September 10, 2020 • 50 mins
Baratunde learns about mutual aid and local, distributed approaches to feeding ourselves during this time of crisis. José Andrés, chef, humanitarian, and founder of World Central Kitchen, speaks about the power of food to build community, and his belief that we can indeed feed ourselves with dignity in this moment if we have the political will to do so. Two representatives of the LA Community Fridge movement tell us about how neighbors are feeding neighbors and learning more about each other in the process.
While COVID has exposed the fragility of so many systems including how we eat, we look at two approaches to feeding ourselves that are largely outside the realm of government action and funding, both anchored by local community action, and provide new ways to address the food crisis in America.
Show Notes + Links
We are grateful to José Andrés and Liana Sanchez and Katelan Cunningham, volunteers with LA Community Fridges.
Follow @ChefJoseAndres on Twitter and @lacommunityfridges on IG and their linktree here.
We will post this episode, a transcript, show notes and more at howtocitizen.com.
Please show your support for the show in the form of a review and rating. It makes a huge difference with the algorithmic overlords!
ACTIONS FOR THIS EPISODE, HERE IS WHAT YOU CAN DO
Internal Action:
Internalize the idea of mutual aid versus charity by reflecting on these questions.
- Is it easy for you to ask your neighbors for help? Why or why not?
- Think of a time when someone tried to help you and had good intentions, but missed the mark because they didn’t listen. How did that make you feel? Did you tell them they missed the mark in meeting your need? Why or why not? (Hint: your response often relates to power dynamics in a relationship).
- Think of a time when you asked for help from someone you knew and that you had supported in the past. Was it easy or hard to receive from them?
- If your brother or sister was in need, would you prefer giving to a charity to help them or supporting them directly?
Explore more about mutual aid during this pandemic here and here.
External Action:
Look into whether your neighborhood could benefit from a Community Fridge or some other mutual aid project depending on what your community needs.
These two guides, here and here, will help you get started. Please note, this is a mutual aid model! So if you find yourself wanting to set up a top-down nonprofit or collect funds to operate or structure the work, your efforts are not aligned with mutual aid. Please read more in the links above about how mutual aid works.
Lend your voice to make sure the bipartisan The FEED Act becomes law.
Under this proposed law, local, state, and tribal governments would be allowed to contract with restaurants and nonprofits to distribute meals using existing FEMA disaster funds. It is a bipartisan bill - introduced in the Senate by Kamala Harris and Tim Scott and introduced in the House by both parties!! But it’s stuck. We want you to help unstick it.
Call the U.S. Capitol main number to reach your elected officials -- (202) 224-3121-
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to How to Citizen with Baritu Day, a show
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(00:26):
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I'm the best emailer while I love the live audience.
Don't worry. I'll catch up with just you on the
(01:51):
other side of this conversation where I'll give you some
really specific ways to Citizen for this episode. In the meantime,
I'm gonna hand of Mike to myself as I set
up the conversation with our amazing guests. COVID nineteen is
a truth serum, and whether we like it or not,
it reveals the fragility of so many of our systems,
(02:14):
housing policing, how many zooms one human can take a day.
I think the answers for on that last one. One
area of acute vulnerability that COVID has exposed is our
access to food. We've got farmers burning crops and warehouses
of strawberries rotting because we aren't in business as usual.
(02:35):
We've seen the miles long images of people going to
food banks, but rising to these challenges are restaurants, chefs,
and communities who are figuring out new ways to involve
everyone and productively feeding ourselves and our neighbors. In this episode,
we look at two approaches that exist largely outside the
(02:56):
realm of government, but well within the realm of people power.
Although they differ in several ways, both are anchored by
people committed to local community action as the way to
address the food crisis in America. I sat down with
chef Jose Andres to hear what he and his organization,
World Central Kitchen have learned about tapping into the resources
(03:19):
and needs at the local level to help communities help
themselves across the US and around the world. But before
we go global with Jose, I realized there was a
model in my own backyard, right in Los Angeles. Back
in July, a friend had texted me about something called
the l a community fridge, a network of decentralized, independent
(03:42):
refrigerators and pantries that provide food and vital supplies to
communities through mutual aid. It may have started in New
York City, but now these fridges are popping up all
over the country. It's basically a set of public refrigerators,
usually hosted by a local business like Grows to Restore, Restauranto, bodega,
(04:02):
and it's stopped, used and maintained by people in the neighborhood.
And they coordinate by every means. They've got WhatsApp groups,
Slack groups, conference calls, printed paper signs, and forms. I
sat down with two l A Community fridge volunteers, Caitlin
and Leanna, to learn more. I'm curious for each of
(04:30):
you how you initially got involved in the community fridge project.
I think I remember in June I had some friends
contact me and asked me if I wanted to be
involved in this. They had seen the New York group
in our Hearts their community fridge efforts and been like,
you know, we should do this here. L A is
(04:51):
so dense with people. This is something we definitely need.
And I had never really heard of community fridges before,
but I was like, okay, I've got time. I'm in Like,
this seems like something that's relatively easy to do and
it's you know, it's going to benefit so many people. Yeah,
So it's very hyperlocal and community driven. UM I had
(05:14):
mentioned that, like when I came into the community, I
was already kind of looking into restaurants. But people kind
of come to us at any stage. Some people come
to us after they've already set up a fridge, and
they've already picked a host, and they've already used all
the resources um that have been built and taken it
upon themselves to do all these things and get things
set up. But I think that's kind of one of
(05:34):
the main goals is to give everyone the resources they
need so they can do whatever they're able to do.
So if they want to hop in and they want
to find a host, and that's kind of like the
amount that they're willing to put in, that's totally fine.
And then as far as who's stalking them, we try
to encourage folks whenever they start a fridge to get
like a cohort of people who kind of agree to
(05:54):
go by the fridge at least every day to clean it,
to keep an eye on it, to keep it stocked.
And I feel like after the ball gets rolling with
it and the community really adopts it, it kind of
runs on its own. To a certain extent, of course,
like things need to be cleaned and everything. But we
have a slack behind the scenes where we're able to
keep in touch with each other and kind of let
each other know, like someone just reported that the fridge
(06:16):
really dirty. Can someone go hop over there and take
a look at it. Take me through that very elementary
step of getting one of these fridges going. We do
have a lot of resources on our link tree um
about how to find potential hosts. I think we did
make a fridge checklist, like, oh, you want to start
your own fridge, to make it very easy for people,
(06:37):
because that is ultimately the goal is like we're not
trying to do everything and oversee every fridge in l A.
It's like anyone can do this. It's definitely a collective effort.
One of the common questions is like, well, how much
is electricity costs? It costs about thirty bucks a month,
and most of the hosts, I think all of our
hosts are like paying that, you know, on their own.
(07:00):
Most of them are like markets and restaurants. There are
some anomalies they're the community centers and things like that.
Are these all the same community? Are they distinct populations?
What is the community around the community fridge look like,
the goal is for it to be kind of like
all things to all people, right, is for all of
us to be able to use it, and especially to
(07:22):
get even more hyper focused from the word community like
neighborhood based. Um, so what does that neighborhood need? Like
an unhoused person can't really use uncooked rice, but a
small family might be able to use uncooked rice, And
like what is the community of people that that fridge
is serving? And how can we best serve those people? Yeah,
the people who are in the slack, who are updating
(07:42):
and stuff. There's like different channels for each fridge and
we keep each other updated, like, oh, you know, vegetables
aren't really moving at this fridge will redistribute it somewhere else,
or people will put a food prep it. So it's
you know, more of a grab and go kind of meal,
but it's you know, it's definitely a learning herb. And
I think another thing is when someone gets something done,
(08:03):
they bring it to the group. We have a weekly
meeting every Monday, and so you're kind of like, hey,
I made this thing, what do you all think about it?
How can you be better? What didn't I think of?
It's just like what Leanna said, like you kind of
just skip ahead and do the thing if you think
people need it, and then be very willing and open
to accept feedback um to make it the most usable
for the most people. I'd love you to explain more
(08:24):
of this term mutual aid as the model that you
are using to delivered a service as opposed to operating
a formal charity. What's the difference and why have you
chosen to model yours on this design of mutual aid? UM. Well,
one of the things I think is actually kind of
connected to hierarchy. Typically with charities, you have people with
(08:47):
more money giving money to people who don't have the money,
and so they're sort of controlling what they think other
people want or making decisions for what they think other
people want, and so that hierarchy and power it just
never quite feels right. It doesn't quite feel like you're
really servicing people and helping people in the way that
(09:08):
they need. So one thing about the mutual aid the
way that that's organized is the lack of hierarchy really
helps with that. It kind of um empowers you to
take on the thing that you think needs to be
done and to best service the folks who you're trying
to help. I think another distinction too, is that we
don't collect any money. And I mean this is like
a fridge specific thing, but like the food is the currency,
(09:31):
Like that is the thing that we're trying to empower
folks with. So we actually try to like actively avoid
anyone giving us any money because then it just becomes
a different project. I think that just becomes a different
type of organizations. So whenever folks want to help or
like go get food and put it in a fridge,
that's the best way that you can possibly help with
the fridges. Or sometimes well default to not asking for
(09:52):
many in other ways. For example, if we need some
one to help with maintenance with the fridges, we don't say, like, hey,
can you give us money we need to repair some fridges.
