April 12, 2024 • 27 mins
Join Executive Health Care Coach Peter Svenneby and host Erin Vallier as they explore the complex balance between managing and leading in health care. This episode offers valuable insights on creating a culture of well-being for employees and patients. They discuss the traits that make up exceptional leaders in the health care industry and provide strategies for cultivating empathy, improving communication, and maintaining work-life balance. Leaders in health care, and by extension, home-based care, will walk away with a renewed sense of purpose and a better understanding of how their actions can shape the cultural landscape of patient care.
Episode Resources:
- Visit Syntuity’s Website
- Connect with Peter Svenneby
- Listen to Ep. 47 with Dr. Louise Short and Lori Cabbage about positive work culture
- Listen to Ep. 29 with Mike McSherry about retaining and attracting great talent
If you liked this episode and want to learn more about all things home-based care, you can explore all our episodes at alayacare.com/homehealth360.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Peter Svenneby (00:00):
Management is appointed by authority, but
leadership is appointed by thosebeing led, and so when we start
talking about how doeseffective leadership impact
things like employees andpatients, we have to consider
the difference betweenmanagement, which is being given
the authority, and leadership,which is people being enrolled
(00:20):
and choosing to follow, choosingto go somewhere with those
leaders right.
And that begs a couple ofadditional questions who are the
leaders and where are theyleading us?
Erin Vallier (00:41):
Welcome to another episode of the HomeHelp360
podcast, where we speak tohome-based care professionals
from around the globe.
I'm your host, Erin Vallier,and today I am joined by someone
who I respect and admire, PeterSvenneby.
Peter is an executive coach andan expert in organizational
transformation, leadership, andsales.
(01:03):
Organizational transformation,leadership, and sales.
In the 25 years since foundinghis company, Syntuity, he has
worked with organizations aroundthe globe, ranging from small,
local non-profits to global 2000enterprises.
He gets his energy from helpinggreat ideas, great products and
great companies grow and thrive, and he holds a degree in
(01:25):
engineering from the Universityof California, Irvine, which
seems completely unrelated tosales coaching.
So I have to ask how did you getfrom engineering to coaching,
peter?
Peter Svenneby (01:38):
Yeah, anyone who went through engineering school
and I'm sure plenty ofphysicians who listen to this
understand that from med schoolyou get out and you realize what
you really want.
I did software engineering andengineering work for a few years
and then realized that I neededto be around people a little
bit more.
I accidentally landed in myfirst sales role probably eight
years after school but realizedwhat a deep journey it is to
(02:02):
understand the dynamic ofselling and leadership, and the
two I really find go very muchhand in hand.
The journey in sales and theleadership very much is a
similar journey on both parts.
Erin Vallier (02:13):
Can you share a little bit about your background
in sales, coaching andleadership consulting?
Peter Svenneby (02:18):
I took my first sales job, like I said, a few
years into my career and as anengineer who is very much on the
pragmatic objective give me thenumbers and the answer and work
things out it did not comenaturally or easily for me and
so I guess for me it was so muchabout self-discovery and
understanding people andlistening and details that maybe
(02:41):
would not be associated withengineers to begin with.
So, long story short, I had alot to learn and because I was
going through the learningprocess, none of it occurred to
me naturally.
I think it made a goodfoundation to actually coach
others who were in that processof learning how to become a
leader and how to become asalesperson and lead sales and
such as that.
I think it was my lack ofnatural ability that really set
(03:03):
me up and it's been a you know.
Erin Vallier (03:19):
I think it was my lack of natural ability that
really set me up and it's been,you know, dating myself.
But a 30 plus.
They've read and all theexperiences and conversations
they've had.
So tell me, how does effectiveleadership impact things like
employees and patients, Becausethese things are always top of
mind for folks in the healthcareindustry.
Peter Svenneby (03:39):
Yeah, and it's a really big question at a really
high level.
Are you willing to like peelthat onion down a little bit,
let's do it.
First, there's a distinctionbetween management and
leadership that I was given by aclose friend, john King, who
wrote the book Tribal Leadership.
He always tells me managementis appointed by authority, but
(04:01):
leadership is appointed by thosebeing led.
And so when we start talkingabout how does effective
leadership impact things likeemployees and patients, we have
to consider the differencebetween management, which is
being given the authority, andleadership, which is people
being enrolled and choosing tofollow, choosing to go somewhere
(04:22):
with those leaders right,choosing to go somewhere with
those leaders right.
And that begs a couple ofadditional questions who are the
leaders and where are theyleading us?
Right, we know who our managersare, we know our bosses are, we
know what we've been told to do.
But I think, at a deeper levelin the organization, when you
really look at top leadershipand who they show up, as every
(04:43):
day at work, what you can see,especially from my point of view
when I'm coaching anddeveloping an organization, is
there are core commitments thatdrive a leader and their
decision-making and the way theyshow up.
And so often in executiveleadership, what we see is those
core commitments are to theownership, to the investors, to
(05:04):
the KPIs, to the numbers, andthey're not to a mission or a
vision for excellent care or foran excellent culture or
something of that nature.
And so when we talk abouteffective leadership, the first
thing we have to ask is who arethe leaders and where are we
being led?
But when we think about anorganization where the leaders
(05:25):
have painted a vision for theentire organization and
communicated it clearly, thathere's the standard of care we
wish to provide and here's whyit's important and here are
examples of how it makes adifference in people's lives and
we begin to lead our people tosharing that vision and bringing
it to life in the organization.
(05:47):
It changes everything, right.
It changes everything about howthe employees show up and their
understanding of what they'resupposed to do.
And the other thing to consider, when we think about patients,
who are the patients leaders?
They're the clinicians thatshow up in the home, right?
They're the ones that show upand embody the example of a
(06:07):
positive attitude and embody theexample of when there's a
setback, we have something to do.
It's a process.
Their attitude, their demeanor,their commitment, their vision
for what they're trying toaccomplish in the home is the
leadership that the patientrequires to get through whatever
it is they're dealing with,right?
Erin Vallier (06:27):
That's deep.
I can see how that's played outin my career.
I worked on the provider sidebefore hopping into technology
and I got to see firsthand howdifficult it is to run an agency
because you have to deal withgovernment payers, other payers
and people.
