March 19, 2025 • 60 mins
In this episode, we welcome Ben Jeanty, the Founder and Host of the 'I Came Home to Heal' podcast. Ben shares his journey of growing up in a conservative Caribbean Christian family and his challenges in searching for his identity and sense of home. I share my experience of seeking peace and solitude from a young age, rather than feeling at home in different spaces. We discuss the importance of finding a personal sanctuary, the danger of using external structures to hide, and the critical need for balance in loving and serving others without compromising personal well-being. Join us as we explore the meaning of home, the impact of church culture on mental health, and the importance of creating a safe space for healing and growth.
Thank you for listening and for always adding new dimensions to your definitions. Keep growing, keep exploring, and keep defining life on your terms.🌐 Explore the new website www.howdoyoudivine.com
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Meet our Founder & Host 🎙️
Sanika is a storyteller, communicator, and creator passionate about exploring self-discovery, culture, and the power of words. With a background in technology and marketing communications; she has built a platform dedicated to authentic conversations that inspire growth, challenge perspectives, and amplify voices.
As the host of How Do You Divine?, she invites listeners to redefine meaning, embrace transformation, and navigate life—one word at a time. Her mission? To create space for reflection, empowerment, and deeper connections through storytelling.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker (00:00):
Hi everyone, and welcome back to this episode of
How Do You Divine?
And on this episode, we willexplore how we have come to the
define home and what does homelook like to you.
I like to welcome Ben.
Founder and host of the I camehome Te Heal podcast.
Ben, thank you for being here.
(00:20):
Thanks.
This is amazing and I'm so gladto have you here because when I
heard the name of your podcast,it just, it sinks deep.
It sinks really, really deep.
I came home to heal.
So tell me about early days ofhow you define what was home.
Before you came to heal.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Whoa.
Yeah.
So first, thank you for havingme again.
Uh, this was amazing.
Um, glad to be here.
Um, home before I did the work,looked like, um, my little
space, my room in, uh, Mount Clejersey, my childhood home.
Um, that was like my sanctuary.
(01:01):
That was like the place that Iwithdrew to when I.
Felt overwhelmed or excited ornervous or anxious like that was
home.
Speaker (01:09):
Oh yeah, your room.
Well, sounds like you'refortunate enough to be a child
that had his own room.
So let's start there.
The privileges, so you know whatI mean?
It is so great.
So tell me about your earlydays.
Where are you from?
Tell me how he came to know Ben.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, so Ben is a.
Haitian kid.
Born and raised in Northern NewJersey.
Um, yeah, super conservative,super Caribbean Christian
family.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Whoa, whoa.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah.
So, uh.
Haiti.
Well, in Creole, we like tocall, we, we have this thing
called le.
It's basically you're either athome, you're at church, or
you're at school.
So if I wasn't at home, I was atchurch, or I was at school.
Um, and that's really what likedefined my, my childhood.
Speaker (01:50):
Nice.
So would you say you were one ofthose kids that was in church
all weekend or like, you know,you went to school and Wednesday
every day of the week.
Every day of the week,
Speaker 2 (01:58):
yes.
Six outta seven days of theweek, if not seven.
Yeah.
Nice.
Yeah.
Speaker (02:02):
So would you be cons, so would you consider yourself a
pk?
Because I always feel likeparents that are heavily in the
church.
You don't necessarily have to bethe pastor to have like the PK
treatment.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
That's, that's good.
You know, the deep
Speaker (02:14):
end and the, the head of the, the choir, you know,
everyone has that PK experience.
So would you say that you're apk?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Definitely.
Nice.
'cause my, um, the pastor of mychildhood church was my uncle.
So like No.
Speaker (02:27):
So you technically we were always together.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Right, right, right.
We're always together, so,
Speaker (02:31):
yes.
That is nice.
So what would you say in thoseearly days, right, I feel like
as children,'cause I too, so I,let me first say I too was I, I
call it weekend, all weekend.
We couldn't do during the week.
Yeah.
So even so I came to New Yorkwhen I was four years old.
Okay.
Right.
I originally was born inJamaica.
My mom came here before when wewere really young and then
(02:52):
brought my brother and I when wewere four and decided to migrate
here.
Um, but my father is one of 11.
Very big family.
My mother's the oldest of eight,so it was very clear from there
on that, you know, our cultureand who we are is.
And where we come from is partof who we are.
Be.
So it was every summer back inJamaica.
Yeah.
Listen, if school enters in byFriday, you go, I'm on here in
(03:17):
Jamaica.
Uh, people have look up Freezabeing at six 30.
Yes.
Old.
Like it's free.
So we was one of those kidsthat, you know, traveled alone.
So we went the steward list thewhole time.
So every single summer we wereback in Chick and I actually
started high school in Jamaicaas well.
(03:37):
Yes, because my, but wholestory, but academics is a big
deal and I started high schoolin Jamaica, so I'm very close
to, I always say not my cultureis who I am.
Yeah, yeah.
Really is who I am.
So.
I love that you said that sixdays out of the week you was in
church.
'cause I, I didn't get six daysoutta the week, but my mother's
(03:57):
side of the family is BaptistChristian.
Okay.
My father's seven Day Adventist.
Ooh.
So when I say I went to churchall weekend,
Speaker 3 (04:06):
I
Speaker (04:06):
get it.
I went to church all weekend.
So from.
Friday night when I was with mymaternal grandpa, and I'm a
grandmother baby.
My grandmother's really nurturedand I always say I would not be
who I am.
Yeah.
Am funny enough, Booker name,start with L uh oh.
Sister Laura and, and GTE Carly.
(04:28):
So.
Friday nights I would be with mypaternal grandmother.
You know it's Seven DayAdventist as the Ong Friday I
worship time.
Time, yeah.
It's worship time, TV off, nobooks, no nothing.
It's worship time.
Then we went to church onSaturday, come back.
You know, I have a look atSaturday.
Lunch.
Yeah.
After church.
Big lunch.
(04:48):
Yeah.
Ate it on a minute and then Icame out for a little bit and
then my uncle would come get mebreakfast after, go to church
with my maternal grandma comeSunday morning.
Yes.
So it was church all weekend.
So I love that.
I love that.
So would you say, although youguys had three, I love that,
that saying, say it again?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
School, church, la, home.
Speaker (05:16):
Nice.
I love that.
Little try.
That's cool.
Trifecta.
So of the three, where did youmost resonate with home?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I think church is where I spent, I think, most of
my time.
Um, and I think because.
It's where I saw my friends.
It's where I hung out the mostwith people that I interface
with.
So yeah, definitely church.
Speaker (05:37):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Yeah.
Speaker (05:38):
So how having the definition of home changed,
right.
I think being part of what theysay, the, the spirit, like the,
the churchy world and thesecular world, or how, you know
what I mean?
I think we grow up, we startgoing to school, we start to
see, you know, people that wereraised with different value
systems and things like that.
And I always say it's notbetter.
It's different.
You know what I mean?
Because to me.
(06:01):
God calls us in very uniqueways.
And just because I know God,because I had the benefit of
being raised in a household thatwas very intentional about it,
doesn't mean that people thatdidn't have that same level of
intentionality don't know Godeither.
You know what I mean?
So I.
Where would you say, like yousaid, church was mostly home.
Tell me about that home in yourearly stages from being a young
(06:24):
boy to middle school, to highschool, and then an adult.
Like I'm sure that environmentchanged in many ways.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Definitely, definitely.
Yeah.
Like I said before, I grew up ina very, very conservative
Caribbean Christian family.
Um, and so you can, you can onlyimagine like what that looked
like.
Yeah.
Um, but yeah, we were superBaptist, super conservative.
Um, but I saw my, my uncle andhis siblings like.
Serve and support other peoplethrough church.
(06:50):
And I learned hospitality.
Um, I learned, I, I observedthat, but I also like learned it
myself.
So like that's, that was home tome.
Home was like hosting peoplehome, was serving others home
was, you know, doing the Lord'swork.
Um, and I think I've, I stillcherish that to this day.
Um, I think it'll, it evolvedover time, though, like I said,
(07:11):
when I was a kid, like that'swhat I saw.
That's what I lived.
Um, but I think when I turnedlike 17, 18, um, I started to
realize that I didn't agree witheverything that was done in the
church.
Right.
I didn't necessarily, or evenbefore that, like, there was a
lot of dissonance that Iexperienced.
Quite honestly.
I was like 11, 12, 13, and therewas some things that I learned
(07:33):
about my childhood that I waslike, wait, what is that about?
And like, what is this?
And who is that?
And like, what do you mean?
And that doesn't, that's not inalignment with what we say we
practice, right?
So that dissonance is what I waslike, Hmm.
I don't think church is where Ifeel most at home.
I'm gonna feel more at home bymyself.
So I started to retreat even atlike 13, 14 to my room and
(07:55):
that's where I found the mostsolitude and sanctuary.
Um, so yeah, like I kind ofstayed to myself for a long
time.
Speaker (08:05):
Nice.
Would you say that you are aloner?
Definitely.
Oh, nice.
And that's a, that's aninteresting take that you went
from being like part of such abig community in the church and
then you were retreated intobeing alone.
And the, the two things I wannatouch on with that, but before
we touch on that, I wanna talkto you about some of those
limitations and restrictionsand, and trying to find the best
(08:29):
word to use when it comes tochurch culture.
Right.
I think church culture can beexact.
That heavy size says a lot.
Um, church culture to me assomeone who, like I said, I had
the best of both worlds, right?
I was in church all weekend andboth my grandmother serves.
My grandfather served.
Like my mother is now deep inchurch like I have.
(08:49):
I understand the organization ofchurch, I understand the
community of church, but I alsounderstand the complexity of
people, right?
I, I know that they're not allone and the same.
And sometimes people use churchto, to hide and mask.
(09:10):
Right.
Um, it's easy to hide behindsomething.
Right.
But I always say, God, don'tdwell and mess.
So it's very clear to me whenit's not one thing than the
other.
But how, how was thelimitations, I'm just gonna use
that word of church.
How did that play a part onyour.
Mental and emotional wellbeingbecause I, I personally, it made
(09:32):
me sharper.
I can speak for myself.
It made me a lot sharper aboutnot who people said they were,
but how they showed up.
And, and it in a way taught mehow to navigate humans, right?
Because you can, you can meanwell, but we are all human.
You know what I mean?
You can mean well, and I thinkbeing a part.
(09:55):
Of the kingdom of God.
Right.
And the church gives us thisfalse sense of authority and
qualification that I think hepeople often use based on their
objective.
Yes.
So talk to me about some ofthose limitations.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yeah.
So first I'll say that thechurch has been like, I'm so
grateful for my experience, justlike you are, you know, growing
up in the church, I wouldn't bewhere I am without it.
That foundation is super, superimportant.
Um, I do think though, you know,being a PK and, and, and seeing
behind the veil of things, um,there are some, there were some
challenges.
(10:33):
There were some things that Isaw that I, um, that I asked
about, um, questions that I hadthat weren't answered.
And I think.
As a 11, 12, 13-year-old kid,you don't have the skills that
you need
Speaker (10:46):
all the verbiage.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Right, right.
To really articulate yourself orto, to question or to, I think
reason with a bit more, um,patience.
And I think those challenges,uh, when those questions weren't
answered, or quite honestly,people didn't have the skills or
didn't have the languagethemselves, the people that
we're submitting ourselves to.
(11:08):
Right.
Um, be family.
They're still just human.
Right, right.
Right.
They didn't have the language,you know?
So I think that was a hugelimitation.
Like if I didn't feel safe atchurch where like we're talking
about meeting God and likesubmitting and surrendering
ourselves.
Right?
But like the pastor who'sleading our church is also
(11:29):
family, right?
Who I still don't feel safeenough to talk to or safe enough
to share with.
There's, there's a, there's adichotomy.
Addition is there, so yeah.
And
Speaker (11:37):
there is, and there's a limitation and a, a a, an aspect
of safety that for me, I alwayssay when it comes, especially
for my kids, right?
When it comes to church or anyenvironment, I like to keep it
simple because I know as humanbeings, we don't all have the
same level of.
Emotional intelligence.
(11:57):
Intelligence in general orverbiage, right?
So communication skills.
So I always say I just wanna becomfortable.
If there is comfort here, thenit's, it's something that I can
start to proceed in.
But same thing for my kids.
'cause they go to church now.
We, we changed church homes afew times just'cause I like, I
(12:18):
like to have church homes,floral.
I don't like to have a singularchurch home.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
When did that become a thing for you?
Um,
Speaker (12:27):
when, so in Jamaica I had church homes, staples.
Right.
And when we came here to NewYork, my mother had various
church homes for periods oftime.
So when I was in elementaryschool, it was these two church.
And then we went from thischurch and then there's another
church.
And then we just always,'causein Brooklyn, I don't.
Being a child, like you said, Inever knew the why or how behind
(12:49):
why we're going to this churchversus that church.
