March 26, 2025 • 64 mins
In this insightful episode of 'How Do You Divine?' we sit down with Chantel George, the inspiring Founder and CEO of Sisters in Sales. Chantel shares her journey towards bravery, inspired by her father's entrepreneurial spirit and her own unique experiences navigating corporate America. We delve into the origins of Sisters in Sales, a global community empowering women of color in sales, and explore the importance of authenticity, diversity, and resilience. Tune in to hear Chantel's powerful insights on entrepreneurship, overcoming challenges, and the crucial role of bravery in achieving success.
Pleas support Sistas in Sales by joining the community and partnering with the to deliver excellence. Follow on Linkedin and social platforms
Songs Mentioned in this episode:
- GBM Nutron Feat. Fay-Ann Lyons - Scene
- GBMNutron - Down Dey (Uncle Joe Riddim)
- PARDY. Machel Montano
- Carry It. Bunji Garlin
Thank you for listening and for always adding new dimensions to your definitions. Keep growing, keep exploring, and keep defining life on your terms.🌐 Explore the new website www.howdoyoudivine.com
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Meet our Founder & Host 🎙️
Sanika is a storyteller, communicator, and creator passionate about exploring self-discovery, culture, and the power of words. With a background in technology and marketing communications; she has built a platform dedicated to authentic conversations that inspire growth, challenge perspectives, and amplify voices.
As the host of How Do You Divine?, she invites listeners to redefine meaning, embrace transformation, and navigate life—one word at a time. Her mission? To create space for reflection, empowerment, and deeper connections through storytelling.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Welcome back to how do You Divine?
Where we explore how one wordhas transitioned over the course
of our life.
We are experiences and ourdefinitions.
And today we explore the wordbravery with Chantel George, the
founder, and CEO of Sisters inSales.
Sisters in Sales is a globalforce redefining sales
(00:21):
leadership for women of color.
Established in 2018, we'vecultivated a thriving community
of exceeding 12,000 powerhousesales leaders across diverse
industries.
Our members consistently shatterrevenue goals, dominating the
sales landscape, and empoweredby supportive network, skilled
(00:42):
sharpened resources andexclusive events, partnerships
that expand across multipleregions.
We'd like to welcome ChantelGeorge to the podcast.
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
This is so awesome.
I feel like when I first metyou, I was just blown away.
Not only by you, you have likesuch.
(01:02):
An infectious energy.
Oh, thank you.
But the community that you'vecultivated, I keep saying, where
have you been all my life.
Thank you.
Speaker (01:10):
And you're amazing too, and I'm so appreciative to be
here.
Thank
Speaker 2 (01:13):
you so much.
Yes.
So I, we are gonna explorebravery today, right?
So I wanted to ask you how, tellme the road towards bravery for
you.
Tell me the early days wherelittle Chantel was like, this is
a brave moment.
Speaker (01:27):
Yeah.
Okay.
Good question.
So I've had a lot of ideas as achild, like very silly ideas,
very serious ideas, likeeverywhere in between.
Um, and my dad was like mybiggest champion for my
entrepreneurial spirit and mygrowth and my experimentation.
And he had worked for the cityfor 25 years as a building
(01:48):
instructor, uh, buildinginspector and retired by the
time I was born.
So I was a late baby.
Nice.
Yes.
It came with some
Speaker 2 (01:56):
challenges.
Speaker (01:57):
Listen, there's
Speaker 2 (01:58):
challenges on both sides.
That
Speaker (01:59):
is, there is.
But my dad had remarried late inlife again.
And his wife, my mom wanted achild.
And so my dad is um, 60 I thinkalready by that time.
And so he's starting over nowwith me.
Aww.
And so he, the apple of his eye,he has so much wisdom to pass on
(02:21):
to me.
And basically he was moving intoentrepreneurship at the same
time that he was being my dad.
And so I watched him take all ofhis lessons from being a
building inspector and turn itinto starting his own real
estate enterprise.
And so when I would come to himwith ideas, he would just say,
just jump in, just do it.
(02:42):
Just,'cause he was, you know,when you talk to other
entrepreneurs, that's the energythey give you.
It's like, let's just do it.
Yeah.
We gotta try.
Right.
They're go deep.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They're very like passionateabout just getting started to
imagine.
I'm like 5, 6, 9, 10.
And that's his answer foreverything.
Oh my God.
Because he's already such's ablessing though.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah.
While I'm like, whoa.
But that's such a blessing whereI think other parents, that's
what I'm saying, it's a blessingon both sides.
'cause I think other parents,they're more like, all right
babe, calm down.
Yeah.
Go to school, right.
And relax.
Speaker (03:14):
No, not when you're like the kid of a much older dad
who has gone out on his own.
And you know, I'm doing salescalls with him and I'm his first
secretary.
Nice.
Yeah.
So I watched the beginningjourney of an entrepreneur by
watching how he moved and how heoperated and how he was not
(03:35):
afraid to take risk.
So I think that it's embedded inme.
To take calculated risk and butthey're both gone now.
So my dad and my mom passed awayover the years.
That's okay.
Um, and I still have that spiritin me.
So we have this one body, youknow, we're only here for a
(03:55):
short period of time, good, bad,or otherwise we might as well
try to actualize our dreams.
And so that's how it allstarted.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
That is so nice and it's so beautiful that at such a
young age you were empowered tobe a be not only an
entrepreneur, but be a leader.
Like, could you imagine himbeing like, yeah, that's my
daughter.
She's a secretary.
She's, she's helping me close.
Big, realistic.
It's crazy.
I know, but it also normalizedit.
Yeah.
Right.
Where I think from, like for me,that's later in life where it's
(04:24):
you're the one and only out heretrying to be an entrepreneur
girl, go, go to work.
Yeah.
You know?
And where it's the opposite.
That's so good.
That essentially he helped embedand bravery in you.
Speaker (04:36):
Yeah.
And I think that maybe this is agood thing for your audience to
think about because I, I knowthat some people are afraid for
entrepreneurship because theyhave a family and because they
have a lot of risingresponsibilities.
But that is the benefit of, ofbuilding out loud in front of
your family.
Yes.
They get to see you do thingsthat inspire them to do those
(04:57):
things.
And even though they're bothlong gone, I do believe that
they're seeing what I've done.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yes.
I a hundred percent.
Yeah.
They're like, look at my babyshine.
Yeah.
You said, when I tell you thattouched me so deeply,'cause
that's why I, for a long time,the podcast exists since 2020,
but it was like, I don't wannasay my hidden secret, but it was
like compartmentalized, right?
I'm like, it's over here, right?
While I do corporate member overthere.
And I realized that my daughterswere seeing me compartmentalize
(05:26):
in a way that didn't allow me toshow up as my full self right
now, since I've ripped thebandaid off, I wanna say for the
last two years, they're soengulfed by it.
They're like, mom, how do you dothis?
And what do, why would you dothis?
And it's just like, if it make,it gives me a different energy
and purpose.
oh wait.
They're watching.
Yeah.
Everything I'm doing.
(05:47):
Yeah.
And they're seeing that, oh, inorder to, maintain a nine to
five and build your business.
Yeah.
We have long days, we have 18hour days, and then I wake up
and I do it again, that's sogreat that from an early age it
became a normal thing to you.
You know what I mean?
So how did you navigate thatfeeling of not independence, but
(06:07):
I can be a powerhouse on my ownwhile working in corporate
spaces?
So tell us about your journey,right?
You went to school, you enteredcorporate America.
Speaker (06:17):
Um, I always had a little bit of an untraditional
journey.
So, um, first and foremost Iwent to boarding school and that
gave me a lot of independence.
Yes.
And it changed the way I thoughtabout ownership of my own life.
Because when you're 14, you liveaway from your parents.
(06:37):
Like, you're not the, you know,corporate America is not your
family.
Right.
Um, and I started to feeldistance between the
institutions that I was a partof and my individuality.
These institutions are not myfamily.
So you're 14 and you're livingin a dorm and you have all this
(07:00):
authority around you.
Usually 14 year olds are aroundtheir parents and their parents
give them rules on because oftheir own good.
Yeah.
But the, there was now this wallbetween myself and, the people
that were caring for me inthese, in this boarding school
where I started to understandtransactions.
(07:21):
'cause it's, it's not familialand it's not, um, I won't say
it's not warm, but it's familialis the only word that I can
think of at this time.
So, for example, if I need to.
Spend my day in a way that helpsme achieve my goals.
I don't have to argue with youabout it.
You're getting paid to careafter me.
I just tell you what I'm goingto do.
(07:42):
I do those things and I'm backat the deadline.
Right?
So I have so much ownership overmy life and my time when I would
come home from boarding schooland I would have the same idea.
It wouldn't work that way.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
No, no, no.
You know, and I like you have a
Speaker (07:55):
Caribbean parent.
Exactly.
And like, there's thisnegotiation.
Don't past, please.
There's this back and forth.
Yes, there's this.
Well, you'd have to wash yourdishes first.
There's this Well, where, whoyou gonna be with?
Where's you gonna do what yougonna wear?
You know?
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Yes.
Speaker (08:09):
And so I had been oscillating back and forth
between those worlds at a youngage, you know, knowing how to
deal with people that are notyour family, but have authority
over you and how to deal withpeople that are your family and
have authority over you and havecare for you.
Um, and a lot of people enterthe workplace thinking that work
is your family, because that'stheir first time engaging with
(08:29):
authority in that intimate way.
And I had already had that fromboarding school.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Interesting.
So,
Speaker (08:35):
um, I knew that these people weren't, like, they're,
you know, again, being paid tomanage me.
Yeah.
So I didn't have the sameemotional ties to management,
um, as some other people didwhen they were entering those
spaces for the first time.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Interesting.
Speaker (08:52):
Um, and so, yeah, so I did boarding school.
I, I got a job in tech working,um, at, at Yelp in its early
days.
Um, actually somewhere aroundhere where we're shooting, it
was one of its first offices onin Union Square.
Yeah.
On 15th Street, actually.
And I was one of the only blackpeople there in the sales class.
And, um, I, I gamified it.
(09:14):
I was like, okay, these whiteboys are gonna do 90 calls.
I'm gonna do 120 calls.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yes.
You
Speaker (09:19):
know, and I just, like I said, like I went into it with
a mindset of their, you know, Iam separate from this engine.
I'm not emotionally necessarilyconnected in the way that some
other people are, and I'm ableto get the work done.
And so I think I've always hadthat battery in my back when it
came to that.
And then I also, I was able topush back at the institution
without bringing a lot of that,um, emotion, em, emotional
(09:43):
headiness people, you know, whenyou have your first job, I don't
know if you, you know, rememberyour first job and how
psychological and how heavy thatjob is, or remember your first,
if you've ever been fired or hadtough conversation.
I feel like you're disappointinga parent.
Yes.
You know, it's so heavy.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
That is so interesting that you share that
experience.
Because I entered the corporateworld with a similar, but not
for that reason.
Like, so I lived on my own veryearly, since I was 17 years old.
So I've always had to learn howto manage my life.
Like I signed myself up forcollege.
I did all the things by myself.
So when I entered the corporateworld, I didn't even enter it as
(10:23):
family.
I entered it as.
I am providing you a service.
Yeah.
You are cutting me a check.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
And because I like people, I very early on
disconnected people from theirroles.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
when it was time for business, Iwas like, no, no, no, that's
not, no, thank you.
That's not how this works.
And I've seen that especiallynow in technology and I think
post covid days where people, Idon't know if enmeshed is the
(10:49):
right word, but they start tothink that work and personal are
one.
And there's no, I call itemotional cap.
'cause that's the only way forme to articulate it properly.
I'm like, there has to be anemotional cap when it comes to
your professional career becauseyou don't own this company.
Right.
You don't own this company andyou're here to provide a
(11:11):
service.
So it's so interesting hearingfrom you that you kind of came
into that because of yourbackground.
So you were like.
I manage my day.
I am giving you my day.
This is how I'm gonna gamify mygame.
Yeah.
It's so, yeah.
Speaker (11:26):
Interesting.
And so because of that, I didn'tfeel bad building, you know,
building initiatives that, thatwere purposeful to me.
Um, because I've given you whatyou required and whatever I'm
doing out of that time is mytime.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yes.
And you don't own my Yes.
You don't own my life.
Yes.
You don't own my, yeah.
But it's so, but you get sucked
Speaker (11:48):
into it.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Yes.
You can get,
Speaker (11:49):
yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
And it's also, I feel like it's this bad reward
system.
It's like the, you, they call itlike the golden handcuffs in a
way.
Yeah, of course.
Yep.
Give me your entire soul.
Yeah, yeah.
And we'll go, oh, we love you somuch.
Here's a few dollars, here's,yeah.
But then that's it still, itstill doesn't make it yours.
Speaker (12:06):
Well, especially in tech, because that was my whole
life, uh, my work experience.
Yeah.
And so, um, even though at thetime the company was still, um,
growing, it still had, uh,elements that kept you in the
office.
It had the beer and the keg, ithad the pool table.
It had, you know, um, the snacksand, you know, eat enough of
(12:28):
those snacks.
And it could be dinner, youknow, you could end up hanging
out till eight or nine o'clock.
You know, a lot of those thingsjust would just happen naturally
because of the different perksand the elements of the office
life.
Um, and so you just end upgiving more and more and more of
your time unintentionally.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
What do you think about that culture?
Because it always rubbed me thewrong way.
It really did.
Like when I was in tech, when Iwas in fashion, that culture
always rubbed me the wrong way.
That.
We are expected to be there.
I, let's say nine o'clock, butI'm a morning person, so it's 8
45 to be ready for the 9:00 AMmeeting.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Yeah.
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
But then there's this snacks, games, culture, and then
you blink and it's like eight,nine o'clock, and people are
talking about what we're goingto do for dinner.
And I'm just like, and I'm, Iremember vividly multiple
different places where I'm theonly one checking for it at four
40.
Yeah.
I'm the one, like, the time willgo off and I'm wrapping it up
(13:25):
because I'm going home to mykids.
Yeah.
I have a family, I have rightthings to do and homework to
check.
Yeah.
But it, it was like you leavingalready?
Yeah.
It's five o'clock.
Yes.
It's time to go.
It's time to leave.
But what do you think about thatculture?
Speaker (13:40):
Do
Speaker 2 (13:40):
you
Speaker (13:40):
feel
Speaker 2 (13:40):
like it's
Speaker (13:40):
part of.
