August 26, 2025 • 25 mins
Zoe Lewis
Zoe Lewis—aka “a band in a body”—takes us on a whirlwind tour of her music career, from her childhood in England to jamming her way through 70+ countries. Along the way, she’s collected grooves, stories, and a knack for turning tiny everyday moments into songs that caught the ear of big brands—and even Netflix.
If music’s in your veins and you can’t imagine doing anything else, or just wishing for a career change, this episode is a must‑listen.
website https://zoelewis.com/
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Music credit: Kate Pierson & Monica Nation
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm speeding down six .
Speeding down six.
I've been way too long.
I've got my fix.
Yes, I'm speeding down six.
Speeding down six.
I'm hurrying home.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I remember once I was performing and it was in this
cast party in New York, and LizaMinnelli was there and my heart
was.
I'd never sung the song soquickly in my life, but I
remember Liza coming up sayingyou were great.
I was speechless, wow.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
It was marvelous, and sometimes, when I'm all alone
with just a ukulele and amicrophone, hi, welcome back to
how Much Can I Make?
Speaker 4 (00:41):
I'm Elaba Zeri.
The song you just heard,Spitting Down Six, is by my
guest today, Zoe Lewis.
She is amazing.
Zoe does everything she writes,sings, performs, produces, and
she just has this way of turningregular moments into something
magical.
The Boston Globe called herequal parts musician and
(01:03):
storyteller, which is spot on.
Her songs have been everywhereBroadway, documentaries, movies,
even commercials and I've seenher live a few times.
Honestly, every show left mebuzzing.
I'm really excited to have heron today, so let's just jump in.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Zoe, thank you so much for doing it.
I've seen your shows over theyears.
I think you are brilliant yourlyrics, your performance.
So I have so many questionsthat I want to ask you.
But let's start with.
You've been called a band in abody.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Well, I'm a band in a body because I play so many
instruments and it was termedmany years ago.
I mean, I never thought aboutit.
But you know, I'm a pianoplayer first and foremost.
But then you know traveling.
You can't take your piano withyou, so I picked up the guitar
and then I found a ukulele andthen I jumped freight trains and
you can't even jump a freighttrain with a ukulele very easily
(02:04):
.
So I put a harmonica in mypocket and that's how I learned
to play harmonica.
And then I traveled the world.
You know people find musicalinstruments growing on the trees
or out of garbage can lids orfrom the coins in their pocket.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
From all your instruments, which one is your
favorite?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Well, the piano is the one I'm most proficient on.
So and that's what I learned asa child and I love it.
I can pour my heart out on thepiano.
But it was very good for me topick up other instruments and
unlearn what I'd learned,because then it kind of came out
of a purer place.
When I play the guitar, I don'tknow what on earth I'm doing.
(02:42):
I just stick my fingersanywhere and I'm like that's
nice.
But with the piano I used tothink about it more.
I mean, I still do think aboutit a bit, but I broke that
thinking about it and now I justsort of play from my heart.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Did you always know you want to be a musician?
At what age did you developthis musician?
Speaker 2 (03:02):
writer, songwriter, my mom always said she was tone
deaf and she wanted a child thatcould sing.
And she had me when she was 51.
So my brother's sister, 20years older.
So she said, not that we're areligious family, but she said
she prayed for a child thatcould sing.
So I always say when I came outof the womb I was singing.
I've always wanted to do musicand I didn't have a piano until
(03:23):
I was 13.
Always wanted to do music and Ididn't have a piano until I was
13.
My dad had a little sort oforgan thing that you know we'd
plug in and I'd play.
He was musical but he neverfollowed it.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
When did you start writing music?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Well, I was always writing poems.
I had.
I grew up with a lot ofchildren's verse in England
Robert Louis Stevenson and AAMilne.
I love all these magicalchildren's poems.
I still do read children'spoems because they're gorgeous.
Especially I've got books, andbooks of the old ones.
So I was always writing poemsand I was always singing and I
(03:56):
had piano lessons.
Without having a piano, I'd goaround to an old lady's house
every Sunday and I'd do mypractice, but of course I wasn't
playing the notes that were onthe page, I was just making it
up and because my mum was tonedeaf, you know, and having a cup
of tea with her friend, theythought I was just being a good
girl.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Your mum tone deaf.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Tone deaf meaning you know she can't sing in tune but
my dad could and apparently mymom's mom was could have been a
concert pianist, you know so soit runs in the family anyway, so
how did a girl from the uk endsup becoming an icon in
provincetown massachusetts?
Speaker 4 (04:37):
an icon?
Everybody knows you, everybodyloves you.
I talk to some people here well, like you know.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
So I come from a tiny village on the south coast of
England.
I'm from the water, you know.
I grew up going to the sea.
I would play my piano.
When I did get my piano, I was,they put it in my room and I
was in my room the whole timeplaying piano, teaching myself,
basically.
And then I joined a band, movedup to London, you know, when I
was 18.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
What kind of music did you play in the band?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Actually it was in the summer holidays and I said
to my parents, can I just be inthe band?
So the first band was sort ofpunk rock.
I didn't care what music it wasI was, they wanted a keyboard
player and I was in and Ithought this was the best.
I was happy as a clam.
In the back of the Melody Maker, which was the magazine in
(05:26):
England, the newspaper, I saw anad for a keyboard player.
I went to London, I took mysynthesizer and because I had a
synthesizer, then in 2006.
Anyway, I got into the band andthese kids were studying sort of
like performance art, like fame.
They were going to theMiddlesex Polytechnic in London
and they were studying all sortsof music and Latin had come in.
(05:48):
It was the Latin tinge theywere studying, I remember,
because Sade was playing Latinmusic.
