May 15, 2023 • 18 mins
“Everybody can find a place to fit in there - the big thing is keep writing because we love to read.” - Ana Brazil
Writing is a very solitary activity, but relationships are what sells books. - Linda Ulleseit
In “Paper Lantern Writers, A Book Marketing Collective, Part 3” host Beth Barany, creativity coach, and science fiction and fantasy novelist chats with the founding members of the Paper Lantern Writers Collective — Ana Brazil, Edie Cay, and Linda Ulleseit — where they discuss their published anthology, the many ways they cross-promote their fiction, and their advice for being part of a collective.
Paper Lantern Writers
Many cultures around the world have a tradition of paper lanterns. A paper lantern amplifies and diffuses the light from a single flame, allowing the human eye to see further and more broadly in the dark. Paper Lantern Writers (PLW) aims to shine light on the shrouded stories of the past, giving modern readers a clearer perspective on the people and places that came before them. We promote the historical fiction writing of our members, both published and in progress, in order to better connect with readers and reviewers. By collaborating as a group, we build the individual careers of our members through marketing, social media, and events.
www.paperlanternwriters.com
Edie Cay
Edie Cay writes award-winning Regency romances. A LADY’S REVENGE (2020), THE BOXER AND THE BLACKSMITH (2021), A LADY’S FINDER (2022), and A VISCOUNT’S VENGEANCE (2023) focus on the history of women’s boxing and themes of misfits and found family. As a speaker, she has presented at Historical Novel Society, Regency Fiction Writers, History Quill, Chicago-North Spring Fling, Toronto Romance Writers conference, and the Historical Romance Retreat. She regularly contributes to the HNS quarterly journal. She is a member of HNS, The Regency Fiction Writers, ALLi, and a founding member of Paper Lantern Writers. Follow her on social media @authorEdieCay.
Linda Ulleseit
Linda Ulleseit was born and raised in Saratoga, California. She is a retired elementary school teacher with an MFA in writing from Lindenwood University and is a founding member of Paper Lantern Writers. She enjoys cooking, cross-stitching, reading, and spending time with her family. Linda writes historical fiction that tells the stories of unsung women in history.
Ana Brazil
Ana loves to write and read historical fiction about curious, ambitious, and totally bodacious women. Her historical mystery FANNY NEWCOMB & THE IRISH CHANNEL RIPPER won the IBPA Gold for Historical Fiction, and her short stories “Kate Chopin Tussles with a Novel Ending” and “Miss Evelyn Nesbit Presents” have appeared in crime fiction anthologies. Her short story "Trust No One" is included in the PLW's UNLOCKED anthology.
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Email: beth@bethbarany.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bethbarany/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
BETH BARANY (00:01):
Are you looking for a way to dig into your world
building for your story?
Then I recommend that you checkout my World Building Workbook
for Fiction Writers.
Now available.
It's at How To Write TheFuture.com.
Just head on over there.
Click, sign up.
Put your name and email, andthere you go.
That workbook will be deliveredto your inbox straightaway.
(00:24):
Hey everyone.
Welcome back to How to Write theFuture podcast.
The focus of this podcast andthe focus of my work is to
support writers to createpositive optimistic stories
because when we vision what ispossible we help make it so.
(00:44):
And part of that visioning islearning the tools of today that
help us become better writersfor tomorrow.
Part of becoming a better writeris also learning how to become a
better marketer of your fictionand of yourself as a novelist.
I also want to encourage you onbeing an innovator in the way
(01:08):
that you bring your stories outinto the world.
So join me on this three-partseries where I interview three
historical fiction authors whohave come together to create a
collective to market their work.
Welcome to the third part of ourinterview where we talk about
(01:29):
the tension between research andwriting, and also about the big
vision of this marketingcollective for these novelists.
If you haven't already, pleasedo go back and listen to parts
one and two, so you will be allcaught up for this third and
final part.
Enjoy.
Let's dig in.
(01:53):
/If you're gonna form acollective to market your
fiction, you need to have abigger scope.
