Horse Soldiers Part 2: Into the Fire on Horseback

In part 2 of Horse Soldiers, the special forces team is boots on the ground in Afghanistan. While they face the challenges of a new terrain, they also face the challenge of their new mode of transportation... Horses. There's work to do and they get right into the fight!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
The following four parts of this series are an adaptation of Doug Stanton's Horse Soldiers,

(00:04):
a number one New York Times bestseller.
Paraphrasing of the published work is used with credit to the author.
Some of the names in this story are pseudonyms to protect the identity of those involved.
The comments and reactions displayed in this podcast do not reflect the opinions or views of the author.

(02:16):
Welcome back to the History on the Rocks podcast. This is your host Cody, of course,
joining me, my lovely wife Audrey. Hello again. Hello again. This is part two of our series on our

(02:37):
Horse Soldiers. Part two, Into the Fire on Horseback is our title for this episode. We're still
drinking Horse Soldier. Yes, we are. We've saved it up to complete this series. Yeah, I've had a couple
drinks in the evening this past week, but I avoided this one because I was like, Oh, no, this one's

(03:01):
special for podcast recording. Yeah, even though I had a couple glasses of it. Yeah, I chose the
Driftwood one, Driftwood Glen. Driftless Glen. Driftless. Can never remember that one. When I
went to go find this, Driftless Glen, there was like five different bottles of it at both

(03:22):
Lundin's and Hy-Vee. And it was like front and center, which was interesting. Yeah. So it's
obviously something that's made a big name for itself. Apparently, yeah, I had never heard of it
until we got it, but it's not far away from us. So no, it was good though. Yeah. Yeah. All right.
Well, let's jump into episode two. So before we jump into it, I watched the trailer for the movie.

(03:48):
Oh, that's right. Because I was like, Okay, I got to look this up. I got to figure out how we can
watch it. I saw it's on Apple TV Prime. And there was one other one. You said that you can just
rent it or download it or buy it on iTunes, right? Well, yeah, of course. Pretty much, I think any

(04:09):
movie that you want to watch is going to be on there. But yeah, you can. But of course, Prime
Video, it's one that you have to pay for. It's where you pay for all these subscriptions, then you
got to pay within the subscription. Of course. But yes, you can rent it or buy it on Amazon Prime,
or I don't know, I couldn't get on our Apple TV. So I don't know if it's on, I don't know if it's

(04:35):
free or if you can rent it. Probably have to rent it or something. They're always trying to get an
extra dime out of you. Yep. Especially the streaming services. Yeah, it looked really good. So I'm
excited to watch it after this. Oh, should I give them the exciting news that I got this week? Oh,
yeah, for sure. Horse Soldiers written by Doug Stanton. That's been our main source of this

(05:01):
episode. There's a couple of other secondary sources I've been using from the internet. But
I've been picking and choosing the really important parts of Doug Stanton's book. And so I just threw
him an email. I was like, Hey, Scotty Billick from the History on the Rocks podcast. I was like,
I would love if, you know, we could do like, you know, 15, 20 minute interview. If not, an

(05:24):
interview, can I, you know, write you some questions? And could you, you know, email me back
with the answers? And, you know, when you contact people like that, who are, you know, just prominent
authors and things like that, he's a New York Times number one bestselling author. So I'm like,
what are the chances he actually gets back to me? Like, I'll probably get like a secretary who

(05:46):
writes me back or an agent or something like that. No, Doug wrote me back personally, gave me his
phone number and told me he'd be glad to talk about doing an interview. And, you know, talk about
the book. That's so cool. And I am so pumped because I'm going to be bringing that to you guys.

(06:08):
I'm going to call them tomorrow, which is Monday, we're recording this on Sunday. I'm going to give
them a call tomorrow and set up some details when we can record an episode with him. It'll probably
be like a special episode after part three, because I don't know his schedule, obviously, with my
schedule. I don't know what date I don't know if we're going to be able to get it done before we
record part three. So it might be a extra add on and a bonus episode to this. But I'm so excited

(06:35):
because Doug actually sent me back an email and it was like, I would love to talk about the book
and stuff. And he congratulated me on the podcast and it was awesome. I was like, Oh my God, I
actually got contacted back by like, in personally, which is like, I feel like it's rare.
Yeah. And like, not just that he's a New York Times bestselling author, but his book got turned

(06:58):
into a movie, a Hollywood movie with Chris Hemsworth. Like, I mean, a big star and other people
that I recognized in that in the movie. It's not like some C list, B list actors. These are big,
big stars that this movie was written after his book. And I'm really excited to talk to him and
and get this set up. So that's what we have to look forward to with this episode.

(07:18):
Yeah, I'm excited to hear about your interview with him.
All right. Well, let's dive into part two into the fire on horseback. So where we left off in part
one cliffhanger cliffhanger was that the Chinook carrying the teams had been hovering landed.
Captain Nelson had shot the orders to go and the team got off, created their crescent perimeter

(07:41):
around the Chinook waiting to be attacked by Afghan forces, I'm sorry, by Taliban forces,
while they're meeting up with the Northern Alliance just south of Dehi. That's where we left you
with that little cliffhanger. So as the team eyed the valley for any site of enemy movement,
figures started to pop up in the near distance. One, then two, then three, the figures were tall

(08:05):
men dressed in robes with what seemed to be gun barrels hanging out of them. Flashlights started
to glow and a dialect was heard that was gibberish to the team. However, Cal Spencer being fluent
in Russian and Arabic, recognized the language as Dari, a dialect of Persian that was a native tongue
of the Afghan people. Now, as he joked about being in the land of the Sand people from Star Wars,

(08:28):
he felt a tap on his shoulder. When he turned around quickly, his eyes widened to a Northern
Alliance soldier standing in front of him. And he was absolutely just shocked that he had let
this man sneak up on him. Because like special forces, no one's sneaking up on you. Like, you
know, you know, your surroundings, your aware of everything. So it's like, Oh, crap, this guy
could have killed me. Yeah. So the cliffhanger, no, they were not met by Taliban fire or anything

(08:54):
like that. Actually, waiting behind boulders and rocks was the CIA team, as well as the Northern
Alliance soldiers there to greet them. Well, thank goodness that it was not a bad no. And like, the
whole first, yeah, the whole first part, we talked about how all these guys were like, this is a

(09:15):
suicide mission. Like, right when we get in, we're going to die. And they land, get off, and it's
peace and quiet. And no one knows they're there. So it's, it's great. Yeah, it's a great entrance
into Afghanistan. No one's injured. There's no gun battle or anything. Clean and safe into the
village of Dehi or just south of Dehi, where we're going to talk about in a minute here. So

(09:38):
Spencer, Cal Spencer, he's relieved to see his allies were there and not the Taliban. But however,
he was told that the CIA team would also be there to greet them. Then he saw them, larger
figures walking toward them. And he recognized them from back at the K2 base. It was JJ Sawyer,
Dave Olson, and Mike Span of the CIA team. The average height of an Afghan and weight was about

(10:02):
six foot 140 tons, Kenny. Yeah. And the CIA, I think Mike Span is a little bit shorter, but JJ
Sawyer and Dave Olson are like big dudes. They're like, you know, 180 to 200 pounds. So like, they
know that these are American, they're American allies, who are there to greet them? For sure.

