53. When Mental Load Leads to a Stand-Off | How to Move Forward When Your Partner Shuts Down

You finally brought up the mental load. You found the words. You mustered the courage. And then… nothing. Maybe they shut down. Maybe they pushed back. Maybe the conversation just fell flat.

In this powerful follow-up to our original Mental Load episode, we unpack what happens when that invisible labour finally gets named, but the conversation doesn’t land.

Whether you're met with defensiveness, silence, or a flat-out dismissal, this episode walks you through what to do when your partner isn’t ready to engage.

We cover:

• What mental load really is (and how it differs from task load)

• Why your partner might resist or shut down the conversation

• How to zoom out and see the bigger system at play

• Practical tools to move forward—even if you're carrying it alone for now

This isn’t about blame. It’s about building bridges, one small shift at a time. If you’ve ever said “I’ve tried to talk about it… but nothing changes,” this one’s for you.

➡️ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Book a Free Clarity Session with Amy! ⁠⁠⁠⁠

🎧 Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

📺 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Watch on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

📥 Get free tools + coaching support: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠honeyweneedtochat.com⁠⁠

mental load, invisible labour, emotional load, relationship communication, partner shut down, defensiveness, resentment in marriage, repair tools, unspoken contracts, scorekeeping

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Honey, We
Need to chat. We are the podcast all about
communication in a relationship and the communication's so
important. The way that we communicate, how
we communicate, how we how the other person receives the thing
that we're communicating about. We discuss it all here.
One of our most written and about episode.

(00:20):
It was actually on our episode called mental load.
And so definitely go check that out because when you first
addressed this with me, it was such an eye opener for me.
And I was the one, you know, mostly doing this to you.
And so for you, when you broughtthat to me, I'm like, oh man,
like, is this legit? Like, do you actually feel this
way? And it was great.
And it started off a whole conversation trail for us and,

(00:42):
and we operate very differently now since that conversation and
the way they feed into that. So anyway, go check out that
episode on on mental load and what that actually means.
But we've got a lot of writings as well from people saying, I've
listened to the episode of mental Load and it just it gave
me words to something I was struggling with that I didn't
have words for before. And you've gone and you've
approached your partner about this and it just wasn't well

(01:05):
received either, you know, from bunch of different reasons.
So we've had a lot of those rights in as well.
So that's the the conversation that we're having today is how
to have this conversation and how to have this conversation if
it's come against resistance. So stick around to the end
because we're going to have a lot of practical things for you
to work through. So that's where the practical
side comes out and it's going tobe a very valuable resource for

(01:28):
you. We're also going to have
resources on our website based on this as well.
But we're on a journey here. OK.
So it's really important to understand this topic.
Mental load is so big, we can't fit it into one episode.
So we want to go on this journeywith you to commit with us over
the next few weeks and we'll unpack this together because
you're going to get a lot from very practical things that you

(01:48):
can take straight back into yourrelationship or actually go
through these episodes together with your partner.
So stick around for all of that,because you're not going to get
all of it from one episode. Yeah, we've had so much feedback
on mental load and even in this week we've had multiple people
contacting us about this mental load conversation.
So we decided we wanted to expand more on it and we're

(02:10):
going to do a bit of a series relating to mental load and
relating to these difficult conversations to help hopefully
bring some practical difficult tips in terms of how to navigate
these conversations. When you're not receiving, it's
not being received the way that you hoped it would.
So yeah, follow along. These are difficult chats
because everyone's so different and every couple's dynamic is
just so unique to them. And so there's not one solution

(02:34):
that works for everyone and there's not one context that is
applicable to everybody. So when you're navigating these
conversations, it is hard to have a clear idea of the best
way to do this because there's not going to be 1 best way.
We're hoping that today's chat will give you some more ideas,
give you some encouragement if that's something you've
experienced, and help bring you guys closer together as a couple

(02:56):
and bring you guys closer together in this space of mental
load. It can be applied to any topic.
It does not have to be specifically to mental load, but
if you've raised something you're concerned about and you
want to have some refreshment interms of how to keep going with
that, we're hoping that's what you can get from today.
And if you're new today, I am Blair.
This is my wife, Amy. Hello, We're married.
Congrats on knowing that information.

(03:18):
But we've been married for about10 years now, and we've been so
blessed and fortunate to have a lot of people speak into our
marriage in our lives. And Amy is also a life coach and
she runs a company called Next Chapter coaching.
You can go check that out where she walks with women on
different, different, a lot of different things.
But we're just very passionate and about this topic,

(03:40):
communication in a relationship.It's something that we've had to
work a lot on together individually.
So we, we're on this growth pathand we're on this growth path
with you. We don't get funded for this
podcast. This is something we're just
passionate about. If you would like to support us,
please like, share, subscribe, all those sorts of things
actually goes a massive way for us.

(04:00):
So yeah, please do that. Send it to someone that you feel
would get a lot from this. Again, our mental aid episode
got a lot of attention and. It's been up for about a year
now. We constantly have people.
Even to today, we're getting a lot of people write in about
that and that's great. We love that we're so passionate
about this and we want to reach more people like that is our
hearts desire is to reach more people and to support more

(04:21):
relationships. And you guys already have a lot
of what you need, but a lot of what people don't have is the
words to explain it, you know? And that's what we want to
bring. Absolutely.
And another reason we started this podcast, which we don't
talk about very often, but one of the kind of aha moments we
had when we were deciding to do it was that we have had a lot of
people really speak into and encourage us in our relationship

(04:44):
along the way. Older people, people our age,
giving us support and encouragement and wanting us to
succeed. But not everyone has someone in
their life that they can trust to come to with things that
they're navigating in their relationship to not just side
with them. And so that's the approach we
have is we really want to help people understand what's going
on for themselves and help equipthem and give them practical

(05:06):
things to work on as an individual, but also help them
to strengthen and stretch their compassion and their curiosity
and their grace for their partner to understand the
context their partner is coming from too.
Because it's not black and whiteand these things are so complex.
So we decided when we were making this podcast, we wanted
to be those people for the people that don't have those
voices in their lives that mightgive just a slightly different

(05:28):
perspective, a slightly different tone to navigating the
challenges that you have in relationships.
So that's our heart behind it. That's the heart behind this
conversation, which is a really tricky one if we're honest.
It's a really tricky one to navigate, but it's an important
one and we think it's going to be really relevant to lots of
people because we've heard how relevant it is to lots of
people. We're going to dive in to this
conversation. Honey, we need to chat.

