178. Future Fantasy, Real-World Resilience with Randee Dawn

Episode Transcript
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BETH BARANY (00:00):
Hi everyone.
Welcome to How To Write theFuture Podcast.
I'm your host, Beth Barany.
I am an award-winning sciencefiction and fantasy author and a
creativity coach, editor,podcaster, obviously, and
filmmaker.
And I love interviewing peopleabout their take on.
How we can write the future,because I believe with our
creativity as creative writersand creatives in the world and

(00:23):
creative thinkers, we canactually reshape what does it
mean to be human?
We can revision.
That's fiction is great forthat.
So I'm really excited to bringin a guest today.
Randee Dawn, welcome, Randee.
so glad that you're here.

RANDEE DAWN (00:39):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm delighted to be here.
If you could tell us a littlebit about who you are and then
we will dive into the questions.
Yeah, no problem.
So I am an entertainmentjournalist, uh, but I'm also an
author.
Obviously I write for outletslike Variety in the LA Times
and, the Today Show website.
But I now have three books outwith the fourth one coming out

(01:00):
in March, and my most recentbook is called Leave No Trace.
Which is a blend.
It's mostly fantasy, but it doesblend sort of a futuristic
sci-fi because we have a wargoing on between humans and
Faye.
And that sort of precipitatedneeding to come up with
something that's a little more,you know, up to date than just
say, you know, sticks or, orspheres or magic or something

(01:22):
like that.
so yeah, that's, that's wherethese two have blend and that's,
it's, that one is out September23rd, which I imagine will be
out by the time this podcastairs.
And that is my most recent book.

yes.
And I, I see that you are, intotoday's media, but then also
writing material that, you know,science fiction and fantasy,
and.
I'm curious because I almosttook a journalism route.
I mean, I did do some journalismbefore I dug into fiction.
What is it about fiction writingthat really calls to you and now

(01:53):
I'm kind of have my coaching andeditor hat on because I think
it's so interesting, like youhave one foot in the daily world
with entertainment, but thenhere you need to have, it looks
like an outlet for yourimagination.
but.
Deeper than that.
I'm curious, what drives you to,to also write fiction in
addition to being a anentertainment journalist?

So for me, um, fiction was really always the
goal.
Like journalism was the how I'mgoing to actually get paid for
this thing.
Because I think even when I gotstarted early on, I was like, I
knew that fiction was not superremunerative.
and as I've got into it, Irealized that even more deeply.
But I wanted to write and Iwanted to get paid to write.

(02:33):
I really love.
Disappearing into worlds andcreating worlds.
And one of the neat things thatI, that I like to do with
journalism when I had theopportunity, which doesn't
always present itself.
Is I love the long forminterview.
So with journalism, they, youwould occasionally get a cover
story or you get to do aprofile, and I'm super nosy and
I love asking people all sortsof, you know, questions.

(02:55):
And then when you have severalthousand words to fashion a
profile, which I've had a coupleof times in my life.
It's not that you're making upfiction about them, but you're
sort of putting a fictionalizednarrative into reality.
Um, when this first came out inthe sixties, I believe it was
called New Journalism, and therewere authors like Gay Tellis who

(03:16):
were really pioneering thisnarrative.
And that was always really veryinteresting to me to really get
to know people and then.
Look for the metaphors thatpresented themselves and the,
interesting ways to shape theirlife into something that felt
almost like a story, but notwith, but without making up
anything.
Like you wanted to make surethat, that it actually was

(03:37):
really accurate and showed whothey were.
So that was always something Ireally loved.
But I had been writing fictionfor many, many years before that
and eventually got published.
It just took a long time to getpublished as an author.

That's so interesting.
And, and I mean, I was similarin that I always wanted to do
fiction, but journalism was kindof like the, an easier way,
easier entry point.
Yeah.
and also just, I wanna plug towriters listening to us that
sometimes journalism is a easierentry point to writing.
So take those opportunities ifthey're in front of you.
Uh, and keep writing fiction onthe side.

