54: Mental Load from the Other Side: What the “Receiver” is Really Thinking | REDDIT STORIES

In this eye-opening episode of Honey, We Need to Chat, Amy and Blair dive deep into the other side of the mental load conversation, exploring what it might feel like to be the partner on the receiving end, from real life stories.

Are they really ignoring the invisible labour… or just overwhelmed in their own way?

Featuring real Reddit stories and brutally honest forum comments, this episode unpacks emotional labour, communication breakdowns, unspoken contracts, resentment, parenting stress, and gender dynamics in relationships.
Whether you're the one carrying the mental load or the one being asked to step up, this episode will stretch your understanding and help you navigate these tensions with more curiosity, compassion, and clarity.

📌 Topics Covered:
• What is mental load, really?
• Why your partner might shut down or seem defensive
• The myth of 50/50 mental labour
• “Optional martyrdom” and emotional overfunctioning
• How to build mental load literacy in your relationship

🔁 Don’t forget to listen to our original episode on Mental Load for foundational context!

➡️ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Book a Free Clarity Session with Amy! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

🎧 Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

📺 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Watch on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

📥 Get free tools + coaching support: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠honeyweneedtochat.com⁠⁠

mental load in relationships, relationship communication, marriage burnout, unspoken contracts, Reddit relationship stories, relationship podcast, emotional labor, household management, resentment in marriage, how to divide mental load, parenting dynamics, relationship growth tools, relationship podcast Australia, Honey We Need to Chat, Amy and Blair podcast, understanding your partner, curiosity in marriage, gender roles in parenting

Episode Transcript

(00:05):
Honey, we need to chat. Hey guys, welcome back to
another episode of Honey We NeedTo.
Chat. So good.
Didn't even. Plan didn't.
Even plan that my throat is verycroaky today I've had a bout of
sickness and we're about to do this episode.

(00:30):
Good one. My name is Blair.
I am one of the Co hosts here onthe need to chat.
And this is my wife Amy, the other Co host of the honey we
need to chat podcast. This is the podcast all about
the importance of communication in your relationship.
So so happy to have you here. If you were new, thank you so
much for joining us today. This is just such a great space
for you to grow with us. We're going with so many people

(00:52):
around Australia and America allover the world over the world.
Actually, we looked at the otherday, which is amazing.
Oh, just growing with a lot of other individuals and couples in
our, in our ability to communicate with each other, you
know, relationships preparing for the relationships ahead.
We're also learning a lot about ourselves.
How do we receive information sothat we can be better receiving

(01:13):
information, receiving stuff in and communication, right?
So that's what we're all about. So thank you so much for joining
and if you are a regular, we want to have you back and thank
you for joining us again. We would love to start off by
saying, look, if you get anything from this today, please
just share like subscribe. That is gonna go a huge way in
supporting this podcast, reaching more people.

(01:33):
It's gonna really just support us as well.
Just being able to have that time to invest in this space.
So all you need to do is like share and subscribe and it goes
a huge way guys. So thank you so much for just
taking 2 minutes right now. Just click those buttons.
That'd be fantastic. Why are you joining us today?
Tells us a lot about you. It tells us that you're
intentional about your relationship.

(01:53):
It tells us you're intentional about your growth in your
relationship and you also understand the importance of
communication in your relationship.
So thank you so much for joining.
Just to recap really quickly, weare currently in a series on a
mental load. We did an episode way back on
mental load, which has been our number one write in topic about
how it's just giving people language in regards to knowing

(02:16):
what they're feeling. So they're feeling something,
but they haven't had the language to put to to it to
explain it to their partner. That's just gone Been amazing
resource for people. So please go check out that
episode on mental load. Mm Hmm.
We'll link that in as. Well, yeah, they'll be in the in
the show notes. So what is mental load, you
might be asking? Well, mental load is the
invisible mental labour of managing a household and family

(02:38):
life, right. So it's the stuff that you don't
really see. And it does.
And we've definitely experiencedthat.
Yeah. And we've really had to be, have
been working through that together as a couple and for me
to better understand it and for you to be better be able to
voice it and communicate that this week's episode is going to
be a little bit different. So we've been talking about what
mental load is. We have a greater understanding

(02:59):
of communicating that what if you're the person that's been
receiving that communication about the mental load of the
relationship? What if you're that person?
So we're gonna be going through a lot of Reddit writings.
There's a lot of partners sharing their honest thoughts
about mental load. And some some of these stories
are gonna be frustrating, something gonna be surprising,
but all of them are real. And that's we love that.
Part of what we love doing on this podcast is not just having

(03:23):
a one sided perspective on things or not just having a
black and white kind of responsethat's really like cut it off,
you know, stick to your boundaries.
That all costs we really like toexplore the layers that sit
behind people's relationships and the dynamics that play out
in the relationships. And very, very few times are
things black and white, if ever,and that they're often very

(03:44):
layered, very complex and very, I guess, changeable based on
people's circumstances. And so one thing we do really
like to do on this podcast is explore what might be happening.
So today's episode is to presentthe receiver end of this
conversation and show a little bit of of what might be going on
for them, either a bit of their story or a little bit of how

(04:05):
they're perceiving this conversation about mental load
and what like kind of thoughts and philtre they've put on this
conversation. So it's a different angle.
And it's not to say none of these episodes is to say that
this side is right, this side iswrong, because that's not how
these things pan out. It's more just to help us kind
of stretch our understanding of how people navigate these things
so that we can best navigate it within our relationship in a

(04:27):
constructive way. And it's also a little bit
different today because some of these are just Reddit stories,
but some of these are comments. So more like a forum based
conversation that happened on Reddit from someone asking and
with some questions. So I have some comments back
from different people. I also want to say as well, I
really spent a lot of time trying to find Reddit stories
and I was very much trying to find a range of stories from

