Why do the smallest things trigger the biggest arguments? In this episode, we unpack the sneaky, subtle unmet needs that quietly shape our relationship dynamics, often without us realising it. From rejected dinners to phone use tensions and dead bedrooms, we explore real Reddit stories that show how core emotional needs go unspoken and how that misfires into conflict.
You'll learn:
What unmet needs really are (and why they’re so sneaky)
Common signs you’re missing each other emotionally
Why assumptions and silence create deeper disconnect
Practical tools to communicate needs without drama
How to spot patterns and build healthier habits together
💬 Whether you’re feeling disconnected or want to avoid drifting apart, this episode gives you relatable insight and practical tools to tackle the root - not just the symptoms - of tension.
🎧 Listen on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.
📺 Watch on YouTube
📥 Get free tools + coaching support: honeyweneedtochat.com
Come and watch Amy in Come From Away
unmet needs in relationships, communication in relationships, marriage podcast, relationship advice, emotional disconnection, intimacy problems, dead bedroom, how to fix your marriage, relationship burnout, couples therapy, real reddit stories, relationship coaching, how to communicate better, podcast for couples, emotional needs in marriage, relationship growth, healthy relationship tips, Honey We Need to Chat, Christian relationship podcast, how to talk to your partner
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Your willingness to explore things will almost always make a
way. Yeah, if you can be willing.
It is the being met with unwillingness that there's only
so far that that can go. Yeah.
Hey guys, welcome back to Honey.We Need to chat.
We are the podcasts all about communication in a relationship.
We believe that when communication dies in a
(00:22):
relationship, bad things happen.Yes, so we chat.
We do. We chat about it.
Yeah. And do you know what is really
cool just by the fact that you're listening to this
episode, that tells us somethingabout who you are as well.
And that tells us that you are passionate about having an
enriched relationship. You're passionate about
communication, you're passionateabout the type of partner that
you are or you want to be in relationship and you're willing
(00:43):
to be challenged in growth. So we're so excited to have you
here because this topic is huge.We're going to be diving into
something really important for relationships today.
It's all about unmet needs, the sneaky ones and the subtle ones
that kind of just sit there and we don't really even necessarily
identify them for ourselves. And unfortunately they often
lead to some big blow UPS. So today's topic is heavy.
It's important and it's the exact type of content that
(01:06):
people like us, you and us really love to tackle to enrich
us as partners and is a Reddit episode.
So we're going to dive into somereal stories about this stuff.
We're going to listen to examples of real life people
navigating unmet needs in a variety of ways and workshop
them together to see how we would tackle them and see what
practical ways can come out of that.
(01:26):
So today we're going to be exploring a few stories that
unpack the really quiet unmet needs that we don't always
communicate about, but do often show up in the gaps or in the
heated moments. They kind of blow up in
arguments. And by the end, we're going to
be sitting with a story that is pretty common, I think, in
relationships, one of the most common unmet needs that a lot of
(01:48):
couples are afraid to tackle. So stick around for that one.
If intimacy, distance or feelingunwanted is something that
you've tackled and something youwant to be challenged and
strengthened in, this is for you.
You're not alone and we are hereto chat through this with you.
Absolutely. But before we do get into that,
it's really exciting leading up in a couple of weeks actually,
no, we you have and I'm gonna bepartaking in the visual side of
(02:12):
things by watching with my eyeballs.
Your Come from away show. Yeah, Yeah.
How you feeling? Yeah, excited. 20 days until our
opening night, which is wild. Really excited.
It's been such a challenging process.
It's been an honour and I'm veryexcited to see it come together.
But I know that the next three weeks is going to be really full
(02:33):
on. Actually, the next 4 weeks is
going to be really fun. Yeah, but for those that don't
know this show, so Come From Away, I am not a massive musical
guy. I'm growing in that area, but
I'm not a massive musical guy. I've never seen a musical
before. I'd met you.
Anyway, when you first started telling me about Come From Away,
it was just, it sounded very bland.
I'm like, I don't get it, or whywould you make a musical about
(02:54):
that? But it's actually my favourite
musical. Now.
That's no joke. I'm not just saying that.
This is actually such an amazing, emotional, informative
musical. Fun.
Yeah, it's funny, fun, serious, sad.
It's like all the emotions. Like, I definitely shredded some
tears. Also shredded, shredded,
shredded, shredded. I shredded those tears.
(03:16):
I mean like. In just a really manly way,
yeah. Shredded them, man.
Cry, yeah, but tell us about it.So for those who don't know what
this show is. So it's about an island off of
Canada that suddenly had to takein 7000 people when September
11th happened because planes were diverted because the
American airspace was shut down and they're the population
(03:37):
literally doubled in a day. And yeah, when you explain it,
it doesn't quite capture how deep and just magical really the
musical is. But I was brainstorming some
promo stuff earlier for just forthe company, the theatre
company, and it's not a September 11th show.
It's actually a September 12th show.
Meaning it's it's not about whathappened on September 11th.
(04:01):
It's about everything that followed in this tiny island
where they had to care for thesepeople from all over the world
that were really scared and lostin some in really horrible
situations. It's also 12 cast members
playing over 30 characters with no prop, no break, no prop
changes, no scene changes, no wechange cost you one stage.
(04:21):
It all happens there. There's no intermission.
It's just bang right there. Incredibly impressive put
together execution of the thing.We can't think of the words
because that's how tired I am from doing rehearsals.
If you're local, we would love to have you there.
Come from away. The link will be in our bio, in
the show description, on our platforms, and in our posts as
well, so check it out. We would love to have you there.
(04:42):
Come and watch me be very nervous on stage.
Come, come watch. Come from away.
Anyway, that's Amy's update comefrom away, but now we're going
to dive into the episode Unmet needs.
Honey, we need to chat. So what is Unmet Needs?
(05:05):
Just a quick summary to introduce us to these stories.
Unmet needs in relationships areemotional, physical or
psychological needs that go unacknowledged, unexpressed or
unfulfilled over time. And unexpressed is really
important. I think that's key to a lot of
the stories that we hear and a lot of the stories we're going
to navigate in this episode. But yeah, unacknowledged,
(05:27):
unexpressed or unfulfilled. And they're not high maintenance
or neediness. They're more about the core
needs that people are are feeling a lack in or something's
missing there. It's it more speaks to core
baseline needs like feeling seen, feeling safe, feeling
loved, feeling connected, even if it's like coming out in a
surface level thing. They're sneaky.
(05:49):
Most couples don't argue about the unmet need itself.
They usually argue about the symptoms, like I've just said.
So common symptoms you might seepopping up in a relationship
when it's actually about a core need is snapping or irritation
over nothing, common quotations and nothing withdrawal or going
quiet or the stonewalling stuff.We've spoken about passive
(06:09):
aggressive comments usually indicating there's a little bit
of bitterness going on there, lack of desire or or intimacy,
feeling like roommates instead of partners.
And we've done a whole episode on that one as well.
Resentment or score keeping overexplaining or shutting down.
And that's just a few of the ways that that these things
might present in a relationship that might indicate that
(06:31):
although those feel like the things you have to tackle,
there's probably something more foundational going on.
And we also wanted to share about why unmet needs are hard
to name. Yeah, it's definitely something
that we've navigated through. So we'll have conversations and
sometimes we feel like we're going around circles.
Yeah. And then we pause and we come
back. It's like, all right.
Well, upon reflection, I can seeit's this thing.
(06:52):
So like, yeah, naming what we'refeeling can be really hard, but
we don't always know what we need.
We just feel off. Like it's just like, all right,
something's not right here. I don't know what it is, but
it's just not sitting easy with me.
We're taught to downplay our needs.
We don't want to be a burden to someone else and we expect our
partner to just know our needs and our wants, which is just
(07:15):
something we've spoken about before of like, that's just not,
not accurate. That's not so.
It's just so common. Also, we fear rejection or
making it worse by speaking up. And I've done that before.
Like where I will, I will shut down or I'll hold my tongue
because it's like I just can't be bothered making going through
this whole conversation or making it worse or whatever
(07:36):
else. And I I still have to keep
working on that. Yeah.
We had a big conversation about this, these things basically the
other day. So it's so common.
And a lot of the time I find personally at least, I can't
even figure out what the unmet need is until I've like dug,
dug, dug usually in a conversation because otherwise
it just goes round and round. But yeah, that's why they're
(07:56):
hard to name. That's why they're usually
unmet. That's why they usually are
sneaky. And let's dive into some stories
and see how they might be playing out for real life
people. So this is a first story from
Reddit. The title is am IA bad guy.
If we're telling my girlfriend, if she's going to just throw out
what I make her, she can cook for herself.
(08:19):
I30 male, live with my little brother 28 male and my
girlfriend 30 female and sometimes neither of us will
feel like cooking. I'm assuming the little brother
doesn't cook as well because he said neither.
So when the other goes to cook we ask them to cook for us too.
It's a system that works out. We normally cook for ourselves,
but sometimes we also cook a bigmeal for everyone in the house.
(08:40):
We also all pitch in for the grocery bill.
Most of what's in the house is for us to use and specific stuff
meant for just the person are marked and told in advance.
Lately when my girlfriend has asked me to cook her something
that I'm making for myself and Ihave, I wake up the next morning
to find most of it in the garbage.
I'm not a world class cook by any means but I don't burn my
(09:00):
food or under season it either. After the last time when she
asked me to cook or something I told her no, that I'm tired of
seeing food wasted not to mention the time I took to cook
it for her and that if she's going to keep throwing food away
like that she can just cook for herself.
My brother agrees with me on thesubject that the food waste is
annoying and frustrating to see as it needs to end.
(09:21):
Some of our friends agree too while others are saying I just
should cook for her anyways and calling me not a nice person for
letting her go hungry. There's something something I
just need to point out about this story before we dive in is
she lives with him and his brother.
Maybe they're really quick, that's great, but also they all
cook for themselves. Really interesting dynamic if
(09:41):
you're living with your partner.Yeah, in my head and there's
something there's, there's something off about this story.
I'm like why are they doing separate meals Like why aren't
they doing the same like? Why does she have to ask him to
cook if he's cooking? Why does she have to say, can
you cook me something? Yeah.
And why is that? They're set up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's just a very
(10:02):
interesting. Setup.
We each to their own. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
I think in this situation, it's not necessarily about the fact
that he doesn't want to cook it.Well, all right, sorry.
Because it's such a funny situation in from my from my
view, I'm like, well, I think he's just if he's got an issue,
you don't necessarily say, I'm not going to do that anymore
because you do this thing. It's like, no, what have the
(10:25):
conversation about her not throwing out the Food First.
You know, we don't see that partof the conversation.
And it's like, all right, cool, well, I'll do that, but maybe
I'll make you a smaller portion.Like that seems like such a easy
thing to navigate through, but Ifeel like it's just the unspoken
thing. Like we have these expectations
of like, well, you've done this bad thing now, Sorry, this is
(10:46):
your punishment. I'm not going to do that for you
anymore because you keep doing this bad thing.
But we'll, yeah, just have the conversation.
Like she should just know, yeah,that that's why that that he's
frustrated by that or hurt by that.
And yeah, I don't know. It'd be really nice to know.
And maybe they dive into it in the comments.
I'm not sure because I didn't save them here.
It would be really nice to know if she gave a response to that
(11:10):
or if they had had conversationsabout her throwing out the food
or if she had a reason for why she was throwing out the food.
Like who knows? If she's like, yeah, there's
there could be. I've got a few things that come
to mind about why someone may throw out food.
And some of them are because what wonderful.
Maybe he serves really big servings and she doesn't want to
like, I don't know, maybe she's trying to tell him that before
(11:31):
and he hasn't listened. Maybe she's got a history with
eating disorders. That can be people need to feel
like they are able to manage thefood on their plate.