(10:23):
The Northern Alliance soldiers led the men up a small hill about 300 yards to the site of the
safe house. The safe house would be called the Alamo by the Americans. Okay, I think we talked
about that. Do we talk about that in part one? A little bit when the CIA was there. Yeah. So just
to reiterate the the safe house where they're staying just south of Dehi when they first get
there is the Alamo. Or as fifth grade, Audrey would say the Alamo. Yes, the Alamo. I was gonna

(10:48):
bring that up. I'm glad you did. Whoopsie. The Alamo, as Audrey would call it. Now the safe house
was made of mud, and the walls were about eight feet high. There was a gate wide enough for large
animals or a tank to fit through. There were also hitching posts for the horses. The rooms they
would be staying in were originally horse stalls, and they smelled like manure, but were tidied up

(11:12):
for the men to stay in. So not the greatest accommodations. At least they were tidied up.
Yeah, they cleaned it up for them as much as they can, but they still smelled like shit. Well,
I mean, you can't really expect five star accommodations. Not in Afghanistan, in the middle
of the mountains. Nope. Captain Mitch and Elson was eager to meet General Abdul Rashid Dostam. He

(11:37):
inquired with JJ Sorier about where the general was and was told that he would arrive in the morning.
Sorier explained to Nelson how these men rode around the country on horseback fighting a modern
war. It was unlike anything he'd ever seen. Dostam was exiled from the country in 1997, but
pledged to make a triumphant return to help Masoud push back the Taliban after they had gained so

(11:59):
much ground. Dostam was fierce and was going to see this fight through until he was killed,
or the Taliban was completely demolished. He wanted his city of Mazar al-Sharif back in his
possession. So that morning, Spencer was drinking from a cup of coffee, wondering and waiting
anxiously for the general to show up. He started to hear the thunder of hooves rattling the ground.

(12:20):
So the sound of rifle fire began as seven men rode up shouting, he's coming. The general is here.
In Dari, their language. Another group of men rode up through the rising dust as the Americans
stood on the front gate. There was a sense of weariness in the air as the Americans knew they
could trust no one and feared the worst. A man on a white horse rode up, halted his horse. Nobody

(12:42):
said a word. The man dismounted his horse wearing a gray robe, a red smock, a turban with riding
boots. General Dostam greeted the Americans relieved of their arrival into the valley,
and it was time to get to work. Now Dostam rolled a giant map of Afghanistan on the table,
scratched with pencil marks. He had been using the same map since his engagement with a Taliban

(13:05):
in the village of Safideh Kota, which is just a little bit north of where we're talking about.
It's actually just south of Mazar al-Sharif, and he was fighting the Taliban there before the
Americans arrived. Nelson had a map that was small, grainy, and written in Russian. And Nelson
doesn't know Russian like Spencer does. So really, it's this old map from when the Soviets were

(13:29):
there in Afghanistan. They started to talk about their strategy and end goal. And the end goal is
taking Kabul, right? The capital of Afghanistan is obviously the most prominent city to get to,
but it's going to take some time to get there because they have to capture these other cities
and able to gain control of the country and then finish up in Kabul. But first, that first city

(13:52):
they need to take control of is Mazar al-Sharif. If they could take Mazar, all six of the northern
provinces would fall out of Taliban control. However, in order to get to Mazar, they'd have to set
their sights on the Darya Suf river valley. It was the key to gaining entrance to Mazar.
And he realized these were front and back. Yeah, they are front and back.

(14:17):
Nelson pointed at a village on the map where he circled where the Taliban were holding up.
This was the village of Chepchal, about eight miles north of their current location at the
Alamo. He then circled a second village lying just two miles north of the Alamo. This was the
village of Dehi, and we've been talking about Dehi this whole time. He had just the previous week

(14:39):
taking control of that little village from the Taliban. This was a safe area where the teams
could move north through the valley to engage the Taliban hideouts. So the caves and the outposts
that lie just north of that city is where they're going to engage the Taliban to keep moving up
towards Mazar al-Sharif through the river valley. So at this point, does the Taliban and al-Qaeda

(15:06):
know we have made entrance into Afghanistan at all? If they do know, they don't make it known
that they know. Does that make sense? That's the only way I can put it. But I don't think that
they know we are there. Because you're going to see in this episode, Tostam, remember when I was
talking about how they talk shit to each other through the radios? Tostam, we're going to get

(15:31):
there. I don't want to ruin it yet. But you're going to see it. This book, Doug does such a good
job of there's comic relief in this book. It's a very serious situation, but there's a lot of
comic relief. And you're going to see it in this part two of how Doug puts these high spirits of
the soldiers in there and even the Taliban joking around in such a suicide kind of mission. And

(15:54):
it gives the reader this sense of, oh, okay, these guys are in high spirits. They're not always
freaking out, nervous, or about to get killed. And there's just this camaraderie between the Northern
Alliance, the generals, and the Americans. And not that because I don't have any experience in the

(16:15):
military. And but from like the, and again, it's Hollywood, but like the movies that are war based,
I feel like in some of the ones that I watch, there are high spirits, they have to like make light
of the situation, even though it's so serious, and they might not make it home alive.
I feel like it's the only thing that can keep you going. Yeah, for sure. You know, like, if you're

(16:39):
just constantly thinking of your family back home, and, and you're always just terrified, you're
never going to make it. No, not. Yeah. And I think that's why the personnel in the military are just
a different breed, obviously. Especially, you know, I'm going to go even further to special
forces. These guys enter the most dangerous situations in the world. And they're, you know,
they're always just ready to go high spirits. I mean, they might be shaking in their boots. Oh,

(17:04):
yeah. But they're still like, they have this mental toughness to just fight through every
situation to make it out in the end alive. Yeah, definitely. So if you're following along on the
map, site number six is D high site number five is the Alamos, you can see those two distances
between each other, it's just about two miles, if that. And again, these are approximate locations.