(04:51):
different, the different gender of partners being the receiver
of this conversation. However, I have to be really
honest, maybe one in every 20 conversations about mental load
was the man carrying the mental load.
So it was really hard to find any kind of other perspective.
Apologies ahead of time for thatbecause we obviously know that
these things are generalised andit's not always going to pan out

(05:12):
that way. We've seen that pan out in our
relationship. There have been times where one
of us has been carrying a significantly more heavy burden
of mental load than the others and that's just changed with our
circumstances and what's going on.
But that's a little node ahead of time.
That doesn't mean that this never happens the opposite way
around. It's just that these stories and
these comments came from this perspective, and I think they're

(05:33):
an important conversation for usto have and not to ignore the
fact that this is usually how itpans out in relationships.
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's something
really important as we go into these conversations, you know,
females that are listening, You know, if you're a female and
listening, you might be the one that's unaware of the mental
load that's happening within your relationship.
It it could be the case, right? Like we're seeing, you know, one
in 20 you were saying like that's a that's.

(05:54):
A that's. A guest measurement, but still,
like typically it's the other way around, but it doesn't mean
that it's not. So it's so important.
And for the men that are out there too, like that, if you're
a man and you're listening, we need to actually take that into
consideration, OK? We, when we come into this
conversation, just soften your heart a little bit here.
And because it sometimes when wecan hear those sorts of things,
we can tighten up and, and put our walls up and sort of like,

(06:17):
I'm gonna prove you wrong. Just come at it with a soft
perspective, OK? Because we're not, we're not
accusing, we're not trying to point the finger.
We're trying to strengthen our relationship.
And even if this has been something that's been
recommended for you to listen to, for you to learn more about
it, just come at it from it's not an accusation, it's an
opportunity for growth. Yeah, all right.
And and opportunity to create greater understanding in the

(06:39):
conversation you might already be having.
Yeah, on, on every side, yeah. Absolutely.
Yeah, so if you haven't heard our other episodes about mental
aid, I do recommend checking them out first before you dive
further into this one. This is going to explore it a
little bit further, and we're just gonna kind of help us
understand where some people might be coming from and what
perspectives might be playing into this.
Cool, let's dive in. Let's dive.

(07:00):
OK, so this first one was written in by a man on Reddit
asking for insight from other men on their on how they've
navigated this in their relationships.
So it's titled Men of Reddit. What are your thoughts on the
concept of mental load? I can't really gel with the
concept. While my one man household isn't
a good comparison, I still have a life I need to organise.

(07:22):
And you know what? I've got a system, a few of them
in fact. A to do list on Google Calendar,
various spreadsheets for money and fitness progress, a page on
Notion for my cleaning schedule.I don't doubt that the tasks of
child rearing and running a homeare unfairly thrust upon women
in many cases, but is this mental load really any different
to just worrying about random stuff you have to do?

(07:43):
So that was the first question which I thought it was funny
that I was written in by a man in a single household.
He just lives by himself. But good question to be
exploring well. He says one man household isn't
a good compare. Like, does that mean he's the
only man in the house? Yeah, I think he's just by
himself. I don't think he's even in a
relationship. My one man household.
I just I read it as like. As only one man.

(08:03):
Was only one man. There's multiple females.
Maybe, but I don't know. Well, we'll find out.
Words. Words Anyway, so the first
comment I wanted to highlight here is from someone titled
Apprehensive cut. You can't really choose your
name on Reddit either. So I don't think these do
anything. I don't don't ask me.
We do a lot of Reddit but I'm not a Reddit pro.
But I've never figured out how to choose our names.
So, and this is a male so he's writing in and says my wife had

(08:26):
to schedule the children's activities, doctor and dental
appointments, shopping list, getthe laundry done, cleaning,
bathing the younger children, all the things that occur on a
day to day basis for a busy household.
I was gone a lot and worked longhours.
Usually by the time I got home it was too late to handle things
like calling for a plumber, electrician, etcetera.
If something like that happened,my wife would text me and then

(08:47):
brush her hands clean of the matter.
I often don't have access to my phone for hours, nor would I be
able to handle the matter if I did.
And by the time I got home aftermidnight it would be too late.
A minor household emergency happens at noon.
I'm not due until 1:00 AM. Nothing is going to get done
until the next day or the day after if I'm lucky.
So many times I had to tell thatshe's an adult too and she's a
homeowner and that she needs to deal with this stuff so a little

(09:10):
problem doesn't become a major problem because I'm unable to
deal with it because of my absence.
For example, we had a very nice fully loaded leather interior
automobile. A neighbourhood kid threw a rock
and busted the rear windshield. There was now no rear windshield
in this car and it's pouring outside.
We have full coverage of this kind of expensive automobile.
Neighbourhood kid knocks on our door to let her know.

(09:31):
All she does is text me that someone broke a window in the
car. That's it, and she's done with
the issue. It's now my problem.
By the time I see the text, a few hours have passed.
I asked her to send me a photo. It is a photo of the entire
window. Gone.
I asked her what she did about this.
She said I texted you. Like really?
That's it? I tell her to call the police,
call the insurance company aftershe does this.