It's difficult and the stateknocks on your door because you
(06:48):
shut up five minutes late andsomebody calls and complains and
it takes a right kind of leaderto inspire the employees to
work overtime, to dig up andlike okay, there's the survey.
You've got to dive in all handson deck and if you don't have
the right kind of leadership,then you're just going to sink.
You're not going to besuccessful at all.
(07:09):
So in your experience, Peter,what are some common challenges
that healthcare executives facein terms of leadership and how
can they address thosechallenges?
Peter Svenneby (07:19):
And I think what you just brought up really
touches that, and it's not justhealthcare executives, it's
executives in every business.
But healthcare executives, Ithink, have an added level of
difficulty.
As a leader in an organization,we are pulled towards many
different commitments, not theleast of which is ownership,
kpis, revenue, profit, stockprice if you're a public company
(07:42):
, et cetera, et cetera.
Again, leadership comes back toyour primary commitments.
And if your primary commitmentis to make a number, then the
secondary commitment becomesyour people, your culture, these
other things.
Right, and that's evident inthe way leaders show up and how
the company either ralliesaround them to achieve things or
(08:05):
not.
Right, because as employees wedon't get excited about the
executive making their bonus orthe stock price going up.
That doesn't change our lifeand for the most part we want to
feel included and part ofsomething bigger and such.
But when leadership is pulledmore strongly by their bosses,
(08:26):
by the number, by the stockmarket, by their investors, by
their board, than they are bymaking work workable for their
employees, then you get adynamic where the employees
don't step up at a criticalmoment.
Right, that's their problemthat we don't make that number.
Right, that's their problemthat we don't make that number.
(08:48):
However, when a leader makes ittheir primary commitment to
create a workable workenvironment, to have a clear
vision of what we're trying toaccomplish, and believes that by
empowering their employees,they're going to make their
numbers as a secondary thing andthe analogy I like to think
about is in sports you can'tmanage the score on the
scoreboard.
You got to manage the playerson the field, and so often what
(09:10):
I see in leadership is theexecutive team managing the
score on the scoreboard, notrealizing that score is met by
your employees showing up andfeeling passionate and feeling
included, and not beingdistracted by little things
their pay or their work-lifebalance or the safety of their
environment.
Erin Vallier (09:29):
Yeah, those things make all the difference in the
world, especially when you'redealing in the health care
industry where you're caring forpeople, because you've got to
have happy people going into thehome to care for the people and
there's been a lot of evidenceto suggest that if your
caregivers are not happy, yourpatient outcomes drop.
So super, super important.
Peter Svenneby (09:51):
Think about it in the terms of leadership.
Who are the leaders and whereare they leading?
Well, in the case of the home,the leader is the clinician, the
provider that comes in, andwhere are they leading them?
Are they leading them tooptimism and a belief they're
going to get well or they'regoing to get through this or
that things are going to be okay, or are they leading them to
pessimism and frustration, andI'm not happy at my job?
Erin Vallier (10:13):
So how can leaders foster a positive and
supportive culture within theirhealthcare teams?
I know we've talked a littlebit why it's so crucial for
success, but how?
Peter Svenneby (10:24):
I listened to your podcast with Dr Louis Short
and Laurie Cabbage aboutpositive work culture as well.
It's a funny dynamic Almostacross the board board.
When I coach a CEO or a topleader of an organization and
we're outside of the day-to-daystresses that they encounter and
I asked them the question thatyou just asked me how can we
(10:46):
foster a positive culture, howcan we enable these things?
They immediately know theanswer.
So it's not such a question ofhow it's.
Usually these leaders know.
It's how do I manage thecompeting commitments that I'm
up against?
If you're private equity owned,how do I tell my operating
partner be patient.
I'm working on changing ourculture because it's going to
(11:09):
generate the numbers.
There's an interesting storythat was detailed in a book
called the Power of Habit byCharles Duhigg and the story was
about Alcoa and it occurredback in the 80s.
Alcoa had hired a new CEO, PaulO'Neill, and he goes to this
big meeting of investors andanalysts and it was really their
first exposure to this new CEOand they're asking questions and
(11:32):
want to talk about inventoriesand revenue and expenses.
And he said, no, we're notgoing to talk about that.
We have one focus and that'sgoing to be worker safety and he
went on to tell about how, youknow, at Alcoa, a big
manufacturing company, we havemachines that will rip people's
arms off and that's nottolerable anymore.
And we're not trying to be thesafest organization in the
United States, we're trying tohave zero injuries.
(11:56):
There's a story in the book thatdetails that one of the
investors ran back and made aquick phone call and said
they've hired a crazy hippie.
Sell all your stock immediately.
He doesn't know what he's doing.
End of the story is this isearly mid-1980s and around year
2000,.
When Paul O'Neill retired, theyhad added $25 billion to their
(12:16):
market capital.
They had grown 5X in size andthere was this shift towards
let's create a safe environmentfor our employees, which is
similar to what we're talkingabout here.
It's not a question of how.
It's a question of yourcommitments and your priorities
and understanding that thethings that you know to do are
(12:37):
going to be enablers to thethings that you're trying to
achieve.
Numerically Right, and it takesa lot of fortitude to fight off
all the pressures that a leaderhas to generate the numbers
short term versus generate theculture that's going to generate
the numbers long-term.
Erin Vallier (12:55):
It could be a little bit of a tough decision
short-term.
Peter Svenneby (12:59):
Yeah, it's not so much a how, it's a choice.
You're choosing theextraordinary leaders.
Make that choice and stand firm, and they're able to persuade
the powers that be over them tobe patient and the results will
come.
Erin Vallier (13:15):
It seems like a valuable skill set to have.
Peter Svenneby (13:18):
Yeah, they're the ones that we learn from
right.
Erin Vallier (13:21):
Yeah, they're the ones that we follow, they're the
leaders, they're the ones thatwill do whatever they ask, no
matter how difficult it is.
Peter Svenneby (13:31):
I'll circle to your question.
If something happens and weneed people to step up and help
with this survey or whatnot,they will.
Erin Vallier (13:39):
They will because they believe that the leader is
invested in their well-being andthey actually matter and not
just a number.
