In this raw and honest episode of Honey, We Need to Chat, we dive into one of the most misunderstood yet widespread relationship challenges, burnout. Whether you’re the one feeling physically, emotionally, or mentally drained, or you're supporting a partner through exhaustion, this episode will resonate deeply.
We unpack what burnout actually looks like in a relationship, the cultural lies that normalise overwhelm, and the signs you might be missing until it’s too late. From real stories of personal burnout, to practical strategies for prevention and recovery, this episode is filled with relatable insight, vulnerability, and actionable tools.
Tune in to learn:
The subtle signs of burnout you shouldn’t ignore
How to navigate burnout in marriage or partnership
Practical tools to rebalance when you're already running on empty
The emotional aftermath of supporting someone in burnout
Why cultural “busyness” is breaking our connections
Whether you’re in burnout, on the edge, or just want to build healthier rhythms—you’ll leave feeling seen, equipped, and empowered.
🎧 Available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, and everywhere you stream.
💬 Let us know your thoughts and share this with someone who needs it.
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burnout in relationships, marriage burnout, support your partner through burnout, emotional exhaustion, relationship podcast, COVID burnout, partner mental health, burnout signs, burnout prevention, couple communication, overwhelmed parents, hustle culture, burnout recovery, Christian marriage podcast, practical relationship advice
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Honey, we need to chat. Hey guys, welcome back to
another episode of. Honey, we need to chat.
Yeah, we do. The podcast where we believe
that when communication dies. Bad things happen.
(00:26):
We didn't even rehearse. Rehearse Welcome This is our
chit chat episode and today we're diving into a heavy topic.
And a relatable topic. And a relatable topic, yes, very
relevant to us. That's something we have
navigated and also referred to on the podcast many times, which
is burnout, navigating burnout, supporting a partner through
burnout, going through burnout yourself.
We're going to touch on a whole bunch of stuff relating to
(00:48):
burnout and practical tips on how you can help prevent and how
you can help navigate those waters if you find yourself
there. So stick around for that.
We've also got a practical and applicable reality check corner
at the end as well, also relating to the topic of
burnout. And while we start, because I
always forget, please like, share, subscribe, any of those
(01:09):
things, just pick one of them because that goes a big way in
in helping us and supporting us reach other people with this
content. Absolutely so.
Please do that now. Please.
Thank you. Thank you.
Bonnie's just making yourself comfortable, everything.
Yeah, she's turned the light on before and.
She turned it off. All right, well, let's dive in.
We're going to have a look through what Burnout is.
We didn't want this episode to be just fluffy and kind of light
(01:30):
because it's not a fluffy light topic and and because we've
lived it, we wanted it to be really practical and actually
helpful. So that's the aim of today, that
it can be real and raw and actually applicable to you.
It's for anyone who's kind of been having this kind of
niggling sensation that something might not be in
balance going on in the background.
Anyone who's experienced burnoutor had a partner that's gone
(01:51):
through it, it can be really different for each person.
But basically this is all because we've been there and
we've experienced it, and we want to help other couples that
might be experiencing it too. Yeah.
So a quick definition of what burnout is.
Burnout is basically the physical and emotional and
mental exhaustion from prolongedstress.
It often happens with work, but it doesn't have to be just
around work. It can be life.
(02:12):
And it kind of is a time where you feel pretty empty,
overwhelmed, depleted, connected.
You can find yourself feeling numb and it spills into other
areas of life. So if it does start at work, it
often really impacts, it almost always would really impact your
family life as well. And if it's starting just from,
you know, everything going on inyour life socially and outside
(02:35):
of work, it'll probably impact your work situation as well.
So it's that overwhelmed feelingphysically, emotionally and
mentally. Signs of burnout that you might
find is constant fatigue. So you're always tired even
after you've slept. Irritability and numbness in
your relationships and how you're interacting with your
family. I'm going to get Blair to share
in a little bit how it played out for him when he went through
(02:56):
burnout. Emotional disconnection from the
people that you're closest to aswell.
Just not being able to connect and just feeling that numbness
relationally there. You have physical symptoms too,
sometimes headaches, exhaustion again, sometimes gut issues and
insomnia are really struggling to sleep.
You can feel anxious so your chest might be tight.
Feeling invisible or unappreciated or just having
(03:18):
this sense of something is not quite working or not quite
fulfilling. And loss of motivation and joy,
just not being able to see the joy in things, regardless of how
connected they are to your stress.
So overall loss of motivation and joy.
And when you went through it andyou went through burnout in 2020
right as COVID hit, do you want to explain a little bit about
(03:40):
how it felt for you when you started experiencing it?
Yeah. And it was it in the moment,
like straight away I was, I was just so confused of what was
happening, right. So as we've mentioned before, I
was in pastoral care, I was in pastoral ministry back in the
day. And you know, I, I've had a bit
of a colourful background. And with, with that came like I
was able to relate to people of many different levels.
(04:03):
The, the one area where I reallystruggled to relate to people
with was mental health. I just didn't understand it.
I was just like, you know, just people would share about anxiety
and, and I've experienced it before, but just not that
crippling feeling before. And so I was always confused by
people, you know, what they weresharing with me and stuff until
the burnout happened. So reflecting back on it, I
(04:26):
could see the signs reflecting back on it.
But during it, when it was building up, I, I didn't see
those signs. I'd had no idea what was
happening, but it was at a pointwhere so things were just
really, really busy. Some some pretty intense stuff
was going on at the same time. And then COVID hit and our roles
kind of not became a lot of our programmes became redundant.
(04:49):
Well. It all pivoted very quickly.
Yeah, yeah, I did. And and so like it was like,
well, I'm doing all of these things, but now I'm only doing
this one little thing because ofCOVID.
And like everything slowed way, way down.
And it wasn't long after that slowing down.
It's like everything caught up and just hit me.
So I was, I think it was about two weeks.
(05:10):
I just, and it was just so random.
I was on the couch for literallyabout two weeks and just could
not move. I was just like a physically I
could not move. I was just crippled with anxiety
and fear of I don't know what. And that was that was the
physical experience like this isinability to move.
But then it was this also mentalinability to process anything.
(05:31):
Like I was just confused. I, you know, I couldn't put
thoughts together. I was just so numb in my head.
And it was such a horrific time for me because we just had our
daughter too, like she was only six months, four months old or
something like that. And like I've had, you know,
this, this precious newborn and,and COVID, even though lockdowns
(05:53):
are really, really hard, could have been an amazing opportunity
for me to connect with the, you know, the kids because I was
more present. I was around, I wasn't going
away for work and stuff like I was at home.
I just, I just so disconnected from everything.
So it was a big physical, crippling feeling and a big
mental crippling feeling. I remember in the lead up to
(06:14):
your burnout, there were things that he said that now you can
look back and see red flags or whatever, but I remember talking
about them along the way, probably the last six months.
And then I think, like, overwhelm, dissatisfaction, just
numbness, irritability, that kind of thing were coming out,
especially in work. Yeah.
And it's funny because I just feel like we pushed through
(06:34):
through people just push throughthose things.
We're like, Yep, that's just normal.
Instead of it being, and we've gotten better at this now
because of what you've gone through, you've been better at
identifying, oh, hang on, this is not going in a good direction
and putting things in place. Like even this morning we're
having a conversation about putting things in place before
it gets too overwhelming becausewe can feel that niggling
brewing thing. But it's funny to look back and
(06:56):
be like, oh, we were having those conversations.
We did, we were aware of all thelittle things.
I don't think what I think what we weren't aware of was how it
was weighing all together and itfor you, it was a very sudden
like bang burnout, like physicalburnout.
And it was obviously brewing from all of the stuff that
happened like you've just described.
For some people, I think it might be a slow brew, like just
(07:17):
like over time you just find yourself more and more
disconnected. That's definitely what I think
I've experienced when you've gone through it is more of like
a overall numb, irritable vibe, disconnected vibe, and it slowly
develops. But for you, it just was like
real quick, instant, yeah. So it's again, different for
everybody. But those kinds of things where
there's, it's not even easy to explain what's going on.
(07:39):
It's just that there's somethinggoing on.
Yeah. And, and again, because we've
gone through it like, so we werehaving conversations today about
our jobs. And, and so for me, I'm like,
well, you know, I, I can just see those patterns starting
again. And it's just stress, man.
It's just busyness. It's all those things sort of
built up together. And when I start to identify now
(08:00):
it's like it's, it's, it's similarities for the
conversations we're having. I just can't process.
I just can't think through this thing.
And then it's like, well, I can't put things in place to
actually help me do what I know is going to help me.
Yeah. It's like physical exercise.
Like I want to enjoy physical exercise, but because I've got
(08:20):
so many things on my mind and I'm so like busy and stressed,
it's like it's another task. And so navigating through that
can be quite tough as well. And and again, back back then in
2000, like we took 2020, we justdidn't know.
Yeah, we didn't, we didn't know that sort of stuff.
Like we we, you did just push through it, you know, and, and
(08:43):
until you couldn't anymore. It makes me think of there are
mornings where I don't eat breakfast and I need to and
honestly, if it gets past 11, which right now I'm feeling it,
if it gets past 11, I know I need to eat, especially because
I've got medication I need to take.
I cannot decide what to eat. It's like the, it's like the
further into the Tay that I get without eating, the less I can
(09:04):
decide what to eat. So I put it off and then it just
becomes a snowball, which is obviously way minor, but I don't
know if it's blood sugar or what, but it's interesting.
It's the same sort of thing. It's like, I know there's stuff
I need to do, but the further into this burnout or approaching
burnout that I get, the less I can do those things.
The less I can think clearly, the less I can process and put
things in place. So there's a few reasons why
(09:27):
burnout is hard to identify. One, if you haven't gone through
it, that's going to be 1 overarching reason why it might
be hard to identify. You don't know what it is and
you don't know how to expect it.Like I said, I think we're
better at it now, but there's, there's a high functioning
element to it as well for some people.
Again, going to be different foreverybody.
High functioning burnout where you're still doing everything so
you're not crumbling like everything.
(09:49):
You're still doing everything, but inside you've got this
numbness brewing or you're stilllooking capable on the outside,
but inside you're running on fumes.
You're very empty. It's coming from a very empty,
dry place, so it can be hard to identify because you're still
doing everything that you need to do.
Yeah. And I think you just said before
as well, it looks different for different people.
(10:09):
Like I've heard of other people that have been in similar
situations and their burnout looks very different.
Like they didn't have, I literally couldn't work.
I had to finish my job. We and I tried other jobs and it
was COVID so I was hard to get another job in the 1st place.
But we ended up moving out of the city, like out of Melbourne
to rural because I just was not coping.
(10:29):
Like I just was so struggling with why am I struggling so
much, you know? And then I hear from other
people that have gone through burnout, it's like, no, I just
had to cut back. I just had to slow down.
I couldn't, I couldn't not just slow down.
I had to remove myself. I was very intense.
So And so just hearing what you're saying there too, it's
really important to understand of like, you know, what my
(10:51):
experience was. That's not burnout, if that
makes sense. Like it's not that it's not what
it is. It was how my experience of it.
But that's not what burnout is. There is that slow burn.
There is that stuff where you just trying to slug it through
internally. It's it's really, yeah, you're
really struggling. I would say, though, that your
burnout was burnt out, like you were burnt out, I think for
(11:14):
months before you were burning out.
So it depends on as well where you get to the point.
