October 14, 2023 • 39 mins
In this episode, Eleanor and Jody hear from Gail Whitlow, Founder of the Ancestral Voices Healing Centre (near Brantford, Ontario). Gail talks about the importance of following energy therapies, medicines plus healing and sustainable practices from our spiritual ancestors.Reconciling Humanity is a regular program on Skyward TV and Hopeful Radio hosted by Eleanor Hayward with co-host Jody Harbour.You can add Skyward TV to Roku, Amazon Fire TV and Google TV, or watch on the web at: https://skywardtv.com
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Episode Transcript
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Hello, welcome to Reconciling Humanity, streaming on Skyward TV and Hopeful Radio.
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I'm your host Eleanor Hayward and welcome to my co-host Jodi Harbour.
And today our guest is Gail Whitlow from Ancestral Voices, offering a brief land acknowledgement,
acknowledging the past and current stewards of this land, the Haudenosaunee Wendat here
on Ottawa and around peoples.
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We're surrounding the Great Lakes.
I'm here today from the Burlington area, which is near between Toronto and Niagara Falls.
And acknowledging that our territory is subject to the Dish with One Spoon Wampum Belt Covenant,
which is an agreement to peaceably share and care for the region, honouring the four directions,
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the land, the waters, the animals and ancestors that walk before us.
I am grateful to our harvest season.
Here we are in the fall of 2023 and the birds and the animals that make life so much more
interesting.
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We acknowledge and thank the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation for sharing their
traditional territory with us.
Blessed be.
So thank you so much.
I'm a holistic facilitator and really grateful to Jodi Harbour, who is one of the founders
of Grandmother's Voice as well as Gail.
Jodi, would you like to share with us how you met Gail?
(01:43):
Hey, good morning.
It may not be morning to others that are watching it throughout the day.
So good day to everyone who will be joining us at some point in the future from this moment.
Aaskeno, Jodi Niigasso, my great grandmother was of the Cayuga Nation, Six Nations of the
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Grand River Territory on my father's side and on my mom's side, I'm Romanian and English.
And this is we're in a really great time.
Finding my roots has been a life journey for me.
I've always known I was Indigenous.
And when I really dug my heart into finding my roots and understanding what it means to
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be an urban Indigenous woman, I stumbled upon Gail Whitlow's place in space on Six Nations,
Ancestral Voices.
And I was guided to her centre there, where there was a genealogy group working out of
the back of her centre.
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And the first day I walked into that space, she has this beautiful tree that's painted
that was painted on our wall there.
And right when I entered that space that day, it was the voice I heard was welcome home.
That was the message I heard.
And it was the smell of my father and just like everything that I remembered of the stories
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he shared with me.
And I just I did, I felt like I was home.
And so, you know, I met through that genealogy group, I met grandmother Renee Thomas Hill
and Gail and it was like I was scooped up by these amazing women that invited me to
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travel with them.
And that's and I just that space is beautiful, not just to me.
I know many people have walked through that centre and Gail actually, I remember I met
so many people just being in that space for whether I'd be buying, you know, picking up
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my medicines or whatnot, it just seems to be that that place that people meet.
And I'm just honoured to be doing this with you, Eleanor.
You know, this has been a really fun journey to begin together through reconciliation and
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Gail has been one of those women that has been doing reconciliation, I think, as long
as she's been around, I think doing this healing work.
So now Gail for being with us and I love you and appreciate all of the support that you've
given me as an urban Indigenous woman, helping me connect to my truth and my purpose.
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So yeah, tell us about your space and place that you hang out every day where people join
and meet you.
Come for healing.
Well, hello everyone.
I am from Six Nations of the Grand River Territory, Mohawk Nation and Bear Clan.
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And wow, it's been such an interesting life, very hard but interesting life because, you
know, you can't find humility if you have to get humility in one way and that is through
your life experiences.
And so it's that what kind of guided me to, I guess, manifest everything that's manifested
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so far, but it's also part of a much bigger dream.
And I rely on my visions and I rely on, you know, those spiritual ancestors that run through
our bloodlines that help us to guide our thoughts and our dreams.
And so I have to listen and I have to be aware that when I put it out there, the door opens,
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that's a positive thing.
So well, just to, you know, I guess just to start, for years and years, I had wanted to
establish something that many people could come in no matter what walk of life, no matter
what your religion or that or what, no matter what the colour of your skin, no matter who
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you were, you could come and then you could, you know, talk and you could maybe find something
that will help guide you on your journey to have a healthy impact on not only you, your
community, but the seven generations coming.
So anytime that we establish, I guess, framework, the framework is always around those seven
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generations that are coming in.
And so I have five children and I have 18 grandchildren and, you know, life is going
to continue.
My bloodline is going to continue in a powerful way.
And so I have to think like, what does that life look like for these coming faces and
not just my grandchildren, but I mean, the grandchildren of the world, like, what can
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we do?
What do we have to do in order to break down barriers?
So I was lucky enough to live in the, I guess, Buffalo and those areas during my younger
years.
And I would say I'm lucky because a lot of times people that were still here at Six
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Nations, they ended up in the residential schools still, you know, that residential
school didn't close until 69 and, or actually 90 something was the actual closing of that
building.
But in 69, those were my vulnerable years, 58 to 68.
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And I very well could have ended up in the residential school had my parents not done
what they did during that time.
So I really look back and I'm thinking, wow, how lucky was I, you know, that I had that
opportunity to grow and be nurtured by my parents.
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So when we look at, you know, movement from there, I always wanted, I always felt a strong
connection to healing, like always.
I remember as a young person and being Bear Clan, that's innately within us.
So every clan has a job to do.
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And so if you're Bear Clan, then your job is in that healing field.
So I guess, you know, that kind of was like, eating that.
I mean, it doesn't matter what nationality you are.
You know, we are all part of that creation.
We are all part of the earth.
And as Dennis Winnegold would say, we are land, we are medicine, because it is so true.
