Feel like you and your partner keep missing each other emotionally? Do you shut down when things get tense or over-explain to get back on the same page? In this episode of Honey, We Need to Chat, we unpack how attachment styles shape the way couples communicate, fight, and try to reconnect.
We break down the three main attachment styles (secure, anxious, and avoidant) where they come from, and how they play out in everyday moments (like text message tone, stonewalling, or needing constant reassurance). Plus, we share our own journey of shifting out of old patterns and building a more secure connection over time.
Whether you're married, dating, or just reflecting on your emotional habits, this conversation will help you put language to your patterns and start healing the cycle.
🧠 Topics covered:
What attachment styles actually are (and where they come from)
Signs of anxious vs. avoidant vs. secure behaviour
Real-life examples of these dynamics in marriage
How to begin healing patterns and move toward secure connection
A practical “Reality Check Corner” with reflective prompts
🎧 Important links:
Want more on Attachment Styles? Download your free worksheet and conversation starter kit on attachment styles at honeyweneedtochat.com/free-relationship-resources
Come see Amy in Come From Away! ➡️ alburyentertainmentcentre.com.au/whatson/come-from-away
Book a Free Clarity Session with Amy ➡️ nextchaptercoaching.com.au/free-clarity-session
🔗Listen now: Anywhere you find your podcasts!
📺Watch on YouTube: Here
relationshipadvice attachmentstyles marriagepodcast mentalhealth secureattachment anxiousattachment avoidantattachment couplescommunication relationshipgrowth honeyweneedtochat
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Honey, we need to chat. Hey guys, welcome back to
another episode of Honey. We need to chat.
Yes, welcome. If you've ever overthought a
text message or laid in bed wideawake wondering if your
partner's vibe is off and something's wrong, then today
(00:27):
this is for you. This is for.
You we're gonna dive into a topic today that is very
relevant to pretty much every couple and can really be a
foundational reason why communication might be
struggling in your relationship.So why communication might be
struggling in your relationship.So stick around.
Yeah, and another reason communication could struggle in
your relationship is because someone in your relationship
(00:48):
might be sick. I might Amy's quite sick.
She's a trooper. She's come onto this podcast
ready and raring and. Mumbling.
Mumbling, but yeah, this is really our heart behind this
podcast guys, is to work throughcommunication.
We believe that when communication and relationship
(01:08):
dies or struggles, that's when bad things happen in a
relationship. The importance of communication
in terms of clearer communication or understanding
the other person when receiving communication is so such an
important and vital part to every relationship.
So this is what we're about. So we do the podcast here.
Amy has also created some resources, free resources for
(01:30):
you guys onto our website at honeymoon to chat.com.
You can go check that out. Free downloads there, but
amazing stuff just to get you guys started.
But she's also started a coaching course now too.
So you can catch up with Amy oneon one.
The females, you can catch up with Amy one on one for that,
which is another amazing thing that she's doing in this space.
And again, we're very passionateabout it.
(01:51):
So what are some things that youwould be working with women on
in this space? Yeah, we're working a lot about
the things that sit behind the decisions that we make in life
or the patterns that we're seeing play out in our lives.
And so women are exploring some of the stuff that might be
keeping them stuck or might be keeping them in repeating
patterns, might be keeping them in a place where they're not
(02:12):
understanding what would be bringing their life to the
fullest. So there's lots of things like
looking at the defining moments that sat behind who we are, are
and would have created us to be the way that we are, the stories
we tell ourselves, the internal conversations.
And I've got a really exciting, completely custom built by
myself, which I'm really excitedand proud about.
Programme coming out in June, all about body image.
(02:33):
And it's going to be super practical in terms of actually
shifting this for people. So watch the space as well.
But yeah, definitely there to doone on one sessions with anyone
who wants to just explore this stuff a little bit more.
You can book in for a free clarity session, which is the
initial session I go through with clients, and you can also
check out the group coaching programmes that are available
there. Yeah, and sorry men, I don't run
(02:56):
any of these sessions for you atthis stage, but like a big heart
of ours as well. So yeah, we we're doing the
podcast, you're doing your coaching stuff.
Something that we want to work towards as well is couples
retreats so that we can work with couples together about.
Yeah, again, there's having an intentional week or weekend to
really grow and equip each otherwith tips and tricks and tools
(03:18):
for your toolkits and your relationships.
That's something that we want togrow and work towards.
So if you would like to support us in this endeavour, please
just do the basic like share, subscribe.
That's what that's the stage we're up to at the moment, just
getting the word out there of this, these amazing resources
and so forth. So please get on to that.
That'd be absolutely amazing. Yeah, cool.
(03:41):
This is actually and that that'sa fast one, by the way.
That's a little bit of us, but we have been busy little bees.
Yes, we have. Yes.
In what? Well, I was just like, this is
the first night time. Oh yeah, recording that we've
done in a long. We have been busy and not
questioning that, I'm just wondering which of the busiest?
Yeah, exactly. So we usually record during the
(04:03):
week, but we've just been flat out, I've been in webinars all
this, all this week or most of this weeks, which is when we
usually record. Today we were filling out all
new lights in our house because our lights were giving us
seizures because they're all flickering on and off.
Yeah. So my uncle came around and
helped us with that. But you've also been doing some
stuff as well. Tell us, what have you been
doing? Yes, I have been rehearsing.
(04:25):
I'm in the final weeks of rehearsing for the musical that
I am a part of, which I'm reallyexcited about.
It's come from away. If you've heard of it, you love
it, and if you haven't heard of it, you're gonna love it when
you watch it. And it's basically this amazing
story of community coming together during September 11th,
but it's community in a tiny little island off of Canada that
(04:46):
all of a sudden their populationdoubled because all these
aeroplanes got diverted there when the twin towers were
attacked. And so this community out of the
blue gets told they're going to have to house 7000 people, which
is double their population with no support or help from anybody
basically. And they all pull together and
make it happen. And it's, it's such a unique
(05:06):
musical. We were talking, we were talking
in an interview on Friday, actually, with the local
newspaper and just trying to explain how unique it is because
it's just super dynamic. It's really like, it's done in
such a magical way, yeah, where each actor is playing multiple
characters and we're literally switching characters on stage in
front of everybody while we're moving the set around and
(05:28):
changing clothes and changing accents.
And it's just it's really dynamic and beautiful.
I remember when you first showedme or started showing me the
show and then you were telling me about it.
My dad. It didn't sound.
Yeah, it doesn't sound great, but it's one of my favourite
musicals now they're. Watches are all.
So many times with the kids as well.
The kids love it too. Yeah, but it's absolutely
(05:48):
amazing. And I have never cried during
the musical until this musical. Like, it is powerful and which
is very strange. I wasn't expecting it from when
you're explaining it. Especially because it's
powerful, but it's also so funnyand light.
Like it's not a real heavy, tragic kind of feel, even though
it's a tragic instance that happened and it's true stories.
(06:09):
It's just incredible. So if you're local to us, please
consider coming and watching come from away.
You can check it out via the link in our bio.
We'll we'll link that up there and put some posts on our social
media. Definitely recommend.
It's going live at the end of May, the beginning of June.
So that is what I have been busythree nights a week plus more
trying to prepare for. And yes.
(06:32):
But you've been doing amazing, though.
So Amy, just a history for you guys.
When Amy and I met, Amy was really into drama and so forth
and got accepted into a acting school in Hawaii.
Yeah. And I wasn't for that.
Like honestly, I wasn't for longdistance where I was at that
stage, we were. Before we started dating that I
was accepted. Yeah, exactly right.
Yeah, so and so she's put that essentially on hold for ever
(06:55):
since then. So 10 years.
We just had our 10 year anniversary and she's finally
getting into this in a major, major role and you're doing so
well. Like it's just, it's just great.
And we're really excited to watch you too.
So get onto that guys. It's gonna be a lot of fun.
And maybe instead of the like 2 seconds we've just talked about
it, listen to our we've we spokeabout it in one of our episodes
where we talk about our story a lot.
(07:16):
Yeah, Blair wasn't telling me not to go chase my dream.
Just to be really clear. If that triggered you, use that
as motivation to go listen to the other episode where we
explain it all. I'm not.
I'm not a jerk most of the time.Yeah, Come from a way.
Come and watch it. Come from a way to come and
watch it. Yeah.
All right, so today we're divinginto a really dynamic topic.
(07:38):
And actually you came up with this topic idea and you stumbled
onto it. And I'm curious if you can share
why it triggered as an idea for something for us to talk.
So someone shared it with me andso it wasn't something I've just
stumbled across. Someone shared with me as a good
topic and then I started exploring it more and I'm like,
oh, this is, this is actually really important to be aware of
(07:59):
from for myself, but also for for our listeners because it was
such AI actually hadn't heard ofthis stuff before.
But I think it's quite common and we're going to get into it.
So I'm being quite vague, but I think it's quite common.
But for me, it was one of those kind of like the mental load
episode, like it was a light bulb moment of like, oh, that's
what I'm doing. So yeah, it was a good one.
Yeah. So tonight we're going to be
(08:20):
talking about attachment styles and how that might play out in
your relationships. Everybody has an attachment
style, so it's relevant to everysingle person.
