Welcome to Honey, We Need to Chat, where we dig deep into the real struggles couples face, from silent resentment to those tricky conversations that can make or break a relationship.
In this episode, we uncover the hidden habit of scorekeeping in relationships, what it is, why it happens, and how to stop it. Whether you’re feeling unseen, unheard, or just overwhelmed, we’ll share practical tools to break the pattern of resentment, rebuild trust, and create healthier communication.
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Come and watch Amy in Come From Away
how to stop scorekeeping in marriage,” “practical communication tools,” “rebuild trust,” “silent resentment”
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
The more your anger is driving your way, you're reading life
around you and driving your reactions, the less you're going
to see the the value in your person partner.
And so she might feel like it's hopeless right now, but I think
a lot of that would be through that philtre of that anger.
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Honey, We
Need to Chat. Welcome, welcome.
This is the podcast where we discuss all things communication
(00:23):
in a relationship. We also explore a lot of stuff
for ourselves in ways that we can grow and just be aware of
our own needs or how we even approach that conversation.
So it's not even just a matter of how we communicate together,
but how we come individually to that conversation too, to bring
a greater and stronger conversation, but also
relationship. You know, you're going to grow
(00:44):
and relationship in the way thatyou can communicate, you're
gonna get a lot of benefits fromthat.
So that's what we do here. And if you are new here today,
my name is Blair's, my wife Amy.Amy is a coach where she
discusses a lot of these things and helps women in this area
quite a lot. And on the floor, which you
can't see right now, is our sleeping golden retriever,
Bonnie, who loves to hang out with us.
(01:04):
Well, as as we record, yes. Yes, yeah.
But something about you, you click on this episode actually
tells us a lot about you. It tells us that you are
intentional about yourself. You want to grow, you want to
improve, you want to invest in your relationship and the way
that you communicate in the way that you approach those
conversations, either tricky or positive or whatever else.
(01:26):
And that's really exciting to usbecause we are on a journey for
growth. Amy and I are on a journey for
growth. So the fact that we get to do
that with you is really encouraging and exciting.
So thank you so much for tuning in today.
And if you want to please, like if you get anything from this
episode, share, like, subscribe,comment, all that helps us out
quite a lot. And if you've received this from
(01:47):
someone else, that's awesome because that means that
someone's thinking about you andthey're thinking about, you
know, the growth of yourself andthe support for you.
So that's that's actually fantastic.
Just give them a thumbs up too and, and share it on to someone
else as well that may benefit from this episode.
Talking about this episode, it is a good one.
I'm actually really looking forward to this, 'cause I was,
as we're preparing for this, I'mlike, oh man, I, I do that.
(02:09):
I do this. Yeah.
And so I'm really looking forward to diving.
Into this more than you do this.OK, why?
That's funny in a second. Yeah, I'm offended, but but this
is something too like we get asked sometimes, like do you
guys actually struggle with things in your relationship?
And we're like, of course we do.We're not hosting this.
That's why we have this podcast is not that we're experts and
professionals and. Whatever goes wrong?
(02:31):
Nothing ever goes wrong, even professionals, things go wrong.
We're just a couple that are intentional in our relationship.
We've been learning a lot, we'vebeen investing in a lot and
we've loved that and we want to pass that on and we want to
share that journey with you as you as you journey with us.
So today's topic is about score keeping.
All right, so this topic is going to be really important if
(02:53):
you are someone who has found yourself keeping track of those
little things in your mind, finding yourself being like you
never do this internally. There's internal stories as
internal checklists, sometimes not internal.
Some people write it down and you found a comparison or elite,
even some resentment building because of these things that
you're keeping score of. Or on the flip side of that, if
(03:15):
you're someone who has found yourself in a conversation with
your partner, suddenly having a list of things thrown at you or
resentment or anger built up over things that look small from
your perspective and just tryingto figure out what is going on.
I don't know what's happening. So if that is you, if you've
experienced any or all of the above, this conversations for
you, we're going to dive into some stories from Reddit and
(03:37):
we're going to talk about examples, real life examples of
people navigating scorekeeping in relationships, which is a
huge topic, definitely a universal topic.
And this is just a couple examples of how it might play
out, But hopefully a practical conversation that will help
workshop some of these things and give you some tools for
navigating it in your own relationship as well.
Yeah, I feel like we're now arguments or conversations
(03:59):
spiral out of control. It's because we're trying to
remember past things and we we bring that in and then we start
discussing that past figure and we go out and lose all these
random spaces. Before we get into this episode,
though, this is the last week before the storm.
Yeah, the storm. The Storm.
Come from away the. Coming of the storm from away.
Yeah, the storm that's coming from away.
(04:19):
Tell us about our last. What's coming up?
Yep. So as you would have heard over
the last few weeks, I'm going tobe in a production, a local
production called Come from Awayand playing the role of Bonnie,
ironically, which is the same name as our dog and only my cast
members only just found that outrecently.
I was just talking about Bonnie the dog.
I don't. I haven't really like connected.
Yeah. And then they're like Bonnie.
(04:40):
So I'm Bonnie, I'm Bonnie and come from away.
And we are preparing for our show week, getting into the
theatre, getting everything ready.
It is the rubber hitting the road right now.
Exciting stuff. If you're local, this is your
last reminder. Book a ticket.
Come see me on stage. Don't miss out.
Like, honestly, I am not a massive musical person.
You're gonna feel all the feels,right?
(05:01):
You're gonna feel frustrated, you're gonna feel sad, you're
gonna feel happy and laughter and like, it's.
It's so good. Guys.
Don't check. Don't what?
Don't check it out. Check it out.
Don't miss out. Yeah, it's really good.
Yeah, we'll put the link in the bio and in the show notes of
this episode as well. And if you have seen it, let us
(05:21):
know what do you think about theshow all?
Right, so let's dive into some stories, some Reddit stories,
real life people navigating scorekeeping as if you would.
How immature of them. Honey, we need to chat.
(05:44):
All right, this one is called. How do you stop yourself from
keeping score? And to be honest, I'm not sure.
Let's find out. Let me start by saying that my
partner and I generally get along very well.
I sometimes have problems with getting hung up on small,
usually petty things that will build up over time.
Things like items being returned, where they go,
clearing the dishwasher, garbagebags being replaced after a full
(06:07):
1 is removed. I can sum it up as the two of us
having different standards of how things are handled.
On occasion these normally pettythings become safety issues.
Twice our infant has gotten holdof garbage, a gum wrapper, a
piece of granola bar wrapper andtried to eat it and luckily I
was able to keep an eye on him so I could pull it out of his
mouth right away. These are choking hazards.
(06:28):
My main feeling is gratitude that my baby didn't choke, but
my secondary feeling is resentment that my partner
didn't properly throw this stuffaway to begin with.
How can I stop myself from mentally holding on to these
resentments? We talk about it, we I explain
my feelings, but sometimes the negativity lingers.
It then increases how I feel about petty things because I see
them as potential hazards. This is so relevant to us
(06:51):
because this is like I find hazards in every single I can
picture any hazard and I have. There's many things that I find
myself doing on a regular basis around the house just to avoid
hazards. So I've had to navigate this
internally because I also know that I overdo that.
So it's a really hard thing. And it's not something that you,
(07:13):
your brain does not work the same way in terms of anxiety or,
or that kind of hazard. You do have like a safety
mechanism and you had your, youridea of safety is very different
to mine. So it's something that I
definitely understand for sure. This is trigger warning, by the
way, this whole story trigger warning for kids and danger.
Yeah, you do. You do you approach these things
(07:33):
in a different way. But in saying that, I have
appreciated a lot of the ways that you approach things too.
So I've been learning a lot fromit's not even your anxiety.
I wouldn't say it's anxiety. It's just your safety mechanism.
But no, it's not even just that.It's your awareness of stuff
too, right? Because like, so for example,
and I know not everyone's for this and people like will be
like, that's over the top, but how you want grapes cut in half,
(07:58):
right? And at first I was like, why are
we cutting grapes in half for our kids?
Like what's the big deal? But then we see, we actually, I
remember seeing a little while ago now I was in the news like a
baby choked on a grape. I'm like, it's actually like
until I actually see the extremecircumstance in my head, I'm
like as if you would choke on a grape, like I don't doesn't make
(08:19):
sense to me. So you do come with a lot of
that and you've actually had to like you've actually shaped a
lot of my approach and appreciation of those safety
measures as well. But as this is probably
something that you more relate to besides of, how do you work
through that? Yeah, well, I'm having to work
on it from a mental health perspective as well, because I
(08:40):
really do get very obsessive over things like this, and I'm
looking into what might be goingon for me there.
My dad was the same. So I grew up with a dad that was
extremely protective of our safety and very anxious about
different things. And so I saw that and I've lived
that and now I'm seeing it in our oldest child.
So I'm navigating that as well as a mum, which is really just a
(09:01):
whole different journey. And so for me, it's a balance.
And usually I don't even know what kind of formula goes on in
my head, but I usually will be like, is this a relevant thing
to be worried about? South, for example, like if a
book is lying out on our tiles and the kids have left it there,
I'll often pick it up and move it because I can just see in my
head they're going to run aroundthe corner, stand on the book
(09:23):
slip and then hit their head. That's the kind of scenario that
plays out for me. If I was getting frustrated at
you because you didn't see the book and think that's a safety
hazard, I don't find that fair because that's my, I know that's
just my, like, brain that's on OverDrive ticking through
everything that could go wrong. If there's like, sometimes
you'll leave big sharp knives onthe edge of the counter.
(09:44):
Yeah. But that one, that one I do
agree with it. I want to get better.
No, I know that's what I was going to say is like that does
frustrate me because I don't get, I'm actually really not
frustrated, but but that's something I think.
No, you should be aware of that because our son like, yeah, very
easily can grab things. Yeah, and there's certain things
like that. So I, I didn't know what it is
that in my mind, it makes it relevant and makes it not
(10:04):
relevant. I think it's like, how likely is
this going to happen? But this is the thing, and I say
this all the time to you and to my close friends, it does my
head in because my brain will imagine something and then it
will happen. And then I'm like, that just
reinforces that I have to be so over the top with this stuff.
It's, it's extremely frustrating.
That's the whole journey I'm on as well.
But like, so the book thing, I have had times where I'm like,
(10:26):
don't worry about that book. It's fine next minute slip on
the book. So I just, I don't, I don't
know, to be honest, I don't know.
I think it, it really comes downto what's general safety.
So general safety, you've got a baby that's putting things in
their mouth. It's probably a good idea not to
leave things around. And that's general safety for
kids, especially if she's already said it and she's like,
(10:47):
hey, we really, I'm nervous about these things we're leaving
around. I've seen him choking on it
twice. We had our son rap.
This is trigger warning, by the way, this whole story trigger
warning for kids in danger. But we had our son when he was
in his room for his nap, wrap the cord of a blind around his
neck. And I just happened to think I
should go check on him. And I went and saw him with it.
