June 21, 2023 • 39 mins
(00:00 - 00:58) Intro
(00:58 - 02:25) Blueberry Fields Forever
- 2 oz Ben Holladay Bottled-In-Bond Bourbon
- 3/4 oz Lemon Juice
- 3/4 oz Blueberry Syrup
- Garnish with a lemon peel and blueberries
(02:25 - 08:55) Welcome Mike Frizzell (CFO of the Holladay Distillery)
(08:55 - 14:30) Alcohol taxes
(14:30 - 16:00) Google Sheets vs Excel
(16:00 - 19:00) Holladay Soft Red Bottled-In-Bond Bourbon (May 2023)
(19:00 - 21:28) What is your go-to bourbon?
(21:28 - 25:08) Kyle's favorite Mike story
(25:08 - 31:00) Taxes on imports and aging bourbon
(31:00 - 37:15) Congeners in alcohol
(37:15 - 38:00) Side drink merch is here!
©️2024 Holladay Distillery Weston, MO. Drink Responsibly. Drive Responsibly.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Music.
Welcome to Holiday Happy Hourpresented by the Holiday
Distillery in Weston, missouri.
I'm Jordan and I've got thewhole pod squad here today, plus
a special guest.
But first things first, brendan, i'm going to need you to come
over here and tell me what we'redrinking today.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
It's beautiful, so today we have the blueberry
fields forever.
This is our Bend HolidayBourbon Smash for the spring and
summer.
So it is two ounces of BendHoliday Bottled and Bonn Bourbon
, three-quarter ounce ofblueberry syrup, three-quarter
ounce of lemon juice, and it'sgarnished with a lemon peel and
some blueberries.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Delicious.
That color is very, veryvibrant.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Oh yeah, if that's not a change of a season, i
don't know what it is.
It's perfect, right?
Yep, very good.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I feel like we're ready for summer now.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
It's killer.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
It is Well.
We have delicious cocktails, Wehave friends here and we have
our very special guest, MikeFrizzell, the CFO of the Holiday
Distillery.
Mike, welcome to Holiday HappyHour.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Thank you.
Thanks for having me, mrMoneybags, yeah, in the house.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Someone's got to keep us honest around here.
Yeah, keep us in line, mike,you've been here how many years
now?
Speaker 4 (01:31):
It'll be 28 years in September.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Wow, that's pretty incredible That is a run man.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
Most people in this room aren't that old.
I'm not sure.
I think that's not true.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I mean we'll take it, though, guys, definitely take
it.
Yeah, i mean I'm dusty overhere, but you're a little
younger than me, kyle, that'sfine.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I had a few years on you.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
I feel old, so that's all that matters.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
I'd do it Now everyone's going to know by the
way, that's true.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Yeah, exposing yourself.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
So we thought it would be fun today to bring Mike
on, because we're alwaystalking about marketing and
design and just making bourbon.
But there are a lot of thingsthat go into pain for these
things, and also checks andbalances and things, paperwork,
things that we don't always haveto bother ourselves with.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
So I mean Mike's from a different world.
You guys are marketing.
I'm still in operations.
I still actually do some ofthose things.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
Yeah, i'll get these fair share of the paperwork?
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, i think I've just kind of figured Kyle's one
of us now, I mean I am.
Speaker 5 (02:35):
it's just not for one of you, but that's tech.
I don't want to say that, nothat's not true.
No, yes, they live in the worldof marketing puffery and Mike
lives in the world ofspreadsheets.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
That's true, yes, yeah.
So when you started here, mike,what was your first role?
Speaker 4 (02:51):
I actually came in as a consultant to help install a
computer system the new computersystem.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
they were getting Interesting.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
And it's interesting that we're still in that same
computer system.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
28 years later.
I don't know if that'sinteresting or like what is
happening right now.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
So we're in the process of looking at changing
that out right now.
So it's had a good life here.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Is that the AS 400?
Speaker 4 (03:15):
The AS 400, the bottle soft software that we use
.
That is all the production.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
A long run for software.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Yeah, very long run for software.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yeah, so software.
So when you started in software, how did you end up on the
accounting side?
Or is that kind of two and one?
Speaker 4 (03:32):
Yeah, I actually went to school and had an accounting
degree and an MBA in finance.
So I that's my background Camehere just to help install the
financial side of the packageand then got roped into doing
some of the production stuff andthen eventually worked my way
(03:52):
into getting a job here in theaccounting department and doing
various roles there over theyears 28 years later 28 years
later There we are.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Where did you go to school?
Speaker 4 (04:05):
I did my undergrad at Missouri Western, up in St Joe,
and got my MBA from Rockhurst.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Nice, nice Local.
I like that.
Are you from Kansas City areaoriginally?
Speaker 4 (04:15):
I am not.
I am from North CentralMissouri, small town, Chilli
Coffee.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Oh, heard of it.
Yep, i mean, that's not a smalltown, isn't it?
Speaker 4 (04:23):
10,000 people.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Come on.
Speaker 5 (04:25):
Today's standards are small.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
That's a small town.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Atchison is a small town.
Right, That's not my hometown,i know, but that's where you're
from.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
I'm sorry to everyone from Atchison who may be
listening to this.
I did not intend to offend.
I'm from Northwest Kansas.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
A very small town, a very small town.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
Like how small?
Speaker 5 (04:45):
Where I went to school was 1500, but that wasn't
my hometown.
My hometown was actually like48.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Oh well that's so.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Everyone's related in that town.
I think They're all Merck lines.
Okay, probably, yeah, i meanthey're all of yeah, similar
Yeah pretty close.
I mean, that's a very smalltown.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
But it's odd, in my hometown there's actually two
branches of Merck lines that arenot related Different parts of
Germany they came from.
So, yes, interesting.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Anyway, wow.
So Mike came from the big city.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
The big city, chilli Coffee.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
The big city of Chilli Coffee I like that?
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah Well, interesting.
So how did you, i guess, end upin Weston?
like working in Weston when youwere a consultant?
What company were you with atthat point?
Speaker 4 (05:28):
I was actually in between jobs.
I was offered a promotion to goto New Jersey, decided that was
not for me.
So I decided to stay in Kansasand find a job And I knew the
CFO here at the time.
He offered me a job to come upand help install a computer
system.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Just evolve from there.
Yeah, nice, that's awesome.
And so, as the CFO, do you feela lot of pressure and wait on
your shoulders to keep us all inline and make sure we're
watching our budgets.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Luckily.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Mike.
Mike and team are some of thenicest people I've ever met, by
the way.
They're on top of everything tokeep knuckleheads like me in
line, and our teams from youknow going too far, doing
anything goofy, but they'realways available for any
questions We ever have.
Yeah, i've always said keep themoney, people happy and
everything.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
I mean I'm rolling, honestly impressed in your
salesmanship right now Becausethat was impressive that you
like suck up to try to make surethat he's still on your side.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
I know with Mike that's right here, so this is
why it all has to.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
We love working with Mike and we you know what I love
the most about working withMike is he just will say yes to
You know, try anything.
I guess it is like he'll alwayssupport us at our events and
whenever I said, hey, mike, doyou want to come on the podcast?
he was like, well, okay.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
It's about time, free bourbon.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah, so that's what, that's fun.
Step outside of the numbers fora little bit.
Yeah, i think he walked in andsaid, oh, there's video.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Live until right before we got started, right.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Yeah, that's the.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
I just hope we don't crash the internet.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
We're probably gonna crash, yeah, i guess so many
right now.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Mm-hmm, I mean.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
I'm honestly appreciative that, like for the
first time ever, you know, we'readding more and more layers,
right, like first It's justpodcasts, then it's video, then
it's live, and you know Iobviously am not comfortable
with all those things, butfinally we invited someone.
That's equally as uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
I think, with that.
Speaker 5 (07:46):
He's bringing Mike on , so it's, it's good.
I enjoy having a fellow, youknow, kind of more introverted
personality here.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
So yeah, yeah, i think you're actually enjoying
it, probably more than youreally should.
Speaker 5 (07:59):
Again.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Finally someone else someone other than me, right See
.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Meanwhile I was looking forward to Mike since
the very beginning.
I was like, once we get Mike onthis podcast, then we've made
it.
Get the money man in here.
Then when the bill comes in forall this extra equipment On
location, everything's gonna befine.
That's what that's for.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah actually doing something you know.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Well, since you are behind all the money, i want to
talk about something kind ofmore bourbon related and
actually spirits in general, buttaxes.
So, I've been doing a lot oflike a lot of research and
reading into the history ofAlcohol taxes and it's just very
interesting.
I don't think people reallyunderstand, first of all what
(08:47):
bonded means so we can talkabout that a little bit but also
the amount of Liability, iguess, like maybe one warehouse
might have for how many taxesthat we're on the hook for.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Yeah, as Jordan mentioned, the barrels right now
are in bond, which means wehave not paid tax on those.
