December 7, 2023 • 32 mins
In this episode of Reconciling Humanity, Holistic Facilitator Eleanor Hayward and Jody Harbour, co-founder of Grandmother's Voice, are joined by Asha Frost, the best-selling author of "You are the Medicine". An Indigenous healer, oracle deck creator, mentor and mama - Asha's life work is to help people connect to the medicine that's always been inside of them. Asha takes us through a somatic guided meditation and shares an oracle reading for insight and inspiration.
Learn more:
Asha Frost: https://ashafrost.com
Eleanor Hayward: https://holisticeleanor.com
Grandmother’s Voice: https://grandmothersvoice.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome, everybody. This is Eleanor Hayward and Jodie Harbour and our very special guest
(00:15):
today, Asha Frost. You are likely watching this on Skyward TV and Hopeful Radio, and
we are so grateful for this platform, these platforms that give us a space to discuss
the spiritual path to mental wellness. I would like to start us off with a land acknowledgement.
(00:37):
As a settler descendant, I here acknowledge the past and current stewards of this land,
the Haudenosaunee, Wendat, Huron and the Ottawa-Ndaran peoples. We have a responsibility to honour
and respect the four directions, the land, waters, plants, animals and ancestors that
walked before us. This territory of Burlington, where I am, is between Niagara Falls and
(01:00):
Toronto for anybody outside the area, is subject to the Dish with One Spoon Wampum Belt covenant,
which is an agreement between the Haudenosaunee Six Nations Confederacy, the Anishinaabe Ojibwe,
and allied nations to peaceably share and care for the lands and the relationships around
the Great Lakes. We acknowledge and thank the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation
for sharing their traditional territory with us. I personally am very grateful to the Waxing
(01:27):
Moon. It was so lovely out the other night, a bountiful harvest season and the autumn
season.
Welcoming Asha Frost, she is an Ojibwe woman from New Market, which is north of Toronto,
the Healing Rainbow Woman, which is just, I love that name. That's beautiful. She who
(01:49):
walks with the path with the Thunderbirds. So I will pass it to Jody, who is the co-founder
of Grandmother's Voice, an Indigenous organization in Halton Region. Jody.
Yawa. We started in Halton Region and we are just making our way through many territories
(02:11):
that are really connecting with the people who want to do this work, who love to share
their love. I'm so grateful to be in this space. First, I'm going to acknowledge Asha
that I'm here with you before I even acknowledge myself. I'm so excited. But just a Skano Jody
(02:32):
Ngaso. My name is Jody Harbour. I identify as an urban Indigenous woman. My great grandmother
was of the Cayuga Nation, Six Nations of the Grand River Territory. I feel her. I feel
her with me and have for a long time. Through this way of being, I get to feel that. I get
(02:54):
to know that. In this time, we get to actually acknowledge it, talk about it, share it. It's
an honour. I'm a mom of two beautiful children, auntie, wife, just loving sister to the women
in my life. I'm grateful to be able to be here and share my voice. I do feel like it's
(03:15):
on behalf of my ancestors that never had that opportunity to be able to share and talk like
this. I'm, yes, a part of grandmother's voice, which is I'm one of many people who have,
I'm finding the same vision. We're coming together and knowing that we have women out
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there who are leading like Asha, it is a true honour. In the back room, we are saying how
excited our sisters are and our community is to know that we're actually having this
space and time with you. It's an honour to meet you today and to be able to share this
conversation later is really exciting for us.
(03:58):
So, Niawa for being here, Asha. Please tell us who you are. Tell everyone who's going
to be visiting with us at some point in time in the future who you are.
Oh, Chi miigwech. It's an honour to be here and your opening words brought tears to my
eyes because I feel sometimes the path feels lonely and we can forget that there are sisters
(04:20):
that are holding our hands and doing this together. So, I just feel very welcomed in
a space of belonging in your space. So, miigwech.
My spirit name is Healing Rainbow Woman and it's also
She who walks the path of the Thunderbirds. I am from the traditional territories of
(04:43):
So, Cape Croaker First Nation on my mother's side and Serpent River on my father's side
and I have membership at Cape Croaker and I am from the Crane Clan. I am a mama of two
boys and you know just very much like Jodi, an auntie and a friend and a sister and those
parts of my life I think are so treasured, a treasured part of my life as well as a healer
(05:07):
and an author and a speaker and it's beautiful to be in community here with all of you. So,
thank you for having me. There's my book.
Oh, yeah. We have so much. I'm like I was sitting here saying I have your book. I had
my audible. I you actually did your audible, right? This is your voice. I, when you started
(05:29):
to speak in this book, I was like on my audible I was like, I love her.
Oh,
Like we were I felt so connected and the more I heard you speak, I was like, um, yes, connected.
I tell everyone we share your book in our sister circle. We share your book all the
time. We bring it in our conversations and you know, I just your voice was beautiful
(05:53):
and the work that you do is awesome. So, let's talk about that and how you really, I think
you really resonated, shook up, moved, however you want to, you know, start it. You did something
really brave and courageous and I'm grateful, you know, and I actually look back at your
letter quite often. I'm kind of getting well like I'm crying right now because of how grateful
(06:16):
I was to read that, um, this letter, you know, to the white woman who, uh, who wants to be
like me and a part of my journey is that I'm not indigenous enough, but I look at my family
and I'm like, Hey, how come I didn't get everything that they got? Uh, but that's also a challenge
for women like me who are indigenous, who are having space and place. I get the, you
(06:39):
know, um, this, the look up and down. What who's like, how indigenous are you? What percentage
are you? But I'd love to, before we really get into all of the other, um, beautiful work
we do, let's talk about this, this difficult conversation and how and why, and how did,
where did that come up? I know because I listened to your book and read it. Well, first I want
(06:59):
to acknowledge and validate that I think I can say all of us feel non-indigenous enough
because the, the colonial trauma that we've experienced. So I think that no matter how
indigenous we are, I think that we all have that similar wound and sometimes it plays
out. We play that out with one another. And I think that I want to just bring compassion
into that space for all, all people, because I think that identity, um, we're constantly
(07:24):
negotiating it, reclaiming it, um, healing with it. So I want to acknowledge, thank you
so much for that vulnerable share because I feel that too, right? I feel that too. So
this letter came about over years and years of me struggling. And at the time I was doing
a lot of in-person work, a lot of community work and circle work, um, private practice
(07:46):
work and social media wasn't really on the scene at the time as much as it is, as it
is now, but there would be people that I would see that would be taking our teachings and
they were non-indigenous. And for some reason they'd feel entitled to use them as their
own. And I was in a space at the time where I didn't feel like I could share any of my
teachings because I just felt I had all that trauma of them being taken and stripped away
(08:11):
and who was I to share these and who was I to even practice them. There was that barrier
of trauma in between me and the medicine. So I was struggling with that. And I think that's
really what started to spark within me. I was feeling anger, rage, sadness, grief, all
of these emotions arise every time I would see these people teach our teachings. And
(08:32):
I would think to myself, how is this fair? But I sat with it for a good five or six years
because I tend to be a person who likes to think about things. I'm not very reactive
and I want to sort of look at my own part in it and heal through it. But one day I couldn't
do that anymore. And I thought something really is happening and social media was just starting
to come alive and people were starting to share our teachings online. So you'd see a
(08:57):
lot of people use them in marketing ways. So they'd have like a sage stick just like
flying around the air. And it was, it was not used in a very reverent or sacred way.