(06:01):
I want to just lay out a scenario for you because this is
who we're talking to today. You may have heard our episode
about mental load. You may have heard something
online, seeing people talking about it and all of a sudden it
undid something for you. It clicked a key in your mind.
That's like, that's what it is that I'm navigating.
Suddenly this terminology is in your mind to explain what it is

(06:23):
You've been struggling with things that you might not have
even been able to identify before.
And you're like, Oh my gosh, this is what it is.
I, I resonate so much with this.This is what I experienced.
And there's almost like an excitement like, oh, this is the
key. Like this is the thing that I'm,
I've been trying to explain. And so you may have gotten
excited or sat with it for a little while to figure out

(06:43):
what's going on. You may have thought I need to
bring this up with my partner. You may have been really scared
to bring it up with your partnerand you might have like tried to
figure out how to word it to bring them up, mustered the
courage, found a vulnerable moment to sit down and just
share your heart with your partner.
And then as you're sharing, it feels like you come up against a
brick wall. It feels like that door is
slammed in your face. You might be met with

(07:04):
defensiveness. You might be met with
disagreement, patronising, mighthave heard phrases like that's
not true, or I also do heaps or what about the work I do out of
the house? Why are you attacking me?
Are you criticising me? Whatever the range of difficult
responses that you might have been met with, you may have been
met with one of these. And that is that can be such a
deflating experience. And unfortunately, that might

(07:28):
just bring you right back into that whole that, that place of
isolation and that confusion andoverwhelm that you already were
in. Instead of this moment being
like, ah and aha, moving us forward, word positive, like
bringing us closer together. It actually just slinks you
right back into this hole of feeling like you have to carry
everything on your own. But also now you're feeling
unheard and unappreciated. And like I said earlier, this is

(07:49):
not unique to mental load, but we have had specifically so many
people express this kind of a, adynamic when it comes to raising
this topic with their partner. And that is a really hard thing
to experience. I just want to acknowledge that
now before we go into it. When you have found something
that means something to you and you express it to your partner
and they have not heard it or taken it in the way that you

(08:13):
were hoping that they would. And instead it just leaves you
feeling more isolated and more unheard and more insert whatever
word there. That is really tough.
It's really tough to see hope. It's really tough to feel like
there's any movement to go forward.
It's really tough to see a future and it just reinforces a
lot of the stuff that you've already navigated.
And there's a really tricky place to be in.
It's also not an unusual place to be in.

(08:34):
And we have navigated this like we have had conversations
similar to this that we have come out of and been like, I
just feel like I don't like there's no clarity there.
There's no, there's no understanding there or it just
wasn't received the way that we meant to it.
We everybody navigates this to some extent.
It's a really normal thing to experience in relationships.
It's a really hard thing to experience and especially if

(08:55):
there's a pattern of it. So these are the people we want
to talk to you today. If this is something you've
experienced, we want to help bring some practical things in
that might help you move forwardbecause it could feel like
there's no way forward if that'swhat you've gone through.
But it doesn't mean that you were wrong to bring it up.
It doesn't mean that you're invalid, and also doesn't mean
that there's no path forward andthe story just ends there.

(09:15):
So that's what we're trying to address today.
We. Want to encourage you like this
is awesome the fact that you've actually identified this the
fact that you're actually wanting to do something about it
it's awesome it's not a complaining thing it's a growth
thing you want to grow in your relationship you want to cope in
your relationship or whatever else good on you that's great
but the journey starts here. You know this and we've got to
commit to that journey and we'renot just going to throw it out

(09:37):
because hasn't worked once. Everybody is functioning in
their own little context. So little.
It's not little. It's massive and complex with so
many layers and so many things they bring into every single
moment of every day. And when you're in a
relationship with someone, you are in a similar orbit, like you
kind of have similar context. But Even so, this person who's
meant to be the closest person to you in the world can be

(09:59):
coming from a totally different perspective to you.
And there's a range of reasons why you might not be meeting in
this place that you're ready to meet in, you're ready to work
on, and your partner not, might not be.
So just because that happens does not mean that you're
powerless, doesn't mean that there's no way forward.
It's actually just one of the experiences you can have and

(10:19):
you're working with another human being.
So before we dive into this as well, we we've spoken a lot
about the word mental load and Ithink it's important that we
explain to you what it is as well.
Again, check out the full episode of mental load.
You're going to get a lot more from that.
But the googly eye approach to it, the response to it is mental
load refers to invisible ongoingcognitive effort required to

(10:41):
manage a household relationshipsand family life, especially
planning, organising, remembering and anticipating and
anticipating needs. It's not just the physical tasks
like doing laundry, but the mental tracking of everything
that needs to be done, often before anyone else even notices.
That's a bit of a a explanation.Our story how sort of came
about. You showed me how real how real

(11:02):
about this. And I remember even about the
real what. Was about grocery shopping.
Sorry, that's right. And so it's essentially, and I
was doing this, right, Like I was wanting to, you know, I
wanted to do more than just the,the typical man jobs around the
house. And so I said to Amy, look,
I'll, I'm going to go do the groceries.
I want to do that. You've done that a lot.
I'm going to do that and give you a night off.

(11:24):
But can you tell me everything that I need to get?
So I was trying to do something nice, but the mental load was
still on Amy to actually provideme what I needed to do the good
job. We've actually been trying to
teach our kids this a little bitrecently.
So when I, I now do the grocery shopping, that's something
that's grown from this exercise for us, but now we're wanting to
teach this to our kids. So what I try and do not every

(11:45):
time, but sometimes I'm like, all right, guys, I'm going to
the shops. What's the things that we need
around the house? And they run through the house,
the fridge, the pantry, whateverelse, their bathrooms, we need
soap left and they'll write a list of all the things that we
don't have any more. They sometimes come out with
some wild and wacky things. I'm like, no, we're not getting
a new PlayStation, but they, they, it just helps them think

(12:07):
at that level. So this was something that I had
to be taught. It didn't come naturally to me
and we worked on this together. And the, and the concept of it
was really interesting because if this had never come into our
world, we could have kept going exactly the same way.
I didn't have the words for thiseither until I saw this real, by
the way, like it had only been arecent term that I'd heard
about. But we could have just kept

(12:28):
going the same way with you being helpful.
I'm doing Bunny ears. You attempting to be helpful and
saying, I'm going to go do the groceries, tell me what we need.
And then me trying to figure outwhat we need and then feeling
overwhelmed and not sure why. And we could have just kept
going and going and going and not have figured out.
It could build resentment and that kind of thing and

(12:49):
frustration and overwhelm. And it did.
I remember it was, it was a while ago in a very different
life situation, life stage than it is now.
But I do remember feeling just kind of burnt out and not really
sure why. And it wasn't just the
groceries, just to be clear, butlike, but this is the system
that was in place and that couldhave just continued like that
could have gone on and on and on.
And I'd be like, kind of like, meh, I'm not really sure why.