And definitely prevention is better than treatment.
So if you can see those signs, which is one of the reasons
we're doing this episode before you get there, it's way better
because you can put things in place.
So there's this other thing thatit really frustrates me and it's
(11:34):
something that we've wrestled with a lot and I wrestle with a
lot and I don't know what to do about it.
But our culture has a burnout culture because our culture is
so busy, hustle, stress, full lives, layering things.
So you're not just going on a walk, you're going to walk with
a podcast. You're not just working at home
on one task, you're working at home on multiple tasks.
(11:56):
There's just all these things that our culture just seems to
be continuing to pile on. And it is burnout culture, in my
opinion. It's it's just a culture of,
yeah, it's good to be stressed. You're stressed, you're busy.
There's almost like a pride in I'm so busy.
I'm so busy. And some people that are attuned
to mental health would probably be like, oh, just be careful.
But some people the reaction when you're busy is like, oh,
(12:19):
good for you, good job. Or like you're working so hard,
good job. And that's great.
I understand where that comes from and I fall into it.
But there is this culture of burnout where I'm being, I'm
slammed, I'm busy, is kind of rewarded in our world.
And so overwhelm has actually been normalised professionally
but also socially. If you think about social media,
that is the definition of overwhelm.
(12:40):
It's overwhelm of social stuff and it's fake as well.
It's not sustainable, it's not real.
And I feel like that's the same with professional stuff.
We're just overwhelmed and busy.It's not actually always real
productivity. It's actually a lot of the time
when you're functioning out of that, it's not as productive as
it would be if if we weren't so rushed.
So that's another reason I thinkit goes misunderstood or not
(13:02):
identified because we're in a culture where those things are
rewarded. And I think the balance is
something that's also just not for a lot of people at the
forefront of their minds. And I think that's me now.
I think the balance between worklife is something that's really
Askew. Like so if I think about it
logically, you know, a typical work day, 7.6 hours a day, five
(13:24):
days a week, I'm gonna be spending more hours a day on
work. And then I am with family or
hobbies or whatever. Like, you know that where's the
filling up of my energy and my, you know, rest and all that sort
of stuff and my health. And like you're saying, you
know, we're always busy. So I was like, all right, cool.
Well, you know, 7.6 hours is usually work.
(13:46):
Then you've got all the things on top of that in regards to
kids. Then you've got all the stuff on
top of that in regards to house maintenance and care and all
that sort of stuff. It's like, well, actually
majority of our time is full. So this is where that balance
really comes in place. Now, you might not get a balance
of time back like time spent doing time spent resting or, you
know, relaxation or you know, whatever else.
(14:08):
But it's like, but we're doing that at all.
You know, that's a big question because I don't think we need to
have it needs to be time for time, just needs to be impactful
and and relevant and effective and effective.
Yeah. So another couple reasons just
quickly why it might be hard to identify burnout before it
happens is caretaker mindset. So you feel responsible for
everything. If I stop, everything falls
(14:29):
apart. And so it's not there's no
alternative I think in when you've got that mindset, it's I
can't, I can't stop and and I shouldn't be stopping the
responsibilities there for me tobe doing this.
And so it leads to things like self neglect and a quiet like
slow burn collapse like we've spoken about.
So yeah, feeling like you can't not do those things I think is a
(14:51):
massive drop. Yeah, absolutely.
If I stop, it's all gonna fall apart.
Like I can't stop. I can't slow down.
I can't, you know, let go. I can't give this to someone
else. And that was a big learning
process. I think through that burnout
period is like, actually, no, I can't.
It's like, cool, it might slow something down, but doesn't mean
it can get picked up. It won't get picked up again
later. So being OK with the slowing
(15:12):
down of things rather than the ramping up of stuff or
maintaining it like a fast pace,you know, like of of working and
so forth. That was a big internal wrestle
was being OK with understanding where I'm up to and I'm not a
failure. I haven't failed was another big
thing I had to try and work through.
Slowing down is not as a sign offailure.
(15:32):
It's a sign of your care so thatyou can continue forward.
Yeah, you know, yeah. Yeah, exactly.
And really close to that is guilt in comparison.
So others have it worse. So I shouldn't feel this bad.
Others are doing more than me, so why would I be overwhelmed?
Guilt from keeping you from talking about feeling
overwhelmed or feeling like putting things in place.
Kind of like, you know, I if I slow down, someone else has to
(15:56):
pick it up. Or if I slow down I'm just
dumping it on all these people and burn out feeling like a
failure instead of just a signal, which I think is really
hard to distinguish between. Yeah, and, and being in the
leadership position, which I have been in for a number of
years now, it's that's the otherlab layer as well as like, I
don't want to like fail them. So it's not just to fail a task.
It's like I don't want to, you know, my, my role is to make
(16:18):
sure that they can do their role.
I can't give anything else off if they're struggling or, you
know, I want to make sure that they know I'm the leader I need
to be taking this and and stuff like that.
So there's a whole level of guilt and pressure I guess we
put on ourselves. Yeah.
Well, why don't you share your experience of that time too?
Because you had burnout after myburnout, and that was really
(16:38):
tied up to my burnout. So why don't you share your
experience? Yeah, I think, well, when it
happened, it was just survival mode.
So it's like we just got to get through this.
There definitely were. So there was immediate time
where where you're on the couch.Then there was kind of the
recovery, which took a few years, but the first six months
were probably the hardest part of recovery.
And also it was in COVID, so whoknows what it would have been
(17:00):
like outside of that. But there was definitely times
in that where I was just like there was a lot that I had to do
and manage. So you did.
So you did my job. I couldn't do my job.
You stepped in and did my job. Yeah.
Plus look after the kids. Plus like, dinners, everything.
Like everything. You did everything.
You didn't just do more. You did everything.
I did nothing in that time, yeah.
(17:23):
And it was definitely not resentment.
Then there was times where I wasstruggling with having to do
that because there's no option. But that's part of relationship,
That's part of marriage. That's what you commit to is
you. You're there in sickness and in
health. And it's not only if the other
person's coming to the table standing.
I was like, you're there to makethe family function.
So I was really aware of that. But yeah, coming out of that
(17:46):
would, there was a delayed burnout for me because I rode
that wave and came through it. And then there was the I hadn't
worked through how overwhelming that was, I think.
And there was emotional stuff there too, really triggered,
like whenever you feel low. I'm much better now.
But for a little while, if you started to feel low or you had
an off day, it was really like stressful for me because I was
(18:07):
like, oh, here we go again, thiswill happen again.
Do you think that during my burnout and you were doing all
those things, do you feel that you were, like, pretending to
yourself that it was OK? You know, you're trying to
convince yourself that you're doing OK.
It's like, well, I've got to hold this together because if I
don't, it's all fall apart. I don't know if I was pretending
I was OK. It wasn't until the same
probably as you when when Covad hit and everything slowed down
(18:30):
as when you realised. So probably wasn't till I had to
take my foot off or I could takemy foot off the accelerator, but
that I realised how overwhelmingit had been.
So I think I was okay. The other thing that was kind of
horrible was we just didn't have, because of Covad, we
didn't have access to the same supports that we would have had
in a normal year with family andthat kind of thing.
Even though we did and we did figure out ways to get around
(18:52):
the rules. We were in Melbourne, which was
a horrible lockdown. I think probably the part that
was the hardest for me was your,your change, your very, very
sudden change in how you reactedto the kids.
I was. And that's something that we've
worked through for years and it's so different now.
But yeah, it's it. I think when you're navigating
it as a partner, you need to be able to navigate it with grace
(19:14):
because it could look like, you know, I was already stay at home
mom mom at that stage. So you not being able to get off
the couch and not working and then me doing everything could
look like even more. He's just just like not you were
never disconnected. But even more, I'm responsible
for everything. Well, I was disconnected, like I
couldn't connect. No, before that, I mean, I guess
(19:34):
in like you were, you were connected and involved dad
before that. So it wasn't like even more I
have to do stuff. But it could look like from
surface level, he's being lazy and I have to do it all or he's
he's tired and upset and I have to do it all now, which it
didn't, thankfully I didn't havethat.
I, it was like sudden. So it's very clear that you were
something was just not right. But I think as a partner
(19:56):
navigating that, it's really important to be curious and open
to it because otherwise you might find yourself in that
pattern where you are just resenting and like, yeah, it's
OK for you to collapse in a heap.
But now I'm left picking up these pieces.
And, and having that attitude isnot going to be helpful for
anybody, for yourself or for your partner that's going
through it. Is your like our aware, our full
(20:16):
awareness of your burnout didn'thappen for like 2 years later or
something? It wasn't.
It was actually quite a while later that you started being
maybe. Do you think it was maybe you're
starting to be OK or giving yourself permission to be burnt
out or you started to become more aware of it.
What did that look like for you?I think.
There's probably a few things because I was working by that
stage as well, so probably trying to keep the same
(20:40):
momentum, but not having worked on the emotional stuff.
And yeah, I don't know. That's a good question.
Mine was very slow, so I don't even, I can't even reflect back
to a time when it was. I just know that I'm and.
I just remember there was at a point though, and you're being
so serious. You're like, there's a lot of
times that you'll process stuff and you kind of like you're not
dancing around it, but you, you just, you're uncertain.
(21:01):
You're like, oh, just strugglingand you're not really sure why.
And, and, and it started getting, and then you just got
to a point of like, I'm burning out like I am, I can't process,
I can't do this. I need help here.
I need you to take this like this more of a plea or a cry for
help. So everything is like, I cannot
do this. And then we had to have the
conversation because I think we're both in that place with my
(21:23):
burnout and your burnout of like, well, no, you need to get
help. Like you can't just sit in that
because especially me being on the couch for two weeks, the big
turning point was when I startedseeing a counsellor of like
making sense of my situation. It wasn't just making sense of
it, it was literally giving me tools to deal with it.
Because up until that point, I'mguessing my way through it and I
have no clue. Then I get more frustrated and
(21:44):
more down and more anxious. Like, is this me forever?
All that sort of stuff. And.
That was the same with you. We got to a point of like, you
need to see someone, you need todo something about it because we
are not equipped with the knowledge of how to actually go
through the situation. Well.
That was a hard time for me because I mean, obviously it was
a hard time for you because you're going to the burnout.
(22:04):
But for me, I'm like, man, I've done this like this is this is,
you know, this was because of myburnout.
This wasn't an external thing. Now that I'm observing, I'm
like, oh man, I wish I could take this from you.
I did this, you know, like not intentionally obviously, but
that was the other part of wrestling with that we had to, I
had to definitely work through as well.
If I caught, well, I can't change that.
(22:27):
You know there's nothing I can change about this, but how can I
support you in this now? Yeah, I don't think you did it.
By the way, I understand what you're saying, but just to
clarify, it wasn't you. For one thing, when you're in
relationships, there's gonna be things that we do to each other
that we're like, oh, yeah, I am at the middle of why that's
overwhelming. But it's also family rhythm.
It's family priorities. It's culture we fell into.
(22:50):
And and it's also the stuff around your burnout that led you
to that, too. So there's it's not as simple as
I didn't know. I understand.
Yeah. These are the things that I was
processing. I understand what you're saying.
Just to clarify that one. All right, so that's this,
again, all different for everybody, but these are some of
the reasons why I feel like burnout is hard to kind of
identify until you're in it. And unfortunately, when you're
(23:12):
in it, it's a lot more hard to navigate it than if you were
able to put things in place slowly along the way beforehand.