We say, hey, do you know how to repair a fridge,
and we get a bunch of folks in and they
can help us with that. You cut out the middle
party in this case money money exactly as the medium. Yeah,
things done a lot more quickly. Yeah. Yeah, I knew
(10:13):
money was the problem. I know it. I knew it
the whole day. There's been some criticism of this model
from people in the food justice community who see these
fridges as not sustainable or as not truly meeting the
needs of the people who are pulling from the fridge
in the same way, and they read it still as
a charitable model of those with more time or more resources,
(10:35):
maybe more access to slack delivering unto people who don't.
How do you respond to that criticism or other criticism
you've received of your approach. It's not only people who
are on Slack, and I do think that there is
a big need and they are feeding a lot of people.
There's a fridge that's set up pretty close to me,
and I was talking to one of the people who
(10:56):
lives at the place that's hosting it, and you was
saying that some cleaning ladies on their way to work
will like deep clean the fridge like once or twice
a week with their supplies and stuff. And it's like
they obviously are not slack, they're on Instagram, they're probably
not like in tune, but it's like they're on the
ground and they see it in front of them and
they want to care and help be you know, other
(11:19):
members of their community. So those are the people who
are also leaving food, but maybe taking something that they need.
You know, it's give and take, and I think it
definitely benefits everyone. And I want to see a lot
of these fridges around because there's so much food, so
much food waste, and everyone needs to see. What has
(11:39):
surprised each of you as you've become a part of
this effort. One of the things that I found really surprising,
I don't know if surprising is the right word, but exciting. Um.
Whenever we had first started the East Hollywood Bridge in
July was the first few days, what you saw was
a lot of people taking a lot of things because
they're used to living in this scarcity mentality. I mean,
(12:01):
if you I think we all, we all sort of
had this happen to us at the beginning of the pandemic,
where you went to the grocery store and you're like,
I guess we're never eating beans ever again. Like you're
just like, I guess there's just no more beans in
the world. So of course, as soon as they get beans,
like you take way more than you need because you
don't know when they're going to have that thing again,
you know. Um. And so what was really exciting was
after that first week of constantly, really adamantly refilling the fridge.
(12:25):
It just sort of like created a flow in a
system to where you didn't see as many people like
rabbing so many things because they trusted that something was
going to be there the next day. So I wouldn't
say that was surprising, but it was like very interesting
and memorable connection to make it my own head, especially
at the time of COVID when we were all kind
of like experiencing that in different ways. So just this
understanding that, you know, people take more than they need
(12:48):
when they don't know how long they're going to have
to need it, you know. I think something that's been
surprising for me is just how many nice and sweet
people live all over lay, Like whether it's people who
help with the fridges or people who use the fridges
and you run into. It's so nice to just meet
people and like have genuine conversations with people who care,
(13:10):
especially like in this weird time where you're only seeing
people's eyes everyone's wearing a mask. But yeah, I love
the just the little connections that you make and not
surprising me because that's not something I thought would come
along with this. How have you managed conflict in operating
this network of fridges, we have these common resources, these
(13:31):
documents that are like this is our value statement, and
this is how we choose a host, and we all
agree upon those documents. And so you sort of set
these guidelines up front and empower people to work within
those guidelines. And of course if you feel like there's
an issue with a certain guideline, then you bring it
to the meeting um. But I think that that kind
of helps move things along a little bit more quickly.
So you wrote a constitution and then strive to live
(13:54):
up to it in the same vein, how are you
dealing with local authorities who may have different ideas about
how to regulate these We've had a few fridges that
have had some of those issues. One a few of
them were cited by the city for health violations or
just the city code. To me, it seems like police
(14:14):
are just using anything to write it up. Because we
had a fridge in Compton and it got shut down
by authorities. They said it couldn't be out there. The
violation was like leaving machinery that's broken outside and obviously
it's like plugged in running there's food in it. And
then like they thought it and they ended up starting
(14:36):
the fridge back up again, but then somebody cut the
cord and it's like still sitting there empty. But since
it hasn't been running and sitting there empty, which actually
that is breaking you know, the code, they haven't been
written up at all. So it's to me it seems
like police are picking and choosing, or city you know
officials are picking and choosing. Um. But we have had
(14:57):
to remove a fridge because we don't want the businesses
that are hosting to get sided obviously. And then the
example that Leanna gave my understanding is that several different
city officials at different levels interacted with the fridge and
they all like didn't really speak to each other. So
it definitely seems like there's an inconsistency and kind of
like what the discrepancy is there? For sure? Um, But
(15:19):
obviously food health and safety is very critical, which is
why it is so critical to have a clean fridge
all the time and to take dirty stuff out of
it whenever you see dirty stuff in it. Um. And
I just think that that really just comes with frequency,
and I think the healthiest fridge is one where the
food doesn't stay in it for longer than six hours anyway,
which is kind of what the East Hollywood fridge is.
(15:40):
It's like nothing's there for if it's there today will
absolutely be gone tomorrow. What lessons would you share with
someone who wants to work in their neighborhood for mutual aid.
I feel like the biggest lesson that I've learned that
kind of does connect to this is like the more
people on hand, the more people who you have to help,
(16:01):
the more connections you make, the easier everything is. You
don't want a few people over working putting so much time.
Like if there's a lot of people, everything works more
smoothly and there's a lot more support for maintaining the
fridges and getting everything together. Yeah, I would agree with that,
I think likely. And I said, we have a ton
(16:23):
of resources that folks can use so they don't have
to start from scratch. And I believe that we adopted
some of those resources from New York as well. So
I think we're all kind of like learning as we
go and adapting as we go. But I think often
when we have people come into the group, solutions to
problems look like policing in a way, or like trying
to control a situation. It might be like, oh, people
(16:44):
are abusing the fridge after hours, we should lock the
fridge after hours. And so I think one thing I've learned,
just like as a human being is that how do
you provide resources so that folks can have what they need?
That's like literally what the whole fridge model is there for.
So we're always kind of instead of saying, like, how
do we cut this off? How do we make boundaries
(17:04):
around this? We're always trying to make it bigger. We're
always trying to help people with what they need. So
we've had conversations about frid Is being more than just
frid Is, about people perhaps bringing like clothes to donate
and things like that. So rather than just immediately cutting
it off and say okay, we don't accept close, saying like,
all right, how do we make clothes work. Let's give
this a shot. Let's put a clothing right there, Let's
see if people tend to it. Let's see how that works. UM.
(17:26):
So I think always defaulting what is the improv saying
like always defaulting to yet yes and right, It's like yes,
and it's a very like yes and community, um to
sort of get people what they need and see what
the right solution is because it's kind of breaking a
lot of rules to start, So like, why create more
rules when we could give people the things that they
say that they need the story of the local cleaning
(17:57):
ladies regularly cleaning the community fridge in their neighborhood on
the way to work, that struck a chord with me.
That's a sign of ownership. They see value in these
fridges and they feel invested enough to contribute with their
own time and skills. At the end of this episode
will share ways you can support or even start your
(18:18):
own community fridge. But right now, let's go to our
conversation with Chef Jose Andres. We are hungry. Can you
take me back to Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico. I
was inside the female headquarters, in the room where was
(18:41):
supposed to be, the room where he happens, where it
was supposed to be, deciding how many people were hungry,
who was going to do it? And after listening to
the powers to be almost for an hour, I realized
that was not planned. I realized that everybody was finger
(19:01):
pointing at somebody else or responsibilities. I realized that everybody
was trying and used to do it. Together. I realized
that many of these people, they didn't even move from
that big convention center. And if you are not moving
away from the convention center, how do you really know
(19:22):
what's happening across the island. And that moment I realized
we began already by then doing close to ten thousand
meals a day. We never said no to anybody that
asked for food. So that's where we went from ten
friends three days after the hurricane, a whole bunch of
chefs that they responded to my what's up saying I'm here,
(19:46):
and they I'm here meant I'm here, let's cook together.
We went from ten friends to more than twenty five
thousand men and women volunteers. Puto Ricans fed Puto Ricans.
We went from one kitchen to and the six. We
went from thousand mills the first day two hundred fifty
thousand meals a day, we did almost four million mills.
(20:09):
Even we did millions more because we were able to
give ideas to others about what to do. How does
World Central Kitchen operate and how different is that from
some of these other organizations you mentioned, the Red Cross
Female We are different because nothing is more powerful than
(20:30):
the local community. Why because nobody knows best what the
community needs. This mentality that the people coming from the
side and they are telling the locals what they need,
versus as shutting up and listening more to them what
they really need. This is used one of the main
(20:53):
difference that boll Centered Kitchen does. Obviously, in an emergency,
people are shocked and be a whore can come the earthquake,
a typhoon of fires, and yes, you need to come
from the outside and trying to create certain systems to
start in our case feeling, we don't plan, we don't meet,
(21:14):
We put boots on the ground and we start feeding.
In the process of feeding, what really we're doing is
gathering intelligence in the process of feeding. What really we know,
it's what's happening one community at the time. In the
process of feeding, locals began joining us. In the process
of feeding, we create an army of good. In the
(21:36):
process of feeding, we have information that other people sitting
down in the comfort of their headquarters don't have. And
at the end, that's what we do. We put boots
on the ground and we start providing food and water.
In the process, we increase until there is no more need.
In the process, we learned what other end us are doing.
(21:57):
If these others doing, we try to partner. If they
don't want a partner, that's fine. We keep seeing so
we don't leave anybody behind. And what we do better
than anybody is that we go to the forgotten places,
to the forgotten neighborhoods where sometimes police tells you don't
go there because it's too dangerous to go. And you
(22:18):
know where, I learned that those places that they are
too dangerous to go, you bring hope through food and water,
and you aren't playing with the kids basketball or you
end helping an elderly person moved to a more safe location.