And so there could be some stuffthere too.
I'm not well versed in that but let me have a look at the
comments and see if I see anything.
Something that's that I think this is just a bit in our
season, the moment though of if she's got any food allergies or
(11:54):
like so one of our boys, we've just been navigating through
gluten free stuff, right? And even tonight like today.
So we celebrate Mother's Day today we went out and we got a
nice pie and sausage roll, this nice bakery and had gluten in it
and like well, this is all new for us by the way, it's not like
we've been doing this for years.We.
(12:15):
Are not educated in this. We're not educated in this.
And then tonight, like his stomach is really, really off.
He's really struggling. And so, but again, depending on
how long these guys have been together for, she could have
some insecurities around that aswell.
Like, yeah, there's so many different.
Reasons. Yeah.
So I had a quick look at the comments just to see.
And someone said why does she? Has she given an explanation for
(12:37):
why she throws out the food? And he said, I've asked her, she
just tells me she doesn't like how it tasted though I've told
her what I'm cooking before I make some for her.
So that's when she could have said she didn't want it, which
makes sense. And then someone said why
doesn't she just put it away as leftovers?
And he said, I honestly wish I knew we have a Tupperware for
it, but she just throws it out instead.
To be fair, if it was put up as leftovers I wouldn't be so
(12:59):
frustrated. So yeah, interesting.
Could be patterns at family likehistory, like how they did stuff
in their family. Could be like I I get kind of
weird about old food. It kind of just if the idea in
my head really throws me. I eat things that I shouldn't
eat. You're a fast yeah.
Because I just can't stop thinking about it.
Yeah. So who knows what is going on,
(13:20):
But there is definitely the unspoken.
I think there's like a big question mark around why it
happens. They need to have that
conversation for him to just be like, she just says she doesn't
like it. And that's like the extent of
their conversation is bizarre again to me.
Yeah. So if you're new here, the what
we do in these topics is not necessarily cast out judgement
on how they deal with it or the situation or whatever else.
(13:42):
What we do is try, try and unpack how we would have liked
to have that conversation. So it just gives us a, it's
essentially just practise for us, like how can we grow in our
communication? And so we're looking at other
people's stories and say like, cool, well this is how I would
want to receive it or any would want to receive it or what would
want to be trying to get out of it.
Yeah. So definitely there's patterns
(14:04):
of not communicating happening and playing out like him not him
making the call and not having that conversation, her not
explaining clearly. There's obviously some kind of
miscommunication and whatever the reason that is there.
I think they just need to have some conversations around it
because it sounds like she her throwing his food out.
And I can understand why this would feel this way because she
(14:25):
doesn't like the taste of taste of it would make me feel like,
but you asked me to make this like the what?
That's kind of like throwing that back in his face kind of
thing. Like it's a rejection of his
gift to her and his time. It's also a waste of his time
and it's a waste of their resources if they're a fair.
Like they're a household that share those resources.
So I can understand how it wouldfeel offensive.
(14:48):
Yeah, I don't like these including his brother in the
conversation. Like if we if you and I lived
together with one of your sisters and you started talking
to your sisters about one of my habits, I'll be frustrated.
Well, especially if it was before you had we had even had
the conversation properly, if this had been a repetitive thing
that he's talked to her, he's talked to her, he's talked to
(15:08):
her and he's like, I don't know what else to do.
Yeah, like, what else do I do? And then I can understand making
a like harder stance on it or maybe being like talking to his
people that are close to him and.
And the. Other thing too, you mentioned
before about like it could be something that she's inherited
from my family. Lots of family patterns.
Him and his brother have the same family part.
That's right. So that's already like.
(15:30):
A bias. A bias, yeah, 100%.
It'd be different to another housemate that's a bit more
neutral. Yeah, yeah.
Your family almost always is going to have some kind of bias
to support, which is beautiful in some ways.
But anyway, I think it sounds like she may be.
Well, both of them are a little bit conflict avoidant, I would
say. Like they're just kind of acting
out of their frustrations and not really working together on
(15:51):
it. But I understand his frustration
as well, right? Like, so if, if this is a
constant thing where I made foodand I I like I made you food and
you would throw it out like thatwould be hard.
You know, it's, I would feel, I wouldn't feel the value and the
actions that I was doing for you.
Yeah. And like we said before, these
(16:11):
are about unmet needs. So is this just the food or is
there a bigger thing, a bigger story that plays out for him
that feeds into this rejection of his presence or is like?
Yeah, well, it could be his his input into the relationship,
right. Like, so you could also look at
it as like, well, this is me contributing to our relationship
and it's met with rejection. Like they could be.
(16:33):
Again, there's so many layers todifferent actions.
And again, we've just been having a conversation this week
about things that we're navigating through.
And there's so many layers to something that you bring up
when, when we, when you and I talk, we have our topic that
we're trying to discuss, but then we also need to discuss all
the layers that comes with that too, because we're realising
(16:54):
actually, we're triggered now. So where's that trigger coming
from? So there's so many things
wrapped up in it and it's like, cool.
I feel like for him to put it upon Reddit, it's going to be more
than just, hey, I cook food and my girlfriend is checking it
out. I feel like there's that sense
of rejection coming in there, orsomething deeper, more than just
a frustration. Yeah.
So I think if this was us, if this was me navigating that and
(17:16):
you'd been throwing out my food,which you would just never
because it's food. But if if this was me, I think I
would really want to find time to sit down and be like, why are
you throwing it out? Is there a reason you're
throwing it out? Is it just that you don't like
the flavour of it? And if it is expressing to you,
from my perspective, that's kindof offensive because I put this
(17:38):
effort into it and you just Chuck it like I would be much
happier if you don't really wantit for you to just say, no, I
don't really want it. Or put it in a container and
keep it for us so that we've gotthe leftovers or something.
But having the conversations andinstead of assuming and then
reacting out of that assumption,having the conversation with
curiosity like we talk about allthe time and figuring out why
(18:00):
this might be sitting so poorly with you guys.
Anyway, this is a good opportunity.
I've added some prompts in for each of these stories as well to
just make it a little more practical for us as listeners to
think about how this might play out for us in our relationships.
So just a question to ponder. Where in your relationship have
you stopped offering something because you didn't feel seen or
(18:22):
appreciated? And if that's happened, has it
been a communicated thing or is it one of those little subtle,
almost passive aggressive reactions and punishments to
your partner's reaction? A couple things that in this
kind of situation you can use asa couple to work through is
assuming positive intent opener.So when you go to have the
(18:43):
conversation, instead of being like, you're wasting my time,
you're throwing out this food and like you're just being
offensive and kind of coming outthe gate with an assumption of
negative intent. You can come out the gate with,
hey, I'm wondering if maybe there's something about the food
that I'm not aware of or like, is there something else going on
for you about food? Like why?
(19:03):
Why does this happen? And assuming a positive intent
in their actions, even if that doesn't end up being the case,
it's an easier way to gently introduce a conversation.
The other one is a mutual reset question and that's where you
decide we're both going to put some ground rules out there to
help you when you're navigating this.
She might not want to finish food, might not like the
(19:23):
flavour. That's OK, we've got these
ground rules in place to help us.
Yeah, that's a good, that's a good one to discuss.
And again, it's not as huge dramatic topic, but they're all
good topics for us to look through and just evaluate and
assess ourselves as well. How are we handling different
situations, big or small? And they're important to to be
(19:43):
aware of, But we're going to keep diving into more in a bit.
For example, we're going to do aphones topic and being present
in relationships topic. But we wanted to take a bit of a
pause here. So if you're enjoying this
episode, we just want to give you a little bit of a space to
quickly share this with someone else that might get value out of
it. And if you are someone that's
received this from someone else,that's amazing that that's
(20:05):
really encouraging because this person has been thinking of you,
your relationship, the value in.Your relationship and your
communication in your relationship.
So that's, I think those really,really special moves receive
episodes from other people and so forth.
So do that now, take this time, do that now, and we're going to
jump into another unmet need. Great.
All right, so the second story is, am I overreacting for
(20:28):
considering breaking up with my boyfriend over this detail?
My boyfriend, My boyfriend? What'd you say?
Juicy, juicy. My boyfriend, let's call him
John, he's 20 and I female, 19, just had our first argument.
I myself have a very strict ruleto put my phone away when in
company of other people and I really value to surround myself
with people who think and act alike.
(20:50):
However, John is constantly on his phone and it really started
to annoy me. We live an hour train ride away
so usually when we visit each other we also stay the night.
Being together for two days after a busy week can be
exhausting, so I totally get that at some point he wants some
alone time. We're both autistic by the way
so need a little bit more and I really wouldn't mind if he would
(21:11):
do something for himself, even if it's just for two hours.
But he doesn't communicate that he's overwhelmed and just grabs
his phone whenever he feels likeit and it's hard for me to tell
why he's on his phone and when it's OK for me to ask for his
attention. Last week I took him out on a
date and after we had dinner he was on his phone and I made a
bit of a passive aggressive comment about me not liking it.
(21:31):
I know it was wrong and I apologise later on.
What I didn't know is that he had an emergency with his group
project that needed to be fixed right away.
Totally understandable, but he didn't tell me so at the moment
I just thought he was being really rude.
Anyway, we are in a fight because I don't have the same
values in terms of phone use in each other's company.
I don't like it when people are randomly on their phone and he
(21:52):
thinks it's stupid. He needs to give a reason why
he's on his phone. I did say out of anger, but I do
mean it. I don't want to be in a
relationship with someone who's constantly on their phone and he
thinks it's a stupid detail to throw away everything we have.
Honestly I never get angry but just writing this makes me
really upset. I don't need to have attention
every second we are together buthim grabbing his phone out of
(22:14):
nowhere while I talk to him justmakes me feel like he doesn't
care. And when he grabs it when
there's a silence it also makes everything 10 times more awkward
for me. If he needs to check on
something important that's fine,but just tell me just a simple
wait a SEC, this is important and is enough.
If he's overwhelmed and needs alone time, that's all right
too, but just don't grab it because it's there.
Phones. There's, there's quite a lot in
(22:36):
this, like if she brought out aswell for herself about how she
made a passive aggressive comment rather than just a
discussion through it. There doesn't seem to be any
questions exploring that. You know, she's not really
sharing more about why it's a value for her that it just is.
And she's not digging deeper into why it's on his phone as
much. And like, and she even said that
(22:57):
she needs to like be more curious rather than
accusational. I, I get it.
I, I genuinely get it. Like I get the, I get into that
point of like, if you know me, Iget this idea in my head.
It's like, I want to work on this.
I'm going to do these things andput these things in place and
then I do it and I'll be quite strict with it and so forth.
(23:18):
And then I'll be confused with like, why isn't anyone else
doing this? And since this, I don't know, I
don't know why my brain does that, but I, I just had this
expectation that everyone else needs to be doing what I'm
doing. I've been challenged by this.
So why isn't everyone else? And this has been a cause of
many of our arguments as well. And so I do understand her
perspective, but at the same time, I still I understand her
(23:41):
perspective, but I because of through experience, I understand
the danger of this perspective and this view without that
evaluation, if she's willing to throw away the relationship over
this, I'm like, well, girl, you're probably not ready for
relationships. Well, they're very young, yeah,
19 and 20s you. And that is where you're
learning. You're starting to be like, oh,
(24:01):
I'm relationship isn't just about who I have a crush on.
Relationships is about who I cansee myself living with.
But we've spoken about like evenin the last week's episode,
we're going to talk about attachment styles.
We've spoken about how being together has changed our
approaches to things and you change because you grow
(24:23):
together. And one of the things that we
had this argument about, which was after I made this, this
episode was about phones, but also was about just like at one
point I was like, we're so different.
