May 6, 2025 • 23 mins
TV Camera Woman
What does it take to capture the perfect shot on your favorite TV shows? Lisa Rosenberg pulls back the curtain on her remarkable long career as a TV camera operator, in the studio and on location. She shares stories that most viewers never get to see. Perhaps most fascinating are Lisa's candid observations of celebrities and their treatment of the crew. She distinguishes between those who acknowledge the humanity of technical staff and those who don't .
Topics
0:00 Breaking Into TV Camera Operation
3:49 Studio Work vs. Field Work
6:15 Breaking Into the Industry as a Woman
8:38 Celebrity Encounters: The Good and Bad
10:29 Union Rates and Negotiating Pay
16:04 Behind the Scenes of Late Night TV
20:56 The Challenge of Live TV and Automation
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Music credit: Kate Pierson & Monica Nation
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Actually, I was on a vice presidential debate in
October and I didn't have acough drop unwrapped and my
throat started to close up and Istarted to have to cough and I
was on a long, long lens all theway on Tim Walz.
I couldn't shake.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Hi, welcome back to how Much Can I Make.
I'm Erav Ozeri, a curiousjournalist who always want to
know how much people can earn ontheir jobs.
Ever wondered who is behind thecamera that captures your
favorite TV shows?
Today's guest, lisa Rosenberg,has been behind some of the
biggest shows on television theTonight Show, jimmy Fallon, good
(00:46):
Morning America, 60 Minutesthat's just to name a few.
She is a seasoned TV cameraoperator, with stories from
behind the studio floor andremote shoots across the country
.
Let's find out what it takes toget the perfect shot.
And let's just roll, lisa.
Thank you so much for your timemy pleasure, and willing to do
(01:07):
that, my pleasure.
We'll start with how did youbecome a camera woman?
It must have not been easy fora woman.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I was really lucky in that I was in Washington DC,
which is a fairly progressivecity, I think, at the time for
women in media.
I worked at the campus radiostation at University of
Maryland where I went and Iminored in photography and
majored in radio, tv, film, andI had an internship in radio at
(01:41):
Public Radio in Washington.
And when I got out of college Iwent looking for a job in radio.
It was during the Carteradministration and they had just
passed the equal opportunitiesabout bringing up women and
minorities.
And I went to this televisionstation and they said would you
like to get in a camera traineeprogram for news for television?
(02:04):
And I would work as an audioperson in the field, first in
news.
I started off as an audiooperator but my partner was a
very he was like a very farthinking guy and he knew that I
was a good photographer and thatI would make a good camera
operator and he trained me.
I started to get rotated in aslike a camera operator there and
(02:26):
I joined the union throughthere.
They, you know, required me tojoin the union.
I was just really lucky.
If affirmative action hadn'tbeen in place I wouldn't have
even thought to look for a jobdoing.
I didn't realize how good a jobit was.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I saw on your resume that you worked on a lot of TV
shows that are not news.
You started in news.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I started in news in Washington in ENG.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Electronic news gathering.
That's what it is Exactly.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
And I had friends who had already moved to New York
and when I went up there Irealized there was a whole other
world of camera work.
Besides news, Affirmativeaction was still pretty firmly
in place and I got hired atChannel 5 within a week To shoot
what kind of things News?
Yeah, but the news guys were notkind to me.
(03:13):
Guys, because there was nowomen, would sabotage my
equipment.
What yeah, they would bend mycables so my video would come
back bad.
It was a really bad scene andit was just they'd never had any
women working there and I thinkI think the FCC said to them
you have to hire women engineersnow because you have so few,
(03:34):
and a bunch of us all the sameage were hired as once and the
guys that were working therewere not happy about that.
I left within six months.
I got wind that you know therewas a lot of freelance work up
here and I just quit.
Somebody like hit me that therewas studio work as well and I
realized multi-camera was awhole different kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
It's a lot less physically demanding in a studio
, right.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Sometimes, yeah, I mean, you could be doing
handheld in a studio as well,which I did for a while.
But multi-camera is like adifferent kind of physical.
You have to physically move.
You know the dollies.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
You know, in the field, it's more your shoulders
and your back, whereas whenyou're working in a studio, it's
more your arms and your legsdoing it.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Let's say you know you're going to work on a show X
Before you start shooting.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
You have to have meetings and decide what angle,
what you're going to do.
How does it work?
Definitely Well, I mean, whenyou're hired on a show, say you
know, and every daytime TV, oreven you know evening shows,
they're all freelance.
You have like a permalance crew.
You know they'll say are youavailable for this many weeks,
or something.
But if you're lucky, before youwork on a show you'll get some
observation days to see what theother camera operators do and
(04:55):
watch their different positions.
When you're on a crew, the moreyou work together, the director
gets to know your strengths.
It's almost like you're a, likea small orchestra.
You know some people are verygood at being able to follow
somebody while walking backwardsand holding focus.
(05:16):
I was very good always atfinding shots very quickly, like
in an audience or when movingaround.