(09:51):
It's like walking a toddler. Through the process.
I find out she's set up an appointment for the next day.
The company will do an emergencymeasure and cover the window
with a clear film to keep the rain.
She never thought to ask. I tell her she needs to go
outside, get a tart from the garage and cover the car.
We have older teenage kids at home who can help, but no one
will do anything without me telling her to get it done.
I have to explain to her that the busted window is like a 200

(10:14):
to $300 problem. The water damage from pouring
rain will make it $2000. Water damage problem.
I shouldn't have to explain thisto an adult in their 50s.
So this is this guy's comment, which took a real turn from
where I thought he was heading. Same, same.
I was. I was actually had to reread
that a little bit. I was like, oh, that's.
What's different to? Where you go or where I thought
you were going. I, I see some, I see how this

(10:34):
could be frustrating for him at the same time, like I don't, but
at the same time I'm like, well,man, that's a bit, that's a bit
harsh. I, I could see if it's pouring
rain and you haven't like got a tarp and stuff like that.
Like, yeah, I, I can see the stress of that while you're at
work, like his situation, but you know, he doesn't tell us
about his situation. At work, at the time at work and
that kind of thing, yeah. Like, I get the frustration and

(10:56):
that's The thing is, you know, it's not excusing the the
tenseness of situations as well.Like this is a tense situation.
Yeah. Your car windows just being
smashed. Emotions are high in general.
And it's gonna cost a lot of money you.
Know it's gonna cost a lot of money and but to give his wife a
break here as well, though, it'slike, yeah, well, like, why do
you expect someone just to know that stuff?
You know, like, why do you expect it?

(11:17):
It's going to be a $2000 problemnow, like you, you can't expect
that. There's stuff that I know, like
there just comes more sense to me than than does to you and
vice versa. I just again, own a lot based on
our experiences and what we've been brought up with.
There's been a lot of like lawn mowing things that you just
haven't known and you didn't have those experiences growing
up. I know that because of

(11:38):
experiences. So if we'd expect that of you, I
think would be a little bit harsh for me.
I look at this and like, this isa tense situation though.
Like I wouldn't just put it downto mental, I would put it down
to the stress of the situation as well.
Yeah, I think it's interesting because there's a few layers to
this. One is he's just listed
everything she has to do and he's not very, he's not very
present. So he's listed all the things

(11:59):
that she carries mentally that he just can't do.
It's it's funny to me because he's just said, think of, look
at all these things she does, but there's this one area where
she really doesn't carry the mental she, she needs me to talk
her through it like. A toddler like so harsh, man.
Yeah, what? What I was a little bit confused
about though, like, and this is just not our area in our life

(12:21):
stage at the moment though is like there's teenagers in the
house like that almost. Like, oh, that's a whole other.
At first our experience of, of mental load and the family
mental load stuff is we, we haveyoung kids, right?
And that's like, there's so muchmore dependency on us, those
sorts of things. Yeah, I don't know that I found.
That it's a funny part. The other thing I think that's
really interesting is he's. So he's frustrated he has to

(12:42):
talk her through it and she's just.
She won't kind of explore it, which I can understand as well
because. But that's exactly what happens
in the reverse of this. That's like 90% of these
conversations are people saying I have to tell my partner what
to do. And that's what we talked about
with the grocery. It's like, yes, they'll do it,
but I have to tell them what to do.
Yeah. And so it's interesting to
observe that he's frustrated by having to talk her through it.

(13:04):
This thing that that she leaves to him.
And I think that's the same experience that that the people
on the other end that carry a lot of those day to day tasks
feel like I have to talk them through how to call the doctor
or like and get the kid in or I have to talk them through how to
feed the kids or wear their clothes are uniform because I
carry it all the time and I knowit.

(13:26):
And that's a frustrating thing to have to do for your partner.
So it's interesting to see him navigate that from the other
side. So.
This isn't us saying like, Oh no, like she like he still
doesn't have more mental load than her when that's not the the
picture that we're painting. We're just helping to understand
what mental load is. And it's like both both parties
can feel it. He's feeling it here.
What I don't appreciate is is the way that he's talking about

(13:47):
it, like the language is harsh. At the same time, you know, if
we do last episode, we spoke about the importance of reverse
roles, right? Like and, and experiencing the
other person's side for a time. OK, let's let's put a scenario
in this, in this situation here,like a hypothetical.
OK, so she's now for some reasongone away on a business trip,
right? Hypothetically, she's away on a
business trip now. Now he needs to take care of all

(14:09):
the stuff while she's gone. Like she's away now he needs to
do that. How much would he be relying on
her for all of these things thatshe's doing?
And that's the difference. I think it's providing language
to the situation and where the stress or the burnout might be
coming from. And then it's also then helping
us like, cool, all right, well, you're feeling mental load.
This is you tapping out. I'm going to take it from here

(14:30):
and we're going to work on this together.
So this isn't a reoccurring pattern or, and we can analyse
this as a once off. Is it reoccurring?
So it's just really important, Ithink to, you know, don't just
look at one situation like, or one person like you're doing the
mental load. It's like, well, no, no, no, you
both talk to each other at times, right?
And it's just giving you guys language.
Well, everyone does mental load.And the other thing that is

(14:52):
really important with this conversation is that mental
loads are never going to be 5050.
And that's not, I don't think that's ever the goal, even
though I did see lots of people talk about that on Reddit last
night. Like can it ever be 5050?
I don't think it's 5050. I think it's, it's just not
unless you have exactly the samejob and you do exactly the same
tasks in the home, like equally shared.

(15:12):
And even then it still wouldn't because people function
differently. They have different things that
they find important and things that they'll value and that kind
of thing. It's not going to be 5050.
So it's not about making it equal.
It's about being aware of what goes on.
And it's about these attitudes that we hear coming through on
both sides, on all of the sides that it's not just a matter of
like, they're never, they're, remember, they're like a toddler

(15:34):
like that. That kind of attitude only
builds to resentment. So if that's happening,
something's not sitting right. Yeah.
And that needs to be in that conversation.
And if you're listening to this as well and you you're trying in
our counts all the different times that the other person's
done mental load. Listen to our episode on.
Scorekeeping, yeah. You know, it's really important
as well. This is not, and this isn't
intended for ammo for you to fight firing each other.