And it's really sometimes very exhausting to navigate how
different we are when we processthings really differently.
But the beauty in it is that we when you're intentional in that
(24:46):
space, doesn't really matter howdifferent you are.
I don't think you even like if you've got different values, I
don't think that's necessarily ared flag because you can have
conversations and grow through that and you are intentional and
you challenge each other and stretch each other.
And right now it sounds like this is a value for her.
(25:08):
Fair enough value. Totally fair enough value to
have a conversation about. Doesn't sound like she's had
that conversation. Like you said, sounds like it's
only come out in a in a passive aggressive comment.
And if it's anything like what we were communicating about,
potentially he also knows that she's annoyed about it.
And it's the comment might be one thing, but he might already
(25:28):
have picked up on a vibe. Who knows?
I don't know. And so for her, yeah, for her to
break up or consider breaking upwith him over this instance
without having at least a littlebit of conversation to see if
they can find a common ground orput like some rules in to make
them feel comfortable and safe and accepted is drastic.
I don't, I don't think that's the best way to go about it
(25:50):
because I think without too muchconversation, you can find a
really common ground, which is that that makes her feel
unloved, obviously. And the deeper need that we've
talked about is it's not just about the phone, It's about what
that phone is telling her. And from his perspective, her
passive aggressiveness is probably not just about the
phone. It's about what that is telling
him and what that is telling them about how they are loved or
(26:14):
cared for, seen or appreciated or given space and that kind of
thing in their relationship. We see, we see so much.
I'm not sure if it's in movies or reality shows.
I don't watch reality shows, butI've seen it somewhere where I
hear about it like, you know, people are like it's.
Probably me telling you about the show.
Probably, yeah. It's like, oh, we don't have
anything in common, so we wouldn't work.
We're not a good match and all this sort of stuff.
(26:35):
And I think, you know, our conversation this week has been,
you know, you mentioned. So it can be so hard because we
are so different, but man, I like we have these huge
strengths because we're so different.
Like I don't think differences mean that we're not a good match
for each other. I think it just means we have
(26:57):
different things to navigate through.
Some people will have like trauma, more trauma that they
have to navigate through and thetrauma that they've never been
bringing into their relationship.
They've had, you know, some, some couples will be like, well,
I'm also solo driven for so longnow I've got to work more in a
team like, you know, we as a couple and stuff like that.
There's so many different thingsthat people will be bringing
(27:20):
into that relationship. They have to work through Ours
is that we are so different. The way that we process stuff,
the way that we view things, theexpectations we have, the values
we have, they're all different and it makes it hard,
absolutely. But if it wasn't this, if we
were very similar, we would haveother things that would be
navigating through that were difficult and challenge just as
(27:42):
difficult and challenging as well.
So I just, I, that's a just something I, I hear and I'm
like, that's not an excuse to not go through with it.
What I think is an where I wouldsee is like, all right, cool,
that makes sense to not go through with it is the
unwillingness to work on those differences and those challenges
together. Yeah, it's that is exactly it.
(28:03):
And that's the case, I would say, across the board.
And that's why we're all about communication on this podcast.
Your willingness to explore things will almost always make a
way if you can be willing. It is the being met with
unwillingness that there's only so much that that can only so
far that that can go. And that's where we really try
to focus on what you you can do,like what your ownership of that
(28:26):
can, can be. But yeah, your willingness and
the intentionality that like we are stretched because we're
different. We're stretched in terms of
like, we have these tensions sometimes and they come out for
the most part pretty good. And then they'll be attention
because we're like, oh, it's just like a hiccup.
But then if we were really similar, the tension we would
probably have is having to, we don't have one of us that
(28:50):
functions that way. So when we're navigating things
outside of our comfort zone, both of us would have to learn
how to. So it's just like you said,
every couple's got a different equation of things that they
navigate. And, and I don't, I agree, I
don't think it's a recipe for disaster or red flag.
It just is what it is and you work on that's like the
challenge you tackle. And when you're in a
relationship and you have commitment and you've got
(29:11):
intentionality, that challenge is OK.
And this is definitely not especially on like this scale or
this surface level. And obviously there could be
more, but definitely not a like a big red flag or anything like
that. This is a conversation that can
be had and there can be so many things going on.
So she said he's autistic. Like, who knows what he.
(29:35):
They both are. Yeah.
Like, and. And each of them could be
picking up on different sensory inputs than each other and just
be completely different, like readings of the situation.
Regardless of their neurodivergence, there could be
a completely different reading of the situation.
And. And if he's an introvert and
he's got someone in his space, like, I totally resonate with
that. Like, I do need space.
(29:56):
And they're young and they've got other things like he's got
this group project. There's other commitments.
They're not fully committed to each other, living with each
other. So it's not quite the same like
intensity. Yeah.
So many things that could be happening.
And who knows what has happened for her.
We could be family culture, could be an experience with
somebody else, could be a feeling of rejection.
(30:17):
I don't know what's going on with her to have that value.
Good for her that she's got the value because it's, I think it's
a really healthy one. But having no conversation about
it is not going to help. Considering breaking up with him
about it. That's not going to fix that
problem for you because you're going to have to navigate that
problem, that conversation, thatvalue difference with somebody
else on the track. It's just a conversation that
(30:38):
needs to be had regardless of who you're with.
Something we finished on though,in our conversation, like we
identified, you know, we're so different and we identified that
again and we, we address, we, wespoke it out loud.
It is hard. It is hard to navigate that.
And we sort of looked through too of like, well, when because
the last time we had a big argument before this one was
(31:00):
when we're renovating our house,getting ready to sell for this
house. And what we identified, we don't
see a pattern. We've got to explore and try and
find that pattern. The pattern that we discovered
was when we keep missing each other, but when we're busy,
we're so busy and we don't have that quality time together, this
sparks up because we haven't hadthat intentional time to talk
(31:21):
and just to, you know, just justto be and have the conversation
because we just haven't been able to have that
intentionality. So you've been out a lot for
your rehearsals. I've been out for volleyball and
we've just been very stressed with the kids at the moment and
we've been missing each other like just in terms of proximity.
We haven't had that quality timetogether.
And so I think that's been a biglearning for us is called OK,
(31:45):
we've had the argument, what is the pattern?
Why is this happened again and what can we do about it?
And that's the conversations we're continuing having
continually having now. So it's not finished, but I
think that's something that's really important is if you guys
find yourself in those patterns of disagreements and arguments,
trying to identify that. And then the unmet need?
(32:06):
What is the unmet need exactly? Why does this keep repeating?
What, what can we do about it? They're really important parts
of the conversation. You and I spoke, I think it was
in the last episode as well, about, you know, fighting's not
bad. It's fighting well.
You know, we need to learn to fight well, and we don't.
You and I don't always fight well, but it's we do the after
(32:29):
part well, you know, and that's,that's what we keep on growing
in. So yeah, don't shy away from
those conversations. Just because they're
uncomfortable at the beginning of your relationship.
Like this is these are the kind of conversation that build a
relationship. Yeah, that is so true.
And it's it. There's something that we've
done before in leadership training.
And it's also a little bit of a tactic that I use in coaching.
(32:50):
And it's like, it's like asking the why and then asking the why
and then asking the why. And then someone will give you
an answer. Like why did you throw my food
out? I didn't like the flavour of it.
I don't like the taste. Cool.
Why did you think why was that enough to throw it out?
Like because I don't really my family never keep kept
leftovers. I don't really like leftover
(33:12):
food. Cool.
Why like, and you just like dig and and you'll eventually like
we had a massive conversation and there was a bazillion things
in that conversation that were valid.
But at the end that summary point was like, oh, that's
probably the foundational need that's not being met.
So asking this question like, why are you on your phone when
we're together? Not maybe not saying it that
way, but you know, asking the why and then they'll give an
(33:35):
answer and then asking a why andthen they'll give an answer and
do it in a gentle, not obnoxiouslike why, why, why, like our
kids. But there's.
So many layers. And this is a prompt like this
is a really good time to to ask yourself, do your, do you, do
you and your partner have mismatched expectations about
together time? Because if you haven't spent
(33:58):
that time together talking aboutwhat together time looks like,
it could just be mismatched expectations of what that's
going to be. And like love languages play
into this too, like quality time.
What is quality time for you? Is that important to you?
What does that mean having that conversation?
And have you ever talked about what presence looks like for
each of you? Presence as in being present,
not giving presents with that too.
(34:21):
Yeah. And then some tools that I
reckon these guys could implement is pre frame
transitions. I'm just going to zone out on my
phone for a bit. I'm feeling a bit overloaded.
So saying this is what I'm doingand This is why so that she's
not left there. Be like OK, like what's
happening? And then another one is a check
in ritual. What kind of vibe are you
(34:41):
needing tonight? Connection or just coexisting,
like before you're hanging out or when you first get together,
especially when you're not living together, What kind of
vibe are you needing? Are you exhausted and you just
need to like be together but nothanging out?
Super quality time? Or do you want to be really
connecting and making the most of the time together just to get
(35:02):
those expectations on the same page?
And I feel like with a few conversations this would really
iron out for itself. Yeah, another good, another good
conversation to have. Again, it's those things where
it's like these irritations thatwe have, we we put them off, you
know, we don't know how to navigate through it.
Sometimes we don't even know from ourselves.
Like why is this irritating me so much?
Self evaluation before going into the conversation is really
(35:24):
important also. But in a second we're gonna jump
into one of the biggest topics in this area, the dead bedroom.
But first, just a quick pause. If you love this podcast, if you
want to support us and in this podcast, we would just love for
you to take some time like share, subscribe.
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(35:44):
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(36:06):
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We just want to say thank you somuch for all those that have
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jump on to that bandwagon as well.
Would really appreciate it. Let's get back into it all.
Right, here we go, the jet bedroom.
Yeah, I was. I was going to get like, I was
(36:28):
going to get like BOM, BOM, BOM.I was like, what?
And then I just joined them all.Yeah, and then your throat made
a noise. All right, so this story is
called at what point if your needs aren't being met, is it
time to walk away? So for the past year and a half
or so, the intimacy has pretty much been non existent.
We do have a toddler, so I'm aware that things would change
after she was born, but not to this extent.
(36:50):
We've been together for almost five years and up until our
daughter, sex was constant everyday, almost multiple times even.
The passion is like nothing I'veever experienced.
Good for them, you know. Well done.
Well done before. We read on.
What gender do you think this writer is?
Male. Female.
It's a female what just to throw?
OK, 'cause it's actually shiftedmy perspective now.
(37:12):
I know now it's nothing. I've brought it up.
I've asked maybe if we need to seek a doctor's opinion, maybe
if it's something underlying. He just shows 0 interest.
He gives excuses to turn me downif I don't attempt to initiate
the once a month probably wouldn't happen.
I feel like a broken record. I feel like I'm practically
begging for the man to give it to me.
(37:33):
Yes, we have stressors like everybody else, but the past
year and a half I've tried it all.
I bought toys to try and spice things up.
He was actually offended by this.
I opened up conversations and nothing.
At what point is it fair for me to say my needs are not being
met and I don't want a dead bedroom.
Intimacy is very important to me.
It's starting to affect my overall confidence now.
(37:53):
Physical touch is my love language and I have a high sex
drive and I want to be desired by my husband.
I don't want to call it quits. I love and adore this man.
However, I don't want to be my husband's roommate anymore.
Unmet needs. OK, so this is I'm looking, I'm
going to look at this from 2 perspectives and I'm glad you
actually told me that this is a female as well.
Reading through that because it really shifted my perspective,
(38:15):
the 1st perspective I had of like, all right man, you need to
understand like, you know what goes through like the.
This is when you thought it was a guy.
