Horse Soldiers Part 4: The Fortress

We finish up the Horse Soldier series with the intense battle at the Qala-I-Jangi fortress. The Taliban have tricked the NA and American's to believe they are surrendering. What follows leaves one American dead and the fate of Afghanistan at risk

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
The following four parts of this series are an adaptation of Doug Stanton's Horse Soldiers,

(00:04):
a number one New York Times bestseller.
Paraphrasing of the published work is used with credit to the author.
Some of the names in this story are pseudonyms to protect the identity of those involved.
The comments and reactions displayed in this podcast do not reflect the opinions or views of the author.

(00:46):
Hello everyone and welcome back to the History on the Rocks podcast. This is your host Cody and
of course joining me my lovely wife Audrey. Hello everybody.
Oh well here we are the finale part four of Horse Soldiers. This episode is called The Fortress.

(01:13):
What are we drinking tonight? Again, had a few glasses of wine at a family party so
not drinking Horse Soldier again tonight. Yes but we're still promoting Horse Soldiers throughout
this whole series even though we're not technically drinking it tonight. No. But we are unofficially

(01:37):
sponsoring them. We are not getting paid by them or anything but we just wanted to put the whiskey
out there with the book because they go hand in hand. Yeah and it's very good. But tonight I am
having a blue moon again. Yeah that's a good one. I can't go wrong with blue moon. I am drinking
Coors banquet again. Nice. It's a I don't know. I'm just not in the mood for whiskey as we record

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this later. At night beer is just better right now. Where we left off with part three. We were
talking about how the teams got through the gap in a ambush of Rocketfire. They made it to
the gates the city of Mazar and they also had a mishap at the school the Sultan Sultan Rizia

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school debacle with both teams coming in and trying to handle the situation and not knowing
the other ones were there. Yeah that like communication component was lacking. There was a communication
breakdown there in which almost cost some lives. Definitely cost some Afghani lives the Northern
Alliance soldiers with the miscommunication of Autisman being in that schoolhouse and then

(02:53):
the team working with Dostom calling in airstrikes and blowing that building the bits
or cliffhanger where we left you where we're going to start part four is that Dostom had just made
this deal with one of the commanders of the Taliban and they were sending 600 men over to

(03:13):
surrender and again that cliffhanger one American is dead in the fortress after an ambush and there
is a long fight to take control of Kalaijangi so that is where we are starting today with part four
looking forward to it yeah and just a reminder Audrey has not she has no idea what's going on. I

(03:37):
am with the listeners here she is with the listeners I'm the only one who knows what's
going to happen in part four here obviously because I'm writing it and I've read the whole book
we haven't watched the movie yet Audrey hasn't read any of these scripts as we've gone through
these four parts so it's about to get a little crazy I know I'm I'm looking forward to the

(04:01):
ending of this story and to watch the movie and listen to the interview with the author yeah
that's the fun part because today we're dropping this episode on a Tuesday which is
different for us because we usually drop our episodes on Thursday morning but I'm not making you
all wait until Thursday to hear part four because we have an exclusive interview with number one

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New York Times bestselling author Doug Stanton of Whore Soldiers so we're really excited about that
so we're going to be dropping that episode on Thursday as our regular episode for the week
so cap and everything off in a very exciting way here with our four part series of Whore Soldiers
so let's get in to part four because I know you're all just chomping at the bit to know what's

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going to happen here yeah all right so the city of Mazar has this eerie feeling to it the special
forces notice that the citizens were acting nervous and were on alert 600 of those Taliban had
walked and driven the two hours from condoants and were just outside the city limits a completely
unexpected return six large trucks sat running on the highway many of these men were foreign Taliban

(05:16):
who phase all had tricked into returning to Mazar for safe passage to herat we talked about that
in part three Dean Nasir Ag was fast asleep when at 3 a.m one of his team members came bursting in
startling him awake Dean noticed at his light was on in his office which was very unusual for this
you know mid morning Dean got dressed and hurried over to see Ata Dean entered the office and Ata

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unrolled his map across the table Ata read Dean's face which was concerned and had that like what's
wrong kind of look you know when someone remember these two don't speak the same language so a lot
of things in these conversations are like very simple words or hand gestures facial expressions and

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and Dean's just like what's going on so Dean's got this look on his face Ata's like Taliban and al-Qaeda
that's that's what he says Taliban and al-Qaeda that's all he says to him and he starts pointing
at condoants and dragging his finger over towards Mazar on the map and Dean's like here are you
shitting me like they're back we just drove him out of the city and they're already back

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mm-hmm and Dean realizes now that the team's worst nightmare has come true like you've driven
the you've driven these Taliban forces all the way back to condoants you figure that they're there
that they're gonna be you know trapped in condoants and you can push into that city but now they've
retent they're coming back and Dean's like are they retaliating already like this is happening very