But I made a friend and I neverknew the whys behind the
transitions, but I did see thedifferences.
You know, I saw the differencesin how people communicated with
each other, how to engage withmy mom, how to engage with my
brothers and I, mother andsister and I.
I saw the differences and Inoticed for myself that once
(13:13):
there was a sense offamiliarity.
Comfort Uhhuh.
I see.
You see where I'm going Thatmore of who they really are
started to unravel, and I'm veryintentional about purpose.
Like if I'm gonna spend my timedoing anything, I have a
tangible outcome from it.
(13:34):
So when I go to church, I'mgoing for fellowship and I'm
going to be close to God.
Let's
Speaker 6 (13:38):
go.
Speaker (13:38):
Those are my two tangible outcomes.
Honestly, nothing else.
Nothing else.
What made you
Speaker 3 (13:49):
sigh on those?
Speaker 2 (13:50):
It's so, it's so real and so honest.
I think of, well, I think thatthe needs that we have, you
know, when I'm talking aboutfellowship at church are so,
they, they, they vary, right?
They're not all the same.
Um, but I think that thisgeneration, um, of church
leaders is probably ill-equippedto really hear that truth,
(14:11):
right?
And, and minister to those needseffectively.
I think.
At least it's been myexperience.
Yeah.
Um, it's like our Sundayexperience should be this, you
should be coming for this onething.
If not, you know, like, you'renot, you don't belong.
Yeah.
Almost, you know?
Um, so yeah.
Thank you for sharing that.
Yeah,
Speaker (14:31):
thank you.
Because, and also in thatfamiliarity, I noticed that
their requirements becamechurch.
You have to have on a skirt, youhave to wear this, you have to
do this, you have to come atthis time, you have to park this
way.
So that's why I like homes.
I ha I like to hop.
I wanna be a guest at all times.
You know what's so funny whenyou said like your pastor right
(14:52):
now, if I'm honest, my primarypastor is steep Steven Ford,
Nick.
I love him so much.
Yeah,
Speaker 2 (14:59):
I get it.
Speaker (15:00):
I love him so much.
This is amazing.
I.
Hear his word more frequentlythan anyone else.
My algorithm on my YouTube giveme his 15 minute word every
single day, and it is part ofmy, every single day.
I'm just like, Stephen, for Nickin the morning after my, oh, my
personal devotion.
I'm like, Stephen Fork is, I getdressed because I think he gets
(15:23):
it.
I think he gets, and again, I'venever stepped foot in his
church.
I've never stepped foot in hischurch.
I've never gone to, I think he'sin the Carolinas, in South
Carolina.
Yeah, North Carolina.
Never been there.
But I understand, I love that hegets, he gets it in a sense
where people are looking to stayclose to God.
(15:46):
People are looking for words tokeep them in alignment and all
the rest is just the rest.
All the rest is just the rest.
And I think in church home,sometimes the rest becomes the
church.
Yeah,
Speaker 7 (16:01):
yeah.
Speaker (16:02):
But no, I love this.
I love what we're talking aboutand I want us to go back into
church home and then transitionto like how church home wasn't
safe.
Then you entered into your roomand then we're gonna talk about
your career aspirations, likewho do you like, who was Finn
and how did that transition?
I.
Like that full circle moment.
(16:23):
You see what I'm saying?
I'm trying to bring it allaround.
I love that we're talking abouthome and the variations of
church home.
Same.
This is,
Speaker 7 (16:29):
home was the word.
Speaker (16:31):
Home was the word because I think people are
always searching for somewhere.
For me, especially, I always sayearly, my early years of
childhood was filled withdiversity, chaos.
That's what I call it.
That's what it was.
And what I've come to learn,especially in the Caribbean
community, chaos is taughtfrequency.
(16:52):
So
Speaker 2 (16:54):
it's stuffy the norm.
Yes, yes.
Speaker (16:55):
Like it's like a, it's like a, it's like a, the
frequency you feel mostcomfortable mm-hmm.
In a certain generation.
Yeah.
Chaos is, and even as a youngchild, it made me uncomfortable
and that's why
Speaker 2 (17:10):
I withdrew.
Like, I would sense that I wouldlike, Hmm, this is too much.
I'm withdrawing.
You know, like, y'all figure itout.
You know, so
Speaker (17:18):
you see, that's good.
Whereas, see, I'm the oldestgirl, so you already know
Speaker 2 (17:25):
the, the, you carried away.
Speaker (17:26):
Exactly.
I'm the oldest girl and, and,and it's four of us.
My mother had four kids.
My father, she had me, my olderbrother, her first husband,
second husband is my littlebrother, my little sister.
And for.
A large portion of my life as achild, I always felt like the
adulting room.
And it was so taxing as a kid,like to always be the one to be
(17:53):
like, okay, now can we move on?
Can we stop this?
Can we eat?
Can we just not do this anymore?
You know what I mean?
So.
Stability and security and, and,and things like that.
When you say home really hitshard for me'cause I always feel
(18:16):
like I lived on my own since Iwas 17 years old.
I, I needed peace very early on.
I found that like peace isnecessary for me to exist.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Wow.
What made you choose your, yourpeace at 17?
Speaker (18:32):
I didn't, it wasn't chosen for me.
It was a situation where Ibasically.
So I've always been really goodat school, kind of take you
back.
I've always been really good atschool, so I've always had like
straight A's always kind ofkilling it.
And to the older I got my househome, life got more chaotic to
be honest.
And I, I was responsible for thewellbeing.
My little brothers and my littlesisters from the moment they
(18:53):
woke up to the moment they wentto bed, picked them up, dropped
them off homework.
And I was responsible for that.
Um, and as obviously I got olderand I'm trying to graduate high
school, I needed money and thatwasn't.
You know, there wasn't anallowance.
That's what I joke with my kidsnow.
It wasn't an allowance.
So I got a job.
My first job I got, it was 15.
I was a babysitter.
(19:14):
So from that I just kept gettingjobs and working and obviously
that makes little time me takecare of my, my brothers and
sisters.
So that created a lot ofconflict, lot of contention and.
Throughout the years, I justkept picking me.
I'm like, I need money.
I need to be able to do so thatit was like a slow burn.
(19:36):
And then because I started, Istarted a job in the city out
here, so I had to start takingthe bus really late and I used
to show up to my first periodclass and basically go to sleep.
I still needed to wake up at5:00 AM to get my little brother
and sister out.
So it's not like sleeping in wasnot a thing, you know what I
mean?
So I got them up and got themout, but as soon as I hit first
(19:57):
period, I was not, I wassleeping.
So, and as a result, I failed myfirst period class and my
counselors and everyone waslike, basically, this isn't,
this is not you.
What is happening?
And you know, in Caribbeanculture, as you know, there's a
lot of pride.
(20:17):
These heavy size bed is killingme.
These deep rats that you keeptaking is killing me.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Those are like bedrocks of our community, you
know?
Speaker (20:26):
Yeah.
The pillars to me that hold upnonsense.
The pillars that hold upnonsense.
So obviously due to pride, Ididn't share all what was going
on and that I'm working and thenrunning here, I just was like.
I have a lot going on.
And they were, and then youknow, some people bought it and
other people who, I say thatwhen I went to school there was
(20:49):
like real like, you know, likethe real mamas of school, like
my counselors and stuff waslike, no, Ika, we're not taking
that.
You know this work.
So you know what?
Now you gotta go to nightschool.
You either go to night school oryou don't graduate in high
school.
In high school.
Really?
You either go to night school oryou do not graduate.
That hit me like a ton ofbreaks, not me.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Maybe I know the books, I know the work.
You're not about to her, right?
She right and left back.
What?
That's that prize.
Super senior.
Right?
Right.
Cool.
Right.
So I was like, oh hell, hell no.
Speaker (21:25):
I'm going to night
Speaker 3 (21:25):
school
Speaker 5 (21:26):
girl.
Speaker (21:27):
So going back to me already limiting my availability
to be the primary caregivers tomy sisters, I had to limit it
more.
And that night, that night wasthe night things exploded.
When I had to go to night schoolwhen I was just like both his
parents was in the house and Isaid, he's down the street.
I have to go two buses away tonight school.
(21:51):
I will not pick him up.
You have to get up.
Thank get him.
Highly bad word.
Be cussing.
The cussing.
The cussing.
If you dare not pick him up.
You know how Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
You know a Caribbean lover, a threat.
Listen, if you not pick him up,nobody come back
Speaker (22:13):
in here.
And in my mind, again, I'm notbeing a super secret.
So I went to night school.
It was the longest ride backhome ever.
The two bus rides.
So, funny enough, that night Iactually got a ride from one of
my friend's, friends from nightschool.
'cause again, it was, I lived inFlatbush.
(22:35):
It was in Canarsie.
So it was literally like twobuses away.
And I remember taking like ahuge deep breath before I went
back in the house.
Woo.
I'm getting chills.
It makes me, yeah.
That's how traumatic it was.
And long story short,'cause Idon't even wanna go into details
and get emotional.
It, it, it became take your shitand get out my house.
(22:56):
Take your shit and get outta myhouse.
'cause I went to night school,it was difficult.
It wasn't like, again, that homewas comfortable, safe, stable.
It wasn't the those things, butit was still a home that I knew,
you know?
(23:17):
And at the time it was Wow.
And I remember I, it's funny, I.
I remember saying that when Ibecome Oprah, when I hate
getting emotional about that,but when God's purpose of my
life shows up and shine, right.
(23:38):
Don't tell anybody that you werepart of that.
And it's the reality of whathappened, and that's how I ended
up being 17, living on my own.
So when you say home, it meansso many different things to so
(23:59):
many different people.
'cause some of us don't comefrom the traditional home.
Thanks, Steve.
You're the best.
You know, and sometimes Ialways, that's why I'm such a
happy nerd.
(24:20):
I say only knowledge and thepursuit of learning teaches you
that your environment is not theonly environment that the home,
you know, is not the only homeyou can create.
So you tell me about how,although you had right, a stable
(24:42):
home and you had a stablechurch, you felt those
limitations and then youwithdraw.
Gimme more insight into that.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Yeah.
So I've never publicly sharedthis story, so, um, I'm gonna do
so now.
When I was, I must have beennine or 10.
I was 10 or 11.
I was going, um, coming backhome from church.
(25:12):
Um, I was getting a ride from adeaconess at my church.
And we got in the car.
Me and my older sister weregetting in the car and she was
like, Hey, did you, did you sayhi to your, your, your, your
sister?
I was like, no, what are youtalking about?
And she was like, yeah, that's,that's your brother sister.
I was like, what?
(25:32):
What do you mean?
She's like, your brother, yourbrother Joshua.
That's, that's his sister.
I was like, I don't know whoyou're talking about.
And she was like, Ben, stopplaying, like respect me.
Like go say hi.
I was like, I don't know whoyou're talking about.
Like, you really don't know.
I said, I have no idea whatyou're talking about.
She's like, oh my God.
Like, please don't say that.
(25:55):
I told you.
And that's how I found out thatmy father had another child.
Um, and like I went home, keptit to myself, um, because at the
time the Deaconess was rentingfrom my father.
So she was like super worriedthat if news broke out, that she
(26:18):
was the one that told us, youknow?
And so I felt the need toprotect her, um, for sure.
And so at, at 10 or 11, like, Idon't know what to do with that
tension.
Like I have no business knowing,holding, knowing that, right?
Knowing
Speaker (26:34):
or holding that in that space.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
So I just kept it to myself, um, for a few weeks and
then I, I asked my mom.
She didn't have the answers.
Um, I asked my dad, who kind ofdodged the question, um, instead
of answering directly, I thinkhe was like, who told you?
(26:57):
What do you know?
Like, trying to
Speaker (26:59):
figure out, figure out like what I know where the
curiosity, yeah, where thecuriosity is coming from.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
And I was like, you know what?
I'm just gonna withdraw like it.
This is too much.
I'm just gonna withdraw.
So that's kind of where itstarted.
Um.
As I grew and as I matured, Irealized like all the things
that, like, not all the things,but there were things that we
taught in church.
What I will say is that Ilearned to lie at home.
Like that is where I think welearned to lie.
(27:25):
Um, I
Speaker 8 (27:27):
ity very truth.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
I learned to lie at home.
I saw how instead of speakingthe truth or sharing the truth,
people were defending my fatheror like not sharing the truth.
Cleaning, not just cleaning itup but masculine.
Like literally hiding it, youknow?
So I was like, you know what,this is really interesting.
So as I like, as I lived mylife, when I look back on my
(27:52):
life, I realize like that's whenI started to learn to lie.
That's what I learned withHarlem.
Speaker (27:56):
How that's how her to lie.
I think that is a power andfigure that I learned to lie at
home.
And I, what's interesting,especially in the Caribbean
community, I don't think we seeit that way.
Of the, yeah, it's like, it'snot lying.
