FREEDOM| Money, Mindset, and the Path to Independence with Walli Miller

Episode Transcript
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Speaker (00:00):
Welcome to this episode of How Do You Divine, and today
we are here with Wally Miller toexplore the word freedom.
Hi, Wally.
How are you?
Hi Scott.
I'm doing so well.
How are you?
I'm doing good.
I'm so excited that we had theopportunity to sit down and have
this conversation, right?
We had previous conversations,but I felt like this topic was

(00:22):
so important and honestly alittle rough.
A little bit rough, right?
I'm not gonna lie, I think it,but it adds so much color to
truth in how we see freedom.
Money in our lives.
So tell us a little bit aboutwho is

Speaker 3 (00:35):
Wally.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, thank you so much forhaving me.
Um, I am excited to be here andI am a first generation college
graduate.
I'm an early retiree.
Um, so I was able to walk awayfrom my job at the age of 39.
I worked in public service, notin engineering or software, but

(00:55):
just made some really greatdecisions with money and was
able to buy my financial freedomand buy my time freedom as well.

Speaker (01:02):
Oh, I love that.
And I love that it's your la youdid that your last year before
you turned 40.
We don't hear about that storylike retiring yourself early.
Like did you eat ramen yourentire life?
How did you do that,

Speaker 3 (01:14):
especially living here in New York City?
Yeah, so I love this questionbecause I think that one of the
first misconceptions that thereare, or that there is, is that,
you know, in order to have agood life, in order to retire
early.
I'm part of this movement calledFinancial Independence, retire
Early.
So it's the fire community andit's really about a bunch of

(01:35):
people who really want to takefull control of what retirement
means, and some people actuallyremove the re So rather than
retire early, it's aboutrelaxing early or it's about
refocusing energy.
I think a lot of people, um, myage or.
Millennials in particular.
Yes.
This whole sense of wanting tosit by a beach and do nothing

(01:57):
for the rest of their lives isnot really the goal.
Yes.
The goal is really about havingmore control over your time and
making smart money moves aroundthere.
And one thing that you said is,did you eat ramen the entire
time?
Listen, I'm going to be honest,that frugal in your way to
financial independence orfinancial freedom is a way.

Speaker 4 (02:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:16):
But that definitely was not my way.
Oh

Speaker (02:19):
girl, I, that eased my heart a little bit.
Just so we clear.
'cause I hate

Speaker 3 (02:22):
ramen.
There you go.
But it is about makingintentional decisions.
I was a very impulsive shopper,a mindless spender, and I just
switched my focus from, youknow, sort of mindless spending
to more intentional shopping andintentional spending.
And that really helped me, um,set some financial goals and

(02:44):
meet them.
That

Speaker (02:45):
is interesting.
So, but when did you have thefirst thought of, I wanna be
free, and what does freedom looklike to me?
Like was that in high school?
Was that early days?
College?
When did Wally say like, I justwanna be

Speaker 3 (02:56):
free.
I wish that was the case.
I wish I had financial literacy.
I wish that someone ha would'vetaught me what it meant to be
good with money.
Yeah, because I'm gonna sort ofrewind a little bit.
Um, as I mentioned, I'm a firstgeneration college graduate.
I'm born and raised in New YorkCity, in the Bronx.
So I was raised, yes,

Speaker (03:16):
big up

Speaker 3 (03:16):
there, up, um, the boogie down, you know, um, but.
Really, um, you know, when wethink about New York City, a lot
of people think about Manhattan,but I was raised in the poorest
borough of New York City, and soeveryone was kind of in the same
socioeconomic status, whichtended to be low income.
Yeah.
And so we didn't really haveconversations around money

(03:37):
growing up, but there werethings that I observed and
absorbed.
Yeah.
Right.
So even though my parents didn'tsit down and tell me how to
balance a checkbook or whatsavings was, I did know that
sometimes the lights got caughtoff.
I knew that sometimes we were,uh, late paying rent.
Yeah.
So those were sort of theobservations that I made with
money.

(03:57):
And I knew that when money wasthere, it felt really good.
And when money wasn't there,sort of like, I don't think at
the time I would've described itas stress level.
Yeah.
'cause as kids, you don'treally, you don't realize it's
stress.
You just realize

Speaker (04:09):
that there's limitations.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
There's limitations or there's like 10, like a
tension.
Yeah.
Right.
So I knew that there were timesin our lives that that happened,
but.
Really conversations aroundmoney and healthy relationship
with money hap like healthymoney habits really didn't
develop at that time.
So fast forward when I startedmaking my own money, right?
Yay.
So I went to college and I gotmy big girl job, and I felt

(04:34):
really good because I was in aposition that I said, okay, I
know that I need to pay mybills.
That's all I need to do.
And guess what?
I was able to pay my bills.
And so that felt really nice.
What no one told me, or what Ididn't really have a full grasp
on is if you have money leftover, what do you do with that
money?

Speaker (04:53):
Spend it.
That's what you do with it.
Like, but that's what you knowwhen you come from humble
beginnings, that's all you know.
It's like, yeah.
The bills are paid check.
Right.
It's moving from survival tothriving.
Right.
I've survived all the bills arechecked, this extra, I'm going
to the mall.

Speaker 3 (05:08):
Yeah.
So that's exactly what it is.
So my definition of being goodwith money was that I paid my
bills on time and then I spentwhat was left over.
I was like, wow, this is not,

Speaker 5 (05:17):
we live in the life, Wally.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
Yes, exactly.
And that was sort of what Ithought.
I was like, oh, I'm good withmoney.
I, some of the personal financegurus talked a lot about staying
out of debt and credit cardswere bad.
Mm-hmm.
And so I said, okay, I just needto make sure that I stay out of
debt, pay my bills, and then Iget to spend the money.
And that really was my entiresort of financial knowledge and

(05:39):
my definition of being good withmoney.
In my twenties.
I was like, I'm paying my bills.
The debt that I had was studentloan debt and a car payment.
Mm-hmm.
And I was able to pay those ontime.
And so I was like, okay, all I'mgonna do is be able, you know,
I'm gonna.
Have this extra money, I'm gonnaspend it.
I can live good now.
I can live good.
And that really was sort of the,the entire length of my

(06:01):
twenties.
And I was really fortunate thatI had a career that I loved and
a job that I really enjoyed.
Of

Speaker (06:08):
course, you know, there's always those little
things.
You always have those moments,you'll always have those moments
'cause you, you are operatingunder someone else's
environment.

Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yeah.
But for the most part, like Ididn't have the Sunday Blues or
the Monday Blues as peopletalked about.
I enjoyed the people that Iworked with.
The, the work that we were doingwas incredibly fulfilling.
And so that I, I really feltblessed and I really felt lucky
to be in that situation.
Yeah.
Now fast forward.
When things changed?

(06:35):
Yes.
When the environment changed.
And what happened was that my,uh, boss, who I really loved, he
went to another position.
He went to another office, andthe entire atmosphere and the
culture of the office shiftedand changed shift.
Mm-hmm.
And so what was an ideal worksituation?
Began to become extremely toxicand heavy.

(06:57):
I know it all

Speaker (06:57):
too well.
Yeah.
I know it all too well when theculture changed and mm-hmm.
It's weird to sit in one seatthat you basket in, you are
like, oh my God, I'm thriving,I'm learning, I'm growing.
And in that exact same seat,it's just like.
This may be a waste of my time.

Speaker 3 (07:12):
Yeah.
I mean the work was stillfulfilling, but doing work that
you are passionate about underextreme circumstances really
makes you question a lot.

Speaker 4 (07:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:21):
And so that's sort of what happened and I really was
like, okay, I just need to dukethis out.
I was in public service andfederal service, so I was like,
okay, I just need to like stayuntil the pension.

Speaker 4 (07:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
And so I knew that I didn't have to work until 65,
that as soon as I hit 55 that Iwas gonna be good.
So I was like, I just have to dothis until the age of 55.
Yes.
And I was like, oh my gosh, justa long time.
That is a long time.
I'm 30, what in the world?
So I have to do this for another25 years?
And the idea that I didn't havecontrol over that really was.