And the dynamic, the dynamical part I'm going to stand on that
comes in when you're interactingwith multiple, you have multiple
people in your relationship and both of you have different
(08:41):
backgrounds and upbringings thatare going to have shaped you
differently and will be playing out differently.
And so that's why it's importantfor couples to be aware of
because this shapes relationships and it shapes how
you do conflict. It shapes how you do like
quality time together. It shapes a lot of your
reactions to each other. And a lot of people don't have
(09:01):
like a super clear conscious awareness of why they play that
out. They might have like some
awareness. But yeah, we're going to dive
into it tonight because we thinkit's really important to be
aware of so that you can name itand you can put things in place
to work as a team in a better way when.
We're aware of these things. It strengthens the way that we
communicate because we have a greater understanding of why
(09:23):
we're reacting that way. Yeah, exactly.
So attachment styles are things that are that patterns that
started being built from our early childhood.
And it's based on our attachmentto our caregivers.
And it influences how we see relationships, It influences how
we navigate conflict, how we express our needs, how we
respond to emotional threats andhow we see closeness with our
(09:43):
anybody. But in your, in your romantic
relationship, that plays out bigtime.
And there are lots and lots of styles and you could get really,
really detailed, which we're notgoing to do tonight.
And there's also a lot of like combinations.
So you might hear anxious avoidant.
But tonight we're just going to do the three main ones, which is
secure, anxious and avoidant. And if we focus on those ones,
(10:03):
it'll give us a foundation to then look into it further as we
go. And after this episode for you
to look into it further. We're also going to have a free
resource on our website specifically about this to help
you workshop what we talk about a little bit more so we can go
into more detail there. But tonight we're just going to
be focusing on the top three ones, secure, anxious and
(10:23):
avoidant. So when you're developing your
attachment style, it's not just about if you feel loved or don't
feel loved. It's about the consistency
within your upbringing and the consistency from your caregiver.
It's about the emotional attunement that you have with
your caregiver and especially during stress or need.
So it's not just about did we have loving good times, it's
(10:46):
actually about how were we in stressful times, How was I care
for, cared for in stressful and needing times.
And to me as a parent, that is the most challenging part of
this all because it is really significant.
But one thing I do want to say as we dive into this is it's not
about blaming your parents necessarily.
(11:07):
Not to downplay a traumatic upbringing, but it's also
important not for us to just be like, our parents ruined us
because they didn't do this, this and this when a lot of the
time our parents were just doingthe best that they could, same
as we're going to be doing now. And as a mom reading through
this stuff when we're preparing today, I was like.
Yeah, and a big part of these things to like the blame game is
(11:27):
just not OK. And we had to take that
responsibility on ourselves of like, cool, all right, well,
these could be the reasons why I'm reacting this way or
whatever, but it's up to me now to do something about it.
So there is a responsibility. On our side, yeah.
The the blame game, if you want to call it that, is a really
misguided trap to fall into because it actually just keeps
(11:48):
you stuck. Yeah, it doesn't.
Mean more than someone else. Exactly.
Yeah. So it's not, it's, it's not to
downplay that someone can do something to you that you had no
control over and it really has affected you.
That's not to downplay that partof it.
But it, our whole point, our whole culture on this podcast is
we want to uplift people to do like take the reins where they
(12:09):
can and, and implement what theycan in the ownership of their
part of the issue. And in this situation, that's
what we're talking about. Yeah.
Becoming aware of these patterns, aware of where they
came from, but then mostly awareof how they're playing out for
you and how they might be playing out in your
relationship. So yeah, it's about, it's about
how you're raised, not just the love, but also about the
consistency, about how you were cared for when you needed help,
(12:32):
about how your your family navigated stress, that sort of
thing. And the reason is that children
in early childhood cannot regulate their emotions alone.
And so they need to Co regulate with an adult with their
caregiver, sorry. And that process is what starts
to wire their expectations of relationships.
So what they experience in that process where they're Co
(12:53):
regulating wires their brain physically to expect certain
things from relationships. So we're going to dive into a
little bit of where attachment styles started.
So John Balby was a British psychologist who developed the
foundational ideas of attachmenttheory.
I'm reading this by the way. There is no way I can remember
(13:15):
this sort of stuff. But he believed that early bonds
between a child and their caregiver are crucial for the
child's emotional development. He proposed that children are
biologically wired to seek closeness to a caregiver for
safety, survival and especially in times of stress.
Yeah. And we definitely see this with
their own kids, like how much they cling to us.
(13:36):
And sometimes there's, like, toomuch, man.
But how special it is as as well.
Like we are, they're people, youknow, like they, we're the ones
that they come to. But also, Mary Ainsworth was an
American Canadian psychologist who expand.
So this is later on they expanded on Balby's work.
I don't know if I'm pronouncing these names right by the way,
but they're fun to say. She conducted the famous strange
(13:59):
situation study where she observed how infants responded
to separations and reunions withtheir caregiver.
From this, she identified 3 mainattachment styles, secure
attachment, anxious attachment and avoid an attachment.
So together, Balby and Ainsworthhelped helped show that the way
we bond in early childhood can deeply affect how we relate to
(14:20):
others throughout life. Yeah, exactly.
So we just wanted to highlight kind of where the actual
framework or the theory of it came from.
And that's why we now have the words to put to this.
I guess they they've done these studies and seen how kids relate
to their connection with their parents and then further on into
their emotional connection in other relationships.
(14:41):
So these patterns do not stay inchildhood.
They started noticing that actually, oh, it plays out as
you become an adult and it playsout in dating, marriage,
parenting. It plays out in texting, in
arguments. It plays out in your work
situations. It plays out in a lot of
different relationship based spheres of life.
(15:01):
Hence, again, why it's so important for us to be working
on this. So just to quickly run through
those three main ones that we spoke about.
So there's secure attachment, and this seems fairly
straightforward. That's when you're the child
back when they were being caregiver, caregiver by their
caregiver logic and colds, the caregiver.
That's when a caregiver was mostly responsive, warm and
(15:24):
consistent, where comfort was given when they were distressed
and delight when they were calm,where there were safe boundaries
and emotional availability. So basically exactly kind of
what it sounds like, secure. And that in that process, the
child then learns that when I'm upset, someone shows up or my
needs are valid and I can express them safely, or I am
(15:45):
lovable and others are trustworthy.
So really important foundationallessons about what relationship
is like. And then as an adult, as they
grow, you can see that playing out for them in that they are
comfortable with both closeness and independence.
So they can be close and they can be independent and that's a
comfort for them. It's not a an area of anxiety.
(16:06):
They can communicate clearly andrepair after conflict.
They can seek connection withoutfear or pressure.
And so you can probably list offthe top of your head a few
people that you're like, I feel like they're very well adjusted.
They probably have secure attachment.
A note here as well is that no parent is perfect and I needed
to add this note for myself. No parent is perfect and secure
(16:27):
attachment can form even from imperfect but consistent care.
So you're not going to get it right 100% of the time.
And you don't have to stress about that because there's a lot
of grace there, but the consistency of coming back and
apologising and being aware and having that kind of healthy
relationship is what's important.
(16:47):
What's what was fascinating whenI was looking into this and
getting this episode ready was Idid the test, which we can link
people to later, but I fell intothe secure attachment style
part, right? But I was reflecting on that and
I'm like, I actually think I canscore that now because of being
married to you, because of the other part that like sort of my
(17:08):
second one was avoidant 'cause Iwould cut off, right?
I would cut people off. And I would do that quite a lot.
And I was so aware of it though.And I feel like I've, it kind of
set me on the path of I need to work on my stuff because I don't
want that to be my reality in mymarriage.
And so I feel like that's actually changed after 10 years
of marriage. Not not like, yeah, no anything
(17:30):
else. Yeah, it's interesting that you
say that because down the track in today's episode, we're gonna
talk about what I think mine is.And it's a similar kind of thing
how it can just because you've got one attachment style doesn't
mean it play has like once you put it like, yeah, intentional
effort in, it can actually adjust.
So watch this space. But good note on that one also.
(17:51):
You're welcome. I've put in so much work.
No, you just felt super secure after we got together.
All right, so the next one is anxious attachment.
So this anxious attachment is when a child in early childhood
experiences inconsistent caregiving, sometimes nurturing,
sometimes unavailable emotional needs are sometimes dismissed or
(18:13):
overreacted to to inconsistent. And then through that, the child
learns that they need to try harder to be loved.
And that connection can disappear at any moment.
And then that then plays out as an adult in fears of abandonment
or rejection in over focuses on others tones, mood or
availability and may over function in complex to regain
(18:35):
close closeness. So they're like close, get
close, get close kind of thing and very aware of how other
people are feeling. And then the third one that we
mentioned is avoidant attachment, which is what you've
just said as well. And that's when the child
experiences in early childhood emotionally distant caregivers,
they're encouraged to suppress emotion or be self reliant.
(18:57):
And through that, they then learn that my needs are too much
or it's safer to just not need anybody.
And then that plays out as an adult and they feel more safe
with emotional distance and theystruggle to express needs or
tolerate emotional vulnerability.
And that kind of cut off sort ofreaction to fear and
relationship. What's really sending out to me
(19:19):
from you Reading out to these, Ican see our kids.
