time.
The Prussians wanted to killhim.
If Blücher had gotten a hold ofNapoleon.
They would've shot him.
So Napoleon throws himself uponthe British, who he referred to
(34:02):
as his most inveterate and
Rebecca (34:04):
Did he and Wellington ever meet personally?
Kim (34:06):
Not that I know of, no.
Uhuh, I don't believe.
I mean, they were in the fieldof battle and they would've seen
each other at Waterloo, but Idon't think they ever personally
met.
I know of no evidence aboutthat.
And so this time the British aregiven the thankless task of
dealing with Napoleon.
(34:27):
And this time they send him notto some place in the
Mediterranean, they send him toone of the most remote places on
the planet, St.
Helena in the south Atlantic,thousands of miles in the middle
of nowhere, I mean, 1,200 milesoff the African coast, a
thousand miles or more off thesouth American coast.
Rebecca (34:47):
How did they think of that?
Kim (34:48):
I don't know.
Uh, the decision, uh, at thattime, uh, Lord Liverpool was the
Prime Minister.
It was probably discussed by himand Castlereagh his Foreign
Secretary and others and theydecided to send him to St.
Helena.
And he would remain the last sixyears of his life in this
extraordinarily isolated place.
Rebecca (35:10):
But it was inhabited.
Kim (35:11):
Oh yes.
It's still inhabited.
There's about, uh, four or 5,000people there.
It's, it's part of the remnantof the British empire.
It's still, it's still part, uh,it's still owned by Britain.
And it's about twice the size ofManhattan.
(That's a good size.) I've seenthe photos and such, I mean, it
looks like a beautiful place.
It's quite mountainous and soon.
But Napoleon was given a mansioncalled Longwood.
(35:35):
He was irritated by the factthat they wouldn't call him
Emperor, but only General.
Rebecca (35:39):
He should be glad that they at least called him that.
Kim (35:41):
Well, I'm absolutely convinced that if the Prussians
or even the Austrians had gottena hold of him, they, they
would've shot him.
So, uh, Napoleon spent the lastsix years of his life at St.
Helena learning
Rebecca (35:54):
Did his wife join him?
Kim (35:56):
No, Marie Louise did not join him.
She actually took up a lover.
(Oh, there you go.) And his, uh,young son would die at the age
of 21.
Uh, the so-called Napoleon theSecond and Napoleon would spend
his last six years on St.
Helena surrounded by some of hismost, uh, most faithful
(36:16):
servants.
And in 1821 at the age of 51, hewould die of stomach cancer.
Rebecca (36:23):
What a life though, 51 years are like a hundred in
regular people terms.
Kim (36:27):
The man packed centuries of living into half a century.
He is one of the mostextraordinary persons I've ever
studied.
I think Alexis de Tocquevillethe great a French, uh,
politician and author who wrotethe most astute work on America
ever written, I think he summedup Napoleon best.
He said of Napoleon, he was asgreat as a man could be without
(36:51):
morality.
I think that captures Napoleon.
He had great gifts.
He was a genius militarily.
He had administrative talents ofthe first order.
He was shrewd.
Rebecca (37:03):
So why would you say he had no morality?
Kim (37:06):
Oh, he would lie regularly.
He would betray people.
He would, uh, even with his ownfamily, all right?
I mean, he'd deposed his ownbrother Louis who was king of
Holland.
Um, he, uh, had nothing to dowith Lucian who wouldn't support
him who was another brother.
Napoleon was not someone whocould be trusted.
(37:27):
Washington and Abraham Lincolnand so on.
If he had had the moral touch ofan Abraham Lincoln, oh my God.
He could have gone down as.
Rebecca (37:39):
Well, if he would have had that moral touch, he
would've never done half of whathe did.
Kim (37:43):
Perhaps.
There's no one quite likeNapoleon in history.
And once again, one of the mostinteresting things about him is
he fights some of his greatestbattles when he's on the
defensive in 1813, 1814.