(07:56):
It felt hopeless.
Right?
It felt disempowering and I waslike, I'm, I feel like I'm
missing something there.
There has to be a different way.
And so I did try to look forjobs in other places.
'cause I was like, okay, all Ineed to do is switch my
environment.
Yes.
Then you start to think like, Ihave great skills here.
I'm just gonna take these skillsand go somewhere else.
But then the sort of intent,the, the reality hit me that

(08:20):
what would happen is that Icould find a really great place
to work and no, it was out of mycontrol.
There was nothing that I coulddo if the management changed, if
culture changed, if policieschanged, if the company went
under, if still someone else'senvironment.
That's exactly right.
And so I was like, wow, likethis really feels like a lose

(08:41):
lose.
Like is this what people sort ofdo?
Right?
Yeah.
Like it's just, you just stay ata job that you hate for years
and years.
It's just feels like we're sortof set up to like fail or

Speaker (08:53):
so stifling, right?
Coming from humble beginnings,after you hit those benchmarks
of My bills are paid.
Wow.
Okay.
My car is paid.
Now what?
Right now that you've met thethreshold of survival I'm
making, my bills are paid.
Yeah.
I have some extra, I could do alittle shopping, but it's like
how much of this is enough forhow long?

Speaker 3 (09:14):
It's sort of the first level of like wanting to
feel financially safe, right?
And then you feel that financialsafety and then it's like
comfort and then it's, you know,sort of like that thriving,
right?
So you go beyond sort offinancially surviving to
actually fin financiallythriving.
And I was there, but I realizedthat I had, I was making decent

(09:36):
money and I really didn't haveanything to show for it.
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 6 (09:40):
I was like,

Speaker 3 (09:41):
okay, if I missed one paycheck, I might be okay, but
if I missed two paychecks, I'mgonna lose everything that I
worked so hard to gain.
And this was when these weresort of the seeds that began to
get planted that maybe theremight be something more.
And then very serendipitously,um, sort of a very Click Beatty
article popped up on my screenduring a very intense time at

(10:04):
work.
And it was like couple in theirthirties travels the world
retires to travel the world.
I was like, couple in theirthirties, that looks sounding a
lot like me.
I was like, what is happening?
And so I sent that article to mythen fiance, my now husband, and
I was like, check this out.
Read this article.
He was like, yeah, that's prettycool.

(10:26):
But it kind of stayed there.
Mm-hmm.
And I didn't really do anythingwith it.
And fast forward a couple monthswith the same sort of toxic work
environment, I had a reallyrough week at work.
I dug that article up, I hadsent it to my husband and um, I
went through my sent mailbox.
Yes.
And I was like, what did theydo?
Like what am I missing?

(10:46):
How do they do this in theirthirties?
Because again, I was like, I'mmaking decent money, but I feel
like I'm missing something.
And I read the article and theytalked about something called
Building Wealth.
Building Wealth.
And I was like, wealth, whatdoes that even mean?
What does that even mean?
How do you do it?
Right.
Because my definition of wealthwas like an.

(11:06):
Old man with white hair in avelvet robe, smoking cigars, or
maybe like a hip hop artist ormaybe like a basketball player.
Artist.
Yes,

Speaker (11:14):
a artist.
That's the thing about being, akid from the city, like growing
up in the city.
Mm-hmm.
You're in proximity to wealth,but you only see it in these
like fame driven ways, right?
Yeah.
In a celebrity, like you'reeither like old money, you're
either a celebrity or you're anathlete.
Like, you know, there's noactual wealth trajectory until
now when you hear people reallytalking about what is wealth and

(11:37):
what does wealth mean to you.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
Yeah.
And that really was what I sortof had to sort of like
understand and really define formyself was, okay, so they're
doing something called buildingwealth.
Like what is that?
Because they have like a pictureof them they're wearing like in
a suit and tie and like, and Iwas like.
So wealth means freedom.

(11:58):
Yeah, wealth is freedom.
How do you get it?
And that was sort of the startof like learning this whole
other side to finances that Ididn't know that went beyond
from paying your bills on time.
It went beyond just setting alittle bit of money aside for
savings.
'cause that I did do that, butfor the amount of money that I
was making and the amount ofmoney that I was spending, I was

(12:19):
definitely putting way moremoney into spending thing, you
know, spending money, um, versusputting money aside.
And also saving money is not thesame as building wealth.
And that was sort of the, thekey aspect.
Yeah.
That I was missing

Speaker (12:36):
That is so difficult, right?
To know that while I'm paying mybills, I'm spending quite a bit,
but I'm saving, kind of, youknow.
And while you're also dealingwith the emotional strain of
your corporate situation and atwork, how did you sit down and
have a honest conversation withWally and go, do you wanna be
free?
Do you want instantgratification?
Because that's what, trust me,I'm a compulsive shopper.

(12:58):
You know, AA meeting, I'm cominglike, um, I know myself, right?
You want that.
You wanna be like, Ugh, I had aweek.
I just need a shirt.
I just need a bag.
You know what I mean?
How did you sit down withyourself and go, Wally, do you
wanna be

Speaker 3 (13:11):
free?
So once I started learning aboutbuilding wealth, I like Googled
this couple that they hadmentioned, and I read, you know,
how much they were making, youknow, in the year.
And I was like, oh, they're notlike.
Making that much more money thanwas in millions of dollars.
Right.
Exactly.
They were like six figureearners.

(13:32):
But living in, um, they wereliving in Seattle, Washington,
so it was still a high cost ofliving area.
But I started to see some of thedecisions that they were making,
including they lived in a moreexpensive apartment, but that
allowed them to work close or tolive closer to work so they got
rid of their cars.
Right.
And so I saw those little stepsthat they were making.
Now, some of those things I waslike, okay, I cannot do, but

(13:55):
what can I do?
And um, I came across thisconcept of a no spend challenge.
Have you ever heard of a nospend challenge?
No.
It already makes me nervous.

Speaker (14:04):
Oh, yeah.
I told you I'm trying to bebetter.

Speaker 3 (14:06):
Okay.
So the idea of a no spendchallenge, and you can do this
for any period of time.
You can do this for 24 hours.
You can do this for seven days.
You can do this for 30 days.
And the idea is that you onlyspend money on the absolute
necessities, right.
In order to reach a goal.
So you spend money on food, youmake sure you pay your rent.
Gas is in the car, but you tryto not spend any money outside

(14:28):
of the most essential things for24 hours or for seven days.
So my idea was, okay, I wanna doa seven day no spend challenge,
and I was only gonna spend moneyon the things on this list.
And so it was like rent, dogfood, our food, you know, like,
yes, light bill, rent, you know,all these things.
So I just really wanted to focuson that.

(14:49):
And I tried to complete a sevenday no spend challenge multiple
times and continuously failed.
And it wasn't like I went threeor four days and then failed.
It was like.
Every day.
What were you buying?
Tell us.
And so where were you?
Yeah.
So sometimes it was picking upmedication at the pharmacy, and
then I was grabbing a candy bar.
Mm-hmm.
Or a book.

(15:09):
Okay.
Or a magazine I was going totarget to buy toilet paper or
paper towels, and I would leavewith candles.
Yes.
Or toss pillows.
Yes.
Right.
So every time that I went tospend money on something that I
needed, I also realized that Iwas having these sort of wallet
leaks and there weren't.
Big.
They're not

Speaker (15:28):
big leaks, but they're still leaks.
That's me and TJ Maxx,

Speaker 3 (15:31):
babe.

Speaker (15:31):
There you go.
TJ Maxx hate to see me come in.
I just, or maybe they love tosee me.
They do love to see me comelike, but I should not.
I will go in there for one thingfor my daughters come out two,
three bags later.
It's like, how

Speaker 3 (15:43):
did we end up here?
I was the same way.
I would be on my way to go putgas in the car.
And I'm like, Ross MarshallsNordstrom's rap.
Right?
And it was again, like listen tothe names of the store.
I'm not talking about Sax FifthAvenue.
Yes.
Or Bloomingdale's.
I was in my mind, I was like,oh, I know how to spend.
Well

Speaker (16:02):
girl, me too.
Because I the same thing.
I'm just like, I'm not gonna bein nobody's Bloomingdale's
spending the hundreds ofthousands dollars on no shirt.
Why would I do that?