It's holding legacy.
Speaker 9 (28:12):
It's protect protection.
Yep.
Speaker (28:15):
That his, first of all, I'm sorry, you had to hold
something so heavy as a child.
You know what I mean?
That's, that is heavy andcomplex because then you have to
question everything.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Everything.
Well, if you could lie to meabout a brother that I might be
having, what do you like?
What am I
Speaker 5 (28:33):
child?
You know
Speaker 2 (28:35):
what else is not true?
So I think at 10 or 11 I startspiraling.
I question everything.
Well, if Nevada's not sure, thenlike, or this could be true,
then what else could you know?
So that meant to gymnasticsYeah.
Is
Speaker 9 (28:49):
too much for here, you know?
So
Speaker (28:52):
And how did that change whole?
So now both holes start lookingdifferent, right?
Absolutely.
Both church boom and your actualhome, you was like, yeah.
How did, how did that now changethe.
The frequency home.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah.
So I think that shaped my entireadolescent experience, like that
interaction, that quest fortruth.
Um, and being told like, yeah,no, you're not ready to know.
Or like, there's too much you,you know, I don't wanna tell
you.
Like, that shaped everythingabout the way that I saw church,
the way that I saw home, the waythat I saw safety.
Um, I no longer felt safe athome, like at my childhood home.
(29:31):
Um, and I also felt like.
I think that set me on a questfor like, for God too, in a
different way.
Um, and I learned 15, 16, 17 or18 there was more than to God
than just this Haitian Baptistdenomination that I was, you
know, accustomed to grew up in.
Um, and I wanted to explorethat.
(29:52):
I wanted to get to know God andin all the ways that God existed
or showed up, not just the waythat I was taught I should
conform to.
So
Speaker (30:00):
that's interesting.
How did that.
How did that add ripples to youraspirations?
Right?
So tell me more about when youpursued high school Hope Guys
school your career.
How did that add a, because Ialways say that in the Caribbean
culture church, we don'tunderstand how secrets add A to
(30:21):
your people charity, and thenpeople of color.
There's enough s in the world.
Yeah, yeah.
But then we have this.
Extra layer.
Yeah, extra task of a ripple.
So how did that ripple, likeimpact your high school,
college, your career now?
Speaker 2 (30:38):
So I think as a, as a pk, I, well going back a little
bit, my father was gonna say mymoms works as well.
Uh, a big family.
Mama mother was the firstsenator, the oldest sister, oh,
uh, editor her to the US And soshe was always supporter running
(30:59):
back home.
Uh, so I kind of think I learnednot just
Speaker 7 (31:05):
to love, but to save
Speaker 5 (31:07):
people
Speaker 7 (31:07):
very, very early on.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Uh, loving people is burned, serve people is burned.
Say you can't do.
So I think that Savior Plex Jamdrop.
Yeah, you, that savior complexled me, uh, spice social work.
Initially, um, I wanted to be acounselor.
I wanted to like, you know, helppeople navigate the terrains
that I was navigating.
(31:31):
Um, but I still realized like Ididn't wanna do that anymore.
Like, I realized I didn't feellike that was what God had
called me to do.
I felt like I was doing thatbecause it was.
What people wanted for me, butnot necessarily what I
Speaker 6 (31:47):
wanted for me.
Speaker (32:03):
Navigate you into the ways that they wanna go.
Yeah.
So would you say that likesocial, it's funny, I wanted to
be a social worker in highschool, right?
Yeah, I did.
And I tell a story now about, soin, during.
When I went school, they spark,um, where it would allow kids
that, you know, wasn't having agood day.
(32:23):
Like it was basically like withcouches and two couch.
Heard about that program.
Yes.
Spark was very important to neHigh School.
It was very, um, Ms.
McLean and oh bad.
I hate that Upper PanIN, but thetwo counselors in there were
pivotal to my wellbeing duringhigh school and I just knew that
(32:43):
that rule was safe space.
I could go and breathe and youknow, just society.
And I told her, uh, I wanna be asocial, a social worker.
I wanna help people.
I think there's a lot of peoplegoing things that they were or
even cheat or circumstances, oh,I'm gonna help them now.
(33:04):
You ain't that same thing I'llnever forget.
Right At Samuel j Tilden HighSchool, she had a F friend who
was a social worker.
Who worked in the New YorkCity's child, C-P-S-C-P-S.
Is it CPS?
Is that what was calling it?
CPS that worked in CPS?
(33:25):
And she said to me, IZ you sopray.
She was like, all that you gothrough, you just sober.
Just, I never forget, she justkept saying, you're super.
Amen.
I want you to know what you'reaspiring to, and I don't wanna
tell you what to do and what notto do.
So she's like, I'm gonna have myfriend come to school.
Keep in mind her McDonald.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
So that alone, that alone, I'm like, get to school
McDonalds.
Like I
Speaker (33:52):
was tight.
So she came.
So I hate that I forgot hername, but I remember the
conversation we had and she toldme about her dates.
Because that's what I'm, I'vealways been a questioner and I
want insight.
I, I want your sir,
Speaker 8 (34:06):
your bush.
Speaker (34:06):
You know, and I will never forget, she told me about
the days and it just,
Speaker 8 (34:12):
you
Speaker (34:14):
felt so hagy.
And she's like, we love peoplelike you, but you don't know how
to shut it off.
You can.
She looked me in my pupils andtold me it kill me.
She's like, I just met you and Ijust, you get me so judgey.
(34:36):
I'll never forget that shelooked me when I wasn't told me
it could kill you.
I left McDonald's going,
Speaker 3 (34:43):
I would never be a goddamn social worker.
I left McDonald's.
Like, guess not.
Guess
Speaker (34:51):
not just because her experiences,'cause she loved her
talk.
So you know when somebody istelling you something weak.
Speaker 5 (34:58):
Yeah.
Speaker (34:59):
All the fees and I'm receiving it.
Like, so that's, I love thatparallel that we have.
So you wanted, so that was youraspiration in high school or
college?
Or high school.
So what happened post highschool?
Speaker 7 (35:15):
Post high school?
I started, um.
Studying at CK University, I gota full ride.
Nice.
Say,
Speaker 3 (35:21):
come on, don't I hate what I hate.
I hate What I hate, and I'm notgonna let you do this on this
podcast, is I hate, especiallywhen I see black men, don't try,
don't play small now.
I miss it.
Okay.
Not, I went to Rutgers on a fullride scholarship.
Excuse me, intellect.
Excuse me, Ben.
(35:42):
Don't, don't play small hair.
Tell, come on.
What's gonna happen every timeyou come here, you gonna get
your flowers, okay?
You listen.
You went to Rutgers on a full
Speaker (35:52):
ride.
The scholarship, tell us aboutit.
Speaker 7 (35:55):
So I, so I started, go ahead with a full ride.
Um,
Speaker 3 (35:59):
but no, I, no, no, no.
Don't do that.
'cause you're human.
Me.
Yeah.
You still achieve that.
I did.
That is an achieve.
That's none of the achievementthat just giving out in our
community.
You just go on ruck on, come on,you did
Speaker 8 (36:13):
that.
Listen.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
You feel like,
Speaker 7 (36:18):
but three semesters when I realized, I don't know if
school is for me
Speaker 2 (36:23):
on, I don't know if school is for me right now.
I.
I just need some more time toprocess.
Uh, immature.
Uh, so I started, uh, workingfor Smashburger and a, it's a,
it's a bird or franchise.
Yeah.
So I, they opened up theirflagship store for their, first
(36:45):
of all, miso in, out there, butnot town.
So I started working as a
Speaker 7 (36:49):
dishwasher and then be six months, got months to,
uh.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Shift managers they call.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
Okay.
So not six months becoming theboss.
I just, first of all, what wenot gonna let you do is jump
from, I got full ride at Ruckus.
I was like, I'm not sure if thebooks is
Speaker (37:05):
for me.
Let me go wash dishes.
Right?
Like, but I feel like thathumility and I talked about it
was so made different podcastbecause in this, in society, we
don't wanna look like we'retrying.
Yeah.
We don't wanna look like we'refailing.
We don't wanna look like, wewanna look like we got it
together.
Sure.
For sure.
Everybody's ready to go on thenext trip.
(37:26):
Sure.
And do like, and I think it'simportant to high life, you got
a full ride to RutgersUniversity, did three good
semesters, and was like, I don'tthink I'm, this is me.
And you trusted yourself.
Yeah.
'cause the holy we have talkedabout is this.
You trusted yourself to go, I'mgonna go wash dishes.
(37:47):
Yeah.
A smashburger.
Yeah.
Tell me about that.
I know your parents was like, Iwonder you.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Yeah.
My, my dad was not having it.
So my dad, um, interestinglyenough, um, before I wanted to
be a social worker, I wanted tobe a chef.
Because my dad, when he camefrom Haiti, he was a, a chef at
a, uh, or sous chef at a, acountry club.
He used to always tell us heused to make$3 and 23 cents an
hour when he first came to theus, uh, to help us understand
(38:17):
how far he's come, right?
Um, so in some ways, some shape,some form, like that spirit of
hospitality and hosting peopleand cooking and all that always
has been a part of my life.
Um, and that's what I wanted topursue.
And when I realized like.
Dad said no.
I was like, okay, well, I can dosocial work and I can figure
that out, and I can still helppeople in this way.
(38:37):
I just didn't feel like that wasthe thing.
So I was like, I'd rather washdishes than do anything else.
I, I literally got a job atSmashburger.
Within six months I got promotedand then within two months I was
a regional store manager, openedup seven stores with them.
I was doing the thing that I waspassionate about, right.
I was hosting, which ishospitality or
Speaker 5 (38:55):
hosting,
Speaker 2 (38:56):
because that was like the spirit of home for me.
The spirit of home is likehospitality serving people,
right.
Hosting all of that is still,it's
Speaker (39:04):
also, and it's also following that internal
navigator.
Yeah.
Right.
Because some people would lookat it and be like, you had all
these
Speaker 3 (39:10):
other opportunities,
Speaker (39:12):
but you
Speaker 3 (39:13):
only, you know what home feels like?
Tell me about that.
So we opening up a ton of smashburgers under your leadership.
Yeah.
Love that.
And what, what, what's next?
Speaker 2 (39:23):
Yeah, what's next is I realized like I, I think I
still, I think I still need somemore formal education.
I think I'm ready to go backnow.
So I went back, I got my degree,um, this time in psychology.
'cause I think being in thetrenches with people and under,
and hearing different stories, Ithink.
Being at Smashburger allowed methe opportunity not to just work
in the back, but also work thefloor and listen to people's
(39:46):
stories and understand wherethey're navigating.
And that really made me curiousabout studying psychology,
understanding not just the mind,but people's experiences.
So I started studyingpsychology.
I got my degree in 2017.
Fast forward, congrat.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
And have been super passionate.
Always passionate about like menin particular, men's mental
(40:08):
health and their wellness.
Um, and have been working inspaces that prioritize community
and and wellness.
So.
Speaker (40:15):
Nice.
Yeah.
Tell me more about these spaces.
Will you do that?
I just wanna highlight thatthere is no job too small.
No.
Do you understand what I mean?
Yeah.
Because both you making thedecision, and this is, this is a
path that feels like home daily,right?
You not only get to stretch themuscle's, hospitality and
(40:36):
creating a hole in thesefranchisees.
For your employees, for theguests that bur in there, but
also saying to yourself that I,I wanna maximize this.
I'm also gonna go to school so Ican have a formal education as
well.
You know what I mean?
I feel like as a, in oursociety, we don't see things as
holistically as we need to.
'cause some people will becoming in and be like, oh,
(40:57):
where's the managers?
And you like, yeah, there's acomplaint here, but there's
something here.
You know what I mean?
And they don't expect that.
They don't expect that from ourcommunity.
They don't expect that from ourblack men.
And I, I love that you're like aSwiss army there.
I love that.
So tell me about these spacesthat you enter and you bring
(41:19):
this level of expertise.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Yeah.
So when I first graduatedcollege, uh, my first.
Formal job that I got, uh, wasan offered to be a youth
counselor in the city ofChicago.
And, uh, working with Black,brown, black and Brown boys,
ages 16 to 24, like justcreating space for them to like,
share their experiences.
Um, a lot of these brothers are,are kids that had seen their
(41:41):
homes get shot and murdered andplain sight folks that were
living through complex traumaand, and navigating that.
And so just creating spaceswhere they could like, be honest
about it.
Firing community.
That was what I was called to,uh,
Speaker 3 (41:56):
how was it take picking up from New
Speaker (41:59):
Jersey and going to Chicago?
It was
Speaker 2 (42:00):
exciting.
It was exciting.
I love It was so exciting.
Oh my gosh.
It was thrilling because Ialways felt like I was called to
more than just my community.
Um, but actually doing the workand being in the trenches and.
Doing the thing that I knew Iwas called to do.
Like doing purpose.