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We are land and we are medicine.
So that runs so strong within each and every person, no matter what color of your skin,
no matter your walk of life.
So saying that, I took a look at, you know, what can I do?
So I loved to work with, you know, reflexology and, you know, different energy therapies,
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because I knew I could do them and I knew I could do them well.
And when I was walking my spiritual path, you know, I took, I did a lot as far as, you
know, fasting and all of those different humbling experiences that make you really connect to
the land.
So I knew that I had to develop the gifts that I knew I could develop.
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And then I wanted to share, I wanted to share these gifts.
So Ancestral Voices was actually created because of that desire to help others and to show
that there are more opportunities out there than you may think.
So when we look at our backyards, some people see weeds, but I see, oh my gosh, there's
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arrow, there's plantain.
Oh, there's, you know, all of these different beautiful medicines out there.
And you watch them grow and you can feel the energy of, you know, what they're bringing.
And then you can see all the colors and then you can see the routine that our plant world
experiences.
And so it's those kinds of things that I wanted to share, because at some point, we
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have to, and we talked a little bit about what is colonization.
At some point, we have to rethink what it is that our ancestors are trying to bring
back to us.
And so the number of people who do not know how to walk in the field and see those medicines
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and know what they're used for, the amount of people that have the desire to learn is
tremendous.
And we all should learn.
So that's kind of where that came from, is wanting to share, hey, take responsibility
for your own health by relearning what our ancestors left, you know, that knowledge that
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that ancestors left us with, because sometimes they can take us out and put us into a system,
but something doesn't change within us.
And we have that strong desire to develop whatever that may be.
So that's kind of because of other dreams and other visions, I don't have time to go
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into all of those ancestral voices was created.
But ancestral voices was a step because my vision was bigger than that.
And my vision was about a healing community.
So an off-grid healing community where we have everything that we need to survive, because
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it's scary if you watch TV, it's scary if you're a young person growing up right now,
because of everything that you see and you hear and you feel.
And it's kind of scary.
So what can be created that is going to give us kind of that sense of calm and peace that
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we're looking for.
So the stepping stone from ancestral voices is a project I call Land of the Dancing Deer,
because basically it's an off-grid healing center, a healing site, but it's more than
that, it's also working with technology, our old healing practices, our old healing ways,
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our old healing knowledge, and combining it into something that is definitely unique.
I can honestly say, in all the projects that are out there, I do not see something that
I'm seeing when I see the Land of the Dancing Deer.
So we're working on manifesting that beautiful community within the community.
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So when we look at that process, I have to go way back in time, because how did I get
to the place where I could envision that?
And it all started back in the 80s.
So there was a group of us, we got together and we called ourselves the Rekwa women's
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circle.
And we did things that were beyond the scope of other people's normal.
We brought in speakers, we brought in, I guess, thoughts and feelings that were very old,
you know, very, very, I guess, very ancient in our way, but had been forgotten for years.
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And so people kind of didn't like the thought that we were out there and we were doing that.
And so we learned to work through that and just close our eyes because we were working
spiritually, you know, from another lens.
And so that was when I was still kind of having my children during that time.
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And so we kind of branched off, we did a lot of really powerful, good work.
And then we shifted, or I shifted.
So we came back together, you know, years later.
And one of the things, one of the groups that we created at that time was Grandmother's
Circle of the Earth.
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And why we created Grandmother's Circle of the Earth was because we were traveling, we
were being kind of mentored by this beautiful, beautiful elder from the Southwest.
And this beautiful elder had kind of been guiding us.
And if you work with elders, you know, you don't get the full story and the full picture,
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you get a paragraph or you get, you know, a thought.
And it's up to you to manifest that thought.
So we had some time that we were able to spend working with him, and then he wasn't here
anymore.
And so we had to take those concepts and we had to go, how do we continue this work?
What do we do to continue this work?
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And the concept of Grandmother's Circle evolved.
So what Grandmother's Circle then did was it took us around the world.
So we went to different places around the world and we weren't to change anything as
we were to do a share and to plant seeds.
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And so that's what we did.
So we did that in many different countries.
And it was really interesting because we would go and then, you know, we would do these workshops
and it was very busy for us because, you know, we went from one, two, three, four, five real
quick.
And so we were kind of like, wow, really busy doing that.
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But it paid off because in Denmark now, there's over 24 women's circles or Grandmother's Circles.
And it was all about what do you need in your community?
So for instance, if you're a gardener and you see that we need to be planting more food,
well, get a bunch of, you know, grandmothers together and talk about how you do that and
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share it with younger people and create that garden.
I mean, it's that simple because once you start to work together and you start to create,
then something's working through you.
So it's that ancestral energy that's moving through you and it's creating more than you
know.
So it could be about anything.
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What does your community need and who can you get to, you know, organize it?
And so that's what it was and it's been quite successful.
We have circles everywhere in Africa and Denmark, England, like just everywhere.
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And so our only job then was to plant that seed and we're not to go and we're not to
take any control or ownership over anything like that.
We simply plant that seed and let them run with it.
And so that's how we were able to take that really important teaching that we got and
that instruction that we got and we were able to transform it.
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So moving forward then, you know, life happens and so we, this beautiful Jodi Harbor came
into our lives and we went on some journeys and next thing you know, you know, those seeds
are also the seeds of grandmother's voice.
I mean, Jodi listened to us, participated with us and we all came up with like, hey,
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let's try this.
And so Jodi, she has a beautiful, expansive mind, beautiful, expansive mind and she'll
take that thought and she'll say, you know what, it can be this, this, this, this, this
and next thing you know, it's this, this, this, this and this.
And so the work of the grandmothers continues because of the value in listening to that
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grandmother's wisdom or that ancient wisdom and finding a place where we're able to share.
So it's all about sharing.
It's all about caring.
It's all about finding, I guess, a response to everything that, you know, you're being
prompted to do in your lifetime.
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So it's like, how do you move forward?
