August 26, 2025 • 35 mins
You know that voice in your head that whispers "everyone else has it figured out" while you're standing in some big box store with your keys in one hand, searching for a shopping list you can't find, wondering how you ended up in the home dècor aisle when you came for toilet paper? We're talking about ADHD shame—where it comes from, why it sticks around, and how to finally tell that voice to shut up.
- Get the full list of sources and even more content from this episode’s blog post.
- Subscribe to our newsletter!
—
Who Should Listen
This episode is for anyone with ADHD who's tired of feeling like a "failed adult," sick of apologizing for existing, or fed up with that internal critic that never seems to take a day off. If you've ever been called "too much," "not enough," or "lazy," we see you—and we're here to help you fight back.
—
What You Get In This Episode
- The "shame smoothie" breakdown – How childhood experiences, societal myths, and internalized ableism blend into one toxic mess
- Where ADHD stigma really comes from – Why people still think it's "just a childhood disorder" or an excuse for bad behavior
- How shame shows up in your daily life – From procrastination cycles to over-apologizing to comparing yourself to neurotypical parents
- 7 practical strategies to fight shame – Including how to separate ADHD science from morality and why "shamelessness" might be your superpower
- Your ADHD strengths reminder – Because creativity, hyperfocus, and persistence are actual superpowers
—
Bios
Caitlin is joined by special guest Ariella Monti, novelist and friend, filling in for Jenny. Together they're tackling the heavy stuff—ADHD shame and stigma—with the same humor and honesty you'd expect from your most understanding mom friends. They're not therapists, just two women sharing what they've learned through research, experience, and plenty of "oh crap, me too" moments.
—
Sources
- All sources and more content in this episode’s blog post
- Get 20% off Ariella Monti's fantasy romance novel "Roots and Ink" with promo code CKANDGK at AriellaMonti.com
- ADDitude Mag
- Our ADHD Playlist on Spotify
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Love,
CK & GK
View our website at ckandgkpodcast.com. Find us on social media @ckandgkpodcast on
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Thanks, y'all!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Caitlin Kindred (00:00):
Okay, well, as I stretch and try to talk at the
same time, hi, friends, we'reall meaning.
The two of us, ariella and I,are so glad you're here.
Welcome to how to Be a Grownup.
This is the how-to show formoms who've deep breath,
screamed into a pillow today, orreally ever.
Did you hear about the group ofpeople chicago who go out like
(00:24):
once a week and scream into thevoid over the lake?
Ariella Monti (00:27):
I saw a like a post about it, but I didn't read
any of the details.
But the post was enough for meto be like I get it.
Caitlin Kindred (00:36):
Yeah, it was on um, cnn does a like five good
things podcast and it was onthat a couple weeks ago and then
I the, so, the, so she meets,just picked it up.
So but it's funny and I waslike this man knows, this man
gets it sometimes you just needto go scream into the void.
Yeah, they do it like three bigscreams and then they all just
(00:57):
like go on their merry way.
Ariella Monti (00:59):
It's hilarious all right, they don't even like
go out for like drinks oranything after.
Caitlin Kindred (01:08):
They're just like all right I think it's like
sunday morning or somethinglike that.
But yeah, just they just go outand scream and think all about
their day.
It's pretty funny home, yep,exactly go to church sometimes
you right, sometimes you justneed to get it out and then keep
on moving right right uh, okay,well, with me today is ariela
(01:32):
monte, who's the novelist and aneuro spicy mom of a neuro spicy
child, and she's also asucculent of resilience.
That sounds inappropriate.
She thrives on chaos and looksgood doing it.
Ariella Monti (01:47):
Ariel Lamonti.
Folks, I can't.
I sit here completely likeunshowered.
That's part of the chaos.
Caitlin Kindred (01:54):
Listen, I'm unshowered too.
I did change my clothes, but Iam unshowered.
It is what it is, folks.
It is what it is Today we'retalking about.
We're cracking up, but the topicis actually kind of serious.
We're talking about the shameand stigma surrounding ADHD, so
you know all the things thatmake ADHDers feel some type of
(02:15):
way about themselves and howother people seem to perceive
ADHD.
I got thoughts, so we're goingto share those, but before we do
, let's make sure you'resubscribed to this show, okay,
so if you haven't already,please hit follow or whatever it
is on your favorite podcast appthat lets you get updates from
your favorite shows so you don'tmiss any episodes.
(02:36):
Yes, yes, okay, so, um, asalways, our sources are us and
Attitude Mag, because AttitudeMag is the best.
I also have been puttingtogether an ADHD playlist on
Spotify, so everything thatwe've been talking about related
to ADHD is all in this oneplaylist, and you can find that
(02:59):
link in the show notes so youcan get the rundown on ADHD
stuff.
According to us and somescience, we're fact adjacent on
this show, so it works right.
Ariella Monti (03:10):
We cite our sources though.
Caitlin Kindred (03:12):
We do cite our sources.
It's not like I just make it up.
Yeah, no, no.
Ariella Monti (03:17):
So we cite our sources and this is just like
the audio version of you know,know your junior year research
paper in college can you pleasewrite that up as a testimonial?
Caitlin Kindred (03:30):
I might.
I can put it in.
I'm just gonna have it as likeone of the scrolling
testimonials on our website.
Have you seen our website?
Go check out our website.
It's at ck and gk podcastcomand hopefully ariela will give
me that quote and I'm yourjunior year research.
Ariella Monti (03:51):
You know it's done at like the last minute,
but the information's good.
You just hope that you know youput all the information
together in the right way sothat it makes sense and you
didn't practice delivering itbecause you didn't have time for
that.
Caitlin Kindred (04:04):
You figured you'd just wing it, so whatever
right, I believe it's calledauthenticity right, that's what
it is in the current speak um sothis episode is for all the
people who have been toldthey're too much or they're
extra, or they're not enough andnot extra.
Like how jenny dresses up forall of the occasions extra.
That's not what we're talkingabout here.
Like just, they're big.
(04:25):
What's the taylor swift thing?
She says like your energy islike currency, right.
Some people just can't affordyour energy oh, right, yeah okay
, um, or maybe you feel likeyou're a failed adult because
you can't just focus, or youcan't get it together.
And you're listening to theshow because it's called how to
be a grown-up, and we're tryingand you're listening to us try
(04:46):
to teach you um, but that's alla part of adhd shame, and so
today we're talking about whereit comes from, why it sticks
with you and how to startunlearning that.
So, again, as ariela says, oneyour mileage will vary on this,
so please take what you need andleave the rest.
But as the juniors in your,your research, whatever, let me
(05:10):
try that again.
As you learned from the otherjuniors in your history and
english classes, none of us aremental health professionals.
None of them were either.
Don't, don't.
Don't.
Treat our advice like it's truemedical advice.
It's not.
We're just doing the best wecan here on our junior year
(05:30):
project so right, let me notsniff it and clear my throat
into the microphone.
Believe that's podcasting?
Bad practices?
Okay, so shame and stigma andadhd.
Do you ever feel that way?
You ever feel like the weird,like ADHD, guilt and shame, oh
my.
Ariella Monti (05:49):
God, it's like.
It's like it is the reoccurringtopic in therapy All the time.
Not so much the stigma, thoughI don't.
I don't notice.
I'm not saying that it's notthere.
I don't notice, I'm not sayingthat it's not there.
I'm just saying that, like Ipersonally have not experienced
(06:09):
the stigma, probably because Isurround myself with so many
neurodivergent people butdefinitely the shame, like the
shame and guilt spirals are fun,yeah.
Caitlin Kindred (06:23):
And then you combine it with that Catholic
guilt and really it's justtherapy.