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fast it then came in over the wire to CIA officer Garth Rogers that the Taliban were congregated
out by the airfield and wished to surrender the northern alliance had already known the Taliban
were going to show up which is why they were scared and nervous because remember Dostam made this deal
the Americans were left out of the loop pertaining to this knowledge there was fear in the eyes of

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the young northern alliance soldiers and this is when first sergeant Dave Betts realized there was
something extremely wrong with the way that this war is going back at Ata's safe house Dean woke up
Mark House and told him to get dressed there was Taliban outside the city sergeant first class
James Gold driving with Dean by his side was following Ata's convoy out to the surrender site

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they stopped on the side of the highway to get a look of the surrendering men from about a mile away
Dean looking through his binoculars thought shit that's a lot of bad guys as he observes these men
amongst the Taliban he noticed multiple ethnicities and immediately knows that there's foreign
Taliban and al-Qaeda mixed into this group so it's not just afghan Taliban coming to surrender

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there are foreign Taliban and al-Qaeda you know we've been talking about this whole series these
are the men who will fight to the death al-Qaeda yes foreign al-Qaeda foreign Taliban al-Qaeda al-Qaeda
is mixed in here yeah Ata sent one of his men over to the surrendering Taliban to discuss the situation
when the man returned he told Ata that the men wanted to keep their guns in which Ata denied their

(08:18):
request he's like no way you guys are not keeping your guns during a surrender as Ata told Dean
this negotiation of surrender might take a while Dean heard Colonel Bowers and Dostam talking over
his radio Dostam was on his way to the surrender site Dean called up Stu Mansfield on the radio and
told him he needed as many guys as possible to keep guns on these guys during the surrender

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he also wanted Dostam to back off the situation however the radio was not working so yeah there's
this communication breakdown again just like back at the school and so Dean's team being part of Ata's
crew is like why are these Taliban back and what the hell is happening and Dostam he's now approaching
with his convoy to take control of the surrender because he's the one who made it with the Taliban

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so Ata told Dean that the surrender will work but takes time because the Taliban will not want to
give themselves up that easily obviously that makes them look kind of foolish as Dostam approached
Dean noticed more people coming up behind him and his men Dean has this oh shit moment realizes
who they were and it's a big problem it's our favorite people the press 100 reporters total

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followed Dostam to the surrender site 100 reporters that is extreme from all parts of the world in
the book I think it describes more about the ethnicities of like the press but we're talking European
press we're talking Middle Eastern press like from everywhere yeah Dean and his men were now
afraid of their identities being captured by cameras I feel like that's just like not safe the press

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doesn't care about safety they care about the story yeah I get that because I feel like we've seen
kind of some of that with the beginning of Gaza and I'm sure I feel like I saw it more with
or not Gaza but like the Israeli and Palestinian Palestinian conflict and I don't I feel like I

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didn't see as much with like the Ukrainian and Russian war I I guess I probably wasn't paying
as much attention on the news about that at the time but yeah it's just not safe the press is
always just trying to get their story and they are not they a lot of times during these type of

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conflicts they don't care about it's not even their own safety it's it's they don't care about
national security which boggles my mind because if something leaks that the military doesn't want
leaked by the press that puts your soldiers at risk that puts your whole objective at risk yeah
and the the press just doesn't care they're they're in it for the story and the money and it's just

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fucking ridiculous well and that's like just not even war situations or fighting situations it's
just in general the press just does not give a shit about anything but their story right
we could go on a rant about that I was saying that they have a job and they're gonna do their job

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but it's still just like your safety is at risk here yeah 100% I guess it's up to your
own risk if you're if you're in half this job yep now the two warlords are gonna speak directly

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here Otto wants to speak to Dostam and he lets him know that the situation is under control
now Dean followed Otto down the hill to make sure there was not going to be a physical altercation
between the two guys or between the two warlords Dean covered his face with his scarf and tried
to stay as far back as possible hoping his picture wasn't taken Otto and Dostam in conversation kept

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gesturing like I'm in charge yeah no I'm in charge no it's me yeah no me now remember Dostam is
the one who made the steal of surrender back at the fortress Otto has no clue about the surrender
again just to reiterate that point there's a b-52 bomber circling ahead ready to drop bombs at a
moment's notice and Dean knew that this negotiation had to end with the Taliban giving up their weapons

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and anything else on their person that could harm them after two hours the surrender had been complete
the Taliban demanded they be held at the airport which Dostam agreed to if they tried to make a
run for it at least they'd be gunned down before they would be able to get far enough to escape
Dean noticed as the Taliban were being vetted that the northern alliance soldiers
weren't really searching them completely Dean knew there was nothing he could do about it this is