Speaker 3 (16:10):
But, and then those 30, 40, 50,$60 purchases.
They add up.

Speaker 5 (16:15):
They add up.

Speaker 3 (16:15):
And that was sure, while you even talking to my
husband, I'm just saying, yeah,that was the realization that I
had.
So when you ask, it's like,that's exactly what happened to
me.
Like I realized, wow, I'm notspending money, like huge
amounts, amounts of money on, onbig purchases, but it was all of
these small little leaks thatliterally were happening,
happening every day.

(16:36):
And so when you think about$10here,$30 here,$40 here every
single day, multiply that byseven days a week, multiply
that, you know, by four weeks ina month.
And I was like, that's where allmy money is going.
And so I, for me, I reallyneeded to understand where is my

(16:56):
money going?

Speaker (16:57):
That's So when you sat back and realized you couldn't
do the no spend for even 24hours, 48 hours.
'cause to be honest, I've had asimilar, like, you have enough,
you don't need.
For this month.
We're not buying anything.
I'm not even gonna lie to you.
Something it always, but it'snot an intentional thing.
I love the way you said that.
Like you'll go to a pharmacy andbuy a candy or you'll end up

(17:19):
buying because it's notintentional.
Like I don't get up and be likethe mall here I come.
Right.
That's usually not what happens.
It's usually that you're kind ofgoing along life.
Mm-hmm.
And you need to pick up a thingfor the kids like,'cause I have
two daughters pick up somethingfor my daughter and then it
turns into a$300 bill later.

Speaker 3 (17:35):
Yeah.

Speaker (17:35):
So how did you regulate yourself to hold yourself
accountable to, if you wantfreedom and you can't go 48
hours, what is the cost?
Like?
Did you calculate what the costof that was?

Speaker 3 (17:48):
Yeah, so the first thing that I did was I really
got to know what my numberswere.
So I calculated the things thatI absolutely, absolutely needed
to spend money on.
So this was, you know, payingthe mortgage, paying the light
bill, the fuel car payment, allof those things.
And when I added up thosenumbers and I subtracted it to
the amount of money that I wasbringing in each month, I was

(18:09):
like, I'm supposed to have thismuch money left over.
I never have that much moneyleft over.
So that was sort of number one,is really understanding what my
most essential expenses are.
Now, I wanna stop here for asecond, because this is not
about only spending money,making money to pay bills,
right?
We wanna add those things thatbring us joy and that we value.

(18:31):
But really understanding yourmost essential expenses is
really important.
And once you go from there, it'slike, okay, what is it that I
truly valued?
If somebody were to look at mybank account, my credit card
statements, my bank statements,it would say that I valued
clothes, shoes, hand backs,belts, accessories.
I didn't care about thosethings.
I wasn't a fashionista.

(18:52):
Mm-hmm.
But that was where my money wasgoing.
It was going to all of theseclothes.
And when I looked in my closet,I had clothes that I had only
worn once or never worn at all.
Tags on them,

Speaker 6 (19:03):
tags on

Speaker 3 (19:03):
them.
And I was like, I'm spendingmoney on things that I don't
even care about.
Can I minimize?
Or eliminate those things.
And that was sort of like thefirst sort of aha moment.
And then I sat down and waslike, where do I wanna spend
money on?
And by this time, so I mentionedthat I had seen that article, I
passed it on to my fiance bythis time now it's me and my

(19:26):
husband.
And now he's not a spender.
But I really sort of took a lookat where do we wanna spend money
on and I value travel.
And I said, I don't wanna giveup traveling.
I wanna continue to traveleverything from, you know, our
one or two week vacations to,you know, our.
Random weekend getaway trips.
Yeah.
And my husband was like, I valuefood.

(19:47):
Exactly.
He's like, I wanna, I wanna gointo a nice restaurant.
Yes.
So he valued, uh, food anddining experiences.
He was like, I don't wanna likenot be able to go out to a nice
restaurant.
I said, okay, great.
This is where we are going spendour money.
Anything that is not that we arereally going to question.
And so that was sort of how itstarted.

(20:07):
And one of the things that'sreally interesting is that we
didn't.
Reduce the amount of money thatwe spend out on food, but we
became more intentional.
And so instead of taking, youknow, ordering takeout or
DoorDash or Uber Eats, one ofthe things that we did was say,
okay, we are going to go out toa nice restaurant.
'cause again, he valued dining,dining experiences,

Speaker (20:30):
not DoorDash.
That's.
At your door.

Speaker 3 (20:32):
Exactly.
So you know, or having a mealthat you're like, I don't even
know what we ate last week.
Right?
Yeah.
So it was like, okay.
So we began to really have ourdate nights and make them really
intentional.
And so in that, we realized thatwhen we did that, we didn't
spend money on like these randomeating out experiences.
'cause we were so lookingforward to like having that meal

(20:55):
right.
At that really nice restaurant.
And what came from that was thatwe then slowly started spending
less on money or spending lessmoney on food because we were
spending more moneyintentionally on food.

Speaker (21:08):
Wow.
I think, but that's a huge, hugemind shift.
We have to pause and talk aboutthat, right?
Mm-hmm.
Because growing up in humblebeginnings, when you first make
money, you want, you know, youwanna look good, you wanna feel
good, right?
I'm Jamaican, my grandma used tosay that you don't wanna die and
just leave your children clothon boot.
Ah, mm-hmm.

(21:29):
Right?
Because we have tons of closets,full of things.
They're like nice things, right?
But it's still just things,right?
Yeah.
It's still stuff.
But for you to sit back and say,this is what I need, right?
I love my home, I need my car, Ineed the groceries.
This is my number.
That activity has so muchaccountability and honesty in it

(21:52):
that I don't, I don't thinkanyone does that.
Like I know I've done and to bequite frank, my husband thinks
very much like you do.
So he knows the number off thetop of his head.
Like for us to live the way welive every single day, this is a
number, right?
When you're living in survival.
Some people will say, I don'thave the time to sit here and

(22:13):
write.
Like, yes, it's rent.
If it's not rent, it's mortgage,it's my, my monthly metro card.
They're like, I don't have thetime to do that.
And if I do do it, it brings meheartache to go, Ooh, I need
that number to be good nextmonth.
How do I even make it to thatnumber?
Right?
But part of that mindset changethat we're talking about is one,

(22:36):
knowing the number, becomingfamiliar with it, and it helps
you dissect is this the numberfor me?
Because if, let's just say yourmonthly expenses is$5,000 right
now, but you really don't evenlike your house.

Speaker 4 (22:50):
Mm-hmm.
You

Speaker (22:51):
don't like your apartment, you want a better
car.
So then once you know thatyou're like, oh, in order to get
more and what I want, itactually needs to get to like
$7,000

Speaker 4 (23:01):
a month.
Mm-hmm.
It

Speaker (23:02):
needs to get to 10.
Do like, you know, we live inNew York, so.
That number can triple veryquickly.
Yep.
Right?
So to sit down and have thatlevel of intentionality about
your own life, is really hard.
There's so much emotional strainthere.
So how did you get there?
Was it your job just reallyirritating you where you're just

(23:25):
like, I need to know how to befree and exploring that to go,
I'm here for money and if I needmoney, what is the number to be
free?
How did you emotionally get tothe place where you're just
like, Wally, let's do some math.

Speaker 3 (23:40):
I think one of the things that I needed to sort of
like, uh, take a look at is whatwas the type of life that I
really wanted?
What were the things that Ivalued?
What were the things thatbrought me joy and I wanted to
add more of that.
Right.
When I talk about sort of likethe leaky bucket, we think about
our jobs as the faucet, right?

(24:00):
We turn on the faucet.
Or if you have a business, youturn on the faucet, money comes
outta that faucet and it goesinto a bucket.
One thing we wanna understand isdo we have leaks?
Do we have holes in thosebuckets, right where the money
is leaking out that we are notreally being intentional about?
And then the second thing isthat money is there to be used
as a tool to design the life youwant.