And for you and for your group,what would you say is that
generally?
5 years, 10 years?
EDIE CAY (02:04):
I'd say at least 10.
BETH BARANY (02:06):
That's great.
EDIE CAY (02:07):
When we got our partnership agreement put
together, we did put in therethat there is the exit strategy,
but really what we put in thereis: what happens if one of us
dies?
That's the endgame that we aretalking about.
We are talking till death do uspart, which sounds a little more
dramatic.
Maybe it's because I'm theromance writer.
We now have a goal where wepublish something once a
(02:27):
quarter.
So we are doing not just ananthology.
Our anthology last year was ourfirst publication that where we
had people pay for it.
But prior to that we had beenmaking these free downloads from
our website, which are quitedelightful.
So now we're starting to expandon that by making this brand new
content.
(02:47):
Unlocked went splendidly.
We are currently at work for onethat will be out in November.
We don't have a title yet, sowe're still anticipating new
content published yearly.
We are looking at gift guidesfor the holidays.
That one went over really well.
We're looking at a couple ofother different free download
things that we can put out therefor people because it's not just
(03:10):
about selling books.
Our main motto is (03:10):
A rising tide lifts all boats.
And we think that about eachother, and we've made the
commitment to each other that todo this.
But we also think that aboutevery author out there because
readers don't just read oneauthor.
There's no reason to see eachother as head-to-head
competition.
And that was something thatalways felt wrong when I was in
(03:33):
the literary community wherethere was a bunch of jealousy
and a huge amount of ego, and Ihated that part.
BETH BARANY (03:40):
Mm-hmm.
EDIE CAY (03:40):
I just wanna tell some funky stories.
That's all I want.
BETH BARANY (03:44):
What you're talking about is really the core values
of your group.
I just love that so much, thatsense of rising tides lifts all
boats.
So the group together has putout some freebies that people
can still access on yourwebsite?
And a short story collectionwhich came out- was that just
recently?
EDIE CAY (04:05):
Last November.
BETH BARANY (04:06):
I saw some lovely commentary about it on Twitter,
about how every story wascaptivating and highly
recommended.
So just a shout out for all youhistorical fiction readers of
which I am one.
Just like you were saying, Edie,I read across I read everything.
I see it.
Let me put you in the spotlight,Linda.
Keep that up there.
LINDA ULLESEIT (04:26):
This is the book, Unlocked.
BETH BARANY (04:28):
Oh how pretty.
And just keep it there for amoment.
I just wanna describe it.
It's a beautiful image of akeyhole with a heart in the
center and a beautiful redbackground and Unlocked, a
script font.
And it's just gorgeous.
I see that book and I just wannahold it.
That's beautiful.
And how many pages is that?
LINDA ULLESEIT (04:49):
It is, I don't know.
It's not super thick, but it'seight short stories that spans
--how many--seven centuries?
BETH BARANY (04:56):
Oh, what fun.
LINDA ULLESEIT (04:57):
At the heart of it is a wooden chest that
appears in all the stories insome way.
BETH BARANY (05:02):
So, I heard gift guides are coming for the
future.
Quarterly published books thateveryone can purchase are coming
out.
And what are some of the biggerideas that you have coming?
If you could share about whatyour collective is doing to do
this beautiful thing ofcross-promoting and shining the
(05:23):
light on everybody.
LINDA ULLESEIT (05:23):
We also speak at conventions.
We have several talks that wehave already put together and
several that we're working on tospeak at conventions.
So we're always looking for newopportunities to speak at
writing conventions.
EDIE CAY (05:34):
Those talks are not just about us being a
collective, but we also talk ondifferent points of historical
fiction, the craft.
And we had a great one-- Ithought it was great anyway--
about setting.
And I thought that was afantastic talk because we
focused so much on historicalfiction, we try to keep it very
focused.
But I think historical fiction,because it is a world building
(05:56):
genre, just like sciencefiction, just like fantasy.
I think a lot of those lessonsare cross genre craft
discussions.