Yeah. I'm like, you know, the hormones
are going through the labour, all this sort of stuff, all of
it can all have an effect in this area.
Yeah. Something that's not very spoken
(38:36):
about, like that's not spoken about much.
I've mentioned on this podcast quite a lot though, is the
effects of having a baby can have on a man.
Yeah. Right mental health.
So mental health, so it's so research shows A1 in 10 dads
suffer from post Natal depression, 56% of dads won't do
anything about it and 60% of dads in general see post Natal
(38:59):
anxiety and depression for men as a sign of weakness.
So there's a whole stigma aroundit as well.
So I'm not saying that this is what this guy has, but what I'm
saying is that guys are a lot less likely to get help for
ourselves, address the help thatwe need or seek out or evaluate
or whatever else. Like this is something, it's a
(39:20):
real issue for men, especially in Australia.
I can't speak about it in other countries, but this stigma
around, you know, I need to be the strong guy.
I need to not show emotion. I need, you know, don't show
weakness sort of stuff. But it shoots us in the foot
because the people that like thepeople that it gets affected the
most is actually not us. We might be struggling with what
we're struggling with, but it affects everyone around us,
(39:42):
especially those are the closestto us.
So this is a real issue for man of not speaking things through
and addressing their stuff. I could easily I could see that
this guy could be struggling with his own identity in view of
like, why do I have a low sex drive?
Like why am I struggling with this?
And then with that can come guilt, which fuels that whole
thing. This is a a very surface level 0
(40:05):
perspective from his side of like several is 0 input from
context. Thank you from his side into
this conversation. But I just wanted to say that
because if there's any guys thatare relating to what I've just
shared there, it's really important.
You do something about it, you can reach out to us and we can,
we can actually share some resources on to you and it be
(40:25):
anonymous. You can reach out to
organisations like we can give you organisations to reach out
to and stuff. So do that.
That's the bare meme. I just wanted to say that
because something that's not spoken about much, I'm very
passionate about this area and this is what we do in my work as
well. So the other element that I can
also relate to in this as well is for there, there could be a
(40:47):
bunch of different things going on for this guy as well.
It could be, I don't really knowhow to go into this, like cut
into this. But what came into my mind
straight away was when I struggled a lot with intimacy
was when I had a pornography addiction.
So that's another thing that my mind goes to is because so for
me, I've got, I've had a historyof addictions, either drugs,
(41:09):
alcohol, cigarettes, whatever else.
So it just kept on transferring through to these different
things. And, and when we were married,
when we got married, I was my, that transferred through
pornography had a direct impact on my mood, my mental health and
my intimacy and my drive. And that's been a huge thing
that we've had to navigate through.
(41:30):
But this is something I I go to,I'm not saying that he that he
is, but I could see this being something that, you know, could
be sparking on him as well. Yeah, it's some that's a kind of
underlying part of this is therecould be so many things going on
and the conversations need to behad.
The hard part is that she has said she's brought it up.
She said she's brought it up, She's asked just if they need to
(41:51):
see a doctor. Maybe it's something underlying.
He just shows 0 interest. I'd be interested to know what
he what his input into the conversations were when she
brought it up. Excuses to turn me down if I
don't attempt to initiate them just wouldn't happen.
And they've got stressors. And she's tried all of it.
She's brought toys to try and make it what I think is
interesting. And I feel like immediately this
(42:13):
would have been the case if thiswas from a male's perspective.
We would have been like, yeah, but have you thought about how
she's feeling? And I actually think that's
relevant here, too. I don't know.
Obviously, we don't have the context, but she's talking about
how she's tried everything. She initiates, she talks about
it. She's like, do we need to see a
doctor? She bought toys, and that's all.
I understand what she's trying to do, but that seemingly is all
(42:35):
symptom spotting and I wonder ifshe's explored that deeper stuff
the the mental health, if she's asked him what's going on, if
she's asked him why like she's she mentions that we all have
stressors like everybody else, but that's very kind of
dismissive sounding or more likegeneralising sounding probably
than I like. I think if this was you and I, I
would be like, what is happening?
(42:57):
Is he burnt out? Is he, like you said, personal
depression, male personal depression or just depression,
like mental health stuff going on?
Is there an addiction thing going on?
Is there something going on thathe's feeling ashamed about?
Something else? Is there kind of an identity
identity thing going on? He's now a dad and the stress of
being a dad and providing for your family, assuming that's
what he's doing. Like if he's working for his
(43:18):
family and just being a dad and his identity in how he is a dad,
like that changes how you see yourself.
And so there could be so many things.
And I feel like if this was a man writing in people's
reactions would be like, you don't understand what it's like
to be a mum, to be going throughyour bodies changing, to be
going through your roles changing, your identity's gone
and your interests are different.
(43:38):
You might have mental health, like I feel like that would be
listed. So it's fascinating that that's
not like the first thing that comes to mind just because it's.
Well, that's where my mind went,yeah.
I mean for myself. Yeah, because it's, it's so many
things, like we don't talk aboutthat sort of stuff.
We don't talk at that level amongst for for men in general
and men and ourselves don't talkabout it.
(43:59):
Like we're a lot likely to go get help for ourselves.
We're more likely to go help someone else.
You know what I mean? We're very quick to help.
We're very slow to get help. It's interesting as well because
her title is at what point if your needs aren't being met, is
it time to walk away? And I think that angle is it
probably misses the mark for me because yes, it would be hard if
(44:23):
you were like, this is the rest of our lives.
What am I like, is this just going to be the rest of our
lives? And like, when do I walk away?
But it's, it's, I just feel likethere's like a missing piece of
like I'm worried about my husband.
Something's not right. Yeah, it's quite interesting.
It's like, all right, because I feel like there's missing
information here. I don't think you can look at
these stories of face value, butit's where it's like, all right,
(44:44):
well, I'm not, you know, I'm notgetting the physical attention
that I'm needing. So this isn't the relationship
for me. Which is very as much
summarising what she's saying, but yeah, that.
Generalising it, but it's like that's that sounds very intense
like that you've got a daughter,like a kid together.
I don't know, I don't know if she said it was a daughter, but
you know, I've been together forfive years got a kid together
(45:07):
and it's like all right now thatyou don't get this one element.
It's like now is the time to walk away.
That sounds so intense to me, but there.
So in this as well, we're looking at her unmet need.
And we've been kind of talking about this too, though it's
like, well, I'm seeing 2 unmet needs here is like she's got a
physical unmet need. We have no idea what his is.
(45:27):
And that's, that's something that needs to be explored.
Like there is an unmet need heresomewhere.
It's affecting him in some way and that needs to be explored.
Yeah, and I would actually say hers is probably not.
That's the other thing with sex related needs which are very
common. Like you'll hear, there's so
many stories I wrote it about this, but it, it's like I need
(45:48):
sex and, and that's what they put that down to.
But I actually don't think that that's the core need that she
has that's unmet. If this was me and it has been
the, the benefit, I guess if that's what I want to say is
that we've actually both been onboth sides of this.
So there has been a time where Ifelt really rejected and really
unwanted by you. And that need wasn't, it felt
(46:10):
like the need that was being unmet was the physical intimacy.
The real need that was being unmet was my like, sense of who
like you or how you thought of me.
Were you even attracted to me? Did you even want me?
My sense of rejection from you and that kind of thing not being
good enough for you, all those things.
And even it's even easy to miss it for her yourself.
(46:35):
So I don't even know if she is recognising.
She does say, you know, I want to be wanted by my husband.
She says intimacy is very important to me.
It's starting to affect my overall confidence now.
So she's identifying, it's affecting her confidence.
I think there's needs underneaththat.
And when we have gone through these seasons on both sides, the
(46:56):
thing we've found is a person that's been struggling, it
doesn't make it easier to just know how much the other person
needs it like that. It actually is like a, it's more
pressure and shame and like build up and it's a little bit
like disabling in some ways. But if we had the, and when we
have had the conversation about what it's been meaning to each
(47:16):
other, that makes it easier. So if they're having a
conversation and she's like, I feel like I'm not wanted by you.
I don't feel wanted. There's like deeper emotional
connection identity type needs that are being missed here.
I feel like if she's able to communicate it on that level, it
takes away a little bit of the pressure about the physical
(47:37):
intimacy and allows them to focus on what emotional intimacy
is not being met. And the more that you focus on,
I just like, why wouldn't you doit?
I just want to do it. I just want to do it.
I'm going to buy these toys and make it like, whatever.
It's not going to make someone who's not in a good place feel
better about doing it. Like that's not how it works,
unfortunately. So I think, yeah, I think you're
right. There's so many different sides
(47:57):
to it. It sounds like there's something
there for him, whatever it mightbe, and there needs to be a
gentle curiosity in navigating that conversation.
There's definitely something there.
She recognises that it, it seems, but to see what would
come out for her if she was to dig a bit deeper and what would
happen for them if she was able to communicate on that level.
And so a little prompt out of the story for us to think about
(48:19):
is, if you brought something up many times and nothing has
changed, what do you usually do next?
Do you withdraw? Do you push harder or do you
pretend it doesn't matter? What would it look like to name
the real cost and what would it look like to dig deeper in those
kind of why activities and what's going on underneath A
couple of tools. No pressure truth share.
So you could say I'm not trying to fix this.
(48:40):
I just want to share where I'm at emotionally and hear what
where you are too so you can take off.
We're not fixing it in this conversation.
We're just talking about it to kind of remove some of the
pressure he might be feeling. Second is an intimacy wish list.
Each person wishes writes down small ways they could feel
close, not just sexual. Writing down ways to feel
connected intimately without it being physical, to remove the
(49:02):
physical pressure of it all together for a little while and
just connect. Like we said after our
discussion, a lot of the time, alot of things ease up when you
finally are connecting. And if they haven't had time to
connect, then some of that stuffmight be made easier just by
connecting in different ways. So Blaze just popped out to a
child classic, but I just wantedto finish on this note.
(49:23):
When you name a need calmly and clearly, you're teaching your
brain that it's also safe to take up space.
You're also helping that become a culture in your relationship,
a muscle that is strengthened inyour relationship.
And it might be uncomfortable atfirst, but it's better for you
and it's better for your partnerand it's better for your
relationship in the long run. And it rewires old patterns.
You're able to communicate aboutneeds and then have the
(49:45):
conversation with curiosity and grace.
Outside of that, it actually starts to rewire your brains to
navigate that better. So definitely important to be
addressing. We're going to dive into a quick
reality check corner. Firstly, a personal reflection
prompt. Is there a need I've been
downplaying or hoping my partnerwill just notice because I'm
afraid it'll seem silly, selfishor it will start a fight?
(50:07):
Also, is there a need my partnerhas expressed that I have
quietly forgotten to honour? And what would it look like to
name that need without shame andto own it instead of waiting for
it to be guessed? I think this is really
important. We make so many assumptions, we
expect our partners to just knowthings, and that's just not the
most constructive way of navigating relationship.
(50:27):
It's not the way that is going to bring about the best results.
Here's a quick challenge you canimplement straight away.
Pick one small unmet need, something simple like alone
time, verbal appreciation, or shared planning and name it this
week. Keep it in one sentence, say it
calmly, say it gently and say itfor you so you can try something
like it helps me stay present when I know I've got even a
(50:48):
small moment planned together. Or I realised I feel more secure
when I hear what you're thinking, even if it's just a
little check in. So you're naming a need in a
gentle, constructive, assuming positive intent kind of way and
just to finish on a final future, future pace.
And this is just an activity that helps us to anchor into
some kind of future goals, moving towards motivational
(51:09):
picture and then borrow those feelings to help us motivate us
to work towards the things we'reworking towards.
