March 4, 2024 • 61 mins
Summary:
Navigating the biotech industry's complex terrain takes more than just science smarts—it demands resilience, ethics, and a strong sense of self. Join me, Raul Lopez, as I sit down with a professional from a leading pharmaceutical company, who shares their journey from a humble upbringing to the boardrooms of corporate power. We tackle the issue of systematic racism and how it shapes experiences in the workplace, the strategic importance of code-switching, and the personal ethics involved in navigating a profit-driven industry.
The conversation with my anonymous guest casts a candid light on the financial realities of starting in the biotech field, particularly in cities with a high cost of living like Boston. We discuss the career advancement ladder, from entry-level positions to the director level, the ethical dilemmas faced in drug development, and the often invisible, yet passionate individuals working behind the scenes. Our discussion also delves into the heartbreaking decisions behind potential treatments and the balancing act between effectiveness, profitability, and moral dilemmas.
Wrapping up the episode, we contemplate the nuances of workplace dynamics and the changing landscape of career advancement across generations. My guest imparts wisdom on the importance of maintaining a healthy work-life balance, the fallacy of corporate diversity efforts, and the personal repercussions of professional growth and code-switching. This episode is a must-listen for anyone invested in the real stories behind the corporate facades of 'big pharma,' those navigating career growth against the odds, and for those looking for guidance and support in the biotech industry.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Raul Lopez (00:04):
This is Raul Lopez, and you're listening to how Do
you Say Success in Spanglish.
The path to success isn't easyFor minorities and people of
color.
Many attempt to journey withlittle to no guidance.
Join me as I sit down withindividuals who share their
stories of perseverance so thattogether we can learn how to say
success in spanglish.
What's good me Hente?
(00:30):
Welcome back to how Do you SaySuccess in Spanglish.
This is Raul.
Today we have kind of a verydifferent type of interview.
I have a buddy of mine who's adirector level at a big farmer
company.
How's it going?
Hello, I'm a farmer.
Because of the level of hisposition, he does definitely
(00:52):
want to stay, have someanonymity moving forward, but he
is going to dish out and giveus some good content, I guess.
To start off, tell us a littlebit about yourself.
Guest (01:04):
Yeah, I want to be real so that I feel like this is
allowing me to say what needs tobe said, to put it out of the
open.
I think throughout all ourlives we've had difficulties.
We had to deal with things suchas racism, sexism, a lot of
different stuff.
A lot of companies don't handleit very well and they
(01:26):
especially don't like it whenyou put it out in the open like
that Think Sackler family, butnot that deep right.
But there's a lot of truth tothat.
But I just want to say thatright away.
Raul Lopez (01:43):
Yeah, this isn't going to be something the CIA or
FBI is going to be knocking onour doors to get down.
Guest (01:47):
No, I just want to keep my job.
I don't want to be able to saywhat I want to say and have my
house and stuff.
I got to pay the bills andthat's fine.
Raul Lopez (01:58):
And you know what, sometimes there's stuff that we
need to talk about that we can'tnecessarily talk about for
those same reasons, especiallyin the public sector.
So I really appreciate youtaking the time to be here.
So I guess, to start off, youwork in biotech.
Do you want to tell me a littlebit about what working in
biotech is like?
Guest (02:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I went to school.
I went to BU actually forbiomedical laboratories,
clinical sciences.
I think you actually spoke tosomeone else who did the same
major there.
He's the one that actually kindof put me on into it and you
know I was going through somestruggles in college.
Go back to your first question.
Sorry I skipped over it, but itkind of.
You know, I grew up in Texas.
(02:38):
You know, lower middle class, Iwould say exactly poor, but
there wasn't a lot of money todo other things.
Right, I did go to Montessorischool from kindergarten through
Was it eighth grade?
I think?
Yeah, so it's a littledifferent, a little different
way of teaching and learning andstuff that.
(02:59):
I went to high school and myhigh school was kind of weird.
There's this little subsectionof like white the ones that
developed in that district or inthe school area very rich, very
white, but it was very minority.
I'm very.
That school had really good APclasses we're talking like even
(03:21):
when my sister went therethey're doing like forensics and
stuff like that.
Like my sister dealt withcadavers, nice, so it was.
It's really high school, butyeah.
Raul Lopez (03:29):
Oh man, we couldn't even get like live animals
because we couldn't afford it.
We had to do the digital one,where you look online and you
cut the fake, the fake frog andstuff like that yeah.
But?
But like old old 1999 computer,it wasn't beyond.
Guest (03:47):
But yeah, so you know there's this little subset, this
little section cut out of thatschool.
But it was really really good.
Right, I was number like 80,something like high 80s and
graduating class, and I was thenumber two Hispanic male.
My GPA was 4.7.
So that kind of gives you alook into how competitive that
(04:11):
high school was.
At least that little subsectionwas.
Raul Lopez (04:14):
You know there's there's kids and graduating by
class, you were top 80 and above4.0.
Guest (04:19):
Yeah, Out of a school, entire school.
That was like 5000 kids.
Raul Lopez (04:22):
Holy shit yeah.
Guest (04:25):
So, it was really big right.
So that's kind of wild in thesense that there's this little
section in the school where inhigh school I had to deal with
shootings, stabbings, gangrelated stuff.
Like I talked to my wife, mywife grew up in South Shore,
massachusetts, and kind ofreally, really small town I'm
like hey, do you ever get yourass kicked for wearing the wrong
(04:47):
color T-shirt to school?
Raul Lopez (04:49):
Yeah, yeah, that's happened.
I mean, I was talking to afriend of mine the other day who
started listening to thepodcast and we went to the same
school and she was like you know, even though we went to the
same school, she lived in anicer part of the city we lived
in, compared to like where Igrew up with.
Or my other friend, Persha, whoI interviewed, grew up in, you
know, and I was telling her Iwas like I remember my cousin
Stacy, who was coming home fromschool I think she was about my
(05:11):
daughter's age.
She was like 9, 10, walkingfrom like second or third grade
and while her and her friendswere walking back, a group
jumped out of a car and beat thecrap out of some dude on the
side of the road with a bunch ofbats you know what I mean and
she ran home crying, screaming,like afraid that something
happened to her.
Guest (05:27):
Yeah, that's traumatizing .
Raul Lopez (05:28):
Yeah, like an eight year old and now I have a
daughter who's 10 and I worryabout her taking a bike down my
suburban road by herself withoutme around.
Guest (05:37):
You know how times have changed, right?
Yeah, it's like completelydifferent.
Raul Lopez (05:39):
But growing up like that, you know if you didn't
grow up with it, it's not normal.
Yeah.
Guest (05:45):
I think it's.
I mean we can touch on thislater, but it has a lot to do
with, like the information flow.
Like you're allowed to see a lotmore things now that are going
around, not even just yourimmediate neighborhood but the
world and stuff like that.
So I think that really feedsinto it.
But yeah, so high school waswild and you know what kind of
drove me to science was was Iwas decent at math, I was a
(06:07):
really like science andspecifically towards health
science, my sister special needsso that really pushed me in
that way.
But yeah, so graduated highschool, went to BU and actually
when I was a junior I was reallystruggling right.
Freshman year was fine, totallyfine.
(06:29):
I did all AP classes my juniorand senior year in high school.
So first semester was a cakewalk, real easy.
I'm pretty much I didn't reallytake any of my AP credits just
because I wanted to.
I knew I had to ease into it alittle bit, but after I got past
(06:49):
that it was an exponential bump.
I was like oh, wow, like thisis a lot right.
But I want to say it hamperedme.
But growing up and going throughMontessori school it's a lot of
hands on, it's a lot of toolsthat you have to do things like
when you're dividing stuff,learning division to elementary
(07:09):
school.
You have these blocks and youbreak them up to, you know, put
them into the groups right Toshow your work.
So, going to a auditoriumclassroom style way of learning,
oh it was.
It was rough.
So you know, it was hard toadapt to that.
And then come junior year I wasreally struggling, my grades
(07:31):
were struggling just becausewe're getting into like some
really complicated things.
And you know, I was in theschool of engineering at first.
Everything was reallytheoretical, it was all book
work, all paperwork, and I justwasn't into it.
You know, looking back, I justdidn't like the paperwork and it
really worked against me and Istruggled.
(07:52):
You know, then, on some one ofmy fraternity brothers actually
pointed me towards the MetCollege.
I think you talked to a coupleof other people that went to Met
and listened to others.
Yeah, really good, really lotsof people there, lots of people
of color.
This is designed to, you know,be a night school, right For
(08:14):
people who are working andwhatnot.
So I switched into Met College.
You know, tocque on was abiomedical laboratory, clinical
scientist, stupid, stupid lawmade for no reason, and what it
really was was biotech.
They're teaching you how to docell culture, protein
purification, on a very, verysmall scale and what it meant to
(08:38):
be to have good documentationpractices and things like that.
So it was a lot more hands onand enjoyed it.
But I will say it was veryelementary where I was like, wow
, this is college, like, oh,this is really easy, like you
know, so my grades are great.
Then it was a code go into lab,knock stuff out and leave.
(09:03):
And it was to the point where Iwas helping everyone out with
my buddy I know, if you, we havea friend we can talk about
later, who's not with somebody,your friend from Rhode Island
before.
But yeah, I want name drop, butyeah, so it was like me and him
, we paired up and we justknocked this stuff out, right.
So it was really good.
And then, you know, I was againI'll strongly, didn't know
(09:23):
really what to do with my life,didn't know what this would lead
to.
And fraternity brother reachedout and said, hey, you want a
job.
I was like what are you talkingabout?
And he was like a biogen isactually hiring right now for
the many factories facilities inCambridge, massachusetts,
kendall Square, which is likethe mecca of biotech.
(09:43):
There's so many companies rightthere.
So he was like can you read,can you write?
Can you follow instructions?
I'm like, yeah, he's like, allright, you'll be fine.
So, you know, go to theinterview One of the guys that
was interviewing me.
He's like yeah, you don't worryabout this.
Just, you know, go through themotions and we're going to get
you in there.
Raul Lopez (10:01):
So, that's where I started.
Guest (10:03):
I was really pretty much a glorified dishwasher washing
parts that go to likebioreactors, cleaning
purification skids and stufflike that and a manner that just
had to be documented and makinglike buffers and cell media
things like that.
It was really easy and the thepay that I started out with
(10:25):
because I think it's reallyimportant, because it kind of
puts it everything intoperspective as we go through
this and talk, start talkingabout medication and cost and
things like that and get all theway to the money.
But I started at $40,000.
And you think and that was justin that department there's also
people at my level in thedepartments that were doing the
(10:47):
cell culture, that were growingthe cells, that was, taking that
protein that those cellsproduce, which is the medicine,
and purifying it.
So you're talking about very lowlevel.
You really don't have to beskilled because the idea of it
is that you're followingdirections, like baking a cake
right, using the back of a boxto bake a cake.
That's the general idea of goodmanufacturing practices is to
(11:10):
be able to follow a set ofwritten instructions and be able
to perform it, that you can beable to pluck someone off the
street to a degree not totally,because there are also some
competencies that you need tohave, like being able to read it
right in the other directionsRight, and put them in this, in
this kind of role, and you makeit right.
But what does that do?
That keeps your labor verycheap.
Raul Lopez (11:33):
Yeah, and it's in 40K in Boston is different than
40K and not other.
You know it's a high costliving, so it's really on the
low end for like a Boston job.
Guest (11:44):
I think this data is old, probably by several years now,
but the last article I read isthat the poverty line is 70K in
Boston.
So if you're bringing in lessthan 70K you're in poverty.
So 40K then it was probably alittle closer, but it's
(12:04):
definitely under the povertyline, right.
Of course I had those livingrooms, roommates and stuff like
that.
So our house, we weren't livingin poverty.
Do we go a whole lot?
But yeah, and we're talkingabout, you know, I was a young
kid, I was 21 at the time butthere are people that were
working at that same level, youknow, not really making a whole
(12:25):
lot more.
That were their fifties andstuff like that.
So it's, there's a lot of thingsin play with that.
If you're able to move up, youcan make decent money.
I think what I ended up thereI'll why I entered there.
I was a level two, but when Iwas a level five there, before I
left there it was, I was makingover.
(12:48):
I was making six figures, right, but that was over time.
That was working with holidaypay, which was triple time.
So you can make all right moneyI don't say good money, but you
can make all right money.
But it is a grind.
Raul Lopez (13:02):
Yeah, and just like I said, once again, we put
things in perspective.
You know, 100 K in Boston isvery different than if you do in
100 K and in South Texas orsome other places like that
where you might even go a littlefurther.
Guest (13:14):
Oh yeah, you'll look like .
You look like King.
Yeah, you know, it's funnyright.
Raul Lopez (13:18):
Yeah.
So you know, just to put inperspective, people think it's
six figures, man, I would.
I would kill to get six figures.
Yeah, but we're talking aboutBoston.
Same thing if you're living inlike New York, Los Angeles, San
Francisco.
Yeah exactly those places aredefinitely not going to give you
the same return on that type ofmoney.
That's right.
Continue on.
Guest (13:35):
No, it's, it's a yeah.
So I left there just becausethe that facility got sold off
and I went to a smaller biotechwhich was a gene therapy.
It was more of a startup.
I got out of manufacturing, butI used that knowledge to take
to this, where I was going to apilot plant, which you know, you
(13:56):
have research and development,which those are the ones that
kind of discover more or lessright, or take something that
came out of university and justreproduce it right To say, ok,
yeah, this does work, we canmake this therapy All right, now
let's start putting in the miceand see what it does right.
Yeah, you have those kind ofgroups that run that.