(11:07):
And ever since then, it's just like triggered me massively with
blind chords. So now, like when we moved in
here, a lot of the chords there were the stupid blinds that like
aren't very safe at all. So I've changed all the ones
that are like in the kids area and then the ones in our room,
they're never he's well, the baby's never around without us
anyway. But it's just stuff like that,
(11:28):
that just it's general safety. You've seen something happen
like that was pretty intense when that happened with our
oldest son. And so now that's something that
is a general safety thing. I would expect you would be
watching out for blinds as well.And that's what we put in place.
I think a little bit comes down to experience too, right?
So when that happened with our oldest son, I don't think I was
around. You were at work?
Yeah, I remember calling you. So it's like that's going to be
(11:51):
so much more ingrained into yourhead where for me it's, it's
distant story, you know, it's not like something I've just
experienced, right? Or I've experienced and now it's
like that, that trio in me, whenever that happens, I was
like, well, oh, crap, that sucks.
You know, like, but I keep forgetting about it because I
just, I didn't have that experience.
I had the story. Yeah.
(12:11):
And I think that's probably a big thing.
Men, well got boys. Men are more generally just not
safety conscious. Yeah.
And I don't know what that. Is risk takers maybe?
Big. Well, yeah, but this isn't a
risk taking thing. It's.
Not afraid, yes, yeah, yeah, that's true.
I don't know what to categorise it as.
And that's probably, like I said, my dad was the one in in
(12:32):
my parents that were this way. So that's generalising.
But I think, yeah, for the most part.
And the other thing too is when you become a mum, your brain
like literally just switches. There's stuff we've talked about
mental load, emotional load, there's stuff that switches,
especially in the early years because you tend to be again,
generalising the one that's mainly keeping that baby living
because you've got the routine going, you're feeding them a lot
(12:55):
of the time. So you're probably and we also
go to a lot of maternal education.
So the great thing that was toldto me in my mother's group and
it was told to me from the the parenting pages I followed,
which are all women based safetypages.
So it and it's reinforcing, reinforced to me.
So that's why the grape thing for me straight away I was like,
yeah, I get that he's probably not gonna choke on them.
(13:16):
Takes 2 seconds to cut them in half, so let's just do that.
Yeah, and it's actually really good to be aware of like from
for our work perspective, right.So we both work for a nonprofit
organisation called Dads Group and it's about equipping dads
and educating dads on how to be like, how to confidently and
educated wise approach being a parent, you know, so it's not
all on mums like so when dads better, more supported and more
(13:38):
equipped, the whole family is actually more supported in that
time too. So that's actually really good
for from a work perspective of like, alright, well, even those
little things are really good for us to bring up.
Yeah. Fantastic. 500 ideas of how that
could work. Yeah, but that's great.
Yeah. But I will say, I think this is
that's one thing, right? Like we're talking about the
safety and your how your brains work and all that sort of stuff.
(13:59):
Then we're talking about how a couple navigates scorekeeping
because she's starting to scorekeep because of that.
And that's regardless of if thisis relevant to your
relationship. This is still like the
scorekeeping part of it is slightly different.
Yeah, Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
And I think the scorekeeping like, so she's talking here
about like she, you know, frustrated about how the garbage
(14:20):
wasn't thrown away properly and so forth.
And I've been trying to really think through this, like even
for myself now, how it's different for me because I work
from home, right? So I leave my office in our home
to our kitchen in our home. Like I don't have like a break
in a commute in between to really get myself in the
(14:41):
headspace of like I I'm enteringinto home life now and something
I actually want to get better atis just to take 10 minutes,
knock off work, take 10 minutes.Get in the car, get around,
Yeah. Well, like, you know, before I
leave my, my office, like alright, what, what, what am I
entering into? Because like with the knife
thing, I'm just so still in workmode, my mind is still ticking
(15:03):
off like, and it's like debriefing from the day.
I'm not because I go, I usually go, well, you and I share the
cooking side of things, but I'll, I'll sometimes just go
straight into cooking mode and I'm chopping stuff And but I'm
debriefing my day at the same time.
So I'm not really present and aware.
So it's something I've got to bebetter at.
But for you, if you like, for our listener, if you're driving
(15:23):
home, if you're a male and you're driving home, try and get
into that headspace. You know, I think this is just,
you know, it's not to be like, oh, you're doing all of these
things wrong, but how can we equip ourselves and prepare
ourselves when we get home? What are the things that have
been that we want to be more aware of and prepare for that,
mentally prepared for that? And when we get home, we're
going to be a lot more availablefor that.
(15:45):
But the scorekeeping part is hard.
That's again, we've we've definitely struggled with that a
bit. When we get into that argument,
we go around in circles and thenwe scorekeep.
We bring something up from but you do this or you did that and
then we go off on a whole. I remember the last time we did
this and it happens nearly everytime.
I can't remember or how we got on to that and it's usually
(16:06):
because and after like post reflecting, it's usually because
of scorekeeping. Yeah, and what's also really
funny is almost every time scorekeeping comes into the
argument, we both have kept score for the same thing,
thinking the other person is notdoing it.
It's just like, insane. Actually, the last time we had
that, like the last argument, we.
Had I think that about you and you think that about me and it's
(16:28):
just like, wow. And I think that's part of it is
score keeping starts to morph your your perception of what's
happening because yes, maybe he's left garbage around.
And this is something I really struggle with as well is like
sometimes I've been like, you know, we've talked about phones,
for example. So we've talked about how being
(16:50):
on the phones around the kids issomething that's we don't want
to do very often. And sometimes when I know that
you're like aware of me being onmy phone, in my mind, I go into
this whole thing like, yeah, butyou haven't been, you haven't
seen me all the times I haven't been on it.
It's just this time you've walked in and see me on it.
And so and it's like, even though like then that comes with
all its layers as well. It's like score keeping is your
(17:12):
perception of what is happening to this person, but it's not
even an accurate one all the time because you're already
frustrated and you're picking up, You're not seeing the things
that are happening when you're not there.
You're and you're also picking up so much more because your
brain is frustrated. And I've found myself like
irritated about all these things.
Then we'll have a discussion about another like a more
(17:34):
important kind of foundational thing.
Those things just disappear. It's like I'm not actually
frustrated at the knife on the side of the counter or the
whatever it might be. I I'm just frustrated because I
felt disrespected and we had that conversation where I feel
unconnected and we had that conversation and then everything
eases. Yeah.
So it's not even accurate even when you're like looking at the
(17:54):
stuff. And with gone let's let's just
we're gonna dive into that our last agreement a disagreement
really quickly. So again, post reflection of
this, I remember I was getting frustrated at you because you're
on your phone a lot. And you said to me, it's like,
yeah, but you're on your phone too.
Around the kids. I'm like, no, but but for me,
what I'm doing, I'm having intentional time of leading my
(18:15):
phone in my room. So like I catch myself when I'm
being on my phone and I'm like, I don't want to do this.
We decided we didn't want to do this.
And then I'll put something in place.
I see that. I don't see your things.
You. See your intention now?
Exactly, I see my intention. I don't see your intentionality.
So the scorekeeping, like you said, is not accurate because
all I see is my perspective. Yeah.
We haven't had a conversation about this.
(18:36):
We haven't. This isn't a verbal decision
that I've made to be intentional.
Leave my phone in my room. It doesn't come out of the
office, whatever. And that's what I've done.
And that's all internal. I haven't shared that with you.
There's been no verbal thing andvice versa.
So all I see is what I see. And that's not accurate.
That's not the complete pictures.
Yeah. Scorekeeping is not an accurate
reflection. Sometimes it is.
(18:56):
Sometimes it is. Like when it's like, alright,
you've never ever, ever, ever done the dishes in your life.
Like that's, that's something you can score, but it's not
Scorekeeping is not a productiveprocess of an argument or trying
to get. To something or.
Gathering information or using as a weapon, it's really a bit
like really coming down to the core issue.
(19:16):
I saw when I was looking at whatstories to use, one of them was
anyone who says scorekeeping isn't fair is just lazy and
trying to get away with things. And I was like, interesting
perspective. I don't think that's fully true.
But but The thing is, so you like the example of never doing
the dishes. For example, you could be like,
I've never seen you ever do the dishes.
(19:37):
And that might be accurate. Like you might be correct about
never doing the dishes. The issue with score keeping is
the attitude that it puts on your heart and the the way that
you're presenting it. So it'd be one thing for me to
go to go to you and say I would love some help with the dishes.
I've noticed you don't do the dishes and I do them every time.
(19:58):
So I would love some help. But then there has to be more
curiosity because why does someone never do the dishes?
That is an excuse that they like.
There might be some, you know, they never had to do them at
home. They don't actually understand
how to do it or they're mentallyjust really struggling and
they're not in a good headspace or they just don't see it and
they didn't even realise that you didn't like do it.
Like there could be 500 reasons.And so to just be like, you
(20:20):
never do the dishes, you need todo the dishes, which is kind of
what score keeping does is it presents like this is what I do,
this is what you do. And it almost always comes with
resentment. It's just not a productive
conversation. And yes, you might be right, but
that doesn't mean that your yourway that you're presenting into
that conversation or the way you're using that information is
(20:42):
helpful. If you, if you're, if your goal
of that conversation is to be right or to get something off
your chest, sure, go for it. And I can guarantee you it's not
going to end up well, it's not going to be effective.
You're just going to get like stonewalling back or you know,
any of the other or resentment or just, you know, you're going
to get a fight. And but if your result, if your
goal is to actually improving that relationship and actually
(21:05):
get help, it's like, you know, don't don't just do score
keeping or something to be yeah,I'm effective.
It's interesting though, becausethis is so she says she's had
this conversation with him multiple times and and it is so
like we've just said, score keeping is not effective.
We always do it. So it's it's such a common thing
to be like this happens all the time.
(21:26):
And I've already asked you not to do this.
And so it is a relevant thing. One thing I've really tried to
figure out is where is the balance between score keeping or
becoming nitpicky? Like where does it happen?
Where all of a sudden? Because even the other day we're
talking about the phones again. We had this conversation about
phones and then I saw you playing a game on your phone
when you're with the kids. And I was like, what are you
doing on your phone? And I was thinking in my head, I
(21:48):
was like, I'm not frustrated at you being on your phone right
now, but you are on your phone when you're with the kids.
So in my mind, I'm like, do I say something so that I'm just
saying just so you know, like this is me pointing out that
you're on your phone around the kids, or do I just remember he
was on the on the phone the other day when he was with the
kids? Or do I just not do anything
with it? And it's a really hard thing to
(22:10):
know that navigation because it that's how I like, I don't know
what the balance is like. I don't know where that comes
in. Well, what what you've done, I'm
going to say what you've actually done well is the times
where you say, remember when youget frustrated with the kids
while and you're being distracted on your phone, like
looking at what what's the reason for that?
So. What's the damage?
What's the? Damage for it like what you have
(22:32):
done in the past is is generallysay hey like if I have got
frustrated like hey remember like you might be a bit
distracted on your phone, which is why you get.
Frustrated is why I get frustrated as which is.
So accurate and I know that and.But this is the thing though.
You're doing this based off. This isn't just a out of the
blue random comment. This is something that we're
(22:52):
both aware of. So we've actually done work in
our conversations and trying to improve on this.