So just close your eyes and we'll take a second to do this
one. I want you to visualise what we
read out. Imagine this a few weeks from
now. You're saying what you need
calmly and clearly without over explaining or hoping that
they've guessed right. Not everything has changed, but
something and you feels lighter.You're no longer stuffing it
(51:31):
down or spiralling after every conversation.
You're showing up with honesty and self respect.
And that shift, it's reshaping the tone of your relationship.
It's not perfect, it's just real.
It's more connected. How does that feel?
What's different in your body? What's different in your breath,
in the way you hold yourself? Let that version of you, the one
(51:53):
that speaks calmly with clarity,help you today move towards what
you're wanting to work for in your relationship.
All right guys, thank you so much for being with us to talk
about unmet needs. We will chat to you very soon.
Have a good week.
Your willingness to explore things will almost always make a
way. Yeah, if you can be willing.
It is the being met with unwillingness that there's only
so far that that can go. Yeah.
Hey guys, welcome back to Honey.We Need to chat.
We are the podcasts all about communication in a relationship.
We believe that when communication dies in a
(00:22):
relationship, bad things happen.Yes, so we chat.
We do. We chat about it.
Yeah. And do you know what is really
cool just by the fact that you're listening to this
episode, that tells us somethingabout who you are as well.
And that tells us that you are passionate about having an
enriched relationship. You're passionate about
communication, you're passionateabout the type of partner that
you are or you want to be in relationship and you're willing
(00:43):
to be challenged in growth. So we're so excited to have you
here because this topic is huge.We're going to be diving into
something really important for relationships today.
It's all about unmet needs, the sneaky ones and the subtle ones
that kind of just sit there and we don't really even necessarily
identify them for ourselves. And unfortunately they often
lead to some big blow UPS. So today's topic is heavy.
It's important and it's the exact type of content that
(01:06):
people like us, you and us really love to tackle to enrich
us as partners and is a Reddit episode.
So we're going to dive into somereal stories about this stuff.
We're going to listen to examples of real life people
navigating unmet needs in a variety of ways and workshop
them together to see how we would tackle them and see what
practical ways can come out of that.
(01:26):
So today we're going to be exploring a few stories that
unpack the really quiet unmet needs that we don't always
communicate about, but do often show up in the gaps or in the
heated moments. They kind of blow up in
arguments. And by the end, we're going to
be sitting with a story that is pretty common, I think, in
relationships, one of the most common unmet needs that a lot of
(01:48):
couples are afraid to tackle. So stick around for that one.
If intimacy, distance or feelingunwanted is something that
you've tackled and something youwant to be challenged and
strengthened in, this is for you.
You're not alone and we are hereto chat through this with you.
Absolutely. But before we do get into that,
it's really exciting leading up in a couple of weeks actually,
no, we you have and I'm gonna bepartaking in the visual side of
(02:12):
things by watching with my eyeballs.
Your Come from away show. Yeah, Yeah.
How you feeling? Yeah, excited. 20 days until our
opening night, which is wild. Really excited.
It's been such a challenging process.
It's been an honour and I'm veryexcited to see it come together.
But I know that the next three weeks is going to be really full
(02:33):
on. Actually, the next 4 weeks is
going to be really fun. Yeah, but for those that don't
know this show, so Come From Away, I am not a massive musical
guy. I'm growing in that area, but
I'm not a massive musical guy. I've never seen a musical
before. I'd met you.
Anyway, when you first started telling me about Come From Away,
it was just, it sounded very bland.
I'm like, I don't get it, or whywould you make a musical about
(02:54):
that? But it's actually my favourite
musical. Now.
That's no joke. I'm not just saying that.
This is actually such an amazing, emotional, informative
musical. Fun.
Yeah, it's funny, fun, serious, sad.
It's like all the emotions. Like, I definitely shredded some
tears. Also shredded, shredded,
shredded, shredded. I shredded those tears.
(03:16):
I mean like. In just a really manly way,
yeah. Shredded them, man.
Cry, yeah, but tell us about it.So for those who don't know what
this show is. So it's about an island off of
Canada that suddenly had to takein 7000 people when September
11th happened because planes were diverted because the
American airspace was shut down and they're the population
(03:37):
literally doubled in a day. And yeah, when you explain it,
it doesn't quite capture how deep and just magical really the
musical is. But I was brainstorming some
promo stuff earlier for just forthe company, the theatre
company, and it's not a September 11th show.
It's actually a September 12th show.
Meaning it's it's not about whathappened on September 11th.
(04:01):
It's about everything that followed in this tiny island
where they had to care for thesepeople from all over the world
that were really scared and lostin some in really horrible
situations. It's also 12 cast members
playing over 30 characters with no prop, no break, no prop
changes, no scene changes, no wechange cost you one stage.
(04:21):
It all happens there. There's no intermission.
It's just bang right there. Incredibly impressive put
together execution of the thing.We can't think of the words
because that's how tired I am from doing rehearsals.
If you're local, we would love to have you there.
Come from away. The link will be in our bio, in
the show description, on our platforms, and in our posts as
well, so check it out. We would love to have you there.
(04:42):
Come and watch me be very nervous on stage.
Come, come watch. Come from away.
Anyway, that's Amy's update comefrom away, but now we're going
to dive into the episode Unmet needs.
Honey, we need to chat. So what is Unmet Needs?
(05:05):
Just a quick summary to introduce us to these stories.
Unmet needs in relationships areemotional, physical or
psychological needs that go unacknowledged, unexpressed or
unfulfilled over time. And unexpressed is really
important. I think that's key to a lot of
the stories that we hear and a lot of the stories we're going
to navigate in this episode. But yeah, unacknowledged,
(05:27):
unexpressed or unfulfilled. And they're not high maintenance
or neediness. They're more about the core
needs that people are are feeling a lack in or something's
missing there. It's it more speaks to core
baseline needs like feeling seen, feeling safe, feeling
loved, feeling connected, even if it's like coming out in a
surface level thing. They're sneaky.
(05:49):
Most couples don't argue about the unmet need itself.
They usually argue about the symptoms, like I've just said.
So common symptoms you might seepopping up in a relationship
when it's actually about a core need is snapping or irritation
over nothing, common quotations and nothing withdrawal or going
quiet or the stonewalling stuff.We've spoken about passive
(06:09):
aggressive comments usually indicating there's a little bit
of bitterness going on there, lack of desire or or intimacy,
feeling like roommates instead of partners.
And we've done a whole episode on that one as well.
Resentment or score keeping overexplaining or shutting down.
And that's just a few of the ways that that these things
might present in a relationship that might indicate that
(06:31):
although those feel like the things you have to tackle,
there's probably something more foundational going on.
And we also wanted to share about why unmet needs are hard
to name. Yeah, it's definitely something
that we've navigated through. So we'll have conversations and
sometimes we feel like we're going around circles.
Yeah. And then we pause and we come
back. It's like, all right.
Well, upon reflection, I can seeit's this thing.
(06:52):
So like, yeah, naming what we'refeeling can be really hard, but
we don't always know what we need.
We just feel off. Like it's just like, all right,
something's not right here. I don't know what it is, but
it's just not sitting easy with me.
We're taught to downplay our needs.
We don't want to be a burden to someone else and we expect our
partner to just know our needs and our wants, which is just
(07:15):
something we've spoken about before of like, that's just not,
not accurate. That's not so.
It's just so common. Also, we fear rejection or
making it worse by speaking up. And I've done that before.
Like where I will, I will shut down or I'll hold my tongue
because it's like I just can't be bothered making going through
this whole conversation or making it worse or whatever
(07:36):
else. And I I still have to keep
working on that. Yeah.
We had a big conversation about this, these things basically the
other day. So it's so common.
And a lot of the time I find personally at least, I can't
even figure out what the unmet need is until I've like dug,
dug, dug usually in a conversation because otherwise
it just goes round and round. But yeah, that's why they're
(07:56):
hard to name. That's why they're usually
unmet. That's why they usually are
sneaky. And let's dive into some stories
and see how they might be playing out for real life
people. So this is a first story from
Reddit. The title is am IA bad guy.
If we're telling my girlfriend, if she's going to just throw out
what I make her, she can cook for herself.
(08:19):
I30 male, live with my little brother 28 male and my
girlfriend 30 female and sometimes neither of us will
feel like cooking. I'm assuming the little brother
doesn't cook as well because he said neither.
So when the other goes to cook we ask them to cook for us too.
It's a system that works out. We normally cook for ourselves,
but sometimes we also cook a bigmeal for everyone in the house.
(08:40):
We also all pitch in for the grocery bill.
Most of what's in the house is for us to use and specific stuff
meant for just the person are marked and told in advance.
Lately when my girlfriend has asked me to cook her something
that I'm making for myself and Ihave, I wake up the next morning
to find most of it in the garbage.
I'm not a world class cook by any means but I don't burn my
(09:00):
food or under season it either. After the last time when she
asked me to cook or something I told her no, that I'm tired of
seeing food wasted not to mention the time I took to cook
it for her and that if she's going to keep throwing food away
like that she can just cook for herself.
My brother agrees with me on thesubject that the food waste is
annoying and frustrating to see as it needs to end.
(09:21):
Some of our friends agree too while others are saying I just
should cook for her anyways and calling me not a nice person for
letting her go hungry. There's something something I
just need to point out about this story before we dive in is
she lives with him and his brother.
Maybe they're really quick, that's great, but also they all
cook for themselves. Really interesting dynamic if
(09:41):
you're living with your partner.Yeah, in my head and there's
something there's, there's something off about this story.
I'm like why are they doing separate meals Like why aren't
they doing the same like? Why does she have to ask him to
cook if he's cooking? Why does she have to say, can
you cook me something? Yeah.
And why is that? They're set up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's just a very
(10:02):
interesting. Setup.
We each to their own. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
I think in this situation, it's not necessarily about the fact
that he doesn't want to cook it.Well, all right, sorry.
Because it's such a funny situation in from my from my
view, I'm like, well, I think he's just if he's got an issue,
you don't necessarily say, I'm not going to do that anymore
because you do this thing. It's like, no, what have the
(10:25):
conversation about her not throwing out the Food First.
You know, we don't see that partof the conversation.
And it's like, all right, cool, well, I'll do that, but maybe
I'll make you a smaller portion.Like that seems like such a easy
thing to navigate through, but Ifeel like it's just the unspoken
thing. Like we have these expectations
of like, well, you've done this bad thing now, Sorry, this is
(10:46):
your punishment. I'm not going to do that for you
anymore because you keep doing this bad thing.
But we'll, yeah, just have the conversation.
Like she should just know, yeah,that that's why that that he's
frustrated by that or hurt by that.
And yeah, I don't know. It'd be really nice to know.
And maybe they dive into it in the comments.
I'm not sure because I didn't save them here.
It would be really nice to know if she gave a response to that
(11:10):
or if they had had conversationsabout her throwing out the food
or if she had a reason for why she was throwing out the food.
Like who knows? If she's like, yeah, there's
there could be. I've got a few things that come
to mind about why someone may throw out food.
And some of them are because what wonderful.
Maybe he serves really big servings and she doesn't want to
like, I don't know, maybe she's trying to tell him that before
(11:31):
and he hasn't listened. Maybe she's got a history with
eating disorders. That can be people need to feel
like they are able to manage thefood on their plate.
And so there could be some stuffthere too.
I'm not well versed in that but let me have a look at the
comments and see if I see anything.
Something that's that I think this is just a bit in our
season, the moment though of if she's got any food allergies or
(11:54):
like so one of our boys, we've just been navigating through
gluten free stuff, right? And even tonight like today.
So we celebrate Mother's Day today we went out and we got a
nice pie and sausage roll, this nice bakery and had gluten in it
and like well, this is all new for us by the way, it's not like
we've been doing this for years.We.
(12:15):
Are not educated in this. We're not educated in this.