BETH BARANY (06:05):
Oh, that's wonderful.
I really love that.
LINDA ULLESEIT (06:07):
My first three books were a young adult
historical fantasy.
So I totally understand howbuilding worlds in the past can
be almost the same as buildingworlds in the future.
Because in the past you havecertain historical details that
you need to get right, and inthe future you have to create
believable societal things thathappen for people to be able to
(06:28):
relate to'em.
It's not like you can just makeeverything up because you still
have to have some grounding infacts that are real or
relationships that are real.
So in that respect, historicaland future are very similar.
BETH BARANY (06:39):
Yeah.
I love that.
And I would totally agree.
I have a guide that I createdrecently, world building guide,
and I know there's a ton ofmaterial out there for that.
So, one question that may comeup for our listeners is some
writers talk about getting lostin the research and, maybe
(06:59):
they're afraid, oh, I'm gonnajust go down a rabbit hole and
I'm gonna forget to write, ormaybe they love the research
more than they love the writing.
Any tips for writers out therewho are wrangling with that?
Each of you share one or twotips, how you balance the
research with the writing.
And how do you know maybe theresearch is done and then you
(07:21):
write, or maybe some of youresearch and write in tandem.
LINDA ULLESEIT (07:25):
I don't think the research is ever done.
I'll be writing a scene andhalfway through the scene, I
have to stop.
I'm like, wait.
I have to look that up and I'llgo look it up.
And then of course you have tolook it up after you're done
too.
This is after you've done monthsof research or to get your head
in the setting.
So I don't think the research isever done.
And I think that's a fun part,but it's also annoying because
the more things you uncover, themore questions you have.
BETH BARANY (07:47):
Right, And
LINDA ULLESEIT (07:48):
Well, that, doesn't help sometimes.
Like, no, you can't be doingthat.
I have you over there doingthat.
You know, so, it is difficult.
The book I'm writing right now,my current work in progress, I
have done a lot of research forit.
Then I went and found a diary ofone of the characters.
Cause they're real people I'mwriting about.
And I'm reading through herdiary going, no, no, no.
That's not how it was, causeI've already written that part
(08:09):
of the book.
BETH BARANY (08:10):
Rethinking.
LINDA ULLESEIT (08:11):
So, Rethinking.
BETH BARANY (08:12):
Good thing it has in the copyright page that's a
work of fiction.
But are you seriously having torejigger your story halfway
through?
LINDA ULLESEIT (08:22):
Yes, I had two of the main characters meeting a
good 20 years before theyactually did meet.
And so the problem I was runninginto is filling that timeframe
cuz it's, it's after that 20year period something important
happens and drives theirrelationship forward.
But like getting through that 20years was hard.
Well, let me do a littleresearch and find out what they
were actually doing during thattime.
(08:42):
Oh, they didn't know each otheryet.
So now do I start story later ordo I have their story start in
separate places and bringtogether?
Had to rethink that.
BETH BARANY (08:51):
Yeah.
And it sounds like you're usedto that since you are basing
your stories on real people.
Very interesting.
Taking it in stride.
It's great to hear.
Edie, how about you?
What are your tips for-- How doyou handle that balance or that
dance between the historicalresearch and the writing and
some of the-- Any advice youhave for other writers?
EDIE CAY (09:11):
Well, one of of my pet peeves is the collective ye
oldie history beliefs that arenever centered in an actual city
or town or culture.
And they have these beliefsabout how it must have been
because people from the past arebackwards and we today are
modern and progressive andforward.
(09:32):
And that is not necessarilytrue.
And so a lot of my research doescome down to understanding or
attempting, doing my bestanyway, to understand how
society's rules were, but alsohow people actually acted
because the rules and how peopleactually are are completely
(09:53):
different.
So, you can think about that interms of premarital sex.
You can think about that interms of diversity.
You can think about that interms of homosexuality.
All of these different things,gender presentation.
There's so many differentaspects that we believe that in
ye oldie times were notacceptable.