(15:57):
Yeah. This is to help facilitate a
healthy conversation with greater understanding of the
situation. Yeah, and I think this is a good
example of how you can fire ammoall day long and it's not ever
going to know. There's not going to be any
conclusion. No ones going to win that
battle. There might be some really
clear, obvious examples of like you really need to pick up some
slack here, but it's you're not going to win that battle because

(16:19):
this guy's just been like, yeah,she does all of these things.
And then he's like, but this onething and he's like shot that
and that's what really weighs onhim.
But the other thing that's interesting is she doesn't know
how to do these things. She's never she doesn't do them.
She doesn't know how to do them.She has to be talked through
them like a toddler. And I think that's part of the
mental load issue is we have to really assess what have we let

(16:40):
our partners learn? And I think that might come up
in some of these in the rest of the stuff we didn't talk about
today. But like, have we let them own
these areas? Like have we let them learn
them? Have we let them own these
areas? And, and also then they have to
take up the opportunity of learning as well.
So you, you can't make someone learn something.
But you there is a little bit ofan ownership perspective of it
as well. And I think this happens a lot

(17:01):
with child related mental load because especially in the early
days, mums tend to have their heads around what's going on.
And that's even just in the structures, just that we go into
as becoming parents. It's like around.
It's the. Structure of the health system
and. Everything.
Everything, yeah. Feeds to mum and that's a big
part of what we're working on too in the health system without
with our work yeah, outside the podcast is we're working with

(17:24):
the health systems to address dads as much as mums right.
So you go through are you about to have a baby Like all the
focus will be on mum and baby. There's no inclusion of the dad.
There's no. There's like little kind of
like. Pass off comments.
Off comments that include the dad.
But it's not like an education for the dad.
It's not a focused education. Yeah, exactly.

(17:45):
So it's like we get put into this sort of like sort of back
seat, sort of a position from the get go, from the very, very
beginning. We get put into that position
and what we're we're doing, whatwe're working on, is actually
putting dad right beside mum to help with that mental load, to
help with that preparation. Not to help, to just be in that
mental load for. For dad me, I mean to help with
that preparation for dad to. Better to.

(18:06):
Know how to better support MUM. I'm a baby like, because
otherwise there's nothing there and then that goes through like
mum is the one that's typically more home than dad when the
baby's first born, right? You know, so because you, you
just don't, you got to feed, yougot to do all these things.
Typically mum isn't more home than dad in the beginning.
So now you're going to learn allthese other things involved with
that. As a mum.

(18:26):
As a mum and like my opportunities to learn that were
less because you might be getting home visits or you might
have appointments. I I'm not there, I'm working.
And even repetition. Just repetition every day.
And but the biggest thing that we did was that you, we were
intentional in that time and we were including me, you know,
like we were intentional with that teamwork.
And I just don't like it. I don't know, I just get really

(18:47):
icky about this sort of languagewhere he says it's like
explaining it to a toddler. I just I just it's.
It's really bugging me. Yeah, because it's so
patronising. It's so patronising, but it's so
like, disjointed, you know? It's so not wearing this
together. Yeah, it's so like you or you
know. What's resentment?
Yeah. And that's cool.
That's why I'm trying to highlight as well as like if we

(19:09):
don't help foster times for our partner to learn.
So like the scenario you've justplayed out, mums so often just
have that happen. Like it just kind of unfolds
naturally. It's awkward at first for lots
of women. It's really uncomfortable
learning these things, but we learn quickly because we're
doing it all the time. If we are too like possessive of
doing it for the baby, not kind of really letting the dad have

(19:32):
that space to learn, also like too controlling about how it
needs to be done, all of these things, then we're not helping
give them opportunity to learn. They also have the ownership of
stepping up in that space. But yeah, instead of being like,
they're like a toddler, why are you not looking at it like, this
is my partner that I want to getthem understanding these things.
Like when you taught me to mow the lawn, it wasn't like, this

(19:54):
is a kid that I'm teaching to mow the lawn.
It was like my partner's got no idea how to mow lawn.
But I'm going to help her learn how to mow the lawn so that when
and if she needs to, which is not very often, she can.
And it's not a new thing to her.And I think as well when, when
it comes to mental load, it's like.
Like we've said many times, it'snot just the task, it's not just
who's doing the task, it's who'scarrying the load of it.
And that's what becomes so exhausting is just carrying the

(20:17):
like, the details, the everything that goes into it,
the context, all of the understanding and information
and stuff. And so when it's this is
something that obviously, whether they've decided it
verbally and together in a nice way or it's just happened
through their like unspoken contracts that have happened in
their relationship, this is one of his tasks, yeah, that she's
now having to take on for. Him, it sounds like an unspoken

(20:38):
contract. Yeah, exactly.
Again, another episode that we've done Yeah, sounds like an
unspoken contract. The mental load has fallen onto
him and he's struggling and you can see it like in the way that
he's talking. So he, you know, that's valid.
The the struggle of mental load.Mental load is hard.
And so he's reaction is, is understandable.
But yeah, again, we're just trying to get more tools in our
toolkit rather than ammo, you know, ammo kit.