(04:11):
so moving into the themes oftoday.
can you talk to us a little bitabout how you see science
fiction and all speculativefiction, which includes fantasy
and all kinds of variations, howit can really help us explore
human resilience?
And I, I take it that's one ofyour themes, in your work.

you know, I think a lot of fiction can explore human
resilience.
I feel like with genre fiction,specifically science fiction,
fantasy, I do occasionally evenwrite a little bit of horror.
It just gives me a wider paletteto work with.
I am not personally a big fan ofjust straight up literary
fiction.
I love plot, I love character,and I just feel like the colors

(04:50):
are bolder and brighter andthere's more to work with when
I'm writing about sciencefiction and fantasy.
and then in terms of just beingable to explore the potential
that people have, I love beingable to pair them with- they're
like humans, but they're nothumans.
So a lot of my stories arecontemporary fantasy in which
humans are living or existingalongside, ma magical or

(05:12):
mythical creatures.
And that, that fires myimagination so that I can think
about what would it be like ifyou were immortal?
What would it be like if youwere a human who had become
immortal or you were dealingwith an immortal creature?
How they're gonna see the worlddifferent than you are?
And that really gets me going interms of thinking of just how we

(05:32):
approach the world, how we gointo the future, how we think
about, what humanity.
I think the thing is that I'mtrying to sort of make this up
on the fly, but basically Idon't, I don't think about this
necessarily like word for word,but I, I think that.
you know, sometimes we workbetter by looking into a mirror
and seeing something that isvery familiar.
And sometimes we work better bylooking into sort of a distorted

(05:54):
mirror and seeing things inthere that reflect back to us.
So I think that when I'm writingabout the things that make me
passionate in the first place,and then also when they are sort
of invented creatures.
I get a lot more out of it interms of how I wanna approach
the world and how I can see theworld and what the, what the op,
what the options are that areout there.

Yeah.
I really love what you just saidabout the, you can look at
yourself or reflection ofyourself, or you can look at a
distorted mirror, which, youknow, in your case could, is
your mythological magicalcreatures.
And, and I too, I write aboutmonsters, I write about, uh, I
also write about.
Evil.
'cause I'm, I also have ascience fiction mystery series,
but when I'm working on myfantasy, I'm, I have monsters.

(06:35):
And when I'm working, I alsohave a romantic paranormal,
romantic suspense series I'mworking on.
And there it is monstrousbehavior, but it's also for like
this, my humans are becomingGod-like, or have the potential
to be God-like.
And my villain wants to be likeGod essentially.
And so he wants to exploit theirpower.
So, um.

(06:57):
Then I'm dealing with timetravel, which is always such a
big thing.

yeah, definitely.
Definitely.
I mean, I think the other thingtoo is that we, you mentioned
monsters for example.
Right?
So that actually comes up inmultiple books that I've in,
that I've written because thedefinition of monster.
What does that actually mean?
And when we're looking at thereflection, we can see the
monstrous inside ourselves, notjust the ones that, we might be
encountering along the way.

(07:23):
And maybe the creature that isexternal to us is not the
monster at all and is just beendefined that way.
And I, I love exploring that thewe, the things we think our
monstrous may not actually be.

I'm with you on that.
I'm very much wanting to explorethat in a.
In my Henrietta, the DragonSlayer TV show material that I
eventually wanna create.
coming back to this notion ofhuman resilience, I was
wondering if you could touch alittle bit more on that in terms
of, is that a theme that you arefocused on, that you care about?
Are you thinking about, and morespecifically, is it like, how

(07:58):
will humans survive the nextdecade, 50 years?
A hundred years?
Like how do you think of humanresilience?

Uh, well, I think in my books in general, I like
to have them sort of presenttense, but I also like writing
about people who overcome notjust the obstacles that are
external, but the obstacles thatthey create for themselves.
Because we are, are the ones whohold up our own, um, our, you
know, our own progression in alot of ways.
I actually have a.
A magnet right over here on the,on the thing which says, get out

(08:28):
of your own way.
so we can sometimes be theobstacles that prevent us from
getting to the next step.
And so I love writing characterswho find creative ways to be
resilient to what comes upagainst them, and then also to
not maybe think outside the boxin terms of how they're going to
solve whatever problems theyhave with Leave No Trace.

(08:49):
I do have an unpublishedmanuscript that's sort of near
futurey, but Leave No Trace isreally the first thing I've
published that's kind of nearfuturey.
I wanted to imagine an idea thatif you picture that there's a
veil between worlds, between theFay world and the human world,
but what happens if that startsto disappear and we don't know
the reasons.
For example, this is all, thisis kind of background to the
book and you have magicalcreatures streaming over.