(24:22):
So when you think about the typeof life that you want, are you
using money as that resource?
As that tool?
I will say one thing forespecially, um, New York City
has a sort of different culture,but I was living in California
at the time, another high costof living area.
And one of the things that Ireally valued was spending time
with people.
And so I had a home.
We would have like people comeover.

(24:44):
Yes.
Um, or well, back in the day,what we would do was go out to
brunches.
Yes.
Right.
Love a good brunch.
And so one of the things that wedid was say, you know what, why
don't we just have people over?
Right.
Even if we paid for the food, itwas still gonna be cheaper.
Yeah.
Than going out and grabbing foodor grabbing, you know, having,
doing an activity outside.
So one of the things that wedid, we were like, let's just

(25:05):
have people over.
And then, you know, people wouldeither bring things or they
would have a potluck sort ofsituation if what we valued was
relationships.
We didn't have to sacrifice therelationship in order to spend
time with those people.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
Could we go on a hike?
Could we go to, you know?
Yeah.
Like, yeah.

Speaker (25:22):
It, it makes you really see money and time very
differently.
'cause to me that's what freedomis, right?
Yeah.
Freedom is allowing me to spendmy time the way I desire.
Right.
Right.
And I love how you say that.
Although money is deeply tied tothat, what we value are those
experiences in thoserelationships, and if you can't

(25:43):
meet your friend at brunch twicea month, you can actually make
some brunch and still maintainthat relationship and nurture
it.

Speaker 3 (25:50):
And it's not about not being able to afford it,
right?
Because there's some people whocannot afford those things.
But it's about saying, I can'tafford it, but I also wanna buy
my freedom, right?
Because that was always what wasin the back of my mind.
It was like, I can either spend$50 on Saturday, or I can add$50
to buy an hour or two of workthat I don't have to do anymore.

(26:13):
And I began to sort of equate,um, anything that I purchased.
So if I went to, uh, if I wentto, to, you know, Marshall's or
Ross or you know, TJ Maxx and Isaw an outfit that I wanted, I'm
like, is 1, 2, 3, 4 hours worthof work?
Worth that outfit.
Right?
When I went to Target, when Iwent to Home Goods,'cause that

(26:35):
was another store that I loved,oh, when I went to Home Goods,
I'm like, okay, is buying thisthing worth an hour, 2, 3, 4
worth of my work of, of working,of being at a place that I don't
wanna work at anymore?
And when I just took that twoseconds to just ask myself the
question, like, not what is justthe cost of this, but what is

(26:57):
the true price of it?
Right?
And if the price is that I'mgonna have to be working until
60, 65, 55, is that somethingthat I am willing to spend the
money on?
Right.
And just that caused a littlebit of friction and I was like,
nah, it's not worth it.
Or sometimes I was like, yes,I'm willing to work.

(27:18):
Pay a week's worth of work inorder to pay for this vacation
or to pay for this thing, right?
And so I began making those typeof decisions and it's, again,
it's not about not spendingmoney because I have worked, you
know, as a financial coach, Ihave worked with clients who
bring home a hundred grand amonth.

(27:38):
Okay?
Not a year, a hundred grand amonth.
And they have really little toshow for the amount of money
that they are making.
Um, and it's because they're notspending money in the ways that
really align with them.
Right?
A lot of it is like convenienceand it's like, how can we.
Balance because for them it'sfor them it's like they can

(27:59):
spend the money.
Yeah.
Right.
They really could spend themoney.
They're not at risk of losingthe roof over their head, but
how can they spend the money sothat it aligns with what they
value most?
Right.
Or whether or not I'm workingwith a single mom who makes
$60,000 a year, it's like, well,she also wants to be able to,
um, have experiences with herchild.
Right.
Like, how can you balance thosethings?

(28:21):
And it's about, okay, money is atool.
It's a limited resource rightnow.
How can I make sure that I'mspending it and using it in the
ways that I want?
Um, and I think asking myselfthat question, and again, my
husband's really not the bigspender, but for me it was like,
okay, do I value this enough toexchange my energy to ex

(28:43):
exchange my time Yeah.
For that amount of money?
And when I began to equateeverything that I purchased with
that it really sort of helpedme, um, spend money much more
intentionally.

Speaker (28:56):
Yeah.
No, that, that makes sense.
And it also forces you to askyourself the question, what does
freedom mean to you?

Speaker 4 (29:02):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker (29:02):
Right.
Because I would say freedom tome is freedom of my time.
My resources.
I wanna be able to build andcreate conversations and create
great experiences, but freedomto someone else could mean
something completely different.
And looking at how we definefreedom and how we use money as
a tool to support that freedom.

(29:22):
Is a game changer.
Mm-hmm.
Because to stand there and belike, is this outfit actually
worth a week?
Sometimes a week worth week of avacation.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Because let's be for real, whenyou, when we talk about them
good bags, like, you know, yeah,it is.
It is two weeks on a beachsomewhere and it's like, is this

(29:43):
bag worth that?
You know?
Or am I okay committing my timeto work or, you know, doing
things that I don't necessarilywant to do anymore.
How do you navigate that whensome of your clients come to you
and they're like, I need to bebetter with money.
Because I think online there'sso much conversation happening
right now about money and wealthbuilding and everyone should be

(30:04):
buying real estate and you know,buy stocks.
How do you start on the groundfloor?

Speaker 3 (30:10):
Okay, so first get to know your numbers.
You really need to understandhow much money you are making,
how much money you're bringinghome.
Um, a lot of times people say,oh, I make$150,000 a year.
Well, you're not living off of$150,000 a year because after
insurance and federal taxes andcity taxes and state taxes, and,
mm-hmm.
Medicare and Social Securityafter all those expenses you

(30:33):
really want, or after all thosedeductions, you really wanna
know how much are you actuallybringing home and how much do
you have to use, right?
And it's a simple equation.
It's your income minus yourexpenses and whatever's left
over is what you can use toreach financial goals, to save
money, and to invest money andto build wealth.

(30:54):
Now when we're thinking aboutinvestments.
There's so many different waysto invest.
You can invest in real estate.
That's a great wealth builder.
You can invest inentrepreneurship.
Entrepreneurship has no cap tothe amount of money that you can
make in entrepreneurship.
Right?
Yep.
It does take time.
Yes.
But it is, um, it is a greatwealth builder.
And then the stock market, andfor me, I really, because I had

(31:17):
a nine to five job and I didn'thave this entrepreneurial spirit
at the time, I was like, okay, Idon't really wanna do real
estate.
It's too much of a barrier toentry, right?
You have to have a down payment.
You have to be, you know, sortof decide what, be willing to be
a landlord in New York City,right?
Yeah.
It's not an easy task.
Right?
And so, but, but for somepeople, that's what they really

(31:40):
enjoy, right?
Yeah.
So those are sort of like thethree main ways of building
wealth and sort of figuring outwhat they mean to you and which
one aligns more with where yourstage in life is.
So at the time for me was like,okay.
What is this stock market thing?
I thought the stock market wasnothing more than gambling.

(32:01):
I was like, when people leavethe casinos, they cry.
And when people are at WallStreet, they cry.
So I equated the stock marketand stock market investing as
gambling and I really needed tounderstand what it was.
And it was something as simpleas someone saying, you are an
investor.

(32:21):
If you have a workplaceretirement account, if you have
a 401k or a 4 0 3 B or a IRA,you can be investing and you
should, that money should beinvested.
And that was sort of like an ahamoment for me.
I was like, oh yeah, I think Ihave one of those things.
Yeah, I think I have a workplaceretirement account.

(32:41):
And when I began to understandthe power of compounding
interests, right?
This is literally the definitionof money, making money for you.
We all hear.
Passive income.
Entrepreneurship is not passive.
It is very active.
It is very active.
Real estate is not passive.
Right.
When we think of really, youmake the money one time and then

(33:04):
that money grows for you.
Yeah.
When we're thinking aboutpassive, um, uh, income.
Investing in the stock market ispassive income.
You make it one time and thenyou let that money grow for you
and you start off by puttingmoney in.
So 401k, it is not sexy.
The thing is that people think,oh, you need to have four.

(33:24):
I love that.