(21:01):
Yeah, but the mental side, like for her to not have that mental
side in her head, if it's his task that they've decided is his
task shouldn't be the exhaustingpart.
Like if that needs to shift, obviously he doesn't sound happy
with it. So maybe they maybe need to
shift, maybe they need to have aconversation and she needs to
carry some of that mental stuff.But for her to have her mental
stuff that she carries for her tasks and then not carry the

(21:22):
mental load of this this task, but need to step in for him
because it's a very random situation that's happened.
I think that's fine. Like I don't, I don't think that
everyone needs to carry all the mental load for every task,
especially if she's trying to relieve hers.
She's set that aside for him to deal with.
And as frustrating as that is, he is going to have to step her
through things like that. And I think the same needs to be
done in reverse. Like if you've taken on a task

(21:44):
and that's what you've agreed inyour relationship to do, it's
going to be hard for the other partner to just pick that up
without having that transition appearing in that conversation.
You will have that mental load that you need to either hand
over and teach and like help them with or recognise that in
this instance I'm carrying the mental side.
They might do the task for me. All right, so the next comment

(22:05):
is from deleted. So this person on the same
question, which was what do we think about this mental load
thing? This person wrote in and said I
posted this in the R slash parenting thread and it turned
into a very messy poo throwing fest of wives commenting massive
lists of their husband's deficiencies.
Some were probably very valid, but one common theme I saw over

(22:26):
easily 100 comments were things that really felt like optional
martyrdom. Lots of comments about
remembering what size my child wears and remembering what the
next doctor appointment is and trying not to forget to order
Valentine's Day cards for the classroom.
So many things that are easily solved by just using Google
calendars in Amazon and things that literally occur once a year

(22:47):
and it's optional but listed as though there are relentless
daily burdens. Again, some concepts are very
valid. Heard from tonnes of women who
somehow have husbands who play Xbox 8 hours a day and wait for
their dinner to be delivered to them while their wives also
carrying a screaming toddler. If that's you then not a nice
word. You're giving us all a bad name.
It seemed like a lot of the mental load they cited were

(23:09):
optional problems, like thinkingabout which coloured jacket
matches their daughter's shoes. I have a household of 6, my own
business. I do all our taxes, pay all our
bills, do all the home and vehicle maintenance and repairs,
coach youth sports and do 80% ofthe chores and schedule and
coordinate most doctor and dentist appointments.
And I'd never say the mental load is unbearable and an issue.

(23:31):
I just get stuff done as part ofthe of daily life and go about
about my day. I also don't put things on my
mental load list that I'm personally opting into like what
colour mug my son will drink outevery day or what card I should
give their third grade teacher for appreciation day.
Those things don't really matter.
So this person is saying basically that in this other
thread. They are part of a lot of the
comments they are seeing about what mental load was were

(23:53):
optional things people chose to put on themselves and we're not
actually like daily burdens thatwere fair kind of to be putting
on their partner not carrying. So like things like what?
A matching jacket to kids shoes,which honestly, I've never in my
entire life ever considered thatexcept for maybe at weddings.
Yeah, yeah, other people are much better at that stuff than I
am. Rather than the daily kind of
weight of things, which is like the chores around the house or

(24:15):
the doctor's appointments and that sort of thing.
And so they were kind of saying a majority of the mental low
conversation that from their perspective is stuff that they
don't need to take on themselves, which I think is an
interesting concept. That is, and I think that's
it's, it sounds like a few things.
First of all, it sounds like unspoken contracts, like, you
know, their wives, you mentionedwhy were riding in on on that

(24:36):
had a specific expectation of values, right?
Like so you know, the, the shoesand the jacket matching
Valentine's Day, the whatever else.
I think this is a big conversation as well because
it's wrapped. What's wrapped up with those
with those things? And do we have this expectation
that we both have the same value?
Was that actually an agreed uponvalue that we've been discussing

(24:59):
and working on? Because if we, if there are
expectations that have never been discussed, Well, that's
that's kind of unfair to put that out there or something like
you're not taking care of my mental load.
You you're putting that mental load on yourself.
Like you are putting that mentalload on yourself.
If it's an area of value to you and you do communicate that and
we are on the same page there. Sometimes it's even just helping
out the other person, even if the the values don't align.

(25:22):
Yeah, and still supporting the other person.
I think it just comes down to the conversation.
But that is a very interesting perspective though of the amount
of people writing in and puttingall these non critical things to
the list. We've spoke before about how
when these things start to build, everything gets pulled
into it. And so when we've had things
that we're wrestling with, I find myself increasingly

(25:44):
irritated by everything kind of thing until I've raised it and
we've talked about it. And then it's like every all
those little things that I thought it was like this massive
list of things just kind of intothe into the air.
I do feel like potentially this is what happens with mental load
as well for a couple of reasons.One being if those core things
in that daily date, that daily kind of burden of basically

(26:05):
survival in in a household is out of balance or isn't
understood and recognised and then made space for, then I can
understand how then everything you'd be like listing everything
like they didn't even put matching socks on or they didn't
even all these other things thatreally when it comes down to it
wouldn't be the biggest issue for you.
Yeah. But if you're feeling burnt out,
it's really easy to just get to this point where your resentment

(26:28):
is building, your scorekeeping is building, and everything is
just everything's going into that list, including things that
don't really matter. Those two things that stood out
to me with this comment, and I think again, I think it's
actually really, really interesting comment that he's
put here. Two things that sort out were,
one, we didn't see the lists that they're putting up.
So I wonder if these were some of the items that they put on
the list, but there were some core things on that list as

(26:49):
well. And like you said, if the core
things aren't getting done, thenthe resentment builds and all
these things aren't. Getting done.
Right, so they can build up. The second thing is, is I do
feel like, and it is a personality thing.
I'm not sure if it's a gender thing or a wiring thing.
I don't know what, but like you will be more way more concerned
about people's optics than I will.
So for example, they're teachers, right?

(27:10):
Like, so if our, our kids have to wear the same socks, don't
get me started on the socks, butthe socks, right, you'll be more
stressed about that. I'll be like, well, if the kids
don't get the right socks, it's and they get in trouble.
That's the kids problem. Like they would learn that
themselves, but for you, it's this whole other story.
Oh, not story, but like whole other scenario playing out that
doesn't naturally come to my mind.