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their surrender they're taking control of the situation the Taliban were giving up their rifles
which were being piled into a truck but what else did they have under their robes that weren't being
searched smaller pistols grenades things like that right sure yeah whatever there's they're still
wearing all these clothes and they're like always covered all the time exactly and they're not doing

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a very good job searching them so they could have anything on them now back at the safe house
major mark mitchell was listening in on the negotiations from his radio and did not like
the idea of holding these men at the airfield but knew there wasn't a big enough prison to hold them
all all of a sudden Dostam had changed his mind now the prisoners were going to be held within the
walls of khali janghi mitchell thought no fucking way he knew that the weapon caches of rpg's rifles

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grenades and rockets were still in abundance at the fortress and they had not finished destroying
them yet so a weapon cache basically at the fortress underground they have these containers
like a pods container just full of weapons from the Taliban when they had control of the fortress
and what the special forces were doing along with any soldiers they were trying to destroy all of

(14:10):
this stuff so that it wouldn't fall back in the Taliban hands but they hadn't completed yet destroying
all of that stuff and having 600 prisoners in the fortress with those weapon caches available to them
could cause a lot of problems right now the americans had been eagerly waiting all morning to

(14:30):
leave for condense but this negotiation had held them behind at 3 p.m. they headed out directly
from the surrender site as dean looked over at the surrounding Taliban he noticed that these men
didn't look defeated or even worried in fact when two trucks pulled up next to brian lyland mark house
they looked like men who were about to enter battle this impression left a bad feeling among the

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americans they knew better that this was anything but an innocent surrender something else had to
be going on the planet condense was to convince the Taliban to surrender so the Taliban that are
in condense not the ones that have just surrendered don't want to don't want to confuse anyone with
that a 10 the americans would create a perimeter about 12 miles outside the city center and receive

(15:15):
prisoners from there like in groups pretty much the americans would call in airstrikes as needed
to further convince the Taliban in the city to surrender or get blown to pieces however everyone
was on edge now that the prisoners back in mazar were being held at khali jhangi if something went
wrong they would be way too far away to get back in time if help were needed now back in mazar at

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the safe house major curt zontag saw the trucks of prisoners drive by he had never seen prisoners
still driving their own vehicles in a surrender a northern alliance soldier was in the passenger
seat with a gun to the driver's head zontag was puzzled as a truck stopped in front of the safe
house and he watched the men eyeball it as if they were remembering the layout and observing the

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entrances zontag was indifferent about where the prisoners would be held knowing that dawson and his
men were responsible for them he was still concerned that the truck had stopped outside the safe house
and wondered if they were setting up an ambush now this part reminded me again of 13 hours yes i
literally was just gonna say that i'm like this is 13 hours at the fortress when that one car comes

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up and they're getting coordinates they're like yeah they're getting coordinates to shoot mortars
adam yes like something's not right here i'm picturing the dark haired guy with the mustache
the dark haired guy with the mustache uh tonto oh tonto it's tonto yeah tonto yeah tonto's yeah

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he is the one who's like yeah i yeah i remember that now i don't i don't fucking like the feeling
of it yeah i love that guy in that movie he he plays that part phenomenally this is exactly
that same kind of situation is like oh shit they're they're marking our location for something yeah
mark mitchell was also weary of the situation the prisoners were driving straight through

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mazar and he realized at any moment they could jump off the trucks and start to wreak havoc on the
city again later that night gunfire erupted near the safe house and the men had no idea what the
situation was about turns out there was some animosity between ahta and dawson's men then mitchell
learned that at the fortress when the prisoners arrived one of the men summoned over dawson's

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lieutenants pulled the pin on a grenade and blew them both up one of dawson's men running a video
camera captured the incident as these events started to unfold mitchell felt that the city was
quote spinning out of control and quote back at the safe house first sergeant dav betz had
issued the highest security alert of threat con delta meaning everyone was on alert guns at the

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ready that following morning prisoners were being led up from the fortress basement into the courtyard
they were brought up by ethnicity arabs then pakistanis then usbex cia officers mike span and
dav olson were to debrief these men in the hopes of finding out more about osama bin london and
his movements or location as well as if al qaeda had more attacks planned around the world now the

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prisoners were yelling at the american men as they questioned them most of them stating quote
we have come here to kill you end quote mike span bent down and saw a prisoner who wouldn't look him
in the eye as if he was trying to hide himself from being recognized the kid was wearing a bridge
style commando sweater it would not answer any of span's questions span thought he might be a foreign

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terrorist with his defiant behaviors the man had blonde hair blue eyes no way he was from the middle
east span thought maybe a russian a brit but he knew this man could speak english
olson and span continued to berate him with questions but the man just stared at the ground
silent he thought that if he talked the other tail band would shoot him he was relieved that span