And then tonight, like his stomach is really, really off.
He's really struggling. And so, but again, depending on
how long these guys have been together for, she could have
some insecurities around that aswell.
Like, yeah, there's so many different.
Reasons. Yeah.
So I had a quick look at the comments just to see.
And someone said why does she? Has she given an explanation for
(12:37):
why she throws out the food? And he said, I've asked her, she
just tells me she doesn't like how it tasted though I've told
her what I'm cooking before I make some for her.
So that's when she could have said she didn't want it, which
makes sense. And then someone said why
doesn't she just put it away as leftovers?
And he said, I honestly wish I knew we have a Tupperware for
it, but she just throws it out instead.
To be fair, if it was put up as leftovers I wouldn't be so
(12:59):
frustrated. So yeah, interesting.
Could be patterns at family likehistory, like how they did stuff
in their family. Could be like I I get kind of
weird about old food. It kind of just if the idea in
my head really throws me. I eat things that I shouldn't
eat. You're a fast yeah.
Because I just can't stop thinking about it.
Yeah. So who knows what is going on,
(13:20):
But there is definitely the unspoken.
I think there's like a big question mark around why it
happens. They need to have that
conversation for him to just be like, she just says she doesn't
like it. And that's like the extent of
their conversation is bizarre again to me.
Yeah. So if you're new here, the what
we do in these topics is not necessarily cast out judgement
on how they deal with it or the situation or whatever else.
(13:42):
What we do is try, try and unpack how we would have liked
to have that conversation. So it just gives us a, it's
essentially just practise for us, like how can we grow in our
communication? And so we're looking at other
people's stories and say like, cool, well this is how I would
want to receive it or any would want to receive it or what would
want to be trying to get out of it.
Yeah. So definitely there's patterns
(14:04):
of not communicating happening and playing out like him not him
making the call and not having that conversation, her not
explaining clearly. There's obviously some kind of
miscommunication and whatever the reason that is there.
I think they just need to have some conversations around it
because it sounds like she her throwing his food out.
And I can understand why this would feel this way because she
(14:25):
doesn't like the taste of taste of it would make me feel like,
but you asked me to make this like the what?
That's kind of like throwing that back in his face kind of
thing. Like it's a rejection of his
gift to her and his time. It's also a waste of his time
and it's a waste of their resources if they're a fair.
Like they're a household that share those resources.
So I can understand how it wouldfeel offensive.
(14:48):
Yeah, I don't like these including his brother in the
conversation. Like if we if you and I lived
together with one of your sisters and you started talking
to your sisters about one of my habits, I'll be frustrated.
Well, especially if it was before you had we had even had
the conversation properly, if this had been a repetitive thing
that he's talked to her, he's talked to her, he's talked to
(15:08):
her and he's like, I don't know what else to do.
Yeah, like, what else do I do? And then I can understand making
a like harder stance on it or maybe being like talking to his
people that are close to him and.
And the. Other thing too, you mentioned
before about like it could be something that she's inherited
from my family. Lots of family patterns.
Him and his brother have the same family part.
That's right. So that's already like.
(15:30):
A bias. A bias, yeah, 100%.
It'd be different to another housemate that's a bit more
neutral. Yeah, yeah.
Your family almost always is going to have some kind of bias
to support, which is beautiful in some ways.
But anyway, I think it sounds like she may be.
Well, both of them are a little bit conflict avoidant, I would
say. Like they're just kind of acting
out of their frustrations and not really working together on
(15:51):
it. But I understand his frustration
as well, right? Like, so if, if this is a
constant thing where I made foodand I I like I made you food and
you would throw it out like thatwould be hard.
You know, it's, I would feel, I wouldn't feel the value and the
actions that I was doing for you.
Yeah. And like we said before, these
(16:11):
are about unmet needs. So is this just the food or is
there a bigger thing, a bigger story that plays out for him
that feeds into this rejection of his presence or is like?
Yeah, well, it could be his his input into the relationship,
right. Like, so you could also look at
it as like, well, this is me contributing to our relationship
and it's met with rejection. Like they could be.
(16:33):
Again, there's so many layers todifferent actions.
And again, we've just been having a conversation this week
about things that we're navigating through.
And there's so many layers to something that you bring up
when, when we, when you and I talk, we have our topic that
we're trying to discuss, but then we also need to discuss all
the layers that comes with that too, because we're realising
(16:54):
actually, we're triggered now. So where's that trigger coming
from? So there's so many things
wrapped up in it and it's like, cool.
I feel like for him to put it upon Reddit, it's going to be more
than just, hey, I cook food and my girlfriend is checking it
out. I feel like there's that sense
of rejection coming in there, orsomething deeper, more than just
a frustration. Yeah.
So I think if this was us, if this was me navigating that and
(17:16):
you'd been throwing out my food,which you would just never
because it's food. But if if this was me, I think I
would really want to find time to sit down and be like, why are
you throwing it out? Is there a reason you're
throwing it out? Is it just that you don't like
the flavour of it? And if it is expressing to you,
from my perspective, that's kindof offensive because I put this
(17:38):
effort into it and you just Chuck it like I would be much
happier if you don't really wantit for you to just say, no, I
don't really want it. Or put it in a container and
keep it for us so that we've gotthe leftovers or something.
But having the conversations andinstead of assuming and then
reacting out of that assumption,having the conversation with
curiosity like we talk about allthe time and figuring out why
(18:00):
this might be sitting so poorly with you guys.
Anyway, this is a good opportunity.
I've added some prompts in for each of these stories as well to
just make it a little more practical for us as listeners to
think about how this might play out for us in our relationships.
So just a question to ponder. Where in your relationship have
you stopped offering something because you didn't feel seen or
(18:22):
appreciated? And if that's happened, has it
been a communicated thing or is it one of those little subtle,
almost passive aggressive reactions and punishments to
your partner's reaction? A couple things that in this
kind of situation you can use asa couple to work through is
assuming positive intent opener.So when you go to have the
(18:43):
conversation, instead of being like, you're wasting my time,
you're throwing out this food and like you're just being
offensive and kind of coming outthe gate with an assumption of
negative intent. You can come out the gate with,
hey, I'm wondering if maybe there's something about the food
that I'm not aware of or like, is there something else going on
for you about food? Like why?
(19:03):
Why does this happen? And assuming a positive intent
in their actions, even if that doesn't end up being the case,
it's an easier way to gently introduce a conversation.
The other one is a mutual reset question and that's where you
decide we're both going to put some ground rules out there to
help you when you're navigating this.
She might not want to finish food, might not like the
(19:23):
flavour. That's OK, we've got these
ground rules in place to help us.
Yeah, that's a good, that's a good one to discuss.
And again, it's not as huge dramatic topic, but they're all
good topics for us to look through and just evaluate and
assess ourselves as well. How are we handling different
situations, big or small? And they're important to to be
(19:43):
aware of, But we're going to keep diving into more in a bit.
For example, we're going to do aphones topic and being present
in relationships topic. But we wanted to take a bit of a
pause here. So if you're enjoying this
episode, we just want to give you a little bit of a space to
quickly share this with someone else that might get value out of
it. And if you are someone that's
received this from someone else,that's amazing that that's
(20:05):
really encouraging because this person has been thinking of you,
your relationship, the value in.Your relationship and your
communication in your relationship.
So that's, I think those really,really special moves receive
episodes from other people and so forth.
So do that now, take this time, do that now, and we're going to
jump into another unmet need. Great.
All right, so the second story is, am I overreacting for
(20:28):
considering breaking up with my boyfriend over this detail?
My boyfriend, My boyfriend? What'd you say?
Juicy, juicy. My boyfriend, let's call him
John, he's 20 and I female, 19, just had our first argument.
I myself have a very strict ruleto put my phone away when in
company of other people and I really value to surround myself
with people who think and act alike.
(20:50):
However, John is constantly on his phone and it really started
to annoy me. We live an hour train ride away
so usually when we visit each other we also stay the night.
Being together for two days after a busy week can be
exhausting, so I totally get that at some point he wants some
alone time. We're both autistic by the way
so need a little bit more and I really wouldn't mind if he would
(21:11):
do something for himself, even if it's just for two hours.
But he doesn't communicate that he's overwhelmed and just grabs
his phone whenever he feels likeit and it's hard for me to tell
why he's on his phone and when it's OK for me to ask for his
attention. Last week I took him out on a
date and after we had dinner he was on his phone and I made a
bit of a passive aggressive comment about me not liking it.
(21:31):
I know it was wrong and I apologise later on.
What I didn't know is that he had an emergency with his group
project that needed to be fixed right away.
Totally understandable, but he didn't tell me so at the moment
I just thought he was being really rude.
Anyway, we are in a fight because I don't have the same
values in terms of phone use in each other's company.
I don't like it when people are randomly on their phone and he
(21:52):
thinks it's stupid. He needs to give a reason why
he's on his phone. I did say out of anger, but I do
mean it. I don't want to be in a
relationship with someone who's constantly on their phone and he
thinks it's a stupid detail to throw away everything we have.
Honestly I never get angry but just writing this makes me
really upset. I don't need to have attention
every second we are together buthim grabbing his phone out of
(22:14):
nowhere while I talk to him justmakes me feel like he doesn't
care. And when he grabs it when
there's a silence it also makes everything 10 times more awkward
for me. If he needs to check on
something important that's fine,but just tell me just a simple
wait a SEC, this is important and is enough.
If he's overwhelmed and needs alone time, that's all right
too, but just don't grab it because it's there.
Phones. There's, there's quite a lot in
(22:36):
this, like if she brought out aswell for herself about how she
made a passive aggressive comment rather than just a
discussion through it. There doesn't seem to be any
questions exploring that. You know, she's not really
sharing more about why it's a value for her that it just is.
And she's not digging deeper into why it's on his phone as
much. And like, and she even said that
(22:57):
she needs to like be more curious rather than
accusational. I, I get it.
I, I genuinely get it. Like I get the, I get into that
point of like, if you know me, Iget this idea in my head.
It's like, I want to work on this.
I'm going to do these things andput these things in place and
then I do it and I'll be quite strict with it and so forth.
(23:18):
And then I'll be confused with like, why isn't anyone else
doing this? And since this, I don't know, I
don't know why my brain does that, but I, I just had this
expectation that everyone else needs to be doing what I'm
doing. I've been challenged by this.
So why isn't everyone else? And this has been a cause of
many of our arguments as well. And so I do understand her
perspective, but at the same time, I still I understand her
(23:41):
perspective, but I because of through experience, I understand
the danger of this perspective and this view without that
evaluation, if she's willing to throw away the relationship over
this, I'm like, well, girl, you're probably not ready for
relationships. Well, they're very young, yeah,
19 and 20s you. And that is where you're
learning. You're starting to be like, oh,
(24:01):
I'm relationship isn't just about who I have a crush on.
Relationships is about who I cansee myself living with.
But we've spoken about like evenin the last week's episode,
we're going to talk about attachment styles.
We've spoken about how being together has changed our
approaches to things and you change because you grow
(24:23):
together. And one of the things that we
had this argument about, which was after I made this, this
episode was about phones, but also was about just like at one
point I was like, we're so different.
And it's really sometimes very exhausting to navigate how
different we are when we processthings really differently.
But the beauty in it is that we when you're intentional in that
(24:46):
space, doesn't really matter howdifferent you are.
I don't think you even like if you've got different values, I
don't think that's necessarily ared flag because you can have
conversations and grow through that and you are intentional and
you challenge each other and stretch each other.
And right now it sounds like this is a value for her.
(25:08):
Fair enough value. Totally fair enough value to
have a conversation about. Doesn't sound like she's had
that conversation. Like you said, sounds like it's
only come out in a in a passive aggressive comment.