(27:31):
Where I think the trap lies is for me to dismiss your thing and
then for you to put that on me. Yeah, You know, that's where the
trap lies. I think the healthier way of
that is navigating through that and having a conversation
through that. It's like, alright, cool.
Well, this is, it's not just about the socks.
It's about, alright, the kids get in trouble and you've got
this scenario in place. And you've got this scenario in
place. It builds on other stuff to

(27:53):
having that greater understanding.
And it's, you know, it can soundexhausting.
It can sound exhausting going through all these different
things that you discussed. But that's that's the point,
right? Like, as we keep growing and you
keep having these conversations,it's not that you just have a
conversation once and now your communication is perfect and
your perfect relationship, it's ongoing.
Yeah, you keep doing this stuff.But they're the two things that
stood out to me. And he mentioned as well like a

(28:14):
blue cup. Like would would my kid drink
have a blue cup? OK, It's a blue cup.
It's not a big deal. It's not a big deal about a blue
cup. But what happens if the blue cup
isn't provided? Right.
And it's like for, for you, I remember we would do this.
I can't remember what it was, but I know we've been in some,
in some scenarios where I'm like, I will stuff it like it's
fine, we've got something else, we've got another cup or

(28:35):
something. I'm just gonna stay on the cups
theme because I can't remember exactly ours, our scenario, but
and what I didn't realise though, I was like, alright, if
I didn't provide the blue cup, XYZ 1234 scenarios will follow
And that would then fall back onto your mental load.
Yeah. So it's not necessarily about
the cup. It's about all the things that
we've that are tied to that cup.And I just don't get that

(28:56):
picture. So again, that's the importance
of the conversation. And when it's tied around school
and and children, again, mums are typically more likely to
have that information because ofthat involvement.
You know, if if the dad is like he's running a business, he's
doing all these other things. That makes sense.
So all the things that it soundslike they're being enlisted
other than Valentine's Day and when we get to that in a minute

(29:17):
are kid related, a lot of kid related things.
And and that's where I think we need to have some understanding
too. Final part of the rant
Valentine's Day. Says which card should I give
their third grade teacher for appreciation day?
Yeah, I think what what turns out to me there is like, what,
Who's usually the one to go see the teacher as well.

(29:38):
Like, what is it all the other parents do?
Who's the one that typically goes to the teacher and that's
the mom in this scenario. And I, I can understand, I can
picture you in that and be like,I just, I just need to get this
card. I'm going to go see them.
Everyone else has done that. If I'm the only one that hasn't
done that, it's just asking for help I guess.
Yeah, I think there's a few things that play into this.
One, is it just because one partner says, this is my mental

(30:00):
load, this is what I'm carrying,does not mean the other partner
then has to say, Yep, I'll carryall of that mental load for you.
Like in that task or in that sphere.
And we've spoken about this withme because I do get quite
anxious and I get, I'm very perfectionistic and I, I'm sure
there are times where I project my, I'm like, absolutely,
definitely there's times where Iproject my perfectionism or my

(30:22):
like level of what I think is OKfor something on to you when
you're doing a task. But for the most part, like
especially the anxiety things, Ican't expect you to function at
the same level that my anxietieswould be functioning.
So I wouldn't expect you to overly like intrusive thoughts
of everything that could go wrong and then like try and

(30:43):
avoid them because it's not yours and it's not fair and it's
not necessary. And I don't even think it's
healthy for myself. So I wouldn't, I would not
expect you to pick up in when I'm in a nice headspace.
I don't expect you to pick up a task to that level.
But like you said before, if youjust disregarded my way of
navigating these things as if itwas silly or you refuse to kind

(31:03):
of be curious about it or refuseto like there, I have had
experience is with like almost like a refusal, not from you, a
refusal to do the thing that I'mnervous about because I'm
nervous about it. And I, and I just find that
really upsetting. I just don't think that's, I
don't think it's loving. And so I think if you refused to
be curious about what goes on for your partner, something's

(31:26):
off there. I don't think it's fair for you
to just have to take somebody's whole level of navigating these
things. And we're going to dive into
that to some extent in the next story as well, because that
doesn't mean you have to do it that way.
So some of these things don't need to be done the way that
they want them to be done. And they don't, they don't need
to be carried by the person thatdoesn't think that they're
important. But to be unwilling to

(31:47):
understand why they want it thatway is probably the part that
sits uncomfortably with me. And like you said with this,
what cup they use and what that kind of trickles onto effect.
There's, there's times where you're so right, like with a
kid, it's so different too, because they're like, yes, it
should just work nice and evenlyand beautifully.
But there are times where one thing will trigger something,

(32:07):
something else, and then it'll trigger something else.
And then as the parent that looks after them regularly, that
parent might have gotten to the point where they're like, I
cannot be bothered with this conversation anymore.
So I'm only ever going to give this kid the blue mug.
And again, doesn't mean that that other partner has to like
somehow jump on board with wherethat level of processing and
history and understanding is. But for them to not validate it

(32:29):
and not kind of see it as even if they choose not to do it when
they're the ones spending time with the kids, that's fine.
But because they then reap the consequences of it to something
make sense, but just to kind of have this refusal or like a
rebellious attitude towards it. That's what kind of doesn't feel
nice in that story. The other thing too is we've
spoken about in the last episodehow you've taken on lunches for
the kids and you have this wholelike thing worked out for them.