So we're going to jump in and we're going to talk about what
to do if we do start to feel these things brewing.
But first, we're going to take alittle break.
Hey guys, we just wanted to takea little break right now and we
just wanted to say don't forget,check out our website.
Honey, we need to chat.com. There's a lot of free resources
(23:35):
on there, mini tools and blog posts to help you go deeper into
the conversations that we're having today in other episodes
as well. So don't miss out on all of
that. There's behind the scenes
updates of us and our story, butalso just solid tools for you
and as a couple and as an individual to work through some
of the things that we're talkingabout.
(23:55):
While you're on our website, go sign up, join our email list.
You'll get a bunch of updates, resources, and just some cool
things to be able to come straight to you.
There's no spam. We're not trying to be spammers.
We're trying to be equippers andequip you with the tools that is
gonna assist you in the things that you're going through.
Absolutely. Awesome.
Back to the episode. So here's some things you can do
(24:16):
if you're starting to feel like you might be going down this
path or you've been identifying that in your partner that
there's just an increasing senseof burnout happening.
This is before you burnt out, what you can do to try and put
things in place to slow down. The first one is to say it out
loud, to actually vocalise it. And I would say for me, when
I've felt like I've been headingdown that path, having the
(24:37):
conversation has been one of themost impactful things.
Just turn it around for me. Just kind of the stuff that sits
in our head, loves to sit there in the dark and fester.
And once you can kind of communicate it out loud,
honestly, it just loses a lot ofits power, which is really
helpful. So the next thing is you're
feeling like you're overwhelmed,you're feeling like you've got
too much on. You might even not know what it
(24:59):
is that's weighing on you. Sometimes I find that really
hard. So for one thing, sitting down
and just taking stock of where you're at is really helpful.
We've got a resource on the website called the Wheel of
Relationships, but it's basically a wheel of life
exercise, which is a really common coaching tool to help
people just look at a visualisation of where their
life is balanced. So they go through a bunch of
(25:20):
categories and then write it to see how they're feeling.
So if you're sitting there like,I don't even know what's feeling
heavy, something like that couldbe helpful for just kind of
getting a bit of clarity there. But the other really important
thing is to sit down and figure out what is something that I can
cut down on or slow down on it. And I think with this whole
culture that we have of this rush, busy burnout culture
(25:41):
that's going on, you can feel guilty or like it's not
appropriate to pull back on things.
And I think that's really unhelpful as families,
especially relationships, couples, it's really unhelpful
to feel like you can't pull backon anything.
But there's this element of justbeing like, OK, we can't keep
going this way. What's the cost if we do keep
going this way for one thing. And two, so many things we do is
(26:04):
not worth the additional pressure when you're already
feeling low like this. So sitting down and cutting
something out or delaying something, cancelling something
or just saying no to something, there are so many things.
I think if we looked at it objectively, there'd be so many
things that we do every single day that we don't need to be
doing or we don't need to be prioritising at that point.
Yeah, and doesn't have to be something big.
(26:25):
You know, if you if you're feeling this stress sort of
building up and there's fogginess of like, well, I don't
know what I'm feeling. What's just start with something
small, like a small thing you can just stop.
Whether I can't give you an examples, but you just, yeah,
think through what's something smaller can give just one thing.
What can I stop? Because then that's just one
less thing on your shoulders andthen you're going to feel that
(26:45):
weight like be removed. And then you can like slowly add
more things to that list and, and help you process that.
But you know, because this can otherwise be quite overwhelming
to do like, well, no, I can't, Ican't give that up some and
this, this, this, this, this, this, this effects.
It was like, well, cool, just doone small thing.
Yeah. And I think as well, a lot of
the time the things we have on our plate feel and sound like
(27:07):
good things. And we've got a phrase in
ministry which is Christian related, which is, is it a good
thing or a God thing? Because a lot of people will
mistake something that's a good thing as something that God
wants them to do. And I think it's a similar
concept here. Where is it a good thing?
It's just a good thing objectively, or is it an
appropriate thing for me to be doing or putting my time into?
(27:28):
And there's a balance between not everything that's a good
thing objectively is going to bea good thing for you right now.
So taking that moment to be like, maybe it's not required of
me that I attend all these different meetings or I'm on
these different, like in these different groups or social
things or whatever is going on. You know, you've got multiple
activities throughout the week. Maybe one of those isn't
necessary or isn't good for me right now.
(27:50):
So just taking that time to assess and think about what it
is you feel your time with and what might not be needed right
now and that you could take a break from or just pull back.
The other thing is prioritising sleep, nutrition and movement,
which is, like we've spoken about, really hard to do when
you're in it, but a game changer, like can be the game
changer for some people's mentalhealth.
(28:11):
This is what changed my burn. Yeah, it did.
It literally was. I couldn't do this.
Like I I really had to rely on Amy, which is again, not a proud
moment of mine, but it just was what reality was.
I mean, it's essentially forced me out the door to go for a 2
minute walk. That's what we started was like
a 2 minute walk just to get outside, get off the couch, get
outside and we went for a walk as a family.
(28:31):
I was literally 2 minutes. I think I was, I was, I, I think
I was numb the whole time. I don't think I said a word.
But getting out in the sunlight,moving was such a huge thing.
And then from there, every day Iwent for at least one if not two
walks a day because I just the, the importance of that was I
just saw it straight away. Yeah, I'll say when I'm feeling,
even just feeling low, generallynot super super, you know, at
(28:55):
dire straits or anything having assessing whether I'm getting
enough water, if I'm getting enough sleep, which is never, if
I'm, if I'm eating well, like there have been times where I've
just been, I just feel like I need to go sit outside on the
grass with my feet in the grass and eat an apple.
And it's like I've just eaten somuch disgusting food for so
long. And especially when you are in
(29:16):
survival mode, it's hard to prioritise.
And it's also a lot of work to think about what's healthy and
that kind of thing. So just if, if you have not
taken stock of where you're going, where you're at with
those things, they are not only an incredible starting point, a
lot of the time they'll be the game changer for where you're at
and turning things around and moving might not be, it's not my
(29:38):
go to. So you can be telling Blair to
go for walks or helping him go for walks was not my go to, but
it was necessary. It sometimes it's just about
that. It's about getting what you need
in there to fuel your body so that you can at least start to
think more clearly about what's going on.
Another option we have here is just in your relationship or
even by yourself if you need to,taking a 5 minute anchor chat
(30:01):
and just taking a check in, assessing what's feeling heavy
for you today. Talking about that with your
partner is really good. We've spoken about this before
where it's like it's hard if you've got these open ended
questions and they have to kind of come up with some big answer,
but just saying what feels heavyfor you today?
For most people, it's easy enough to identify something
that might feel heavy. What has helped you today or
(30:22):
what could help you today is another thing to check in and
what do you need from me tomorrow or what would you need
tomorrow in order to feel better?
Having those little practical, not open ended questions to
check in and see what it is thatcould help and what it might be
that's weighing on you can be really helpful as a couple.
It's really important when you're navigating this with your
(30:44):
partner that you're a team together too, because if one
partner is going through this and they feel like they have to
implement everything and it's a burden to the other person, it's
going to be really tough. And saying no together as a
family to things like when you're figuring out what to cut
back on, I think that's really important.
We couldn't, COVID helped not put that disclaimer out there,
but we couldn't just keep doing what we were doing as a family.
(31:07):
It wasn't a matter of Blair had to step back from what he was
doing. We had to assess what the family
rhythm was. And that includes not just
obligations and jobs and work and social stuff.
That includes like how we live. Like we couldn't just keep
living the way we lived without intentionality, without making
space for movement or without making space for rest and that
kind of thing. So doing that as a family and
(31:31):
practising having, saying no is actually not a bad thing to do.
Like it might feel bad, but it'snot a bad thing to be like, no,
we're not going to. We're not going to put that on
our plate this semester. We're not going to consider
joining this for right now or adding this to how we're we're
living day to day right now because it's not going to be
helpful or healthy for us. And then this is a really cool
one is choosing one burnout buffer each daily.
(31:52):
So find something that gives youlife and that can be walking,
podcast, solo time, journaling, meditation.
Finding one thing that is a burnout buffer that each of you
can have every day is a non negotiable.
Every day you get your 20 minutes to go for your walk.
Every day you get your 20 minutes to do your relaxing
shower with your meditation music.
Whatever it is that's a buffer for you to get some break in
(32:16):
your day. Make that a priority within your
relationship. Again, it can be something
small. So this has been a big thing for
me too. Is like everything feels like a
task. If I want to have solo time, if
I want to go for a walk, if I want to journal, it all feels
like a task. And so the best thing is like
what is achievable and maintainable at the moment?
If it's two minutes outside to take two minutes outside and you
(32:37):
start there, you're building therhythm, you're building the
habit, and you'll grow from thatpoint.
But then, yeah, so don't stress too much about.
Don't let it stress you or overwhelm you of being another
task. This needs to feed you, not
train you. Yeah.
For example, my thing that I love doing and I haven't been
doing it is having a coffee in this front room because I love
the sun in the morning, something about that.
(32:58):
Just we have a coffee every morning.
So instead I could sit here and have my coffee with nice music
and I just haven't been doing that.
So yeah, it doesn't have to be complicated or a big thing, just
something that feeds you and gives you a little boost and the
buffer. So then we're moving into, if
you're already feeling like you're at burnout and it's at
that stage already, the first step again is just to speak it
(33:19):
out. Don't downplay it, don't try and
make it less than it is. It's really important to be
honest with your partner and andor with someone else that you
trust just to be able to verbalise that and even for
yourself. I think a lot of time we don't,
we're not honest with ourselves about what's going on.
So saying it honestly and clearly, even if it's messy, is
really important. And then stripping right back.
(33:42):
So that is cancelling, delaying,ditching non essentials,
figuring out what you need to bedoing and figuring out what you
don't need to do. And that's include that includes
asking for help, figuring out who you have in your life that
can assist with those things. If this was us now who, how can
we get regular help every week from our family around that, you
know, could help us with the kids or could help us with
(34:05):
cleaning if cleaning feels too much, those kinds of things.
And going into maintenance mode,food, sleep, basic connection is
also, I think sometimes really necessary.
And it was for us. Thankfully COVID again, made
that really easy to go into maintenance mode.
We didn't have outside obligations for a while.
We've been talking about eating well, we're getting enough sleep
and that kind of thing. I do feel like there's a lot of
(34:26):
grace there too, where it's likeI things like if the idea of
making dinner is just so much, relieve yourself of that for a
little while. Be like, we're going to get take
out this week, HelloFresh, HelloFresh or something like
that. We're going to find a way that
we aren't cooking or we'll ask for help in that space.
But you don't have to be like, yeah, but if like we've just
said, be healthy. But then if that idea is too
(34:46):
overwhelming, that's not the most important thing.
That's just to help you so you figure out.
Season, like just, you know, it's just a season.
It's just it's maintenance mode for a season.
It's not maintenance mode forever, yeah.
And there are so many things, somany resources available that
should be able to help make thatmore doable.
We really went into survival mode and and our rhythms weren't
(35:07):
great. When we started to bring our
rhythms a bit better, we felt better.
But I think that survival mode was really important for a time.
The next thing is to rebuild tiny rituals.