That's a judgment perhaps, but I could feel that in my body. So I kept feeling the shaking
and shaking every time I feel it. There would be other folks using it. I wouldn't feel that
with. So it was just a very particular energy that felt like that co-opting or taking or
(09:21):
extractive that I could still feel in my body today. It's still a very visceral feeling.
And my friend that I would talk to you about it all the time, she's, she's white and she's
saying, I think you need to say something. I think you need to write a letter. So she
actually sparked the idea. And I had a blog at the time. Nobody read my blog. I mean,
(09:42):
some people read it. My clients did, but nobody else really read it. And I wrote this letter,
dear white woman who wants to be like me, because over the years, even since I was,
I was younger, a teenager, people would say, Oh my goodness, you're so lucky to be indigenous.
Oh my gosh. I love your earrings. Or, Oh, I love this. And I, I was an indigenous person
in the past life, or I wish I had a status card, or how do I get a status card? All these
(10:03):
things that we hear from, from non-indigenous people all the time. And I just felt like
this feeling of, I, I don't even feel worthy enough to take up space as an indigenous woman
on my own land. I need to speak about this. So I did. And I wrote this letter and I was
(10:24):
terrified to share it because again, I wanted to, I wanted to come from a heart place, a
heart centered place, because that tends to be my way. And I knew there was fierce words
in it and I knew that it would invoke something, but I didn't think so many people would read
it. So I put it out there on my Instagram and on my blog and it went viral and it went
(10:46):
viral pretty fast. And I wasn't ready for the, I'm going to say backlash or reaction
or interaction. At the time I didn't have a really big platform. So I wasn't ready for
all the people to respond to it. And some people responded with gratitude. Other people
responded. They were very angry and my inboxes were flooded with, and what it really did
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was invited people and people just felt the invitation to tell me their stories. And you
have to imagine I, I am a space holder. I'd been a healer for 15 years. I'm used to listening
to people, but you have to imagine all of this unsolicited emails and messages of people
just wanting to tell their stories, which also shows we don't have enough spaces for
storytelling and story listening. Right. But I was so overwhelmed. I couldn't listen to
(11:36):
these pages. People would write the essays of their stories and, and why in past lives
are indigenous. So they weren't taking and trying to prove themselves to me. And ultimately
trying to get me to say, I wasn't talking about you or to validate them. And I didn't
have the capacity for this. I had two young, young children. My, I had a baby at the time.
I couldn't, I couldn't give them what they needed. So it was kind of a hard experience
(12:02):
to have something go viral and need not be ready for what was going to happen after.
And, but then also, it also opened up my, my platform and for me to be seen as an indigenous
woman. So it was also very beautiful. It was all beautiful. We don't ever know how people
will react, especially in reconciliation, truth and reconciliation. We have no idea,
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you know, every space is different. So Eleanor, what do you think? See, first you're amazing.
Amazing. You're both so amazing. And this is great. I would have read the letter. I
will certainly look for that, but I know that that's what you entered into a contest. If
that's the right word with Hay House, which is a publishing company that I'm familiar
with Louise Hay is and her, her, how to heal your life book was transformative for my life.
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And I share it with my clients all the time. I'm also a healer and one particular part
of your book jumped out because you won the contest and she got this book deal with Hay
House, which is amazing. The first indigenous woman. So you are the medicine, which is very
(13:11):
similar to, um, another guest we've had Dennis Wendigo. And he says, you are land, you are
medicine. And it's like, ah, yes, this is beautiful. And grandmother's voice has that
on a, on a sweater that I, I got as well. So this passage from the sugar moon, four
ways to love yourself unconditionally. And number one is unweave yourself from the story
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of conditional worth. And this has been huge inner work for me personally, both white supremacy
and patriarchal conditioning have falsely told us that we are only worthy when producing
accomplishing new heights or gaining status somehow. Dr. Valerie rain coined the term
PSD and wrote the book patriarchy stress disorder to describe the ancestral and collective trauma
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that affects those who identify as women. She believes that this prevents us from stepping
into our joyful success and fulfillment. And if this isn't the spiritual path to mental
health, I'm not sure what is. So one of the themes of this show along with truth and reconciliation
in Canada here is, is decolonization because as much as I, I honor decolonization as a,
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an institutional policy practice, I believe it is also a spiritual mindset. It's also
a heart set. It's, it's in our bodies, this process of colonization. And you use the word
extraction, Asha, it's a, it's a process of extraction and exploitation. And as a settler,
I, I think on one branch of my family, I'm eighth generation Canadian from the United
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Kingdom and I feel a responsibility to, to shift this narrative and how can we find a
path to peace? And I know that that begins with it. And so please tell us in your perspective,
Asha, about, about white supremacy and the patriarchy stress disorder. How does this
fit into colonic decolonization for you, please?
(15:08):
Oh, I like to, I really love the word re-indigenization. I think, I think colonization, decolonizing
is really important. And I really love, how are we going to have a vision for the future?