I mean, I can answer that in twopo.
Two, two ways.
As a CEO, your job is tomaximize profits and people, you
know, the longer they do workfor you, the more profit they
can bring drive for you.
So there is a reason thatcultures are designed that way.
It's to maximize the amount ofrevenue you can bring to that.
(14:01):
Do I agree with it?
No, but it exists because itworks,
Speaker 2 (14:05):
but it doesn't always work.
'cause I would be theresometimes and then you have the
time y'all hanging out, youreally, it's only like four
hours of real work.
It's that
Speaker (14:12):
emotional tie though that they have.
Oh yeah, you're right.
Royal and the retention.
Yes, you're right.
That part about it is true andit's expensive to hire people.
So I'd rather get you to be verylike obsessed with this company.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah.
Speaker (14:28):
Where even in your downtime you're thinking about
it.
I used to have dreams aboutdeals.
You know what I mean?
Oh my gosh.
I used to have dreams aboutDocuSign.
So it just gets in, it justtakes more and more and more of
your capacity.
Um, so I was able to build sisbecause I had some of those
natural boundaries in my head.
(14:49):
Um, and I was able to take timeaway and work on it, um, at
night, on the weekends, youknow, sometimes during the days
Speaker 2 (15:00):
not
Speaker (15:01):
gonna
Speaker 2 (15:01):
talk about that.
Exactly.
But, but yes, but also how, butwhen did you always start sis,
right?
Which is Sisters and sales.
Did you always start sis outloud?
I don't know if that's at theright term.
Right, because like for me, I'mlike, I built the podcast
silently in a corner.
But, but did you build sis outloud?
Not out loud in the sense like,you were like, Hey, people I
(15:23):
work with, I am building sismore like.
You built it and you were like,whoever came across it, came
across it.
Speaker (15:31):
No, the first, um, no, the, the former.
I was like, I'm gonna buildthis.
Um, well, it started with twothings started at the same time.
So first I started interviewingdifferent sales professionals
and getting their stories andwriting blogs, putting it on, on
a website.
So that was pretty cool.
I was very fascinated withpeople and how they got from
here to there.
(15:51):
Yeah.
Very interesting.
That's why I built thissoftware.
Same.
I love it.
I got to that point because Iwas tired of cold calling and
feeling like I didn't know wherethis job was taking me and
looking around and seeing thatpeople were making career
shifts.
You know, this guy, I'm coldcalling next to setting
appointments, closing andpitching.
Next thing I know he's like,director of sales at this
(16:12):
startup.
And I'm like, this guy.
You know what I mean?
Like, Bailey closing two deals.
You know what?
Oh my gosh.
So that's why I was like, allright, when I say that too much
going around.
Something isn't, and I can't behere for four years.
Yeah.
And not have the tea.
Yeah.
So that's why like, so that wasreally like part of my
(16:34):
exploratory, um, this, so yeah,I had to be open and bold about
it.
'cause I'm, I'm writing aboutpeople's stories, so you, but
the other way that I created theevents side of the business was
having a dinner where I invited10 sales professionals to
dinner.
And I also had to be pretty loudabout it because I needed people
to like latch onto the idea andbe interested in the brands.
(16:56):
Um, and I learned, you know, uh,I served predominantly black
women.
Um, while I think a lot aboutour professionalism, we like to
go to nice things.
You know, there's a statementthat I read recently.
You're starting a company thatmeans you're starting a brand.
Yeah.
I never really saw myself as abrand, but, um, I needed to
(17:20):
think like that because myconsumers.
Need to feel connected to myidea.
Not just because it's practical.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Yeah.
But
Speaker (17:29):
because it brings them a certain emotional reaction.
And so like to do that, thatmeant I had to create a fancy
dinner experience that peoplewould like because it's not just
enough to say, I'm giving youthis professional development.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Yeah.
Speaker (17:44):
They needed to feel like they were invited to this
luxurious moment.
And I realize these things haveto always go hand in hand, even
though like sometimes I thinkit's frivolous, I'm like, do I
really have to do you got to.
Yeah.
That's just human nature.
I can't change how peoplerespond to brand.
So the first private dinner wasa private chef.
I had pink, black, whitetablecloths, I had flowers, I
(18:07):
had candles.
And the private chef is goingaround and catering to all these
women and they don't have tolift a finger.
Love it.
And they're getting red wine andwhite wine and all these things.
I love that.
And I'm like, you know, mostpeople's kickoffs, I think are a
little bit more subtle.
Yeah.
But not how, not how we do
Speaker 2 (18:25):
it over here.
Say, okay, how you
Speaker (18:27):
doing here?
And I just know my audience.
And like, I also had an, um, a,I also had an a seed I wanted to
plant in their head, which isthat you're valuable.
Yeah.
And you are important.
And I know that's what I was
Speaker 2 (18:41):
thinking when you said that.
Yes.
Speaker (18:42):
And when this dinner is over and you're gonna go back to
your white space and you'regonna go back to having a fight.
You know, for quota or having tofight your, your colleagues, I
want you to remember that Ithought about you, you know, the
night before.
So it it was twofold.
Yeah.
But, um, but yeah, I neverreally, I, I couldn't build
small because I knew ouraudience.
(19:03):
Yeah.
They need to know that they're apart of something that's serious
and that's beautiful andbeautiful
Speaker 2 (19:09):
because yeah, when I attend event, I was, that's what
took me first.
I was like, this is sobeautiful.
It was just like, but that's so,like, you're so right as you're
saying that.
I'm like, but it's true because,you know, what does I think does
stay with people?
It's, I'm one of people whoattended year events and I was
like, oh my God, I love this.
Where it's been, it, it's justthat sense of enough.
You are enough.
(19:29):
You are seen here because likeyou said, in these buildings and
these spaces and these corporatespaces, it's like you could be
valued as a contributor or as aleader, but there is something
different about thebeautification of being
together.
Yeah.
That.
Solidify something more.
Yeah.
Like, you know what I mean?
It, I don't, I don't know whatit is.
You can't tangibly put yourfinger on it, but it, it does
(19:51):
make, even like you said, theinternal bureaucracy of it all
and just trying to get to quotaand make these things not as
impactful.
This
Speaker (19:59):
is is also very masculine.
Yeah.
And so it's like you don'treally get enough femininity in
business and, um, becausethere's so much in, especially
in New York, there's just somuch backstabbing and there's so
much just aggression and there'sso much, you just have to be on
edge a lot of the time.
(20:20):
And so like, I just didn't wantthat anymore.
It's like a relief of, you know,even you, when you came on, um,
our, uh, platform yesterday andyou talked and you were able to
talk about your sales strategy.
In a very sister like way
Speaker 2 (20:35):
like
Speaker 3 (20:36):
that.
So Wonderful.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
And say, and you know what's interesting?
I, I get that a lot even fromthe people I work with.
'cause I, I learned very earlyin my career that I'm not going
to adapt to these environments.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like, you know how people arelike, I am just, I'm a
camouflage.
Yeah.
When I was in college, I wasprobably like 18 hard times.
(21:01):
Baroque like, and it, I was justhaving a bad week.
I remember had no clothes andI'll never forget it because my
boyfriend at the time now, myhusband said.
Why don't you just buy fiveshirts from like Footlocker?
Remember when Foot Footlocker orfive different colored T-shirts
for like$20 or something likethat?
It was crazy.
(21:21):
But he was just like, you don'thave those clothes.
Just buy those and wear those toschool.
You'll be fine.
Like, and that was his way oftrying to cheer me up because I
was just like, need to feel andlike myself in the midst of all
of this adversity.
And I remember I bought like my,so I went to Long Island
University.
I bought like the sweats for theschool, so I would just wear the
(21:42):
sweats and one day I was justhaving a bad day and I like put
the hoodie on and I hatehoodies.
Fun fact, like that's not myvibe.
I put the hoodie on and I wentto class.
My psychology teacher wasprobably like two months into
school.
I went to the back of the classand I just was doing my thing.
And as he, he's like, sunga, Ineed to see you real sharp.
And everyone was like, Ooh.
And I was just like, this mandon't even know me like that to
(22:04):
me, calling my name like that.
So then I was like, yes,professor, how can, what
happened?
And the way he classed me,Shannon, he was like, this,
this, that you're doing, I don'tknow what's going on with you,
but this will never work foryou.
You're meant to stand out.
So when you do things like this,it makes you stand out more.
So whatever's going on with you,figure it out.
(22:25):
But don't come back to my classlike this.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
The way I feel like he, yeah, I, I remember leaving
the school in tears, going tothe train station, like, this
man don't even know me.
Yeah.
But he, yeah, he saw somethingin you, but he saw, he was like,
this trying to hide makes youstand out more.
He was like, if you didn'tnotice throughout the whole
(22:50):
class, everyone just kept goinglike this.
Because this is what you are,you come to class, you're
engaged, you do stop this.
And in that moment, somethingabout that season in my life
taught me that I stand out.
Girl.
Girl, you stand out like you do.
And it's a beautiful thing.
I, but you know, when you'rejust going through stuff, you
(23:11):
just wanna be there, but justnot be there.
You just wanna get through itand be whole.
I'm all about being like wholeand well Sure.
And that season of my lifetaught me like there's no hiding
in life.
Just be who you are.
So when I got to corporateAmerica, and like you said was
like the one, sometimes the onlywoman, the only black woman at
(23:35):
many companies, like the entirecompany.
I was just this is who I ambecause I just, there was no
running from it.
And I also don't want, it's notmy responsibility to make anyone
else comfortable.
So it was very much standing inSonika.
So I
Speaker (23:54):
remember when I interviewed for a sales manager
role, my first interview, and Iwalked in the room, um, and
there were like three peoplebehind the table prepared to
interview me.
Um, I was a rep.
I had done some work on the sideto prepare.
I knew that they were gonna goover my numbers and they were
gonna go over my like,managerial perspective and maybe
(24:18):
some role playing and someexercising.
I walked in and I felt like, andI don't know if you remember
feeling this or if you've everfelt this way, because we're so
far away from those early daysin our career, but I just, I put
on like a persona, like I.
(24:41):
I totally get what you need.
I just like opened the doorlike, hello?
Like, I just like Chantel.
Why don't we all have the sameexperiences?
It's so, it was so weird and Iwas like, and so obviously I
didn't get it, but you know whatI mean?
But I did it again when I wasmyself.
But to your point, one of thethings that I learned about
(25:03):
business that I learned fromthat very strange interview is
that people trust, people theylike, feel an authentic
connection with.
But if you put a mask or likethis character in between here,
then there's something in themthat feels uncomfortable.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
Yes.
Speaker (25:20):
That makes them not wanna do business with you or do
anything with you.
And so in my mind, I didn't havea lot of black women, women in
general sales, sales managers tolook up to.
So I was impersonating a whiteman walking in the door and it
was not me.
And, and it's actually not.
Like, and they watched me as arep, so clearly they're like,
(25:41):
like, who did she just become?
She became somebody new.
So I think that, um, you know,to your point about like
standing out and like the waythat you're able to relate to
your clients and to your companyand why they love you, why they
all con continue to, you know,love you and wherever you go
you'll have these reactions.
It's because you're yourself andit's easier to trust someone if
(26:02):
you can understand them.
Yeah.
You know, it doesn't mean thatyou're always gonna win
business, but it just means thatyou don't get that icky feeling
when you talk to someone.
And like, I was giving that offbecause I wanted to be manager.
Yes.
Like, I don't, well, you know,
Speaker 2 (26:15):
but it's, but it's fair though.
Yeah.
Because I, I remember the samewhere it was like fill in the
gaps for them.
Like, what are you, yeah.
Like, I'm like, I'm black, butyou're mixed with some, like,
you know what I mean?
It's, yeah.
I remember those early days andI just, I just didn't like it.
I always felt like.
That's why I'm so strong in myfaith.
God gives me this compass ofthings that just don't feel good
(26:36):
to me.
Yeah.
And it's hard it, when I tellyou it's hard sometimes it's
like heavy lifting.
To even be in spaces and havecertain conversations.
And as I got older I started totrust it more where if it don't
feel good, just just back up.
If you have to say too much, ifthere's too much like winning
and you know.
Yeah.
I don't, I always feel like Inever want no one to feel I need
(26:58):
to drag you in.
Yeah.
Or like hard sell you anything.
Yeah.
Because it's just is thishonoring to the person.
This is business.
And funny enough on in ourcompany, I'm one of the people
that's always like, all right,now that we're done with the
emotions, where are we withforecast?
Where are we with what'shappening?
Because I understand theemotions of it all, but business
is business and I can.
(27:19):
See a person and talk to themabout, listen, this is ideally
what the numbers we want you tobe.
This is where we are now.
Tell me how we bridge the gap.
But I'm not going to manipulateyou and tell you this is
happening and this is not gonnahappen.
Because one, I don't wanna bepart of all that.
Like if I'm, if I'm true, if I'mhonest, I'm such a strong
believer in karma.
(27:39):
I'm just like, I don't want noneof this to come back on my kids
just because we trying to makequota.
Like I really don't like, Idon't, it's true.
I know I don't, and I don't wantit.
And it doesn't feel good.
And I feel like, just going backto our experience in corporate
America, I feel like a lot ofpeople don't realize that in
order to be successful, there'sa lot of not feeling good
(28:00):
moments that happen.
That it's you're in a meetingand they're talking about it and
it's yeah, we wanna get there.
But it's just not, it's not howI wanna get there.
You know?
Like I've, I remember leaving acompany saying this is not who I
am.
There was a dispute with aclient and my mentor once said
to me, if it's right for theclient and it's good for the
(28:20):
company, it's the right thing todo.
And I always like how simple sheput that.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
And there was just this abuse dispute, but what was
right for the client and it wasgood for the company and the
person that was supposed tochampion, it just didn't feel
like it was a priority.
And I just, again, justseparating that like church from
state, the person from the job,I was like, it doesn't matter.
Like this is how I feel I could,like, I could like or dislike
something as sonika.
(28:47):
But if it's good for thecustomer and it's good for the
company, it's the right thing todo.
Well,
Speaker (28:53):
I think that we don't always know if something is good
for the customer because we arenot talking to them and asking
enough questions to be confidentin that.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Yeah.
Speaker (29:03):
Um, because we're so focused on showing up a
particular way, we're so focusedon our character.
Yeah.