There we need therapy.
Okay so uh, this is not the kindof humiliation we're talking
about, where it's like you go tothe movies and the person who
scans your ticket says, uh,enjoy the show, and you go, you
too, and then you think about itfor the next, you know, five
(06:47):
years.
It's not like that.
This is a different kind ofshame and humiliation.
But I think there are some realroot causes for this feeling.
So I, I personally am blamingchildhood experiences, like when
you get compared to otherpeople, you feel misunderstood,
misunderstood, you aremisunderstood, etc.
Societal myths and stigma, Iwould say, are also a big part
(07:08):
of this.
And then internalized ableism,because I think people don't
realize that ADHD is an actualdisability that exists
scientifically.
So just putting that down there.
So I think all of these thingskind of came together and made
some sort of shame smoothie andI'm here to pour that nasty crap
(07:30):
down the sink for you becauseyou don't need to be drinking
that shame smoothie.
So again, childhood experiences, societal myths and
internalized ableism.
Also, there are lots of peoplewho think that ADHD is still
some sort of moral deficiency.
Right, y'all with ADHD arenothing more than lazy slackers.
Y'all just lack discipline.
(07:50):
Y'all are too sensitive.
There's something off abouty'all.
I don't know what it is aboutpeople who think that way, who
don't think this is real, but Iclearly can't change mine.
So when you look at your likelychaotic surroundings as an
ADHDer, you probably thinksomething like my problem is
(08:12):
that I lack discipline, andthat's because there's a chance
that someone said something likethat to you, especially if
you're someone who got badgrades in school.
Right?
Those feelings of inadequacyfrom your childhood academic
performance still linger, right?
How many times did you hearlike she just needs to buckle
down and focus or concentrate onwhat's important, or stop
(08:35):
talking in class?
That was me.
I was always the one talking inclass, right?
So then when you're late toanother meeting, you turn it on
yourself.
You say, oh my gosh, I'm a mess, I'm lazy, I'll never get ahead
, I'll never figure this out.
What's going on?
Or maybe you were the opposite.
Maybe you were like me andinstead of getting bad grades in
(08:56):
school, you did really well inschool because you were anxious
and you needed to perform acertain way.
So you did so well that eventhe idea of underperforming made
the shame feel worse, right?
So, like if you didn't performat your, you might have thought
it was your best, but it's notyour normal usual level, then
you feel shame for them.
Ariella Monti (09:16):
Yes, or you're a mix of both.
Yeah, I think I was.
I was a mix.
Yeah, I was a mix of both,because I didn't.
I wasn't the kid who got introuble a ton, because I was a
people pleaser.
I was an anxious people pleaser.
Caitlin Kindred (09:33):
Yep.
Ariella Monti (09:33):
But I did, you know, average in most subjects
and then other subjects likemath I really really poorly in,
which is really common for ADHDkids to be, to have challenges
in math, and that's where youknow like the lazy and the
(09:58):
discipline and the you know likeI'm stupid because I can't
understand this and all of that.
Caitlin Kindred (10:05):
Yeah, and it's, that's so.
I mean, just from a teacher'sperspective.
If kids are constantly notgetting it and no one picks up
on the fact that they don't getit, it's not that they're lazy,
it's that they don't understand.
And then they do poorly.
Well, where's the?
Where's the motivation to tryand fix that right?
(10:27):
Like where you're just going tocontinue to perform poorly
because you don't have theskills from the previous lesson
or whatever, and it just getsworse and worse until you fall
further and further behind andthen you just end up like I suck
at this.
So then when you get the badgrade, you don't feel any
motivation to do better becauseyou already, like, have
internalized I suck at right.
(10:47):
Right, yes, we can get into awhole thing about that there's a
reason that I graded my papersthe way that I did.
There's a, but that's.
That's neither here nor there.
We're staying on track is a isa difficult thing for adhd years
, but I just like to say thatfor the record, if just try
harder worked, every singleperson who had ADHD in your life
(11:09):
would be a CEO and would beyour boss right now.
Because we've all heard it andjust leave me alone.
Sometimes my brain is runningon Windows 95.
And we're clearly all in a 5Gsituation here, so you're just
gonna have to let it be Okay.
In a 5G situation here, soyou're just going to have to let
it be Okay.
So this kind of feeds into thatstigma piece.
Right, despite hearing aboutADHD everywhere all the time
(11:31):
these days, everyone's got ADHD.
No, it's not that everyone hasADHD.
It's the people who were notdiagnosed when they were younger
are finally getting diagnosed.
That's why the numbers aresurging, because, in particular,
women are finally beingdiagnosed.
So shut up about that.
Anyway, there are still thosepeople who refuse to believe
(11:51):
that ADHD is real.
But there's more to it thanthat.
Right, we've already touched onthat.
He just makes bad choices.
He's just lazy people who thinkthat ADHD is an excuse for
quote-unquote bad behavior,right, but there's other sources
of this stigma.
So one is that ADHD isperceived to be a childhood
disorder, meaning he'll grow outof it, right?
(12:12):
Since ADHD is commonly thoughtof as a childhood disorder,
adults who have it or claim tohave it have come under
suspicion.
So people seem to think thatyou're using ADHD as an excuse
for your circumstances or yourbehavior.
A lot of people perceive ADHD tobe a male-only disorder.
(12:32):
That's the patriarchy's fault.
That's all I have to say aboutthat.
If a girl has common ADHDtraits, then there must be
something really wrong with herRight, especially if she's like
a hyperactive type.
Ariella Monti (12:45):
Right.
Caitlin Kindred (12:46):
Physically hyperactive.
Most girls who have hyperactivetype are hyperactive in their
head and constantly bouncingfrom one thought to the next.
Ok, or the opposite is true.
Right, you don't act like aperson with ADHD because it's
not a physical type of ADHD,it's an attentive type.
Or because, again, thehyperactivity is in her brain
(13:11):
and not in her physicalmovements.
Right, and the stereotype ofADHD which we've discussed many
weeks ago is a hyperactivelittle boy, right, and if it
doesn't fit that mold, thenwhatever.
The other piece of this sourceof stigma that I think is
important to mention is thatit's an unseen disability.
It's like other mental healthdisorders in that you don't see,
unless it's a little physicalrunning around, little boy with
(13:33):
all this energy.
You don't see what ADHDactually is.
So you add that to thewidespread negativity around
mental health in general, plustaking pharmaceuticals, and you
get people who are going to saynasty and mean things.
Actually, fairly recently, Iwant to say like a week or so
(13:54):
ago I saw some post on threadswhere this girl was like how
come everybody's takingmedication for things that like,
just like, do better, like youdon't need medication all the
time.
And Elise Myers bless EliseMyers, if you, if you know, you
know who she is.
But she, she comments likesomething to the effect of how
(14:14):
nice for you that your bodyproduces all of the chemicals
that it needs in order to behealthy.
Mine, mine, does not producethis, and it was, I want to say,
like serotonin and dopamine.
And she was like, and because Idon't, if I didn't take
pharmaceuticals, I'd be in aditch somewhere like that's just
right.
She's been very open about hermental health struggles and I
(14:39):
like I'm just thinking about,like what about these people who
are born like type one diabetes, like they're born needing
insulin from day one?
Right?
Like how is that?
But then anyway.
So I commented underneath EliseMyers that I was like, listen, I
cannot make my own bread.
I mean, I probably could, butnot well enough to make
sandwiches all the time andthat's too much work for me.
(15:00):
So instead I go to the storeand I buy bread, right, because
store-bought bread is fine.
I also do not make enoughdopamine and since I don't make
enough, store-bought also needsto be fine.