(14:18):
Then you also have like processdevelopment, which really is
taking that really researchstuff that's fresh out of the
university or our discovery, andthen, all right, let's start
making a little bit bigger,let's start seeing how we can
make more of it, tweaking thingsto make it more efficient, to
(14:38):
just help start bringing thecost down a little bit to make
it, etc.
Right.
Then you have, like some peoplecall it like pilot plants, some
, some companies call ittechnical development, which is
really like all right, that'sscience is set Like this is how
you make it.
Now we're going to make itinstead of like one liter at a
time in the bioreactor, we'regoing to make it like 250 liters
(15:03):
of it or 500 liters or 1,000liters of it.
Depends on what you're doingright and that Use a lot of my
knowledge that I had frommanufacturing because you're
starting to get to similar scale, and it was really just like
all right, how am I connectingthis bioreactor?
(15:25):
I need to get it to this pumpto pump it all out into a big
vessel pretty much.
How am I doing that?
All right, well, I know I havethese two big sizes.
I have no these connectionsizes.
I actually need to put it alltogether and write down the
instructions, and that goes intomanufacturing.
That tells them how to recreatewhat we did.
You know that role is was allright.
(15:49):
My boss was very hands on.
I really wasn't going anywhereif I stayed there or it would
take a long time right.
Raul Lopez (16:00):
What made you recognize that you needed to
leave?
Well, they started.
They started cutting everything.
Ok, because a lot of time we'llwork on a job and we're like,
oh, if I keep working, I'll stayhere and I'll move up, I move
up.
And then sometimes it's hard toread the writing on the wall
and say I should jump off.
I was going to jump off thissinking ship before I got there.
I think that's very differentto it's, obviously different to
(16:21):
different industries.
Guest (16:23):
But with the biotech, especially if you're at a small
company like let's take, let'stake, let's take Eli Lilly, for
example, how do they have abunch of stuff on the market?
Right, so they have moneycoming in because they're
selling medication.
Right, they're sellingtherapies.
Startups not so much.
They haven't sold anything yet.
They don't have anything tosell.
They're just trying to figureout If they're selling
(16:46):
medication, right, they're justtrying to figure out if this one
thing they have can't evensniff Making it right, their
first goal is to get into theclinic to do a phase one trial
to see if it's safe.
The goal of the phase one trialis really don't kill anyone.
Yeah, they're with.
(17:06):
The way venture capitalistshave gone now with the scene is
because it takes it these fromdiscovery to the market and
we're talking like 10 years,like a decade, maybe more, maybe
sometimes less, and we'realways trying to speed it up
right, because you want to getto that revenue point.
(17:27):
A lot of venture capitalistsare looking for efficacy in the
phase one trial, so a lot ofcompanies are trying to explain
efficacy, yes, so efficacy ishow?
how does it work?
Right, if you have a diabetesmedication that's supposed to
lower your ins or, you know,control your insulin output, is
(17:47):
it actually controlling?
Is it you know?
Is it not?
So venture capitalists who areinvesting in these usually
starts out private.
Before they go public, do anIPO, they're really saying is it
worth it for me to keep pouringmillions and we're talking
about millions of dollars intothese 50 people that you know to
(18:14):
make this therapy and get ittowards the clinic, I mean
towards commercial, right?
So if you, if it's not reallyefficacy effective in phase one,
now a lot of times things aregetting dropped now like they're
not even making to phase two,which is usually your dosing.
How little do you need?
How much do you need?
Do you need to find that sweetspot within the human body?
(18:36):
Right?
So it's.
Raul Lopez (18:40):
I mean not to get into super, super detailed
regarding the practice ofbiotech, but in essence there's
a lot of potential drugs outthere that could be beneficial,
that are being dropped early onbecause they're not as effective
in the initial stages.
Guest (18:56):
Oh, they're not.
If they're not effective, yeah,they're not going to be
effective.
You can't sell it right, andyou got to keep in mind
especially working in thebiotech industry and especially
working with on the startup side, as well as even if you're
working for a larger companylike a now still clinical.
So most of the things I'm goingto work on and going to touch
(19:19):
are not going to work.
You know it's it's it's goingto be really tough on people
sometimes because they getcaught up in it right.
Raul Lopez (19:28):
I mean right now, with COVID and everything that
happened.
A lot of people have differentperspective when it comes to the
idea of big pharma, essentially, you know what I mean.
People get really like, youknow.
So it's hard sometimes forpeople to realize that there's
people working on something,hoping for it to be successful
and helpful, and then it getsdropped, as opposed to just
(19:50):
seeing the big corporate side ofsays, oh all farmer wants his
money from us which I'm surepartially true, but it is true
but there's still people inthose positions below not making
those big money that areputting their all into these.
Yeah.
Guest (20:06):
Yeah, but that's just, honestly.
The people not making a lot ofmoney in this chain Are the
people where I started outactually physically making the
product, right?
You know all the scientists andengineers.
And funny thing is, throughoutmy career I, you know, I said I
was in engineering school and Igot out of engineering school.
I didn't graduate with anengineering degree.
(20:27):
At one point in my career I wasan engineer Just just from
working in the field andlearning the specifics of what
to do, right.
But you know those people.
They're making good money.
They're making pretty goodmoney, right.
They're making livable wages.
They're making they're able tomake live a comfortable life,
right.
It's probably the reason why itcosts so much, too, right.
(20:49):
Is you know who do you wantdesigning it and being in
control of a clinical trial ofstuff that goes right?
So I, you know, I hear that.
You know what you said aboutthe high cost of pharmaceuticals
, but there is a lot of moneythat goes into it and it is
years.
(21:09):
I think that's a problem that weneed to work through as a
people.
Is you know how do we lower it?
Because it is quite expensive?
But what that does is, I thinkit creates a culture of greed,
right?
Hey look, I brought out theSackler family.
(21:32):
That's pretty hot.
Go, I'm plugging Netflix, rightnow because it was pretty good.
It's called a painkiller.
I think that's very puts itinto perspective a little bit
right.
But I really, when it all comesdown to it, no matter how, if
it even has a barely working,it's going to get cut.
Why?
(21:53):
Because it probably is notgoing to work as well.
When you get to the populationto have to make it a whole big
thing, right, a lot, a lot ofvolume is probably not going to
work, right?
I think Biogen had, withCambridge's controversy about
where they're Alzheimer's drugwhere don't quote me on the
numbers now.
I remember it was somewhat oflike around 30% saw
(22:16):
effectiveness, but also 13% ofpeople had, I think it was 13.
It was around there, I'm goingto say it's around there had
huge complications with theirbrain swelling.
Oh yeah, that's not good.
Yeah, so it's tough right.
And these are the ethicaldilemmas that you get into this
(22:36):
space.
And, being a person that, if Iwas still working on Biogen, how
would I feel about it?
Yeah, because I mean, is theAlzheimer's patient making that
decision?
Yeah, no, they're not.
It's their family member, right?
Raul Lopez (22:51):
You know it brings up a good point.
To me this is just once again alittle bit off topic, but just
as I got older and I've had myown dealing of health issues,
you start weighing the costbenefits of what's the next step
that you want to do to take oncertain medications, certain
procedures to help you moveforward.
You know what I mean.
That's on an individual,personal basis.
Not one point do I put.
Okay, now, which one of that isgoing to make me more
(23:12):
profitable and get me more money?
Yeah, so that's three factorsof will this help?
How effectively will it help?
And then, how much money can wemake so that we can continue
making more medicine?
Yeah, and I think you had.
Guest (23:22):
I mean, if you're going, to the biotech injury out there.
People you're going to come toface with your with some
decision of am I okay doing thisand this?
Raul Lopez (23:35):
is something that comes up.
I mean not just forpharmaceuticals, but you know,
there's times when I look atjobs and they're coming up and
I'm like, oh, this is, oh, theyhave openings for, you know, a
big oil and gas company, or likeCoke industry.
I mean, you're like, whatcompanies do I am?
Am I ethically opposed to?
I mean, when I started workingat one of the jobs, it was
called Bracewell and Giuliani itwas Giuliani and he left like a
(23:57):
year after I started there.
But that was before we gotGiuliani.
We got now.
No, I don't love it.
Yeah, yeah.
So you know he was, he was more, he was more.
You know this is the, the heroof 9-11, giuliani as opposed to
the.
You know Trump's Trumpsupporting Giuliani that he is.
(24:19):
Now that he started getting Ithink he went to another law
firm and they kicked him out ofthat law firm.
You know, but it's at the sametime I had another friend at
work and I was like we're soglad he's not here, because that
would put us in an ethicaldilemma.
Do we want to keep working fora company that encourages this
type of behavior?
You know, and in all companiesyou can dig deep enough to find
something you don't like aboutthem that you have to say okay,
(24:39):
where's my limit to howethically bad this company is
compared to what I want to dofor a living?
But I can imagine apharmaceutical.
I'll put everybody who here inthe front is going to give you
some shit to complain about.
Guest (24:52):
Well, I mean, there's a lot of propaganda that goes in
to during in these companies.
As a worker, you don't know howmany times have they put on an
auditorium when someone comes upand says I have this disease.
What you're doing is veryimportant, honestly it is, but
there's a price to that, right?
Someone's got to pay for you toget that medication right.
(25:14):
So it's really just weird andit's really off-putting.
It was very off-putting for me.
Why?
Because a lot of theseadvocates were white.
They're all white and they allhave, like, good jobs, right.
One of the small startups it wasa hearing company.
So we're doing gene therapy inthe ear, right, and it was
(25:40):
really for the first indicationsthat we were working on was one
was for a protein that helpsthe hairs in your coltia grow,
so those vibrate from the motion, the whole.
Whatever Not getting earanatomy right here.
So a lot of these.
And also you got to realize alot of these therapies that,
(26:03):
especially the rare disease whenyou start hearing rare disease
deal with children, right.
So for this therapy it had tobe administered to a child.
That was usually like sixmonths.
You know like, oh, they havethis condition, blah, blah, blah
, blah.
Or you know so the parent ismaking the decision is do I want
(26:24):
my child deaf or do I want tospend a million dollars?
An ear to, yeah, to, you know,effectively cure this.
We'll just say that becauseit's a little more complicated.
The people that came to us andthe patients were all older,
(26:45):
they're all white, they all hadgood jobs and were like oh yeah,
I'm a lawyer, I'm reallyinterested in this.
You know, I was like what the?
You never see anyone like us.
And I will say there's this onecompany I work, I worked for,
who made a clotting factor, forI think it was like factor eight
or something like that, youknow, for hemophilia.
(27:06):
Hemophilia is you get cut,you're not going to stop eating
because you're lacking some ofthe clotting factors.
So they made this clottingfactor and the way they framed
this donation to Senegal waswe're donating a million units
to Senegal for children who havehemophilia.
When you know me being on thelittle technical side of it, I
(27:28):
understood what that million ismeant and it was only like maybe
a few hundred doses.
It was nothing at all.
They sent a million unitsbecause it sounded better.
Raul Lopez (27:42):
Right.
Guest (27:44):
But they're all doing it one time though.
Yeah, so you're giving these,these, these children who have
hemophilia and Senegal clottingfactor, like, oh sweet, I can go
play, I don't have to worryabout getting bruised and stuff
like that, and then it's allgone.
Yeah, right.
Raul Lopez (28:02):
This is kind of how you deal with a lot of
corporations.
When they start donating, youhave to kind of read deeper into
what they're donating and like,lots of times you know you see
different companies you work atwhere they're like, oh you know,
send some portion of yourpaycheck or donate some time for
this thing, and then they put abig blessing.
We raised a million dollarsLike well, the company didn't
spend a million dollars to gosend out a donation to some
(28:23):
cause.
They're doing it.
I'm already used to work for aretail company years ago in high
school and they were forThanksgiving.
They were like we gave out10,000 pounds of pasta that they
didn't and I'm like, oh, that'scool.
And then you look, I look atthe bags that we're selling.
It's the same bags of pasta andI was like each one is like two
pounds and they're like 50cents a piece.
I was like when I did them out,like I think they sent like
(28:44):
$2,000 worth of pasta and it'slike it just sounds better when
you pick out that specific unit.
Yeah, and so when you'reworking in your gang in here in
biotech, you know how do youObviously you're outnumbered
unit your minority in it ofitself?
And how does one get to move upin those companies to actually
(29:06):
start making a difference?
Guest (29:07):
I will say it's getting better.
I'll just go to put that outthe front.
There are a lot more brownfaces and black faces and queer
faces and LBGQ faces out there,and now I think it's something
that the companies arerecognizing, they need to like,
move towards.
Just because you're, how muchtalent are you missing out at?
Yeah, you do stuff right.
(29:28):
Uh, that's like it was.
Like, uh, amazon made analgorithm based on their past
applications and they realizedthis algorithm that was helping
them with recruiting wasexcluding males.
I mean, it was excludingfemales.
Why?
Because all the applicantsbefore were pretty much male,
right, but anyway.
So there are a whole lot moreof people who look like us.
(29:50):
Good, but earlier on my career,when I was in manufacturing, I
literally had someone in uppermanagement sit me down and say
you're not going to do anythingbecause of the way you look.
And I was dressed in a polo andslacks and I was working on the
manufacturing floor, which yourbuddy suited up.
You have a.
You have gowning head to toe toprotect the drugs from you,
(30:12):
right, uh, for environmentalcontrol.
So I was like I'm justprofessionally especially over
dressed for the position that Iam in.
Uh, because I'm learning backthere, you know, in a coat
pretty much, um, so it was thatreally pissed me off, uh, and I
(30:32):
was like yeah, yeah, thanks.
Raul Lopez (30:34):
And I see how it was .
It was that a like, like, uh, ahelpful suggestion.
Or was he kind of like being ahater, like was he?
Was he I?
Guest (30:41):
don't know, I still follows me to this day of like.