(13:11):
And then you would be like, I'm helping and not really see a
need to to do anything else in that space because that box is
checked. Without this understanding of
this additional layer, we would have been functioning in a
system that was not sustainable without having a way to explain
why suddenly this real comes into our lives.
And well, it comes into my life 1st.
And I was like, Oh my gosh, yes,yes.

(13:33):
And then I opened up a whole like, oh, it's like it's opening
up the underground of all the systems that go on in your
relationship. But I do remember when I saw
that I, I sat on it for a littlewhile and I think how I actually
raised it with you. I was I was like, this would be
good to share on dad's group because this is something mums
keep talking about. Work.
This is our job. Yeah, Yeah.
And I, and I mean it would be good to share on dad's group,
but I was like, I don't want to come.

(13:54):
I didn't know how to bring it upto you without making it feel
like an attack because you are really helpful person just
naturally. And I, I didn't want to just
like come out the gate and be like, I need you to watch this
because this is me. So we had like, I came out a
gentle kind of probably a passive way.
And maybe I don't don't necessarily think that's the
best way to do that, but that's how it it came up and then it

(14:16):
opened up this conversation and it was like an aha for you as
well. Huge for you.
I never thought of that. Well, I even asked you the
question. I'm like, do you feel like this?
And that was and then you said yes, like, wow, I just had no
idea. And so like, and that was just
the starting point. It was a conversation that
started to unfold as we went. And it wasn't something that all

(14:36):
of a sudden snap. Blair was like fully aware of
all the mental load I carried orall of a sudden I felt super
released in that space. It also didn't mean that all of
a sudden Blair is responsible for all my mental load.
And that's a really important nuance with this too, because
one of the reasons why I think this conversation gets a little
bit messed, messy is that the mental load we put on ourselves

(14:58):
is different to the mental load that needs to be done.
And so especially for someone like me who gets anxious or I'm
really like obsessive about things or like quite
perfectionistic about tasks and stuff like that, I don't need to
hand over my level of mental load to you and then expect that
you're just going to take it on the same way I do because that's
not fair. It's not even healthy.

(15:19):
It's not even healthy for me to have my mental load this way.
So it's not about all of a sudden what you have in your
head is what's right to be doingand and balancing and then the
other person has to get on boardwith that.
And I think that's one reason there's sometimes a disconnect
because one partner, the receiving partner of this
conversation could be like, yeah, but I'm not like that's a
that's a you problem is some a phrase we keep hearing from

(15:40):
people too. Like that's a you problem that's
going on in your head. That's something you need to
navigate. And there is that balance like
that is a balance like, yes, youhave taken on more than you need
to, but I can't change that for you.
That's a you thing. So it wasn't something that just
so all of a sudden Blair took oneverything that I had and it's
and it happens all the time. And we've actually flip flopped
a lot since this too, because there have been times where you

(16:01):
now are carrying the mental loadand we've had that conversation
and I'm aware, well, I'm really not carrying this load in this
space as well. But it's not necessarily that
it's been flip flopping. It's like, oh, now you're doing
mental load. Now I'm doing mental load.
It's it's more about we're just more aware of what the the
struggle is, but it's just givenus a, a word to use.
Like This is why I'm struggling,not that I'm now doing doing

(16:24):
this to you. Yeah, it's, it's, I think that's
a very important part. Of the conversation, it's also
not about it being equal and it's never going to be equal.
And I think if people start to try and be like, let's make this
equal, it just gets way too complicated because we've also
had a lot of people, especially the part, the partner that works
out of the house, which tends tobe the man more being like, but
what about all the stuff that I do outside of the house?

(16:46):
That's stressful and that's that's valid and relevant as
well to the conversation. So it you can't start to like
score it up and find an equal standing, but the conversation
and the understanding and appreciation, the recognition is
what's really important in this conversation.
So that's what mental load is. And definitely check out the
first one. I think it's almost a necessity.

(17:07):
Check that. One in the episode just then,
but. So if this is you Fast forward,
you've had all of this understanding, you've navigated
and you've then raised it and ithas not been received well.
This is where it would be so easy to just like get super
stuck on this thing and super stuck in feeling hopeless, like

(17:28):
there's no way forward, like you're unheard, understandably.
But one thing that I think is really important is that we
actually zoom out of this topic.Mental load is important,
whatever topic you've raised, really important, but we need to
zoom out when we're feeling stuck like that.
We're not stuck for no reason. And until we have an idea of
what's going on, it's going to be like we're just shooting in
the dark. We've got no idea where to go,

(17:50):
what to do, what's going on behind it.
It's kind of like a maze. You get stuck in these mazes.
Not that I've ever been stuck ina maze, but in my mind, stuck in
a maze, You can like work for ages to try and get out of it,
or you can zoom out and get the big picture of how you got there
and how to go forward in a delicate and complex little
dance. So that's what our first thing
is, is just to zoom out. If this is how you're feeling,

(18:11):
let's zoom out a little bit. Gently step back.
And this isn't a giving up kind of stepping back.
It's not a going quiet and not talking about this thing.
It's just a zooming out to see what is going on for you, what
might be going on for your partner, what's going on that
has brought you to this place and what is a way forward.
That's going to be encouraging and helpful for both partners in

(18:32):
this. Because this piece of the puzzle
is important and can feel when you have that all all of a
sudden unlocked, it can feel like the most important thing to
fix or to work on or to identifyor to communicate about.
And it is important, but it didn't just happen that way.
There's so many reasons why couples find themselves years
down the track, months down the track in these rhythms and

(18:54):
patterns with these systems happening in these things that
are not working well. There's so many reasons that
build the context around that. There are things that you've
built together over years and years of repetition and
understanding. So we've got a whole episode as
well on unspoken contracts and that's this.
You slowly, overtime, build rhythms, build roles, build

(19:15):
these unspoken expectations thatplay out in your relationship,
and there's little steps along the way that have played into
that. That can mean that you're
suddenly in a place that's no longer sustainable for you, and
that's relevant to work on. But unless you understand how
what system got you there, it can be really hard to figure out
how to move forward. And from the partners
perspective too, you could be cruising along in this system

(19:38):
that looks like it's working to you.
And all of a sudden your partnerhas identified that it's not
only this little thing that's being difficult for them.
It's like this whole like years and years of patterns that have
been hurting them that they've suddenly become aware of.
And that's a huge thing to wrap your head around.
Like all of a sudden you're as areceiving partner having to
figure out what they're talking about and and catch up to this

(20:01):
internal conversation that theirpartners been having for a.
A long time. So it's important to be taking
this time to figure out what hashappened to bring you here.
So sometimes when you're bringing these things up, it's
not your partner just hearing what you're saying in that
certain conversation. It's not that content that
they're hearing. They might be hearing a threat,
they might be hearing a criticism, they might be feeling
defensiveness because they're feeling really uncomfortable