(10:15):
That never happened.
Those people couldn't be there.
And it's not true.
And so a lot of it is I spendtime reading about the area that
I'm researching from differentperspectives, often marginalized
perspectives, because they'regonna tell me a different story
than the mainstream perspective.
(10:37):
I wanna know all of it.
I wanna know about what theprostitutes were doing.
And how those rules might bedifferent because for me, I
write about Regency time period,which is the early 1800s.
For people who don't know, it'sabout 1800 to 1820, if you think
about that time period.
But the Victorians that cameafter that really changed how we
(10:58):
view the past and theywhitewashed the Regency because
it was a darn tooting good time.
So I work really hard to makesure that my modern readers are
able to see through their lensand through the Victorian fog of
what actually was happening.
(11:19):
I do use a lot of slang in minebecause I write about boxing.
Boxing is where a lot of our,even still modern slang comes
from.
So I try to put that in there,but also a couple of the other
terms that you can figure out ifyou think about it hard enough.
But I also have to glossary inthe back, just in case.
BETH BARANY (11:40):
Mm-hmm.
EDIE CAY (11:41):
So for me, I do a lot of upfront research.
I figure out my story.
I do have a lot of what Linda'ssaying where you're writing,
you're writing, you're writing,and you're like, what do they
call that?
Do they, did they call, is thata, would they say it's a
cupboard?
Would they say it's an armoire?
Would it be a wardrobe?
What would they say?
And so you have to go throughthis research.
(12:01):
For me personally, because I,that stops me up.
I put three asterisks onanything that's there, and then
I just keep on going becauseI'll figure that word out
eventually, or it'll come up inmy readings that I do during the
day from different historicalsocieties I'm a part of.
And then I can go in and Isearch for those three asterisks
(12:23):
at the end of a session when I'min my editing mode.
And then I can just go right toit and I can find'em and say,
oh, I need to double check thisfact.
Or, I currently am writing ashort story right now that's set
in 17 9 89 during the FrostFair.
And they went down to the BlackFryers Bridge.
Did they go down to Black FryersBridge?
Where is Black Fryers Bridge?
Three asterisks.
BETH BARANY (12:43):
Three asterisks there.
Yeah.
EDIE CAY (12:44):
Yeah.
BETH BARANY (12:44):
I love that.
It sounds like you do a bunch ofresearch that helps you settle
the story and then you come backfor the other things.
I do something similar, eventhough I'm writing about the
future.
So Anna, I wanna hear about yourprocess with this whole research
writing, research writing.
ANA BRAZIL (13:00):
It's very similar to Edie's, except I use angle
brackets.
So I can put the correctinformation here.
I do a lot of research up frontand then I do a lot of research
when I'm writing, but I have tobe careful because it makes me
want to kill more people--
BETH BARANY (13:16):
In the book.
In the book.
ANA BRAZIL (13:18):
In the book, in the book.
When you do research, it's likemaybe this guy should be the
victim, or maybe this is abetter villain or this is a
better suspect.
So I have to be careful, butresearch is continual for me.
But, but I would like to say, ifyou writer out there have a
problem with too much researchand you can't stop researching
(13:39):
in order to write, the bestthing to do is get a critique
group and get on the calendar toshare your work.
Because if you have a deadline,you're gonna have to stop
researching at some point.
And that means that you're gonnahave to have a chapter.
And in that chapter you couldhave three asterisks because
it's just for your critiquegroup consumption.
(14:01):
Having a critique group willkeep you writing, even though
the research is saying,"Comehere, come here, come here',
come here."
BETH BARANY (14:10):
I love it.
ANA BRAZIL (14:10):
I don't work with a critique group anymore because
I'm at the point where I wannahave the whole story cuz I don't
wanna hear other voices.
But if you're a beginning writerand do have that problem with,
can't walk away from yourresearch, get yourself a
different deadline.
And that will help get you awayfrom, or that will help you
manage the research, hopefully.
BETH BARANY (14:30):
Mm-hmm.