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and olson moved on and he kept quiet the man was an american named john walker lind from california
well i need to stop here for a second because the story of john walker lind is told throughout this
whole book and i would not touch on it until this point because fuck him uh oh i'm nervous

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i will not give any recognition on this podcast to an american working with a terrorist organization
uh and the only reason i'm mentioning john walker lind in this part is because this situation of
mike span and and dav olson um questioning him is just the beginning of what's about to happen

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okay out of nowhere a giant explosion shook the ground of the fortress and his becky prisoner
had tried to throw a grenade from the basement up the stairs at one of the guards but it bounced
back at him as the explosion rocked the ground prisoners jumped up and overtook the guards the
courtyard broke out into a clusterfuck that is not doug's words those are my words there's no

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quotes around it i i literally took like two pages of what doug wrote and put it into one word
clusterfuck prisoners were screaming a la akbar which means god is great as they pulled weapons
and grenades from their clothes and began to kill dawson's men mike span ran for cover toward this

(20:41):
pink house that is in the courtyard where from there he could at least fire his weapons and wait
for the firefight to be over as mike ran for safety he was tackled to the ground by prisoners
as he felt feet and fists beating him he grabbed one of his pistols and began to fire it rapidly
at the attacking men a prisoner came up fired two shots killing mike span instantly oh no

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davolson turned to observe what had caused the explosion
dav was returning to dawson's quarters in the fortress and was halfway across the courtyard
when he saw mike span fall under the attack from the prisoners he noticed when he turned around all
of his guards were dead and he fired his pistol rapidly at the prisoners trying to attack him
when he looked up he saw dawson and atas men had moved up onto the walls of the fortress and now

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we're firing at prisoners from above one of dawson's soldiers still in the courtyard helped dav
retreat to safety olsen made it to the stairs of dawson's headquarters in the north courtyard
where he was shocked to see a blond man standing in front of him no it was not john walkerland
his name this blond man was arnim stealth a german reporter who was there to report on the red cross

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efforts in the city of mazar he had taken cover in the stairway after gunfire erupted now dav
olsen knew his cover as a cia operative was now blown he asked stealth if he could please use his
phone olsen went to call the safe house but didn't have the number on hand so instead he dialed the
us embassy in usbekistan who passed him through to the us army central command in tampa florida

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who then forwarded his call to the safe house in mazar on the other end of the phone was a cia
operative garth rogers he couldn't believe their cover was blown and what had been occurring at the
fortress mark mitchell was hearing gunfire from around mazar that morning but was clueless as to
where it may be coming from us army medical surgeon craig doc mcfarland returned to the safe

(22:44):
house after touring mazar's hospitals and observing their conditions and technology he heard gunfire
coming from the direction of khali jhangi and thought it was odd because he knew dav olsen and
mike span had gone there earlier to question prisoners he alerted mitchell that it sounded
like a full gunfight over at the fortress just then saunta got a call from k2 base in usbekistan

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an officer on the line stated quote we've got a report that there's you know two americans dead
in mazar end quote now saunta thought this had to be a mistake he hadn't heard anything about this
now mitchell received a message that a visitor needed to see him just then one of docum's local
friends named alarm rizan came running into his office he told mitchell quote there has been a

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terrible incident you must come i think americans are dead the prisoners have seized control of the
fortress end quote saunta entered the office and looked at mitchell in disbelief mitchell stated he
would take some men over to see what was going on he thought maybe just a few disorderly prisoners
were causing trouble something like that down from the fifth floor of the safehouse garth rogers

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entered mitchell's office looking very grim like oh shit i have some news and it's not good he then
told the men mike span was either missing or dead and things grew more serious saunta and mitchell
started to devise a plan knowing that they had to be careful entering the area of the fortress
their mission was to find davolson and most importantly retrieve mike span's body if he was

(24:16):
killed now they don't know that he's killed obviously we know now the listeners know but we are back
at the safehouse and a plan is being put in place as to how to deal with the situation they had about
three hours of sunlight left and they needed to move fast they loaded up in a land rover and
mitchell punched the gas cruising through the city of mazar as rogers rode in the passenger seat

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calling out the obstacles dean at the outskirts of condolence had received word about the situation
involving mike span he also had received a phone call from the safehouse asking him if he had all
of his men with him the caller said he was just checking in and that the details weren't clear
but something was definitely happening back in mazar dean and brad highland started to pack

(24:58):
up their things and head back to mazar however colonel bowers had directed them that they would
be staying in condolence in fear of a similar situation happening with these prisoners dean
warned mitchell that he had guys in mazar and did not want them getting killed in a misfire if
bombs were dropped so again finally starting to communicate like don't just drop bombs guys we