So on every show you have acamera meeting and you might get
shot sheets or you might getyou know they'll give you the
rundown of what you're going todo.
The more you work with thedirector, the more he knows Lisa
(05:36):
or Bob or Bill or whoever isbest at this angle or works
together better here.
So you know you get to knowyour strengths and stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
You have the director in your headphones all the time
.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yes, Say you're on a show with six cameras, Okay, you
know you'll do a comms check, acommunications check, early in
the day to make sure yourheadset is working, to make sure
you hear the director, to hearthe assistant director, who's
the person next to the director,who is like pre-setting the
shots.
You know, if say cameras twoand four are going, the
(06:11):
assistant director say all right, five.
You got to remember to movearound because you're going to
be getting somebody coming infrom another entrance and moving
with them.
So you always hear at least twopeople in your headset whatever
they say you have to do.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
If somebody wants to get a young woman, wants to get
into the business of camerawoman for television, what kind
of skills are the most importantskills, Besides learning how to
operate the camera?
Speaker 1 (06:38):
obviously learning how to get along with guys.
I mean because they're you knowthey can be patronizing.
I think that men you know arevery different than the way they
work in a crew, than with women.
When I was younger I think Itried to be a lot more like
strident and powerful, but asyou get older you learn that you
(07:01):
really have to like sort ofpatronize men but kind of you
know, yeah, okay.
Okay.
You understand that whatthey're saying is wrong, but it
might be the time to just likedisagree with them later or
something.
In live TV.
I mean, I've had guys likealmost physically move in front
of me or challenge me.
So you have to be aggressiveenough that if something like
(07:23):
that happens, you know how tohandle it and it's happened to
me many times but at the sametime you have to have a spirit
of cooperation, I guess.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
So what advice would you say to someone who wants to
break?
Speaker 1 (07:38):
into the business, I would find a mentor.
There's one woman I know andshe's incredibly successful
camera operator, one of the bestin the business, and been doing
it a really long time andhonestly, when she started she
used to show up at shoots thatshe wasn't booked on and she
would bring like cupcakes to theguys and stuff.
And you know talking, I wasalways like so creeped out by it
(08:01):
.
I thought that's so weird andshe was always very obsequious.
But you know what?
She started getting hired byeverybody and she is certainly
one of the most successfulpeople in the United States.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah, and she's very good.
But a lot of people are verygood.
But you know she that was theway she felt was her in to get
there and it was sort of creepyto me but it worked for her.
I remember people criticizingsaying she would show up with
cupcakes for this cameraman'sbirthday.
But you know, it did it, itworked.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
It worked.
Yeah, you happen to meetprobably a lot of celebrities
who impressed you.
The most.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
The ones that impressed me the most are the
ones that are nice to the crewpeople, because so many aren't.
I remember, early on I wasworking at Unitel, which is a
stage on 57th Street, and I wasdoing a show where I was working
as a lighting director and acamera operator and we were
going to interview BarbaraWalters and I was so excited
(09:02):
because, you know, barbaraWalters, she's news and she's
you know, really you know atrailblazer and everything, and
I thought I'd lit it beautifully.
You know, and I'm not alighting director per se, but
you know, I know what I'm doingI remember she came in with,
like I don't know, I think shehad another lighting director
she'd worked with there.
Basically, she looked around,she's like move this, move this,
(09:24):
move this.
She didn't say one word to me.
I was just heartbroken.
I thought she's going to comein and go wow, you know a woman
LD, a woman camera operator.
Literally she didn't evenacknowledge me and I've heard
that she's really nasty to crewsI worked on a show with, say,
like Joan Rivers, and she's thekind of person who would come up
(09:44):
and introduce herself to everyperson.
You know, hi, I'm Joan, nice tomeet you.
So many people are like that.
Everyone who's ever met BillClinton will tell you he comes
up to kids, loved you know ofhers, and I asked her, like I
(10:17):
was doing handheld, and at onemoment we had a break and I
asked her if she would sign them.
She just like pushed me out ofthe way and walked by.
You know people like that, Iremember, because they're nasty,
you know.
You mentioned the union?
Speaker 2 (10:29):
It's a union job, right, almost all are.
What is the union?
It's a union job, right, almostall are.
What is the going rate for aunion camera person?
Speaker 1 (10:36):
the scale rate.
Like IATSE is thecinematographers union, the
scale rate is pretty low and itdepends what you're on tv, a
video operator, it might be 500or 550 for eight, but for eight
hours.
But they're the union.
(10:57):
Jobs have changed so much, like, say, talk shows or reunion
shows or things like that.
They might ask you to work theycall them now California eights
, which has an hour built in forlunch or mostly it's 10 hours
and they'll give you thatincludes a meal.
You know, like when I worked onshows at NBC or ABC.
(11:18):
Like at NBC their scale is verylow.
It's, I don't know, 30, 40something an hour, which is low
for a camera operator.
But when you get booked on ashow like Jimmy Fallon or
another show, you say I won'twork for NBC rate, I want above
scale.