And that those places that somehow they tell us they
are dangerous because it's used I don't know, a different
(22:39):
part of town. You learned that there is no danger.
That the only danger we face is not knowing people
that live in our own cities and our own communities
and not listening to their needs. Have you ever felt
overwhelmed by the size of the help needed, and if so,
(22:59):
how did you work through that. Does the stress of
a restaurant kitchen help you work through the stress of
an overwhelming public need in the face of disaster. I
think the moment that for me was crazy is when
I saw the images of Katrina and especially on the Superdome.
And this is something like I've been playing in my head.
(23:20):
I wish I could go back in time, be there
right before Katrina heat. Not like we want to go
through and try to do more good to the people
that suffer in an unnecessary way by not being ready
for them. What happened in the Superdome alone was never
supposed to happen many Americans alone in a stadium with
(23:41):
no food, no water, no basics, sanitation in mind. If
we were there a group of cooks. You know what
a stadium means. You know what an arena is? An arena?
People have it wrong. It's not a music venue. It's
not a sports venue. It's a gigantic restaurant that entertains
with the sports and musician. I just gotta that's a
very uh, chef centric view of arena. I love it.
(24:05):
And at the end of the day, if we were
able to do that, to put all the foot vendors
up there, up and running the food spots, I bring
few of my friend chefs. We got some of the
volunteers there and we start organizing used by feeling people
and bringing them water and hope, and then we bring
everything else. But you see the big problems. They have
(24:26):
very simple solution. Can you talk briefly about like what
food is to you in terms of its connection to security,
it's connection to community. Um, why is food special? Well,
food is especial because we are highly attached to our mothers.
And in a way, one of the things that creates
(24:47):
this amazing bond beyond that she's been carrying all of
us for nine months, is that within hours of being
born our mother, our father, they're feeling us immediate And
this is a link that for ever, it's not forgotten,
even if we were highly unaware of the moment. If
I could go back one second in my life, I
(25:07):
we love to go and being a word the moment
my mother fed me. This makes food being this kind
of powerful way of saying. Food equals comfort, foot equals
somebody that loves you. Food equals home, foot equals family,
foot equals safety is beyond the physical need. So that's
(25:29):
why it's so important. We don't think deep enough about it,
but I do believe that link. I wish I could
prove the theory and maybe one day we can if
we can travel back to the past. And at the
end of the day you think about it. Unfortunately more
ways than one, boys like me, who are the ones
that are always giving praise or having the best restaurants
(25:52):
and feeding our cities and the most luxurious food. But
if you think for a second and you go around
the world and you stop and you go to Musambik
or Haiti or Peru or you know who, you know
who feeds the world. Women are who feeds the world,
not only because they feed us all the mothers when
(26:14):
we're born, but beyond that, who is really feeding the
world are always woman in every corner, in every street.
They're the ones feeling the people of the world. So
white food is important. Byetts around the French philosopher in
tell me what you eat, and I will tell you
who you are. Yes, food is who we are. And
(26:38):
he said another phrase that was even more important. He said,
the destiny of the nation will depend on how they
feed themselves. So food is essential for human life, but
is much deeper than that. Give us hope of a
better tomorrow, give us a sense of community, give a
sense of peace, give a sense that things are okay.
(27:01):
That's why we must defend the right of every child
in American around the world to have access the food
that empowers them to achieve every dream that a John
boy or girl can have. Can you share what you're
working on in terms of applying the World Central Kitchen
(27:21):
model to our COVID situation and in particular this bill
that you are working on with Senator Kamala Harris, which
is an escalation even further of your work in the
world beyond running restaurants. Back in the day, it's called
the featat and was to put restaurants upon working especially
family on a small restaurants to make sure that between
(27:44):
the federal government and years like ours and the local
governments the mayors are at the front lines, we will
be able to activate the restaurants to take care of
the local food needs, elderly homes, homeless, hospitals for responders
and who amazing the federal government through FEMA supports the
(28:07):
local needs one seri at the time through local businesses
where the restaurants are working, they can be paying salaries
to the people locals, no locals. Best they know where
they need is working in alliance with the local mayors,
feeding the communities in need. In the process, the money
(28:28):
goes into the economy. Restaurants can pay rent, people can
pay food for their children, and the rent at home
we can buy from local farmers. At the end, one
dollar is multiplied by four. This is smart and that's
what we've been trying to do. We have twenty restaurants
total across forty estates and at one point we were
(28:50):
doing three hundred fifty meals a day. We are ready
in the north of thirty million mills through this pandemic.
And what we did was obvious at the very beginning.
Many Enginos, many of them run by elderly people. They
had to be home because that was the safe thing
to do. So many engeos kind of shut down business
(29:11):
at the early stages of this pandemic. Many hospitals they
had function in restaurants because while they built the hospitals
in the wrong way and the kitchens were in the
middle of the wrong place, or people didn't come to
work well because public transportation ended well because people were
getting sick, so wasn't our kitchen. First thing we did
(29:31):
was the start covering those needs. We've done hundreds of
hospitals across America. We did all the hospitals in Manhattan,
in Bronz, in Harlem, in Queens. We began going to
the very forgotten communities, a lot of Black communities, a
lot of Latino communities. We began feeding elderly care centers.
(29:51):
That's what we began doing, use covering the black holes
of the system. And I'm very proud we did it
because was necessary and we were able to apply our
experience to tell Congress, we're showing you what has to
be done. We are showing you what we should be doing.
(30:12):
We reached through to opeds New York Times and watching
them post. We told the White House, if I was you,
this is why I we'll do. With all Congress, if
we were you, this is what we will do. We're
testing that we're already doing it. Support us to keep
doing this work beyond what we are already doing. And
so far, let's hope this bill will pass, but there's
(30:33):
many other things that have to happen to fit America
can be done. It's political will. If Americans go hungry
in the weeks and months to come, it's because we
had a political way to stop it. We cannot stop tomorrow.
The pandemic, but we can stop tomorrow hunger in America.
If you were to define the words citizen, not as
(30:56):
a legal status, but as a verb, how would you
define it? You know, citizen, I would say, is used
to provide for the people you don't know, the same
you're trying to provide for your own. That should be
the true million of citizenship. If you only think about
your own, it's okay, so okay, you take care of
(31:18):
your own, but you will never protect your children, your
family if you are not hoping to work hard to
provide for others the same you're aiming for your own. Hey,
I'm from Spain. I know about castles. Somebody that tells
you that by putting your family inside for wolves, your
family is gonna be safer. I like guns, you know
(31:40):
I should sometimes when I'm in a Spain or here,
nothing wrong, I love it. But if you think like
putting people in four wolves and you just gonna that's
the way you're gonna be protecting your family. Look at
the Spain, we had castles and we were in beaded anyway,
what is really going to be providing you comfort and
safety are not higher walls but actually no walls along
(32:04):
their tables. Make sure you share the wealth of what
you're trying to get on your own with others, and
you'll be safer than you've ever dream of being. So
that's why we describe it. One must be good for
you must be good for others. It's not either person,
but with the people. I want to give some space
(32:34):
to our live audience. We have a question from Kathleen.
So this is an incredibly difficult time for human beings
to do what we normally do, which is to come
together physically, and it's something that is missing in all
of our lives. So when we talk about for those
of us who may be in a vulnerable population, or
(32:57):
taking care of children, taking care of elderly kinds of
things that we can do to help the organizations that
you're talking about who do provide support to the food challenge.
We have a program here in Portland, Oregon called Blanchet House,
so I've been getting people together to make sandwiches for them.
I feel like there has to be more that we
(33:18):
can do. So on your website, do you have a
list of all of the organizations and restaurants so that
we can expand our knowledge and our support even further,
because sometimes the only thing that we can do is
get together a coalition of people and make sandwiches and
take them to Blanchet House. So even more specific things
(33:41):
that we can do in our isolation to help other
than write a check. Yeah, I mean the complication of
asking everybody to do food and deliver. Obviously everybody can
do that, and I think this is great, but also
we need to be careful. I remember in the early
days of the pandemic that allot of random people were
bringing food to hospital. Actually that was not the best
(34:03):
for the hospitals because they already were going through hardships
and to have to be handling people that in good
will they were trying to bring food every day was
creating some mayhem in some hospitals. As you may understand.
That's way for us to organize it in a systemic
way that everybody knows at what hour you're delivering, to
whom you're delivering, and you bring chaos out of the equation.
(34:27):
And this is very important. But one of the things
that I want to mention that I'm very proud of
the early days wasn't the kitchen went to Yokohama to
feed princess cruise ship six thousand Americans, many Americans, six
thousand people, eighteen thousand meals a day in Yokohama. From
there we moved to Auckland to feed also another princess
(34:50):
cruise ship. That were the two big cruise ships that
got copied and from Japan. We already realized even we
were following what was happening in China. I was learning
about how the restaurants in China were handling, how the
food systems were happening. Where Chinese people in the middle
of Bohan running out of food, how are the distribution.
(35:11):
So I began pulling a lot of thinking in that.
So by beginning of March, we got what we called
the Food Safety for COVID nineteenth and we created a
little puppet called MASKI Mask M A. S k Y,
which is this guy with this big mask that he
began telling all of us how to behave, how to
(35:33):
behave in the restaurant, how to cook in the restaurant.
In a moment we didn't know how bad this virus boss.
To keep distance, to wear gloves, to sanitation washing hands,
to wear the mask, to even wear glasses, but also
how to deliver how to do take up, how to
keep people wearing in line outside the restaurants six feet aboy.
(35:53):
We did these circles in mid March that MASKI will
be telling you all the things everybody need to know.