(20:22):
with something big shifting. It could be an insecurity that
they're aware of or they're scared of that has been playing
out for them in different ways for a long time.
I. Think it's really important.
So there's a a number of different things when we're
approaching these conversations like you, you know how you
mentioned you came to me when wewere talking about mental load
and you showed me you're reelingand you kind of did it more of a
passive way. I don't think that's necessarily

(20:43):
the right way. It's just the way that you did
it, right? And it was where we were at in
our conversation, in our relationship where, you know,
union, I was trying to work on stuff.
I knew you were trying to work on stuff and we saw that and
we're able to work on stuff, right?
So that's from the place that wewere at.
But there's been times where you've brought stuff up and I'm
triggered, like I don't respond in that same way.
And then what we've had to do inthat time is understand, but why

(21:06):
have I been triggered? Like what has triggered me?
What else has fed into that conversation?
For a lot of people, if you, and, and for a lot of times for
us as well, you might bring something up and I get offended
or defensive. And then afterwards, what's what
we've identified is that I'm nowoperating out of a fear or
anxiety. Are you accusing me of this?

(21:27):
And it's like, why would that beso offensive?
Well, from some of the stuff that we've spoken about, it can
either come across or I'm receiving it in a way that
you're saying that I'm going to be a specific person.
Like I'm going to like, you know, whatever The thing is,
I'm, I'm just not wanting to go into details there.
But and I'm like, you know, I donot want to be that type of

(21:48):
person. You know, I work so hard, I put
so many boundaries. I'll do all this was off.
And now you're saying that, you know, you think now it's coming
across, you think that I'm goingto be this sort of person.
You're questioning me in this area.
And I get a lot of insecurities come up in that moment.
It's no longer just about the conversation we've been having.
It's actually all my insecurities coming to the table

(22:08):
as well. And we're getting people write
insurance as well. And I'm not going to go through
specific stories because we haven't been given permission to
do that, but we have writings and people.
And, and it sounds like the responses are coming from a
place of defensiveness or comingfrom a place of, you know,
triggered, triggered, they're triggered.
And, and what's so important in this point is understanding
that's where the conversation goes from just mental load,

(22:30):
which is hard. It can be hard.
And that's what we're saying. This is just the start of the
journey. Once off conversation is not
going to change something. Once off conversation of mental
load didn't change things for Amy and I, it was the start of
that journey together and that commitment to the journey
together. So with a lot of people, there's
a lot of things that can be fitting into this.
It could be, you know, if you'rea parent, it could be their

(22:50):
insecurity of not being the dad that they wanted to be or the
husband or partner that they wanted to be.
And so now it could be they could be receiving it as an
accusation that the they're the thing that they didn't want to
be. That's gonna cause a trigger.
And for me, it has caused triggers and, and I respond out
of that trigger. Another thing too could be like
work stress. All right, so you know, for for

(23:11):
a lot of people, and again, thisis a, this is a lot more in
family dynamics where you've gotkids and so forth, where it is
typically, typically and not always, but typically the man
that's at work and the woman andthe mum is at home more
regularly. And the conversation goes around
outside work and inside work, right.
Well, that's something that you and I have spoken about as well.
Sometimes when you've come to mefor help and I've had a very

(23:35):
intense season at work, like youmight be struggling, you might
be burning out like relationallyor emotionally.
I might be burning out work wiseand for the same things, but in
a different context. But now all I'm hearing is, do
you want me to do more? I'm already struggling.
And again, that's just the startof the conversation to
understand where each person's coming to from that

(23:56):
conversation. It's not straight up.
Also, I think like these insecurities can present so
differently for everybody. So in your situation, you have
put a lot of effort into not being what you don't want to be.
Some people, and this is me in certain areas of life, I I'm so
scared to be this certain way that I then feel paralysed and I

(24:17):
just like, it's like I entrench into that way of being.
Yeah. So it's not, you wouldn't look
like I'm putting work into not being it.
I'm just very scared that I'm becoming it and I am becoming
it. And then if someone comes in and
like, talks to me, addresses that area of my life, even
though it doesn't look like it'snot obvious that I'm aware of
it, I'm so scared and anxious and insecure about it and

(24:39):
shameful of it that the moment it's raised, it's like rare.
And it's just like, people are so complex and our fears and our
insecurities and our thoughts and our processing is so complex
that the reactions are information that help us figure
out what's going on. They're all little pieces of a
puzzle. I was saying to someone recently
like usually people don't react if they're not triggered.

(25:01):
Usually if they're, if they're reacting big, it's because
they're triggered about something.
The reactions come because you've got some kind of story.
So when that's happening, there's a reason that that's
happening and it can be a story that you can unfold and work on
together. The other thing that we found
happened and we've talked about this on the show a few times is
we'll raise something and we didthis in one of our big

(25:22):
discussions recently. And we'll be like, I've been
doing this, this and this, and then you've been doing this.
And then like the other partner will be like, I've been doing
that and you've been doing this and it's like you've both we've
talked about this in scorekeeping.
It's another episode to listen to.
There's all of these things likethey build into each other.
You've built this score keeping thing in your head where you're
like, I've been doing this and this and this and this and

(25:44):
they're doing this and you have this internal thing going on.
But sometimes both partners havea scorekeeping thing going on.
And so when a conversation like mental load comes up, like
you've said, with work stress, for example, you know, the
working partner or the full timepartner, however you want to
define it, however it looks for your relationship might be like,
might have been thinking like, it's really hard.

(26:04):
It's really hard to be working all the time to feel the stress
of having to provide for my family.
I'm burnt out and then I come home and the house is
overwhelming and stressful. And there's this whole score
keeping thing going on for them.So when the other partner raises
to them that they're overwhelmedbecause of all these things that
they're carrying, it can feel like a you've got no idea what
I'm carrying kind of thing. Like you can just like trigger

(26:27):
this waterfall of like I've got enough on my plate and these are
all the things I'm carrying or these are all the things you
aren't doing. And both partners can be really
valid in having these thoughts. Unfortunately, the score keeping
process keeps it really internala lot of the time and
assumptions get made and there'snot you come at it.
When you're in that kind of place, you can come out your

(26:48):
conversations quite defensively and wanting to like argue your
side. And so that when that's your
approach to a conversation, it can be really hard to wade
through that and get clarity. And when we've had that happen,
a lot of the time we've had to take a break because we're just
so stuck in that. We say like, oh, look, we're
just gonna round circles. Like we're not getting to a
resolve here, so we need to cover break, come back and then

(27:08):
we're like, Oh yeah, that's whatwe did again.
Yeah. And we can have a conversation
from there. The other thing too is, you
know, just to this is obvious, but again, this is topic is on
mental load. It can sometimes get confused
with task load. So the task load is like the
amount of things that you're doing.
The mental load is the thought process behind it all.
And so just not to confuse the two there.