And as soon as I heard thisLatin music we didn't have that
in my village, you know, it washard enough for me to find out
what jazz was and as soon as Iheard this my body reacted.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
I'm glad you're bringing up the Latin, because
one of the questions that I haveyour song Chili.
It's a great song.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
It has a very Latin feel to it A little bit of chili
, a little bit of lime Salt onthe rim and a little bit of
thyme.
You're gonna feel happy, you'regonna feel fine, You're gonna
feel very, very fine.
Sunday morning, the sound ofbells.
Dogs are barking the baconsmells.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah well, I traveled .
I've been to over 70 countriesnow.
When I left England really it'sbecause I wanted to come to the
States and come out I didn'trealize that I had my sights set
on San Francisco.
But you know, I wasn't thinkingthat.
I went across South and CentralAmerica and there were the
Latin grooves, me and mybackpack talk about band in a
(06:49):
body.
I was, that's where I waspicking up calabash off the
trees, jamming with everyone andseeping in like a little sponge
, all of these musical grooves.
So the Latin really spoke to me.
In England the music's very onthe beat and I'm attracted to
the offbeat.
I like swing, I love to swingand I love the Latin.
So I'm always headed towardsLatin countries.
(07:11):
The music's free, like thepeople, the rules are lax, the
weather's hot, people's hipsmove.
All of a sudden my hips weremoving to music.
It was good for me, it openedme up.
So my song Chili, full of theLatin grooves and inspired by my
winters in Mexico, becausethat's where I play every winter
now, in Puerto Vallarta.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
You have many different styles, for example
the song the Whale.
By the way, you have lots ofalbums.
I do have 10, do have, yes, youhave a lot of albums and great
songs, but the whale has kind ofa little um jazzy feel.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
The whale is right.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
A complete different style yeah, well, that's been my
detriment through the years,even though I people say you
can't put me in a box, which isa great thing, but then the DJs
never know which station to playme on.
Should they play me on the jazzstation, the world beat one,
the folk one, the children's one, the humorous one?
But you know, it's because I'vetraveled and I, like I said, I
(08:09):
was a sponge and I love all.
I love good music and that's it.
So I might be listening to someCape Verdean grooves.
For instance, I love CesareEvora, if you know her.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
I love her.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
And you know Portuguese and Brazilian mixed,
and Cape Verde.
I mean I'm like what are thesegrooves?
I would sit in my hammock andjust swing, like I'm sure the
people there did too.
It slows you down, you mellow.
These grooves are phenomenal,and the instruments they play on
.
So then you know you listen tothat enough, and then you go to
(08:41):
write and suddenly you'vewritten something with a vague
sort of Cape Verdean feel.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
The future's looking grim.
We're all in decline thehumpback and the fin, but the
worst fate is mine.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
What was the story behind the whale?
How did you come to the idea ofwriting a song about a whale?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Well, the whale is right.
You see, we have the rightwhales here.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
Here you mean in Provincetown, in.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Provincetown and they are endangered.
And you know why they'reendangered?
Because the whalers killed them.
They were the right whale tocatchers killed them and they
were the right whale to catchfor as far as they were
concerned.
So we're very excited now whenwe see a right whale here and
only a few hundred left, Ibelieve, on this planet and they
come through Provincetown.
So when the right whales comethrough, they are documented
(09:35):
very much and we rejoice andstudy them and I'm friends with,
like you know, scientists andpeople from the coastal studies
here, so we hear their reports.
Oh, I was thinking about allthat.
And the whale is right.
Nature knows far better than we.
I like to twist the words andyou know we need to listen to
the animals and listen to thewhale.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
So that's what that song is about and since we are
on the environment thing, youhave the song about the plastic
soup, yes, which I actuallyheard you sing live in front of
kids and I could imagine whatbrought you.
It's probably the plastic inthe pacific that we all know
about pacific garbage patch butwhat I want to know?
(10:16):
What is the reaction of theaudience when you sing that?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Oh well, I think everyone's on the same page.
It's just dire when you look upat how big these islands are,
these plastic islands that arefloating in the middle of the
oceans.
I don't like to preach when I'mon stage, but if you can tell a
story through someone's eyes,through an animal's eyes, I mean
, you make it personal.
I love to have children at theaudience because you know you
(11:00):
can make a huge impact.
They're our hope for the future.
And they get up there and theyall scream out no, we have to
stop using plastic.
It's very hard to stop usingplastic, but do you want to have
some plastic soup?
And the children scream out nobecause they love screaming out
no, and it gets the point across.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
Last year I saw your show Speakeasy.
Tell me about that show and howlong did it take you to put it
together, because that seemed tome like really hard.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah, that's a lot of work, the Speakeasy, but for me
it's all about community.
I love the 1920s.
I love all those old songswhere there were fabulous
melodies.
It could be maybe because myparents were older and I grew up
listening to some of those oldtunes.
I love the messages in some ofthem.
They're beautiful.
I would be in a restaurant andthe waiter would come and bring
(11:48):
some food and he'd be singing ashe arrived.
I'm like you've got a gorgeousvoice, would you like to be in
the show?
And then the lady in the bankis like humming a tune or the
mailman, and it's my communityoh those were all ordinary
people.
They were not musicians.
We have celebrities, we have, Imean, all people are ordinary
(12:08):
and fabulous.
So if you open your eyes oryour ears, you find them.
We've been doing it for over 10years.
I've had probably over 150different performers or if not
200.
You know, I find someone andnow everyone finds me.
But you know, they come over tothe house and we discuss which
song.
Do they know any songs from the20s?
(12:28):
Do you want to learn one?
Do you want to?