Yeah, I know. And that's very confronting.
I know, you know, and I know like so when you read through
the anxious attachment one, thatinconsistency, I'm like, oh man,
that's me. Like I, you know, I really
struggle with that consistency of we're chatting today about
how I get quite overwhelmed and I get, I've assimilated and then
(19:43):
I just react and I can see, I can see our kids responding to
that for sure. Yeah, it is a confronting thing
to hear as a parent, 'cause I was thinking the same about
myself. But we're aware of it.
Yeah, that's really. And that's what we can do.
And that's, that's, that's the most important part of this is
being aware of it first. Like really having that self
reflection even in your marriageor your relationship with your
(20:04):
partner or whatever. Not just as a parent, but it's
so important to be reflective onthis and seeing, well, what am I
contributing here? And, and honestly, there's a
part of me that wants to go on this downward spiral of like,
I'm the worst dad because I've definitely gone down the spiral
before. But again, just thinking back to
you though, you know what I justsaid to you before, I really
(20:25):
believe that before marriage, I was struggling with avoidant,
you know, like that was just my thing.
That's what I that's that's how I naturally responded.
But now I don't. And that gives me hope, right?
That shows me the change over 10years.
Like it's 10 years. That's a long time, but it's
changed. It has changed.
And so, yeah, if we don't recognise it, if we don't self
(20:46):
reflect, then we can't do anything about it.
And that gives me excitement even to be like, no, that's not,
I don't have to be like that forever.
What can I do now? Yeah.
And on a random little side notethat we're not going to dive
into too much, I was thinking about how because the
description of anxious attachment is sometimes
nurturing, sometimes unavailableand inconsistent.
(21:07):
And I was thinking, I wonder what this generation of children
are going to experience with parents who have phones because
we're so often just like in our little zombie state around them,
even more than we realise. Like I feel like I am aware that
I'm on my phone too much, but some people are on their phone
and they don't even know it. As in like some people might be
(21:28):
like, no, I'm really intentionalwith not being on my phone.
But there's still these times we're just staring at a box in
our hand and the kids grow up knowing what it is.
Our toddler knows what it is. He knows it's my phone and that
I spend a lot of time on it. And so I wonder if that's going
to even in really secure relationships, I wonder if the
phone dynamic is going to add toanxious attachments at all.
(21:49):
Really fascinating. Anyway, So again, not to get
like down on ourselves, it's just awareness is so freeing.
And that's why I love coaching and that's why I love this
podcast because every little thing you learn about yourself
is one more piece of like one more tool in your toolkit, one
more like step you're taking forward to learn these things.
So this is just an awareness thing.
(22:10):
It hurts sometimes, but it's really important.
So those are the three we're talking about, secure, anxious
and avoidant. And it's more than likely that
you have a mismatch in your relationship or some kind of
combination. And so then understanding the
tendencies is really important for them working through
communication in every other area that we've listed.
(22:30):
So as I mentioned before, I definitely lean towards anxious
attachment. And I've known that for a little
while. I always heard anxious
attachment and I actually spent like maybe a year or two ago, I
like spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out what is my
attachment style and it was really helpful.
And probably the last, I mean, since we got married, really
it's been a slow progression of just developing.
(22:52):
But then really in the last couple of years I've just been
like, I cannot keep just spending so much emotional
energy in these places that weren't helpful.
Anyway, when I was going throughit to prepare for this episode,
I realised that I definitely lean towards anxious attachment.
But I think I've moved through this like process of our
relationship and, and being in asafe space and then learning
(23:15):
about myself, moved into an earned security.
So the phrase I came across was anxious attachment with earned
security. So that might be the same thing
for you, like avoid an attachment with earned security.
And I think meaning that throughthat process, you've earned the
security or the secure, sorry, earned, earned secure.
So you've earned the secure attachment even though it wasn't
(23:37):
necessarily the the foundation that you had.
So I'm definitely still really sensitive to the anxious
attachment stuff. And it's not about fixing it
either, by the way. It's not about like making these
things go away. You're probably always going to
have, that's how your brain naturally will go.
But it's about, oh, I'm moving towards this, I'm bringing it
back, I'm bringing it back. Yeah, it's empowering you to
(23:57):
actually process and and navigate through that situation.
Yeah, exactly. So how you might notice your own
attachment style playing out in your life.
These are just a few examples ofeveryday moments that you might
see it playing out if you want to kind of get a gauge of what
yours might be. Secure means you're comfortable
with space and closeness and youassume good intent.
(24:18):
That's a really good one. Because when I read that, I was
like, I never assume good intent.
I don't always assume bad intent, but I always assume some
kind of intent. But just I know these people
that are always like, yeah, I assume good, good intent and it
so that's, that's how it might play out for you as an adult.
You're comfortable with space, but you're also comfortable with
emotional closeness. And you might assume good
(24:39):
intent, anxious attachment, might feel panicked by silence
or mood changes, might need frequent reassurance.
If you find yourself seeking reassurance often in
relationships, this might be playing out for you.
And so then avoid an attachment.You might see that playing out
by avoiding emotional vulnerability with people.
It's interesting for me though, because I also avoid emotional
(25:00):
vulnerability with people. Like I love connecting, but if I
I well for a time if I found people were getting like too
connected to me, it freaked me out.
Like I even people I really wantto be in a relationship with, I
was like, I can't. I don't know how to express that
I like you. Yeah, but I think this is really
important. Like we've gone through other
things like the four the governments for horsemen, the
(25:22):
five other languages and stuff, and it doesn't.
It's a framework it. Is it's a framework and you're
gonna flip out into other ones. You'll have a little bit of each
one. It's not that this is you, you
know, you're the anxious one. It's not you're going to fit
into all of these difference in some way.
Yeah, exactly. And as I actually said and
already forgot for myself, there's combinations so that you
(25:44):
often hear people say I'm an anxious avoidant.
What does that mean? We'll find out later.
But yes, an avoidant attachment playing out in adulthood would
probably be avoiding vulnerability or preferring
distance or being a bit more task focused.
And then during conflict, some of the ways you might see these
things playing out is if you're secure, you might stay really
grounded or express yourself very clearly and enjoy like be
(26:07):
seeking repair with people. If you're anxious, you might be
chasing connection in conflict. So like overcompensating for a
sense of conflict and feeling like you need to reach out and
make sure it's fine over explaining yourself or
spiralling. And then if your avoidance, you
might find in conflict that you just shut down Stonewall ish,
(26:29):
you might withdraw or escape emotionally.
And that's probably where that cut off thing comes in as well.
No, I'm done and it's not instead of being like I'm
cutting them off because I'm actually really emotionally hurt
by this, I'm cutting them off because they're not, I don't
need them that kind of like attitude.
And these are all protective strategies.
They're not character flaws. It's really important not to be
(26:50):
like, Oh yeah, that's that's my weakness.
They're protective strategies that were learnt, unfortunately
in a time where we learnt what we learnt because we needed what
we needed and we may or may not have been receiving that.
So not something to be done about.
And the reason it matters in relationships, which goes
probably mostly without saying, is when you pair two people with
(27:11):
different styles up, it's going to play out the same as when you
pair two people with different love languages, two people with
different conflict preferences. There's always, it's going to
play out in the way that you engage and react to each other.
And so your patterns can actually activate each other.
So if you have an anxious partner, they might be like, why
(27:32):
don't you talk to me? Because they fear abandonment
and they reach out more. And then if that person's paired
with an avoidant partner, they might be like, I need fee, I
need space because I fear enmeshment and to being too
close and emotional vulnerability.
And they withdraw further. And that's just like a little
chasey game down spiral. So just think about this.
This is kind of how you might see it playing out.
(27:53):
This is an example. So one partner notices that the
other person's quiet after dinner.
The anxious partner asks is everything OK?
And the avoidant partner shrugs and says I'm fine and gets up to
scroll on their phone. The anxious partner then feels
dismissed and starts to probe. You seem off.
Did I do something? No.
Reason. And the avoidant partner feels
(28:15):
smothered and responds coldly. Why do we have to talk about
every little thing? And now they both feel
misunderstood. 1 is trying to connect and the other is just
trying to breathe. So that's the scenario.
This Is Us. Yeah, this happened.
The When did I say you seem cranky at me?
Today it was today I'm like I just walked in the door.
(28:36):
I've been out of the tip all morning.
Yeah, and it seemed cranky anyway.
So this is the anxious avoidant trap.
And unless both people understand what's going on as
we've just played out, it leads to more distance and more
miscommunication, and then frustration.
And then stories build and then there's actual frustration.
I don't know the amount of timesthat I've been like, are you
annoyed? And then you're like, no.
(28:58):
And then I'll say it again, like, are you OK?
Yeah, I'm fine. Are you annoyed?
No, but I'm annoyed now. Like that conversation has
played out so much for us. Then I'm like, I'm just trying
to care for you. I'm just trying to make sure
everything's fine. I understand where you're coming
from, but man it does get annoying.
And then I'm like, if you cared about and asked me how I was, I
(29:18):
would feel loved. So this is very real in our
relationship, not. Very real.
And that's something we want to be continually reassuring.
You guys listening in, like the things that we discussed, like
we are working on, you know, we are still growing in these areas
and he still asks me constantly if I'm OK.