Like showing up as if we're on astage versus spending time to
ask a ton of questions so thatyou can be confident.
Like the more questions I askand the more I can define the
problem, the more confident Ibecome.
Yeah.
Same.
And like my confidence.
(29:25):
And then that's why it was sofunny, Joaquin doing that
interview because I was likeputting on this air instead of
just like, instead of just likemaybe asking like, why are you
interested in me for management?
Like, what about me?
And then I would've learned thatthey liked me the way I was.
Yeah.
And that there was somethingabout me that they were
gravitating towards.
But instead I.
(29:45):
Didn't allow that flow of energyto go to and fro.
And so I think that, um, youknow, one of the, you know,
active listening is important,obviously.
so my non-traditional pathincluded going to acting school
and was conservatory
Speaker 2 (30:01):
not That's so interesting.
At school, yes, I did.
Speaker (30:04):
I I thought that I wanted to be an actor or
director, but really more so anactor.
Um, and so I went toconservatory for three years
before going to Pace and thenbefore going into the workforce.
And some of the things that Ilearned about acting, um, have a
lot to do with that fightbetween your consciousness of
(30:26):
the things that you're doing andyou know, the way that you
behave in the world versus whatyou think that the character
that you're playing is doing inthe way that that character is
behaving in the world.
So, for example, when you're onstage, you're really not
supposed to play a character.
You're supposed to be yourselfin the character scenario.
(30:48):
So you're actually supposed tobe closer to your individuality
than becoming a someone else,because you can't be, there's no
such thing as being like wordson a page.
It could only be how you wouldactually feel if these things
happen to you.
So when directors come to you inbetween takes and help you stay
(31:09):
in the particular mindset,they're not saying, what do you
think you know, Susan would doin this moment?
It's like, how do you feel aboutthe fact that, you know, God
forbid your grandma just died.
Mm-hmm.
And you're supposed to thinkabout what that means to you and
Speaker 2 (31:23):
how that would make you feel and how you'd respond.
Yeah.
That is so, that's a good way tothink about it.
Yeah.
Because I think, especially whenwe're in these spaces, when
we're like the only, and we feelinferior and things like that.
I do see that character, the,the safety in putting up this
(31:43):
character.
But like you said, it to me,that was very early on and after
realizing that I couldn't hide,like I, it's also exhausting.
Can't do that for years,decades.
And to me, I just can't do that.
I, I, I feel like it helped melearn like my strengths and my
weaknesses.
It's not something I can do.
I always say like, what, earlieron when my kids were younger,
I'd be like, listen, I don'teven have the patience to
(32:05):
pretend.
Right.
Like, I have to harness themlike rice, greens, and triplets
for my children when I go home.
Like, I don't, yes.
I don't have it to give.
Right.
So that's why I'm always like, Ican, nothing I can do about it,
there's, there's nothing I cando about it.
Yeah.
So I never thought about it as acharacter.
What I used to think of beforewas your perception of who I am.
(32:28):
And then I quickly was like,there's nothing I can do about
that either.
Nothing I
Speaker (32:31):
can do about that
Speaker 2 (32:31):
either.
There's
Speaker (32:32):
nothing I can do about that either.
So you might as well not exhibitany energy trying to change
this.
Yeah.
Change that.
Put on this character.
Correct.
This perception just, it's somuch easier and so much less
work to just be who you are.
Like I had a board meetingyesterday and I've been in many
board meetings as an attend,like as a, as a member of the
(32:55):
board.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Yeah.
Speaker (32:56):
And I've seen how people conduct the meetings and
how serious it is and Very, andthat's not how my board meetings
go.
Yeah.
They're just full of enthusiasm.
'cause I'm so excited.
I'm like, Hey guys, I have thisidea.
What do you think?
You know, let's brainstorm aboutit.
And I think that they like it.
I hope they like it.
Yeah.
You know, the way that we'redoing it because they feel very
(33:17):
interested and they're feedingoff of my enthusiasm.
Yeah.
But if I had like put on thisCEO very serious, like.
Had, and like everything has tobe this way.
I amm hand away all the minutes.
You know what I mean?
Like I just think that nobody isinterested.
Well, it doesn't feel real.
Yeah.
It's different that that is mypersonality than Sure.
But it's not.
(33:38):
So, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
But I also think you speak to something that I think
people are experiencing intraditional corporate as well as
being an entrepreneur.
Like what does, what feels real?
You know what I mean?
Because I think a lot of peoplesay like, I hate my nine to
five, because they feel like Ihate the environment.
I hate who I have to be here.
Yeah.
And it's like, what part?
To me, what parts of this isreal for you?
(33:59):
Because to me it's all aboutlike learning and growing.
If I'm not learning and growing,I'm dying.
Like I'm a plan that way.
It is just like, what am I doinghere as an entrepreneur?
The same.
I'm like, I don't like to justdo stuff to be doing stuff.
Like I, I wasn't even, I, I'venever been a partier, I've never
been like, uh, if it's not notyour birthday, please don't ask
me.
I like, I, I got things to do,laundry and all like, I like,
(34:20):
I'm just like, please don't.
But like, I don't wanna just dostuff to be doing stuff.
And I think sometimes because ofsocial media as an entrepreneur,
you feel like you've gotta beout here.
You have to be doing stuff.
And I talk to otherentrepreneurs, I'm well, what's
the tangible outcome for thatthough?
And that's why I love, mycompass is time management with
like micro professional, myprofessional career, my family.
(34:41):
I'm just like, if I'm gonna giveX I'm gonna need y.
Yeah.
I'm gonna need a Y because wejust can't be out here.
Willy Walling all over theplace.
So talk to me about like howyou, because I feel like you,
you were.
Nurtured with this sense ofbravery around you, how did you
help cultivate others towardsthat bravery to build such an
(35:03):
amazing community?
Speaker (35:05):
Hmm.
Well, um, you know, I alwaysused to say to my team that, and
I, so I answer that questionusing the team first and then
the community.
'cause I am very intimate,obviously the team, we talk
every day, all the time, all ofall of'em.
Somebody from the team, Erica,is actually coming right now to
my house.
She'll be there that tonight.
(35:26):
Um, as we prepare for aspiringsellers.
Yes.
Um, so when I'm selling CIS asan idea, a concept, I know that
I'm talking about my personalstory and you cannot invalidate
my story.
This happened to me as a youngsalesperson.
(35:47):
This was the outcome of thecorporate structure.
This is why it attacked myperformance because the more
alone and isolated I felt, theless I was able to produce.
Because you need confidence andgood energy to be good at the
job.
You know, any little thingunfortunately that you feel on
(36:10):
the sales floor could impact howyou pitch externally.
So you can't, like, as I'mtalking to companies and brands
about why they should sponsor orwhy they should pay attention
to, you know, this organizationI'm speaking, I'm, I'm not like
speaking from a script.
I'm not speaking on behalf ofsomeone that created something
(36:30):
else.
You know, I'm not thesalesperson of cis.
I am cis telling you this is areal problem.
Yeah, I know this is a problem'cause I'm intimately dealing
with said problems.
So bringing it back to the teamso they see me pitch with
enthusiasm and bravery.
I am not coming up with randomantidotes.
(36:50):
This is a real issue that I'vebeen through, and it en
encourages them to tell theirstory when they pitch because
they are a user of the brand andthey are also the consumer in a
way that I am impacting.
And so I think that, um, youknow, when you are building a
team, you want to find peoplethat have the same, it's never
(37:15):
gonna be exactly the same, but aclose enough desire to solve the
problem that you started tosolve already, a close enough
desire so that they are bravealmost by default, because now
you said to them, that problemthat you've been having, I
actually created a solution forit.
(37:36):
And you don't have to read ascript, and you don't have to
watch a thousand YouTube videosto understand it because it's
the problem that you have too.
Yeah.
You know, and so a lot of timeswe don't always have the luxury
to work at companies that aresolving something that you are
so passionate about.
(37:56):
But if you do, then it'll takeyour confidence level from zero
to a hundred.
Yeah.
It'll make you brave because youidentify with the problem that
the company is solving for.
Yeah.
So, um, so hiring is a largepart of, of how we are able to
instill bravery, like literallylooking for people or them
looking for me because they feelconnected to the, to the mission
(38:18):
of what we're doing.
Um, and then in terms of thecommunity, we're saying the
untold things.
We're saying unspoken things.
Yeah.
And that's giving them bravery.
We're just calling it out.
Like we know that there isprejudice and racism and.
Um, unjust practices happeningin corporate America,
specifically with black andbrown women, and on the sales
floor, that is no.
(38:38):
Can somebody come to my houseand beat me for saying that?
Like, you know what I'm saying?
The truth is the truth, but thetruth is the truth.
And so it's empowering, youknow, because sometimes our
community cannot say that forfear of rep being reprimanded.
Yeah.
For fear of being isolated, forfear of making, you know, Sally
and Johnny feel like, oh no.
(38:59):
Like, should we not be friendswith her anymore because she
thinks that we're all racist or
Speaker 2 (39:04):
whatever?
Yeah.
Is the thing.
And it's like you can't, but youcan't own that.
Cedreo
Speaker 4 (39:09):
I have conversations with many different
professionals from all walks oflife and the world, and I
understand that theirperspectives are different.
That's why I value the diversityin idea, the diversity in the
concept of the diversity incollaboration.
But I think part of that is alsoremoving that fear, right?
(39:33):
We all come from differentbackgrounds.
We all have differentexperiences, and.
Uh, different does not equate tobetter.
Different is just different, andespecially in the sales
community and the pursuit ofbeing a amazing sales
professional and also providinga value to your customers that's
outside of numbers is oneunderstanding.
(39:58):
People's objectives,understanding the things that
they value, not only in theirpersonal lives but in their
careers.
Everyone in a different positionin that organization has a
different objective.
They have something that theyare thriving to, so.
Always positioning myself tolisten, to learn, and then
provide value to me, I feel likehas been a successful strategy
(40:22):
in my life and in my profession,but also understanding that the
way in which we communicate toone another is important.
The way in which we listenbecause it's important to be
able to say.
Oh, I was excited and I'mpresenting this thing and I
(40:42):
thought you'd find value in it,but you didn't.
Or something I said in some orsomething that was said, was
said in an offensive way.
That's fine because we're alldifferent.
But it doesn't mean offensiveaction.
Offensive word equal.
You're a bad person.
It just means maybe you areunaware.
Maybe this is a learningopportunity.
(41:03):
Maybe there is space for theconversation.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
And I'm always reminding her that even a small
graze on a flower can take apedal.
People keep thinking that, it'sjust a mild graze.
It was just a one off comment.
But you could still take a pedaloff a rose with just a, a heavy
blow.
Yeah.
Is that fair To the rose?
(41:27):
No.
So it's just, it's, I thinksaying the uncomfortable thing
out loud brings everyone intothe conversation.
'cause I also don't want todiminish any, just like, I don't
wanna be diminished to my genderand my race.
I don't wanna diminish anyoneelse to their gender in their
race.
So I don't want them to, I don'twanna make the assumption you've
(41:47):
had this experience before andyou're aware Right.
But I also am naive to teachyou.
But if I am g graced, I'm theone to go, Hey, hey.
Excuse me.
Excuse, excuse me.
Um, that little comment, whileyou might've not meant it.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Offensively, let me tell you how it could be
offensive.
Mm-hmm.
Right then and there, and I, Ihave stopped many of
conversations and people arelike, yeah, well, like Sonika.
And I'm like, they
Speaker (42:17):
don't like conflict.
And that's the thing, you know?
Um, I'm going against the grain,so I'm inviting conflict, um,
and having to be okay with thatbecause ultimately, without cis,
without o other organizations,without someone saying that we
(42:40):
should not let this happen, itwould just happen.
Like people would just hire thesame kinds of people.
You would not get into certainorganiz, into certain companies.
You would experience a lot of,um, anti femininity, you know,
in the workplace.
Like there's, it's like a, it'slike a, a ball in motion.
(43:03):
It is.
And it's
Speaker 2 (43:04):
like, there's, but, and I also feel like why if you
are doing something, you know,we know it's for the right
reasons.
Why is that, why is thatinviting conflict?
Do you understand what I'm, Ifeel like there are so many bad
things happening in the world.
I know you guys watch the news,like there is so much craziness
happening in the news and theydon't, there is not this
(43:26):
conversation of, of course,that's gonna have repercussions.
Of course people are not gonnafeel good about that.
Of course, there'll beflashbacks, quotes, there'll be
there, there's not that muchemphasis on when the wrong
things are being done thatobviously conflict will come
their way, but when the rightthing is being done.
We subconsciously start to braceourselves for the conflict that
(43:51):
will come.
And I just, I don't know.
I've, I've just in the last fewyears have, I feel like the sun
has shifted where I'm notbracing myself in no heavy
nothing.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
Yeah.
I'm
Speaker 2 (44:01):
standing in the right, yeah.
I, I'm standing in integrity.
Yep.
So if anything that comes my waynegative or anything of, that's
all you.
That's all you.
I'm gonna stand tall in what I'msaying and my experience, but
I'm not going to, I don't know.
I feel like something aboutbracing for impact diminishes
the light.
Speaker (44:23):
Interesting.
I think that's a fascinatingtake.
I think that some of it islearned behavior, um, where they
see someone like a freedomfighter going out into the
street talking the truth.
I think people get nervous, andI don't know if it's because
they still wanna hear the truthof what that person may be
saying.
Um, or if they know that personwill be persecuted.
(44:45):
But, um, I think the brace forimpact comes from knowing that
we live in a world, specificallyin America, very capitalist
society, where it's all aboutthe bottom line.
Um, and you know, when we'retalking about diversity,
unfortunately we have to talkabout diversity being good for
the bottom line becauseemotional arguments don't seem
(45:07):
to win.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
But diversity is good for the bottom line.
Like that's, it is like, youknow, I'm a statistical nerd.
Yeah.
Like, that's where I'm justlike, I don't, that's where I'm
just like, take your emotionsand, and, and go, go away.
Go away from here.
I agree.
Speaker (45:22):
I agree.
Um, but we are surrounded by alot of individuals that are not,
also not creative thinkers.
But they're also not
Speaker 2 (45:32):
fact thinkers.
Yeah,
Speaker (45:34):
that's true too.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
And that's where I left to point out that we can
have a conversation abouteverything under the sun.
And I'm one of those people thatI'm, I'm, I'm here for it.