And we did this across many of the places we
were delivering food every day. Probably we've been delivering food
I don't know in more than sixteen teams at one
point twenty thousand places a day, all across America. And
(36:15):
for me, I wanted to use that moment to keep
sending the message from early March about how we had
to behave to keep everybody safe. One of the things
I'm very proud is that of the restaurants we've been
having without we don't have to close one. We keep
everybody safe, everybody doing good, everybody healthy. This to me
(36:37):
was very important because in the early days I had
a lot of pressure on men will happen if something
happens to somebody, because I'm asking them to cook. Obviously,
everybody we have cooking in my restaurants or through Words
and Drag Kitchen. There are volunteers and they do it
with the heart. So the number one responsibility what you
can do is keep everybody safe. When you do this,
(36:57):
make sure you keep doing it, that we don't bring
our guard on. The pandemic is gonna go with still
for a few weeks, a few months. We need to
make sure that we don't bring our guard down. We
need to think that wearing a mask, or wearing gloves
or keeping distance shouldn't be because you are from one
political party on another. Should be because you are making
(37:17):
sure that you protect yourself but also you protect others
from you. This is what is to be a good citizen.
This is what is to be a good American. And
every American I know they don't want any bad to
happen to other people. So man, the only sacrifice we
have to do is work masks and word gloves and
keep distance versus soldiers men and women that they've gone
(37:39):
overseas and put their lives at risks, flying for freedom
of others and democracy and protecting America. Wow, this is
the all sacrifice I have to do to keep moving forward.
So this is important. This is one thing beyond feeling
that we all should be doing. To say, wearing a
mask shouldn't be political, keeping distance shouldn't be politics. Being
(38:00):
respectful to others should be what's a citizen means and
being an American means that we the people, we are
gonna look after each other. If on top of that,
you're able to be doing feedling, that's that's where I
go to Ward Central Kitchen. You'll see what we do.
But we are not the only organization. The banks of America,
the food banks through Feeding America, they've done a great job,
(38:22):
but they need to be funded by government. Right to
your Senator, right to your Congressman, and tell them why
are you not supporting with all the needs of every
single food bank across America. The school lunches, they should
be increased, not only to feed children, but also to
feed the family of the children's in need. Make sure
that every school becomes the heart, the Troy and horse
(38:45):
for good of the community. Right to your Senator and
to your congressmen and tell them support the school lunches initiatives.
Make sure that every etherly home is spaid in the
right way, protecting the people so we keep them in
safe heavens and we don't lose anymore elderly because the
curless leadership in the early days of this pandemic and
(39:05):
we let them alone is many ways we can keep helping.
One of them is keeping everybody safe and telling others
to keep everybody safe by doing the same you do.
And more important, keep righting to your senators and your
congressmen and tell them to feed an American in need.
Is not a Republican or a Democratic issue. It's an
American citizen issue. Fit everybody through this pandemic, and maybe
(39:30):
we'll move away from this pandemic. Is stronger, no weaker. Jose,
I cannot thank you enough for sharing of your extraordinarily
in demand time with us here and how the citizen
with Barraton Day you have modeled so well what it
means to citizens proving and living out which you've asked
(39:51):
us all to do that what's good for you, it's
good for us all. And thank you for living by
the words that you've just shared. Peace, love, Thank you,
thank you, thank you, Hello you, my friend. I've got
to cut in here just for you listener and let
(40:12):
you know what's about to happen. So we were in
the zoom, Jose was saying thank you and I love you,
and Tranquilo and the live audience is very excited to
have spent some time and got to ask some questions,
and I'm about to wrap this thing up. I'm about
to bring it home. And then Jose cuts back in.
(40:33):
I thought he was gone. I thought he was gone.
And he cuts back in and he starts kind of
pounding his fist on his chest. Uh in a in
a loving gesture. He's pounding his fist on his chest,
and he prepares to add one more thought to our
interview about what we can do in the age of coronavirus.
(40:59):
By any way, this is the way we should be saying. Hi, elbows,
no more elbows. Everybody cough in the elbow, and then
we're go giving elbows? Are we pricy? Are we pricy?
If this is a spreading? Are we spreading? And throw
our elbows? Never an elbow? Anymore elbows for coughing. You
(41:20):
do these and that's all the people need now, man
or or or what kind of forever in honor of
our already gone friends. But no more elbowing. And we
are getting America injured again. Everybody is having an elbow issue?
Are we pricing? And if you love a person a lot,
(41:42):
you do three, but never elbows again? Are we stupid?
We get too close with the elbow. Every time I elbow,
somebody's if this kissing me? No, Hans is fourther away. Sorry,
I had to man, no more elbows, are we not.
There's a there's a lot of things. There's a lot
(42:02):
of things I did not expect in and that just
became the number one thing I did not expect Jose
Andrews ranting against the elbow for amazing reasons. No, no, no,
do not apologize. That is only that. Okay, that's it, alright, armano, alright,
(42:25):
wakonda forever Yo. That was Jose Andre's chef, entrepreneur, humanitarian,
big citizen and defender of the realm of hygiene and
safety when it comes to interpersonal greetings. So wonderful. I
(42:47):
heard a lot there, and I just want to reflect
intuitively about it. We thought we knew why we wanted
jose to be a part of this show because he
has worked in a way that unlocks the capacity within
the communities that he's attempting to help and not just
distribute top down aid upon them. And that came through
(43:09):
glaringly to me just now that this is a well
thought out, compassionate and highly integrated system that's not just
either person but one that is run by, for and
with we the people. He said, nothing is more powerful
then local community. And the only real danger in those
(43:30):
dangerous communities is not knowing what they really need because
we're not listening, we're not asking those questions. Food waste
is a problem, but wasting people is a much bigger one.
And we have an opportunity to tap people to do
more to help each other out in this moment that
we're in. This idea that the meaning of citizen, to
(43:53):
Jose is that we essentially do for others as we
want done to ourselves, but that we give to there's
that which we demand for ourselves, and that we cannot
secure ourselves alone, just like we cannot citizen alone. What's
the point of being in a society? To build walls
and bear arms alone is not going to bring us safety.
(44:17):
Lower those walls and extend the table so that we
all might be nourished, so that we all might eat,
so that we all might feed on all the beauty
that food provides us, which isn't just the nutrition, it's
the love, it's the connection, it's the community, and that
will allow us to show up stronger literally in all
(44:39):
these other areas that we need strength for especially now,
hey you, it's me again and it's just us. And
whether it's Leanna and Caitlin from the l A Community
Fridges or Jose Andrace with the World Central Kitchen, we
(44:59):
know that the are other ways for us to feed
ourselves and take care of each other. If you see
examples in your own community or been a part of them,
please send an email two comments at how to citizen
dot com and just let us know what you think
in general about this episode. And now it's your turn
to do some actions. In each episode, we love sharing
(45:20):
things you can do internally and externally to strengthen your
citizen practice. I don't want you to get all tripped
up on memorizing what I'm saying here. One you can
always rewind, but we make this available visually at how
to citizen dot com or even closer wherever you're listening
to this podcast right now in the show notes of
(45:40):
that app. For this episode feeding Ourselves our Way, Here
are three things you can do now. The first is internal.
It's kind of a journaling exercise. You can think it
out loud to yourself. You can send yourself an email
or voice memo. Or right, longhand, but we want you
to explore your relationship with different types of assistance, mutual
(46:04):
aid versus charitable aid. And I want you to think
about how comfortable you are in asking for help when
you're in need. Think about a time when someone tried
to help you with really good intentions, but they missed
the mark because they didn't listen. Think about these and
many other questions we have with more detail again in
(46:26):
the show notes or how to citizen dot com. But
I want you to get personal about your relationship with help,
both giving it and receiving it, and whether you notice
the difference when that help is mutual versus top down.
All right, so that's number one. Number two external action,
I want you to look into whether your community could
(46:47):
benefit from a community fridge or some other mutual aid project,
depending on what the actual needs are. I'm not gonna
say everybody needs a fridge, because maybe everybody doesn't, but
every commune to t needs something. So we've posted some
guides in the show notes and on how the citizen
dot com. But see if this is something that you
(47:08):
can start up or even better join, join, even typing
in to your favorite search engine. Mutual aid and insert
the name of your city or neighborhood. You may find
something you can be a part of. So that's number two,
number three, And finally, lend your voice to ensuring that
the Feed Act becomes law in the United States. This
(47:33):
is the piece of legislation in Jose Andres has been
advocating for and spoke about with US. It allows FEMA
to use already allocated disaster relief funds to feed people.
It allows for local, state, and tribal governments to form
contracts with local restaurants and nonprofits and small businesses to
(47:54):
make and distribute healthy meals. And it's bipartism. And how
often can we say that? In these times? There's a
House version and a Senate version and they're stalled. They
were part of a larger package. That package has been
held up for too many reasons for me to get into.
What I want you to do is call and have
this thing happen. There's a phone number two O two
(48:17):
two to four, three one to one. That's the general switchboard.
If you already know your REPS number, good for you.
If you don't check the show notes, we have resources
to help you make your first call to Congress, say
your name, be polite, be direct, be respectful, and let's
feed this country with the money and the food flowing
(48:41):
through local businesses and local restaurants who are actually on
the ground. If you take any of these actions reflecting
on mutual aid, creating or joining a mutual aid effort
in your community, calling Congress to demand passage of the
Feed Act, let us know about that. Send an email
to action. How does citizen dot com include feeding ourselves
(49:03):
in the subject line? And if you're feeling real excited,
you can share some of this on social media to
just use the hashtag how to citizen and we will
lift up as many of those as we can through
my accounts. If you liked what you've heard here and
what you've been hearing in this series so far, please
leave a review in your podcast app of choice, give
(49:24):
us the good rating if you're feeling that good about
the show, and stay connected by signing up for my newsletter.