And then it's up to you tonegotiate.
(11:39):
And if you have a reputationyou might be able to negotiate.
But every show has a differentcontract with the union.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Where is the best place to work as far as pay?
Speaker 1 (11:50):
To get on a union show that's long-term, that pays
into your insurance, like unioninsurance and benefits, that's
like the best thing to get on.
And if you're good, like say,you're on a show like the Daily
Show or Stephen Colbert, theyvery much are protective of
(12:12):
their crew and they always triedto keep the same people on so
they would give them regularraises.
I guess the entertainment isthe highest rate but it's also
the hardest jobs to get becauseeverybody wants the same top
cameraman, whereas there youmight make, say, 125 an hour or
(12:33):
even 150 an hour.
If you were on a smaller showor something, you might make 80
an hour, 75 an hour.
There's a big swing.
No, it's not bad In studio workbecause you have so much more
of it and you have like longterm, for you know the season,
or something Like if somebodycalls me for a show they say
(12:54):
we're working September throughDecember and then you know
January through April.
What's your rate?
And I'll ask, obviously as highas I possibly could, but
they'll say we can't pay morethan let's just say 56 an hour.
That might be their union scaleand I would say something like
well, on another show I was ableto work as a different level of
(13:17):
union.
How about you get me 75 an hourand then you dicker back and
forth or something like that?
Speaker 2 (13:22):
but entertainment is definitely the highest paid,
yeah did you find out that youdevelop a certain skill that you
didn't have before becauseyou've been a camera woman?
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Definitely, I notice tiny things.
I mean that most people youknow don't notice.
From all my years of shootingand looking for things, you know
, like I might see a bug thatnobody else sees, or I see, you
know, something turned adifferent way.
I'm really good at picking upthings turned a different way.
Or I'm really good at pickingup things and from all my years
(13:54):
of doing like, say, working onentertainment tonight or working
in news, where you're lookingfor a certain person when
they're coming out of a building, I'm really good at spotting
people.
Like I'll be walking down thestreet and I'll say to my
husband oh, look, there's LauraLinney or something, and I'm
really good at spotting faces.
I do have to say I've got andI've become, I think, probably a
better photographer you knowbetter visually, of course, from
(14:17):
all these years of doing it.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Besides the physical, you know, having to carry a
heavy camera on your shoulderall day any mental stamina
that's needed?
That's a good question.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
On daytime TV there's a lot of topics that were, you
know, talk shows.
So you know you get like moreemotional on them.
But when you're on headsets andeverybody's joking and talking
and stuff and everybody wouldalways be like Lisa's the one to
cry, right, and I would be theone to cry.
So if you're shooting something, you have to be able to contain
your emotions enough to youknow you're doing very exacting
(14:52):
work with your fingers and youreyes but at the same time, I
guess, be listening and besensitive enough to like, if I'm
on a close up shot of you andyou're talking about something
really intense, to be able tomove, you know, gently and
slowly in, while not losing mycool.
You know I've been on hundredsof interviews where people are
talking about, you know,something horrible they've lost
(15:15):
a family member, whatever it isand you have to be able to
contain your emotions tophotograph it.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
You know, I guess, like any photographer, you said
that you freelance and you gofrom show to show.
Do you have to have your owncamera if it's not a studio, if
it's a handheld?
Speaker 1 (15:30):
No, you're like say you're working on, like the
Jimmy Fallon show, because Iworked on that quite a bit.
There might be eight camerasand one of them is a jib
operator who specializes in that.
There will be two handheldsthat are all run, you know, in
the studio by the videoengineers and they just get
(15:51):
shots of the audience.
No, not always.
Usually a handheld would be notgetting the audience so much
unless you had to be climbing upin the risers or something,
because it's shakier.
You know when you're handheldRight.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
So let's say they call you for Jimmy Fallon.
Let's take that first as anexample.
What is your day like as acamera woman?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
You come in at probably 10 and there might be
coffee, there might be craftservice you know, if you're
lucky there is If I hadn't beenon the show before, I walk
around and introduce myself andsay you know, I'm doing camera
three today or something, andthe stage managers are usually
the people who are controllingthe flow on the floor and
(16:32):
they'll say you know, nice tomeet you.
We have a camera meeting at1030.
So at 1030, you know, you're onthe set and you have a script.
There'll be a script somewhereand like shot sheets, and you'll
have a meeting with thedirector and he'll say, or she
will say these are the segmentswe're doing today, and then
we'll talk about each segment.
We might break and rehearsethem then, or we might rehearse
(16:55):
them out of order.
There might be somethingpre-taped, like, say, if it's a
musical act and they can't bethere when the rest of the show
is being taped, you mightpre-tape something earlier
without the audience, and thenthey would cheat.
You know the audience shots inlater If it's a demonstration or
a guest or something like that.
You'll do walkthroughs, you'llrehearse them.
(17:17):
So you might have lunch fromprobably one to two and then
you're back and you rehearseagain in the afternoon and then
the audience is loaded in about5.30, I think, or 4.30,
something like that.
