March 13, 2025 • 69 mins
In this episode of Hope Unlocked, Kristin Kurtz is joined by Pat Kunkel, a passionate advocate for prayer and youth ministry. Pat shares his personal testimony of growing up in a devout Catholic home, his journey through seminary, and how a pivotal moment led him to leave teaching and launch a ministry focused on prayer, encouragement, and worship. Pat shares the mission behind his ministry, PEW35, which focuses on building confidence in prayer among middle and high school students. The ministry's signature Elevate events immerse students in prayer, offering them the opportunity to learn by doing. Pat emphasizes the importance of creating space for prayer rather than just teaching about it. Through his story, Pat inspires listeners to follow God's call, no matter where it leads, and to trust in His guidance. This episode is a powerful reminder that our actions, no matter how small, can have an eternal impact.
Pat's contact info:
Email - pat@pew35.orgÂ
Website - pew35.org
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:16):
Welcome to the Hope Unlocked podcast.
I'm your host, kristen Kurtz,and I'm also the founder of New
Wings Coaching.
I help and empower wild-heartedand adventurous women of faith
feeling caged and stuck, unlocktheir true purpose and potential
, break free from limitationsand thrive with confidence,
courage and hope.
If you're curious to learn moreabout coaching with me, head to
newwingscoachingnet and be sureto explore the show notes for
(00:38):
ways to connect with me further.
Get ready to dive in as weuncover empowering keys and
insights in this episode.
So tune in and let's unlockhope together.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Welcome to the Hope Unlocked podcast.
I'm Kristen Kurtz, your host.
I pray this episode is like aholy IV of hope for your soul.
Please help me.
Welcome Pat Kunkel to the show.
I'm very excited to have himhere today.
I feel like this is along-awaited interview.
I'm very excited to have himhere today.
I feel like this is along-awaited interview.
We actually met at a localgathering called Prayer Hub, led
by a mutual friend, marieLarson, and I was just really
(01:18):
awestruck by the things that hewas sharing the ministry that
he's part of, and I reallywanted to highlight both his
story and the ministry.
So, pat, would you be open tosharing a little bit about
yourself?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Yeah, kristen, I'm just so glad to be here and you
know, like we talked about alittle earlier on, I just, I
just love to share the visionthat God has given us for the
ministry.
And I know there's a power inour personal stories, and so I
look forward to sharing both inour personal stories, and so I
look forward to sharing both.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yes, Well, where do you want to start?
Do you want to start from thebeginning?
You know?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
you can start anywhere in life.
Yeah, I think that makes sense.
I'll start at the beginning andshare my personal testimony and
then that will lead into it,weaves into the, the ministry,
the launch of the ministry andwhat's happening now, and so,
yeah, I'll just dive in.
So I'm just, I'm amazinglythankful.
I grew up in a in a home wheremy father was a devout catholic
(02:22):
the day he died and he reallyinstilled in me an appreciation
for the value behind the thingsthat we do around our faith
Faith, practices, right, valuefor him.
But if I were to summarize itin one phrase, I guess I'd say
(02:45):
he taught me that there's valueto the practice of the faith if
we value the practice, and sojust really teaching me to
understand why we do the thingsthat we do, no matter what the
practice is right.
We do the things that we do nomatter what the practice is
(03:07):
right, and that there's beautyin that when we do those things
to honor God right or to helpourselves grow in our
relationship with Christ.
I knew, even as a young guy Iguess maybe junior high age, I
(03:32):
think when I really became awarethat that kind of upbringing
was different from those of myclassmates or those people my
age, even, I would say, mostpeople within the body that I
was engaged in at that time inhow my dad taught me to seek
understanding Right and toreally dig in.
And my father was in the Word,which was also unusual among
those in our church, but hespent a lot of time reading both
(03:54):
the Bible and then he read alot of what I'd call second
source material.
Also, you know other otherstories about faith by Christian
authors and again that modelingreally impacted me and really,
as a result, when I was injunior high, I started reading
(04:16):
scripture and even for my dad Iwouldn't say that I was
discipled, certainly not in anyformal sense.
I mean, he witnessed, hedemonstrated faith constantly,
right, but he didn't give me anyguidance on how to approach
reading scripture, how to study.
I didn't really get any of thatin those years, but we know the
(04:44):
word penetrates us, and so Istarted reading and because I
didn't know better, I started atpage one and I read until I got
to the end of the book and whenI got to the end of Revelation
I put my bookmark back atGenesis and I started over.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
How old were you when you read through the Bible?
Speaker 3 (05:02):
I was junior high, you know.
So, whatever that is, I suppose11, 12, when I first started, I
would say, faithfully reading,and you know, I don't think I
understood a lot, I probablystill don't, but again, the word
penetrates us and, man, I don'tknow how to say it other than,
(05:26):
as a result, I really believe inlarge part of reading the word,
you know God.
Just, he took over my heart.
You know, I fell in love withJesus because of his word and so
, of course, being a good youngCatholic man who was in love
(05:49):
with Jesus, the answer was, ofcourse, to go to seminary.
That's what I thought, and so,right out of high school, I did
enter Catholic seminary.
And a second, I would sayreally beautiful experience for
me, like the experience I hadgrowing up being under my dad's
(06:12):
tutelage, so to speak.
When I got to seminary, I'd onlybeen there a few months when
the priest in charge got up infront of us seminarians and he
said the words I'll never forget.
And that is he said seminarians.
And he, he said the words I'llnever forget.
And that is he said you know,if you're here to become a
priest, you're here for thewrong reason.
And he went to the board wentto the.
(06:34):
You know it was a chalkboardback in those days for the
younger viewers that's.
Uh, that was the predecessor ofthe white board, or what is now
called the smart board.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
I'm looking up missionary everybody if you want
to hear more about thechalkboard.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Right, yeah, he goes to the chalkboard and he writes
down vocation and then underthat he writes vocal and he
underlines it.
You know, to call a vocation, acalling, and he turns around to
us and he says you know, myheart and my prayer for you is
that you'll be a group of men, acommunity, who will pray and
(07:08):
encourage each other to discernGod's will in your life.
Don't focus on becoming apriest.
Focus on what it is that God'scalling you to.
That's incredible, right, it'sincredible, right, it's amazing.
I so believe, kristen.
You know, if this were theexperience in seminary,
(07:29):
regardless of denomination,right?
If this were the seminaryexperience everywhere, shouldn't
every believer?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
attend the seminary.
Wow, wow.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Yeah, yeah.
So I was there a year and ahalf.
I was in prayer and discernmentand I really was, and I know I
had many other guys in thatcommunity praying for me and
certainly those in leadership.
And then I went, when I madethe decision, I went to father
(08:04):
and I said you know I'm going tobe leaving and here's why.
And he did like he for me,excuse me, he did for me what he
did for every other man whomade a decision through
discernment.
And what he did is he got upthat Saturday night.
We always had a big dinnertogether Saturday nights at
seminary.
We always had a big dinnertogether Saturday nights at
(08:25):
seminary.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
And he got up and he said we're going to celebrate
tonight Because Pat Kunkel hasdiscerned his vocation.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
God's called him to be a school teacher and I walked
that up for 25 years.
And what an amazing blessing towalk through life knowing my
purpose and understanding whatGod had called me to do.
Yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Initially, when you went into seminary, did you have
the notion that you were goingto seminary to be a priest?
Was that?
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
To be a priest, was that?
Oh yeah, absolutely.
When I entered, I assumed youknow that, really, that that's
why I had arrived and, you know,not a bad motivation.
I certainly wouldn't want to inany way, you know, misrepresent
that.
But what I found out is isreally that through, through
(09:23):
this prayer and discernment, Ifound out that that calling
really was that I wanted to knowmore about him, I wanted to be
discipled, I wanted to learnright, and those things were not
happening in the body that Iwas engaged in at the time.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
So that was instrumental for that word about
vocation and that chalkboardmoment like change the
trajectory of your life.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
There's no question, it was exactly that, a
life-changing moment.
And I was blessed in many otherways in that experience, many
other ways in that experienceSeeing my first healing miracle
within that body and laying onof hands and calling out for
healing.
It was really a beautifulexperience.
(10:16):
And then again, the you knowwhere I left off was the
launching point, then, right ofstepping in now to teaching.
Understand that that's wheregod had called me and that, well
, you know, many of us, right,we have jobs and we have
vocations.
They're not necessarily thesame um, which is fine of mine,
(10:39):
um, overlapped right.
And so 25 years of teaching, Ithink that I, you know, I was a
good teacher.
Most of the time I waseffective.
Right, there were certainlytimes that I was ineffective and
in 25 years, I really believe Ihad two or three moments of
brilliance, but yeah, but what Iknow for sure is God was
(11:03):
effective through me because Iwas doing what he called me to
teach Excuse me what he calledme to do.
And he really blessed me inthat and even in my first
teaching position, seeingstudents coming into
relationship with families at aspiritual level, which, of
(11:24):
course, years ago was, you know,quite a bit easier, I would say
, than today.
Things were more open, I guessI would say, but even to the
last day that I taught justreally beautiful connections
with students and families, um,in a spiritual way.
So I'll stop there.
(11:45):
That's a big piece of it.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
So, as you're, were you in public school.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yes, yeah, yeah.
I taught, yeah, all my years inpublic school.
I was at, I guess, threedifferent districts in those
years, but yeah, all publicschool.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Okay, so I don't know about the, the listeners, but
I'm a very curious person.
These brilliant moments, you'vegot to tell us at least one of
them yeah, yeah, well, where tostart?
Speaker 3 (12:20):
um, well, there was in in my first position.
You know what can I say?
I was a young educator and Iwas prideful and arrogant and I
thought I knew everything right.
I tried to emulate the personthat I did my student teaching
(12:45):
under, and he rolled in a lotdifferent way than I did.
I'm really very laid back andeasygoing, and he was very much
more a commander, and I don'tmean that in any disrespectful
way, he was just much more rigid, I would say, and I tried to
mimic that.
But there was this mom.
I had one of her daughters in myprogram at the time I taught
(13:09):
middle school band, and so shewas in my band, and this mom
just had a way of comingalongside me and I absolutely
know this was God's intervention, because I know she's a woman
(13:30):
of God, her family, they'repeople of God.
She had this way of comingalongside of me, though and
really coaching me, really likeI was her own son.
You know, hey, mr Kunkel, youknow she'd always call me Mr
Kunkel, never Pat.
Hey, mr Kunkel, you know nicejob with the concert, or you
know nice job with this or that.
And you know nice job with theconcert or you know, nice job
with this or that, and you knowI was thinking, and then she
would share some things thatwould help me to see the great
(13:53):
opportunity that I had before meto improve my skills, you know,
and a lot of it again, to justbe humble and to seek help in
the places where I didn'tunderstand, and that just led to
a long relationship, a faithrelationship with her and her
family.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
So, yeah, Amazing and it and it goes back to it's
even something that I talk abouta lot Like.
We really need people in ourcorner, right, and I can imagine
just the brevity of how youwere in so many kids' corners
throughout all of those years.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah, you know I just talked about humility and so,
with great humility, I say Ireally believe that God anointed
me with an ability to encourage, well, to really.
You know it's almost a dirtyword to say in the public school
, but I'll say it here that heanointed me to love children.
(15:00):
Well, and you know no one candeny love children.
Well, and you know no one candeny love.
Everybody understands what.
Everybody understands that,even if they can't identify what
it is or who.
He is right, kristen.
I mean like hope.
We know who hope is and eventhough the unbeliever wouldn't
(15:21):
name him as Jesus Christ, theycan't deny him.
Everybody understands whenwe're giving people hope, that
that's what it is.
So, yeah, it was a realblessing to have those years
with students.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Do you have any testimonies or stories, as you
were a teacher, like impactingone of your students or more?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
I think, like most teachers I would say, especially
, I guess I would say, arethings that I've heard a decade
or two past the time that I wasactually working with those
(16:15):
students, and so now a lot of 20, 30-year-old students who have
reached out and reconnected withme, and I think you know
there's a lot of powerfulstories, but by far I believe
the most impactful story is thestory that leads to the ministry
(16:37):
, and so I'll just jump intothat if I could.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yeah, yeah.