So you take those visions and you create those visions and you, and then you create another
vision and you enhance the vision and, and, and again, you have to have that, well, what
are we doing this for?
And so again, it's for those seven generations coming and, and it's to help with elevating
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the vibrational energy of the land or of the earth because I remember back in, I don't
know, well, I guess the eighties.
So the world was supposed to end way back and I think it was 90 something.
The world was supposed to end and there's a group of people who live high up in the
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mountains in South America.
And so these people, the world didn't end.
And so they sent out their mamos, they call them, in order to see, well, we don't see
the light.
So how come the world didn't end?
And so they sent out their, their mamos to different places and, and they wanted to see
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what they saw and personally, you know, at that point I had had children, but I wasn't
with the father of these children.
And I remember that one of the mamos, they speak heart to heart language.
So even though they, they, they know how to speak language, they, they weren't, they
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more intensify their thoughts on what's coming from the heart.
And I remember them looking at my son and they were asking, you know, your son is sad,
you know, what is going on?
So when I mentioned that, that he was without his father, they could see that hurt and pain.
So they were, they were in a place of feeling and experience the hurt and pain that we were
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all carrying too, from being out of this residential school era.
And you know, coming into B who, who were becoming now, but they were, they were kind
of like in that grasp of, wow, people are carrying so much hurt and pain.
And so, so they traveled, they traveled throughout and then they would, you know, go back home
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and then they would sit way on top of the mountain.
They called themselves the Elder Brothers.
And actually we were at a gathering just recently in April and the Mamos gave us a message,
you know, for the world.
And so I will share that at another time, but it was a message that they have created.
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And the only reason, the only thing that they requested though, is that it not be on social
media because what happens when it goes on social media, it takes the energy out of the,
out of the words.
So to share that message, it has to be like maybe at a gathering where it's shared, but
it's not, it's not put in any form or it's like on the, on the social media.
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And that was at their request.
So I mean, so we have a lot of, I guess, energy in making the world a better place.
And so the more that we collectively do, the more that we collectively share as groups,
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as individuals, as, you know, collectives of people who are in that caring, sharing
spirit, the more powerful that the world can become.
And so we're seeing through our prophecies that we're in a time that was forecast.
We're in a time where the giants that be are starting to falter.
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You know, they've been giants for like 5,000 years and all giants have to fall too.
And so those political giants aren't having the clout and they're starting, they're trying
to fight for that clout again so that they can keep that power.
But that power isn't serving the world to the best of its ability.
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So because of that, then there has to be some type of a change.
So we're being told, and we really have to listen to this, we're being told that we have
to make those changes and we have to make those changes now.
So we have to look at food sustainability.
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What is the, what is our basic needs?
And how are we going to use those basic needs to create food security?
I would say out of all the things that they can do, right now it's food security that
is the main.
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And if you look at those shelves in the supermarkets, it disturbs me to see that there are a lot
of empty shelves.
You know, things that we used to take for granted aren't on those shelves anymore.
Things are happening.
The whole world economy is based on sharing and that's faltering.
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We're not able to get all of those products that we used to get.
So we're having to change something as well.
So we have to go back to creating those gardens.
We have to go back to working together in a more sustainable way on all levels if we're
going to succeed as people.
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So these are just things that everyone probably knows, but we really have to look at the extent
of what we don't know.
And we have to make efforts to be more kind and more respectful to the land, more kind
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and respectful to the medicines.
How do we create those relationships within nature?
How do we create those relationships within organizations so that they're healthy?
And so those are things that I guess we've been preparing for for many generations.
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You know, those are the teachings that come through spiritually and they're saying, smoke
your pipes, do your ceremonies, look at what you need to look at and begin.
Because if you don't begin now, we're going to be in that doomsday frame of mind and we
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don't want to go there.
So I've been talking for quite a long time, so I guess it's time to put it back.
And is there any other questions or any other things that you would like to add?
Thank you so much, Gail.
There was so much juiciness in there and really appreciate your expertise and your efforts
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with Ancestral Voices.
I was in there a few weeks ago and loved to see the different herbs and medicines and
the crystals that you had there.
Didn't get to see your healing space, but I understand you do like private practice
there as well.
And your work with the Land of the Dancing Deer and the grandmother's circles as well
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and how that has morphed and evolved into grandmother's voice.
So I just wanted to clarify, what did you mean by We Are the Medicine?
I've heard that before and I get that.
But for our listeners who are tuning in to learn about the spiritual approach to mental
wellness, our focus is like truth and reconciliation towards decolonizing concept.
And you were asking earlier, like, what is decolonization?
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I've heard it said one reflection of it is a re-indigenization.
Like you said, coming back to the land, that the land is medicine, that we are medicine.
What do you mean by that?
Well exactly that.
I mean, the words say it all.
So it's like that heartbeat.
So we are the heartbeat of something.
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We have that essence of that heartbeat within every breath that we take, our heart is boom,
boom, boom.
And so when we connect to the drum that way, something stimulates within our whole concept
of who we are.
So when we talk about we are land, we are medicine, we're not disconnected from the
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land.
So what I mean by that is, you know, our healing comes from the land.
Our healing comes from the voices of the land.
It comes from the voices of the wind.
It comes from the healing powers of the water.
It comes from the fact that we are everything and everything is us.
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So we can't disconnect and we can't just be water.
We can't just be land.
We can't just be air.
We can't just be fire because we need all of that in order to be whole.
And if one of those aspects is out of balance, boom, we have fires, boom, we have hurricanes.
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You know, when we have different things happening and we're out of balance, that's what happens.
So Dennis coined that we are land, we are medicine because in order to be that power,
in order to be that strength, we have to know that we are all connected.
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And so it comes from within.
It doesn't come from any exterior source.
It comes from that altar that we create for ourselves.
And so that altar is a very special and a sacred healing space.