Because we can spend our entire lives unwinding, unweaving, doing the work, which I think is
so important. And then what are we going to replace it with? What is the vision that we
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carry? How do we make more space and room for that? Because I think that that equal
is like an equal part that we need to hold space for. So I am here for the decolonizing,
but I'm even more here for the re-indigenizing and also even just taking up space. Like I
think space and land that has been stripped from us, feeling worthy of even taking up
space for me, it was for Hay House. It's like on the stage, taking up space on the stage
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when nobody else who looked like me never has done that. So right now, sometimes I will
be honest, it feels like tiptoes, like my toes are there, but how can I breathe into
actually stretch that capacity out when sometimes those systems won't even make a room or space
for me. And that is a very real lived experience that happens in these systems of white supremacy
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and patriarchal and capitalism and colonialism is the experience they are so used to extracting
and taking and colonizing and you know that it's like, what do you mean make space? We've
never done this before. So it's a lot of me stepping into a space and inviting other indigenous
folks to step into these spaces or folks of color. Because I think that I tend to work
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with, you know, different intersections and saying like, actually, you are worthy of this,
you are worthy of taking up the space, you're worthy of even though the systems are telling
you that you're not. So for me, space is a huge, important part of this. Also, I want
to use entitlement as a word because I think that we can think that's like a bad word that
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people feel entitled. But how do we practice healthy entitlement, feeling actually worthy
of okay, my voice is needed here. And it's been a huge practice for me in a very white
publishing world that is steeped in capitalism, colonialism, white supremacy. I have to practice
that it feels like every moment of every day of saying, Oh, I'm worthy of this space and
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also navigating tokenism, navigating like being one of the onlys navigating the only
trailblazer and being the person that's sort of doing it when there's not a lot of people
to show me the way and I have to trust there are others just holding my hands and coming
along with me. So those are the ways that it's reflected in my own experience. And I
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see how these systems will continue to perpetuate this harm. So we have to intentionally, intentionally
just negotiate that within our own energy spaces to say, I'm standing for this instead.
And that's what I hope my work does. And I hope it ripples out for other people to see
like you are worthy of this indigenous youth, you are worthy of having space made for you.
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And how can I be that person that is leaving that legacy for the generations behind me?
So that's how it shows up for me. I love that you say you say you speak you speak my language.
I'm not gonna lie. I just I love I love love. And I think that as an entrepreneur, I've
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been an entrepreneur for very young young age. And the work that that grandmother's
voice myself does in my own area is, is really trying to create those spaces for the the
two worlds will say to come together. And you said so much that I want to talk about.
So I'm going to try to keep my mind on track. The word that came to mind when you're speaking
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of entitlement to me was something that grandmother Renee Thomas Hill speaks about when she's
in which she says peace, power and righteousness. And we get a lot of, you know, a lot of people
say, what do you mean righteousness? That's you know, can that be ego and no, you know,
it was not ego before capitalism, colonization, it was not it was knowing your place and in
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the power that you have inside. So, you know, we have that conversation a lot. And it is
a challenge in those spaces and places. And that's what I found just so graceful about
your, you know, essence and what you deliver in your book and in your in everything that
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you do and what you stand for is that space and place and you know, it's not even about
being safe. Like, let's just leave that out and just and just show up holy and open. And
how can we really move forward together on this path, you know, from truth to reconciliation
to relationship, or be relationship. And so you inspire me to stand in my power and and
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encourage me to continue on my path. And over the last couple of days, so we I do quite
a bit of work in the corporate world. And that's that that's when you were like tiptoeing,
I was like, Oh, that is me. Because you know, you get in this space. And I've always sat
at these boardroom tables. I've been, you know, the only woman at some of these boardroom
tables. And, and now I show up and I say, you know, like 2325 years ago, I couldn't
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bring spirit into that table. I used to get kicked by my husband under the table. Don't
talk like that, you know, or they don't understand. And now I show up with my to grow wampum.
And that's how I start the conversation. And then our contract is about let's, let's write
a letter of relationship and talk about this. And then if we're really want, you know, it's
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not just a transaction any longer. And so it's a really deep so I just want to acknowledge
that I drop your book everywhere. When I'm finished my meetings, I say, you know, especially
to those who are really in their mind and want to do the work, but they just don't know
how to go lower. They don't, they just don't. And so I just want to acknowledge you right
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now and thank you so much for providing me some language and some tools to show up in
those spaces to be grace for those wanting to learn more because I like I'm really controlled
right now, Asha, when you get to know me more, I'm all about let's do it. Let's jump in.
Come on, let's all be vulnerable. So I just want to acknowledge that and there's so much
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in your book. I just want to acknowledge as well how you opened your book in this beautiful
ceremony and and how you create that space for people. And if there's if there's anything
that we can leave this circle with right now to give you that opportunity is to give you
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that opportunity to share your message with the people that will see this. Besides listening
or buying the book or the cards, which I hope we get, we're going to ask you to pull one
of your cards before we move on or before we leave the space together. But if you could
share a message of inspiration to the people that will watch this video, what would happen
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when you were talking? I mean, it always comes to me as a vision. So as you're talking, what
I felt was your first of all, your open heart, your open heartedness in the way that your
medicine shows up in the world and how courageous and brave it is to live with an open heart.
Because an open heart, there's there's really I mean, we guard ourselves so much, right?
(22:57):
We've guard ourselves with scrunch ourselves up and an open heart is vulnerable to these
things coming in. But also think about the beauty that can ripple out from an open heart.
So let's just actually somatically practice this. Let's take a breath and feel into can
I open my capacity to open my heart up a little bit more today in my relationships, in my
(23:19):
interactions, in my communications, knowing that my ancestors in the spirit worlds are
protecting me, knowing that I have animal allies and beings, the plants and the trees
and the waters, they protect my heart. They are here. They're holding me. Can I open my
heart a little bit and come from the heart and the spirit? You're so colonized to always
(23:40):
come from our minds. And as you said, let's drop in and drop into that truth that we are
land and we are medicine. And maybe perhaps feel what does the spirit of my heart feel
like look like sound like in the world? If I was to meet another, how could I relate
(24:05):
to their spirit of their heart? Just imagine all of us doing that together. How would that
look? How would that feel? We can open our eyes. I think that in all of the spaces and
places that I speak in, that I lecture in, that I talk to, I do a diverse, you know,
(24:27):
spaces or sometimes there's corporate, sometimes there's healing spaces. But what I noticed
the most is we want to always jump into that very colonial white supremacy way of being,
which is just like, mind, mind, mind, take notes, PowerPoints. Like, how can we like
get out of it? It's like, and I say, you know, they're like, well, even schools will say,
well, do we want to take notes? I said, these are kindergarten and grade one to three children.