And so you can speak into something that we're already
working on. If if this is the first time
you're saying it, like probably that's not the time to say it.
And then later bringing it up and be like, Hey, I would really
love us to work on this when I'mnot on my phone and you know,
(23:13):
like. Yeah, I think that's probably
key is not maybe not in the moment.
I still don't know exactly the balance because not in the
moment is better because you being on your phone and me
coming up and being like you're on your phone, which I don't
you've. Done it in a moment gently.
And I'm like, that's right. And it's reminding me.
But again, this is because this is a continuation of a
conversation that we've had likethose times.
(23:34):
It's fine. So I think if this lady just to
try and bring because we're having a massive conversation
around this, which is good, but the story's gone into the
distance. This lady, I think there would
be a validity to her. Now she's expressed it to him
that it's a concern of hers. She's had a reason for it to be
concerned. Like he's choked on it multiple
Times Now. I think there would be a
(23:54):
validity to her seeing him leaving something if she sees
him and then in the moment addressing it, be like, do you
mind popping that in the bin? Because last time baby choked on
it? Or even me, like just a reminder
to pop that in the bin. Like if if they've had the
conversation specifically about that, if she's able to do it
gently in that moment, there might be validity there because
it's like on top of already having the conversation, he's
(24:15):
already been made aware and he'sstill not doing what she's asked
him to. Or like if it continues having
that conversation be like, is there like, how do you feel
about me being concerned about this?
Like is, do you not think that it's valid or Yeah, is there
something else going on? I was going to say, I think
that's a better approach only because if it's still reliant on
her to say just remember, just. From that's 100%.
(24:37):
Sucks that's not a long term solution, absolutely, but it
does. If I guess what's the trade off,
Either she does that and she canget it out of her head straight
away and address it straight away, or it starts to become to
build into this resentment. She's talking about where she
is. Just like he did it again, I put
it in the bin, he did it again, I've put it in the bin.
I that's where I don't know. I don't know where the balance
is. What I would say is to get it
(24:58):
off her head like the first response.
Yes, but I needs that follow up conversation.
Yeah, like. That's what it needs.
So if it's like, if there's no plan for that follow up
conversation, I think that's where the damage is.
But if you're like, cool, I was going to get the centre of my
head. Hey, this in the bin and like,
knowing to yourself you're gonnaspeak about this later is really
important. Yeah, you just gonna give him
permission and he's gonna keep on being like.
(25:19):
Oh, you'll enable exactly. Yeah, Yeah.
So let's move on to the next story anyway, 'cause I think all
of these will have similar kind of vibes, but the just a little
prompt to like make these stories a bit more immediately
applicable to us. A little prompt to think about
is where is a place or a space that you feel you need to
scorekeep? What is something that you're
needing to scorekeep regularly for your partner?
(25:39):
And a little flip side of that, just in case you're on the other
side of this a lot of the time is what's something that your
partner has raised with you multiple times that maybe you're
continuing to forget that you can start to put things in place
for. So let's dive into story #2
relationships are supposed to beabout give and take, right?
Am I score keeping too much? So my girlfriend and I are in a
(26:00):
big fight and I could use some advice.
Basically, whenever we go out and it's my idea to go out, I
will pay. I don't do it because I have to.
I do it because I know she'll like it and it'll make her
happy. But whenever it's her idea to go
out, it's always we'll pay separately.
In six months, she's paid for one drink, one shot, one slice
of pizza. I asked her about it and she
said that she doesn't have much money because she doesn't work a
(26:22):
lot. So I'm like, OK, that's fine.
But then the other night she mentions how she's going to
Toronto in May for a week with her girlfriends.
I'm kind of like, you can afforda $700.00 trip but you can't,
goodness forbid, pay for our dinner once in a while or Take
Me Out. Then she starts saying how I am
keeping score and it shouldn't be about that but like as a guy
I like having things to tell my friends about what my girlfriend
(26:44):
did for me but I don't have any of those kinds of stories, am I
wrong? First of all, he just ended up
with showing that there's so much more going on than.
Just so not. Paying for food.
And he has absolutely kept score, 'cause he's like 1 drink,
one shot, one in six months. The list, he's got a list going
on. Although it does also sound like
(27:04):
they have had that conversation.He's asked her about it and she
said it's 'cause she doesn't have much money.
So I do understand when you've had that conversation and it's
not addressed, it's it's tough, but yeah, if.
I also picked this, this conversation apart.
There's a difference between like a trip and shouting meals,
right? Like, so there's a difference
there, you know, for you and I and the life saves you.
(27:25):
We're in the priority of self care and, and even a holiday is
really important, right? And, and the holidays not
regular at all, but our holidayshave been like a day off, like
there's been a holiday. So just that self care sort of
stuff is really, really important, man.
Look, when I was younger and didn't have money, that sucks,
(27:46):
right? Like, yeah, it's, it's a hard
time. Like, yeah, you've got a, you've
got a budget if you're eating out a lot.
Like that's, that sucks. The real issue here, I believe,
is not the fact that she's not paying even that they'll be
contributing to, like he said, the very end here.
As a guy, I like having things to tell my friends about what my
girlfriend did for me, but I don't have any of those kinds of
(28:07):
stories. I think that's, that's the
bigger issue here. I think the way that he's
approaching it, he's, he's identifying 1 area scorekeeping.
And you just see her response. It's not, it's not received
well. It's like, you know, it's like
it's not. He's not caught discussing the
core issue here. He's just trying to grab
something and say like, see, I'mdoing this and you're doing
(28:27):
that. Yeah, I think this is a love
language issue. I think he's probably not
feeling loved in the way that heis loving, which is he'll give
her a gift of food. I don't it'd be interesting to
know if he's explained that to her.
Like I would like to thank you because I've asked you to go out
kind of thing. And then if he's explained the
flip side of that, like, I don'tfeel very loved when you don't
do this. And then and then the I found it
(28:50):
funny that he said, as a guy, I like to tell my friends what my
girlfriend's done for me. It's like everybody probably
likes to be like. I was going to say, I wonder
how. I wonder how young this guy is.
Yeah, he didn't say his ages arethere, but it's an expectations
thing. And there's so many, this
specific topic, there would be so many things that could play
(29:10):
into why she's not paying and why he feels like he will when
he takes her out. Like what you grew up with, like
the traditional parts of your family, what you've experienced
in previous relationships, what the expectations were like.
I found it really interesting when we started dating, you paid
all the time when we went out and I, I remember our first date
was sort of like a hangout, not really a full date date.
(29:33):
We went to woollies and got foodto make at your house.
It's a grocery store and you went to pay.
I was the whole time. I'm like, I don't really have
much money, but I also was like,I will pay for part of this, but
you just paid and I felt really uncomfortable because I was
like, thank you. But I was also like, well, I
don't know how to navigate these.
Like I just don't know what expectations are.
I hadn't had that kind of a relationship.
(29:55):
I'd only been in like the you both pay for yourself kind of
relationship before. And so but you were very, very
much like, you know, pay and that's just how you navigated
our relationship. So it was an interesting
transition and it is a conversation every couple needs
to have. Like that's expectations and
what people bring in to relationships and you need to
find what works for you. And there's no right or wrong
there. It's just expectations.
(30:16):
But if you don't have the conversation clearly, then the
expectations get misunderstood or they they get mismatched.
And your expectations and your assumptions about why someone's
doing something or the score keeping thing really impacts how
you navigate it. Because to him, she's showing
him he's not important to her and that, you know, he's not a
(30:37):
priority because she's prioritising going away, which I
also agree with you, I don't, I think that's just a priorities
thing. And she maybe they haven't had
that conversation about what theexpectations are about who's
paying for things. And some people think the guy
always pays or the person who earns more money always pays.
And that's not just a given. You have to have that
conversation. And then the love, love
(31:00):
languages, like maybe he doesn'teven know what love languages
are. He just knows that he's not
feeling loved. Yeah.
So exploring why, why does this make you feel unloved?
Like, why does this feel like a let down in terms of what you
have to tell your friends? And then instead of it being a
score keeping thing, let it be aconversation that helps you
understand each other better. And we've got an episode on on
expectations as well. So if you haven't checked that
(31:22):
out, go check that out. To go speaks a lot into this
space and I think it's again, it's really important when we
fight, when we catch ourselves scorekeeping against the other
person, like internally, not verbally, like reflect on that a
little bit here too, because I can see this, you know, you
never know the sorts of things that are impacting that
scorekeeping. So for this guy, it could be
(31:42):
he's had a previous relationshipthat's, you know, triggered
something here and whatever else.
There's so many things that can go into this scorekeeping.
It's it's, it could be a love language, it could be an unmet
need. It could be like, you know,
previous triggers coming into the conversation, you're fearful
that that's going to happen again or whatever else.
So the the importance of your own self reflection and and
(32:04):
digging into those irritations abit more, having attitude of
curiosity for yourself is reallyimportant.
Yeah, and a little prompt to just think about.
And I think this is important when it comes to scorekeeping.
Are you asking for recognition or are you asking for fairness?
Because there's two different things.
So sometimes I find myself keeping score and it's not
because I want you to do what I'm doing, it's just more I want
(32:27):
you to be aware of what I'm doing.
And it's really hard in when you're especially with parents
and that kind of thing, when your parents, the things you do
that you never that never get noticed and there's going to be
things you do for your partner that never get noticed.
And that's part of relationshipsand it's just part of loving and
sacrifice. But are you asking for fairness
because you want it to be fair? Or is he asking for recognition
(32:49):
because he wants it to be recognised what he's given and
like the gift that he's giving? And can you express that?
Clearly, we're gonna dig into scorekeeping, we're gonna
continue on that conversation ina bit, but I just wanted to take
a moment here to share a little bit more about what we're doing
on this podcast. We, you know, we are a podcast,
we do love to discuss these things, but our aim is to bring
(33:11):
so much more than just noise into the online sphere, right?
We, we really want to be bringing impact.
And and so something Amy's actually really started is her
her coaching classes and coursesthat she's come out with.
So that is next chapter coaching.
You check that out at next chapter coaching.com dot AU.
Cool. And if you like what is
(33:31):
coaching, I really highly recommend for you guys to go
check out last week's episode, which is what's driving you.
Amy takes me through. So she actually coaches me to
give an example of what that looks like.
And you know, I honestly didn't know what our conversation was
going to be like. I didn't know what she was
planning on doing, but I we've been referring back to that
episode, not that episode, but just.
(33:52):
The session the. Session since right we've just
been continually coming back to that and so eye opening and I've
just felt so much more clarity and confidence in understanding
myself and understanding situations.
So in that episode we're talkingabout how a big drive for me is
control like I just need to knowcontrol and we've had these
(34:14):
different scenarios come up in our relationship even recently
and then we've we've continued those conversations and I've
come straight back she's like, Oh yeah, OK, because of my need
of control not controlling, but I need to have that plan I need
to know where is this coming from I need this clarity thank
you that's a better way of saying it, which is what you did
talk about in the episode. I need this clarity and where
(34:36):
that comes from and we've just, it's been able to really dive
into our conversation. So if you want to know more
about coaching and what that could look like for you, go
check out that episode of What'sDriving You the episode 48.