(25:22):
need to know where everyone is before we start blowing stuff up for sure as mitchell approached
the fortress he couldn't believe the scene he saw rpg rockets combing the sky rapid machine gun fire
and men yelling a full out battle was taking place prisoners had climbed to the top and
fired down at the entrance bullets hitting all around the land cruiser the suv was stopped next

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to a guard shack at the entrance where mitchell ordered steven bass a navy seal and the rest of
his sbs team which stands for special boat services um and some of these guys are brits their job is
to spot where the prisoners were shooting from the team got to the top behind a mud wall and set
up their machine guns on tripods they began to fire into the courtyard killing many prisoners

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they noticed that the northern alliance soldiers who had shown up to assist were firing down into
the fort in what we would call quote spraying and praying end quote very inaccurately just firing
and wasting ammo hoping to hit something now another problem mortars were being fired from a
horse stable but mitchell couldn't pinpoint exactly where the mortar fire was but knew they had to

(26:29):
take this out before anything could be done mitchell knew he only had one hour to find davolson
because son tag had called in an aircraft to drop bombs at 4 p.m. mitchell radioed his movements
stating he was making his way to dawson's headquarters being the last known position of
dave mitchell was creeping along one of the fortress walls when he ran into one of dawson's

(26:50):
sub commanders who luckily had a radio that he was talking to davolson on over the working radio
mitchell heard olson's voice come in and was definitely relieved they now could talk with
dav and set out to find him in the fortress the taliban found the weapon caches in the underground
containers they now had more grenades rpg's mortars and rockets in their possession as they

(27:12):
controlled the south courtyard the prisoners started to target dawson's headquarters in the
north courtyard and started to hit it with rockets mitchell and rogers made it to the northwest
parapet of the fort which was about six stories high with the help of one of dawson's men they
climbed the side of the parapet with a piece of fabric they had made it to the top overlooking

(27:34):
the fort's courtyards mitchell decided there was too heavy of gunfire to move any further and
radioed in an air strike there was an f-18 en route mitchell directed the men with him to get over
the north wall once the bomb hit and use the explosion as cover how do they i'm slightly confused
how do they like know who is like with them and not with them so um dawson's men wear specific

(28:05):
colors okay they mostly wear i think in the book it says like red okay it's hard it's hard to tell
the difference between again who's on your side and who's not but i think the main part here is by
using context clues of what of you know observation in this case of who's shooting at who you know

(28:27):
who the prisoners are because the tail band mostly wears black okay um some type of black
turban or black you know robe or something and they dress differently okay so there yeah there's
no military uniforms here yeah that's what what like i'm like picturing in my head like

(28:49):
they are typically wearing some type of robe like outfit and to your point of you saying yeah
you're confused like how do you know who's on whose side you don't in the moment really you have to
just kind of trust the guy next to you that he's a northern alliance soldier and he's firing on
these prisoners that are in the south courtyard but again like that that just shows the point of

(29:12):
this as well like these moors in the middle east you don't know who's on your side and who's not
they're not wearing they're not wearing camouflage uniforms they're not flying the flags of you know
who they represent you don't know who's on your team so you have to do the best you can i think in
this in this sense to observe the situation of okay who's shooting at who okay these guys are on
my side they're shooting at the prisoners below so they're with me right wow just seems like a whole

(29:39):
lot of chaos other question what's a parapet a parapet is like so on the castles yeah the top
walls okay those are parapet walls you know like how they have the squares oh yeah okay yep got that
yeah so like same thing on a fortress right like this is a giant fortress like all around like if

(30:04):
you look at the satellite image yeah it looks like a giant hexagon almost yep oh yeah the parapet
the parapet is the wall on the top and so they're they get over that wall and now they can see into
the fort yeah because they're on that top kind of like a catwalk you know what i'm talking about yep
yep makes sense thank you for clarifying that anytime the bomb was being dropped from the f-18

(30:29):
at 18 000 feet michael told bach over the radio they were quote danger close end quote meaning
they were in the area of the bomb strike location michael scoped in on the pink house in the middle
of the south courtyard and assured it had the largest number of prisoners in and around it
he sent these coordinates to bach who relayed them to the pilot the pilot dropped and it hit

(30:52):
about a hundred yards from the pink house michael called in for a more accurate second drop the bomb
hit the pink house dead on target many of the taliban wanted to surrender but were told by the
foreign taliban they would fight to the death three more bombs were dropped and michael could not
believe how ineffective they had been the taliban were still firing at a high rate it would not give

(31:16):
up the fight michael ordered one more bomb directed at the pink house again after it hit
they jumped back out of the fort to the desert floor stripped off their heavy vests not only
carrying their m4s pistols and radios michael spotted a window leading into dostams headquarters
they jumped in and started yelling for davolson throughout the building afghan soldiers scattered