So about a decade back now, Ithink it was 10, 11 years ago um
, I got this group of studentsin my band program, a group of
sixth graders, and thisparticular group I also
supervised at lunch and recess.
And, and you know, if you everwant to really see how kids
(17:07):
behave, don't go to theclassroom, just follow them out
to recess, because that's whereyou see how they really live,
you know.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yeah, so I have this group of kids at recess and I
heard the language that theyused and I saw how they behaved
and, in particular, I saw howthey treated other kids and, to
cut to the chase, it made mewant to quit teaching.
(17:38):
Yeah, and again, I had and itwasn't this whole group actually
, I could limit it to fourstudents in this entire group.
You know probably, well,definitely over 100 kids in the
band.
There's only four kids.
But again, just veryconsistently, I heard their
(18:00):
language, I saw their behavior,I saw how they treated other
kids and it made me want to quitteaching and I struggled with
that for a year and a half andmy prayer partner at the time,
my accountability partner, is ateacher in a nearby town and I
told Jerry many times I'm justlike I just can't, I can't
(18:21):
figure this out, because I knewGod had called me to teach and
it just felt so compelled toleave.
I just knew I was supposed toleave and my wife and I talked
about it many times and again,the short story is, a year and a
half later I did leave and Ileft in large part and I'll just
(18:47):
hit it one more time because ofthe language because of the
behavior of these four studentsand, in particular, how I saw
them treat others.
And now this is where we haveto ask the listeners to really
check in here.
I left because I wanted to be alot more like those four
students.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
You want to impact more of those students.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
No, I wanted my language and my behavior and how
I treated people to align withthe language and the behavior
and how I saw these four treatothers.
Because what I saw is four kidswho lived on mission for Christ
, and they weren't carryingtheir Bibles into school, they
weren't proselytizing out on theplayground.
It was none of those things,you know, that we often think of
(19:30):
as the ways that we witnessRight.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
And.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
I saw what I observed was the silliest things.
Like we'd be out on theplayground and kids at the
school played a game called foursquare, you know, out there on
the playground and, um, that kidwould come through the doors
out onto the playground, thatkid being the one who was never
(19:54):
going to get chosen to be partof it.
They didn't wait for him to getrejected, they went to him and
they brought him into theirgroup.
And you know, gosh, what can Isay?
Again, the very simplest thingthat God used to convict me over
(20:16):
and over and over again ofright, this is how I've called
you to live, to simply lovepeople.
Well, and it just it broke myheart, kristen.
It just it was.
And I don't mean that I wasliving poorly or not living on
mission, I was but it reallyconvicted me to move to a
(20:39):
platform beyond public educationwhere I had more freedom in
talking about Jesus, about, youknow, preaching, right, truly
evangelizing, etc.
But it was really, I mean, itwas God, but it was God through
four little 10-year-olds, theimpact that God will choose to
(21:01):
have through us if we allow himto, no matter our age or our
giftings or any skill sets thatwe think we do or don't have.
It changed my life.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
So those four kids were like the catalyst for you
to launch into more in your life.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Yeah, yeah, actually it was.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Love your was love your too.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Thank you for being vulnerable right yeah, yeah, it
was interesting that their wholesixth grade year went by and I
was struggling with this andpraying with my wife and with my
accountability partner, andthen that over the summer I
actually did a fair amount ofresearch around.
You know where exactly are thelegal lines in terms of
(21:51):
spiritual conversation in theclassroom, I guess for lack of
better way of saying it becausewhat I didn't want to do is
cross that line, I wanted to bea respecter of the law.
You know in how I did that, um.
But then, in the fall of theirseventh grade year, it was
probably october, late october Ithink, um, one of them came
(22:12):
into my office.
She came in with a friend ofhers and you know, mr kunkle, my
grandpa is sick, he's in thehospital.
Will you pray for him?
Um, and I knew the student, Iknew the parents and so I knew
their people, their Christiansand so that.
But I did pray and I went homeand I told my wife, you know, I
(22:34):
think you know God's beennudging me for a year and a half
and today he hit me with thetwo by four because it was like
hello.
Can I make this any moreobvious to you that it's time to
move on, and that was reallydecision-making time for us that
, yep, we need to do this.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
So how old were you at this time, if you don't mind
me asking when you were gettingthe impression to leave?
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Yeah, so I would have been 40, 40.
Yep 4647 somewhere in there.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Okay, Now you know most don't retire early, Right?
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Tell us more about that.
Like, what is it?
What was that like for you?
Like, bring us in a little bitdeeper what that process was
like, because, um, I mean, Iknow I went through that journey
a few years ago, but if youcould share a little bit more of
what that process was like foryou, because it it does feel
like taking a huge leap of faith, right.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Yeah, yeah, it was beautiful and it was broken at
the same time.
And the beautiful part was mywife was in such support of me
and she, she's got a faith likewow, I'm just so blessed in my
wife and the relationship shehas with Christ.
(24:01):
And so we had, you know, by thetime the student approached me
for prayer, we really, I think,had I don't know if we were at
that conclusion, because that'snot fair to say we weren't but
you know, we'd had a lot ofdiscussion, a lot of prayer
around it, and so in that momentthen it wasn't so difficult to
(24:23):
decide, said I, did.
We decided that what we would dois, you know, the thing about
teaching that you said is it'shard to leave from a financial
standpoint, right, to walk away,um, but you know, which is
probably not uncommon in a lotof industries, you leave some
things behind, but, um, but theother piece was to leave in the
(24:47):
middle of the year and that justreally didn't feel right and I
didn't want to do that.
And so we actually planned forme to leave in the spring, after
the school year ended.
That was our plan and as Godwould work it and only God he
provided an opportunity at thesemester break, or, you know, in
(25:09):
the spring, to leave earlier,which made it, yeah, what it was
, I guess.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Yeah.
So what was it like on the lastday?
Remember what that was?
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Did you say on the off day.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
On your last day.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Oh, on my last day.
Yeah, it was wild, that's whatit was.
Yeah, a couple weeks before Ileft, actually, I went in to
each of my bands.
I had, I don't know, maybe fouror five different groups at
(25:54):
that time, right, and I reallydon't know what motivated me
other than the obvious God.
But what I did is I took in apicture of my family and I put
it up on the screen.
You know, I used a projectorwhen I taught, right, and so
when my students came in, maybeit was at the end of rehearsal I
(26:14):
don't really remember, but Ishared with them this photo and
I said, hey, you guys probablyrecognize these people because I
had photos around in my officeand stuff, right, and I talked
about family.
I said, you'll, you recognizemy family.
You know, this is a group ofpeople that I really love and
respect.
And then what I did is Ibrought up the seating chart,
(26:36):
which was the best photos that Ihad of my students.
I said I just want to show youanother group of people that I
really love and respect.
I brought up their photos and Ijust reminded them of that in
(27:01):
part, anyway, you know, in termsof the timing, knowing to be
able to go the extra mile, Iguess, in terms of loving, them.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Well, um was good.
Yeah, so you, you're, you'reset to leave.
Your last day happens um, what,like?
What did you have on thehorizon?
Did you know what was coming atthat point?
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Yeah, yeah.
So really what I knew was thatGod was calling me to launch
this ministry.
I knew that it was going to bearound prayer and youth and
really I would say that wasabout it.
And what I did was, forprobably eight weeks I think it
was eight, maybe 10 weeks it waskind of like going back to
(27:44):
seminary.
I just spent my days in prayerand in discernment and it wasn't
, you know, for clarity, Iwasn't making a big effort to
pray or discern.
That's just where God put me.
He just put me in this place ofspending just a ton of time
(28:05):
with him praying and discerningabout, okay, prayer and youth.
But what is this to look like?
And I believe that you know Godspeaks to us all the time.
He's always talking to us.
Sometimes we choose to listenand sometimes we have ears to
hear Right.
And also, or in particular, Iguess I would say, in dreams and
(28:30):
I had a few years prior to thismy wife had finally convinced
me, after much effort on herpart.
She had convinced me to journal,and so I'd been journaling
pretty faithfully for a coupleof years at that point and I
journaled in those.
Well, it was the first sixweeks that I was off of school I
(28:53):
journaled 13 different times,that I woke up with these dreams
that were so clear and sodirect, even things around the
development of the phone app,technical terms that I didn't
even know I thought they werelike you know, there were words
that I understood to be.
(29:14):
You know, I understood the wordlike I don't guitar, right, and
so I wake up with guitar in myhead, except there's a technical
implication to that particularword that I don't understand.
So then I wound up sharing thisstory, right, this dream, with
the techno geeks and they'relike dude, are you kidding me?
You heard that.
(29:34):
And then they told me thetechnical implication of it and
uh, yeah, so there's just a lotof that during that time.
Um, yeah, it's incredible.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
So you're in this, in this what you said about six,
eight week time frame.
You're really pressing in andbeing still and dreams and
getting visions right, right, so, um, it's so beautiful that
you're along the way as wellright, um, what, what was next?
(30:09):
What, what came?
Were you getting print then inyour dreams and in your
journaling time and prayer?
Speaker 3 (30:17):
yeah, yeah.
So it's given a lot of theparts and pieces, I guess I
would say for what it was tolook like.
And look like maybe isn't theright phraseology, maybe a
better way of saying it was thecore vision of q35 ministry.
And I say that because I justthink it's.
(30:39):
It's so very easy in ourhumanness right To start doing
the good things and all kinds ofgood things and lose sight of
what it is that God's called usto do and I'm not saying, I'm an
expert at this but having had areally beautiful seminary
experience that taught me,really trained me well on how to
(31:01):
focus in prayer and discernment, again, that process over that
period of time of praying anddiscerning, really led to giving
me really sharp clarity on thethings you know.
I'd call it the things of Godversus the good things right,
all the other things that 235can and will do someday but
(31:25):
which are not God given right.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
So he gave the name away 235.
Tell us, tell us more about itaway.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
I-35, tell us, tell us more about it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So really it comes from prayer,encouragement and worship.
And then our initial launch wasalong the I-35 corridor, you
know, which is maybe a littlecorny, right, I mean, hey, I'm
(32:00):
not God, go ask him, don't blameme.
But you know, it's interestingbecause it was so obvious to me
through the, you know, throughRevelation, that's what it was
to be.
And then, as I started thinkingabout it, I had lived 20 years
in Albert Lee, you know, righton the south border of Minnesota
, on I-35.
I taught for a decade inFaribault, a little further
(32:23):
north on I-35.
And I live in Owatonna, whichis in between those two, right
on I-35.
And so it's just a naturalplace to launch out and get our
start there and the prayer,encouragement, worship part, as
(32:43):
we've done, our Elevate events,our Day of Prayer we've really
seen that come to fruition inthose events.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
So, yeah, I love that you said I just want to capture
this because as a you know, asa fellow, you know, I'm a
business owner and I I look tohim for names and, um, you know
different things that a businessowner would need.
I look to him for those answers.
So often if somebody questionsit, I'll say, well, just go ask
(33:16):
God.
Then he gave me that.
So I love that you really areleaning into him for those
answers.
You know, it's reallyinteresting.
As you were talking about 35, Iwas just getting a vision of 35
just isn't just in Minnesota,it goes all the way to the
bottom of the US right.
(33:37):
Yeah, that's right.
Is there some?
Speaker 3 (33:44):
excitement today.
Yeah well, I'm really excited.
So we've been a southernMinnesota minister I mean,
that's where we've been for nineyears but I'm super excited as
we have spent the last 18 to 20months really reorganizing,
restructuring, building outsupport, bringing on new team
(34:07):
members, defining roles etcetera, all this stuff to launch
more broadly.
And again, for clarity, I wantto be really careful that and
really direct and saying we donot want to be big or the next
big thing.
What we want to do is take whatGod has used so effectively in
southern Minnesota and give itaway nationwide.
(34:30):
You know, and so I'm superexcited, so interesting that you
bring up that i-35 runs theentire length of the country,
because I'm so excited to do anevent down in texas on the
southern border, you know where35 terminates, wherever that is
right, and then to do an eventup in duluth, um, that we claim
(34:52):
that whole corridor for christright is that cool?