Well, I was wearing a poloshirt and I was wearing khakis.
My hair wasn't done becauseyou're not supposed to have be
wearing cosmetics back there, soI'm like what I was just really
just speechless about it.
Raul Lopez (30:56):
It happens sometimes , I think sometimes we deal with
stuff where, especially whenyou're brown skin, you know,
when you're a Latino, you, you,sometimes you're in the middle
between, um, no, especially whenI moved to Texas, you know a
lot of people that were races,weren't races towards Latinos.
You know what I mean.
They were black races, but theywere cool with Latinos you guys
are all right.
They're pretty much.
(31:17):
You know what I mean.
I didn't want to say it, butthat's how they act.
You know what I mean, yeah, andso you get put in certain
situations where you're justkind of like whatever and this
in all different levels, andyou'll hear some things where
you're just like that was kindof messed up, like why did you
say something like that?
And you know they don't realizethat you're not necessarily
approving of it, and so I was inat work and it was after the
Supreme court made gay marriagelegal in the United States and
(31:41):
I'm like we just I forgot whatevent was going on, but we just
kind of an event.
And then I have my there'sthese two guys on my job and one
of them makes a comment aboutyou know, did you hear what's
going on?
And this high level executivefrom our company was like, yeah,
I know this country's going toshit.
You know what I mean and I'mjust kind of like whoa you, you,
(32:03):
you really fired a few LGBTQpeople and work with them and
rely on them and I'm like, okay.
And then and that's kind of forme when I started realizing,
yeah, I can go to work and I canmeet people and be cool with
people, but I still always feltlike there was going to be
something dividing me fromcertain people you know what I
(32:24):
mean Like there was still alevel of I can't necessarily put
down my guard, no matter whereI am, because I don't know what
they're saying about me when I,when I leave the room.
Guest (32:30):
Yeah, and you know, at that same company all, all upper
management was white, everyonejust white up, you know above
like supervisor level.
Raul Lopez (32:40):
And it's funny because you go to a lot of
companies, a lot of companieswill.
You know the company I work fornow and I really appreciate
some of the stuff they do whenit comes to diversity and
inclusion that they post data on.
You know, these are aredemographics at work.
This is the age group, this isthe colors, this is the sexes,
(33:00):
this is the people who identifyas LGBTQ, you know, and stuff
like that, and they're very openabout saying we're doing a good
job, but we're not doing asgreat of a job in the executive
level, because a lot ofcompanies will brag oh, we are
very diverse from this leveldown.
You know, when you startlooking into the executives, the
directors, the people runningit, nice, and it's the same
(33:24):
white men on the top usually.
Guest (33:26):
So I think that is a tale of the time of systematic
racism, and it's it's.
I think we will connect thedots later.
Yeah, it all comes down toeducation, to my opinion, right.
We weren't allowed much varyingeducation because of systematic
(33:47):
racism.
So therefore, how can you havesomeone in those positions at
this time when our generation,even our parents' generation,
didn't have access to the kindof education a lot of these kids
have now?
It will change in the future,kotu will change.
It's just we're dealing withthose aftershocks, I guess, of
systematic racism, even thoughit is still here today, but it's
(34:09):
going to take time.
Raul Lopez (34:11):
We can go through 10 episodes just on this, yeah
it's wild.
Guest (34:16):
But yeah, yeah.
So you know, I think ChristianPonce had hit it on the head of
well, I think he could havetaken a little deeper.
Where I want to go is that likehey, look nice, right.
Yeah, you know you can beyourself doesn't mean you're
going to get the job right.
So I went from looking nice toalso acting a certain way.
(34:38):
There's work me and thenthere's not at work.
Raul Lopez (34:44):
Yeah, we talked a little bit about code switching
with my interview with Peter.
And I actually posted a videoabout it yesterday, quick, where
he talked about it, and we alsowent a little bit more deep,
more in depth, with Christianand David, where we talked about
code switching, but codeswitching essentially being, you
know, switching how you speakand how you act in any type of
(35:05):
situation Based on who youraudience is.
Guest (35:08):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Raul Lopez (35:09):
So for a lot of us in our culture, you know, oh,
you're talking white.
It's kind of you know peopletell you, oh, why do you talk so
white?
You know what I mean.
It's like well, no, and thenthere's no other time to be
speaking.
You know, in certain manner, toseem white, but you know, even
for me it was getting rid of myRhode Island accent.
You know like talking andtalking like I'm from Texas.
(35:29):
Yeah, exactly you know, like notcoming around and talking to my
house like this and saying I'mgoing to go to work on.
You know, I got rid of thatearly on Cause I knew that was
going to be detrimental to me injob interviews.
You know, I wasn't going to beable to come and speak my normal
way, that I've been raised tospeak, you know, cause I'd lose.
I'd lose work.
You know I'm already.
(35:50):
I was already worried about myname cause I can't hide Raul
Lopez, I can't pretend.
You know, I've always thoughtmaybe I should put Paul Lopes On
some of my interviews and say Ihad a typo, until I got the
interview.
Guest (36:03):
Portuguese.
Raul Lopez (36:04):
Yeah, portuguese or something.
Yeah, exactly.
But you know I was.
But these were all the things Ihad to think about and I'm like
how many job interviews am Imissing out now?
And I think things are a littlebetter now cause it's all
algorithmic computers that arereading the, the information on
your resume for a lot ofrecruiters.
Guest (36:23):
There's a lot of companies out there that claim
they're doing blind hiring yeah.
Raul Lopez (36:27):
You know, and so you know, like I've noticed, so
like you know, just to kind ofput it out there you know, one
thing I always do is I copy my.
When I get the job, I copy myjob title for the for the job
they give me and I put it righton my resume and that has all
the keywords that they wereusing.
And I just keep recycling, I usethe same things and I show up
and I've noticed that I startedpopping up on more recruiters
(36:48):
searches and I'm getting calledby more recruiters because all
those key words are there and Idon't have to think about it.
Guest (36:53):
Yeah, exactly, I mean also you gotta think of the day
they they do someone to do thework right.
Raul Lopez (36:57):
Yeah.
Guest (37:00):
It's like a high-five person.
You know, there's a at one ofthe companies I worked for.
It was a small startup and Iwas looking over the lab, right.
So I had a really goodrelationship with the people who
were the technical service.
(37:21):
Right, they're the one'schanging out like L and two
tanks for some of the freezerswhere we keep ourselves.
They're the ones like cleaningsome stuff, other ones like
moving lab benches, movingequipment, stocking the
inventory with common used, likelab consumables, like pipettes
and things that people use.
Right, all black, all black,right.
(37:42):
So we kind of could bond on the, the fact that we weren't white
, like in the company, right,yeah, so it was pretty hilarious
because I got this one packagethat I brought up from the
loading dock and it had ouraddress on it, our floor and
suite number, but I didn't knowthis name and it was all the way
(38:07):
to the punchline.
But but then I was like hey, doyou to the, to the technical
guys, who was black, and he waslike.
I was like, do you know thisperson?
He was like no one's stayinghigh and no one named Laquanda
at this place.
That was like, oh, my God, like, ok cool.
Raul Lopez (38:28):
No, it's funny because you go to a different
job and you don't, you'llrecognize and you'll see certain
systemic we talk systemicracism things that I don't think
nobody really recognized itexcept for the people in those
positions.
You know what I mean.
Like, I worked at a job wherewe started realizing the person
they keep putting into beingresponsible for stocking and
storage of, like the computerequipment, the physical labor
(38:51):
aspect, because they're gettingthe computers, lifting it up,
putting it down.
You know it was physical, Wasalways a black guy, it was.
You know we were like hold on,this is the fourth black guy in
a row now that they put in thatposition.
You know, and it's.
You know, you're caught in aposition of like, do we make a
fuss about it or do we not?
Or do we just keep working andhope just to get out of there?
(39:14):
You know what I mean.
And it sucks sometimes, youknow, and especially when you
hear stories of people who haveactually fought racism at work
and failed.
Yeah, exactly right.
And it's like oh, now they dothat, now they're blacklisted
and they have to leave.
You know, and I have friendswho were fought in a particular
job that I worked at, that Ifought the system and their only
(39:35):
option was to gracefully bowout with a nice little exit
package and pretend none of itever happened.
You know what I?
Guest (39:42):
mean that goes with sexual harassment.
Yeah, sexual harassment andthings like that too, and it
comes down to if you're afull-time employee or you're a
contractor as well.
There's a contractor who youknow you commonly refer to in
history as a temp and they'reworked through a third-party
company.
They actually are work and paidby a third-party company.
The company pays that.
(40:03):
The biotech company or farmcompany pays that company to
staff them with people, right?
This one young woman, she wasdoing something on a bioreactor
and she was bent over liketrying to do a connection or
whatever.
It was a guy, he was a creep.
I hate this dude anyway.
He came up to her like,dry-humped her from behind.
(40:24):
I guess who got?
Who got recommended?
The young woman who wascontractor got let go.
Yeah, total wild shit.
Like that happens all the time,man, and you know.
Going back to your question ofyou know how do you get around.
You know just the racism andsexism and everything like to
(40:44):
move up Because of back to codeswitching and you also have to
live with what you just said,sometimes of like, what do I do?
Do I just turn the other way,self-preservation kind of thing,
right?
Do I raise something A lot ofcompanies are doing like
anonymous tips, things like that, and but you know I really
haven't seen anything getresolved through that before.
(41:05):
So it might work, it might not.
I just haven't seen it.
Raul Lopez (41:08):
It's so quiet on the results.
Yeah, you know, one of thethings you wish it would be that
these diversity, equity andinclusion departments would have
transparency on the results oncertain things.
They don't have to name thingsbut just say a complaint was
given about this and it wasfixed.
Obviously they won't, becausethey don't want to call out the
(41:29):
bad stuff but we never know ifit's actually working or not.
You know you can have anonymousthings but you'll hear and
that's just companies I work, Imean I have friends in all
overpaces and differentcompanies that work that you
know in your histories about ahigh level executive that was
couldn't keep a female secretary.
They had to eventually switchit only to male secretaries Well
(41:52):
, assistants, not secretaries.
But you know the state of thesentence had to be all male
because they were kept gettingsexually harassed and they
weren't able to keep them.
You know, and then you're likewell, why didn't you fix the
problem instead of justreplacing it with a different
solution?
You know it's a so yeah, no,it's kind of wild and for a lot
(42:12):
of times for us we will you lookback at, like our parents and
something they had to deal with,especially in Texas, you know,
and the way your parents grew up, different from where you grew
up.
Their grandparents grew upespecially in Texas, where a lot
of people who spoke Spanish orlooked Mexicans weren't given
jobs.
So they raised their kids tonot speaking Spanish not, you
(42:35):
know, don't have an accentbecause they were parents trying
to protect them from not beingable to get a job.
You know they didn't want them.
So you have a big generation ofMexican-Americans who don't
speak Spanish, don't have anaccent, probably have very
angle-sized names, because theirparents were like we aren't
gonna let you suffer what wesuffer.
And so sometimes you suck it upand you go in there and hope
that you get in high enough tothe point where you could be
(42:57):
vocal about things withoutrisking yourself.
To an extent you know what Imean Like, yeah, now you know
when you get to a position whereyou're high enough, if you're
vocal at a job, you're probablynot gonna be out of work for too
long if something bad happenedat that job.
You know because of yourexperience, you know and I think
sometimes we need to, we don'tget that that we need to wait
(43:19):
until our experience is highenough to be able to stand up
sometimes and that's kind of thehard part, you know.
Guest (43:26):
And that's exactly kind of what I did.
I kept my nose to thegrindstone and gained these
skills.
Make sure I was updating myresume and my CV appropriately
to highlight these big terms,these big operations that I was
essentially fluid in right andworked my way that way.
So you know, going back to myjob history, I was in that pilot
(43:48):
plant that I went back toanother pilot plant for gene
therapy, different company,which was a larger company, and
I hated that because they hiredme at a very low level but I
needed to get out of my othercompany because they were
cutting programs and it wasn'tgonna go anywhere.
So you know, I went to thisbigger company but that wasn't
(44:09):
gonna go anywhere because of thebig companies.
It takes a lot of time to go upthe ladder because there's so
many people, there's so manyrungs and there's yeah, there's
so many rungs.
There's not a lot of headspacethere.
So the people who really likethose kind of companies are just
kind of like I like doing mything.
I'm okay making this money fora while, cause you're only gonna
(44:32):
get maybe 3% raise every yearif that when you switch
positions you can maybe get like15, 20.
Raul Lopez (44:40):
You know, if you do it correctly, right, and when
you leave, another thing.
So you bring up the points,just kind of always like
throwing in some tips that we,when we start talking about
stuff, that people listening.
But yeah, you know, staying inyour position if you get raises
you know cause not everybodygets raises.
You know it's usually reallyminimal.
If you move up in a positionwithin a company, it's usually,
you know, 10%, something likethat, really nice.
(45:00):
But if you leave from onecompany to another company, it's
always 20, 30%, depending onwhat you're pushing for.
You know what I mean.
And so the jump is alwayshigher leaving.
And for a company it's alwayscheaper to keep someone which is
something a lot of companiesdon't understand where they're
willing to let you hang on thehook for a while in hopes that
(45:20):
you'll get the position, andthen you leave and then they're
stuck trying to figure out who'sgonna fill in that position and
it takes six months to get someof the backfill.
Yeah, at least yeah, and evenwhen they get them, it takes
them a year or two beforethey're in a position to
understand it the way you did it, or, if ever.
Guest (45:33):
Yeah, exactly.
Raul Lopez (45:33):
So yeah, so lots.
I mean there's something.
This is just a corporate issuewhere a lot of companies don't
realize that, and it's a reasonwhy I've left, you know, and now
I'm more of like the threeyears, I'm moving up, moving up.