And as my mom always says, ohlook, I made fireworks behind my
head.
I don't know how I did that.
Y'all, if you don't know how todo that, you're going to have
(15:21):
to send me a message because Ihave no idea how it's doing it.
But the other piece of it islike that my mom always says is
better living throughpharmacology.
You wouldn't say that aboutsomeone who has diabetes.
You wouldn't say that aboutsomeone who needs chemotherapy.
Stop saying it about people whoneed chemicals that make their
brain function.
Anyway, if any of thosethoughts about you know, you'll
(15:45):
grow out of it.
Or only little boys have this,or it's not an actual disability
, or in your head you'veprobably internalized these very
ableist ideas and you've beendoing that since you were a kid.
So that's another reason whyyou might feel some shame around
this.
Shame tends to manifest itselfin various ways and we've talked
about some of these in otherepisodes in the past, but I'm
(16:06):
going to touch on them again.
So, in general, symptoms of howyour shame might show up Mood
disorders and sometimescrippling anxiety,
self-medication with drugs oralcohol.
Self-medication with drugs oralcohol, especially for
undiagnosed ADHDers or otherdangerous behaviors, adrenaline
junkies, dopamine chasing, etc.
Defensiveness, which can comeacross as anger.
(16:30):
Also, to be fair, irritabilityis a very real symptom of ADHD,
so you end up lashing out at thepeople closest to you and
pushing them away when youactually really need them.
The other big general symptom ismasking, which we've talked
about before.
Go listen to that episode ifyou're not sure what that means,
but trying to fit in by maskingyour symptoms.
You might see those symptoms inall facets of your life, but
(16:55):
specific to work or school, youmight see procrastination which
leads to guilt, which leads tomore procrastination, and then,
like panic, working right.
That happens.
There's also, in work or school, a fear of asking for
accommodations I don't deservehelp.
I don't actually need help.
(17:16):
She doesn't need help.
She's very smart.
She just needs to apply herself, because when you did ask for
help, you didn't get it becausesomeone wrote off what your
symptoms were as you know, not areal need.
Or maybe you don't want to askfor help because you're a people
pleaser and you don't want toinconvenience another person,
which is why I don't ask forhelp yeah yeah, yes, in
(17:38):
relationships you might also seesymptoms like over apologizing,
sorry that I exist, right, it'slike you're standing in the
kitchen.
Oh, sorry for what.
Do you know how many times?
Ariella Monti (17:53):
I do that.
I say sorry for everything Allthe time.
Caitlin Kindred (17:56):
So I'm trying to be better about being like
thank you for instead of I'msorry, it's really hard, yes,
but like oh sorry, oh sorry Allthe time For what?
Just I'm just standing here?
Or people pleasing.
Adhders tend to be intensepeople pleasers because they
(18:17):
don't want to be rejectedbecause RSD is real, but also
because they know that they're alittle weird, they're a little
off and they don't want peopleto pick up on that.
It also leaves them highlyvulnerable to manipulation,
which is another thing Inparenting, adhd might show up as
(18:37):
I'm failing my kids.
You're comparing yourself toneurotypical parents.
You just constantly feel likeyou're inadequate, feelings of
inadequacy across the board, butin parenting in particular.
Because, yeah, other parentsquote, unquote other parents
seem to have these greatrelationships with their kids
(18:57):
and you don't have that kind ofrelationship.
So let's talk about fightingthis shame, all of this garbage,
and getting past it, and so I'mspecifically talking to myself,
but I hope that they find.
I hope that you find some ofthis helpful, ariela.
You might find some of thishelpful.
(19:18):
Arielle, you might find some ofthis helpful.
So, just this is me giving youadvice, even though you didn't
ask for it.
So we're going to start byseparating the morality of ADHD
from the science of ADHD.
You cannot beat yourself upabout something that you
literally have no control over.
You wouldn't attach immoral orjudgmental thoughts to someone
(19:44):
with a physical ailment ordisability, correct?
So again we go back to thatdiabetes disorder.
You're born a type 1 diabetic.
People aren't going to be likeew.
You know what I mean.
People don't judge that.
They do judge type 2 diabetessometimes because people view
that as self-inflicted, but type1 they
(20:04):
don't Right or you're born with,I don't know, some other sort
of heart defect or whatever.
People don't judge stuff likethat, but they do with this
stuff Anyway.
So I'm going to remind you thatADHD is a physical ailment.
It is a physical disability.
(20:25):
It's supported by real science,with MRIs and genetic studies.
So you cannot view ADHD as apersonality flaw or a moral
fault.
It's a brain type.
It's not a flaw.
The physical disability is thepart where you don't make the
chemicals that your brain needsto be its best self.
That's the end of it.
(20:46):
Yes, it's a real disorder.
It comes with real challengesand you can choose to face those
challenges head on or you canwallow in the shame that someone
else taught you instead ofbeing your most authentic,
amazing self.
It's a physical ailment.
Your brain doesn't producechemicals, so don't beat
yourself up about it.
Okay, so you're going to namethe narrative.
(21:08):
Remember my remember?
I told you about Gladys.
Gladys is my ADHD brain.
She's here, she's back.
She's going to help youseparate yourself from your
brain and yourself from the RSDthat your brain carries around
in the world's most ridiculoussuitcase, like the stupidest
(21:28):
little suitcase.
That's what Gladys carries yourRSD in.
It's like a Mary Poppins bagonly it looks like.
Pee Wee Herman's fun house Likeit's the most stupid thing,
right?
This shame isn't mine.
This shame is Gladys.
Shut up, gladys.
You're stupid and your suitcaseis ugly right Now.
(21:50):
To be clear, I'm not sayingthat you can make excuses for
yourself.
It's not Gladys' fault that Ibehaved in some crappy way.
That wasn't appropriate.
Gladys exists to keep me fromshame spiraling about that.
I can put it on Gladys that Iyou know that I feel some type
of way and I keep ruminating onit.
(22:11):
That's Gladys' position here.
My behavior is not Gladys.
She's how I separate out theshame.
Okay, I'm not pawning off myresponsibilities and I just want
to be clear.
There's Gladys and then there'sMyrtle, and Myrtle is the ghost
in my house who does things Idon't like like leaves out shoes
or boxes or messiness.
(22:32):
Or leaves cabinets open that'sMyrtle.
Boxes or messiness.
Or leaves cabinets open, that'sMyrtle Gladys is my shame and
my ADHD brain.
In addition to naming yournarrative and separating that
from yourself, you're going torewrite your story and you're
going to remember that ADHD is asuperpower.
You have so many strengths likecreativity, originality,
(22:53):
hyper-focus, persistence,initiative, humor.
Those are very common amongpeople with ADHD.
So remember that piece of itwhen you start to shame spiral
and tell Gladys to shut upbecause you're funny.
Shut up, gladys, I'm funny.
Right, there you go.
Now.
Another thing I said thatADHDers are vulnerable to people
(23:16):
pleasing and manipulation.
So here's what you're going todo You're going to expect
respect from others and fromyourself, because people who are
buried in shame often let otherpeople walk all over them.
You get stuck in this cycle ofpeople pleasing you constantly
apologize, you over-apologize,and then you ruminate on the
thing that happened that madeover apologize, and then you
(23:37):
ruminate on the thing thathappened that made you apologize
, and then you don't enforceboundaries that keep you safe.
So basically, it's like beingin junior high all over again
and you're an easy target, like.
I hate to say it that way, butyou are, and when you remember
all of those things that I justlisted off, that you bring to
(24:00):
the table, you can start to seeyourself as someone who is
actually worthy of respect.