You get them in, they have awarm-up comedian there, you're
looking at your shots, you'remaking sure your camera's okay
(17:38):
and then they'll start gettingcutaways.
You know when we're shootingthe audience and the stage
managers will say okay,everybody in the audience, look
sad, look happy, applaud ohreally.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
And then you shoot the audience and then they put
it in the show.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yes, that's done a lot.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Oh really.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Yes, always.
And then when the show startsit'll be live to tape.
Like, say, they'll start at sixo'clock and they'll try and
keep it as close to live aspossible.
If you screw up a shot it's notgoing to be covered.
I mean, it's going to be shotthat way.
You'll shoot it from six toseven and they'll have the
(18:16):
breaks for commercials.
But once you're live, you knowyou have to be ready to go all
the way through.
You've gone to the bathroombefore you have some water if
you need to.
You have cough drops, you know,in case you would cough during
the show it would.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
You know you'd hear the sound in the studio.
So you have everything ready togo.
You're very invisible, but yetyou're doing a very important
job on a TV show.
What's the biggestmisconception that people have
about camera people do you?
Speaker 1 (18:41):
think that's a really interesting question.
I think they're surprisedthere's so many of them and that
we move so much.
Like when I would have guestsinto any of the shows I would
work on.
You know any of the talk showsI would work on, dr Oz, tyra
Banks, I worked on so manydifferent shows.
People are always surprised howmuch we're moving around
(19:04):
because when you see it on TVthey're you know, static shots
and I think they don't realizehow physical it is.
That's probably a bigmisconception.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
If you could work on any TV show, past or present,
what would that be Saturday?
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Night Live.
Why I've?
Just because to me live TV isjust an incredible art and it's
so hard to get right and it'sreally demanding.
When I say that I have a bunchof friends who have worked on it
and it's a really hard gig.
You have to work really late,you're rehearsing, but I mean,
live TV is a buzz like nothingelse and it's like working on a
(19:43):
Broadway show or something.
It's a performance and at theend you know you're so proud of
yourself.
It's a real buzz.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
And at the end you're still, all you know, high from
I've.
I would love to work onsaturday night live.
What happens if you're in ashow and you start laughing.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Somebody says something and you know, you're
far enough away that, um, theyprobably wouldn't hear you but
on show, but the camera willshake oh well, I, I'm very good
at, you know, holding it in.
Actually, I was on vicepresidential debates in October
and I didn't have a cough dropunwrapped and my throat started
(20:20):
to close up and I started tohave to cough and I was on a
long, long lens all the way onTim Walsh.
I couldn't shake, but I wasreally holding it in.
I was like, wow, you knowreally, yeah.
And the director said to me areyou okay, do you need some help
?
And I can't answer.
And later on one of the audioguys said yeah, I sort of saw
(20:41):
you choking.
I was wondering if I shouldhave handed you a cough drug.
Of course you should have, butyou know you just have to really
hold it in and I wasn't able to.
I did shake a little bit andyou know it wasn't good, but you
know I'm human.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
What are the chances that they will automate a lot of
the cameras?
Speaker 1 (21:00):
A lot.
I mean, if you look at the newsnow, like my husband likes to
watch the CBS news it's allRoboCams I can see that there
isn't operators doing it anymore.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
That's in the studio.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
That's in the studio.
Okay, yeah, as far as in thefield, well, one job that I've
been doing, for I started inlike 1987, I started working for
the New York Public Library atLincoln Center.
They have a theater collectionand they shoot the Broadway
shows and we usually have fouror five cameras and we shoot
(21:35):
them one time live.
This isn't, you know, like forPBS or something, this is for an
archive and I've been doing itfor, you know, 40, almost 40
years, and there's several of usthat are really good at it that
they call.
And at the end of last yearthey told us they're going to go
with a company that puts inrobotic cameras in theaters and
(21:58):
it's not even directed in thetheater, it's directed remotely
at some facility and they sentaround a demo reel.
You know, I got, I looked at itand I mean it's nowhere near the
quality or the you know,discerning the shots that me or
my fellow operators would have.
But does everybody care aboutthat?
(22:19):
You know, if you looked at ityou might see, but not everybody
cares.
It's also, if you use that kindof setup it can be shot over
and over and, say, shown attheaters.
You know, you've seen theselive events where they show you
can do that easily.
It used to be.
There'd be one roboticsoperator, like at the Jimmy
(22:40):
Fallon show.
There was one operator whooperated cameras that sort of
went on the rail around theperimeter.
But now studios are thinkingwell, if I have, you know, 10
robotic cameras, maybe I canhave two camera operators to do
all of them.
And that's the kind of thingthat's happening more and more.
You know.
Now, on award shows and stuff,you see the robot cameras moving
(23:03):
around the front, whereasbefore you had to have you know
one person.
Is it the same quality?
Probably not, but you know whonotices, you know I notice, you
know you might notice, but right, all right, and on that note,
thanks.