Peter Svenneby (13:47):
Yeah, there was another podcast you hosted a
couple of years ago with MikeMcSherry at Hierology.
He was talking to you about thekeys to attracting great talent
when you don't have great payand he said make work workable,
present a picture of work-lifebalance and share about your
culture and mission somethingthat's meaningful to these
(14:08):
people and give them a careerpath.
And it's all the same stuff.
Erin Vallier (14:12):
Given the dynamic nature of the healthcare
industry, how can leaders helptheir teams adapt to change and
stay resilient?
Peter Svenneby (14:21):
The answers are similar, like I said, to earlier
podcasts, the ones with DrShort and Laura Cabbage.
At the end of the day, COVIDpresented this to us in a very
direct way.
There are things that happenbeyond our control that make
life tough, and I think itreally comes down to
acknowledgement and empathy.
From the leadership perspectiveof this happened.
(14:43):
I understand it's made yourlife tough.
I am committed to doingeverything I can to make your
work workable and to make yourlife better again.
And what we're facing here'swhat we have to do.
When you say the dynamic natureof the healthcare industry,
healthcare deals with this allthe time.
Covid certainly brought it tothe fore so that we can see it,
(15:03):
but there are smaller but stillstress producing incidents all
the time, and it's the clearcommunication, the hey, we're
part of a team, theacknowledgement, the empathy and
the appreciation perhaps ofjust acknowledging to people hey
, we see that you're workingyour tail off and this is a
(15:24):
tough time and we're going toget through this.
And that applies to leadershipin all industries, but probably
even more so here, to your pointthat somebody's got to keep the
in-home providers charged up.
Erin Vallier (15:39):
There's got to be a humanness and a sense of
empathy, leadership just to keepthem motivated.
Life is about 10% what happensand 90% what you do with it.
You've got to make youremployees feel like you're in it
with them.
That's what I'm hearing you say.
Peter Svenneby (15:56):
Yeah, absolutely .
You're trying to come to a netpositive of energy too with
these folks, right?
I don't believe, as a leader,that it's fair to.
Your employee shows up, youdrain every bit of energy from
them and you send them back hometo be crabby with their family,
right, and you send them backhome to be crabby with their
family, right?
So, taking responsibility for abalance of providing energy to
(16:20):
them as well as expecting themto expend that energy there in
the home.
Erin Vallier (16:23):
That's a little bit of a challenge in the health
care industry, but I thinkwe're getting better, because
health care is 24-7, and youhave to have that staff
sometimes 24-7.
So the work-life balance hasalways been a challenge for care
workers, but I think we've comea long way in terms of being a
little bit more empathetic andproviding them more
(16:44):
flexibilities with technologiesand flexible time off and stuff
like that.
So we're moving in the rightdirection, that's for sure.
What advice do you have forhealth care professionals
looking to enhance theirleadership skills?
Are there any habits orpractices they should be
focusing on?
Peter Svenneby (17:01):
It comes back to what we discussed already it's
a choice and it's a commitment,but maybe an idea that will help
clarify what the choices andthe commitments are.
I like to think about allemotion as having two possible
roots emanating out of fear and,on the other side, they're
(17:28):
emanating out of love, but as asynonym for love, out of purpose
or what we're trying to createor what we're building, or
something like that, andnoticing throughout each day and
every moment, as you're makingdecisions, as you're reacting to
situations, as you'recommunicating with people, who
am I being and where am I comingfrom?
Am I coming from a fear?
There was another example thatMike Mishary hired from
(17:49):
Hierology.
Early in that podcast, hementioned that so often.
When we can't build a strongculture, it's because we hired
the wrong people to begin with.
And when you dissect thatsituation, why did we hire the
wrong people?
We were afraid of leaving theposition open until we found the
right people.
Erin Vallier (18:06):
We call it a fire hire.
Peter Svenneby (18:08):
Yes, we were more committed to the speed
rather than the right fit.
And so, in little decisionslike that, am I choosing to do
this out of fear, or am Ichoosing to do this out of a
purpose, out of a vision, out ofsomething we're trying to
create and really noticing howmuch fear is driving our
behavior, how much it's drivingthe communications we have, the
(18:32):
decisions we make, afraid offailure, afraid of looking bad,
afraid of not pleasing yoursuperiors and not getting that
promotion or that raise orwhatever else, rather than a
focus and a commitment to apurpose Building a great team,
creating an energized culture,retaining a particular employee
(18:54):
because they're important to you, right?
Erin Vallier (18:57):
It takes a lot of courage and self-awareness.
That's what I take from it.
Peter Svenneby (19:02):
Yeah, it takes courage, self-awareness, but
it's a choice.
It's a choice.
We choose leadership.
You don't have to.
Those of us who are presentedthe choice can choose management
.
We have the tools of force andpower and authority, but that
doesn't achieve the same results.
Erin Vallier (19:20):
No, it doesn't.
It feels much different whenyou have a tyrant telling you
what to do.
Peter Svenneby (19:25):
Yeah.
Erin Vallier (19:26):
It does not produce pretty work, that's for
sure.
Peter Svenneby (19:29):
You can get the numbers, but only for a while
and there's fallout.
Right, You're going to haveattrition.
You're going to have turnover.
You're going to have your ownstress.
Erin Vallier (19:37):
Absolutely.
I think leadership is the way.
It's the harder path, the road.
Less traveled, it's definitelythe right path.
It's the harder path, the roadless traveled.
Peter Svenneby (19:44):
It's definitely the right path.
There's another saying I getfrom my buddy, john King In
order to choose leadership to beextraordinary, we have to give
up being special, that we'respecial when we're appointed
authority.
We're special when we'repromoted.
The extraordinary path is whenwe give up being special.
We let that go and there's acertain degree of humility in it
(20:05):
and of self-honesty in it.
Erin Vallier (20:09):
Oh, I love that.
I'm going to have to steal thatfrom you.
How does coaching andconsulting impact a healthcare
team's leadership and outcomes?
Peter Svenneby (20:19):
In my practice and we've been doing this for a
while now we began buildingsales operations because, at the
end of the day, if you're notselling whatever it is you
provide, you die.
And for me it was about helpingcompanies thrive.