So choose one restorative habit,which we've kind of spoken
about, which is things like going for a walk or having no
phone at your rest time, saying I see you daily to your partner.
(35:27):
So just identifying with them like I see you, I'm with you,
little touch point, nothing deep, but just being there,
being present, reflecting beforebed about what's going on.
You can do a little quick reflection about what's feeling
heavy, what's feeling good and what would help.
Just having that little touch point, I think when you're
(35:48):
navigating this as a couple, it's very easy for a
relationship to go out the window because it's, again,
survival mode. So having those moments where
you're still able to connect without the pressure of it being
some big connection, I think is a really helpful thing.
Stability, not thriving. We're not aiming for thriving.
Thriving can happen later when you're when you're rested and
you're feeling better. This is about stability and
(36:10):
survival. So finding something that is a
habit that's going to bring you life and that walk was huge for
you. Meditation was huge for you.
And that's something that we're talking about you getting back
into just having that meditativetime to reflect on what's going
on, how your body's feeling and kind of get a little bit more
grounded again. It's really, that was a really
huge habit for you as well. Yeah, no.
(36:30):
Phone I think is a big one for me as well.
When I felt overwhelmed, like phone, it might feel like a
distraction and it might cover alot of stuff, but it also is,
it's a layering thing again. It's busy, it's loud, it's
distracting in a negative way. A lot of.
Time and I leave my phone in my room, Yeah, when, you know, most
of the time, not every time, butI leave it in the room when I'm
feeling overwhelmed or whatever.It's like, you know, in any
message that comes in, it might not be work related or whatever,
(36:53):
but it's just again, that that constant pressure like, yeah,
communication. And under all of these things,
I'm going to say it again at theend, but I'm going to say it now
because it's important. Get help.
Like there are so many resources.
We've got resources that we knowabout right off the bat.
Within 24 hours, you can have support from a counsellor.
And then also, you know, there'slong term support you can get
(37:16):
that that can be and is priceless.
Even just having that person that's qualified and is
listening to you can be a game changer for this.
And it's, it was your game changer.
And it can be a hard feeling to think that you need support more
to prioritise that time when you're already feeling like
you're putting a lot on the family.
But it is so important. It can change the the situation
(37:37):
for you. So just some quick things as
well. If you're supporting a partner
going through burnout, which is what I navigated and then what
you navigated later, there's a few things as well to keep in
mind. Listening without fixing, It's
really hard to not want to fix. It's really hard.
And it's interesting because I did like say, go for a walk.
So that like there's some stuff like that where you might have
(37:57):
to step in as a decider for yourpartner almost.
But being able to listen withoutit having to be like fixing or
correcting or even going to problem solving with them can be
really helpful because otherwiseit just adds to that weighing on
them. The next thing is to be calm and
not be the cure. So not having to fix it like
we've just said, but being the calm.
(38:19):
So what I stepped into was I navigated kids.
Yeah, I navigated the house as as well as I could.
But you were the calm, but you it was also, and that was really
great. It's like you didn't put that
pressure on me of like figuring it out.
I'd get better. But it was you did actually
challenge me of like, yeah, but what are you doing about it?
(38:40):
That was a question. Again, I think it's a very
important question because we can just sit in this space,
right? We can sit in this stress.
We can sit in the busyness and it can really impact us and it
can impact those around us, right?
And we don't want that. And so, yeah, you did have that
chat and vice versa when you were struggling.
So you said you were struggling with Bennett.
I'm like, sweet, we know the drill now.
(39:01):
Like because of through mine. What?
You've got to do something aboutit, though.
Yeah, so being the calm to reduce the things that my ad
overwhelm. So the house, the chaos, the
like I took your job when we first started, probably doesn't
work for everybody, but did for us.
But then the next one is to reflect patterns gently.
So that's sort of what you've just said, reflecting like I
noticed you're not going for your walks and they're really
(39:23):
helpful. So I think you should do that.
Or I noticed you're not, you know, going into the room to do
the meditation that you find really helpful and just kind of
reflecting those things that that your brain might just feel
a bit too starved to make those decisions yourself.
Ask how to help. Ask what feels heavy.
This person might struggle to even know what would help and
which I think probably would have been the case for both of
(39:44):
us when we went through it. But asking what feels heavy that
you could take for them and whatwould make 10 life 10% easier,
That's probably a higher level conversation to have.
But yeah, just seeing what you can take.
Again, to add the calm basically, don't disappear in
their recovery. So don't disappear yourself
while your partner's recovering.And this was hard because it did
(40:05):
feel all consuming. But it's really important to try
and keep your own rhythms and your own well being as well as
you possibly can. At the same time, it's easy to
disappear into the process. So keeping your own rhythms,
your own connections, your own support networks and having that
so that you aren't just disappearing and being sucked
into this, which is then going to result in either both of you
(40:28):
really struggling or like we haddone the track.
I really struggled because I didn't have that in place very
well. So just trying hard other
doesn't feel like the right timeto make sure you've got those
things in place still. And just reassuring them that
they're, that you see them, thatyou love them, that you're there
for them, that they're more thantheir productivity, especially
if it's a burnout from work or that they're more than this
identity of, of, of work. And this, I think when you burn
(40:51):
out, an identity thing happens. So it could be work related.
So like I, I can't do it. I can't do it.
And it's become your identity. So then you're like, who am I?
Or it's your family or whatever it is that's doing that.
There is a lot of identity stuff.
So you being that calm, reassuring, constant that just
reassures them of their value regardless can be really
helpful. And saying it over and over and
(41:13):
over and then care for yourself.Like we've said, name what
you're carrying is really important.
You're carrying a massive thing.Don't minimise your exhaustion
just because your partner also can't pick it up.
I think that's where you call onyour support networks.
And there's times where I calledmy mom and I was like, I need
you to come stay here with the kids because we weren't allowed.
We weren't allowed to go out, stay here with the kids and
(41:34):
we're going to go stay at your house for a weekend because the
kids weren't sleeping either is horrible.
So and I, I remember crying there on the phone because I was
like, I'm so tired, mostly because our daughters was not
sleeping and then everything else.
And so just like being aware of that and naming it for what it
is, it's not something to be minimised because your other
partner is struggling more. So you're still struggling and
(41:56):
do set little micro boundaries like I just need 20 minutes
alone first. Or I mean, I went on walks when
you we started doing individual walks after a time and then I
started prioritising that as well because I needed it.
I needed times where I needed tojust go to the bathroom without
the kids, like chasing me aroundor, you know, be able to just
cook and have you. Put your headphones in when
you'd cook. She's like, this is Myspace.
(42:18):
Exactly, and like worst case youcould just put a movie on with
the kids if it was too overwhelming for you.
But I needed those things as well.
And let someone else hold you. So lean on those people.
It's so hard to ask for help. It's really, really hard.
I hate it. But you would do it for other
people. They, they would want that too.
The people that love you would want to be able to do that for
you as well. And there's a little truth that
(42:39):
I've got here, which is I can love them deeply without losing
myself. So I can love them in their
thing deeply and support them through this without it dragging
me down as well. I think that's an important
thing to remember. So there's just some of the
things we're going to underpin it again one more time with and
get help because there's so manyresources that can help you.
People are qualified in this. Working through people that have
(43:01):
gone through burnout, working through people navigating mental
health and having that resource there is a game changer.
In Australia, you can go get a mental health care plan from
your GP. We explained this to our GPS.
That's how we got our mental health care plans and that
heavily discounts. Yeah, I did the the support that
you end up getting. Yeah, I got my own free because
(43:21):
it was through our work. You still got discounted though.
And just to just to say too likewe are still getting help like
we did last year. We did that trip to New Zealand
for some specific support for us.
So it's it's we're constantly doing this and you're even doing
this now yourself with the coaching course, like you're
working with women in this spacetoo, of helping identify stuff,
(43:43):
you know, because a lot of the the reason, the support you get,
like you do know, you you can look after yourself majority of
the time, but a lot of the timesit's like identifying what it is
that's bringing us down, which is the hard thing.
And that was where we the support, the help that we get
was the understanding of what's going on that the unpacking of
(44:03):
actually, you know, I've just gone through an intense work
period. And then you get that, that,
that professional speaking. It's like, yeah, you did go
through that professional experience, you know, work
experience that was difficult, but you also carrying all these
other things you haven't dealt with is now catching up to you
as well. So it's really helping break
those things apart, equipping you with understanding and also
(44:25):
just giving grace, man. Like, I, dude, that was huge for
me. The the understanding of like,
I'm not stupid for feeling what I feel was such a revelation, I
think for me, yeah. Especially if you hadn't quite
understood the mental health space before.
Yeah. Exactly.
All right guys, well we're goingto go into a reality check
corner and this is all related to burnout as well.
(44:47):
Three things that you can do practically in your relationship
right now to check in with thesethings.
We really don't want to just be a podcast that talks and gives
information. We want to be some a podcast
that can encourage and equip youright now if you are up to it.
So if you're keen to implement some of these things, have a
listen. The first one is a reflection
prompt and that is where might you be living in survival mode
(45:10):
and calling it normal? What is your body trying to tell
you that you've been ignoring? What is a long term cost of
pushing through like this? And this is about honesty.
It's not about guilt. Burnout is quiet until it breaks
you. So just this this prompt of
where might you be living in survival mode and calling it
normal. And the following point to that
(45:30):
is have that conversation with your partner.
So here's a little challenge foryou as well, just to implement
with your partner at some stage today or in the next few days
when you remember, have a check in point.
Ask your partner at the end of the day, what felt heavy for you
today and then what felt light and get them to ask you to, to
really straightforward, really easy questions to ask to check
in and see how you're going. Even if you don't feel anywhere
(45:52):
near burnout or you don't feel this little rumbling of
something going on, it's a good check in.
It's a good check in to do with your kids after school is a good
check in to do with yourself. So you're reflecting at the end
of the day. And if you like me, like you,
asking yourself those questions can be hard, you know, so for
me, external tools really help. But you can be that for each
other too. So again, like you just said,
(46:13):
you can ask your partner these questions.
I think that's a really solid thing.
It's like, cool, you guys are about to go to bed or, you know,
you get home from work or whatever and you can ask those
questions. So what felt heavy today?
But like even even practical things of where in your body do
you feel that, you know, and asking questions too.
OK, long term, where's this going to impact us?
(46:34):
Right. So asking I think those
questions is is helpful fine if they're external rather than you
trying to go through this yourself.
Yeah, yeah. A lot of the time I don't even
know what feels heavy till you've asked me.
All right, so then the last one here is a future pace.
And this is basically us projecting something into the
future that gives us a real sense of emotion, feeling what
(46:55):
we noticed around us, and then borrowing that for now.
So basically, I'm going to project this thing.
You can sit here and have your eyes closed if you like, while I
read it. And I just want you to picture
as clearly as you possibly can because we're going to borrow
from that picture to help us now.
So imagine it's a year from now,and what once felt heavy is now
light. You found a healthy balance, one
(47:15):
that supports you instead of draining you.
What does it look like in your everyday life?
Who's around you? How are you acting and reacting?
What has changed? How does your body feel now that
you're living from a place of rhythm, not from burnout?
Now bring that feeling back intotoday.
What's 1 conversation you need to have or one thing you need to
(47:35):
adjust with your partner to start moving in that direction?
All right, guys, thank you so much for joining us in our chat
about burnout. Hopefully some of this has been
practical and helpful. It's been good for us to
reflect. It's been helpful.