Do you want to be a lady or aman?
Because they dress up.
Do you want to be funny?
Do you want to croon?
And I love it because it's thegay 20s.
That was the time when anythinggoes.
So we have flappers, we havethe gorgeous cigarette girl, we
have debonair gents, we havetrombones, clarinets, kazoos, a
whole prohibition era jazz bandand over the years I've, you
(12:50):
know, had all these differentspectacular performers and, of
course, when they come and sitnext to me at the piano, they
tell me their life story and webecome friends.
Yeah, we all connect.
They tell me that they weretold they could never sing when
they were little and thank youso much.
I realize I can now.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
I know you have celebrities in the show too, but
just to use your mailman orwhatever.
How did it come to you to dothat?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Well, we live in a little artistic community and
it's the same like New York.
Look, every waiter is really anactor.
Everyone has other talents, youjust have to find them.
The Every waiter is really anactor.
Everyone has other talents, youjust have to find them.
The venue was great.
It sort of was like a speakeasy, and I always dreamed of doing
something like that, and Iprobably got a few singers that
I knew to come and help me andthen someone's like oh, did you
(13:36):
know?
So-and-so, they've got agorgeous voice.
They'd love to be in this.
Fantastic and it just grows.
We just had Kate Pearson joinedus.
We've had Margaret Cho LeahDelaria and the mailman.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
Now I know you toured with Judy Collins and the Go-Go
Girls Indigo Girls, IndigoGirls.
Sorry, Do you have any?
Speaker 2 (14:00):
wild memories from any of it.
What was the experience like?
It's wild for me playing on areally big stage because I'm
used to playing small venueswhere I can see people's eyes,
especially when you're theopening act and everyone's
waiting really for the nextperson.
You know, and it's just you.
You have to go up and be verybig.
I remember saying to Amy fromthe Indigo Girls how do you do
it when you can't see their eyesBecause it's all black up there
(14:22):
?
You just have the lights inyour eyes and she said you feel
them.
That was really good advice.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
And do you?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Yeah, you do feel them, but it's scary and it's
fast.
You know, I remember once I wasperforming and it was in this
cast party in New York and LizaMinnelli was there and my heart
was.
I'd never sung the song soquickly in my life.
Apparently I got through it soquickly and in quite a high
(14:48):
pitched way.
But I remember Liza coming upsaying you were great, I was
speechless, wow, it wasmarvelous, you know.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
I want to ask you about money.
I can understand how you makemoney with the indigo girls and
Judyins and all of that, butwhen you do like a show like
speak easy, that we spoke aboutor or other little show, how do
you make money?
Speaker 3 (15:09):
doing it.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Well, you don't pick the job as a musician to make
money.
But what I have learned is howto live small.
You can be very rich and havevery little.
You know, when I lived with thefamily in guatemala, they had
very little but they gave meeverything and I came back
feeling very full.
So then I came to Provincetownand I was lucky enough to find a
(15:31):
very cheap rental an old,dilapidated apartment next to
Spiritus Pizza.
You could see through thefloorboards and hear the
upstairs neighbor.
There were old oak beams, theysay Tennessee Williams used to
live there.
It was 500 bucks a month andfor 25 years I paid 500 bucks a
month.
That's what enabled me to domusic all those years.
(15:53):
What my first summer?
I had 13 shows a week and Isaved all my money.
And then I went traveling theworld.
The best things in life arefree, and if you just can have
enough in fact I'm trying towrite a song called Enough right
now, because what is enough?
Speaker 4 (16:07):
I read that you sold some of your song or licensed
some of your song to othermusicians.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
No, I've had my songs , some of them used by
commercials and films.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
That's a moneymaker.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
That, yes, talking about money, that was the best
money I ever had made.
It was a miracle.
And it's funny because I wrotea song called Small is
Tremendous, about the littlethings in life being much larger
.
Really, it's my philosophy inlife, you know, and that's how
Judy Collins found me.
I was playing in a musicfestival in Canada and this lady
(16:41):
with you know white hair keptwalking back and forth while I
was playing and Roxanne wasgiving me the eye and I didn't
know who it was.
And the next thing I knew shehad summoned me to her dressing
room and was offering me arecord deal and that song, small
is Tremendous, was on therecord.
I must say Wildflower Records.
They put the music out becauseI'm always doing it myself and I
(17:02):
don't necessarily get the songsout there, but that record got
out there and it was everywhere.
It was heard by an advertisingcompany.
They put in the word small ingoogle and I came up.
So small really was tremendousbecause they I came home from a
bike ride and on my answermachine in those days it was an
answer machine they were likeit's grey's agency, we're very
(17:24):
interested in licensing yoursong.
Can we talk to your lawyer?
And I was like, yes, can I getback to you?
Speaker 3 (17:29):
And then I was like how do I get a lawyer?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
So small was very big , small was very big, and then
Pringles potato chips.
Even put out a mini Pringle andthey contacted me.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
So yeah, I had Pringles and I also had.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Tj Maxx was a big label, small prices.
Who knows?
That's amazing, you don't.
You write a song and it has alife of its own if you can get
it out there which song made youthe most money?
I would say small is tremendous,and also a song I wrote a long
time ago called sheep, and I wasworking on a sheep farm in New
Zealand that, and I sat therewith all the sheep and there's I
did.
I just thought there was likeone kind of sheep.
There's like many differentkinds of sheep, with all
(18:09):
different kinds of wool anddifferent colors and different
black sheep, a white sheep, acurly sheep, a long horn a black
tongue.