They're covered by our bond.
So if something were to happen,barrels were to disappear or
whatever, it's covered by ourbond.
The government would go backand claim against our bond to
cover their taxes.
So, and the big warehouse, wehave what?
(09:20):
10,000 barrels roughly today.
So and if those barrels werefully taxed they're around 600
bucks a barrel.
So do the math on that realquick.
That's a lot of money.
It's between the two warehousesright now 16,000, it's roughly
16 million dollars.
That's sitting there.
Future tax for the government.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Penny's.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
What a business, that is insane.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Yeah, that's a lot of money.
And I think when somebody looksat a bottle of bourbon and you
don't consider all of the timeand everything that went into
making that bottle of bourbon, iguess, and then the time you
have to sit on it and the money,and it's just very interesting.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yes, well, we're one of the most regulated and highly
taxed industries in theuniverse, I think, not even the
world but the universe.
So the amount of hoops you jumpthrough and the amount of
government groups you have to bea part of, i mean it's, it's a
lots for these guys to handle.
Obviously it's it's easy tokind of tuck it away and not
think about it.
For us, i mean, while we knowthat Mike Laurie, the whole gang
(10:24):
, is keeping things straight andnever able to tuck it away
because that's what they do,it's, it's a lot to take in.
Speaker 5 (10:31):
But I think, clarifying even the tax point a
little bit more, like that'swhat we pay, but that's not like
sales tax, that's not likeincome tax, that's like the
specific to alcohol.
That is an additional tax thegovernment imposed.
That's only on a proofgallon ofalcohol, correct?
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Which is also mind blowing, because there's a lot
more that goes into it.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
Other taxes along the way as well, that we I am sure
There's state excise taxes,local taxes there's a bunch of
taxes and alcohol It's the sintax, basically.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
So the current tax rate is what?
1334 per proofgallon, correct,and a proofgallon is a gallon of
liquor at 100 proof.
So if you took a gallon of BenHoliday bonded bourbon or
Holiday Soft Red Wheat bondedbourbon, that is a proofgallon,
and so we would have to pay$13.34 cents in taxes on that
(11:24):
one gallon.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
What about whenever we bottle Rick House?
Is that different?
since that's, it's a differentconversion.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
Great conversion.
So you have your proof timesyour gallon rate.
So if you have a gallon of 120proof alcohol, then it would be
one gallon times 1.2.
So you'd have 1.2 proof gallons.
So it'd be 1.2 times 13.34.
So you pay more taxes.
the higher on the bottle, thehigher the proof is Right.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Wow, see the things that I don't have to think about
and I'm perfectly fine with it.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
That's interesting, that's a lot of money.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah, wow, so yeah that's a lot to manage on top of
everything else.
But you must really likenumbers, Mike.
I'm glad one of us does.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
Some days Depends on the day.
We all have the day, all right,that's right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Well, in the history of taxes, it's very interesting
that really alcohol tax was thefirst I'm losing my words here
The first.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
I'd give you words.
I don't know what they're goingto be, though I don't know.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Syntax, The first tax really.
that was even established.
Sorry guys, this going livereally makes me nervous And
looking forward into that, likegoing into the temperance
movement when people were reallytrying to push on prohibition.
it's like, well, wait, we can'tdo that because we need that
money to pay off war debt and tojust really function as a
(12:51):
society So you can actuallythank the income tax for
covering that gap.
So leading into prohibitionshortly before that.
that's when the income tax,federal income tax, was
established.
Is that interesting?
Speaker 5 (13:08):
Wait.
So it was established becauseof prohibition.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yes, because they needed money.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
So if we wouldn't have prohibited alcohol, we
wouldn't have an income tax.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I mean just saying Oh man.
I blew my mind Not only did wenot have booze for several years
, but we also And I'm assumingthat's why prohibition ended.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Probably Well.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
I mean, they're among other things, among other
things.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
But yeah, so taxes just have a very long history in
this country.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Shouldn't federal tax have gone away then, once
prohibition ended?
Speaker 2 (13:41):
I feel like that would have been fair.
It would have been, i feel,like taxes never.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
They just keep adding and they don't ever take away.
Yeah, that sounds right.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
They never reduce taxes, as you know.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Yeah, it doesn't seem to go down, it seems to trend
up.
Speaker 5 (13:55):
But you know.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, so just a little interesting tidbit of
information there.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Kind of depressing tidbit, but I know everybody can
drink to that.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
So let's talk spreadsheets now?
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah, let's move on to Excel.
Speaker 5 (14:11):
Honestly.
Okay, Can I talk about that fora second?
I do have a question.
You count Now that we havesomeone who's qualified to
answer this.
Why do accountants hate GoogleSheets and love Excel?
That is a great question.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
I didn't know that that was a thing.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
Oh man, i sent one spreadsheet over one time to
someone in Mike's team and theylost it.
That it was a Google Sheet.
It was not acceptable.
They made fun of me to no endbecause it wasn't Excel and I
didn't get it.
What is the Google Sheet, okay,okay, well, that's fair, maybe
(14:46):
that there you go, that's likethe greatest.
Mike comeback ever, that wasgood.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah, i will say that Lori works with Google Sheets
for me.
I think just maybe they don'tlike you and that's okay.
Not everyone likes you It's nobig deal Makes sense.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
We should get too far out of our comfort zone.
You should know that by now,Yeah that's true.
Speaker 5 (15:07):
I'm assuming the formulas don't quite translate
the same and like it's just thatthere's a lot of things built
into.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
They get all Googled when you do it.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yes, well, with a Google Sheet too.
Anybody can change it if youshare it, right, i guess You can
lock it down.
You can do like a read, only Ilock down all my spreadsheets.
Speaker 5 (15:23):
Yeah, i don't want you touching this stuff.
I don't want Patrick involvedat all.
I'm not opening yourspreadsheet, that's true.
I know you're not, no chance.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Let me know if I need some out of there.
I'm good If he shares it.
He's not reading it, That's forsure.
Yeah Well, Kyle, something elsewe're drinking over here.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Why don't?
Speaker 1 (15:39):
you talk to us about this little guy.
Speaker 5 (15:40):
This is a tasty one, man, yeah, so this one is the
Holiday Soft Red, bottled andbond for May of 2023.
And so it's going to be bottled, but yeah, that just got cut,
filtered to proof.
It's really good.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
I don't know, i can't remember all my floors on the
breakdown of this.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
I feel like you had six, there's six different
floors, but I don't remember thenumbers.
The first two are the same.
And then it's.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
There's a lot of actually it is.
Speaker 5 (16:20):
I have a Google Doc, that or sheet that shows you
know each one, the floorbreakdowns.
Make sure that the labelmatches, and then how many cases
I get from it, how many barrelsper case.
I do numbers too.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
No.
Speaker 5 (16:32):
Just You know.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
I love that for you, Kyle.
Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 5 (16:37):
But yes, i don't remember the floors, so that's
where I was going with that.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Well, that's this batch to me.
Compared to even the first one,that was excellent, this is a
huge step up to me.
I mean, this is fantastic.
It's can't wait for this to getin the bottle.
Honestly.
Speaker 5 (16:54):
I don't know how to take that.
Like you didn't like the firstthing I know, i know what you're
going for.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
This.
This is a whole different deal.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
I mean, he's saying you're getting better, Yeah,
it's about time.
I think it's.
Speaker 5 (17:04):
I think it's a lot like well, i think it is a lot
like what happened with Ben lastyear, and so that first one we
had.
you know, for both Ben andsoftware I had a certain number
of barrels that were available.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Jordan will throw something.
You talk about the first Ben,she will throw some.
No one ever sees that, but itusually happens.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, you got to make sure I'm.
Speaker 5 (17:23):
yeah, I get excited, I mean but I I didn't say
anything about it.
No, but it just.
When you have more barrelsavailable, you just have a lot
more options and an availabilitywhich isn't always a good thing
, but in this case, you know,there was a lot of barrels that
came came of age on the fourthfloor, so I do know that that
was the primary floor of thisone.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
And yeah, it's just that's good works well So yeah,
we got to try this at Rick Houseproof when Patrick was not here
and that made him very upsetAnd I'm sorry about that.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
but it was really not OK.
Speaker 5 (17:58):
Honestly like she's not upset about that.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Yeah, i was getting pictures and texts from this guy
like just mean spirited.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
I think we tried to FaceTime him when he was six
hours ahead.
Yeah, i'm like sorry about yourlife.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
For that?
No, it is a big time, like Iwas like OK, let's see how it is
.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
That's good, I'll be back.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
It is good.