(42:21):
Yeah.
There's nothing like it.
Nice doing
Speaker 3 (42:24):
purpose.
Yeah.
Then
Speaker (42:25):
yes, doing purpose.
I don't think that, whoa, I justfeel like that isn't happy.
Yeah.
Because I think we always thinklike, what is my purpose?
And it's like people think it'sa statement versus an activity.
So Julie purpose wastransitional.
You, me, your, you mentionedyour
Speaker 2 (42:44):
pastor earlier, and I think my pastor in this season
is Dr.
Darius Daniels in one of thesermons that he, um, he preached
about a month or so ago.
He said, callings don't change,but roles do.
And I think for a while I wasmarried
Speaker 8 (42:58):
still.
What most,
Speaker 2 (43:00):
yeah, like my calling is to create spaces where black
men and black and brown menprimarily can heal.
Can come together, can connect,can convene, can be cared for,
like that's my calling.
Where I do that work, how thatshows up looks differently,
right?
So with black men in tech, I amthe head of community.
I lead membership where Ifacilitate space where black men
(43:22):
and brown and brown boys cancome together, can, can find
mentorship, can find community,but can also upskill, right?
Um, at church I serve andsupport local small groups that
are.
Again, creating that same space.
So like the calling is the same,but the role and responsibility
that I have is different.
So
Speaker (43:41):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Yeah,
Speaker (43:43):
I really, it's so crazy.
Thank you.
Like it, it brings me back tothis, this experience of
adversity, right?
In our younger years and overtime I have learned that God
states us for a reason.
(44:04):
Because I think when we think ofChristianity, we think of, you
keep thinking it's supposed tobe this pure ly experience and
that's why people and men likesto keep restrictions and
regulations and all the church.
But I feel like hearing thesestories make me feel that that
(44:26):
purity actually lives in thisthing.
It does, because then you wereen staked by that experience.
Just it opened up another eyefor you, not only to realize
your fault wasn't the holythought it was, but also you're
(44:46):
calling who secret.
Mm-hmm.
Because everywhere you've gone,you've created spaces and flows
for black men to assist.
And without that stain you, youwouldn't even realize that your
home is not the home theythought it was.
Oh my gosh.
That's so amazing.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
And I think what I learned along the journey was
that like I am home, likewherever I am, God is, and
wherever I am, like the spacethat I'm called to cultivate and
curate is.
It's never changing, like, yeah.
So
Speaker (45:20):
yes, I love that.
I love how not only yourpersonal experiences, but your
professional experiences hadthat, that similar feel of not
only creating a home, butpositioning you in the place
that you were the architect forthat.
See, you went in to wash dishes.
(45:41):
They said, no, I need you to bethe manager.
And they said, now I need you tobe a regional manager.
Do you say what I be thatsometimes, and that's why I joke
about this with Dave.
So I know I did joke about itall the time, that when it comes
to my podcast, I'm very overfeared.
I want everything to be great.
And I have found in the three,four years now the podcast that
(46:05):
every time I am all prepared,anxious about anything, I truly
see God cracking.
Yeah.
Like, like
Speaker 3 (46:12):
looking at me like truly cracking up because I'm a
dream.
And I dream big.
Speaker 5 (46:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
And I know he sit there and be like, oh, poor,
Speaker 5 (46:25):
poor little
Speaker 3 (46:25):
fool.
Speaker (46:29):
Poor little fool.
Don't know what I have
Speaker 9 (46:31):
thinks.
She knows.
Speaker (46:32):
She thinks she knows.
'cause we think we go and it,and I love this conversation
'cause it makes and bringseverything back to center to
focus on the public.
Focus.
And it's crazy that I tell mydaughters all the time, focus on
the details.
God knows the direction.
Speaker 4 (46:49):
Mm.
That's so deep
Speaker (46:53):
all the time because I have two daughters that are very
different and even my friends.
'cause you know, I feel likeeverybody's always trying, you
know, we're chasing the mochiand chasing happiness.
We're chasing boldness.
And I'm always like, you have noidea the direction, no air.
Focus on the details.
Anyone else details that?
What then what actually makesyou, what motivates your actions
(47:18):
most?
The details you need folks tocreate internally because we
can't want a partner or relationor even be a part of a community
unless you know your calls.
So tell me how you got to thepodcast.
Speaker 7 (47:39):
We not that just yet.
See?
Speaker (47:40):
Alright, listen, we ready for it.
How did you come to the podcast?
How did you say I need, I needthis conversation to be rolled.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
Yeah.
So in 2022, I ended a five yearlong relationship and.
I already talked about like notfeeling safe at home.
Um, it was a relationship thatwas a bit contentious towards
(48:11):
the end, and I knew that Ineeded to do some work to heal
and I wanted to heal inisolation alone by myself
without really having to answerto people like, where are you
at?
What you're doing?
Like, I just needed space andtime and I'll never forget.
Um, it was.
(48:32):
June 6th, 2022.
So like a couple months beforethat, um, I got a call from my
mentor and she was flying totown to see me.
And she, no, she wasn't flyingto town to see me.
Uh, she had just landed homewhere she was new, uh, Savannah,
(48:56):
Georgia, Dr.
Batis, she was, she just landed.
Called and was like, baby, you,you're on my heart.
I can feel you.
What's going on?
I just broke down.
I, I told her what I wasnavigating, what I was feeling,
and she said, why don't you justgo home?
Why don't you just go back home?
So, mind you, at the time I wasliving about 10 or 12 minutes
(49:18):
from my childhood home, um.
I was like, I, I don't wanna dothat.
And I don't, I don't think it's,I had all the reasons why.
Yeah.
All the after 30, going backhome, like, I don't wanna humble
myself.
I don't wanna do that.
I want, you know,
Speaker (49:32):
I wanna keep you full.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
What does it look like?
What do I look like going backhome?
Yeah.
And she was like, baby, justcall did Daddy and ask if you
can come back home.
And I did.
He said, yeah.
And so four months later I cameback home and, uh.
The podcast is like chronicallyin that journey, what it looked
like to humble myself and comeback home to heal one.
(49:57):
Um, but also what I discoveredalong the journey, what I, what
I, what I discovered about me,but what I discovered about
people, what I discovered about,um, life, about God, about
relationships.
Relationships too, right?
About grief, about, you know,giving myself permission to
grieve.
Um, not just someone who hadpassed, but.
Relationship.
You know,
Speaker (50:16):
I tell about that and yeah.
And giving yourself the grace togreed expectation, right?
I think as human beings, wesubconsciously build these
expectations, show the peoplearound us who we love, that
we're like, oh, this will happenand that will happen.
Then it doesn't, and it doesn'tnecessarily have to be in
(50:37):
totality, the ending or of arelationship, but we kind of see
those expectations start to joinup.
And taking space to, to grievethose expectations.
True.
True.
How was something that is,'causeI feel like in this society
there was
Speaker 3 (50:52):
challenges
Speaker (50:54):
because I feel like in this society where
statistically, there are morepeople living with their parents
in their thirties now than ever,
Speaker 2 (51:03):
ever before.
So that's what made me say.
I think I wanna have more peopleon the po I wanna talk about, I
was running into people that waslike, oh my God.
Like that's my experience.
So I, I did that too.
Or like then I've been hidingfor the last six months because
this is what I've been doing.
Like, and I wanted to createspace where we could talk a bit
(51:24):
more openly about we werenavigating as 30 something year
olds that were coming back home,whether after like.
A breakup or an illness or
Speaker 5 (51:32):
or being laid off
Speaker 9 (51:34):
economy is crazy.
Or like, you remember your dad,I, right?
Yeah.
You come back home or you got aprognosis, more support.
She'll like talk about that withpeople.
Has we interesting.
So
Speaker (51:47):
I love that.
Yeah.
I love because the pat back homeis not narrow.
Speaker 8 (51:53):
It's not, we,
Speaker (51:54):
it's not linear now.
And, but when we see statistics,right, when we see the headlines
and there were people in theirthirties with their parents than
them before, I think it, itbecomes a joke.
Yeah.
It becomes a joke.
It becomes if this point ofshame and contention where if
all things they want,
Speaker 8 (52:12):
it works.
Speaker (52:15):
And, and I think personally when I see those
statistics again, I know I, whyI hopefully No, I'm lying.
But, but also me creating Oh,yeah.
With my husband.
I know since I was 18, like youand it, it's, when I read that
(52:38):
it may be weak for mygeneration, it may be weak for
millennials.
Because we are coming to, in theplace, into our society, to the
space of consciousness about ourwellness and our wellbeing.
And if the numbers is our wordin technology about my data, if
(53:01):
the numbers are saying there isa large portion of turning home.
'cause a large portion was apatent.
Well
Speaker 8 (53:08):
sure.
Speaker (53:09):
And we are seeking out.
That level of wellness to bewhole, find a home eternally to
then thrive, right?
Like everything is not, thereare the win sharks.
It's more about the wellnessdevil.
So I love this.
Tell us more about the hype.
Yeah,
Speaker 7 (53:27):
so
Speaker 2 (53:30):
the podcast kind of got birthed from a few different
reasons and things, but there'sa piece of research that I read
a few years back.
Um.
The Surgeon General of theUnited States, the 19th and
21st.
I believe his name is Dr.
Marty.
Don't get me.
Don't.
Yes, we well put
Speaker 5 (53:48):
the real name.
Don't worry about that.
Go
Speaker 2 (53:50):
ahead.
He, he put out an articlestating that there's like a
global epidemic of loneliness.
Um, loneliness is reallyaffecting communities
nationwide.
Right.
I really felt called to create aspace where, you know, we could
talk about that loneliness thatwe're experiencing.
Right.
Um, and talk about what we'redoing to heal that.
(54:13):
Talk about what we're doing tocome together and like, and heal
and, and heal well.
Speaker (54:18):
So it's the podcast where you come together.
So you talk about how.
People who's made their way backhome.
Speaker 2 (54:23):
Yeah.
People have made their way backhome.
People that have, they'relooking for an answer looking
for a way back home.
Right.
It's not a one size fits all,but like
Speaker (54:32):
what a whole need for them.
Yeah.
Right.
So I feel like we define culturein so many different ways.
There's a whole withinourselves.
Yeah.
That we need to kind of firstthe foundation for sure.
As we navigate the world.
Then there's the homes that wecreate and the spaces that we
occupy.
Then there is the home that youbrought to the iron follow For
(54:52):
sure.
So talk to me about like thevariations in the conversations,
what you, what the audiencecould expect and they look your
podcast.
Speaker 2 (55:00):
Yeah.
I think the audience can expecta lot.
Uh, I have a lot of guests thatare, um, that have been with me
through my journey home.
So you'll, you'll hear a lot of,uh, different stories about me
and who I've been and you know,how people have related to me.
But you'll also hear, you know,spiritual leaders.
You'll hear coaches, you'll heartherapists talk about what home
means, what healing means, whatit looks like to different
(55:21):
people.
So there's something foreveryone.
Speaker (55:23):
Nice.
Thank you.
I love that.
And I love that it's not linear.
Yeah.
And I love that.
Like you said, you had acredited professional.
Yeah.
And you
Speaker 6 (55:31):
yourself for sure
Speaker (55:32):
studied
Speaker 6 (55:33):
psychology,
Speaker (55:34):
you know, because I think also in our society you
have a lot of talking and withlittle experience with a lot of.
I'm glad to see that you didn'tany ED to work, but you won't
free it be.
Speaker 2 (55:46):
Yeah.
Thank you.
Speaker (55:49):
This has been such an amazing competition.
I could go off a d.
Could be.
Thank you so much being on thepodcast.
Thank you.
If I let you go air on thepodcast, we believe that music
Speaker 8 (56:01):
is the Interate rapist as he's being.
Speaker (56:07):
Music helps us through our challenging times that
amplify our highlight.
So every week, my guess what?
Buy on the cake.
So tell me what's in the queue,what you, what's
Speaker 2 (56:18):
in the queue?
A lot of afrobeats.
Speaker 3 (56:21):
Hey, you hit the boo.
I
Speaker 2 (56:25):
hit the, but a lot of Afrobeats Uhhuh.
Um, there's a Christian groupcalled the Detroit Collective
that I've been robbing to.
Um, there's a particular songcalled What A Friend We Have
that I've been like.
Having a repeat?
Repeat, yeah.
Repeat.
Yeah, for sure we have.
Nice.
And then, um, what else?
(56:48):
I think that's it.
Yeah.
Speaker (56:49):
Nice.
I love those.
I love those two intersections.
Yeah.
Because of my podcast.
How do you be mind?
Yeah.
People always understand thereis a spiritual component to our
discussion.
Right?
But I'm also like we are humanbeing.
I don't know where in oursociety we came to this, this
disbelief that spirituality andChristianity means perfection.
(57:10):
Right.
I don't know where that camefrom, but we are human beings
and we are lead.