I constantly respond positively and calmly with gracious
(29:42):
impatience. I was talking to someone the
other day and they were like, I was just explaining something we
were talking about. And then she's like, she's like,
oh, so you guys have like struggle through things too.
And I almost got defensive because like, yes.
And then I thought, does our podcast sound like we don't like
we never intend that to be the case.
By the way, I. Think it's because, I mean,
(30:03):
we're talking about like we, we're not, we try not to
constantly talk about our struggles and we talk a lot
about these different theories and all different things we can
do to do, you know, I think it can come across like we've,
we've, we've got them. This is what we do, but it's not
this is what we're learning, butwe do it really well.
And we're pretty perfect. Yeah.
(30:23):
Not anyway. So these, this is how it might
play out. And the amazing thing is once
you start to notice it as a pattern rather than a personal
attack, that's when everything can start to shift.
So when you finally realise thatI'm just asking you if you're OK
because I'm anxiously attached and I love you, then we're going
to be fine. I've got so many comments that I
(30:46):
want to make right now. Continue.
So, identifying your own attachment style, this is a
couple questions you can ask yourself if you want to figure
it out. One, do I panic when I feel
emotionally out of sync? Or do I pull away when someone
gets too close? Or do I stay steady even during
tense moments? So just ask those three
questions and might give you a bit of a, you probably already
(31:09):
have a thought about where you're at.
But just in case you're still wondering or check out our free
resource where we're going to have a bit of a kind of quiz and
deeper dive into working it out for yourself.
And then how to converse, how toconversation with your partner,
how to have that conversation with your partner.
Most of us are blends. So like we've spoken about,
there's a combination, there's blends and it's just a
(31:29):
framework, but one pattern usually is the dominant 1.
So that's probably what plays out most or first and so helpful
to get your head around which one that might be.
All right. So it's all well and good to
notice these patterns playing out for your relationship and
for yourself. Notice it for yourself and then
(31:50):
notice it for your relationship because you, the benefit of you
noticing it for yourself and working on it for yourself, even
outside of the context of your relationship is huge.
But it's all well and good to recognise that and then to have
that. It's really helpful to then have
that conversation. But here are some other
practical ways that you can start navigating this difference
(32:11):
in attachment style within your relationship.
So if you're an anxious person, pause before you react.
If something comes up, just takea moment to breathe and pause
before you jump to a conclusion about what your partner might be
meeting meaning. And then try just verbalising
what you're navigating. So say I'm feeling
disconnection, which may or may not be there, Can we check in
(32:32):
again soon? So can we make a time to check
in and make sure we're connected?
Fine, soon. So you're verbalising what you
need, but you're not letting it run the game.
And then remind yourself that their silence doesn't equal
rejection. Remind you that my silence does
not mean rejection. Except it does.
(32:52):
Only when you annoy me. And then if you're avoidant,
notice the urge to retreat when you're feeling conflict in your
relationship and try again, verbalising what you need and
just say I need time, but I do care and I'll come back.
And we've spoken about that. We've done that.
Yeah, being verbal with, I know that right now I'm leaving this
(33:14):
scenario or I need some space. But I also love you and I will
make an effort to come back to it and then remind yourself that
closeness is not a trap. And then if you're a mixed
pairing between the two of you, create a shared language.
So like we've spoken about little phrases or little things
that help you. So let's take 20 minutes and
(33:36):
come back. That can just become a phrase
that you say when you need it orname patterns gently.
So I'm noticing I'm spiralling. Can we pause and reset and just
pause and reset and then also prioritise repair, even if it's
awkward? It's really important that that
repair is made, even if it's uncomfortable.
Tense moments don't feel good. And then when you're navigating
them differently, they're complicated.
(33:58):
But it's important to repair down the track.
So if you've just had a little aha moment about this way, you
might be attached to relationships.
These are a few little practicalthings for you as well.
You're not broken. This is a pattern.
As we said before, it's a pattern.
It's not a flaw. So these are learned habits and
your awareness is where your power is AT, and that's why
(34:20):
we're navigating these things asparents.
Our awareness is where that power is at, where that
equipping is at. Name your patterns out loud.
The vocal naming of what you're navigating, especially within
your relationship, like the times we've had conversations
where we are able to express thedifferences and how we work have
always brought us closer and always been really helpful.
(34:42):
And sometimes you need to come back to that, like this
conversation even, you know, this is like patterns that play
out for us regularly. And it can get tiring, like when
you, when you keep coming back to the same things, it does get
tiring. You're like, oh, are we still
working on this? But ten years, like, you know,
we've been married and we, we'veworked through so much and we've
become closer in areas, like so many areas, we've still got a
(35:04):
lot of areas to work on, but it's so worth it.
You know, it does get tiring at points, but it is so worth it.
Yeah, absolutely. You're worth it.
Thanks baby. I was talking to Ella's.
House and then one of our favourite ones that we say all
the time is create emotional check insurance have regular
weekly are we good moments to build security.
(35:25):
So having a check in point and this honestly, when we've done
this well, has been extremely freeing from me.
I don't know what it feels like for you because I'm not you, but
like for me to know, yes, I'm ananxious attachment person, but I
also have this day where we check in intentionally and we
have already a booked in time tohave the conversations we need
to have and to prioritise our relationship.
(35:47):
And that was really helpful. And probably from an avoidant
attachment perspective, it's a bit of space so that you, you
have a bit more space before youneed to address things.
And it's a schedule. You know what's coming, you know
what to expect. It's just helpful regardless,
but especially for this kind of a thing.
Then agree on the language you want to use, the phrases you
want to use that you can have aslike almost like little safe
(36:10):
words to like quickly check in. You know where you're at.
You both understand. Oh yeah, this is what that is.
So let's pause and talk in 30 minutes or I'm spiralling or
something. That just it means more to you
as a as a relationship, as a couple, and you can quickly
deploy them when you might not be in the right headspace, which
allows you to come back to it later so that you're not having
(36:33):
to navigate it from within the deep emotions, especially if
you're triggering each other. But you're also able to kind of
remind, like bring kind of a gentleness around the
conversation, I think. And then using bridging language
is another is the last practicaltip here.
So it's hard for me to talk, butI care.
So I need space, but I do care. So I'll come back or I know I
(36:56):
get anxious. Thank you for sticking with me
and just using that like I'm aware of this.
Thank you for your willingness to still be here kind of thing.
So that's the attachment styles as I, as we've mentioned, check
out our free resource about thisbecause we'll dig into them a
little bit more and you can dig into them more.
And we'll also try and create conversation starters and
(37:18):
framework for you guys to navigate this together.
But it's a really important one to understand in yourselves.
And we're going to move into thereality check corner now of
this, which is where we kind of make this practical.
This whole season, our real focus is that we don't want to
just be a podcast that you listen to and it's just another
voice out there in all of the voices in the world.
(37:38):
But we want to be a podcast thatoffers an opportunity to
implement these things really quickly.
It can actually practically impact your life.
Now. If you're willing to step up for
this challenge, then this is something you can do with very
little preparation right now or later in the day when you're
with your partner. So first we're going to have a
reflection question, and this isfor you to reflect internally
(37:59):
and for yourself, your own reflection.
When something feels off in a relationship, how do I usually
respond? Do I try to fix it?
Do I pull back? Do I go quiet?
Do I pretend I'm fine? And then ask yourself, what is
that trying to protect me from? Is it rejection?
Is it conflict? Is it being misunderstood?
(38:20):
Just a little reflection for youto start trying to figure out
what how these patterns might beplaying out for you.
The next one is a challenge thatyou can put into practise this
week. Notice one moment this week
where you go into autopilot and pause and ask yourself what
would a healthy, secure connection look like right now?
So just taking one moment where you can feel these patterns
(38:41):
taking over and instead of reacting as you normally would
or spiralling as you normally would, pause and kind of try and
always step yourself outside of your body and be like, how would
a healthy secure attachment react in this situation?
And try to implement that. And the last one is a future
pace moment. And this is a an activity where
(39:02):
you can kind of visualise what'sgoing on or what you would like
to be moving towards and then borrow some of that feeling and
the emotion that comes from thatvisualise visualisation and
bring it back to today to help motivate and lead you or give
you a bit of clarity about whichdirection you want to move into.
So while I read this one, you can just close your eyes.
It's just a brief one. Close your eyes and take a deep
(39:24):
breath. Picture a version of you who
responds to tension with steadiness.
You don't over explain, you don't vanish or shut down.
You simply say I care. Let's figure this out.
How would that feel? How would you present
differently in your life and what is 1 habit that you could
start today that would move you towards that version of you that
(39:44):
can open your eyes. Let's see how that how that
helps lead us. This has been colds with Amy and
emotional attachment. I'd love this.
I just think again, like every time you and I do a test like
this, we're always the opposite.Just be like me.
But you're broken. So yeah, true.
No, it's a pattern. It's not a, it's a pattern.
(40:05):
It's not a brokenness. And it's really important to
recognise that because it'd be very easy to just be like, oh, I
just, it's a broken way I respond.
It's not broken. It is, it is a defence mechanism
that baby you put in place. So don't let that take you down
mentally. It's a defence mechanism that
was put in place that has now shaped how you how you presented
(40:27):
to the world. And the beauty that comes from
some of that stuff is incredible.