That's a great piece of advicefor anybody I would say who
wants feedback on their work.
I'm in a critique group still,but I also don't let them see
too much a work in progress.
Maybe the beginning and then Istop showing it to them until
the very end when it's all inone piece.
So, I love that.
Well, thank you so much forthat.
(14:51):
As we wrap up for today, whydon't we go around and see is
there any last pieces of advicethat anyone wants to give around
being a part of a collective tomarket their fiction, cuz that's
what brought us all heretogether today.
LINDA ULLESEIT (15:07):
Okay, well I'll start there.
Writing is a very solitaryactivity, but relationships are
what sells books.
And you can't get on anywhereand say, buy my book, buy my
book, buy my book.
It's the relationship, not thedemand to buy that sells the
books.
So whether you're on socialmedia, making relationships with
followers, or whether you're ina collective making
relationships with otherauthors, it's really important
(15:30):
to have that basis of therelationship, the interpersonal
connection, in order to sellyour books.
Get the word out there that yourbook exists.
BETH BARANY (15:38):
I couldn't agree more.
That's great.
Anybody else wanna add their 2cents?
EDIE CAY (15:43):
I would say that some of us are extroverts and we
don't mind coming on somethinglike this and chatting and
talking to everybody, talking tothe world, selling our books and
our collective, but there areothers who are not that
comfortable with that as writersbecause it is a solitary
endeavor.
And so being in a collectivemeans that you can take the
(16:03):
talents of the people who arenot comfortable being forward
facing, use those, and then thepeople who are comfortable being
out here discussing everything,then they have time to do that.
One of our members who I justwanna give a shout out to Mary
Christie.
She is the one who did thecover.
She does a lot of our graphicsand our cover art, and she did
(16:25):
the cover of Unlocked.
She hates doing this stuff.
She does not want to be forwardfacing, and that is okay because
she makes these brilliant coverdesigns and it makes everything
look professional and beautiful,and it affords us the
opportunity to come on and chatabout what we do.
BETH BARANY (16:43):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's great.
Yeah, absolutely.
Anna, you wanna take us home?
ANA BRAZIL (16:49):
I think everybody can find a place for their
talent.
BETH BARANY (16:52):
Yeah.
ANA BRAZIL (16:53):
if you start a collective, start it small.
And then grow wisely.
Everybody can find a place tofit in there.
And, again, the big thing iskeep writing because we love to
read.
So that's what we're all about.
BETH BARANY (17:09):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's why we're here.
So great.
Oh, thank you so much everyonefor sharing your experience and
wisdom about being a collectiveas a fiction writer.
I just love what you're up toand I think it's a great model
for others.
And I look forward to sharingabout your books and about your
collective in my podcast.
(17:29):
So everyone, write long andprosper.
LINDA ULLESEIT (17:33):
Thank you.
EDIE CAY (17:34):
Thank you.
ANA BRAZIL (17:35):
Thank you.
BETH BARANY (17:36):
Thank you so much, everyone for listening to my
podcast.
Your interest and feedback is soinspiring to me and helps me
know that I'm helping you insome small way.
So write long and prosper.
Are you stuck and overwhelmed byworld building?
Then check out my new WorldBuilding Workbook for Fiction
(17:58):
Writers.
Head over toHowToWriteTheFuture.com and sign
up for yours today.
Are you looking for a way to dig into your world
building for your story?
Then I recommend that you checkout my World Building Workbook
for Fiction Writers.
Now available.
It's at How To Write TheFuture.com.
Just head on over there.
Click, sign up.
Put your name and email, andthere you go.
That workbook will be deliveredto your inbox straightaway.
(00:24):
Hey everyone.
Welcome back to How to Write theFuture podcast.
The focus of this podcast andthe focus of my work is to
support writers to createpositive optimistic stories
because when we vision what ispossible we help make it so.
(00:44):
And part of that visioning islearning the tools of today that
help us become better writersfor tomorrow.
Part of becoming a better writeris also learning how to become a
better marketer of your fictionand of yourself as a novelist.