And then I realized at somepoint that it's not always the
sales operation that's ourgrowth and our thriving, and I
(20:41):
realized that leadership was abig piece of this are thriving,
and I realized that leadershipis a big piece of this, that we
have to build a leadershipmindset, we have to build a
vision for where we're going andcreate alignment amongst the
company and everything elsebefore all the other pieces of
organizational effectivenessmatter.
And so the coaching andconsulting impact typically
starts at the very top.
(21:02):
Impact typically starts at thevery top and it starts with what
do you really want to createhere?
And let's get the input of allof your leaders in the
organization on the same page.
Let's generate alignment.
That means some of us are goingto compromise and say, well,
we're aligned.
We may not be in perfectagreement, but generally we're
marching in the same direction,and only at that point are you
(21:24):
able to have a clear, unifiedcommunication.
We're marching in the samedirection and only at that point
are you able to have a clear,unified communication out to all
of the rest of your employees,whether that's 50 or 5,000 or
500,000,.
That here's what we're doing,here's how we're going about it,
here's what matters, here'swhat we're committed to, and so
that often we'll call it a NorthStar.
What is your North Star?
(21:45):
Where are you going?
One of the primary prerequisitesfor leadership is that you're
taking a stand for somethinggreater than yourself, and so
typically, an organization'sNorth Star is something that's
aspirational.
It's not a guarantee that we'regoing to get there, but the
essence of what it is excitesevery employee, all the way down
(22:07):
to your most junior employeesthat hired last week.
It's like part of the reasonthey joined you.
And so getting that in place,establishing that, getting the
team aligned and once you havethat, it becomes a litmus test
for decision making Does thisalign to where we're going or
does it not?
Does this employee align tothis North Star or does it not?
Does this employee align tothis north star or do they not?
And from there you can execute.
(22:29):
It's really the prerequisite togreat execution.
So we start with where are yougoing?
What are you trying toaccomplish.
Let's get everybody aligned onthe same page with that.
Now let's look at where you'renot executing in alignment with
that.
Erin Vallier (22:45):
Valuable.
Get that alignment and thenhelp it drive all of your
decisions and you have someone acoach, a consultant to help you
architect all of that and holdyou accountable until it just
becomes ingrained in the culture.
Peter Svenneby (22:59):
If you're a manager five, seven, eight
layers off from the CEO, but youunderstand the essence of how
we make decisions, you wouldmake a decision perfectly
aligned with how anybody else inthe organization, all the way
to the CEO, would make thatdecision.
And that's when you get anincredible organization.
Erin Vallier (23:17):
So, for those intrigued by your message and
they're curious about thecoaching and consulting that you
do, what's the first step theycan take to incorporate some of
your ideas?
Coaching and consulting thatyou do.
Peter Svenneby (23:26):
What's the first step they can take to
incorporate some of your ideas?
First step's a choice, right?
What I find when we beginworking with an organization is
the leaders are experiencing toomuch anxiety, stress, etc.
And leadership is notcharacterized by those things.
You know, when a leader isbehaving like a leader and doing
the things that leaders shoulddo, it should be pretty
effortless, right.
(23:46):
And when they're experiencingstress and anxiety and ill
health and all those things as aleader, there must be some
conflict between how they'rebehaving, what they're committed
to and how they put themselvesout in the world.
So it's a choice, and often atthat level, it's beneficial to
have an external coach, a personthat presents the mirror to you
(24:09):
and helps you navigate some ofthese inner conflicts.
Right, the coach's job is notto give advice, it's to help one
navigate the conversation withtheir own higher self and
distinguish.
Yeah, this is what I know Ishould do and this is what I'm
actually doing.
It's not telling you anythingyou don't know.
(24:31):
It's helping you navigate thatconversation with your own self.
And so the choice of leadershipis the first step and from
there it's just an ongoingcommitment and a path of growth,
and I don't know a leader yetfor whom that isn't a journey.
It's not a quick fix.
It's just an ongoing commitmentand a path of growth, and I
don't know a leader yet for whomthat isn't a journey.
It's not a quick fix.
It's a lifelong journey that'sgratifying on all levels.
Erin Vallier (24:53):
It's a journey that can be traveled a little
bit faster with the help of acoach, that's for sure, at least
in my experience.
I always perform way betterwhen I have somebody holding
that mirror up.
Peter Svenneby (25:05):
There's a certain amount of courage to
step into that conversationknowing that you're expected to
be completely honest andcompletely transparent and
really confront yourself.
There's a courageous jump thatoccurs to begin with that boy,
at least for me.
Once you make the jump, it's ajourney you're going to continue
on with.
Erin Vallier (25:24):
So any final thoughts or resources you want
to recommend to the audience.
Peter Svenneby (25:33):
Boy.
There are tremendous books.
There are tremendous videos onYouTube.
At the end of the day, ifyou're really passionate and
motivated, reach out to me.
I've got a unique last name.
It's easy to find me.
There are not 10 of us in theUS and I'm happy to share with
you a book list or coaches thatI've engaged with, programs I've
done, et cetera, et cetera.
I think my journey on my ownhas really been one of personal
growth and trying to tap intoeverything I can find to
continue on this journey.
So happy to share that withanyone.
Erin Vallier (25:53):
Fantastic, and I know you were very gracious to
extend a special offer to thelisteners today, so would you
please tell them what the offeris and how they can take
advantage of it.
Peter Svenneby (26:03):
Yeah, if this conversation resonates, reach
out to me, let's have aconversation.
For me, this is where I get myenergy, is helping other leaders
as they're making this journeyand transforming their
organization and really tryingto sort out where should I focus
and how do I accomplish what Ienvision.
So, yeah, reach out to me,let's have a conversation.
Erin Vallier (26:23):
And how can they best reach out to you.
Peter Svenneby (26:26):
Boy.
Linkedin is easy.
Peter , the spelling should bein the podcast Reach out on
LinkedIn, or you can certainlyfind me online on our website
and reach out there.
Erin Vallier (26:36):
Thank you so much for coming on the show.
It's been a wonderfulconversation.
Peter Svenneby (26:41):
Grateful for the opportunity.
Thank you so much.
