April 22, 2025 • 28 mins
Lighting Designer
Ever wondered what happens behind the scenes to create the magical atmosphere of a Broadway show? Four-time Tony Award winner Kevin Adams pulls back the curtain on the fascinating world of theatrical lighting design in this illuminating conversation about his unexpected career journey. The most eye-opening revelation comes when Adams explains how Broadway designers actually make their (big) money.
Topics
1:47 From Performer to Lighting Designer
3:52 Discovering Light as an Art Form
8:54 Creating Special Effects for Broadway
12:36 How Broadway Payment Systems Work
17:45 Technology Revolution in Theater Lighting
23:45 Tony Awards and Career Highlights
26:48 Hedwig and the Angry Inch
Resources
https://tisch.nyu.edu/design/course-offerings/lighting-design
https://calarts.edu/academics/programs-and-degrees/mfa-lighting-design
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Music credit: Kate Pierson & Monica Nation
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
If you design a Broadway show, you get a weekly
royalty, and if the show doesreally well, that's where you
make some money.
But then hold on, it getsbetter.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And it gets better indeed.
Hi, and welcome back to howMuch Can I Make?
I'm Erav Ozeri, a curiousjournalist that always wants to
know what people do for a livingand how much they can earn.
This week, we're stepping intothe spotlight, literally with
one of the masters behind themagic of lighting.
Our guest is a four-time TonyAward winner, kevin Adams.
(00:35):
He's a lighting designer whosework has illuminated Broadway,
las Vegas opera and many otherproductions.
So let's find out from Kevinwhat does it take to become an
award-winning lighting designer?
So, kevin, first of all, thankyou so much for willing to do
that.
Nice to be here today.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Let's start by telling us how did you get into
lighting design?
Speaker 1 (01:00):
I really wanted to be a performer.
Like lots of young performers,I would do little puppet shows
In high school.
I was in plays and musicals.
After a really bad audition forthe Diary of Anne Frank, I had
a high school teacher who verygently guided me into set design
.
He suggested I might want to bethe set designer for the Diary
(01:23):
of Anne Frank.
I remember thinking like what'sthat?
And he explained it and then Ijust like I just took to that so
quickly.
And then I went to theUniversity of Texas in Austin
and got a BFA in set design,never studied lighting, had no
interest in lighting, didn'tnotice the lighting.
I was just like reallyambitious and dedicated to set
(01:46):
design.
And then I went to CaliforniaInstitute of the Arts and I went
there to study more set design.
But they also taught productiondesign for film.
Mtv premiered in late 1981 andin 84 it was still round the
clock.
You know music shorts, whichwas like thrilling at the time
and I thought like, oh, this issomething I want to be a part of
(02:08):
.
So I studied production designfor film.
Didn't study lighting, had zerointerest in lighting it was a
two year program at an artschool that costs so little at
the time and moved intoHollywood.
I worked in film a lot.
I was a dresser, props dresser,set dresser, which I really
(02:29):
loved Built scenery.
I was an art director.
I was a production designer.
I worked on lots of likehigh-end commercials, like Bose
speakers and Apple, and lots ofbeer like Budweiser and
Budweiser Light, and then,because there's still lighting
to come- Right, because you saidyou were totally not interested
in lighting.
(02:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I saw the work of fineartists that use light in their
work at various museums.
I saw that work a lot new workand old work and I saw that I
could design a space aroundthese things that I found in
hardware stores light bulbs andfluorescent tubes that could
make light and turn on and offvery quickly and make a new
(03:11):
space.
And I started lighting my ownlittle sets and immediately the
phone started ringing with thesereally well-known.
You know, in the late 80s andearly 90s there was a huge
performance art scene in thiscountry.
Well, rachel Rosenthal, thisreally interesting lady, called
me that she had been performing.
She was an older lady whoshaved her head and I started
(03:33):
working with her, lighting hershows, and eventually we had
five different shows that wewould do and john fleck was one
of the nea four and he was myfirst la boyfriend.
I started lighting his work anddoing little sets for him and
then, like well-known directorswould call me, but all these
people would say the same thing.
They'd say, hey, I saw thatshow you did.
(03:54):
That's how I see my work.
Do you want to come light mywork?
And I'd say, like I am not alighting designer at all, like I
did.
I did that little show or twoand I'm a trained set designer,
I know how to make shows and butI don't know anything about
lighting.
And they all said you know what, that's okay, come try this,
and if it works, that's great,and if it doesn't, it's no big
(04:17):
deal.
Which was like really hard tosay no to, you know, because
these people were like makingreally interesting work and they
were all really well-known.
So I just started lightinglittle shows and each show got
bigger so I was learning abouttheatrical lighting at the same
time.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Do you prefer working on live shows or film?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Once I became a lighting designer, I lit a music
video when I lived in LA andthat was shot on film.
It was a Janet Jackson musicvideo.
I lived in LA and that was shoton film this Janet Jackson
music video but that was forfilm and I did not understand
how film captured light at all.
I had a lot of help from the DPand the director.
(04:58):
Now that film is digital orcameras are digital and the
cameras mostly see what the eyesees.
I've lit some things in the lastfew years, like I lit part of
that mildred pierce on hbo.
Really, yeah, I lit there's awhole concert thing in the
middle of it that I spent a lotof time on it's minutes of the
(05:18):
film but I spent two months onit.
That was digital and so whatyou see with your eyes, kind of
what the camera sees, and youcan have a monitor that with
your eyes, kind of what thecamera sees, and you can have a
monitor.
That's very similar to what'sexactly what the camera's going
to see.
That's much easier to light andbalance and that I could
understand.
I like that no reviewer isgoing to come to it and review
it and I like that we don't gothrough that process that we go
(05:41):
through in New York City withtheater which is, but I assume,
assume, when the lighting isright, the reviewers will not
even notice anything.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
It's only yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
I think I've been mentioned in reviews, like I
mean maybe 10 times I mean showsthat I've won Tony's for, like
they don't even mention thelighting.
It's just like no, they justdon't talk about they don't
people know how to talk about it.
They don't recognize it, theydon't see it.
They don't talk about it.
They don't recognize it, theydon't see it.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
They don't see it, I know.
So let's say, a director or aproducer comes to you a Broadway
show.
After four Tonys, I'm sure alot of them come to you Somewhat
.
Yes, so they come to you with aplay.
First of all, do you have tolive the play that you work on.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Do I have to like it?