I wanna hear everyone'sperspective, but we still need
to know the facts or the facts.
The opinions.
Or the opinions.
The experiences are theexperiences.
You cannot manipulate factstowards your emotion.
(45:56):
Like, let's
Speaker (45:57):
be honest, it's a tricky thing.
You know, for me, I think that,um, with sis, we are not looking
to decondition or recondition,um, the minds of racists.
They made it their goal.
I mean, we are in a time wherepeople are deciding that this,
(46:19):
no matter what happens, they'renot going to change sides.
I.
The world could literally be onfire and like, you know, and,
and this, and the stubbornnessof these people are just what it
is right now.
And there's not much else.
And I'm not gonna live my lifetrying to change people's minds.
So I just can't, I work with thepeople that are interested in
(46:42):
common sense, and I, and facts.
And facts and, um, beautifulthings are happening at their
companies and in our community.
And that's it.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
Yeah.
Speaker (46:52):
And, and it's the levity that I need to keep
moving on with my day, um, isknowing that I'm solving a
problem for all of thesedifferent groups and everything
is great
Speaker 2 (47:04):
and you are doing such a great job about with it.
Thank you.
Like, it's, you've ma you'remaking such an impact, not just
in these organizations thatpartner with sisters and sales,
but to the overall community.
I feel like it's somewhat like abat.
A bat signal.
Yes.
We are here.
Yes.
Like, come find us.
You do have partner.
Partners in arms and incommunity to help.
(47:24):
Yeah.
Not just because we look likeeach other.
Yep.
But we are smart.
We are so smart.
We are smart.
We are revenue drivers.
We are the ones bringing in thedollars and keeping the lights
Speaker (47:35):
on.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
And at the end of the day, this is business.
So that's where I, when I don'tknow why would I hear people
that's like, di i, and it's,it's funny to me, I I have no, I
have no other reaction but tolaugh because it's the saying
you cut off your nose to spiceyour face.
Your face.
That's right.
Because say what you want.
(47:55):
It's, yeah.
It's where the money
Speaker (47:57):
is.
You know, yesterday when you ledthat workshop, no one can
contest that you, um, are not anaccomplished salesperson.
You are clearly, you know, yourstuff, you know, and, and so
many people in our communityknow their stuff.
But when you see them, um, youknow, on an interview slate, you
see a black face there.
(48:18):
You assume for some reason thisadministration has warped in
people's minds that this persondoesn't know their stuff because
of their skin color.
Why?
You know, whereas they probablyknow twice as much because
they've been preparing tocompete.
Exactly.
Um, I, I did tell that once to,um, an old manager.
(48:40):
Um, I was like, I don't know ifyou know this, but you know,
we're told to work twice ashard, which means that you're
getting a better rep on yourteam.
I know.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
I don't know if you, if you wanna make goal or not.
You know what I mean?
I was like, but that's where youshould
Speaker (48:54):
know this.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
No, but that's where I'm just like, what are, what is
your objective?
Right.
And that's to me, where Iseparate church from state.
Speaker (49:02):
Yeah.
Well, hatred, the hatred is, isgonna get in the way.
That's why we can't be bothered.
There's just too much, too muchnegativity.
We just,
Speaker 2 (49:09):
it's, it's comical to me.
I really can't even take itseriously.
That's why I think it's so funnybecause it's like you would hold
on to emotion mm-hmm.
Rather than meet your goal.
Yes.
Okay.
Yeah.
That's how successful this is.
Yeah.
And then you wonder like whyyour competitors are circling
(49:29):
you.
Like it's just, it's a funnything.
It's, but I wanna talk aboutentrepreneurship.
Sure.
Right.
Because I think there are somany people that understand the
value of ENT entrepreneurship,myself included.
Right.
And the bravery required.
I feel like.
Being an entrepreneur doesn'tonly, you have to be, like you
said, a calculated risk taker,but there's something about
(49:53):
your, not the thickness of theskin, but there's something
else.
There's something else there.
I don't know.
What's the proper terminologyfor it?
Speaker (50:03):
Um, well, I mean, I think long term all the time, I
think long, medium, even shortterm, um, I know that my actions
can change the course of mybusiness, so I'm no longer
reactive.
That's a habit that, you know,you form when you are on your
own and you're self-employed.
Um, I ha in a corporate entity,partnerships are very siloed.
(50:30):
So like you can either be adirect sales or account manager,
or you could be businessdevelopment or you could be
marketing, whatever it may be.
When you're an entrepreneur, youcan, everybody, anything you,
everybody.
So, you know the gentleman whoruns this studio?
Yes.
Gabe, there is a myriad ofdifferent ways we could partner
(50:50):
together.
Yes.
I don't have to say if I'm in acorporate structure, I'd have to
say, wait a second, Susan doesthis type of sale.
Yeah.
And then Susan say, no, Iactually don't do that.
This other person does this.
And so like, there are all thesedifferent layers and, and
bureaucracy.
Yes.
Um, but when you're anentrepreneur, you can find
collaboration with anyone at anytime in any way.
(51:14):
And that is the beautiful thingabout being an entrepreneur.
It's the diversity of the waysthat you can make things happen
with other people withoutcorporate structure getting in
the way.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
I like that.
That makes me gonna ask you, howhas your bravery surprised you
since being an entrepreneur?
Okay.
A
Speaker (51:35):
couple things.
So let's start from thepractical sense.
From the practical sense,depending on the way that your
business is designed.
Your business is not you, it'sits own thing.
Um, you know, there's limitedliability for example.
So that means you can put asmuch risk in it.
You can try a lot of things.
(51:56):
If it doesn't happen, close upshop, move on.
I mean that from a verypractical and just fundamental
answer there is that that didsurprise me.
And the reason it surprised meis because even though I had my
dad, I was still in a community,um, Caribbean and a Caribbean
American community, and thebusiness owners that I did run
(52:19):
into would go down with theship.
Yes.
Not because I don't think that,you know, I don't think they
were trying to, but they committhemselves
Speaker 2 (52:29):
to an
Speaker (52:30):
idea,
Speaker 2 (52:31):
a
Speaker (52:31):
singular entity.
And I just don't think theyunderstood.
Or maybe they did.
I don't know.
Um, all the options that areavailable to you that can give
you confidence.
So, as you know, our presidenthas, I think he's has seven
bankruptcies or how, howevermany bankruptcies.
Bankruptcy, right?
(52:53):
Bankruptcy, closing up shop,starting again, pivoting are all
options for you building inAmerica.
You literally can close up yoursmall business or your large
business.
You can bring on debt or not.
Like there's so much that it'sa, it's a trajectory.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:13):
Yeah.
It's a
Speaker (53:14):
journey at any time.
And you don't have to go downwith the ship.
If it's going poorly, you cansell parts of the business, you
know, and so I think the biggestthing was separating myself, my
identity from the businessstructure.
These are all the options forme.
If it goes in this direction,these are all the options for
(53:35):
me.
If it goes in another direction
Speaker 2 (53:37):
and, and seeing them as separate from yourself is
separate is really, it doesn'tmean I
Speaker (53:41):
failed.
If I need to go in thisdirection.
That's just the nature
Speaker 2 (53:45):
of the business entity.
Yes.
And now think you know that youjust unlock something really
important for me.
'cause that also makes me thinkof the industry.
Right.
I work in these very large comp,I work for a company that's very
large partnering with companiesthat are super
Speaker (54:00):
large.
And I'm sure all of them are inlawsuits.
All of them have a lot of debt.
All of them haven't beenprofitable.
And I've seen
Speaker 2 (54:06):
some of them that are literally going down with the
industry.
Yep.
Right.
Which has nothing to do withthem.
Speaker 3 (54:13):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (54:13):
But their industry is taking certain hits because of
regulations and compliances andall of these things.
Huh.
That is, that is a great way toput that, that you could, you
don't have to go down with everyship that you build.
Speaker (54:31):
No.
Speaker 2 (54:32):
Because each ship that's so, I don't know why, but
duh.
Because each ship.
It is in a notion of its own,it's in its own industry.
Yes.
And like if that industry startsto take on heavy waves, your
ship will be impacted.
That doesn't mean you go downwith the
Speaker (54:49):
ship, you don't go down.
But that is a very unique aspectof American business.
We literally have designed somany shortcuts and loopholes for
business owners to separatethemselves to, you know, sell
assets, buy assets, all of thosethings.
So when you're startingentrepreneurship, you're gonna
feel that the business is youand you are the business.
(55:11):
But eventually, that's thesurprising part, especially when
you start dealing withprofessional services like legal
and accounting and bookkeepingand what have you.
They will be on your side toprotect you, not just
emotionally, but also throughlegalities.
To put the business here and putyou over here.
(55:32):
And so, yeah, that was one ofthe things that was really
interesting and fascinating thatI've learned.
And, and the more you understandyour protections yes.
As an individual versus abusiness and vice versa, the
more risk you can take.
Speaker 2 (55:44):
Nice.
That is so smart.
No one, this is such a greatconversation for entrepreneurs.
That is awesome.
'cause I don't think anyonethinks of that.
Right?
I think people, especiallymyself, I'm like, this is my
baby.
But again, same thing too.
You're your baby.
I'm, you're your baby.
You know, my husband is, myintellectual property is my
baby.
My husband always tells me
Speaker (56:03):
that, um, he always talks about Dr.
Dre not, you know, he has a lotof controversy.
Yes.
But he always talks about, um,when Dr.
Dre invests in an artist, heinvests in the individual, not
necessarily about the particularproduct they've created at that
time, but it's like, I want you,because I know your brain and
(56:24):
your ingenuity and yourcreativity will create a
thousand things.
And I want all the things thatyou're going to create and all
the things that you're going totouch.
And so it's like, yes, thisbusiness is your baby, but you
are the genius behind it.
And if God forbid somethinghappens with this, you're gonna
create something else.
Speaker 2 (56:42):
Yeah, very true.
And something
Speaker (56:44):
else.
And something else.
And you're always gonna bethinking and always gonna be
problem solving.
So the true, you know, way to,you know, invest is to invest in
the individual that's building,not necessarily all the time and
the thing that they've createdat that particular time.
Speaker 2 (57:02):
That is so smart.
And I love, I, I think that'ssuch a great conversation,
especially for the audience.
'cause when you think of thebravery you need to be in the
corporate space and then thebravery you need for
entrepreneurship, you actuallyrealize that not that they're
different, but they're the levellike it, it.
It fluctuates in a way.
Yeah.
Right.
Because as an entrepreneur, yes,you're brave because you're your
(57:24):
own business.
You are running the ship.
I would say building the empire.
Yeah, you are building theempire, but there is so much
more legality and, and things onyour side, on the
entrepreneurship side versuswhen you're an employee.
And I think,
Speaker 3 (57:39):
yeah, there
Speaker 2 (57:39):
is this, especially in like the Caribbean culture
and black culture you're raisedI think now the millennials know
that we, we were sold a bag ofbullshit like we, uh, where it
was like, go to school, get agood job, save all your money.
Live your life in retirement.
Yeah.
Like that was what they weretold.
So they were like, I need tosell this to my kids.
(58:00):
Save, invest.
I dunno about that.
Maybe a couple of dollars.
Yeah.
But save.
Yeah.
Go to work.
Yep.
Stay at instead.
Work, be there for a long time.
Speaker (58:11):
I am.
My family is like, oh, so areyou going to work?
I'm like, I am.
I'm, I'm an entrepreneur, thisis my work.
Welcome.
And they're like, no, but are,you know, they're so accustomed
to you doing it for someoneelse.
Like, are you going to someoneelse's office?
Yeah.
Like, no.
Yes.
But yeah, it's hard for them tothink about it that way.
But, you know, as much as thereis a lot of chaos and, and
(58:34):
instability and all kinds ofthings happening in the world,
that is one of the benefits ofdoing business in America.
Speaker 2 (58:40):
Yes.
That is, that is such a greatthing.
And I wanna, I want us leavethere because I love how you've,
you basically were nurtured withseeds of bravery all around you.
Like your garden was grown withbravery.
Yeah.
Like, you know what I mean?
And as you channel throughmultiple different seasons in
your life from being an actress,to being, being a sales leader
(59:05):
and then now a CEO of an amazingcommunity and an organization
that's impacting so manydifferent organizations.
It, I think.
It just shows you that braverydoesn't look like X.
It doesn't look like,
Speaker 3 (59:19):
yeah.
Speaker 2 (59:20):
I am being brave.
Bravery is being in thatboardroom and feeling
uncomfortable and going, goodthing.
I have that idea that I'mworking on.
Like, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
But also knowing that I'm hereto provide a service.
Yeah.
And I'm providing that serviceat the best of my ability when
I'm done providing that service.
Right.
I'm going to go build.
Yeah.
Right.
And then also for those that arejust building, and I wanna be an
(59:42):
entrepreneur, and this is whatalso not to be attached to this
idea.
Like, this is my moment, this isgonna be my thing.
Because it also stifles you in away of not believing that you
yourself.
Have enough to continue to buildand don't go down with any ship.
Yeah.
(01:00:02):
Your first ship is not your onlyship.
Right.
And I love that bravery taughtyou that you can be, you can
multiply you.
You are the entity, you are theempire.
Yes.
That's it.
You got it.
That is awesome.
This was such a greatconversation.
I love you.
Thank you for having me so much.
And before I let you go, ah, youknow, we always talk about the
(01:00:24):
vibe of the week, right?
I think music drives our life.
It just helps keep us closer tothe sun.
Okay.
So what are you vibing on thisweek, Chantel?
What you vibing on?
Um, honestly, I was listening toSoca music
Speaker (01:00:38):
on the way down here.
Jump, jump.
It's car.
It's CarVal time in theCaribbean.
Yes.
Um, I was listening to, um, theGreatest Bend over.
Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
Oh, bend over.
Bend over.
I like Marsha Long.
Between Marsha, yes.
Speaker (01:00:59):
Gb m Neutron NI was listening to just like freedom
music.
I love it.
You know, carnivals anexpression of freedom.
It is.
And of, uh, being yourself.
I have a cousin, I love her todeath.
She's a genetic scientist andshe's so we well respected in
the, in the, in the medicalworld funded by so many great,
um, benefactors.
And you know, when you see her,she's very serious.
(01:01:21):
Yes.
But she's in carnival right now.
Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
Listen, why John?