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They don't need to be taking notes. How can we like relate to each other and feel the
energy and the medicine and our bodies and our hearts and our spirits? That's what I'm
making room for is getting out of our, not that our minds aren't important, but we've
done that for years now. Can we just lay that down for a little bit? Because all the, all
the information coming at us constantly, 24 seven, we do not have the capacity to absorb
(25:13):
it, to integrate it and to live it out. We just don't because we're practicing, we're
not practicing mind and spirit and heartwork or spirit and heartwork for all up here. So
let's get into the heart. Let's relate to each other from the heart. And that's what
you do, Jody. That's what I feel so powerfully from your medicine. So make, wow.
Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Can we just make this like two hours long? We could keep going
(25:37):
and keep going. Do you have anything Eleanor before we ask Asha to pull a card?
Yeah. And I think this, this fits in another passage from the book that really resonated
with me. If we all lived in a reciprocal way, the flow of abundance would begin to cut through
the systems and structures that keep us down. Gratitude is the gateway for abundance. Practice
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mindfulness, share, give back and walk with grace. If we all walked in this indigenous
way, our earth would heal. That is medicine right there in a paragraph. Thank you Asha
for sharing your medicine with us. I would love to hear a card.
(26:23):
I'm going to do a reading for everyone here. We're going to do a three card reading. So
this is from my sacred medicine, Oracle deck. And this is a dream. I had a dream of having
a deck since I was 20. And it was actually with Hay House. So I also want to leave behind.
Now I'm 46. So the dream took 26 years to come true. So please hold your dream in your
(26:44):
heart because one day it may come true. Okay, so we're going to do a three card reading,
one for the past and everything that you're just moving through currently, you know, like
the stuff that you've just woven through one for the present energies and then one for
the future. Okay, so let's see what do we get? Oh, so the past is the medicine bag card,
(27:09):
the gather card. So this speaks to different aspects of wisdom, different aspects of your
medicine, different aspects of healing that you've been going through and all the reclamation
that's been coming that you can now sit and hold in your medicine bag as knowing to teach
with the world. So this is actually an initiation to say, you've learned those lessons, you've
(27:31):
gone through those hard times and those challenges. Now what can you reclaim from that and bring
into wisdom so that you can share that with humanity, which is needed so much at this
time? What is in your medicine bag to share? What is the medicine that you're holding and
really cleaning that it's so important. And I think we're not, you know, we talked a little
(27:51):
bit about what was the word that you used. I loved it, but I was thinking about like
holding humility in a really beautiful way. Like we always think of humility as shrinking
or being small, but like, let's be with one with creation and see that we are medicine
keepers. We can do that still with grace. We can still do that and hold it in a non egoic
way. So the current is the shaker card, the truth card. Now this is quite the like activation
(28:18):
card. So this is the current card and there's a lot of activation going on collectively
right now. So we have a lot of fiery energy happening. Lots of things are burning up.
Lots of truth is surfacing. This is probably speaking to the collective energy. How can
you be part of it? What is your, your voice? What is your voice asking? And with this card
(28:39):
of the medicine bag, we're really asking like, what is the wisdom that you've claimed over
the last cycle or season? And now how can you put it into practice? Now how can you
actually be the advocate, the ally, the, the person of medicine who's speaking into the
world because we need, we need that. We need those voices to be brave. Um, we think about
(29:00):
courage and that letter that we talked about that took a lot of courage. Um, and it wasn't
easy, but it ended up being such a blessing. So your truth can too. Here's the future,
the full spirit moon card. The future is bright, beautiful ones. The future is bright. Um,
grandmother moon doesn't hide when she's in her fullness expression. She's just like,
(29:21):
I went through my cycle. Here I am. Everybody watched my shine and this is what's calling
to you. How can you step out in your fullest expression, those doubts, those fears, those,
um, what I call inner critic or inner oppressor voices. How can you tend to those that you
can actually let your medicine shine through in the fullness of what it is? So there's
(29:44):
a lot of, um, activation here of your medicine. You see, there you go. There you go. So the
future is good. Yeah. Oh, for you. That's so fun. And I think the best part, cause I
love Oracle Sue. Like I think, you know, for alumna, I'm not 46, but I, I've been that
(30:08):
path and been there, done that. Hey, house has been a big part of, of my journey too,
cause when there wasn't, when there, I wasn't connected, um, you know, they were there to
guide and it was, I was grateful. Um, and I am so proud to see you in that realm. It
is so amazing to see you there. So I'm proud, excited, uh, grateful for the space and time
(30:33):
and Eleanor for like, you know, pushing this and saying like, let's do this. Um, you know,
reconciling humanity is a passion for both of us, for both sides to bring, to bring the
people together in a time to shine. Uh, now what Asha, I want to bring you in person somewhere
where we are and join our circle, uh, next year and let's introduce you to our community.
(30:59):
I would love it. Um, in person, let's do it. Yes, do it. I'm so grateful. Thank you both
Eleanor and Jodie. This has been such a blessing to be with you. And I'm here to, I'm really
here to hold that vision of the bridge to just to have us all, we need all of us, right?
To come together for reconciliation. So make a wish with all my heart. Thank you. Now,
(31:19):
uh, thank you so much, Asha. And I perceive gratitude, which is a huge element of healing,
um, from your passage there, but humility as a deep sense of gratitude. Like that when
I, when I heard that. So thank you so much. Gratitude and, uh, for your time and space
(31:43):
here with us. And I would love for you to come to a grandmother's voice event next year.
That sounds amazing. It's so nice to be with both of you and, uh, just let me know how,
I'd love to share this too. Um, if I can, with my community. Yes. Thank you so much
for watching Reconciling Humanity on Skybird TV and Hopeful Radio. Very blessed for your
(32:08):
presence and your attention. And please share with us your feedback, your questions. Blessed
be.