And where it comes from is being able to be in tune to the forest, being able to be in
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tune with the medicines, being able to be in tune with the birds, being able to be in
tune with what is our intuition, what is our heart trying to put out there, you know.
And so the more that we connect it, and so that means we are not connected from anyone.
So we're here on this platform right now.
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We're connecting in that way together.
But as it goes out there, we're connecting in that way again.
So we have to take that into consideration that in order to be a strong, powerful medicine,
we have to be together.
Sometimes we don't put enough into our medicine in order to make us strong.
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And we allow the health sciences are different things.
We allow them to be our ear.
And then that's not always the best way because we have to say, you know, okay, what makes
me who I am?
What makes you who you are?
You know, how can we create something that has a healthy relationship to everything around
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us?
So yeah, so I mean, that's kind of like an easy way to say we are land, we are medicine,
because we walk on the land.
Every step we take is an imprint.
And we leave imprints, and we also step into the imprints of those that have walked before
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us.
So again, that's our connection to everything that is.
And sometimes we look at the fact that, you know, some people are born in another land.
And so their parents are born in the land and they're born here on this beautiful land.
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So they become where they are born.
You know, the land speaks to them, their DNA is here, they become part of the essence of
the space.
And so what does that mean?
You know, that means that collectively, we're all one.
And we are the land and we are the medicine.
So we have to look at it that way.
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And we have to walk our walk in that direction.
So kind of like a big answer.
Speaking my language, I suppose the colonized mindset that I was raised with as a settler
descendant, is that there seems to be this mindset of entitlements, that there's this
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extractive and exploitative quality to life.
And it's like getting what you can while you can.
And there's very little respect or reverence for the land and for the plants.
And the animals and offering that gratitude and having that humility that we're all connected.
I feel like is what is missing in that disconnect, which is manifesting as a cultural trauma
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of mental illness and people feeling really separate and isolated and alone.
So I hear what you're saying and coming together in community and communing with the land and
the elements and reconnecting and grounding in our bodies and allowing our ancestors to
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offer us their wisdom and healing and reconnecting to our souls.
So really grateful for your perspective there, Gail.
Jodi, anything to add?
Yeah, well, amazing.
I always love to hear Gail speak, especially when she just speaks from that place of, I
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say channeling, considering this is what she does, is forever in every space sharing her
knowledge in such an open way, which is the way of these elders and grandmas who have
been just walking their path and whoever they meet along the way, they just walk with them.
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And they always invite people in.
And I've been so grateful to know them and to have been shared this knowledge.
I'm sitting and she's speaking to my spirit because that was how I connected myself was
with the land and this grandmother cedar that had this many histories.
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And I could see the faces of the women and then there they were.
So everything that she says resonates with my spirit.
And she had mentioned Dennis Wendigo a couple of times, and this is a gentleman, an elder.
Well, I don't know if he likes to be referred to as an elder, but he shares knowledge with
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us.
And we call him, well, I just call him Dennis.
But the day that I met him and saw him sharing knowledge and transferring knowledge, it was
like this message was like, that's the guy.
He's going to walk with us and share knowledge from this ancient wisdom that he's revitalized
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in his practice.
He's healed himself and now he wants to share with whoever will listen how all of this that
Gail spoke about can be, you can tap into this knowledge to heal the history that has
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affected all of us, the history of the development of this country, which is what you, all that
you spoke about Eleanor is a taught behavior by our surroundings and our systems of oppression,
our systems that have been, were designed to create this nation.
And now we've woken up, we're awake and these grandmas have been doing reconciliation for
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decades and probably centuries.
You know, if we look at the ones that came before Gail and came before myself, and so
I'm just really grateful that I'm a part of this circle and know that it is my responsibility
to make this circle accessible to surround these grandmas and support the work that they
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continue to do because they do this work, they travel across the world.
And they find resources to get them there.
But now we're in a time where we can actually support their travel and maybe this is what
this circle and these opportunities to share their voices is our responsibility is to help
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them find resources to get them to these places that are calling for healing and for circles.
So very grateful to them for guiding me.
And then also, you know, the guidance for us to meet Eleanor to start something like
this that is important for community to be able to listen to and connect with and then
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just to figure out what's next for them.
So thank you, Gail.
Niawa, I love you.
And I love you too.
Thank you, Gail.
Can you tell people your best website that they can find more information about your
work?
Well, okay.
So ancestralvoices.ca is for my visit, I guess my practice and my storefront.
(37:18):
And Land of the Dancing Deer is being, I guess, rehashed.
It's being redone.
And so it's there right now, but we're shifting and changing it around.
So and it is Land of the Dancing Deer.
That's the website.
So yeah, you can find information on both of those.
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And of course, if anyone is willing to donate and find out more about the project, that's
always a value too, because, you know, it's a, I guess it's a family affair, you know,
to put energy into something that is going to value our larger families as well, families
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that need to come to the space.
So yeah.
I think Grandmother's Voice has a donation.
Do you have that on your website yet?
Or maybe not.
But I mean, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So thank you.
Yeah, I'll reach out to Grandmother's Voice.
(38:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And follow up because we're doing a lot of stuff, you know, moving forward.
So yeah, stay connected.
Yeah, because we're not separate from Ancestral Voices, Land of the Dancing Deer and Grandmother's
Voice.
I mean, that's one big circle.
So yeah, so you can kind of get information you need through Grandmother's Voice platform
(38:50):
as well.
Beautiful.
Thank you both so much for your time and your energy.
Really grateful for this.
And thanks again to Skyward TV and Hopeful Radio.
Thank you to our listener.
And tune in and give us your feedback.
Thank you so much.
Take care.
Bye bye.
Bye everyone.
Hello, welcome to Reconciling Humanity, streaming on Skyward TV and Hopeful Radio.
(00:17):
I'm your host Eleanor Hayward and welcome to my co-host Jodi Harbour.
And today our guest is Gail Whitlow from Ancestral Voices, offering a brief land acknowledgement,
acknowledging the past and current stewards of this land, the Haudenosaunee Wendat here
on Ottawa and around peoples.