Speaker (33:25):
It's not sexy.
It's, it's not, it's not, it'snot, they're not making music
videos about the stock market.
Like

Speaker 3 (33:31):
they're, you know, people think about the stock
market.
When I thought about it, Ithought about someone sitting in
front of like four computerscreens looking at red and green
lines, and I didn't understandthat.
Like no one I knew in my familywas investing in the stock
market, but when it was brokendown so easily that the money
that you put inside of your 401kis money that can and should be

(33:52):
invested.
We wanna take a look at that.
But I'm gonna take a pause.
I'm gonna look at this cameraright here.

Speaker 6 (33:57):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
Because the biggest mistake that I see is that
people will put money into their401k or their workplace
retirement account, and theydon't realize that investing is
a two step process.
Number one is making thecontribution.
Number two is choosing theinvestments.
And this was the mistake that Iwas making.
I was putting money or havingmoney deducted from my paycheck

(34:20):
and going to A TSP, which is athrift savings plan for, um,
people who work in federalservice.
And I was putting money inthere.
I did not know that you had toactually make the decision to
invest money.
And so when I work with myclients now, this is one of the
biggest mistakes that I see.
People who have been puttingmoney into their 401k having

(34:43):
money deduct.
They're like, okay, check Wally.
I'm putting money aside into myretirement account.
And they don't realize that it'sliterally sitting in nothing
more than a glorified savings

Speaker (34:54):
account, savings account.

Speaker 3 (34:55):
Girl.
Yes.
So say what now?
So seriously, yes.
If you have not looked intothis, this is one of the biggest
things that you want to be doingis to make sure that that money
is being invested and sort oflike the next level is to make
sure that those investments aredoing what you want it to be
doing.
Yeah.
You don't have to be superrisky.

(35:15):
You don't need to be, uh, a, youknow, stockbroker or have a
finance degree, but you justwanna make sure that that money
is doing what you need to bedoing.
And I'm gonna.
Plug a book here.
Mm-hmm.
There's a book called, um, uh,the Simple Path to Wealth.
Mm-hmm.
It was written by, um, someonenamed JL Collins.
It is a great book.
And this book was a collectionof letters that he wrote to his,

(35:38):
uh, teenage and young adultdaughter Aw.

Speaker 6 (35:41):
About

Speaker 3 (35:42):
how to build wealth.
She wasn't listening to him.

Speaker 6 (35:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:45):
Um, and he was in the finance industry and he really
simplifies what it means tobuild wealth and how to do it
and how you begin, how do youlearn to look at different type
of investments?
It was the book, it is the bookthat I have given out the most,
and it is the book that reallysort of helped me to understand

(36:06):
how to begin investing and howto use those in simple, in
simple terms.
'cause even when I have clientswho work with me, they might
even have more knowledge than Idid when I first started.
And they still feel overwhelmedor they feel confused or they
feel scared.
Yeah.
Right.
They're like, as I mentioned,they're like, I don't know.
I hear people lose money.

Speaker (36:25):
Listen, that's why I, if I'm honest, that's why my
husband takes care of that.
Like, the 401k thing.
He made me aware of that likeyears ago.
Darling, you're just saving themoney.
Yeah.
The, the money's doing nothing.
You need to, but I think.
Some people have interestmm-hmm.
In finance, other people wereraised to somewhat ignore it.
Like you said in your household,no one was balancing the

(36:48):
checkbook at the table, right?
Mm-hmm.
And that's happens a lot in letalone investing li let alone
investing.
Mm-hmm.
And that happens a lot in aCaribbean household.
No one's sitting there saying,listen, I'm, I have a hundred
and this is how I'm breaking itdown.
This is how you can manage acheckbook at the, I feel like at
the most, if I think about myfamily in a wide, in terms of my

(37:09):
cousins and all at the most,they would sit down and be like,
okay, the ConEd bill is X.
Go get a check.
This is how you pay it a moneyorder.
Like, and go get a money order.
Like this is how you actuallyexecute, dispersing the money.
Right.
No one I, I feel like in theCaribbean community sits down
and go, this is our monthlyexpenses.
This is like our discretionaryfund.

(37:31):
You know, I call it the funmoney, right?
This is, this is what we putaside for a rainy day.
This is our emergency fund.
This is what we invest.
While I have friends that arefrom other ethnicities and other
race where I have literally satin their kitchen on a random
Tuesday, and they're talking totheir child about the stock

(37:52):
market, they're talking to theirchild about why entrepreneurship
is important regardless of whatyou do in corporate.

Speaker 4 (37:59):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker (38:00):
And this was me in my twenties, like, how is is this
table conversation?
Yeah.
And they're like, absolutely.
I want my son to know that heshould be doing X, Y, and Z.
You need to have a businesschecking account soon as you
finish high school.
Separate those monies.
You need to separate thosemonies.
I want you to have an LLC.
And once it starts, and this isme in my twenties.

(38:23):
Like listening to older friendhave a conversation with his
like 10-year-old son in thekitchen.
Right?
So it's like how do you helpbridge the gap to now have.
Those conversations flow throughour communities in a more open
and honest way without shame.
Right.
Because I think often whathappens when, you know you're an

(38:44):
immigrant in this country,there's some shame around not
knowing, which is weird'cause noone knows everything.
Right.
But there's some shame around,well I should have known this,
or I should have taught youthis, or, and I could.
And sometimes your parents don'teven know their parents never
taught them.
Right.
So how do you flatten the, the,the playing field when you're
having conversations with peoplewho have extreme wealth from

(39:05):
people who just made.
Their first big girl job, how doyou help them be comfortable
with, the

Speaker 3 (39:11):
shame of not knowing?
So there, these are really goodquestions.
There's a couple of things,right?
First is, um, you know, as Imentioned, my, my dad is an
immigrant.
I'm a daughter of an immigrant,and in his country, they did not
trust banks.
So there is this distrust offinancial institutions where you
put money, your life savings ina bank and it really may not be

(39:34):
there next week.
And so I think that sometimesthat is also that some of the
things that happened.
So we hear, you know, puttingmoney under, under the

Speaker (39:41):
mattress,

Speaker 3 (39:42):
putting money under the mattress.
Right.
My dad, he had money, um,literally money sitting in a,
um, safe deposit box.
Not even it was in the bank, butlike, not in a bank, bank
account, you know, and he saidthey didn't know what was in
there.
Yeah.
He knew what was in there, so hehad like money in a safe deposit
box.
And so there is a little bit oflike this distrust, right?

(40:04):
What they know about finances orwhat they know about their
financial institutions canreally sort of rattle and shape
the way they.
Interact with money and with thesystems that we have here.
And even here, we have heard,you know, of banks failing,
right?
Yes.
But we don't necessarilyunderstand you don't lose your
money, right?
Yeah.
Because we have things like FDICinsured, right?

(40:26):
Yeah.
You wanna make sure that thebank that you are banking with
does have, um, is FDIC insured.
Um, so it's not like even if thebank fails, it's not like your
money is not there.
It's not

Speaker (40:35):
gonna disappear.

Speaker 3 (40:36):
It's not gonna disappear.
Exactly.
But um, when we hear that, likethere were people who were like,
oh, I gotta go get my money out,right?
Because they don't have thisunderstanding.
And that comes from the lack ofknowledge even and the lineage
of that distrust.
Right?
Exactly.
Um, or I remember when I was,uh, maybe I was maybe in high
school or maybe 18, 19 yearsold, that I had a friend who was

(40:58):
like, don't bank with this bank.
Every time I put money in there,they take money out.
And it wasn't until like laterthat I realized what was
happening was that they wereoverdrafting.
Mm.
And they were so the bank wastaking money money out outta
their account.
Exactly.
But they were like, oh, they washitting them with the fees.
There was all of those fees,right?

(41:18):
Yes.
So, and then now you're, youbecome like someone who's like,
oh yeah, what my parents saidabout not trusting the bank is
true.
Um, also, you know, here in theUnited States we have gotten
better, but we have a long wayto go with financial literacy,
right?
Understanding what is a checkingaccount?
What is a savings account?
How do you shop, how do you useyour debit card?