(27:30):
And this, the task load sort of goes into scorekeeping and stuff
like that as well. But what we're trying to do, and
this can help navigate the conversation, you're not
necessarily just asking for yourpartner to do more tasks.
Sometimes that easier if you're burning out and you just need
that relief for a little bit. Like, look, can you just do this
for me for a period of time or whatever else?
I just need this help here. That's great.

(27:50):
That's a conversation you guys can have.
But what we're talking about specifically is the mental load.
Something that really helped. And we've spoken before about
how much I struggled with my mental health during COVID.
And we, we moved out of Melbourne because lockdowns were
absolutely insane and we moved out to a rural town that we're
in now. I was struggling so much that I

(28:12):
was really struggling to even work, just to show up to work.
I was just struggling so, so much.
And we had a year nearly where Amy was the main worker and I
was a stay at home dad. And that gave me a whole other
level of understanding of what it took to be a stay at home
parent because from my lens, me going to work and coming home,

(28:34):
it's not now that one is easier than the other.
It's different. And unless we actually do the
thing that's different, we don'tfully understand what the other
person is is coping with or dealing with or going through,
you know, thinking about even SO11 suggestion that I have too.
If you guys are open for this aswell in your relationship is do
a complete swap, right? So all your tasks they now do,

(28:59):
all of their tasks you now do and just for like a week.
Or something just as an. Exercise to be like just so you
see just so you experience because then when Amy would come
to me after that that period of time, Amy would come to me with
something that she might be struggling with and I'm like, Oh
no, I get that I understand thatnow because until that moment I

(29:20):
didn't there was no understanding.
So when Amy came to me with thatreel I had understanding wasn't
from this very brand new perspective of what are you
talking about I have a lot of mental load too.
No, no, it's different. This is just different and we
don't understand this. We can't actually fully engage
into that conversation because there's a whole level of getting

(29:40):
to that point of understanding first.
Yeah, I think if your partner that has had your partner raise
this concern and you just don't get it, that's a really good way
to go about it. If you don't, if you don't get
what your partner is saying and this kind of goes across the
board, you don't understand. It doesn't seem important to you
and you don't really understand why it's a big deal to them.
Then take some time to try and put yourself in that

(30:02):
perspective, whether it's something like this where you
can take a week and be like, I'll do these things just to try
and understand. Like if our goal as a
relationship is to be closer together and to be loving each
other and to be wanting the bestfor each other.
If that's what our goal is as a relationship and that's what it
should be because that's what love is, then we should be

(30:22):
willing to be like, OK, I know this person I love is saying
something that I do not understand and I maybe don't
agree with and I don't really see, but it's important to them.
So I'm going to try and figure out why it's important.
Yeah. And just letting yourself be
curious and letting yourself like challenge yourself in
things. Where works for you guys to
expand your understanding of that, and then you can come at
the conversation in a much more gentle and open way.

(30:46):
Even if you still don't agree, Even if you still have
disagreements or need to have like a bit of a hashing out of
that conversation, that's fine. But at least you've spent the
time trying to put them in mind.And I think it's what's
important. Don't just do it once.
Don't just like I'll do your task one time because it's not
that's not going to help the mental load.
The mental load is the ongoing thought process exactly like

(31:06):
that's where the issue is. So you want to be doing it for
at least week, something that you know, and this is something
that we've we've grown in overtime.
OK, So just just just to keep reminding you we're not some
special couple that have just got it straight away.
We put the work in. All right, So you need to put
the work in. But a place that we're up to now
is I do all the grocery shoppingand I do a lot of the meal
preps, not so meal planning, notall of them.

(31:28):
And I take care of the kids lunches because it's not about I
don't do all the cooking. We we both share that role and
it's mainly Amy because by the time the kids are hungry, we
usually start cooking before I finish work, right?
So it's just time. Situationally.
Situationally, like that's wherewe're at in regards to help Amy
in that situation or for us to actually work as a team.

(31:49):
It's not even just helping Amy, it's just operating as a team.
I do the grocery shopping and I've thought out the meal plans.
I know like what our kids do, like what they don't like, what
they need to have, what they don't need to have.
I put a lot of thought process into that.
And then I do do the shoppings once a week and then Amy takes a
lot of the practical stuff from there.

(32:10):
And straight away Amy's well more prepared for the week.
Our kids are more well prepared for the week and actually is
really fun. I really enjoy knowing these
things about our kids. Amy was Amy and I were both
doing the lunches yesterday for our kids and I, I usually do
them and it was it was actually so I really enjoy this process
now, the whole process set up, but Amy was like, all right,

(32:31):
what age kid want? Like, what do they each have?
Like it's an art, It's a sciencehere.
Like there's so much going on, like the for each lunch box that
I've got a pack here. But it's it's so nice actually
knowing that more about our kids, but that that's that's us
anyway. And what we'd have to work too.
What's interesting about that specifically is like I did
lunches until, yeah, whenever, like a year, a year ago.

(32:54):
And there were certain things that I was like, like, yeah,
I'll make sure. Like one of our kids really
doesn't like tomatoes. So I'm not going to give him
tomatoes because he just won't eat them.
But I'll also make sure he's gotsomething else.
So there's stuff like that. But I did not make it an art
form and like willingly. So I was like, no, I'm not
asking you guys what I want. What you want on your sandwich
is I don't have time to. And what was interesting was

(33:14):
when you've stepped into this, you now enjoy it, but we didn't
know you enjoyed it. Also, you like it's telling that
you make the lunch so specifically to them and it was
telling that I couldn't mentallytake that on board exactly
because I just was like, not that's a leg way down the line
of things I'm going to think about like figuring out what you
want for lunch. But now you've taken this task

(33:36):
and it's like a nice, not easy all the time, but like it's a
nice, neat task where you can not only just get the bare
minimum out for them, but it's also something you're enjoying
doing and it's something you're making unique for them.
I think that's the part, right? I really enjoy.
Like, not for each kid in mind. Yeah.
When I'm packing their thing, I'm like, this is this is that.
This is like, this is you. It's a part.
It's like this is part of you. Exactly.

(33:57):
And you didn't and we didn't know that.
So that like think about the things that you guys could be
sitting on as a couple that you don't know you will love doing
and you don't know you'll work so much better as a team in like
there's so many things. If you haven't tried it, you
might actually love cooking. Like Blair loves cooking and I
like cooking, but I think it's easy to say he loves cooking a

(34:18):
lot more than I do. So if we never had pushed into
that, then. I would have never, I would have
never grown to. I understand that about myself,
right? Like I really do.
I don't always have time for it to put the time in that I want
to because it's it's, you know, when you've got young kids
around, everything's impossible,you know?
Yeah, exactly. Right.
Well, you learn more about yourself by going into that.