Speaker 1 (34:57):
yeah, yeah I think in pictures a lot, so when people
are talking, I'm constantly.
It's almost like I'm seeing amovie, right, that's amazing.
So tell us a little bit moreabout you, know your events and
you'd never started a ministrybefore.
So what did that look like?
(35:17):
Was it challenging?
Give us the ins and outs ofwhat this looks like.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
But I had, god had really positioned me well in
this, in that I had launched anumber of organizations, a
couple of community bands that Iorganized and launched out in
the first few years and otherthings, I guess, and so I had a
lot of practical experience inthat way, which was helpful.
But the other thing is God puttwo people right in my lap, who
it was kind of like this momwhen I first started teaching.
These two beautiful people camealongside me, grandpa phil um,
(36:24):
I had his four grandchildren inmy band program and phil stepped
in as the treasurer excuse me,the secretary for the ministry,
and he was I don't know, I wouldguess he was, yeah, probably in
his 70s at the time, so fullywise and experienced and I mean
just through and through loverof Christ, and then a good
(36:48):
friend actually of my wife's andmine, dawn, who was the
treasurer as we launched out,and she came with a ton of
business sense and HR backgroundfrom her corporate life and so
so much of the work.
I mean I'm not saying I didn'twork at it, but those two really
(37:10):
did a lot to get the ministrygrounded in terms of you know
all the, all the stuff right,you know the 501 C, three papers
and the, the bylaws and thearticles and the.
You know a statement of faiththat reflects well who we are
and all of that stuff, and sothat's that's kind of how we
(37:33):
started out.
And then both of them after atime, approach me Phil Phil, I
think, first, and then Dawnlater, you know, and they both
just said you know, I think mytime here is done and it was
hard and they were both rightand I knew that when they told
me, I mean, I know they'rediscerning too, and so it was
awesome that season had passedand it was time to move in to
(37:55):
the next, which we did.
So, yeah, that's the initiallaunch, I guess.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Yeah, so tell us a little bit more about you.
Know these.
You said encounter events andlike in between the events, like
what is it that makes you beout there making an impact?
Speaker 3 (38:18):
yeah, yeah, I'll just kind of give a big picture
overview of 235 and what it isthat we do.
And so, to start with ourmission, which is helping our
target audiences middle schooland high school students, and so
the mission is buildingconfidence in prayer, and so God
(38:41):
has given us two specific tools.
I would call them to do that.
One is what we now call ourelevate times of prayer,
encouragement and worship, andthat's what we've actually done.
Are these one day events?
So far, they've all been oneday.
They've been saturdays, fromnine to four, and so I just
(39:03):
walked through kind of what thatlooks like on a saturday yeah,
absolutely yeah, yeah.
So what we've done is, you know,we've gone into a local
community, visited with pastoralstaff primarily other ministry
leaders, like you knowparaministries like Youth for
Christ or Young Life, those kindof ministries that have
(39:26):
traction within the community.
We've shared the idea that Godhas given us the vision for the
day.
And where they bought in right,where God's convicted their
hearts and said, yeah, let's dothis, we've partnered with them
to make those elevate eventshappen.
And where we haven't gottenthat buy-in, then we've accepted
(39:46):
the fact that, you know, it'snot our role to convict people's
hearts, right, our job is toshare the vision and let God
convict hearts.
So we've just gone where God'sled by people saying, yeah, we
want a piece of this, right.
And then, effectively, what itlooks like is, if you picture,
you know, most of our eventshave, most of our Elevate events
(40:09):
have been in churches.
Some have been in, actually inpublic schools.
We've done one of them at asenior center.
But if you picture a churchwith chairs in the auditorium,
if you were to pull those chairsinto circles, you know.
So you've got an auditorium ofcircular tables, right, this is
kind of the ideal.
And you seat four to sixstudents at those tables.
(40:33):
At each table, middle schooland high school students, and
then two table leaders.
One is a 20 something, theother one is what we call an
experienced adult.
You know somebody who is my ageright, an old timer.
And those tables are what Icall our prayer centers, right,
(40:53):
that's where prayer is going tohappen is at those tables.
Then up on the stage is a young, you know, vibrant worship band
that can lead out.
Well, when students come in atthe start of the day, the staff
is already up front on theirfeet in worship.
The band's playing.
Students come in, they check in,they're given a table
(41:14):
assignment, somebody helps themfind their way into the table,
they set their stuff down andthey just jump right into
worship.
So we have 15 20 minutes ofworship to kick off the day.
Then there's a, an intro fromthe front, which I'll actually
come back to, but kind of, youknow the welcome and hey, let's
find our seats at the table.
And then, to get students intoa time of prayer, we have
(41:41):
someone come to the front of theroom.
This is someone that's beenselected ahead of time and has
planned for this.
Right, this isn't a?
Hey, somebody jump up here, butthen this individual gets up
and gives what we refer to as anactivation, which is a term
that you know sometimes is usedin the prayer community, but
(42:04):
others don't know.
But activation really is simplya spark, right, it's a way of
igniting the fire.
(42:28):
And so the way we coach peopleto activate, like you know,
kristen, if you're going toconsider being an activator, I'd
say you know, listen, we've gotthis event happening.
This we hold to is that wedon't talk about praying and we
don't teach about praying.
What we do is we allow time andspace for students to pray.
(42:49):
They learn not by being talkedat, they learn through immersion
, they learn by doing.
And so, kristen, if you want tobe an activator, here's what
I'd ask of you.
You've got five minutes at themost.
If you do it in two, kristen,if you want to be an activator,
here's what I'd ask of you.
You've got five minutes at themost.
If you do it in two, we'll giveyou a bonus, right, but you've
got five minutes to get up, andin those five minutes we want
you to start here.
Start by saying hey, listen,friends, there's a lot of ways
(43:12):
to pray.
I want to share with you oneway that works for me.
It's not the only way, right,and it may not even work for you
, but it's a way that I connectwith God in a really sweet way.
Right, this works for me.
Here's what it sounds like, andhere's here's, you know, kind
of the approach.
(43:32):
Here's what it sounds like.
And then to wrap up with andnow let's try it at our tables.
And then what we ask of ourtable leaders is the best they
can to not do anything, don'ttalk about it, don't reteach it,
just be quiet and let studentsstart praying.
And what we see, what we'veseen in the last nine years
(43:56):
anyway, is normally I would sayprobably eight out of ten tables
a student will step into it,they'll start praying, and once
one student prays, the rest ofthem will step into it.
There'll be a table or twowhere it stalls.
You know, it just isn't goinganywhere.
And we coach our staff.
(44:17):
When it becomes uncomfortable,that's okay, just be quiet,
right, just let it happen.
And when it becomes reallyuncomfortable, well then, don't
talk about it and don't reteachthe activation, but start
praying in the way you know.
Kristen just brought thisactivation Just start praying in
that way to model it and thenagain be quiet and let students
(44:41):
jump in.
And it can be awkward.
It is, and we really challengeour staff to be okay with the
awkwardness that this is thepiece that we so often will not
commit to in prayer and becauseof that we miss the fullness, we
miss the opportunity, studentsmiss the opportunity to really
(45:05):
enter into prayer.
You with me so far.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Yes, You're facilitating space right.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you know I am.
I am just wildly confidentabout what we do, and I'm wildly
confident because it's not myidea there, say that again yeah,
yeah, I'm wildly confidentabout what we do, and that's
(45:35):
because it's not my idea.
This is god's idea.
Now, there's a lot that we doin the day.
You know we start at nineo'clock.
Well, god didn't tell us tostart at nine o'clock.
We feed people lunch.
He didn't tell us to do that.
Right, there's a lot of thingswe do that he didn't tell us to
do, but the one piece that wasso clear was immersion Let
(45:58):
students pray.
And in talking to people nowliterally all over the nation,
and not like I've talked tothousands of people across the
nation, I haven't, but you knowit's very much the norm that if
and in my own personalexperience, you know, I go to a
day- of prayer I go to a prayerconference.
What does that look like?
Well, at nine o'clock, someonegets up and presents for an hour
(46:21):
around.
Here's a way to approach prayer, right, or a way to pray, and
that's beautiful and it'sbuilding and encouraging, right.
And then we have a break at 10o'clock and I go in the hallway
and I find someone to pray with,and at 10 30 I go in and I
listen to an hour or 90 minutesof someone else talking about
(46:42):
how to pray, and it's beautifuland it's good and maybe even, um
, god has asked them to do thatright.
There's no less value to it.
It's just not what he's askedus to do.
He's asked us to instead allowtime and space to pray.
And because I'm rolling, I'mgoing to just keep right on.
(47:03):
When I was a kid, I was adistance runner and I had run.
I mean, I was runningconsistently six to eight miles
a day.
It was kind of my norm, right.
And so you know people whotrain will say you know, I've
gone through the wall, right,and I'd been through the wall
(47:23):
many times.
But then one of my oldersisters called me she's going to
school up in Duluth and shecalled me and said hey, let's
run Grandma's Marathon nextspring.
I'm like, yeah, okay, so Istart training for the marathon.
And now I'm starting to run 12,13, 14, you know, 16 miles at a
(47:44):
goal and I went through thiswall.
I'd never been through beforeChris and I started.
This probably happened for acouple months where I was
running those kinds of distancesand I was aware something was
kind of weird.
But one day I'm out theretrucking along a mile 14 or
(48:05):
whatever, when I became awarethat my feet were moving
underneath of me.
You know, I I had gone throughthis wall to a place where I
wasn't really even aware that myfeet were moving, that I was
actually running.
I was in a different place inmy head.
Right, what we've seen atElevate, not just with our
(48:28):
students but with our staff,many who, I would say, are very
seasoned prayer warriors they'vegone through a wall they've
never been through before,because of a very simple fact
that they have the time and thespace to go deeper than they've
ever gone before and, moreimportantly, to allow holy
spirit to come in through thedoor that they've opened for
(48:51):
them.
Right?
Speaker 1 (48:53):
yes, so incredible.
I I know when, when we were atprayer hub, you, you walked us
through um.
I believe you walked us throughum.
I believe you, you walked usthrough an exercise.
Do you remember what that was?
I remember exactly.
I wish I could remember.
Speaker 3 (49:12):
I kind of think I did Um, did I use the ax acronym?
Speaker 1 (49:19):
I believe so, and you ?
I think you read a scripture.
Speaker 3 (49:24):
Oh, yeah, yeah, no, yeah, we did.
I'm praying through scripture.
Sorry, I'm just I'm actuallyjumping into my documents here.
So, yeah, we prayed throughscripture together that day and
this is we've seen activations,some, some that you know kind of
(49:46):
repeat, you know, not the samepresenters necessarily, but like
using acronyms to to pray Right, I mean, or praying through
scripture.
That's one that that comes upoften, that comes up often, um,
and so, yeah, that's what Ipresented that day was that idea
(50:07):
of just, you know, um, adisciplined and measured way of
taking a small passage ofscripture, um and that's
important that it's short andthen just meditating, which you
know again, you talk about theuh, emotionally charged words in
today's church.
You know, meditate.
Meditate isn't a bad thing,right, it's to just allow God to
speak to us.
I guess is how I would reflecton that and then to really think
(50:32):
, to contemplate and then topray right, and this process of
doing this over and over againwithin the word.
This is a really beautiful wayum to start and it's just so
attainable for someone who maybehasn't um spent a lot of time
in prayer or maybe spent a lotof time in the word.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
So you know what I'm really capturing and catching
here with, with what you'redoing.
You know I feel like our worldis is I mean, I said it before
we even got started I'm liketime goes by so fast.
Um, I like we have to be reallyintentional to make room for
(51:14):
the things that he's called usto do.
So you are facilitating, um,the space for these kids that
you know they're in this worldin this time that is, you know,
a very quick pace world andyou're giving them the space to
really slow down and you knowjust that uncomfortable it is
(51:38):
uncomfortable If you haven'tjust a little bit of my story,
like he had me really learn howto like unwind from grinding.