You could list so many strengthsthat come from each of these
attachment styles, even though they might not be the most
constructive or play out the most easily when it comes to
relationships. But there's beauty that comes
from who you are, so don't get too low on that.
But instead let it be a motivation to figure out how it
(40:49):
is you work, how your partner works.
Having that curiosity about how your partner works, how you work
as a couple, how these patterns play out for you so that you are
equipped when they do come up that they aren't running the
game, they aren't running the show, they aren't controlling
how you're acting, You're aware of it, and then you guys can
build things in place to make itwork better.
That's good. Cool.
Awesome. Thank you everyone.
(41:10):
Guys. Good chat.
Honey, we need to chat. Hey guys, welcome back to
another episode of Honey. We need to chat.
Yes, welcome. If you've ever overthought a
text message or laid in bed wideawake wondering if your
partner's vibe is off and something's wrong, then today
(00:27):
this is for you. This is for.
You we're gonna dive into a topic today that is very
relevant to pretty much every couple and can really be a
foundational reason why communication might be
struggling in your relationship.So why communication might be
struggling in your relationship.So stick around.
Yeah, and another reason communication could struggle in
your relationship is because someone in your relationship
(00:48):
might be sick. I might Amy's quite sick.
She's a trooper. She's come onto this podcast
ready and raring and. Mumbling.
Mumbling, but yeah, this is really our heart behind this
podcast guys, is to work throughcommunication.
We believe that when communication and relationship
(01:08):
dies or struggles, that's when bad things happen in a
relationship. The importance of communication
in terms of clearer communication or understanding
the other person when receiving communication is so such an
important and vital part to every relationship.
So this is what we're about. So we do the podcast here.
Amy has also created some resources, free resources for
(01:30):
you guys onto our website at honeymoon to chat.com.
You can go check that out. Free downloads there, but
amazing stuff just to get you guys started.
But she's also started a coaching course now too.
So you can catch up with Amy oneon one.
The females, you can catch up with Amy one on one for that,
which is another amazing thing that she's doing in this space.
And again, we're very passionateabout it.
(01:51):
So what are some things that youwould be working with women on
in this space? Yeah, we're working a lot about
the things that sit behind the decisions that we make in life
or the patterns that we're seeing play out in our lives.
And so women are exploring some of the stuff that might be
keeping them stuck or might be keeping them in repeating
patterns, might be keeping them in a place where they're not
(02:12):
understanding what would be bringing their life to the
fullest. So there's lots of things like
looking at the defining moments that sat behind who we are, are
and would have created us to be the way that we are, the stories
we tell ourselves, the internal conversations.
And I've got a really exciting, completely custom built by
myself, which I'm really excitedand proud about.
Programme coming out in June, all about body image.
(02:33):
And it's going to be super practical in terms of actually
shifting this for people. So watch the space as well.
But yeah, definitely there to doone on one sessions with anyone
who wants to just explore this stuff a little bit more.
You can book in for a free clarity session, which is the
initial session I go through with clients, and you can also
check out the group coaching programmes that are available
there. Yeah, and sorry men, I don't run
(02:56):
any of these sessions for you atthis stage, but like a big heart
of ours as well. So yeah, we we're doing the
podcast, you're doing your coaching stuff.
Something that we want to work towards as well is couples
retreats so that we can work with couples together about.
Yeah, again, there's having an intentional week or weekend to
really grow and equip each otherwith tips and tricks and tools
(03:18):
for your toolkits and your relationships.
That's something that we want togrow and work towards.
So if you would like to support us in this endeavour, please
just do the basic like share, subscribe.
That's what that's the stage we're up to at the moment, just
getting the word out there of this, these amazing resources
and so forth. So please get on to that.
That'd be absolutely amazing. Yeah, cool.
(03:41):
This is actually and that that'sa fast one, by the way.
That's a little bit of us, but we have been busy little bees.
Yes, we have. Yes.
In what? Well, I was just like, this is
the first night time. Oh yeah, recording that we've
done in a long. We have been busy and not
questioning that, I'm just wondering which of the busiest?
Yeah, exactly. So we usually record during the
(04:03):
week, but we've just been flat out, I've been in webinars all
this, all this week or most of this weeks, which is when we
usually record. Today we were filling out all
new lights in our house because our lights were giving us
seizures because they're all flickering on and off.
Yeah. So my uncle came around and
helped us with that. But you've also been doing some
stuff as well. Tell us, what have you been
doing? Yes, I have been rehearsing.
(04:25):
I'm in the final weeks of rehearsing for the musical that
I am a part of, which I'm reallyexcited about.
It's come from away. If you've heard of it, you love
it, and if you haven't heard of it, you're gonna love it when
you watch it. And it's basically this amazing
story of community coming together during September 11th,
but it's community in a tiny little island off of Canada that
(04:46):
all of a sudden their populationdoubled because all these
aeroplanes got diverted there when the twin towers were
attacked. And so this community out of the
blue gets told they're going to have to house 7000 people, which
is double their population with no support or help from anybody
basically. And they all pull together and
make it happen. And it's, it's such a unique
(05:06):
musical. We were talking, we were talking
in an interview on Friday, actually, with the local
newspaper and just trying to explain how unique it is because
it's just super dynamic. It's really like, it's done in
such a magical way, yeah, where each actor is playing multiple
characters and we're literally switching characters on stage in
front of everybody while we're moving the set around and
(05:28):
changing clothes and changing accents.
And it's just it's really dynamic and beautiful.
I remember when you first showedme or started showing me the
show and then you were telling me about it.
My dad. It didn't sound.
Yeah, it doesn't sound great, but it's one of my favourite
musicals now they're. Watches are all.
So many times with the kids as well.
The kids love it too. Yeah, but it's absolutely
(05:48):
amazing. And I have never cried during
the musical until this musical. Like, it is powerful and which
is very strange. I wasn't expecting it from when
you're explaining it. Especially because it's
powerful, but it's also so funnyand light.
Like it's not a real heavy, tragic kind of feel, even though
it's a tragic instance that happened and it's true stories.
(06:09):
It's just incredible. So if you're local to us, please
consider coming and watching come from away.
You can check it out via the link in our bio.
We'll we'll link that up there and put some posts on our social
media. Definitely recommend.
It's going live at the end of May, the beginning of June.
So that is what I have been busythree nights a week plus more
trying to prepare for. And yes.
(06:32):
But you've been doing amazing, though.
So Amy, just a history for you guys.
When Amy and I met, Amy was really into drama and so forth
and got accepted into a acting school in Hawaii.
Yeah. And I wasn't for that.
Like honestly, I wasn't for longdistance where I was at that
stage, we were. Before we started dating that I
was accepted. Yeah, exactly right.
Yeah, so and so she's put that essentially on hold for ever
(06:55):
since then. So 10 years.
We just had our 10 year anniversary and she's finally
getting into this in a major, major role and you're doing so
well. Like it's just, it's just great.
And we're really excited to watch you too.
So get onto that guys. It's gonna be a lot of fun.
And maybe instead of the like 2 seconds we've just talked about
it, listen to our we've we spokeabout it in one of our episodes
where we talk about our story a lot.
(07:16):
Yeah, Blair wasn't telling me not to go chase my dream.
Just to be really clear. If that triggered you, use that
as motivation to go listen to the other episode where we
explain it all. I'm not.
I'm not a jerk most of the time.Yeah, Come from a way.
Come and watch it. Come from a way to come and
watch it. Yeah.
All right, so today we're divinginto a really dynamic topic.
(07:38):
And actually you came up with this topic idea and you stumbled
onto it. And I'm curious if you can share
why it triggered as an idea for something for us to talk.
So someone shared it with me andso it wasn't something I've just
stumbled across. Someone shared with me as a good
topic and then I started exploring it more and I'm like,
oh, this is, this is actually really important to be aware of
(07:59):
from for myself, but also for for our listeners because it was
such AI actually hadn't heard ofthis stuff before.
But I think it's quite common and we're going to get into it.
So I'm being quite vague, but I think it's quite common.
But for me, it was one of those kind of like the mental load
episode, like it was a light bulb moment of like, oh, that's
what I'm doing. So yeah, it was a good one.
Yeah. So tonight we're going to be
(08:20):
talking about attachment styles and how that might play out in
your relationships. Everybody has an attachment
style, so it's relevant to everysingle person.
And the dynamic, the dynamical part I'm going to stand on that
comes in when you're interactingwith multiple, you have multiple
people in your relationship and both of you have different
(08:41):
backgrounds and upbringings thatare going to have shaped you
differently and will be playing out differently.
And so that's why it's importantfor couples to be aware of
because this shapes relationships and it shapes how
you do conflict. It shapes how you do like
quality time together. It shapes a lot of your
reactions to each other. And a lot of people don't have
(09:01):
like a super clear conscious awareness of why they play that
out. They might have like some
awareness. But yeah, we're going to dive
into it tonight because we thinkit's really important to be
aware of so that you can name itand you can put things in place
to work as a team in a better way when.
We're aware of these things. It strengthens the way that we
communicate because we have a greater understanding of why
(09:23):
we're reacting that way. Yeah, exactly.