Yeah, you know, when you lighta show, a musical, you have to
hear those songs a lot like overand over and over and over and
over.
If I don't like the music or ifI don't get the music, I would
say no.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Once you design the lighting, do you have to be
there for every show?
Speaker 1 (06:40):
No, you're pretty much off the case.
Like once a show opens, you'redone because they can't afford
to have programmers and theyhave to pay everyone to work
more.
So do you.
That plan is not to pay anyonedo you automate the lighting?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
yeah?
Speaker 1 (06:54):
yeah, so uh, there's a programmer, which that is a
great field to get into.
There's a huge console we callit which is a computer.
It gets more complicated everyyear and there's a person I talk
to and they program thelighting into that console and
then come opening night, thatperson's moved on to another job
(07:15):
.
I've moved on, my assistantsmoved on, my associates moved on
, and then there's a group ofpeople in the theater who
maintain the show and there'sone guy who presses.
You just press go.
The stage manager calls a cuelike q1 go, q2 go, q3 go.
So it's like that the producerwould come to you and offer you
(07:35):
the job or director uh, allkinds of people uh, it's usually
a director will call me and say, hey, I'm doing this thing and
I'll be like I'll find out whoelse is working on it and send
me the script so I'll read itand listen to it.
Sometimes it's an unfinishedscript.
Sometimes, if it's an opera andit's new, you get nothing other
than like a topic because itdoesn't exist yet.
(07:58):
For an opera uh, for musical.
Sometimes there's a recordingof like a workshop so you get
the recording.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
What do you do?
You start drawing what you'regonna do?
Speaker 1 (08:07):
I just listen to it.
I just sit and listen to it.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
You get the atmosphere.
I mean, what inspires you?
Usually just let.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
What is the story?
What?
What's the music like?
What kind of music is it?
I do a lot of shows withelectric guitars.
I do a lot of like rock popshows.
I mean, everyone does now, butI had done, I have done a lot of
like rock theater shows.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Do you do special effects in those, like special
effects with light?
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Oh yeah, I mean yeah, yeah, just smoke.
Lots of smoke effects,lightning effects, fire effects,
like flame in a barrel and likewhat else Lightning, you know?
Like flame in a barrel and likewhat else Lightning, you know?
Rain, things like that.
For Swept Away that I just didon Broadway, I hung 30
industrial-sized carpet dryerfans around the theater, why
(08:56):
there was a huge storm in theshow and so we had wind blowing
through the entire theater.
It was really neat.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
That's part of your job.
I would think that's part ofyour job.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
I would think that's part of the set designer no,
that it's a, it's an effect,it's a special effect that I
knew how to do.
We had rain in the show too,but that I didn't know how to do
and we had, I think scenerykind of took care of that so
when you did 30 fans, that musthave been very noisy, no it was,
but it's a really loud stormand the storm covered it up.
(09:26):
But yeah, when you turned it onit sounded like you were in a
huge HVAC system.
I mean, it was quite a loudrumble.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Right, but you didn't hear it when the storm ran.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
It was really amazing , but you'd feel it and it would
stop and start and stop andstart and the whole theater felt
it.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
It was really neat stop and start and the whole
theater felt it was really neat.
Wow, that's an experience foran audience.
I'm sure that's pretty cool.
Yeah, wind, did you ever workwith a diva, either in opera or
film or theater, that complainedabout the lighting?
She doesn't want wrinkles toshow, or something.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
No, I mean you.
We are, we are obligated toespecially take care of the
women and make sure they lookgood, and especially the older
women.
They want to look good, but youalso, like I, go up and talk to
them often and tell them howgood they look and you're
looking great, and they want toknow that you're taking care of
them understandably.
And those, those women who arelike solid show women, like
(10:20):
patty lapone and honor mcdonaldthey're like not divas at all,
they're amazing.
They want to look good and ifthey didn't, they would tell you
.
But you take care of them andthey're amazing women.
I worked with Faye Dunaway notlong ago and that was, that was
an absolute trip.
Why?
Well, she's by far the mostcomplicated person I've ever
(10:44):
worked with, but also was likefascinating, you know.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Oh really.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Everything I was hoping it would be.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
She was amazing.
Who was the greatest to workwith from all the women?
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Oh, patti's amazing.
I did a lot of things withPatti LuPone and Audra McDonald.
They're all just like show folk.
Those are all just like Patti'slike a Jersey mom.
I mean, those are all just likeshow folk.
Those are all just like patty'slike a jersey mom.
I mean, those are all just likeshow folk.
You know, they're great.
They show up early to workevery day and they work hard and
when all the kids like leave onbreaks or lunch, they're like
(11:15):
still working and they'll stayafter and work and those are
really really hard working smartpeople and I love they're, you
know, and they're show folk.
They're funny and weird andneurotic and you know everything
that show folks are and fromthe guys who was the most
difficult to work with.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Difficult, oh pleasure I can't.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
There were some like super lazy tenors who were just
like coasting through the show.
They're just handsome guys whokind of coast.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
We talked before that you don't know really about pay
, because after four Tonys andeight nominations right, that's
correct.
This is crazy, kevin.
It's crazy.
So you're on a total differentechelon.
But if somebody starts, yes,can you give us an idea?
What can they make?
Speaker 1 (12:04):
I have no idea.
You know I'm in a union.
We have minimums for designerson shows.
I don't make minimum.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Do you know what the minimum is?
Any idea?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Well, it's plays and musicals are different.
A Broadway musical there'sphases, there's like a musical
with one set, then there's amusical with two sets.
There's all these differentcategories.
I think it's like 12 or 16 or17 or 18 000 for a show, for a
week for a show.
For a show not for a week, uh,then you get paid.
(12:37):
If you design a broadway show,you get a weekly royalty.
If a show does well, what doyou mean?
Speaker 2 (12:43):
weekly royalty?
Wait, I never heard about that.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah , that's how we make money.
If a show runs, like the LionKing or Book of Mormon or so
many other shows that aren't myshows, if a show runs, every
week that it runs, you get paid.
And then you get paid a minimumwhich in the last few years is
like $500 or $750 or $1,000 aweek, and then on top of that
(13:08):
there's cycles of royalties.
So every four weeks they countup the box office, they deduct
the cost of running the show,then they divide what's left up.