You can gain the confidence andstart to respect yourself,
which means that people won'tgive you any guff and you don't
have to take it from otherpeople either.
Okay, so here's some sentencesthat you can say when someone is
a jerk about ADHD.
(24:20):
I have ADHD and it's just asreal as other medical conditions
.
I work hard, and I bet you haveno idea how demoralizing it is
to hear you say something likethat.
I like that.
This is one of my favorites.
Wow, I'm surprised you feelcomfortable talking about mental
health conditions that way.
Can you help me understand whatyou mean by that, or tell me
(24:46):
more about that?
I love making them explaintheir stupidness and bigotry.
My favorite, yeah, also mypersonal addition here F off
Gladys gladys.
So yeah, tell her to go away,or whatever her stupid name is
linda, I don't know, but she itdoesn't matter, okay, um, the
(25:08):
next thing you're gonna do tohelp get rid of this shame is
find your people.
You mentioned this earlier.
You surround yourself with somany neurodivergent folks.
There's a, there's an idea inneurodivergent communities that
if all of your friends areneurodivergent, got news for you
.
You probably aren't.
Ariella Monti (25:27):
Yeah, it's unlikely that you are the token
neurotypical right, You're notSorry token.
Caitlin Kindred (25:34):
No, that ain't you, no, no no, you're not
special.
Ariella Monti (25:38):
You are not a special snowflake, you are just
an ADHD.
Yeah, you're probably an ADHD,or?
Caitlin Kindred (25:44):
an autistic or whatever.
Ariella Monti (25:49):
We all tend to find each other.
Caitlin Kindred (25:52):
That's good, because finding your people is a
way to save off this shameright.
Follow other ADHD creators.
Adhd Threads is a good one.
How to ADHD on YouTube is agreat channel.
Others we've shared in thisepisodes and, by the way, I
would consider Ariella and I tobe ADHD creators at this point.
So if you're not following us,now's the time.
(26:13):
Yes, shameless plug here.
Okay.
Therapy, especially ADHDinformed therapy and coaching
can really, really, really helpby giving you an objective third
party to talk to.
If you're not sure about it,attitude Mag has a great
directory of professionals tosupport you and I've linked that
in the blog post for theepisode.
(26:34):
And then also just look forother people in your life who
are neurodivergent and who areopen to talk about it.
I do not have any shame abouttalking about this.
The ADHD shame, yes.
The shame about talking aboutmy mental health?
No, because I think the more wetalk about it, the better off
we're all going to be and morepeople are going to realize that
(26:54):
they're not alone.
So I have no problem tellingyou every single medication that
I'm on for my mental health,how much of it I take, and
making recommendations.
So find people in your life,who are like that, who are open
to talk about it.
And if those don't exist inyour real life, they do exist
online and lots of people wantto talk and have that community
with you.
(27:15):
Yeah, the other thing is tocreate systems to prevent shame.
I realize that sounds stupid.
Okay, but there are actual waysthat you can prevent shame when
you know your shame triggers.
For example, let's say youalways lose your car keys.
Okay, well, come up with aspecific system to keep track of
them.
Take a small basket, put it onthe table right by the front
(27:36):
door.
Or get one of those cute littlecloud magnets.
Have you seen those?
It's like a wall-mounted cloudmagnet and it's adorable.
Come on, you'd want to stickyour keys on that every day.
It's so cute.
And that way you won't get madat yourself for losing your keys
and then you won't shame spiral.
And as you get better withthose systems, you'll be like
(27:58):
yes, I put my keys in the bowlthree days in a row, people.
And then you can go on adhdthreads and you can be like guys
, I put my keys in the bowl forthree days in a row, please clap
, and people will clap for you,right, so like people will be
genuinely, genuinely happy foryou.
Ariella Monti (28:14):
It's so great, so the more you excited for you.
Genuinely happy for you.
Caitlin Kindred (28:16):
It's so great.
So the more you do that you getproud of it and then you get
higher self-esteem and then thatstarts to snowball and you'll
find other systems to preventmore shame.
It works, I promise.
There are ways to prevent it.
Practice shamelessness.
This is what I'm talking aboutwhen I say I will tell you every
(28:36):
single mental health conditionthat I have.
Okay, so most of our listenersare moms.
I'm going to take you back,mother dearest, to the lack of
shame that you felt when youwere in the process of and done
birthing your child, and donebirthing your child.
(29:01):
Now, when I was born, my momwas in a teaching hospital and
there were just people coming inand out and she was like
screaming at people to get outand leave her alone In mine.
It's not so much that I had ateaching hospital as it was that
it was during like shiftchanges.
I was there long enough forthat, so I had multiple people
all up in my business that bythe time I left the hospital, I
(29:24):
had had probably no less than 15different hands on or in my
body in some way.
Shape or form.
Right, do you remember havingthat many people hot up in your
business.
Hey, are you a proud member ofthe weop in your business?
Are you a proud member of thewe Do Not Care Club?
If you know, you know.
Channel that vibe right Outyour ADHD proudly.
(29:48):
I forgot your birthday becausemy brain cleared its cookies.
That's my bad.
Let's celebrate belatedly.
Ps, also, I personally lovelate birthdays.
I think it makes the fun lastlonger.
So if I celebrate your birthdaylate, just remember it's
because I love you and latebirthdays are great.
Okay, laugh at yourself.
Oh my God, of course my keysare in the fridge.
(30:09):
They were hot in my hand.
I was hot.
Ariella Monti (30:11):
I put my face in the fridge.
Caitlin Kindred (30:13):
Of course that's where they are.
Why not Right?
Find ways to laugh at yourselfand find ways to go.
You know what this is me Like.
This is who I am.
If I don't laugh at it, I'll cryor feel shame.
So just be okay with it, it'sall right, and then keep trying.
There will be times when youmake yourself angry or
(30:34):
frustrated and you start toshame spiral again.
Of course that's going tohappen.
It's wired into your brain.
Or the lack of chemicals, thehappy-kept-go-with-all-the-mean,
is part of why it happens too.
Right?
But that perseverance that youhave, your tenacity, your humor,
you know how to use thosethings to your advantage in
other areas of your life.
Let's apply them here too.
(30:55):
Okay, so I just gave you seven,seven, seven.
Sometimes I get excited and Italk too fast and then I don't
understand what I'm saying.
But I just gave you seven oreight different ways to fight
(31:17):
shame in your life.
If you're an ADHD person, proneto shame spiraling, you're going
to separate the morality fromthe science.
Name your shame, rewrite yourstory, expect respect from
others and yourself.
You're going to find yourpeople.
You're going to create somesystems that help you prevent
shame and you're going topractice that shamelessness, and
(31:38):
then you're going to keeptrying, okay, so remember that
shame thrives in isolation andfeeling alone, and the more
alone you feel, the more shameyou have.
You're not alone, though, ifyou are reach out, because there
are lots of people willing toshare their experiences,
(31:59):
especially ADHDers, and women inparticular.
If you have an ADHD stereotypethat you're tired of hearing,
please share it with myself.
For Ariella at CKGK Podcast orat Ariella underscore Monty on
Instagram.
We'd love to hear it and we'llrant about it together.
Ariella Monti (32:15):
Yeah, yeah, I like to rant, I love ranting.
Caitlin Kindred (32:18):
yep, the couple I mean the couples that hate
together stay together.
Just saying there's likescience that backs that up.
By the way.
Yep, um, next week we'retalking about self-care for adhd
brains.
It's not bubble baths, so stickaround for that.
Um, until then, repeat after me.
I'm not broken, I am different.
And shut up, gladys, we'll beright back.