And anyway there was a poster inthe barn and I wrote down all
the different sheep and I wroteabout these sheep and Putamaya
Records were doing compilationsin those barn and I wrote down
all the different sheep and Iwrote about these sheep and
Putamaya Records were doingcompilations in those days and
they used that song for theirfolk playground compilation.
(18:32):
It was played on aeroplanes.
It was for 18 weeks.
It was number one on the kidssatellite radio.
My mom heard it in England in agardening center.
I got.
I remember I was in France andI had the Today Show asked me to
be on it but I didn't know whatthe Today Show was and I turned
it down because I had a gig inthe Provincetown Library.
Oh please, zoe.
(18:54):
That's me but anyway, sheep didvery well for me and even you
know these kids.
You know I got another call nottoo long ago from Netflix.
I wrote eight songs forStorybots, which is a cartoon on
Netflix, a very popular one.
That made me quite a lot ofmoney too, and that was because
(19:18):
the guy Evan Spiridoulis, whomade the cartoon his kids loved
my sheep song and they played itin their house.
And of course they've grown upnow but I was on heavy rotation
all my songs in their houseapparently.
So when he wanted a songwriter,you know he contacted me.
You just never know.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
You never know Now.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
I have to ask and you don't have to answer if you
don't want to.
When you say it made you a lotof money, is it in the thousands
?
And you?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
don't have to answer if you don't want to, when you
say it made you a lot of money.
Is it in the thousands?
Yeah, I think I got maybe30,000, just that first
commercial and then another30,000, I think, for the next,
but then of course, the taxman.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Well of course, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
When I was writing for the Netflix thing, I
realized I really enjoyed havinga deadline and a mission.
It's not something that I'vedone too much, but when someone
says, zoe, write a song aboutthis or do this, I come up with
the goods.
I love dreaming up things.
I think you just, I'm justdreaming all the time about the
next thing.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
So you always have a song in your head going on?
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Yeah, I always have some sort of.
You know I'm working towardsthe next thing In my mind.
You know, like on the bicycleyou're like writing a song as
you go, or if you're swimmingthere's something going on in
your head and then you don'tforget it until you get home.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Nowadays, I do.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
In the old days I didn't.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
Now you said you traveled to many countries, over
70 countries.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Which one surprised you the most musically?
That's great question.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
One of my, favorite countries is Tahiti.
I was, I played a cruise inTahiti and they play ukulele
there.
They have a different style ofukulele, a Tahitian uke with the
sound hole in the back, and Icame home with one of those and
it is a beautiful soundinginstrument.
I was in Indonesia too, andthey have the gamelan and I
(21:05):
don't know enough about thatkind of music.
But to me, latin music is whatI love because it's much freer
and when I was with theIndonesian, it's regimented.
Everyone has their own part.
You know one person will begoing dong and another will go
diggity-boom, diggity-boom,diggity-diggity.
Another will go diggity, boom,diggity, boom, diggity, diggity,
boom, diggity.
(21:25):
You know it's.
It is a layer, like anorchestra.
It's beautiful but it's written.
There's not a lot of room forfreedom, for free expression.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
That's what I love about jazz and Latin music so if
you could keep one instrumentfrom all your collection, what
instrument?
Speaker 3 (21:43):
would that be?
Well, the piano is my numberone Right, but from all the
others.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
I saw you playing all kinds of things.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah, well, it would probably be the ukulele.
The ukulele.
Not that I'm that great on it,but I could get better on it if
I just would keep one and it'sso you can take it anywhere.
You know you can take it on thebeach, it's anywhere.
You know it's, you can take iton the beach, it's, it's a
wonderful and it doesn't hurtyour fingers, like the guitar.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Like the guitar.
Which one song you are nevertired of performing?
Speaker 2 (22:12):
these are great questions.
Well, I do like playing chilibecause I don't have to say
anything about it I love thatsong, by the way people just
move their seats.
I'm all about the story and allabout the lyric, but I love to
see the music just affect people.
As soon as I start doing aLatin groove, people like sit up
(22:32):
and something happens.
I mean it's fascinating towatch people around the world.
You know, if I do that, say ifI'm playing in a restaurant or
something, and there's anyone ofLatin ethnicity around, they'll
suddenly start, you know,salsaring to the music or
joining in.
If I do it in England, peoplesit cross-legged and smile at me
(22:53):
but then they'll start tryingto let go.
I just did it in Nebraska.
People had a real hard timeclapping on the offbeat.
They all clap on the beat, butit's really interesting.
So yeah, chile.
I always kind of enjoy mysouvenirs song clapping on the
offbeat.
They all clap on the beat, butit's really interesting.
So yeah, chilly.
I always kind of enjoy mysouvenirs song because that's
about a dear friend of mine,elona.
A mellow song.
(23:16):
It's a bit French, a bit ScottJoplin-y.
It evokes the past.
I have quite a lot of songsabout people who are not with me
anymore and when I sing themthere they are on my shoulder.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
Oh, fantastic.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
If your life had a theme song.
What would that be?
Welcome to the Circus.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Welcome to the Circus of Life.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Grab it by the horns.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
The other one is Don't Blink or You'll Miss it.
It's a crazy old world, but wehave to grab every moment.
You never know if we're goingto go tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
And we giggle, just like schoolgirls, to every lamb
chop joke, because laughter isthe medicine and music is the
hope we have to grab everymoment.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
You never know if we're going to go tomorrow, so
be kind and make the most ofevery second.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
All right, and, on that note, thank you so much.
I really enjoyed it and I wasliterally dreaming of
interviewing you, because I loveyour performances so much.
They're so poignant andintelligent and the music is
fantastic, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
You are the best, marat, thank you.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
I'm so happy to be on this podcast.
You know I'm glad.
Thank you, that's a wrap fortoday.