(41:40):
How do you tap your phone,right?
Like, how do you make sure thatyou avoid fees?
There's so many banks now thatdon't even have fees, and I work
with clients that still arepaying for their checking
account.
You know,$10 a month,$12 amonth, and it's like, okay.
Again, we don't know what wedon't know.

Speaker 5 (41:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (41:59):
So it's okay not to know these things, but to really
surround yourself with peoplewho do know.
Yeah.
Right.
If you want your, you wannatreat your, if your, if you want
your money to work for you, youhave to take the time to
understand it and to care forit.
Something that you said a, alittle while ago was, you know,
like, what about if you don'thave the time for it?

(42:20):
If you don't take care of money,it's not gonna be there to take
care of you.
Right.
When we're thinking aboutmanaging finances, I teach my
clients to have weekly 15 minutemoney dates.
In the beginning, I tell them,set a timer for 15 minutes.
One of the reasons why this isreally important is because if
we sit down to manage our money.

(42:42):
We think it's gonna take 45minutes, or we think it's gonna
take an hour and a half, we'renever gonna do it.
Or we do it once and then neveragain do it again.
I'm like, when you're havingyour 15 minute money date, ask
yourself these two questions.
What's happened in the lastseven days that I didn't plan
for that?
Now I need to adjust.
Right?
Maybe you got a parking ticket.
Yeah, maybe you got a hospitalbill.

(43:03):
And it's like, oh, I didn't planon doing this.
This is an expense.
And if you're driving in the

Speaker (43:06):
city, you'd most definitely got a ticket.

Speaker 3 (43:08):
Like, and it's like, okay, so what are some of the
expenses that, some of thoseunexpected expenses that I
hadn't really anticipated, howcan I um, adjust for it?
Adjust for it, and then.
Ask yourself.
So that's question number one.
And question number two iswhat's coming up in the next
seven days?
That when I was planning how Iwas gonna use my money, now I

(43:29):
need to make adjustments becauseI forgot so-and-so's birthday is
coming up, or I have a babyshower to attend to, or my kid
has a field trip and I have topay, you know,$40 for X, Y, Z.
So it's really when you'rehaving your money date, ask
yourself those two questions.
And it's really important to, Ithink a lot of people equate
managing their money withtracking.

(43:51):
So it's like holding onto thereceipts, looking at all the
transactions.
Listen, tracking is helpful.
It gives you information, but Idon't teach my clients to track
because what happens when you'retracking your money is that.
All it's telling you, it'swhat's already happened.

Speaker (44:07):
Yeah.
It's not making you plan movingforward and it can also
overwhelm you.
Yeah.
I think that's one thing thatpeople don't talk about, like
about the tracking system.
The whole point of having theself conversation about freedom
and what it means to have yourmoney work with you is because
you desire better.
Yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
And sometimes you can get stuckin the what has already

(44:28):
happened.
Mm-hmm.
Like, dammit, like what if youwould've done that?
What if you would've been like,I couldn't even go 48 hours
without no spending.
Mm-hmm.
You know what?
Forget it.
Mm-hmm.
You know what I mean?
So that's, I also don'tencourage tracking because it's
too, it's too past.
It's too much of the rear viewmirror.
It doesn't help you see whereyou wanna go.
Yes, I did that.

(44:49):
It sucked.
How do I move forward?
So I don't, I don't track.
I'm more of like, last week wasa crazy week.
How are we

Speaker 3 (44:55):
gonna make next week better?
Yes.
I love that.
I actually use that rear viewmirror analogy.
I'm like, listen, when you'redriving in a car.
You have a small rear viewmirror to sort of see what's
happening in the back.
As I mentioned, it is helpfulinformation for some people they
can track.
It's not overwhelming, go forit.
Mm-hmm.
If that is helpful to you.
But when you're driving in thecar, the biggest piece of glass

(45:17):
that's in that car is that frontwindshield to help you see
what's coming up ahead.
Yeah.
To help you see what detours, tohelp you see the speed bumps,
what exits you need to take, andto really have that, uh, that
forward, um, lookingperspective.
Yeah.
And it's also like when peopleare on a diet or when people are
trying to minimize the amountthat they're drinking, trying to

(45:39):
decide at the bar how muchyou're gonna drink is a little
too late.
Not, it's not really a goodtime.
Right.
It's not really a good time.
You wanna make that decisionbefore you go out.
What am I going to eat today?
Am I gonna have dessert?
Am I not gonna have dessert?
How much am I gonna drink?
Is it gonna be one glass of wineor is it gonna be two?
And it's the same thing withyour money before you get that
income.
Make a decision about where youwant that money to go.

Speaker (46:03):
One thing why I love this discussion, and I just
wanted to stop and highlightthis, is, this is the premise of
this podcast, right?
How we come to define the wordsthat drive us is really
important and that definitioncan change and now that we're
talking about freedom andfinance and financial literacy,
I think in our communities weoften don't give ourselves

(46:26):
grace, right?
That's my short and sweet.
We don't give ourselves gracefrom what we didn't know.
We just, we get stuck and we, wekinda hold ourselves in this
place of, well, yeah, I blew ahundred dollars or$5,000 and I
made this bad decision, or Ico-signed a car.
Like, you know, all of thesecrazy stories you hear.

(46:47):
But if you don't give yourselfthe grace to say, I know what I
know today.
How am I gonna define who Iwanna be tomorrow?
Then you're just gonna be stuck.
So you either have to pick whatview you wanna be, look out of,
do you're gonna constantlysquint and be looking in that
rear view mirror or are yougonna like open up your car, get

(47:07):
in that shit'cause it belongs toyou and drive forward in life.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
I think also shame is such a powerful emotion.
Um, we really want to give,think about our past selves with
a lot of compassion, right?
You can only make decisionsbased on what you knew at the
time.
Like young Wally made a lot ofspending decisions that I'm
like, oh, she was so cute.

(47:34):
She just bought, oh my gosh,save, she just bought all those
shoes, but she just didn't know.
Right?
But I also decided that I didn'tknow and I wanted to learn.
Right?
And one of the things that I, Ithink is important to define as
well is what is financialfreedom?
Or what is financialindependence?

(47:54):
Financial independence at itssimplest sort of terminology, is
becoming good stewards of yourmoney so that you build enough.
Of a nest egg, that it generatespassive income so that you could
live off of it, right?
Mm-hmm.
So financial independence iswhen you have enough that you
don't need to work anymorebecause you have enough to pay

(48:17):
your bills, and that you have tobuild that.
Yeah.
Right?
You have to steward that moneycorrectly, and you have to build
that.
And so yes, you're putting moneyon essential things.
You're putting money for funmoney.
This is not about, um, you know,again, frugally your way to
financial independence.
Yeah.
It's about, okay, what is itthat I value?
I'm gonna spend money on thethings that I value, on the

(48:40):
things that I bring that bringsme joy.
But I'm also gonna take care offuture Wally.
I'm also gonna take care offuture Sika.
Yeah.
I'm gonna take care of thefuture self.
And, and again, it's not aboutnever working again.
It's about becoming workoptional, where working becomes
optional.
Right.
Where you can work on projectsthat you really value.

(49:01):
Yes.
Even if the pay is low.
Yeah.
Because you're like, I'm good.
Yeah.

Speaker (49:05):
My, my lifestyle is good.
Right.
My lifestyle is good.
And something that you said tome the first time we talked
months ago that really stuckwith me, and I love that you use
the term again, is being a goodsteward over money.
I always say that some peopleare religious, some people are
spiritual, sometimes the peopleare not believers.
And that doesn't necessarilydefine if you have a good life
or not.
But something you said to methat really stuck out to me is

(49:28):
that financial.
Resources are blessings.

Speaker 4 (49:31):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker (49:32):
And you have to be a good steward over that blessing.
Mm-hmm.
Because then how do you getmore?
Right?
Yeah.
And it made me think about allthe things that happen in our
lives from kids to friends, torelationships that God aligns in
our path.
And it's like, are you gonna bea good steward over that
relationship?
Mm-hmm.
Are you gonna pour into it?
Like how, how do we operate inthose spaces?

(49:52):
To be a good steward and to bejust good humans.
And I love that you help usreframe money in that way.