So attachment styles are things that are that patterns that
started being built from our early childhood.
And it's based on our attachmentto our caregivers.
And it influences how we see relationships, It influences how
we navigate conflict, how we express our needs, how we
respond to emotional threats andhow we see closeness with our
(09:43):
anybody. But in your, in your romantic
relationship, that plays out bigtime.
And there are lots and lots of styles and you could get really,
really detailed, which we're notgoing to do tonight.
And there's also a lot of like combinations.
So you might hear anxious avoidant.
But tonight we're just going to do the three main ones, which is
secure, anxious and avoidant. And if we focus on those ones,
(10:03):
it'll give us a foundation to then look into it further as we
go. And after this episode for you
to look into it further. We're also going to have a free
resource on our website specifically about this to help
you workshop what we talk about a little bit more so we can go
into more detail there. But tonight we're just going to
be focusing on the top three ones, secure, anxious and
(10:23):
avoidant. So when you're developing your
attachment style, it's not just about if you feel loved or don't
feel loved. It's about the consistency
within your upbringing and the consistency from your caregiver.
It's about the emotional attunement that you have with
your caregiver and especially during stress or need.
So it's not just about did we have loving good times, it's
(10:46):
actually about how were we in stressful times, How was I care
for, cared for in stressful and needing times.
And to me as a parent, that is the most challenging part of
this all because it is really significant.
But one thing I do want to say as we dive into this is it's not
about blaming your parents necessarily.
(11:07):
Not to downplay a traumatic upbringing, but it's also
important not for us to just be like, our parents ruined us
because they didn't do this, this and this when a lot of the
time our parents were just doingthe best that they could, same
as we're going to be doing now. And as a mom reading through
this stuff when we're preparing today, I was like.
Yeah, and a big part of these things to like the blame game is
(11:27):
just not OK. And we had to take that
responsibility on ourselves of like, cool, all right, well,
these could be the reasons why I'm reacting this way or
whatever, but it's up to me now to do something about it.
So there is a responsibility. On our side, yeah.
The the blame game, if you want to call it that, is a really
misguided trap to fall into because it actually just keeps
(11:48):
you stuck. Yeah, it doesn't.
Mean more than someone else. Exactly.
Yeah. So it's not, it's, it's not to
downplay that someone can do something to you that you had no
control over and it really has affected you.
That's not to downplay that partof it.
But it, our whole point, our whole culture on this podcast is
we want to uplift people to do like take the reins where they
(12:09):
can and, and implement what theycan in the ownership of their
part of the issue. And in this situation, that's
what we're talking about. Yeah.
Becoming aware of these patterns, aware of where they
came from, but then mostly awareof how they're playing out for
you and how they might be playing out in your
relationship. So yeah, it's about, it's about
how you're raised, not just the love, but also about the
consistency, about how you were cared for when you needed help,
(12:32):
about how your your family navigated stress, that sort of
thing. And the reason is that children
in early childhood cannot regulate their emotions alone.
And so they need to Co regulate with an adult with their
caregiver, sorry. And that process is what starts
to wire their expectations of relationships.
So what they experience in that process where they're Co
(12:53):
regulating wires their brain physically to expect certain
things from relationships. So we're going to dive into a
little bit of where attachment styles started.
So John Balby was a British psychologist who developed the
foundational ideas of attachmenttheory.
I'm reading this by the way. There is no way I can remember
(13:15):
this sort of stuff. But he believed that early bonds
between a child and their caregiver are crucial for the
child's emotional development. He proposed that children are
biologically wired to seek closeness to a caregiver for
safety, survival and especially in times of stress.
Yeah. And we definitely see this with
their own kids, like how much they cling to us.
(13:36):
And sometimes there's, like, toomuch, man.
But how special it is as as well.
Like we are, they're people, youknow, like they, we're the ones
that they come to. But also, Mary Ainsworth was an
American Canadian psychologist who expand.
So this is later on they expanded on Balby's work.
I don't know if I'm pronouncing these names right by the way,
but they're fun to say. She conducted the famous strange
(13:59):
situation study where she observed how infants responded
to separations and reunions withtheir caregiver.
From this, she identified 3 mainattachment styles, secure
attachment, anxious attachment and avoid an attachment.
So together, Balby and Ainsworthhelped helped show that the way
we bond in early childhood can deeply affect how we relate to
(14:20):
others throughout life. Yeah, exactly.
So we just wanted to highlight kind of where the actual
framework or the theory of it came from.
And that's why we now have the words to put to this.
I guess they they've done these studies and seen how kids relate
to their connection with their parents and then further on into
their emotional connection in other relationships.
(14:41):
So these patterns do not stay inchildhood.
They started noticing that actually, oh, it plays out as
you become an adult and it playsout in dating, marriage,
parenting. It plays out in texting, in
arguments. It plays out in your work
situations. It plays out in a lot of
different relationship based spheres of life.
(15:01):
Hence, again, why it's so important for us to be working
on this. So just to quickly run through
those three main ones that we spoke about.
So there's secure attachment, and this seems fairly
straightforward. That's when you're the child
back when they were being caregiver, caregiver by their
caregiver logic and colds, the caregiver.
That's when a caregiver was mostly responsive, warm and
(15:24):
consistent, where comfort was given when they were distressed
and delight when they were calm,where there were safe boundaries
and emotional availability. So basically exactly kind of
what it sounds like, secure. And that in that process, the
child then learns that when I'm upset, someone shows up or my
needs are valid and I can express them safely, or I am
(15:45):
lovable and others are trustworthy.
So really important foundationallessons about what relationship
is like. And then as an adult, as they
grow, you can see that playing out for them in that they are
comfortable with both closeness and independence.
So they can be close and they can be independent and that's a
comfort for them. It's not a an area of anxiety.
(16:06):
They can communicate clearly andrepair after conflict.
They can seek connection withoutfear or pressure.
And so you can probably list offthe top of your head a few
people that you're like, I feel like they're very well adjusted.
They probably have secure attachment.
A note here as well is that no parent is perfect and I needed
to add this note for myself. No parent is perfect and secure
(16:27):
attachment can form even from imperfect but consistent care.
So you're not going to get it right 100% of the time.
And you don't have to stress about that because there's a lot
of grace there, but the consistency of coming back and
apologising and being aware and having that kind of healthy
relationship is what's important.
(16:47):
What's what was fascinating whenI was looking into this and
getting this episode ready was Idid the test, which we can link
people to later, but I fell intothe secure attachment style
part, right? But I was reflecting on that and
I'm like, I actually think I canscore that now because of being
married to you, because of the other part that like sort of my
(17:08):
second one was avoidant 'cause Iwould cut off, right?
I would cut people off. And I would do that quite a lot.
And I was so aware of it though.And I feel like I've, it kind of
set me on the path of I need to work on my stuff because I don't
want that to be my reality in mymarriage.
And so I feel like that's actually changed after 10 years
of marriage. Not not like, yeah, no anything
(17:30):
else. Yeah, it's interesting that you
say that because down the track in today's episode, we're gonna
talk about what I think mine is.And it's a similar kind of thing
how it can just because you've got one attachment style doesn't
mean it play has like once you put it like, yeah, intentional
effort in, it can actually adjust.
So watch this space. But good note on that one also.
(17:51):
You're welcome. I've put in so much work.
No, you just felt super secure after we got together.
All right, so the next one is anxious attachment.
So this anxious attachment is when a child in early childhood
experiences inconsistent caregiving, sometimes nurturing,
sometimes unavailable emotional needs are sometimes dismissed or
(18:13):
overreacted to to inconsistent. And then through that, the child
learns that they need to try harder to be loved.
And that connection can disappear at any moment.
And then that then plays out as an adult in fears of abandonment
or rejection in over focuses on others tones, mood or
availability and may over function in complex to regain
(18:35):
close closeness. So they're like close, get
close, get close kind of thing and very aware of how other
people are feeling. And then the third one that we
mentioned is avoidant attachment, which is what you've
just said as well. And that's when the child
experiences in early childhood emotionally distant caregivers,
they're encouraged to suppress emotion or be self reliant.
(18:57):
And through that, they then learn that my needs are too much
or it's safer to just not need anybody.
And then that plays out as an adult and they feel more safe
with emotional distance and theystruggle to express needs or
tolerate emotional vulnerability.
And that kind of cut off sort ofreaction to fear and
relationship. What's really sending out to me
(19:19):
from you Reading out to these, Ican see our kids.
Yeah, I know. And that's very confronting.
I know, you know, and I know like so when you read through
the anxious attachment one, thatinconsistency, I'm like, oh man,
that's me. Like I, you know, I really
struggle with that consistency of we're chatting today about
how I get quite overwhelmed and I get, I've assimilated and then
(19:43):
I just react and I can see, I can see our kids responding to
that for sure. Yeah, it is a confronting thing
to hear as a parent, 'cause I was thinking the same about
myself. But we're aware of it.
Yeah, that's really. And that's what we can do.