And also go check out Amy's website nextchaptercoaching.com
dot AU dot. AU dot AU, Let's go back to.
(34:57):
Let's get back into it. All right, Story 3.
Can a marriage be saved when resentment takes over?
I see lots of posts about partners being angry or abusive
but I feel like I'm on the otherside of the situation.
My husband works a lot. He's a developer and he says he
has ADHD so he struggles to multitask.
He also has some conspiracy beliefs which adds another layer
(35:19):
of tension. I on the other hand, know I have
anger issues. I work full time then come home
to cook and take care of our child.
He's slowly moving and does far less than I do, but insists we
divide things equally because hetakes our child to nursery in
the mornings. I only agreed to start working
earlier so I can spend more timewith our child in the evenings.
On weekends I'm usually the one waking up early while he sleeps
(35:40):
until 10:50 AM, then goes for a run and takes long showers.
He used to be a soft, kind person, but I've always been
angry because I felt like he wasn't doing enough.
He tells me that no matter what he does, I always find something
to be unhappy about and honestlyI think he's right.
Our child is 2 1/2 and reading so many posts here I can't see
any other outcome but divorced down the line.
We still care about each other but he started being verbally
(36:03):
harsh in response to my constantanger and he constantly tells me
I'm depressed and that it's bad for our child.
Meanwhile he comes from a happy family where his mom did
everything and then still thinksher kids are perfect.
I know a lot of parents say theystayed for the sake of their
child. We'd love to have a second baby
but my anger makes that impossible and I'm over 40 which
makes it even harder. Is it better to separate now or
(36:24):
later? Has anyone been in a similar
situation and actually managed to change things and save the
marriage? That's a really sad story.
Yeah, it's heavy. It's very heavy and I'm not
going to answer that last question that they have and we
can't. No, and I just don't want to.
But the first thing is all right, She's identified her
struggle, identified his struggle.
(36:46):
It still seems like she's not focusing on her struggle though.
Like it's, it's purely on his struggle, which is the score
keeping, right? Like he does this, this, this
and this. This is what I need.
But he does this, this and this and this.
I struggle with anger, I admit that, but he struggles with this
and this. And I just think it's, it's a
game like what school keeping does is it keeps our eyes
focused on the other person. You know what I mean?
(37:07):
It it reduces our ability to focus on ourselves because we're
so concerned. About that.
Person what some of the biggest times that I've been, I guess,
motivated to work on myself is when I say you work on yourself,
not that it's reliant on you, but it's empowering, right?
When you work on your things, like we celebrate that.
Oh man, I want to, you know, I get pumped up.
(37:29):
I'm like, yeah, I want to do something too.
And then I start focusing on myself as well.
And it's just those it's just the the teamwork element there,
but it's it's, it's like they'velost that and it's just that
blame game on the other person. I think it's just really needs
to come back to, well, focus on yourself first, Work on those
things, your anger. Like I've had anger issues for
years and it's like, yeah, I've had to be really intentional
(37:50):
with that. And me focusing on that has
actually calmed things down for us to focus on other areas.
But I actually had to focus on that first before we could
address other areas. Yeah, well, anger's a pattern.
It's a it's a pattern and a reaction.
And I think people personality wise and just, you know,
situation wise have tendencies towards anger or avoidance and
that kind of thing. But it's still a pattern that
(38:11):
can change, but it doesn't change until you reshape your
brain like you need to get help and assistance with this.
And it's a repetitive like action against, like choosing to
react differently and choosing to reinforce the neural pathways
that are not your default response, which is anger.
And we've spoken on here and I speak in my, my coaching all the
(38:34):
time about this. Your brain will feed you the
information that you tell it youwant.
It'll feed you the information you're focusing on.
It gathers evidence for what you're telling it is happening
or what you're telling it is important to you.
It will gather that evidence andit will block out the evidence
that is opposing that. So if she's constantly like, you
know, he doesn't do this, he doesn't do this after time.
(38:57):
The reason score keeping is likeyou've just said, the reason
it's so damaging is you're actually feeding into your brain
a philtre that you want to only see what they're not doing
because that's what you're focusing on.
That's what you're stuck in. You've got this negativity bias
going on in your brain. You're only focusing on their
failings and that's just going to get reinforced and
reinforced. It's not going to be accurate
anymore. It's not going to show you the
(39:19):
things he is doing, the good things about him, the good
things about your relationship. It's literally going to philtre
that out and only focus on thosethings.
So these are patterns that have reinforced and reinforced and
reinforced. I fully believe these patterns
can just like be transformed. I really believe they can takes
a lot of work. And the problem is you have to
(39:40):
be willing to do that work. The thing with the anger, that's
going to be something she's going to have to navigate
regardless of if they stay together or not.
Like that's not something that just magically goes away because
he's away. And I'll carry on, if she gets
another relationship it'll carryon.
So for her to focus on when do Iseparate is the wrong thing to
focus on at this? Stage of the Yeah, that's
actually like. That's just one situation in
(40:01):
this. It's not the marriage isn't even
the fix. Yeah, it's a pattern that she
has to work on. And I really believe that the
more you're focusing on it, likethe more your anger is driving
your way, you're reading life around you and driving your
reactions, the less you're goingto see the the value in the in
person and partner. And so she might feel like it's
hopeless right now, but I think a lot of that would be through
(40:22):
that philtre of the anger. And it's really interesting to
see, she even notes that he usedto be a soft, kind person and
now he's harsh in response. And that's just a very good
indication of how these patternscan change the vibe of your
relationship. She's not responsible for his
responses. She's not to blame.
He's still responsible for those.
But you can just see how it wears down on your partner.
(40:44):
This is very, like you said, a very sad story.
And it's, but it's something she's going to have to work on
regardless of if she stays with him or not.
And it's something that she's going to have to work on in her
parenting because this is what akid is seeing is an appropriate
response. First and foremost.
My suggestion in this situation would be get counselling for
yourself, not marriage counselling at this stage.
(41:05):
I think that's the secondary. I think the counselling for
yourself is this the first? The other, I think the big
reason for that too, is to help shift that focus.
You know, I really think that shift needs to be on herself
1st. And like, mine has been, you
know, yours has been. If we can't focus on ourselves,
if we can only focus on the other person, that's the first
shift. Because even if we went to
(41:25):
marriage counselling, I'd still be focusing on all the stuff
that you. Yeah, were doing.
Yeah. Right, so that you'd be trying
to fix the marriage, which is a,which at that stage is a result
of your patterns. Yeah, yeah, and his for sure
not, not. Like yours in both of you
separately, your own patterns. Yeah, exactly.
Definitely value in working on it.
Yeah. These kinds of things.
(41:45):
I think the moment you show intentionality is kind of like
the phone thing. It's all well and good for you
to be like, what are we doing and be like trying to work on it
internally, figure out what's going on, what's best, what's
the next move, that kind of thing.
The moment you can communicate with your partner about what's
going on in your head and your intentions for why you're
working on these things. Like like, like if she decides
(42:08):
to do counselling or something like that.
And she says to him, I really need to get on top of this.
I really want to get on top of my anger and I'm aware of what
I'm struggling with and I'm going to put intentional work
into this. It just like it doesn't fix
everything, but the, it just eases that like cloud that hangs
over the relationship and sets an intention for which direction
you're moving towards. And I think having that
(42:29):
conversation would be a game changer in and of itself.
Just a little prompt for us, as well as what is score keeping
doing to the way that I'm viewing my relationship?
What is my resentment and my score keeping doing to the way
I'm seeing my partner or the wayI feel about our relationship?
And is there an attitude shift Ican do there internally to help?
(42:50):
Because the moment you start to shift that attitude and that
response, the moment there feelslike this forward motion, If
you're stuck in that like negative, you don't see the path
forward and it's really hard to feel any kind of hope.
And they said in the Gutman's 4 Horsemen, they say that
contempt, which is the same as this resentment, is the biggest
(43:10):
indicator of marriage crisis. Basically, once you get to that
resentment stage, that's the biggest indicator of marriage
crisis because it's so hard to see outside of it.
And we we've got an episode on the Four Horsemen as well
earlier on, so check that out. Yeah.
So this has been score keeping, three very different stories
talking about a similar topic and score keeping will have
(43:32):
played out differently for you in your relationship.
It's played out differently for us, but I think it's a huge
topic in relationships and something that happens without
even being named. So you can be score keeping and
almost just ignoring that this is a behaviour you have.
So there's so many layers to it is score keeping because you're
feeling whatever you're feeling is unfair or unjust or
(43:53):
unrecognised in your relationship, which is valid and
it's a valid conversation I have.
But the score keeping behaviour is a whole issue on its own.
And so until we can name that, oh, actually maybe I struggle
with score keeping potentially for valid reasons.
Until you can name that, it's hard to recognise it and put
things in place. And I think it is a really
important pattern to address. It's an important pattern to
(44:16):
address and then to address why it's happening as well.
But addressing that you are someone struggling with score,
score keeping is really important for the forward
movement of your relationship. So good chat.
We're going to move into realitycheck corner, which is where we
make this practical for you and us today.
We can apply this today and put these things into place.
(44:37):
Very low, low risk, low effort, but something that we can apply
really quickly. So this is not just something
you've heard and you can push off into the background.
It can become practical and impact your life.
So I've got a few prompts here I'm just going to read out.
And these are things I'd love for us to just think about for
ourselves and take a second to to kind of assess where we are
out with them each as individuals.
(44:58):
So am I keeping score because I don't feel seen?
Is there a reoccurring moment that leaves me feeling quietly
resentful? What would it look like to name
one of those moments calmly and clearly this week?
So a little challenge to follow on from that is pick one small
thing that you've been mentally tallying, like who initiates
affection or who tidies up firstor who listens most, and say
(45:19):
something simple about it without heat.
So find a moment, set aside a time to bring up something that
you're struggling with and just address it gently and with
curiosity. Have that conversation rather
than letting it build up. And my other suggestion would be
address that you're score keeping as well.
So be honest about that and say,I'm finding myself in this
pattern I don't like, but I'm also feeling really hurt and
(45:41):
unseen because of this. So just find that conversation
and have it gently and curiouslywith your partner.
And just a quick future pace, we're going to take a moment to
just picture a future we'd like to work towards in our
relationship, Something that gives us forward motion.
It's the opposite of that resentment when we don't want to
stay stuck in these patterns, feeling hopeless.
We want to picture moving forward in this and we've got
(46:03):
movements we can take forward. So just take a moment, take a
deep breath and close your eyes while I read this out.
And I'd love for you to picture this as clearly as you can.
So imagine it's a few weeks fromnow and instead of bottling it
up, you're starting to name things gently in the moment.
No scoreboard, no emotional backlog.
It's just clarity. You're noticing when something
(46:24):
matters and you're brave enough to say it out loud.
It's not perfect, but it's healthier, it's more honest, and
the tone of your relationship feels lighter.
Maybe you're finally on the sameteam again.
All right, so this is score keeping.