(32:45):
Hey y'all.
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The debut novel by AriellaMonti is the fantasy romance for
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Use promo code CKANDGK to get20% off your copy at
(33:05):
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Get your copy for 20% off onarielamontecom.
Get your copy for 20% off today.
(33:27):
Okay, we're back.
Guess what?
Ariella Monti (33:31):
What, what.
Caitlin Kindred (33:35):
The delayed response is everything, God.
Now I don't even know what Iwas going to say oh my goodness,
I seriously don't even knowwhat I was going to say.
It doesn't even matter.
(33:57):
Silence was literallyeverything.
Guess what?
Oh me what.
I don't even have anything elseto add Like I can't, I think
we're going to go, we're justgoing to wrap this up because I
can't.
Just I can bring it back no no,it's good, we're good, we're
(34:21):
just gonna, we're just, we'regonna see you next time make
better choices than me.
Ariella Monti (34:27):
Love you mean it?
Bye.
Okay, well, as I stretch and try to talk at the
same time, hi, friends, we'reall meaning.
The two of us, ariella and I,are so glad you're here.
Welcome to how to Be a Grownup.
This is the how-to show formoms who've deep breath,
screamed into a pillow today, orreally ever.
Did you hear about the group ofpeople chicago who go out like
(00:24):
once a week and scream into thevoid over the lake?
Ariella Monti (00:27):
I saw a like a post about it, but I didn't read
any of the details.
But the post was enough for meto be like I get it.
Caitlin Kindred (00:36):
Yeah, it was on um, cnn does a like five good
things podcast and it was onthat a couple weeks ago and then
I the, so, the, so she meets,just picked it up.
So but it's funny and I waslike this man knows, this man
gets it sometimes you just needto go scream into the void.
Yeah, they do it like three bigscreams and then they all just
(00:57):
like go on their merry way.
Ariella Monti (00:59):
It's hilarious all right, they don't even like
go out for like drinks oranything after.
Caitlin Kindred (01:08):
They're just like all right I think it's like
sunday morning or somethinglike that.
But yeah, just they just go outand scream and think all about
their day.
It's pretty funny home, yep,exactly go to church sometimes
you right, sometimes you justneed to get it out and then keep
on moving right right uh, okay,well, with me today is ariela
(01:32):
monte, who's the novelist and aneuro spicy mom of a neuro spicy
child, and she's also asucculent of resilience.
That sounds inappropriate.
She thrives on chaos and looksgood doing it.
Ariella Monti (01:47):
Ariel Lamonti.
Folks, I can't.
I sit here completely likeunshowered.
That's part of the chaos.
Caitlin Kindred (01:54):
Listen, I'm unshowered too.
I did change my clothes, but Iam unshowered.
It is what it is, folks.
It is what it is Today we'retalking about.
We're cracking up, but the topicis actually kind of serious.
We're talking about the shameand stigma surrounding ADHD, so
you know all the things thatmake ADHDers feel some type of
(02:15):
way about themselves and howother people seem to perceive
ADHD.
I got thoughts, so we're goingto share those, but before we do
, let's make sure you'resubscribed to this show, okay,
so if you haven't already,please hit follow or whatever it
is on your favorite podcast appthat lets you get updates from
your favorite shows so you don'tmiss any episodes.
(02:36):
Yes, yes, okay, so, um, asalways, our sources are us and
Attitude Mag, because AttitudeMag is the best.
I also have been puttingtogether an ADHD playlist on
Spotify, so everything thatwe've been talking about related
to ADHD is all in this oneplaylist, and you can find that
(02:59):
link in the show notes so youcan get the rundown on ADHD
stuff.
According to us and somescience, we're fact adjacent on
this show, so it works right.
Ariella Monti (03:10):
We cite our sources though.
Caitlin Kindred (03:12):
We do cite our sources.
It's not like I just make it up.
Yeah, no, no.
Ariella Monti (03:17):
So we cite our sources and this is just like
the audio version of you know,know your junior year research
paper in college can you pleasewrite that up as a testimonial?
Caitlin Kindred (03:30):
I might.
I can put it in.
I'm just gonna have it as likeone of the scrolling
testimonials on our website.
Have you seen our website?
Go check out our website.
It's at ck and gk podcastcomand hopefully ariela will give
me that quote and I'm yourjunior year research.
Ariella Monti (03:51):
You know it's done at like the last minute,
but the information's good.
You just hope that you know youput all the information
together in the right way sothat it makes sense and you
didn't practice delivering itbecause you didn't have time for
that.
Caitlin Kindred (04:04):
You figured you'd just wing it, so whatever
right, I believe it's calledauthenticity right, that's what
it is in the current speak um sothis episode is for all the
people who have been toldthey're too much or they're
extra, or they're not enough andnot extra.
Like how jenny dresses up forall of the occasions extra.
That's not what we're talkingabout here.
Like just, they're big.
(04:25):
What's the taylor swift thing?
She says like your energy islike currency, right.
Some people just can't affordyour energy oh, right, yeah okay
, um, or maybe you feel likeyou're a failed adult because
you can't just focus, or youcan't get it together.
And you're listening to theshow because it's called how to
be a grown-up, and we're tryingand you're listening to us try
(04:46):
to teach you um, but that's alla part of adhd shame, and so
today we're talking about whereit comes from, why it sticks
with you and how to startunlearning that.
So, again, as ariela says, oneyour mileage will vary on this,
so please take what you need andleave the rest.
But as the juniors in your,your research, whatever, let me
(05:10):
try that again.
As you learned from the otherjuniors in your history and
english classes, none of us aremental health professionals.
None of them were either.
Don't, don't.
Don't.
Treat our advice like it's truemedical advice.
It's not.
We're just doing the best wecan here on our junior year
(05:30):
project so right, let me notsniff it and clear my throat
into the microphone.
Believe that's podcasting?
Bad practices?
Okay, so shame and stigma andadhd.
Do you ever feel that way?
You ever feel like the weird,like ADHD, guilt and shame, oh
my.
Ariella Monti (05:49):
God, it's like.
It's like it is the reoccurringtopic in therapy All the time.
Not so much the stigma, thoughI don't.
I don't notice.
I'm not saying that it's notthere.
I don't notice, I'm not sayingthat it's not there.
I'm just saying that, like Ipersonally have not experienced
(06:09):
the stigma, probably because Isurround myself with so many
neurodivergent people butdefinitely the shame, like the
shame and guilt spirals are fun,yeah.
Caitlin Kindred (06:23):
And then you combine it with that Catholic
guilt and really it's justtherapy.
There we need therapy.
Okay so uh, this is not the kindof humiliation we're talking
about, where it's like you go tothe movies and the person who
scans your ticket says, uh,enjoy the show, and you go, you
too, and then you think about itfor the next, you know, five
(06:47):
years.
It's not like that.
This is a different kind ofshame and humiliation.
But I think there are some realroot causes for this feeling.
So I, I personally am blamingchildhood experiences, like when
you get compared to otherpeople, you feel misunderstood,
misunderstood, you aremisunderstood, etc.
Societal myths and stigma, Iwould say, are also a big part
(07:08):
of this.
And then internalized ableism,because I think people don't
realize that ADHD is an actualdisability that exists
scientifically.
So just putting that down there.
So I think all of these thingskind of came together and made
some sort of shame smoothie andI'm here to pour that nasty crap
(07:30):
down the sink for you becauseyou don't need to be drinking
that shame smoothie.
So again, childhood experiences, societal myths and
internalized ableism.
Also, there are lots of peoplewho think that ADHD is still
some sort of moral deficiency.
Right, y'all with ADHD arenothing more than lazy slackers.