I Chuck in the
Speaker (01:01:26):
road and I'm like, you know what?
One life to live.
Yes.
So the
Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
vibe for the week and why not?
I love that.
It's
Speaker (01:01:33):
freedom.
Yes.
It's joy.
It's dancing.
It's
Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
soka music.
Soka.
It is kind, you know, it's nottaking yourself too seriously.
It's like, yes.
That's it.
I love that.
Thank you so much.
That's such a great vibe to endup on because I, I'm gonna put
some Soca songs in, um, thedescription box.
Please check them out.
'cause Soca does give you thatfreedom feeling.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Just hold up your head and Yes.
(01:01:58):
Dance with the sun.
Yeah.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
Of course.
Thank you and tell.
This is amazing.
And thank you so much forwatching this episode of how Do
You Divine Bravery.
Welcome back to how do You Divine?
Where we explore how one wordhas transitioned over the course
of our life.
We are experiences and ourdefinitions.
And today we explore the wordbravery with Chantel George, the
founder, and CEO of Sisters inSales.
Sisters in Sales is a globalforce redefining sales
(00:21):
leadership for women of color.
Established in 2018, we'vecultivated a thriving community
of exceeding 12,000 powerhousesales leaders across diverse
industries.
Our members consistently shatterrevenue goals, dominating the
sales landscape, and empoweredby supportive network, skilled
(00:42):
sharpened resources andexclusive events, partnerships
that expand across multipleregions.
We'd like to welcome ChantelGeorge to the podcast.
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
This is so awesome.
I feel like when I first metyou, I was just blown away.
Not only by you, you have likesuch.
(01:02):
An infectious energy.
Oh, thank you.
But the community that you'vecultivated, I keep saying, where
have you been all my life.
Thank you.
Speaker (01:10):
And you're amazing too, and I'm so appreciative to be
here.
Thank
Speaker 2 (01:13):
you so much.
Yes.
So I, we are gonna explorebravery today, right?
So I wanted to ask you how, tellme the road towards bravery for
you.
Tell me the early days wherelittle Chantel was like, this is
a brave moment.
Speaker (01:27):
Yeah.
Okay.
Good question.
So I've had a lot of ideas as achild, like very silly ideas,
very serious ideas, likeeverywhere in between.
Um, and my dad was like mybiggest champion for my
entrepreneurial spirit and mygrowth and my experimentation.
And he had worked for the cityfor 25 years as a building
(01:48):
instructor, uh, buildinginspector and retired by the
time I was born.
So I was a late baby.
Nice.
Yes.
It came with some
Speaker 2 (01:56):
challenges.
Speaker (01:57):
Listen, there's
Speaker 2 (01:58):
challenges on both sides.
That
Speaker (01:59):
is, there is.
But my dad had remarried late inlife again.
And his wife, my mom wanted achild.
And so my dad is um, 60 I thinkalready by that time.
And so he's starting over nowwith me.
Aww.
And so he, the apple of his eye,he has so much wisdom to pass on
(02:21):
to me.
And basically he was moving intoentrepreneurship at the same
time that he was being my dad.
And so I watched him take all ofhis lessons from being a
building inspector and turn itinto starting his own real
estate enterprise.
And so when I would come to himwith ideas, he would just say,
just jump in, just do it.
(02:42):
Just,'cause he was, you know,when you talk to other
entrepreneurs, that's the energythey give you.
It's like, let's just do it.
Yeah.
We gotta try.
Right.
They're go deep.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They're very like passionateabout just getting started to
imagine.
I'm like 5, 6, 9, 10.
And that's his answer foreverything.
Oh my God.
Because he's already such's ablessing though.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah.
While I'm like, whoa.
But that's such a blessing whereI think other parents, that's
what I'm saying, it's a blessingon both sides.
'cause I think other parents,they're more like, all right
babe, calm down.
Yeah.
Go to school, right.
And relax.
Speaker (03:14):
No, not when you're like the kid of a much older dad
who has gone out on his own.
And you know, I'm doing salescalls with him and I'm his first
secretary.
Nice.
Yeah.
So I watched the beginningjourney of an entrepreneur by
watching how he moved and how heoperated and how he was not
(03:35):
afraid to take risk.
So I think that it's embedded inme.
To take calculated risk and butthey're both gone now.
So my dad and my mom passed awayover the years.
That's okay.
Um, and I still have that spiritin me.
So we have this one body, youknow, we're only here for a
(03:55):
short period of time, good, bad,or otherwise we might as well
try to actualize our dreams.
And so that's how it allstarted.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
That is so nice and it's so beautiful that at such a
young age you were empowered tobe a be not only an
entrepreneur, but be a leader.
Like, could you imagine himbeing like, yeah, that's my
daughter.
She's a secretary.
She's, she's helping me close.
Big, realistic.
It's crazy.
I know, but it also normalizedit.
Yeah.
Right.
Where I think from, like for me,that's later in life where it's
(04:24):
you're the one and only out heretrying to be an entrepreneur
girl, go, go to work.
Yeah.
You know?
And where it's the opposite.
That's so good.
That essentially he helped embedand bravery in you.
Speaker (04:36):
Yeah.
And I think that maybe this is agood thing for your audience to
think about because I, I knowthat some people are afraid for
entrepreneurship because theyhave a family and because they
have a lot of risingresponsibilities.
But that is the benefit of, ofbuilding out loud in front of
your family.
Yes.
They get to see you do thingsthat inspire them to do those
(04:57):
things.
And even though they're bothlong gone, I do believe that
they're seeing what I've done.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yes.
I a hundred percent.
Yeah.
They're like, look at my babyshine.
Yeah.
You said, when I tell you thattouched me so deeply,'cause
that's why I, for a long time,the podcast exists since 2020,
but it was like, I don't wannasay my hidden secret, but it was
like compartmentalized, right?
I'm like, it's over here, right?
While I do corporate member overthere.
And I realized that my daughterswere seeing me compartmentalize
(05:26):
in a way that didn't allow me toshow up as my full self right
now, since I've ripped thebandaid off, I wanna say for the
last two years, they're soengulfed by it.
They're like, mom, how do you dothis?
And what do, why would you dothis?
And it's just like, if it make,it gives me a different energy
and purpose.
oh wait.
They're watching.
Yeah.
Everything I'm doing.
(05:47):
Yeah.
And they're seeing that, oh, inorder to, maintain a nine to
five and build your business.
Yeah.
We have long days, we have 18hour days, and then I wake up
and I do it again, that's sogreat that from an early age it
became a normal thing to you.
You know what I mean?
So how did you navigate thatfeeling of not independence, but
(06:07):
I can be a powerhouse on my ownwhile working in corporate
spaces?
So tell us about your journey,right?
You went to school, you enteredcorporate America.
Speaker (06:17):
Um, I always had a little bit of an untraditional
journey.
So, um, first and foremost Iwent to boarding school and that
gave me a lot of independence.
Yes.
And it changed the way I thoughtabout ownership of my own life.
Because when you're 14, you liveaway from your parents.
(06:37):
Like, you're not the, you know,corporate America is not your
family.
Right.
Um, and I started to feeldistance between the
institutions that I was a partof and my individuality.
These institutions are not myfamily.
So you're 14 and you're livingin a dorm and you have all this
(07:00):
authority around you.
Usually 14 year olds are aroundtheir parents and their parents
give them rules on because oftheir own good.
Yeah.
But the, there was now this wallbetween myself and, the people
that were caring for me inthese, in this boarding school
where I started to understandtransactions.
(07:21):
'cause it's, it's not familialand it's not, um, I won't say
it's not warm, but it's familialis the only word that I can
think of at this time.
So, for example, if I need to.
Spend my day in a way that helpsme achieve my goals.
I don't have to argue with youabout it.
You're getting paid to careafter me.
I just tell you what I'm goingto do.
(07:42):
I do those things and I'm backat the deadline.
Right?
So I have so much ownership overmy life and my time when I would
come home from boarding schooland I would have the same idea.
It wouldn't work that way.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
No, no, no.
You know, and I like you have a
Speaker (07:55):
Caribbean parent.
Exactly.
And like, there's thisnegotiation.
Don't past, please.
There's this back and forth.
Yes, there's this.
Well, you'd have to wash yourdishes first.
There's this Well, where, whoyou gonna be with?
Where's you gonna do what yougonna wear?
You know?
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Yes.
Speaker (08:09):
And so I had been oscillating back and forth
between those worlds at a youngage, you know, knowing how to
deal with people that are notyour family, but have authority
over you and how to deal withpeople that are your family and
have authority over you and havecare for you.
Um, and a lot of people enterthe workplace thinking that work
is your family, because that'stheir first time engaging with
(08:29):
authority in that intimate way.
And I had already had that fromboarding school.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Interesting.
So,
Speaker (08:35):
um, I knew that these people weren't, like, they're,
you know, again, being paid tomanage me.
Yeah.
So I didn't have the sameemotional ties to management,
um, as some other people didwhen they were entering those
spaces for the first time.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Interesting.
Speaker (08:52):
Um, and so, yeah, so I did boarding school.
I, I got a job in tech working,um, at, at Yelp in its early
days.
Um, actually somewhere aroundhere where we're shooting, it
was one of its first offices onin Union Square.
Yeah.
On 15th Street, actually.
And I was one of the only blackpeople there in the sales class.
And, um, I, I gamified it.
(09:14):
I was like, okay, these whiteboys are gonna do 90 calls.
I'm gonna do 120 calls.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yes.
You
Speaker (09:19):
know, and I just, like I said, like I went into it with
a mindset of their, you know, Iam separate from this engine.
I'm not emotionally necessarilyconnected in the way that some
other people are, and I'm ableto get the work done.
And so I think I've always hadthat battery in my back when it
came to that.
And then I also, I was able topush back at the institution
without bringing a lot of that,um, emotion, em, emotional
(09:43):
headiness people, you know, whenyou have your first job, I don't
know if you, you know, rememberyour first job and how
psychological and how heavy thatjob is, or remember your first,
if you've ever been fired or hadtough conversation.
I feel like you're disappointinga parent.
Yes.
You know, it's so heavy.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
That is so interesting that you share that
experience.
Because I entered the corporateworld with a similar, but not
for that reason.
Like, so I lived on my own veryearly, since I was 17 years old.
So I've always had to learn howto manage my life.
Like I signed myself up forcollege.
I did all the things by myself.
So when I entered the corporateworld, I didn't even enter it as
(10:23):
family.
I entered it as.
I am providing you a service.
Yeah.
You are cutting me a check.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
And because I like people, I very early on
disconnected people from theirroles.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
when it was time for business, Iwas like, no, no, no, that's
not, no, thank you.
That's not how this works.
And I've seen that especiallynow in technology and I think
post covid days where people, Idon't know if enmeshed is the
(10:49):
right word, but they start tothink that work and personal are
one.
And there's no, I call itemotional cap.
'cause that's the only way forme to articulate it properly.
I'm like, there has to be anemotional cap when it comes to
your professional career becauseyou don't own this company.
Right.
You don't own this company andyou're here to provide a
(11:11):
service.
So it's so interesting hearingfrom you that you kind of came
into that because of yourbackground.
So you were like.
I manage my day.
I am giving you my day.
This is how I'm gonna gamify mygame.
Yeah.
It's so, yeah.
Speaker (11:26):
Interesting.
And so because of that, I didn'tfeel bad building, you know,
building initiatives that, thatwere purposeful to me.
Um, because I've given you whatyou required and whatever I'm
doing out of that time is mytime.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yes.
And you don't own my Yes.
You don't own my life.
Yes.
You don't own my, yeah.
But it's so, but you get sucked
Speaker (11:48):
into it.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Yes.
You can get,
Speaker (11:49):
yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
And it's also, I feel like it's this bad reward
system.
It's like the, you, they call itlike the golden handcuffs in a
way.
Yeah, of course.
Yep.
Give me your entire soul.
Yeah, yeah.
And we'll go, oh, we love you somuch.
Here's a few dollars, here's,yeah.
But then that's it still, itstill doesn't make it yours.
Speaker (12:06):
Well, especially in tech, because that was my whole
life, uh, my work experience.
Yeah.
And so, um, even though at thetime the company was still, um,
growing, it still had, uh,elements that kept you in the
office.
It had the beer and the keg, ithad the pool table.
It had, you know, um, the snacksand, you know, eat enough of
(12:28):
those snacks.
And it could be dinner, youknow, you could end up hanging
out till eight or nine o'clock.
You know, a lot of those thingsjust would just happen naturally
because of the different perksand the elements of the office
life.
Um, and so you just end upgiving more and more and more of
your time unintentionally.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
What do you think about that culture?
Because it always rubbed me thewrong way.
It really did.
Like when I was in tech, when Iwas in fashion, that culture
always rubbed me the wrong way.
That.
We are expected to be there.
I, let's say nine o'clock, butI'm a morning person, so it's 8
45 to be ready for the 9:00 AMmeeting.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Yeah.
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
But then there's this snacks, games, culture, and then
you blink and it's like eight,nine o'clock, and people are
talking about what we're goingto do for dinner.
And I'm just like, and I'm, Iremember vividly multiple
different places where I'm theonly one checking for it at four
40.
Yeah.
I'm the one, like, the time willgo off and I'm wrapping it up
(13:25):
because I'm going home to mykids.
Yeah.
I have a family, I have rightthings to do and homework to
check.
Yeah.
But it, it was like you leavingalready?
Yeah.
It's five o'clock.
Yes.
It's time to go.
It's time to leave.
But what do you think about thatculture?
Speaker (13:40):
Do
Speaker 2 (13:40):
you
Speaker (13:40):
feel
Speaker 2 (13:40):
like it's
Speaker (13:40):
part of.
I mean, I can answer that in twopo.
Two, two ways.
As a CEO, your job is tomaximize profits and people, you
know, the longer they do workfor you, the more profit they
can bring drive for you.
So there is a reason thatcultures are designed that way.
It's to maximize the amount ofrevenue you can bring to that.
(14:01):
Do I agree with it?
No, but it exists because itworks,
Speaker 2 (14:05):
but it doesn't always work.
'cause I would be theresometimes and then you have the
time y'all hanging out, youreally, it's only like four
hours of real work.
It's that
Speaker (14:12):
emotional tie though that they have.
Oh yeah, you're right.
Royal and the retention.
Yes, you're right.
That part about it is true andit's expensive to hire people.