(17:27):
Reading and just looking at the map. And I actually ended up finding a great source online
that actually had the exact locations of these areas. And I finally found a city that we're going
to talk about later. And I'll talk more about that. But if you're using them, the interactive map
on Google Earth, we are around five and six right now. So the Alamo just south of D high, and then

(17:52):
the village of D high just north. So I feel like we talked about the Taliban a little bit in the
first episode, but let's actually clear it up. The Taliban are fighting force made of men who are
pretty much slaves. Okay, they are threatened by the Taliban. If they do not fight for them, they
put their families in danger. If they do not join now the quote unquote, foreign Taliban are the

(18:13):
ferocious and dedicated fires that are here for a specific reason of jihad. This group is made up
of Chinese, Chechens, Saudis and Pakistanis. These men were usually joined by al Qaeda. These foreign
fighters are those that will blow themselves up taking as many as they can with them rather than
surrendering. When the Afghan Taliban are captured, they will flip sides and fight for the Northern

(18:36):
Alliance. So that's a very important distinction to understand later when we get into some of the
battles that are about to happen. And taking of cities and villages is that the actual Afghanis who
don't want to fight for the Taliban but are forced to they're going to come up with their hands up
raised like, Okay, can I fight for you now? Yeah, let me flip. Let me flip. But those foreign

(19:02):
Taliban who are part of more al Qaeda or in relation to al Qaeda who have this direct, we're
taking over in the form of jihad. Those are the suicide bombers. Those are the ones who will go
to the ends of the earth to take as many people with them. So like the al Qaeda are like the
extremists, like they are the ones that want to fight and kill all their people. Yes, but al Qaeda

(19:26):
is led by Osama bin Laden. They are just teamed up with the Taliban in Afghanistan. It's two
separate groups. Yes. The foreign Taliban have more of the mental state of al Qaeda. Okay, to where
they will kill anyone in anything to get what they want. Yeah, which is Sharia law. Now General

(19:48):
Dostam, he has spies all around that are using satellite phones to relay Taliban movements. One
of his spies in Mazar had called to tell him that there was a large force of about 1000 Taliban
fighters with tanks and military vehicles headed through the Tianyi gap down to their current
position. Nelson and Spencer knew that Dostam was eager to win and destroy the Taliban, but they

(20:11):
didn't realize he meant right at this moment. Nelson and Spencer talked it over quickly and
decided that they would go with him. They could bring six men on six horses. They had 15 minutes
to get their stuff and ride out. Nelson's direct quote, pack your shit. We're going to the front
lines. So it's like you've landed and you're here. Dostam's here. We're going bingo. Yes,

(20:36):
basically, they landed. They maybe slept for three, four hours through the night anxiously
waiting for General Dostam to come. Dostam shows up introduces himself and says, All right, we're
going. Yep. And these guys are like, Wait a minute. Hold up. We just got here. We don't know
where we're going. You know, how we're getting there on horseback. Yeah. And we're going to get into

(20:58):
some of that in a minute here too. But it's just funny. Nelson's like, back to shit. We're going.
Yep. We got 15 minutes. Now, Sergeant First Class Sam Diller looked at Captain Nelson asking him
how they were getting there in which his response was horses. Diller responds dumbfounded like,

(21:18):
really? Really? Horses? That's not how they trained with horses. No. The members of the
Special Forces team had barely any riding experience. And if any, it was as simple as like
horseback riding. Yeah, like, we're going to go trail riding. Right. Nothing. You're going to sit
on a walking horse. Right. Now before Nelson could even call out to Dostam to not head out

(21:43):
without them, the warlord and his men were gone. Like, Hey, let's go keep up. Yep. And these guys
are like, We don't know how to ride. Yeah, just hop on and you'll figure it out. And also, they
don't teach there's not like a training in the military of horse riding. The only one that there

(22:05):
is is for it's based in Colorado that I read in this book. And I didn't really add it to the episode,
but it was a side note is that like there is a training that military can do in Colorado, but
it's not for this. No. So I wouldn't imagine so. So this is wild. Like, Hey, just throw them into a
situation. Now they have to figure out how to ride a horse and also fight. People might think

(22:29):
like, Oh, yeah, horseback riding is not that hard. But it is challenging. It's not that easy,
especially when the horses are going fast. Like you need to, I mean, I've been riding horses since
I was five, but it's not it's not that easy. I was just about to say, Audrey's talking with

(22:53):
experience. She's been riding horses for a long time. So like she's not talking out of her butt
here. And I'm not a pro by any means, but she knows how to ride. I know how to ride, but not
to the abilities that Audrey can. And like I can't even imagine doing like riding and having to be

(23:14):
prepared to fight. Yeah. And then shoot. Yeah. And she's like riding a horse and shooting a
carbine rifle. Yeah, because then you have no hands semi auto to automated rifle that's kicking
back on you while you're riding a horse. Yeah, that that it would be extremely challenging,
especially for someone who has never gotten on horse before. Like short story out at Audrey's

(23:39):
dad's old house in Stingboat, Colorado, they had two horses Apache and Bobo Apache was a tall,
what was white? Very tall, very tall, like 16 hands. Yeah, 15 or 16, which horses are counted
by hands with height, but that's a tall, pretty tall horse. Yeah. And also I am not. And that was

(24:01):
probably one of the first times I had ridden Apache off the property. Because I always rode
Bo and my stepmom would ride Apache because that's her horse. And he she had him since he was a
baby and Bo, they got as an older horse and he was a trail rider. So very calm, very just chill

(24:27):
horse and Apache is they call them the wild child. Yeah, he was wild. No, and that's the whole point
of the story is that we're we're riding these two horses on just the streets, right? I mean,
this is rural Colorado, dirt road, dirt roads. And we're riding up the hill and around the
neighborhood down the hill and we come to like one of the main roads back to the house. And
Audrey stepmom calls Apache in. Oh my God. And Apache just takes off with Audrey. And he's so

(24:55):
fast. And he's yeah, I mean, like, take off. And me and Bobo, like Bo's like, Oh, great. Now I want
to go fast. And there's me on the back of Bobo and I'm just pulling on his reins. Like I am just
pulling on him to stop like getting into almost like what a trot or a canter. Probably close to a

(25:16):
canter probably close to a canter, right? And I'm just like, I don't have that much experience
riding horses. And I'm like afraid to take off on this thing. I'm not wearing helmets or anything.
We're just like, you know, trail walking. And Audrey just goes flying on Apache. And didn't he
like didn't Apache like jump over the ditch? Yeah, there was a ditch and then he jumped and I'm
like, I am almost not prepared for this either. Like I'm he is such a strong and big horse. And

(25:41):
that's not what I'm used to. And again, I'm not a pro rider. And yes, I have experience riding
horses, but not on a regular basis. So like that like freaked me out too, because I'm like, Oh,
gosh, I can't control this. Right. And then there's me, I finally get Bobo to slow down. And then
we just walk the maybe quarter mile, the rest of the way. And we get back and I was like, Holy