Great, that was a good one. It was so applicable and so
relevant and I think everyone struggles with this.
It's going to be relevant to anyone.
So again, if you got something out of this, please share it on
(46:45):
because I can guarantee you it won't just be for you.
But yeah, thank you so much for tuning in, guys.
Great chat and we'll catch you next week.
See ya. Bye.
The more your anger is driving your way, you're reading life
around you and driving your reactions, the less you're going
to see the the value in your person partner.
And so she might feel like it's hopeless right now, but I think
a lot of that would be through that philtre of that anger.
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Honey, We
Need to Chat. Welcome, welcome.
This is the podcast where we discuss all things communication
(00:23):
in a relationship. We also explore a lot of stuff
for ourselves in ways that we can grow and just be aware of
our own needs or how we even approach that conversation.
So it's not even just a matter of how we communicate together,
but how we come individually to that conversation too, to bring
a greater and stronger conversation, but also
relationship. You know, you're going to grow
(00:44):
and relationship in the way thatyou can communicate, you're
gonna get a lot of benefits fromthat.
So that's what we do here. And if you are new here today,
my name is Blair's, my wife Amy.Amy is a coach where she
discusses a lot of these things and helps women in this area
quite a lot. And on the floor, which you
can't see right now, is our sleeping golden retriever,
Bonnie, who loves to hang out with us.
(01:04):
Well, as as we record, yes. Yes, yeah.
But something about you, you click on this episode actually
tells us a lot about you. It tells us that you are
intentional about yourself. You want to grow, you want to
improve, you want to invest in your relationship and the way
that you communicate in the way that you approach those
conversations, either tricky or positive or whatever else.
(01:26):
And that's really exciting to usbecause we are on a journey for
growth. Amy and I are on a journey for
growth. So the fact that we get to do
that with you is really encouraging and exciting.
So thank you so much for tuning in today.
And if you want to please, like if you get anything from this
episode, share, like, subscribe,comment, all that helps us out
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(01:47):
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know, the growth of yourself andthe support for you.
So that's that's actually fantastic.
Just give them a thumbs up too and, and share it on to someone
else as well that may benefit from this episode.
Talking about this episode, it is a good one.
I'm actually really looking forward to this, 'cause I was,
as we're preparing for this, I'mlike, oh man, I, I do that.
(02:09):
I do this. Yeah.
And so I'm really looking forward to diving.
Into this more than you do this.OK, why?
That's funny in a second. Yeah, I'm offended, but but this
is something too like we get asked sometimes, like do you
guys actually struggle with things in your relationship?
And we're like, of course we do.We're not hosting this.
That's why we have this podcast is not that we're experts and
professionals and. Whatever goes wrong?
(02:31):
Nothing ever goes wrong, even professionals, things go wrong.
We're just a couple that are intentional in our relationship.
We've been learning a lot, we'vebeen investing in a lot and
we've loved that and we want to pass that on and we want to
share that journey with you as you as you journey with us.
So today's topic is about score keeping.
All right, so this topic is going to be really important if
(02:53):
you are someone who has found yourself keeping track of those
little things in your mind, finding yourself being like you
never do this internally. There's internal stories as
internal checklists, sometimes not internal.
Some people write it down and you found a comparison or elite,
even some resentment building because of these things that
you're keeping score of. Or on the flip side of that, if
(03:15):
you're someone who has found yourself in a conversation with
your partner, suddenly having a list of things thrown at you or
resentment or anger built up over things that look small from
your perspective and just tryingto figure out what is going on.
I don't know what's happening. So if that is you, if you've
experienced any or all of the above, this conversations for
you, we're going to dive into some stories from Reddit and
(03:37):
we're going to talk about examples, real life examples of
people navigating scorekeeping in relationships, which is a
huge topic, definitely a universal topic.
And this is just a couple examples of how it might play
out, But hopefully a practical conversation that will help
workshop some of these things and give you some tools for
navigating it in your own relationship as well.
Yeah, I feel like we're now arguments or conversations
(03:59):
spiral out of control. It's because we're trying to
remember past things and we we bring that in and then we start
discussing that past figure and we go out and lose all these
random spaces. Before we get into this episode,
though, this is the last week before the storm.
Yeah, the storm. The Storm.
Come from away the. Coming of the storm from away.
Yeah, the storm that's coming from away.
(04:19):
Tell us about our last. What's coming up?
Yep. So as you would have heard over
the last few weeks, I'm going tobe in a production, a local
production called Come from Awayand playing the role of Bonnie,
ironically, which is the same name as our dog and only my cast
members only just found that outrecently.
I was just talking about Bonnie the dog.
I don't. I haven't really like connected.
Yeah. And then they're like Bonnie.
(04:40):
So I'm Bonnie, I'm Bonnie and come from away.
And we are preparing for our show week, getting into the
theatre, getting everything ready.
It is the rubber hitting the road right now.
Exciting stuff. If you're local, this is your
last reminder. Book a ticket.
Come see me on stage. Don't miss out.
Like, honestly, I am not a massive musical person.
You're gonna feel all the feels,right?
(05:01):
You're gonna feel frustrated, you're gonna feel sad, you're
gonna feel happy and laughter and like, it's.
It's so good. Guys.
Don't check. Don't what?
Don't check it out. Check it out.
Don't miss out. Yeah, it's really good.
Yeah, we'll put the link in the bio and in the show notes of
this episode as well. And if you have seen it, let us
(05:21):
know what do you think about theshow all?
Right, so let's dive into some stories, some Reddit stories,
real life people navigating scorekeeping as if you would.
How immature of them. Honey, we need to chat.
(05:44):
All right, this one is called. How do you stop yourself from
keeping score? And to be honest, I'm not sure.
Let's find out. Let me start by saying that my
partner and I generally get along very well.
I sometimes have problems with getting hung up on small,
usually petty things that will build up over time.
Things like items being returned, where they go,
clearing the dishwasher, garbagebags being replaced after a full
(06:07):
1 is removed. I can sum it up as the two of us
having different standards of how things are handled.
On occasion these normally pettythings become safety issues.
Twice our infant has gotten holdof garbage, a gum wrapper, a
piece of granola bar wrapper andtried to eat it and luckily I
was able to keep an eye on him so I could pull it out of his
mouth right away. These are choking hazards.
(06:28):
My main feeling is gratitude that my baby didn't choke, but
my secondary feeling is resentment that my partner
didn't properly throw this stuffaway to begin with.
How can I stop myself from mentally holding on to these
resentments? We talk about it, we I explain
my feelings, but sometimes the negativity lingers.
It then increases how I feel about petty things because I see
them as potential hazards. This is so relevant to us
(06:51):
because this is like I find hazards in every single I can
picture any hazard and I have. There's many things that I find
myself doing on a regular basis around the house just to avoid
hazards. So I've had to navigate this
internally because I also know that I overdo that.
So it's a really hard thing. And it's not something that you,
(07:13):
your brain does not work the same way in terms of anxiety or,
or that kind of hazard. You do have like a safety
mechanism and you had your, youridea of safety is very different
to mine. So it's something that I
definitely understand for sure. This is trigger warning, by the
way, this whole story trigger warning for kids and danger.
Yeah, you do. You do you approach these things
(07:33):
in a different way. But in saying that, I have
appreciated a lot of the ways that you approach things too.
So I've been learning a lot fromit's not even your anxiety.
I wouldn't say it's anxiety. It's just your safety mechanism.
But no, it's not even just that.It's your awareness of stuff
too, right? Because like, so for example,
and I know not everyone's for this and people like will be
like, that's over the top, but how you want grapes cut in half,
(07:58):
right? And at first I was like, why are
we cutting grapes in half for our kids?
Like what's the big deal? But then we see, we actually, I
remember seeing a little while ago now I was in the news like a
baby choked on a grape. I'm like, it's actually like
until I actually see the extremecircumstance in my head, I'm
like as if you would choke on a grape, like I don't doesn't make
(08:19):
sense to me. So you do come with a lot of
that and you've actually had to like you've actually shaped a
lot of my approach and appreciation of those safety
measures as well. But as this is probably
something that you more relate to besides of, how do you work
through that? Yeah, well, I'm having to work
on it from a mental health perspective as well, because I
(08:40):
really do get very obsessive over things like this, and I'm
looking into what might be goingon for me there.
My dad was the same. So I grew up with a dad that was
extremely protective of our safety and very anxious about
different things. And so I saw that and I've lived
that and now I'm seeing it in our oldest child.
So I'm navigating that as well as a mum, which is really just a
(09:01):
whole different journey. And so for me, it's a balance.
And usually I don't even know what kind of formula goes on in
my head, but I usually will be like, is this a relevant thing
to be worried about? South, for example, like if a
book is lying out on our tiles and the kids have left it there,
I'll often pick it up and move it because I can just see in my
head they're going to run aroundthe corner, stand on the book
(09:23):
slip and then hit their head. That's the kind of scenario that
plays out for me. If I was getting frustrated at
you because you didn't see the book and think that's a safety
hazard, I don't find that fair because that's my, I know that's
just my, like, brain that's on OverDrive ticking through
everything that could go wrong. If there's like, sometimes
you'll leave big sharp knives onthe edge of the counter.
(09:44):
Yeah. But that one, that one I do
agree with it. I want to get better.
No, I know that's what I was going to say is like that does
frustrate me because I don't get, I'm actually really not
frustrated, but but that's something I think.
No, you should be aware of that because our son like, yeah, very
easily can grab things. Yeah, and there's certain things
like that. So I, I didn't know what it is
that in my mind, it makes it relevant and makes it not
(10:04):
relevant. I think it's like, how likely is
this going to happen? But this is the thing, and I say
this all the time to you and to my close friends, it does my
head in because my brain will imagine something and then it
will happen. And then I'm like, that just
reinforces that I have to be so over the top with this stuff.
It's, it's extremely frustrating.
That's the whole journey I'm on as well.
But like, so the book thing, I have had times where I'm like,
(10:26):
don't worry about that book. It's fine next minute slip on
the book. So I just, I don't, I don't
know, to be honest, I don't know.
I think it, it really comes downto what's general safety.
So general safety, you've got a baby that's putting things in
their mouth. It's probably a good idea not to
leave things around. And that's general safety for
kids, especially if she's already said it and she's like,
(10:47):
hey, we really, I'm nervous about these things we're leaving
around. I've seen him choking on it
twice. We had our son rap.
This is trigger warning, by the way, this whole story trigger
warning for kids in danger. But we had our son when he was
in his room for his nap, wrap the cord of a blind around his
neck. And I just happened to think I
should go check on him. And I went and saw him with it.
(11:07):
And ever since then, it's just like triggered me massively with
blind chords. So now, like when we moved in
here, a lot of the chords there were the stupid blinds that like
aren't very safe at all. So I've changed all the ones
that are like in the kids area and then the ones in our room,
they're never he's well, the baby's never around without us
anyway. But it's just stuff like that,
(11:28):
that just it's general safety. You've seen something happen
like that was pretty intense when that happened with our
oldest son. And so now that's something that
is a general safety thing. I would expect you would be
watching out for blinds as well.And that's what we put in place.