Y'all just lack discipline.
(07:50):
Y'all are too sensitive.
There's something off abouty'all.
I don't know what it is aboutpeople who think that way, who
don't think this is real, but Iclearly can't change mine.
So when you look at your likelychaotic surroundings as an
ADHDer, you probably thinksomething like my problem is
(08:12):
that I lack discipline, andthat's because there's a chance
that someone said something likethat to you, especially if
you're someone who got badgrades in school.
Right?
Those feelings of inadequacyfrom your childhood academic
performance still linger, right?
How many times did you hearlike she just needs to buckle
down and focus or concentrate onwhat's important, or stop
(08:35):
talking in class?
That was me.
I was always the one talking inclass, right?
So then when you're late toanother meeting, you turn it on
yourself.
You say, oh my gosh, I'm a mess, I'm lazy, I'll never get ahead
, I'll never figure this out.
What's going on?
Or maybe you were the opposite.
Maybe you were like me andinstead of getting bad grades in
(08:56):
school, you did really well inschool because you were anxious
and you needed to perform acertain way.
So you did so well that eventhe idea of underperforming made
the shame feel worse, right?
So, like if you didn't performat your, you might have thought
it was your best, but it's notyour normal usual level, then
you feel shame for them.
Ariella Monti (09:16):
Yes, or you're a mix of both.
Yeah, I think I was.
I was a mix.
Yeah, I was a mix of both,because I didn't.
I wasn't the kid who got introuble a ton, because I was a
people pleaser.
I was an anxious people pleaser.
Caitlin Kindred (09:33):
Yep.
Ariella Monti (09:33):
But I did, you know, average in most subjects
and then other subjects likemath I really really poorly in,
which is really common for ADHDkids to be, to have challenges
in math, and that's where youknow like the lazy and the
(09:58):
discipline and the you know likeI'm stupid because I can't
understand this and all of that.
Caitlin Kindred (10:05):
Yeah, and it's, that's so.
I mean, just from a teacher'sperspective.
If kids are constantly notgetting it and no one picks up
on the fact that they don't getit, it's not that they're lazy,
it's that they don't understand.
And then they do poorly.
Well, where's the?
Where's the motivation to tryand fix that right?
(10:27):
Like where you're just going tocontinue to perform poorly
because you don't have theskills from the previous lesson
or whatever, and it just getsworse and worse until you fall
further and further behind andthen you just end up like I suck
at this.
So then when you get the badgrade, you don't feel any
motivation to do better becauseyou already, like, have
internalized I suck at right.
(10:47):
Right, yes, we can get into awhole thing about that there's a
reason that I graded my papersthe way that I did.
There's a, but that's.
That's neither here nor there.
We're staying on track is a isa difficult thing for adhd years
, but I just like to say thatfor the record, if just try
harder worked, every singleperson who had ADHD in your life
(11:09):
would be a CEO and would beyour boss right now.
Because we've all heard it andjust leave me alone.
Sometimes my brain is runningon Windows 95.
And we're clearly all in a 5Gsituation here, so you're just
gonna have to let it be Okay.
In a 5G situation here, soyou're just going to have to let
it be Okay.
So this kind of feeds into thatstigma piece.
Right, despite hearing aboutADHD everywhere all the time
(11:31):
these days, everyone's got ADHD.
No, it's not that everyone hasADHD.
It's the people who were notdiagnosed when they were younger
are finally getting diagnosed.
That's why the numbers aresurging, because, in particular,
women are finally beingdiagnosed.
So shut up about that.
Anyway, there are still thosepeople who refuse to believe
(11:51):
that ADHD is real.
But there's more to it thanthat.
Right, we've already touched onthat.
He just makes bad choices.
He's just lazy people who thinkthat ADHD is an excuse for
quote-unquote bad behavior,right, but there's other sources
of this stigma.
So one is that ADHD isperceived to be a childhood
disorder, meaning he'll grow outof it, right?
(12:12):
Since ADHD is commonly thoughtof as a childhood disorder,
adults who have it or claim tohave it have come under
suspicion.
So people seem to think thatyou're using ADHD as an excuse
for your circumstances or yourbehavior.
A lot of people perceive ADHD tobe a male-only disorder.
(12:32):
That's the patriarchy's fault.
That's all I have to say aboutthat.
If a girl has common ADHDtraits, then there must be
something really wrong with herRight, especially if she's like
a hyperactive type.
Ariella Monti (12:45):
Right.
Caitlin Kindred (12:46):
Physically hyperactive.
Most girls who have hyperactivetype are hyperactive in their
head and constantly bouncingfrom one thought to the next.
Ok, or the opposite is true.
Right, you don't act like aperson with ADHD because it's
not a physical type of ADHD,it's an attentive type.
Or because, again, thehyperactivity is in her brain
(13:11):
and not in her physicalmovements.
Right, and the stereotype ofADHD which we've discussed many
weeks ago is a hyperactivelittle boy, right, and if it
doesn't fit that mold, thenwhatever.
The other piece of this sourceof stigma that I think is
important to mention is thatit's an unseen disability.
It's like other mental healthdisorders in that you don't see,
unless it's a little physicalrunning around, little boy with
(13:33):
all this energy.
You don't see what ADHDactually is.
So you add that to thewidespread negativity around
mental health in general, plustaking pharmaceuticals, and you
get people who are going to saynasty and mean things.
Actually, fairly recently, Iwant to say like a week or so
(13:54):
ago I saw some post on threadswhere this girl was like how
come everybody's takingmedication for things that like,
just like, do better, like youdon't need medication all the
time.
And Elise Myers bless EliseMyers, if you, if you know, you
know who she is.
But she, she comments likesomething to the effect of how
(14:14):
nice for you that your bodyproduces all of the chemicals
that it needs in order to behealthy.
Mine, mine, does not producethis, and it was, I want to say,
like serotonin and dopamine.
And she was like, and because Idon't, if I didn't take
pharmaceuticals, I'd be in aditch somewhere like that's just
right.
She's been very open about hermental health struggles and I
(14:39):
like I'm just thinking about,like what about these people who
are born like type one diabetes, like they're born needing
insulin from day one?
Right?
Like how is that?
But then anyway.
So I commented underneath EliseMyers that I was like, listen, I
cannot make my own bread.
I mean, I probably could, butnot well enough to make
sandwiches all the time andthat's too much work for me.
(15:00):
So instead I go to the storeand I buy bread, right, because
store-bought bread is fine.
I also do not make enoughdopamine and since I don't make
enough, store-bought also needsto be fine.
And as my mom always says, ohlook, I made fireworks behind my
head.
I don't know how I did that.
Y'all, if you don't know how todo that, you're going to have
(15:21):
to send me a message because Ihave no idea how it's doing it.
But the other piece of it islike that my mom always says is
better living throughpharmacology.
You wouldn't say that aboutsomeone who has diabetes.
You wouldn't say that aboutsomeone who needs chemotherapy.
Stop saying it about people whoneed chemicals that make their
brain function.
Anyway, if any of thosethoughts about you know, you'll
(15:45):
grow out of it.
Or only little boys have this,or it's not an actual disability
, or in your head you'veprobably internalized these very
ableist ideas and you've beendoing that since you were a kid.
So that's another reason whyyou might feel some shame around
this.
Shame tends to manifest itselfin various ways and we've talked
about some of these in otherepisodes in the past, but I'm
(16:06):
going to touch on them again.
So, in general, symptoms of howyour shame might show up Mood
disorders and sometimescrippling anxiety,
self-medication with drugs oralcohol.