I'm actually really starting towarm up to this whole soft red
thing that you're doing here.
It's taking a while.
Like Patrick said, it's the newbaby that lives in the house.
You don't really know him Stillstranger.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
I don't know that kid I don't know, him You better
behave.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
So, yeah, it is good though.
That's excellent, very good.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
Very good.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Mike, what's your go to if you're going to have a
cocktail at home, or when you'rethinking about all the crap I
put you through and you justwant to have something delicious
to ease your mind Like whatwould you pour?
Speaker 4 (18:50):
I'm a bourbon guy, OK .
Speaker 5 (18:51):
I like it.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
I like my bourbon cold though, So I put it there.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
There's my son.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
So OK.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
What's your?
what's your?
go to bourbon.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Well, of course, has it been as long versus soft red.
Well, i haven't.
I haven't got a bottle of softred yet.
I'm going to have to do that.
Oh my goodness, i get that.
I have tasted it.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
It's very good, i'm going to send you home with a
little goodie bag for theweekend Here.
Mike.
I have something to sip on.
Do you prefer to drink at 100proof or bottled in bond, or do
you like the Rick House proofone barrel route?
Speaker 4 (19:26):
Uh, the bottle demand is very good.
I did try the shorty, though,and the shorty kind of hooked me
on the barrel strength.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
So our next barrel or next one barrel selection for
this distillery.
like the shorty, I think we'regoing to sell this one, though
kind of like one McCormick Lane.
Speaker 5 (19:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Sixteen, charlie 22 is going to be the name of it.
It ties into the lot number,our friend Doug Frost.
When he came back and tastedthings about a year and a half,
two years ago, year and a halfago, he selected that one as he
was kind of going making hisrounds and tasting, making a lot
of you know, kind of like, oh,this is good, really good.
And he was like whoa, this one,this one.
(20:10):
And he like looked at it, he'slike 16, charlie 22.
This one's ready now, like thisis what he called.
He called it like a I don'tknow He has he had Doug words
but yeah, i words that soundedlike this thing is a delicious
whatever.
Sweet little bourbon.
He said something funny and itmarked in our brain.
I wrote it down.
Kyle pulled that now to becausewe're at that, it's going to be
(20:30):
almost seven years.
Speaker 5 (20:31):
It will be seven years two months.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Wow, this thing is, it's fun.
Speaker 5 (20:35):
Yeah, so he said it was ready a year and a half ago.
And so what did we do?
We waited, you know, an extrayear and a half Like you're
really lands.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
You know it cost you bad at that bureau Mike's like
you mean we could have mademoney out of the year and a half
Yep.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Perfect, always looking out.
You know I get that.
It's old Well that says it'sgood, it's, good It's I mean
yeah it's very good.
Speaker 5 (21:00):
Yeah, We're biased, So yeah, I, of course I enjoy it
.
My favorite Mike story Can Itell that real quick?
Oh yeah, So we were at theinitial Ben holiday launch event
with our distributor partnerhere in the state of Missouri
And it was, you know, about ayear ago And we're here
(21:20):
celebrating, went through thetasting and then we had a dinner
And I know that this was notnot cheap.
Probably.
We had Wagyu steaks for foreveryone And Joe didn't know
which kind of get.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
so he had both.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
They had two for both days A strip and a fillet, just
in case people didn't know what.
Or was it rib eye?
I don't know.
One or the other rib eye andfillet and fillet And so, just
in case you know, you werehungry and needed two steaks.
So I was sitting at the tablewith Mike and like I just could
feel like he was just conflictedbecause on one hand he was
loving the steaks And it wasjust so great, But then I could
(21:58):
see in his mind he was justthinking about the money, the
entire time And he was just soparanoid, Like how much is this
costing What?
what's going on?
Why are people leaving steaksover there Like what's?
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Look at all this waste.
That was one of the mostoutstanding dinners I've been at
And that's really good, Maybeever.
I mean.
That was phenomenal, I meanthey slayed cooking those things
.
They all came out at once.
That was a night to remember.
That was a lot of fun.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
It was very good.
Yes, yeah, mike.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Mike enjoyed it.
That's the thing that's.
You have to invite him tothings like that to make sure he
can show him how awesome it isHave a smile and remember the
delicious taste before he getsthe bill
Speaker 4 (22:31):
for sure You know, but unfortunately I saw the bill
before Right, so let's say thatLook at him, He's nervous, he's
like oh, it was too soon afterhe would have thrown up.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
So we have to play that properly.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
You know, but I took a steak home because there was a
few left over.
Put it in the fridge.
I love cold steak and coldpizza the next day.
It's me one of my favoritethings ever, especially if it's
like that, like that steak wasphenomenal.
And the next day I'm like oh,whatever.
And kicking around Andsometimes you know, for
breakfast throwing in with someeggs or whatever, and all of a
(23:02):
sudden, like I smell someone'scooking something, i go
downstairs and Brody's my son.
He's like dad.
I just made the best quesadillaever And he smoked the whole
steak in a case.
I was like man.
if you were my son, like Iwould throw you right out of the
house, right now.
I was so sad, but it was a damngood case.
Yeah, I did get a piece of it,so that's why you have to mark
your leftovers.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah you have to you know put it down and mark it.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
Mike, did you get leftovers?
I did not.
I didn't know that was anoption.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
I didn't either.
We're not going to throw itaway.
There was steaks everywhere.
It was amazing.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Sorry about that.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Jordan, you get leftovers.
Let's do it again.
Steaks are really goodleftovers.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
I mean, come on, really, it's a repeat Yeah Well,
I'm sure we'll do it againsometime.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
Just because we know numbers doesn't mean we, you
know, aren't cool.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
You know, i wish we knew like a wagyu farmer, so we
could have a better connection.
Speaker 5 (23:51):
That would be nice if you knew.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
No, that's my family, kyle's life.
By the way, i was going to sayI've been eating very just.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
He's pretentious when it comes to me.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
I'm not pretentious, it's bad.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah, yeah, ok, kyle's pretty bougie Yeah, when
it comes to food and drink, andWell.
Speaker 5 (24:08):
I've been eating wagyu beef for going on a decade
now, like that's just what grewup with.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
So you know before it was like a popular like Yeah,
and I did Started raising wagyu.
Speaker 5 (24:20):
and then, yeah, you get accustomed to it, and then
the next thing you know, it'sthe Yes like a love sorry.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Joe, like I can't you could put a sign on the door.
People don't read, especiallyJoe.
He'll probably have his phoneringing here.
A second.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah, it's coming in.
I love it.
Good job, Joe.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Yeah, buggy beef and Kyle, yeah, we need some, so
let's do it.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Yes, okay, yeah, brendan's phone in a question
over there.
Okay, that's a good one.
Brendan said he wants Mike totalk a little bit about taxes on
imports, imports like fivefarms and Who songs tequila and
kind of what that situationlooks like well, the?
Speaker 4 (25:07):
the simple word is the taxes, exactly the same It's
.
It's the 1334 per gallon, so itdoesn't change because it's an
import or domestic product.
But when the product comes intothe US it goes into a customs
facility and it's Only when werelieve it from customs that
were obligated for the tax weactually pay that tax to the
(25:30):
customs As opposed to paying itto TTB.
Ttb is the tax and trade bureau.
They're part of the Treasury,so It's the same tax rate is
just paid to two differentpeople.
And Once it comes out of thecustoms cage we pay tax on.
It goes into a tax paid area.
We have to keep that segregatedfrom the bonded Area of the
(25:52):
warehouse.
Bond again means we have notpaid tax yet.
So and that's?
Speaker 1 (25:57):
on site here, right, that is those areas.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
Yes, okay, and it has to be designated with the
government We cannot just moveit anywhere in our warehouse
that there's yellow tape on thefloor, that means it's a tax
paid area has to stay withinthere.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Yeah, I mean they're like.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
Patrick said there's tons of regulations just piddly
stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Yeah, that's segregated the regulations at
least.
I mean, we've got the oldphotos.
The photo on the front of oursoft red has, you know, our
barrel truck and a warehouses onit and you could see, you know,
the TTB ATF agent at the time.
It would have been standing atthe door because they had to
unlock Yep, you know thewarehouses.
If you need to get into them,like they're on site, basically
(26:37):
monitoring 24-7.
At least now We still havegovernment type locks.
That's all regulated, but theydon't have to, you know, sleep
in a cot and wait for us to Getthe barrels rolling.
It's wild.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Good question, 70s, i think my understanding late wow
, brennan was wondering when theLast year was that we had to
have, like when that ended whengovernment On-site regulating, i
guess that started?
Speaker 3 (27:05):
was that about the switch, where it changed to take
TTB And they switched kind offrom the ATF and that happened
after 9-11.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
That was part of that recent.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Yeah, I blew that one .