Welcome, everybody. This is Eleanor Hayward and Jodie Harbour and our very special guest
(00:15):
today, Asha Frost. You are likely watching this on Skyward TV and Hopeful Radio, and
we are so grateful for this platform, these platforms that give us a space to discuss
the spiritual path to mental wellness. I would like to start us off with a land acknowledgement.
(00:37):
As a settler descendant, I here acknowledge the past and current stewards of this land,
the Haudenosaunee, Wendat, Huron and the Ottawa-Ndaran peoples. We have a responsibility to honour
and respect the four directions, the land, waters, plants, animals and ancestors that
walked before us. This territory of Burlington, where I am, is between Niagara Falls and
(01:00):
Toronto for anybody outside the area, is subject to the Dish with One Spoon Wampum Belt covenant,
which is an agreement between the Haudenosaunee Six Nations Confederacy, the Anishinaabe Ojibwe,
and allied nations to peaceably share and care for the lands and the relationships around
the Great Lakes. We acknowledge and thank the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation
for sharing their traditional territory with us. I personally am very grateful to the Waxing
(01:27):
Moon. It was so lovely out the other night, a bountiful harvest season and the autumn
season.
Welcoming Asha Frost, she is an Ojibwe woman from New Market, which is north of Toronto,
the Healing Rainbow Woman, which is just, I love that name. That's beautiful. She who
(01:49):
walks with the path with the Thunderbirds. So I will pass it to Jody, who is the co-founder
of Grandmother's Voice, an Indigenous organization in Halton Region. Jody.
Yawa. We started in Halton Region and we are just making our way through many territories
(02:11):
that are really connecting with the people who want to do this work, who love to share
their love. I'm so grateful to be in this space. First, I'm going to acknowledge Asha
that I'm here with you before I even acknowledge myself. I'm so excited. But just a Skano Jody
(02:32):
Ngaso. My name is Jody Harbour. I identify as an urban Indigenous woman. My great grandmother
was of the Cayuga Nation, Six Nations of the Grand River Territory. I feel her. I feel
her with me and have for a long time. Through this way of being, I get to feel that. I get
(02:54):
to know that. In this time, we get to actually acknowledge it, talk about it, share it. It's
an honour. I'm a mom of two beautiful children, auntie, wife, just loving sister to the women
in my life. I'm grateful to be able to be here and share my voice. I do feel like it's
(03:15):
on behalf of my ancestors that never had that opportunity to be able to share and talk like
this. I'm, yes, a part of grandmother's voice, which is I'm one of many people who have,
I'm finding the same vision. We're coming together and knowing that we have women out
(03:36):
there who are leading like Asha, it is a true honour. In the back room, we are saying how
excited our sisters are and our community is to know that we're actually having this
space and time with you. It's an honour to meet you today and to be able to share this
conversation later is really exciting for us.
(03:58):
So, Niawa for being here, Asha. Please tell us who you are. Tell everyone who's going
to be visiting with us at some point in time in the future who you are.
Oh, Chi miigwech. It's an honour to be here and your opening words brought tears to my
eyes because I feel sometimes the path feels lonely and we can forget that there are sisters
(04:20):
that are holding our hands and doing this together. So, I just feel very welcomed in
a space of belonging in your space. So, miigwech.
My spirit name is Healing Rainbow Woman and it's also
She who walks the path of the Thunderbirds. I am from the traditional territories of
(04:43):
So, Cape Croaker First Nation on my mother's side and Serpent River on my father's side
and I have membership at Cape Croaker and I am from the Crane Clan. I am a mama of two
boys and you know just very much like Jodi, an auntie and a friend and a sister and those
parts of my life I think are so treasured, a treasured part of my life as well as a healer
(05:07):
and an author and a speaker and it's beautiful to be in community here with all of you. So,
thank you for having me. There's my book.
Oh, yeah. We have so much. I'm like I was sitting here saying I have your book. I had
my audible. I you actually did your audible, right? This is your voice. I, when you started
(05:29):
to speak in this book, I was like on my audible I was like, I love her.
Oh,
Like we were I felt so connected and the more I heard you speak, I was like, um, yes, connected.
I tell everyone we share your book in our sister circle. We share your book all the
time. We bring it in our conversations and you know, I just your voice was beautiful
(05:53):
and the work that you do is awesome. So, let's talk about that and how you really, I think
you really resonated, shook up, moved, however you want to, you know, start it. You did something
really brave and courageous and I'm grateful, you know, and I actually look back at your
letter quite often. I'm kind of getting well like I'm crying right now because of how grateful
(06:16):
I was to read that, um, this letter, you know, to the white woman who, uh, who wants to be
like me and a part of my journey is that I'm not indigenous enough, but I look at my family
and I'm like, Hey, how come I didn't get everything that they got? Uh, but that's also a challenge
for women like me who are indigenous, who are having space and place. I get the, you
(06:39):
know, um, this, the look up and down. What who's like, how indigenous are you? What percentage
are you? But I'd love to, before we really get into all of the other, um, beautiful work
we do, let's talk about this, this difficult conversation and how and why, and how did,
where did that come up? I know because I listened to your book and read it. Well, first I want
(06:59):
to acknowledge and validate that I think I can say all of us feel non-indigenous enough
because the, the colonial trauma that we've experienced. So I think that no matter how
indigenous we are, I think that we all have that similar wound and sometimes it plays
out. We play that out with one another. And I think that I want to just bring compassion
into that space for all, all people, because I think that identity, um, we're constantly
(07:24):
negotiating it, reclaiming it, um, healing with it. So I want to acknowledge, thank you
so much for that vulnerable share because I feel that too, right? I feel that too. So
this letter came about over years and years of me struggling. And at the time I was doing
a lot of in-person work, a lot of community work and circle work, um, private practice
(07:46):
work and social media wasn't really on the scene at the time as much as it is, as it
is now, but there would be people that I would see that would be taking our teachings and
they were non-indigenous. And for some reason they'd feel entitled to use them as their
own. And I was in a space at the time where I didn't feel like I could share any of my
teachings because I just felt I had all that trauma of them being taken and stripped away
(08:11):
and who was I to share these and who was I to even practice them. There was that barrier
of trauma in between me and the medicine. So I was struggling with that. And I think that's
really what started to spark within me. I was feeling anger, rage, sadness, grief, all
of these emotions arise every time I would see these people teach our teachings. And
(08:32):
I would think to myself, how is this fair? But I sat with it for a good five or six years
because I tend to be a person who likes to think about things. I'm not very reactive
and I want to sort of look at my own part in it and heal through it. But one day I couldn't
do that anymore. And I thought something really is happening and social media was just starting
to come alive and people were starting to share our teachings online. So you'd see a
(08:57):
lot of people use them in marketing ways. So they'd have like a sage stick just like
flying around the air. And it was, it was not used in a very reverent or sacred way.