Um years ago I called it theunwinding process and learning
how to walk again because mylife was in such a quick pace.
So I can imagine a lot of thesekids.
You know whether it's being inschool or you know whatever else
(52:00):
activities they have, sports.
You know there's a lot going on, right, but to really be
intentional and help them, youknow, slow down.
Speaker 3 (52:11):
Yeah.
Be, OK with no, that'sabsolutely right.
And again, what's interesting,especially in the first events
that we did, you know we startedat home, right?
I mean, the very first Elevatewas in Owatonna, where I live,
of course it would be.
That's because that's wherewe've got my wife and I have the
(52:32):
most connections right.
And so we gathered people thatwe knew well and know to be
prayer warriors, and that wasour team right and that was our
team right.
And even among them, you knowthe impact that it had in their
prayer lives in that one day.
It's just amazing, and for mepersonally to have gone through
this, I don't know, I thinkwe've done it 10 or about 10
(52:59):
times, I think now, and theimpact it's had in my life in
that way and a lot of it is justtime and space, is that simple,
I think.
And you know what happens inthat time and space, right, I
guess, not to disregard the moveof the Holy Spirit, because
that's what's happening is, youknow.
I mean, what is prayer if it'snot opening the door of our
heart to allow the Holy Spiritin right, the door of our heart
(53:21):
to allow Holy Spirit in right?
And so when we hold the dooropen for a longer period of time
.
He can do more work really.
So you know I started out withyeah, I'm sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
No, I was just going to ask do you have like a
testimony, maybe one of thesekids that came to an event and
and left um with some some newkeys?
Speaker 3 (53:46):
that was really mind-blowing for you to hear the
testimony on the other sideyeah, yeah, yeah, one of the
interesting things is we don'thave a lot, we haven't captured
um testimony from these youthwho are now adults.
Right, a lot of them have grownup and are adults, but because
(54:09):
when they came to the event theywere youth, they were minors we
didn't collect any contactinformation.
You know, we don't and we won't.
I mean we're not going to dothat, right, I mean, it's their
youth pastor, or sometimes momor dad, that registers them, and
so it's actually this is one ofour tasks and I'll be fully,
(54:32):
fully disclosing here I don'tthink this is going to happen
this year, maybe next year, butwe need to figure out a way to
get back to these, you know,quote kids who are now young
adults and ask them you know,now, five years, a decade later,
what has what has the impact ofthat day been?
But what we know, I mean we'vehad just that.
(54:55):
I say we know, but the eventright, the event, the event
right, the event has had justphenomenal reviews, just
amazingly consistent.
And I don't mean, hey, it was alot of fun and the food was
great.
I mean, yeah, we get that tooright.
Or the worship, you know, andthose are all good things right,
(55:17):
but it's really the things likeyou know, the impact in
particular of um you know, of ofgod in the experience, and some
students, for the very firsttime, have experienced what that
feels like.
And then others who haveexperienced it, you know, are
experiencing it again, arethankful for that.
Some, um, you know it went to adifferent level maybe than what
(55:41):
they'd experienced before.
But so much, I mean probablythe most important things can't
be measured.
I mean, how do we measure theimpact of the Holy Spirit in the
day?
Well, I mean yeah, I mean, wecan sense it because we're there
, right, and people who haveexperienced that know what we're
(56:03):
talking about.
But not so measurable.
But what we can measure theeasiest statistic, if you will
is what's your confidence inprayer?
And so one of the questions weask is well, it's two questions
what was your confidence inprayer at the start of the day
Sliding scale one to ten, right?
What's your confidence inprayer at the start of the day
Sliding scale one to ten, right.
What's your confidence inprayer now?
And students report that, onaverage, their confidence in
(56:28):
prayer increases 40% in that oneday, and one out of three tells
us their confidence in prayerdoubles.
And so this has become one ofmy kind of rallying cries.
You know, hey preacher, heyyouth pastor, hey mom or dad,
youth leader.
If you could send your studentsto a one-day event where this
(56:52):
is what they're reporting youknow, a 40% increase, one out of
three that their confidence inprayer is doubling, wouldn't you
send them?
Because you can do this rightin your church, and we don't
want any money for this, wedon't want any fame, we don't
want to become big, all we wantto do is give it to you.
Do you want it.
Yeah, so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (57:18):
So let's just say somebody we're reaching a a lot
of countries on here.
Let's just say somebody inchina is listening today like
what would it look like for youto share this with others in
other places, beyond the 35corridor?
Speaker 3 (57:36):
yeah, well, the timing could be more beautiful.
You know, christine, you talkedabout at the start that it
feels like this is a long timein coming, but in so many ways,
you know again, god's timing isso perfect, right, I mentioned,
you know, the last 18 to 20months.
We've been very purposefulabout building out our structure
and organization and part ofthat is to intentionally release
(57:59):
Elevate at a broader you know,into a broader space.
I guess I would say as a resultof that, in just the last few
weeks we've all of a suddengotten.
We have four new Elevate eventsjumping up and this one started
I should back up.
It started as a one-day or ayearly event and then we did it
(58:21):
for a couple of years.
We did it twice a year and thenCOVID and then, like everybody,
it seems, things just fellapart and we had a couple of
really dry years and reallywe're just getting back into it
now.
But one of these elevates willhappen in Seattle and we're in
process.
We have essentially builtElevate into a plan in the can.
(58:44):
You know that as a teacherright Plan in the can.
So here's everything you needto make this event happen.
But we also know it's imperfect, and so we're in.
You know, these events in thenext, both this spring and early
summer, will really help ussharpen that.
(59:05):
But by fall I'm confident we'regoing to have a plan that we
can give you know you mentionedChina or wherever right that we
can give them everything theyneed in terms of support
material, training, marketingstuff right, of support material
, training, marketing stuff,right, and they can host this
(59:27):
event locally.
And that sure is our hope, andour goal would be to again to
just give it away whereverpeople want to use it.
So incredible.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (59:37):
Scott, absolutely.
Well, how can people?
Speaker 3 (59:45):
get a hold of you to hear more.
Yeah, probably easiest is justinfo at pew35.org.
Speaker 1 (59:52):
All right, that's good, do you have a website as
well?
Yeah, it's just pew35.org.
Okay, awesome, yeah, I'll havethis information notes for
everybody to access and, um, soat the end of every podcast
episode, or, as the lord and Icall it, a seed cast, um, I like
(01:00:14):
the guests who just think ofone person putting in today and
do you have anything else thatyou would want to share and
speak over this one, and thenwould you pray us out today.
Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
Yeah, and I apologize .
You cut out for just a momentthere.
Could you ask one more timewhat it is?
Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
Well, I see you have a question here.
Yes, you are absolutely open tosharing about your app.
Please do that.
Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
Yeah, yeah, thank you .
Well, first of all, I'll justwrap up real quickly with
Elevate.
You know the format.
We start out in worship, as Idescribed.
We move to the tables, we havean activation and spend 30 to 40
minutes in prayer right.
Then it's worship time again.
So everybody's up on their feetup front by the stage.
We spend 15 to 20 minutes inworship and then it's back to
(01:01:02):
the tables for 30 to 40 minutesin prayer.
That's the model for the day.
So, just so, that's out therethe other piece.
So I said, god gave us two toolsto help build confidence in
prayer.
One is Elevate, the other isthe Encouraging Prayer phone app
, and that phone app is in betatesting right now and content is
(01:01:27):
being built out for it.
This app, again, it's not goingto be the next great thing.
It's not going to be all that.
It's going to be what God askedus to build.
And what he asked us to build isan app that has two functions,
only two things.
There'll be a lot more, but thetwo things that God asked of us
is that it connects studentsone-on-one, based on their age,
(01:01:49):
their gender and their walk, soyou know their perceived
relationship with Christ right,and that it will send content to
students based on those samecriteria.
And so you know, I think ofmyself back in my junior high
days, when I was reading theword but not being discipled,
right.
But if I had the EncouragingPrayer phone app, what I would
(01:02:10):
have done is I would haveclicked the button to say I want
a prayer partner, andEncouraging Prayer would have
said okay, take this littleintake survey to help us
understand where you're at inyour walk.
And based on that, it wouldhave connected me, a middle
school boy who was early in hiswalk, with another boy who was
(01:02:31):
in middle school who was earlyin his walk one on one to pray
for each other.
Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
Oh, I love that, that's one piece, right.
Speaker 3 (01:02:42):
And then the other thing is there's so much great
biblical content out there nowfor kids to consume, and so if
they're trying to figure out,you know, things around gender
or identity or sexuality, theycan find that, of course, the
problem is there's so much thatis not biblical living in the
same space, and so whatEncouraging Prayer will do
(01:03:05):
essentially is sort that andsend students biblically sound
content.
That's not only so, let's say,identity, right, there's a lot
of content that's consumable formiddle school and high school
kids.
But then there's some contentthat it's just too much for
middle schoolers to consume,right.
(01:03:27):
Well, the app will tag that, soit's not sent to middle
schoolers, it'll be sentdirectly to middle schoolers, so
that it's a good match.
So that's the EncouragingPrayer app.
Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
We believe it'll launch the end of this year and
we're super excited to see whatGod does.
Speaker 3 (01:03:55):
with that I mean we don't know.
Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
We don't know what he's going to do other than
build confidence in prayer,because that's what he's asked
us to do.
The app launches.
Um, you know, we can always addthe app information to the show
notes later on, because this,this podcast, will be around for
many years.
This episode will be so I'm veryexcited for all he's doing in
and through you and um.
I know you mentioned that.
I kind of went out for a moment.
(01:04:16):
But, um, to wrap up, one of thethings I like the podcast
guests to do or, like I say,it's a seed cast um is for you
to to just really get a visionof the one that's listening in
today.
And is there anything else thatyou'd want to speak over the
one, and would you pray us outtoday?
Speaker 3 (01:04:34):
Yeah, yeah.
I would just go back to theimpact that four 10-year-olds
(01:04:56):
had in my life, and again, I'mconfident that each of them
would say that wasn't them, thatwas God, and there's some truth
to that.
And yet they were obedient toliving on mission.
They were salt and light andbecause of that it changed my
life.
And so I would just encouragethe one, the one be bold in how
(01:05:21):
you live.
You know, it's not alwaysproselytizing, right, it's not
always the big event, it'sloving other people.
Well, you know, he said right,what's the greatest commandment?
And the second is like thefirst.
He said right, you know, loveone another.
Not only love one another, butdon't love them like they love
(01:05:44):
you.
Love them like I have firstloved you, right, you know, love
one another, not only love oneanother, but don't love them
like they love you.
Love them like I have firstloved you, right.
Don't expect anything in return.
Don't go into it withexpectation.
Love them not because you expectanything or because, yeah, you
want anything, right, right, orbecause they've already loved
you.
Love them because it's whatI've called you to do and that's
(01:06:07):
what these 10, you know, these,uh, poor 10 year olds did.
They just love people.
Well, um, so, if you're the one, be bold in how you love people
.
Don't let um, don't be afraidto let people know how much you
love them, in whatever words orwhatever ways you may choose to
do that, that they might knowwho love is our friend, jesus
(01:06:31):
and Father.
With that, I just I give thanksand praise for these little
ones who you chose to use tochange my life, god.
I just pray a sweet blessing oneach of them as they're now
walking out their young adultlives.
God, I pray that they truly willcontinue to be salt and light
and have great impact for yourkingdom.
(01:06:53):
God, I thank you for all whohave been involved in launching
235 and for the great supportwe've had.
God, I thank you, too, foreverybody listening in today.
For those who, maybe, arelaunching out in another
direction, in a way that God hascalled them, I just pray, lord,
(01:07:13):
that you give them good clarityand you give them commitment,
lord, a real steadfastness tostay with it and to continue
praying and discerning untilthey know truly, lord, what it
is that you've called them to,that they do something that's of
(01:07:33):
God and not that's just greator good.
And, father, I just thank youand praise you for this time
today and I ask your blessing onnew wings and Kristen as she
continues to do what she does InJesus' name.
Amen.
Speaker 1 (01:07:48):
Thank you, Pat.