(32:51):
Like because you love them and you love making them feel like
you understand them. And there's little intricacies
that make it really special. And it's nice to do that for
people that you love. It's nice to not just get the
bare minimum done and to actually be like, I know that
they like this, so I'm going to love on them and do this where I
can, where it's reasonable. But it's also like if I step in

(33:12):
and do lunches, I don't know allyour intricacies and you
wouldn't expect me to just know that because I haven't been
doing them that often. So you could either tell me and
I can do that or I'm just going to do lunches the way that I
know how to do lunches. And I think that's where the
mismatch would come in is if youare expecting me to just know
that stuff. Yeah, absolutely.
It wouldn't be nice. You were asking me the other day
like, oh, because I think I was getting, I was getting behind on

(33:33):
getting ready for the day and the other weekend and you asked
like, oh, do you want me to do lunches?
I'm like, you can do it togetherbecause it's, it's like it's
been involved and and it was like, because I knew I couldn't
just I couldn't, you couldn't dowhat I do because you just don't
know. You haven't been.
Doing it and that that process of us doing it to you, that
spent up time and it was good. It was like we still were able
to provide the kids what they usually have and whatever else

(33:55):
and it was good. It was a good practise.
And I don't know, if I took on lunches now, I don't think I
would necessarily navigate the same way.
Like I don't think I would learnit the same way.
I learned it differently. It's just really, it's just
different. Yeah, it's because something
that we've, because I remember when we were dating 'cause we're
doing that internship together and we'll, we're working on the

(34:16):
same youth programme together. And it was interesting because I
was getting frustrated that you weren't operating the same way
that I operate, you know, And what we came to realise overtime
though, is he still did a reallygood job.
Like, it still came out really, really good, but it was
different. And it wasn't just, it wasn't a
matter that I valued the, the, the, the programme more or

(34:37):
anything else like that. It's just we operated different
and your value, your, your appreciation for the youth and,
and the programme was great. But you, your section that you
would prioritise was over a different section to me, right?
And that was great. That was fine.
There was nothing wrong with that.
But I had this expectation that you should have the same values
as mine. You, you'd like the same thing

(34:58):
as me and you wanted to show it the same way as me.
And that was something that we had to learn early on.
It's different. Your appreciation is, is still
the same. Your love for them was still the
same, but you the way that you showed that is.
Different. And and that's good, fine,
there's nothing wrong with that and I had to get over it.
Yeah, it's the same as with our work.
So like I, when I set up my website, when I set up any of

(35:21):
our websites or social media, I get like hyperfixated on it and
I love doing it for hours and hours and just getting it
looking nice And like I'll spendmore time on that than I will on
strategy or like whatever flip side for you, like you are like
stop doing that. Cannot spend more than 10
minutes on that. And from my perspective, I'm
like, it'll look so messy, but then you'll have a strategy

(35:41):
that'll get us going forward. And then I won't have any
strategy. I was like, well, it's got a
really good website. And so it's the same sort of
thing. I will never function like you
and you'll never function like me.
Doesn't mean that right anyway is right or wrong.
Does mean that both ways will get different results in some
ways. But also you're tackling the
same topic, just from different perspectives.
And it's the same thing with parenting.

(36:02):
It's the same thing with household chores.
It's the same thing with values.You're not going to get it the
exact same way and it's going toplay out.
You have to have your the freedom to be yourself in that
thing. If you're refusing to enter into
that space, that's different. If it's becoming a resentment
thing, that's unhealthy as well.But I think when you can have an
appreciation for how you function differently, it's
really helpful. Yeah, absolutely.

(36:22):
If you're in this scenario and you're seeing this like list of
mental load that's building and building, but you're like, it's
just not valid. The best thing, which we say all
the time is just to have curiosity with each other
instead of no, I'm not going to care about what shoes I put with
the jacket. Like I'm not going to do that.
Instead of just having that hardline thing be like, why do
you mind? Why is it so important to you

(36:42):
that the right jacket goes with the right shoes for our three
year old? And having that conversation
doesn't mean you take it on, butit means you understand each
other better. Yeah.
And if that gets brought up to you, I think the answer should
be better than because it looks good.
You know, you need to have like,be willing to go on that journey
with the person that's asked youas well, right?
Like, so it's a commitment from both sides, an attitude of

(37:04):
curiosity from one side to understand why you like the
jacket with the blue shoes, but then also that ability to be
able to commit to the other person.
Like, yeah, cool. All right.
Well, this obviously isn't in your wheelhouse or your focus.
So let me help you understand myfocus and my value.
And that you're not going to. You're free to be worried about
what you're worried about. Yeah.
But when you're looking at mental age, you need to be fair

(37:27):
in recognising not everything that feels like and not
everything that takes up space in your head is going to be put
on you by the other person or it's going to be made that way
because the other person's not carrying that.
Some of it is just stuff that you value and stuff that you
will, you're opting into, like you said, in this optional
martyrdom anyway. So yeah, that's an interesting
perspective and I think important when you're navigating

(37:49):
these conversations. Last story, this is a different
story, different thread. This is called hot take,
carrying the mental load. I'm not really sure where to put
this as it's more of an event than anything else, but I'm
really sick and tired of hearingwomen complain about men not
carrying the mental load when they are completely and totally
unwilling to give them the spaceto do so.
If you want your partner to takeon the mental load, that means

(38:10):
being willing to let go of it yourself.
I'm not going to care for the kids exactly how you would, and
that's OK. I might do breakfast later, eat
lunch out, push their naps earlier later, have a more
flexible schedule, etcetera. Instead it seems like women
spend their time chasing their partners around when they've
taken the lead, supervising everything they do with the kids
and trying to correct them anytime they don't do something

(38:31):
exactly as they would. Then later they're complaining
about how they would never get get a break from the mental
load. Even more frustrating if you
point this out, the response is often basically that they won't
survive because the husband is so incapable.
That is far from the truth and most dads I know have easily
managed when their wife has beenout of town.
Did a bath get skipped here and there?
Sure, but everyone is happy, healthy and having a good time.