So
Speaker 3 (57:15):
I'm definitely listening to Kirk, Frankie,
right in a little spice hands,listen and not listen.
And I'm talking reggae spice.
Listen, I could do it both.
I'm listening.
A little maverick city.
Listen, I'm this little smokeyNelson, but I'm also.
Definitely listen to Jason.
Okay.
I'm definitely listening toJason like,
Speaker (57:37):
you know what I mean?
So thank you so much.
I love this conversation.
We continue to be on thisconversation because I'm gonna
beat me.
Your fuckings, you are talkingabout home.
But thank you so much.
This was such a treat.
Speaker 6 (57:48):
Thank you.
Hi everyone, and welcome back to this episode of
How Do You Divine?
And on this episode, we willexplore how we have come to the
define home and what does homelook like to you.
I like to welcome Ben.
Founder and host of the I camehome Te Heal podcast.
Ben, thank you for being here.
(00:20):
Thanks.
This is amazing and I'm so gladto have you here because when I
heard the name of your podcast,it just, it sinks deep.
It sinks really, really deep.
I came home to heal.
So tell me about early days ofhow you define what was home.
Before you came to heal.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Whoa.
Yeah.
So first, thank you for havingme again.
Uh, this was amazing.
Um, glad to be here.
Um, home before I did the work,looked like, um, my little
space, my room in, uh, Mount Clejersey, my childhood home.
Um, that was like my sanctuary.
(01:01):
That was like the place that Iwithdrew to when I.
Felt overwhelmed or excited ornervous or anxious like that was
home.
Speaker (01:09):
Oh yeah, your room.
Well, sounds like you'refortunate enough to be a child
that had his own room.
So let's start there.
The privileges, so you know whatI mean?
It is so great.
So tell me about your earlydays.
Where are you from?
Tell me how he came to know Ben.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, so Ben is a.
Haitian kid.
Born and raised in Northern NewJersey.
Um, yeah, super conservative,super Caribbean Christian
family.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Whoa, whoa.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah.
So, uh.
Haiti.
Well, in Creole, we like tocall, we, we have this thing
called le.
It's basically you're either athome, you're at church, or
you're at school.
So if I wasn't at home, I was atchurch, or I was at school.
Um, and that's really what likedefined my, my childhood.
Speaker (01:50):
Nice.
So would you say you were one ofthose kids that was in church
all weekend or like, you know,you went to school and Wednesday
every day of the week.
Every day of the week,
Speaker 2 (01:58):
yes.
Six outta seven days of theweek, if not seven.
Yeah.
Nice.
Yeah.
Speaker (02:02):
So would you be cons, so would you consider yourself a
pk?
Because I always feel likeparents that are heavily in the
church.
You don't necessarily have to bethe pastor to have like the PK
treatment.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
That's, that's good.
You know, the deep
Speaker (02:14):
end and the, the head of the, the choir, you know,
everyone has that PK experience.
So would you say that you're apk?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Definitely.
Nice.
'cause my, um, the pastor of mychildhood church was my uncle.
So like No.
Speaker (02:27):
So you technically we were always together.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Right, right, right.
We're always together, so,
Speaker (02:31):
yes.
That is nice.
So what would you say in thoseearly days, right, I feel like
as children,'cause I too, so I,let me first say I too was I, I
call it weekend, all weekend.
We couldn't do during the week.
Yeah.
So even so I came to New Yorkwhen I was four years old.
Okay.
Right.
I originally was born inJamaica.
My mom came here before when wewere really young and then
(02:52):
brought my brother and I when wewere four and decided to migrate
here.
Um, but my father is one of 11.
Very big family.
My mother's the oldest of eight,so it was very clear from there
on that, you know, our cultureand who we are is.
And where we come from is partof who we are.
Be.
So it was every summer back inJamaica.
Yeah.
Listen, if school enters in byFriday, you go, I'm on here in
(03:17):
Jamaica.
Uh, people have look up Freezabeing at six 30.
Yes.
Old.
Like it's free.
So we was one of those kidsthat, you know, traveled alone.
So we went the steward list thewhole time.
So every single summer we wereback in Chick and I actually
started high school in Jamaicaas well.
(03:37):
Yes, because my, but wholestory, but academics is a big
deal and I started high schoolin Jamaica, so I'm very close
to, I always say not my cultureis who I am.
Yeah, yeah.
Really is who I am.
So.
I love that you said that sixdays out of the week you was in
church.
'cause I, I didn't get six daysoutta the week, but my mother's
(03:57):
side of the family is BaptistChristian.
Okay.
My father's seven Day Adventist.
Ooh.
So when I say I went to churchall weekend,
Speaker 3 (04:06):
I
Speaker (04:06):
get it.
I went to church all weekend.
So from.
Friday night when I was with mymaternal grandpa, and I'm a
grandmother baby.
My grandmother's really nurturedand I always say I would not be
who I am.
Yeah.
Am funny enough, Booker name,start with L uh oh.
Sister Laura and, and GTE Carly.
(04:28):
So.
Friday nights I would be with mypaternal grandmother.
You know it's Seven DayAdventist as the Ong Friday I
worship time.
Time, yeah.
It's worship time, TV off, nobooks, no nothing.
It's worship time.
Then we went to church onSaturday, come back.
You know, I have a look atSaturday.
Lunch.
Yeah.
After church.
Big lunch.
(04:48):
Yeah.
Ate it on a minute and then Icame out for a little bit and
then my uncle would come get mebreakfast after, go to church
with my maternal grandma comeSunday morning.
Yes.
So it was church all weekend.
So I love that.
I love that.
So would you say, although youguys had three, I love that,
that saying, say it again?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
School, church, la, home.
Speaker (05:16):
Nice.
I love that.
Little try.
That's cool.
Trifecta.
So of the three, where did youmost resonate with home?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I think church is where I spent, I think, most of
my time.
Um, and I think because.
It's where I saw my friends.
It's where I hung out the mostwith people that I interface
with.
So yeah, definitely church.
Speaker (05:37):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Yeah.
Speaker (05:38):
So how having the definition of home changed,
right.
I think being part of what theysay, the, the spirit, like the,
the churchy world and thesecular world, or how, you know
what I mean?
I think we grow up, we startgoing to school, we start to
see, you know, people that wereraised with different value
systems and things like that.
And I always say it's notbetter.
It's different.
You know what I mean?
Because to me.
(06:01):
God calls us in very uniqueways.
And just because I know God,because I had the benefit of
being raised in a household thatwas very intentional about it,
doesn't mean that people thatdidn't have that same level of
intentionality don't know Godeither.
You know what I mean?
So I.
Where would you say, like yousaid, church was mostly home.
Tell me about that home in yourearly stages from being a young
(06:24):
boy to middle school, to highschool, and then an adult.
Like I'm sure that environmentchanged in many ways.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Definitely, definitely.
Yeah.
Like I said before, I grew up ina very, very conservative
Caribbean Christian family.
Um, and so you can, you can onlyimagine like what that looked
like.
Yeah.
Um, but yeah, we were superBaptist, super conservative.
Um, but I saw my, my uncle andhis siblings like.
Serve and support other peoplethrough church.
(06:50):
And I learned hospitality.
Um, I learned, I, I observedthat, but I also like learned it
myself.
So like that's, that was home tome.
Home was like hosting peoplehome, was serving others home
was, you know, doing the Lord'swork.
Um, and I think I've, I stillcherish that to this day.
Um, I think it'll, it evolvedover time, though, like I said,
(07:11):
when I was a kid, like that'swhat I saw.
That's what I lived.
Um, but I think when I turnedlike 17, 18, um, I started to
realize that I didn't agree witheverything that was done in the
church.
Right.
I didn't necessarily, or evenbefore that, like, there was a
lot of dissonance that Iexperienced.
Quite honestly.
I was like 11, 12, 13, and therewas some things that I learned
(07:33):
about my childhood that I waslike, wait, what is that about?
And like, what is this?
And who is that?
And like, what do you mean?
And that doesn't, that's not inalignment with what we say we
practice, right?
So that dissonance is what I waslike, Hmm.
I don't think church is where Ifeel most at home.
I'm gonna feel more at home bymyself.
So I started to retreat even atlike 13, 14 to my room and
(07:55):
that's where I found the mostsolitude and sanctuary.
Um, so yeah, like I kind ofstayed to myself for a long
time.
Speaker (08:05):
Nice.
Would you say that you are aloner?
Definitely.
Oh, nice.
And that's a, that's aninteresting take that you went
from being like part of such abig community in the church and
then you were retreated intobeing alone.
And the, the two things I wannatouch on with that, but before
we touch on that, I wanna talkto you about some of those
limitations and restrictionsand, and trying to find the best
(08:29):
word to use when it comes tochurch culture.
Right.
I think church culture can beexact.
That heavy size says a lot.
Um, church culture to me assomeone who, like I said, I had
the best of both worlds, right?
I was in church all weekend andboth my grandmother serves.
My grandfather served.
Like my mother is now deep inchurch like I have.
(08:49):
I understand the organization ofchurch, I understand the
community of church, but I alsounderstand the complexity of
people, right?
I, I know that they're not allone and the same.
And sometimes people use churchto, to hide and mask.
(09:10):
Right.
Um, it's easy to hide behindsomething.
Right.
But I always say, God, don'tdwell and mess.
So it's very clear to me whenit's not one thing than the
other.
But how, how was thelimitations, I'm just gonna use
that word of church.
How did that play a part onyour.
Mental and emotional wellbeingbecause I, I personally, it made
(09:32):
me sharper.
I can speak for myself.
It made me a lot sharper aboutnot who people said they were,
but how they showed up.
And, and it in a way taught mehow to navigate humans, right?
Because you can, you can meanwell, but we are all human.
You know what I mean?
You can mean well, and I thinkbeing a part.
(09:55):
Of the kingdom of God.
Right.
And the church gives us thisfalse sense of authority and
qualification that I think hepeople often use based on their
objective.
Yes.
So talk to me about some ofthose limitations.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yeah.
So first I'll say that thechurch has been like, I'm so
grateful for my experience, justlike you are, you know, growing
up in the church, I wouldn't bewhere I am without it.
That foundation is super, superimportant.
Um, I do think though, you know,being a PK and, and, and seeing
behind the veil of things, um,there are some, there were some
challenges.
(10:33):
There were some things that Isaw that I, um, that I asked
about, um, questions that I hadthat weren't answered.
And I think.
As a 11, 12, 13-year-old kid,you don't have the skills that
you need
Speaker (10:46):
all the verbiage.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Right, right.
To really articulate yourself orto, to question or to, I think
reason with a bit more, um,patience.
And I think those challenges,uh, when those questions weren't
answered, or quite honestly,people didn't have the skills or
didn't have the languagethemselves, the people that
we're submitting ourselves to.
(11:08):
Right.
Um, be family.
They're still just human.
Right, right.
Right.
They didn't have the language,you know?
So I think that was a hugelimitation.
Like if I didn't feel safe atchurch where like we're talking
about meeting God and likesubmitting and surrendering
ourselves.
Right?
But like the pastor who'sleading our church is also
(11:29):
family, right?
Who I still don't feel safeenough to talk to or safe enough
to share with.
There's, there's a, there's adichotomy.
Addition is there, so yeah.
And
Speaker (11:37):
there is, and there's a limitation and a, a a, an aspect
of safety that for me, I alwayssay when it comes, especially
for my kids, right?
When it comes to church or anyenvironment, I like to keep it
simple because I know as humanbeings, we don't all have the
same level of.
Emotional intelligence.
(11:57):
Intelligence in general orverbiage, right?
So communication skills.
So I always say I just wanna becomfortable.
If there is comfort here, thenit's, it's something that I can
start to proceed in.
But same thing for my kids.
'cause they go to church now.
We, we changed church homes afew times just'cause I like, I
(12:18):
like to have church homes,floral.
I don't like to have a singularchurch home.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
When did that become a thing for you?
Um,
Speaker (12:27):
when, so in Jamaica I had church homes, staples.
Right.
And when we came here to NewYork, my mother had various
church homes for periods oftime.
So when I was in elementaryschool, it was these two church.
And then we went from thischurch and then there's another
church.
And then we just always,'causein Brooklyn, I don't.
Being a child, like you said, Inever knew the why or how behind
(12:49):
why we're going to this churchversus that church.
But I made a friend and I neverknew the whys behind the
transitions, but I did see thedifferences.
You know, I saw the differencesin how people communicated with
each other, how to engage withmy mom, how to engage with my
brothers and I, mother andsister and I.
I saw the differences and Inoticed for myself that once
(13:13):
there was a sense offamiliarity.
Comfort Uhhuh.
I see.
You see where I'm going Thatmore of who they really are
started to unravel, and I'm veryintentional about purpose.
Like if I'm gonna spend my timedoing anything, I have a
tangible outcome from it.
(13:34):
So when I go to church, I'mgoing for fellowship and I'm
going to be close to God.