So I'd rather get you to be verylike obsessed with this company.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah.
Speaker (14:28):
Where even in your downtime you're thinking about
it.
I used to have dreams aboutdeals.
You know what I mean?
Oh my gosh.
I used to have dreams aboutDocuSign.
So it just gets in, it justtakes more and more and more of
your capacity.
Um, so I was able to build sisbecause I had some of those
natural boundaries in my head.
(14:49):
Um, and I was able to take timeaway and work on it, um, at
night, on the weekends, youknow, sometimes during the days
Speaker 2 (15:00):
not
Speaker (15:01):
gonna
Speaker 2 (15:01):
talk about that.
Exactly.
But, but yes, but also how, butwhen did you always start sis,
right?
Which is Sisters and sales.
Did you always start sis outloud?
I don't know if that's at theright term.
Right, because like for me, I'mlike, I built the podcast
silently in a corner.
But, but did you build sis outloud?
Not out loud in the sense like,you were like, Hey, people I
(15:23):
work with, I am building sismore like.
You built it and you were like,whoever came across it, came
across it.
Speaker (15:31):
No, the first, um, no, the, the former.
I was like, I'm gonna buildthis.
Um, well, it started with twothings started at the same time.
So first I started interviewingdifferent sales professionals
and getting their stories andwriting blogs, putting it on, on
a website.
So that was pretty cool.
I was very fascinated withpeople and how they got from
here to there.
(15:51):
Yeah.
Very interesting.
That's why I built thissoftware.
Same.
I love it.
I got to that point because Iwas tired of cold calling and
feeling like I didn't know wherethis job was taking me and
looking around and seeing thatpeople were making career
shifts.
You know, this guy, I'm coldcalling next to setting
appointments, closing andpitching.
Next thing I know he's like,director of sales at this
(16:12):
startup.
And I'm like, this guy.
You know what I mean?
Like, Bailey closing two deals.
You know what?
Oh my gosh.
So that's why I was like, allright, when I say that too much
going around.
Something isn't, and I can't behere for four years.
Yeah.
And not have the tea.
Yeah.
So that's why like, so that wasreally like part of my
(16:34):
exploratory, um, this, so yeah,I had to be open and bold about
it.
'cause I'm, I'm writing aboutpeople's stories, so you, but
the other way that I created theevents side of the business was
having a dinner where I invited10 sales professionals to
dinner.
And I also had to be pretty loudabout it because I needed people
to like latch onto the idea andbe interested in the brands.
(16:56):
Um, and I learned, you know, uh,I served predominantly black
women.
Um, while I think a lot aboutour professionalism, we like to
go to nice things.
You know, there's a statementthat I read recently.
You're starting a company thatmeans you're starting a brand.
Yeah.
I never really saw myself as abrand, but, um, I needed to
(17:20):
think like that because myconsumers.
Need to feel connected to myidea.
Not just because it's practical.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Yeah.
But
Speaker (17:29):
because it brings them a certain emotional reaction.
And so like to do that, thatmeant I had to create a fancy
dinner experience that peoplewould like because it's not just
enough to say, I'm giving youthis professional development.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Yeah.
Speaker (17:44):
They needed to feel like they were invited to this
luxurious moment.
And I realize these things haveto always go hand in hand, even
though like sometimes I thinkit's frivolous, I'm like, do I
really have to do you got to.
Yeah.
That's just human nature.
I can't change how peoplerespond to brand.
So the first private dinner wasa private chef.
I had pink, black, whitetablecloths, I had flowers, I
(18:07):
had candles.
And the private chef is goingaround and catering to all these
women and they don't have tolift a finger.
Love it.
And they're getting red wine andwhite wine and all these things.
I love that.
And I'm like, you know, mostpeople's kickoffs, I think are a
little bit more subtle.
Yeah.
But not how, not how we do
Speaker 2 (18:25):
it over here.
Say, okay, how you
Speaker (18:27):
doing here?
And I just know my audience.
And like, I also had an, um, a,I also had an a seed I wanted to
plant in their head, which isthat you're valuable.
Yeah.
And you are important.
And I know that's what I was
Speaker 2 (18:41):
thinking when you said that.
Yes.
Speaker (18:42):
And when this dinner is over and you're gonna go back to
your white space and you'regonna go back to having a fight.
You know, for quota or having tofight your, your colleagues, I
want you to remember that Ithought about you, you know, the
night before.
So it it was twofold.
Yeah.
But, um, but yeah, I neverreally, I, I couldn't build
small because I knew ouraudience.
(19:03):
Yeah.
They need to know that they're apart of something that's serious
and that's beautiful andbeautiful
Speaker 2 (19:09):
because yeah, when I attend event, I was, that's what
took me first.
I was like, this is sobeautiful.
It was just like, but that's so,like, you're so right as you're
saying that.
I'm like, but it's true because,you know, what does I think does
stay with people?
It's, I'm one of people whoattended year events and I was
like, oh my God, I love this.
Where it's been, it, it's justthat sense of enough.
You are enough.
(19:29):
You are seen here because likeyou said, in these buildings and
these spaces and these corporatespaces, it's like you could be
valued as a contributor or as aleader, but there is something
different about thebeautification of being
together.
Yeah.
That.
Solidify something more.
Yeah.
Like, you know what I mean?
It, I don't, I don't know whatit is.
You can't tangibly put yourfinger on it, but it, it does
(19:51):
make, even like you said, theinternal bureaucracy of it all
and just trying to get to quotaand make these things not as
impactful.
This
Speaker (19:59):
is is also very masculine.
Yeah.
And so it's like you don'treally get enough femininity in
business and, um, becausethere's so much in, especially
in New York, there's just somuch backstabbing and there's so
much just aggression and there'sso much, you just have to be on
edge a lot of the time.
(20:20):
And so like, I just didn't wantthat anymore.
It's like a relief of, you know,even you, when you came on, um,
our, uh, platform yesterday andyou talked and you were able to
talk about your sales strategy.
In a very sister like way
Speaker 2 (20:35):
like
Speaker 3 (20:36):
that.
So Wonderful.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
And say, and you know what's interesting?
I, I get that a lot even fromthe people I work with.
'cause I, I learned very earlyin my career that I'm not going
to adapt to these environments.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like, you know how people arelike, I am just, I'm a
camouflage.
Yeah.
When I was in college, I wasprobably like 18 hard times.
(21:01):
Baroque like, and it, I was justhaving a bad week.
I remember had no clothes andI'll never forget it because my
boyfriend at the time now, myhusband said.
Why don't you just buy fiveshirts from like Footlocker?
Remember when Foot Footlocker orfive different colored T-shirts
for like$20 or something likethat?
It was crazy.
(21:21):
But he was just like, you don'thave those clothes.
Just buy those and wear those toschool.
You'll be fine.
Like, and that was his way oftrying to cheer me up because I
was just like, need to feel andlike myself in the midst of all
of this adversity.
And I remember I bought like my,so I went to Long Island
University.
I bought like the sweats for theschool, so I would just wear the
(21:42):
sweats and one day I was justhaving a bad day and I like put
the hoodie on and I hatehoodies.
Fun fact, like that's not myvibe.
I put the hoodie on and I wentto class.
My psychology teacher wasprobably like two months into
school.
I went to the back of the classand I just was doing my thing.
And as he, he's like, sunga, Ineed to see you real sharp.
And everyone was like, Ooh.
And I was just like, this mandon't even know me like that to
(22:04):
me, calling my name like that.
So then I was like, yes,professor, how can, what
happened?
And the way he classed me,Shannon, he was like, this,
this, that you're doing, I don'tknow what's going on with you,
but this will never work foryou.
You're meant to stand out.
So when you do things like this,it makes you stand out more.
So whatever's going on with you,figure it out.
(22:25):
But don't come back to my classlike this.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
The way I feel like he, yeah, I, I remember leaving
the school in tears, going tothe train station, like, this
man don't even know me.
Yeah.
But he, yeah, he saw somethingin you, but he saw, he was like,
this trying to hide makes youstand out more.
He was like, if you didn'tnotice throughout the whole
(22:50):
class, everyone just kept goinglike this.
Because this is what you are,you come to class, you're
engaged, you do stop this.
And in that moment, somethingabout that season in my life
taught me that I stand out.
Girl.
Girl, you stand out like you do.
And it's a beautiful thing.
I, but you know, when you'rejust going through stuff, you
(23:11):
just wanna be there, but justnot be there.
You just wanna get through itand be whole.
I'm all about being like wholeand well Sure.
And that season of my lifetaught me like there's no hiding
in life.
Just be who you are.
So when I got to corporateAmerica, and like you said was
like the one, sometimes the onlywoman, the only black woman at
(23:35):
many companies, like the entirecompany.
I was just this is who I ambecause I just, there was no
running from it.
And I also don't want, it's notmy responsibility to make anyone
else comfortable.
So it was very much standing inSonika.
So I
Speaker (23:54):
remember when I interviewed for a sales manager
role, my first interview, and Iwalked in the room, um, and
there were like three peoplebehind the table prepared to
interview me.
Um, I was a rep.
I had done some work on the sideto prepare.
I knew that they were gonna goover my numbers and they were
gonna go over my like,managerial perspective and maybe
(24:18):
some role playing and someexercising.
I walked in and I felt like, andI don't know if you remember
feeling this or if you've everfelt this way, because we're so
far away from those early daysin our career, but I just, I put
on like a persona, like I.
(24:41):
I totally get what you need.
I just like opened the doorlike, hello?
Like, I just like Chantel.
Why don't we all have the sameexperiences?
It's so, it was so weird and Iwas like, and so obviously I
didn't get it, but you know whatI mean?
But I did it again when I wasmyself.
But to your point, one of thethings that I learned about
(25:03):
business that I learned fromthat very strange interview is
that people trust, people theylike, feel an authentic
connection with.
But if you put a mask or likethis character in between here,
then there's something in themthat feels uncomfortable.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
Yes.
Speaker (25:20):
That makes them not wanna do business with you or do
anything with you.
And so in my mind, I didn't havea lot of black women, women in
general sales, sales managers tolook up to.
So I was impersonating a whiteman walking in the door and it
was not me.
And, and it's actually not.
Like, and they watched me as arep, so clearly they're like,
(25:41):
like, who did she just become?
She became somebody new.
So I think that, um, you know,to your point about like
standing out and like the waythat you're able to relate to
your clients and to your companyand why they love you, why they
all con continue to, you know,love you and wherever you go
you'll have these reactions.
It's because you're yourself andit's easier to trust someone if
(26:02):
you can understand them.
Yeah.
You know, it doesn't mean thatyou're always gonna win
business, but it just means thatyou don't get that icky feeling
when you talk to someone.
And like, I was giving that offbecause I wanted to be manager.
Yes.
Like, I don't, well, you know,
Speaker 2 (26:15):
but it's, but it's fair though.
Yeah.
Because I, I remember the samewhere it was like fill in the
gaps for them.
Like, what are you, yeah.
Like, I'm like, I'm black, butyou're mixed with some, like,
you know what I mean?
It's, yeah.
I remember those early days andI just, I just didn't like it.
I always felt like.
That's why I'm so strong in myfaith.
God gives me this compass ofthings that just don't feel good
(26:36):
to me.
Yeah.
And it's hard it, when I tellyou it's hard sometimes it's
like heavy lifting.
To even be in spaces and havecertain conversations.
And as I got older I started totrust it more where if it don't
feel good, just just back up.
If you have to say too much, ifthere's too much like winning
and you know.
Yeah.
I don't, I always feel like Inever want no one to feel I need
(26:58):
to drag you in.
Yeah.
Or like hard sell you anything.
Yeah.
Because it's just is thishonoring to the person.
This is business.
And funny enough on in ourcompany, I'm one of the people
that's always like, all right,now that we're done with the
emotions, where are we withforecast?
Where are we with what'shappening?
Because I understand theemotions of it all, but business
is business and I can.
(27:19):
See a person and talk to themabout, listen, this is ideally
what the numbers we want you tobe.
This is where we are now.
Tell me how we bridge the gap.
But I'm not going to manipulateyou and tell you this is
happening and this is not gonnahappen.
Because one, I don't wanna bepart of all that.
Like if I'm, if I'm true, if I'mhonest, I'm such a strong
believer in karma.
(27:39):
I'm just like, I don't want noneof this to come back on my kids
just because we trying to makequota.
Like I really don't like, Idon't, it's true.
I know I don't, and I don't wantit.
And it doesn't feel good.
And I feel like, just going backto our experience in corporate
America, I feel like a lot ofpeople don't realize that in
order to be successful, there'sa lot of not feeling good
(28:00):
moments that happen.
That it's you're in a meetingand they're talking about it and
it's yeah, we wanna get there.
But it's just not, it's not howI wanna get there.
You know?
Like I've, I remember leaving acompany saying this is not who I
am.
There was a dispute with aclient and my mentor once said
to me, if it's right for theclient and it's good for the
(28:20):
company, it's the right thing todo.
And I always like how simple sheput that.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
And there was just this abuse dispute, but what was
right for the client and it wasgood for the company and the
person that was supposed tochampion, it just didn't feel
like it was a priority.
And I just, again, justseparating that like church from
state, the person from the job,I was like, it doesn't matter.
Like this is how I feel I could,like, I could like or dislike
something as sonika.
(28:47):
But if it's good for thecustomer and it's good for the
company, it's the right thing todo.
Well,
Speaker (28:53):
I think that we don't always know if something is good
for the customer because we arenot talking to them and asking
enough questions to be confidentin that.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Yeah.
Speaker (29:03):
Um, because we're so focused on showing up a
particular way, we're so focusedon our character.
Yeah.
Like showing up as if we're on astage versus spending time to
ask a ton of questions so thatyou can be confident.
Like the more questions I askand the more I can define the
problem, the more confident Ibecome.
Yeah.
Same.
And like my confidence.
(29:25):
And then that's why it was sofunny, Joaquin doing that
interview because I was likeputting on this air instead of
just like, instead of just likemaybe asking like, why are you
interested in me for management?
Like, what about me?
And then I would've learned thatthey liked me the way I was.
Yeah.
And that there was somethingabout me that they were
gravitating towards.
But instead I.
(29:45):
Didn't allow that flow of energyto go to and fro.
And so I think that, um, youknow, one of the, you know,
active listening is important,obviously.
so my non-traditional pathincluded going to acting school
and was conservatory
Speaker 2 (30:01):
not That's so interesting.