And that's, that's, that's the most important part of this is
being aware of it first. Like really having that self
reflection even in your marriageor your relationship with your
(20:04):
partner or whatever. Not just as a parent, but it's
so important to be reflective onthis and seeing, well, what am I
contributing here? And, and honestly, there's a
part of me that wants to go on this downward spiral of like,
I'm the worst dad because I've definitely gone down the spiral
before. But again, just thinking back to
you though, you know what I justsaid to you before, I really
(20:25):
believe that before marriage, I was struggling with avoidant,
you know, like that was just my thing.
That's what I that's that's how I naturally responded.
But now I don't. And that gives me hope, right?
That shows me the change over 10years.
Like it's 10 years. That's a long time, but it's
changed. It has changed.
And so, yeah, if we don't recognise it, if we don't self
(20:46):
reflect, then we can't do anything about it.
And that gives me excitement even to be like, no, that's not,
I don't have to be like that forever.
What can I do now? Yeah.
And on a random little side notethat we're not going to dive
into too much, I was thinking about how because the
description of anxious attachment is sometimes
nurturing, sometimes unavailableand inconsistent.
(21:07):
And I was thinking, I wonder what this generation of children
are going to experience with parents who have phones because
we're so often just like in our little zombie state around them,
even more than we realise. Like I feel like I am aware that
I'm on my phone too much, but some people are on their phone
and they don't even know it. As in like some people might be
(21:28):
like, no, I'm really intentionalwith not being on my phone.
But there's still these times we're just staring at a box in
our hand and the kids grow up knowing what it is.
Our toddler knows what it is. He knows it's my phone and that
I spend a lot of time on it. And so I wonder if that's going
to even in really secure relationships, I wonder if the
phone dynamic is going to add toanxious attachments at all.
(21:49):
Really fascinating. Anyway, So again, not to get
like down on ourselves, it's just awareness is so freeing.
And that's why I love coaching and that's why I love this
podcast because every little thing you learn about yourself
is one more piece of like one more tool in your toolkit, one
more like step you're taking forward to learn these things.
So this is just an awareness thing.
(22:10):
It hurts sometimes, but it's really important.
So those are the three we're talking about, secure, anxious
and avoidant. And it's more than likely that
you have a mismatch in your relationship or some kind of
combination. And so then understanding the
tendencies is really important for them working through
communication in every other area that we've listed.
(22:30):
So as I mentioned before, I definitely lean towards anxious
attachment. And I've known that for a little
while. I always heard anxious
attachment and I actually spent like maybe a year or two ago, I
like spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out what is my
attachment style and it was really helpful.
And probably the last, I mean, since we got married, really
it's been a slow progression of just developing.
(22:52):
But then really in the last couple of years I've just been
like, I cannot keep just spending so much emotional
energy in these places that weren't helpful.
Anyway, when I was going throughit to prepare for this episode,
I realised that I definitely lean towards anxious attachment.
But I think I've moved through this like process of our
relationship and, and being in asafe space and then learning
(23:15):
about myself, moved into an earned security.
So the phrase I came across was anxious attachment with earned
security. So that might be the same thing
for you, like avoid an attachment with earned security.
And I think meaning that throughthat process, you've earned the
security or the secure, sorry, earned, earned secure.
So you've earned the secure attachment even though it wasn't
(23:37):
necessarily the the foundation that you had.
So I'm definitely still really sensitive to the anxious
attachment stuff. And it's not about fixing it
either, by the way. It's not about like making these
things go away. You're probably always going to
have, that's how your brain naturally will go.
But it's about, oh, I'm moving towards this, I'm bringing it
back, I'm bringing it back. Yeah, it's empowering you to
(23:57):
actually process and and navigate through that situation.
Yeah, exactly. So how you might notice your own
attachment style playing out in your life.
These are just a few examples ofeveryday moments that you might
see it playing out if you want to kind of get a gauge of what
yours might be. Secure means you're comfortable
with space and closeness and youassume good intent.
(24:18):
That's a really good one. Because when I read that, I was
like, I never assume good intent.
I don't always assume bad intent, but I always assume some
kind of intent. But just I know these people
that are always like, yeah, I assume good, good intent and it
so that's, that's how it might play out for you as an adult.
You're comfortable with space, but you're also comfortable with
emotional closeness. And you might assume good
(24:39):
intent, anxious attachment, might feel panicked by silence
or mood changes, might need frequent reassurance.
If you find yourself seeking reassurance often in
relationships, this might be playing out for you.
And so then avoid an attachment.You might see that playing out
by avoiding emotional vulnerability with people.
It's interesting for me though, because I also avoid emotional
(25:00):
vulnerability with people. Like I love connecting, but if I
I well for a time if I found people were getting like too
connected to me, it freaked me out.
Like I even people I really wantto be in a relationship with, I
was like, I can't. I don't know how to express that
I like you. Yeah, but I think this is really
important. Like we've gone through other
things like the four the governments for horsemen, the
(25:22):
five other languages and stuff, and it doesn't.
It's a framework it. Is it's a framework and you're
gonna flip out into other ones. You'll have a little bit of each
one. It's not that this is you, you
know, you're the anxious one. It's not you're going to fit
into all of these difference in some way.
Yeah, exactly. And as I actually said and
already forgot for myself, there's combinations so that you
(25:44):
often hear people say I'm an anxious avoidant.
What does that mean? We'll find out later.
But yes, an avoidant attachment playing out in adulthood would
probably be avoiding vulnerability or preferring
distance or being a bit more task focused.
And then during conflict, some of the ways you might see these
things playing out is if you're secure, you might stay really
grounded or express yourself very clearly and enjoy like be
(26:07):
seeking repair with people. If you're anxious, you might be
chasing connection in conflict. So like overcompensating for a
sense of conflict and feeling like you need to reach out and
make sure it's fine over explaining yourself or
spiralling. And then if your avoidance, you
might find in conflict that you just shut down Stonewall ish,
(26:29):
you might withdraw or escape emotionally.
And that's probably where that cut off thing comes in as well.
No, I'm done and it's not instead of being like I'm
cutting them off because I'm actually really emotionally hurt
by this, I'm cutting them off because they're not, I don't
need them that kind of like attitude.
And these are all protective strategies.
They're not character flaws. It's really important not to be
(26:50):
like, Oh yeah, that's that's my weakness.
They're protective strategies that were learnt, unfortunately
in a time where we learnt what we learnt because we needed what
we needed and we may or may not have been receiving that.
So not something to be done about.
And the reason it matters in relationships, which goes
probably mostly without saying, is when you pair two people with
(27:11):
different styles up, it's going to play out the same as when you
pair two people with different love languages, two people with
different conflict preferences. There's always, it's going to
play out in the way that you engage and react to each other.
And so your patterns can actually activate each other.
So if you have an anxious partner, they might be like, why
(27:32):
don't you talk to me? Because they fear abandonment
and they reach out more. And then if that person's paired
with an avoidant partner, they might be like, I need fee, I
need space because I fear enmeshment and to being too
close and emotional vulnerability.
And they withdraw further. And that's just like a little
chasey game down spiral. So just think about this.
This is kind of how you might see it playing out.
(27:53):
This is an example. So one partner notices that the
other person's quiet after dinner.
The anxious partner asks is everything OK?
And the avoidant partner shrugs and says I'm fine and gets up to
scroll on their phone. The anxious partner then feels
dismissed and starts to probe. You seem off.
Did I do something? No.
Reason. And the avoidant partner feels
(28:15):
smothered and responds coldly. Why do we have to talk about
every little thing? And now they both feel
misunderstood. 1 is trying to connect and the other is just
trying to breathe. So that's the scenario.
This Is Us. Yeah, this happened.
The When did I say you seem cranky at me?
Today it was today I'm like I just walked in the door.
(28:36):
I've been out of the tip all morning.
Yeah, and it seemed cranky anyway.
So this is the anxious avoidant trap.
And unless both people understand what's going on as
we've just played out, it leads to more distance and more
miscommunication, and then frustration.
And then stories build and then there's actual frustration.
I don't know the amount of timesthat I've been like, are you
annoyed? And then you're like, no.
(28:58):
And then I'll say it again, like, are you OK?
Yeah, I'm fine. Are you annoyed?
No, but I'm annoyed now. Like that conversation has
played out so much for us. Then I'm like, I'm just trying
to care for you. I'm just trying to make sure
everything's fine. I understand where you're coming
from, but man it does get annoying.
And then I'm like, if you cared about and asked me how I was, I
(29:18):
would feel loved. So this is very real in our
relationship, not. Very real.
And that's something we want to be continually reassuring.
You guys listening in, like the things that we discussed, like
we are working on, you know, we are still growing in these areas
and he still asks me constantly if I'm OK.
I constantly respond positively and calmly with gracious
(29:42):
impatience. I was talking to someone the
other day and they were like, I was just explaining something we
were talking about. And then she's like, she's like,
oh, so you guys have like struggle through things too.
And I almost got defensive because like, yes.
And then I thought, does our podcast sound like we don't like
we never intend that to be the case.
By the way, I. Think it's because, I mean,
(30:03):
we're talking about like we, we're not, we try not to
constantly talk about our struggles and we talk a lot
about these different theories and all different things we can
do to do, you know, I think it can come across like we've,
we've, we've got them. This is what we do, but it's not
this is what we're learning, butwe do it really well.
And we're pretty perfect. Yeah.