Guest (45:47):
Yeah.
So, yeah, I totally get that Inmy career.
Now I'm looking to cruise.
I'm making a good amount ofmoney and when you get to the
like, the VP level, like itreally starts bleeding into your
life.
Like I've had VPs that Ireported to directly and they're
all day, all night on theirphone, the computer, doing stuff
.
Right, I don't want that.
I'm starting to hit cruise mode, making really good money for
(46:11):
what I do.
Yeah, and I'm fine with itright now.
Right, but to get to this level,yeah, exactly, it was, honestly
, the basis of it was codeswitching.
The only thing you're talkingto what to say, how to act,
speed a different person,honestly, and it sucks.
It's a head fuck, honestly.
Yeah, but hey, I want to beable to do things.
(46:36):
I want to be able to helppeople who look like me, but you
have to have money to do that.
Yeah, so, right now, I've beenthat stage of life of building
capital Still, I'm my upper 30snow but still building.
That didn't see what we coulddo, right, but yeah, to get to
(46:59):
where I am now as coachswitching, it was stay at a job
for a year or two and then moveit to another one, because
that's how you do make the largeraise.
I doubled my salary in fouryears.
Yeah same thing.
Raul Lopez (47:13):
I mean I, in the last five years I've doubled my
salary, More than double mysalary.
Yeah, I mean, it's just, andall I did was switch shop switch
.
You know what?
I mean and being open tolistening.
You know, the one of the thingstoo is like recruiters would
call me and now I'm like okay,let me hear what you got to say.
You know what I mean.
(47:34):
Like before I was like oh, I'veonly been here for like a year.
Guest (47:37):
I don't want my resume to look bad after a while I was
like I don't care, I don't care,so I don't care anymore.
They're gonna take a chance onyou.
Raul Lopez (47:42):
Yeah, you know what I mean?
Cause we were raised back inthings like well, if you don't
show that you've been with acompany and you weren't loyal
for a long time, they're goingto wonder why?
Yeah, and now it's like theydon't care.
They don't care, and so I thinkthat's the reason why I'm loyal
to you.
I mean, I'm loyal to you aslong as you're loyal to me.
Yeah, exactly Right, you knowit's a two way street and you
know when we do, when they doall this stuff like diversity,
equity and inclusion they dotalks about.
(48:09):
You know, you know, you know,you know, you know, you know you
know, you know, you know, youknow, you know, you know, you
know, you know, you know, youknow they do talks about the age
difference and the differentgenerations and their mentality,
and I think we're kind of inthe middle where we're kind of
more of the more open to youknow we can stay loyal, but
(48:31):
we're also looking to move outand improve, as opposed to the
old generation that was likewe're sticking here for the next
25 years and the newergeneration that are just like
nah, I just you have to hit myspot that if I'm not happy
working here, I'm not going towork here.
Yeah, exactly, and I think it'sgoing to go more of that route
and companies are going to startrealizing that they need to
have happy, co happy employeesfor them to stay.
Guest (48:52):
Yeah, the biotech pharma industry.
You see that in compensation isthat you know up to I want to
say my level.
To the director level, you're ahired gun.
You're brought in there to do ajob, more or less.
So if biotech, I mean thestart-ups, and that's that's why
(49:14):
I got out of there I'm readynot to try to do a lot of stuff
and do a lot of things that areoutside my role and I want to be
focused now.
But in general, I will say justto generalize, it is that up to
the director level, you're ahired gun.
You brought in to do one thing,you're brought to do this role.
Who has these discreteresponsibilities, blah, blah,
blah, and that's reflected insalary pay.
(49:36):
Right Now, when you startgetting into, like the VP, like
the C level kind of thing, it'sa lot about equity in the
company, like stocks, rsu'soptions, things like that.
A lot of their, their deals,their salary has greater than
(49:58):
mine, but it's not as big of agap for me from like levels
below me, you know.
So what that is is for them tostay with the company because
these things invest over years.
Right, like you, if you, if aVP signs on, you know they're
getting this stock equity plan,they're getting all these RSU's,
(50:19):
but they got to be on for two,three years before they can even
cash them out, right?
So hopefully the stock is stilldoing well, yeah, but so what
that does is create theincentive for them to stay and
make it succeed, right?
So that's what I was going tosay.
Raul Lopez (50:35):
So the way you're putting it in is, when you get
to anything below this level,you know you're working for the
position.
Everything above that level,you're working to improve the
company.
Guest (50:45):
Yeah, exactly.
But you know that comes withwork life balance stuff, things
like that.
And right now I come home and Iturn off my workflow right,
turn on my computer and that'sit.
Raul Lopez (50:57):
Yeah.
Guest (50:58):
If you really really need me or if there's production
going on that I got to lookafter, or working with someone
in Europe.
Yeah, I'm going to have mypersonal phone on, or I'll have
my work phone on, or somethingthat somebody's going to hold me
Right.
There are little concessions,but I think that's specific to
my role, what I do.
But whatever I have directreports, I always encourage them
(51:19):
just to disconnect because it'snot worth it Right.
Raul Lopez (51:25):
And the thing, too, that people don't understand is
that if you don't disconnect,someone's going to take
advantage of that.
You're doing it, you know.
There will be that one personthat clocks out at five and
they're done.
And there will be that personthat works to seven or eight
thinking, oh, it's going to helpme improve.
There's just going to be a lotof times that I've seen there's
another manager is takingadvantage of you and letting you
do that extra work to benefitthem as opposed to benefiting
(51:46):
yourself.
You know what I mean.
Really, it's a fight foryourself.
You have to be selfish.
You need to be able to be vocalabout what you want and be able
to come in there.
That's something that's takenme a long time to learn.
Yeah, you know that I didn'tcome in there thinking, you know
I, I was never going to comework, work, work.
They're going to see how good Iam.
I've never had a bad review,you know what I mean.
Like that'll be shit.
(52:08):
Yeah, and I was like I was like,why, why?
Why am I such a great employeein all these reviews but
nobody's promoting me?
It was like, well, and evenwhen I asked I'm just being led,
you know, like a horse with acarrot.
You know what I mean.
And it's like I think about oneof my last jobs at law firm
that I had.
I was like if I hadn't movedand left to where I am now, I'd
(52:28):
probably still be barelytouching six figures, if I'm
lucky.
You know, even if they hadpromoted me, you know, give me a
promotion with like a 10%increase and solely like I might
have just been breaking, youknow, breaking that.
And then now I think I make toomuch, that they can't afford me
.
Yeah, so it's like, but I haveto be brave and I have to be
selfish enough to take those 10,those risks and say I'm going
(52:51):
to go to another company and trysomething different.
Guest (52:54):
Yeah, and I think you know it's at least for myself
when I'm in management role.
You know I I'm trying to lookfor people who are good
individuals, people who are goodindividual contributors and
good managers.
And it comes down to what extrathings because I do think extra
things you take on can help inthe long run yeah, like to make
the biotech, pharma industryjust to pick that, because it's
(53:18):
way different right To go fromlike an associate role to like a
senior role or an managementrole.
You got to show that you canmanage right, yeah, and then you
have to be able to displaythose, those competencies.
Raul Lopez (53:34):
And just to clarify, I wasn't trying to say never do
it.
There's always going to be asituation where you need to come
in.
Oh, absolutely.
You're going to be a nightwhere you're going to work till
two in the morning gettingsomething done because you need
to get this done, because it'sgoing to cost, you know, your
job if you don't get it done,but it's just.
Guest (53:46):
You know there's people that go in there and to get
abused, yeah, and there's noadvocate for themselves and
they're just letting themselvesdo individual contributor stuff.
You know, if you want to dosomething extra, you got to do
something that's above yourlevel managing something right.
And you know there's a lot oftimes it just comes down to luck
, honestly, and being able toseize the opportunity which I
(54:07):
think we both talked about withmoving to different companies
and things like that.
I think that was actually aidedby the market where there was
very low interest rates.
So there's a lot of free money,essentially right.
So a lot of venture capital isa pouring millions on it.
Why?
Because I can afford it now,because money is not costing
them a whole lot, right, theycan take up that risk.
Raul Lopez (54:29):
And on top of that, it's not even just, you know,
being willing to seize theopportunity, but also
recognizing when the well is dry.
Guest (54:38):
Exactly, you got to recognize the opportunity.
Raul Lopez (54:40):
You got to recognize that I need to start looking
for opportunities.
You know you got to startrecognizing okay, I just killed
six years of my life at this joband I've asked to be promoted
three times and nothing'shappening.
You know I got to start lookingand don't even have to wait
five years.
You know what I mean.
Like start giving yourself aplan and say this is what I
expect, my career, and I thinkthat's a lot of people don't do
when they start their job.
They're just happy they have ajob.
They don't come in and they saywhere do I?
(55:01):
You know they tell you this.
This is their interview questionand I've never been asked an
interview question.
Usually you hardly ever getasked that in a real life.
Where do you see yourself infive years?
You know, but that's reallywhat you should be thinking
about.
Where do you see yourself infive years?
What do you want to be?
Are you looking to move up orare you looking to get out and
do something better?
Or are you just trying tocruise like the next five years?
Yeah, exactly.
Guest (55:21):
And I think that's a good thing, yeah, recognizing it.
And, you know, I thinkspecifically to my situation,
especially within the last likefive years or so.
I told my wife this, and thenher parents, because we always
talk about it.
Right, it's like I go to thehighest bidder.
I had recruiters calling meevery week and I'm like, yeah,
I'll, I'll bail it here.
(55:42):
I've been here for six months.
If you guys give me more money,yeah, because of these
companies.
These small startup companiesat the time needed someone who
knew what they were doing tocome in and drive stuff Right,
to come in to say, to take itfrom R and D through development
into the clinic as fast aspossible.
Raul Lopez (56:03):
And the nice thing with startups is sometimes
they're so small that you canfill in many hats, that you can
learn a lot of different thingsExactly.
You could learn a lot more, alot more broader stuff and
different things that you'll beable to use in your career, but
there's stuff that you might nothave done specifically.
You know what I mean.
And in small startups, hopingthey do well and they succeed,
(56:25):
you know, when you're thereearly, you can make a bigger
impact.
Guest (56:28):
Yeah, especially if you get, especially you have a lot
of equity with the first startup.
You know that will definitelyinflate, but, um, yeah, I mean
working with small startups.
It did, you know, give meopportunities to expand my skill
set to things that I had adouble four haven't really seen.
But it also gives you access tothe C level, like CEO, like.
We have meetings with the CEO,like every week because it's
(56:50):
such a small company, right, andyou get to see how the scissors
are made at that level and whatit beats at least to what
you're privy to, right.
So that's, that's a definitelya big advantage of of that is
being able to just see how youthink in a bigger picture,
rather than so narrow scope ofwhat is in front of you.
(57:11):
You know, um, but yeah,honestly, the market is
tightened up a little, obviouslywith inflation.
Not just rates are up.
It's not that many things outthere, um, you know, I did see
some opportunity recently, um,and I knew I wasn't going to be
able to negotiate as hardbecause the market's a little
(57:35):
bit drier now, um, so, but also,thankfully, good timing.
I'm ready to, I was ready to getout of the startup stuff.
I've already dealt with.
All that worked my ass off.
I'm just tired.
So back in I'm in a big farmernow, just a cog in a wheel and
(57:56):
really just going in doing onething, doing it well and going
home and making even more moneythan I was making before.
It's win-win, yeah, honestly.
Uh, for just the stage I'm atwhat I want to do right now and
I'm content so far.
Raul Lopez (58:13):
Yeah, and I mean one of the things that keep coming
up through all our discussionswith all the people that I'm
interviewing is being open torisk, open to taking a risk and
taking, you know, jumping on anopportunity when you see it.
And sometimes I mean it was thesame thing.
I had conversation with my wife, you know, years ago.
I'm like I'm stagnant, I'm notgoing anywhere, like I need to
take a look at jobs that aredifferent than what I've been
(58:33):
doing to learn somethingdifferent.
That'll be, you know, help meout.
So I moved, I took my job and Igot.
I was a consultant for a SierraM company and I left that job
they're cool company, I reallyliked them a startup from the UK
and I was doing so muchdifferent things.
You know, project management,consulting uh, I was kind of a
(58:53):
business analyst while being aproject manager.
So I was doing so much littlethings and then literally like
within three years, you know, um, and it was nice to that
company because they kind ofgive you you know, oh, these, if
you do this and this, you cango into this path and this path,
uh, but you know, within threeyears I got called by recruiter
for a job I had now andeverything that I did at my old
(59:14):
job, which was very specific tothe what they needed, plus the
fact that I was able to be aconsultant, do requirements,
manage projects all thatcombined together to help me get
the position I am now.
but being willing to come inthere.
And now I'm in a position whereit's more.
You know I'm in a lot morecontrol than I am with my
specific project, than I everbeen in anything.
(59:35):
You know what I mean.
So, uh, sometimes you have tobe willing to go out there and
try something different and notnot be afraid of change.
Guest (59:43):
Yeah, exactly, it's about what's right for you at the
time.
Um, there's this dude that Iknow he's done it twice.
Is that, you know, as soon as,like he sniffs the company's
about to be bought or somethinghe's out Well, he has kids and
stuff.
You can't, you know you can'tafford that volatility of will I
(01:00:04):
have a job?
Exactly you know, am I going toget laid off on just a separate
stuff like a few months?
You know, then you guys to finda new job.
So you know it's he always allright, started looking, got
something and got there right.
Um, but you know, yeah, starsare volatile or volatile.
Um, definitely ready in my lifefor that stability, focus and
(01:00:25):
everything that I that I havenow, my current roles I can see
it's still pretty new, so I'mfiguring it out, but uh, yeah,
nice man.