(34:39):
And I think the other thing too,that we need to discuss, as well
as the typical gender roles, right?
So there's even been moments. So you grew up in a household
and this isn't a bad thing. If this is what you guys decide
on, that's great. Good for you guys that you've
decided on this together, but you grew up in a in a household
that was very much typical gender roles.
I didn't there was that for a little bit but like my mum went

(35:00):
bricklaying and you know, did a lot of like trade work and stuff
like that it. Was a shared load.
It was. A shared load for practical
stuff, not mental stuff. And, and so I think what's
important here, though, is we went through moments where I
might look, I just, I want you just to know how to mow a lawn.
Like, OK, like there was these. I just wanted you to just try.
You've never done it before. And I'm like, I just want you to

(35:22):
try and you did it and you just,you were open to it.
I mow the lawns. But that's what we've decided
now. It's not that you can't do it or
won't do it. It's like, no, no, no, you're
doing this area. I'm doing that area and we've
decided on that together. So just just, that is a
challenge that a lot of people do have to face.
But it's this thing that they'vefallen into, not necessarily
something that they've discussed.

(35:42):
So that's what we want to encourage is just dive into the
conversation if you're struggling with the gender role
stuff, not downplaying it, not saying it's bad or anything else
like that, but it just just workon that understanding of how can
we work better as a team in the decision that we've made to to
operate in this way. Yeah, that's a really
interesting one for us too, though.
I was actually having this conversation with my friend this

(36:04):
week because when we were doing premarital counselling, in my
mind I was like, I'll be the stay at home mum.
Like I just always had thought that's what would happen.
I'd be a stay at home mum. You'll work and when we're like
splitting up the jobs and that kind of thing, the classic like
outdoor things you'll do and then I'll do the inside stuff.
And that I just had this idea inmy head that that's how it was
gonna to be. And then because you had such a

(36:24):
different upbringing, you were like, oh, we'll share these
tasks. And I was just like, OK, but
whatever. Like it was a really weird thing
for me to be like, well, we can.I just wasn't thinking we would.
And then when we actually got married, I realised, Oh no, I'm
not this person at all. I'm just not.
And like, I really struggle to be at home.
Like I even when I'm home and there's been times where I've

(36:46):
like stripped back what I'm doing.
So I'm not like I'll take on toomuch and then I'll strip it back
and be like, no, I have to be home.
And then I'll just be like, thisis a business idea And I just,
my brain does not cope while keeping house.
And that's why we're having thisconversation because my friend
loves that, like she loves that so much.
And I can't get my head in that space.
But had we decided then and there that this was what was

(37:09):
going to happen? And we both had these ideas and
we went into our marriage and then into parenthood with that
is like, this is what's going tohappen And we didn't have a
flexibility about it. I would be burning out because
I'm just really not that way. And so, like you might have had
that conversation. Some people fall into it because
they've like had their parent. They've you learn from what
you've seen growing up. You learn from the culture

(37:31):
around you. And you can, you know, sometimes
you'll rebel against it or sometimes you'll like push into
it, but that's a lot of the timewhat impacts how you end up
where you do. You may have just fallen into it
and that's why you're functioning that way.
Or you might have had a conversation like we did at the
beginning. So you know, this is what the
expectations will be and that's how you've come into it.
But you need, you need to have aflexibility about if something's

(37:51):
not working, you, you work on ittogether, you adjust something.
Life can be flexible. That's a perfect example of just
because that's what you decided was going to work before doesn't
mean it has to always work that way.
And just because you know you might hold this value doesn't
mean that that isn't a value that has like insurance and outs
or has like little caveats that mean different things for each

(38:13):
person. Like it's not.
Different seasons. Different seasons.
Are really important too, like, you know, we we do get right and
they're like, I'm just burning now.
It's like cool season, like havea break for a season, change
something for a season. If it's just to get you out of
that space for a season so you can come back into that space
more rejuvenated, like do that, you know, put these things in
place. We have too high of an

(38:35):
expectation for ourselves a lot of the time and and our
relationships and our culture and our you know, XYZ.
We have the expectation. We have this conversation and
it's like sometimes can be so rigid and it's like, man, but I
just need a break. Like, you know, life has so many
other complexities and things feeding into that mental load,

(38:57):
that task load, everything else.So we just it's a continual
journey conversation, evaluate, check in, Wellness check in is
really, really important. How are you actually going?
And then adjusting from that place rather than these
expectations of you'll do that, you'll do that, That's how it
is. And and that's set in stone kind
of thing. Yeah, 100%.

(39:18):
So you've had this conversation,right?
You've had this conversation. It's it's very clear to you that
you're struggling with mental load.
You've come up against a brick wall.
Your partner is not engaged in This is defensive, shuts it
down, dismisses it. Whatever has happened for you,
that's when it's really easy to just like go back into your
little hole. And then you're like, all right,
I'm not going to bring it up again.

(39:38):
That was frustrating or hurtful or I'm silly or I'm selfish or
whatever is going on for you. I'm just going to overcompensate
and do everything that I've beendoing and make up for it and not
bring it up again. It's too painful to have these
conversations. That's such a common story.
The thing is that is not a long term solution and ever like
that's why and I make all these reels all the time and I feel

(39:58):
really annoying because I'm justlike, I always say it, but like
you have to communicate. Yes, if a person's not
communicating back with you about this or they've been
really discouraging, that's really tough.
Like I don't want to undermine that at all.
That's incredibly tough, but it is not a long term solution to
just. Go back into your little shell
and and not address this thing anymore because what happens

(40:19):
then is all the things that we've listed.
Resentment builds, which turns into contempt.
That's one of Gottman's 4 horsemen of relationships, which
means it's one of the biggest. It is out of those four, the
biggest indicator of a relationship in crisis, the
biggest indicator of a relationship that if it stays
that way, will not survive. Resentment and contempt are
really tricky holes to come out of because they are a habit.

(40:43):
They are a an attitude, they arethe philtre through which you
see everything. And a lot of the time they're
there for really legitimate reasons.
But once you fall into that, it's really hard to see any
positivity, any hope, any movement, movement forward.
So you might think, I'm not going to rock the boat again and
I'm just going to go back into my shell and do this stuff.