If you have a comment orquestion or would like us to
cover a certain job, please letus know.
Visit our website athowmuchcanimakeinfo.
(25:00):
We would love to hear from youand, on your way out, don't
forget to subscribe and sharethis episode with anyone who is
curious about their next job.
See you next time.
I'm speeding down six .
Speeding down six.
I've been way too long.
I've got my fix.
Yes, I'm speeding down six.
Speeding down six.
I'm hurrying home.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I remember once I was performing and it was in this
cast party in New York, and LizaMinnelli was there and my heart
was.
I'd never sung the song soquickly in my life, but I
remember Liza coming up sayingyou were great.
I was speechless, wow.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
It was marvelous, and sometimes, when I'm all alone
with just a ukulele and amicrophone, hi, welcome back to
how Much Can I Make?
Speaker 4 (00:41):
I'm Elaba Zeri.
The song you just heard,Spitting Down Six, is by my
guest today, Zoe Lewis.
She is amazing.
Zoe does everything she writes,sings, performs, produces, and
she just has this way of turningregular moments into something
magical.
The Boston Globe called herequal parts musician and
(01:03):
storyteller, which is spot on.
Her songs have been everywhereBroadway, documentaries, movies,
even commercials and I've seenher live a few times.
Honestly, every show left mebuzzing.
I'm really excited to have heron today, so let's just jump in.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Zoe, thank you so much for doing it.
I've seen your shows over theyears.
I think you are brilliant yourlyrics, your performance.
So I have so many questionsthat I want to ask you.
But let's start with.
You've been called a band in abody.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Well, I'm a band in a body because I play so many
instruments and it was termedmany years ago.
I mean, I never thought aboutit.
But you know, I'm a pianoplayer first and foremost.
But then you know traveling.
You can't take your piano withyou, so I picked up the guitar
and then I found a ukulele andthen I jumped freight trains and
you can't even jump a freighttrain with a ukulele very easily
(02:04):
.
So I put a harmonica in mypocket and that's how I learned
to play harmonica.
And then I traveled the world.
You know people find musicalinstruments growing on the trees
or out of garbage can lids orfrom the coins in their pocket.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
From all your instruments, which one is your
favorite?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Well, the piano is the one I'm most proficient on.
So and that's what I learned asa child and I love it.
I can pour my heart out on thepiano.
But it was very good for me topick up other instruments and
unlearn what I'd learned,because then it kind of came out
of a purer place.
When I play the guitar, I don'tknow what on earth I'm doing.
(02:42):
I just stick my fingersanywhere and I'm like that's
nice.
But with the piano I used tothink about it more.
I mean, I still do think aboutit a bit, but I broke that
thinking about it and now I justsort of play from my heart.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Did you always know you want to be a musician?
At what age did you developthis musician?
Speaker 2 (03:02):
writer, songwriter, my mom always said she was tone
deaf and she wanted a child thatcould sing.
And she had me when she was 51.
So my brother's sister, 20years older.
So she said, not that we're areligious family, but she said
she prayed for a child thatcould sing.
So I always say when I came outof the womb I was singing.
I've always wanted to do musicand I didn't have a piano until
(03:23):
I was 13.
Always wanted to do music and Ididn't have a piano until I was
13.
My dad had a little sort oforgan thing that you know we'd
plug in and I'd play.
He was musical but he neverfollowed it.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
When did you start writing music?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Well, I was always writing poems.
I had.
I grew up with a lot ofchildren's verse in England
Robert Louis Stevenson and AAMilne.
I love all these magicalchildren's poems.
I still do read children'spoems because they're gorgeous.
Especially I've got books, andbooks of the old ones.
So I was always writing poemsand I was always singing and I
(03:56):
had piano lessons.
Without having a piano, I'd goaround to an old lady's house
every Sunday and I'd do mypractice, but of course I wasn't
playing the notes that were onthe page, I was just making it
up and because my mum was tonedeaf, you know, and having a cup
of tea with her friend, theythought I was just being a good
girl.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Your mum tone deaf.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Tone deaf meaning you know she can't sing in tune but
my dad could and apparently mymom's mom was could have been a
concert pianist, you know so soit runs in the family anyway, so
how did a girl from the uk endsup becoming an icon in
provincetown massachusetts?
Speaker 4 (04:37):
an icon?
Everybody knows you, everybodyloves you.
I talk to some people here well, like you know.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
So I come from a tiny village on the south coast of
England.
I'm from the water, you know.
I grew up going to the sea.
I would play my piano.
When I did get my piano, I was,they put it in my room and I
was in my room the whole timeplaying piano, teaching myself,
basically.
And then I joined a band, movedup to London, you know, when I
was 18.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
What kind of music did you play in the band?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Actually it was in the summer holidays and I said
to my parents, can I just be inthe band?
So the first band was sort ofpunk rock.
I didn't care what music it wasI was, they wanted a keyboard
player and I was in and Ithought this was the best.
I was happy as a clam.
In the back of the Melody Maker, which was the magazine in
(05:26):
England, the newspaper, I saw anad for a keyboard player.
I went to London, I took mysynthesizer and because I had a
synthesizer, then in 2006.
Anyway, I got into the band andthese kids were studying sort of
like performance art, like fame.
They were going to theMiddlesex Polytechnic in London
and they were studying all sortsof music and Latin had come in.
(05:48):
It was the Latin tinge theywere studying, I remember,
because Sade was playing Latinmusic.
And as soon as I heard thisLatin music we didn't have that
in my village, you know, it washard enough for me to find out
what jazz was and as soon as Iheard this my body reacted.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
I'm glad you're bringing up the Latin, because
one of the questions that I haveyour song Chili.