I had no idea.
That's right before.
I got in the business, sothat's wild.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
That is wild.
Well, even in the 70s, that was50 years ago, but it doesn't
feel like it should be that longago, you know, but yeah, we
definitely don't have them onsite anymore.
We do have somebody monitoring24-7 though, so nobody getting
any ideas, but we are.
Speaker 5 (27:37):
Are locked down, but just make sure that no one comes
in.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
And all the bulk alcohol that comes in here is
gauged and We have to reportthat to the government.
There's any losses and if it'sover an acceptable limit, We
have to pay the tax on it.
So We try not to lose product.
Speaker 5 (27:59):
Yeah, so like if a tank accidentally gets left open
with a valve on the bottom andit drains the tank, we have to
pay taxes on that.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
We can apply if we can document the situation and
prove that it was lost.
Okay.
We can apply for a Forgivenessof tax Okay, they don't have to
honor it, but for the most partthey do if we've got good
documentation of exactly whathappened.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
So we had to do that before quite a bit, or?
Speaker 4 (28:25):
Unfortunately.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
I mean it's like double sad.
I mean you've got taxes on topof no product.
Speaker 5 (28:33):
Remember he's been here 28 years.
I've only been here seven, soyou know it could have been in
21 years before that wasn'tnecessarily because of me.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
So no blame me, i'm operations.
Yeah, don't blame me.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Well, and even so, when a barrel goes in the
warehouse and we fill that 53gallon barrel, we're gonna pay
taxes on that entire barrel,correct, regardless of whatever
we lose.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
No, we pay tax on the yield that comes out of the.
Really.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Taxes on the whole thing.
certain states Okay.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
Yeah, there's certain states that have, like Kentucky
, essentially like a propertytax of sorts on the barrel right
where you have to pay a barrelper year type of thing right.
Missouri does not have that.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Oh wow, Go Missouri.
Speaker 5 (29:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Don't get many ideas.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
That's a perk for now .
Speaker 1 (29:25):
After 20 years never heard that before it probably.
I Guess we've never had a 20year old bourbon that we have
bottled and sold right, so wewouldn't.
Speaker 5 (29:42):
It probably depend.
Based off of the state would bemy assumption, but yeah, hmm
See, brendan, or should work inaccounting.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
It works in every position possible.
for the record, i do not want a20 year product.
Speaker 5 (29:58):
Now I was like that's gonna be way over over.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Oh yeah, so we're not doing that.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Hmm Interesting, we've learned something new.
Yeah, Yeah I didn't have thatin my history book back when.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Yeah, then teach us a bourbon storage.
Yeah, they should have taughtus things that mattered.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
You know, i do have a question for Kyle, a science
question go for it.
So As much as I'm into thehistory and the tasting and
flavors and the aging process, iam still just like this when it
comes to distillation.
So one thing in particular thatI want to learn about can you
(30:53):
talk about congeners?
Speaker 5 (30:56):
Congeners.
So Congeners is.
So I'll give the definitionfirst.
It's very basic.
Congeners is what we refer toas anything that's not just
plain ethanol.
So When you ferment the mash,the yeast does produce other
(31:18):
higher alcohols.
It produces additional flavorcompounds.
Those are typically thatthey're either volatile or
non-volatile.
If they're volatile they willgo through the distillation
column, so they're gonna comeout the top of the column with
the ethanol.
So when we run a GC mass specwe send that through and we're
looking at how many parts permillion of Certain of those
(31:41):
compounds.
The higher alcohols that makeit through the distillation
process That's what congeners isis the additional flavor
compounds essentially that makeit through.
That's just not ethanol, and soyou can.
You can change up the congenarprofile of your spirit through a
ton of different ways.
Obviously mashbill, yeast Easttype fermentations, whether it's
(32:05):
hot or cool, long short, aswell as the way you distill.
That's why every part of ourstep Process matters, why we try
to stay consistent in each part.
We want the same congenarprofile going into the barrel.
The distillation style matters.
With a column, you you have acertain style.
(32:27):
It's a little bit heavier in innature.
With a pot still, you make cuts, and so you kind of discard the
heads, you discard the tails.
What that means is all thosethose higher alcohols that are
part of the early Boiling pointand the the late boiling point.
You get rid of them and youonly keep the hard switches, the
ethanol plus some of the othercompounds that are close to that
(32:48):
, whereas with the column, still, you don't have that in nature.
You control that via a coupledifferent ways.
Mainly, distillation.
Proof is what we we care about,and so that's why we care about
distilling it.
120 off the column and 130 offthe doubler is we want it to be
consistent every single time,because it's a little bit
(33:09):
heavier and full-bodied innature, knowing that we're gonna
age it at least six years, andso that's, that's a thought
process.
So you, you kind of begin withthe end in mind of how long are
you gonna age it, what are yougoing to do with that product as
you age?
is it gonna be a full barrel,whatnot, and and how you want it
to end, and then work backwards, and that's how you choose what
, what style you, how youdistill, how you permit all of
(33:33):
that fun stuff.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
So when we originally laid these barrels down, the
intention was four years, rightSo?
Speaker 3 (33:40):
It was three at the very beginning.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
How did that affect your?
Speaker 5 (33:44):
yeah, so it still it, it makes it better.
I think, ultimately, when youhave younger product, you still,
if you go in the style that wedo you, you can tend to it.
The oak isn't there, theMaturation over time, the
(34:05):
oxidation reactions aren't there, and so it's not quite as
Rounded and full-bodied ingeneral, and so it's just not.
It's just not as flavorful.
So going longer with the stylethat we do, it works.
What we're doing is again verytraditional bourbon.
If you knew that three yearswas the max that you could do,
that's where you would probablychange it up.
(34:25):
But for us, knowing it was moreof like a three years the
starting point, and I think,even though we say three years,
i think there was probably stillthe thought that we could age
things longer.
It just depended on when Mikestarted complaining about the
money in the warehouse.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
So But I think that ultimately, that style.
Speaker 5 (34:46):
It works at three years.
It works much better at six tenRange as well.
So So, do you change it up forthe tenure?
then We do not know.
So with that one It's gonna bethe same basic.
Overall process, just kind ofgiving you a little bit more oak
.
As well as the, the oxidativeoxidative reactions have a
(35:08):
current.
The oxidative oxidativereactions have occurred over
time a little bit longer, soyour front-end distillation
process, especially because it'scolumn every time.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
That stays consistent .
Your contenders added in atthat point later ten years
versus six, that's all barrelweather.
Speaker 5 (35:27):
Correct.
Yeah, yep, some of the headsevaporate in the call are in the
barrel as well, and so that'ssometimes what you see as well.
So some of the earlier onesmight be a little bit more heads
, like if you were to dump themearly.
You know we have to figure allthis out with our Rai whiskey,
patrick.
I Keep poking fun at him, hehates Rai whiskey really dislike
(35:50):
, and I just keep telling himthat I'm not good.
We're gonna make one withanybody.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
It's fine.
People that like it tip youlike oh Well, it's.
It's the same people to talk sohighly about scotch.
Listen, it's fine, she's notfor everybody.
Speaker 5 (36:02):
I think it tastes terrible.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
Kyle loves scotch.
I actually think he's gonnatake an internship over.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Learn more about having scotch happen.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
So if I could say we're gonna make some scotch
here, kyle would be just asfrustrated as me hearing about
right, just for the record,maybe.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
I forgot that most recently Kyle on a podcast said
scotch sucks.
Speaker 5 (36:22):
He did.
I did say that That's hilarious.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
I mean I was to Maggie, yeah, she was like oh
yeah.
Speaker 5 (36:30):
I mean I don't like it, that's, I don't need their
Kyle, i don't even murk it.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
It's not for me.
Speaker 5 (36:36):
That's why we have that new barrel right.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Yeah, yeah, so we have congeners.
Speaker 5 (36:41):
That's why we have the congenar profile that we do
because we're not doing a potstill.
So, and no Pete.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah, no, pete.
No, that's a whole anothertopic for another day.
Goodness Scotch is yeah, notfor us No.
Speaker 4 (36:55):
Well.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
I forgot to get you guys one of these cool shirts.
I need one of these shirtsyou've got to come by and get
your team side drink cozy andteam side drink T-shirts at the
holiday distillery side drinkcrew is like really turning into
a thing.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
It's a lot of fun It is fun.
We just like to have fun, imean look at us right here,
right now, oh fun side drinks.
Speaker 5 (37:21):
I was gonna say but mics have a lot more left in
them than ours.
He's a rookie, it's fine, he'llget there.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
Yeah, i mean he's done great his first on-camera
appearance.
Speaker 5 (37:30):
I'm probably going back to actually like pay taxes,
right.