I also want to encourage you onbeing an innovator in the way
(01:08):
that you bring your stories outinto the world.
So join me on this three-partseries where I interview three
historical fiction authors whohave come together to create a
collective to market their work.
Welcome to the third part of ourinterview where we talk about
(01:29):
the tension between research andwriting, and also about the big
vision of this marketingcollective for these novelists.
If you haven't already, pleasedo go back and listen to parts
one and two, so you will be allcaught up for this third and
final part.
Enjoy.
Let's dig in.
(01:53):
/If you're gonna form acollective to market your
fiction, you need to have abigger scope.
And for you and for your group,what would you say is that
generally?
5 years, 10 years?
EDIE CAY (02:04):
I'd say at least 10.
BETH BARANY (02:06):
That's great.
EDIE CAY (02:07):
When we got our partnership agreement put
together, we did put in therethat there is the exit strategy,
but really what we put in thereis: what happens if one of us
dies?
That's the endgame that we aretalking about.
We are talking till death do uspart, which sounds a little more
dramatic.
Maybe it's because I'm theromance writer.
We now have a goal where wepublish something once a
(02:27):
quarter.
So we are doing not just ananthology.
Our anthology last year was ourfirst publication that where we
had people pay for it.
But prior to that we had beenmaking these free downloads from
our website, which are quitedelightful.
So now we're starting to expandon that by making this brand new
content.
(02:47):
Unlocked went splendidly.
We are currently at work for onethat will be out in November.
We don't have a title yet, sowe're still anticipating new
content published yearly.
We are looking at gift guidesfor the holidays.
That one went over really well.
We're looking at a couple ofother different free download
things that we can put out therefor people because it's not just
(03:10):
about selling books.
Our main motto is (03:10):
A rising tide lifts all boats.
And we think that about eachother, and we've made the
commitment to each other that todo this.
But we also think that aboutevery author out there because
readers don't just read oneauthor.
There's no reason to see eachother as head-to-head
competition.
And that was something thatalways felt wrong when I was in
(03:33):
the literary community wherethere was a bunch of jealousy
and a huge amount of ego, and Ihated that part.
BETH BARANY (03:40):
Mm-hmm.
EDIE CAY (03:40):
I just wanna tell some funky stories.
That's all I want.
BETH BARANY (03:44):
What you're talking about is really the core values
of your group.
I just love that so much, thatsense of rising tides lifts all
boats.
So the group together has putout some freebies that people
can still access on yourwebsite?
And a short story collectionwhich came out- was that just
recently?
EDIE CAY (04:05):
Last November.
BETH BARANY (04:06):
I saw some lovely commentary about it on Twitter,
about how every story wascaptivating and highly
recommended.
So just a shout out for all youhistorical fiction readers of
which I am one.
Just like you were saying, Edie,I read across I read everything.
I see it.
Let me put you in the spotlight,Linda.
Keep that up there.
LINDA ULLESEIT (04:26):
This is the book, Unlocked.
BETH BARANY (04:28):
Oh how pretty.
And just keep it there for amoment.
I just wanna describe it.
It's a beautiful image of akeyhole with a heart in the
center and a beautiful redbackground and Unlocked, a
script font.
And it's just gorgeous.
I see that book and I just wannahold it.
That's beautiful.
And how many pages is that?
LINDA ULLESEIT (04:49):
It is, I don't know.
It's not super thick, but it'seight short stories that spans
--how many--seven centuries?
BETH BARANY (04:56):
Oh, what fun.
LINDA ULLESEIT (04:57):
At the heart of it is a wooden chest that
appears in all the stories insome way.
BETH BARANY (05:02):
So, I heard gift guides are coming for the
future.
Quarterly published books thateveryone can purchase are coming
out.
And what are some of the biggerideas that you have coming?
If you could share about whatyour collective is doing to do
this beautiful thing ofcross-promoting and shining the
(05:23):
light on everybody.
LINDA ULLESEIT (05:23):
We also speak at conventions.