And if it's anything like what we were communicating about,
potentially he also knows that she's annoyed about it.
And it's the comment might be one thing, but he might already
(25:28):
have picked up on a vibe. Who knows?
I don't know. And so for her, yeah, for her to
break up or consider breaking upwith him over this instance
without having at least a littlebit of conversation to see if
they can find a common ground orput like some rules in to make
them feel comfortable and safe and accepted is drastic.
I don't, I don't think that's the best way to go about it
(25:50):
because I think without too muchconversation, you can find a
really common ground, which is that that makes her feel
unloved, obviously. And the deeper need that we've
talked about is it's not just about the phone, It's about what
that phone is telling her. And from his perspective, her
passive aggressiveness is probably not just about the
phone. It's about what that is telling
him and what that is telling them about how they are loved or
(26:14):
cared for, seen or appreciated or given space and that kind of
thing in their relationship. We see, we see so much.
I'm not sure if it's in movies or reality shows.
I don't watch reality shows, butI've seen it somewhere where I
hear about it like, you know, people are like it's.
Probably me telling you about the show.
Probably, yeah. It's like, oh, we don't have
anything in common, so we wouldn't work.
We're not a good match and all this sort of stuff.
(26:35):
And I think, you know, our conversation this week has been,
you know, you mentioned. So it can be so hard because we
are so different, but man, I like we have these huge
strengths because we're so different.
Like I don't think differences mean that we're not a good match
for each other. I think it just means we have
(26:57):
different things to navigate through.
Some people will have like trauma, more trauma that they
have to navigate through and thetrauma that they've never been
bringing into their relationship.
They've had, you know, some, some couples will be like, well,
I'm also solo driven for so longnow I've got to work more in a
team like, you know, we as a couple and stuff like that.
There's so many different thingsthat people will be bringing
(27:20):
into that relationship. They have to work through Ours
is that we are so different. The way that we process stuff,
the way that we view things, theexpectations we have, the values
we have, they're all different and it makes it hard,
absolutely. But if it wasn't this, if we
were very similar, we would haveother things that would be
navigating through that were difficult and challenge just as
(27:42):
difficult and challenging as well.
So I just, I, that's a just something I, I hear and I'm
like, that's not an excuse to not go through with it.
What I think is an where I wouldsee is like, all right, cool,
that makes sense to not go through with it is the
unwillingness to work on those differences and those challenges
together. Yeah, it's that is exactly it.
(28:03):
And that's the case, I would say, across the board.
And that's why we're all about communication on this podcast.
Your willingness to explore things will almost always make a
way if you can be willing. It is the being met with
unwillingness that there's only so much that that can only so
far that that can go. And that's where we really try
to focus on what you you can do,like what your ownership of that
(28:26):
can, can be. But yeah, your willingness and
the intentionality that like we are stretched because we're
different. We're stretched in terms of
like, we have these tensions sometimes and they come out for
the most part pretty good. And then they'll be attention
because we're like, oh, it's just like a hiccup.
But then if we were really similar, the tension we would
probably have is having to, we don't have one of us that
(28:50):
functions that way. So when we're navigating things
outside of our comfort zone, both of us would have to learn
how to. So it's just like you said,
every couple's got a different equation of things that they
navigate. And, and I don't, I agree, I
don't think it's a recipe for disaster or red flag.
It just is what it is and you work on that's like the
challenge you tackle. And when you're in a
relationship and you have commitment and you've got
(29:11):
intentionality, that challenge is OK.
And this is definitely not especially on like this scale or
this surface level. And obviously there could be
more, but definitely not a like a big red flag or anything like
that. This is a conversation that can
be had and there can be so many things going on.
So she said he's autistic. Like, who knows what he.
(29:35):
They both are. Yeah.
Like, and. And each of them could be
picking up on different sensory inputs than each other and just
be completely different, like readings of the situation.
Regardless of their neurodivergence, there could be
a completely different reading of the situation.
And. And if he's an introvert and
he's got someone in his space, like, I totally resonate with
that. Like, I do need space.
(29:56):
And they're young and they've got other things like he's got
this group project. There's other commitments.
They're not fully committed to each other, living with each
other. So it's not quite the same like
intensity. Yeah.
So many things that could be happening.
And who knows what has happened for her.
We could be family culture, could be an experience with
somebody else, could be a feeling of rejection.
(30:17):
I don't know what's going on with her to have that value.
Good for her that she's got the value because it's, I think it's
a really healthy one. But having no conversation about
it is not going to help. Considering breaking up with him
about it. That's not going to fix that
problem for you because you're going to have to navigate that
problem, that conversation, thatvalue difference with somebody
else on the track. It's just a conversation that
(30:38):
needs to be had regardless of who you're with.
Something we finished on though,in our conversation, like we
identified, you know, we're so different and we identified that
again and we, we address, we, wespoke it out loud.
It is hard. It is hard to navigate that.
And we sort of looked through too of like, well, when because
the last time we had a big argument before this one was
(31:00):
when we're renovating our house,getting ready to sell for this
house. And what we identified, we don't
see a pattern. We've got to explore and try and
find that pattern. The pattern that we discovered
was when we keep missing each other, but when we're busy,
we're so busy and we don't have that quality time together, this
sparks up because we haven't hadthat intentional time to talk
(31:21):
and just to, you know, just justto be and have the conversation
because we just haven't been able to have that
intentionality. So you've been out a lot for
your rehearsals. I've been out for volleyball and
we've just been very stressed with the kids at the moment and
we've been missing each other like just in terms of proximity.
We haven't had that quality timetogether.
And so I think that's been a biglearning for us is called OK,
(31:45):
we've had the argument, what is the pattern?
Why is this happened again and what can we do about it?
And that's the conversations we're continuing having
continually having now. So it's not finished, but I
think that's something that's really important is if you guys
find yourself in those patterns of disagreements and arguments,
trying to identify that. And then the unmet need?
(32:06):
What is the unmet need exactly? Why does this keep repeating?
What, what can we do about it? They're really important parts
of the conversation. You and I spoke, I think it was
in the last episode as well, about, you know, fighting's not
bad. It's fighting well.
You know, we need to learn to fight well, and we don't.
You and I don't always fight well, but it's we do the after
(32:29):
part well, you know, and that's,that's what we keep on growing
in. So yeah, don't shy away from
those conversations. Just because they're
uncomfortable at the beginning of your relationship.
Like this is these are the kind of conversation that build a
relationship. Yeah, that is so true.
And it's it. There's something that we've
done before in leadership training.
And it's also a little bit of a tactic that I use in coaching.
(32:50):
And it's like, it's like asking the why and then asking the why
and then asking the why. And then someone will give you
an answer. Like why did you throw my food
out? I didn't like the flavour of it.
I don't like the taste. Cool.
Why did you think why was that enough to throw it out?
Like because I don't really my family never keep kept
leftovers. I don't really like leftover
(33:12):
food. Cool.
Why like, and you just like dig and and you'll eventually like
we had a massive conversation and there was a bazillion things
in that conversation that were valid.
But at the end that summary point was like, oh, that's
probably the foundational need that's not being met.
So asking this question like, why are you on your phone when
we're together? Not maybe not saying it that
way, but you know, asking the why and then they'll give an
(33:35):
answer and then asking a why andthen they'll give an answer and
do it in a gentle, not obnoxiouslike why, why, why, like our
kids. But there's.
So many layers. And this is a prompt like this
is a really good time to to ask yourself, do your, do you, do
you and your partner have mismatched expectations about
together time? Because if you haven't spent
(33:58):
that time together talking aboutwhat together time looks like,
it could just be mismatched expectations of what that's
going to be. And like love languages play
into this too, like quality time.
What is quality time for you? Is that important to you?
What does that mean having that conversation?
And have you ever talked about what presence looks like for
each of you? Presence as in being present,
not giving presents with that too.
(34:21):
Yeah. And then some tools that I
reckon these guys could implement is pre frame
transitions. I'm just going to zone out on my
phone for a bit. I'm feeling a bit overloaded.
So saying this is what I'm doingand This is why so that she's
not left there. Be like OK, like what's
happening? And then another one is a check
in ritual. What kind of vibe are you
(34:41):
needing tonight? Connection or just coexisting,
like before you're hanging out or when you first get together,
especially when you're not living together, What kind of
vibe are you needing? Are you exhausted and you just
need to like be together but nothanging out?
Super quality time? Or do you want to be really
connecting and making the most of the time together just to get
(35:02):
those expectations on the same page?
And I feel like with a few conversations this would really
iron out for itself. Yeah, another good, another good
conversation to have. Again, it's those things where
it's like these irritations thatwe have, we we put them off, you
know, we don't know how to navigate through it.
Sometimes we don't even know from ourselves.
Like why is this irritating me so much?
Self evaluation before going into the conversation is really
(35:24):
important also. But in a second we're gonna jump
into one of the biggest topics in this area, the dead bedroom.
But first, just a quick pause. If you love this podcast, if you
want to support us and in this podcast, we would just love for
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(35:44):
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(36:06):
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We just want to say thank you somuch for all those that have
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jump on to that bandwagon as well.
Would really appreciate it. Let's get back into it all.
Right, here we go, the jet bedroom.
Yeah, I was. I was going to get like, I was
(36:28):
going to get like BOM, BOM, BOM.I was like, what?
And then I just joined them all.Yeah, and then your throat made
a noise. All right, so this story is
called at what point if your needs aren't being met, is it
time to walk away? So for the past year and a half
or so, the intimacy has pretty much been non existent.
We do have a toddler, so I'm aware that things would change
after she was born, but not to this extent.
(36:50):
We've been together for almost five years and up until our
daughter, sex was constant everyday, almost multiple times even.
The passion is like nothing I'veever experienced.
Good for them, you know. Well done.
Well done before. We read on.
What gender do you think this writer is?
Male. Female.
It's a female what just to throw?
OK, 'cause it's actually shiftedmy perspective now.
(37:12):
I know now it's nothing. I've brought it up.
I've asked maybe if we need to seek a doctor's opinion, maybe
if it's something underlying. He just shows 0 interest.
He gives excuses to turn me downif I don't attempt to initiate
the once a month probably wouldn't happen.
I feel like a broken record. I feel like I'm practically
begging for the man to give it to me.
(37:33):
Yes, we have stressors like everybody else, but the past
year and a half I've tried it all.
I bought toys to try and spice things up.
He was actually offended by this.
I opened up conversations and nothing.
At what point is it fair for me to say my needs are not being
met and I don't want a dead bedroom.
Intimacy is very important to me.
It's starting to affect my overall confidence now.
(37:53):
Physical touch is my love language and I have a high sex
drive and I want to be desired by my husband.
I don't want to call it quits. I love and adore this man.
However, I don't want to be my husband's roommate anymore.
Unmet needs. OK, so this is I'm looking, I'm
going to look at this from 2 perspectives and I'm glad you
actually told me that this is a female as well.
Reading through that because it really shifted my perspective,
(38:15):
the 1st perspective I had of like, all right man, you need to
understand like, you know what goes through like the.
This is when you thought it was a guy.
Yeah. I'm like, you know, the hormones
are going through the labour, all this sort of stuff, all of
it can all have an effect in this area.
Yeah. Something that's not very spoken
(38:36):
about, like that's not spoken about much.
I've mentioned on this podcast quite a lot though, is the
effects of having a baby can have on a man.
Yeah. Right mental health.
So mental health, so it's so research shows A1 in 10 dads
suffer from post Natal depression, 56% of dads won't do
anything about it and 60% of dads in general see post Natal
(38:59):
anxiety and depression for men as a sign of weakness.
So there's a whole stigma aroundit as well.