Self-medication with drugs oralcohol, especially for
undiagnosed ADHDers or otherdangerous behaviors, adrenaline
junkies, dopamine chasing, etc.
Defensiveness, which can comeacross as anger.
(16:30):
Also, to be fair, irritabilityis a very real symptom of ADHD,
so you end up lashing out at thepeople closest to you and
pushing them away when youactually really need them.
The other big general symptom ismasking, which we've talked
about before.
Go listen to that episode ifyou're not sure what that means,
but trying to fit in by maskingyour symptoms.
You might see those symptoms inall facets of your life, but
(16:55):
specific to work or school, youmight see procrastination which
leads to guilt, which leads tomore procrastination, and then,
like panic, working right.
That happens.
There's also, in work or school, a fear of asking for
accommodations I don't deservehelp.
I don't actually need help.
(17:16):
She doesn't need help.
She's very smart.
She just needs to apply herself, because when you did ask for
help, you didn't get it becausesomeone wrote off what your
symptoms were as you know, not areal need.
Or maybe you don't want to askfor help because you're a people
pleaser and you don't want toinconvenience another person,
which is why I don't ask forhelp yeah yeah, yes, in
(17:38):
relationships you might also seesymptoms like over apologizing,
sorry that I exist, right, it'slike you're standing in the
kitchen.
Oh, sorry for what.
Do you know how many times?
Ariella Monti (17:53):
I do that.
I say sorry for everything Allthe time.
Caitlin Kindred (17:56):
So I'm trying to be better about being like
thank you for instead of I'msorry, it's really hard, yes,
but like oh sorry, oh sorry Allthe time For what?
Just I'm just standing here?
Or people pleasing.
Adhders tend to be intensepeople pleasers because they
(18:17):
don't want to be rejectedbecause RSD is real, but also
because they know that they're alittle weird, they're a little
off and they don't want peopleto pick up on that.
It also leaves them highlyvulnerable to manipulation,
which is another thing Inparenting, adhd might show up as
(18:37):
I'm failing my kids.
You're comparing yourself toneurotypical parents.
You just constantly feel likeyou're inadequate, feelings of
inadequacy across the board, butin parenting in particular.
Because, yeah, other parentsquote, unquote other parents
seem to have these greatrelationships with their kids
(18:57):
and you don't have that kind ofrelationship.
So let's talk about fightingthis shame, all of this garbage,
and getting past it, and so I'mspecifically talking to myself,
but I hope that they find.
I hope that you find some ofthis helpful, ariela.
You might find some of thishelpful.
(19:18):
Arielle, you might find some ofthis helpful.
So, just this is me giving youadvice, even though you didn't
ask for it.
So we're going to start byseparating the morality of ADHD
from the science of ADHD.
You cannot beat yourself upabout something that you
literally have no control over.
You wouldn't attach immoral orjudgmental thoughts to someone
(19:44):
with a physical ailment ordisability, correct?
So again we go back to thatdiabetes disorder.
You're born a type 1 diabetic.
People aren't going to be likeew.
You know what I mean.
People don't judge that.
They do judge type 2 diabetessometimes because people view
that as self-inflicted, but type1 they
(20:04):
don't Right or you're born with,I don't know, some other sort
of heart defect or whatever.
People don't judge stuff likethat, but they do with this
stuff Anyway.
So I'm going to remind you thatADHD is a physical ailment.
It is a physical disability.
(20:25):
It's supported by real science,with MRIs and genetic studies.
So you cannot view ADHD as apersonality flaw or a moral
fault.
It's a brain type.
It's not a flaw.
The physical disability is thepart where you don't make the
chemicals that your brain needsto be its best self.
That's the end of it.
(20:46):
Yes, it's a real disorder.
It comes with real challengesand you can choose to face those
challenges head on or you canwallow in the shame that someone
else taught you instead ofbeing your most authentic,
amazing self.
It's a physical ailment.
Your brain doesn't producechemicals, so don't beat
yourself up about it.
Okay, so you're going to namethe narrative.
(21:08):
Remember my remember?
I told you about Gladys.
Gladys is my ADHD brain.
She's here, she's back.
She's going to help youseparate yourself from your
brain and yourself from the RSDthat your brain carries around
in the world's most ridiculoussuitcase, like the stupidest
(21:28):
little suitcase.
That's what Gladys carries yourRSD in.
It's like a Mary Poppins bagonly it looks like.
Pee Wee Herman's fun house Likeit's the most stupid thing,
right?
This shame isn't mine.
This shame is Gladys.
Shut up, gladys.
You're stupid and your suitcaseis ugly right Now.
(21:50):
To be clear, I'm not sayingthat you can make excuses for
yourself.
It's not Gladys' fault that Ibehaved in some crappy way.
That wasn't appropriate.
Gladys exists to keep me fromshame spiraling about that.
I can put it on Gladys that Iyou know that I feel some type
of way and I keep ruminating onit.
(22:11):
That's Gladys' position here.
My behavior is not Gladys.
She's how I separate out theshame.
Okay, I'm not pawning off myresponsibilities and I just want
to be clear.
There's Gladys and then there'sMyrtle, and Myrtle is the ghost
in my house who does things Idon't like like leaves out shoes
or boxes or messiness.
(22:32):
Or leaves cabinets open that'sMyrtle.
Boxes or messiness.
Or leaves cabinets open, that'sMyrtle Gladys is my shame and
my ADHD brain.
In addition to naming yournarrative and separating that
from yourself, you're going torewrite your story and you're
going to remember that ADHD is asuperpower.
You have so many strengths likecreativity, originality,
(22:53):
hyper-focus, persistence,initiative, humor.
Those are very common amongpeople with ADHD.
So remember that piece of itwhen you start to shame spiral
and tell Gladys to shut upbecause you're funny.
Shut up, gladys, I'm funny.
Right, there you go.
Now.
Another thing I said thatADHDers are vulnerable to people
(23:16):
pleasing and manipulation.
So here's what you're going todo You're going to expect
respect from others and fromyourself, because people who are
buried in shame often let otherpeople walk all over them.
You get stuck in this cycle ofpeople pleasing you constantly
apologize, you over-apologize,and then you ruminate on the
thing that happened that madeover apologize, and then you
(23:37):
ruminate on the thing thathappened that made you apologize
, and then you don't enforceboundaries that keep you safe.
So basically, it's like beingin junior high all over again
and you're an easy target, like.
I hate to say it that way, butyou are, and when you remember
all of those things that I justlisted off, that you bring to
(24:00):
the table, you can start to seeyourself as someone who is
actually worthy of respect.
You can gain the confidence andstart to respect yourself,
which means that people won'tgive you any guff and you don't
have to take it from otherpeople either.
Okay, so here's some sentencesthat you can say when someone is
a jerk about ADHD.
(24:20):
I have ADHD and it's just asreal as other medical conditions
.
I work hard, and I bet you haveno idea how demoralizing it is
to hear you say something likethat.
I like that.
This is one of my favorites.
Wow, I'm surprised you feelcomfortable talking about mental
health conditions that way.
Can you help me understand whatyou mean by that, or tell me
(24:46):
more about that?
I love making them explaintheir stupidness and bigotry.
My favorite, yeah, also mypersonal addition here F off
Gladys gladys.
So yeah, tell her to go away,or whatever her stupid name is
linda, I don't know, but she itdoesn't matter, okay, um, the
(25:08):
next thing you're gonna do tohelp get rid of this shame is
find your people.
You mentioned this earlier.
You surround yourself with somany neurodivergent folks.
There's a, there's an idea inneurodivergent communities that
if all of your friends areneurodivergent, got news for you
.
You probably aren't.