At barrattune Day dot com, I announced the upcoming shows.
I provide links to get you into those live tapings
so you can ask questions and share your thoughts too.
How does Citizen with Bartune Day as a production of
(49:45):
I Heart Radio podcast executive produced by Miles Gray, Nick Stump,
Elizabeth Stewart, and Barrattune Day Thurston, Produced by Joel Smith
and edited by Justine Smith. Powered by you s
Welcome to How to Citizen with Baritu Day, a show
where we reimagine the word citizen as a verb, reclaim
it from those who weaponized it, and remind ourselves how
to wield our collective power. I'm Baritune Day. Like a
(00:26):
healthy democracy, this show is stronger with your participation, and
we have a number of ways for you to do
that in public. Use the hashtag how to Citizen when
you post about the show on social media, and I'll
share out some of your stories. To communicate with us directly,
send feedback and ideas to comments at how to citizen
(00:47):
dot com, and if you've taken the actions we recommend
at the end of each episode, share those with us
by emailing action at how to citizen dot com. We've
been moved by which you shared from the episode so
far and look forward to more into building future episodes
with you and your actions. Finally, what kind of podcast
(01:08):
host would I be if I didn't ask you to
rate and review the show? The fact that you're listening
right now makes you very qualified to offer a legitimate
and authentic rating or review, so please take a moment
to do that. We appreciate it. Now, a word on
how we make this show. We've record most of these
shows live in Zoom with a studio audience, cameras on
(01:30):
chat room lit up, and we take questions from you
for our guests. I'd love to have you joined for
future taping. Visit how does Citizen dot com and join
my email list for the invites and my amazing weekly emails.
I'm the best emailer while I love the live audience.
Don't worry. I'll catch up with just you on the
(01:51):
other side of this conversation where I'll give you some
really specific ways to Citizen for this episode. In the meantime,
I'm gonna hand of Mike to myself as I set
up the conversation with our amazing guests. COVID nineteen is
a truth serum, and whether we like it or not,
it reveals the fragility of so many of our systems,
(02:14):
housing policing, how many zooms one human can take a day.
I think the answers for on that last one. One
area of acute vulnerability that COVID has exposed is our
access to food. We've got farmers burning crops and warehouses
of strawberries rotting because we aren't in business as usual.
(02:35):
We've seen the miles long images of people going to
food banks, but rising to these challenges are restaurants, chefs,
and communities who are figuring out new ways to involve
everyone and productively feeding ourselves and our neighbors. In this episode,
we look at two approaches that exist largely outside the
(02:56):
realm of government, but well within the realm of people power.
Although they differ in several ways, both are anchored by
people committed to local community action as the way to
address the food crisis in America. I sat down with
chef Jose Andres to hear what he and his organization,
World Central Kitchen have learned about tapping into the resources
(03:19):
and needs at the local level to help communities help
themselves across the US and around the world. But before
we go global with Jose, I realized there was a
model in my own backyard, right in Los Angeles. Back
in July, a friend had texted me about something called
the l a community fridge, a network of decentralized, independent
(03:42):
refrigerators and pantries that provide food and vital supplies to
communities through mutual aid. It may have started in New
York City, but now these fridges are popping up all
over the country. It's basically a set of public refrigerators,
usually hosted by a local business like Grows to Restore, Restauranto, bodega,
(04:02):
and it's stopped, used and maintained by people in the neighborhood.
And they coordinate by every means. They've got WhatsApp groups,
Slack groups, conference calls, printed paper signs, and forms. I
sat down with two l A Community fridge volunteers, Caitlin
and Leanna, to learn more. I'm curious for each of
(04:30):
you how you initially got involved in the community fridge project.
I think I remember in June I had some friends
contact me and asked me if I wanted to be
involved in this. They had seen the New York group
in our Hearts their community fridge efforts and been like,
you know, we should do this here. L A is
(04:51):
so dense with people. This is something we definitely need.
And I had never really heard of community fridges before,
but I was like, okay, I've got time. I'm in Like,
this seems like something that's relatively easy to do and
it's you know, it's going to benefit so many people. Yeah,
So it's very hyperlocal and community driven. UM I had
(05:14):
mentioned that, like when I came into the community, I
was already kind of looking into restaurants. But people kind
of come to us at any stage. Some people come
to us after they've already set up a fridge, and
they've already picked a host, and they've already used all
the resources um that have been built and taken it
upon themselves to do all these things and get things
set up. But I think that's kind of one of
(05:34):
the main goals is to give everyone the resources they
need so they can do whatever they're able to do.
So if they want to hop in and they want
to find a host, and that's kind of like the
amount that they're willing to put in, that's totally fine.
And then as far as who's stalking them, we try
to encourage folks whenever they start a fridge to get
like a cohort of people who kind of agree to
(05:54):
go by the fridge at least every day to clean it,
to keep an eye on it, to keep it stocked.
And I feel like after the ball gets rolling with
it and the community really adopts it, it kind of
runs on its own. To a certain extent, of course,
like things need to be cleaned and everything. But we
have a slack behind the scenes where we're able to
keep in touch with each other and kind of let
each other know, like someone just reported that the fridge
(06:16):
really dirty. Can someone go hop over there and take
a look at it. Take me through that very elementary
step of getting one of these fridges going. We do
have a lot of resources on our link tree um
about how to find potential hosts. I think we did
make a fridge checklist, like, oh, you want to start
your own fridge, to make it very easy for people,
(06:37):
because that is ultimately the goal is like we're not
trying to do everything and oversee every fridge in l A.
It's like anyone can do this. It's definitely a collective effort.
One of the common questions is like, well, how much
is electricity costs? It costs about thirty bucks a month,
and most of the hosts, I think all of our
hosts are like paying that, you know, on their own.
(07:00):
Most of them are like markets and restaurants. There are
some anomalies they're the community centers and things like that.
Are these all the same community? Are they distinct populations?
What is the community around the community fridge look like,
the goal is for it to be kind of like
all things to all people, right, is for all of
us to be able to use it, and especially to
(07:22):
get even more hyper focused from the word community like
neighborhood based. Um, so what does that neighborhood need? Like
an unhoused person can't really use uncooked rice, but a
small family might be able to use uncooked rice, And
like what is the community of people that that fridge
is serving? And how can we best serve those people? Yeah,
the people who are in the slack, who are updating
(07:42):
and stuff. There's like different channels for each fridge and
we keep each other updated, like, oh, you know, vegetables
aren't really moving at this fridge will redistribute it somewhere else,
or people will put a food prep it. So it's
you know, more of a grab and go kind of meal,
but it's you know, it's definitely a learning herb. And
I think another thing is when someone gets something done,
(08:03):
they bring it to the group. We have a weekly
meeting every Monday, and so you're kind of like, hey,
I made this thing, what do you all think about it?
How can you be better? What didn't I think of?
It's just like what Leanna said, like you kind of
just skip ahead and do the thing if you think
people need it, and then be very willing and open
to accept feedback um to make it the most usable
for the most people. I'd love you to explain more
(08:24):
of this term mutual aid as the model that you
are using to delivered a service as opposed to operating
a formal charity. What's the difference and why have you
chosen to model yours on this design of mutual aid? UM. Well,
one of the things I think is actually kind of
connected to hierarchy. Typically with charities, you have people with
(08:47):
more money giving money to people who don't have the money,
and so they're sort of controlling what they think other
people want or making decisions for what they think other
people want, and so that hierarchy and power it just
never quite feels right. It doesn't quite feel like you're
really servicing people and helping people in the way that
(09:08):
they need. So one thing about the mutual aid the
way that that's organized is the lack of hierarchy really
helps with that. It kind of um empowers you to
take on the thing that you think needs to be
done and to best service the folks who you're trying
to help. I think another distinction too, is that we
don't collect any money. And I mean this is like
a fridge specific thing, but like the food is the currency,
(09:31):
Like that is the thing that we're trying to empower
folks with. So we actually try to like actively avoid
anyone giving us any money because then it just becomes
a different project. I think that just becomes a different
type of organizations. So whenever folks want to help or
like go get food and put it in a fridge,
that's the best way that you can possibly help with
the fridges. Or sometimes well default to not asking for
(09:52):
many in other ways. For example, if we need some
one to help with maintenance with the fridges, we don't say, like, hey,
can you give us money we need to repair some fridges.
We say, hey, do you know how to repair a fridge,
and we get a bunch of folks in and they
can help us with that. You cut out the middle
party in this case money money exactly as the medium. Yeah,
things done a lot more quickly. Yeah. Yeah, I knew
(10:13):
money was the problem. I know it. I knew it
the whole day. There's been some criticism of this model
from people in the food justice community who see these
fridges as not sustainable or as not truly meeting the
needs of the people who are pulling from the fridge
in the same way, and they read it still as
a charitable model of those with more time or more resources,
(10:35):
maybe more access to slack delivering unto people who don't.
How do you respond to that criticism or other criticism
you've received of your approach. It's not only people who
are on Slack, and I do think that there is
a big need and they are feeding a lot of people.