(26:03):
shit. Like what the hell was that? What happened? Like, thank you for calling in the horse when I
was not ready for that. Oh, man, I'm just glad Bobo was, you know, short and stocky. Yeah,
because I don't think he wanted to move that quick. But he was like, Yeah, let's go. And then he
realized well, and he's a trail horse. So he's a follower. So he's going to do what is in front of

(26:26):
him. And yeah, that was that was funny. That was a good time. Anyway, all right, back to the story.
So these horses are not big and broad, strong types like we just talked about Apache, you're
probably like when we're telling the story like soldiers on horses, you're probably thinking
like, Oh, they're riding like some of the best horses in the world. No, Afghan horses are not

(26:49):
big, broad and strong. They are more like pack mules. So stocky short, knobby knees, not ideal for
large American soldiers who weigh, you know, 180 to 220 pounds. The saddles on these horses are
also not comfortable. They're not like saddles how we know them. They are actually wooden planks on

(27:10):
a rug with makeshift stirrups attached to the wood planks. Yeah, that doesn't sound comfortable at
all. No, so these guys are sitting just on like a flat wooden plank with these metal stirrups. And
it's funny because they the soldiers knees like dug in the book portrays their knees pretty much
sitting at their throat or like by their ears. Yeah, so they're like crunched up like these big

(27:35):
guys crunched up on these small horses, make shift saddles. And like I was talking about earlier,
the average Afghan weighs about 140 pounds. The special forces are more like 200 plus. And the
soldiers had to grab on to the main of the horse with one hand because there's no pommel to balance.
And then they held the reins and the other. Yeah, that just sounds so not only not only are these

(27:58):
guys that have no riding experiences, right? They don't have the equipment of normal riding. Yeah,
like Western riding, yeah, like Western riding, like the pommel, right? The you know, if you don't
know what a pommel is, it's the horn on the front of the saddle. And then like adjustable stirrups,
so you're comfortable, right? Like, and then you can hold the reins and like, you know, be comfortable.
And it's more like a seat, like a Western saddle is fairly comfortable. It's not ideal, especially,

(28:23):
I mean, not that I know, but like for a man, maybe not as comfortable. No, I have permanent bruises
in between my legs from taking off on Bobo that day. So Nelson saw Dostum nowhere in sight,
and followed the dust path in front of them as they left. As they rode to D high, the men rode
through villages that were similar to an old Wild West ghost town. The Taliban had wiped out families,

(28:45):
destroyed homes, poisoned water wells, and ran everyone else out of these villages. Dostum's men
rode up behind them at a crossroads and took the lead showing the soldiers the way. Now, when they
entered the village of D high, there was a large crowd excited to see the Americans coming through.
They were cheering and running up to them, welcoming them. However, Mitch Nelson made sure to tell his

(29:06):
men to stay locked and loaded and watch out for anyone who may be a suicide bomber. An army of
forgotten soldiers of the Afghan army lined the road holding AK 47s and RPGs. This army made up of
men dressed in ragged uniforms were left behind after fighting the Soviet Union during their
invasion of the Cold War. Nelson thought we're definitely going to need you guys now. The team

(29:29):
was on edge waiting for someone to pop a shot at them and to avert away from this chaotic crowd.
The team veered off the main road through a set of houses. The team acknowledged that Dostum had
led them through the streets of D high to show the power that was here to fight off the Taliban.
So those are all supporters, correct, but you never know if there's someone in disguise.

(29:53):
And just to clarify the men that I was talking about who are lining the streets,
their allies. These these are forgotten soldiers from the Soviet era who have not fought since
the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan. But they know that the Americans are there now and they
are there to join Dostum's men and help them fight the Taliban in the region. Now Nelson's team

(30:14):
crossed the Daria Soof River and started up on a trail to climb the mountain. The trail on the right
side was the wall of the mountain and to the left a direct 1000 foot drop into the valley. Now
when I read this part, it reminded me of our horseback ride when we were in Estes Park.
Okay, yeah. Remember how we took some of those trails up and we were looking down like this is
kind of sketchy. Yeah. So listen to this. The path is about two feet wide and the horses maneuver

(30:41):
them amazingly well as ours did. Yep. As they came up to the flat area on a ridge, the men looked
out over the landscape of the valleys and mountains. They continued on to catch up to Dostum
and find the mountaintop headquarters that they were seeking. This is where Dostum was
leading them to is this new mountaintop headquarters where they would now enter the fight from.

(31:03):
As they came down another hill on the mountain, Nelson spotted three trenches dug out most likely
as a fighting position from the Soviet invasion during the Cold War. The trenches were about
waist deep and face north, the perfect spot to fire a weapon from. At the top of another hill,
there were three caves where they spotted Dostum standing in front of the men rode up to the caves

(31:24):
and dismounted a few of them bleeding from the saddle. I know the feeling a few of them not being
able to stand up straight from the ride. Also know that feeling. Sometimes it's the couch for me as well.
We're sitting at the restaurant. We're sitting at the restaurant with Sopko yesterday. We both got
up and are like hips. Basically gave up just gave out Dostum motion to his men to help the soldiers

(31:49):
bring the rucksacks into the cave. They would be quartering it. The caves are described as comfortable
and warm horse dung. So horse poop was hanging on the wall and made for a fuzzy insulation.
Yeah, that's awful. The walls were about 25 feet apart and the men had about four feet of headroom.

(32:09):
So like the description of these caves though is more comfortable than the Alamo
where they the safe house they were just at. They have more headroom here, right? Tall men.
Yeah, they say it's very warm and humid in there. So like you can sleep well. Yeah. You're not
getting the cold nights of the valley. So the caves minus the horse shit on the wall.