It's a great song.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
It has a very Latin feel to it A little bit of chili
, a little bit of lime Salt onthe rim and a little bit of
thyme.
You're gonna feel happy, you'regonna feel fine, You're gonna
feel very, very fine.
Sunday morning, the sound ofbells.
Dogs are barking the baconsmells.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah well, I traveled .
I've been to over 70 countriesnow.
When I left England really it'sbecause I wanted to come to the
States and come out I didn'trealize that I had my sights set
on San Francisco.
But you know, I wasn't thinkingthat.
I went across South and CentralAmerica and there were the
Latin grooves, me and mybackpack talk about band in a
(06:49):
body.
I was, that's where I waspicking up calabash off the
trees, jamming with everyone andseeping in like a little sponge
, all of these musical grooves.
So the Latin really spoke to me.
In England the music's very onthe beat and I'm attracted to
the offbeat.
I like swing, I love to swingand I love the Latin.
So I'm always headed towardsLatin countries.
(07:11):
The music's free, like thepeople, the rules are lax, the
weather's hot, people's hipsmove.
All of a sudden my hips weremoving to music.
It was good for me, it openedme up.
So my song Chili, full of theLatin grooves and inspired by my
winters in Mexico, becausethat's where I play every winter
now, in Puerto Vallarta.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
You have many different styles, for example
the song the Whale.
By the way, you have lots ofalbums.
I do have 10, do have, yes, youhave a lot of albums and great
songs, but the whale has kind ofa little um jazzy feel.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
The whale is right.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
A complete different style yeah, well, that's been my
detriment through the years,even though I people say you
can't put me in a box, which isa great thing, but then the DJs
never know which station to playme on.
Should they play me on the jazzstation, the world beat one,
the folk one, the children's one, the humorous one?
But you know, it's because I'vetraveled and I, like I said, I
(08:09):
was a sponge and I love all.
I love good music and that's it.
So I might be listening to someCape Verdean grooves.
For instance, I love CesareEvora, if you know her.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
I love her.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
And you know Portuguese and Brazilian mixed,
and Cape Verde.
I mean I'm like what are thesegrooves?
I would sit in my hammock andjust swing, like I'm sure the
people there did too.
It slows you down, you mellow.
These grooves are phenomenal,and the instruments they play on
.
So then you know you listen tothat enough, and then you go to
(08:41):
write and suddenly you'vewritten something with a vague
sort of Cape Verdean feel.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
The future's looking grim.
We're all in decline thehumpback and the fin, but the
worst fate is mine.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
What was the story behind the whale?
How did you come to the idea ofwriting a song about a whale?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Well, the whale is right.
You see, we have the rightwhales here.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
Here you mean in Provincetown, in.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Provincetown and they are endangered.
And you know why they'reendangered?
Because the whalers killed them.
They were the right whale tocatchers killed them and they
were the right whale to catchfor as far as they were
concerned.
So we're very excited now whenwe see a right whale here and
only a few hundred left, Ibelieve, on this planet and they
come through Provincetown.
So when the right whales comethrough, they are documented
(09:35):
very much and we rejoice andstudy them and I'm friends with,
like you know, scientists andpeople from the coastal studies
here, so we hear their reports.
Oh, I was thinking about allthat.
And the whale is right.
Nature knows far better than we.
I like to twist the words andyou know we need to listen to
the animals and listen to thewhale.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
So that's what that song is about and since we are
on the environment thing, youhave the song about the plastic
soup, yes, which I actuallyheard you sing live in front of
kids and I could imagine whatbrought you.
It's probably the plastic inthe pacific that we all know
about pacific garbage patch butwhat I want to know?
(10:16):
What is the reaction of theaudience when you sing that?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Oh well, I think everyone's on the same page.
It's just dire when you look upat how big these islands are,
these plastic islands that arefloating in the middle of the
oceans.
I don't like to preach when I'mon stage, but if you can tell a
story through someone's eyes,through an animal's eyes, I mean
, you make it personal.
I love to have children at theaudience because you know you
(11:00):
can make a huge impact.
They're our hope for the future.
And they get up there and theyall scream out no, we have to
stop using plastic.
It's very hard to stop usingplastic, but do you want to have
some plastic soup?
And the children scream out nobecause they love screaming out
no, and it gets the point across.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
Last year I saw your show Speakeasy.
Tell me about that show and howlong did it take you to put it
together, because that seemed tome like really hard.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah, that's a lot of work, the Speakeasy, but for me
it's all about community.
I love the 1920s.
I love all those old songswhere there were fabulous
melodies.
It could be maybe because myparents were older and I grew up
listening to some of those oldtunes.
I love the messages in some ofthem.
They're beautiful.
I would be in a restaurant andthe waiter would come and bring
(11:48):
some food and he'd be singing ashe arrived.
I'm like you've got a gorgeousvoice, would you like to be in
the show?
And then the lady in the bankis like humming a tune or the
mailman, and it's my communityoh those were all ordinary
people.
They were not musicians.
We have celebrities, we have, Imean, all people are ordinary
(12:08):
and fabulous.
So if you open your eyes oryour ears, you find them.
We've been doing it for over 10years.
I've had probably over 150different performers or if not
200.
You know, I find someone andnow everyone finds me.
But you know, they come over tothe house and we discuss which
song.
Do they know any songs from the20s?
(12:28):
Do you want to learn one?
Do you want to?
Do you want to be a lady or aman?
Because they dress up.
Do you want to be funny?
Do you want to croon?
And I love it because it's thegay 20s.
That was the time when anythinggoes.