It's been a joy to have you ontoday and thank you for being a
brave voice who's setting othersfree.
I'm going to close with theHope Unlocked anchoring verse,
which is may the God of hopefill you with all joy and peace,
and believing that by the powerof the Holy Spirit, you may
abound in hope.
That's Romans 15, 13.
So thank you again, Pat.
(01:08:10):
As I mentioned, I will have allof his contact information in
the show notes and I will beback with another episode next
week.
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:08:19):
Thanks, my friend, bye, bye.
Welcome to the Hope Unlocked podcast.
I'm your host, kristen Kurtz,and I'm also the founder of New
Wings Coaching.
I help and empower wild-heartedand adventurous women of faith
feeling caged and stuck, unlocktheir true purpose and potential
, break free from limitationsand thrive with confidence,
courage and hope.
If you're curious to learn moreabout coaching with me, head to
newwingscoachingnet and be sureto explore the show notes for
(00:38):
ways to connect with me further.
Get ready to dive in as weuncover empowering keys and
insights in this episode.
So tune in and let's unlockhope together.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Welcome to the Hope Unlocked podcast.
I'm Kristen Kurtz, your host.
I pray this episode is like aholy IV of hope for your soul.
Please help me.
Welcome Pat Kunkel to the show.
I'm very excited to have himhere today.
I feel like this is along-awaited interview.
I'm very excited to have himhere today.
I feel like this is along-awaited interview.
We actually met at a localgathering called Prayer Hub, led
by a mutual friend, marieLarson, and I was just really
(01:18):
awestruck by the things that hewas sharing the ministry that
he's part of, and I reallywanted to highlight both his
story and the ministry.
So, pat, would you be open tosharing a little bit about
yourself?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Yeah, kristen, I'm just so glad to be here and you
know, like we talked about alittle earlier on, I just, I
just love to share the visionthat God has given us for the
ministry.
And I know there's a power inour personal stories, and so I
look forward to sharing both inour personal stories, and so I
look forward to sharing both.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yes, Well, where do you want to start?
Do you want to start from thebeginning?
You know?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
you can start anywhere in life.
Yeah, I think that makes sense.
I'll start at the beginning andshare my personal testimony and
then that will lead into it,weaves into the, the ministry,
the launch of the ministry andwhat's happening now, and so,
yeah, I'll just dive in.
So I'm just, I'm amazinglythankful.
I grew up in a in a home wheremy father was a devout catholic
(02:22):
the day he died and he reallyinstilled in me an appreciation
for the value behind the thingsthat we do around our faith
Faith, practices, right, valuefor him.
But if I were to summarize itin one phrase, I guess I'd say
(02:45):
he taught me that there's valueto the practice of the faith if
we value the practice, and sojust really teaching me to
understand why we do the thingsthat we do, no matter what the
practice is right.
We do the things that we do nomatter what the practice is
(03:07):
right, and that there's beautyin that when we do those things
to honor God right or to helpourselves grow in our
relationship with Christ.
I knew, even as a young guy Iguess maybe junior high age, I
(03:32):
think when I really became awarethat that kind of upbringing
was different from those of myclassmates or those people my
age, even, I would say, mostpeople within the body that I
was engaged in at that time inhow my dad taught me to seek
understanding Right and toreally dig in.
And my father was in the Word,which was also unusual among
those in our church, but hespent a lot of time reading both
(03:54):
the Bible and then he read alot of what I'd call second
source material.
Also, you know other otherstories about faith by Christian
authors and again that modelingreally impacted me and really,
as a result, when I was injunior high, I started reading
(04:16):
scripture and even for my dad Iwouldn't say that I was
discipled, certainly not in anyformal sense.
I mean, he witnessed, hedemonstrated faith constantly,
right, but he didn't give me anyguidance on how to approach
reading scripture, how to study.
I didn't really get any of thatin those years, but we know the
(04:44):
word penetrates us, and so Istarted reading and because I
didn't know better, I started atpage one and I read until I got
to the end of the book and whenI got to the end of Revelation
I put my bookmark back atGenesis and I started over.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
How old were you when you read through the Bible?
Speaker 3 (05:02):
I was junior high, you know.
So, whatever that is, I suppose11, 12, when I first started, I
would say, faithfully reading,and you know, I don't think I
understood a lot, I probablystill don't, but again, the word
penetrates us and, man, I don'tknow how to say it other than,
(05:26):
as a result, I really believe inlarge part of reading the word,
you know God.
Just, he took over my heart.
You know, I fell in love withJesus because of his word and so
, of course, being a good youngCatholic man who was in love
(05:49):
with Jesus, the answer was, ofcourse, to go to seminary.
That's what I thought, and so,right out of high school, I did
enter Catholic seminary.
And a second, I would sayreally beautiful experience for
me, like the experience I hadgrowing up being under my dad's
(06:12):
tutelage, so to speak.
When I got to seminary, I'd onlybeen there a few months when
the priest in charge got up infront of us seminarians and he
said the words I'll never forget.
And that is he said seminarians.
And he, he said the words I'llnever forget.
And that is he said you know,if you're here to become a
priest, you're here for thewrong reason.
And he went to the board wentto the.
(06:34):
You know it was a chalkboardback in those days for the
younger viewers that's.
Uh, that was the predecessor ofthe white board, or what is now
called the smart board.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
I'm looking up missionary everybody if you want
to hear more about thechalkboard.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Right, yeah, he goes to the chalkboard and he writes
down vocation and then underthat he writes vocal and he
underlines it.
You know, to call a vocation, acalling, and he turns around to
us and he says you know, myheart and my prayer for you is
that you'll be a group of men, acommunity, who will pray and
(07:08):
encourage each other to discernGod's will in your life.
Don't focus on becoming apriest.
Focus on what it is that God'scalling you to.
That's incredible, right, it'sincredible, right, it's amazing.
I so believe, kristen.
You know, if this were theexperience in seminary,
(07:29):
regardless of denomination,right?
If this were the seminaryexperience everywhere, shouldn't
every believer?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
attend the seminary.
Wow, wow.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Yeah, yeah.
So I was there a year and ahalf.
I was in prayer and discernmentand I really was, and I know I
had many other guys in thatcommunity praying for me and
certainly those in leadership.
And then I went, when I madethe decision, I went to father
(08:04):
and I said you know I'm going tobe leaving and here's why.
And he did like he for me,excuse me, he did for me what he
did for every other man whomade a decision through
discernment.
And what he did is he got upthat Saturday night.
We always had a big dinnertogether Saturday nights at
seminary.
We always had a big dinnertogether Saturday nights at
(08:25):
seminary.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
And he got up and he said we're going to celebrate
tonight Because Pat Kunkel hasdiscerned his vocation.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
God's called him to be a school teacher and I walked
that up for 25 years.
And what an amazing blessing towalk through life knowing my
purpose and understanding whatGod had called me to do.
Yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Initially, when you went into seminary, did you have
the notion that you were goingto seminary to be a priest?
Was that?
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
To be a priest, was that?
Oh yeah, absolutely.
When I entered, I assumed youknow that, really, that that's
why I had arrived and, you know,not a bad motivation.
I certainly wouldn't want to inany way, you know, misrepresent
that.
But what I found out is isreally that through, through
(09:23):
this prayer and discernment, Ifound out that that calling
really was that I wanted to knowmore about him, I wanted to be
discipled, I wanted to learnright, and those things were not
happening in the body that Iwas engaged in at the time.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
So that was instrumental for that word about
vocation and that chalkboardmoment like change the
trajectory of your life.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
There's no question, it was exactly that, a
life-changing moment.
And I was blessed in many otherways in that experience, many
other ways in that experienceSeeing my first healing miracle
within that body and laying onof hands and calling out for
healing.
It was really a beautifulexperience.
(10:16):
And then again, the you knowwhere I left off was the
launching point, then, right ofstepping in now to teaching.
Understand that that's wheregod had called me and that, well
, you know, many of us, right,we have jobs and we have
vocations.
They're not necessarily thesame um, which is fine of mine,
(10:39):
um, overlapped right.
And so 25 years of teaching, Ithink that I, you know, I was a
good teacher.
Most of the time I waseffective.
Right, there were certainlytimes that I was ineffective and
in 25 years, I really believe Ihad two or three moments of
brilliance, but yeah, but what Iknow for sure is God was
(11:03):
effective through me because Iwas doing what he called me to
teach Excuse me what he calledme to do.
And he really blessed me inthat and even in my first
teaching position, seeingstudents coming into
relationship with families at aspiritual level, which, of
(11:24):
course, years ago was, you know,quite a bit easier, I would say
, than today.
Things were more open, I guessI would say, but even to the
last day that I taught justreally beautiful connections
with students and families, um,in a spiritual way.
So I'll stop there.
(11:45):
That's a big piece of it.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
So, as you're, were you in public school.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yes, yeah, yeah.
I taught, yeah, all my years inpublic school.
I was at, I guess, threedifferent districts in those
years, but yeah, all publicschool.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Okay, so I don't know about the, the listeners, but
I'm a very curious person.
These brilliant moments, you'vegot to tell us at least one of
them yeah, yeah, well, where tostart?
Speaker 3 (12:20):
um, well, there was in in my first position.
You know what can I say?
I was a young educator and Iwas prideful and arrogant and I
thought I knew everything right.
I tried to emulate the personthat I did my student teaching
(12:45):
under, and he rolled in a lotdifferent way than I did.
I'm really very laid back andeasygoing, and he was very much
more a commander, and I don'tmean that in any disrespectful
way, he was just much more rigid, I would say, and I tried to
mimic that.
But there was this mom.
I had one of her daughters in myprogram at the time I taught
(13:09):
middle school band, and so shewas in my band, and this mom
just had a way of comingalongside me and I absolutely
know this was God's intervention, because I know she's a woman
(13:30):
of God, her family, they'repeople of God.
She had this way of comingalongside of me, though and
really coaching me, really likeI was her own son.
You know, hey, mr Kunkel, youknow she'd always call me Mr
Kunkel, never Pat.
Hey, mr Kunkel, you know nicejob with the concert, or you
know nice job with this or that.
And you know nice job with theconcert or you know, nice job
with this or that, and you knowI was thinking, and then she
would share some things thatwould help me to see the great
(13:53):
opportunity that I had before meto improve my skills, you know,
and a lot of it again, to justbe humble and to seek help in
the places where I didn'tunderstand, and that just led to
a long relationship, a faithrelationship with her and her
family.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
So, yeah, Amazing and it and it goes back to it's
even something that I talk abouta lot Like.
We really need people in ourcorner, right, and I can imagine
just the brevity of how youwere in so many kids' corners
throughout all of those years.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah, you know I just talked about humility and so,
with great humility, I say Ireally believe that God anointed
me with an ability to encourage, well, to really.
You know it's almost a dirtyword to say in the public school
, but I'll say it here that heanointed me to love children.
(15:00):
Well, and you know no one candeny love children.
Well, and you know no one candeny love.
Everybody understands what.
Everybody understands that,even if they can't identify what
it is or who.
He is right, kristen.
I mean like hope.
We know who hope is and eventhough the unbeliever wouldn't
(15:21):
name him as Jesus Christ, theycan't deny him.
Everybody understands whenwe're giving people hope, that
that's what it is.
So, yeah, it was a realblessing to have those years
with students.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Do you have any testimonies or stories, as you
were a teacher, like impactingone of your students or more?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
I think, like most teachers I would say, especially
, I guess I would say, arethings that I've heard a decade
or two past the time that I wasactually working with those
(16:15):
students, and so now a lot of 20, 30-year-old students who have
reached out and reconnected withme, and I think you know
there's a lot of powerfulstories, but by far I believe
the most impactful story is thestory that leads to the ministry
(16:37):
, and so I'll just jump intothat if I could.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yeah, yeah.
So about a decade back now, Ithink it was 10, 11 years ago um
, I got this group of studentsin my band program, a group of
sixth graders, and thisparticular group I also
supervised at lunch and recess.