I think a little bit comes down to experience too, right?
So when that happened with our oldest son, I don't think I was
around. You were at work?
Yeah, I remember calling you. So it's like that's going to be
(11:51):
so much more ingrained into yourhead where for me it's, it's
distant story, you know, it's not like something I've just
experienced, right? Or I've experienced and now it's
like that, that trio in me, whenever that happens, I was
like, well, oh, crap, that sucks.
You know, like, but I keep forgetting about it because I
just, I didn't have that experience.
I had the story. Yeah.
(12:11):
And I think that's probably a big thing.
Men, well got boys. Men are more generally just not
safety conscious. Yeah.
And I don't know what that. Is risk takers maybe?
Big. Well, yeah, but this isn't a
risk taking thing. It's.
Not afraid, yes, yeah, yeah, that's true.
I don't know what to categorise it as.
And that's probably, like I said, my dad was the one in in
(12:32):
my parents that were this way. So that's generalising.
But I think, yeah, for the most part.
And the other thing too is when you become a mum, your brain
like literally just switches. There's stuff we've talked about
mental load, emotional load, there's stuff that switches,
especially in the early years because you tend to be again,
generalising the one that's mainly keeping that baby living
because you've got the routine going, you're feeding them a lot
(12:55):
of the time. So you're probably and we also
go to a lot of maternal education.
So the great thing that was toldto me in my mother's group and
it was told to me from the the parenting pages I followed,
which are all women based safetypages.
So it and it's reinforcing, reinforced to me.
So that's why the grape thing for me straight away I was like,
yeah, I get that he's probably not gonna choke on them.
(13:16):
Takes 2 seconds to cut them in half, so let's just do that.
Yeah, and it's actually really good to be aware of like from
for our work perspective, right.So we both work for a nonprofit
organisation called Dads Group and it's about equipping dads
and educating dads on how to be like, how to confidently and
educated wise approach being a parent, you know, so it's not
all on mums like so when dads better, more supported and more
(13:38):
equipped, the whole family is actually more supported in that
time too. So that's actually really good
for from a work perspective of like, alright, well, even those
little things are really good for us to bring up.
Yeah. Fantastic. 500 ideas of how that
could work. Yeah, but that's great.
Yeah. But I will say, I think this is
that's one thing, right? Like we're talking about the
safety and your how your brains work and all that sort of stuff.
(13:59):
Then we're talking about how a couple navigates scorekeeping
because she's starting to scorekeep because of that.
And that's regardless of if thisis relevant to your
relationship. This is still like the
scorekeeping part of it is slightly different.
Yeah, Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
And I think the scorekeeping like, so she's talking here
about like she, you know, frustrated about how the garbage
(14:20):
wasn't thrown away properly and so forth.
And I've been trying to really think through this, like even
for myself now, how it's different for me because I work
from home, right? So I leave my office in our home
to our kitchen in our home. Like I don't have like a break
in a commute in between to really get myself in the
(14:41):
headspace of like I I'm enteringinto home life now and something
I actually want to get better atis just to take 10 minutes,
knock off work, take 10 minutes.Get in the car, get around,
Yeah. Well, like, you know, before I
leave my, my office, like alright, what, what, what am I
entering into? Because like with the knife
thing, I'm just so still in workmode, my mind is still ticking
(15:03):
off like, and it's like debriefing from the day.
I'm not because I go, I usually go, well, you and I share the
cooking side of things, but I'll, I'll sometimes just go
straight into cooking mode and I'm chopping stuff And but I'm
debriefing my day at the same time.
So I'm not really present and aware.
So it's something I've got to bebetter at.
But for you, if you like, for our listener, if you're driving
(15:23):
home, if you're a male and you're driving home, try and get
into that headspace. You know, I think this is just,
you know, it's not to be like, oh, you're doing all of these
things wrong, but how can we equip ourselves and prepare
ourselves when we get home? What are the things that have
been that we want to be more aware of and prepare for that,
mentally prepared for that? And when we get home, we're
going to be a lot more availablefor that.
(15:45):
But the scorekeeping part is hard.
That's again, we've we've definitely struggled with that a
bit. When we get into that argument,
we go around in circles and thenwe scorekeep.
We bring something up from but you do this or you did that and
then we go off on a whole. I remember the last time we did
this and it happens nearly everytime.
I can't remember or how we got on to that and it's usually
(16:06):
because and after like post reflecting, it's usually because
of scorekeeping. Yeah, and what's also really
funny is almost every time scorekeeping comes into the
argument, we both have kept score for the same thing,
thinking the other person is notdoing it.
It's just like, insane. Actually, the last time we had
that, like the last argument, we.
Had I think that about you and you think that about me and it's
(16:28):
just like, wow. And I think that's part of it is
score keeping starts to morph your your perception of what's
happening because yes, maybe he's left garbage around.
And this is something I really struggle with as well is like
sometimes I've been like, you know, we've talked about phones,
for example. So we've talked about how being
(16:50):
on the phones around the kids issomething that's we don't want
to do very often. And sometimes when I know that
you're like aware of me being onmy phone, in my mind, I go into
this whole thing like, yeah, butyou haven't been, you haven't
seen me all the times I haven't been on it.
It's just this time you've walked in and see me on it.
And so and it's like, even though like then that comes with
all its layers as well. It's like score keeping is your
(17:12):
perception of what is happening to this person, but it's not
even an accurate one all the time because you're already
frustrated and you're picking up, You're not seeing the things
that are happening when you're not there.
You're and you're also picking up so much more because your
brain is frustrated. And I've found myself like
irritated about all these things.
Then we'll have a discussion about another like a more
(17:34):
important kind of foundational thing.
Those things just disappear. It's like I'm not actually
frustrated at the knife on the side of the counter or the
whatever it might be. I I'm just frustrated because I
felt disrespected and we had that conversation where I feel
unconnected and we had that conversation and then everything
eases. Yeah.
So it's not even accurate even when you're like looking at the
(17:54):
stuff. And with gone let's let's just
we're gonna dive into that our last agreement a disagreement
really quickly. So again, post reflection of
this, I remember I was getting frustrated at you because you're
on your phone a lot. And you said to me, it's like,
yeah, but you're on your phone too.
Around the kids. I'm like, no, but but for me,
what I'm doing, I'm having intentional time of leading my
(18:15):
phone in my room. So like I catch myself when I'm
being on my phone and I'm like, I don't want to do this.
We decided we didn't want to do this.
And then I'll put something in place.
I see that. I don't see your things.
You. See your intention now?
Exactly, I see my intention. I don't see your intentionality.
So the scorekeeping, like you said, is not accurate because
all I see is my perspective. Yeah.
We haven't had a conversation about this.
(18:36):
We haven't. This isn't a verbal decision
that I've made to be intentional.
Leave my phone in my room. It doesn't come out of the
office, whatever. And that's what I've done.
And that's all internal. I haven't shared that with you.
There's been no verbal thing andvice versa.
So all I see is what I see. And that's not accurate.
That's not the complete pictures.
Yeah. Scorekeeping is not an accurate
reflection. Sometimes it is.
(18:56):
Sometimes it is. Like when it's like, alright,
you've never ever, ever, ever done the dishes in your life.
Like that's, that's something you can score, but it's not
Scorekeeping is not a productiveprocess of an argument or trying
to get. To something or.
Gathering information or using as a weapon, it's really a bit
like really coming down to the core issue.
(19:16):
I saw when I was looking at whatstories to use, one of them was
anyone who says scorekeeping isn't fair is just lazy and
trying to get away with things. And I was like, interesting
perspective. I don't think that's fully true.
But but The thing is, so you like the example of never doing
the dishes. For example, you could be like,
I've never seen you ever do the dishes.
(19:37):
And that might be accurate. Like you might be correct about
never doing the dishes. The issue with score keeping is
the attitude that it puts on your heart and the the way that
you're presenting it. So it'd be one thing for me to
go to go to you and say I would love some help with the dishes.
I've noticed you don't do the dishes and I do them every time.
(19:58):
So I would love some help. But then there has to be more
curiosity because why does someone never do the dishes?
That is an excuse that they like.
There might be some, you know, they never had to do them at
home. They don't actually understand
how to do it or they're mentallyjust really struggling and
they're not in a good headspace or they just don't see it and
they didn't even realise that you didn't like do it.
Like there could be 500 reasons.And so to just be like, you
(20:20):
never do the dishes, you need todo the dishes, which is kind of
what score keeping does is it presents like this is what I do,
this is what you do. And it almost always comes with
resentment. It's just not a productive
conversation. And yes, you might be right, but
that doesn't mean that your yourway that you're presenting into
that conversation or the way you're using that information is
(20:42):
helpful. If you, if you're, if your goal
of that conversation is to be right or to get something off
your chest, sure, go for it. And I can guarantee you it's not
going to end up well, it's not going to be effective.
You're just going to get like stonewalling back or you know,
any of the other or resentment or just, you know, you're going
to get a fight. And but if your result, if your
goal is to actually improving that relationship and actually
(21:05):
get help, it's like, you know, don't don't just do score
keeping or something to be yeah,I'm effective.
It's interesting though, becausethis is so she says she's had
this conversation with him multiple times and and it is so
like we've just said, score keeping is not effective.
We always do it. So it's it's such a common thing
to be like this happens all the time.
(21:26):
And I've already asked you not to do this.
And so it is a relevant thing. One thing I've really tried to
figure out is where is the balance between score keeping or
becoming nitpicky? Like where does it happen?
Where all of a sudden? Because even the other day we're
talking about the phones again. We had this conversation about
phones and then I saw you playing a game on your phone
when you're with the kids. And I was like, what are you
doing on your phone? And I was thinking in my head, I
(21:48):
was like, I'm not frustrated at you being on your phone right
now, but you are on your phone when you're with the kids.
So in my mind, I'm like, do I say something so that I'm just
saying just so you know, like this is me pointing out that
you're on your phone around the kids, or do I just remember he
was on the on the phone the other day when he was with the
kids? Or do I just not do anything
with it? And it's a really hard thing to
(22:10):
know that navigation because it that's how I like, I don't know
what the balance is like. I don't know where that comes
in. Well, what what you've done, I'm
going to say what you've actually done well is the times
where you say, remember when youget frustrated with the kids
while and you're being distracted on your phone, like
looking at what what's the reason for that?
So. What's the damage?
What's the? Damage for it like what you have
(22:32):
done in the past is is generallysay hey like if I have got
frustrated like hey remember like you might be a bit
distracted on your phone, which is why you get.
Frustrated is why I get frustrated as which is.
So accurate and I know that and.But this is the thing though.
You're doing this based off. This isn't just a out of the
blue random comment. This is something that we're
(22:52):
both aware of. So we've actually done work in
our conversations and trying to improve on this.
And so you can speak into something that we're already
working on. If if this is the first time
you're saying it, like probably that's not the time to say it.
And then later bringing it up and be like, Hey, I would really
love us to work on this when I'mnot on my phone and you know,
(23:13):
like. Yeah, I think that's probably
key is not maybe not in the moment.