That's a judgment perhaps, but I could feel that in my body. So I kept feeling the shaking
and shaking every time I feel it. There would be other folks using it. I wouldn't feel that
with. So it was just a very particular energy that felt like that co-opting or taking or
(09:21):
extractive that I could still feel in my body today. It's still a very visceral feeling.
And my friend that I would talk to you about it all the time, she's, she's white and she's
saying, I think you need to say something. I think you need to write a letter. So she
actually sparked the idea. And I had a blog at the time. Nobody read my blog. I mean,
(09:42):
some people read it. My clients did, but nobody else really read it. And I wrote this letter,
dear white woman who wants to be like me, because over the years, even since I was,
I was younger, a teenager, people would say, Oh my goodness, you're so lucky to be indigenous.
Oh my gosh. I love your earrings. Or, Oh, I love this. And I, I was an indigenous person
in the past life, or I wish I had a status card, or how do I get a status card? All these
(10:03):
things that we hear from, from non-indigenous people all the time. And I just felt like
this feeling of, I, I don't even feel worthy enough to take up space as an indigenous woman
on my own land. I need to speak about this. So I did. And I wrote this letter and I was
(10:24):
terrified to share it because again, I wanted to, I wanted to come from a heart place, a
heart centered place, because that tends to be my way. And I knew there was fierce words
in it and I knew that it would invoke something, but I didn't think so many people would read
it. So I put it out there on my Instagram and on my blog and it went viral and it went
(10:46):
viral pretty fast. And I wasn't ready for the, I'm going to say backlash or reaction
or interaction. At the time I didn't have a really big platform. So I wasn't ready for
all the people to respond to it. And some people responded with gratitude. Other people
responded. They were very angry and my inboxes were flooded with, and what it really did
(11:12):
was invited people and people just felt the invitation to tell me their stories. And you
have to imagine I, I am a space holder. I'd been a healer for 15 years. I'm used to listening
to people, but you have to imagine all of this unsolicited emails and messages of people
just wanting to tell their stories, which also shows we don't have enough spaces for
storytelling and story listening. Right. But I was so overwhelmed. I couldn't listen to
(11:36):
these pages. People would write the essays of their stories and, and why in past lives
are indigenous. So they weren't taking and trying to prove themselves to me. And ultimately
trying to get me to say, I wasn't talking about you or to validate them. And I didn't
have the capacity for this. I had two young, young children. My, I had a baby at the time.
I couldn't, I couldn't give them what they needed. So it was kind of a hard experience
(12:02):
to have something go viral and need not be ready for what was going to happen after.
And, but then also, it also opened up my, my platform and for me to be seen as an indigenous
woman. So it was also very beautiful. It was all beautiful. We don't ever know how people
will react, especially in reconciliation, truth and reconciliation. We have no idea,
(12:26):
you know, every space is different. So Eleanor, what do you think? See, first you're amazing.
Amazing. You're both so amazing. And this is great. I would have read the letter. I
will certainly look for that, but I know that that's what you entered into a contest. If
that's the right word with Hay House, which is a publishing company that I'm familiar
with Louise Hay is and her, her, how to heal your life book was transformative for my life.
(12:50):
And I share it with my clients all the time. I'm also a healer and one particular part
of your book jumped out because you won the contest and she got this book deal with Hay
House, which is amazing. The first indigenous woman. So you are the medicine, which is very
(13:11):
similar to, um, another guest we've had Dennis Wendigo. And he says, you are land, you are
medicine. And it's like, ah, yes, this is beautiful. And grandmother's voice has that
on a, on a sweater that I, I got as well. So this passage from the sugar moon, four
ways to love yourself unconditionally. And number one is unweave yourself from the story
(13:33):
of conditional worth. And this has been huge inner work for me personally, both white supremacy
and patriarchal conditioning have falsely told us that we are only worthy when producing
accomplishing new heights or gaining status somehow. Dr. Valerie rain coined the term
PSD and wrote the book patriarchy stress disorder to describe the ancestral and collective trauma
(13:55):
that affects those who identify as women. She believes that this prevents us from stepping
into our joyful success and fulfillment. And if this isn't the spiritual path to mental
health, I'm not sure what is. So one of the themes of this show along with truth and reconciliation
in Canada here is, is decolonization because as much as I, I honor decolonization as a,
(14:22):
an institutional policy practice, I believe it is also a spiritual mindset. It's also
a heart set. It's, it's in our bodies, this process of colonization. And you use the word
extraction, Asha, it's a, it's a process of extraction and exploitation. And as a settler,
I, I think on one branch of my family, I'm eighth generation Canadian from the United
(14:46):
Kingdom and I feel a responsibility to, to shift this narrative and how can we find a
path to peace? And I know that that begins with it. And so please tell us in your perspective,
Asha, about, about white supremacy and the patriarchy stress disorder. How does this
fit into colonic decolonization for you, please?
(15:08):
Oh, I like to, I really love the word re-indigenization. I think, I think colonization, decolonizing
is really important. And I really love, how are we going to have a vision for the future?