And, and you know, if you everwant to really see how kids
(17:07):
behave, don't go to theclassroom, just follow them out
to recess, because that's whereyou see how they really live,
you know.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yeah, so I have this group of kids at recess and I
heard the language that theyused and I saw how they behaved
and, in particular, I saw howthey treated other kids and, to
cut to the chase, it made mewant to quit teaching.
(17:38):
Yeah, and again, I had and itwasn't this whole group actually
, I could limit it to fourstudents in this entire group.
You know probably, well,definitely over 100 kids in the
band.
There's only four kids.
But again, just veryconsistently, I heard their
(18:00):
language, I saw their behavior,I saw how they treated other
kids and it made me want to quitteaching and I struggled with
that for a year and a half andmy prayer partner at the time,
my accountability partner, is ateacher in a nearby town and I
told Jerry many times I'm justlike I just can't, I can't
(18:21):
figure this out, because I knewGod had called me to teach and
it just felt so compelled toleave.
I just knew I was supposed toleave and my wife and I talked
about it many times and again,the short story is, a year and a
half later I did leave and Ileft in large part and I'll just
(18:47):
hit it one more time because ofthe language because of the
behavior of these four studentsand, in particular, how I saw
them treat others.
And now this is where we haveto ask the listeners to really
check in here.
I left because I wanted to be alot more like those four
students.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
You want to impact more of those students.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
No, I wanted my language and my behavior and how
I treated people to align withthe language and the behavior
and how I saw these four treatothers.
Because what I saw is four kidswho lived on mission for Christ
, and they weren't carryingtheir Bibles into school, they
weren't proselytizing out on theplayground.
It was none of those things,you know, that we often think of
(19:30):
as the ways that we witnessRight.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
And.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
I saw what I observed was the silliest things.
Like we'd be out on theplayground and kids at the
school played a game called foursquare, you know, out there on
the playground and, um, that kidwould come through the doors
out onto the playground, thatkid being the one who was never
(19:54):
going to get chosen to be partof it.
They didn't wait for him to getrejected, they went to him and
they brought him into theirgroup.
And you know, gosh, what can Isay?
Again, the very simplest thingthat God used to convict me over
(20:16):
and over and over again ofright, this is how I've called
you to live, to simply lovepeople.
Well, and it just it broke myheart, kristen.
It just it was.
And I don't mean that I wasliving poorly or not living on
mission, I was but it reallyconvicted me to move to a
(20:39):
platform beyond public educationwhere I had more freedom in
talking about Jesus, about, youknow, preaching, right, truly
evangelizing, etc.
But it was really, I mean, itwas God, but it was God through
four little 10-year-olds, theimpact that God will choose to
(21:01):
have through us if we allow himto, no matter our age or our
giftings or any skill sets thatwe think we do or don't have.
It changed my life.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
So those four kids were like the catalyst for you
to launch into more in your life.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Yeah, yeah, actually it was.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Love your was love your too.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Thank you for being vulnerable right yeah, yeah, it
was interesting that their wholesixth grade year went by and I
was struggling with this andpraying with my wife and with my
accountability partner, andthen that over the summer I
actually did a fair amount ofresearch around.
You know where exactly are thelegal lines in terms of
(21:51):
spiritual conversation in theclassroom, I guess for lack of
better way of saying it becausewhat I didn't want to do is
cross that line, I wanted to bea respecter of the law.
You know in how I did that, um.
But then, in the fall of theirseventh grade year, it was
probably october, late october Ithink, um, one of them came
(22:12):
into my office.
She came in with a friend ofhers and you know, mr kunkle, my
grandpa is sick, he's in thehospital.
Will you pray for him?
Um, and I knew the student, Iknew the parents and so I knew
their people, their Christiansand so that.
But I did pray and I went homeand I told my wife, you know, I
(22:34):
think you know God's beennudging me for a year and a half
and today he hit me with thetwo by four because it was like
hello.
Can I make this any moreobvious to you that it's time to
move on, and that was reallydecision-making time for us that
, yep, we need to do this.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
So how old were you at this time, if you don't mind
me asking when you were gettingthe impression to leave?
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Yeah, so I would have been 40, 40.
Yep 4647 somewhere in there.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Okay, Now you know most don't retire early, Right?
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Tell us more about that.
Like, what is it?
What was that like for you?
Like, bring us in a little bitdeeper what that process was
like, because, um, I mean, Iknow I went through that journey
a few years ago, but if youcould share a little bit more of
what that process was like foryou, because it it does feel
like taking a huge leap of faith, right.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Yeah, yeah, it was beautiful and it was broken at
the same time.
And the beautiful part was mywife was in such support of me
and she, she's got a faith likewow, I'm just so blessed in my
wife and the relationship shehas with Christ.
(24:01):
And so we had, you know, by thetime the student approached me
for prayer, we really, I think,had I don't know if we were at
that conclusion, because that'snot fair to say we weren't but
you know, we'd had a lot ofdiscussion, a lot of prayer
around it, and so in that momentthen it wasn't so difficult to
(24:23):
decide, said I, did.
We decided that what we would dois, you know, the thing about
teaching that you said is it'shard to leave from a financial
standpoint, right, to walk away,um, but you know, which is
probably not uncommon in a lotof industries, you leave some
things behind, but, um, but theother piece was to leave in the
(24:47):
middle of the year and that justreally didn't feel right and I
didn't want to do that.
And so we actually planned forme to leave in the spring, after
the school year ended.
That was our plan and as Godwould work it and only God he
provided an opportunity at thesemester break, or, you know, in
(25:09):
the spring, to leave earlier,which made it, yeah, what it was
, I guess.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Yeah.
So what was it like on the lastday?
Remember what that was?
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Did you say on the off day.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
On your last day.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Oh, on my last day.
Yeah, it was wild, that's whatit was.
Yeah, a couple weeks before Ileft, actually, I went in to
each of my bands.
I had, I don't know, maybe fouror five different groups at
(25:54):
that time, right, and I reallydon't know what motivated me
other than the obvious God.
But what I did is I took in apicture of my family and I put
it up on the screen.
You know, I used a projectorwhen I taught, right, and so
when my students came in, maybeit was at the end of rehearsal I
(26:14):
don't really remember, but Ishared with them this photo and
I said, hey, you guys probablyrecognize these people because I
had photos around in my officeand stuff, right, and I talked
about family.
I said, you'll, you recognizemy family.
You know, this is a group ofpeople that I really love and
respect.
And then what I did is Ibrought up the seating chart,
(26:36):
which was the best photos that Ihad of my students.
I said I just want to show youanother group of people that I
really love and respect.
I brought up their photos and Ijust reminded them of that in
(27:01):
part, anyway, you know, in termsof the timing, knowing to be
able to go the extra mile, Iguess, in terms of loving, them.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Well, um was good.
Yeah, so you, you're, you'reset to leave.
Your last day happens um, what,like?
What did you have on thehorizon?
Did you know what was coming atthat point?
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Yeah, yeah.
So really what I knew was thatGod was calling me to launch
this ministry.
I knew that it was going to bearound prayer and youth and
really I would say that wasabout it.
And what I did was, forprobably eight weeks I think it
was eight, maybe 10 weeks it waskind of like going back to
(27:44):
seminary.
I just spent my days in prayerand in discernment and it wasn't
, you know, for clarity, Iwasn't making a big effort to
pray or discern.
That's just where God put me.
He just put me in this place ofspending just a ton of time
(28:05):
with him praying and discerningabout, okay, prayer and youth.
But what is this to look like?
And I believe that you know Godspeaks to us all the time.
He's always talking to us.
Sometimes we choose to listenand sometimes we have ears to
hear Right.
And also, or in particular, Iguess I would say, in dreams and
(28:30):
I had a few years prior to thismy wife had finally convinced
me, after much effort on herpart.
She had convinced me to journal,and so I'd been journaling
pretty faithfully for a coupleof years at that point and I
journaled in those.
Well, it was the first sixweeks that I was off of school I
(28:53):
journaled 13 different times,that I woke up with these dreams
that were so clear and sodirect, even things around the
development of the phone app,technical terms that I didn't
even know I thought they werelike you know, there were words
that I understood to be.
(29:14):
You know, I understood the wordlike I don't guitar, right, and
so I wake up with guitar in myhead, except there's a technical
implication to that particularword that I don't understand.
So then I wound up sharing thisstory, right, this dream, with
the techno geeks and they'relike dude, are you kidding me?
You heard that.
(29:34):
And then they told me thetechnical implication of it and
uh, yeah, so there's just a lotof that during that time.
Um, yeah, it's incredible.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
So you're in this, in this what you said about six,
eight week time frame.
You're really pressing in andbeing still and dreams and
getting visions right, right, so, um, it's so beautiful that
you're along the way as wellright, um, what, what was next?
(30:09):
What, what came?
Were you getting print then inyour dreams and in your
journaling time and prayer?
Speaker 3 (30:17):
yeah, yeah.
So it's given a lot of theparts and pieces, I guess I
would say for what it was tolook like.
And look like maybe isn't theright phraseology, maybe a
better way of saying it was thecore vision of q35 ministry.
And I say that because I justthink it's.
(30:39):
It's so very easy in ourhumanness right To start doing
the good things and all kinds ofgood things and lose sight of
what it is that God's called usto do and I'm not saying, I'm an
expert at this but having had areally beautiful seminary
experience that taught me,really trained me well on how to
(31:01):
focus in prayer and discernment, again, that process over that
period of time of praying anddiscerning, really led to giving
me really sharp clarity on thethings you know.
I'd call it the things of Godversus the good things right,
all the other things that 235can and will do someday but
(31:25):
which are not God given right.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
So he gave the name away 235.
Tell us, tell us more about itaway.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
I-35, tell us, tell us more about it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So really it comes from prayer,encouragement and worship.
And then our initial launch wasalong the I-35 corridor, you
know, which is maybe a littlecorny, right, I mean, hey, I'm
(32:00):
not God, go ask him, don't blameme.
But you know, it's interestingbecause it was so obvious to me
through the, you know, throughRevelation, that's what it was
to be.
And then, as I started thinkingabout it, I had lived 20 years
in Albert Lee, you know, righton the south border of Minnesota
, on I-35.
I taught for a decade inFaribault, a little further
(32:23):
north on I-35.
And I live in Owatonna, whichis in between those two, right
on I-35.
And so it's just a naturalplace to launch out and get our
start there and the prayer,encouragement, worship part, as
(32:43):
we've done, our Elevate events,our Day of Prayer we've really
seen that come to fruition inthose events.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
So, yeah, I love that you said I just want to capture
this because as a you know, asa fellow, you know, I'm a
business owner and I I look tohim for names and, um, you know
different things that a businessowner would need.
I look to him for those answers.
So often if somebody questionsit, I'll say, well, just go ask
(33:16):
God.
Then he gave me that.
So I love that you really areleaning into him for those
answers.
You know, it's reallyinteresting.
As you were talking about 35, Iwas just getting a vision of 35
just isn't just in Minnesota,it goes all the way to the
bottom of the US right.
(33:37):
Yeah, that's right.
Is there some?
Speaker 3 (33:44):
excitement today.
Yeah well, I'm really excited.
So we've been a southernMinnesota minister I mean,
that's where we've been for nineyears but I'm super excited as
we have spent the last 18 to 20months really reorganizing,
restructuring, building outsupport, bringing on new team
(34:07):
members, defining roles etcetera, all this stuff to launch
more broadly.
And again, for clarity, I wantto be really careful that and
really direct and saying we donot want to be big or the next
big thing.
What we want to do is take whatGod has used so effectively in
southern Minnesota and give itaway nationwide.
(34:30):
You know, and so I'm superexcited, so interesting that you
bring up that i-35 runs theentire length of the country,
because I'm so excited to do anevent down in texas on the
southern border, you know where35 terminates, wherever that is
right, and then to do an eventup in duluth, um, that we claim
(34:52):
that whole corridor for christright is that cool?
Speaker 1 (34:57):
yeah, yeah I think in pictures a lot, so when people
are talking, I'm constantly.
It's almost like I'm seeing amovie, right, that's amazing.
So tell us a little bit moreabout you, know your events and
you'd never started a ministrybefore.
So what did that look like?
(35:17):
Was it challenging?