(41:03):
The reality is that is going to start to build a story.
So you're going to find yourselfscore keeping or building
contempt or resentment, or you'll find yourself
overcompensating and just burning out more and more.
You'll probably find yourself resenting your partner.
You'll probably find yourself finding it harder and harder to
see the things that that partnerhas been tributing to your

(41:23):
family, to your relationship andthe positives about them.
You're going to find it harder and harder to react in a way
that shows that probably you'll find your body language starts
to adjust to this attitude and this broken trust and this broke
broken sense of relationship. And you probably find things
like more eye rolling. You'll find that physical touch

(41:43):
starts to drop off. You'll find that you're shorter
fused or you're you're less engaged, you're more distant.
All of these things start to build over time when these
important topics are not communicated about and when
you're holding yourself back from communicating.
And The thing is, it might feel like that's fine, I'm carrying
it on my own, but that starts tothen build a story to your
partner, like your partner starts to then take in a story

(42:06):
that you're not even voicing about how you're acting and how
they're observing you. We also have this saying that
silence can also be a really loud conversation, but you're
just not using your words for it.
So, and this is what's really tricky, because then that
conversation is all up for interpretation.
It's like, well, I don't know what you're silent about.

(42:26):
All I know is that there's something going on for you.
Now I'm gonna interpret that in any way from any position that
I'm in currently, right? Don't.
Don't let it it gets that point.Or don't.
If you're in that point, don't let yourself stay there.
It it might feel like a temptation to you.
You've raised something important.
It might feel like a temptation to you.
Like, no, I'm just not. It's not worth bringing it up.
He never takes it. Well, I'm just gonna keep doing

(42:49):
it the way I'm doing it and carry it.
But the reality is that is not along term solution and it is not
going to make it easier or more healthy or fix anything.
And so we're, we're zoomed out, right?
We're, we're looking beyond the mental load.
We're looking at what's the context that's going on?
What is it that has built these unspoken contracts?

(43:09):
We're looking at what the implications are if you don't
communicate this. And a lot of relationships stay
at this place, like they don't push forward through here or
they will eventually, but it'll be years down the track when
it's just built these systems and systems and processes and
these habits and there's ways ofrelating that are really hard to
weed through. It's like a massive knot that
you're just trying to undo. And so this does not have to be

(43:32):
where that conversation stops orwhere that story ends.
It doesn't have to be where yourhope dies and there's no way
forward. And The thing is, a lot of a lot
of our arguments have not been the switching point for us.
Like that is not where the change has happened.
A lot of the change that we've seen has come in after and
argument or a disagreement afterthat really horrible
conversation when we're when we've been able to come back at

(43:54):
it with curiosity and a gentleness, that's when we've
seen the biggest change. And so just because this
conversation has not gone forward for you, hasn't felt
like you're you're not getting breakthrough in this space does
not mean that that's ruined. Actually, a lot of the time the
biggest transformation can come through after the fact.
So if you're in this place whereit hasn't gone well, there are

(44:15):
things that we can do to find a way.
You've zoomed out, you've got that context to find a way to
continue to build closer connection with your partner in
a way that will bring you closertogether in the long run without
having to be getting stuck on this repeating loop about
whatever it is you've raised, inthis case, mental load.
It might be times where your partner isn't ready to have this

(44:36):
conversation. Yeah.
And we've had that. And it might be a matter of
stepping back from this specificconversation and just
reconnecting. Yeah, exactly.
Because if you're coming from a point where you don't really
talk about stuff in the 1st place and you just sort of
coexisting with each other or only bringing stuff up when
there's an issue, there's going to be that history of tension or

(44:56):
that history of triggers coming into the conversation as well.
So setting the tone, setting that scene for you guys is going
to be really important and a great place to start.
We talk about, you know, there'sso many things that can feed
into not having date nights again, you can have date nights
at home again. We've got another episode on
that, but and we've also got a resource on our website on, on
what you could, what that could look like as well.

(45:18):
So go check that that if you want some help.
But having that quality time, undisrupted time or set the tone
for future conversations, and I know you know, you might be
feeling burnt out and that mightbe a hard thing for you to hear
is man, but I need something to change now.
I hear that and it's hard and itsucks, but we're going to have
the long term goal in mind here.We want to have the Longview

(45:41):
goal in mind here, not just immediate changes.
And it does. It takes time.
We've been coming from places ofexhaustion and stress and all
that, and it's hard. I think a lot of the times when
you're coming up against something that your partner just
is like not coming to the table on stripping it back to
connecting again. And we've had this happen in
arguments where we're like, we, I think this is, we're so

(46:03):
intense on this right now because we just don't feel
connected. We don't see each other outside
of these things. So just stripping it back to how
can we reconnect in our relationship and taking those
little moments, those little repairs.
And I think it's the Gottman Institute that talks about these
mini repairs, which we'll talk about them in a second to just
have little moments of reconnection.

(46:24):
There is a point in your relationship, there's a part
where you agree and that can sometimes be as far back as we
love each other. And so trying to find that place
that you agree and then working from there can be a really
helpful way. So here are some things that you
can do, some practical things ifthis is your experience.
And the first, we're going to start with things that you can
do on your own without your partner having to come to the

(46:46):
table on this, because sometimesyou will be walking this with an
unwilling partner, but you aren't powerless in that
situation. There are things you can
implement to help you and to help your relationship and to
help your partner. The first thing is a recognition
process for yourself. So just marking down what it is
you're achieving, what it is you're doing, helping get some

(47:06):
of that mental load out of your head.
And I've found this really helpful for myself because
sometimes the mental load becomes this really noisy storm
going on. And when you actually get it out
of your head onto paper, it feels so much calmer, feel so
much more manageable. And that's one of the reasons
why having a conversation with your partner can be so helpful
when they're willing to have that conversation because it's

(47:27):
like you're getting it out of your head and you're putting it
out into the world and it's justa little bit calmer.
If they're not ready, ready for that conversation, you can still
do that process. You can write down all the
things you're you're navigating,all the things you're holding,
all the concerns you've got, howthey all pan out.
Just spend time just getting it out of your brain onto paper.
And if you need to do that everynight or something like that,
just to keep yourself feeling like you've got some a bit of

(47:49):
clarity or a bit of movement there, you can do that.
Another thing that's really important because we've spoken
about how damaging contempt can be on a relationship or
resentment can be, is spending time intentionally recognising
what you love about your partner.
And this can be helpful anytime that you're feeling
disconnected. It can be really hard to
continue to appreciate them whenyou're feeling unappreciated or

(48:10):
you're feeling unloved or unheard.
But if you can continue to bringan attitude of appreciation and
love, it can be a game changer as well.
So just having again, making a note of all the things, things
that you notice may even if it'sjust one thing in a day that you
write down on your notes on yourphone or a piece of paper or
something and saying, I appreciated this or I noticed
this about them. And that can help to reset your

(48:32):
attitude, which can then help atleast bring calm a little bit
more calm. But at the some situations can
be a game changer to how you're interacting with each other.
Picking one thing that you really would like to ask for
specific help on. They might not be willing to
have the whole conversation about mental load.
But if you're like, I'm really at the point where I just can't
keep doing these things, try onesmall thing and say to them, I'm

(48:53):
feeling burnt out and like I can't manage this.
Do you mind taking this for a little time?
And if they come back to you andthey say, I can't take that on,
that's too much, then you can use that as a curiosity moment
and say what is something that feels reasonable for you to take
from my plate for for a time andjust start a small little
boundary setting process. Really important one is also
involve A respected and wise third party.