Everyone has a percentage basedon their contract the writers,
the, the director, thechoreographer, the designers,
the actors.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
It's the creative side, what they call but wait, I
need to understand this becauseI never heard about it before?
Yes so let's say you work onthe lion king you design the
lighting.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Let's say that.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Okay, yes and you designed everything.
Everything is now basically onhalf automated.
Maybe you have somebody thatpushed.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
You still get the royalties.
You still get the royalties,but then, hold on, it gets
better.
So then your production of thelion king is running in new york
and then it's running in la andmany other places correct.
It tours around the us and theworld.
One or two tours it's runningin dubai and south africa and
(14:09):
fucking shanghai, it's all overthe world.
Yeah, yeah, and you get paidfor all of those oh, wow indeed,
that's a great job.
Indeed not many.
There aren't many designers onbroadway and there certainly
aren't many people that haveshows that run like that.
But, yes, that's where you canmake some money, like.
(14:29):
I have two tours out now thatfrom shows I did on Broadway
that are selling really, really,really well and you make a lot
of money.
Wow, yeah yeah, that's a sweetthing, correct.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
So whoever worked on the Phantom of the Opera didn't
have to work again.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
She died.
But correct, she was found deadin her tub.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
but yes, Really, oh my God, I feel guilty for
laughing, no, no, no no, no, theset designer.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
I mean you know people die and that show was a
long time ago.
But yeah, I mean yes, yes, yeah, yeah, I mean they made that
was a show from the 80s.
So they, like people make somuch more now because of current
contracts.
But yeah, those people made alot of money.
They were making that was an80s contract, so they were
making not near what people makenow yeah, but they made it for
(15:18):
30 some years, yeah oh, totally.
And that show ran everywhere andtoured everywhere right every
day, every week, you get a checkfrom all those Wow In Didi,
it's great, okay, which.
If you do a show in Vegas mostshows in Vegas that you design
they don't have royalties, theyjust pay you one big lump sum.
Some shows will give royalties,weekly royalties, but a lot of
(15:40):
shows will just pay you a chunkof money and then you open the
show and you're done.
I mean, a fee could be 50 000or 60 or 80 or you know
something like that.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Wow yeah, it doesn't take that long to design a show.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Right to design lighting for a show I spend
about a year in pre-productionon the show.
I mean, that's not every daybut if we start a show out of
town, I start usually a yearbefore that we start in meetings
, lots of meetings.
Then the set is designed, thenwe do the plot.
So you know, that's like fourhours here, four hours there,
(16:13):
four hours you know it's notevery day.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
A year that's a lot of work correct and you're on
the job.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
You're doing other shows also, then rehearsals like
four or five weeks.
I myself this, most peopledon't do this but I go to like
three weeks of that rehearsal.
Then you're in the theater foruh tech.
So, like in tech, uh come in at10, work 10 to 12 and we start
rehearsal and stage at one andthen we'll go to like a shorter
day is like one to nine, butsometimes we'll go to one to ten
(16:42):
or 1 to 10 30.
So I'm there like maybe 8 inthe morning till 10, 30 at night
.
Wow, but I have a lot of workto do and I you know I have a
lot to do.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
So do you actually hang the lights too, or you have
people?
Are you kidding?
Speaker 1 (16:57):
no, I don't, wouldn't , I've never touched, I wouldn't
know how to do that.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
No, there are people who do that for a living so you
just give orders, put this lightthere, put we draw it all out.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
And then my associate draws it all out.
There's a productionelectrician.
The show hires a productionelectrician.
He's like the head electrician.
He takes the drawings, hefigures it all out like where
everything's going to run.
He oversees the hanging, theinstallation of the plot.
Because when you do a Broadwayshow you're renting a completely
empty theater.
(17:28):
There's nothing in a theater nolights, no rig, nothing.
There's no lights, there's noWi-Fi, there's no air
conditioners.
There's a whole wardrobedepartment that needs washers
and dryers and steamers andhangers and shelves.
There is nothing.
They bring everything forproduction.
(17:48):
Correct, it is an empty box.
I mean you might have like anAC unit in a window here and
there for a dressing room andthere might be some chairs in a
dressing room and that's it.
It is an empty building.
So we each department gets allthis stuff and installs it all
and that's part of like the loadin and the.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
So you're installing like a complete business in a in
a theater so part of your jobis to order all the different
lights that you're going to needfor the show yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
So my associate makes a shop order with the
production electrician becauseevery this all comes out of a
shop that they bid on, and thenthere's a weekly rental cost
okay and every single cablescrew piece of gel gel holder.
Everything you would ever needis in that shop order.
(18:39):
I don't understand what most ofit means, because it's like
monitors and monitors and allkinds of cable and I mean it's
just like pipe and ladders andgenie lifts and you get an empty
box of a building that you haveto put a show up in that's so
crazy.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I thought that they give it to you with the lights
and you just change them around.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
No, no, no, no, because those lights, well,
every show is different, everyset's different, so you need
lights in different places.
But also, now, lighting is likeif you went into a theater, you
would want to update all thatstuff.
You know now, like movinglights are changing so quickly,
so we get whatever's on theshelves that's probably newer
(19:20):
and install it all, and thelights aren't going to hang at
the same place every time.
Yeah, but anyway, to answeryour question, I don't hang the
lights.
There are, then, electriciansthat are hired by the show and
maybe whoever owns the theater Ihaven't quite figured this out
and they hang the lights and Igo in and watch occasionally and
(19:42):
point.
I'm not allowed to touchanything.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Oh, because it's a different union, of course it is
, but also they take pride in menot needing to touch things,
but like on a film.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
It's definitely like don't touch that.
Like it's, that's definitelyunion, divided labor of who
touches what.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
So yes, do you find that it helped you that you
worked at your earlier lifebefore you got into lighting?
You work in sets.
You worked in that.
Do you feel that it helps youthat you worked at your earlier
life before you got intolighting?
You work in sets.
You worked in that.
Do you feel that that helpedyou in your profession at the
moment?
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, totally, because a lot of what I.
There's two kinds of lightingto me.
There's the kinds of lightingwhere the lights are visible,
there's no masking, and theoverhead lights are visible and
the side lights are visible.
Or I have things more insidethe space that are visible and
the side lights are visible, orI have things more inside the
space that are visible.
Those things are reallyinformed by my work as a set
designer how they occupy thespace and how they frame the
(20:32):
space and all this stuff, uh.