(32:33):
Yeah, I was gonna say that's not ideal, but I mean tolerable. That's there for the insulation so
that they could keep them keep them warm in there. Yeah. So I say because I feel like a cave could
be pretty cold and you get used to the smell of manure pretty quick. Yeah, like it stinks at
first like even out here where we live when the wind blows a certain way you get the stink. But

(32:54):
then it's like it's in your nose for maybe 10 minutes and then you're kind of like yeah,
it is what it is. I'm yeah, I've been used to that smell for a long time. It doesn't really bother me.
And we're not city people that would complain about that. Nope. Overlooking the valley,
they were about 8000 feet from the valley floor and about 10 miles from the hills across. So to
give you kind of a visual of what this landscape looks like. Dostum had held off the Taliban from

(33:20):
taking his high ground and operated from this mountaintop headquarters often. The path of this
spot was too narrow for any vehicles. And he knew that the Taliban did not have horses to ride up
to the headquarters. Horses are definitely an advantage here for Dostum and his men and the
special forces because there's areas the Taliban cannot go unless they're on foot. Yeah, they

(33:45):
can't bring faster, right? And they can't bring their tanks up there. They can't bring our armored
vehicles and heavy machine guns. Like they would have to trek them out and on foot and that's tiring.
So it's not a it's a huge disadvantage for the Taliban to try and attack this headquarters.
This position also allowed the Northern Alliance to have high ground and his men were able to
target the Taliban as they made their way through the valley below. Now the main Taliban commander

(34:09):
that Dostum despised was Mullah Faisal, who was holding Kala Ijangi, the fortress that we're going
to talk about later in Mazar. He had around 10,000 men under his command. In the Darya Suf valley,
Mullah Razak was next in command of the Taliban and had roughly 3000 to 5000 men in the Taliban
5th Corps. Atam Muhammad was battling them in the adjacent bulk valley as well. Dostum pointed

(34:34):
across the valley to a Taliban location. Nelson looked through his monoculars but couldn't spot
any enemies through the lenses. Nelson admits to Dostum he cannot see anything and Dostum then
points the exact featured cut in the mountains where they are located. Nelson knows he cannot
bomb the Taliban from where they are. They are too far away. Dostum tells him they cannot get

(34:55):
any closer and that they would have to figure it out from the headquarters. The reason they cannot
bomb from the headquarters is because they are too far to zero in coordinates for the aircraft above.
Dostum doesn't understand the technology that we're using and believes it should be as easy
just to drop a bomb on any location but it's definitely much more complicated than that.

(35:16):
Now Nelson, not wanting to argue with the warlord, agrees to drop some sort of ordinance. He does this
just to make Dostum happy. Dostum believes that from what he has heard American bombs can be guided
to hit wherever. This is partially true but it's definitely not magic. Nelson had to make sure that
this was a Taliban outpost and not a rival faction's hideout like Atas or Moa Kecks. Nelson did not

(35:40):
want to be tricked into taking out Dostum's rivals with the power of the US military.
That would not be good. No, it would not. At this point, Dostum held up his Motorola radio and
started yelling into it. Nelson heard angry voices in chatter come across the feed and Dostum says,
I am here with the Americans and they have come to kill you. What do you think about that?

(36:05):
I think that's so funny and he's communicating with the enemy.
Yeah, they pick up their radio transmissions and it's hysterical because like I said,
they're just talking shit to each other like, I'm gonna kill you.
Yeah, look at me now. I'm pretty sure like in the book too, Doug writes about,
I think there's a communication where I think it's Dostum had once, like he bets

(36:32):
the Taliban guy's mother, like taking his mother on a date that he was gonna beat
him in this like battle or something. I'd have to go back and read it again.
But it was something like that and I started laughing because I was like, that's just ridiculous.
That is.
The radio transmission came in even louder with shouting. Nelson is absolutely shocked that
Dostum is talking directly to his enemies like we were just talking about. He even asked them

(36:55):
to confirm their position and they actually do. Which is also like insane. Just ridiculous.
Like yep, yep, we're here right here. We're right here. Just bomb me.
Well, I don't think they, I don't think, I mean, they believe them now, right?
Well, yeah. At this point, Nelson is trying to figure out his path north through the valley.
He points out specific villages that need to be captured to advance and make the Taliban retreat.

(37:17):
First, they needed to take Chepchol, then move their way into Baluk, pushing the Taliban up the
river. After that, they needed to reach the village of Shulgure and make their way through the gap
onto Mazar al-Sharif.
Now Dostum again pushed Nelson to bomb from the headquarters in which Nelson shrugged his
shoulders and pretty much just said, fuck it, we'll try it.

(37:42):
Yeah. We have a third guest today. Yeah, she's in the background. She's in her play pen,
chewing on her Sophie giraffe. Ms. Kennedy, Joe and everyone. We'll go from her nap.
And we just said, let's see if we can finish this with her playing in there as she just

(38:03):
whacked herself in the face. The groom also just got here. So if we need to, we have back up.
True. Now Nelson looked down at his GPS and started to write down coordinates.
Then Dostum pulled out his giant map and Nelson began to do some mathematics to find the coordinates
of the Taliban hideout. He targeted them in about five miles from the headquarters. He used his
fingers and walked them across the map to dial in distance and elevation of the hideout. Now on

(38:28):
the Google maps, you can see this directly. You can see where the hideout is approximately.
And you can see the Taliban's location of this bunker approximately.
The Taliban. Okay. I think I have that. Okay. Yeah. So mountaintop headquarters.

(38:52):
Mm hmm. And then Taliban bunker. That's yeah, that's pretty far. Yeah, it's about five miles
from each other. Just about maybe just under. Now Nelson looked up and saw the B 52 bomber,
a little speck in the sky circling above. Nelson radioed the coordinates up to the pilot and prayed
he didn't screw this up. The pilot radioed back pickle, pickle, pickle, which means bombs away.

(39:17):
The bomb was 30 seconds out. The bomb that is being dropped is known as a quote unquote smart bomb.
So basically, what's a dumb bomb are the bombs that were dropped in World War Two,
when they would just fly over and their bombardier in the back would scope in on it and then say
bombs away and they would just fall and explode. Right. These smart bombs are the technology

(39:40):
where they are coordinated and computerized to hit a specific point. Okay. Using GPS and other
technology. So like, did they, did they have to call the bomber in and there was just one on
standby? Yeah. So they call them in and they're circling above ready to drop. Those planes are

(40:01):
obviously faster than helicopters. They can come really quick. Okay. In a moment's notice, there
was a giant explosion and then just after the sound of the explosion hit them, a mushroom cloud
plumed up into the sky. He looked back through his binoculars and realized that the bomb was way
off target. Only about halfway between them and the Taliban bunker. Yeah. Nelson was worried that

(40:22):
Dawson was going to be upset and notice the big mistake in the drop. However, when Nelson turned
around, the men were high fiving, laughing and smiling. Nelson just kept the mistake to himself
as a second bomb erupted in the distance. This one too had fallen short of the Taliban stronghold.
So Dawson just thought it hit in the right spot. Dawson doesn't care. Okay. Dawson just

(40:46):
wanted bombs to fall out of the sky and explode so that the Taliban knew that the Americans were
here and there was something coming for them. Okay. We'll get into that in a second. Now the
Taliban came out of the bunker looking around wondering where the explosions were coming from.
Nelson figured he had the coordinates right and maybe the pilot had made a mistake punching in
the numbers. He corrected the elevation and called to the pilot for a third bomb. This one hit no