Speaker 3 (50:02):
I think it's also important for our communities,
because many of us are firstgeneration college graduates.
We are first gen professionals,and we're first gen wealth
builders.
And one of the mistakes that Ialso see is that.
Okay.
You might be the oldest or youmight be the one.
Right?
Like you made it out.
Mm-hmm.
And so now it's like bringingeverybody up with you.

(50:22):
And one of the things that Iwant to sort of have everybody
reflect on is that when you dothat, you're actually doing a
disservice.
'cause you are not setting thenext generation up for success.
And so it's not about saying,oh, this is mine.
No.
Like, make sure you set thoseparameters about, you know, when

(50:42):
you get that phone call aboutsomebody needing something and
making sure it comes from aplace of wanting to not needing
to, Hmm.
Right.
So many times we give out ofguilt and it doesn't feel good.
Guilt.
And obligation.
And obligation.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so we really wannaunderstand, okay, how can I make
sure that I take care of thethings, the people, the

(51:04):
situations that I really careabout without foregoing what I
need in my own life.

Speaker 6 (51:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:10):
Right.
And.
When, and not only about thepast generation, but also taking
care of the next generation.
You and I had talked about, youknow, for many of us, we are our
parents' retirement plans.
Yes.
Right.
My parent, my dad got his firstaccess to his 401k, to an access
to a 401k when he was 60.
Geez.
He never had a job where he hada 401k and so they've never said

(51:33):
it.
Yeah.
They were never like, oh, youare my retirement plan.
But there is that.
Oh, you take care.
It's a

Speaker (51:38):
subconscious expectation in the com in the
community.
Yeah.
It really is, and we talk aboutit now that it's a sense of
obligation, like they took careof me, so now I have to take
care of them.
But then I always say, then, youknow, you're limiting your
growth with that perspective.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
Yes.
And also the next generation.
Yes.
Then we're do, we're really sortof redoing the same cycle.
Cycle and it's just like, okay.
How can we make sure that themoney, that we work hard for,
the money that does come intoour hands, even if it comes
easy.
Right?
Even whatever money that itcomes, how can we make sure that
we're good stewards of it bymaking sure that it aligns with

(52:13):
all of the things that we value?
And my sort of, um, challengefor you is to make sure that
you're not just valuing thetoday, but you're also valuing
the tomorrow.
Yeah.
Right?
How do we make sure that ourkids don't have to take care of
us?
Yes.
Right?
So how and

Speaker (52:30):
how and ensure that they live their full lives
without the burden.
Because I think while again,it's that underlying shame,
while we all know it's a burden,it's like, well, you're supposed
to do it, but it, no one wantsto do anything that makes them
feel guilt and hardship whiledoing it.
Mm-hmm.
Like, how well would that be?
Like, you know what I mean?
Both experiences are horrible.

(52:51):
Yeah.
So I agree with you.
I'm always like, I wanna ensurethat my daughters and then my
daughter's, daughters are notworried about what's happening
with mom.

Speaker 3 (52:59):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's really important.
Also, I think it's about makingsure you are setting boundaries.
Mm.
Right.
Boundaries with yourself.
So for me, it was like, no, ifyou are going for that toilet
paper and laundry detergent,make sure you only buy the, so I
had to set boundaries withmyself first, girl,

Speaker (53:18):
facts.
And

Speaker 3 (53:19):
then I had to set boundaries with the people that
I did care about.
Right.
Because it wasn't like, oh, I'mnever going to help them.
It was like, no, I'm going tohelp them after I have helped
myself first.
And for me, that was like, howdo I make sure that I take care
of the things that I need today?
How do I make sure that I setthose financial goals right.
Um, buying the new car, savingfor the vacation, and also

(53:41):
taking care of future Wally whenshe wanted to retire.
Yes.
And also making sure that I takecare of my parents if I wanted
to.
Yeah.
And it's not just parents,right?
Siblings, cousins.
Cousins,

Speaker (53:53):
aunts.
Listen, the person on the blockthat you call your aunt, that's
not really your aunt that yougrew up with, right?
It's true.
But I also always say that.
In order to properly help you.
'cause everyone I feel like hashad that conversation when
you're perceived as making itright.
That where it's like, girl, yougot the money iCal and listen,
I'm from the Caribbean.
It's like I'm making a everymonth.

(54:15):
Like, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
It's like whoa, whoa, whoa,whoa, whoa.
I can't be wasteful of money.
'cause then me and you is gonnabe sitting underneath that
coconut tree, right?
Like I have to be mindful notonly of my current life, but my
life for tomorrow, then mydaughter's lives.

Speaker 3 (54:33):
Yeah.

Speaker (54:34):
Like I cannot essentially take food out of my
one plate to give you then howdo I eat?
How does my children eat?
Because ultimately they're thepeople That's who I'm above all,
you know, responsible for.

Speaker 3 (54:47):
Yeah.
There.
There's one thing that I wantedto touch on too, because I think
this can also.
Um, deter or de uh, derail.
There we go.
Yeah.
I can, uh, derail Our financialsuccess is this idea of
lifestyle inflation.
Mm.
Right.
And it's the more money youmake, you begin to spend a

(55:08):
little bit more money.
Yes.
You upgrade the car, you upgradethe house.
How you stop telling the peoplemy business, you upgrade, you
know how you vacation.
Yeah.
You upgrade those things.
And it's really important alsoto, to think about, okay, as I
make more money, am I alsosetting money aside?

(55:29):
Or not even setting money aside,but you know, are, are
allowances being upgraded?

Speaker 6 (55:34):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (55:35):
You know, allowances for how people ask me for money.
One of the things that I set upwhen I realized that I was
getting those calls, I said,okay, I don't wanna get a call.
My light is being turned offtoday.
'cause you knew your light wasbeing turned off months ago On
this day.
A week ago ago.
At least months ago.
Okay.
And so I said, okay, I, I needto transfer it from my savings

(55:56):
account to here and it's gonnatake two to three days.

Speaker 4 (55:58):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 (55:59):
And it was amazing how all of a sudden they were
able to access that money.
And so that was just a boundarythat I set up.
Right, right.
There's sometimes it's like alast minute thing.
You got a flat tire or tow truckor something like that.
But when I was getting thosephone calls of like those last
minute.

Speaker (56:15):
I need, I need a thousand dollars today.
And it's like, what is wrongwith you?

Speaker 3 (56:18):
And it was like, okay, hold on a second.
I was like, okay, well I don'thave access to that money today,
so you're gonna have to wait twoto three days.
And it was really interestinghow those things happened,
right?
Like all of a sudden they knew.
But if they did call me the weekbefore, I'm like, okay, how can
I help them help themselves?
Right?
Yeah.
Now sometimes there's nothingthat they could do or little

(56:39):
that they could do, or theycould only do it halfway.
But I want to also in.
Encourage them and empower themto problem solve.
Yeah.
Right.
It's like, okay, so you knowthat you, you're not gonna have
enough money for rent that'scoming up in a week.
Okay.
What could we do?
Yeah.
Right.
And, and I was just having thisconversation with my mom'cause I
said, you know, things are sodifferent today.
You can really make money somuch easier today.

(57:02):
Right.
You can hop on Uber Eats andstart making deliveries.
Yeah.
You can go on Facebookmarketplace and sell things that
you know you haven't used.
You know that while

Speaker (57:11):
that's sitting in your house collecting dust.
Yeah.
There is, there is efforts andways that you can go about
making money, but I think themajority of it, especially in
our community, is removing thatshame.
Right.
Because I also feel in order foryou to make that call, to call
me for money mm-hmm.
There was so much internalfighting that was going on.

Speaker 4 (57:28):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker (57:29):
I know you didn't even wanna make that call.
Listen, Jamaicans is pro, propeople enough, like they don't
wanna make that call.
So it, it hurts me to have totell you No too.
'cause I don't, I knew you.
Fought with yourself to make thecall.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm sad for you that thiscall is not gonna end in the way
that you need it to end, but Iwant to also encourage you to.