(31:40):
scared to death one of them told the men david had made his escape and got down the back wall
to safety but michael wouldn't trust this man's word until he saw david himself now again michael
knew that darkness was coming they had to get out of the area fast as they drove back to the safe
house michael heard over the radio that a q r f which is a quick response force of 24 men had just

(32:04):
landed at the nearby airfield so these are reinforcements from the americans yeah son tag
had called them in during the air strikes on the fortress when he couldn't reach michael
he was fearing the worst around 6 30 p.m michael and his team made it back to the safe house where
he was elated to see davolson walk down the steps michael and son tag called an emergency meeting

(32:28):
to review the events of the day and the plan going forward they knew about 300 of the 600 taliban
were dead inside the fort and dostams men were depleted or injured son tag put together what he
thought the taliban was trying to do he came to this conclusion the prisoners had rioted at kali
jongi knowing the americans and mazar would respond the city would then be unprotected to

(32:52):
taliban soldiers that were waiting north of the city the americans would then be attacked from behind
and killed then the two taliban groups from the fortress and the north would regroup and
head back east to condones to eliminate nelson dean bowers and the rest of the american teams
as they would be trapped between them and condones more bad news came from general moha kex

(33:14):
hasara soldiers now we haven't talked about general moha kek much in this um but he's the third war
lord that is a part of the northern alliance with dostam and atta and his hasara soldiers they are
an ethnic group the taliban to the north were ready to infiltrate mazar michael ordered an ac 130

(33:36):
gunship to circle the taliban in the north and if they started to move on mazar take them out
and if you don't know what an ac 130 is whole ship is that big plane with giant cannons and guns on it
that just goes boom boom boom boom and just destroys everything on the ground

(33:57):
yeah that was not aware what that is yeah gun the ac 130 it's the badass piece of
aircraft artillery i'll tell you that they continued to hear gunfire and explosions on the west side
of mazar near the fortress they knew the city was unsafe now but would not retreat the americans would
not retreat the city the next morning november 26 2001 the safe house team returned to kali jhangi

(34:25):
michael was laying on the fort's middle wall on the eastern edge so if you're looking at the map
you can see exactly like i don't have it pinpointed but if you go to the wall that splits the north
and south courtyards if you go to the east he's right there on top of that wall this position
gave him the vantage point he needed to see the taliban's activity in the southern courtyard

(34:48):
he watches the taliban fighters were launching mortars and firing their ak's at the northern
walls of the fort can i ask a question so obviously i can see it on the map but in perspective like
how large is this fort this fortress is huge so if you go in the if you go into the map here walk

(35:09):
on the map with me the fortress is about 300 meters in both directions north and south east and west
so it's it's pretty big my interpretation of it is like a mall yeah it's pretty big without
everything on the inside this is not a small place it's like the outside of a mall yeah

(35:33):
but it's big okay just i'm just wondering okay another question so there's stuff underground
yes there's an underground to the fortress because i feel like there's not a whole lot
above ground right there's space to go to right it's a courtyard so like dostums

(35:56):
dostums headquarters is that northern point it's like it's like a building built into the into the
fortress with the walls yes yeah and then there yes there's underground there's an underground
tunnels and spaces mitchell watched as the taliban fighters were launching mortars and firing their

(36:17):
ak's at the northern walls of the fort 300 yards away from him across the northern courtyard
were captain paul syverson captain kevin lehi sergeant first-class peepock air force combat
controller malcolm victors and sergeant first-class dav betz mortars were starting to fall all around
the men peepock was radioing the f-18 pilot overhead to drop bombs before these taliban and

(36:42):
al-qaeda fighters got out beyond the fortress walls the f-18 pilot would not drop without
coordinates as more mortar fire landed no more than 50 feet away from them bach yelled into the
mic telling the pilot to hurry up and having him listen to the explosions around them syverson
finally gave in and told bach to give the pilot the coordinates now they didn't want to give him

(37:04):
the coordinates because they were afraid that if the pilot had them he would target their location
on accident the pilot punched in the coordinates and the bomb dropped mitchell listened as the
countdown came in over the radio the bomb exploded the floor shook dead silence mitchell looked back
to see the south courtyard and the mortar position hadn't been touched then mitchell looked back and

(37:27):
saw a large cloud of debris hanging over syverson's position the bomb flew through the parapet the men
had been sitting on and dropped 20 feet down before exploding syverson flew through the air
kicking and flailing dav betz was thrown 60 feet hair singed off his face oakley's sunglasses
melted and as he turned to look at pete bach he laughed in relief that he was alive however

(37:51):
that really hurt as well uh yeah betz looked down and thought he had lost the lower half of his body
luckily he was just buried in pebbles and rubble from the blast now kevin lehi was
groaning at the bottom of the fort wall which collapsed inward mitchell could not get a hold
of syverson on the radio mitchell got a hold of the 10th mountain soldiers who told him the bomb