Thank you very much, mypleasure.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
It was very interesting.
Yeah, okay, that's a wrap fortoday.
If you have a comment orquestion or would like us to
cover a certain job, please letus know.
Visit our website athowmuchcanimakeinfo.
We would love to hear from you.
And, on your way out, don'tforget to subscribe and share
(23:41):
this episode with anyone who iscurious about their next job.
See you next time.
Actually, I was on a vice presidential debate in
October and I didn't have acough drop unwrapped and my
throat started to close up and Istarted to have to cough and I
was on a long, long lens all theway on Tim Walz.
I couldn't shake.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Hi, welcome back to how Much Can I Make.
I'm Erav Ozeri, a curiousjournalist who always want to
know how much people can earn ontheir jobs.
Ever wondered who is behind thecamera that captures your
favorite TV shows?
Today's guest, lisa Rosenberg,has been behind some of the
biggest shows on television theTonight Show, jimmy Fallon, good
(00:46):
Morning America, 60 Minutesthat's just to name a few.
She is a seasoned TV cameraoperator, with stories from
behind the studio floor andremote shoots across the country
.
Let's find out what it takes toget the perfect shot.
And let's just roll, lisa.
Thank you so much for your timemy pleasure, and willing to do
(01:07):
that, my pleasure.
We'll start with how did youbecome a camera woman?
It must have not been easy fora woman.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I was really lucky in that I was in Washington DC,
which is a fairly progressivecity, I think, at the time for
women in media.
I worked at the campus radiostation at University of
Maryland where I went and Iminored in photography and
majored in radio, tv, film, andI had an internship in radio at
(01:41):
Public Radio in Washington.
And when I got out of college Iwent looking for a job in radio.
It was during the Carteradministration and they had just
passed the equal opportunitiesabout bringing up women and
minorities.
And I went to this televisionstation and they said would you
like to get in a camera traineeprogram for news for television?
(02:04):
And I would work as an audioperson in the field, first in
news.
I started off as an audiooperator but my partner was a
very he was like a very farthinking guy and he knew that I
was a good photographer and thatI would make a good camera
operator and he trained me.
I started to get rotated in aslike a camera operator there and
(02:26):
I joined the union throughthere.
They, you know, required me tojoin the union.
I was just really lucky.
If affirmative action hadn'tbeen in place I wouldn't have
even thought to look for a jobdoing.
I didn't realize how good a jobit was.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I saw on your resume that you worked on a lot of TV
shows that are not news.
You started in news.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I started in news in Washington in ENG.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Electronic news gathering.
That's what it is Exactly.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
And I had friends who had already moved to New York
and when I went up there Irealized there was a whole other
world of camera work.
Besides news, Affirmativeaction was still pretty firmly
in place and I got hired atChannel 5 within a week To shoot
what kind of things News?
Yeah, but the news guys were notkind to me.
(03:13):
Guys, because there was nowomen, would sabotage my
equipment.
What yeah, they would bend mycables so my video would come
back bad.
It was a really bad scene andit was just they'd never had any
women working there and I thinkI think the FCC said to them
you have to hire women engineersnow because you have so few,
(03:34):
and a bunch of us all the sameage were hired as once and the
guys that were working therewere not happy about that.
I left within six months.
I got wind that you know therewas a lot of freelance work up
here and I just quit.
Somebody like hit me that therewas studio work as well and I
realized multi-camera was awhole different kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
It's a lot less physically demanding in a studio
, right.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Sometimes, yeah, I mean, you could be doing
handheld in a studio as well,which I did for a while.
But multi-camera is like adifferent kind of physical.
You have to physically move.
You know the dollies.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
You know, in the field, it's more your shoulders
and your back, whereas whenyou're working in a studio, it's
more your arms and your legsdoing it.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Let's say you know you're going to work on a show X
Before you start shooting.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
You have to have meetings and decide what angle,
what you're going to do.
How does it work?
Definitely Well, I mean, whenyou're hired on a show, say you
know, and every daytime TV, oreven you know evening shows,
they're all freelance.
You have like a permalance crew.
You know they'll say are youavailable for this many weeks,
or something.
But if you're lucky, before youwork on a show you'll get some
observation days to see what theother camera operators do and
(04:55):
watch their different positions.
When you're on a crew, the moreyou work together, the director
gets to know your strengths.
It's almost like you're a, likea small orchestra.
You know some people are verygood at being able to follow
somebody while walking backwardsand holding focus.
(05:16):
I was very good always atfinding shots very quickly, like
in an audience or when movingaround.
So on every show you have acamera meeting and you might get
shot sheets or you might getyou know they'll give you the
rundown of what you're going todo.
The more you work with thedirector, the more he knows Lisa
(05:36):
or Bob or Bill or whoever isbest at this angle or works
together better here.