Raul Lopez (01:00:33):
Well, I appreciate you taking the time to talk
about your journey and talkabout certain little topics here
and there that will hopefullyhelp out people, uh, and I
really hope to have you back tokind of deep dive into some of
these more specific things.
Guest (01:00:45):
So yeah, let's do another one soon.
Raul Lopez (01:00:47):
Yeah, this is this was fun, so, and this is my
first live one in person withsomeone, so, yeah, this is a
slight difference from being onzoom.
I really appreciate it.
But to everyone else listening,once again, I'd like to thank
you for your support and tuningin and I hope you join us again
next time as we continue to seesuccess in Spanglish.
This is Raul Lopez, and you're listening to how Do
you Say Success in Spanglish.
The path to success isn't easyFor minorities and people of
color.
Many attempt to journey withlittle to no guidance.
Join me as I sit down withindividuals who share their
stories of perseverance so thattogether we can learn how to say
success in spanglish.
What's good me Hente?
(00:30):
Welcome back to how Do you SaySuccess in Spanglish.
This is Raul.
Today we have kind of a verydifferent type of interview.
I have a buddy of mine who's adirector level at a big farmer
company.
How's it going?
Hello, I'm a farmer.
Because of the level of hisposition, he does definitely
(00:52):
want to stay, have someanonymity moving forward, but he
is going to dish out and giveus some good content, I guess.
To start off, tell us a littlebit about yourself.
Guest (01:04):
Yeah, I want to be real so that I feel like this is
allowing me to say what needs tobe said, to put it out of the
open.
I think throughout all ourlives we've had difficulties.
We had to deal with things suchas racism, sexism, a lot of
different stuff.
A lot of companies don't handleit very well and they
(01:26):
especially don't like it whenyou put it out in the open like
that Think Sackler family, butnot that deep right.
But there's a lot of truth tothat.
But I just want to say thatright away.
Raul Lopez (01:43):
Yeah, this isn't going to be something the CIA or
FBI is going to be knocking onour doors to get down.
Guest (01:47):
No, I just want to keep my job.
I don't want to be able to saywhat I want to say and have my
house and stuff.
I got to pay the bills andthat's fine.
Raul Lopez (01:58):
And you know what, sometimes there's stuff that we
need to talk about that we can'tnecessarily talk about for
those same reasons, especiallyin the public sector.
So I really appreciate youtaking the time to be here.
So I guess, to start off, youwork in biotech.
Do you want to tell me a littlebit about what working in
biotech is like?
Guest (02:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I went to school.
I went to BU actually forbiomedical laboratories,
clinical sciences.
I think you actually spoke tosomeone else who did the same
major there.
He's the one that actually kindof put me on into it and you
know I was going through somestruggles in college.
Go back to your first question.
Sorry I skipped over it, but itkind of.
You know, I grew up in Texas.
(02:38):
You know, lower middle class, Iwould say exactly poor, but
there wasn't a lot of money todo other things.
Right, I did go to Montessorischool from kindergarten through
Was it eighth grade?
I think?
Yeah, so it's a littledifferent, a little different
way of teaching and learning andstuff that.
(02:59):
I went to high school and myhigh school was kind of weird.
There's this little subsectionof like white the ones that
developed in that district or inthe school area very rich, very
white, but it was very minority.
I'm very.
That school had really good APclasses we're talking like even
(03:21):
when my sister went therethey're doing like forensics and
stuff like that.
Like my sister dealt withcadavers, nice, so it was.
It's really high school, butyeah.
Raul Lopez (03:29):
Oh man, we couldn't even get like live animals
because we couldn't afford it.
We had to do the digital one,where you look online and you
cut the fake, the fake frog andstuff like that yeah.
But?
But like old old 1999 computer,it wasn't beyond.
Guest (03:47):
But yeah, so you know there's this little subset, this
little section cut out of thatschool.
But it was really really good.
Right, I was number like 80,something like high 80s and
graduating class, and I was thenumber two Hispanic male.
My GPA was 4.7.
So that kind of gives you alook into how competitive that
(04:11):
high school was.
At least that little subsectionwas.
Raul Lopez (04:14):
You know there's there's kids and graduating by
class, you were top 80 and above4.0.
Guest (04:19):
Yeah, Out of a school, entire school.
That was like 5000 kids.
Raul Lopez (04:22):
Holy shit yeah.
Guest (04:25):
So, it was really big right.
So that's kind of wild in thesense that there's this little
section in the school where inhigh school I had to deal with
shootings, stabbings, gangrelated stuff.
Like I talked to my wife, mywife grew up in South Shore,
massachusetts, and kind ofreally, really small town I'm
like hey, do you ever get yourass kicked for wearing the wrong
(04:47):
color T-shirt to school?
Raul Lopez (04:49):
Yeah, yeah, that's happened.
I mean, I was talking to afriend of mine the other day who
started listening to thepodcast and we went to the same
school and she was like you know, even though we went to the
same school, she lived in anicer part of the city we lived
in, compared to like where Igrew up with.
Or my other friend, Persha, whoI interviewed, grew up in, you
know, and I was telling her Iwas like I remember my cousin
Stacy, who was coming home fromschool I think she was about my
(05:11):
daughter's age.
She was like 9, 10, walkingfrom like second or third grade
and while her and her friendswere walking back, a group
jumped out of a car and beat thecrap out of some dude on the
side of the road with a bunch ofbats you know what I mean and
she ran home crying, screaming,like afraid that something
happened to her.
Guest (05:27):
Yeah, that's traumatizing .
Raul Lopez (05:28):
Yeah, like an eight year old and now I have a
daughter who's 10 and I worryabout her taking a bike down my
suburban road by herself withoutme around.
Guest (05:37):
You know how times have changed, right?
Yeah, it's like completelydifferent.
Raul Lopez (05:39):
But growing up like that, you know if you didn't
grow up with it, it's not normal.
Yeah.
Guest (05:45):
I think it's.
I mean we can touch on thislater, but it has a lot to do
with, like the information flow.
Like you're allowed to see a lotmore things now that are going
around, not even just yourimmediate neighborhood but the
world and stuff like that.
So I think that really feedsinto it.
But yeah, so high school waswild and you know what kind of
drove me to science was was Iwas decent at math, I was a
(06:07):
really like science andspecifically towards health
science, my sister special needsso that really pushed me in
that way.
But yeah, so graduated highschool, went to BU and actually
when I was a junior I was reallystruggling right.
Freshman year was fine, totallyfine.
(06:29):
I did all AP classes my juniorand senior year in high school.
So first semester was a cakewalk, real easy.
I'm pretty much I didn't reallytake any of my AP credits just
because I wanted to.
I knew I had to ease into it alittle bit, but after I got past
(06:49):
that it was an exponential bump.
I was like oh, wow, like thisis a lot right.
But I want to say it hamperedme.
But growing up and going throughMontessori school it's a lot of
hands on, it's a lot of toolsthat you have to do things like
when you're dividing stuff,learning division to elementary
(07:09):
school.
You have these blocks and youbreak them up to, you know, put
them into the groups right Toshow your work.
So, going to a auditoriumclassroom style way of learning,
oh it was.
It was rough.
So you know, it was hard toadapt to that.
And then come junior year I wasreally struggling, my grades
(07:31):
were struggling just becausewe're getting into like some
really complicated things.
And you know, I was in theschool of engineering at first.
Everything was reallytheoretical, it was all book
work, all paperwork, and I justwasn't into it.
You know, looking back, I justdidn't like the paperwork and it
really worked against me and Istruggled.
(07:52):
You know, then, on some one ofmy fraternity brothers actually
pointed me towards the MetCollege.
I think you talked to a coupleof other people that went to Met
and listened to others.
Yeah, really good, really lotsof people there, lots of people
of color.
This is designed to, you know,be a night school, right For
(08:14):
people who are working andwhatnot.
So I switched into Met College.
You know, tocque on was abiomedical laboratory, clinical
scientist, stupid, stupid lawmade for no reason, and what it
really was was biotech.
They're teaching you how to docell culture, protein
purification, on a very, verysmall scale and what it meant to
(08:38):
be to have good documentationpractices and things like that.
So it was a lot more hands onand enjoyed it.
But I will say it was veryelementary where I was like, wow
, this is college, like, oh,this is really easy, like you
know, so my grades are great.
Then it was a code go into lab,knock stuff out and leave.
(09:03):
And it was to the point where Iwas helping everyone out with
my buddy I know, if you, we havea friend we can talk about
later, who's not with somebody,your friend from Rhode Island
before.
But yeah, I want name drop, butyeah, so it was like me and him
, we paired up and we justknocked this stuff out, right.
So it was really good.
And then, you know, I was againI'll strongly, didn't know
(09:23):
really what to do with my life,didn't know what this would lead
to.
And fraternity brother reachedout and said, hey, you want a
job.
I was like what are you talkingabout?
And he was like a biogen isactually hiring right now for
the many factories facilities inCambridge, massachusetts,
kendall Square, which is likethe mecca of biotech.
(09:43):
There's so many companies rightthere.
So he was like can you read,can you write?
Can you follow instructions?
I'm like, yeah, he's like, allright, you'll be fine.
So, you know, go to theinterview One of the guys that
was interviewing me.
He's like yeah, you don't worryabout this.
Just, you know, go through themotions and we're going to get
you in there.
Raul Lopez (10:01):
So, that's where I started.
Guest (10:03):
I was really pretty much a glorified dishwasher washing
parts that go to likebioreactors, cleaning
purification skids and stufflike that and a manner that just
had to be documented and makinglike buffers and cell media
things like that.
It was really easy and the thepay that I started out with
(10:25):
because I think it's reallyimportant, because it kind of
puts it everything intoperspective as we go through
this and talk, start talkingabout medication and cost and
things like that and get all theway to the money.
But I started at $40,000.
And you think and that was justin that department there's also
people at my level in thedepartments that were doing the
(10:47):
cell culture, that were growingthe cells, that was, taking that
protein that those cellsproduce, which is the medicine,
and purifying it.
So you're talking about very lowlevel.
You really don't have to beskilled because the idea of it
is that you're followingdirections, like baking a cake
right, using the back of a boxto bake a cake.
That's the general idea of goodmanufacturing practices is to
(11:10):
be able to follow a set ofwritten instructions and be able
to perform it, that you can beable to pluck someone off the
street to a degree not totally,because there are also some
competencies that you need tohave, like being able to read it
right in the other directionsRight, and put them in this, in
this kind of role, and you makeit right.
But what does that do?
That keeps your labor verycheap.
Raul Lopez (11:33):
Yeah, and it's in 40K in Boston is different than
40K and not other.
You know it's a high costliving, so it's really on the
low end for like a Boston job.
Guest (11:44):
I think this data is old, probably by several years now,
but the last article I read isthat the poverty line is 70K in
Boston.
So if you're bringing in lessthan 70K you're in poverty.
So 40K then it was probably alittle closer, but it's
(12:04):
definitely under the povertyline, right.
Of course I had those livingrooms, roommates and stuff like
that.
So our house, we weren't livingin poverty.
Do we go a whole lot?
But yeah, and we're talkingabout, you know, I was a young
kid, I was 21 at the time butthere are people that were
working at that same level, youknow, not really making a whole
(12:25):
lot more.
That were their fifties andstuff like that.
So it's, there's a lot of thingsin play with that.
If you're able to move up, youcan make decent money.
I think what I ended up thereI'll why I entered there.
I was a level two, but when Iwas a level five there, before I
left there it was, I was makingover.
(12:48):
I was making six figures, right, but that was over time.
That was working with holidaypay, which was triple time.
So you can make all right moneyI don't say good money, but you
can make all right money.
But it is a grind.
Raul Lopez (13:02):
Yeah, and just like I said, once again, we put
things in perspective.
You know, 100 K in Boston isvery different than if you do in
100 K and in South Texas orsome other places like that
where you might even go a littlefurther.
Guest (13:14):
Oh yeah, you'll look like .
You look like King.
Yeah, you know, it's funnyright.
Raul Lopez (13:18):
Yeah.
So you know, just to put inperspective, people think it's
six figures, man, I would.
I would kill to get six figures.
Yeah, but we're talking aboutBoston.
Same thing if you're living inlike New York, Los Angeles, San
Francisco.
Yeah exactly those places aredefinitely not going to give you
the same return on that type ofmoney.
That's right.
Continue on.
Guest (13:35):
No, it's, it's a yeah.
So I left there just becausethe that facility got sold off
and I went to a smaller biotechwhich was a gene therapy.
It was more of a startup.
I got out of manufacturing, butI used that knowledge to take
to this, where I was going to apilot plant, which you know, you
(13:56):
have research and development,which those are the ones that
kind of discover more or lessright, or take something that
came out of university and justreproduce it right To say, ok,
yeah, this does work, we canmake this therapy All right, now
let's start putting in the miceand see what it does right.
Yeah, you have those kind ofgroups that run that.
(14:18):
Then you also have like processdevelopment, which really is
taking that really researchstuff that's fresh out of the
university or our discovery, andthen, all right, let's start
making a little bit bigger,let's start seeing how we can
make more of it, tweaking thingsto make it more efficient, to
(14:38):
just help start bringing thecost down a little bit to make
it, etc.
Right.
Then you have, like some peoplecall it like pilot plants, some
, some companies call ittechnical development, which is
really like all right, that'sscience is set Like this is how
you make it.
Now we're going to make itinstead of like one liter at a
time in the bioreactor, we'regoing to make it like 250 liters
(15:03):
of it or 500 liters or 1,000liters of it.
Depends on what you're doingright and that Use a lot of my
knowledge that I had frommanufacturing because you're
starting to get to similar scale, and it was really just like
all right, how am I connectingthis bioreactor?