Let's
Speaker 6 (13:38):
go.
Speaker (13:38):
Those are my two tangible outcomes.
Honestly, nothing else.
Nothing else.
What made you
Speaker 3 (13:49):
sigh on those?
Speaker 2 (13:50):
It's so, it's so real and so honest.
I think of, well, I think thatthe needs that we have, you
know, when I'm talking aboutfellowship at church are so,
they, they, they vary, right?
They're not all the same.
Um, but I think that thisgeneration, um, of church
leaders is probably ill-equippedto really hear that truth,
(14:11):
right?
And, and minister to those needseffectively.
I think.
At least it's been myexperience.
Yeah.
Um, it's like our Sundayexperience should be this, you
should be coming for this onething.
If not, you know, like, you'renot, you don't belong.
Yeah.
Almost, you know?
Um, so yeah.
Thank you for sharing that.
Yeah,
Speaker (14:31):
thank you.
Because, and also in thatfamiliarity, I noticed that
their requirements becamechurch.
You have to have on a skirt, youhave to wear this, you have to
do this, you have to come atthis time, you have to park this
way.
So that's why I like homes.
I ha I like to hop.
I wanna be a guest at all times.
You know what's so funny whenyou said like your pastor right
(14:52):
now, if I'm honest, my primarypastor is steep Steven Ford,
Nick.
I love him so much.
Yeah,
Speaker 2 (14:59):
I get it.
Speaker (15:00):
I love him so much.
This is amazing.
I.
Hear his word more frequentlythan anyone else.
My algorithm on my YouTube giveme his 15 minute word every
single day, and it is part ofmy, every single day.
I'm just like, Stephen, for Nickin the morning after my, oh, my
personal devotion.
I'm like, Stephen Fork is, I getdressed because I think he gets
(15:23):
it.
I think he gets, and again, I'venever stepped foot in his
church.
I've never stepped foot in hischurch.
I've never gone to, I think he'sin the Carolinas, in South
Carolina.
Yeah, North Carolina.
Never been there.
But I understand, I love that hegets, he gets it in a sense
where people are looking to stayclose to God.
(15:46):
People are looking for words tokeep them in alignment and all
the rest is just the rest.
All the rest is just the rest.
And I think in church home,sometimes the rest becomes the
church.
Yeah,
Speaker 7 (16:01):
yeah.
Speaker (16:02):
But no, I love this.
I love what we're talking aboutand I want us to go back into
church home and then transitionto like how church home wasn't
safe.
Then you entered into your roomand then we're gonna talk about
your career aspirations, likewho do you like, who was Finn
and how did that transition?
I.
Like that full circle moment.
(16:23):
You see what I'm saying?
I'm trying to bring it allaround.
I love that we're talking abouthome and the variations of
church home.
Same.
This is,
Speaker 7 (16:29):
home was the word.
Speaker (16:31):
Home was the word because I think people are
always searching for somewhere.
For me, especially, I always sayearly, my early years of
childhood was filled withdiversity, chaos.
That's what I call it.
That's what it was.
And what I've come to learn,especially in the Caribbean
community, chaos is taughtfrequency.
(16:52):
So
Speaker 2 (16:54):
it's stuffy the norm.
Yes, yes.
Speaker (16:55):
Like it's like a, it's like a, it's like a, the
frequency you feel mostcomfortable mm-hmm.
In a certain generation.
Yeah.
Chaos is, and even as a youngchild, it made me uncomfortable
and that's why
Speaker 2 (17:10):
I withdrew.
Like, I would sense that I wouldlike, Hmm, this is too much.
I'm withdrawing.
You know, like, y'all figure itout.
You know, so
Speaker (17:18):
you see, that's good.
Whereas, see, I'm the oldestgirl, so you already know
Speaker 2 (17:25):
the, the, you carried away.
Speaker (17:26):
Exactly.
I'm the oldest girl and, and,and it's four of us.
My mother had four kids.
My father, she had me, my olderbrother, her first husband,
second husband is my littlebrother, my little sister.
And for.
A large portion of my life as achild, I always felt like the
adulting room.
And it was so taxing as a kid,like to always be the one to be
(17:53):
like, okay, now can we move on?
Can we stop this?
Can we eat?
Can we just not do this anymore?
You know what I mean?
So.
Stability and security and, and,and things like that.
When you say home really hitshard for me'cause I always feel
(18:16):
like I lived on my own since Iwas 17 years old.
I, I needed peace very early on.
I found that like peace isnecessary for me to exist.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Wow.
What made you choose your, yourpeace at 17?
Speaker (18:32):
I didn't, it wasn't chosen for me.
It was a situation where Ibasically.
So I've always been really goodat school, kind of take you
back.
I've always been really good atschool, so I've always had like
straight A's always kind ofkilling it.
And to the older I got my househome, life got more chaotic to
be honest.
And I, I was responsible for thewellbeing.
My little brothers and my littlesisters from the moment they
(18:53):
woke up to the moment they wentto bed, picked them up, dropped
them off homework.
And I was responsible for that.
Um, and as obviously I got olderand I'm trying to graduate high
school, I needed money and thatwasn't.
You know, there wasn't anallowance.
That's what I joke with my kidsnow.
It wasn't an allowance.
So I got a job.
My first job I got, it was 15.
I was a babysitter.
(19:14):
So from that I just kept gettingjobs and working and obviously
that makes little time me takecare of my, my brothers and
sisters.
So that created a lot ofconflict, lot of contention and.
Throughout the years, I justkept picking me.
I'm like, I need money.
I need to be able to do so thatit was like a slow burn.
(19:36):
And then because I started, Istarted a job in the city out
here, so I had to start takingthe bus really late and I used
to show up to my first periodclass and basically go to sleep.
I still needed to wake up at5:00 AM to get my little brother
and sister out.
So it's not like sleeping in wasnot a thing, you know what I
mean?
So I got them up and got themout, but as soon as I hit first
(19:57):
period, I was not, I wassleeping.
So, and as a result, I failed myfirst period class and my
counselors and everyone waslike, basically, this isn't,
this is not you.
What is happening?
And you know, in Caribbeanculture, as you know, there's a
lot of pride.
(20:17):
These heavy size bed is killingme.
These deep rats that you keeptaking is killing me.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Those are like bedrocks of our community, you
know?
Speaker (20:26):
Yeah.
The pillars to me that hold upnonsense.
The pillars that hold upnonsense.
So obviously due to pride, Ididn't share all what was going
on and that I'm working and thenrunning here, I just was like.
I have a lot going on.
And they were, and then youknow, some people bought it and
other people who, I say thatwhen I went to school there was
(20:49):
like real like, you know, likethe real mamas of school, like
my counselors and stuff waslike, no, Ika, we're not taking
that.
You know this work.
So you know what?
Now you gotta go to nightschool.
You either go to night school oryou don't graduate in high
school.
In high school.
Really?
You either go to night school oryou do not graduate.
That hit me like a ton ofbreaks, not me.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Maybe I know the books, I know the work.
You're not about to her, right?
She right and left back.
What?
That's that prize.
Super senior.
Right?
Right.
Cool.
Right.
So I was like, oh hell, hell no.
Speaker (21:25):
I'm going to night
Speaker 3 (21:25):
school
Speaker 5 (21:26):
girl.
Speaker (21:27):
So going back to me already limiting my availability
to be the primary caregivers tomy sisters, I had to limit it
more.
And that night, that night wasthe night things exploded.
When I had to go to night schoolwhen I was just like both his
parents was in the house and Isaid, he's down the street.
I have to go two buses away tonight school.
(21:51):
I will not pick him up.
You have to get up.
Thank get him.
Highly bad word.
Be cussing.
The cussing.
The cussing.
If you dare not pick him up.
You know how Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
You know a Caribbean lover, a threat.
Listen, if you not pick him up,nobody come back
Speaker (22:13):
in here.
And in my mind, again, I'm notbeing a super secret.
So I went to night school.
It was the longest ride backhome ever.
The two bus rides.
So, funny enough, that night Iactually got a ride from one of
my friend's, friends from nightschool.
'cause again, it was, I lived inFlatbush.
(22:35):
It was in Canarsie.
So it was literally like twobuses away.
And I remember taking like ahuge deep breath before I went
back in the house.
Woo.
I'm getting chills.
It makes me, yeah.
That's how traumatic it was.
And long story short,'cause Idon't even wanna go into details
and get emotional.
It, it, it became take your shitand get out my house.
(22:56):
Take your shit and get outta myhouse.
'cause I went to night school,it was difficult.
It wasn't like, again, that homewas comfortable, safe, stable.
It wasn't the those things, butit was still a home that I knew,
you know?
(23:17):
And at the time it was Wow.
And I remember I, it's funny, I.
I remember saying that when Ibecome Oprah, when I hate
getting emotional about that,but when God's purpose of my
life shows up and shine, right.
(23:38):
Don't tell anybody that you werepart of that.
And it's the reality of whathappened, and that's how I ended
up being 17, living on my own.
So when you say home, it meansso many different things to so
(23:59):
many different people.
'cause some of us don't comefrom the traditional home.
Thanks, Steve.
You're the best.
You know, and sometimes Ialways, that's why I'm such a
happy nerd.
(24:20):
I say only knowledge and thepursuit of learning teaches you
that your environment is not theonly environment that the home,
you know, is not the only homeyou can create.
So you tell me about how,although you had right, a stable
(24:42):
home and you had a stablechurch, you felt those
limitations and then youwithdraw.
Gimme more insight into that.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Yeah.
So I've never publicly sharedthis story, so, um, I'm gonna do
so now.
When I was, I must have beennine or 10.
I was 10 or 11.
I was going, um, coming backhome from church.
(25:12):
Um, I was getting a ride from adeaconess at my church.
And we got in the car.
Me and my older sister weregetting in the car and she was
like, Hey, did you, did you sayhi to your, your, your, your
sister?
I was like, no, what are youtalking about?
And she was like, yeah, that's,that's your brother sister.
I was like, what?
(25:32):
What do you mean?
She's like, your brother, yourbrother Joshua.
That's, that's his sister.
I was like, I don't know whoyou're talking about.
And she was like, Ben, stopplaying, like respect me.
Like go say hi.
I was like, I don't know whoyou're talking about.
Like, you really don't know.
I said, I have no idea whatyou're talking about.
She's like, oh my God.
Like, please don't say that.
(25:55):
I told you.
And that's how I found out thatmy father had another child.
Um, and like I went home, keptit to myself, um, because at the
time the Deaconess was rentingfrom my father.
So she was like super worriedthat if news broke out, that she
(26:18):
was the one that told us, youknow?
And so I felt the need toprotect her, um, for sure.
And so at, at 10 or 11, like, Idon't know what to do with that
tension.
Like I have no business knowing,holding, knowing that, right?
Knowing
Speaker (26:34):
or holding that in that space.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
So I just kept it to myself, um, for a few weeks and
then I, I asked my mom.
She didn't have the answers.
Um, I asked my dad, who kind ofdodged the question, um, instead
of answering directly, I thinkhe was like, who told you?
(26:57):
What do you know?
Like, trying to
Speaker (26:59):
figure out, figure out like what I know where the
curiosity, yeah, where thecuriosity is coming from.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
And I was like, you know what?
I'm just gonna withdraw like it.
This is too much.
I'm just gonna withdraw.
So that's kind of where itstarted.
Um.
As I grew and as I matured, Irealized like all the things
that, like, not all the things,but there were things that we
taught in church.
What I will say is that Ilearned to lie at home.
Like that is where I think welearned to lie.
(27:25):
Um, I
Speaker 8 (27:27):
ity very truth.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
I learned to lie at home.
I saw how instead of speakingthe truth or sharing the truth,
people were defending my fatheror like not sharing the truth.
Cleaning, not just cleaning itup but masculine.
Like literally hiding it, youknow?
So I was like, you know what,this is really interesting.
So as I like, as I lived mylife, when I look back on my
(27:52):
life, I realize like that's whenI started to learn to lie.
That's what I learned withHarlem.
Speaker (27:56):
How that's how her to lie.
I think that is a power andfigure that I learned to lie at
home.
And I, what's interesting,especially in the Caribbean
community, I don't think we seeit that way.
Of the, yeah, it's like, it'snot lying.
It's holding legacy.
Speaker 9 (28:12):
It's protect protection.
Yep.
Speaker (28:15):
That his, first of all, I'm sorry, you had to hold
something so heavy as a child.
You know what I mean?
That's, that is heavy andcomplex because then you have to
question everything.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Everything.
Well, if you could lie to meabout a brother that I might be
having, what do you like?
What am I
Speaker 5 (28:33):
child?
You know
Speaker 2 (28:35):
what else is not true?
So I think at 10 or 11 I startspiraling.
I question everything.
Well, if Nevada's not sure, thenlike, or this could be true,
then what else could you know?
So that meant to gymnasticsYeah.