So you know you get to knowyour strengths and stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
You have the director in your headphones all the time
.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yes, Say you're on a show with six cameras, Okay, you
know you'll do a comms check, acommunications check, early in
the day to make sure yourheadset is working, to make sure
you hear the director, to hearthe assistant director, who's
the person next to the director,who is like pre-setting the
shots.
You know, if say cameras twoand four are going, the
(06:11):
assistant director say all right, five.
You got to remember to movearound because you're going to
be getting somebody coming infrom another entrance and moving
with them.
So you always hear at least twopeople in your headset whatever
they say you have to do.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
If somebody wants to get a young woman, wants to get
into the business of camerawoman for television, what kind
of skills are the most importantskills, Besides learning how to
operate the camera?
Speaker 1 (06:38):
obviously learning how to get along with guys.
I mean because they're you knowthey can be patronizing.
I think that men you know arevery different than the way they
work in a crew, than with women.
When I was younger I think Itried to be a lot more like
strident and powerful, but asyou get older you learn that you
(07:01):
really have to like sort ofpatronize men but kind of you
know, yeah, okay.
Okay.
You understand that whatthey're saying is wrong, but it
might be the time to just likedisagree with them later or
something.
In live TV.
I mean, I've had guys likealmost physically move in front
of me or challenge me.
So you have to be aggressiveenough that if something like
(07:23):
that happens, you know how tohandle it and it's happened to
me many times but at the sametime you have to have a spirit
of cooperation, I guess.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
So what advice would you say to someone who wants to
break?
Speaker 1 (07:38):
into the business, I would find a mentor.
There's one woman I know andshe's incredibly successful
camera operator, one of the bestin the business, and been doing
it a really long time andhonestly, when she started she
used to show up at shoots thatshe wasn't booked on and she
would bring like cupcakes to theguys and stuff.
And you know talking, I wasalways like so creeped out by it
(08:01):
.
I thought that's so weird andshe was always very obsequious.
But you know what?
She started getting hired byeverybody and she is certainly
one of the most successfulpeople in the United States.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah, and she's very good.
But a lot of people are verygood.
But you know she that was theway she felt was her in to get
there and it was sort of creepyto me but it worked for her.
I remember people criticizingsaying she would show up with
cupcakes for this cameraman'sbirthday.
But you know, it did it, itworked.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
It worked.
Yeah, you happen to meetprobably a lot of celebrities
who impressed you.
The most.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
The ones that impressed me the most are the
ones that are nice to the crewpeople, because so many aren't.
I remember, early on I wasworking at Unitel, which is a
stage on 57th Street, and I wasdoing a show where I was working
as a lighting director and acamera operator and we were
going to interview BarbaraWalters and I was so excited
(09:02):
because, you know, barbaraWalters, she's news and she's
you know, really you know atrailblazer and everything, and
I thought I'd lit it beautifully.
You know, and I'm not alighting director per se, but
you know, I know what I'm doingI remember she came in with,
like I don't know, I think shehad another lighting director
she'd worked with there.
Basically, she looked around,she's like move this, move this,
(09:24):
move this.
She didn't say one word to me.
I was just heartbroken.
I thought she's going to comein and go wow, you know a woman
LD, a woman camera operator.
Literally she didn't evenacknowledge me and I've heard
that she's really nasty to crewsI worked on a show with, say,
like Joan Rivers, and she's thekind of person who would come up
(09:44):
and introduce herself to everyperson.
You know, hi, I'm Joan, nice tomeet you.
So many people are like that.
Everyone who's ever met BillClinton will tell you he comes
up to kids, loved you know ofhers, and I asked her, like I
(10:17):
was doing handheld, and at onemoment we had a break and I
asked her if she would sign them.
She just like pushed me out ofthe way and walked by.
You know people like that, Iremember, because they're nasty,
you know.
You mentioned the union?
Speaker 2 (10:29):
It's a union job, right, almost all are.
What is the union?
It's a union job, right, almostall are.
What is the going rate for aunion camera person?
Speaker 1 (10:36):
the scale rate.
Like IATSE is thecinematographers union, the
scale rate is pretty low and itdepends what you're on tv, a
video operator, it might be 500or 550 for eight, but for eight
hours.
But they're the union.
(10:57):
Jobs have changed so much, like, say, talk shows or reunion
shows or things like that.
They might ask you to work theycall them now California eights
, which has an hour built in forlunch or mostly it's 10 hours
and they'll give you thatincludes a meal.
You know, like when I worked onshows at NBC or ABC.
(11:18):
Like at NBC their scale is verylow.
It's, I don't know, 30, 40something an hour, which is low
for a camera operator.
But when you get booked on ashow like Jimmy Fallon or
another show, you say I won'twork for NBC rate, I want above
scale.
And then it's up to you tonegotiate.
(11:39):
And if you have a reputationyou might be able to negotiate.
But every show has a differentcontract with the union.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Where is the best place to work as far as pay?
Speaker 1 (11:50):
To get on a union show that's long-term, that pays
into your insurance, like unioninsurance and benefits, that's
like the best thing to get on.