(09:13):
Well, I think it, it's a very,it's a fairly easy metaphor to
look at.
What happens when people whodon't live in one place try to
get to another place?
what, how humans react.
And they're like, no, don't,don't come here.
You can't, you don't belonghere.
So that's where this Faye versushuman world, comes from and
it's, uh, that's why I wanted toput a little bit in the future

(09:34):
to see what that would be likewhen the two go up against each
other.
Because in theory, you know,humans don't have magic.
So how do you actually fight aFaye?
Right?
Well.
in, if there's, if it isnecessary to do so, you are
gonna create new weapons.
So I started thinking about newweapons and how those might
affect a fe or affect somebodywho carries magic.
and that just took me into thisnear future where people are

(09:58):
afraid of strange things, whichis not all that futuristic.
We're always afraid of strangethings and then how we deal with
them.
And in the course of writingthis book.
the, the real world situationthat we live in has be, has
mirrored it a lot more than Iintended necessarily, but I like
this idea of what happens if.
People who aren't, who haven'ttraditionally been here, or

(10:19):
creatures who haven't been herenow are here, how do we cope
with that?
How do we live alongside them?
How do you accept, accept thethings that they are different
about, you know, the things thatthey may need that we don't need
or we do need?
That's, and when we talk aboutresilience, I think that can be
one of those things that youthen consider that you have to

(10:39):
be resilient about.
You don't have to, I alwaysthink of resilience as something
that you bounce off of or youovercome.
But I think that resilience canalso be just how you stretch
your own borders mentally,literally to accept the new and
the different, and taking this alittle bit into the future and
examining how that might work.

(10:59):
Was really interesting to me.
Uh, leave No Trace is astandalone book, but I do have
an idea for another one in theseries in which we go past where
the war is over and maybe theFay worlds have completely uh,
uh, you know, ceased to exist.
But we've managed to change ourown civilization while trying to
fight them off to the extentthat we've actually dialed

(11:19):
ourselves back in time in a way.
Not literally like your timetravel book, but more like.
We are now a different sort ofsociety than we had been.
So that's a book that I wouldlike to write and I haven't, I,
I don't have time at the moment,but we'll see how Leave no Trace
does.
And then I, I do see there to bemore in the story if possible.

I love that, uh, and what you were saying about
the borders and just, you know,stretching who we think we can
be.
I really love that.
so in terms of craft, how havesome, where are some of the
challenges that you've had incrafting a your story?
Leave No Trace and while keepingthe story grounded, in emotion.

the, the leave no trace is its own, is its own
huge story.
Just because I've been writing aversion of this story since like
middle school, I had this ideaof a young woman whose father
takes her off the grid andbecause he's scared about the
real world and they go in, theylive in the forest and she goes
up in the forest and there wasalways this sort of bigger than

(12:18):
life bear that was in theforest.
That in some way, uh, was, I wasboth a threat but also a
comfort.
And those are kind of the onlyelements that have still
remained right.
but.
So it's, that was one of the,coming up with the actual story
that I wanted to tell, and thenbeing, being comfortable enough
with showing it to people.
that was some of the biggestobstacles for me because I, one

(12:39):
of the reasons, I mean, maybe Ijust wasn't really good enough
and that's, I accept that, butfor many, many years I just was
afraid to show anybody my work.
So that whole phrase, get outtayour own way.
I was totally in my own way formany, many years because I
didn't understand how thisprocess was supposed to work as
an author.
so getting leave no trace tothis point, that was like the
biggest obstacle.

(13:00):
And then when I sat down and Iwas finally showing it to people
and getting reactions and seeingwhat worked and what didn't
work, it was about then findinga new way to, to tell the story
I wanted to tell that I'd beentrying to tell for so many
years, but also incorporate thechanges that needed to be made
and.
My friend lj, who is also anauthor, actually her quote is on
the front of the book.