(38:52):
So this is what we were talking about a little bit.
That their people need to be able to learn and they need to
be able to own the task within their what they deem is
appropriate and without learning.
I mean, this is such a basic statement without learning and
you're never going to learn and you're never going to own it.
He pointed out in here that might do breakfast later, eat,
eat lunch out, push their naps earlier or later and have a more

(39:13):
flexible schedule. I understand when you have
figured out, like we just said in the previous story, what
works for your kids to not lose their mind.
So like pushing naps. Pushing naps can be not good.
Yeah, it can be exactly what we said before.
What's the on flow effect of that decision you've made,
right. And who's the main person with
the kids. So for you to be like, I'm going

(39:34):
to do it differently, It's far fine.
And then push out their naps andwhatever else.
And then the like that's on the Sunday and then on the Monday
you go to work and then the kidsall like ready because you push
out a nap on the day before. It's just you're putting it on
the person. So you've got to be able to,
it's a, it's a two way thing. Like, you know, yes, you, you
need to give the dad the space to be able to learn and to grow.

(39:54):
And I mean the space, but like do that together.
But at the same time, guys like,yeah, you gotta think through
the ongoing effects. And stuff like that.
Yeah. But then on the flip side of
that, again, is that until the parent that's learning has
experienced why, what the consequences are for those
things like pushing a nap or having breakfast too late or
whatever it is, Until they've kind of pushed through and been

(40:16):
like, oh, that's why. Then it's only gonna ever be the
one partner saying, no, don't dothat.
Yeah. And they'll be like, whatever,
I'm just doing what you've been telling me.
So there is still benefit in in just letting them learn.
Like if, if it's there, if you've given it to them and
they're trying to take it, just letting them do it that way, as
as hard as that might be, helps because it's just gonna mean

(40:36):
that later down the track they've got a better
understanding of that. Yeah, you need to be very
careful in this scenario too, right?
So he's saying that it's not himand his partner that are
experiencing this and he's, he'sjust saying that there are
people like this. So OK, so hypothetically you're
in a situation, the situation that comes to my mind is a
hypothetical one, but a real 1 is mum might be chasing dads

(40:57):
around and be like, you can't dothat, you can't do that.
I've got to like micromanage andI've got to do this sort of
stuff. How old's the baby, right?
How old's the kid in this scenario?
If it's a baby, his mum suffering from post Natal
depression. Just want to put that out there.
The other thing too, if it's if the man is in the space too, is
he suffering from post Natal depression?
It's a real thing to be aware of.
Post Natal depression aside, where is their mental, you know,

(41:19):
I mean like so to look at the action alone is not going to be
an accurate representation of what the There's only the full
picture of what's going on. You need to have that attitude
of curiosity. Look beyond the action and dig
deeper into the scenario. What's going on that person in
general in life? Like how is that person going in
general, not just a situation? Because I think we can hold too

(41:42):
many situations like this at face value of like, oh, I'm
trying to step up, but you know,you won't let me.
And it's, you know, you're doingthis action and whatever else.
And it's like, but why? But why?
But why? Amy used to run this session.
It was called the five why's. It was the most frustrating and
annoying exercise, but it was sorich, right?

(42:03):
It was so powerful. And essentially what it was
would be asking the question like, why are you?
Why are you running this youth programme, right?
So you ask that simple question,why are you asking that youth
programme? They write down their answer and
then you ask the question, why? Why did you give that answer?
And then they write down the answer of that why?
And you were five times just extremely infuriated.
But this is a this is a good exercise to do, especially if

(42:26):
you're struggling to, to verbalise your situation or
verbalise your value or verbalise your anxiety around
you know, your partner taking onthe kids or whatever else,
because it helps you just to stop and just to really, really
reflect and get down to the the nitty gritty of of the
situation. Don't look at the situation as
face value. Dig deeper and do it in a

(42:48):
supporting way, not as a expectation or as your failing
way. Yeah.
If we want our partners and our relationship to thrive and grow
and become stronger and strongerdown the track, we need to have
that as a value when we're navigating these things,
regardless of what side or perspective of any of these
topics we're coming from, wanting the best for our partner

(43:09):
and wanting our relationship to be stronger and having curiosity
are all like things that will help you succeed regardless.
If those are philtres you've got, those things will help you
move forward. Regardless of what you're
navigating, you want your partner to pick up more slack in
terms of some of the mental loadthat you're carrying.
You need to let them learn. If you're finding your partner's

(43:32):
repeating this conversation about how they've got mental
load, mental load, mental load, you need to be curious about
what's going on for them. And it's not about one person
being slapped on the hand and the other person not.
And I think that's where these conversations kind of lose focus
Sometimes. It can become this echo chamber,
especially on threads like this,where it's like everyone's just
listing all the things that their partner does horribly on
their pick up and they're just like dropped all these things

(43:54):
and all these things have to carry for them.
And you become like this frenzied echo Chamber of
agreeing with each other and egging each other on.
But the reality is we want our relationships to be stronger, we
want to be happier together, we want to be a better team
together. We want the best for each other.
And we really should want our partner to succeed at being the

(44:14):
best partner they can be as wellas us succeed at being the best
partner we can be. So if that's our goal, then
there's stuff that needs to shift in attitude and stuff that
needs to shift in how you communicate about these things.
And hopefully some of these stories have given a little bit
of perspective on how people that are receiving this
conversation, mental load might be navigating them or what kind

(44:34):
of things might be going throughtheir head when they're hearing
these things from their partnersor they're hearing things from
the trends going around being talked about online and that
kind of thing. This might be some of their
concerns. So hopefully it's helped stretch
a little bit of that understanding of what might be
going on. And also given a bit of a
perspective of what might be being balanced on both sides.
We're going to continue talking about mental load over the next

(44:56):
few weeks and we're hoping to bring some different
perspectives like this to just kind of get a bigger picture of
what's going on because it's notit's not easy, simple, clear cut
kind of thing. It's it's a complicated process
that you can see progress in 100%.
You can see progress. So thanks for being with us
today, guys. Thanks guys.
Reddit stories, a good one meantto load Reddit stories.

(45:17):
We'll chat to you guys soon. Good.
Job.