(15:25):
I need to get it to this pumpto pump it all out into a big
vessel pretty much.
How am I doing that?
All right, well, I know I havethese two big sizes.
I have no these connectionsizes.
I actually need to put it alltogether and write down the
instructions, and that goes intomanufacturing.
That tells them how to recreatewhat we did.
You know that role is was allright.
(15:49):
My boss was very hands on.
I really wasn't going anywhereif I stayed there or it would
take a long time right.
Raul Lopez (16:00):
What made you recognize that you needed to
leave?
Well, they started.
They started cutting everything.
Ok, because a lot of time we'llwork on a job and we're like,
oh, if I keep working, I'll stayhere and I'll move up, I move
up.
And then sometimes it's hard toread the writing on the wall
and say I should jump off.
I was going to jump off thissinking ship before I got there.
I think that's very differentto it's, obviously different to
(16:21):
different industries.
Guest (16:23):
But with the biotech, especially if you're at a small
company like let's take, let'stake, let's take Eli Lilly, for
example, how do they have abunch of stuff on the market?
Right, so they have moneycoming in because they're
selling medication.
Right, they're sellingtherapies.
Startups not so much.
They haven't sold anything yet.
They don't have anything tosell.
They're just trying to figureout If they're selling
(16:46):
medication, right, they're justtrying to figure out if this one
thing they have can't evensniff Making it right, their
first goal is to get into theclinic to do a phase one trial
to see if it's safe.
The goal of the phase one trialis really don't kill anyone.
Yeah, they're with.
(17:06):
The way venture capitalistshave gone now with the scene is
because it takes it these fromdiscovery to the market and
we're talking like 10 years,like a decade, maybe more, maybe
sometimes less, and we'realways trying to speed it up
right, because you want to getto that revenue point.
(17:27):
A lot of venture capitalistsare looking for efficacy in the
phase one trial, so a lot ofcompanies are trying to explain
efficacy, yes, so efficacy ishow?
how does it work?
Right, if you have a diabetesmedication that's supposed to
lower your ins or, you know,control your insulin output, is
(17:47):
it actually controlling?
Is it you know?
Is it not?
So venture capitalists who areinvesting in these usually
starts out private.
Before they go public, do anIPO, they're really saying is it
worth it for me to keep pouringmillions and we're talking
about millions of dollars intothese 50 people that you know to
(18:14):
make this therapy and get ittowards the clinic, I mean
towards commercial, right?
So if you, if it's not reallyefficacy effective in phase one,
now a lot of times things aregetting dropped now like they're
not even making to phase two,which is usually your dosing.
How little do you need?
How much do you need?
Do you need to find that sweetspot within the human body?
(18:36):
Right?
So it's.
Raul Lopez (18:40):
I mean not to get into super, super detailed
regarding the practice ofbiotech, but in essence there's
a lot of potential drugs outthere that could be beneficial,
that are being dropped early onbecause they're not as effective
in the initial stages.
Guest (18:56):
Oh, they're not.
If they're not effective, yeah,they're not going to be
effective.
You can't sell it right, andyou got to keep in mind
especially working in thebiotech industry and especially
working with on the startup side, as well as even if you're
working for a larger companylike a now still clinical.
So most of the things I'm goingto work on and going to touch
(19:19):
are not going to work.
You know it's it's it's goingto be really tough on people
sometimes because they getcaught up in it right.
Raul Lopez (19:28):
I mean right now, with COVID and everything that
happened.
A lot of people have differentperspective when it comes to the
idea of big pharma, essentially, you know what I mean.
People get really like, youknow.
So it's hard sometimes forpeople to realize that there's
people working on something,hoping for it to be successful
and helpful, and then it getsdropped, as opposed to just
(19:50):
seeing the big corporate side ofsays, oh all farmer wants his
money from us which I'm surepartially true, but it is true
but there's still people inthose positions below not making
those big money that areputting their all into these.
Yeah.
Guest (20:06):
Yeah, but that's just, honestly.
The people not making a lot ofmoney in this chain Are the
people where I started outactually physically making the
product, right?
You know all the scientists andengineers.
And funny thing is, throughoutmy career I, you know, I said I
was in engineering school and Igot out of engineering school.
I didn't graduate with anengineering degree.
(20:27):
At one point in my career I wasan engineer Just just from
working in the field andlearning the specifics of what
to do, right.
But you know those people.
They're making good money.
They're making pretty goodmoney, right.
They're making livable wages.
They're making they're able tomake live a comfortable life,
right.
It's probably the reason why itcosts so much, too, right.
(20:49):
Is you know who do you wantdesigning it and being in
control of a clinical trial ofstuff that goes right?
So I, you know, I hear that.
You know what you said aboutthe high cost of pharmaceuticals
, but there is a lot of moneythat goes into it and it is
years.
(21:09):
I think that's a problem that weneed to work through as a
people.
Is you know how do we lower it?
Because it is quite expensive?
But what that does is, I thinkit creates a culture of greed,
right?
Hey look, I brought out theSackler family.
(21:32):
That's pretty hot.
Go, I'm plugging Netflix, rightnow because it was pretty good.
It's called a painkiller.
I think that's very puts itinto perspective a little bit
right.
But I really, when it all comesdown to it, no matter how, if
it even has a barely working,it's going to get cut.
Why?
(21:53):
Because it probably is notgoing to work as well.
When you get to the populationto have to make it a whole big
thing, right, a lot, a lot ofvolume is probably not going to
work, right?
I think Biogen had, withCambridge's controversy about
where they're Alzheimer's drugwhere don't quote me on the
numbers now.
I remember it was somewhat oflike around 30% saw
(22:16):
effectiveness, but also 13% ofpeople had, I think it was 13.
It was around there, I'm goingto say it's around there had
huge complications with theirbrain swelling.
Oh yeah, that's not good.
Yeah, so it's tough right.
And these are the ethicaldilemmas that you get into this
(22:36):
space.
And, being a person that, if Iwas still working on Biogen, how
would I feel about it?
Yeah, because I mean, is theAlzheimer's patient making that
decision?
Yeah, no, they're not.
It's their family member, right?
Raul Lopez (22:51):
You know it brings up a good point.
To me this is just once again alittle bit off topic, but just
as I got older and I've had myown dealing of health issues,
you start weighing the costbenefits of what's the next step
that you want to do to take oncertain medications, certain
procedures to help you moveforward.
You know what I mean.
That's on an individual,personal basis.
Not one point do I put.
Okay, now, which one of that isgoing to make me more
(23:12):
profitable and get me more money?
Yeah, so that's three factorsof will this help?
How effectively will it help?
And then, how much money can wemake so that we can continue
making more medicine?
Yeah, and I think you had.
Guest (23:22):
I mean, if you're going, to the biotech injury out there.
People you're going to come toface with your with some
decision of am I okay doing thisand this?
Raul Lopez (23:35):
is something that comes up.
I mean not just forpharmaceuticals, but you know,
there's times when I look atjobs and they're coming up and
I'm like, oh, this is, oh, theyhave openings for, you know, a
big oil and gas company, or likeCoke industry.
I mean, you're like, whatcompanies do I am?
Am I ethically opposed to?
I mean, when I started workingat one of the jobs, it was
called Bracewell and Giuliani itwas Giuliani and he left like a
(23:57):
year after I started there.
But that was before we gotGiuliani.
We got now.
No, I don't love it.
Yeah, yeah.
So you know he was, he was more, he was more.
You know this is the, the heroof 9-11, giuliani as opposed to
the.
You know Trump's Trumpsupporting Giuliani that he is.
(24:19):
Now that he started getting Ithink he went to another law
firm and they kicked him out ofthat law firm.
You know, but it's at the sametime I had another friend at
work and I was like we're soglad he's not here, because that
would put us in an ethicaldilemma.
Do we want to keep working fora company that encourages this
type of behavior?
You know, and in all companiesyou can dig deep enough to find
something you don't like aboutthem that you have to say okay,
(24:39):
where's my limit to howethically bad this company is
compared to what I want to dofor a living?
But I can imagine apharmaceutical.
I'll put everybody who here inthe front is going to give you
some shit to complain about.
Guest (24:52):
Well, I mean, there's a lot of propaganda that goes in
to during in these companies.
As a worker, you don't know howmany times have they put on an
auditorium when someone comes upand says I have this disease.
What you're doing is veryimportant, honestly it is, but
there's a price to that, right?
Someone's got to pay for you toget that medication right.
(25:14):
So it's really just weird andit's really off-putting.
It was very off-putting for me.
Why?
Because a lot of theseadvocates were white.
They're all white and they allhave, like, good jobs, right.
One of the small startups it wasa hearing company.
So we're doing gene therapy inthe ear, right, and it was
(25:40):
really for the first indicationsthat we were working on was one
was for a protein that helpsthe hairs in your coltia grow,
so those vibrate from the motion, the whole.
Whatever Not getting earanatomy right here.
So a lot of these.
And also you got to realize alot of these therapies that,
(26:03):
especially the rare disease whenyou start hearing rare disease
deal with children, right.
So for this therapy it had tobe administered to a child.
That was usually like sixmonths.
You know like, oh, they havethis condition, blah, blah, blah
, blah.
Or you know so the parent ismaking the decision is do I want
(26:24):
my child deaf or do I want tospend a million dollars?
An ear to, yeah, to, you know,effectively cure this.
We'll just say that becauseit's a little more complicated.
The people that came to us andthe patients were all older,
(26:45):
they're all white, they all hadgood jobs and were like oh yeah,
I'm a lawyer, I'm reallyinterested in this.
You know, I was like what the?
You never see anyone like us.
And I will say there's this onecompany I work, I worked for,
who made a clotting factor, forI think it was like factor eight
or something like that, youknow, for hemophilia.
(27:06):
Hemophilia is you get cut,you're not going to stop eating
because you're lacking some ofthe clotting factors.
So they made this clottingfactor and the way they framed
this donation to Senegal waswe're donating a million units
to Senegal for children who havehemophilia.
When you know me being on thelittle technical side of it, I
(27:28):
understood what that million ismeant and it was only like maybe
a few hundred doses.
It was nothing at all.
They sent a million unitsbecause it sounded better.
Raul Lopez (27:42):
Right.
Guest (27:44):
But they're all doing it one time though.
Yeah, so you're giving these,these, these children who have
hemophilia and Senegal clottingfactor, like, oh sweet, I can go
play, I don't have to worryabout getting bruised and stuff
like that, and then it's allgone.
Yeah, right.
Raul Lopez (28:02):
This is kind of how you deal with a lot of
corporations.
When they start donating, youhave to kind of read deeper into
what they're donating and like,lots of times you know you see
different companies you work atwhere they're like, oh you know,
send some portion of yourpaycheck or donate some time for
this thing, and then they put abig blessing.
We raised a million dollarsLike well, the company didn't
spend a million dollars to gosend out a donation to some
(28:23):
cause.
They're doing it.
I'm already used to work for aretail company years ago in high
school and they were forThanksgiving.
They were like we gave out10,000 pounds of pasta that they
didn't and I'm like, oh, that'scool.
And then you look, I look atthe bags that we're selling.
It's the same bags of pasta andI was like each one is like two
pounds and they're like 50cents a piece.
I was like when I did them out,like I think they sent like
(28:44):
$2,000 worth of pasta and it'slike it just sounds better when
you pick out that specific unit.
Yeah, and so when you'reworking in your gang in here in
biotech, you know how do youObviously you're outnumbered
unit your minority in it ofitself?
And how does one get to move upin those companies to actually
(29:06):
start making a difference?
Guest (29:07):
I will say it's getting better.
I'll just go to put that outthe front.
There are a lot more brownfaces and black faces and queer
faces and LBGQ faces out there,and now I think it's something
that the companies arerecognizing, they need to like,
move towards.
Just because you're, how muchtalent are you missing out at?
Yeah, you do stuff right.
(29:28):
Uh, that's like it was.
Like, uh, amazon made analgorithm based on their past
applications and they realizedthis algorithm that was helping
them with recruiting wasexcluding males.
I mean, it was excludingfemales.
Why?
Because all the applicantsbefore were pretty much male,
right, but anyway.
So there are a whole lot moreof people who look like us.
(29:50):
Good, but earlier on my career,when I was in manufacturing, I
literally had someone in uppermanagement sit me down and say
you're not going to do anythingbecause of the way you look.
And I was dressed in a polo andslacks and I was working on the
manufacturing floor, which yourbuddy suited up.
You have a.
You have gowning head to toe toprotect the drugs from you,
(30:12):
right, uh, for environmentalcontrol.
So I was like I'm justprofessionally especially over
dressed for the position that Iam in.
Uh, because I'm learning backthere, you know, in a coat
pretty much, um, so it was thatreally pissed me off, uh, and I
(30:32):
was like yeah, yeah, thanks.
Raul Lopez (30:34):
And I see how it was .
It was that a like, like, uh, ahelpful suggestion.
Or was he kind of like being ahater, like was he?
Was he I?
Guest (30:41):
don't know, I still follows me to this day of like.
Well, I was wearing a poloshirt and I was wearing khakis.
My hair wasn't done becauseyou're not supposed to have be
wearing cosmetics back there, soI'm like what I was just really
just speechless about it.
Raul Lopez (30:56):
It happens sometimes , I think sometimes we deal with
stuff where, especially whenyou're brown skin, you know,
when you're a Latino, you, you,sometimes you're in the middle
between, um, no, especially whenI moved to Texas, you know a
lot of people that were races,weren't races towards Latinos.
You know what I mean.
They were black races, but theywere cool with Latinos you guys
are all right.
They're pretty much.
(31:17):
You know what I mean.
I didn't want to say it, butthat's how they act.