Because we can spend our entire lives unwinding, unweaving, doing the work, which I think is
so important. And then what are we going to replace it with? What is the vision that we
(15:30):
carry? How do we make more space and room for that? Because I think that that equal
is like an equal part that we need to hold space for. So I am here for the decolonizing,
but I'm even more here for the re-indigenizing and also even just taking up space. Like I
think space and land that has been stripped from us, feeling worthy of even taking up
space for me, it was for Hay House. It's like on the stage, taking up space on the stage
(15:55):
when nobody else who looked like me never has done that. So right now, sometimes I will
be honest, it feels like tiptoes, like my toes are there, but how can I breathe into
actually stretch that capacity out when sometimes those systems won't even make a room or space
for me. And that is a very real lived experience that happens in these systems of white supremacy
(16:16):
and patriarchal and capitalism and colonialism is the experience they are so used to extracting
and taking and colonizing and you know that it's like, what do you mean make space? We've
never done this before. So it's a lot of me stepping into a space and inviting other indigenous
folks to step into these spaces or folks of color. Because I think that I tend to work
(16:39):
with, you know, different intersections and saying like, actually, you are worthy of this,
you are worthy of taking up the space, you're worthy of even though the systems are telling
you that you're not. So for me, space is a huge, important part of this. Also, I want
to use entitlement as a word because I think that we can think that's like a bad word that
(17:01):
people feel entitled. But how do we practice healthy entitlement, feeling actually worthy
of okay, my voice is needed here. And it's been a huge practice for me in a very white
publishing world that is steeped in capitalism, colonialism, white supremacy. I have to practice
that it feels like every moment of every day of saying, Oh, I'm worthy of this space and
(17:26):
also navigating tokenism, navigating like being one of the onlys navigating the only
trailblazer and being the person that's sort of doing it when there's not a lot of people
to show me the way and I have to trust there are others just holding my hands and coming
along with me. So those are the ways that it's reflected in my own experience. And I
(17:48):
see how these systems will continue to perpetuate this harm. So we have to intentionally, intentionally
just negotiate that within our own energy spaces to say, I'm standing for this instead.
And that's what I hope my work does. And I hope it ripples out for other people to see
like you are worthy of this indigenous youth, you are worthy of having space made for you.
(18:14):
And how can I be that person that is leaving that legacy for the generations behind me?
So that's how it shows up for me. I love that you say you say you speak you speak my language.
I'm not gonna lie. I just I love I love love. And I think that as an entrepreneur, I've
(18:34):
been an entrepreneur for very young young age. And the work that that grandmother's
voice myself does in my own area is, is really trying to create those spaces for the the
two worlds will say to come together. And you said so much that I want to talk about.
So I'm going to try to keep my mind on track. The word that came to mind when you're speaking
(18:57):
of entitlement to me was something that grandmother Renee Thomas Hill speaks about when she's
in which she says peace, power and righteousness. And we get a lot of, you know, a lot of people
say, what do you mean righteousness? That's you know, can that be ego and no, you know,
it was not ego before capitalism, colonization, it was not it was knowing your place and in
(19:20):
the power that you have inside. So, you know, we have that conversation a lot. And it is
a challenge in those spaces and places. And that's what I found just so graceful about
your, you know, essence and what you deliver in your book and in your in everything that
(19:41):
you do and what you stand for is that space and place and you know, it's not even about
being safe. Like, let's just leave that out and just and just show up holy and open. And
how can we really move forward together on this path, you know, from truth to reconciliation
to relationship, or be relationship. And so you inspire me to stand in my power and and
(20:12):
encourage me to continue on my path. And over the last couple of days, so we I do quite
a bit of work in the corporate world. And that's that that's when you were like tiptoeing,
I was like, Oh, that is me. Because you know, you get in this space. And I've always sat
at these boardroom tables. I've been, you know, the only woman at some of these boardroom
tables. And, and now I show up and I say, you know, like 2325 years ago, I couldn't
(20:38):
bring spirit into that table. I used to get kicked by my husband under the table. Don't
talk like that, you know, or they don't understand. And now I show up with my to grow wampum.
And that's how I start the conversation. And then our contract is about let's, let's write
a letter of relationship and talk about this. And then if we're really want, you know, it's
(21:01):
not just a transaction any longer. And so it's a really deep so I just want to acknowledge
that I drop your book everywhere. When I'm finished my meetings, I say, you know, especially
to those who are really in their mind and want to do the work, but they just don't know
how to go lower. They don't, they just don't. And so I just want to acknowledge you right
(21:26):
now and thank you so much for providing me some language and some tools to show up in
those spaces to be grace for those wanting to learn more because I like I'm really controlled
right now, Asha, when you get to know me more, I'm all about let's do it. Let's jump in.
Come on, let's all be vulnerable. So I just want to acknowledge that and there's so much
(21:51):
in your book. I just want to acknowledge as well how you opened your book in this beautiful
ceremony and and how you create that space for people. And if there's if there's anything
that we can leave this circle with right now to give you that opportunity is to give you
(22:11):
that opportunity to share your message with the people that will see this. Besides listening
or buying the book or the cards, which I hope we get, we're going to ask you to pull one
of your cards before we move on or before we leave the space together. But if you could
share a message of inspiration to the people that will watch this video, what would happen
(22:36):
when you were talking? I mean, it always comes to me as a vision. So as you're talking, what
I felt was your first of all, your open heart, your open heartedness in the way that your
medicine shows up in the world and how courageous and brave it is to live with an open heart.
Because an open heart, there's there's really I mean, we guard ourselves so much, right?
(22:57):
We've guard ourselves with scrunch ourselves up and an open heart is vulnerable to these
things coming in. But also think about the beauty that can ripple out from an open heart.
So let's just actually somatically practice this. Let's take a breath and feel into can
I open my capacity to open my heart up a little bit more today in my relationships, in my
(23:19):
interactions, in my communications, knowing that my ancestors in the spirit worlds are
protecting me, knowing that I have animal allies and beings, the plants and the trees
and the waters, they protect my heart. They are here. They're holding me. Can I open my
heart a little bit and come from the heart and the spirit? You're so colonized to always
(23:40):
come from our minds. And as you said, let's drop in and drop into that truth that we are
land and we are medicine. And maybe perhaps feel what does the spirit of my heart feel
like look like sound like in the world? If I was to meet another, how could I relate
(24:05):
to their spirit of their heart? Just imagine all of us doing that together. How would that
look? How would that feel? We can open our eyes. I think that in all of the spaces and
places that I speak in, that I lecture in, that I talk to, I do a diverse, you know,
(24:27):
spaces or sometimes there's corporate, sometimes there's healing spaces. But what I noticed
the most is we want to always jump into that very colonial white supremacy way of being,
which is just like, mind, mind, mind, take notes, PowerPoints. Like, how can we like
get out of it? It's like, and I say, you know, they're like, well, even schools will say,
well, do we want to take notes? I said, these are kindergarten and grade one to three children.