Speaker 4 (37:36):
Today is tax payment.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
You know what I appreciate it more than ever
than that you've made the timeon tax payment day to come down
and be on holiday.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
Happy hour that has to go out early today, so.
Speaker 5 (37:49):
Yeah, that was done on weekend, You know you got it
done.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
Yeah, Mike saw it.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Oh my goodness.
Well, you know what?
in that case, did we missanything?
Kyle you're gonna come back?
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Okay, we'll see you next week on the cocktail.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Yeah, next time.
All right guys, Well cheers.
You.
Music.
Welcome to Holiday Happy Hourpresented by the Holiday
Distillery in Weston, missouri.
I'm Jordan and I've got thewhole pod squad here today, plus
a special guest.
But first things first, brendan, i'm going to need you to come
over here and tell me what we'redrinking today.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
It's beautiful, so today we have the blueberry
fields forever.
This is our Bend HolidayBourbon Smash for the spring and
summer.
So it is two ounces of BendHoliday Bottled and Bonn Bourbon
, three-quarter ounce ofblueberry syrup, three-quarter
ounce of lemon juice, and it'sgarnished with a lemon peel and
some blueberries.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Delicious.
That color is very, veryvibrant.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Oh yeah, if that's not a change of a season, i
don't know what it is.
It's perfect, right?
Yep, very good.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I feel like we're ready for summer now.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
It's killer.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
It is Well.
We have delicious cocktails, Wehave friends here and we have
our very special guest, MikeFrizzell, the CFO of the Holiday
Distillery.
Mike, welcome to Holiday HappyHour.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Thank you.
Thanks for having me, mrMoneybags, yeah, in the house.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Someone's got to keep us honest around here.
Yeah, keep us in line, mike,you've been here how many years
now?
Speaker 4 (01:31):
It'll be 28 years in September.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Wow, that's pretty incredible That is a run man.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
Most people in this room aren't that old.
I'm not sure.
I think that's not true.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I mean we'll take it, though, guys, definitely take
it.
Yeah, i mean I'm dusty overhere, but you're a little
younger than me, kyle, that'sfine.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I had a few years on you.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
I feel old, so that's all that matters.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
I'd do it Now everyone's going to know by the
way, that's true.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Yeah, exposing yourself.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
So we thought it would be fun today to bring Mike
on, because we're alwaystalking about marketing and
design and just making bourbon.
But there are a lot of thingsthat go into pain for these
things, and also checks andbalances and things, paperwork,
things that we don't always haveto bother ourselves with.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
So I mean Mike's from a different world.
You guys are marketing.
I'm still in operations.
I still actually do some ofthose things.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
Yeah, i'll get these fair share of the paperwork?
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, i think I've just kind of figured Kyle's one
of us now, I mean I am.
Speaker 5 (02:35):
it's just not for one of you, but that's tech.
I don't want to say that, nothat's not true.
No, yes, they live in the worldof marketing puffery and Mike
lives in the world ofspreadsheets.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
That's true, yes, yeah.
So when you started here, mike,what was your first role?
Speaker 4 (02:51):
I actually came in as a consultant to help install a
computer system the new computersystem.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
they were getting Interesting.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
And it's interesting that we're still in that same
computer system.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
28 years later.
I don't know if that'sinteresting or like what is
happening right now.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
So we're in the process of looking at changing
that out right now.
So it's had a good life here.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Is that the AS 400?
Speaker 4 (03:15):
The AS 400, the bottle soft software that we use
.
That is all the production.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
A long run for software.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Yeah, very long run for software.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yeah, so software.
So when you started in software, how did you end up on the
accounting side?
Or is that kind of two and one?
Speaker 4 (03:32):
Yeah, I actually went to school and had an accounting
degree and an MBA in finance.
So I that's my background Camehere just to help install the
financial side of the packageand then got roped into doing
some of the production stuff andthen eventually worked my way
(03:52):
into getting a job here in theaccounting department and doing
various roles there over theyears 28 years later 28 years
later There we are.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Where did you go to school?
Speaker 4 (04:05):
I did my undergrad at Missouri Western, up in St Joe,
and got my MBA from Rockhurst.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Nice, nice Local.
I like that.
Are you from Kansas City areaoriginally?
Speaker 4 (04:15):
I am not.
I am from North CentralMissouri, small town, Chilli
Coffee.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Oh, heard of it.
Yep, i mean, that's not a smalltown, isn't it?
Speaker 4 (04:23):
10,000 people.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Come on.
Speaker 5 (04:25):
Today's standards are small.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
That's a small town.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Atchison is a small town.
Right, That's not my hometown,i know, but that's where you're
from.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
I'm sorry to everyone from Atchison who may be
listening to this.
I did not intend to offend.
I'm from Northwest Kansas.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
A very small town, a very small town.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
Like how small?
Speaker 5 (04:45):
Where I went to school was 1500, but that wasn't
my hometown.
My hometown was actually like48.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Oh well that's so.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Everyone's related in that town.
I think They're all Merck lines.
Okay, probably, yeah, i meanthey're all of yeah, similar
Yeah pretty close.
I mean, that's a very smalltown.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
But it's odd, in my hometown there's actually two
branches of Merck lines that arenot related Different parts of
Germany they came from.
So, yes, interesting.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Anyway, wow.
So Mike came from the big city.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
The big city, chilli Coffee.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
The big city of Chilli Coffee I like that?
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah Well, interesting.
So how did you, i guess, end upin Weston?
like working in Weston when youwere a consultant?
What company were you with atthat point?
Speaker 4 (05:28):
I was actually in between jobs.
I was offered a promotion to goto New Jersey, decided that was
not for me.
So I decided to stay in Kansasand find a job And I knew the
CFO here at the time.
He offered me a job to come upand help install a computer
system.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Just evolve from there.
Yeah, nice, that's awesome.
And so, as the CFO, do you feela lot of pressure and wait on
your shoulders to keep us all inline and make sure we're
watching our budgets.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Luckily.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Mike.
Mike and team are some of thenicest people I've ever met, by
the way.
They're on top of everything tokeep knuckleheads like me in
line, and our teams from youknow going too far, doing
anything goofy, but they'realways available for any
questions We ever have.
Yeah, i've always said keep themoney, people happy and
everything.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
I mean I'm rolling, honestly impressed in your
salesmanship right now Becausethat was impressive that you
like suck up to try to make surethat he's still on your side.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
I know with Mike that's right here, so this is
why it all has to.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
We love working with Mike and we you know what I love
the most about working withMike is he just will say yes to
You know, try anything.
I guess it is like he'll alwayssupport us at our events and
whenever I said, hey, mike, doyou want to come on the podcast?
he was like, well, okay.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
It's about time, free bourbon.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah, so that's what, that's fun.
Step outside of the numbers fora little bit.
Yeah, i think he walked in andsaid, oh, there's video.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Live until right before we got started, right.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Yeah, that's the.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
I just hope we don't crash the internet.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
We're probably gonna crash, yeah, i guess so many
right now.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Mm-hmm, I mean.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
I'm honestly appreciative that, like for the
first time ever, you know, we'readding more and more layers,
right, like first It's justpodcasts, then it's video, then
it's live, and you know Iobviously am not comfortable
with all those things, butfinally we invited someone.
That's equally as uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
I think, with that.
Speaker 5 (07:46):
He's bringing Mike on , so it's, it's good.
I enjoy having a fellow, youknow, kind of more introverted
personality here.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
So yeah, yeah, i think you're actually enjoying
it, probably more than youreally should.
Speaker 5 (07:59):
Again.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Finally someone else someone other than me, right See
.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Meanwhile I was looking forward to Mike since
the very beginning.
I was like, once we get Mike onthis podcast, then we've made
it.
Get the money man in here.
Then when the bill comes in forall this extra equipment On
location, everything's gonna befine.
That's what that's for.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah actually doing something you know.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Well, since you are behind all the money, i want to
talk about something kind ofmore bourbon related and
actually spirits in general, buttaxes.
So, I've been doing a lot oflike a lot of research and
reading into the history ofAlcohol taxes and it's just very
interesting.
I don't think people reallyunderstand, first of all what
(08:47):
bonded means so we can talkabout that a little bit but also
the amount of Liability, iguess, like maybe one warehouse
might have for how many taxesthat we're on the hook for.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Yeah, as Jordan mentioned, the barrels right now
are in bond, which means wehave not paid tax on those.
They're covered by our bond.
So if something were to happen,barrels were to disappear or
whatever, it's covered by ourbond.
The government would go backand claim against our bond to
cover their taxes.
So, and the big warehouse, wehave what?
(09:20):
10,000 barrels roughly today.
So and if those barrels werefully taxed they're around 600
bucks a barrel.
So do the math on that realquick.
That's a lot of money.