I think looking back, because sometimes it's not a fun thing
to dredge up those memories. Yeah.
And again, it's, it's sometimes very hard to admit or be OK with
(47:58):
you where you're at. And so being OK with where
you're at is the first thing. Give yourself permission to feel
what you feel. That's the first part of the
journey and then you can take the next steps from there.
Yeah, exactly. And if this hits home, we'd love
for you to share it with a friend or leave a quick review
and have a look on our website at those resources we mentioned
earlier. There are a few that would that
would really support you in thisplace, but thanks for being with
(48:20):
us and we'll chat to you guys soon.
Thanks guys. Good chat.
Bye bye.
Honey, we need to chat. Hey guys, welcome back to
another episode of. Honey, we need to chat.
Yeah, we do. The podcast where we believe
that when communication dies. Bad things happen.
(00:26):
We didn't even rehearse. Rehearse Welcome This is our
chit chat episode and today we're diving into a heavy topic.
And a relatable topic. And a relatable topic, yes, very
relevant to us. That's something we have
navigated and also referred to on the podcast many times, which
is burnout, navigating burnout, supporting a partner through
burnout, going through burnout yourself.
We're going to touch on a whole bunch of stuff relating to
(00:48):
burnout and practical tips on how you can help prevent and how
you can help navigate those waters if you find yourself
there. So stick around for that.
We've also got a practical and applicable reality check corner
at the end as well, also relating to the topic of
burnout. And while we start, because I
always forget, please like, share, subscribe, any of those
(01:09):
things, just pick one of them because that goes a big way in
in helping us and supporting us reach other people with this
content. Absolutely so.
Please do that now. Please.
Thank you. Thank you.
Bonnie's just making yourself comfortable, everything.
Yeah, she's turned the light on before and.
She turned it off. All right, well, let's dive in.
We're going to have a look through what Burnout is.
We didn't want this episode to be just fluffy and kind of light
(01:30):
because it's not a fluffy light topic and and because we've
lived it, we wanted it to be really practical and actually
helpful. So that's the aim of today, that
it can be real and raw and actually applicable to you.
It's for anyone who's kind of been having this kind of
niggling sensation that something might not be in
balance going on in the background.
Anyone who's experienced burnoutor had a partner that's gone
(01:51):
through it, it can be really different for each person.
But basically this is all because we've been there and
we've experienced it, and we want to help other couples that
might be experiencing it too. Yeah.
So a quick definition of what burnout is.
Burnout is basically the physical and emotional and
mental exhaustion from prolongedstress.
It often happens with work, but it doesn't have to be just
around work. It can be life.
(02:12):
And it kind of is a time where you feel pretty empty,
overwhelmed, depleted, connected.
You can find yourself feeling numb and it spills into other
areas of life. So if it does start at work, it
often really impacts, it almost always would really impact your
family life as well. And if it's starting just from,
you know, everything going on inyour life socially and outside
(02:35):
of work, it'll probably impact your work situation as well.
So it's that overwhelmed feelingphysically, emotionally and
mentally. Signs of burnout that you might
find is constant fatigue. So you're always tired even
after you've slept. Irritability and numbness in
your relationships and how you're interacting with your
family. I'm going to get Blair to share
in a little bit how it played out for him when he went through
(02:56):
burnout. Emotional disconnection from the
people that you're closest to aswell.
Just not being able to connect and just feeling that numbness
relationally there. You have physical symptoms too,
sometimes headaches, exhaustion again, sometimes gut issues and
insomnia are really struggling to sleep.
You can feel anxious so your chest might be tight.
Feeling invisible or unappreciated or just having
(03:18):
this sense of something is not quite working or not quite
fulfilling. And loss of motivation and joy,
just not being able to see the joy in things, regardless of how
connected they are to your stress.
So overall loss of motivation and joy.
And when you went through it andyou went through burnout in 2020
right as COVID hit, do you want to explain a little bit about
(03:40):
how it felt for you when you started experiencing it?
Yeah. And it was it in the moment,
like straight away I was, I was just so confused of what was
happening, right. So as we've mentioned before, I
was in pastoral care, I was in pastoral ministry back in the
day. And you know, I, I've had a bit
of a colourful background. And with, with that came like I
was able to relate to people of many different levels.
(04:03):
The, the one area where I reallystruggled to relate to people
with was mental health. I just didn't understand it.
I was just like, you know, just people would share about anxiety
and, and I've experienced it before, but just not that
crippling feeling before. And so I was always confused by
people, you know, what they weresharing with me and stuff until
the burnout happened. So reflecting back on it, I
(04:26):
could see the signs reflecting back on it.
But during it, when it was building up, I, I didn't see
those signs. I'd had no idea what was
happening, but it was at a pointwhere so things were just
really, really busy. Some some pretty intense stuff
was going on at the same time. And then COVID hit and our roles
kind of not became a lot of our programmes became redundant.
(04:49):
Well. It all pivoted very quickly.
Yeah, yeah, I did. And and so like it was like,
well, I'm doing all of these things, but now I'm only doing
this one little thing because ofCOVID.
And like everything slowed way, way down.
And it wasn't long after that slowing down.
It's like everything caught up and just hit me.
So I was, I think it was about two weeks.
(05:10):
I just, and it was just so random.
I was on the couch for literallyabout two weeks and just could
not move. I was just like a physically I
could not move. I was just crippled with anxiety
and fear of I don't know what. And that was that was the
physical experience like this isinability to move.
But then it was this also mentalinability to process anything.
(05:31):
Like I was just confused. I, you know, I couldn't put
thoughts together. I was just so numb in my head.
And it was such a horrific time for me because we just had our
daughter too, like she was only six months, four months old or
something like that. And like I've had, you know,
this, this precious newborn and,and COVID, even though lockdowns
(05:53):
are really, really hard, could have been an amazing opportunity
for me to connect with the, you know, the kids because I was
more present. I was around, I wasn't going
away for work and stuff like I was at home.
I just, I just so disconnected from everything.
So it was a big physical, crippling feeling and a big
mental crippling feeling. I remember in the lead up to
(06:14):
your burnout, there were things that he said that now you can
look back and see red flags or whatever, but I remember talking
about them along the way, probably the last six months.
And then I think, like, overwhelm, dissatisfaction, just
numbness, irritability, that kind of thing were coming out,
especially in work. Yeah.
And it's funny because I just feel like we pushed through
(06:34):
through people just push throughthose things.
We're like, Yep, that's just normal.
Instead of it being, and we've gotten better at this now
because of what you've gone through, you've been better at
identifying, oh, hang on, this is not going in a good direction
and putting things in place. Like even this morning we're
having a conversation about putting things in place before
it gets too overwhelming becausewe can feel that niggling
brewing thing. But it's funny to look back and
(06:56):
be like, oh, we were having those conversations.
We did, we were aware of all thelittle things.
I don't think what I think what we weren't aware of was how it
was weighing all together and itfor you, it was a very sudden
like bang burnout, like physicalburnout.
And it was obviously brewing from all of the stuff that
happened like you've just described.
For some people, I think it might be a slow brew, like just
(07:17):
like over time you just find yourself more and more
disconnected. That's definitely what I think
I've experienced when you've gone through it is more of like
a overall numb, irritable vibe, disconnected vibe, and it slowly
develops. But for you, it just was like
real quick, instant, yeah. So it's again, different for
everybody. But those kinds of things where
there's, it's not even easy to explain what's going on.
(07:39):
It's just that there's somethinggoing on.
Yeah. And, and again, because we've
gone through it like, so we werehaving conversations today about
our jobs. And, and so for me, I'm like,
well, you know, I, I can just see those patterns starting
again. And it's just stress, man.
It's just busyness. It's all those things sort of
built up together. And when I start to identify now
(08:00):
it's like it's, it's, it's similarities for the
conversations we're having. I just can't process.
I just can't think through this thing.
And then it's like, well, I can't put things in place to
actually help me do what I know is going to help me.
Yeah. It's like physical exercise.
Like I want to enjoy physical exercise, but because I've got
(08:20):
so many things on my mind and I'm so like busy and stressed,
it's like it's another task. And so navigating through that
can be quite tough as well. And and again, back back then in
2000, like we took 2020, we justdidn't know.
Yeah, we didn't, we didn't know that sort of stuff.
Like we we, you did just push through it, you know, and, and
(08:43):
until you couldn't anymore. It makes me think of there are
mornings where I don't eat breakfast and I need to and
honestly, if it gets past 11, which right now I'm feeling it,
if it gets past 11, I know I need to eat, especially because
I've got medication I need to take.
I cannot decide what to eat. It's like the, it's like the
further into the Tay that I get without eating, the less I can
(09:04):
decide what to eat. So I put it off and then it just
becomes a snowball, which is obviously way minor, but I don't
know if it's blood sugar or what, but it's interesting.
It's the same sort of thing. It's like, I know there's stuff
I need to do, but the further into this burnout or approaching
burnout that I get, the less I can do those things.
The less I can think clearly, the less I can process and put
things in place. So there's a few reasons why
(09:27):
burnout is hard to identify. One, if you haven't gone through
it, that's going to be 1 overarching reason why it might
be hard to identify. You don't know what it is and
you don't know how to expect it.Like I said, I think we're
better at it now, but there's, there's a high functioning
element to it as well for some people.
Again, going to be different foreverybody.
High functioning burnout where you're still doing everything so
you're not crumbling like everything.
(09:49):
You're still doing everything, but inside you've got this
numbness brewing or you're stilllooking capable on the outside,
but inside you're running on fumes.
You're very empty. It's coming from a very empty,
dry place, so it can be hard to identify because you're still
doing everything that you need to do.
Yeah. And I think you just said before
as well, it looks different for different people.
(10:09):
Like I've heard of other people that have been in similar
situations and their burnout looks very different.
Like they didn't have, I literally couldn't work.
I had to finish my job. We and I tried other jobs and it
was COVID so I was hard to get another job in the 1st place.
But we ended up moving out of the city, like out of Melbourne
to rural because I just was not coping.
(10:29):
Like I just was so struggling with why am I struggling so
much, you know? And then I hear from other
people that have gone through burnout, it's like, no, I just
had to cut back. I just had to slow down.
I couldn't, I couldn't not just slow down.
I had to remove myself. I was very intense.
So And so just hearing what you're saying there too, it's
really important to understand of like, you know, what my
(10:51):
experience was. That's not burnout, if that
makes sense. Like it's not that it's not what
it is. It was how my experience of it.
But that's not what burnout is. There is that slow burn.
There is that stuff where you just trying to slug it through
internally. It's it's really, yeah, you're
really struggling. I would say, though, that your
burnout was burnt out, like you were burnt out, I think for
(11:14):
months before you were burning out.
So it depends on as well where you get to the point.
And definitely prevention is better than treatment.
So if you can see those signs, which is one of the reasons
we're doing this episode before you get there, it's way better
because you can put things in place.
So there's this other thing thatit really frustrates me and it's
(11:34):
something that we've wrestled with a lot and I wrestle with a
lot and I don't know what to do about it.
But our culture has a burnout culture because our culture is
so busy, hustle, stress, full lives, layering things.
So you're not just going on a walk, you're going to walk with
a podcast. You're not just working at home
on one task, you're working at home on multiple tasks.
(11:56):
There's just all these things that our culture just seems to
be continuing to pile on. And it is burnout culture, in my
opinion. It's it's just a culture of,
yeah, it's good to be stressed. You're stressed, you're busy.