(00:39):
We're surrounding the Great Lakes.
I'm here today from the Burlington area, which is near between Toronto and Niagara Falls.
And acknowledging that our territory is subject to the Dish with One Spoon Wampum Belt Covenant,
which is an agreement to peaceably share and care for the region, honouring the four directions,
(01:01):
the land, the waters, the animals and ancestors that walk before us.
I am grateful to our harvest season.
Here we are in the fall of 2023 and the birds and the animals that make life so much more
interesting.
(01:22):
We acknowledge and thank the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation for sharing their
traditional territory with us.
Blessed be.
So thank you so much.
I'm a holistic facilitator and really grateful to Jodi Harbour, who is one of the founders
of Grandmother's Voice as well as Gail.
Jodi, would you like to share with us how you met Gail?
(01:43):
Hey, good morning.
It may not be morning to others that are watching it throughout the day.
So good day to everyone who will be joining us at some point in the future from this moment.
Aaskeno, Jodi Niigasso, my great grandmother was of the Cayuga Nation, Six Nations of the
(02:05):
Grand River Territory on my father's side and on my mom's side, I'm Romanian and English.
And this is we're in a really great time.
Finding my roots has been a life journey for me.
I've always known I was Indigenous.
And when I really dug my heart into finding my roots and understanding what it means to
(02:32):
be an urban Indigenous woman, I stumbled upon Gail Whitlow's place in space on Six Nations,
Ancestral Voices.
And I was guided to her centre there, where there was a genealogy group working out of
the back of her centre.
(02:55):
And the first day I walked into that space, she has this beautiful tree that's painted
that was painted on our wall there.
And right when I entered that space that day, it was the voice I heard was welcome home.
That was the message I heard.
And it was the smell of my father and just like everything that I remembered of the stories
(03:23):
he shared with me.
And I just I did, I felt like I was home.
And so, you know, I met through that genealogy group, I met grandmother Renee Thomas Hill
and Gail and it was like I was scooped up by these amazing women that invited me to
(03:44):
travel with them.
And that's and I just that space is beautiful, not just to me.
I know many people have walked through that centre and Gail actually, I remember I met
so many people just being in that space for whether I'd be buying, you know, picking up
(04:04):
my medicines or whatnot, it just seems to be that that place that people meet.
And I'm just honoured to be doing this with you, Eleanor.
You know, this has been a really fun journey to begin together through reconciliation and
(04:25):
Gail has been one of those women that has been doing reconciliation, I think, as long
as she's been around, I think doing this healing work.
So now Gail for being with us and I love you and appreciate all of the support that you've
given me as an urban Indigenous woman, helping me connect to my truth and my purpose.
(04:50):
So yeah, tell us about your space and place that you hang out every day where people join
and meet you.
Come for healing.
Well, hello everyone.
I am from Six Nations of the Grand River Territory, Mohawk Nation and Bear Clan.
(05:14):
And wow, it's been such an interesting life, very hard but interesting life because, you
know, you can't find humility if you have to get humility in one way and that is through
your life experiences.
And so it's that what kind of guided me to, I guess, manifest everything that's manifested
(05:39):
so far, but it's also part of a much bigger dream.
And I rely on my visions and I rely on, you know, those spiritual ancestors that run through
our bloodlines that help us to guide our thoughts and our dreams.
And so I have to listen and I have to be aware that when I put it out there, the door opens,
(06:05):
that's a positive thing.
So well, just to, you know, I guess just to start, for years and years, I had wanted to
establish something that many people could come in no matter what walk of life, no matter
what your religion or that or what, no matter what the colour of your skin, no matter who
(06:27):
you were, you could come and then you could, you know, talk and you could maybe find something
that will help guide you on your journey to have a healthy impact on not only you, your
community, but the seven generations coming.
So anytime that we establish, I guess, framework, the framework is always around those seven
(06:51):
generations that are coming in.
And so I have five children and I have 18 grandchildren and, you know, life is going
to continue.
My bloodline is going to continue in a powerful way.
And so I have to think like, what does that life look like for these coming faces and
not just my grandchildren, but I mean, the grandchildren of the world, like, what can
(07:16):
we do?
What do we have to do in order to break down barriers?
So I was lucky enough to live in the, I guess, Buffalo and those areas during my younger
years.
And I would say I'm lucky because a lot of times people that were still here at Six
(07:37):
Nations, they ended up in the residential schools still, you know, that residential
school didn't close until 69 and, or actually 90 something was the actual closing of that
building.
But in 69, those were my vulnerable years, 58 to 68.
(07:58):
And I very well could have ended up in the residential school had my parents not done
what they did during that time.
So I really look back and I'm thinking, wow, how lucky was I, you know, that I had that
opportunity to grow and be nurtured by my parents.
(08:20):
So when we look at, you know, movement from there, I always wanted, I always felt a strong
connection to healing, like always.
I remember as a young person and being Bear Clan, that's innately within us.
So every clan has a job to do.
(08:43):
And so if you're Bear Clan, then your job is in that healing field.
So I guess, you know, that kind of was like, eating that.
I mean, it doesn't matter what nationality you are.
You know, we are all part of that creation.
We are all part of the earth.
And as Dennis Winnegold would say, we are land, we are medicine, because it is so true.
(09:05):
We are land and we are medicine.
So that runs so strong within each and every person, no matter what color of your skin,
no matter your walk of life.
So saying that, I took a look at, you know, what can I do?
So I loved to work with, you know, reflexology and, you know, different energy therapies,
(09:33):
because I knew I could do them and I knew I could do them well.
And when I was walking my spiritual path, you know, I took, I did a lot as far as, you
know, fasting and all of those different humbling experiences that make you really connect to
the land.
So I knew that I had to develop the gifts that I knew I could develop.
(09:58):
And then I wanted to share, I wanted to share these gifts.