It's between the two warehousesright now 16,000, it's roughly
16 million dollars.
That's sitting there.
Future tax for the government.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Penny's.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
What a business, that is insane.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Yeah, that's a lot of money.
And I think when somebody looksat a bottle of bourbon and you
don't consider all of the timeand everything that went into
making that bottle of bourbon, iguess, and then the time you
have to sit on it and the money,and it's just very interesting.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yes, well, we're one of the most regulated and highly
taxed industries in theuniverse, I think, not even the
world but the universe.
So the amount of hoops you jumpthrough and the amount of
government groups you have to bea part of, i mean it's, it's a
lots for these guys to handle.
Obviously it's it's easy tokind of tuck it away and not
think about it.
For us, i mean, while we knowthat Mike Laurie, the whole gang
(10:24):
, is keeping things straight andnever able to tuck it away
because that's what they do,it's, it's a lot to take in.
Speaker 5 (10:31):
But I think, clarifying even the tax point a
little bit more, like that'swhat we pay, but that's not like
sales tax, that's not likeincome tax, that's like the
specific to alcohol.
That is an additional tax thegovernment imposed.
That's only on a proofgallon ofalcohol, correct?
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Which is also mind blowing, because there's a lot
more that goes into it.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
Other taxes along the way as well, that we I am sure
There's state excise taxes,local taxes there's a bunch of
taxes and alcohol It's the sintax, basically.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
So the current tax rate is what?
1334 per proofgallon, correct,and a proofgallon is a gallon of
liquor at 100 proof.
So if you took a gallon of BenHoliday bonded bourbon or
Holiday Soft Red Wheat bondedbourbon, that is a proofgallon,
and so we would have to pay$13.34 cents in taxes on that
(11:24):
one gallon.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
What about whenever we bottle Rick House?
Is that different?
since that's, it's a differentconversion.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
Great conversion.
So you have your proof timesyour gallon rate.
So if you have a gallon of 120proof alcohol, then it would be
one gallon times 1.2.
So you'd have 1.2 proof gallons.
So it'd be 1.2 times 13.34.
So you pay more taxes.
the higher on the bottle, thehigher the proof is Right.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Wow, see the things that I don't have to think about
and I'm perfectly fine with it.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
That's interesting, that's a lot of money.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah, wow, so yeah that's a lot to manage on top of
everything else.
But you must really likenumbers, Mike.
I'm glad one of us does.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
Some days Depends on the day.
We all have the day, all right,that's right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Well, in the history of taxes, it's very interesting
that really alcohol tax was thefirst I'm losing my words here
The first.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
I'd give you words.
I don't know what they're goingto be, though I don't know.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Syntax, The first tax really.
that was even established.
Sorry guys, this going livereally makes me nervous And
looking forward into that, likegoing into the temperance
movement when people were reallytrying to push on prohibition.
it's like, well, wait, we can'tdo that because we need that
money to pay off war debt and tojust really function as a
(12:51):
society So you can actuallythank the income tax for
covering that gap.
So leading into prohibitionshortly before that.
that's when the income tax,federal income tax, was
established.
Is that interesting?
Speaker 5 (13:08):
Wait.
So it was established becauseof prohibition.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yes, because they needed money.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
So if we wouldn't have prohibited alcohol, we
wouldn't have an income tax.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I mean just saying Oh man.
I blew my mind Not only did wenot have booze for several years
, but we also And I'm assumingthat's why prohibition ended.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Probably Well.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
I mean, they're among other things, among other
things.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
But yeah, so taxes just have a very long history in
this country.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Shouldn't federal tax have gone away then, once
prohibition ended?
Speaker 2 (13:41):
I feel like that would have been fair.
It would have been, i feel,like taxes never.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
They just keep adding and they don't ever take away.
Yeah, that sounds right.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
They never reduce taxes, as you know.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Yeah, it doesn't seem to go down, it seems to trend
up.
Speaker 5 (13:55):
But you know.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, so just a little interesting tidbit of
information there.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Kind of depressing tidbit, but I know everybody can
drink to that.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
So let's talk spreadsheets now?
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah, let's move on to Excel.
Speaker 5 (14:11):
Honestly.
Okay, Can I talk about that fora second?
I do have a question.
You count Now that we havesomeone who's qualified to
answer this.
Why do accountants hate GoogleSheets and love Excel?
That is a great question.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
I didn't know that that was a thing.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
Oh man, i sent one spreadsheet over one time to
someone in Mike's team and theylost it.
That it was a Google Sheet.
It was not acceptable.
They made fun of me to no endbecause it wasn't Excel and I
didn't get it.
What is the Google Sheet, okay,okay, well, that's fair, maybe
(14:46):
that there you go, that's likethe greatest.
Mike comeback ever, that wasgood.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah, i will say that Lori works with Google Sheets
for me.
I think just maybe they don'tlike you and that's okay.
Not everyone likes you It's nobig deal Makes sense.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
We should get too far out of our comfort zone.
You should know that by now,Yeah that's true.
Speaker 5 (15:07):
I'm assuming the formulas don't quite translate
the same and like it's just thatthere's a lot of things built
into.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
They get all Googled when you do it.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yes, well, with a Google Sheet too.
Anybody can change it if youshare it, right, i guess You can
lock it down.
You can do like a read, only Ilock down all my spreadsheets.
Speaker 5 (15:23):
Yeah, i don't want you touching this stuff.
I don't want Patrick involvedat all.
I'm not opening yourspreadsheet, that's true.
I know you're not, no chance.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Let me know if I need some out of there.
I'm good If he shares it.
He's not reading it, That's forsure.
Yeah Well, Kyle, something elsewe're drinking over here.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Why don't?
Speaker 1 (15:39):
you talk to us about this little guy.
Speaker 5 (15:40):
This is a tasty one, man, yeah, so this one is the
Holiday Soft Red, bottled andbond for May of 2023.
And so it's going to be bottled, but yeah, that just got cut,
filtered to proof.
It's really good.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
I don't know, i can't remember all my floors on the
breakdown of this.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
I feel like you had six, there's six different
floors, but I don't remember thenumbers.
The first two are the same.
And then it's.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
There's a lot of actually it is.
Speaker 5 (16:20):
I have a Google Doc, that or sheet that shows you
know each one, the floorbreakdowns.
Make sure that the labelmatches, and then how many cases
I get from it, how many barrelsper case.
I do numbers too.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
No.
Speaker 5 (16:32):
Just You know.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
I love that for you, Kyle.
Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 5 (16:37):
But yes, i don't remember the floors, so that's
where I was going with that.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Well, that's this batch to me.
Compared to even the first one,that was excellent, this is a
huge step up to me.
I mean, this is fantastic.
It's can't wait for this to getin the bottle.
Honestly.
Speaker 5 (16:54):
I don't know how to take that.
Like you didn't like the firstthing I know, i know what you're
going for.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
This.
This is a whole different deal.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
I mean, he's saying you're getting better, Yeah,
it's about time.
I think it's.
Speaker 5 (17:04):
I think it's a lot like well, i think it is a lot
like what happened with Ben lastyear, and so that first one we
had.
you know, for both Ben andsoftware I had a certain number
of barrels that were available.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Jordan will throw something.
You talk about the first Ben,she will throw some.
No one ever sees that, but itusually happens.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, you got to make sure I'm.
Speaker 5 (17:23):
yeah, I get excited, I mean but I I didn't say
anything about it.
No, but it just.
When you have more barrelsavailable, you just have a lot
more options and an availabilitywhich isn't always a good thing
, but in this case, you know,there was a lot of barrels that
came came of age on the fourthfloor, so I do know that that
was the primary floor of thisone.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
And yeah, it's just that's good works well So yeah,
we got to try this at Rick Houseproof when Patrick was not here
and that made him very upsetAnd I'm sorry about that.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
but it was really not OK.
Speaker 5 (17:58):
Honestly like she's not upset about that.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Yeah, i was getting pictures and texts from this guy
like just mean spirited.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
I think we tried to FaceTime him when he was six
hours ahead.
Yeah, i'm like sorry about yourlife.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
For that?
No, it is a big time, like Iwas like OK, let's see how it is
.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
That's good, I'll be back.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
It is good.
I'm actually really starting towarm up to this whole soft red
thing that you're doing here.
It's taking a while.
Like Patrick said, it's the newbaby that lives in the house.
You don't really know him Stillstranger.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
I don't know that kid I don't know, him You better
behave.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
So, yeah, it is good though.
That's excellent, very good.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
Very good.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Mike, what's your go to if you're going to have a
cocktail at home, or when you'rethinking about all the crap I
put you through and you justwant to have something delicious
to ease your mind Like whatwould you pour?
Speaker 4 (18:50):
I'm a bourbon guy, OK .