There's almost like a pride in I'm so busy.
I'm so busy. And some people that are attuned
to mental health would probably be like, oh, just be careful.
But some people the reaction when you're busy is like, oh,
(12:19):
good for you, good job. Or like you're working so hard,
good job. And that's great.
I understand where that comes from and I fall into it.
But there is this culture of burnout where I'm being, I'm
slammed, I'm busy, is kind of rewarded in our world.
And so overwhelm has actually been normalised professionally
but also socially. If you think about social media,
that is the definition of overwhelm.
(12:40):
It's overwhelm of social stuff and it's fake as well.
It's not sustainable, it's not real.
And I feel like that's the same with professional stuff.
We're just overwhelmed and busy.It's not actually always real
productivity. It's actually a lot of the time
when you're functioning out of that, it's not as productive as
it would be if if we weren't so rushed.
So that's another reason I thinkit goes misunderstood or not
(13:02):
identified because we're in a culture where those things are
rewarded. And I think the balance is
something that's also just not for a lot of people at the
forefront of their minds. And I think that's me now.
I think the balance between worklife is something that's really
Askew. Like so if I think about it
logically, you know, a typical work day, 7.6 hours a day, five
(13:24):
days a week, I'm gonna be spending more hours a day on
work. And then I am with family or
hobbies or whatever. Like, you know that where's the
filling up of my energy and my, you know, rest and all that sort
of stuff and my health. And like you're saying, you
know, we're always busy. So I was like, all right, cool.
Well, you know, 7.6 hours is usually work.
(13:46):
Then you've got all the things on top of that in regards to
kids. Then you've got all the stuff on
top of that in regards to house maintenance and care and all
that sort of stuff. It's like, well, actually
majority of our time is full. So this is where that balance
really comes in place. Now, you might not get a balance
of time back like time spent doing time spent resting or, you
know, relaxation or you know, whatever else.
(14:08):
But it's like, but we're doing that at all.
You know, that's a big question because I don't think we need to
have it needs to be time for time, just needs to be impactful
and and relevant and effective and effective.
Yeah. So another couple reasons just
quickly why it might be hard to identify burnout before it
happens is caretaker mindset. So you feel responsible for
everything. If I stop, everything falls
(14:29):
apart. And so it's not there's no
alternative I think in when you've got that mindset, it's I
can't, I can't stop and and I shouldn't be stopping the
responsibilities there for me tobe doing this.
And so it leads to things like self neglect and a quiet like
slow burn collapse like we've spoken about.
So yeah, feeling like you can't not do those things I think is a
(14:51):
massive drop. Yeah, absolutely.
If I stop, it's all gonna fall apart.
Like I can't stop. I can't slow down.
I can't, you know, let go. I can't give this to someone
else. And that was a big learning
process. I think through that burnout
period is like, actually, no, I can't.
It's like, cool, it might slow something down, but doesn't mean
it can get picked up. It won't get picked up again
later. So being OK with the slowing
(15:12):
down of things rather than the ramping up of stuff or
maintaining it like a fast pace,you know, like of of working and
so forth. That was a big internal wrestle
was being OK with understanding where I'm up to and I'm not a
failure. I haven't failed was another big
thing I had to try and work through.
Slowing down is not as a sign offailure.
(15:32):
It's a sign of your care so thatyou can continue forward.
Yeah, you know, yeah. Yeah, exactly.
And really close to that is guilt in comparison.
So others have it worse. So I shouldn't feel this bad.
Others are doing more than me, so why would I be overwhelmed?
Guilt from keeping you from talking about feeling
overwhelmed or feeling like putting things in place.
Kind of like, you know, I if I slow down, someone else has to
(15:56):
pick it up. Or if I slow down I'm just
dumping it on all these people and burn out feeling like a
failure instead of just a signal, which I think is really
hard to distinguish between. Yeah, and, and being in the
leadership position, which I have been in for a number of
years now, it's that's the otherlab layer as well as like, I
don't want to like fail them. So it's not just to fail a task.
It's like I don't want to, you know, my, my role is to make
(16:18):
sure that they can do their role.
I can't give anything else off if they're struggling or, you
know, I want to make sure that they know I'm the leader I need
to be taking this and and stuff like that.
So there's a whole level of guilt and pressure I guess we
put on ourselves. Yeah.
Well, why don't you share your experience of that time too?
Because you had burnout after myburnout, and that was really
(16:38):
tied up to my burnout. So why don't you share your
experience? Yeah, I think, well, when it
happened, it was just survival mode.
So it's like we just got to get through this.
There definitely were. So there was immediate time
where where you're on the couch.Then there was kind of the
recovery, which took a few years, but the first six months
were probably the hardest part of recovery.
And also it was in COVID, so whoknows what it would have been
(17:00):
like outside of that. But there was definitely times
in that where I was just like there was a lot that I had to do
and manage. So you did.
So you did my job. I couldn't do my job.
You stepped in and did my job. Yeah.
Plus look after the kids. Plus like, dinners, everything.
Like everything. You did everything.
You didn't just do more. You did everything.
I did nothing in that time, yeah.
(17:23):
And it was definitely not resentment.
Then there was times where I wasstruggling with having to do
that because there's no option. But that's part of relationship,
That's part of marriage. That's what you commit to is
you. You're there in sickness and in
health. And it's not only if the other
person's coming to the table standing.
I was like, you're there to makethe family function.
So I was really aware of that. But yeah, coming out of that
(17:46):
would, there was a delayed burnout for me because I rode
that wave and came through it. And then there was the I hadn't
worked through how overwhelming that was, I think.
And there was emotional stuff there too, really triggered,
like whenever you feel low. I'm much better now.
But for a little while, if you started to feel low or you had
an off day, it was really like stressful for me because I was
(18:07):
like, oh, here we go again, thiswill happen again.
Do you think that during my burnout and you were doing all
those things, do you feel that you were, like, pretending to
yourself that it was OK? You know, you're trying to
convince yourself that you're doing OK.
It's like, well, I've got to hold this together because if I
don't, it's all fall apart. I don't know if I was pretending
I was OK. It wasn't until the same
probably as you when when Covad hit and everything slowed down
(18:30):
as when you realised. So probably wasn't till I had to
take my foot off or I could takemy foot off the accelerator, but
that I realised how overwhelmingit had been.
So I think I was okay. The other thing that was kind of
horrible was we just didn't have, because of Covad, we
didn't have access to the same supports that we would have had
in a normal year with family andthat kind of thing.
Even though we did and we did figure out ways to get around
(18:52):
the rules. We were in Melbourne, which was
a horrible lockdown. I think probably the part that
was the hardest for me was your,your change, your very, very
sudden change in how you reactedto the kids.
I was. And that's something that we've
worked through for years and it's so different now.
But yeah, it's it. I think when you're navigating
it as a partner, you need to be able to navigate it with grace
(19:14):
because it could look like, you know, I was already stay at home
mom mom at that stage. So you not being able to get off
the couch and not working and then me doing everything could
look like even more. He's just just like not you were
never disconnected. But even more, I'm responsible
for everything. Well, I was disconnected, like I
couldn't connect. No, before that, I mean, I guess
(19:34):
in like you were, you were connected and involved dad
before that. So it wasn't like even more I
have to do stuff. But it could look like from
surface level, he's being lazy and I have to do it all or he's
he's tired and upset and I have to do it all now, which it
didn't, thankfully I didn't havethat.
I, it was like sudden. So it's very clear that you were
something was just not right. But I think as a partner
(19:56):
navigating that, it's really important to be curious and open
to it because otherwise you might find yourself in that
pattern where you are just resenting and like, yeah, it's
OK for you to collapse in a heap.
But now I'm left picking up these pieces.
And, and having that attitude isnot going to be helpful for
anybody, for yourself or for your partner that's going
through it. Is your like our aware, our full
(20:16):
awareness of your burnout didn'thappen for like 2 years later or
something? It wasn't.
It was actually quite a while later that you started being
maybe. Do you think it was maybe you're
starting to be OK or giving yourself permission to be burnt
out or you started to become more aware of it.
What did that look like for you?I think.
There's probably a few things because I was working by that
stage as well, so probably trying to keep the same
(20:40):
momentum, but not having worked on the emotional stuff.
And yeah, I don't know. That's a good question.
Mine was very slow, so I don't even, I can't even reflect back
to a time when it was. I just know that I'm and.
I just remember there was at a point though, and you're being
so serious. You're like, there's a lot of
times that you'll process stuff and you kind of like you're not
dancing around it, but you, you just, you're uncertain.
(21:01):
You're like, oh, just strugglingand you're not really sure why.
And, and, and it started getting, and then you just got
to a point of like, I'm burning out like I am, I can't process,
I can't do this. I need help here.
I need you to take this like this more of a plea or a cry for
help. So everything is like, I cannot
do this. And then we had to have the
conversation because I think we're both in that place with my
(21:23):
burnout and your burnout of like, well, no, you need to get
help. Like you can't just sit in that
because especially me being on the couch for two weeks, the big
turning point was when I startedseeing a counsellor of like
making sense of my situation. It wasn't just making sense of
it, it was literally giving me tools to deal with it.
Because up until that point, I'mguessing my way through it and I
have no clue. Then I get more frustrated and
(21:44):
more down and more anxious. Like, is this me forever?
All that sort of stuff. And.
That was the same with you. We got to a point of like, you
need to see someone, you need todo something about it because we
are not equipped with the knowledge of how to actually go
through the situation. Well.
That was a hard time for me because I mean, obviously it was
a hard time for you because you're going to the burnout.
(22:04):
But for me, I'm like, man, I've done this like this is this is,
you know, this was because of myburnout.
This wasn't an external thing. Now that I'm observing, I'm
like, oh man, I wish I could take this from you.
I did this, you know, like not intentionally obviously, but
that was the other part of wrestling with that we had to, I
had to definitely work through as well.
If I caught, well, I can't change that.
(22:27):
You know there's nothing I can change about this, but how can I
support you in this now? Yeah, I don't think you did it.
By the way, I understand what you're saying, but just to
clarify, it wasn't you. For one thing, when you're in
relationships, there's gonna be things that we do to each other
that we're like, oh, yeah, I am at the middle of why that's
overwhelming. But it's also family rhythm.
It's family priorities. It's culture we fell into.
(22:50):
And and it's also the stuff around your burnout that led you
to that, too. So there's it's not as simple as
I didn't know. I understand.
Yeah. These are the things that I was
processing. I understand what you're saying.
Just to clarify that one. All right, so that's this,
again, all different for everybody, but these are some of
the reasons why I feel like burnout is hard to kind of
identify until you're in it. And unfortunately, when you're
(23:12):
in it, it's a lot more hard to navigate it than if you were
able to put things in place slowly along the way beforehand.
So we're going to jump in and we're going to talk about what
to do if we do start to feel these things brewing.
But first, we're going to take alittle break.
Hey guys, we just wanted to takea little break right now and we
just wanted to say don't forget,check out our website.
Honey, we need to chat.com. There's a lot of free resources
(23:35):
on there, mini tools and blog posts to help you go deeper into
the conversations that we're having today in other episodes
as well. So don't miss out on all of
that. There's behind the scenes
updates of us and our story, butalso just solid tools for you
and as a couple and as an individual to work through some
of the things that we're talkingabout.