I still don't know exactly the balance because not in the
moment is better because you being on your phone and me
coming up and being like you're on your phone, which I don't
you've. Done it in a moment gently.
And I'm like, that's right. And it's reminding me.
But again, this is because this is a continuation of a
conversation that we've had likethose times.
(23:34):
It's fine. So I think if this lady just to
try and bring because we're having a massive conversation
around this, which is good, but the story's gone into the
distance. This lady, I think there would
be a validity to her. Now she's expressed it to him
that it's a concern of hers. She's had a reason for it to be
concerned. Like he's choked on it multiple
Times Now. I think there would be a
(23:54):
validity to her seeing him leaving something if she sees
him and then in the moment addressing it, be like, do you
mind popping that in the bin? Because last time baby choked on
it? Or even me, like just a reminder
to pop that in the bin. Like if if they've had the
conversation specifically about that, if she's able to do it
gently in that moment, there might be validity there because
it's like on top of already having the conversation, he's
(24:15):
already been made aware and he'sstill not doing what she's asked
him to. Or like if it continues having
that conversation be like, is there like, how do you feel
about me being concerned about this?
Like is, do you not think that it's valid or Yeah, is there
something else going on? I was going to say, I think
that's a better approach only because if it's still reliant on
her to say just remember, just. From that's 100%.
(24:37):
Sucks that's not a long term solution, absolutely, but it
does. If I guess what's the trade off,
Either she does that and she canget it out of her head straight
away and address it straight away, or it starts to become to
build into this resentment. She's talking about where she
is. Just like he did it again, I put
it in the bin, he did it again, I've put it in the bin.
I that's where I don't know. I don't know where the balance
is. What I would say is to get it
(24:58):
off her head like the first response.
Yes, but I needs that follow up conversation.
Yeah, like. That's what it needs.
So if it's like, if there's no plan for that follow up
conversation, I think that's where the damage is.
But if you're like, cool, I was going to get the centre of my
head. Hey, this in the bin and like,
knowing to yourself you're gonnaspeak about this later is really
important. Yeah, you just gonna give him
permission and he's gonna keep on being like.
(25:19):
Oh, you'll enable exactly. Yeah, Yeah.
So let's move on to the next story anyway, 'cause I think all
of these will have similar kind of vibes, but the just a little
prompt to like make these stories a bit more immediately
applicable to us. A little prompt to think about
is where is a place or a space that you feel you need to
scorekeep? What is something that you're
needing to scorekeep regularly for your partner?
(25:39):
And a little flip side of that, just in case you're on the other
side of this a lot of the time is what's something that your
partner has raised with you multiple times that maybe you're
continuing to forget that you can start to put things in place
for. So let's dive into story #2
relationships are supposed to beabout give and take, right?
Am I score keeping too much? So my girlfriend and I are in a
(26:00):
big fight and I could use some advice.
Basically, whenever we go out and it's my idea to go out, I
will pay. I don't do it because I have to.
I do it because I know she'll like it and it'll make her
happy. But whenever it's her idea to go
out, it's always we'll pay separately.
In six months, she's paid for one drink, one shot, one slice
of pizza. I asked her about it and she
said that she doesn't have much money because she doesn't work a
(26:22):
lot. So I'm like, OK, that's fine.
But then the other night she mentions how she's going to
Toronto in May for a week with her girlfriends.
I'm kind of like, you can afforda $700.00 trip but you can't,
goodness forbid, pay for our dinner once in a while or Take
Me Out. Then she starts saying how I am
keeping score and it shouldn't be about that but like as a guy
I like having things to tell my friends about what my girlfriend
(26:44):
did for me but I don't have any of those kinds of stories, am I
wrong? First of all, he just ended up
with showing that there's so much more going on than.
Just so not. Paying for food.
And he has absolutely kept score, 'cause he's like 1 drink,
one shot, one in six months. The list, he's got a list going
on. Although it does also sound like
(27:04):
they have had that conversation.He's asked her about it and she
said it's 'cause she doesn't have much money.
So I do understand when you've had that conversation and it's
not addressed, it's it's tough, but yeah, if.
I also picked this, this conversation apart.
There's a difference between like a trip and shouting meals,
right? Like, so there's a difference
there, you know, for you and I and the life saves you.
(27:25):
We're in the priority of self care and, and even a holiday is
really important, right? And, and the holidays not
regular at all, but our holidayshave been like a day off, like
there's been a holiday. So just that self care sort of
stuff is really, really important, man.
Look, when I was younger and didn't have money, that sucks,
(27:46):
right? Like, yeah, it's, it's a hard
time. Like, yeah, you've got a, you've
got a budget if you're eating out a lot.
Like that's, that sucks. The real issue here, I believe,
is not the fact that she's not paying even that they'll be
contributing to, like he said, the very end here.
As a guy, I like having things to tell my friends about what my
girlfriend did for me, but I don't have any of those kinds of
(28:07):
stories. I think that's, that's the
bigger issue here. I think the way that he's
approaching it, he's, he's identifying 1 area scorekeeping.
And you just see her response. It's not, it's not received
well. It's like, you know, it's like
it's not. He's not caught discussing the
core issue here. He's just trying to grab
something and say like, see, I'mdoing this and you're doing
(28:27):
that. Yeah, I think this is a love
language issue. I think he's probably not
feeling loved in the way that heis loving, which is he'll give
her a gift of food. I don't it'd be interesting to
know if he's explained that to her.
Like I would like to thank you because I've asked you to go out
kind of thing. And then if he's explained the
flip side of that, like, I don'tfeel very loved when you don't
do this. And then and then the I found it
(28:50):
funny that he said, as a guy, I like to tell my friends what my
girlfriend's done for me. It's like everybody probably
likes to be like. I was going to say, I wonder
how. I wonder how young this guy is.
Yeah, he didn't say his ages arethere, but it's an expectations
thing. And there's so many, this
specific topic, there would be so many things that could play
(29:10):
into why she's not paying and why he feels like he will when
he takes her out. Like what you grew up with, like
the traditional parts of your family, what you've experienced
in previous relationships, what the expectations were like.
I found it really interesting when we started dating, you paid
all the time when we went out and I, I remember our first date
was sort of like a hangout, not really a full date date.
(29:33):
We went to woollies and got foodto make at your house.
It's a grocery store and you went to pay.
I was the whole time. I'm like, I don't really have
much money, but I also was like,I will pay for part of this, but
you just paid and I felt really uncomfortable because I was
like, thank you. But I was also like, well, I
don't know how to navigate these.
Like I just don't know what expectations are.
I hadn't had that kind of a relationship.
(29:55):
I'd only been in like the you both pay for yourself kind of
relationship before. And so but you were very, very
much like, you know, pay and that's just how you navigated
our relationship. So it was an interesting
transition and it is a conversation every couple needs
to have. Like that's expectations and
what people bring in to relationships and you need to
find what works for you. And there's no right or wrong
there. It's just expectations.
(30:16):
But if you don't have the conversation clearly, then the
expectations get misunderstood or they they get mismatched.
And your expectations and your assumptions about why someone's
doing something or the score keeping thing really impacts how
you navigate it. Because to him, she's showing
him he's not important to her and that, you know, he's not a
(30:37):
priority because she's prioritising going away, which I
also agree with you, I don't, I think that's just a priorities
thing. And she maybe they haven't had
that conversation about what theexpectations are about who's
paying for things. And some people think the guy
always pays or the person who earns more money always pays.
And that's not just a given. You have to have that
conversation. And then the love, love
(31:00):
languages, like maybe he doesn'teven know what love languages
are. He just knows that he's not
feeling loved. Yeah.
So exploring why, why does this make you feel unloved?
Like, why does this feel like a let down in terms of what you
have to tell your friends? And then instead of it being a
score keeping thing, let it be aconversation that helps you
understand each other better. And we've got an episode on on
expectations as well. So if you haven't checked that
(31:22):
out, go check that out. To go speaks a lot into this
space and I think it's again, it's really important when we
fight, when we catch ourselves scorekeeping against the other
person, like internally, not verbally, like reflect on that a
little bit here too, because I can see this, you know, you
never know the sorts of things that are impacting that
scorekeeping. So for this guy, it could be
(31:42):
he's had a previous relationshipthat's, you know, triggered
something here and whatever else.
There's so many things that can go into this scorekeeping.
It's it's, it could be a love language, it could be an unmet
need. It could be like, you know,
previous triggers coming into the conversation, you're fearful
that that's going to happen again or whatever else.
So the the importance of your own self reflection and and
(32:04):
digging into those irritations abit more, having attitude of
curiosity for yourself is reallyimportant.
Yeah, and a little prompt to just think about.
And I think this is important when it comes to scorekeeping.
Are you asking for recognition or are you asking for fairness?
Because there's two different things.
So sometimes I find myself keeping score and it's not
because I want you to do what I'm doing, it's just more I want
(32:27):
you to be aware of what I'm doing.
And it's really hard in when you're especially with parents
and that kind of thing, when your parents, the things you do
that you never that never get noticed and there's going to be
things you do for your partner that never get noticed.
And that's part of relationshipsand it's just part of loving and
sacrifice. But are you asking for fairness
because you want it to be fair? Or is he asking for recognition
(32:49):
because he wants it to be recognised what he's given and
like the gift that he's giving? And can you express that?
Clearly, we're gonna dig into scorekeeping, we're gonna
continue on that conversation ina bit, but I just wanted to take
a moment here to share a little bit more about what we're doing
on this podcast. We, you know, we are a podcast,
we do love to discuss these things, but our aim is to bring
(33:11):
so much more than just noise into the online sphere, right?
We, we really want to be bringing impact.
And and so something Amy's actually really started is her
her coaching classes and coursesthat she's come out with.
So that is next chapter coaching.
You check that out at next chapter coaching.com dot AU.
Cool. And if you like what is
(33:31):
coaching, I really highly recommend for you guys to go
check out last week's episode, which is what's driving you.
Amy takes me through. So she actually coaches me to
give an example of what that looks like.
And you know, I honestly didn't know what our conversation was
going to be like. I didn't know what she was
planning on doing, but I we've been referring back to that
episode, not that episode, but just.
(33:52):
The session the. Session since right we've just
been continually coming back to that and so eye opening and I've
just felt so much more clarity and confidence in understanding
myself and understanding situations.
So in that episode we're talkingabout how a big drive for me is
control like I just need to knowcontrol and we've had these
(34:14):
different scenarios come up in our relationship even recently
and then we've we've continued those conversations and I've
come straight back she's like, Oh yeah, OK, because of my need
of control not controlling, but I need to have that plan I need
to know where is this coming from I need this clarity thank
you that's a better way of saying it, which is what you did
talk about in the episode. I need this clarity and where
(34:36):
that comes from and we've just, it's been able to really dive
into our conversation. So if you want to know more
about coaching and what that could look like for you, go
check out that episode of What'sDriving You the episode 48.
And also go check out Amy's website nextchaptercoaching.com
dot AU dot. AU dot AU, Let's go back to.
(34:57):
Let's get back into it. All right, Story 3.
Can a marriage be saved when resentment takes over?