Give us the ins and outs ofwhat this looks like.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
But I had, god had really positioned me well in
this, in that I had launched anumber of organizations, a
couple of community bands that Iorganized and launched out in
the first few years and otherthings, I guess, and so I had a
lot of practical experience inthat way, which was helpful.
But the other thing is God puttwo people right in my lap, who
it was kind of like this momwhen I first started teaching.
These two beautiful people camealongside me, grandpa phil um,
(36:24):
I had his four grandchildren inmy band program and phil stepped
in as the treasurer excuse me,the secretary for the ministry,
and he was I don't know, I wouldguess he was, yeah, probably in
his 70s at the time, so fullywise and experienced and I mean
just through and through loverof Christ, and then a good
(36:48):
friend actually of my wife's andmine, dawn, who was the
treasurer as we launched out,and she came with a ton of
business sense and HR backgroundfrom her corporate life and so
so much of the work.
I mean I'm not saying I didn'twork at it, but those two really
(37:10):
did a lot to get the ministrygrounded in terms of you know
all the, all the stuff right,you know the 501 C, three papers
and the, the bylaws and thearticles and the.
You know a statement of faiththat reflects well who we are
and all of that stuff, and sothat's that's kind of how we
(37:33):
started out.
And then both of them after atime, approach me Phil Phil, I
think, first, and then Dawnlater, you know, and they both
just said you know, I think mytime here is done and it was
hard and they were both rightand I knew that when they told
me, I mean, I know they'rediscerning too, and so it was
awesome that season had passedand it was time to move in to
(37:55):
the next, which we did.
So, yeah, that's the initiallaunch, I guess.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Yeah, so tell us a little bit more about you.
Know these.
You said encounter events andlike in between the events, like
what is it that makes you beout there making an impact?
Speaker 3 (38:18):
yeah, yeah, I'll just kind of give a big picture
overview of 235 and what it isthat we do.
And so, to start with ourmission, which is helping our
target audiences middle schooland high school students, and so
the mission is buildingconfidence in prayer, and so God
(38:41):
has given us two specific tools.
I would call them to do that.
One is what we now call ourelevate times of prayer,
encouragement and worship, andthat's what we've actually done.
Are these one day events?
So far, they've all been oneday.
They've been saturdays, fromnine to four, and so I just
(39:03):
walked through kind of what thatlooks like on a saturday yeah,
absolutely yeah, yeah.
So what we've done is, you know,we've gone into a local
community, visited with pastoralstaff primarily other ministry
leaders, like you knowparaministries like Youth for
Christ or Young Life, those kindof ministries that have
(39:26):
traction within the community.
We've shared the idea that Godhas given us the vision for the
day.
And where they bought in right,where God's convicted their
hearts and said, yeah, let's dothis, we've partnered with them
to make those elevate eventshappen.
And where we haven't gottenthat buy-in, then we've accepted
(39:46):
the fact that, you know, it'snot our role to convict people's
hearts, right, our job is toshare the vision and let God
convict hearts.
So we've just gone where God'sled by people saying, yeah, we
want a piece of this, right.
And then, effectively, what itlooks like is, if you picture,
you know, most of our eventshave, most of our Elevate events
(40:09):
have been in churches.
Some have been in, actually inpublic schools.
We've done one of them at asenior center.
But if you picture a churchwith chairs in the auditorium,
if you were to pull those chairsinto circles, you know.
So you've got an auditorium ofcircular tables, right, this is
kind of the ideal.
And you seat four to sixstudents at those tables.
(40:33):
At each table, middle schooland high school students, and
then two table leaders.
One is a 20 something, theother one is what we call an
experienced adult.
You know somebody who is my ageright, an old timer.
And those tables are what Icall our prayer centers, right,
(40:53):
that's where prayer is going tohappen is at those tables.
Then up on the stage is a young, you know, vibrant worship band
that can lead out.
Well, when students come in atthe start of the day, the staff
is already up front on theirfeet in worship.
The band's playing.
Students come in, they check in,they're given a table
(41:14):
assignment, somebody helps themfind their way into the table,
they set their stuff down andthey just jump right into
worship.
So we have 15 20 minutes ofworship to kick off the day.
Then there's a, an intro fromthe front, which I'll actually
come back to, but kind of, youknow the welcome and hey, let's
find our seats at the table.
And then, to get students intoa time of prayer, we have
(41:41):
someone come to the front of theroom.
This is someone that's beenselected ahead of time and has
planned for this.
Right, this isn't a?
Hey, somebody jump up here, butthen this individual gets up
and gives what we refer to as anactivation, which is a term
that you know sometimes is usedin the prayer community, but
(42:04):
others don't know.
But activation really is simplya spark, right, it's a way of
igniting the fire.
(42:28):
And so the way we coach peopleto activate, like you know,
kristen, if you're going toconsider being an activator, I'd
say you know, listen, we've gotthis event happening.
This we hold to is that wedon't talk about praying and we
don't teach about praying.
What we do is we allow time andspace for students to pray.
(42:49):
They learn not by being talkedat, they learn through immersion
, they learn by doing.
And so, kristen, if you want tobe an activator, here's what
I'd ask of you.
You've got five minutes at themost.
If you do it in two, kristen,if you want to be an activator,
here's what I'd ask of you.
You've got five minutes at themost.
If you do it in two, we'll giveyou a bonus, right, but you've
got five minutes to get up, andin those five minutes we want
you to start here.
Start by saying hey, listen,friends, there's a lot of ways
(43:12):
to pray.
I want to share with you oneway that works for me.
It's not the only way, right,and it may not even work for you
, but it's a way that I connectwith God in a really sweet way.
Right, this works for me.
Here's what it sounds like, andhere's here's, you know, kind
of the approach.
(43:32):
Here's what it sounds like.
And then to wrap up with andnow let's try it at our tables.
And then what we ask of ourtable leaders is the best they
can to not do anything, don'ttalk about it, don't reteach it,
just be quiet and let studentsstart praying.
And what we see, what we'veseen in the last nine years
(43:56):
anyway, is normally I would sayprobably eight out of ten tables
a student will step into it,they'll start praying, and once
one student prays, the rest ofthem will step into it.
There'll be a table or twowhere it stalls.
You know, it just isn't goinganywhere.
And we coach our staff.
(44:17):
When it becomes uncomfortable,that's okay, just be quiet,
right, just let it happen.
And when it becomes reallyuncomfortable, well then, don't
talk about it and don't reteachthe activation, but start
praying in the way you know.
Kristen just brought thisactivation Just start praying in
that way to model it and thenagain be quiet and let students
(44:41):
jump in.
And it can be awkward.
It is, and we really challengeour staff to be okay with the
awkwardness that this is thepiece that we so often will not
commit to in prayer and becauseof that we miss the fullness, we
miss the opportunity, studentsmiss the opportunity to really
(45:05):
enter into prayer.
You with me so far.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Yes, You're facilitating space right.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you know I am.
I am just wildly confidentabout what we do, and I'm wildly
confident because it's not myidea there, say that again yeah,
yeah, I'm wildly confidentabout what we do, and that's
(45:35):
because it's not my idea.
This is god's idea.
Now, there's a lot that we doin the day.
You know we start at nineo'clock.
Well, god didn't tell us tostart at nine o'clock.
We feed people lunch.
He didn't tell us to do that.
Right, there's a lot of thingswe do that he didn't tell us to
do, but the one piece that wasso clear was immersion Let
(45:58):
students pray.
And in talking to people nowliterally all over the nation,
and not like I've talked tothousands of people across the
nation, I haven't, but you knowit's very much the norm that if
and in my own personalexperience, you know, I go to a
day- of prayer I go to a prayerconference.
What does that look like?
Well, at nine o'clock, someonegets up and presents for an hour
(46:21):
around.
Here's a way to approach prayer, right, or a way to pray, and
that's beautiful and it'sbuilding and encouraging, right.
And then we have a break at 10o'clock and I go in the hallway
and I find someone to pray with,and at 10 30 I go in and I
listen to an hour or 90 minutesof someone else talking about
(46:42):
how to pray, and it's beautifuland it's good and maybe even, um
, god has asked them to do thatright.
There's no less value to it.
It's just not what he's askedus to do.
He's asked us to instead allowtime and space to pray.
And because I'm rolling, I'mgoing to just keep right on.
(47:03):
When I was a kid, I was adistance runner and I had run.
I mean, I was runningconsistently six to eight miles
a day.
It was kind of my norm, right.
And so you know people whotrain will say you know, I've
gone through the wall, right,and I'd been through the wall
(47:23):
many times.
But then one of my oldersisters called me she's going to
school up in Duluth and shecalled me and said hey, let's
run Grandma's Marathon nextspring.
I'm like, yeah, okay, so Istart training for the marathon.
And now I'm starting to run 12,13, 14, you know, 16 miles at a
(47:44):
goal and I went through thiswall.
I'd never been through beforeChris and I started.
This probably happened for acouple months where I was
running those kinds of distancesand I was aware something was
kind of weird.
But one day I'm out theretrucking along a mile 14 or
(48:05):
whatever, when I became awarethat my feet were moving
underneath of me.
You know, I I had gone throughthis wall to a place where I
wasn't really even aware that myfeet were moving, that I was
actually running.
I was in a different place inmy head.
Right, what we've seen atElevate, not just with our
(48:28):
students but with our staff,many who, I would say, are very
seasoned prayer warriors they'vegone through a wall they've
never been through before,because of a very simple fact
that they have the time and thespace to go deeper than they've
ever gone before and, moreimportantly, to allow holy
spirit to come in through thedoor that they've opened for
(48:51):
them.
Right?
Speaker 1 (48:53):
yes, so incredible.
I I know when, when we were atprayer hub, you, you walked us
through um.
I believe you walked us throughum.
I believe you, you walked usthrough an exercise.
Do you remember what that was?
I remember exactly.
I wish I could remember.
Speaker 3 (49:12):
I kind of think I did Um, did I use the ax acronym?
Speaker 1 (49:19):
I believe so, and you ?
I think you read a scripture.
Speaker 3 (49:24):
Oh, yeah, yeah, no, yeah, we did.
I'm praying through scripture.
Sorry, I'm just I'm actuallyjumping into my documents here.
So, yeah, we prayed throughscripture together that day and
this is we've seen activations,some, some that you know kind of
(49:46):
repeat, you know, not the samepresenters necessarily, but like
using acronyms to to pray Right, I mean, or praying through
scripture.
That's one that that comes upoften, that comes up often, um,
and so, yeah, that's what Ipresented that day was that idea
(50:07):
of just, you know, um, adisciplined and measured way of
taking a small passage ofscripture, um and that's
important that it's short andthen just meditating, which you
know again, you talk about theuh, emotionally charged words in
today's church.
You know, meditate.
Meditate isn't a bad thing,right, it's to just allow God to
speak to us.
I guess is how I would reflecton that and then to really think
(50:32):
, to contemplate and then topray right, and this process of
doing this over and over againwithin the word.
This is a really beautiful wayum to start and it's just so
attainable for someone who maybehasn't um spent a lot of time
in prayer or maybe spent a lotof time in the word.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
So you know what I'm really capturing and catching
here with, with what you'redoing.
You know I feel like our worldis is I mean, I said it before
we even got started I'm liketime goes by so fast.
Um, I like we have to be reallyintentional to make room for
(51:14):
the things that he's called usto do.
So you are facilitating, um,the space for these kids that
you know they're in this worldin this time that is, you know,
a very quick pace world andyou're giving them the space to
really slow down and you knowjust that uncomfortable it is
(51:38):
uncomfortable If you haven'tjust a little bit of my story,
like he had me really learn howto like unwind from grinding.
Um years ago I called it theunwinding process and learning
how to walk again because mylife was in such a quick pace.
So I can imagine a lot of thesekids.
You know whether it's being inschool or you know whatever else
(52:00):
activities they have, sports.
You know there's a lot going on, right, but to really be
intentional and help them, youknow, slow down.
Speaker 3 (52:11):
Yeah.
Be, OK with no, that'sabsolutely right.
And again, what's interesting,especially in the first events
that we did, you know we startedat home, right?