(23:55):
While you're on our website, go sign up, join our email list.
You'll get a bunch of updates, resources, and just some cool
things to be able to come straight to you.
There's no spam. We're not trying to be spammers.
We're trying to be equippers andequip you with the tools that is
gonna assist you in the things that you're going through.
Absolutely. Awesome.
Back to the episode. So here's some things you can do
(24:16):
if you're starting to feel like you might be going down this
path or you've been identifying that in your partner that
there's just an increasing senseof burnout happening.
This is before you burnt out, what you can do to try and put
things in place to slow down. The first one is to say it out
loud, to actually vocalise it. And I would say for me, when
I've felt like I've been headingdown that path, having the
(24:37):
conversation has been one of themost impactful things.
Just turn it around for me. Just kind of the stuff that sits
in our head, loves to sit there in the dark and fester.
And once you can kind of communicate it out loud,
honestly, it just loses a lot ofits power, which is really
helpful. So the next thing is you're
feeling like you're overwhelmed,you're feeling like you've got
too much on. You might even not know what it
(24:59):
is that's weighing on you. Sometimes I find that really
hard. So for one thing, sitting down
and just taking stock of where you're at is really helpful.
We've got a resource on the website called the Wheel of
Relationships, but it's basically a wheel of life
exercise, which is a really common coaching tool to help
people just look at a visualisation of where their
life is balanced. So they go through a bunch of
(25:20):
categories and then write it to see how they're feeling.
So if you're sitting there like,I don't even know what's feeling
heavy, something like that couldbe helpful for just kind of
getting a bit of clarity there. But the other really important
thing is to sit down and figure out what is something that I can
cut down on or slow down on it. And I think with this whole
culture that we have of this rush, busy burnout culture
(25:41):
that's going on, you can feel guilty or like it's not
appropriate to pull back on things.
And I think that's really unhelpful as families,
especially relationships, couples, it's really unhelpful
to feel like you can't pull backon anything.
But there's this element of justbeing like, OK, we can't keep
going this way. What's the cost if we do keep
going this way for one thing. And two, so many things we do is
(26:04):
not worth the additional pressure when you're already
feeling low like this. So sitting down and cutting
something out or delaying something, cancelling something
or just saying no to something, there are so many things.
I think if we looked at it objectively, there'd be so many
things that we do every single day that we don't need to be
doing or we don't need to be prioritising at that point.
Yeah, and doesn't have to be something big.
(26:25):
You know, if you if you're feeling this stress sort of
building up and there's fogginess of like, well, I don't
know what I'm feeling. What's just start with something
small, like a small thing you can just stop.
Whether I can't give you an examples, but you just, yeah,
think through what's something smaller can give just one thing.
What can I stop? Because then that's just one
less thing on your shoulders andthen you're going to feel that
(26:45):
weight like be removed. And then you can like slowly add
more things to that list and, and help you process that.
But you know, because this can otherwise be quite overwhelming
to do like, well, no, I can't, Ican't give that up some and
this, this, this, this, this, this, this effects.
It was like, well, cool, just doone small thing.
Yeah. And I think as well, a lot of
the time the things we have on our plate feel and sound like
(27:07):
good things. And we've got a phrase in
ministry which is Christian related, which is, is it a good
thing or a God thing? Because a lot of people will
mistake something that's a good thing as something that God
wants them to do. And I think it's a similar
concept here. Where is it a good thing?
It's just a good thing objectively, or is it an
appropriate thing for me to be doing or putting my time into?
(27:28):
And there's a balance between not everything that's a good
thing objectively is going to bea good thing for you right now.
So taking that moment to be like, maybe it's not required of
me that I attend all these different meetings or I'm on
these different, like in these different groups or social
things or whatever is going on. You know, you've got multiple
activities throughout the week. Maybe one of those isn't
necessary or isn't good for me right now.
(27:50):
So just taking that time to assess and think about what it
is you feel your time with and what might not be needed right
now and that you could take a break from or just pull back.
The other thing is prioritising sleep, nutrition and movement,
which is, like we've spoken about, really hard to do when
you're in it, but a game changer, like can be the game
changer for some people's mentalhealth.
(28:11):
This is what changed my burn. Yeah, it did.
It literally was. I couldn't do this.
Like I I really had to rely on Amy, which is again, not a proud
moment of mine, but it just was what reality was.
I mean, it's essentially forced me out the door to go for a 2
minute walk. That's what we started was like
a 2 minute walk just to get outside, get off the couch, get
outside and we went for a walk as a family.
(28:31):
I was literally 2 minutes. I think I was, I was, I, I think
I was numb the whole time. I don't think I said a word.
But getting out in the sunlight,moving was such a huge thing.
And then from there, every day Iwent for at least one if not two
walks a day because I just the, the importance of that was I
just saw it straight away. Yeah, I'll say when I'm feeling,
even just feeling low, generallynot super super, you know, at
(28:55):
dire straits or anything having assessing whether I'm getting
enough water, if I'm getting enough sleep, which is never, if
I'm, if I'm eating well, like there have been times where I've
just been, I just feel like I need to go sit outside on the
grass with my feet in the grass and eat an apple.
And it's like I've just eaten somuch disgusting food for so
long. And especially when you are in
(29:16):
survival mode, it's hard to prioritise.
And it's also a lot of work to think about what's healthy and
that kind of thing. So just if, if you have not
taken stock of where you're going, where you're at with
those things, they are not only an incredible starting point, a
lot of the time they'll be the game changer for where you're at
and turning things around and moving might not be, it's not my
(29:38):
go to. So you can be telling Blair to
go for walks or helping him go for walks was not my go to, but
it was necessary. It sometimes it's just about
that. It's about getting what you need
in there to fuel your body so that you can at least start to
think more clearly about what's going on.
Another option we have here is just in your relationship or
even by yourself if you need to,taking a 5 minute anchor chat
(30:01):
and just taking a check in, assessing what's feeling heavy
for you today. Talking about that with your
partner is really good. We've spoken about this before
where it's like it's hard if you've got these open ended
questions and they have to kind of come up with some big answer,
but just saying what feels heavyfor you today?
For most people, it's easy enough to identify something
that might feel heavy. What has helped you today or
(30:22):
what could help you today is another thing to check in and
what do you need from me tomorrow or what would you need
tomorrow in order to feel better?
Having those little practical, not open ended questions to
check in and see what it is thatcould help and what it might be
that's weighing on you can be really helpful as a couple.
It's really important when you're navigating this with your
(30:44):
partner that you're a team together too, because if one
partner is going through this and they feel like they have to
implement everything and it's a burden to the other person, it's
going to be really tough. And saying no together as a
family to things like when you're figuring out what to cut
back on, I think that's really important.
We couldn't, COVID helped not put that disclaimer out there,
but we couldn't just keep doing what we were doing as a family.
(31:07):
It wasn't a matter of Blair had to step back from what he was
doing. We had to assess what the family
rhythm was. And that includes not just
obligations and jobs and work and social stuff.
That includes like how we live. Like we couldn't just keep
living the way we lived without intentionality, without making
space for movement or without making space for rest and that
kind of thing. So doing that as a family and
(31:31):
practising having, saying no is actually not a bad thing to do.
Like it might feel bad, but it'snot a bad thing to be like, no,
we're not going to. We're not going to put that on
our plate this semester. We're not going to consider
joining this for right now or adding this to how we're we're
living day to day right now because it's not going to be
helpful or healthy for us. And then this is a really cool
one is choosing one burnout buffer each daily.
(31:52):
So find something that gives youlife and that can be walking,
podcast, solo time, journaling, meditation.
Finding one thing that is a burnout buffer that each of you
can have every day is a non negotiable.
Every day you get your 20 minutes to go for your walk.
Every day you get your 20 minutes to do your relaxing
shower with your meditation music.
Whatever it is that's a buffer for you to get some break in
(32:16):
your day. Make that a priority within your
relationship. Again, it can be something
small. So this has been a big thing for
me too. Is like everything feels like a
task. If I want to have solo time, if
I want to go for a walk, if I want to journal, it all feels
like a task. And so the best thing is like
what is achievable and maintainable at the moment?
If it's two minutes outside to take two minutes outside and you
(32:37):
start there, you're building therhythm, you're building the
habit, and you'll grow from thatpoint.
But then, yeah, so don't stress too much about.
Don't let it stress you or overwhelm you of being another
task. This needs to feed you, not
train you. Yeah.
For example, my thing that I love doing and I haven't been
doing it is having a coffee in this front room because I love
the sun in the morning, something about that.
(32:58):
Just we have a coffee every morning.
So instead I could sit here and have my coffee with nice music
and I just haven't been doing that.
So yeah, it doesn't have to be complicated or a big thing, just
something that feeds you and gives you a little boost and the
buffer. So then we're moving into, if
you're already feeling like you're at burnout and it's at
that stage already, the first step again is just to speak it
(33:19):
out. Don't downplay it, don't try and
make it less than it is. It's really important to be
honest with your partner and andor with someone else that you
trust just to be able to verbalise that and even for
yourself. I think a lot of time we don't,
we're not honest with ourselves about what's going on.
So saying it honestly and clearly, even if it's messy, is
really important. And then stripping right back.
(33:42):
So that is cancelling, delaying,ditching non essentials,
figuring out what you need to bedoing and figuring out what you
don't need to do. And that's include that includes
asking for help, figuring out who you have in your life that
can assist with those things. If this was us now who, how can
we get regular help every week from our family around that, you
know, could help us with the kids or could help us with
(34:05):
cleaning if cleaning feels too much, those kinds of things.
And going into maintenance mode,food, sleep, basic connection is
also, I think sometimes really necessary.
And it was for us. Thankfully COVID again, made
that really easy to go into maintenance mode.
We didn't have outside obligations for a while.
We've been talking about eating well, we're getting enough sleep
and that kind of thing. I do feel like there's a lot of
(34:26):
grace there too, where it's likeI things like if the idea of
making dinner is just so much, relieve yourself of that for a
little while. Be like, we're going to get take
out this week, HelloFresh, HelloFresh or something like
that. We're going to find a way that
we aren't cooking or we'll ask for help in that space.
But you don't have to be like, yeah, but if like we've just
said, be healthy. But then if that idea is too
(34:46):
overwhelming, that's not the most important thing.
That's just to help you so you figure out.
Season, like just, you know, it's just a season.
It's just it's maintenance mode for a season.
It's not maintenance mode forever, yeah.
And there are so many things, somany resources available that
should be able to help make thatmore doable.
We really went into survival mode and and our rhythms weren't
(35:07):
great. When we started to bring our
rhythms a bit better, we felt better.
But I think that survival mode was really important for a time.
The next thing is to rebuild tiny rituals.
So choose one restorative habit,which we've kind of spoken
about, which is things like going for a walk or having no
phone at your rest time, saying I see you daily to your partner.
(35:27):
So just identifying with them like I see you, I'm with you,
little touch point, nothing deep, but just being there,
being present, reflecting beforebed about what's going on.
You can do a little quick reflection about what's feeling
heavy, what's feeling good and what would help.
Just having that little touch point, I think when you're
(35:48):
navigating this as a couple, it's very easy for a
relationship to go out the window because it's, again,
survival mode. So having those moments where
you're still able to connect without the pressure of it being
some big connection, I think is a really helpful thing.
Stability, not thriving. We're not aiming for thriving.