(24:49):
They don't need to be taking notes. How can we like relate to each other and feel the
energy and the medicine and our bodies and our hearts and our spirits? That's what I'm
making room for is getting out of our, not that our minds aren't important, but we've
done that for years now. Can we just lay that down for a little bit? Because all the, all
the information coming at us constantly, 24 seven, we do not have the capacity to absorb
(25:13):
it, to integrate it and to live it out. We just don't because we're practicing, we're
not practicing mind and spirit and heartwork or spirit and heartwork for all up here. So
let's get into the heart. Let's relate to each other from the heart. And that's what
you do, Jody. That's what I feel so powerfully from your medicine. So make, wow.
Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Can we just make this like two hours long? We could keep going
(25:37):
and keep going. Do you have anything Eleanor before we ask Asha to pull a card?
Yeah. And I think this, this fits in another passage from the book that really resonated
with me. If we all lived in a reciprocal way, the flow of abundance would begin to cut through
the systems and structures that keep us down. Gratitude is the gateway for abundance. Practice
(26:02):
mindfulness, share, give back and walk with grace. If we all walked in this indigenous
way, our earth would heal. That is medicine right there in a paragraph. Thank you Asha
for sharing your medicine with us. I would love to hear a card.
(26:23):
I'm going to do a reading for everyone here. We're going to do a three card reading. So
this is from my sacred medicine, Oracle deck. And this is a dream. I had a dream of having
a deck since I was 20. And it was actually with Hay House. So I also want to leave behind.
Now I'm 46. So the dream took 26 years to come true. So please hold your dream in your
(26:44):
heart because one day it may come true. Okay, so we're going to do a three card reading,
one for the past and everything that you're just moving through currently, you know, like
the stuff that you've just woven through one for the present energies and then one for
the future. Okay, so let's see what do we get? Oh, so the past is the medicine bag card,
(27:09):
the gather card. So this speaks to different aspects of wisdom, different aspects of your
medicine, different aspects of healing that you've been going through and all the reclamation
that's been coming that you can now sit and hold in your medicine bag as knowing to teach
with the world. So this is actually an initiation to say, you've learned those lessons, you've
(27:31):
gone through those hard times and those challenges. Now what can you reclaim from that and bring
into wisdom so that you can share that with humanity, which is needed so much at this
time? What is in your medicine bag to share? What is the medicine that you're holding and
really cleaning that it's so important. And I think we're not, you know, we talked a little
(27:51):
bit about what was the word that you used. I loved it, but I was thinking about like
holding humility in a really beautiful way. Like we always think of humility as shrinking
or being small, but like, let's be with one with creation and see that we are medicine
keepers. We can do that still with grace. We can still do that and hold it in a non egoic
way. So the current is the shaker card, the truth card. Now this is quite the like activation
(28:18):
card. So this is the current card and there's a lot of activation going on collectively
right now. So we have a lot of fiery energy happening. Lots of things are burning up.
Lots of truth is surfacing. This is probably speaking to the collective energy. How can
you be part of it? What is your, your voice? What is your voice asking? And with this card
(28:39):
of the medicine bag, we're really asking like, what is the wisdom that you've claimed over
the last cycle or season? And now how can you put it into practice? Now how can you
actually be the advocate, the ally, the, the person of medicine who's speaking into the
world because we need, we need that. We need those voices to be brave. Um, we think about
(29:00):
courage and that letter that we talked about that took a lot of courage. Um, and it wasn't
easy, but it ended up being such a blessing. So your truth can too. Here's the future,
the full spirit moon card. The future is bright, beautiful ones. The future is bright. Um,
grandmother moon doesn't hide when she's in her fullness expression. She's just like,
(29:21):
I went through my cycle. Here I am. Everybody watched my shine and this is what's calling
to you. How can you step out in your fullest expression, those doubts, those fears, those,
um, what I call inner critic or inner oppressor voices. How can you tend to those that you
can actually let your medicine shine through in the fullness of what it is? So there's
(29:44):
a lot of, um, activation here of your medicine. You see, there you go. There you go. So the
future is good. Yeah. Oh, for you. That's so fun. And I think the best part, cause I
love Oracle Sue. Like I think, you know, for alumna, I'm not 46, but I, I've been that
(30:08):
path and been there, done that. Hey, house has been a big part of, of my journey too,
cause when there wasn't, when there, I wasn't connected, um, you know, they were there to
guide and it was, I was grateful. Um, and I am so proud to see you in that realm. It
is so amazing to see you there. So I'm proud, excited, uh, grateful for the space and time
(30:33):
and Eleanor for like, you know, pushing this and saying like, let's do this. Um, you know,
reconciling humanity is a passion for both of us, for both sides to bring, to bring the
people together in a time to shine. Uh, now what Asha, I want to bring you in person somewhere
where we are and join our circle, uh, next year and let's introduce you to our community.
(30:59):
I would love it. Um, in person, let's do it. Yes, do it. I'm so grateful. Thank you both
Eleanor and Jodie. This has been such a blessing to be with you. And I'm here to, I'm really
here to hold that vision of the bridge to just to have us all, we need all of us, right?
To come together for reconciliation. So make a wish with all my heart. Thank you. Now,
(31:19):
uh, thank you so much, Asha. And I perceive gratitude, which is a huge element of healing,
um, from your passage there, but humility as a deep sense of gratitude. Like that when
I, when I heard that. So thank you so much. Gratitude and, uh, for your time and space
(31:43):
here with us. And I would love for you to come to a grandmother's voice event next year.
That sounds amazing. It's so nice to be with both of you and, uh, just let me know how,
I'd love to share this too. Um, if I can, with my community. Yes. Thank you so much
for watching Reconciling Humanity on Skybird TV and Hopeful Radio. Very blessed for your
(32:08):
presence and your attention. And please share with us your feedback, your questions. Blessed
be.
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