Second kind of lighting is thelights are not seen because
they're all behind masking andborders.
Right, that's more just liketraditional theater lighting
right like, I think, most of thethings I did at the
Metropolitan Opera, the lightingwas hidden.
Half the things I do onBroadway I did a lot of shows
(20:53):
where the lighting was visible,like American Idiot and Spring
Awakening, but about half theshows I do now the lighting's
not visible.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
We mentioned before, before we started to record how
technology changed over theyears, can you give us a little
taste of what it's like now,compared to what it was?
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Yeah, on the planet Earth.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
No, you're not on Mars yet.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
We have just gone through, in the last 16, 17, 18
years, we've gone through thistransition of this energy
efficiency transition To LED, toLED In your homes, the deli,
the big box store, in thetheater, in the theater.
Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
That happened all in just 14 or15 or 16 years.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
But can you have like a direction light with an LED?
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I mean it was quite crude.
I think the first LEDs wereused on Broadway, like in the
early 2000s, mostly just tolight backgrounds, right,
because they were.
I can see that.
Yeah, like Spring Awakening, Ihad these huge walls and they
were lit with LED Next to normal.
I had a background that was litwith LED led and then
eventually the color improvedand the direction the thing
(22:08):
you're talking about and youcould light humans with led.
Like for spongebob, the musical, I didn't have much gel at all
and it was the people, thebackgrounds and the scenery and
the people were lit with led.
Often there's no heat buildup.
You would get on a set that'stight and that heat just builds
(22:29):
up, right, especially likebehind, and now it doesn't and
it's great and you don't changecolor as much because color is
not burning or it's LED.
It's like making the color.
I did three musicals onBroadway that used a huge amount
of fluorescent light SpringAwakening, next to Normal and
Passing Strange.
Each used a tremendous amountof fluorescent tubes and
(22:53):
fluorescent light bulbs and noneof that stuff exists anymore.
The cool thing about LED is itcomes in all these different
shapes and gadgets and doodadsand sizes, so there's a huge
amount of lighting instrumentswe can choose from, but they're
LED and the colors have gottenquite nice.
You can light humans now.
(23:13):
It is changing so quickly, thelighting industry.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
How do you keep up with the changes?
How do you know?
Speaker 1 (23:19):
now I have young associates who know what's going
on.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
You read about it all the time.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yeah, and they go see .
They work on lots of differentthings and they know what the
shop has and they know they'relike, oh, you might really like
this, or there's this new lightthat's come out with no fan,
it's really quiet and you mightlike it.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
and they know okay, I have to ask you about all the
tony's that you want yes firstof all, I want to know about the
first one.
When you got the phone call,what did you feel?
Speaker 1 (23:48):
you get nominated, so you get a call in the morning.
Usually my agent calls me andsays hello, how are you this
morning?
And I'll say oh, what's goingon?
I'm just lying here in bed.
Is something happening?
We have this old game we play.
Then it used to be four weeksbetween the time you're
nominated and the Tony Awards.
Now it's five weeks, so that'storture.
(24:10):
And then the awards are in June.
It's hot and you have to getdressed up.
That part's a pain, like whatare you going to wear?
It's hot.
It's a long, long, long, long,long, long day and night.
But the biggest thing ispreparing a speech.
Like, oh my God, I have to getup in front of the entire world
(24:31):
at Radio City Music Hall and saysomething.
So I'll like practice andpractice and practice and
practice and practice.
That that's the scariest thing.
Then, once you get through that, it's a different night.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
So you were nominated eight times and won four times.
Correct, so the four times thatyou lost were you highly
disappointed.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
No, the first time I didn't win.
I was nominated twice that yearand I knew that.
Which shows were there?
Hair and Next to Normal, and Ihad won the year before.
I'd won two years before.
So you know, I didn't have anycomplaints and to be nominated
twice was amazing.
Yes, but it's really hard towin.
And also I knew that BillyElliot would win.
(25:15):
Someone had told me like, ifyou know you're not going to win
when you go, it's a much funnernight.
And boy, is that true?
Oh, really, yeah, because youcan wear relaxed shoes, you can
just enjoy the night.
And that four or five weeks oftorture between the time you're
nominated and the night there'sless torture.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
How come you knew you're not going to win?
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Like I could tell you months ago what's gonna win
this year.
You said sunset boulevard.
You think will win this year.
Yeah, probably, I knew thatlike the day they open, they're
probably gonna win it.
I interviewed the makeup personfor that and the wig maker yeah
no, that would probably win thelighting for lighting this year
, the winning nights.
I just it's a long night and Iend up just like on the sofa,
sleeping like.
Just like it's so tense.
It's a lot to go through.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
And you make a lot more money after you win, right,
I mean, your career just takesoff.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yeah, in theory I mean Spring Awakening like
really moved me to a differentcategory of designer and that
included more money.
But partly that was becausethat show really I was like 40
something and that show reallyshowed off my ideas I had been
(26:23):
working on for years reallyclearly.
So I had really good ideas thatwere presented in a really good
show, that were really on theradar, and so it was not only
that I got a Tony, but it waslike that I did some excellent
work that really shined.
All that together kind of madelike a career life change.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Is there one show or performance that you worked on
that excited you the most, thatyou're proud of the most?
Speaker 1 (26:46):
I worked on Hedwig and the Angry Inch.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Many, many, many times, which was a fantastic
show.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we started.
I worked in the firstoff-Broadway production in 97, I
think we did that at theWestbeth, which is not even
there anymore.
We opened at the Jane StreetTheater on February 14th 1998,
and ran for two and a half years.
I designed Hedwig in severalcities.
We couldn't give the ticketsaway.
No one wanted to come see arock and roll drag queen.
(27:12):
No one knew what that was, orno one cared what that was, and
then I did it on Broadway in2014.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
And that's when you got the.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Tony, I did, I did, but I always loved working on
that show because I just lovethe songs.
By the time we got to 2014,people knew the show, People
knew the songs.
Like I said, in the 90s wecouldn't give those tickets away
because the movie came out andall this stuff and people were
just.
It was sold out every night andthey brought this amazing
(27:42):
energy in and they couldn't waitto be in this room with Hedwig
and it was so thrilling.
You know, they were just.
They were so open to it andexcited by it and yeah that's
neat, excellent, that part'sgreat.
All and yeah, that's neat,excellent, that part's great,
all right, and on that, note.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Thank you, yes, so much for doing it so interesting
.