So I'm not saying that this is what this guy has, but what I'm
saying is that guys are a lot less likely to get help for
ourselves, address the help thatwe need or seek out or evaluate
or whatever else. Like this is something, it's a
(39:20):
real issue for men, especially in Australia.
I can't speak about it in other countries, but this stigma
around, you know, I need to be the strong guy.
I need to not show emotion. I need, you know, don't show
weakness sort of stuff. But it shoots us in the foot
because the people that like thepeople that it gets affected the
most is actually not us. We might be struggling with what
we're struggling with, but it affects everyone around us,
(39:42):
especially those are the closestto us.
So this is a real issue for man of not speaking things through
and addressing their stuff. I could easily I could see that
this guy could be struggling with his own identity in view of
like, why do I have a low sex drive?
Like why am I struggling with this?
And then with that can come guilt, which fuels that whole
thing. This is a a very surface level 0
(40:05):
perspective from his side of like several is 0 input from
context. Thank you from his side into
this conversation. But I just wanted to say that
because if there's any guys thatare relating to what I've just
shared there, it's really important.
You do something about it, you can reach out to us and we can,
we can actually share some resources on to you and it be
(40:25):
anonymous. You can reach out to
organisations like we can give you organisations to reach out
to and stuff. So do that.
That's the bare meme. I just wanted to say that
because something that's not spoken about much, I'm very
passionate about this area and this is what we do in my work as
well. So the other element that I can
also relate to in this as well is for there, there could be a
(40:47):
bunch of different things going on for this guy as well.
It could be, I don't really knowhow to go into this, like cut
into this. But what came into my mind
straight away was when I struggled a lot with intimacy
was when I had a pornography addiction.
So that's another thing that my mind goes to is because so for
me, I've got, I've had a historyof addictions, either drugs,
(41:09):
alcohol, cigarettes, whatever else.
So it just kept on transferring through to these different
things. And, and when we were married,
when we got married, I was my, that transferred through
pornography had a direct impact on my mood, my mental health and
my intimacy and my drive. And that's been a huge thing
that we've had to navigate through.
(41:30):
But this is something I I go to,I'm not saying that he that he
is, but I could see this being something that, you know, could
be sparking on him as well. Yeah, it's some that's a kind of
underlying part of this is therecould be so many things going on
and the conversations need to behad.
The hard part is that she has said she's brought it up.
She said she's brought it up, She's asked just if they need to
(41:51):
see a doctor. Maybe it's something underlying.
He just shows 0 interest. I'd be interested to know what
he what his input into the conversations were when she
brought it up. Excuses to turn me down if I
don't attempt to initiate them just wouldn't happen.
And they've got stressors. And she's tried all of it.
She's brought toys to try and make it what I think is
interesting. And I feel like immediately this
(42:13):
would have been the case if thiswas from a male's perspective.
We would have been like, yeah, but have you thought about how
she's feeling? And I actually think that's
relevant here, too. I don't know.
Obviously, we don't have the context, but she's talking about
how she's tried everything. She initiates, she talks about
it. She's like, do we need to see a
doctor? She bought toys, and that's all.
I understand what she's trying to do, but that seemingly is all
(42:35):
symptom spotting and I wonder ifshe's explored that deeper stuff
the the mental health, if she's asked him what's going on, if
she's asked him why like she's she mentions that we all have
stressors like everybody else, but that's very kind of
dismissive sounding or more likegeneralising sounding probably
than I like. I think if this was you and I, I
would be like, what is happening?
(42:57):
Is he burnt out? Is he, like you said, personal
depression, male personal depression or just depression,
like mental health stuff going on?
Is there an addiction thing going on?
Is there something going on thathe's feeling ashamed about?
Something else? Is there kind of an identity
identity thing going on? He's now a dad and the stress of
being a dad and providing for your family, assuming that's
what he's doing. Like if he's working for his
(43:18):
family and just being a dad and his identity in how he is a dad,
like that changes how you see yourself.
And so there could be so many things.
And I feel like if this was a man writing in people's
reactions would be like, you don't understand what it's like
to be a mum, to be going throughyour bodies changing, to be
going through your roles changing, your identity's gone
and your interests are different.
(43:38):
You might have mental health, like I feel like that would be
listed. So it's fascinating that that's
not like the first thing that comes to mind just because it's.
Well, that's where my mind went,yeah.
I mean for myself. Yeah, because it's, it's so many
things, like we don't talk aboutthat sort of stuff.
We don't talk at that level amongst for for men in general
and men and ourselves don't talkabout it.
(43:59):
Like we're a lot likely to go get help for ourselves.
We're more likely to go help someone else.
You know what I mean? We're very quick to help.
We're very slow to get help. It's interesting as well because
her title is at what point if your needs aren't being met, is
it time to walk away? And I think that angle is it
probably misses the mark for me because yes, it would be hard if
(44:23):
you were like, this is the rest of our lives.
What am I like, is this just going to be the rest of our
lives? And like, when do I walk away?
But it's, it's, I just feel likethere's like a missing piece of
like I'm worried about my husband.
Something's not right. Yeah, it's quite interesting.
It's like, all right, because I feel like there's missing
information here. I don't think you can look at
these stories of face value, butit's where it's like, all right,
(44:44):
well, I'm not, you know, I'm notgetting the physical attention
that I'm needing. So this isn't the relationship
for me. Which is very as much
summarising what she's saying, but yeah, that.
Generalising it, but it's like that's that sounds very intense
like that you've got a daughter,like a kid together.
I don't know, I don't know if she said it was a daughter, but
you know, I've been together forfive years got a kid together
(45:07):
and it's like all right now thatyou don't get this one element.
It's like now is the time to walk away.
That sounds so intense to me, but there.
So in this as well, we're looking at her unmet need.
And we've been kind of talking about this too, though it's
like, well, I'm seeing 2 unmet needs here is like she's got a
physical unmet need. We have no idea what his is.
(45:27):
And that's, that's something that needs to be explored.
Like there is an unmet need heresomewhere.
It's affecting him in some way and that needs to be explored.
Yeah, and I would actually say hers is probably not.
That's the other thing with sex related needs which are very
common. Like you'll hear, there's so
many stories I wrote it about this, but it, it's like I need
(45:48):
sex and, and that's what they put that down to.
But I actually don't think that that's the core need that she
has that's unmet. If this was me and it has been
the, the benefit, I guess if that's what I want to say is
that we've actually both been onboth sides of this.
So there has been a time where Ifelt really rejected and really
unwanted by you. And that need wasn't, it felt
(46:10):
like the need that was being unmet was the physical intimacy.
The real need that was being unmet was my like, sense of who
like you or how you thought of me.
Were you even attracted to me? Did you even want me?
My sense of rejection from you and that kind of thing not being
good enough for you, all those things.
And even it's even easy to miss it for her yourself.
(46:35):
So I don't even know if she is recognising.
She does say, you know, I want to be wanted by my husband.
She says intimacy is very important to me.
It's starting to affect my overall confidence now.
So she's identifying, it's affecting her confidence.
I think there's needs underneaththat.
And when we have gone through these seasons on both sides, the
(46:56):
thing we've found is a person that's been struggling, it
doesn't make it easier to just know how much the other person
needs it like that. It actually is like a, it's more
pressure and shame and like build up and it's a little bit
like disabling in some ways. But if we had the, and when we
have had the conversation about what it's been meaning to each
(47:16):
other, that makes it easier. So if they're having a
conversation and she's like, I feel like I'm not wanted by you.
I don't feel wanted. There's like deeper emotional
connection identity type needs that are being missed here.
I feel like if she's able to communicate it on that level, it
takes away a little bit of the pressure about the physical
(47:37):
intimacy and allows them to focus on what emotional intimacy
is not being met. And the more that you focus on,
I just like, why wouldn't you doit?
I just want to do it. I just want to do it.
I'm going to buy these toys and make it like, whatever.
It's not going to make someone who's not in a good place feel
better about doing it. Like that's not how it works,
unfortunately. So I think, yeah, I think you're
right. There's so many different sides
(47:57):
to it. It sounds like there's something
there for him, whatever it mightbe, and there needs to be a
gentle curiosity in navigating that conversation.
There's definitely something there.
She recognises that it, it seems, but to see what would
come out for her if she was to dig a bit deeper and what would
happen for them if she was able to communicate on that level.
And so a little prompt out of the story for us to think about
(48:19):
is, if you brought something up many times and nothing has
changed, what do you usually do next?
Do you withdraw? Do you push harder or do you
pretend it doesn't matter? What would it look like to name
the real cost and what would it look like to dig deeper in those
kind of why activities and what's going on underneath A
couple of tools. No pressure truth share.
So you could say I'm not trying to fix this.
(48:40):
I just want to share where I'm at emotionally and hear what
where you are too so you can take off.
We're not fixing it in this conversation.
We're just talking about it to kind of remove some of the
pressure he might be feeling. Second is an intimacy wish list.
Each person wishes writes down small ways they could feel
close, not just sexual. Writing down ways to feel
connected intimately without it being physical, to remove the
(49:02):
physical pressure of it all together for a little while and
just connect. Like we said after our
discussion, a lot of the time, alot of things ease up when you
finally are connecting. And if they haven't had time to
connect, then some of that stuffmight be made easier just by
connecting in different ways. So Blaze just popped out to a
child classic, but I just wantedto finish on this note.
(49:23):
When you name a need calmly and clearly, you're teaching your
brain that it's also safe to take up space.
You're also helping that become a culture in your relationship,
a muscle that is strengthened inyour relationship.
And it might be uncomfortable atfirst, but it's better for you
and it's better for your partnerand it's better for your
relationship in the long run. And it rewires old patterns.
You're able to communicate aboutneeds and then have the
(49:45):
conversation with curiosity and grace.
Outside of that, it actually starts to rewire your brains to
navigate that better. So definitely important to be
addressing. We're going to dive into a quick
reality check corner. Firstly, a personal reflection
prompt. Is there a need I've been
downplaying or hoping my partnerwill just notice because I'm
afraid it'll seem silly, selfishor it will start a fight?
(50:07):
Also, is there a need my partnerhas expressed that I have
quietly forgotten to honour? And what would it look like to
name that need without shame andto own it instead of waiting for
it to be guessed? I think this is really
important. We make so many assumptions, we
expect our partners to just knowthings, and that's just not the
most constructive way of navigating relationship.
(50:27):
It's not the way that is going to bring about the best results.
Here's a quick challenge you canimplement straight away.
Pick one small unmet need, something simple like alone
time, verbal appreciation, or shared planning and name it this
week. Keep it in one sentence, say it
calmly, say it gently and say itfor you so you can try something
like it helps me stay present when I know I've got even a
(50:48):
small moment planned together. Or I realised I feel more secure
when I hear what you're thinking, even if it's just a
little check in. So you're naming a need in a
gentle, constructive, assuming positive intent kind of way and
just to finish on a final future, future pace.
And this is just an activity that helps us to anchor into
some kind of future goals, moving towards motivational
(51:09):
picture and then borrow those feelings to help us motivate us
to work towards the things we'reworking towards.
So just close your eyes and we'll take a second to do this
one. I want you to visualise what we
read out. Imagine this a few weeks from
now. You're saying what you need
calmly and clearly without over explaining or hoping that
they've guessed right. Not everything has changed, but
something and you feels lighter.You're no longer stuffing it
(51:31):
down or spiralling after every conversation.
You're showing up with honesty and self respect.
And that shift, it's reshaping the tone of your relationship.
It's not perfect, it's just real.
It's more connected. How does that feel?
What's different in your body? What's different in your breath,
in the way you hold yourself? Let that version of you, the one
(51:53):
that speaks calmly with clarity,help you today move towards what
you're wanting to work for in your relationship.
All right guys, thank you so much for being with us to talk
about unmet needs. We will chat to you very soon.
Have a good week.
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