(13:20):
she came over at one point andwe sat down and did like a, a
writer's brainstorming weekendbecause there was the middle
part of the book, which isusually the hardest part of the
book.
The beginning and the ending got'em.
Middle part of the book is thehardest part where you gotta
start joining stuff together,and there was some parts of it
that simply weren't gelling andI had to rethink.
It was kind of like when youhave all the furniture in your

(13:42):
house, but you have to find theright place to put everything.
And it was like, okay, I know Iwant the cave to be important,
but it's not working as it is,so let's move it over here into
this corner and let's use it ina different way.
Let's turn it into a portal inthe back or something like that.
So that was one of the other bigchallenges was just finding a
way to put all the furniture inthe right place.

(14:02):
And I went in places that Ihonestly had never gone before
and.
Surprised me completely.
But I think that's what happenswhen you, when you poke the muse
in your head enough to say, allright, you gotta gimme something
better.
we gotta, we gotta amp this up.
Don't just, don't just hand mestuff you maybe have seen
structured some way before, ortold some way before.
let's work with what we had totell a different kind of

(14:23):
stories.
So those were kind of the bigobstacles for me.

I really love that because you're, you're
demonstrating through yourstory, something I've seen time
and time again with otherwriters, myself included, where
the story is calling to you andyou need to do something more
than just the norm.
And it, and I think this iswhere creativity lies.
This is where our, our work as,as creative writers.

(14:47):
And I love that, that you had awriter's weekend and I think,
Every writer needs to have theirbuddies to help them do this.
Right.
Uh, and that's why I, I do whatI do too as a writing teacher
and a creativity coach, like weall work in community to
actually make our work better.
it's after a while the, there'sa limit to what we can conceive
of, but when people challengeour ideas and then we can start

(15:10):
to stretch.
So that's, that's wonderful.
That's a great example ofresilience right there.

One of the things that I find also shows up in the
work, but is also real in reallife, is the sheer energy that
you get from being around otherpeople.
You know, for me, one of thegreat things about a writer's
weekend is that you're justsitting, sitting there and both
doing the work in parallel.
It's like parallel play thatkids have.
there's just an energy that iscreated when everybody is
focusing, even if it's only ontheir own task.

(15:35):
And I love.
The idea that the group isstronger than the individual.
I mean, individuals bringspecialized things to the group,
but you can accomplish so muchmore when you have this group.
There's another book that Iwrote that came out in April
called The Only Song WorthSinging, and I, that there's
very much the sort of power offriendship as human magic, um,

(15:55):
that comes up in it.
And so I, I, I very much believeabout that.
that exists and that we have totrust in it to make ourselves
greater.
Um, there's plenty of storiesabout event inventors who went
into their garage and came outwith whatever new doodad was
important, but I don't thinkanybody really does any of this
all by themselves.

I am so with you on that, and I, I got chills when I
heard you say that about howfriendship is its own magic.
I, I think that's so powerful.
I wrote that kind of story Ididn't even realize in my
Henrietta, the Dragon Slayerbook one, and, and then the
whole series builds on that,which is that friendship.
And actually it was a reviewerwho said, wow, your, about how.

(16:34):
Important friendship is and moreimportant than she, she
realized.
So I just love that.
And I think that's a big part ofresilience as well, is being
able to, um, join together incommunity and allow each other
to influence each other.
Uh, because actuallyconversation like this on a
podcast and any conversation,we're actually co-creating
something.
and it's beautiful and it'sgreater than than us, and it's

(16:57):
also unknown.
We're walking into the unknown,which I think is a big important
part of being resilient.
I noticed that I, I think thisis a beautiful theme because
I've been, I'm about to embarkin a new adventure, a training
creative, writing professionals,helping other creative writers.
It's something I've been wantingto do for a really long time,
and I notice as you enter intobusiness, any kind of business,

(17:19):
you need to become more and morecomfortable with the fact that
you don't know.
As we embark on a new book, uh,any kind of entrepreneurial
endeavor, we need to becomfortable with, the unknown.
I wanted to circle back to, howyou, as an author make sure, I
mean, you're talking about howmaking sure your plot is
working, but how do you alsomake sure that the emotional
resonance of the story of thecharacters in their journey,

(17:41):
that it's alive, that it's thereon the page and it's, you know,
it's not all just world buildingand and plot.
How do you do that for yourself?

you know, it's, this is one of those things that
I don't have like a, um, a partwhat, like a number one, number
two, number three, like the, itjust kind of, this is where we
enter the, the woowoo area ofwriting for me at least, because
I know there e everybody sees orfeels their story that they're
writing differently.
I've got the movie going on inmy head.
I'm that kind of person.