Yeah, yeah, I, the royaltything really.
Wow, I didn't know about it.
That's how we now.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I wish I was alive.
I know that's how we make a lotof money okay, that's a wrap
for today.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
If you have a comment or question or would like us to
cover a certain job, please letus know.
Visit our website athowmuchcanimakeinfo.
We would love to hear from you.
And, on your way out, don'tforget to subscribe and share
this episode with anyone who iscurious about their next job.
See you next time.
If you design a Broadway show, you get a weekly
royalty, and if the show doesreally well, that's where you
make some money.
But then hold on, it getsbetter.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And it gets better indeed.
Hi, and welcome back to howMuch Can I Make?
I'm Erav Ozeri, a curiousjournalist that always wants to
know what people do for a livingand how much they can earn.
This week, we're stepping intothe spotlight, literally with
one of the masters behind themagic of lighting.
Our guest is a four-time TonyAward winner, kevin Adams.
(00:35):
He's a lighting designer whosework has illuminated Broadway,
las Vegas opera and many otherproductions.
So let's find out from Kevinwhat does it take to become an
award-winning lighting designer?
So, kevin, first of all, thankyou so much for willing to do
that.
Nice to be here today.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Let's start by telling us how did you get into
lighting design?
Speaker 1 (01:00):
I really wanted to be a performer.
Like lots of young performers,I would do little puppet shows
In high school.
I was in plays and musicals.
After a really bad audition forthe Diary of Anne Frank, I had
a high school teacher who verygently guided me into set design
.
He suggested I might want to bethe set designer for the Diary
(01:23):
of Anne Frank.
I remember thinking like what'sthat?
And he explained it and then Ijust like I just took to that so
quickly.
And then I went to theUniversity of Texas in Austin
and got a BFA in set design,never studied lighting, had no
interest in lighting, didn'tnotice the lighting.
I was just like reallyambitious and dedicated to set
(01:46):
design.
And then I went to CaliforniaInstitute of the Arts and I went
there to study more set design.
But they also taught productiondesign for film.
Mtv premiered in late 1981 andin 84 it was still round the
clock.
You know music shorts, whichwas like thrilling at the time
and I thought like, oh, this issomething I want to be a part of
(02:08):
.
So I studied production designfor film.
Didn't study lighting, had zerointerest in lighting it was a
two year program at an artschool that costs so little at
the time and moved intoHollywood.
I worked in film a lot.
I was a dresser, props dresser,set dresser, which I really
(02:29):
loved Built scenery.
I was an art director.
I was a production designer.
I worked on lots of likehigh-end commercials, like Bose
speakers and Apple, and lots ofbeer like Budweiser and
Budweiser Light, and then,because there's still lighting
to come- Right, because you saidyou were totally not interested
in lighting.
(02:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I saw the work of fineartists that use light in their
work at various museums.
I saw that work a lot new workand old work and I saw that I
could design a space aroundthese things that I found in
hardware stores light bulbs andfluorescent tubes that could
make light and turn on and offvery quickly and make a new
(03:11):
space.
And I started lighting my ownlittle sets and immediately the
phone started ringing with thesereally well-known.
You know, in the late 80s andearly 90s there was a huge
performance art scene in thiscountry.
Well, rachel Rosenthal, thisreally interesting lady, called
me that she had been performing.
She was an older lady whoshaved her head and I started
(03:33):
working with her, lighting hershows, and eventually we had
five different shows that wewould do and john fleck was one
of the nea four and he was myfirst la boyfriend.
I started lighting his work anddoing little sets for him and
then, like well-known directorswould call me, but all these
people would say the same thing.
They'd say, hey, I saw thatshow you did.
(03:54):
That's how I see my work.
Do you want to come light mywork?
And I'd say, like I am not alighting designer at all, like I
did.
I did that little show or twoand I'm a trained set designer,
I know how to make shows and butI don't know anything about
lighting.
And they all said you know what, that's okay, come try this,
and if it works, that's great,and if it doesn't, it's no big
(04:17):
deal.
Which was like really hard tosay no to, you know, because
these people were like makingreally interesting work and they
were all really well-known.
So I just started lightinglittle shows and each show got
bigger so I was learning abouttheatrical lighting at the same
time.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Do you prefer working on live shows or film?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Once I became a lighting designer, I lit a music
video when I lived in LA andthat was shot on film.
It was a Janet Jackson musicvideo.
I lived in LA and that was shoton film this Janet Jackson
music video but that was forfilm and I did not understand
how film captured light at all.
I had a lot of help from the DPand the director.
(04:58):
Now that film is digital orcameras are digital and the
cameras mostly see what the eyesees.
I've lit some things in the lastfew years, like I lit part of
that mildred pierce on hbo.
Really, yeah, I lit there's awhole concert thing in the
middle of it that I spent a lotof time on it's minutes of the
(05:18):
film but I spent two months onit.
That was digital and so whatyou see with your eyes, kind of
what the camera sees, and youcan have a monitor that with
your eyes, kind of what thecamera sees, and you can have a
monitor.
That's very similar to what'sexactly what the camera's going
to see.
That's much easier to light andbalance and that I could
understand.
I like that no reviewer isgoing to come to it and review
it and I like that we don't gothrough that process that we go
(05:41):
through in New York City withtheater which is, but I assume,
assume, when the lighting isright, the reviewers will not
even notice anything.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
It's only yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
I think I've been mentioned in reviews, like I
mean maybe 10 times I mean showsthat I've won Tony's for, like
they don't even mention thelighting.
It's just like no, they justdon't talk about they don't
people know how to talk about it.
They don't recognize it, theydon't see it.
They don't talk about it.
They don't recognize it, theydon't see it.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
They don't see it, I know.
So let's say, a director or aproducer comes to you a Broadway
show.
After four Tonys, I'm sure alot of them come to you Somewhat
.
Yes, so they come to you with aplay.
First of all, do you have tolive the play that you work on.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Do I have to like it?
Yeah, you know, when you lighta show, a musical, you have to
hear those songs a lot like overand over and over and over and
over.
If I don't like the music or ifI don't get the music, I would
say no.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Once you design the lighting, do you have to be
there for every show?
Speaker 1 (06:40):
No, you're pretty much off the case.
Like once a show opens, you'redone because they can't afford
to have programmers and theyhave to pay everyone to work
more.
So do you.