There's a fridge that's set up pretty close to me,
and I was talking to one of the people who
(10:56):
lives at the place that's hosting it, and you was
saying that some cleaning ladies on their way to work
will like deep clean the fridge like once or twice
a week with their supplies and stuff. And it's like
they obviously are not slack, they're on Instagram, they're probably
not like in tune, but it's like they're on the
ground and they see it in front of them and
they want to care and help be you know, other
(11:19):
members of their community. So those are the people who
are also leaving food, but maybe taking something that they need.
You know, it's give and take, and I think it
definitely benefits everyone. And I want to see a lot
of these fridges around because there's so much food, so
much food waste, and everyone needs to see. What has
(11:39):
surprised each of you as you've become a part of
this effort. One of the things that I found really surprising,
I don't know if surprising is the right word, but exciting. Um.
Whenever we had first started the East Hollywood Bridge in
July was the first few days, what you saw was
a lot of people taking a lot of things because
they're used to living in this scarcity mentality. I mean,
(12:01):
if you I think we all, we all sort of
had this happen to us at the beginning of the pandemic,
where you went to the grocery store and you're like,
I guess we're never eating beans ever again. Like you're
just like, I guess there's just no more beans in
the world. So of course, as soon as they get beans,
like you take way more than you need because you
don't know when they're going to have that thing again,
you know. Um. And so what was really exciting was
after that first week of constantly, really adamantly refilling the fridge.
(12:25):
It just sort of like created a flow in a
system to where you didn't see as many people like
rabbing so many things because they trusted that something was
going to be there the next day. So I wouldn't
say that was surprising, but it was like very interesting
and memorable connection to make it my own head, especially
at the time of COVID when we were all kind
of like experiencing that in different ways. So just this
understanding that, you know, people take more than they need
(12:48):
when they don't know how long they're going to have
to need it, you know. I think something that's been
surprising for me is just how many nice and sweet
people live all over lay, Like whether it's people who
help with the fridges or people who use the fridges
and you run into. It's so nice to just meet
people and like have genuine conversations with people who care,
(13:10):
especially like in this weird time where you're only seeing
people's eyes everyone's wearing a mask. But yeah, I love
the just the little connections that you make and not
surprising me because that's not something I thought would come
along with this. How have you managed conflict in operating
this network of fridges, we have these common resources, these
(13:31):
documents that are like this is our value statement, and
this is how we choose a host, and we all
agree upon those documents. And so you sort of set
these guidelines up front and empower people to work within
those guidelines. And of course if you feel like there's
an issue with a certain guideline, then you bring it
to the meeting um. But I think that that kind
of helps move things along a little bit more quickly.
So you wrote a constitution and then strive to live
(13:54):
up to it in the same vein, how are you
dealing with local authorities who may have different ideas about
how to regulate these We've had a few fridges that
have had some of those issues. One a few of
them were cited by the city for health violations or
just the city code. To me, it seems like police
(14:14):
are just using anything to write it up. Because we
had a fridge in Compton and it got shut down
by authorities. They said it couldn't be out there. The
violation was like leaving machinery that's broken outside and obviously
it's like plugged in running there's food in it. And
then like they thought it and they ended up starting
(14:36):
the fridge back up again, but then somebody cut the
cord and it's like still sitting there empty. But since
it hasn't been running and sitting there empty, which actually
that is breaking you know, the code, they haven't been
written up at all. So it's to me it seems
like police are picking and choosing, or city you know
officials are picking and choosing. Um. But we have had
(14:57):
to remove a fridge because we don't want the businesses
that are hosting to get sided obviously. And then the
example that Leanna gave my understanding is that several different
city officials at different levels interacted with the fridge and
they all like didn't really speak to each other. So
it definitely seems like there's an inconsistency and kind of
like what the discrepancy is there? For sure? Um, But
(15:19):
obviously food health and safety is very critical, which is
why it is so critical to have a clean fridge
all the time and to take dirty stuff out of
it whenever you see dirty stuff in it. Um. And
I just think that that really just comes with frequency,
and I think the healthiest fridge is one where the
food doesn't stay in it for longer than six hours anyway,
which is kind of what the East Hollywood fridge is.
(15:40):
It's like nothing's there for if it's there today will
absolutely be gone tomorrow. What lessons would you share with
someone who wants to work in their neighborhood for mutual aid.
I feel like the biggest lesson that I've learned that
kind of does connect to this is like the more
people on hand, the more people who you have to help,
(16:01):
the more connections you make, the easier everything is. You
don't want a few people over working putting so much time.
Like if there's a lot of people, everything works more
smoothly and there's a lot more support for maintaining the
fridges and getting everything together. Yeah, I would agree with that,
I think likely. And I said, we have a ton
(16:23):
of resources that folks can use so they don't have
to start from scratch. And I believe that we adopted
some of those resources from New York as well. So
I think we're all kind of like learning as we
go and adapting as we go. But I think often
when we have people come into the group, solutions to
problems look like policing in a way, or like trying
to control a situation. It might be like, oh, people
(16:44):
are abusing the fridge after hours, we should lock the
fridge after hours. And so I think one thing I've learned,
just like as a human being is that how do
you provide resources so that folks can have what they need?
That's like literally what the whole fridge model is there for.
So we're always kind of instead of saying, like, how
do we cut this off? How do we make boundaries
(17:04):
around this? We're always trying to make it bigger. We're
always trying to help people with what they need. So
we've had conversations about frid Is being more than just
frid Is, about people perhaps bringing like clothes to donate
and things like that. So rather than just immediately cutting
it off and say okay, we don't accept close, saying like,
all right, how do we make clothes work. Let's give
this a shot. Let's put a clothing right there, Let's
see if people tend to it. Let's see how that works. UM.
(17:26):
So I think always defaulting what is the improv saying
like always defaulting to yet yes and right, It's like yes,
and it's a very like yes and community, um to
sort of get people what they need and see what
the right solution is because it's kind of breaking a
lot of rules to start, So like, why create more
rules when we could give people the things that they
say that they need the story of the local cleaning
(17:57):
ladies regularly cleaning the community fridge in their neighborhood on
the way to work, that struck a chord with me.
That's a sign of ownership. They see value in these
fridges and they feel invested enough to contribute with their
own time and skills. At the end of this episode
will share ways you can support or even start your
(18:18):
own community fridge. But right now, let's go to our
conversation with Chef Jose Andres. We are hungry. Can you
take me back to Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico. I
was inside the female headquarters, in the room where was
(18:41):
supposed to be, the room where he happens, where it
was supposed to be, deciding how many people were hungry,
who was going to do it? And after listening to
the powers to be almost for an hour, I realized
that was not planned. I realized that everybody was finger
(19:01):
pointing at somebody else or responsibilities. I realized that everybody
was trying and used to do it. Together. I realized
that many of these people, they didn't even move from
that big convention center. And if you are not moving
away from the convention center, how do you really know
(19:22):
what's happening across the island. And that moment I realized
we began already by then doing close to ten thousand
meals a day. We never said no to anybody that
asked for food. So that's where we went from ten
friends three days after the hurricane, a whole bunch of
chefs that they responded to my what's up saying I'm here,
(19:46):
and they I'm here meant I'm here, let's cook together.
We went from ten friends to more than twenty five
thousand men and women volunteers. Puto Ricans fed Puto Ricans.
We went from one kitchen to and the six. We
went from thousand mills the first day two hundred fifty
thousand meals a day, we did almost four million mills.
(20:09):
Even we did millions more because we were able to
give ideas to others about what to do. How does
World Central Kitchen operate and how different is that from
some of these other organizations you mentioned, the Red Cross
Female We are different because nothing is more powerful than
(20:30):
the local community. Why because nobody knows best what the
community needs. This mentality that the people coming from the
side and they are telling the locals what they need,
versus as shutting up and listening more to them what
they really need. This is used one of the main
(20:53):
difference that boll Centered Kitchen does. Obviously, in an emergency,
people are shocked and be a whore can come the earthquake,
a typhoon of fires, and yes, you need to come
from the outside and trying to create certain systems to
start in our case feeling, we don't plan, we don't meet,
(21:14):
We put boots on the ground and we start feeding.
In the process of feeding, what really we're doing is
gathering intelligence in the process of feeding. What really we know,
it's what's happening one community at the time. In the
process of feeding, locals began joining us. In the process
of feeding, we create an army of good. In the
(21:36):
process of feeding, we have information that other people sitting
down in the comfort of their headquarters don't have. And
at the end, that's what we do. We put boots
on the ground and we start providing food and water.
In the process, we increase until there is no more need.
In the process, we learned what other end us are doing.
(21:57):
If these others doing, we try to partner. If they
don't want a partner, that's fine. We keep seeing so
we don't leave anybody behind. And what we do better
than anybody is that we go to the forgotten places,
to the forgotten neighborhoods where sometimes police tells you don't
go there because it's too dangerous to go. And you
(22:18):
know where, I learned that those places that they are
too dangerous to go, you bring hope through food and water,
and you aren't playing with the kids basketball or you
end helping an elderly person moved to a more safe location.
And that those places that somehow they tell us they
are dangerous because it's used I don't know, a different
(22:39):
part of town. You learned that there is no danger.
That the only danger we face is not knowing people
that live in our own cities and our own communities
and not listening to their needs. Have you ever felt
overwhelmed by the size of the help needed, and if so,
(22:59):
how did you work through that. Does the stress of
a restaurant kitchen help you work through the stress of
an overwhelming public need in the face of disaster. I
think the moment that for me was crazy is when
I saw the images of Katrina and especially on the Superdome.
And this is something like I've been playing in my head.