(18:11):
So I'm sort of describing whatI'm seeing and as I'm reading
it, I things just kind of, they,they flow naturally together and
then when they stop flowingnaturally together, that's when
I have to stop and pause andtake back, take a step back and
think about, okay, did I go offin the wrong direction?
You know, am I trying to forcethe story at this point?
And the, the book that I'mworking on right now, which, um,

(18:34):
you know, might be out inanother year or so.
I've had this one section whereit's like, I know where I want
her to go and I know how I wanther to feel when she gets there,
but I've been stumbling over theprocess of how to get there.
So in terms of making this allfold together, I don't really
know how it works except, sosometimes you have to do it over
and over and over again, andsometimes you have to take a few

(18:55):
minutes back.
And think about a different wayof approaching it.
And I'm very much a person whoI'll lie back in bed at night
before I go to sleep, and I'llthink about, you know, what can
I do with these characters?
What am I not thinking about?
Can I bring somebody into theroom who hadn't, I hadn't
thought to and even include inthis scene yet?
You know, how do you open it upfor yourself?
So.

(19:16):
I don't know if that's exactlywhat you are hoping for, but,
that, that's what works for me.

Yeah.
Well, I'm really just wanting tohear your own process there.
You know, there is no one rightway, in my opinion, to write a
book.
And the fact that you arewilling to try it again and
again and again, I think is justso wonderful.
It opens up a lot ofpossibilities.
You're letting your, you'reletting, on the one hand, it
sounds like you're reallytrusting yourself.
You're like, it's not quiteright, and you're acknowledging

(19:42):
that.
And then on the other hand,you're like.
Let me figure out maybe this,maybe that, maybe this, maybe
that, and maybe you do rewritethe scene multiple times and I,
I think that's a greatdemonstration.
I mean, you're a working writer,you've got your journalism.
I also wanna share to ourlisteners, like, this is what
writing is.
Writing is actually rewriting.
Right.
That famous saying, someone saidwriting is rewriting.

(20:02):
And if you're willing tocontinue to rewrite your work
until you hit that, until youknow, the scene is wonderful.
And, and I kind of say it sings,right?
It's like harmonious.
Everything comes together.
The rhythm.
Yeah.
Oh right.
So it's, That willingness, thatwillingness to allow the process
to unfold and not to, not toturn away, not to think that it,

(20:24):
it doesn't mean that you're nota writer.
It just means you haven'tfigured it out yet.
And so you're just demonstratingthrough your own story how
you've, how you sit with yourprocess.
And I just think that's abeautiful thing.

And there's all sorts of other ways to that.
there's writing and then there'swriting, right?
Like I actually was at a, aconference, uh, over the weekend
and at some point we were doingthese, these flash five minute
quick reads to, writes to aprompt.
And somebody in the, in theaudience said, I don't think I
can write like that.
Like, I don't think you can justgimme a prompt and I'll just
start writing on the page.
And I, and I spoke up and Isaid, look, writing is sometimes

(20:56):
just staring out the window.
Thinking about the story.
So if that's all you can do inthe five minute period, that's
writing too.
and like you said, sometimesit's rewriting, sometimes it's
pre-writing, sometimes it's justgetting the, they're getting the
pieces together in your head.
So it's all part of writing.
And I think that's somethingpeople who don't do it
regularly, maybe don't thinkthat it is, that don't

(21:16):
understand that that's what itis.
I think they think that you havea story and you just start
writing and then you finish andyou do spell check and then it's
done.
Like that's, that's barely thebeginning at that point.

Totally, totally.
And, and this is something Inoticed, beginning writers don't
quite realize how much rewritinggoes into the work and how much
noodling, daydreaming, thinkingabout it when you're falling
asleep, thinking, talking itover with buddies or other
writers.
I have gotten my biggest, someof my biggest story insights,
talking to perfect strangers.
One time it was, it was at awriter's conference.