(38:15):
had hit the other men's position mitchell ordered everyone to regroup at the fort's entrance
kevin lehi had to be resuscitated several times syverson suffered a broken hip and back
however besides the broken bones burns and cuts they all had survived
now after all of this all five men would receive the purple heart and bronze star

(38:40):
and return to active duty in the future wow yeah so i don't know if this is luck i don't know if
this is fate i don't know if this is destiny for all five of these guys but a bomb hit you
and you all survived it and are able to go back in the future to active duty

(39:02):
fucking nuts these guys are nuts in the most positive way possible yeah they are nuts
mitchell under duress called out for all u.s aircraft to cease fire and head back to base
they were done for that morning mitchell needed to regroup everyone and make sure everyone would
survive before he could move forward he was worried about finding mike span's body as well as

(39:25):
completely destroying the fortress sauntag and mitchell would decide to hit the south courtyard
of the fort with guns and cannons of an ac 130 they had to stop the taliban as soon as possible
this would occur that night however the northern alliance were already moving in for a daylight
assault starting in the north courtyard and advancing into the south courtyard that night the

(39:49):
n a retreated to the small village of day to d to allow the ac 130 to come in and do its thing
the cannon fire hit the weapons cache which was resupplying the taliban and launched a giant
mushroom cloud into the sky so like i said ac 130 giant cannons on them pummeled the fortress

(40:12):
penetrated the ground hit the weapons cache underground and destroyed all that stuff the
following morning the n a went back at it in the south courtyard making full entry the taliban
were still fighting hard but the northern alliance were fighting and winning on november 28th the
fighting in the south courtyard was finally over as ali soar and his n a soldiers had captured it

(40:33):
dostam had returned from condense that morning to reclaim his fort dean nelson and bowers also
returned with mula fe sal the taliban commander as their prisoner now so that was the that was the
taliban commander that dostam made this surrender agreement with yeah from part three soldiers and
reporters walked the southern courtyard surveying the damage of the previous days prisoners were

(40:56):
trapped below in the basement of the pink house that was destroyed some of them were still holding
grenades rpgs and rockets they could hear the voices of the men above who believed they had
killed everyone in the fight especially below ground dostam turned to face all asking quote did
you know anything about this end quote and the taliban warlord just shook his head no

(41:18):
bullshit fucking liar the prisoners considered making one more attack but before they could
any soldiers started throwing grenades and rockets into the basement through the vents
now after an aid worker was shot going down the stairs to the basement
dostam's men started to pour fuel into the basement burning men alive
alive still they wouldn't surrender now a small stream at the southwest corner of the fortress

(41:44):
was redirected to flood the basement of the pink house the water was freezing and the men underground
took a vote they finally would surrender four days of trying to level the fortress it was
finally secured and the taliban were defeated mike span's body was retrieved and brought back to
the safe house in mazar his body bag was draped in an american flag and flown back to k2 airbase

(42:09):
in usbekistan cia director george tenet publicly announced mike's band's death stating quote
mike was in the fortress of mazar isha reef where the taliban prisoners were being held and
questioned although these captives had given themselves up their pledge of surrender like
so many other pledges from the vicious group they represent proved worthless mike was a career of

(42:33):
promise in a life of energy and achievement a precious life given to a noble cause end quote
doug writes about mike's sacrifice in an honorable way stating quote the effect was that mike's
band became an overnight hero an accolade he would have shunned while he was alive he became a figure
of everything that a nation felt was honorable about itself namely selfless sacrifice while at war

(42:59):
with a new and mystifying threat end quote the n.a and the americans were so close to losing the war
in afghanistan in a short month they prevailed and became the first u.s soldiers in the 20th century
to be part of a cavalry attack general tomi franks described the event as quote it was as if warriors

(43:20):
from the future had been transported to an earlier century end quote their selfless sacrifice to our
great nation should never be taken for granted these men are the heroes america doesn't deserve
and the heroes that we should never forget and that concludes our four-part series on horse soldiers
the first americans in afghanistan after 9 11 that was a good one that's a crazy story and like

(43:48):
like so unknown when i feel like it's so important being like the first ones there i
i i think i i don't know if i said this to dug or if i am planning to say this
dug in the interview i don't i think i said him over the phone like i was almost embarrassed

(44:12):
not to know the story especially with how much i love or like you know military movies and stories
history and military just are in american military history especially and just not knowing this and
kind of like it slipped off my radar i i almost feel just embarrassed that i absolutely pass this

(44:33):
up and that's why i felt like this was such an important story to tell on this podcast yeah
and i know it's not like you know it's recent history i mean this is in the past 25 years
but i think this is a story that i feel like not a lot of people have heard no and even the fact