At school, yes, I did.
Speaker (30:04):
I I thought that I wanted to be an actor or
director, but really more so anactor.
Um, and so I went toconservatory for three years
before going to Pace and thenbefore going into the workforce.
And some of the things that Ilearned about acting, um, have a
lot to do with that fightbetween your consciousness of
(30:26):
the things that you're doing andyou know, the way that you
behave in the world versus whatyou think that the character
that you're playing is doing inthe way that that character is
behaving in the world.
So, for example, when you're onstage, you're really not
supposed to play a character.
You're supposed to be yourselfin the character scenario.
(30:48):
So you're actually supposed tobe closer to your individuality
than becoming a someone else,because you can't be, there's no
such thing as being like wordson a page.
It could only be how you wouldactually feel if these things
happen to you.
So when directors come to you inbetween takes and help you stay
(31:09):
in the particular mindset,they're not saying, what do you
think you know, Susan would doin this moment?
It's like, how do you feel aboutthe fact that, you know, God
forbid your grandma just died.
Mm-hmm.
And you're supposed to thinkabout what that means to you and
Speaker 2 (31:23):
how that would make you feel and how you'd respond.
Yeah.
That is so, that's a good way tothink about it.
Yeah.
Because I think, especially whenwe're in these spaces, when
we're like the only, and we feelinferior and things like that.
I do see that character, the,the safety in putting up this
(31:43):
character.
But like you said, it to me,that was very early on and after
realizing that I couldn't hide,like I, it's also exhausting.
Can't do that for years,decades.
And to me, I just can't do that.
I, I, I feel like it helped melearn like my strengths and my
weaknesses.
It's not something I can do.
I always say like, what, earlieron when my kids were younger,
I'd be like, listen, I don'teven have the patience to
(32:05):
pretend.
Right.
Like, I have to harness themlike rice, greens, and triplets
for my children when I go home.
Like, I don't, yes.
I don't have it to give.
Right.
So that's why I'm always like, Ican, nothing I can do about it,
there's, there's nothing I cando about it.
Yeah.
So I never thought about it as acharacter.
What I used to think of beforewas your perception of who I am.
(32:28):
And then I quickly was like,there's nothing I can do about
that either.
Nothing I
Speaker (32:31):
can do about that
Speaker 2 (32:31):
either.
There's
Speaker (32:32):
nothing I can do about that either.
So you might as well not exhibitany energy trying to change
this.
Yeah.
Change that.
Put on this character.
Correct.
This perception just, it's somuch easier and so much less
work to just be who you are.
Like I had a board meetingyesterday and I've been in many
board meetings as an attend,like as a, as a member of the
(32:55):
board.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Yeah.
Speaker (32:56):
And I've seen how people conduct the meetings and
how serious it is and Very, andthat's not how my board meetings
go.
Yeah.
They're just full of enthusiasm.
'cause I'm so excited.
I'm like, Hey guys, I have thisidea.
What do you think?
You know, let's brainstorm aboutit.
And I think that they like it.
I hope they like it.
Yeah.
You know, the way that we'redoing it because they feel very
(33:17):
interested and they're feedingoff of my enthusiasm.
Yeah.
But if I had like put on thisCEO very serious, like.
Had, and like everything has tobe this way.
I amm hand away all the minutes.
You know what I mean?
Like I just think that nobody isinterested.
Well, it doesn't feel real.
Yeah.
It's different that that is mypersonality than Sure.
But it's not.
(33:38):
So, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
But I also think you speak to something that I think
people are experiencing intraditional corporate as well as
being an entrepreneur.
Like what does, what feels real?
You know what I mean?
Because I think a lot of peoplesay like, I hate my nine to
five, because they feel like Ihate the environment.
I hate who I have to be here.
Yeah.
And it's like, what part?
To me, what parts of this isreal for you?
(33:59):
Because to me it's all aboutlike learning and growing.
If I'm not learning and growing,I'm dying.
Like I'm a plan that way.
It is just like, what am I doinghere as an entrepreneur?
The same.
I'm like, I don't like to justdo stuff to be doing stuff.
Like I, I wasn't even, I, I'venever been a partier, I've never
been like, uh, if it's not notyour birthday, please don't ask
me.
I like, I, I got things to do,laundry and all like, I like,
(34:20):
I'm just like, please don't.
But like, I don't wanna just dostuff to be doing stuff.
And I think sometimes because ofsocial media as an entrepreneur,
you feel like you've gotta beout here.
You have to be doing stuff.
And I talk to otherentrepreneurs, I'm well, what's
the tangible outcome for thatthough?
And that's why I love, mycompass is time management with
like micro professional, myprofessional career, my family.
(34:41):
I'm just like, if I'm gonna giveX I'm gonna need y.
Yeah.
I'm gonna need a Y because wejust can't be out here.
Willy Walling all over theplace.
So talk to me about like howyou, because I feel like you,
you were.
Nurtured with this sense ofbravery around you, how did you
help cultivate others towardsthat bravery to build such an
(35:03):
amazing community?
Speaker (35:05):
Hmm.
Well, um, you know, I alwaysused to say to my team that, and
I, so I answer that questionusing the team first and then
the community.
'cause I am very intimate,obviously the team, we talk
every day, all the time, all ofall of'em.
Somebody from the team, Erica,is actually coming right now to
my house.
She'll be there that tonight.
(35:26):
Um, as we prepare for aspiringsellers.
Yes.
Um, so when I'm selling CIS asan idea, a concept, I know that
I'm talking about my personalstory and you cannot invalidate
my story.
This happened to me as a youngsalesperson.
(35:47):
This was the outcome of thecorporate structure.
This is why it attacked myperformance because the more
alone and isolated I felt, theless I was able to produce.
Because you need confidence andgood energy to be good at the
job.
You know, any little thingunfortunately that you feel on
(36:10):
the sales floor could impact howyou pitch externally.
So you can't, like, as I'mtalking to companies and brands
about why they should sponsor orwhy they should pay attention
to, you know, this organizationI'm speaking, I'm, I'm not like
speaking from a script.
I'm not speaking on behalf ofsomeone that created something
(36:30):
else.
You know, I'm not thesalesperson of cis.
I am cis telling you this is areal problem.
Yeah, I know this is a problem'cause I'm intimately dealing
with said problems.
So bringing it back to the teamso they see me pitch with
enthusiasm and bravery.
I am not coming up with randomantidotes.
(36:50):
This is a real issue that I'vebeen through, and it en
encourages them to tell theirstory when they pitch because
they are a user of the brand andthey are also the consumer in a
way that I am impacting.
And so I think that, um, youknow, when you are building a
team, you want to find peoplethat have the same, it's never
(37:15):
gonna be exactly the same, but aclose enough desire to solve the
problem that you started tosolve already, a close enough
desire so that they are bravealmost by default, because now
you said to them, that problemthat you've been having, I
actually created a solution forit.
(37:36):
And you don't have to read ascript, and you don't have to
watch a thousand YouTube videosto understand it because it's
the problem that you have too.
Yeah.
You know, and so a lot of timeswe don't always have the luxury
to work at companies that aresolving something that you are
so passionate about.
(37:56):
But if you do, then it'll takeyour confidence level from zero
to a hundred.
Yeah.
It'll make you brave because youidentify with the problem that
the company is solving for.
Yeah.
So, um, so hiring is a largepart of, of how we are able to
instill bravery, like literallylooking for people or them
looking for me because they feelconnected to the, to the mission
(38:18):
of what we're doing.
Um, and then in terms of thecommunity, we're saying the
untold things.
We're saying unspoken things.
Yeah.
And that's giving them bravery.
We're just calling it out.
Like we know that there isprejudice and racism and.
Um, unjust practices happeningin corporate America,
specifically with black andbrown women, and on the sales
floor, that is no.
(38:38):
Can somebody come to my houseand beat me for saying that?
Like, you know what I'm saying?
The truth is the truth, but thetruth is the truth.
And so it's empowering, youknow, because sometimes our
community cannot say that forfear of rep being reprimanded.
Yeah.
For fear of being isolated, forfear of making, you know, Sally
and Johnny feel like, oh no.
(38:59):
Like, should we not be friendswith her anymore because she
thinks that we're all racist or
Speaker 2 (39:04):
whatever?
Yeah.
Is the thing.
And it's like you can't, but youcan't own that.
Cedreo
Speaker 4 (39:09):
I have conversations with many different
professionals from all walks oflife and the world, and I
understand that theirperspectives are different.
That's why I value the diversityin idea, the diversity in the
concept of the diversity incollaboration.
But I think part of that is alsoremoving that fear, right?
(39:33):
We all come from differentbackgrounds.
We all have differentexperiences, and.
Uh, different does not equate tobetter.
Different is just different, andespecially in the sales
community and the pursuit ofbeing a amazing sales
professional and also providinga value to your customers that's
outside of numbers is oneunderstanding.
(39:58):
People's objectives,understanding the things that
they value, not only in theirpersonal lives but in their
careers.
Everyone in a different positionin that organization has a
different objective.
They have something that theyare thriving to, so.
Always positioning myself tolisten, to learn, and then
provide value to me, I feel likehas been a successful strategy
(40:22):
in my life and in my profession,but also understanding that the
way in which we communicate toone another is important.
The way in which we listenbecause it's important to be
able to say.
Oh, I was excited and I'mpresenting this thing and I
(40:42):
thought you'd find value in it,but you didn't.
Or something I said in some orsomething that was said, was
said in an offensive way.
That's fine because we're alldifferent.
But it doesn't mean offensiveaction.
Offensive word equal.
You're a bad person.
It just means maybe you areunaware.
Maybe this is a learningopportunity.
(41:03):
Maybe there is space for theconversation.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
And I'm always reminding her that even a small
graze on a flower can take apedal.
People keep thinking that, it'sjust a mild graze.
It was just a one off comment.
But you could still take a pedaloff a rose with just a, a heavy
blow.
Yeah.
Is that fair To the rose?
(41:27):
No.
So it's just, it's, I thinksaying the uncomfortable thing
out loud brings everyone intothe conversation.
'cause I also don't want todiminish any, just like, I don't
wanna be diminished to my genderand my race.
I don't wanna diminish anyoneelse to their gender in their
race.
So I don't want them to, I don'twanna make the assumption you've
(41:47):
had this experience before andyou're aware Right.
But I also am naive to teachyou.
But if I am g graced, I'm theone to go, Hey, hey.
Excuse me.
Excuse, excuse me.
Um, that little comment, whileyou might've not meant it.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Offensively, let me tell you how it could be
offensive.
Mm-hmm.
Right then and there, and I, Ihave stopped many of
conversations and people arelike, yeah, well, like Sonika.
And I'm like, they
Speaker (42:17):
don't like conflict.
And that's the thing, you know?
Um, I'm going against the grain,so I'm inviting conflict, um,
and having to be okay with thatbecause ultimately, without cis,
without o other organizations,without someone saying that we
(42:40):
should not let this happen, itwould just happen.
Like people would just hire thesame kinds of people.
You would not get into certainorganiz, into certain companies.
You would experience a lot of,um, anti femininity, you know,
in the workplace.
Like there's, it's like a, it'slike a, a ball in motion.
(43:03):
It is.
And it's
Speaker 2 (43:04):
like, there's, but, and I also feel like why if you
are doing something, you know,we know it's for the right
reasons.
Why is that, why is thatinviting conflict?
Do you understand what I'm, Ifeel like there are so many bad
things happening in the world.
I know you guys watch the news,like there is so much craziness
happening in the news and theydon't, there is not this
(43:26):
conversation of, of course,that's gonna have repercussions.
Of course people are not gonnafeel good about that.
Of course, there'll beflashbacks, quotes, there'll be
there, there's not that muchemphasis on when the wrong
things are being done thatobviously conflict will come
their way, but when the rightthing is being done.
We subconsciously start to braceourselves for the conflict that
(43:51):
will come.
And I just, I don't know.
I've, I've just in the last fewyears have, I feel like the sun
has shifted where I'm notbracing myself in no heavy
nothing.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
Yeah.
I'm
Speaker 2 (44:01):
standing in the right, yeah.
I, I'm standing in integrity.
Yep.
So if anything that comes my waynegative or anything of, that's
all you.
That's all you.
I'm gonna stand tall in what I'msaying and my experience, but
I'm not going to, I don't know.
I feel like something aboutbracing for impact diminishes
the light.
Speaker (44:23):
Interesting.
I think that's a fascinatingtake.
I think that some of it islearned behavior, um, where they
see someone like a freedomfighter going out into the
street talking the truth.
I think people get nervous, andI don't know if it's because
they still wanna hear the truthof what that person may be
saying.
Um, or if they know that personwill be persecuted.
(44:45):
But, um, I think the brace forimpact comes from knowing that
we live in a world, specificallyin America, very capitalist
society, where it's all aboutthe bottom line.
Um, and you know, when we'retalking about diversity,
unfortunately we have to talkabout diversity being good for
the bottom line becauseemotional arguments don't seem
(45:07):
to win.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
But diversity is good for the bottom line.
Like that's, it is like, youknow, I'm a statistical nerd.
Yeah.
Like, that's where I'm justlike, I don't, that's where I'm
just like, take your emotionsand, and, and go, go away.
Go away from here.
I agree.
Speaker (45:22):
I agree.
Um, but we are surrounded by alot of individuals that are not,
also not creative thinkers.
But they're also not
Speaker 2 (45:32):
fact thinkers.
Yeah,
Speaker (45:34):
that's true too.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
And that's where I left to point out that we can
have a conversation abouteverything under the sun.
And I'm one of those people thatI'm, I'm, I'm here for it.
I wanna hear everyone'sperspective, but we still need
to know the facts or the facts.
The opinions.
Or the opinions.
The experiences are theexperiences.
You cannot manipulate factstowards your emotion.
(45:56):
Like, let's
Speaker (45:57):
be honest, it's a tricky thing.
You know, for me, I think that,um, with sis, we are not looking
to decondition or recondition,um, the minds of racists.
They made it their goal.
I mean, we are in a time wherepeople are deciding that this,
(46:19):
no matter what happens, they'renot going to change sides.
I.
The world could literally be onfire and like, you know, and,
and this, and the stubbornnessof these people are just what it
is right now.
And there's not much else.
And I'm not gonna live my lifetrying to change people's minds.