And if you're good, like say,you're on a show like the Daily
Show or Stephen Colbert, theyvery much are protective of
(12:12):
their crew and they always triedto keep the same people on so
they would give them regularraises.
I guess the entertainment isthe highest rate but it's also
the hardest jobs to get becauseeverybody wants the same top
cameraman, whereas there youmight make, say, 125 an hour or
(12:33):
even 150 an hour.
If you were on a smaller showor something, you might make 80
an hour, 75 an hour.
There's a big swing.
No, it's not bad In studio workbecause you have so much more
of it and you have like longterm, for you know the season,
or something Like if somebodycalls me for a show they say
(12:54):
we're working September throughDecember and then you know
January through April.
What's your rate?
And I'll ask, obviously as highas I possibly could, but
they'll say we can't pay morethan let's just say 56 an hour.
That might be their union scaleand I would say something like
well, on another show I was ableto work as a different level of
(13:17):
union.
How about you get me 75 an hourand then you dicker back and
forth or something like that?
Speaker 2 (13:22):
but entertainment is definitely the highest paid,
yeah did you find out that youdevelop a certain skill that you
didn't have before becauseyou've been a camera woman?
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Definitely, I notice tiny things.
I mean that most people youknow don't notice.
From all my years of shootingand looking for things, you know
, like I might see a bug thatnobody else sees, or I see, you
know, something turned adifferent way.
I'm really good at picking upthings turned a different way.
Or I'm really good at pickingup things and from all my years
(13:54):
of doing like, say, working onentertainment tonight or working
in news, where you're lookingfor a certain person when
they're coming out of a building, I'm really good at spotting
people.
Like I'll be walking down thestreet and I'll say to my
husband oh, look, there's LauraLinney or something, and I'm
really good at spotting faces.
I do have to say I've got andI've become, I think, probably a
better photographer you knowbetter visually, of course, from
(14:17):
all these years of doing it.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Besides the physical, you know, having to carry a
heavy camera on your shoulderall day any mental stamina
that's needed?
That's a good question.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
On daytime TV there's a lot of topics that were, you
know, talk shows.
So you know you get like moreemotional on them.
But when you're on headsets andeverybody's joking and talking
and stuff and everybody wouldalways be like Lisa's the one to
cry, right, and I would be theone to cry.
So if you're shooting something, you have to be able to contain
your emotions enough to youknow you're doing very exacting
(14:52):
work with your fingers and youreyes but at the same time, I
guess, be listening and besensitive enough to like, if I'm
on a close up shot of you andyou're talking about something
really intense, to be able tomove, you know, gently and
slowly in, while not losing mycool.
You know I've been on hundredsof interviews where people are
talking about, you know,something horrible they've lost
(15:15):
a family member, whatever it isand you have to be able to
contain your emotions tophotograph it.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
You know, I guess, like any photographer, you said
that you freelance and you gofrom show to show.
Do you have to have your owncamera if it's not a studio, if
it's a handheld?
Speaker 1 (15:30):
No, you're like say you're working on, like the
Jimmy Fallon show, because Iworked on that quite a bit.
There might be eight camerasand one of them is a jib
operator who specializes in that.
There will be two handheldsthat are all run, you know, in
the studio by the videoengineers and they just get
(15:51):
shots of the audience.
No, not always.
Usually a handheld would be notgetting the audience so much
unless you had to be climbing upin the risers or something,
because it's shakier.
You know when you're handheldRight.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
So let's say they call you for Jimmy Fallon.
Let's take that first as anexample.
What is your day like as acamera woman?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
You come in at probably 10 and there might be
coffee, there might be craftservice you know, if you're
lucky there is If I hadn't beenon the show before, I walk
around and introduce myself andsay you know, I'm doing camera
three today or something, andthe stage managers are usually
the people who are controllingthe flow on the floor and
(16:32):
they'll say you know, nice tomeet you.
We have a camera meeting at1030.
So at 1030, you know, you're onthe set and you have a script.
There'll be a script somewhereand like shot sheets, and you'll
have a meeting with thedirector and he'll say, or she
will say these are the segmentswe're doing today, and then
we'll talk about each segment.
We might break and rehearsethem then, or we might rehearse
(16:55):
them out of order.
There might be somethingpre-taped, like, say, if it's a
musical act and they can't bethere when the rest of the show
is being taped, you mightpre-tape something earlier
without the audience, and thenthey would cheat.
You know the audience shots inlater If it's a demonstration or
a guest or something like that.
You'll do walkthroughs, you'llrehearse them.
(17:17):
So you might have lunch fromprobably one to two and then
you're back and you rehearseagain in the afternoon and then
the audience is loaded in about5.30, I think, or 4.30,
something like that.
You get them in, they have awarm-up comedian there, you're
looking at your shots, you'remaking sure your camera's okay
(17:38):
and then they'll start gettingcutaways.
You know when we're shootingthe audience and the stage
managers will say okay,everybody in the audience, look
sad, look happy, applaud ohreally.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
And then you shoot the audience and then they put
it in the show.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yes, that's done a lot.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Oh really.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Yes, always.