You know what I mean, yeah, andso you get put in certain
situations where you're justkind of like whatever and this
in all different levels, andyou'll hear some things where
you're just like that was kindof messed up, like why did you
say something like that?
And you know they don't realizethat you're not necessarily
approving of it, and so I was inat work and it was after the
Supreme court made gay marriagelegal in the United States and
(31:41):
I'm like we just I forgot whatevent was going on, but we just
kind of an event.
And then I have my there'sthese two guys on my job and one
of them makes a comment aboutyou know, did you hear what's
going on?
And this high level executivefrom our company was like, yeah,
I know this country's going toshit.
You know what I mean and I'mjust kind of like whoa you, you,
(32:03):
you really fired a few LGBTQpeople and work with them and
rely on them and I'm like, okay.
And then and that's kind of forme when I started realizing,
yeah, I can go to work and I canmeet people and be cool with
people, but I still always feltlike there was going to be
something dividing me fromcertain people you know what I
(32:24):
mean Like there was still alevel of I can't necessarily put
down my guard, no matter whereI am, because I don't know what
they're saying about me when I,when I leave the room.
Guest (32:30):
Yeah, and you know, at that same company all, all upper
management was white, everyonejust white up, you know above
like supervisor level.
Raul Lopez (32:40):
And it's funny because you go to a lot of
companies, a lot of companieswill.
You know the company I work fornow and I really appreciate
some of the stuff they do whenit comes to diversity and
inclusion that they post data on.
You know, these are aredemographics at work.
This is the age group, this isthe colors, this is the sexes,
(33:00):
this is the people who identifyas LGBTQ, you know, and stuff
like that, and they're very openabout saying we're doing a good
job, but we're not doing asgreat of a job in the executive
level, because a lot ofcompanies will brag oh, we are
very diverse from this leveldown.
You know, when you startlooking into the executives, the
directors, the people runningit, nice, and it's the same
(33:24):
white men on the top usually.
Guest (33:26):
So I think that is a tale of the time of systematic
racism, and it's it's.
I think we will connect thedots later.
Yeah, it all comes down toeducation, to my opinion, right.
We weren't allowed much varyingeducation because of systematic
(33:47):
racism.
So therefore, how can you havesomeone in those positions at
this time when our generation,even our parents' generation,
didn't have access to the kindof education a lot of these kids
have now?
It will change in the future,kotu will change.
It's just we're dealing withthose aftershocks, I guess, of
systematic racism, even thoughit is still here today, but it's
(34:09):
going to take time.
Raul Lopez (34:11):
We can go through 10 episodes just on this, yeah
it's wild.
Guest (34:16):
But yeah, yeah.
So you know, I think ChristianPonce had hit it on the head of
well, I think he could havetaken a little deeper.
Where I want to go is that likehey, look nice, right.
Yeah, you know you can beyourself doesn't mean you're
going to get the job right.
So I went from looking nice toalso acting a certain way.
(34:38):
There's work me and thenthere's not at work.
Raul Lopez (34:44):
Yeah, we talked a little bit about code switching
with my interview with Peter.
And I actually posted a videoabout it yesterday, quick, where
he talked about it, and we alsowent a little bit more deep,
more in depth, with Christianand David, where we talked about
code switching, but codeswitching essentially being, you
know, switching how you speakand how you act in any type of
(35:05):
situation Based on who youraudience is.
Guest (35:08):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Raul Lopez (35:09):
So for a lot of us in our culture, you know, oh,
you're talking white.
It's kind of you know peopletell you, oh, why do you talk so
white?
You know what I mean.
It's like well, no, and thenthere's no other time to be
speaking.
You know, in certain manner, toseem white, but you know, even
for me it was getting rid of myRhode Island accent.
You know like talking andtalking like I'm from Texas.
(35:29):
Yeah, exactly you know, like notcoming around and talking to my
house like this and saying I'mgoing to go to work on.
You know, I got rid of thatearly on Cause I knew that was
going to be detrimental to me injob interviews.
You know, I wasn't going to beable to come and speak my normal
way, that I've been raised tospeak, you know, cause I'd lose.
I'd lose work.
You know I'm already.
(35:50):
I was already worried about myname cause I can't hide Raul
Lopez, I can't pretend.
You know, I've always thoughtmaybe I should put Paul Lopes On
some of my interviews and say Ihad a typo, until I got the
interview.
Guest (36:03):
Portuguese.
Raul Lopez (36:04):
Yeah, portuguese or something.
Yeah, exactly.
But you know I was.
But these were all the things Ihad to think about and I'm like
how many job interviews am Imissing out now?
And I think things are a littlebetter now cause it's all
algorithmic computers that arereading the, the information on
your resume for a lot ofrecruiters.
Guest (36:23):
There's a lot of companies out there that claim
they're doing blind hiring yeah.
Raul Lopez (36:27):
You know, and so you know, like I've noticed, so
like you know, just to kind ofput it out there you know, one
thing I always do is I copy my.
When I get the job, I copy myjob title for the for the job
they give me and I put it righton my resume and that has all
the keywords that they wereusing.
And I just keep recycling, I usethe same things and I show up
and I've noticed that I startedpopping up on more recruiters
(36:48):
searches and I'm getting calledby more recruiters because all
those key words are there and Idon't have to think about it.
Guest (36:53):
Yeah, exactly, I mean also you gotta think of the day
they they do someone to do thework right.
Raul Lopez (36:57):
Yeah.
Guest (37:00):
It's like a high-five person.
You know, there's a at one ofthe companies I worked for.
It was a small startup and Iwas looking over the lab, right.
So I had a really goodrelationship with the people who
were the technical service.
(37:21):
Right, they're the one'schanging out like L and two
tanks for some of the freezerswhere we keep ourselves.
They're the ones like cleaningsome stuff, other ones like
moving lab benches, movingequipment, stocking the
inventory with common used, likelab consumables, like pipettes
and things that people use.
Right, all black, all black,right.
(37:42):
So we kind of could bond on the, the fact that we weren't white
, like in the company, right,yeah, so it was pretty hilarious
because I got this one packagethat I brought up from the
loading dock and it had ouraddress on it, our floor and
suite number, but I didn't knowthis name and it was all the way
(38:07):
to the punchline.
But but then I was like hey, doyou to the, to the technical
guys, who was black, and he waslike.
I was like, do you know thisperson?
He was like no one's stayinghigh and no one named Laquanda
at this place.
That was like, oh, my God, like, ok cool.
Raul Lopez (38:28):
No, it's funny because you go to a different
job and you don't, you'llrecognize and you'll see certain
systemic we talk systemicracism things that I don't think
nobody really recognized itexcept for the people in those
positions.
You know what I mean.
Like, I worked at a job wherewe started realizing the person
they keep putting into beingresponsible for stocking and
storage of, like the computerequipment, the physical labor
(38:51):
aspect, because they're gettingthe computers, lifting it up,
putting it down.
You know it was physical, Wasalways a black guy, it was.
You know we were like hold on,this is the fourth black guy in
a row now that they put in thatposition.
You know, and it's.
You know, you're caught in aposition of like, do we make a
fuss about it or do we not?
Or do we just keep working andhope just to get out of there?
(39:14):
You know what I mean.
And it sucks sometimes, youknow, and especially when you
hear stories of people who haveactually fought racism at work
and failed.
Yeah, exactly right.
And it's like oh, now they dothat, now they're blacklisted
and they have to leave.
You know, and I have friendswho were fought in a particular
job that I worked at, that Ifought the system and their only
(39:35):
option was to gracefully bowout with a nice little exit
package and pretend none of itever happened.
You know what I?
Guest (39:42):
mean that goes with sexual harassment.
Yeah, sexual harassment andthings like that too, and it
comes down to if you're afull-time employee or you're a
contractor as well.
There's a contractor who youknow you commonly refer to in
history as a temp and they'reworked through a third-party
company.
They actually are work and paidby a third-party company.
The company pays that.
(40:03):
The biotech company or farmcompany pays that company to
staff them with people, right?
This one young woman, she wasdoing something on a bioreactor
and she was bent over liketrying to do a connection or
whatever.
It was a guy, he was a creep.
I hate this dude anyway.
He came up to her like,dry-humped her from behind.
(40:24):
I guess who got?
Who got recommended?
The young woman who wascontractor got let go.
Yeah, total wild shit.
Like that happens all the time,man, and you know.
Going back to your question ofyou know how do you get around.
You know just the racism andsexism and everything like to
(40:44):
move up Because of back to codeswitching and you also have to
live with what you just said,sometimes of like, what do I do?
Do I just turn the other way,self-preservation kind of thing,
right?
Do I raise something A lot ofcompanies are doing like
anonymous tips, things like that, and but you know I really
haven't seen anything getresolved through that before.
(41:05):
So it might work, it might not.
I just haven't seen it.
Raul Lopez (41:08):
It's so quiet on the results.
Yeah, you know, one of thethings you wish it would be that
these diversity, equity andinclusion departments would have
transparency on the results oncertain things.
They don't have to name thingsbut just say a complaint was
given about this and it wasfixed.
Obviously they won't, becausethey don't want to call out the
(41:29):
bad stuff but we never know ifit's actually working or not.
You know you can have anonymousthings but you'll hear and
that's just companies I work, Imean I have friends in all
overpaces and differentcompanies that work that you
know in your histories about ahigh level executive that was
couldn't keep a female secretary.
They had to eventually switchit only to male secretaries Well
(41:52):
, assistants, not secretaries.
But you know the state of thesentence had to be all male
because they were kept gettingsexually harassed and they
weren't able to keep them.
You know, and then you're likewell, why didn't you fix the
problem instead of justreplacing it with a different
solution?
You know it's a so yeah, no,it's kind of wild and for a lot
(42:12):
of times for us we will you lookback at, like our parents and
something they had to deal with,especially in Texas, you know,
and the way your parents grew up, different from where you grew
up.
Their grandparents grew upespecially in Texas, where a lot
of people who spoke Spanish orlooked Mexicans weren't given
jobs.
So they raised their kids tonot speaking Spanish not, you
(42:35):
know, don't have an accentbecause they were parents trying
to protect them from not beingable to get a job.
You know they didn't want them.
So you have a big generation ofMexican-Americans who don't
speak Spanish, don't have anaccent, probably have very
angle-sized names, because theirparents were like we aren't
gonna let you suffer what wesuffer.
And so sometimes you suck it upand you go in there and hope
that you get in high enough tothe point where you could be
(42:57):
vocal about things withoutrisking yourself.
To an extent you know what Imean Like, yeah, now you know
when you get to a position whereyou're high enough, if you're
vocal at a job, you're probablynot gonna be out of work for too
long if something bad happenedat that job.
You know because of yourexperience, you know and I think
sometimes we need to, we don'tget that that we need to wait
(43:19):
until our experience is highenough to be able to stand up
sometimes and that's kind of thehard part, you know.
Guest (43:26):
And that's exactly kind of what I did.
I kept my nose to thegrindstone and gained these
skills.
Make sure I was updating myresume and my CV appropriately
to highlight these big terms,these big operations that I was
essentially fluid in right andworked my way that way.
So you know, going back to myjob history, I was in that pilot
(43:48):
plant that I went back toanother pilot plant for gene
therapy, different company,which was a larger company, and
I hated that because they hiredme at a very low level but I
needed to get out of my othercompany because they were
cutting programs and it wasn'tgonna go anywhere.
So you know, I went to thisbigger company but that wasn't
(44:09):
gonna go anywhere because of thebig companies.
It takes a lot of time to go upthe ladder because there's so
many people, there's so manyrungs and there's yeah, there's
so many rungs.
There's not a lot of headspacethere.
So the people who really likethose kind of companies are just
kind of like I like doing mything.
I'm okay making this money fora while, cause you're only gonna
(44:32):
get maybe 3% raise every yearif that when you switch
positions you can maybe get like15, 20.
Raul Lopez (44:40):
You know, if you do it correctly, right, and when
you leave, another thing.
So you bring up the points,just kind of always like
throwing in some tips that we,when we start talking about
stuff, that people listening.
But yeah, you know, staying inyour position if you get raises
you know cause not everybodygets raises.
You know it's usually reallyminimal.
If you move up in a positionwithin a company, it's usually,
you know, 10%, something likethat, really nice.
(45:00):
But if you leave from onecompany to another company, it's
always 20, 30%, depending onwhat you're pushing for.
You know what I mean.
And so the jump is alwayshigher leaving.
And for a company it's alwayscheaper to keep someone which is
something a lot of companiesdon't understand where they're
willing to let you hang on thehook for a while in hopes that
(45:20):
you'll get the position, andthen you leave and then they're
stuck trying to figure out who'sgonna fill in that position and
it takes six months to get someof the backfill.
Yeah, at least yeah, and evenwhen they get them, it takes
them a year or two beforethey're in a position to
understand it the way you did it, or, if ever.
Guest (45:33):
Yeah, exactly.
Raul Lopez (45:33):
So yeah, so lots.
I mean there's something.
This is just a corporate issuewhere a lot of companies don't
realize that, and it's a reasonwhy I've left, you know, and now
I'm more of like the threeyears, I'm moving up, moving up.
Guest (45:47):
Yeah.
So, yeah, I totally get that Inmy career.
Now I'm looking to cruise.
I'm making a good amount ofmoney and when you get to the
like, the VP level, like itreally starts bleeding into your
life.
Like I've had VPs that Ireported to directly and they're
all day, all night on theirphone, the computer, doing stuff
.
Right, I don't want that.
I'm starting to hit cruise mode, making really good money for
(46:11):
what I do.
Yeah, and I'm fine with itright now.
Right, but to get to this level,yeah, exactly, it was, honestly
, the basis of it was codeswitching.
The only thing you're talkingto what to say, how to act,
speed a different person,honestly, and it sucks.