So I just can't, I work with thepeople that are interested in
(46:42):
common sense, and I, and facts.
And facts and, um, beautifulthings are happening at their
companies and in our community.
And that's it.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
Yeah.
Speaker (46:52):
And, and it's the levity that I need to keep
moving on with my day, um, isknowing that I'm solving a
problem for all of thesedifferent groups and everything
is great
Speaker 2 (47:04):
and you are doing such a great job about with it.
Thank you.
Like, it's, you've ma you'remaking such an impact, not just
in these organizations thatpartner with sisters and sales,
but to the overall community.
I feel like it's somewhat like abat.
A bat signal.
Yes.
We are here.
Yes.
Like, come find us.
You do have partner.
Partners in arms and incommunity to help.
(47:24):
Yeah.
Not just because we look likeeach other.
Yep.
But we are smart.
We are so smart.
We are smart.
We are revenue drivers.
We are the ones bringing in thedollars and keeping the lights
Speaker (47:35):
on.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
And at the end of the day, this is business.
So that's where I, when I don'tknow why would I hear people
that's like, di i, and it's,it's funny to me, I I have no, I
have no other reaction but tolaugh because it's the saying
you cut off your nose to spiceyour face.
Your face.
That's right.
Because say what you want.
(47:55):
It's, yeah.
It's where the money
Speaker (47:57):
is.
You know, yesterday when you ledthat workshop, no one can
contest that you, um, are not anaccomplished salesperson.
You are clearly, you know, yourstuff, you know, and, and so
many people in our communityknow their stuff.
But when you see them, um, youknow, on an interview slate, you
see a black face there.
(48:18):
You assume for some reason thisadministration has warped in
people's minds that this persondoesn't know their stuff because
of their skin color.
Why?
You know, whereas they probablyknow twice as much because
they've been preparing tocompete.
Exactly.
Um, I, I did tell that once to,um, an old manager.
(48:40):
Um, I was like, I don't know ifyou know this, but you know,
we're told to work twice ashard, which means that you're
getting a better rep on yourteam.
I know.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
I don't know if you, if you wanna make goal or not.
You know what I mean?
I was like, but that's where youshould
Speaker (48:54):
know this.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
No, but that's where I'm just like, what are, what is
your objective?
Right.
And that's to me, where Iseparate church from state.
Speaker (49:02):
Yeah.
Well, hatred, the hatred is, isgonna get in the way.
That's why we can't be bothered.
There's just too much, too muchnegativity.
We just,
Speaker 2 (49:09):
it's, it's comical to me.
I really can't even take itseriously.
That's why I think it's so funnybecause it's like you would hold
on to emotion mm-hmm.
Rather than meet your goal.
Yes.
Okay.
Yeah.
That's how successful this is.
Yeah.
And then you wonder like whyyour competitors are circling
(49:29):
you.
Like it's just, it's a funnything.
It's, but I wanna talk aboutentrepreneurship.
Sure.
Right.
Because I think there are somany people that understand the
value of ENT entrepreneurship,myself included.
Right.
And the bravery required.
I feel like.
Being an entrepreneur doesn'tonly, you have to be, like you
said, a calculated risk taker,but there's something about
(49:53):
your, not the thickness of theskin, but there's something
else.
There's something else there.
I don't know.
What's the proper terminologyfor it?
Speaker (50:03):
Um, well, I mean, I think long term all the time, I
think long, medium, even shortterm, um, I know that my actions
can change the course of mybusiness, so I'm no longer
reactive.
That's a habit that, you know,you form when you are on your
own and you're self-employed.
Um, I ha in a corporate entity,partnerships are very siloed.
(50:30):
So like you can either be adirect sales or account manager,
or you could be businessdevelopment or you could be
marketing, whatever it may be.
When you're an entrepreneur, youcan, everybody, anything you,
everybody.
So, you know the gentleman whoruns this studio?
Yes.
Gabe, there is a myriad ofdifferent ways we could partner
(50:50):
together.
Yes.
I don't have to say if I'm in acorporate structure, I'd have to
say, wait a second, Susan doesthis type of sale.
Yeah.
And then Susan say, no, Iactually don't do that.
This other person does this.
And so like, there are all thesedifferent layers and, and
bureaucracy.
Yes.
Um, but when you're anentrepreneur, you can find
collaboration with anyone at anytime in any way.
(51:14):
And that is the beautiful thingabout being an entrepreneur.
It's the diversity of the waysthat you can make things happen
with other people withoutcorporate structure getting in
the way.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
I like that.
That makes me gonna ask you, howhas your bravery surprised you
since being an entrepreneur?
Okay.
A
Speaker (51:35):
couple things.
So let's start from thepractical sense.
From the practical sense,depending on the way that your
business is designed.
Your business is not you, it'sits own thing.
Um, you know, there's limitedliability for example.
So that means you can put asmuch risk in it.
You can try a lot of things.
(51:56):
If it doesn't happen, close upshop, move on.
I mean that from a verypractical and just fundamental
answer there is that that didsurprise me.
And the reason it surprised meis because even though I had my
dad, I was still in a community,um, Caribbean and a Caribbean
American community, and thebusiness owners that I did run
(52:19):
into would go down with theship.
Yes.
Not because I don't think that,you know, I don't think they
were trying to, but they committhemselves
Speaker 2 (52:29):
to an
Speaker (52:30):
idea,
Speaker 2 (52:31):
a
Speaker (52:31):
singular entity.
And I just don't think theyunderstood.
Or maybe they did.
I don't know.
Um, all the options that areavailable to you that can give
you confidence.
So, as you know, our presidenthas, I think he's has seven
bankruptcies or how, howevermany bankruptcies.
Bankruptcy, right?
(52:53):
Bankruptcy, closing up shop,starting again, pivoting are all
options for you building inAmerica.
You literally can close up yoursmall business or your large
business.
You can bring on debt or not.
Like there's so much that it'sa, it's a trajectory.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:13):
Yeah.
It's a
Speaker (53:14):
journey at any time.
And you don't have to go downwith the ship.
If it's going poorly, you cansell parts of the business, you
know, and so I think the biggestthing was separating myself, my
identity from the businessstructure.
These are all the options forme.
If it goes in this direction,these are all the options for
(53:35):
me.
If it goes in another direction
Speaker 2 (53:37):
and, and seeing them as separate from yourself is
separate is really, it doesn'tmean I
Speaker (53:41):
failed.
If I need to go in thisdirection.
That's just the nature
Speaker 2 (53:45):
of the business entity.
Yes.
And now think you know that youjust unlock something really
important for me.
'cause that also makes me thinkof the industry.
Right.
I work in these very large comp,I work for a company that's very
large partnering with companiesthat are super
Speaker (54:00):
large.
And I'm sure all of them are inlawsuits.
All of them have a lot of debt.
All of them haven't beenprofitable.
And I've seen
Speaker 2 (54:06):
some of them that are literally going down with the
industry.
Yep.
Right.
Which has nothing to do withthem.
Speaker 3 (54:13):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (54:13):
But their industry is taking certain hits because of
regulations and compliances andall of these things.
Huh.
That is, that is a great way toput that, that you could, you
don't have to go down with everyship that you build.
Speaker (54:31):
No.
Speaker 2 (54:32):
Because each ship that's so, I don't know why, but
duh.
Because each ship.
It is in a notion of its own,it's in its own industry.
Yes.
And like if that industry startsto take on heavy waves, your
ship will be impacted.
That doesn't mean you go downwith the
Speaker (54:49):
ship, you don't go down.
But that is a very unique aspectof American business.
We literally have designed somany shortcuts and loopholes for
business owners to separatethemselves to, you know, sell
assets, buy assets, all of thosethings.
So when you're startingentrepreneurship, you're gonna
feel that the business is youand you are the business.
(55:11):
But eventually, that's thesurprising part, especially when
you start dealing withprofessional services like legal
and accounting and bookkeepingand what have you.
They will be on your side toprotect you, not just
emotionally, but also throughlegalities.
To put the business here and putyou over here.
(55:32):
And so, yeah, that was one ofthe things that was really
interesting and fascinating thatI've learned.
And, and the more you understandyour protections yes.
As an individual versus abusiness and vice versa, the
more risk you can take.
Speaker 2 (55:44):
Nice.
That is so smart.
No one, this is such a greatconversation for entrepreneurs.
That is awesome.
'cause I don't think anyonethinks of that.
Right?
I think people, especiallymyself, I'm like, this is my
baby.
But again, same thing too.
You're your baby.
I'm, you're your baby.
You know, my husband is, myintellectual property is my
baby.
My husband always tells me
Speaker (56:03):
that, um, he always talks about Dr.
Dre not, you know, he has a lotof controversy.
Yes.
But he always talks about, um,when Dr.
Dre invests in an artist, heinvests in the individual, not
necessarily about the particularproduct they've created at that
time, but it's like, I want you,because I know your brain and
(56:24):
your ingenuity and yourcreativity will create a
thousand things.
And I want all the things thatyou're going to create and all
the things that you're going totouch.
And so it's like, yes, thisbusiness is your baby, but you
are the genius behind it.
And if God forbid somethinghappens with this, you're gonna
create something else.
Speaker 2 (56:42):
Yeah, very true.
And something
Speaker (56:44):
else.
And something else.
And you're always gonna bethinking and always gonna be
problem solving.
So the true, you know, way to,you know, invest is to invest in
the individual that's building,not necessarily all the time and
the thing that they've createdat that particular time.
Speaker 2 (57:02):
That is so smart.
And I love, I, I think that'ssuch a great conversation,
especially for the audience.
'cause when you think of thebravery you need to be in the
corporate space and then thebravery you need for
entrepreneurship, you actuallyrealize that not that they're
different, but they're the levellike it, it.
It fluctuates in a way.
Yeah.
Right.
Because as an entrepreneur, yes,you're brave because you're your
(57:24):
own business.
You are running the ship.
I would say building the empire.
Yeah, you are building theempire, but there is so much
more legality and, and things onyour side, on the
entrepreneurship side versuswhen you're an employee.
And I think,
Speaker 3 (57:39):
yeah, there
Speaker 2 (57:39):
is this, especially in like the Caribbean culture
and black culture you're raisedI think now the millennials know
that we, we were sold a bag ofbullshit like we, uh, where it
was like, go to school, get agood job, save all your money.
Live your life in retirement.
Yeah.
Like that was what they weretold.
So they were like, I need tosell this to my kids.
(58:00):
Save, invest.
I dunno about that.
Maybe a couple of dollars.
Yeah.
But save.
Yeah.
Go to work.
Yep.
Stay at instead.
Work, be there for a long time.
Speaker (58:11):
I am.
My family is like, oh, so areyou going to work?
I'm like, I am.
I'm, I'm an entrepreneur, thisis my work.
Welcome.
And they're like, no, but are,you know, they're so accustomed
to you doing it for someoneelse.
Like, are you going to someoneelse's office?
Yeah.
Like, no.
Yes.
But yeah, it's hard for them tothink about it that way.
But, you know, as much as thereis a lot of chaos and, and
(58:34):
instability and all kinds ofthings happening in the world,
that is one of the benefits ofdoing business in America.
Speaker 2 (58:40):
Yes.
That is, that is such a greatthing.
And I wanna, I want us leavethere because I love how you've,
you basically were nurtured withseeds of bravery all around you.
Like your garden was grown withbravery.
Yeah.
Like, you know what I mean?
And as you channel throughmultiple different seasons in
your life from being an actress,to being, being a sales leader
(59:05):
and then now a CEO of an amazingcommunity and an organization
that's impacting so manydifferent organizations.
It, I think.
It just shows you that braverydoesn't look like X.
It doesn't look like,
Speaker 3 (59:19):
yeah.
Speaker 2 (59:20):
I am being brave.
Bravery is being in thatboardroom and feeling
uncomfortable and going, goodthing.
I have that idea that I'mworking on.
Like, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
But also knowing that I'm hereto provide a service.
Yeah.
And I'm providing that serviceat the best of my ability when
I'm done providing that service.
Right.
I'm going to go build.
Yeah.
Right.
And then also for those that arejust building, and I wanna be an
(59:42):
entrepreneur, and this is whatalso not to be attached to this
idea.
Like, this is my moment, this isgonna be my thing.
Because it also stifles you in away of not believing that you
yourself.
Have enough to continue to buildand don't go down with any ship.
Yeah.
(01:00:02):
Your first ship is not your onlyship.
Right.
And I love that bravery taughtyou that you can be, you can
multiply you.
You are the entity, you are theempire.
Yes.
That's it.
You got it.
That is awesome.
This was such a greatconversation.
I love you.
Thank you for having me so much.
And before I let you go, ah, youknow, we always talk about the
(01:00:24):
vibe of the week, right?
I think music drives our life.
It just helps keep us closer tothe sun.
Okay.
So what are you vibing on thisweek, Chantel?
What you vibing on?
Um, honestly, I was listening toSoca music
Speaker (01:00:38):
on the way down here.
Jump, jump.
It's car.
It's CarVal time in theCaribbean.
Yes.
Um, I was listening to, um, theGreatest Bend over.
Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
Oh, bend over.
Bend over.
I like Marsha Long.
Between Marsha, yes.
Speaker (01:00:59):
Gb m Neutron NI was listening to just like freedom
music.
I love it.
You know, carnivals anexpression of freedom.
It is.
And of, uh, being yourself.
I have a cousin, I love her todeath.
She's a genetic scientist andshe's so we well respected in
the, in the, in the medicalworld funded by so many great,
um, benefactors.
And you know, when you see her,she's very serious.
(01:01:21):
Yes.
But she's in carnival right now.
Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
Listen, why John?
I Chuck in the
Speaker (01:01:26):
road and I'm like, you know what?
One life to live.
Yes.
So the
Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
vibe for the week and why not?
I love that.
It's
Speaker (01:01:33):
freedom.
Yes.
It's joy.
It's dancing.
It's
Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
soka music.
Soka.
It is kind, you know, it's nottaking yourself too seriously.
It's like, yes.
That's it.
I love that.
Thank you so much.
That's such a great vibe to endup on because I, I'm gonna put
some Soca songs in, um, thedescription box.
Please check them out.
'cause Soca does give you thatfreedom feeling.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Just hold up your head and Yes.
(01:01:58):
Dance with the sun.
Yeah.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
Of course.
Thank you and tell.
This is amazing.
And thank you so much forwatching this episode of how Do
You Divine Bravery.
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