Is
Speaker 9 (28:49):
too much for here, you know?
So
Speaker (28:52):
And how did that change whole?
So now both holes start lookingdifferent, right?
Absolutely.
Both church boom and your actualhome, you was like, yeah.
How did, how did that now changethe.
The frequency home.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah.
So I think that shaped my entireadolescent experience, like that
interaction, that quest fortruth.
Um, and being told like, yeah,no, you're not ready to know.
Or like, there's too much you,you know, I don't wanna tell
you.
Like, that shaped everythingabout the way that I saw church,
the way that I saw home, the waythat I saw safety.
Um, I no longer felt safe athome, like at my childhood home.
(29:31):
Um, and I also felt like.
I think that set me on a questfor like, for God too, in a
different way.
Um, and I learned 15, 16, 17 or18 there was more than to God
than just this Haitian Baptistdenomination that I was, you
know, accustomed to grew up in.
Um, and I wanted to explorethat.
(29:52):
I wanted to get to know God andin all the ways that God existed
or showed up, not just the waythat I was taught I should
conform to.
So
Speaker (30:00):
that's interesting.
How did that.
How did that add ripples to youraspirations?
Right?
So tell me more about when youpursued high school Hope Guys
school your career.
How did that add a, because Ialways say that in the Caribbean
culture church, we don'tunderstand how secrets add A to
(30:21):
your people charity, and thenpeople of color.
There's enough s in the world.
Yeah, yeah.
But then we have this.
Extra layer.
Yeah, extra task of a ripple.
So how did that ripple, likeimpact your high school,
college, your career now?
Speaker 2 (30:38):
So I think as a, as a pk, I, well going back a little
bit, my father was gonna say mymoms works as well.
Uh, a big family.
Mama mother was the firstsenator, the oldest sister, oh,
uh, editor her to the US And soshe was always supporter running
(30:59):
back home.
Uh, so I kind of think I learnednot just
Speaker 7 (31:05):
to love, but to save
Speaker 5 (31:07):
people
Speaker 7 (31:07):
very, very early on.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Uh, loving people is burned, serve people is burned.
Say you can't do.
So I think that Savior Plex Jamdrop.
Yeah, you, that savior complexled me, uh, spice social work.
Initially, um, I wanted to be acounselor.
I wanted to like, you know, helppeople navigate the terrains
that I was navigating.
(31:31):
Um, but I still realized like Ididn't wanna do that anymore.
Like, I realized I didn't feellike that was what God had
called me to do.
I felt like I was doing thatbecause it was.
What people wanted for me, butnot necessarily what I
Speaker 6 (31:47):
wanted for me.
Speaker (32:03):
Navigate you into the ways that they wanna go.
Yeah.
So would you say that likesocial, it's funny, I wanted to
be a social worker in highschool, right?
Yeah, I did.
And I tell a story now about, soin, during.
When I went school, they spark,um, where it would allow kids
that, you know, wasn't having agood day.
(32:23):
Like it was basically like withcouches and two couch.
Heard about that program.
Yes.
Spark was very important to neHigh School.
It was very, um, Ms.
McLean and oh bad.
I hate that Upper PanIN, but thetwo counselors in there were
pivotal to my wellbeing duringhigh school and I just knew that
(32:43):
that rule was safe space.
I could go and breathe and youknow, just society.
And I told her, uh, I wanna be asocial, a social worker.
I wanna help people.
I think there's a lot of peoplegoing things that they were or
even cheat or circumstances, oh,I'm gonna help them now.
(33:04):
You ain't that same thing I'llnever forget.
Right At Samuel j Tilden HighSchool, she had a F friend who
was a social worker.
Who worked in the New YorkCity's child, C-P-S-C-P-S.
Is it CPS?
Is that what was calling it?
CPS that worked in CPS?
(33:25):
And she said to me, IZ you sopray.
She was like, all that you gothrough, you just sober.
Just, I never forget, she justkept saying, you're super.
Amen.
I want you to know what you'reaspiring to, and I don't wanna
tell you what to do and what notto do.
So she's like, I'm gonna have myfriend come to school.
Keep in mind her McDonald.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
So that alone, that alone, I'm like, get to school
McDonalds.
Like I
Speaker (33:52):
was tight.
So she came.
So I hate that I forgot hername, but I remember the
conversation we had and she toldme about her dates.
Because that's what I'm, I'vealways been a questioner and I
want insight.
I, I want your sir,
Speaker 8 (34:06):
your bush.
Speaker (34:06):
You know, and I will never forget, she told me about
the days and it just,
Speaker 8 (34:12):
you
Speaker (34:14):
felt so hagy.
And she's like, we love peoplelike you, but you don't know how
to shut it off.
You can.
She looked me in my pupils andtold me it kill me.
She's like, I just met you and Ijust, you get me so judgey.
(34:36):
I'll never forget that shelooked me when I wasn't told me
it could kill you.
I left McDonald's going,
Speaker 3 (34:43):
I would never be a goddamn social worker.
I left McDonald's.
Like, guess not.
Guess
Speaker (34:51):
not just because her experiences,'cause she loved her
talk.
So you know when somebody istelling you something weak.
Speaker 5 (34:58):
Yeah.
Speaker (34:59):
All the fees and I'm receiving it.
Like, so that's, I love thatparallel that we have.
So you wanted, so that was youraspiration in high school or
college?
Or high school.
So what happened post highschool?
Speaker 7 (35:15):
Post high school?
I started, um.
Studying at CK University, I gota full ride.
Nice.
Say,
Speaker 3 (35:21):
come on, don't I hate what I hate.
I hate What I hate, and I'm notgonna let you do this on this
podcast, is I hate, especiallywhen I see black men, don't try,
don't play small now.
I miss it.
Okay.
Not, I went to Rutgers on a fullride scholarship.
Excuse me, intellect.
Excuse me, Ben.
(35:42):
Don't, don't play small hair.
Tell, come on.
What's gonna happen every timeyou come here, you gonna get
your flowers, okay?
You listen.
You went to Rutgers on a full
Speaker (35:52):
ride.
The scholarship, tell us aboutit.
Speaker 7 (35:55):
So I, so I started, go ahead with a full ride.
Um,
Speaker 3 (35:59):
but no, I, no, no, no.
Don't do that.
'cause you're human.
Me.
Yeah.
You still achieve that.
I did.
That is an achieve.
That's none of the achievementthat just giving out in our
community.
You just go on ruck on, come on,you did
Speaker 8 (36:13):
that.
Listen.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
You feel like,
Speaker 7 (36:18):
but three semesters when I realized, I don't know if
school is for me
Speaker 2 (36:23):
on, I don't know if school is for me right now.
I.
I just need some more time toprocess.
Uh, immature.
Uh, so I started, uh, workingfor Smashburger and a, it's a,
it's a bird or franchise.
Yeah.
So I, they opened up theirflagship store for their, first
(36:45):
of all, miso in, out there, butnot town.
So I started working as a
Speaker 7 (36:49):
dishwasher and then be six months, got months to,
uh.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Shift managers they call.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
Okay.
So not six months becoming theboss.
I just, first of all, what wenot gonna let you do is jump
from, I got full ride at Ruckus.
I was like, I'm not sure if thebooks is
Speaker (37:05):
for me.
Let me go wash dishes.
Right?
Like, but I feel like thathumility and I talked about it
was so made different podcastbecause in this, in society, we
don't wanna look like we'retrying.
Yeah.
We don't wanna look like we'refailing.
We don't wanna look like, wewanna look like we got it
together.
Sure.
For sure.
Everybody's ready to go on thenext trip.
(37:26):
Sure.
And do like, and I think it'simportant to high life, you got
a full ride to RutgersUniversity, did three good
semesters, and was like, I don'tthink I'm, this is me.
And you trusted yourself.
Yeah.
'cause the holy we have talkedabout is this.
You trusted yourself to go, I'mgonna go wash dishes.
(37:47):
Yeah.
A smashburger.
Yeah.
Tell me about that.
I know your parents was like, Iwonder you.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Yeah.
My, my dad was not having it.
So my dad, um, interestinglyenough, um, before I wanted to
be a social worker, I wanted tobe a chef.
Because my dad, when he camefrom Haiti, he was a, a chef at
a, uh, or sous chef at a, acountry club.
He used to always tell us heused to make$3 and 23 cents an
hour when he first came to theus, uh, to help us understand
(38:17):
how far he's come, right?
Um, so in some ways, some shape,some form, like that spirit of
hospitality and hosting peopleand cooking and all that always
has been a part of my life.
Um, and that's what I wanted topursue.
And when I realized like.
Dad said no.
I was like, okay, well, I can dosocial work and I can figure
that out, and I can still helppeople in this way.
(38:37):
I just didn't feel like that wasthe thing.
So I was like, I'd rather washdishes than do anything else.
I, I literally got a job atSmashburger.
Within six months I got promotedand then within two months I was
a regional store manager, openedup seven stores with them.
I was doing the thing that I waspassionate about, right.
I was hosting, which ishospitality or
Speaker 5 (38:55):
hosting,
Speaker 2 (38:56):
because that was like the spirit of home for me.
The spirit of home is likehospitality serving people,
right.
Hosting all of that is still,it's
Speaker (39:04):
also, and it's also following that internal
navigator.
Yeah.
Right.
Because some people would lookat it and be like, you had all
these
Speaker 3 (39:10):
other opportunities,
Speaker (39:12):
but you
Speaker 3 (39:13):
only, you know what home feels like?
Tell me about that.
So we opening up a ton of smashburgers under your leadership.
Yeah.
Love that.
And what, what, what's next?
Speaker 2 (39:23):
Yeah, what's next is I realized like I, I think I
still, I think I still need somemore formal education.
I think I'm ready to go backnow.
So I went back, I got my degree,um, this time in psychology.
'cause I think being in thetrenches with people and under,
and hearing different stories, Ithink.
Being at Smashburger allowed methe opportunity not to just work
in the back, but also work thefloor and listen to people's
(39:46):
stories and understand wherethey're navigating.
And that really made me curiousabout studying psychology,
understanding not just the mind,but people's experiences.
So I started studyingpsychology.
I got my degree in 2017.
Fast forward, congrat.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
And have been super passionate.
Always passionate about like menin particular, men's mental
(40:08):
health and their wellness.
Um, and have been working inspaces that prioritize community
and and wellness.
So.
Speaker (40:15):
Nice.
Yeah.
Tell me more about these spaces.
Will you do that?
I just wanna highlight thatthere is no job too small.
No.
Do you understand what I mean?
Yeah.
Because both you making thedecision, and this is, this is a
path that feels like home daily,right?
You not only get to stretch themuscle's, hospitality and
(40:36):
creating a hole in thesefranchisees.
For your employees, for theguests that bur in there, but
also saying to yourself that I,I wanna maximize this.
I'm also gonna go to school so Ican have a formal education as
well.
You know what I mean?
I feel like as a, in oursociety, we don't see things as
holistically as we need to.
'cause some people will becoming in and be like, oh,
(40:57):
where's the managers?
And you like, yeah, there's acomplaint here, but there's
something here.
You know what I mean?
And they don't expect that.
They don't expect that from ourcommunity.
They don't expect that from ourblack men.
And I, I love that you're like aSwiss army there.
I love that.
So tell me about these spacesthat you enter and you bring
(41:19):
this level of expertise.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Yeah.
So when I first graduatedcollege, uh, my first.
Formal job that I got, uh, wasan offered to be a youth
counselor in the city ofChicago.
And, uh, working with Black,brown, black and Brown boys,
ages 16 to 24, like justcreating space for them to like,
share their experiences.
Um, a lot of these brothers are,are kids that had seen their
(41:41):
homes get shot and murdered andplain sight folks that were
living through complex traumaand, and navigating that.
And so just creating spaceswhere they could like, be honest
about it.
Firing community.
That was what I was called to,uh,
Speaker 3 (41:56):
how was it take picking up from New
Speaker (41:59):
Jersey and going to Chicago?
It was
Speaker 2 (42:00):
exciting.
It was exciting.
I love It was so exciting.
Oh my gosh.
It was thrilling because Ialways felt like I was called to
more than just my community.
Um, but actually doing the workand being in the trenches and.
Doing the thing that I knew Iwas called to do.
Like doing purpose.
(42:21):
Yeah.
There's nothing like it.
Nice doing
Speaker 3 (42:24):
purpose.
Yeah.
Then
Speaker (42:25):
yes, doing purpose.
I don't think that, whoa, I justfeel like that isn't happy.
Yeah.
Because I think we always thinklike, what is my purpose?
And it's like people think it'sa statement versus an activity.
So Julie purpose wastransitional.
You, me, your, you mentionedyour
Speaker 2 (42:44):
pastor earlier, and I think my pastor in this season
is Dr.
Darius Daniels in one of thesermons that he, um, he preached
about a month or so ago.
He said, callings don't change,but roles do.