That plan is not to pay anyonedo you automate the lighting?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
yeah?
Speaker 1 (06:54):
yeah, so uh, there's a programmer, which that is a
great field to get into.
There's a huge console we callit which is a computer.
It gets more complicated everyyear and there's a person I talk
to and they program thelighting into that console and
then come opening night, thatperson's moved on to another job
(07:15):
.
I've moved on, my assistantsmoved on, my associates moved on
, and then there's a group ofpeople in the theater who
maintain the show and there'sone guy who presses.
You just press go.
The stage manager calls a cuelike q1 go, q2 go, q3 go.
So it's like that the producerwould come to you and offer you
(07:35):
the job or director uh, allkinds of people uh, it's usually
a director will call me and say, hey, I'm doing this thing and
I'll be like I'll find out whoelse is working on it and send
me the script so I'll read itand listen to it.
Sometimes it's an unfinishedscript.
Sometimes, if it's an opera andit's new, you get nothing other
than like a topic because itdoesn't exist yet.
(07:58):
For an opera uh, for musical.
Sometimes there's a recordingof like a workshop so you get
the recording.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
What do you do?
You start drawing what you'regonna do?
Speaker 1 (08:07):
I just listen to it.
I just sit and listen to it.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
You get the atmosphere.
I mean, what inspires you?
Usually just let.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
What is the story?
What?
What's the music like?
What kind of music is it?
I do a lot of shows withelectric guitars.
I do a lot of like rock popshows.
I mean, everyone does now, butI had done, I have done a lot of
like rock theater shows.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Do you do special effects in those, like special
effects with light?
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Oh yeah, I mean yeah, yeah, just smoke.
Lots of smoke effects,lightning effects, fire effects,
like flame in a barrel and likewhat else Lightning, you know?
Like flame in a barrel and likewhat else Lightning, you know?
Rain, things like that.
For Swept Away that I just didon Broadway, I hung 30
industrial-sized carpet dryerfans around the theater, why
(08:56):
there was a huge storm in theshow and so we had wind blowing
through the entire theater.
It was really neat.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
That's part of your job.
I would think that's part ofyour job.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
I would think that's part of the set designer no,
that it's a, it's an effect,it's a special effect that I
knew how to do.
We had rain in the show too,but that I didn't know how to do
and we had, I think scenerykind of took care of that so
when you did 30 fans, that musthave been very noisy, no it was,
but it's a really loud stormand the storm covered it up.
(09:26):
But yeah, when you turned it onit sounded like you were in a
huge HVAC system.
I mean, it was quite a loudrumble.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Right, but you didn't hear it when the storm ran.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
It was really amazing , but you'd feel it and it would
stop and start and stop andstart and the whole theater felt
it.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
It was really neat stop and start and the whole
theater felt it was really neat.
Wow, that's an experience foran audience.
I'm sure that's pretty cool.
Yeah, wind, did you ever workwith a diva, either in opera or
film or theater, that complainedabout the lighting?
She doesn't want wrinkles toshow, or something.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
No, I mean you.
We are, we are obligated toespecially take care of the
women and make sure they lookgood, and especially the older
women.
They want to look good, but youalso, like I, go up and talk to
them often and tell them howgood they look and you're
looking great, and they want toknow that you're taking care of
them understandably.
And those, those women who arelike solid show women, like
(10:20):
patty lapone and honor mcdonaldthey're like not divas at all,
they're amazing.
They want to look good and ifthey didn't, they would tell you
.
But you take care of them andthey're amazing women.
I worked with Faye Dunaway notlong ago and that was, that was
an absolute trip.
Why?
Well, she's by far the mostcomplicated person I've ever
(10:44):
worked with, but also was likefascinating, you know.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Oh really.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Everything I was hoping it would be.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
She was amazing.
Who was the greatest to workwith from all the women?
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Oh, patti's amazing.
I did a lot of things withPatti LuPone and Audra McDonald.
They're all just like show folk.
Those are all just like Patti'slike a Jersey mom.
I mean, those are all just likeshow folk.
Those are all just like patty'slike a jersey mom.
I mean, those are all just likeshow folk.
You know, they're great.
They show up early to workevery day and they work hard and
when all the kids like leave onbreaks or lunch, they're like
(11:15):
still working and they'll stayafter and work and those are
really really hard working smartpeople and I love they're, you
know, and they're show folk.
They're funny and weird andneurotic and you know everything
that show folks are and fromthe guys who was the most
difficult to work with.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Difficult, oh pleasure I can't.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
There were some like super lazy tenors who were just
like coasting through the show.
They're just handsome guys whokind of coast.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
We talked before that you don't know really about pay
, because after four Tonys andeight nominations right, that's
correct.
This is crazy, kevin.
It's crazy.
So you're on a total differentechelon.
But if somebody starts, yes,can you give us an idea?
What can they make?
Speaker 1 (12:04):
I have no idea.
You know I'm in a union.
We have minimums for designerson shows.
I don't make minimum.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Do you know what the minimum is?
Any idea?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Well, it's plays and musicals are different.
A Broadway musical there'sphases, there's like a musical
with one set, then there's amusical with two sets.
There's all these differentcategories.
I think it's like 12 or 16 or17 or 18 000 for a show, for a
week for a show.
For a show not for a week, uh,then you get paid.
(12:37):
If you design a broadway show,you get a weekly royalty.
If a show does well, what doyou mean?
Speaker 2 (12:43):
weekly royalty?
Wait, I never heard about that.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah , that's how we make money.
If a show runs, like the LionKing or Book of Mormon or so
many other shows that aren't myshows, if a show runs, every
week that it runs, you get paid.
And then you get paid a minimumwhich in the last few years is
like $500 or $750 or $1,000 aweek, and then on top of that
(13:08):
there's cycles of royalties.
So every four weeks they countup the box office, they deduct
the cost of running the show,then they divide what's left up.
Everyone has a percentage basedon their contract the writers,
the, the director, thechoreographer, the designers,
the actors.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
It's the creative side, what they call but wait, I
need to understand this becauseI never heard about it before?
Yes so let's say you work onthe lion king you design the
lighting.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Let's say that.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Okay, yes and you designed everything.
Everything is now basically onhalf automated.
Maybe you have somebody thatpushed.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
You still get the royalties.
You still get the royalties,but then, hold on, it gets
better.
So then your production of thelion king is running in new york
and then it's running in la andmany other places correct.