It's a head fuck, honestly.
Yeah, but hey, I want to beable to do things.
(46:36):
I want to be able to helppeople who look like me, but you
have to have money to do that.
Yeah, so, right now, I've beenthat stage of life of building
capital Still, I'm my upper 30snow but still building.
That didn't see what we coulddo, right, but yeah, to get to
(46:59):
where I am now as coachswitching, it was stay at a job
for a year or two and then moveit to another one, because
that's how you do make the largeraise.
I doubled my salary in fouryears.
Yeah same thing.
Raul Lopez (47:13):
I mean I, in the last five years I've doubled my
salary, More than double mysalary.
Yeah, I mean, it's just, andall I did was switch shop switch
.
You know what?
I mean and being open tolistening.
You know, the one of the thingstoo is like recruiters would
call me and now I'm like okay,let me hear what you got to say.
You know what I mean.
(47:34):
Like before I was like oh, I'veonly been here for like a year.
Guest (47:37):
I don't want my resume to look bad after a while I was
like I don't care, I don't care,so I don't care anymore.
They're gonna take a chance onyou.
Raul Lopez (47:42):
Yeah, you know what I mean?
Cause we were raised back inthings like well, if you don't
show that you've been with acompany and you weren't loyal
for a long time, they're goingto wonder why?
Yeah, and now it's like theydon't care.
They don't care, and so I thinkthat's the reason why I'm loyal
to you.
I mean, I'm loyal to you aslong as you're loyal to me.
Yeah, exactly Right, you knowit's a two way street and you
know when we do, when they doall this stuff like diversity,
equity and inclusion they dotalks about.
(48:09):
You know, you know, you know,you know, you know, you know you
know, you know, you know, youknow, you know, you know, you
know, you know, you know, youknow they do talks about the age
difference and the differentgenerations and their mentality,
and I think we're kind of inthe middle where we're kind of
more of the more open to youknow we can stay loyal, but
(48:31):
we're also looking to move outand improve, as opposed to the
old generation that was likewe're sticking here for the next
25 years and the newergeneration that are just like
nah, I just you have to hit myspot that if I'm not happy
working here, I'm not going towork here.
Yeah, exactly, and I think it'sgoing to go more of that route
and companies are going to startrealizing that they need to
have happy, co happy employeesfor them to stay.
Guest (48:52):
Yeah, the biotech pharma industry.
You see that in compensation isthat you know up to I want to
say my level.
To the director level, you're ahired gun.
You're brought in there to do ajob, more or less.
So if biotech, I mean thestart-ups, and that's that's why
(49:14):
I got out of there I'm readynot to try to do a lot of stuff
and do a lot of things that areoutside my role and I want to be
focused now.
But in general, I will say justto generalize, it is that up to
the director level, you're ahired gun.
You brought in to do one thing,you're brought to do this role.
Who has these discreteresponsibilities, blah, blah,
blah, and that's reflected insalary pay.
(49:36):
Right Now, when you startgetting into, like the VP, like
the C level kind of thing, it'sa lot about equity in the
company, like stocks, rsu'soptions, things like that.
A lot of their, their deals,their salary has greater than
(49:58):
mine, but it's not as big of agap for me from like levels
below me, you know.
So what that is is for them tostay with the company because
these things invest over years.
Right, like you, if you, if aVP signs on, you know they're
getting this stock equity plan,they're getting all these RSU's,
(50:19):
but they got to be on for two,three years before they can even
cash them out, right?
So hopefully the stock is stilldoing well, yeah, but so what
that does is create theincentive for them to stay and
make it succeed, right?
So that's what I was going tosay.
Raul Lopez (50:35):
So the way you're putting it in is, when you get
to anything below this level,you know you're working for the
position.
Everything above that level,you're working to improve the
company.
Guest (50:45):
Yeah, exactly.
But you know that comes withwork life balance stuff, things
like that.
And right now I come home and Iturn off my workflow right,
turn on my computer and that'sit.
Raul Lopez (50:57):
Yeah.
Guest (50:58):
If you really really need me or if there's production
going on that I got to lookafter, or working with someone
in Europe.
Yeah, I'm going to have mypersonal phone on, or I'll have
my work phone on, or somethingthat somebody's going to hold me
Right.
There are little concessions,but I think that's specific to
my role, what I do.
But whatever I have directreports, I always encourage them
(51:19):
just to disconnect because it'snot worth it Right.
Raul Lopez (51:25):
And the thing, too, that people don't understand is
that if you don't disconnect,someone's going to take
advantage of that.
You're doing it, you know.
There will be that one personthat clocks out at five and
they're done.
And there will be that personthat works to seven or eight
thinking, oh, it's going to helpme improve.
There's just going to be a lotof times that I've seen there's
another manager is takingadvantage of you and letting you
do that extra work to benefitthem as opposed to benefiting
(51:46):
yourself.
You know what I mean.
Really, it's a fight foryourself.
You have to be selfish.
You need to be able to be vocalabout what you want and be able
to come in there.
That's something that's takenme a long time to learn.
Yeah, you know that I didn'tcome in there thinking, you know
I, I was never going to comework, work, work.
They're going to see how good Iam.
I've never had a bad review,you know what I mean.
Like that'll be shit.
(52:08):
Yeah, and I was like I was like,why, why?
Why am I such a great employeein all these reviews but
nobody's promoting me?
It was like, well, and evenwhen I asked I'm just being led,
you know, like a horse with acarrot.
You know what I mean.
And it's like I think about oneof my last jobs at law firm
that I had.
I was like if I hadn't movedand left to where I am now, I'd
(52:28):
probably still be barelytouching six figures, if I'm
lucky.
You know, even if they hadpromoted me, you know, give me a
promotion with like a 10%increase and solely like I might
have just been breaking, youknow, breaking that.
And then now I think I make toomuch, that they can't afford me
.
Yeah, so it's like, but I haveto be brave and I have to be
selfish enough to take those 10,those risks and say I'm going
(52:51):
to go to another company and trysomething different.
Guest (52:54):
Yeah, and I think you know it's at least for myself
when I'm in management role.
You know I I'm trying to lookfor people who are good
individuals, people who are goodindividual contributors and
good managers.
And it comes down to what extrathings because I do think extra
things you take on can help inthe long run yeah, like to make
the biotech, pharma industryjust to pick that, because it's
(53:18):
way different right To go fromlike an associate role to like a
senior role or an managementrole.
You got to show that you canmanage right, yeah, and then you
have to be able to displaythose, those competencies.
Raul Lopez (53:34):
And just to clarify, I wasn't trying to say never do
it.
There's always going to be asituation where you need to come
in.
Oh, absolutely.
You're going to be a nightwhere you're going to work till
two in the morning gettingsomething done because you need
to get this done, because it'sgoing to cost, you know, your
job if you don't get it done,but it's just.
Guest (53:46):
You know there's people that go in there and to get
abused, yeah, and there's noadvocate for themselves and
they're just letting themselvesdo individual contributor stuff.
You know, if you want to dosomething extra, you got to do
something that's above yourlevel managing something right.
And you know there's a lot oftimes it just comes down to luck
, honestly, and being able toseize the opportunity which I
(54:07):
think we both talked about withmoving to different companies
and things like that.
I think that was actually aidedby the market where there was
very low interest rates.
So there's a lot of free money,essentially right.
So a lot of venture capital isa pouring millions on it.
Why?
Because I can afford it now,because money is not costing
them a whole lot, right, theycan take up that risk.
Raul Lopez (54:29):
And on top of that, it's not even just, you know,
being willing to seize theopportunity, but also
recognizing when the well is dry.
Guest (54:38):
Exactly, you got to recognize the opportunity.
Raul Lopez (54:40):
You got to recognize that I need to start looking
for opportunities.
You know you got to startrecognizing okay, I just killed
six years of my life at this joband I've asked to be promoted
three times and nothing'shappening.
You know I got to start lookingand don't even have to wait
five years.
You know what I mean.
Like start giving yourself aplan and say this is what I
expect, my career, and I thinkthat's a lot of people don't do
when they start their job.
They're just happy they have ajob.
They don't come in and they saywhere do I?
(55:01):
You know they tell you this.
This is their interview questionand I've never been asked an
interview question.
Usually you hardly ever getasked that in a real life.
Where do you see yourself infive years?
You know, but that's reallywhat you should be thinking
about.
Where do you see yourself infive years?
What do you want to be?
Are you looking to move up orare you looking to get out and
do something better?
Or are you just trying tocruise like the next five years?
Yeah, exactly.
Guest (55:21):
And I think that's a good thing, yeah, recognizing it.
And, you know, I thinkspecifically to my situation,
especially within the last likefive years or so.
I told my wife this, and thenher parents, because we always
talk about it.
Right, it's like I go to thehighest bidder.
I had recruiters calling meevery week and I'm like, yeah,
I'll, I'll bail it here.
(55:42):
I've been here for six months.
If you guys give me more money,yeah, because of these
companies.
These small startup companiesat the time needed someone who
knew what they were doing tocome in and drive stuff Right,
to come in to say, to take itfrom R and D through development
into the clinic as fast aspossible.
Raul Lopez (56:03):
And the nice thing with startups is sometimes
they're so small that you canfill in many hats, that you can
learn a lot of different thingsExactly.
You could learn a lot more, alot more broader stuff and
different things that you'll beable to use in your career, but
there's stuff that you might nothave done specifically.
You know what I mean.
And in small startups, hopingthey do well and they succeed,
(56:25):
you know, when you're thereearly, you can make a bigger
impact.
Guest (56:28):
Yeah, especially if you get, especially you have a lot
of equity with the first startup.
You know that will definitelyinflate, but, um, yeah, I mean
working with small startups.
It did, you know, give meopportunities to expand my skill
set to things that I had adouble four haven't really seen.
But it also gives you access tothe C level, like CEO, like.
We have meetings with the CEO,like every week because it's
(56:50):
such a small company, right, andyou get to see how the scissors
are made at that level and whatit beats at least to what
you're privy to, right.
So that's, that's a definitelya big advantage of of that is
being able to just see how youthink in a bigger picture,
rather than so narrow scope ofwhat is in front of you.
(57:11):
You know, um, but yeah,honestly, the market is
tightened up a little, obviouslywith inflation.
Not just rates are up.
It's not that many things outthere, um, you know, I did see
some opportunity recently, um,and I knew I wasn't going to be
able to negotiate as hardbecause the market's a little
(57:35):
bit drier now, um, so, but also,thankfully, good timing.
I'm ready to, I was ready to getout of the startup stuff.
I've already dealt with.
All that worked my ass off.
I'm just tired.
So back in I'm in a big farmernow, just a cog in a wheel and
(57:56):
really just going in doing onething, doing it well and going
home and making even more moneythan I was making before.
It's win-win, yeah, honestly.
Uh, for just the stage I'm atwhat I want to do right now and
I'm content so far.
Raul Lopez (58:13):
Yeah, and I mean one of the things that keep coming
up through all our discussionswith all the people that I'm
interviewing is being open torisk, open to taking a risk and
taking, you know, jumping on anopportunity when you see it.
And sometimes I mean it was thesame thing.
I had conversation with my wife, you know, years ago.
I'm like I'm stagnant, I'm notgoing anywhere, like I need to
take a look at jobs that aredifferent than what I've been
(58:33):
doing to learn somethingdifferent.
That'll be, you know, help meout.
So I moved, I took my job and Igot.
I was a consultant for a SierraM company and I left that job
they're cool company, I reallyliked them a startup from the UK
and I was doing so muchdifferent things.
You know, project management,consulting uh, I was kind of a
(58:53):
business analyst while being aproject manager.
So I was doing so much littlethings and then literally like
within three years, you know, um, and it was nice to that
company because they kind ofgive you you know, oh, these, if
you do this and this, you cango into this path and this path,
uh, but you know, within threeyears I got called by recruiter
for a job I had now andeverything that I did at my old
(59:14):
job, which was very specific tothe what they needed, plus the
fact that I was able to be aconsultant, do requirements,
manage projects all thatcombined together to help me get
the position I am now.
but being willing to come inthere.
And now I'm in a position whereit's more.
You know I'm in a lot morecontrol than I am with my
specific project, than I everbeen in anything.
(59:35):
You know what I mean.
So, uh, sometimes you have tobe willing to go out there and
try something different and notnot be afraid of change.
Guest (59:43):
Yeah, exactly, it's about what's right for you at the
time.
Um, there's this dude that Iknow he's done it twice.
Is that, you know, as soon as,like he sniffs the company's
about to be bought or somethinghe's out Well, he has kids and
stuff.
You can't, you know you can'tafford that volatility of will I
(01:00:04):
have a job?
Exactly you know, am I going toget laid off on just a separate
stuff like a few months?
You know, then you guys to finda new job.
So you know it's he always allright, started looking, got
something and got there right.
Um, but you know, yeah, starsare volatile or volatile.
Um, definitely ready in my lifefor that stability, focus and
(01:00:25):
everything that I that I havenow, my current roles I can see
it's still pretty new, so I'mfiguring it out, but uh, yeah,
nice man.
Raul Lopez (01:00:33):
Well, I appreciate you taking the time to talk
about your journey and talkabout certain little topics here
and there that will hopefullyhelp out people, uh, and I
really hope to have you back tokind of deep dive into some of
these more specific things.
Guest (01:00:45):
So yeah, let's do another one soon.
Raul Lopez (01:00:47):
Yeah, this is this was fun, so, and this is my
first live one in person withsomeone, so, yeah, this is a
slight difference from being onzoom.
I really appreciate it.
But to everyone else listening,once again, I'd like to thank
you for your support and tuningin and I hope you join us again
next time as we continue to seesuccess in Spanglish.
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