And then when the show startsit'll be live to tape.
Like, say, they'll start at sixo'clock and they'll try and
keep it as close to live aspossible.
If you screw up a shot it's notgoing to be covered.
I mean, it's going to be shotthat way.
You'll shoot it from six toseven and they'll have the
(18:16):
breaks for commercials.
But once you're live, you knowyou have to be ready to go all
the way through.
You've gone to the bathroombefore you have some water if
you need to.
You have cough drops, you know,in case you would cough during
the show it would.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
You know you'd hear the sound in the studio.
So you have everything ready togo.
You're very invisible, but yetyou're doing a very important
job on a TV show.
What's the biggestmisconception that people have
about camera people do you?
Speaker 1 (18:41):
think that's a really interesting question.
I think they're surprisedthere's so many of them and that
we move so much.
Like when I would have guestsinto any of the shows I would
work on.
You know any of the talk showsI would work on, dr Oz, tyra
Banks, I worked on so manydifferent shows.
People are always surprised howmuch we're moving around
(19:04):
because when you see it on TVthey're you know, static shots
and I think they don't realizehow physical it is.
That's probably a bigmisconception.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
If you could work on any TV show, past or present,
what would that be Saturday?
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Night Live.
Why I've?
Just because to me live TV isjust an incredible art and it's
so hard to get right and it'sreally demanding.
When I say that I have a bunchof friends who have worked on it
and it's a really hard gig.
You have to work really late,you're rehearsing, but I mean,
live TV is a buzz like nothingelse and it's like working on a
(19:43):
Broadway show or something.
It's a performance and at theend you know you're so proud of
yourself.
It's a real buzz.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
And at the end you're still, all you know, high from
I've.
I would love to work onsaturday night live.
What happens if you're in ashow and you start laughing.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Somebody says something and you know, you're
far enough away that, um, theyprobably wouldn't hear you but
on show, but the camera willshake oh well, I, I'm very good
at, you know, holding it in.
Actually, I was on vicepresidential debates in October
and I didn't have a cough dropunwrapped and my throat started
(20:20):
to close up and I started tohave to cough and I was on a
long, long lens all the way onTim Walsh.
I couldn't shake, but I wasreally holding it in.
I was like, wow, you knowreally, yeah.
And the director said to me areyou okay, do you need some help
?
And I can't answer.
And later on one of the audioguys said yeah, I sort of saw
(20:41):
you choking.
I was wondering if I shouldhave handed you a cough drug.
Of course you should have, butyou know you just have to really
hold it in and I wasn't able to.
I did shake a little bit andyou know it wasn't good, but you
know I'm human.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
What are the chances that they will automate a lot of
the cameras?
Speaker 1 (21:00):
A lot.
I mean, if you look at the newsnow, like my husband likes to
watch the CBS news it's allRoboCams I can see that there
isn't operators doing it anymore.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
That's in the studio.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
That's in the studio.
Okay, yeah, as far as in thefield, well, one job that I've
been doing, for I started inlike 1987, I started working for
the New York Public Library atLincoln Center.
They have a theater collectionand they shoot the Broadway
shows and we usually have fouror five cameras and we shoot
(21:35):
them one time live.
This isn't, you know, like forPBS or something, this is for an
archive and I've been doing itfor, you know, 40, almost 40
years, and there's several of usthat are really good at it that
they call.
And at the end of last yearthey told us they're going to go
with a company that puts inrobotic cameras in theaters and
(21:58):
it's not even directed in thetheater, it's directed remotely
at some facility and they sentaround a demo reel.
You know, I got, I looked at itand I mean it's nowhere near the
quality or the you know,discerning the shots that me or
my fellow operators would have.
But does everybody care aboutthat?
(22:19):
You know, if you looked at ityou might see, but not everybody
cares.
It's also, if you use that kindof setup it can be shot over
and over and, say, shown attheaters.
You know, you've seen theselive events where they show you
can do that easily.
It used to be.
There'd be one roboticsoperator, like at the Jimmy
(22:40):
Fallon show.
There was one operator whooperated cameras that sort of
went on the rail around theperimeter.
But now studios are thinkingwell, if I have, you know, 10
robotic cameras, maybe I canhave two camera operators to do
all of them.
And that's the kind of thingthat's happening more and more.
You know.
Now, on award shows and stuff,you see the robot cameras moving
(23:03):
around the front, whereasbefore you had to have you know
one person.
Is it the same quality?
Probably not, but you know whonotices, you know I notice, you
know you might notice, but right, all right, and on that note,
thanks.
Thank you very much, mypleasure.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
It was very interesting.
Yeah, okay, that's a wrap fortoday.
If you have a comment orquestion or would like us to
cover a certain job, please letus know.
Visit our website athowmuchcanimakeinfo.
We would love to hear from you.
And, on your way out, don'tforget to subscribe and share
(23:41):
this episode with anyone who iscurious about their next job.
See you next time.
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