(41:11):
less than 600 feet away from the bunker. The Taliban were running all around wondering where in the
hell these explosions were coming from. Giant craters formed in the mountain sides. Two more
bombs fell way off target again and Nelson yelled for the pilot to cease fire. Nelson looking
disappointed nearly started his apology to Dawson. But one of Dawson's men noticing Nelson was upset

(41:33):
told him not to worry. You just made bombs fall out of the sky and the Taliban are terrified.
Dawson continued to laugh into his radio shouting quote I told you the Americans were here. How do
you like me now? End quote. So Dawson doesn't care if he's really on target or not. Yeah. He just
wants the Taliban to be mentally freaked out like they're here for you. There's not men on horses

(42:01):
anymore shooting at us. There's big bombs just falling out of nowhere. Yeah. Like and you have no
idea. Yeah. I'm sorry if my voice is cracking but for some reason again I'm not sick it just
feels like in my throat that I have some like nasal drip.
Nelson now finding his way in the conversation to prove himself asked them to get him closer to

(42:22):
the target so he can prove what he can actually do. Dawson like Nelson's determination and wondered
what other choice he had and agreed to get Nelson closer. The next morning they took a four hour
ride on the horses to an outpost called Kobaki. This ride was rough for the Americans. The outpost
was only two miles from the mountain headquarters however because of the terrain they needed to go

(42:43):
a long way around and it was about five miles. Staff Sergeant Fred Falls horse leapt off the
trail ignoring the path and started running straight down the face of the mountain.
Yep. He had leaned all the way back in the saddle his feet almost in the air yelling quote I don't
want to die and quote again more comic relief from Doug in his writing. The horse finally made it to

(43:07):
the flat ground where it walked in a circle. Dawson joked that Falls was the finest horseman he'd
never seen in which Falls sarcastically thanked him. From Kobaki Nelson now was only two miles
from his target and started to prepare the bomb strike. Nelson spotted through his binoculars
a bunch of Toyota pickups Taliban tanks and other Soviet era armored vehicles that had been left

(43:28):
behind that the Taliban had possession of. Nelson wanted Dawson's men to attack right away however
Dawson insisted they attack later in the day so that when they run out of daylight they know the
Taliban cannot regroup and counterattack so strategy there. Dawson wanted to use the cover
of nightfall to protect his men. Nelson called the first aircraft of the day. Nelson was sure his

(43:50):
coordinates were accurate and sure enough boom bomb strike. Direct hit sending armored vehicles
and pickup trucks flying in the air. Second bomb came in and exploded taking out even more of the
Soviet era armored artillery. So why why was it so hard to get the coordinates right that first time?

(44:14):
Because he was specifically using an elevation map and distance from a further distance and it makes
it less accurate. And you have to remember this is not like on the ground it's not five miles away
directly on the ground like that would be easy to do in GPS coordinates. You have to mathematically
do an equation of height of where the bunker is and hit it on almost like an angle. So there's a

(44:40):
lot more to it and from further away it's harder to zero in on and if you're closer right you know
your elevation yeah so you can zero in more closely. So it's a lot of math it sounds like.
Yeah it is. Nelson now directed Dossam to prepare his 1500 men for an attack.
Nelson inquired about the horses and explosions and Dossam assured him the horses would not

(45:04):
have a problem. Across the river Nelson saw in his binoculars about 150 of Dossam's men
riding toward the Taliban position holding AKs and RPGs. Now this first battle that takes place if
you look at your Google Earth is that yellow point. Okay just to yep just to the left of the

(45:25):
Taliban bunker. That's where this first engagement is going to happen. The radio started to come
alive with Dossam speaking Uzbek and giving orders. Then he gave the command to charge.
Nelson watched from the other side and saw the NA soldiers riding high in their saddles at full
speed and screaming. The horsemen were riding up and down hills out of sight of the Taliban.

(45:47):
Once they entered the flat field about 200 yards out the Taliban opened fire on them.
Bullets whizzed past the northern alliance soldiers heads as they fired back at the Taliban outpost.
Nelson saw men getting hit by gunfire fall back in their saddle and go limp being carried by their
horses. Some men who had fallen off their horses or partly wounded reached up grabbing a passing

(46:08):
soldier's arm and were wrangled up on the back of the horse. Nelson watched the Taliban tanks
lower their guns down to the trail and shoot at the NA horsemen. As the NA soldiers came over the
last ridge they dismounted and began to fire advancing toward the Taliban on foot. This was
covering fire for the second round of horsemen who were following up the rear. As the second wave

(46:29):
passed the first wave they mounted back up and caught up with the advancing second wave. Over
the radio Dostom and his men tuned into the Taliban frequencies. They heard them yelling,
we can't resist we have to move. The attack was so quick that the Taliban dropped their weapons
and ran away from the onslaught of horses charging at them. Horsemen passing by the retreating Taliban

(46:50):
hit them with their rifles. An armored vehicle and a tank were the only threat Nelson saw that
could stop the attack. He called up to a pilot circling overhead to drop the bombs. However,
the pilot radioed that he was quote bingo unquote meaning that he only had enough fuel left to make
it back to base. Nelson begged and pleaded with him to drop a bomb but the jet left the scene.

(47:12):
Nelson was pissed. Oh man. Nelson finally realized something. The tanks and armored vehicles were
arriving from the west. They were not set up already with the Taliban outposts that they would
encounter. So in order to win these battles Nelson would split up the team again in order for them
to take out the tanks before they could make it to the assault positions. Sam Diller was the man

(47:33):
for this job. He would have to infiltrate behind Taliban lines to call in direct air support to
take out the tanks before they made it to these attacks. So bombing the tanks hitting the tanks
and armored vehicles before they could get to the outposts that they were attacking. Now up at K2
base central command had made the decision to send two air force personnel to assist on the ground

(47:55):
calling in aircraft to bomb targets. Essex was not happy with this decision because now he had to
find two more horses for these guys. However, Sergeant's Mick Winehouse and Sonny Tatum were
bringing with them what is called the SOFLAM. This device painted a laser on a target in which the
falling bomb would respond in order for a direct hit. This made things quicker and easier than

(48:16):
plotting coordinates and calling in strikes. Now they just had to point an aim. So these bombs,
these smart bombs, using the SOFLAM device, they pull a trigger almost like shooting a gun and the
laser goes and hits a point and the bomb meets the end of that laser. Oh that's really smart.
Very accurate too. Yeah. Setting up for a second assault, General Dostom realizes that the Taliban

(48:40):
had reinforced themselves and that this next battle would be much larger than the day before.
However, if Dostom could win this battle, he knew that the Taliban would retreat all the way back
to Mazar and that moving through the rest of the valley would be much easier. At the beginning of
the second attack, JJ Sawyer, Mike Spann, Mitch Nelson, and General Dostom would all follow the
attack. Dostom laid out the plan. Horsemen would be charging straight on while infantry on foot