(23:20):
I wish I could go back in time, be there
right before Katrina heat. Not like we want to go
through and try to do more good to the people
that suffer in an unnecessary way by not being ready
for them. What happened in the Superdome alone was never
supposed to happen many Americans alone in a stadium with
(23:41):
no food, no water, no basics, sanitation in mind. If
we were there a group of cooks. You know what
a stadium means. You know what an arena is? An arena?
People have it wrong. It's not a music venue. It's
not a sports venue. It's a gigantic restaurant that entertains
with the sports and musician. I just gotta that's a
very uh, chef centric view of arena. I love it.
(24:05):
And at the end of the day, if we were
able to do that, to put all the foot vendors
up there, up and running the food spots, I bring
few of my friend chefs. We got some of the
volunteers there and we start organizing used by feeling people
and bringing them water and hope, and then we bring
everything else. But you see the big problems. They have
(24:26):
very simple solution. Can you talk briefly about like what
food is to you in terms of its connection to security,
it's connection to community. Um, why is food special? Well,
food is especial because we are highly attached to our mothers.
And in a way, one of the things that creates
(24:47):
this amazing bond beyond that she's been carrying all of
us for nine months, is that within hours of being
born our mother, our father, they're feeling us immediate And
this is a link that for ever, it's not forgotten,
even if we were highly unaware of the moment. If
I could go back one second in my life, I
(25:07):
we love to go and being a word the moment
my mother fed me. This makes food being this kind
of powerful way of saying. Food equals comfort, foot equals
somebody that loves you. Food equals home, foot equals family,
foot equals safety is beyond the physical need. So that's
(25:29):
why it's so important. We don't think deep enough about it,
but I do believe that link. I wish I could
prove the theory and maybe one day we can if
we can travel back to the past. And at the
end of the day you think about it. Unfortunately more
ways than one, boys like me, who are the ones
that are always giving praise or having the best restaurants
(25:52):
and feeding our cities and the most luxurious food. But
if you think for a second and you go around
the world and you stop and you go to Musambik
or Haiti or Peru or you know who, you know
who feeds the world. Women are who feeds the world,
not only because they feed us all the mothers when
(26:14):
we're born, but beyond that, who is really feeding the
world are always woman in every corner, in every street.
They're the ones feeling the people of the world. So
white food is important. Byetts around the French philosopher in
tell me what you eat, and I will tell you
who you are. Yes, food is who we are. And
(26:38):
he said another phrase that was even more important. He said,
the destiny of the nation will depend on how they
feed themselves. So food is essential for human life, but
is much deeper than that. Give us hope of a
better tomorrow, give us a sense of community, give a
sense of peace, give a sense that things are okay.
(27:01):
That's why we must defend the right of every child
in American around the world to have access the food
that empowers them to achieve every dream that a John
boy or girl can have. Can you share what you're
working on in terms of applying the World Central Kitchen
(27:21):
model to our COVID situation and in particular this bill
that you are working on with Senator Kamala Harris, which
is an escalation even further of your work in the
world beyond running restaurants. Back in the day, it's called
the featat and was to put restaurants upon working especially
family on a small restaurants to make sure that between
(27:44):
the federal government and years like ours and the local
governments the mayors are at the front lines, we will
be able to activate the restaurants to take care of
the local food needs, elderly homes, homeless, hospitals for responders
and who amazing the federal government through FEMA supports the
(28:07):
local needs one seri at the time through local businesses
where the restaurants are working, they can be paying salaries
to the people locals, no locals. Best they know where
they need is working in alliance with the local mayors,
feeding the communities in need. In the process, the money
(28:28):
goes into the economy. Restaurants can pay rent, people can
pay food for their children, and the rent at home
we can buy from local farmers. At the end, one
dollar is multiplied by four. This is smart and that's
what we've been trying to do. We have twenty restaurants
total across forty estates and at one point we were
(28:50):
doing three hundred fifty meals a day. We are ready
in the north of thirty million mills through this pandemic.
And what we did was obvious at the very beginning.
Many Enginos, many of them run by elderly people. They
had to be home because that was the safe thing
to do. So many engeos kind of shut down business
(29:11):
at the early stages of this pandemic. Many hospitals they
had function in restaurants because while they built the hospitals
in the wrong way and the kitchens were in the
middle of the wrong place, or people didn't come to
work well because public transportation ended well because people were
getting sick, so wasn't our kitchen. First thing we did
(29:31):
was the start covering those needs. We've done hundreds of
hospitals across America. We did all the hospitals in Manhattan,
in Bronz, in Harlem, in Queens. We began going to
the very forgotten communities, a lot of Black communities, a
lot of Latino communities. We began feeding elderly care centers.
(29:51):
That's what we began doing, use covering the black holes
of the system. And I'm very proud we did it
because was necessary and we were able to apply our
experience to tell Congress, we're showing you what has to
be done. We are showing you what we should be doing.
(30:12):
We reached through to opeds New York Times and watching
them post. We told the White House, if I was you,
this is why I we'll do. With all Congress, if
we were you, this is what we will do. We're
testing that we're already doing it. Support us to keep
doing this work beyond what we are already doing. And
so far, let's hope this bill will pass, but there's
(30:33):
many other things that have to happen to fit America
can be done. It's political will. If Americans go hungry
in the weeks and months to come, it's because we
had a political way to stop it. We cannot stop tomorrow.
The pandemic, but we can stop tomorrow hunger in America.
If you were to define the words citizen, not as
(30:56):
a legal status, but as a verb, how would you
define it? You know, citizen, I would say, is used
to provide for the people you don't know, the same
you're trying to provide for your own. That should be
the true million of citizenship. If you only think about
your own, it's okay, so okay, you take care of
(31:18):
your own, but you will never protect your children, your
family if you are not hoping to work hard to
provide for others the same you're aiming for your own. Hey,
I'm from Spain. I know about castles. Somebody that tells
you that by putting your family inside for wolves, your
family is gonna be safer. I like guns, you know
(31:40):
I should sometimes when I'm in a Spain or here,
nothing wrong, I love it. But if you think like
putting people in four wolves and you just gonna that's
the way you're gonna be protecting your family. Look at
the Spain, we had castles and we were in beaded anyway,
what is really going to be providing you comfort and
safety are not higher walls but actually no walls along
(32:04):
their tables. Make sure you share the wealth of what
you're trying to get on your own with others, and
you'll be safer than you've ever dream of being. So
that's why we describe it. One must be good for
you must be good for others. It's not either person,
but with the people. I want to give some space
(32:34):
to our live audience. We have a question from Kathleen.
So this is an incredibly difficult time for human beings
to do what we normally do, which is to come
together physically, and it's something that is missing in all
of our lives. So when we talk about for those
of us who may be in a vulnerable population, or
(32:57):
taking care of children, taking care of elderly kinds of
things that we can do to help the organizations that
you're talking about who do provide support to the food challenge.
We have a program here in Portland, Oregon called Blanchet House,
so I've been getting people together to make sandwiches for them.
I feel like there has to be more that we
(33:18):
can do. So on your website, do you have a
list of all of the organizations and restaurants so that
we can expand our knowledge and our support even further,
because sometimes the only thing that we can do is
get together a coalition of people and make sandwiches and
take them to Blanchet House. So even more specific things
(33:41):
that we can do in our isolation to help other
than write a check. Yeah, I mean the complication of
asking everybody to do food and deliver. Obviously everybody can
do that, and I think this is great, but also
we need to be careful. I remember in the early
days of the pandemic that allot of random people were
bringing food to hospital. Actually that was not the best
(34:03):
for the hospitals because they already were going through hardships
and to have to be handling people that in good
will they were trying to bring food every day was
creating some mayhem in some hospitals. As you may understand.
That's way for us to organize it in a systemic
way that everybody knows at what hour you're delivering, to
whom you're delivering, and you bring chaos out of the equation.
(34:27):
And this is very important. But one of the things
that I want to mention that I'm very proud of
the early days wasn't the kitchen went to Yokohama to
feed princess cruise ship six thousand Americans, many Americans, six
thousand people, eighteen thousand meals a day in Yokohama. From
there we moved to Auckland to feed also another princess
(34:50):
cruise ship. That were the two big cruise ships that
got copied and from Japan. We already realized even we
were following what was happening in China. I was learning
about how the restaurants in China were handling, how the
food systems were happening. Where Chinese people in the middle
of Bohan running out of food, how are the distribution.
(35:11):
So I began pulling a lot of thinking in that.
So by beginning of March, we got what we called
the Food Safety for COVID nineteenth and we created a
little puppet called MASKI Mask M A. S k Y,
which is this guy with this big mask that he
began telling all of us how to behave, how to
(35:33):
behave in the restaurant, how to cook in the restaurant.
In a moment we didn't know how bad this virus boss.
To keep distance, to wear gloves, to sanitation washing hands,
to wear the mask, to even wear glasses, but also
how to deliver how to do take up, how to
keep people wearing in line outside the restaurants six feet aboy.
(35:53):
We did these circles in mid March that MASKI will
be telling you all the things everybody need to know.
And we did this across many of the places we
were delivering food every day. Probably we've been delivering food
I don't know in more than sixteen teams at one
point twenty thousand places a day, all across America. And
(36:15):
for me, I wanted to use that moment to keep
sending the message from early March about how we had
to behave to keep everybody safe. One of the things
I'm very proud is that of the restaurants we've been
having without we don't have to close one. We keep
everybody safe, everybody doing good, everybody healthy. This to me
(36:37):
was very important because in the early days I had
a lot of pressure on men will happen if something
happens to somebody, because I'm asking them to cook. Obviously,
everybody we have cooking in my restaurants or through Words
and Drag Kitchen. There are volunteers and they do it
with the heart. So the number one responsibility what you
can do is keep everybody safe. When you do this,
(36:57):
make sure you keep doing it, that we don't bring
our guard on. The pandemic is gonna go with still
for a few weeks, a few months. We need to
make sure that we don't bring our guard down. We
need to think that wearing a mask, or wearing gloves
or keeping distance shouldn't be because you are from one
political party on another. Should be because you are making
(37:17):
sure that you protect yourself but also you protect others
from you. This is what is to be a good citizen.