Jeff Howell (26:44):
Home Health 360 is presented by Alaya Care and
hosted by Jeff Howell and ErinVallier.
First, we want to thank ouramazing guests and listeners.
Second, our episodes air twicea month, so be sure to subscribe
today so you don't miss anepisode.
Erin Vallier (26:58):
And last but not least, if you liked this episode
and want to learn more aboutall things home-based care, you
can explore all of our episodesat alayacare.
com/homehealth360 or visit us onyour favorite podcast platform.
Management is appointed by authority, but
leadership is appointed by thosebeing led, and so when we start
talking about how doeseffective leadership impact
things like employees andpatients, we have to consider
the difference betweenmanagement, which is being given
the authority, and leadership,which is people being enrolled
(00:20):
and choosing to follow, choosingto go somewhere with those
leaders right.
And that begs a couple ofadditional questions who are the
leaders and where are theyleading us?
Erin Vallier (00:41):
Welcome to another episode of the HomeHelp360
podcast, where we speak tohome-based care professionals
from around the globe.
I'm your host, Erin Vallier,and today I am joined by someone
who I respect and admire, PeterSvenneby.
Peter is an executive coach andan expert in organizational
transformation, leadership, andsales.
(01:03):
Organizational transformation,leadership, and sales.
In the 25 years since foundinghis company, Syntuity, he has
worked with organizations aroundthe globe, ranging from small,
local non-profits to global 2000enterprises.
He gets his energy from helpinggreat ideas, great products and
great companies grow and thrive, and he holds a degree in
(01:25):
engineering from the Universityof California, Irvine, which
seems completely unrelated tosales coaching.
So I have to ask how did you getfrom engineering to coaching,
peter?
Peter Svenneby (01:38):
Yeah, anyone who went through engineering school
and I'm sure plenty ofphysicians who listen to this
understand that from med schoolyou get out and you realize what
you really want.
I did software engineering andengineering work for a few years
and then realized that I neededto be around people a little
bit more.
I accidentally landed in myfirst sales role probably eight
years after school but realizedwhat a deep journey it is to
(02:02):
understand the dynamic ofselling and leadership, and the
two I really find go very muchhand in hand.
The journey in sales and theleadership very much is a
similar journey on both parts.
Erin Vallier (02:13):
Can you share a little bit about your background
in sales, coaching andleadership consulting?
Peter Svenneby (02:18):
I took my first sales job, like I said, a few
years into my career and as anengineer who is very much on the
pragmatic objective give me thenumbers and the answer and work
things out it did not comenaturally or easily for me and
so I guess for me it was so muchabout self-discovery and
understanding people andlistening and details that maybe
(02:41):
would not be associated withengineers to begin with.
So, long story short, I had alot to learn and because I was
going through the learningprocess, none of it occurred to
me naturally.
I think it made a goodfoundation to actually coach
others who were in that processof learning how to become a
leader and how to become asalesperson and lead sales and
such as that.
I think it was my lack ofnatural ability that really set
(03:03):
me up and it's been a you know.
Erin Vallier (03:19):
I think it was my lack of natural ability that
really set me up and it's been,you know, dating myself.
But a 30 plus.
They've read and all theexperiences and conversations
they've had.
So tell me, how does effectiveleadership impact things like
employees and patients, Becausethese things are always top of
mind for folks in the healthcareindustry.
Peter Svenneby (03:39):
Yeah, and it's a really big question at a really
high level.
Are you willing to like peelthat onion down a little bit,
let's do it.
First, there's a distinctionbetween management and
leadership that I was given by aclose friend, john King, who
wrote the book Tribal Leadership.
He always tells me managementis appointed by authority, but
(04:01):
leadership is appointed by thosebeing led.
And so when we start talkingabout how does effective
leadership impact things likeemployees and patients, we have
to consider the differencebetween management, which is
being given the authority, andleadership, which is people
being enrolled and choosing tofollow, choosing to go somewhere
(04:22):
with those leaders right,choosing to go somewhere with
those leaders right.
And that begs a couple ofadditional questions who are the
leaders and where are theyleading us?
Right, we know who our managersare, we know our bosses are, we
know what we've been told to do.
But I think, at a deeper levelin the organization, when you
really look at top leadershipand who they show up, as every
(04:43):
day at work, what you can see,especially from my point of view
when I'm coaching anddeveloping an organization, is
there are core commitments thatdrive a leader and their
decision-making and the way theyshow up.
And so often in executiveleadership, what we see is those
core commitments are to theownership, to the investors, to
(05:04):
the KPIs, to the numbers, andthey're not to a mission or a
vision for excellent care or foran excellent culture or
something of that nature.
And so when we talk abouteffective leadership, the first
thing we have to ask is who arethe leaders and where are we
being led?
But when we think about anorganization where the leaders
(05:25):
have painted a vision for theentire organization and
communicated it clearly, thathere's the standard of care we
wish to provide and here's whyit's important and here are
examples of how it makes adifference in people's lives and
we begin to lead our people tosharing that vision and bringing
it to life in the organization.
(05:47):
It changes everything, right.
It changes everything about howthe employees show up and their
understanding of what they'resupposed to do.
And the other thing to consider, when we think about patients,
who are the patients leaders?
They're the clinicians thatshow up in the home, right?
They're the ones that show upand embody the example of a
(06:07):
positive attitude and embody theexample of when there's a
setback, we have something to do.
It's a process.
Their attitude, their demeanor,their commitment, their vision
for what they're trying toaccomplish in the home is the
leadership that the patientrequires to get through whatever
it is they're dealing with,right?
Erin Vallier (06:27):
That's deep.
I can see how that's played outin my career.
I worked on the provider sidebefore hopping into technology
and I got to see firsthand howdifficult it is to run an agency
because you have to deal withgovernment payers, other payers
and people.
It's difficult and the stateknocks on your door because you
(06:48):
shut up five minutes late andsomebody calls and complains and
it takes a right kind of leaderto inspire the employees to
work overtime, to dig up andlike okay, there's the survey.
You've got to dive in all handson deck and if you don't have
the right kind of leadership,then you're just going to sink.
You're not going to besuccessful at all.
(07:09):
So in your experience, Peter,what are some common challenges
that healthcare executives facein terms of leadership and how
can they address thosechallenges?