So Ancestral Voices was actually created because of that desire to help others and to show
that there are more opportunities out there than you may think.
So when we look at our backyards, some people see weeds, but I see, oh my gosh, there's
(10:20):
arrow, there's plantain.
Oh, there's, you know, all of these different beautiful medicines out there.
And you watch them grow and you can feel the energy of, you know, what they're bringing.
And then you can see all the colors and then you can see the routine that our plant world
experiences.
And so it's those kinds of things that I wanted to share, because at some point, we
(10:43):
have to, and we talked a little bit about what is colonization.
At some point, we have to rethink what it is that our ancestors are trying to bring
back to us.
And so the number of people who do not know how to walk in the field and see those medicines
(11:10):
and know what they're used for, the amount of people that have the desire to learn is
tremendous.
And we all should learn.
So that's kind of where that came from, is wanting to share, hey, take responsibility
for your own health by relearning what our ancestors left, you know, that knowledge that
(11:33):
that ancestors left us with, because sometimes they can take us out and put us into a system,
but something doesn't change within us.
And we have that strong desire to develop whatever that may be.
So that's kind of because of other dreams and other visions, I don't have time to go
(11:53):
into all of those ancestral voices was created.
But ancestral voices was a step because my vision was bigger than that.
And my vision was about a healing community.
So an off-grid healing community where we have everything that we need to survive, because
(12:15):
it's scary if you watch TV, it's scary if you're a young person growing up right now,
because of everything that you see and you hear and you feel.
And it's kind of scary.
So what can be created that is going to give us kind of that sense of calm and peace that
(12:37):
we're looking for.
So the stepping stone from ancestral voices is a project I call Land of the Dancing Deer,
because basically it's an off-grid healing center, a healing site, but it's more than
that, it's also working with technology, our old healing practices, our old healing ways,
(13:02):
our old healing knowledge, and combining it into something that is definitely unique.
I can honestly say, in all the projects that are out there, I do not see something that
I'm seeing when I see the Land of the Dancing Deer.
So we're working on manifesting that beautiful community within the community.
(13:28):
So when we look at that process, I have to go way back in time, because how did I get
to the place where I could envision that?
And it all started back in the 80s.
So there was a group of us, we got together and we called ourselves the Rekwa women's
(13:50):
circle.
And we did things that were beyond the scope of other people's normal.
We brought in speakers, we brought in, I guess, thoughts and feelings that were very old,
you know, very, very, I guess, very ancient in our way, but had been forgotten for years.
(14:18):
And so people kind of didn't like the thought that we were out there and we were doing that.
And so we learned to work through that and just close our eyes because we were working
spiritually, you know, from another lens.
And so that was when I was still kind of having my children during that time.
(14:39):
And so we kind of branched off, we did a lot of really powerful, good work.
And then we shifted, or I shifted.
So we came back together, you know, years later.
And one of the things, one of the groups that we created at that time was Grandmother's
Circle of the Earth.
(14:59):
And why we created Grandmother's Circle of the Earth was because we were traveling, we
were being kind of mentored by this beautiful, beautiful elder from the Southwest.
And this beautiful elder had kind of been guiding us.
And if you work with elders, you know, you don't get the full story and the full picture,
(15:21):
you get a paragraph or you get, you know, a thought.
And it's up to you to manifest that thought.
So we had some time that we were able to spend working with him, and then he wasn't here
anymore.
And so we had to take those concepts and we had to go, how do we continue this work?
What do we do to continue this work?
(15:44):
And the concept of Grandmother's Circle evolved.
So what Grandmother's Circle then did was it took us around the world.
So we went to different places around the world and we weren't to change anything as
we were to do a share and to plant seeds.
(16:04):
And so that's what we did.
So we did that in many different countries.
And it was really interesting because we would go and then, you know, we would do these workshops
and it was very busy for us because, you know, we went from one, two, three, four, five real
quick.
And so we were kind of like, wow, really busy doing that.
(16:29):
But it paid off because in Denmark now, there's over 24 women's circles or Grandmother's Circles.
And it was all about what do you need in your community?
So for instance, if you're a gardener and you see that we need to be planting more food,
well, get a bunch of, you know, grandmothers together and talk about how you do that and
(16:55):
share it with younger people and create that garden.
I mean, it's that simple because once you start to work together and you start to create,
then something's working through you.
So it's that ancestral energy that's moving through you and it's creating more than you
know.
So it could be about anything.
(17:17):
What does your community need and who can you get to, you know, organize it?
And so that's what it was and it's been quite successful.
We have circles everywhere in Africa and Denmark, England, like just everywhere.
(17:37):
And so our only job then was to plant that seed and we're not to go and we're not to
take any control or ownership over anything like that.
We simply plant that seed and let them run with it.
And so that's how we were able to take that really important teaching that we got and
that instruction that we got and we were able to transform it.
(17:59):
So moving forward then, you know, life happens and so we, this beautiful Jodi Harbor came
into our lives and we went on some journeys and next thing you know, you know, those seeds
are also the seeds of grandmother's voice.
I mean, Jodi listened to us, participated with us and we all came up with like, hey,
(18:29):
let's try this.
And so Jodi, she has a beautiful, expansive mind, beautiful, expansive mind and she'll
take that thought and she'll say, you know what, it can be this, this, this, this, this
and next thing you know, it's this, this, this, this and this.
And so the work of the grandmothers continues because of the value in listening to that
(18:52):
grandmother's wisdom or that ancient wisdom and finding a place where we're able to share.
So it's all about sharing.
It's all about caring.
It's all about finding, I guess, a response to everything that, you know, you're being
prompted to do in your lifetime.
(19:14):
So it's like, how do you move forward?
So you take those visions and you create those visions and you, and then you create another
vision and you enhance the vision and, and, and again, you have to have that, well, what
are we doing this for?
And so again, it's for those seven generations coming and, and it's to help with elevating
(19:37):
the vibrational energy of the land or of the earth because I remember back in, I don't
know, well, I guess the eighties.