I see lots of posts about partners being angry or abusive
but I feel like I'm on the otherside of the situation.
My husband works a lot. He's a developer and he says he
has ADHD so he struggles to multitask.
He also has some conspiracy beliefs which adds another layer
(35:19):
of tension. I on the other hand, know I have
anger issues. I work full time then come home
to cook and take care of our child.
He's slowly moving and does far less than I do, but insists we
divide things equally because hetakes our child to nursery in
the mornings. I only agreed to start working
earlier so I can spend more timewith our child in the evenings.
On weekends I'm usually the one waking up early while he sleeps
(35:40):
until 10:50 AM, then goes for a run and takes long showers.
He used to be a soft, kind person, but I've always been
angry because I felt like he wasn't doing enough.
He tells me that no matter what he does, I always find something
to be unhappy about and honestlyI think he's right.
Our child is 2 1/2 and reading so many posts here I can't see
any other outcome but divorced down the line.
We still care about each other but he started being verbally
(36:03):
harsh in response to my constantanger and he constantly tells me
I'm depressed and that it's bad for our child.
Meanwhile he comes from a happy family where his mom did
everything and then still thinksher kids are perfect.
I know a lot of parents say theystayed for the sake of their
child. We'd love to have a second baby
but my anger makes that impossible and I'm over 40 which
makes it even harder. Is it better to separate now or
(36:24):
later? Has anyone been in a similar
situation and actually managed to change things and save the
marriage? That's a really sad story.
Yeah, it's heavy. It's very heavy and I'm not
going to answer that last question that they have and we
can't. No, and I just don't want to.
But the first thing is all right, She's identified her
struggle, identified his struggle.
(36:46):
It still seems like she's not focusing on her struggle though.
Like it's, it's purely on his struggle, which is the score
keeping, right? Like he does this, this, this
and this. This is what I need.
But he does this, this and this and this.
I struggle with anger, I admit that, but he struggles with this
and this. And I just think it's, it's a
game like what school keeping does is it keeps our eyes
focused on the other person. You know what I mean?
(37:07):
It it reduces our ability to focus on ourselves because we're
so concerned. About that.
Person what some of the biggest times that I've been, I guess,
motivated to work on myself is when I say you work on yourself,
not that it's reliant on you, but it's empowering, right?
When you work on your things, like we celebrate that.
Oh man, I want to, you know, I get pumped up.
(37:29):
I'm like, yeah, I want to do something too.
And then I start focusing on myself as well.
And it's just those it's just the the teamwork element there,
but it's it's, it's like they'velost that and it's just that
blame game on the other person. I think it's just really needs
to come back to, well, focus on yourself first, Work on those
things, your anger. Like I've had anger issues for
years and it's like, yeah, I've had to be really intentional
(37:50):
with that. And me focusing on that has
actually calmed things down for us to focus on other areas.
But I actually had to focus on that first before we could
address other areas. Yeah, well, anger's a pattern.
It's a it's a pattern and a reaction.
And I think people personality wise and just, you know,
situation wise have tendencies towards anger or avoidance and
that kind of thing. But it's still a pattern that
(38:11):
can change, but it doesn't change until you reshape your
brain like you need to get help and assistance with this.
And it's a repetitive like action against, like choosing to
react differently and choosing to reinforce the neural pathways
that are not your default response, which is anger.
And we've spoken on here and I speak in my, my coaching all the
(38:34):
time about this. Your brain will feed you the
information that you tell it youwant.
It'll feed you the information you're focusing on.
It gathers evidence for what you're telling it is happening
or what you're telling it is important to you.
It will gather that evidence andit will block out the evidence
that is opposing that. So if she's constantly like, you
know, he doesn't do this, he doesn't do this after time.
(38:57):
The reason score keeping is likeyou've just said, the reason
it's so damaging is you're actually feeding into your brain
a philtre that you want to only see what they're not doing
because that's what you're focusing on.
That's what you're stuck in. You've got this negativity bias
going on in your brain. You're only focusing on their
failings and that's just going to get reinforced and
reinforced. It's not going to be accurate
anymore. It's not going to show you the
(39:19):
things he is doing, the good things about him, the good
things about your relationship. It's literally going to philtre
that out and only focus on thosethings.
So these are patterns that have reinforced and reinforced and
reinforced. I fully believe these patterns
can just like be transformed. I really believe they can takes
a lot of work. And the problem is you have to
(39:40):
be willing to do that work. The thing with the anger, that's
going to be something she's going to have to navigate
regardless of if they stay together or not.
Like that's not something that just magically goes away because
he's away. And I'll carry on, if she gets
another relationship it'll carryon.
So for her to focus on when do Iseparate is the wrong thing to
focus on at this? Stage of the Yeah, that's
actually like. That's just one situation in
(40:01):
this. It's not the marriage isn't even
the fix. Yeah, it's a pattern that she
has to work on. And I really believe that the
more you're focusing on it, likethe more your anger is driving
your way, you're reading life around you and driving your
reactions, the less you're goingto see the the value in the in
person and partner. And so she might feel like it's
hopeless right now, but I think a lot of that would be through
(40:22):
that philtre of the anger. And it's really interesting to
see, she even notes that he usedto be a soft, kind person and
now he's harsh in response. And that's just a very good
indication of how these patternscan change the vibe of your
relationship. She's not responsible for his
responses. She's not to blame.
He's still responsible for those.
But you can just see how it wears down on your partner.
(40:44):
This is very, like you said, a very sad story.
And it's, but it's something she's going to have to work on
regardless of if she stays with him or not.
And it's something that she's going to have to work on in her
parenting because this is what akid is seeing is an appropriate
response. First and foremost.
My suggestion in this situation would be get counselling for
yourself, not marriage counselling at this stage.
(41:05):
I think that's the secondary. I think the counselling for
yourself is this the first? The other, I think the big
reason for that too, is to help shift that focus.
You know, I really think that shift needs to be on herself
1st. And like, mine has been, you
know, yours has been. If we can't focus on ourselves,
if we can only focus on the other person, that's the first
shift. Because even if we went to
(41:25):
marriage counselling, I'd still be focusing on all the stuff
that you. Yeah, were doing.
Yeah. Right, so that you'd be trying
to fix the marriage, which is a,which at that stage is a result
of your patterns. Yeah, yeah, and his for sure
not, not. Like yours in both of you
separately, your own patterns. Yeah, exactly.
Definitely value in working on it.
Yeah. These kinds of things.
(41:45):
I think the moment you show intentionality is kind of like
the phone thing. It's all well and good for you
to be like, what are we doing and be like trying to work on it
internally, figure out what's going on, what's best, what's
the next move, that kind of thing.
The moment you can communicate with your partner about what's
going on in your head and your intentions for why you're
working on these things. Like like, like if she decides
(42:08):
to do counselling or something like that.
And she says to him, I really need to get on top of this.
I really want to get on top of my anger and I'm aware of what
I'm struggling with and I'm going to put intentional work
into this. It just like it doesn't fix
everything, but the, it just eases that like cloud that hangs
over the relationship and sets an intention for which direction
you're moving towards. And I think having that
(42:29):
conversation would be a game changer in and of itself.
Just a little prompt for us, as well as what is score keeping
doing to the way that I'm viewing my relationship?
What is my resentment and my score keeping doing to the way
I'm seeing my partner or the wayI feel about our relationship?
And is there an attitude shift Ican do there internally to help?
(42:50):
Because the moment you start to shift that attitude and that
response, the moment there feelslike this forward motion, If
you're stuck in that like negative, you don't see the path
forward and it's really hard to feel any kind of hope.
And they said in the Gutman's 4 Horsemen, they say that
contempt, which is the same as this resentment, is the biggest
(43:10):
indicator of marriage crisis. Basically, once you get to that
resentment stage, that's the biggest indicator of marriage
crisis because it's so hard to see outside of it.
And we we've got an episode on the Four Horsemen as well
earlier on, so check that out. Yeah.
So this has been score keeping, three very different stories
talking about a similar topic and score keeping will have
(43:32):
played out differently for you in your relationship.
It's played out differently for us, but I think it's a huge
topic in relationships and something that happens without
even being named. So you can be score keeping and
almost just ignoring that this is a behaviour you have.
So there's so many layers to it is score keeping because you're
feeling whatever you're feeling is unfair or unjust or
(43:53):
unrecognised in your relationship, which is valid and
it's a valid conversation I have.
But the score keeping behaviour is a whole issue on its own.
And so until we can name that, oh, actually maybe I struggle
with score keeping potentially for valid reasons.
Until you can name that, it's hard to recognise it and put
things in place. And I think it is a really
important pattern to address. It's an important pattern to
(44:16):
address and then to address why it's happening as well.
But addressing that you are someone struggling with score,
score keeping is really important for the forward
movement of your relationship. So good chat.
We're going to move into realitycheck corner, which is where we
make this practical for you and us today.
We can apply this today and put these things into place.
(44:37):
Very low, low risk, low effort, but something that we can apply
really quickly. So this is not just something
you've heard and you can push off into the background.
It can become practical and impact your life.
So I've got a few prompts here I'm just going to read out.
And these are things I'd love for us to just think about for
ourselves and take a second to to kind of assess where we are
out with them each as individuals.
(44:58):
So am I keeping score because I don't feel seen?
Is there a reoccurring moment that leaves me feeling quietly
resentful? What would it look like to name
one of those moments calmly and clearly this week?
So a little challenge to follow on from that is pick one small
thing that you've been mentally tallying, like who initiates
affection or who tidies up firstor who listens most, and say
(45:19):
something simple about it without heat.
So find a moment, set aside a time to bring up something that
you're struggling with and just address it gently and with
curiosity. Have that conversation rather
than letting it build up. And my other suggestion would be
address that you're score keeping as well.
So be honest about that and say,I'm finding myself in this
pattern I don't like, but I'm also feeling really hurt and
(45:41):
unseen because of this. So just find that conversation
and have it gently and curiouslywith your partner.
And just a quick future pace, we're going to take a moment to
just picture a future we'd like to work towards in our
relationship, Something that gives us forward motion.
It's the opposite of that resentment when we don't want to
stay stuck in these patterns, feeling hopeless.
We want to picture moving forward in this and we've got
(46:03):
movements we can take forward. So just take a moment, take a
deep breath and close your eyes while I read this out.
And I'd love for you to picture this as clearly as you can.
So imagine it's a few weeks fromnow and instead of bottling it
up, you're starting to name things gently in the moment.
No scoreboard, no emotional backlog.
It's just clarity. You're noticing when something
(46:24):
matters and you're brave enough to say it out loud.
It's not perfect, but it's healthier, it's more honest, and
the tone of your relationship feels lighter.
Maybe you're finally on the sameteam again.
All right, so this is score keeping.
Great, that was a good one. It was so applicable and so
relevant and I think everyone struggles with this.
It's going to be relevant to anyone.
So again, if you got something out of this, please share it on
(46:45):
because I can guarantee you it won't just be for you.
But yeah, thank you so much for tuning in, guys.
Great chat and we'll catch you next week.
See ya. Bye.
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