Peter Svenneby (07:19):
And I think what you just brought up really
touches that, and it's not justhealthcare executives, it's
executives in every business.
But healthcare executives, Ithink, have an added level of
difficulty.
As a leader in an organization,we are pulled towards many
different commitments, not theleast of which is ownership,
kpis, revenue, profit, stockprice if you're a public company
(07:42):
, et cetera, et cetera.
Again, leadership comes back toyour primary commitments.
And if your primary commitmentis to make a number, then the
secondary commitment becomesyour people, your culture, these
other things.
Right, and that's evident inthe way leaders show up and how
the company either ralliesaround them to achieve things or
(08:05):
not.
Right, because as employees wedon't get excited about the
executive making their bonus orthe stock price going up.
That doesn't change our lifeand for the most part we want to
feel included and part ofsomething bigger and such.
But when leadership is pulledmore strongly by their bosses,
(08:26):
by the number, by the stockmarket, by their investors, by
their board, than they are bymaking work workable for their
employees, then you get adynamic where the employees
don't step up at a criticalmoment.
Right, that's their problemthat we don't make that number.
Right, that's their problemthat we don't make that number.
(08:48):
However, when a leader makes ittheir primary commitment to
create a workable workenvironment, to have a clear
vision of what we're trying toaccomplish, and believes that by
empowering their employees,they're going to make their
numbers as a secondary thing andthe analogy I like to think
about is in sports you can'tmanage the score on the
scoreboard.
You got to manage the playerson the field, and so often what
(09:10):
I see in leadership is theexecutive team managing the
score on the scoreboard, notrealizing that score is met by
your employees showing up andfeeling passionate and feeling
included, and not beingdistracted by little things
their pay or their work-lifebalance or the safety of their
environment.
Erin Vallier (09:29):
Yeah, those things make all the difference in the
world, especially when you'redealing in the health care
industry where you're caring forpeople, because you've got to
have happy people going into thehome to care for the people and
there's been a lot of evidenceto suggest that if your
caregivers are not happy, yourpatient outcomes drop.
So super, super important.
Peter Svenneby (09:51):
Think about it in the terms of leadership.
Who are the leaders and whereare they leading?
Well, in the case of the home,the leader is the clinician, the
provider that comes in, andwhere are they leading them?
Are they leading them tooptimism and a belief they're
going to get well or they'regoing to get through this or
that things are going to be okay, or are they leading them to
pessimism and frustration, andI'm not happy at my job?
Erin Vallier (10:13):
So how can leaders foster a positive and
supportive culture within theirhealthcare teams?
I know we've talked a littlebit why it's so crucial for
success, but how?
Peter Svenneby (10:24):
I listened to your podcast with Dr Louis Short
and Laurie Cabbage aboutpositive work culture as well.
It's a funny dynamic Almostacross the board board.
When I coach a CEO or a topleader of an organization and
we're outside of the day-to-daystresses that they encounter and
I asked them the question thatyou just asked me how can we
(10:46):
foster a positive culture, howcan we enable these things?
They immediately know theanswer.
So it's not such a question ofhow it's.
Usually these leaders know.
It's how do I manage thecompeting commitments that I'm
up against?
If you're private equity owned,how do I tell my operating
partner be patient.
I'm working on changing ourculture because it's going to
(11:09):
generate the numbers.
There's an interesting storythat was detailed in a book
called the Power of Habit byCharles Duhigg and the story was
about Alcoa and it occurredback in the 80s.
Alcoa had hired a new CEO, PaulO'Neill, and he goes to this
big meeting of investors andanalysts and it was really their
first exposure to this new CEOand they're asking questions and
(11:32):
want to talk about inventoriesand revenue and expenses.
And he said, no, we're notgoing to talk about that.
We have one focus and that'sgoing to be worker safety and he
went on to tell about how, youknow, at Alcoa, a big
manufacturing company, we havemachines that will rip people's
arms off and that's nottolerable anymore.
And we're not trying to be thesafest organization in the
United States, we're trying tohave zero injuries.
(11:56):
There's a story in the book thatdetails that one of the
investors ran back and made aquick phone call and said
they've hired a crazy hippie.
Sell all your stock immediately.
He doesn't know what he's doing.
End of the story is this isearly mid-1980s and around year
2000,.
When Paul O'Neill retired, theyhad added $25 billion to their
(12:16):
market capital.
They had grown 5X in size andthere was this shift towards
let's create a safe environmentfor our employees, which is
similar to what we're talkingabout here.
It's not a question of how.
It's a question of yourcommitments and your priorities
and understanding that thethings that you know to do are
(12:37):
going to be enablers to thethings that you're trying to
achieve.
Numerically Right, and it takesa lot of fortitude to fight off
all the pressures that a leaderhas to generate the numbers
short term versus generate theculture that's going to generate
the numbers long-term.
Erin Vallier (12:55):
It could be a little bit of a tough decision
short-term.
Peter Svenneby (12:59):
Yeah, it's not so much a how, it's a choice.
You're choosing theextraordinary leaders.
Make that choice and stand firm, and they're able to persuade
the powers that be over them tobe patient and the results will
come.
Erin Vallier (13:15):
It seems like a valuable skill set to have.
Peter Svenneby (13:18):
Yeah, they're the ones that we learn from
right.
Erin Vallier (13:21):
Yeah, they're the ones that we follow, they're the
leaders, they're the ones thatwill do whatever they ask, no
matter how difficult it is.
Peter Svenneby (13:31):
I'll circle to your question.
If something happens and weneed people to step up and help
with this survey or whatnot,they will.
Erin Vallier (13:39):
They will because they believe that the leader is
invested in their well-being andthey actually matter and not
just a number.
Peter Svenneby (13:47):
Yeah, there was another podcast you hosted a
couple of years ago with MikeMcSherry at Hierology.
He was talking to you about thekeys to attracting great talent
when you don't have great payand he said make work workable,
present a picture of work-lifebalance and share about your
culture and mission somethingthat's meaningful to these
(14:08):
people and give them a careerpath.
And it's all the same stuff.