It tours around the us and theworld.
One or two tours it's runningin dubai and south africa and
(14:09):
fucking shanghai, it's all overthe world.
Yeah, yeah, and you get paidfor all of those oh, wow indeed,
that's a great job.
Indeed not many.
There aren't many designers onbroadway and there certainly
aren't many people that haveshows that run like that.
But, yes, that's where you canmake some money, like.
(14:29):
I have two tours out now thatfrom shows I did on Broadway
that are selling really, really,really well and you make a lot
of money.
Wow, yeah yeah, that's a sweetthing, correct.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
So whoever worked on the Phantom of the Opera didn't
have to work again.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
She died.
But correct, she was found deadin her tub.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
but yes, Really, oh my God, I feel guilty for
laughing, no, no, no no, no, theset designer.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
I mean you know people die and that show was a
long time ago.
But yeah, I mean yes, yes, yeah, yeah, I mean they made that
was a show from the 80s.
So they, like people make somuch more now because of current
contracts.
But yeah, those people made alot of money.
They were making that was an80s contract, so they were
making not near what people makenow yeah, but they made it for
(15:18):
30 some years, yeah oh, totally.
And that show ran everywhere andtoured everywhere right every
day, every week, you get a checkfrom all those Wow In Didi,
it's great, okay, which.
If you do a show in Vegas mostshows in Vegas that you design
they don't have royalties, theyjust pay you one big lump sum.
Some shows will give royalties,weekly royalties, but a lot of
(15:40):
shows will just pay you a chunkof money and then you open the
show and you're done.
I mean, a fee could be 50 000or 60 or 80 or you know
something like that.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Wow yeah, it doesn't take that long to design a show.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Right to design lighting for a show I spend
about a year in pre-productionon the show.
I mean, that's not every daybut if we start a show out of
town, I start usually a yearbefore that we start in meetings
, lots of meetings.
Then the set is designed, thenwe do the plot.
So you know, that's like fourhours here, four hours there,
(16:13):
four hours you know it's notevery day.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
A year that's a lot of work correct and you're on
the job.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
You're doing other shows also, then rehearsals like
four or five weeks.
I myself this, most peopledon't do this but I go to like
three weeks of that rehearsal.
Then you're in the theater foruh tech.
So, like in tech, uh come in at10, work 10 to 12 and we start
rehearsal and stage at one andthen we'll go to like a shorter
day is like one to nine, butsometimes we'll go to one to ten
(16:42):
or 1 to 10 30.
So I'm there like maybe 8 inthe morning till 10, 30 at night
.
Wow, but I have a lot of workto do and I you know I have a
lot to do.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
So do you actually hang the lights too, or you have
people?
Are you kidding?
Speaker 1 (16:57):
no, I don't, wouldn't , I've never touched, I wouldn't
know how to do that.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
No, there are people who do that for a living so you
just give orders, put this lightthere, put we draw it all out.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
And then my associate draws it all out.
There's a productionelectrician.
The show hires a productionelectrician.
He's like the head electrician.
He takes the drawings, hefigures it all out like where
everything's going to run.
He oversees the hanging, theinstallation of the plot.
Because when you do a Broadwayshow you're renting a completely
empty theater.
(17:28):
There's nothing in a theater nolights, no rig, nothing.
There's no lights, there's noWi-Fi, there's no air
conditioners.
There's a whole wardrobedepartment that needs washers
and dryers and steamers andhangers and shelves.
There is nothing.
They bring everything forproduction.
(17:48):
Correct, it is an empty box.
I mean you might have like anAC unit in a window here and
there for a dressing room andthere might be some chairs in a
dressing room and that's it.
It is an empty building.
So we each department gets allthis stuff and installs it all
and that's part of like the loadin and the.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
So you're installing like a complete business in a in
a theater so part of your jobis to order all the different
lights that you're going to needfor the show yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
So my associate makes a shop order with the
production electrician becauseevery this all comes out of a
shop that they bid on, and thenthere's a weekly rental cost
okay and every single cablescrew piece of gel gel holder.
Everything you would ever needis in that shop order.
(18:39):
I don't understand what most ofit means, because it's like
monitors and monitors and allkinds of cable and I mean it's
just like pipe and ladders andgenie lifts and you get an empty
box of a building that you haveto put a show up in that's so
crazy.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I thought that they give it to you with the lights
and you just change them around.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
No, no, no, no, because those lights, well,
every show is different, everyset's different, so you need
lights in different places.
But also, now, lighting is likeif you went into a theater, you
would want to update all thatstuff.
You know now, like movinglights are changing so quickly,
so we get whatever's on theshelves that's probably newer
(19:20):
and install it all, and thelights aren't going to hang at
the same place every time.
Yeah, but anyway, to answeryour question, I don't hang the
lights.
There are, then, electriciansthat are hired by the show and
maybe whoever owns the theater Ihaven't quite figured this out
and they hang the lights and Igo in and watch occasionally and
(19:42):
point.
I'm not allowed to touchanything.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Oh, because it's a different union, of course it is
, but also they take pride in menot needing to touch things,
but like on a film.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
It's definitely like don't touch that.
Like it's, that's definitelyunion, divided labor of who
touches what.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
So yes, do you find that it helped you that you
worked at your earlier lifebefore you got into lighting?
You work in sets.
You worked in that.
Do you feel that it helps youthat you worked at your earlier
life before you got intolighting?
You work in sets.
You worked in that.
Do you feel that that helpedyou in your profession at the
moment?
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, totally, because a lot of what I.
There's two kinds of lightingto me.
There's the kinds of lightingwhere the lights are visible,
there's no masking, and theoverhead lights are visible and
the side lights are visible.
Or I have things more insidethe space that are visible and
the side lights are visible, orI have things more inside the
space that are visible.
Those things are reallyinformed by my work as a set
designer how they occupy thespace and how they frame the
(20:32):
space and all this stuff, uh.
Second kind of lighting is thelights are not seen because
they're all behind masking andborders.
Right, that's more just liketraditional theater lighting
right like, I think, most of thethings I did at the
Metropolitan Opera, the lightingwas hidden.
Half the things I do onBroadway I did a lot of shows
(20:53):
where the lighting was visible,like American Idiot and Spring
Awakening, but about half theshows I do now the lighting's
not visible.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
We mentioned before, before we started to record how
technology changed over theyears, can you give us a little
taste of what it's like now,compared to what it was?