And I think for a while I wasmarried
Speaker 8 (42:58):
still.
What most,
Speaker 2 (43:00):
yeah, like my calling is to create spaces where black
men and black and brown menprimarily can heal.
Can come together, can connect,can convene, can be cared for,
like that's my calling.
Where I do that work, how thatshows up looks differently,
right?
So with black men in tech, I amthe head of community.
I lead membership where Ifacilitate space where black men
(43:22):
and brown and brown boys cancome together, can, can find
mentorship, can find community,but can also upskill, right?
Um, at church I serve andsupport local small groups that
are.
Again, creating that same space.
So like the calling is the same,but the role and responsibility
that I have is different.
So
Speaker (43:41):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Yeah,
Speaker (43:43):
I really, it's so crazy.
Thank you.
Like it, it brings me back tothis, this experience of
adversity, right?
In our younger years and overtime I have learned that God
states us for a reason.
(44:04):
Because I think when we think ofChristianity, we think of, you
keep thinking it's supposed tobe this pure ly experience and
that's why people and men likesto keep restrictions and
regulations and all the church.
But I feel like hearing thesestories make me feel that that
(44:26):
purity actually lives in thisthing.
It does, because then you wereen staked by that experience.
Just it opened up another eyefor you, not only to realize
your fault wasn't the holythought it was, but also you're
(44:46):
calling who secret.
Mm-hmm.
Because everywhere you've gone,you've created spaces and flows
for black men to assist.
And without that stain you, youwouldn't even realize that your
home is not the home theythought it was.
Oh my gosh.
That's so amazing.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
And I think what I learned along the journey was
that like I am home, likewherever I am, God is, and
wherever I am, like the spacethat I'm called to cultivate and
curate is.
It's never changing, like, yeah.
So
Speaker (45:20):
yes, I love that.
I love how not only yourpersonal experiences, but your
professional experiences hadthat, that similar feel of not
only creating a home, butpositioning you in the place
that you were the architect forthat.
See, you went in to wash dishes.
(45:41):
They said, no, I need you to bethe manager.
And they said, now I need you tobe a regional manager.
Do you say what I be thatsometimes, and that's why I joke
about this with Dave.
So I know I did joke about itall the time, that when it comes
to my podcast, I'm very overfeared.
I want everything to be great.
And I have found in the three,four years now the podcast that
(46:05):
every time I am all prepared,anxious about anything, I truly
see God cracking.
Yeah.
Like, like
Speaker 3 (46:12):
looking at me like truly cracking up because I'm a
dream.
And I dream big.
Speaker 5 (46:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
And I know he sit there and be like, oh, poor,
Speaker 5 (46:25):
poor little
Speaker 3 (46:25):
fool.
Speaker (46:29):
Poor little fool.
Don't know what I have
Speaker 9 (46:31):
thinks.
She knows.
Speaker (46:32):
She thinks she knows.
'cause we think we go and it,and I love this conversation
'cause it makes and bringseverything back to center to
focus on the public.
Focus.
And it's crazy that I tell mydaughters all the time, focus on
the details.
God knows the direction.
Speaker 4 (46:49):
Mm.
That's so deep
Speaker (46:53):
all the time because I have two daughters that are very
different and even my friends.
'cause you know, I feel likeeverybody's always trying, you
know, we're chasing the mochiand chasing happiness.
We're chasing boldness.
And I'm always like, you have noidea the direction, no air.
Focus on the details.
Anyone else details that?
What then what actually makesyou, what motivates your actions
(47:18):
most?
The details you need folks tocreate internally because we
can't want a partner or relationor even be a part of a community
unless you know your calls.
So tell me how you got to thepodcast.
Speaker 7 (47:39):
We not that just yet.
See?
Speaker (47:40):
Alright, listen, we ready for it.
How did you come to the podcast?
How did you say I need, I needthis conversation to be rolled.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
Yeah.
So in 2022, I ended a five yearlong relationship and.
I already talked about like notfeeling safe at home.
Um, it was a relationship thatwas a bit contentious towards
(48:11):
the end, and I knew that Ineeded to do some work to heal
and I wanted to heal inisolation alone by myself
without really having to answerto people like, where are you
at?
What you're doing?
Like, I just needed space andtime and I'll never forget.
Um, it was.
(48:32):
June 6th, 2022.
So like a couple months beforethat, um, I got a call from my
mentor and she was flying totown to see me.
And she, no, she wasn't flyingto town to see me.
Uh, she had just landed homewhere she was new, uh, Savannah,
(48:56):
Georgia, Dr.
Batis, she was, she just landed.
Called and was like, baby, you,you're on my heart.
I can feel you.
What's going on?
I just broke down.
I, I told her what I wasnavigating, what I was feeling,
and she said, why don't you justgo home?
Why don't you just go back home?
So, mind you, at the time I wasliving about 10 or 12 minutes
(49:18):
from my childhood home, um.
I was like, I, I don't wanna dothat.
And I don't, I don't think it's,I had all the reasons why.
Yeah.
All the after 30, going backhome, like, I don't wanna humble
myself.
I don't wanna do that.
I want, you know,
Speaker (49:32):
I wanna keep you full.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
What does it look like?
What do I look like going backhome?
Yeah.
And she was like, baby, justcall did Daddy and ask if you
can come back home.
And I did.
He said, yeah.
And so four months later I cameback home and, uh.
The podcast is like chronicallyin that journey, what it looked
like to humble myself and comeback home to heal one.
(49:57):
Um, but also what I discoveredalong the journey, what I, what
I, what I discovered about me,but what I discovered about
people, what I discovered about,um, life, about God, about
relationships.
Relationships too, right?
About grief, about, you know,giving myself permission to
grieve.
Um, not just someone who hadpassed, but.
Relationship.
You know,
Speaker (50:16):
I tell about that and yeah.
And giving yourself the grace togreed expectation, right?
I think as human beings, wesubconsciously build these
expectations, show the peoplearound us who we love, that
we're like, oh, this will happenand that will happen.
Then it doesn't, and it doesn'tnecessarily have to be in
(50:37):
totality, the ending or of arelationship, but we kind of see
those expectations start to joinup.
And taking space to, to grievethose expectations.
True.
True.
How was something that is,'causeI feel like in this society
there was
Speaker 3 (50:52):
challenges
Speaker (50:54):
because I feel like in this society where
statistically, there are morepeople living with their parents
in their thirties now than ever,
Speaker 2 (51:03):
ever before.
So that's what made me say.
I think I wanna have more peopleon the po I wanna talk about, I
was running into people that waslike, oh my God.
Like that's my experience.
So I, I did that too.
Or like then I've been hidingfor the last six months because
this is what I've been doing.
Like, and I wanted to createspace where we could talk a bit
(51:24):
more openly about we werenavigating as 30 something year
olds that were coming back home,whether after like.
A breakup or an illness or
Speaker 5 (51:32):
or being laid off
Speaker 9 (51:34):
economy is crazy.
Or like, you remember your dad,I, right?
Yeah.
You come back home or you got aprognosis, more support.
She'll like talk about that withpeople.
Has we interesting.
So
Speaker (51:47):
I love that.
Yeah.
I love because the pat back homeis not narrow.
Speaker 8 (51:53):
It's not, we,
Speaker (51:54):
it's not linear now.
And, but when we see statistics,right, when we see the headlines
and there were people in theirthirties with their parents than
them before, I think it, itbecomes a joke.
Yeah.
It becomes a joke.
It becomes if this point ofshame and contention where if
all things they want,
Speaker 8 (52:12):
it works.
Speaker (52:15):
And, and I think personally when I see those
statistics again, I know I, whyI hopefully No, I'm lying.
But, but also me creating Oh,yeah.
With my husband.
I know since I was 18, like youand it, it's, when I read that
(52:38):
it may be weak for mygeneration, it may be weak for
millennials.
Because we are coming to, in theplace, into our society, to the
space of consciousness about ourwellness and our wellbeing.
And if the numbers is our wordin technology about my data, if
(53:01):
the numbers are saying there isa large portion of turning home.
'cause a large portion was apatent.
Well
Speaker 8 (53:08):
sure.
Speaker (53:09):
And we are seeking out.
That level of wellness to bewhole, find a home eternally to
then thrive, right?
Like everything is not, thereare the win sharks.
It's more about the wellnessdevil.
So I love this.
Tell us more about the hype.
Yeah,
Speaker 7 (53:27):
so
Speaker 2 (53:30):
the podcast kind of got birthed from a few different
reasons and things, but there'sa piece of research that I read
a few years back.
Um.
The Surgeon General of theUnited States, the 19th and
21st.
I believe his name is Dr.
Marty.
Don't get me.
Don't.
Yes, we well put
Speaker 5 (53:48):
the real name.
Don't worry about that.
Go
Speaker 2 (53:50):
ahead.
He, he put out an articlestating that there's like a
global epidemic of loneliness.
Um, loneliness is reallyaffecting communities
nationwide.
Right.
I really felt called to create aspace where, you know, we could
talk about that loneliness thatwe're experiencing.
Right.
Um, and talk about what we'redoing to heal that.
(54:13):
Talk about what we're doing tocome together and like, and heal
and, and heal well.
Speaker (54:18):
So it's the podcast where you come together.
So you talk about how.
People who's made their way backhome.
Speaker 2 (54:23):
Yeah.
People have made their way backhome.
People that have, they'relooking for an answer looking
for a way back home.
Right.
It's not a one size fits all,but like
Speaker (54:32):
what a whole need for them.
Yeah.
Right.
So I feel like we define culturein so many different ways.
There's a whole withinourselves.
Yeah.
That we need to kind of firstthe foundation for sure.
As we navigate the world.
Then there's the homes that wecreate and the spaces that we
occupy.
Then there is the home that youbrought to the iron follow For
(54:52):
sure.
So talk to me about like thevariations in the conversations,
what you, what the audiencecould expect and they look your
podcast.
Speaker 2 (55:00):
Yeah.
I think the audience can expecta lot.
Uh, I have a lot of guests thatare, um, that have been with me
through my journey home.
So you'll, you'll hear a lot of,uh, different stories about me
and who I've been and you know,how people have related to me.
But you'll also hear, you know,spiritual leaders.
You'll hear coaches, you'll heartherapists talk about what home
means, what healing means, whatit looks like to different
(55:21):
people.
So there's something foreveryone.
Speaker (55:23):
Nice.
Thank you.
I love that.
And I love that it's not linear.
Yeah.
And I love that.
Like you said, you had acredited professional.
Yeah.
And you
Speaker 6 (55:31):
yourself for sure
Speaker (55:32):
studied
Speaker 6 (55:33):
psychology,
Speaker (55:34):
you know, because I think also in our society you
have a lot of talking and withlittle experience with a lot of.
I'm glad to see that you didn'tany ED to work, but you won't
free it be.
Speaker 2 (55:46):
Yeah.
Thank you.
Speaker (55:49):
This has been such an amazing competition.
I could go off a d.
Could be.
Thank you so much being on thepodcast.
Thank you.
If I let you go air on thepodcast, we believe that music
Speaker 8 (56:01):
is the Interate rapist as he's being.
Speaker (56:07):
Music helps us through our challenging times that
amplify our highlight.
So every week, my guess what?
Buy on the cake.
So tell me what's in the queue,what you, what's
Speaker 2 (56:18):
in the queue?
A lot of afrobeats.
Speaker 3 (56:21):
Hey, you hit the boo.
I
Speaker 2 (56:25):
hit the, but a lot of Afrobeats Uhhuh.
Um, there's a Christian groupcalled the Detroit Collective
that I've been robbing to.
Um, there's a particular songcalled What A Friend We Have
that I've been like.
Having a repeat?
Repeat, yeah.
Repeat.
Yeah, for sure we have.
Nice.
And then, um, what else?
(56:48):
I think that's it.
Yeah.
Speaker (56:49):
Nice.
I love those.
I love those two intersections.
Yeah.
Because of my podcast.
How do you be mind?
Yeah.
People always understand thereis a spiritual component to our
discussion.
Right?
But I'm also like we are humanbeing.
I don't know where in oursociety we came to this, this
disbelief that spirituality andChristianity means perfection.
(57:10):
Right.
I don't know where that camefrom, but we are human beings
and we are lead.
So
Speaker 3 (57:15):
I'm definitely listening to Kirk, Frankie,
right in a little spice hands,listen and not listen.
And I'm talking reggae spice.
Listen, I could do it both.
I'm listening.
A little maverick city.
Listen, I'm this little smokeyNelson, but I'm also.
Definitely listen to Jason.
Okay.
I'm definitely listening toJason like,
Speaker (57:37):
you know what I mean?
So thank you so much.
I love this conversation.
We continue to be on thisconversation because I'm gonna
beat me.
Your fuckings, you are talkingabout home.
But thank you so much.
This was such a treat.
Speaker 6 (57:48):
Thank you.
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