So we have flappers, we havethe gorgeous cigarette girl, we
have debonair gents, we havetrombones, clarinets, kazoos, a
whole prohibition era jazz bandand over the years I've, you
(12:50):
know, had all these differentspectacular performers and, of
course, when they come and sitnext to me at the piano, they
tell me their life story and webecome friends.
Yeah, we all connect.
They tell me that they weretold they could never sing when
they were little and thank youso much.
I realize I can now.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
I know you have celebrities in the show too, but
just to use your mailman orwhatever.
How did it come to you to dothat?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Well, we live in a little artistic community and
it's the same like New York.
Look, every waiter is really anactor.
Everyone has other talents, youjust have to find them.
The Every waiter is really anactor.
Everyone has other talents, youjust have to find them.
The venue was great.
It sort of was like a speakeasy, and I always dreamed of doing
something like that, and Iprobably got a few singers that
I knew to come and help me andthen someone's like oh, did you
(13:36):
know?
So-and-so, they've got agorgeous voice.
They'd love to be in this.
Fantastic and it just grows.
We just had Kate Pearson joinedus.
We've had Margaret Cho LeahDelaria and the mailman.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
Now I know you toured with Judy Collins and the Go-Go
Girls Indigo Girls, IndigoGirls.
Sorry, Do you have any?
Speaker 2 (14:00):
wild memories from any of it.
What was the experience like?
It's wild for me playing on areally big stage because I'm
used to playing small venueswhere I can see people's eyes,
especially when you're theopening act and everyone's
waiting really for the nextperson.
You know, and it's just you.
You have to go up and be verybig.
I remember saying to Amy fromthe Indigo Girls how do you do
it when you can't see their eyesBecause it's all black up there
(14:22):
?
You just have the lights inyour eyes and she said you feel
them.
That was really good advice.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
And do you?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Yeah, you do feel them, but it's scary and it's
fast.
You know, I remember once I wasperforming and it was in this
cast party in New York and LizaMinnelli was there and my heart
was.
I'd never sung the song soquickly in my life.
Apparently I got through it soquickly and in quite a high
(14:48):
pitched way.
But I remember Liza coming upsaying you were great, I was
speechless, wow, it wasmarvelous, you know.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
I want to ask you about money.
I can understand how you makemoney with the indigo girls and
Judyins and all of that, butwhen you do like a show like
speak easy, that we spoke aboutor or other little show, how do
you make money?
Speaker 3 (15:09):
doing it.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Well, you don't pick the job as a musician to make
money.
But what I have learned is howto live small.
You can be very rich and havevery little.
You know, when I lived with thefamily in guatemala, they had
very little but they gave meeverything and I came back
feeling very full.
So then I came to Provincetownand I was lucky enough to find a
(15:31):
very cheap rental an old,dilapidated apartment next to
Spiritus Pizza.
You could see through thefloorboards and hear the
upstairs neighbor.
There were old oak beams, theysay Tennessee Williams used to
live there.
It was 500 bucks a month andfor 25 years I paid 500 bucks a
month.
That's what enabled me to domusic all those years.
(15:53):
What my first summer?
I had 13 shows a week and Isaved all my money.
And then I went traveling theworld.
The best things in life arefree, and if you just can have
enough in fact I'm trying towrite a song called Enough right
now, because what is enough?
Speaker 4 (16:07):
I read that you sold some of your song or licensed
some of your song to othermusicians.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
No, I've had my songs , some of them used by
commercials and films.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
That's a moneymaker.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
That, yes, talking about money, that was the best
money I ever had made.
It was a miracle.
And it's funny because I wrotea song called Small is
Tremendous, about the littlethings in life being much larger
.
Really, it's my philosophy inlife, you know, and that's how
Judy Collins found me.
I was playing in a musicfestival in Canada and this lady
(16:41):
with you know white hair keptwalking back and forth while I
was playing and Roxanne wasgiving me the eye and I didn't
know who it was.
And the next thing I knew shehad summoned me to her dressing
room and was offering me arecord deal and that song, small
is Tremendous, was on therecord.
I must say Wildflower Records.
They put the music out becauseI'm always doing it myself and I
(17:02):
don't necessarily get the songsout there, but that record got
out there and it was everywhere.
It was heard by an advertisingcompany.
They put in the word small ingoogle and I came up.
So small really was tremendousbecause they I came home from a
bike ride and on my answermachine in those days it was an
answer machine they were likeit's grey's agency, we're very
(17:24):
interested in licensing yoursong.
Can we talk to your lawyer?
And I was like, yes, can I getback to you?
Speaker 3 (17:29):
And then I was like how do I get a lawyer?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
So small was very big , small was very big, and then
Pringles potato chips.
Even put out a mini Pringle andthey contacted me.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
So yeah, I had Pringles and I also had.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Tj Maxx was a big label, small prices.
Who knows?
That's amazing, you don't.
You write a song and it has alife of its own if you can get
it out there which song made youthe most money?
I would say small is tremendous,and also a song I wrote a long
time ago called sheep, and I wasworking on a sheep farm in New
Zealand that, and I sat therewith all the sheep and there's I
did.
I just thought there was likeone kind of sheep.
There's like many differentkinds of sheep, with all
(18:09):
different kinds of wool anddifferent colors and different
black sheep, a white sheep, acurly sheep, a long horn a black
tongue.
And anyway there was a poster inthe barn and I wrote down all
the different sheep and I wroteabout these sheep and Putamaya
Records were doing compilationsin those barn and I wrote down
all the different sheep and Iwrote about these sheep and
Putamaya Records were doingcompilations in those days and
they used that song for theirfolk playground compilation.
(18:32):
It was played on aeroplanes.
It was for 18 weeks.
It was number one on the kidssatellite radio.