So the world was supposed to end way back and I think it was 90 something.
The world was supposed to end and there's a group of people who live high up in the
(20:02):
mountains in South America.
And so these people, the world didn't end.
And so they sent out their mamos, they call them, in order to see, well, we don't see
the light.
So how come the world didn't end?
And so they sent out their, their mamos to different places and, and they wanted to see
(20:23):
what they saw and personally, you know, at that point I had had children, but I wasn't
with the father of these children.
And I remember that one of the mamos, they speak heart to heart language.
So even though they, they, they know how to speak language, they, they weren't, they
(20:45):
more intensify their thoughts on what's coming from the heart.
And I remember them looking at my son and they were asking, you know, your son is sad,
you know, what is going on?
So when I mentioned that, that he was without his father, they could see that hurt and pain.
So they were, they were in a place of feeling and experience the hurt and pain that we were
(21:09):
all carrying too, from being out of this residential school era.
And you know, coming into B who, who were becoming now, but they were, they were kind
of like in that grasp of, wow, people are carrying so much hurt and pain.
And so, so they traveled, they traveled throughout and then they would, you know, go back home
(21:34):
and then they would sit way on top of the mountain.
They called themselves the Elder Brothers.
And actually we were at a gathering just recently in April and the Mamos gave us a message,
you know, for the world.
And so I will share that at another time, but it was a message that they have created.
(21:57):
And the only reason, the only thing that they requested though, is that it not be on social
media because what happens when it goes on social media, it takes the energy out of the,
out of the words.
So to share that message, it has to be like maybe at a gathering where it's shared, but
it's not, it's not put in any form or it's like on the, on the social media.
(22:20):
And that was at their request.
So I mean, so we have a lot of, I guess, energy in making the world a better place.
And so the more that we collectively do, the more that we collectively share as groups,
(22:41):
as individuals, as, you know, collectives of people who are in that caring, sharing
spirit, the more powerful that the world can become.
And so we're seeing through our prophecies that we're in a time that was forecast.
We're in a time where the giants that be are starting to falter.
(23:05):
You know, they've been giants for like 5,000 years and all giants have to fall too.
And so those political giants aren't having the clout and they're starting, they're trying
to fight for that clout again so that they can keep that power.
But that power isn't serving the world to the best of its ability.
(23:26):
So because of that, then there has to be some type of a change.
So we're being told, and we really have to listen to this, we're being told that we have
to make those changes and we have to make those changes now.
So we have to look at food sustainability.
(23:46):
What is the, what is our basic needs?
And how are we going to use those basic needs to create food security?
I would say out of all the things that they can do, right now it's food security that
is the main.
(24:07):
And if you look at those shelves in the supermarkets, it disturbs me to see that there are a lot
of empty shelves.
You know, things that we used to take for granted aren't on those shelves anymore.
Things are happening.
The whole world economy is based on sharing and that's faltering.
(24:27):
We're not able to get all of those products that we used to get.
So we're having to change something as well.
So we have to go back to creating those gardens.
We have to go back to working together in a more sustainable way on all levels if we're
going to succeed as people.
(24:49):
So these are just things that everyone probably knows, but we really have to look at the extent
of what we don't know.
And we have to make efforts to be more kind and more respectful to the land, more kind
(25:10):
and respectful to the medicines.
How do we create those relationships within nature?
How do we create those relationships within organizations so that they're healthy?
And so those are things that I guess we've been preparing for for many generations.
(25:32):
You know, those are the teachings that come through spiritually and they're saying, smoke
your pipes, do your ceremonies, look at what you need to look at and begin.
Because if you don't begin now, we're going to be in that doomsday frame of mind and we
(25:54):
don't want to go there.
So I've been talking for quite a long time, so I guess it's time to put it back.
And is there any other questions or any other things that you would like to add?
Thank you so much, Gail.
There was so much juiciness in there and really appreciate your expertise and your efforts
(26:19):
with Ancestral Voices.
I was in there a few weeks ago and loved to see the different herbs and medicines and
the crystals that you had there.
Didn't get to see your healing space, but I understand you do like private practice
there as well.
And your work with the Land of the Dancing Deer and the grandmother's circles as well
(26:45):
and how that has morphed and evolved into grandmother's voice.
So I just wanted to clarify, what did you mean by We Are the Medicine?
I've heard that before and I get that.
But for our listeners who are tuning in to learn about the spiritual approach to mental
wellness, our focus is like truth and reconciliation towards decolonizing concept.
And you were asking earlier, like, what is decolonization?
(27:07):
I've heard it said one reflection of it is a re-indigenization.
Like you said, coming back to the land, that the land is medicine, that we are medicine.
What do you mean by that?
Well exactly that.
I mean, the words say it all.
So it's like that heartbeat.
So we are the heartbeat of something.
(27:28):
We have that essence of that heartbeat within every breath that we take, our heart is boom,
boom, boom.
And so when we connect to the drum that way, something stimulates within our whole concept
of who we are.
So when we talk about we are land, we are medicine, we're not disconnected from the
(27:52):
land.
So what I mean by that is, you know, our healing comes from the land.
Our healing comes from the voices of the land.
It comes from the voices of the wind.
It comes from the healing powers of the water.
It comes from the fact that we are everything and everything is us.
(28:15):
So we can't disconnect and we can't just be water.
We can't just be land.
We can't just be air.
We can't just be fire because we need all of that in order to be whole.
And if one of those aspects is out of balance, boom, we have fires, boom, we have hurricanes.
(28:35):
You know, when we have different things happening and we're out of balance, that's what happens.
So Dennis coined that we are land, we are medicine because in order to be that power,
in order to be that strength, we have to know that we are all connected.
(28:56):
And so it comes from within.
It doesn't come from any exterior source.
It comes from that altar that we create for ourselves.
And so that altar is a very special and a sacred healing space.