(49:16):
If you're feeling like you're not getting anywhere forward,
finding someone that is, that you respect and that is a wise
and healthy input into this to talk about it can be huge.
Or getting like a counsellor, seeing a counsellor, doing some
psychology, getting some supportfor yourself, even if your
partner's not willing to do thatat this stage, because having
that other voice can be a game changer for you.

(49:38):
And this is really important. If you're reaching out to a
friend or that wise counsellor, that is not a person that is
just necessarily going to be taking your side to gossip about
your partner. That is not what we're talking
about here. And that is not helpful to the
situation at all. And it's not excusing what your
partner may or may not be doing,but it's more about the person's
is going to speak a life into your into your life, into your

(50:00):
situation and hope into your situation.
Someones there to comfort and care, not critique and put down
your. Partner.
Yeah, absolutely. And then then let's and then
there's some things you guys cando together.
So small things that can make break it down.
So there's little movements forward, even when it feels like
you can't come to the same agreement on the same thing.

(50:21):
So micro connections. So a small thing that you can
ask each other or your partner every day.
So what felt heavy for you today?
And this is back to that Wellness check because when
you've had this conversation andit's been met with an intense
reaction and we've spoken about how usually that's because
there's something else going on for them.
This part of the conversation, this part of the practise can
actually help you to start to understand what might be going

(50:43):
on for them. And it could be that they're
really close to Bernard at work,or it could be that they're
really stressed about something or something like that.
So just asking a small question that's not a huge thing and it's
very specific so they can answerit.
It's not a big open ended thing.What felt heavy for you today
can be really helpful for building connection again with
them. If you can set aside time as

(51:03):
well to have a check in night, have that date night.
If you can go out, amazing. If not, find a time at home and
use the resource that we've got online even to just check in
with each other, touch base again and get back to being
like, what is it that is the foundation for our relationship?
Where are we wanting to go? Is it that we just love each
other and we want to be closer together in five years time?
Is that the basic and just get the foundation out again and

(51:25):
retouch on what you agree about your relationship and where
you're wanting to work towards? And if you're not at that place
yet, start this, start the routine of actually catching up,
right? So make it fun.
Have a games night, have a drink, have a night a week where
you're like, this is the time that we're gonna have together
and build off that. So like Amy said before, like

(51:47):
you need money to like scratch back all the way to the basic,
basic, basic. Just identify what can you guys
do now that will be enjoyable and both will come to the table
for start there and then grow from that point.
Exactly. Also the curiosity question,
we've found it so much more encouraging to come to the table

(52:07):
with a curiosity about each other.
And we've had our guests a few weeks back, Sam and Liv, we're
talking about being students of each other, having this attitude
of wanting to learn more about your partner.
So if you've been met with this conversation you've raised has
been met with an intense response, finding a neutral
time, even at a check in night or something like that, where
you can be like, what happened for you when I raised this

(52:29):
conversation or what's going on for you or what did that make
you think and feel? Because I feel like there was
more to your response than just the conversation itself.
And asking them questions, curious, gentle, not passive
aggressive questions to try and understand what was going on for
them more. And that has been for us a game
changer in reconnecting and finding ways forward and things

(52:51):
that we haven't felt like we cansee the way forward before.
Because it starts to help you and help your partner and help
you guys as individuals assess what might be happening inside
in a gentle way, not in like a shutdown survival mode way.
And the last thing is starting with the story, it's you saying,
I'm really struggling and I don't know what to do.
Can you help me figure out what to do?

(53:12):
And starting with the story of what's going on for you so that
your partner has an opportunity to step up in that curious way,
to step up in that loving way tofigure out how to support you
instead of it feeling like a criticism against them.
If I get criticised, my barriersgo up.
If you ask me for help, my compassion raises, you know, I
mean, because I want to be therefor you, I want to support you,

(53:33):
I want to care for you. So what's really important about
this is we got to have the otherperson in mind.
How do they receive or how will they receive?
When I approach them with this? We want them to be on board, we
want them to support you, we want you to support each other.
And just think through through that before entering into that
conversation. If you're accusing them or
criticising them, their boundaries will be put in place.

(53:54):
We both just naturally are quiteright internally assessing like
we both have spent time before we even together doing this as a
conversations like this aren't unusual to us.
And so especially after years together.
But for some people, they they have not spent much time trying
to think about what's happening for them, trying to think about
what their past meant for them, trying to think about what their

(54:15):
childhood has impacted into their life.
Some people find it really hard being vulnerable in this space
and there could be so many reasons for that.
It doesn't mean they're a bad person.
It doesn't mean that they'll never learn.
It doesn't mean that they'll always be stuck in that place.
It might mean that the conversation needs to be a
little gentler, slower, a littlemore simple, start back a bit,

(54:37):
whatever it might be, it's goingto be different for everyone.
So these are just some practicalways.
And like we said at the beginning, such a unique
experience. It's not, there is no one size
fits all kind of thing for this.And maybe none of these will
resonate with you and maybe someof them will, but we're thinking
of, and we hope that this conversation will help you move
past things that have felt a bitsticky.

(54:57):
We're going to be doing more on mental load because it just
seems to be such an intense thing.
And I think it's something that's a foundation for a lot of
other areas of relationship. So watch this space.
We're going to be doing some more things.
One will be a whole episode talking to the partner that's
received this mental load conversation.
And we're just going to try our best to make it as stripped back
and as simple as it can be and started the real foundations

(55:20):
because it's such a high level thing and it's such a complex
thing. And we would love for these
conversations to help as many people as it possibly can.
So watch this space that's coming.
We'll. Share it out.
This is not unique to you. It's not.
Again, the amount of writings that we've got is, is a lot.
So please yeah, share it as muchas possible.
So thank you for listening. One small thing to just finish

(55:41):
this is you can't control your partner.
You can't control their reactions.
You can't control how they show up.
And that can be really tough. You do have control over
yourself, how you show up. You've got control over what you
take on and there's things that you can do.
You're not powerless in that space and we hope that this has
given you some suggestions on moving forward.
Right in. If you've got questions, we'd
love to chat to you guys more, but otherwise chat to you later.

(56:03):
Thanks for chatting. Thanks guys.