My mom heard it in England in agardening center.
I got.
I remember I was in France andI had the Today Show asked me to
be on it but I didn't know whatthe Today Show was and I turned
it down because I had a gig inthe Provincetown Library.
Oh please, zoe.
(18:54):
That's me but anyway, sheep didvery well for me and even you
know these kids.
You know I got another call nottoo long ago from Netflix.
I wrote eight songs forStorybots, which is a cartoon on
Netflix, a very popular one.
That made me quite a lot ofmoney too, and that was because
(19:18):
the guy Evan Spiridoulis, whomade the cartoon his kids loved
my sheep song and they played itin their house.
And of course they've grown upnow but I was on heavy rotation
all my songs in their houseapparently.
So when he wanted a songwriter,you know he contacted me.
You just never know.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
You never know Now.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
I have to ask and you don't have to answer if you
don't want to.
When you say it made you a lotof money, is it in the thousands
?
And you?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
don't have to answer if you don't want to, when you
say it made you a lot of money.
Is it in the thousands?
Yeah, I think I got maybe30,000, just that first
commercial and then another30,000, I think, for the next,
but then of course, the taxman.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Well of course, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
When I was writing for the Netflix thing, I
realized I really enjoyed havinga deadline and a mission.
It's not something that I'vedone too much, but when someone
says, zoe, write a song aboutthis or do this, I come up with
the goods.
I love dreaming up things.
I think you just, I'm justdreaming all the time about the
next thing.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
So you always have a song in your head going on?
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Yeah, I always have some sort of.
You know I'm working towardsthe next thing In my mind.
You know, like on the bicycleyou're like writing a song as
you go, or if you're swimmingthere's something going on in
your head and then you don'tforget it until you get home.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Nowadays, I do.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
In the old days I didn't.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
Now you said you traveled to many countries, over
70 countries.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Which one surprised you the most musically?
That's great question.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
One of my, favorite countries is Tahiti.
I was, I played a cruise inTahiti and they play ukulele
there.
They have a different style ofukulele, a Tahitian uke with the
sound hole in the back, and Icame home with one of those and
it is a beautiful soundinginstrument.
I was in Indonesia too, andthey have the gamelan and I
(21:05):
don't know enough about thatkind of music.
But to me, latin music is whatI love because it's much freer
and when I was with theIndonesian, it's regimented.
Everyone has their own part.
You know one person will begoing dong and another will go
diggity-boom, diggity-boom,diggity-diggity.
Another will go diggity, boom,diggity, boom, diggity, diggity,
boom, diggity.
(21:25):
You know it's.
It is a layer, like anorchestra.
It's beautiful but it's written.
There's not a lot of room forfreedom, for free expression.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
That's what I love about jazz and Latin music so if
you could keep one instrumentfrom all your collection, what
instrument?
Speaker 3 (21:43):
would that be?
Well, the piano is my numberone Right, but from all the
others.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
I saw you playing all kinds of things.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah, well, it would probably be the ukulele.
The ukulele.
Not that I'm that great on it,but I could get better on it if
I just would keep one and it'sso you can take it anywhere.
You know you can take it on thebeach, it's anywhere.
You know it's, you can take iton the beach, it's, it's a
wonderful and it doesn't hurtyour fingers, like the guitar.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Like the guitar.
Which one song you are nevertired of performing?
Speaker 2 (22:12):
these are great questions.
Well, I do like playing chilibecause I don't have to say
anything about it I love thatsong, by the way people just
move their seats.
I'm all about the story and allabout the lyric, but I love to
see the music just affect people.
As soon as I start doing aLatin groove, people like sit up
(22:32):
and something happens.
I mean it's fascinating towatch people around the world.
You know, if I do that, say ifI'm playing in a restaurant or
something, and there's anyone ofLatin ethnicity around, they'll
suddenly start, you know,salsaring to the music or
joining in.
If I do it in England, peoplesit cross-legged and smile at me
(22:53):
but then they'll start tryingto let go.
I just did it in Nebraska.
People had a real hard timeclapping on the offbeat.
They all clap on the beat, butit's really interesting.
So yeah, chile.
I always kind of enjoy mysouvenirs song clapping on the
offbeat.
They all clap on the beat, butit's really interesting.
So yeah, chilly.
I always kind of enjoy mysouvenirs song because that's
about a dear friend of mine,elona.
A mellow song.
(23:16):
It's a bit French, a bit ScottJoplin-y.
It evokes the past.
I have quite a lot of songsabout people who are not with me
anymore and when I sing themthere they are on my shoulder.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
Oh, fantastic.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
If your life had a theme song.
What would that be?
Welcome to the Circus.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Welcome to the Circus of Life.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Grab it by the horns.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
The other one is Don't Blink or You'll Miss it.
It's a crazy old world, but wehave to grab every moment.
You never know if we're goingto go tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
And we giggle, just like schoolgirls, to every lamb
chop joke, because laughter isthe medicine and music is the
hope we have to grab everymoment.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
You never know if we're going to go tomorrow, so
be kind and make the most ofevery second.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
All right, and, on that note, thank you so much.
I really enjoyed it and I wasliterally dreaming of
interviewing you, because I loveyour performances so much.
They're so poignant andintelligent and the music is
fantastic, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
You are the best, marat, thank you.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
I'm so happy to be on this podcast.
You know I'm glad.
Thank you, that's a wrap fortoday.
If you have a comment orquestion or would like us to
cover a certain job, please letus know.
Visit our website athowmuchcanimakeinfo.
(25:00):
We would love to hear from youand, on your way out, don't
forget to subscribe and sharethis episode with anyone who is
curious about their next job.
See you next time.
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