(49:05):
would attack from the sides. Machine guns on top of the hills would spray for cover fire.
Now Dostom yells in his radio, charge and the assault begins. Horsemen galloping directly at
the Taliban front as men ran in from the sides. Dostom took off on his horse and the Americans
had no choice but to follow. And oh shit moment. As Nelson rode behind Dostom, he heard the whizzing

(49:29):
of bullets passing his head at an alarming rate and horsemen flying off of their saddles being
hit by AK rounds. He radioed back to Sergeant First Class Fern Michaels, who was manning the radio
to the pilots to drop bombs immediately. As the bombs hit, Dostom's men gained morale and cheered.
The ones hiding in the grass stood up and started to fight again. Those on foot ran even faster

(49:54):
toward the Taliban line as it started to crumble. Nelson was shocked to even see the Taliban running
toward Dostom's men with their hands up in surrender. Now some of these men who were surrendering
fell dead being shot by their own Taliban comrades for being cowards. So again, the difference between
the Afghan Taliban and foreign Taliban. The Afghan Taliban are probably the ones with their hands up

(50:15):
surrendering. I'll help you. And the foreign Taliban are shooting them in the back. About 600 men had
started this assault and now only 300 remained. The other half either dead or wounded. Now Dostom
was irate. He yelled into his radio, we are losing attack attack. But his men did not advance.

(50:35):
Dostom dismounted his horse, reached into a saddlebag and pulled out multiple magazines for his AK-47.
Dostom now on foot about 100 yards from the enemy line started running at it and firing.
Nelson looked on in absolute bewilderment, waiting for Dostom to get hit at any moment.
As Dostom passed his own men, cowering and hiding, these men became embarrassed. They all popped up

(51:00):
and started fighting and running with their general as the Americans formed a defensive
perimeter behind Dostom. The Taliban started to panic, dropping their weapons and running away.
Now one Northern Alliance soldier even sawed off a Taliban's head and waved it in the air for victory.
And they had won the fight. I feel like this was a huge clusterfuck. It was. You want to know why?

(51:21):
Because there's strategy here, but it's not. It's guerilla warfare. There's no,
like there is strategy, but like it's just a hot mess. absolute hot mess express.
Now back in the States, news had finally broken about the Americans on the ground in Afghanistan.
It was reported that the NA could not defeat the Taliban because they were outnumbered and

(51:42):
ill-equipped. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, very famous name in recent US history,
inquired with Mulholland back at K2 as to why no progress was being made.
Essentially, the email pretty much said in Nelson's words, quote,
When are you guys going to get off your ass and do something? unquote.

(52:03):
Now Nelson was pissed after a long day of fighting a successful battle and decided that he would go
to bed, cool down and answer the email in the morning. However, through the night,
he could not get that email out of his head. And he just kept stirring in his sleeping bag.
Nelson got up, opened his laptop, and he began to type faster and faster and rage.

(52:23):
However, his words were actually calm and direct. With a little bit of sarcasm in the tone of the
email, Nelson explained that they were doing their best with what they had and have actually
been quite successful. He explained how horses are being utilized in tough terrain and how the
NA is fighting like a civil war military against a modern day military. Right? Because I mean,

(52:44):
yeah, the special forces are on the side of the NA who are literally just using horseback to get
around while the Taliban have tanks, Soviet era vehicles and automated large weapons.
As Nelson and Dostam had pushed the Taliban in retreat, Captain Dean Nosarog and the second
team got word at K2. It was their turn to go in. They would be meeting up with Atomohab Noor

(53:06):
at his stronghold, overlooking the village of Ak Capruk, 10 miles west of the Alamo,
where team one had been based. The stronghold overlooked the Daria bulk river valley, which
we talked about earlier. This eventually joins with the Daria Suf just to the north. So these two
valleys intersect into one river. Both teams would fight their way to the village of Pol Ibarak,

(53:28):
where the rivers join. From here, the teams will move their way up the bulk river valley to the
town of Shugara, which would be the key to advancing to Mazar. From Shugara, the final hot spot would
be the Tiangi Gap, which would get the teams out of the mountains and into the desert of northern
Afghanistan. Did you like look up how to like say all these words? No, I feel like it's very

(53:50):
difficult, but you're doing, I feel like a good job at pronouncing them. I think it's just my
experience reading history books and reading news about this kind of stuff. And I don't know,
I like to think I'm not the best person with English, but I'm good at pronouncing things.

(54:12):
Or at least close enough. I hope Doug Stanton listens to this. And during our phone call,
maybe he'll be like, dude, you just pronounced everything wrong. But I'm doing my best. Okay.
But yeah, I don't know. I just kind of go with it and make it sound. I think you're doing it.
I think if you pronounce it with confidence, no one can question you. That's true.

(54:37):
Now the team left the Alamo and started to move their base up river advancing to the north after
these victorious battles. Around this time, Dean Nasser Agana's team were finally arriving
at Ata's base camp on a Chinook helicopter just like the first team did. Dean was in for a culture
shock as he was amazed at what the Afghan soldiers were wearing. He noticed that the train was awful,

(54:58):
ice everywhere and cold. As Dean and his team met Ata, the Chinook took off and headed 10 miles
to the east to drop off Major Mark Mitchell and Lieutenant Colonel Bowers at Dostom's headquarters.
They were met by Mitch Nelson and Vern Michaels when they landed. Along with the men, they rolled
off two six wheel John Deere Gators. These were to help with the lack of horses for more men.

(55:23):
Now that Bowers was there, he would be Dostom's liaison, not Nelson anymore. Now Ata explained to
Dean that he had been fighting in this area since the days of the Soviets and that soldiering was a
family business. All three of his brothers had fought against the Soviets and lived and now
we're fighting against a Taliban. So I'm interjecting, but I have a question. Yeah. So like these men

(55:46):
like Ata and Dostom, like how old would you say that they are? So what they say in the book is
that they look like they're in their 60s and they're in their late 30s, early 40s. Oh God. Yeah.
So time has taken a toll on them after all of these wars and stuff. They call their skin
leathery, they're wrinkled. Yeah, if you look them in the eyes, they look like elders, but they're

(56:08):
they're literally I think Dostom it says 38. I'm not sure about Ata. I don't remember reading how
old he actually was. But the the explanation of Dostom is that he's a 38 year old man that looks
like he's like in his 60s. Ata proclaimed that he had been trying to tell the world of the Taliban's
terrorist ways. And now that the Americans were in Afghanistan, the world was actually listening.