Erin Vallier (14:12):
Given the dynamic nature of the healthcare
industry, how can leaders helptheir teams adapt to change and
stay resilient?
Peter Svenneby (14:21):
The answers are similar, like I said, to earlier
podcasts, the ones with DrShort and Laura Cabbage.
At the end of the day, COVIDpresented this to us in a very
direct way.
There are things that happenbeyond our control that make
life tough, and I think itreally comes down to
acknowledgement and empathy.
From the leadership perspectiveof this happened.
(14:43):
I understand it's made yourlife tough.
I am committed to doingeverything I can to make your
work workable and to make yourlife better again.
And what we're facing here'swhat we have to do.
When you say the dynamic natureof the healthcare industry,
healthcare deals with this allthe time.
Covid certainly brought it tothe fore so that we can see it,
(15:03):
but there are smaller but stillstress producing incidents all
the time, and it's the clearcommunication, the hey, we're
part of a team, theacknowledgement, the empathy and
the appreciation perhaps ofjust acknowledging to people hey
, we see that you're workingyour tail off and this is a
(15:24):
tough time and we're going toget through this.
And that applies to leadershipin all industries, but probably
even more so here, to your pointthat somebody's got to keep the
in-home providers charged up.
Erin Vallier (15:39):
There's got to be a humanness and a sense of
empathy, leadership just to keepthem motivated.
Life is about 10% what happensand 90% what you do with it.
You've got to make youremployees feel like you're in it
with them.
That's what I'm hearing you say.
Peter Svenneby (15:56):
Yeah, absolutely .
You're trying to come to a netpositive of energy too with
these folks, right?
I don't believe, as a leader,that it's fair to.
Your employee shows up, youdrain every bit of energy from
them and you send them back hometo be crabby with their family,
right, and you send them backhome to be crabby with their
family, right?
So, taking responsibility for abalance of providing energy to
(16:20):
them as well as expecting themto expend that energy there in
the home.
Erin Vallier (16:23):
That's a little bit of a challenge in the health
care industry, but I thinkwe're getting better, because
health care is 24-7, and youhave to have that staff
sometimes 24-7.
So the work-life balance hasalways been a challenge for care
workers, but I think we've comea long way in terms of being a
little bit more empathetic andproviding them more
(16:44):
flexibilities with technologiesand flexible time off and stuff
like that.
So we're moving in the rightdirection, that's for sure.
What advice do you have forhealth care professionals
looking to enhance theirleadership skills?
Are there any habits orpractices they should be
focusing on?
Peter Svenneby (17:01):
It comes back to what we discussed already it's
a choice and it's a commitment,but maybe an idea that will help
clarify what the choices andthe commitments are.
I like to think about allemotion as having two possible
roots emanating out of fear and,on the other side, they're
(17:28):
emanating out of love, but as asynonym for love, out of purpose
or what we're trying to createor what we're building, or
something like that, andnoticing throughout each day and
every moment, as you're makingdecisions, as you're reacting to
situations, as you'recommunicating with people, who
am I being and where am I comingfrom?
Am I coming from a fear?
There was another example thatMike Mishary hired from
(17:49):
Hierology.
Early in that podcast, hementioned that so often.
When we can't build a strongculture, it's because we hired
the wrong people to begin with.
And when you dissect thatsituation, why did we hire the
wrong people?
We were afraid of leaving theposition open until we found the
right people.
Erin Vallier (18:06):
We call it a fire hire.
Peter Svenneby (18:08):
Yes, we were more committed to the speed
rather than the right fit.
And so, in little decisionslike that, am I choosing to do
this out of fear, or am Ichoosing to do this out of a
purpose, out of a vision, out ofsomething we're trying to
create and really noticing howmuch fear is driving our
behavior, how much it's drivingthe communications we have, the
(18:32):
decisions we make, afraid offailure, afraid of looking bad,
afraid of not pleasing yoursuperiors and not getting that
promotion or that raise orwhatever else, rather than a
focus and a commitment to apurpose Building a great team,
creating an energized culture,retaining a particular employee
(18:54):
because they're important to you, right?
Erin Vallier (18:57):
It takes a lot of courage and self-awareness.
That's what I take from it.
Peter Svenneby (19:02):
Yeah, it takes courage, self-awareness, but
it's a choice.
It's a choice.
We choose leadership.
You don't have to.
Those of us who are presentedthe choice can choose management
.
We have the tools of force andpower and authority, but that
doesn't achieve the same results.
Erin Vallier (19:20):
No, it doesn't.
It feels much different whenyou have a tyrant telling you
what to do.
Peter Svenneby (19:25):
Yeah.
Erin Vallier (19:26):
It does not produce pretty work, that's for
sure.
Peter Svenneby (19:29):
You can get the numbers, but only for a while
and there's fallout.
Right, You're going to haveattrition.
You're going to have turnover.
You're going to have your ownstress.
Erin Vallier (19:37):
Absolutely.
I think leadership is the way.
It's the harder path, the road.
Less traveled, it's definitelythe right path.
It's the harder path, the roadless traveled.
Peter Svenneby (19:44):
It's definitely the right path.
There's another saying I getfrom my buddy, john King In
order to choose leadership to beextraordinary, we have to give
up being special, that we'respecial when we're appointed
authority.
We're special when we'repromoted.
The extraordinary path is whenwe give up being special.
We let that go and there's acertain degree of humility in it
(20:05):
and of self-honesty in it.
Erin Vallier (20:09):
Oh, I love that.
I'm going to have to steal thatfrom you.
How does coaching andconsulting impact a healthcare
team's leadership and outcomes?
Peter Svenneby (20:19):
In my practice and we've been doing this for a
while now we began buildingsales operations because, at the
end of the day, if you're notselling whatever it is you
provide, you die.
And for me it was about helpingcompanies thrive.
And then I realized at somepoint that it's not always the
sales operation that's ourgrowth and our thriving, and I
(20:41):
realized that leadership was abig piece of this are thriving,
and I realized that leadershipis a big piece of this, that we
have to build a leadershipmindset, we have to build a
vision for where we're going andcreate alignment amongst the
company and everything elsebefore all the other pieces of
organizational effectivenessmatter.
And so the coaching andconsulting impact typically
starts at the very top.