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Yeah, on the planet Earth.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
No, you're not on Mars yet.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
We have just gone through, in the last 16, 17, 18
years, we've gone through thistransition of this energy
efficiency transition To LED, toLED In your homes, the deli,
the big box store, in thetheater, in the theater.
Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
That happened all in just 14 or15 or 16 years.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
But can you have like a direction light with an LED?
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I mean it was quite crude.
I think the first LEDs wereused on Broadway, like in the
early 2000s, mostly just tolight backgrounds, right,
because they were.
I can see that.
Yeah, like Spring Awakening, Ihad these huge walls and they
were lit with LED Next to normal.
I had a background that was litwith LED led and then
eventually the color improvedand the direction the thing
(22:08):
you're talking about and youcould light humans with led.
Like for spongebob, the musical, I didn't have much gel at all
and it was the people, thebackgrounds and the scenery and
the people were lit with led.
Often there's no heat buildup.
You would get on a set that'stight and that heat just builds
(22:29):
up, right, especially likebehind, and now it doesn't and
it's great and you don't changecolor as much because color is
not burning or it's LED.
It's like making the color.
I did three musicals onBroadway that used a huge amount
of fluorescent light SpringAwakening, next to Normal and
Passing Strange.
Each used a tremendous amountof fluorescent tubes and
(22:53):
fluorescent light bulbs and noneof that stuff exists anymore.
The cool thing about LED is itcomes in all these different
shapes and gadgets and doodadsand sizes, so there's a huge
amount of lighting instrumentswe can choose from, but they're
LED and the colors have gottenquite nice.
You can light humans now.
(23:13):
It is changing so quickly, thelighting industry.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
How do you keep up with the changes?
How do you know?
Speaker 1 (23:19):
now I have young associates who know what's going
on.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
You read about it all the time.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yeah, and they go see .
They work on lots of differentthings and they know what the
shop has and they know they'relike, oh, you might really like
this, or there's this new lightthat's come out with no fan,
it's really quiet and you mightlike it.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
and they know okay, I have to ask you about all the
tony's that you want yes firstof all, I want to know about the
first one.
When you got the phone call,what did you feel?
Speaker 1 (23:48):
you get nominated, so you get a call in the morning.
Usually my agent calls me andsays hello, how are you this
morning?
And I'll say oh, what's goingon?
I'm just lying here in bed.
Is something happening?
We have this old game we play.
Then it used to be four weeksbetween the time you're
nominated and the Tony Awards.
Now it's five weeks, so that'storture.
(24:10):
And then the awards are in June.
It's hot and you have to getdressed up.
That part's a pain, like whatare you going to wear?
It's hot.
It's a long, long, long, long,long, long day and night.
But the biggest thing ispreparing a speech.
Like, oh my God, I have to getup in front of the entire world
(24:31):
at Radio City Music Hall and saysomething.
So I'll like practice andpractice and practice and
practice and practice.
That that's the scariest thing.
Then, once you get through that, it's a different night.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
So you were nominated eight times and won four times.
Correct, so the four times thatyou lost were you highly
disappointed.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
No, the first time I didn't win.
I was nominated twice that yearand I knew that.
Which shows were there?
Hair and Next to Normal, and Ihad won the year before.
I'd won two years before.
So you know, I didn't have anycomplaints and to be nominated
twice was amazing.
Yes, but it's really hard towin.
And also I knew that BillyElliot would win.
(25:15):
Someone had told me like, ifyou know you're not going to win
when you go, it's a much funnernight.
And boy, is that true?
Oh, really, yeah, because youcan wear relaxed shoes, you can
just enjoy the night.
And that four or five weeks oftorture between the time you're
nominated and the night there'sless torture.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
How come you knew you're not going to win?
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Like I could tell you months ago what's gonna win
this year.
You said sunset boulevard.
You think will win this year.
Yeah, probably, I knew thatlike the day they open, they're
probably gonna win it.
I interviewed the makeup personfor that and the wig maker yeah
no, that would probably win thelighting for lighting this year
, the winning nights.
I just it's a long night and Iend up just like on the sofa,
sleeping like.
Just like it's so tense.
It's a lot to go through.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
And you make a lot more money after you win, right,
I mean, your career just takesoff.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yeah, in theory I mean Spring Awakening like
really moved me to a differentcategory of designer and that
included more money.
But partly that was becausethat show really I was like 40
something and that show reallyshowed off my ideas I had been
(26:23):
working on for years reallyclearly.
So I had really good ideas thatwere presented in a really good
show, that were really on theradar, and so it was not only
that I got a Tony, but it waslike that I did some excellent
work that really shined.
All that together kind of madelike a career life change.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Is there one show or performance that you worked on
that excited you the most, thatyou're proud of the most?
Speaker 1 (26:46):
I worked on Hedwig and the Angry Inch.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Many, many, many times, which was a fantastic
show.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we started.
I worked in the firstoff-Broadway production in 97, I
think we did that at theWestbeth, which is not even
there anymore.
We opened at the Jane StreetTheater on February 14th 1998,
and ran for two and a half years.
I designed Hedwig in severalcities.
We couldn't give the ticketsaway.
No one wanted to come see arock and roll drag queen.
(27:12):
No one knew what that was, orno one cared what that was, and
then I did it on Broadway in2014.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
And that's when you got the.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Tony, I did, I did, but I always loved working on
that show because I just lovethe songs.
By the time we got to 2014,people knew the show, People
knew the songs.
Like I said, in the 90s wecouldn't give those tickets away
because the movie came out andall this stuff and people were
just.
It was sold out every night andthey brought this amazing
(27:42):
energy in and they couldn't waitto be in this room with Hedwig
and it was so thrilling.
You know, they were just.
They were so open to it andexcited by it and yeah that's
neat, excellent, that part'sgreat.
All and yeah, that's neat,excellent, that part's great,
all right, and on that, note.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Thank you, yes, so much for doing it so interesting
.
Yeah, yeah, I, the royaltything really.
Wow, I didn't know about it.
That's how we now.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I wish I was alive.
I know that's how we make a lotof money okay, that's a wrap
for today.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
If you have a comment or question or would like us to
cover a certain job, please letus know.
Visit our website athowmuchcanimakeinfo.
We would love to hear from you.
And, on your way out, don'tforget to subscribe and share
this episode with anyone who iscurious about their next job.
See you next time.
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