Thriving can happen later when you're when you're rested and
you're feeling better. This is about stability and
(36:10):
survival. So finding something that is a
habit that's going to bring you life and that walk was huge for
you. Meditation was huge for you.
And that's something that we're talking about you getting back
into just having that meditativetime to reflect on what's going
on, how your body's feeling and kind of get a little bit more
grounded again. It's really, that was a really
huge habit for you as well. Yeah, no.
(36:30):
Phone I think is a big one for me as well.
When I felt overwhelmed, like phone, it might feel like a
distraction and it might cover alot of stuff, but it also is,
it's a layering thing again. It's busy, it's loud, it's
distracting in a negative way. A lot of.
Time and I leave my phone in my room, Yeah, when, you know, most
of the time, not every time, butI leave it in the room when I'm
feeling overwhelmed or whatever.It's like, you know, in any
message that comes in, it might not be work related or whatever,
(36:53):
but it's just again, that that constant pressure like, yeah,
communication. And under all of these things,
I'm going to say it again at theend, but I'm going to say it now
because it's important. Get help.
Like there are so many resources.
We've got resources that we knowabout right off the bat.
Within 24 hours, you can have support from a counsellor.
And then also, you know, there'slong term support you can get
(37:16):
that that can be and is priceless.
Even just having that person that's qualified and is
listening to you can be a game changer for this.
And it's, it was your game changer.
And it can be a hard feeling to think that you need support more
to prioritise that time when you're already feeling like
you're putting a lot on the family.
But it is so important. It can change the the situation
(37:37):
for you. So just some quick things as
well. If you're supporting a partner
going through burnout, which is what I navigated and then what
you navigated later, there's a few things as well to keep in
mind. Listening without fixing, It's
really hard to not want to fix. It's really hard.
And it's interesting because I did like say, go for a walk.
So that like there's some stuff like that where you might have
(37:57):
to step in as a decider for yourpartner almost.
But being able to listen withoutit having to be like fixing or
correcting or even going to problem solving with them can be
really helpful because otherwiseit just adds to that weighing on
them. The next thing is to be calm and
not be the cure. So not having to fix it like
we've just said, but being the calm.
(38:19):
So what I stepped into was I navigated kids.
Yeah, I navigated the house as as well as I could.
But you were the calm, but you it was also, and that was really
great. It's like you didn't put that
pressure on me of like figuring it out.
I'd get better. But it was you did actually
challenge me of like, yeah, but what are you doing about it?
(38:40):
That was a question. Again, I think it's a very
important question because we can just sit in this space,
right? We can sit in this stress.
We can sit in the busyness and it can really impact us and it
can impact those around us, right?
And we don't want that. And so, yeah, you did have that
chat and vice versa when you were struggling.
So you said you were struggling with Bennett.
I'm like, sweet, we know the drill now.
(39:01):
Like because of through mine. What?
You've got to do something aboutit, though.
Yeah, so being the calm to reduce the things that my ad
overwhelm. So the house, the chaos, the
like I took your job when we first started, probably doesn't
work for everybody, but did for us.
But then the next one is to reflect patterns gently.
So that's sort of what you've just said, reflecting like I
noticed you're not going for your walks and they're really
(39:23):
helpful. So I think you should do that.
Or I noticed you're not, you know, going into the room to do
the meditation that you find really helpful and just kind of
reflecting those things that that your brain might just feel
a bit too starved to make those decisions yourself.
Ask how to help. Ask what feels heavy.
This person might struggle to even know what would help and
which I think probably would have been the case for both of
(39:44):
us when we went through it. But asking what feels heavy that
you could take for them and whatwould make 10 life 10% easier,
That's probably a higher level conversation to have.
But yeah, just seeing what you can take.
Again, to add the calm basically, don't disappear in
their recovery. So don't disappear yourself
while your partner's recovering.And this was hard because it did
(40:05):
feel all consuming. But it's really important to try
and keep your own rhythms and your own well being as well as
you possibly can. At the same time, it's easy to
disappear into the process. So keeping your own rhythms,
your own connections, your own support networks and having that
so that you aren't just disappearing and being sucked
into this, which is then going to result in either both of you
(40:28):
really struggling or like we haddone the track.
I really struggled because I didn't have that in place very
well. So just trying hard other
doesn't feel like the right timeto make sure you've got those
things in place still. And just reassuring them that
they're, that you see them, thatyou love them, that you're there
for them, that they're more thantheir productivity, especially
if it's a burnout from work or that they're more than this
identity of, of, of work. And this, I think when you burn
(40:51):
out, an identity thing happens. So it could be work related.
So like I, I can't do it. I can't do it.
And it's become your identity. So then you're like, who am I?
Or it's your family or whatever it is that's doing that.
There is a lot of identity stuff.
So you being that calm, reassuring, constant that just
reassures them of their value regardless can be really
helpful. And saying it over and over and
(41:13):
over and then care for yourself.Like we've said, name what
you're carrying is really important.
You're carrying a massive thing.Don't minimise your exhaustion
just because your partner also can't pick it up.
I think that's where you call onyour support networks.
And there's times where I calledmy mom and I was like, I need
you to come stay here with the kids because we weren't allowed.
We weren't allowed to go out, stay here with the kids and
(41:34):
we're going to go stay at your house for a weekend because the
kids weren't sleeping either is horrible.
So and I, I remember crying there on the phone because I was
like, I'm so tired, mostly because our daughters was not
sleeping and then everything else.
And so just like being aware of that and naming it for what it
is, it's not something to be minimised because your other
partner is struggling more. So you're still struggling and
(41:56):
do set little micro boundaries like I just need 20 minutes
alone first. Or I mean, I went on walks when
you we started doing individual walks after a time and then I
started prioritising that as well because I needed it.
I needed times where I needed tojust go to the bathroom without
the kids, like chasing me aroundor, you know, be able to just
cook and have you. Put your headphones in when
you'd cook. She's like, this is Myspace.
(42:18):
Exactly, and like worst case youcould just put a movie on with
the kids if it was too overwhelming for you.
But I needed those things as well.
And let someone else hold you. So lean on those people.
It's so hard to ask for help. It's really, really hard.
I hate it. But you would do it for other
people. They, they would want that too.
The people that love you would want to be able to do that for
you as well. And there's a little truth that
(42:39):
I've got here, which is I can love them deeply without losing
myself. So I can love them in their
thing deeply and support them through this without it dragging
me down as well. I think that's an important
thing to remember. So there's just some of the
things we're going to underpin it again one more time with and
get help because there's so manyresources that can help you.
People are qualified in this. Working through people that have
(43:01):
gone through burnout, working through people navigating mental
health and having that resource there is a game changer.
In Australia, you can go get a mental health care plan from
your GP. We explained this to our GPS.
That's how we got our mental health care plans and that
heavily discounts. Yeah, I did the the support that
you end up getting. Yeah, I got my own free because
(43:21):
it was through our work. You still got discounted though.
And just to just to say too likewe are still getting help like
we did last year. We did that trip to New Zealand
for some specific support for us.
So it's it's we're constantly doing this and you're even doing
this now yourself with the coaching course, like you're
working with women in this spacetoo, of helping identify stuff,
(43:43):
you know, because a lot of the the reason, the support you get,
like you do know, you you can look after yourself majority of
the time, but a lot of the timesit's like identifying what it is
that's bringing us down, which is the hard thing.
And that was where we the support, the help that we get
was the understanding of what's going on that the unpacking of
(44:03):
actually, you know, I've just gone through an intense work
period. And then you get that, that,
that professional speaking. It's like, yeah, you did go
through that professional experience, you know, work
experience that was difficult, but you also carrying all these
other things you haven't dealt with is now catching up to you
as well. So it's really helping break
those things apart, equipping you with understanding and also
(44:25):
just giving grace, man. Like, I, dude, that was huge for
me. The the understanding of like,
I'm not stupid for feeling what I feel was such a revelation, I
think for me, yeah. Especially if you hadn't quite
understood the mental health space before.
Yeah. Exactly.
All right guys, well we're goingto go into a reality check
corner and this is all related to burnout as well.
(44:47):
Three things that you can do practically in your relationship
right now to check in with thesethings.
We really don't want to just be a podcast that talks and gives
information. We want to be some a podcast
that can encourage and equip youright now if you are up to it.
So if you're keen to implement some of these things, have a
listen. The first one is a reflection
prompt and that is where might you be living in survival mode
(45:10):
and calling it normal? What is your body trying to tell
you that you've been ignoring? What is a long term cost of
pushing through like this? And this is about honesty.
It's not about guilt. Burnout is quiet until it breaks
you. So just this this prompt of
where might you be living in survival mode and calling it
normal. And the following point to that
(45:30):
is have that conversation with your partner.
So here's a little challenge foryou as well, just to implement
with your partner at some stage today or in the next few days
when you remember, have a check in point.
Ask your partner at the end of the day, what felt heavy for you
today and then what felt light and get them to ask you to, to
really straightforward, really easy questions to ask to check
in and see how you're going. Even if you don't feel anywhere
(45:52):
near burnout or you don't feel this little rumbling of
something going on, it's a good check in.
It's a good check in to do with your kids after school is a good
check in to do with yourself. So you're reflecting at the end
of the day. And if you like me, like you,
asking yourself those questions can be hard, you know, so for
me, external tools really help. But you can be that for each
other too. So again, like you just said,
(46:13):
you can ask your partner these questions.
I think that's a really solid thing.
It's like, cool, you guys are about to go to bed or, you know,
you get home from work or whatever and you can ask those
questions. So what felt heavy today?
But like even even practical things of where in your body do
you feel that, you know, and asking questions too.
OK, long term, where's this going to impact us?
(46:34):
Right. So asking I think those
questions is is helpful fine if they're external rather than you
trying to go through this yourself.
Yeah, yeah. A lot of the time I don't even
know what feels heavy till you've asked me.
All right, so then the last one here is a future pace.
And this is basically us projecting something into the
future that gives us a real sense of emotion, feeling what
(46:55):
we noticed around us, and then borrowing that for now.
So basically, I'm going to project this thing.
You can sit here and have your eyes closed if you like, while I
read it. And I just want you to picture
as clearly as you possibly can because we're going to borrow
from that picture to help us now.
So imagine it's a year from now,and what once felt heavy is now
light. You found a healthy balance, one
(47:15):
that supports you instead of draining you.
What does it look like in your everyday life?
Who's around you? How are you acting and reacting?
What has changed? How does your body feel now that
you're living from a place of rhythm, not from burnout?
Now bring that feeling back intotoday.
What's 1 conversation you need to have or one thing you need to
(47:35):
adjust with your partner to start moving in that direction?
All right, guys, thank you so much for joining us in our chat
about burnout. Hopefully some of this has been
practical and helpful. It's been good for us to
reflect. It's been helpful.
I think looking back, because sometimes it's not a fun thing
to dredge up those memories. Yeah.
And again, it's, it's sometimes very hard to admit or be OK with
(47:58):
you where you're at. And so being OK with where
you're at is the first thing. Give yourself permission to feel
what you feel. That's the first part of the
journey and then you can take the next steps from there.
Yeah, exactly. And if this hits home, we'd love
for you to share it with a friend or leave a quick review
and have a look on our website at those resources we mentioned
earlier. There are a few that would that
would really support you in thisplace, but thanks for being with
(48:20):
us and we'll chat to you guys soon.
Thanks guys. Good chat.
Bye bye.
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