I mean, the very first Elevatewas in Owatonna, where I live,
of course it would be.
That's because that's wherewe've got my wife and I have the
(52:32):
most connections right.
And so we gathered people thatwe knew well and know to be
prayer warriors, and that wasour team right and that was our
team right.
And even among them, you knowthe impact that it had in their
prayer lives in that one day.
It's just amazing, and for mepersonally to have gone through
this, I don't know, I thinkwe've done it 10 or about 10
(52:59):
times, I think now, and theimpact it's had in my life in
that way and a lot of it is justtime and space, is that simple,
I think.
And you know what happens inthat time and space, right, I
guess, not to disregard the moveof the Holy Spirit, because
that's what's happening is, youknow.
I mean, what is prayer if it'snot opening the door of our
heart to allow the Holy Spiritin right, the door of our heart
(53:21):
to allow Holy Spirit in right?
And so when we hold the dooropen for a longer period of time
.
He can do more work really.
So you know I started out withyeah, I'm sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
No, I was just going to ask do you have like a
testimony, maybe one of thesekids that came to an event and
and left um with some some newkeys?
Speaker 3 (53:46):
that was really mind-blowing for you to hear the
testimony on the other sideyeah, yeah, yeah, one of the
interesting things is we don'thave a lot, we haven't captured
um testimony from these youthwho are now adults.
Right, a lot of them have grownup and are adults, but because
(54:09):
when they came to the event theywere youth, they were minors we
didn't collect any contactinformation.
You know, we don't and we won't.
I mean we're not going to dothat, right, I mean, it's their
youth pastor, or sometimes momor dad, that registers them, and
so it's actually this is one ofour tasks and I'll be fully,
(54:32):
fully disclosing here I don'tthink this is going to happen
this year, maybe next year, butwe need to figure out a way to
get back to these, you know,quote kids who are now young
adults and ask them you know,now, five years, a decade later,
what has what has the impact ofthat day been?
But what we know, I mean we'vehad just that.
(54:55):
I say we know, but the eventright, the event, the event
right, the event has had justphenomenal reviews, just
amazingly consistent.
And I don't mean, hey, it was alot of fun and the food was
great.
I mean, yeah, we get that tooright.
Or the worship, you know, andthose are all good things right,
(55:17):
but it's really the things likeyou know, the impact in
particular of um you know, of ofgod in the experience, and some
students, for the very firsttime, have experienced what that
feels like.
And then others who haveexperienced it, you know, are
experiencing it again, arethankful for that.
Some, um, you know it went to adifferent level maybe than what
(55:41):
they'd experienced before.
But so much, I mean probablythe most important things can't
be measured.
I mean, how do we measure theimpact of the Holy Spirit in the
day?
Well, I mean yeah, I mean, wecan sense it because we're there
, right, and people who haveexperienced that know what we're
(56:03):
talking about.
But not so measurable.
But what we can measure theeasiest statistic, if you will
is what's your confidence inprayer?
And so one of the questions weask is well, it's two questions
what was your confidence inprayer at the start of the day
Sliding scale one to ten, right?
What's your confidence inprayer at the start of the day
Sliding scale one to ten, right.
What's your confidence inprayer now?
And students report that, onaverage, their confidence in
(56:28):
prayer increases 40% in that oneday, and one out of three tells
us their confidence in prayerdoubles.
And so this has become one ofmy kind of rallying cries.
You know, hey preacher, heyyouth pastor, hey mom or dad,
youth leader.
If you could send your studentsto a one-day event where this
(56:52):
is what they're reporting youknow, a 40% increase, one out of
three that their confidence inprayer is doubling, wouldn't you
send them?
Because you can do this rightin your church, and we don't
want any money for this, wedon't want any fame, we don't
want to become big, all we wantto do is give it to you.
Do you want it.
Yeah, so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (57:18):
So let's just say somebody we're reaching a a lot
of countries on here.
Let's just say somebody inchina is listening today like
what would it look like for youto share this with others in
other places, beyond the 35corridor?
Speaker 3 (57:36):
yeah, well, the timing could be more beautiful.
You know, christine, you talkedabout at the start that it
feels like this is a long timein coming, but in so many ways,
you know again, god's timing isso perfect, right, I mentioned,
you know, the last 18 to 20months.
We've been very purposefulabout building out our structure
and organization and part ofthat is to intentionally release
(57:59):
Elevate at a broader you know,into a broader space.
I guess I would say as a resultof that, in just the last few
weeks we've all of a suddengotten.
We have four new Elevate eventsjumping up and this one started
I should back up.
It started as a one-day or ayearly event and then we did it
(58:21):
for a couple of years.
We did it twice a year and thenCOVID and then, like everybody,
it seems, things just fellapart and we had a couple of
really dry years and reallywe're just getting back into it
now.
But one of these elevates willhappen in Seattle and we're in
process.
We have essentially builtElevate into a plan in the can.
(58:44):
You know that as a teacherright Plan in the can.
So here's everything you needto make this event happen.
But we also know it's imperfect, and so we're in.
You know, these events in thenext, both this spring and early
summer, will really help ussharpen that.
(59:05):
But by fall I'm confident we'regoing to have a plan that we
can give you know you mentionedChina or wherever right that we
can give them everything theyneed in terms of support
material, training, marketingstuff right, of support material
, training, marketing stuff,right, and they can host this
(59:27):
event locally.
And that sure is our hope, andour goal would be to again to
just give it away whereverpeople want to use it.
So incredible.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (59:37):
Scott, absolutely.
Well, how can people?
Speaker 3 (59:45):
get a hold of you to hear more.
Yeah, probably easiest is justinfo at pew35.org.
Speaker 1 (59:52):
All right, that's good, do you have a website as
well?
Yeah, it's just pew35.org.
Okay, awesome, yeah, I'll havethis information notes for
everybody to access and, um, soat the end of every podcast
episode, or, as the lord and Icall it, a seed cast, um, I like
(01:00:14):
the guests who just think ofone person putting in today and
do you have anything else thatyou would want to share and
speak over this one, and thenwould you pray us out today.
Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
Yeah, and I apologize .
You cut out for just a momentthere.
Could you ask one more timewhat it is?
Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
Well, I see you have a question here.
Yes, you are absolutely open tosharing about your app.
Please do that.
Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
Yeah, yeah, thank you .
Well, first of all, I'll justwrap up real quickly with
Elevate.
You know the format.
We start out in worship, as Idescribed.
We move to the tables, we havean activation and spend 30 to 40
minutes in prayer right.
Then it's worship time again.
So everybody's up on their feetup front by the stage.
We spend 15 to 20 minutes inworship and then it's back to
(01:01:02):
the tables for 30 to 40 minutesin prayer.
That's the model for the day.
So, just so, that's out therethe other piece.
So I said, god gave us two toolsto help build confidence in
prayer.
One is Elevate, the other isthe Encouraging Prayer phone app
, and that phone app is in betatesting right now and content is
(01:01:27):
being built out for it.
This app, again, it's not goingto be the next great thing.
It's not going to be all that.
It's going to be what God askedus to build.
And what he asked us to build isan app that has two functions,
only two things.
There'll be a lot more, but thetwo things that God asked of us
is that it connects studentsone-on-one, based on their age,
(01:01:49):
their gender and their walk, soyou know their perceived
relationship with Christ right,and that it will send content to
students based on those samecriteria.
And so you know, I think ofmyself back in my junior high
days, when I was reading theword but not being discipled,
right.
But if I had the EncouragingPrayer phone app, what I would
(01:02:10):
have done is I would haveclicked the button to say I want
a prayer partner, andEncouraging Prayer would have
said okay, take this littleintake survey to help us
understand where you're at inyour walk.
And based on that, it wouldhave connected me, a middle
school boy who was early in hiswalk, with another boy who was
(01:02:31):
in middle school who was earlyin his walk one on one to pray
for each other.
Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
Oh, I love that, that's one piece, right.
Speaker 3 (01:02:42):
And then the other thing is there's so much great
biblical content out there nowfor kids to consume, and so if
they're trying to figure out,you know, things around gender
or identity or sexuality, theycan find that, of course, the
problem is there's so much thatis not biblical living in the
same space, and so whatEncouraging Prayer will do
(01:03:05):
essentially is sort that andsend students biblically sound
content.
That's not only so, let's say,identity, right, there's a lot
of content that's consumable formiddle school and high school
kids.
But then there's some contentthat it's just too much for
middle schoolers to consume,right.
(01:03:27):
Well, the app will tag that, soit's not sent to middle
schoolers, it'll be sentdirectly to middle schoolers, so
that it's a good match.
So that's the EncouragingPrayer app.
Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
We believe it'll launch the end of this year and
we're super excited to see whatGod does.
Speaker 3 (01:03:55):
with that I mean we don't know.
Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
We don't know what he's going to do other than
build confidence in prayer,because that's what he's asked
us to do.
The app launches.
Um, you know, we can always addthe app information to the show
notes later on, because this,this podcast, will be around for
many years.
This episode will be so I'm veryexcited for all he's doing in
and through you and um.
I know you mentioned that.
I kind of went out for a moment.
(01:04:16):
But, um, to wrap up, one of thethings I like the podcast
guests to do or, like I say,it's a seed cast um is for you
to to just really get a visionof the one that's listening in
today.
And is there anything else thatyou'd want to speak over the
one, and would you pray us outtoday?
Speaker 3 (01:04:34):
Yeah, yeah.
I would just go back to theimpact that four 10-year-olds
(01:04:56):
had in my life, and again, I'mconfident that each of them
would say that wasn't them, thatwas God, and there's some truth
to that.
And yet they were obedient toliving on mission.
They were salt and light andbecause of that it changed my
life.
And so I would just encouragethe one, the one be bold in how
(01:05:21):
you live.
You know, it's not alwaysproselytizing, right, it's not
always the big event, it'sloving other people.
Well, you know, he said right,what's the greatest commandment?
And the second is like thefirst.
He said right, you know, loveone another.
Not only love one another, butdon't love them like they love
(01:05:44):
you.
Love them like I have firstloved you, right, you know, love
one another, not only love oneanother, but don't love them
like they love you.
Love them like I have firstloved you, right.
Don't expect anything in return.
Don't go into it withexpectation.
Love them not because you expectanything or because, yeah, you
want anything, right, right, orbecause they've already loved
you.
Love them because it's whatI've called you to do and that's
(01:06:07):
what these 10, you know, these,uh, poor 10 year olds did.
They just love people.
Well, um, so, if you're the one, be bold in how you love people
.
Don't let um, don't be afraidto let people know how much you
love them, in whatever words orwhatever ways you may choose to
do that, that they might knowwho love is our friend, jesus
(01:06:31):
and Father.
With that, I just I give thanksand praise for these little
ones who you chose to use tochange my life, god.
I just pray a sweet blessing oneach of them as they're now
walking out their young adultlives.
God, I pray that they truly willcontinue to be salt and light
and have great impact for yourkingdom.
(01:06:53):
God, I thank you for all whohave been involved in launching
235 and for the great supportwe've had.
God, I thank you, too, foreverybody listening in today.
For those who, maybe, arelaunching out in another
direction, in a way that God hascalled them, I just pray, lord,
(01:07:13):
that you give them good clarityand you give them commitment,
lord, a real steadfastness tostay with it and to continue
praying and discerning untilthey know truly, lord, what it
is that you've called them to,that they do something that's of
(01:07:33):
God and not that's just greator good.
And, father, I just thank youand praise you for this time
today and I ask your blessing onnew wings and Kristen as she
continues to do what she does InJesus' name.
Amen.
Speaker 1 (01:07:48):
Thank you, Pat.
It's been a joy to have you ontoday and thank you for being a
brave voice who's setting othersfree.
I'm going to close with theHope Unlocked anchoring verse,
which is may the God of hopefill you with all joy and peace,
and believing that by the powerof the Holy Spirit, you may
abound in hope.
That's Romans 15, 13.
So thank you again, Pat.
(01:08:10):
As I mentioned, I will have allof his contact information in
the show notes and I will beback with another episode next
week.
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:08:19):
Thanks, my friend, bye, bye.
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