(21:48):
Other times it's been withpeople who aren't writers, but
hear me, describe the story.
And then they'll say, oh, butI'm not quite sure how to handle
X, Y, and Z.
And they'll, they'll saysomething cause they're far
away, you know, they're on faron the outside and it opens
something up for me.
Maybe they said something I usedirectly, but often it's
something, two or three stepsremoved, that opens it up.
And that kind of comes back tolike bringing other people's

(22:10):
eyes and attention onto our workthat allows it to be something
we couldn't do by ourselves.

Totally agree with that.
Totally agree with that.
I mean, it's just about flippingthings around and hearing other
people's take some things.
You might describe something andyou think you're being totally
clear and then they, they mirrorit back to you and it's like,
no, it's not what I said.
But I like that.
I could take that.

Can I take that?
Yeah, absolutely.
So as we, wrap up today, I waswondering if you had any behind
the scenes insights fromcreating your book Leave No
Trace and how it reflects thepossible futures that we might
face.

Like I was saying before, it's a near future
thing.
So you start thinking about theworld all the way through.
And I have little bits andpieces of technology that I
talked about.
some of our characters are thesemusicians who are trying to
escape the paparazzi, but Iwanted to describe what it might
be like to be.
A famous person in basically asurveillance state, because I
had this idea that you couldhave integrated contact lenses

(23:04):
where you might be able to film,and you don't even have to move
from where you're sitting.
Uh, you don't even have to showthat there's a camera going.
so I, I started to think of howthat might, how our world might
look like in this near future.
And it's not just about how dowe create a new weapon that
would take down, take down,magical creatures or something
like that.
It's about imagining the wholeworld being a few steps along

(23:28):
from where it is now.
And by doing that, you actuallycan look at your own world and
see, okay, how would, how, howcan this be different?
How might this change?
How can I be involved insupporting something that is
actually making that change?
So by, by writing somethingthat's near future or even far
future.
It starts to fire up yourimagination for the world that

(23:48):
you're living in, which I thinkis a really fun experience.
Yeah, that is so wonderful.
And I know that a lot offuturists, and foresight
practitioners do that.
It's such a great exercise, andI think any writer who's writing
about the future, the nearfuture, the far future.
And what could be, we are in anexercise, uh, just like those
foresight prac practitioners,we're just like putting a whole

(24:10):
story behind it, uh, and, andreally detailing one
possibility.
So I have one final question Ilike to throw at people, which
is, what does it mean for youhow to write the future?
I think it's a great privilege.
you know, what does it mean forme to write the future?
Like I, I'm sort of assumingthat I'm allowed to, you know,
it, it doesn't feel likesomething that somebody has to

(24:31):
show up to you and say, now youget to do it.
I just sort of decided that thisis what I wanted to do and I
just wrote the story that itneeded to be.
I think that there's notnecessarily a lot of overlap
between fantasy and, and sci-fifutures because we, we often put
fantasy into the past.
Uh, it always has to besurrounded by castles and quests

(24:52):
and knights and things.
But one of the things I loveabout writing contemporary
fantasy is that you don't haveto even write it when it says
contemporary.
It can be future fantasy, right?
it, there's a lot of sci-fi thatactually is fantasy and even if
sci-fi people don't wanna hearthat.
So, uh, I, it just, it's just aprivilege for me and it, it has
helped me open my mind in a lotof ways and just see stories in,

(25:13):
in, in a whole new way.
And I'm, like I say, I have a, Ihave a manuscript that's sort of
near a little bit further thanthis one, but a sort of a, an
advanced future that I wouldlove to get my hands back on
again because it's just a lot offun to, to picture things that
way.

Oh, that's so wonderful.
And, how can people find you,find your books and, get their
hands on on your wonderfulfiction?

So the best place is to go to my website, which is
randee dawn.com.
it's Randee with two E's.
So just be prepared for that.
So randee dawn.com.
Pretty much everything is onthere, but I'm also all over the
social medias as either youknow, Randee or author Randee
Dawn or Randee Dawn.
So that's where you can find me.
I, I got in early, so I havesome really good handles.

That's great.
That's so great.
Randee, thank you so much fortaking the time out of your busy
creative schedule and talking tous at How to Write the Future.
I really appreciate it.

It's my pleasure.
Thank you so much for having me.

Alright everyone, that's it for this week.
Write long and prosper.
And that's a wrap.
Woo hoo.
That's right.
Thank you.

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