(44:53):
that this became a a movie with some pretty big names in it and it was not something that we had
seen or even that we haven't even heard of yeah i mean maybe you've heard of it i have not heard
of 12 strong no i mean i really didn't hear i really didn't know about the movie either

(45:18):
but i when i'm thinking about this i'm like i i think this story gets overshadowed now by like
zero dark 30 the movie zero dark 30 killing osama bin Laden because um that story is so mainstream
and one of the biggest events in the world that yeah that this gets overlooked as this is where

(45:41):
it started yeah for this is the beginning of it all i mean the movie zero dark 30 exists because
horse soldiers started this they were the first ones in and trying to gain intelligence on where
the hello summer bin laden was and and working with the northern alliance yeah and trying to get
and trying to get afghanistan back to them and and move the taliban out and like i don't know it's

(46:07):
just i could you know me i could go on forever about this especially in in our recent presidency
here where we just let the taliban take afghanistan over and all of these efforts of this story that
we're talking about yeah are almost in vain i know you know like it's just to me it's it's pathetic

(46:30):
but we're not making any political statements i'm trying not to make a political statement right now
but i think it's pathetic that we allowed the taliban to reclaim control of afghanistan after
all this work that was put out by our military for sure um because we're not talking about
politicians right now we're talking about the military our men and women who go overseas

(46:54):
to try and make the world a better place because they believe in it not what our politicians want
us necessarily because i could give a crap what our politicians want but our men and women of our
american armed services they go into the military to make a difference yeah they're they're they're
in a political game but their hearts are in the right place and afghanistan has just gone down the

(47:17):
shitter again the taliban are back and we left all of our weapons behind for them and just pulled
everyone out and i i think it's a travesty here you go yes it's a travesty just it's a travesty to me
as what has occurred in the middle east because it's going to continue to be a shit show of an area

(47:40):
and we did and pulling out of afghanistan and and just reading this story just almost breaks my heart
about how much progress was being made and then all of a sudden just like that nothing yeah for sure
well that is the finale i'm glad so many of these men no women were mentioned but i'm sure

(48:06):
among the years there were women over there as well um but and this story these men most all but
it sounds like one made at home americans yes made at home yes a lot and i mean if we're talking
about i mean there's there's no women highlighted in this story obviously um however again zero

(48:30):
dark 30 a woman in the cia she's the one who kept prying and prying and she's the one who found
osama bin london it took all these risks yeah and she's a big part of that as well and i obviously
i don't know her name off the top of my head right now but she's played by um jessica chastain right

(48:51):
yeah jessica chastain yeah she's so she's played by her she's played by jessica chastain in the
movie of zero dark 30 and um there's just there's so many people that go into this effort it's it's
not just one person it's not a shot that was fired into osama bin london's head it's not it's all the
behind the scenes stuff there's so much that went into it people that work in intelligence in the

(49:14):
military and all that that that make these things happen so um i'm sure i can find another
thousand stories of the last 25 years thank you to all the men and women who serve our country
you are amazing and underappreciated i feel like it's a thankless job yes we appreciate you more

(49:41):
than you know thursday we are going to have our interview again with doug stanton number one new
york times bestselling author of whore soldiers and i would highly recommend even though you know
the story from our podcast here i would recommend going and buying the book and reading it from front

(50:06):
cover to back cover because there's so much more that we did not highlight in this podcast
i'm telling you if you're if you're interested in this type of reading
doug does such a great job of putting you right in the story you feel like you're right there next
to these guys walking through everything that they went through like he just does a great job

(50:27):
detailing and stuff like that and we're going to talk more in the interview about that and how he
was able to write like that and the places that he saw in person and the stories he heard
to be able to write this book so i'm really excited to hear doug yeah on our podcast i'm so pumped
yeah that'll be really exciting and then next week the following week we will have common phrases

(50:52):
part three yay a little comic relief after all of this after a month of whore soldiers and this
end up the story we're gonna come back with some some more common phrases for you in our in
in our third part of that throughout this season one of history on the rocks podcast and we're

(51:15):
gonna have some fun with some more idioms at first i thought you were gonna say oh we're gonna take
a week break no we don't we're not taking a break yet no we'll take a break in between seasons
yeah but no that that is not in the new future common phrases will be good all right well i hope

(51:36):
everyone enjoys your midweek early week have a cocktail tonight relax yeah you know get ready
for thursday uh and i'll turn it up on a tuesday taco tuesday taco tuesday get a marg margaritas
get a margarita whatever uh relax it's almost you know summertime and nice warm weather's coming so

(51:58):
woohoo we really hope you enjoyed this series of whore soldiers uh on history on the rocks podcast
we will see you on thursday with the interview with doug stanton and we'll talk to you later see you
cheers