(21:02):
Impact typically starts at thevery top and it starts with what
do you really want to createhere?
And let's get the input of allof your leaders in the
organization on the same page.
Let's generate alignment.
That means some of us are goingto compromise and say, well,
we're aligned.
We may not be in perfectagreement, but generally we're
marching in the same direction,and only at that point are you
(21:24):
able to have a clear, unifiedcommunication.
We're marching in the samedirection and only at that point
are you able to have a clear,unified communication out to all
of the rest of your employees,whether that's 50 or 5,000 or
500,000,.
That here's what we're doing,here's how we're going about it,
here's what matters, here'swhat we're committed to, and so
that often we'll call it a NorthStar.
What is your North Star?
(21:45):
Where are you going?
One of the primary prerequisitesfor leadership is that you're
taking a stand for somethinggreater than yourself, and so
typically, an organization'sNorth Star is something that's
aspirational.
It's not a guarantee that we'regoing to get there, but the
essence of what it is excitesevery employee, all the way down
(22:07):
to your most junior employeesthat hired last week.
It's like part of the reasonthey joined you.
And so getting that in place,establishing that, getting the
team aligned and once you havethat, it becomes a litmus test
for decision making Does thisalign to where we're going or
does it not?
Does this employee align tothis North Star or does it not?
Does this employee align tothis north star or do they not?
And from there you can execute.
(22:29):
It's really the prerequisite togreat execution.
So we start with where are yougoing?
What are you trying toaccomplish.
Let's get everybody aligned onthe same page with that.
Now let's look at where you'renot executing in alignment with
that.
Erin Vallier (22:45):
Valuable.
Get that alignment and thenhelp it drive all of your
decisions and you have someone acoach, a consultant to help you
architect all of that and holdyou accountable until it just
becomes ingrained in the culture.
Peter Svenneby (22:59):
If you're a manager five, seven, eight
layers off from the CEO, but youunderstand the essence of how
we make decisions, you wouldmake a decision perfectly
aligned with how anybody else inthe organization, all the way
to the CEO, would make thatdecision.
And that's when you get anincredible organization.
Erin Vallier (23:17):
So, for those intrigued by your message and
they're curious about thecoaching and consulting that you
do, what's the first step theycan take to incorporate some of
your ideas?
Coaching and consulting thatyou do.
Peter Svenneby (23:26):
What's the first step they can take to
incorporate some of your ideas?
First step's a choice, right?
What I find when we beginworking with an organization is
the leaders are experiencing toomuch anxiety, stress, etc.
And leadership is notcharacterized by those things.
You know, when a leader isbehaving like a leader and doing
the things that leaders shoulddo, it should be pretty
effortless, right.
(23:46):
And when they're experiencingstress and anxiety and ill
health and all those things as aleader, there must be some
conflict between how they'rebehaving, what they're committed
to and how they put themselvesout in the world.
So it's a choice, and often atthat level, it's beneficial to
have an external coach, a personthat presents the mirror to you
(24:09):
and helps you navigate some ofthese inner conflicts.
Right, the coach's job is notto give advice, it's to help one
navigate the conversation withtheir own higher self and
distinguish.
Yeah, this is what I know Ishould do and this is what I'm
actually doing.
It's not telling you anythingyou don't know.
(24:31):
It's helping you navigate thatconversation with your own self.
And so the choice of leadershipis the first step and from
there it's just an ongoingcommitment and a path of growth,
and I don't know a leader yetfor whom that isn't a journey.
It's not a quick fix.
It's just an ongoing commitmentand a path of growth, and I
don't know a leader yet for whomthat isn't a journey.
It's not a quick fix.
It's a lifelong journey that'sgratifying on all levels.
Erin Vallier (24:53):
It's a journey that can be traveled a little
bit faster with the help of acoach, that's for sure, at least
in my experience.
I always perform way betterwhen I have somebody holding
that mirror up.
Peter Svenneby (25:05):
There's a certain amount of courage to
step into that conversationknowing that you're expected to
be completely honest andcompletely transparent and
really confront yourself.
There's a courageous jump thatoccurs to begin with that boy,
at least for me.
Once you make the jump, it's ajourney you're going to continue
on with.
Erin Vallier (25:24):
So any final thoughts or resources you want
to recommend to the audience.
Peter Svenneby (25:33):
Boy.
There are tremendous books.
There are tremendous videos onYouTube.
At the end of the day, ifyou're really passionate and
motivated, reach out to me.
I've got a unique last name.
It's easy to find me.
There are not 10 of us in theUS and I'm happy to share with
you a book list or coaches thatI've engaged with, programs I've
done, et cetera, et cetera.
I think my journey on my ownhas really been one of personal
growth and trying to tap intoeverything I can find to
continue on this journey.
So happy to share that withanyone.
Erin Vallier (25:53):
Fantastic, and I know you were very gracious to
extend a special offer to thelisteners today, so would you
please tell them what the offeris and how they can take
advantage of it.
Peter Svenneby (26:03):
Yeah, if this conversation resonates, reach
out to me, let's have aconversation.
For me, this is where I get myenergy, is helping other leaders
as they're making this journeyand transforming their
organization and really tryingto sort out where should I focus
and how do I accomplish what Ienvision.
So, yeah, reach out to me,let's have a conversation.
Erin Vallier (26:23):
And how can they best reach out to you.
Peter Svenneby (26:26):
Boy.
Linkedin is easy.
Peter , the spelling should bein the podcast Reach out on
LinkedIn, or you can certainlyfind me online on our website
and reach out there.
Erin Vallier (26:36):
Thank you so much for coming on the show.
It's been a wonderfulconversation.
Peter Svenneby (26:41):
Grateful for the opportunity.
Thank you so much.
Jeff Howell (26:44):
Home Health 360 is presented by Alaya Care and
hosted by Jeff Howell and ErinVallier.
First, we want to thank ouramazing guests and listeners.
Second, our episodes air twicea month, so be sure to subscribe
today so you don't miss anepisode.
Erin Vallier (26:58):
And last but not least, if you liked this episode
and want to learn more aboutall things home-based care, you
can explore all of our episodesat alayacare.
com/homehealth360 or visit us onyour favorite podcast platform.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.