Speaker 5 (18:51):
I like it.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
I like my bourbon cold though, So I put it there.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
There's my son.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
So OK.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
What's your?
what's your?
go to bourbon.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Well, of course, has it been as long versus soft red.
Well, i haven't.
I haven't got a bottle of softred yet.
I'm going to have to do that.
Oh my goodness, i get that.
I have tasted it.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
It's very good, i'm going to send you home with a
little goodie bag for theweekend Here.
Mike.
I have something to sip on.
Do you prefer to drink at 100proof or bottled in bond, or do
you like the Rick House proofone barrel route?
Speaker 4 (19:26):
Uh, the bottle demand is very good.
I did try the shorty, though,and the shorty kind of hooked me
on the barrel strength.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
So our next barrel or next one barrel selection for
this distillery.
like the shorty, I think we'regoing to sell this one, though
kind of like one McCormick Lane.
Speaker 5 (19:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Sixteen, charlie 22 is going to be the name of it.
It ties into the lot number,our friend Doug Frost.
When he came back and tastedthings about a year and a half,
two years ago, year and a halfago, he selected that one as he
was kind of going making hisrounds and tasting, making a lot
of you know, kind of like, oh,this is good, really good.
And he was like whoa, this one,this one.
(20:10):
And he like looked at it, he'slike 16, charlie 22.
This one's ready now, like thisis what he called.
He called it like a I don'tknow He has he had Doug words
but yeah, i words that soundedlike this thing is a delicious
whatever.
Sweet little bourbon.
He said something funny and itmarked in our brain.
I wrote it down.
Kyle pulled that now to becausewe're at that, it's going to be
(20:30):
almost seven years.
Speaker 5 (20:31):
It will be seven years two months.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Wow, this thing is, it's fun.
Speaker 5 (20:35):
Yeah, so he said it was ready a year and a half ago.
And so what did we do?
We waited, you know, an extrayear and a half Like you're
really lands.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
You know it cost you bad at that bureau Mike's like
you mean we could have mademoney out of the year and a half
Yep.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Perfect, always looking out.
You know I get that.
It's old Well that says it'sgood, it's, good It's I mean
yeah it's very good.
Speaker 5 (21:00):
Yeah, We're biased, So yeah, I, of course I enjoy it
.
My favorite Mike story Can Itell that real quick?
Oh yeah, So we were at theinitial Ben holiday launch event
with our distributor partnerhere in the state of Missouri
And it was, you know, about ayear ago And we're here
(21:20):
celebrating, went through thetasting and then we had a dinner
And I know that this was notnot cheap.
Probably.
We had Wagyu steaks for foreveryone And Joe didn't know
which kind of get.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
so he had both.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
They had two for both days A strip and a fillet, just
in case people didn't know what.
Or was it rib eye?
I don't know.
One or the other rib eye andfillet and fillet And so, just
in case you know, you werehungry and needed two steaks.
So I was sitting at the tablewith Mike and like I just could
feel like he was just conflictedbecause on one hand he was
loving the steaks And it wasjust so great, But then I could
(21:58):
see in his mind he was justthinking about the money, the
entire time And he was just soparanoid, Like how much is this
costing What?
what's going on?
Why are people leaving steaksover there Like what's?
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Look at all this waste.
That was one of the mostoutstanding dinners I've been at
And that's really good, Maybeever.
I mean.
That was phenomenal, I meanthey slayed cooking those things
.
They all came out at once.
That was a night to remember.
That was a lot of fun.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
It was very good.
Yes, yeah, mike.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Mike enjoyed it.
That's the thing that's.
You have to invite him tothings like that to make sure he
can show him how awesome it isHave a smile and remember the
delicious taste before he getsthe bill
Speaker 4 (22:31):
for sure You know, but unfortunately I saw the bill
before Right, so let's say thatLook at him, He's nervous, he's
like oh, it was too soon afterhe would have thrown up.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
So we have to play that properly.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
You know, but I took a steak home because there was a
few left over.
Put it in the fridge.
I love cold steak and coldpizza the next day.
It's me one of my favoritethings ever, especially if it's
like that, like that steak wasphenomenal.
And the next day I'm like oh,whatever.
And kicking around Andsometimes you know, for
breakfast throwing in with someeggs or whatever, and all of a
(23:02):
sudden, like I smell someone'scooking something, i go
downstairs and Brody's my son.
He's like dad.
I just made the best quesadillaever And he smoked the whole
steak in a case.
I was like man.
if you were my son, like Iwould throw you right out of the
house, right now.
I was so sad, but it was a damngood case.
Yeah, I did get a piece of it,so that's why you have to mark
your leftovers.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah you have to you know put it down and mark it.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
Mike, did you get leftovers?
I did not.
I didn't know that was anoption.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
I didn't either.
We're not going to throw itaway.
There was steaks everywhere.
It was amazing.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Sorry about that.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Jordan, you get leftovers.
Let's do it again.
Steaks are really goodleftovers.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
I mean, come on, really, it's a repeat Yeah Well,
I'm sure we'll do it againsometime.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
Just because we know numbers doesn't mean we, you
know, aren't cool.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
You know, i wish we knew like a wagyu farmer, so we
could have a better connection.
Speaker 5 (23:51):
That would be nice if you knew.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
No, that's my family, kyle's life.
By the way, i was going to sayI've been eating very just.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
He's pretentious when it comes to me.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
I'm not pretentious, it's bad.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah, yeah, ok, kyle's pretty bougie Yeah, when
it comes to food and drink, andWell.
Speaker 5 (24:08):
I've been eating wagyu beef for going on a decade
now, like that's just what grewup with.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
So you know before it was like a popular like Yeah,
and I did Started raising wagyu.
Speaker 5 (24:20):
and then, yeah, you get accustomed to it, and then
the next thing you know, it'sthe Yes like a love sorry.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Joe, like I can't you could put a sign on the door.
People don't read, especiallyJoe.
He'll probably have his phoneringing here.
A second.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah, it's coming in.
I love it.
Good job, Joe.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Yeah, buggy beef and Kyle, yeah, we need some, so
let's do it.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Yes, okay, yeah, brendan's phone in a question
over there.
Okay, that's a good one.
Brendan said he wants Mike totalk a little bit about taxes on
imports, imports like fivefarms and Who songs tequila and
kind of what that situationlooks like well, the?
Speaker 4 (25:07):
the simple word is the taxes, exactly the same It's
.
It's the 1334 per gallon, so itdoesn't change because it's an
import or domestic product.
But when the product comes intothe US it goes into a customs
facility and it's Only when werelieve it from customs that
were obligated for the tax weactually pay that tax to the
(25:30):
customs As opposed to paying itto TTB.
Ttb is the tax and trade bureau.
They're part of the Treasury,so It's the same tax rate is
just paid to two differentpeople.
And Once it comes out of thecustoms cage we pay tax on.
It goes into a tax paid area.
We have to keep that segregatedfrom the bonded Area of the
(25:52):
warehouse.
Bond again means we have notpaid tax yet.
So and that's?
Speaker 1 (25:57):
on site here, right, that is those areas.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
Yes, okay, and it has to be designated with the
government We cannot just moveit anywhere in our warehouse
that there's yellow tape on thefloor, that means it's a tax
paid area has to stay withinthere.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Yeah, I mean they're like.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
Patrick said there's tons of regulations just piddly
stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Yeah, that's segregated the regulations at
least.
I mean, we've got the oldphotos.
The photo on the front of oursoft red has, you know, our
barrel truck and a warehouses onit and you could see, you know,
the TTB ATF agent at the time.
It would have been standing atthe door because they had to
unlock Yep, you know thewarehouses.
If you need to get into them,like they're on site, basically
(26:37):
monitoring 24-7.
At least now We still havegovernment type locks.
That's all regulated, but theydon't have to, you know, sleep
in a cot and wait for us to Getthe barrels rolling.
It's wild.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Good question, 70s, i think my understanding late wow
, brennan was wondering when theLast year was that we had to
have, like when that ended whengovernment On-site regulating, i
guess that started?
Speaker 3 (27:05):
was that about the switch, where it changed to take
TTB And they switched kind offrom the ATF and that happened
after 9-11.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
That was part of that recent.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Yeah, I blew that one .
I had no idea.
That's right before.
I got in the business, sothat's wild.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
That is wild.
Well, even in the 70s, that was50 years ago, but it doesn't
feel like it should be that longago, you know, but yeah, we
definitely don't have them onsite anymore.
We do have somebody monitoring24-7 though, so nobody getting
any ideas, but we are.
Speaker 5 (27:37):
Are locked down, but just make sure that no one comes
in.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
And all the bulk alcohol that comes in here is
gauged and We have to reportthat to the government.