They're absolutely brilliant.
They're studied to this dayNapoleon's strategy and tactics.
And he was also a master oflogistics.
He knew how to feed his army.
He knew how to equip his army.
(38:04):
He could get from place A, toplace B faster than anybody else
and would surprise his enemiesmany times as he did at
Austerlitz in December of 1805,the man is inexhaustible.
A person could spend the rest oftheir life studying Napoleon.
Rebecca (38:21):
So what is his legacy?
Kim (38:23):
His legacy is mixed.
I mean, he did many great thingslike the Code Napoleon and, um,
educational reforms.
Some of his achievements arereally laudable.
For instance, uh, Napoleon wasnot a snob, no matter how low
you were born, if you showedability, he would raise you up
very high.
(That's impressive.) Yeah, no,he's a, he's really a mixed bag.
(38:47):
I mean, and some of the thingshe destroyed, like, uh, a lot of
futile aspects, et cetera, itwas good that he destroyed it.
But
Rebecca (38:55):
And some of the Bonapartes ended up in
Philadelphia.
Kim (38:58):
That's right.
Joseph Bonaparte, King of Spain,formerly King of Naples ended up
in Philadelphia, right there atEighth Street, close to the
Walnut Street Theatre.
So, uh, one of his brothersJerome, uh, lived to 1860.
(Hmm.) And his mother outlivedhim by 15 years.
There is no one quite likeNapoleon in history.
Rebecca (39:17):
But that's probably a good thing.
Kim (39:19):
Probably a good thing.
Yes.
Just from a sheer intellectualstandpoint, the man is
extraordinary.
Rebecca (39:25):
Well, I'm glad we did this two part series.
Kim (39:27):
I'm glad we did it too.
Rebecca (39:29):
Cuz we certainly could not have crammed it into one.
Kim (39:31):
I don't think so.
No.
And there's a lot of things Ileft out.
(I'm shocked.).
Shocked you say.
Rebecca (39:41):
I think next we have something completely different.
Kim (39:44):
Yes, I think we do.
Rebecca (39:45):
And something I really don't know much about.
Kim (39:46):
Well, this is the Scopes Monkey Trial, uh,(which I've
heard of) in the 1920s, ClarenceDarrow, uh, Williams Jennings
Brian, teaching of evolution andall of that.
Rebecca (39:56):
Would you say it changed the world?
Kim (39:58):
Well, I think Napoleon changed the world.
I'm not so sure the Scope'sMonkey Trial changed the world,
but it was a pretty big event.
Rebecca (40:05):
At least in America.
Kim (40:06):
Yeah, well maybe even outside of America, but
certainly in America.
Yeah.
Well, does that, uh, does thatdo it?
Rebecca (40:12):
I think that wraps it up.
Kim (40:14):
Okay then.
Rebecca (40:15):
So again, happy New Year, everyone.
And I hope this is a healthy,happy and very prosperous year
for all of you.
Kim (40:24):
Yes.
I hope 2022 is a better yearthan 2020 or 2021.
Rebecca (40:28):
Has to be.
Kim (40:29):
Well, not necessarily.
Rebecca (40:32):
Always the optimist
Kim (40:33):
On that, optimistic note.
Rebecca (40:34):
All right, everyone.
Thanks for listening and untiltime.
Kim (40:37):
All right.
Goodbye.
Rebecca (40:39):
Well, friends here we are at the end of the podcast,
be sure to check out the linksin the show description to find
some of the resources we usedfor this episode.
Also, if you've enjoyedlistening, please head over to
Apple Podcast and give us avirtual high five by leaving us
a five star review.
We'd really appreciate that.
And if you'd like to connectwith us directly, you can find
(41:01):
us athistoricallyspeakingpodcast.com
or follow us on Instagram at@historicallyspeakingpodcast.
That's it for today.
And again, thanks for sharingpart of your day with us.
And remember if you wanna knowwhat the future holds, study the
past.
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