(30:23):
Not anyway. So these, this is how it might
play out. And the amazing thing is once
you start to notice it as a pattern rather than a personal
attack, that's when everything can start to shift.
So when you finally realise thatI'm just asking you if you're OK
because I'm anxiously attached and I love you, then we're going
to be fine. I've got so many comments that I
(30:46):
want to make right now. Continue.
So, identifying your own attachment style, this is a
couple questions you can ask yourself if you want to figure
it out. One, do I panic when I feel
emotionally out of sync? Or do I pull away when someone
gets too close? Or do I stay steady even during
tense moments? So just ask those three
questions and might give you a bit of a, you probably already
(31:09):
have a thought about where you're at.
But just in case you're still wondering or check out our free
resource where we're going to have a bit of a kind of quiz and
deeper dive into working it out for yourself.
And then how to converse, how toconversation with your partner,
how to have that conversation with your partner.
Most of us are blends. So like we've spoken about,
there's a combination, there's blends and it's just a
(31:29):
framework, but one pattern usually is the dominant 1.
So that's probably what plays out most or first and so helpful
to get your head around which one that might be.
All right. So it's all well and good to
notice these patterns playing out for your relationship and
for yourself. Notice it for yourself and then
(31:50):
notice it for your relationship because you, the benefit of you
noticing it for yourself and working on it for yourself, even
outside of the context of your relationship is huge.
But it's all well and good to recognise that and then to have
that. It's really helpful to then have
that conversation. But here are some other
practical ways that you can start navigating this difference
(32:11):
in attachment style within your relationship.
So if you're an anxious person, pause before you react.
If something comes up, just takea moment to breathe and pause
before you jump to a conclusion about what your partner might be
meeting meaning. And then try just verbalising
what you're navigating. So say I'm feeling
disconnection, which may or may not be there, Can we check in
(32:32):
again soon? So can we make a time to check
in and make sure we're connected?
Fine, soon. So you're verbalising what you
need, but you're not letting it run the game.
And then remind yourself that their silence doesn't equal
rejection. Remind you that my silence does
not mean rejection. Except it does.
(32:52):
Only when you annoy me. And then if you're avoidant,
notice the urge to retreat when you're feeling conflict in your
relationship and try again, verbalising what you need and
just say I need time, but I do care and I'll come back.
And we've spoken about that. We've done that.
Yeah, being verbal with, I know that right now I'm leaving this
(33:14):
scenario or I need some space. But I also love you and I will
make an effort to come back to it and then remind yourself that
closeness is not a trap. And then if you're a mixed
pairing between the two of you, create a shared language.
So like we've spoken about little phrases or little things
that help you. So let's take 20 minutes and
(33:36):
come back. That can just become a phrase
that you say when you need it orname patterns gently.
So I'm noticing I'm spiralling. Can we pause and reset and just
pause and reset and then also prioritise repair, even if it's
awkward? It's really important that that
repair is made, even if it's uncomfortable.
Tense moments don't feel good. And then when you're navigating
them differently, they're complicated.
(33:58):
But it's important to repair down the track.
So if you've just had a little aha moment about this way, you
might be attached to relationships.
These are a few little practicalthings for you as well.
You're not broken. This is a pattern.
As we said before, it's a pattern.
It's not a flaw. So these are learned habits and
your awareness is where your power is AT, and that's why
(34:20):
we're navigating these things asparents.
Our awareness is where that power is at, where that
equipping is at. Name your patterns out loud.
The vocal naming of what you're navigating, especially within
your relationship, like the times we've had conversations
where we are able to express thedifferences and how we work have
always brought us closer and always been really helpful.
(34:42):
And sometimes you need to come back to that, like this
conversation even, you know, this is like patterns that play
out for us regularly. And it can get tiring, like when
you, when you keep coming back to the same things, it does get
tiring. You're like, oh, are we still
working on this? But ten years, like, you know,
we've been married and we, we'veworked through so much and we've
become closer in areas, like so many areas, we've still got a
(35:04):
lot of areas to work on, but it's so worth it.
You know, it does get tiring at points, but it is so worth it.
Yeah, absolutely. You're worth it.
Thanks baby. I was talking to Ella's.
House and then one of our favourite ones that we say all
the time is create emotional check insurance have regular
weekly are we good moments to build security.
(35:25):
So having a check in point and this honestly, when we've done
this well, has been extremely freeing from me.
I don't know what it feels like for you because I'm not you, but
like for me to know, yes, I'm ananxious attachment person, but I
also have this day where we check in intentionally and we
have already a booked in time tohave the conversations we need
to have and to prioritise our relationship.
(35:47):
And that was really helpful. And probably from an avoidant
attachment perspective, it's a bit of space so that you, you
have a bit more space before youneed to address things.
And it's a schedule. You know what's coming, you know
what to expect. It's just helpful regardless,
but especially for this kind of a thing.
Then agree on the language you want to use, the phrases you
want to use that you can have aslike almost like little safe
(36:10):
words to like quickly check in. You know where you're at.
You both understand. Oh yeah, this is what that is.
So let's pause and talk in 30 minutes or I'm spiralling or
something. That just it means more to you
as a as a relationship, as a couple, and you can quickly
deploy them when you might not be in the right headspace, which
allows you to come back to it later so that you're not having
(36:33):
to navigate it from within the deep emotions, especially if
you're triggering each other. But you're also able to kind of
remind, like bring kind of a gentleness around the
conversation, I think. And then using bridging language
is another is the last practicaltip here.
So it's hard for me to talk, butI care.
So I need space, but I do care. So I'll come back or I know I
(36:56):
get anxious. Thank you for sticking with me
and just using that like I'm aware of this.
Thank you for your willingness to still be here kind of thing.
So that's the attachment styles as I, as we've mentioned, check
out our free resource about thisbecause we'll dig into them a
little bit more and you can dig into them more.
And we'll also try and create conversation starters and
(37:18):
framework for you guys to navigate this together.
But it's a really important one to understand in yourselves.
And we're going to move into thereality check corner now of
this, which is where we kind of make this practical.
This whole season, our real focus is that we don't want to
just be a podcast that you listen to and it's just another
voice out there in all of the voices in the world.
(37:38):
But we want to be a podcast thatoffers an opportunity to
implement these things really quickly.
It can actually practically impact your life.
Now. If you're willing to step up for
this challenge, then this is something you can do with very
little preparation right now or later in the day when you're
with your partner. So first we're going to have a
reflection question, and this isfor you to reflect internally
(37:59):
and for yourself, your own reflection.
When something feels off in a relationship, how do I usually
respond? Do I try to fix it?
Do I pull back? Do I go quiet?
Do I pretend I'm fine? And then ask yourself, what is
that trying to protect me from? Is it rejection?
Is it conflict? Is it being misunderstood?
(38:20):
Just a little reflection for youto start trying to figure out
what how these patterns might beplaying out for you.
The next one is a challenge thatyou can put into practise this
week. Notice one moment this week
where you go into autopilot and pause and ask yourself what
would a healthy, secure connection look like right now?
So just taking one moment where you can feel these patterns
(38:41):
taking over and instead of reacting as you normally would
or spiralling as you normally would, pause and kind of try and
always step yourself outside of your body and be like, how would
a healthy secure attachment react in this situation?
And try to implement that. And the last one is a future
pace moment. And this is a an activity where
(39:02):
you can kind of visualise what'sgoing on or what you would like
to be moving towards and then borrow some of that feeling and
the emotion that comes from thatvisualise visualisation and
bring it back to today to help motivate and lead you or give
you a bit of clarity about whichdirection you want to move into.
So while I read this one, you can just close your eyes.
It's just a brief one. Close your eyes and take a deep
(39:24):
breath. Picture a version of you who
responds to tension with steadiness.
You don't over explain, you don't vanish or shut down.
You simply say I care. Let's figure this out.
How would that feel? How would you present
differently in your life and what is 1 habit that you could
start today that would move you towards that version of you that
(39:44):
can open your eyes. Let's see how that how that
helps lead us. This has been colds with Amy and
emotional attachment. I'd love this.
I just think again, like every time you and I do a test like
this, we're always the opposite.Just be like me.
But you're broken. So yeah, true.
No, it's a pattern. It's not a, it's a pattern.
(40:05):
It's not a brokenness. And it's really important to
recognise that because it'd be very easy to just be like, oh, I
just, it's a broken way I respond.
It's not broken. It is, it is a defence mechanism
that baby you put in place. So don't let that take you down
mentally. It's a defence mechanism that
was put in place that has now shaped how you how you presented
(40:27):
to the world. And the beauty that comes from
some of that stuff is incredible.
You could list so many strengthsthat come from each of these
attachment styles, even though they might not be the most
constructive or play out the most easily when it comes to
relationships. But there's beauty that comes
from who you are, so don't get too low on that.
But instead let it be a motivation to figure out how it
(40:49):
is you work, how your partner works.
Having that curiosity about how your partner works, how you work
as a couple, how these patterns play out for you so that you are
equipped when they do come up that they aren't running the
game, they aren't running the show, they aren't controlling
how you're acting, You're aware of it, and then you guys can
build things in place to make itwork better.
That's good. Cool.
Awesome. Thank you everyone.
(41:10):
Guys. Good chat.
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