And where it comes from is being able to be in tune to the forest, being able to be in
(29:16):
tune with the medicines, being able to be in tune with the birds, being able to be in
tune with what is our intuition, what is our heart trying to put out there, you know.
And so the more that we connect it, and so that means we are not connected from anyone.
So we're here on this platform right now.
(29:39):
We're connecting in that way together.
But as it goes out there, we're connecting in that way again.
So we have to take that into consideration that in order to be a strong, powerful medicine,
we have to be together.
Sometimes we don't put enough into our medicine in order to make us strong.
(30:00):
And we allow the health sciences are different things.
We allow them to be our ear.
And then that's not always the best way because we have to say, you know, okay, what makes
me who I am?
What makes you who you are?
You know, how can we create something that has a healthy relationship to everything around
(30:26):
us?
So yeah, so I mean, that's kind of like an easy way to say we are land, we are medicine,
because we walk on the land.
Every step we take is an imprint.
And we leave imprints, and we also step into the imprints of those that have walked before
(30:47):
us.
So again, that's our connection to everything that is.
And sometimes we look at the fact that, you know, some people are born in another land.
And so their parents are born in the land and they're born here on this beautiful land.
(31:07):
So they become where they are born.
You know, the land speaks to them, their DNA is here, they become part of the essence of
the space.
And so what does that mean?
You know, that means that collectively, we're all one.
And we are the land and we are the medicine.
So we have to look at it that way.
(31:29):
And we have to walk our walk in that direction.
So kind of like a big answer.
Speaking my language, I suppose the colonized mindset that I was raised with as a settler
descendant, is that there seems to be this mindset of entitlements, that there's this
(31:52):
extractive and exploitative quality to life.
And it's like getting what you can while you can.
And there's very little respect or reverence for the land and for the plants.
And the animals and offering that gratitude and having that humility that we're all connected.
I feel like is what is missing in that disconnect, which is manifesting as a cultural trauma
(32:19):
of mental illness and people feeling really separate and isolated and alone.
So I hear what you're saying and coming together in community and communing with the land and
the elements and reconnecting and grounding in our bodies and allowing our ancestors to
(32:42):
offer us their wisdom and healing and reconnecting to our souls.
So really grateful for your perspective there, Gail.
Jodi, anything to add?
Yeah, well, amazing.
I always love to hear Gail speak, especially when she just speaks from that place of, I
(33:06):
say channeling, considering this is what she does, is forever in every space sharing her
knowledge in such an open way, which is the way of these elders and grandmas who have
been just walking their path and whoever they meet along the way, they just walk with them.
(33:31):
And they always invite people in.
And I've been so grateful to know them and to have been shared this knowledge.
I'm sitting and she's speaking to my spirit because that was how I connected myself was
with the land and this grandmother cedar that had this many histories.
(33:55):
And I could see the faces of the women and then there they were.
So everything that she says resonates with my spirit.
And she had mentioned Dennis Wendigo a couple of times, and this is a gentleman, an elder.
Well, I don't know if he likes to be referred to as an elder, but he shares knowledge with
(34:18):
us.
And we call him, well, I just call him Dennis.
But the day that I met him and saw him sharing knowledge and transferring knowledge, it was
like this message was like, that's the guy.
He's going to walk with us and share knowledge from this ancient wisdom that he's revitalized
(34:42):
in his practice.
He's healed himself and now he wants to share with whoever will listen how all of this that
Gail spoke about can be, you can tap into this knowledge to heal the history that has
(35:03):
affected all of us, the history of the development of this country, which is what you, all that
you spoke about Eleanor is a taught behavior by our surroundings and our systems of oppression,
our systems that have been, were designed to create this nation.
And now we've woken up, we're awake and these grandmas have been doing reconciliation for
(35:31):
decades and probably centuries.
You know, if we look at the ones that came before Gail and came before myself, and so
I'm just really grateful that I'm a part of this circle and know that it is my responsibility
to make this circle accessible to surround these grandmas and support the work that they
(35:57):
continue to do because they do this work, they travel across the world.
And they find resources to get them there.
But now we're in a time where we can actually support their travel and maybe this is what
this circle and these opportunities to share their voices is our responsibility is to help
(36:20):
them find resources to get them to these places that are calling for healing and for circles.
So very grateful to them for guiding me.
And then also, you know, the guidance for us to meet Eleanor to start something like
this that is important for community to be able to listen to and connect with and then
(36:48):
just to figure out what's next for them.
So thank you, Gail.
Niawa, I love you.
And I love you too.
Thank you, Gail.
Can you tell people your best website that they can find more information about your
work?
Well, okay.
So ancestralvoices.ca is for my visit, I guess my practice and my storefront.
(37:18):
And Land of the Dancing Deer is being, I guess, rehashed.
It's being redone.
And so it's there right now, but we're shifting and changing it around.
So and it is Land of the Dancing Deer.
That's the website.
So yeah, you can find information on both of those.
(37:39):
And of course, if anyone is willing to donate and find out more about the project, that's
always a value too, because, you know, it's a, I guess it's a family affair, you know,
to put energy into something that is going to value our larger families as well, families
(38:01):
that need to come to the space.
So yeah.
I think Grandmother's Voice has a donation.
Do you have that on your website yet?
Or maybe not.
But I mean, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So thank you.
Yeah, I'll reach out to Grandmother's Voice.
(38:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And follow up because we're doing a lot of stuff, you know, moving forward.
So yeah, stay connected.
Yeah, because we're not separate from Ancestral Voices, Land of the Dancing Deer and Grandmother's
Voice.
I mean, that's one big circle.
So yeah, so you can kind of get information you need through Grandmother's Voice platform
(38:50):
as well.
Beautiful.
Thank you both so much for your time and your energy.
Really grateful for this.
And thanks again to Skyward TV and Hopeful Radio.
Thank you to our listener.
And tune in and give us your feedback.
Thank you so much.
Take care.
Bye bye.
Bye everyone.
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