(57:52):
Let's figure out how this cannever happen again.
Yes.
Where you never feel this way,and I never feel this way
because if I could, I would, butif I can, I can't and I cannot.
I have, like you said, thoseboundaries.
I have to have strong boundariesaround me and my lifestyle and
the lifestyle of my children.
Or then we all up under thecoconut tree.

Speaker 3 (58:11):
Yeah.

Speaker (58:12):
Like

Speaker 3 (58:12):
one of the things that I did was actually set up
an emergency fund that wasspecifically for family.
Oh.
Because I was like, I know thatthis is gonna happen.
And so if you find yourself tobe the person that gets that
phone call often.
Mm-hmm.
I set up a fund and I was like,okay, I'm not gonna pull for my
vacation fund.
I'm not gonna pull for myretirement fund.
I'm not gonna pull for myemergency fund, but I have a

(58:34):
fund or I have, um, a familyfund.
Yeah.
That, that's where I pull from.
When that money has beenexhausted, then I don't have
anymore to give.
Yeah, right.
Because I also don't do loanlending money.
I'm like, right.
Just give it away.
Yeah, just give it like, justgive it away.
Yeah.
And so that's always thequestion that I ask myself,
like, I'm not gonna get thismoney back.

(58:54):
Can I afford to give it away?
Right.
Because if not, then you becomethe debt collector.
Mm-hmm.
And there's resentment and it'sjust like when that person who
owes you money is nowvacationing, you're like, oh no.
Now you see OIG,

Speaker (59:06):
and then you're like, oh yeah, must

Speaker 3 (59:08):
be nice.
And so I think it's reallyimportant to also figure out
when is it that you can give,how, what are the parameters and
the um, uh, yeah, the parametersthat you wanna set.
Mm-hmm.
Um, the guardrails.
The guardrails that you wannaset to make sure that you
protect yourself as well.

(59:28):
Um, and you know, when we'retalking about shame, a lot of
the shame when it comes tomaking bad money decisions,
right?
Or, um, mistakes that we've madeor regret, um, it can really
stop us from making betterdecisions in the future.

Speaker 6 (59:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:42):
And this is where the compassion for your.
Past self really comes intoplay.
Like I didn't know how to investwhen I was 18.
Yeah.
Right.
Or when I got my first job whenI was 20.
Right.
I didn't know how to do thosethings, but I know now.
Yeah.
Right.
I'm going to ask for the help.
We have so much information.
There's so many books, podcasts,YouTube, videos that will show

(01:00:04):
us and teach us, but also checkthose things, right?
Because not something that worksfor you may not work for me.
Mm-hmm.
Something that works forsomebody else may not work for
me, but it's reallyunderstanding what is it that.
I align with.
And if you walk away from aconversation not really
understanding, you're like, I'mgonna just trust'em because, uh,

(01:00:26):
they seem to know what they'redoing.
Maybe'cause they have the titleof like, financial advisor.
No, no, no.
You wanna make sure that whenyou walk away, you know exactly
mm-hmm.
What's happening.
If there's any questions.
Right.
Don't pull the trigger on makinga decision with your money if
you don't understand how itworks.
Um.

(01:00:47):
And you don't need to knoweverything.
You just need to know again,what is your income, what are
your expenses?
Yeah.
How much money am I saving for arainy day, but also how much
money am I saving to spend?

Speaker 6 (01:01:00):
Yeah.
There's

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
some money that is meant for you to spend, right?
You're saving for a vacation,you're saving for a down
payment, you're saving, youknow, to remodel the house or
the kitchen.
Right.
And it's like sometimes peoplesay, oh, I'm the type of person
that I save money, but, and thenI spend it.
I'm like, well, was that thepurpose of it?
Yeah.
And don't feel guilty aboutthat.
Yes.
And is there some money whereit's do not touch unless you're

(01:01:21):
dying fund.
Right.
That emergency fund.
It's like, okay, set thoseparameters today.
Yes.
Right.
When am I gonna be able to usethis emergency and how do I even
define an emergency?
Is it a phone call?
Is it if I lose my job?
Is it if I see a, you know,something that I've been wanting
that's on sale?
Is that an emergency?
Right.
Really define what an emergencyis.

(01:01:42):
Yeah.
So that when you're saving moneyin an emergency fund, you know
when exactly to use it.

Speaker (01:01:47):
And what does freedom mean to you?
Right.
Yeah.
Because I think we all desirefreedom.
Freedom of our time, freedom ofour resources.
Mm-hmm.
Freedom of our minds.
Yeah.
Right.
And, and giving yourself thatspace.
Like I always say, make space tobe, well make space to identify
what freedom is to you.
Because sometimes, and I knowthis'cause I've lived it, while

(01:02:07):
you're running on the survivalmode, you know.
Train of just like, I need tomake this, get, this needs to be
done, and I just need to getthis amount, and I just need,
you're just often alwaysthinking about, how do I just
get past this one thing?

Speaker 3 (01:02:21):
Yeah.

Speaker (01:02:22):
Give yourself time and freedom to identify what does it
look like for me tomorrow?
What is that number and how do Iget there?

Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
I, I think that is reallyimportant because for some
people it's, I never wanna haveto work again.
Okay, good.
Go for you.
You know?
Right.
The thing is that you can reachit.

Speaker 6 (01:02:42):
Yeah.
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:02:43):
So what are the steps that I need to make today?
What are the decisions that Ineed to make today so that I can
reach financial freedom?
Right.
Is it that I just wanna havemore control over my time?
I wanna have more freedom of mytime.
I don't wanna have to work 50hours, 60 hours a week.
Yeah.
I wanna work 20 hours a week.
Right.
Really defining what that is.

(01:03:04):
But financial independence issuper.
Um, accessible if you just makedecisions about how you want
your money to function for you.
And it's not gonna happen byonly saving money.
It's going to happen by using awealth building vehicle.
And as we talked about, thatcould be real estate, that could
be entrepreneurship, that couldbe the stock market use.

(01:03:26):
Um, any one of those vehicles.
And even when we are thinkingabout real estate, there's so
many different ways to use

Speaker (01:03:32):
real estate, right?
This real estate is such a, abroad

Speaker 3 (01:03:34):
space, right?
Investing is the same way, andso is entrepreneurship, right?
Yeah.
So there's so many differentbranches off of those three
investing vehicles, but chooseone, right?
You wanna buy things and spendmoney on things that are going
to appreciate in value.
And what does appreciate invalue mean just means that it's
gonna, it's gonna, um, grow invalue.
Mm-hmm.
Right?

(01:03:54):
So if you buy a stock.
At$10, it's gonna go to$12 andmaybe 13 and maybe 40, right?
If you buy a real estateproperty today for$200,000,
you're hoping that it's gonna goup to 250 to 300,000, right?
Or maybe that it's cash flowing,right?
When we think aboutentrepreneurship, right?
So it's really important to sortof think about an investment

(01:04:16):
vehicle that is gonna help youbuild wealth, um, so that um,
you can reach financial freedomand so that you can reach
financial independence.

Speaker (01:04:25):
I love this.
Wally, you have come andpreached to us today, right?
I just want you to know so muchabout our conversation is Yes.
About freedom and how we find itand how financial literacy can
help you get there.
But I love how you ensurepeople's hearts are also treated
well, right?
I think you nurture peoplethrough the difficulties of

(01:04:47):
financial freedom.
So tell the audience how theycan stay in contact with you,
where they can find you andaccess your services.

Speaker 3 (01:04:54):
Yeah, absolutely.
So, um, as I mentioned, Iretired at 39 and became work
optional.
I'm exercising the workoptional.
Mm-hmm.
Now, because now I do have myown financial coaching business
where I help people who areinterested in learning how to.
Spend money, how to save moneyand how to build wealth through
it.
Um, and you can find me in allmy socials through financially

(01:05:16):
thriving.com.
Um, and I'm most active onInstagram, so you can see like
financial tips and things likethat, um, which is financially
underscore thriving.
Nice.

Speaker (01:05:26):
Wally, thank you so much for being here.
This has been amazing.
I'm truly blessed to have youand I hope the audience have
found so much value in yourconversations, just growing
through what freedom is to you.
And thank you so much.
This is how do you divinefreedom.
See you on the next one.

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