This is what is to be a good American. And
every American I know they don't want any bad to
happen to other people. So man, the only sacrifice we
have to do is work masks and word gloves and
keep distance versus soldiers men and women that they've gone
(37:39):
overseas and put their lives at risks, flying for freedom
of others and democracy and protecting America. Wow, this is
the all sacrifice I have to do to keep moving forward.
So this is important. This is one thing beyond feeling
that we all should be doing. To say, wearing a
mask shouldn't be political, keeping distance shouldn't be politics. Being
(38:00):
respectful to others should be what's a citizen means and
being an American means that we the people, we are
gonna look after each other. If on top of that,
you're able to be doing feedling, that's that's where I
go to Ward Central Kitchen. You'll see what we do.
But we are not the only organization. The banks of America,
the food banks through Feeding America, they've done a great job,
(38:22):
but they need to be funded by government. Right to
your Senator, right to your Congressman, and tell them why
are you not supporting with all the needs of every
single food bank across America. The school lunches, they should
be increased, not only to feed children, but also to
feed the family of the children's in need. Make sure
that every school becomes the heart, the Troy and horse
(38:45):
for good of the community. Right to your Senator and
to your congressmen and tell them support the school lunches initiatives.
Make sure that every etherly home is spaid in the
right way, protecting the people so we keep them in
safe heavens and we don't lose anymore elderly because the
curless leadership in the early days of this pandemic and
(39:05):
we let them alone is many ways we can keep helping.
One of them is keeping everybody safe and telling others
to keep everybody safe by doing the same you do.
And more important, keep righting to your senators and your
congressmen and tell them to feed an American in need.
Is not a Republican or a Democratic issue. It's an
American citizen issue. Fit everybody through this pandemic, and maybe
(39:30):
we'll move away from this pandemic. Is stronger, no weaker. Jose,
I cannot thank you enough for sharing of your extraordinarily
in demand time with us here and how the citizen
with Barraton Day you have modeled so well what it
means to citizens proving and living out which you've asked
(39:51):
us all to do that what's good for you, it's
good for us all. And thank you for living by
the words that you've just shared. Peace, love, Thank you,
thank you, thank you, Hello you, my friend. I've got
to cut in here just for you listener and let
(40:12):
you know what's about to happen. So we were in
the zoom, Jose was saying thank you and I love you,
and Tranquilo and the live audience is very excited to
have spent some time and got to ask some questions,
and I'm about to wrap this thing up. I'm about
to bring it home. And then Jose cuts back in.
(40:33):
I thought he was gone. I thought he was gone.
And he cuts back in and he starts kind of
pounding his fist on his chest. Uh in a in
a loving gesture. He's pounding his fist on his chest,
and he prepares to add one more thought to our
interview about what we can do in the age of coronavirus.
(40:59):
By any way, this is the way we should be saying. Hi, elbows,
no more elbows. Everybody cough in the elbow, and then
we're go giving elbows? Are we pricy? Are we pricy?
If this is a spreading? Are we spreading? And throw
our elbows? Never an elbow? Anymore elbows for coughing. You
(41:20):
do these and that's all the people need now, man
or or or what kind of forever in honor of
our already gone friends. But no more elbowing. And we
are getting America injured again. Everybody is having an elbow issue?
Are we pricing? And if you love a person a lot,
(41:42):
you do three, but never elbows again? Are we stupid?
We get too close with the elbow. Every time I elbow,
somebody's if this kissing me? No, Hans is fourther away. Sorry,
I had to man, no more elbows, are we not.
There's a there's a lot of things. There's a lot
(42:02):
of things I did not expect in and that just
became the number one thing I did not expect Jose
Andrews ranting against the elbow for amazing reasons. No, no, no,
do not apologize. That is only that. Okay, that's it, alright, armano, alright,
(42:25):
wakonda forever Yo. That was Jose Andre's chef, entrepreneur, humanitarian,
big citizen and defender of the realm of hygiene and
safety when it comes to interpersonal greetings. So wonderful. I
(42:47):
heard a lot there, and I just want to reflect
intuitively about it. We thought we knew why we wanted
jose to be a part of this show because he
has worked in a way that unlocks the capacity within
the communities that he's attempting to help and not just
distribute top down aid upon them. And that came through
(43:09):
glaringly to me just now that this is a well
thought out, compassionate and highly integrated system that's not just
either person but one that is run by, for and
with we the people. He said, nothing is more powerful
then local community. And the only real danger in those
(43:30):
dangerous communities is not knowing what they really need because
we're not listening, we're not asking those questions. Food waste
is a problem, but wasting people is a much bigger one.
And we have an opportunity to tap people to do
more to help each other out in this moment that
we're in. This idea that the meaning of citizen, to
(43:53):
Jose is that we essentially do for others as we
want done to ourselves, but that we give to there's
that which we demand for ourselves, and that we cannot
secure ourselves alone, just like we cannot citizen alone. What's
the point of being in a society? To build walls
and bear arms alone is not going to bring us safety.
(44:17):
Lower those walls and extend the table so that we
all might be nourished, so that we all might eat,
so that we all might feed on all the beauty
that food provides us, which isn't just the nutrition, it's
the love, it's the connection, it's the community, and that
will allow us to show up stronger literally in all
(44:39):
these other areas that we need strength for especially now,
hey you, it's me again and it's just us. And
whether it's Leanna and Caitlin from the l A Community
Fridges or Jose Andrace with the World Central Kitchen, we
(44:59):
know that the are other ways for us to feed
ourselves and take care of each other. If you see
examples in your own community or been a part of them,
please send an email two comments at how to citizen
dot com and just let us know what you think
in general about this episode. And now it's your turn
to do some actions. In each episode, we love sharing
(45:20):
things you can do internally and externally to strengthen your
citizen practice. I don't want you to get all tripped
up on memorizing what I'm saying here. One you can
always rewind, but we make this available visually at how
to citizen dot com or even closer wherever you're listening
to this podcast right now in the show notes of
(45:40):
that app. For this episode feeding Ourselves our Way, Here
are three things you can do now. The first is internal.
It's kind of a journaling exercise. You can think it
out loud to yourself. You can send yourself an email
or voice memo. Or right, longhand, but we want you
to explore your relationship with different types of assistance, mutual
(46:04):
aid versus charitable aid. And I want you to think
about how comfortable you are in asking for help when
you're in need. Think about a time when someone tried
to help you with really good intentions, but they missed
the mark because they didn't listen. Think about these and
many other questions we have with more detail again in
(46:26):
the show notes or how to citizen dot com. But
I want you to get personal about your relationship with help,
both giving it and receiving it, and whether you notice
the difference when that help is mutual versus top down.
All right, so that's number one. Number two external action,
I want you to look into whether your community could
(46:47):
benefit from a community fridge or some other mutual aid project,
depending on what the actual needs are. I'm not gonna
say everybody needs a fridge, because maybe everybody doesn't, but
every commune to t needs something. So we've posted some
guides in the show notes and on how the citizen
dot com. But see if this is something that you
(47:08):
can start up or even better join, join, even typing
in to your favorite search engine. Mutual aid and insert
the name of your city or neighborhood. You may find
something you can be a part of. So that's number two,
number three, And finally, lend your voice to ensuring that
the Feed Act becomes law in the United States. This
(47:33):
is the piece of legislation in Jose Andres has been
advocating for and spoke about with US. It allows FEMA
to use already allocated disaster relief funds to feed people.
It allows for local, state, and tribal governments to form
contracts with local restaurants and nonprofits and small businesses to
(47:54):
make and distribute healthy meals. And it's bipartism. And how
often can we say that? In these times? There's a
House version and a Senate version and they're stalled. They
were part of a larger package. That package has been
held up for too many reasons for me to get into.
What I want you to do is call and have
this thing happen. There's a phone number two O two
(48:17):
two to four, three one to one. That's the general switchboard.
If you already know your REPS number, good for you.
If you don't check the show notes, we have resources
to help you make your first call to Congress, say
your name, be polite, be direct, be respectful, and let's
feed this country with the money and the food flowing
(48:41):
through local businesses and local restaurants who are actually on
the ground. If you take any of these actions reflecting
on mutual aid, creating or joining a mutual aid effort
in your community, calling Congress to demand passage of the
Feed Act, let us know about that. Send an email
to action. How does citizen dot com include feeding ourselves
(49:03):
in the subject line? And if you're feeling real excited,
you can share some of this on social media to
just use the hashtag how to citizen and we will
lift up as many of those as we can through
my accounts. If you liked what you've heard here and
what you've been hearing in this series so far, please
leave a review in your podcast app of choice, give
(49:24):
us the good rating if you're feeling that good about
the show, and stay connected by signing up for my newsletter.
At barrattune Day dot com, I announced the upcoming shows.
I provide links to get you into those live tapings
so you can ask questions and share your thoughts too.
How does Citizen with Bartune Day as a production of
(49:45):
I Heart Radio podcast executive produced by Miles Gray, Nick Stump,
Elizabeth Stewart, and Barrattune Day Thurston, Produced by Joel Smith
and edited by Justine Smith. Powered by you s
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