(56:30):
He explained how his men use the terrain to their advantage in this area, moving supplies and
themselves throughout the valley without detection from the Taliban. Dean took out a map and Ata
started to point out targets being held by the Taliban. One village called Lalami would be the
next Taliban stronghold to be bombed. There was an ongoing battle at Akhapruk, just over the ridge

(56:53):
from where they were staying from Ata's headquarters. But the Taliban had started to move out toward
Lalami to the north. Now Dean's plan was to ride down to Akhapruk and bomb the surrounding Taliban
bunkers while Ata's men attack the actual village. This would push the Taliban completely out of
their area. With the help of Ata's men, Dean and his team stayed the night in a man's home just

(57:18):
outside of Akhapruk, who is part of what is called the auxiliary. The auxiliary is a group of resistance
fighters who supported Ata and the war against the Taliban. From here the team would stay the night
and then ride out in the morning to set up bomb strikes. As they rode, they had to maneuver
around many mines placed on the ground, a task that would make them all anxious and weary that at

(57:43):
any moment they could be blown to pieces. After they rode an hour uphill, they dug in behind a rock
where they could see the Taliban bunker just across the way. Dean asked one of the local men
trailing with them if that bunker belonged to friends or the enemy. The man simply replied,
quote, Taliban, unquote. So enemy. Yep. Now Dean and Staff Sergeant Donnie Boyle of the US Air Force

(58:07):
had a moral dilemma they had to diffuse. Just as Nelson had to trust the word of Dostum to bomb
Taliban bunkers and make sure they were not rival factions bunkers, Dean and Donnie had to do the
same. Donnie claimed he would not drop bombs on a bunker without knowing for sure that this was
Taliban and not innocent people of another rival faction, say Dostums. Dean responded to Donnie,

(58:30):
quote, How do you know this man is not the enemy unquote, in which Donnie replies, quote, Well,
I don't unquote. And Dean says, quote, Exactly. But he is standing here and telling us that those
motherfuckers over there are the bad guys. And quote, he then explains to Donnie there's no way of
telling who is good from bad in this war. And they would have to take some chances with little

(58:52):
information they have. Donnie agreed to drop the bombs. The men staying behind were ordered to
bring forward the so flam so that device that projects the laser Dean, just as Nelson did,
wanted to impress his warlord. In this case, it's auto. The first bomb they dropped inexplicably flew
off target and hit a nearby bunker, an embarrassing miss with such technology. Dean then realized

(59:16):
it wasn't the technology's fault, but rather the haze in the air was bending the laser's
light and not painting an accurate target. You know what I mean? Like the dust is bending the
light from the so flam. And it's not projecting it on the actual target. It's skewing the light
off course. As daylight faded, they saw fires down in the village. The Taliban were lighting homes

(59:37):
on fire. The men couldn't do anything without blowing their cover. So they rode back to
Ata's headquarters. There, Ata exclaimed that Dostums men were not yet in place so they could
not attack a Kapruk in the morning. Dean at this point seeing the town burn and the innocent women
and children suffering was beyond frustrated. Yeah. Back at Dostums camp, the final assault

(59:59):
on Balook was being put in place. Stu Mansfield ordered the drop of the blue 82, otherwise known
as the motherfucker of all bombs. Nice. Which if you I don't know if you remember back then,
but they called it Moab, MOAB. And grunt style has a shirt that says Moab on it. And that's what

(01:00:19):
that means the motherfucker of all bombs. This is the largest non nuclear ordinance that the United
States arsenal has. When the bomb was dropped on Balook, Sergeant First Class Brian Lyle was trying
to find a place to relieve himself when he saw a giant flash out of the corner of his eye, followed
by a large sonic boom. A mushroom cloud filled the sky. Another bomb was released and the same

(01:00:43):
explosion occurred for the second time. Down in Aka Pruk, Toyota pick up truck headlights
shined speeding away from the village. The power of these bombs had even more terrified the tail
band in the area. And the teams believed they were retreating further north toward Mazar.
However, out in the East, Master Sergeant Pat Essex and Sergeant First Class Ben Milo were using

(01:01:07):
the so flam to target another Taliban bunker. As the bomb dropped Milo begged for the bomb to
blow up. He's like, please, please, please, please, please, my target, my target. Yep.
As the bomb hit and shattered the Taliban bunker Milo jumped up out of excitement,
giving the giant smoking hole in the ground the middle finger.
Just then Taliban machine gun fire erupted around their location. They were under attack.

(01:01:33):
Oh, no. And you're gonna have to wait.
Another cliffhanger. Until next week, part three, to see what happens after they drop the motherfucker
of all bombs and the Taliban respond. Are they going to make it up the rest of the valley

(01:01:53):
through the Tianyi gap to Mazar? Next week's episode is going to be crazy.
I bet. Just so everyone knows. I think part two was pretty intense because we got some action out
of it. We got some comic relief out of our special forces having to learn how to ride horses.

(01:02:15):
Next week gets into more of the final stretch up to Shagara and through the Tianyi gap to the
fortress of Kalai Zhangi and then the city of Mazar as well. So you're not going to want to
miss next week's episode part three where we're going to finish this off. And then after that,
please look out for the interview with author Doug Stanton of horse soldiers and the Hollywood film

(01:02:40):
12th Strong. I'm so excited to do that interview and get his perspective on writing the book and
his experiences talking with the special forces who were involved in the story and also his trip
to Afghanistan to see the areas that we're talking about in this podcast. So please look out for that.
I trust me. I will blow it up on Facebook and Instagram and all social media. Also,

(01:03:05):
we're on YouTube now. Just so everyone knows YouTube, we are posting episodes on YouTube
as another platform that you can listen on. And we're going to start doing some videos soon.
Yeah, I've got some blooper reels that we're going to do. We start videoing because
obviously we don't get through this recording in just one take. My voice cracks. I say things

(01:03:29):
wrong. Audrey laughs. See my voice just cracked again. Things happen. I ask really stupid questions
sometimes. Not always stupid, but like just inquiring like basic questions. But sometimes we
ramble and I've started to save those and add them to like a bloopers reel. So just kind of like a
side thing to, you know, give listeners an insight as to how we actually record these things. Yeah.

(01:03:54):
Because no, they're not all done perfectly in one take in one hour. So well, I hope everyone
enjoys your weekend again. As we always say, relax, kick back, have a drink or two. Enjoy the
nicer weather that's coming with spring. Oh, can't wait. At least here in Illinois, it's starting
to get better. We're getting through our third winter. This past week in spring is finally about

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to sprung. Spring has not quite sprung yet. It's hopefully hopefully on its way. We hope you enjoyed
the eclipse on Monday and we're able to see it. Pretty cool astronomical event. That doesn't
happen often. So again, enjoy your weekend. Thank you for listening to history on the rocks podcast.

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Anything else? Nope. Bye. Cheers.