There's any losses and if it'sover an acceptable limit, We
have to pay the tax on it.
So We try not to lose product.
Speaker 5 (27:59):
Yeah, so like if a tank accidentally gets left open
with a valve on the bottom andit drains the tank, we have to
pay taxes on that.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
We can apply if we can document the situation and
prove that it was lost.
Okay.
We can apply for a Forgivenessof tax Okay, they don't have to
honor it, but for the most partthey do if we've got good
documentation of exactly whathappened.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
So we had to do that before quite a bit, or?
Speaker 4 (28:25):
Unfortunately.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
I mean it's like double sad.
I mean you've got taxes on topof no product.
Speaker 5 (28:33):
Remember he's been here 28 years.
I've only been here seven, soyou know it could have been in
21 years before that wasn'tnecessarily because of me.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
So no blame me, i'm operations.
Yeah, don't blame me.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Well, and even so, when a barrel goes in the
warehouse and we fill that 53gallon barrel, we're gonna pay
taxes on that entire barrel,correct, regardless of whatever
we lose.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
No, we pay tax on the yield that comes out of the.
Really.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Taxes on the whole thing.
certain states Okay.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
Yeah, there's certain states that have, like Kentucky
, essentially like a propertytax of sorts on the barrel right
where you have to pay a barrelper year type of thing right.
Missouri does not have that.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Oh wow, Go Missouri.
Speaker 5 (29:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Don't get many ideas.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
That's a perk for now .
Speaker 1 (29:25):
After 20 years never heard that before it probably.
I Guess we've never had a 20year old bourbon that we have
bottled and sold right, so wewouldn't.
Speaker 5 (29:42):
It probably depend.
Based off of the state would bemy assumption, but yeah, hmm
See, brendan, or should work inaccounting.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
It works in every position possible.
for the record, i do not want a20 year product.
Speaker 5 (29:58):
Now I was like that's gonna be way over over.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Oh yeah, so we're not doing that.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Hmm Interesting, we've learned something new.
Yeah, Yeah I didn't have thatin my history book back when.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Yeah, then teach us a bourbon storage.
Yeah, they should have taughtus things that mattered.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
You know, i do have a question for Kyle, a science
question go for it.
So As much as I'm into thehistory and the tasting and
flavors and the aging process, iam still just like this when it
comes to distillation.
So one thing in particular thatI want to learn about can you
(30:53):
talk about congeners?
Speaker 5 (30:56):
Congeners.
So Congeners is.
So I'll give the definitionfirst.
It's very basic.
Congeners is what we refer toas anything that's not just
plain ethanol.
So When you ferment the mash,the yeast does produce other
(31:18):
higher alcohols.
It produces additional flavorcompounds.
Those are typically thatthey're either volatile or
non-volatile.
If they're volatile they willgo through the distillation
column, so they're gonna comeout the top of the column with
the ethanol.
So when we run a GC mass specwe send that through and we're
looking at how many parts permillion of Certain of those
(31:41):
compounds.
The higher alcohols that makeit through the distillation
process That's what congeners isis the additional flavor
compounds essentially that makeit through.
That's just not ethanol, and soyou can.
You can change up the congenarprofile of your spirit through a
ton of different ways.
Obviously mashbill, yeast Easttype fermentations, whether it's
(32:05):
hot or cool, long short, aswell as the way you distill.
That's why every part of ourstep Process matters, why we try
to stay consistent in each part.
We want the same congenarprofile going into the barrel.
The distillation style matters.
With a column, you you have acertain style.
(32:27):
It's a little bit heavier in innature.
With a pot still, you make cuts, and so you kind of discard the
heads, you discard the tails.
What that means is all thosethose higher alcohols that are
part of the early Boiling pointand the the late boiling point.
You get rid of them and youonly keep the hard switches, the
ethanol plus some of the othercompounds that are close to that
(32:48):
, whereas with the column, still, you don't have that in nature.
You control that via a coupledifferent ways.
Mainly, distillation.
Proof is what we we care about,and so that's why we care about
distilling it.
120 off the column and 130 offthe doubler is we want it to be
consistent every single time,because it's a little bit
(33:09):
heavier and full-bodied innature, knowing that we're gonna
age it at least six years, andso that's, that's a thought
process.
So you, you kind of begin withthe end in mind of how long are
you gonna age it, what are yougoing to do with that product as
you age?
is it gonna be a full barrel,whatnot, and and how you want it
to end, and then work backwards, and that's how you choose what
, what style you, how youdistill, how you permit all of
(33:33):
that fun stuff.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
So when we originally laid these barrels down, the
intention was four years, rightSo?
Speaker 3 (33:40):
It was three at the very beginning.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
How did that affect your?
Speaker 5 (33:44):
yeah, so it still it, it makes it better.
I think, ultimately, when youhave younger product, you still,
if you go in the style that wedo you, you can tend to it.
The oak isn't there, theMaturation over time, the
(34:05):
oxidation reactions aren't there, and so it's not quite as
Rounded and full-bodied ingeneral, and so it's just not.
It's just not as flavorful.
So going longer with the stylethat we do, it works.
What we're doing is again verytraditional bourbon.
If you knew that three yearswas the max that you could do,
that's where you would probablychange it up.
(34:25):
But for us, knowing it was moreof like a three years the
starting point, and I think,even though we say three years,
i think there was probably stillthe thought that we could age
things longer.
It just depended on when Mikestarted complaining about the
money in the warehouse.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
So But I think that ultimately, that style.
Speaker 5 (34:46):
It works at three years.
It works much better at six tenRange as well.
So So, do you change it up forthe tenure?
then We do not know.
So with that one It's gonna bethe same basic.
Overall process, just kind ofgiving you a little bit more oak
.
As well as the, the oxidativeoxidative reactions have a
(35:08):
current.
The oxidative oxidativereactions have occurred over
time a little bit longer, soyour front-end distillation
process, especially because it'scolumn every time.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
That stays consistent .
Your contenders added in atthat point later ten years
versus six, that's all barrelweather.
Speaker 5 (35:27):
Correct.
Yeah, yep, some of the headsevaporate in the call are in the
barrel as well, and so that'ssometimes what you see as well.
So some of the earlier onesmight be a little bit more heads
, like if you were to dump themearly.
You know we have to figure allthis out with our Rai whiskey,
patrick.
I Keep poking fun at him, hehates Rai whiskey really dislike
(35:50):
, and I just keep telling himthat I'm not good.
We're gonna make one withanybody.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
It's fine.
People that like it tip youlike oh Well, it's.
It's the same people to talk sohighly about scotch.
Listen, it's fine, she's notfor everybody.
Speaker 5 (36:02):
I think it tastes terrible.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
Kyle loves scotch.
I actually think he's gonnatake an internship over.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Learn more about having scotch happen.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
So if I could say we're gonna make some scotch
here, kyle would be just asfrustrated as me hearing about
right, just for the record,maybe.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
I forgot that most recently Kyle on a podcast said
scotch sucks.
Speaker 5 (36:22):
He did.
I did say that That's hilarious.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
I mean I was to Maggie, yeah, she was like oh
yeah.
Speaker 5 (36:30):
I mean I don't like it, that's, I don't need their
Kyle, i don't even murk it.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
It's not for me.
Speaker 5 (36:36):
That's why we have that new barrel right.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Yeah, yeah, so we have congeners.
Speaker 5 (36:41):
That's why we have the congenar profile that we do
because we're not doing a potstill.
So, and no Pete.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah, no, pete.
No, that's a whole anothertopic for another day.
Goodness Scotch is yeah, notfor us No.
Speaker 4 (36:55):
Well.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
I forgot to get you guys one of these cool shirts.
I need one of these shirtsyou've got to come by and get
your team side drink cozy andteam side drink T-shirts at the
holiday distillery side drinkcrew is like really turning into
a thing.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
It's a lot of fun It is fun.
We just like to have fun, imean look at us right here,
right now, oh fun side drinks.
Speaker 5 (37:21):
I was gonna say but mics have a lot more left in
them than ours.
He's a rookie, it's fine, he'llget there.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
Yeah, i mean he's done great his first on-camera
appearance.
Speaker 5 (37:30):
I'm probably going back to actually like pay taxes,
right.
Speaker 4 (37:36):
Today is tax payment.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
You know what I appreciate it more than ever
than that you've made the timeon tax payment day to come down
and be on holiday.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
Happy hour that has to go out early today, so.
Speaker 5 (37:49):
Yeah, that was done on weekend, You know you got it
done.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
Yeah, Mike saw it.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Oh my goodness.
Well, you know what?
in that case, did we missanything?
Kyle you're gonna come back?
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Okay, we'll see you next week on the cocktail.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Yeah, next time.
All right guys, Well cheers.
You.
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