Ariella Monti (25:27):
Yeah, it's unlikely that you are the token
neurotypical right, You're notSorry token.
Caitlin Kindred (25:34):
No, that ain't you, no, no no, you're not
special.
Ariella Monti (25:38):
You are not a special snowflake, you are just
an ADHD.
Yeah, you're probably an ADHD,or?
Caitlin Kindred (25:44):
an autistic or whatever.
Ariella Monti (25:49):
We all tend to find each other.
Caitlin Kindred (25:52):
That's good, because finding your people is a
way to save off this shameright.
Follow other ADHD creators.
Adhd Threads is a good one.
How to ADHD on YouTube is agreat channel.
Others we've shared in thisepisodes and, by the way, I
would consider Ariella and I tobe ADHD creators at this point.
So if you're not following us,now's the time.
(26:13):
Yes, shameless plug here.
Okay.
Therapy, especially ADHDinformed therapy and coaching
can really, really, really helpby giving you an objective third
party to talk to.
If you're not sure about it,attitude Mag has a great
directory of professionals tosupport you and I've linked that
in the blog post for theepisode.
(26:34):
And then also just look forother people in your life who
are neurodivergent and who areopen to talk about it.
I do not have any shame abouttalking about this.
The ADHD shame, yes.
The shame about talking aboutmy mental health?
No, because I think the more wetalk about it, the better off
we're all going to be and morepeople are going to realize that
(26:54):
they're not alone.
So I have no problem tellingyou every single medication that
I'm on for my mental health,how much of it I take, and
making recommendations.
So find people in your life,who are like that, who are open
to talk about it.
And if those don't exist inyour real life, they do exist
online and lots of people wantto talk and have that community
with you.
(27:15):
Yeah, the other thing is tocreate systems to prevent shame.
I realize that sounds stupid.
Okay, but there are actual waysthat you can prevent shame when
you know your shame triggers.
For example, let's say youalways lose your car keys.
Okay, well, come up with aspecific system to keep track of
them.
Take a small basket, put it onthe table right by the front
(27:36):
door.
Or get one of those cute littlecloud magnets.
Have you seen those?
It's like a wall-mounted cloudmagnet and it's adorable.
Come on, you'd want to stickyour keys on that every day.
It's so cute.
And that way you won't get madat yourself for losing your keys
and then you won't shame spiral.
And as you get better withthose systems, you'll be like
(27:58):
yes, I put my keys in the bowlthree days in a row, people.
And then you can go on adhdthreads and you can be like guys
, I put my keys in the bowl forthree days in a row, please clap
, and people will clap for you,right, so like people will be
genuinely, genuinely happy foryou.
Ariella Monti (28:14):
It's so great, so the more you excited for you.
Genuinely happy for you.
Caitlin Kindred (28:16):
It's so great.
So the more you do that you getproud of it and then you get
higher self-esteem and then thatstarts to snowball and you'll
find other systems to preventmore shame.
It works, I promise.
There are ways to prevent it.
Practice shamelessness.
This is what I'm talking aboutwhen I say I will tell you every
(28:36):
single mental health conditionthat I have.
Okay, so most of our listenersare moms.
I'm going to take you back,mother dearest, to the lack of
shame that you felt when youwere in the process of and done
birthing your child, and donebirthing your child.
(29:01):
Now, when I was born, my momwas in a teaching hospital and
there were just people coming inand out and she was like
screaming at people to get outand leave her alone In mine.
It's not so much that I had ateaching hospital as it was that
it was during like shiftchanges.
I was there long enough forthat, so I had multiple people
all up in my business that bythe time I left the hospital, I
(29:24):
had had probably no less than 15different hands on or in my
body in some way.
Shape or form.
Right, do you remember havingthat many people hot up in your
business.
Hey, are you a proud member ofthe weop in your business?
Are you a proud member of thewe Do Not Care Club?
If you know, you know.
Channel that vibe right Outyour ADHD proudly.
(29:48):
I forgot your birthday becausemy brain cleared its cookies.
That's my bad.
Let's celebrate belatedly.
Ps, also, I personally lovelate birthdays.
I think it makes the fun lastlonger.
So if I celebrate your birthdaylate, just remember it's
because I love you and latebirthdays are great.
Okay, laugh at yourself.
Oh my God, of course my keysare in the fridge.
(30:09):
They were hot in my hand.
I was hot.
Ariella Monti (30:11):
I put my face in the fridge.
Caitlin Kindred (30:13):
Of course that's where they are.
Why not Right?
Find ways to laugh at yourselfand find ways to go.
You know what this is me Like.
This is who I am.
If I don't laugh at it, I'll cryor feel shame.
So just be okay with it, it'sall right, and then keep trying.
There will be times when youmake yourself angry or
(30:34):
frustrated and you start toshame spiral again.
Of course that's going tohappen.
It's wired into your brain.
Or the lack of chemicals, thehappy-kept-go-with-all-the-mean,
is part of why it happens too.
Right?
But that perseverance that youhave, your tenacity, your humor,
you know how to use thosethings to your advantage in
other areas of your life.
Let's apply them here too.
(30:55):
Okay, so I just gave you seven,seven, seven.
Sometimes I get excited and Italk too fast and then I don't
understand what I'm saying.
But I just gave you seven oreight different ways to fight
(31:17):
shame in your life.
If you're an ADHD person, proneto shame spiraling, you're going
to separate the morality fromthe science.
Name your shame, rewrite yourstory, expect respect from
others and yourself.
You're going to find yourpeople.
You're going to create somesystems that help you prevent
shame and you're going topractice that shamelessness, and
(31:38):
then you're going to keeptrying, okay, so remember that
shame thrives in isolation andfeeling alone, and the more
alone you feel, the more shameyou have.
You're not alone, though, ifyou are reach out, because there
are lots of people willing toshare their experiences,
(31:59):
especially ADHDers, and women inparticular.
If you have an ADHD stereotypethat you're tired of hearing,
please share it with myself.
For Ariella at CKGK Podcast orat Ariella underscore Monty on
Instagram.
We'd love to hear it and we'llrant about it together.
Ariella Monti (32:15):
Yeah, yeah, I like to rant, I love ranting.
Caitlin Kindred (32:18):
yep, the couple I mean the couples that hate
together stay together.
Just saying there's likescience that backs that up.
By the way.
Yep, um, next week we'retalking about self-care for adhd
brains.
It's not bubble baths, so stickaround for that.
Um, until then, repeat after me.
I'm not broken, I am different.
And shut up, gladys, we'll beright back.
(32:45):
Hey y'all.
Pov you find a diary exposingforbidden magic and the hot
museum caretaker's life dependson you burning it.
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The debut novel by AriellaMonti is the fantasy romance for
rebels.
Use promo code CKANDGK to get20% off your copy at
(33:05):
AriellaMonticom.
Again, that's all capsC-K-A-N-D-G-K for 20% off on
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Get your copy for 20% off onarielamontecom.
Get your copy for 20% off today.
(33:27):
Okay, we're back.
Guess what?
Ariella Monti (33:31):
What, what.
Caitlin Kindred (33:35):
The delayed response is everything, God.
Now I don't even know what Iwas going to say oh my goodness,
I seriously don't even knowwhat I was going to say.
It doesn't even matter.
(33:57):
Silence was literallyeverything.
Guess what?
Oh me what.
I don't even have anything elseto add Like I can't, I think
we're going to go, we're justgoing to wrap this up because I
can't.
Just I can bring it back no no,it's good, we're good, we're
(34:21):
just gonna, we're just, we'regonna see you next time make
better choices than me.
Ariella Monti (34:27):
Love you mean it?
Bye.
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