We have several talks that wehave already put together and
several that we're working on tospeak at conventions.
So we're always looking for newopportunities to speak at
writing conventions.
EDIE CAY (05:34):
Those talks are not just about us being a
collective, but we also talk ondifferent points of historical
fiction, the craft.
And we had a great one-- Ithought it was great anyway--
about setting.
And I thought that was afantastic talk because we
focused so much on historicalfiction, we try to keep it very
focused.
But I think historical fiction,because it is a world building
(05:56):
genre, just like sciencefiction, just like fantasy.
I think a lot of those lessonsare cross genre craft
discussions.
BETH BARANY (06:05):
Oh, that's wonderful.
I really love that.
LINDA ULLESEIT (06:07):
My first three books were a young adult
historical fantasy.
So I totally understand howbuilding worlds in the past can
be almost the same as buildingworlds in the future.
Because in the past you havecertain historical details that
you need to get right, and inthe future you have to create
believable societal things thathappen for people to be able to
(06:28):
relate to'em.
It's not like you can just makeeverything up because you still
have to have some grounding infacts that are real or
relationships that are real.
So in that respect, historicaland future are very similar.
BETH BARANY (06:39):
Yeah.
I love that.
And I would totally agree.
I have a guide that I createdrecently, world building guide,
and I know there's a ton ofmaterial out there for that.
So, one question that may comeup for our listeners is some
writers talk about getting lostin the research and, maybe
(06:59):
they're afraid, oh, I'm gonnajust go down a rabbit hole and
I'm gonna forget to write, ormaybe they love the research
more than they love the writing.
Any tips for writers out therewho are wrangling with that?
Each of you share one or twotips, how you balance the
research with the writing.
And how do you know maybe theresearch is done and then you
(07:21):
write, or maybe some of youresearch and write in tandem.
LINDA ULLESEIT (07:25):
I don't think the research is ever done.
I'll be writing a scene andhalfway through the scene, I
have to stop.
I'm like, wait.
I have to look that up and I'llgo look it up.
And then of course you have tolook it up after you're done
too.
This is after you've done monthsof research or to get your head
in the setting.
So I don't think the research isever done.
And I think that's a fun part,but it's also annoying because
the more things you uncover, themore questions you have.
BETH BARANY (07:47):
Right, And
LINDA ULLESEIT (07:48):
Well, that, doesn't help sometimes.
Like, no, you can't be doingthat.
I have you over there doingthat.
You know, so, it is difficult.
The book I'm writing right now,my current work in progress, I
have done a lot of research forit.
Then I went and found a diary ofone of the characters.
Cause they're real people I'mwriting about.
And I'm reading through herdiary going, no, no, no.
That's not how it was, causeI've already written that part
(08:09):
of the book.
BETH BARANY (08:10):
Rethinking.
LINDA ULLESEIT (08:11):
So, Rethinking.
BETH BARANY (08:12):
Good thing it has in the copyright page that's a
work of fiction.
But are you seriously having torejigger your story halfway
through?
LINDA ULLESEIT (08:22):
Yes, I had two of the main characters meeting a
good 20 years before theyactually did meet.
And so the problem I was runninginto is filling that timeframe
cuz it's, it's after that 20year period something important
happens and drives theirrelationship forward.
But like getting through that 20years was hard.
Well, let me do a littleresearch and find out what they
were actually doing during thattime.
(08:42):
Oh, they didn't know each otheryet.
So now do I start story later ordo I have their story start in
separate places and bringtogether?
Had to rethink that.
BETH BARANY (08:51):
Yeah.
And it sounds like you're usedto that since you are basing
your stories on real people.
Very interesting.
Taking it in stride.
It's great to hear.
Edie, how about you?
What are your tips for-- How doyou handle that balance or that
dance between the historicalresearch and the writing and
some of the-- Any advice youhave for other writers?
EDIE CAY (09:11):
Well, one of of my pet peeves is the collective ye
oldie history beliefs that arenever centered in an actual city
or town or culture.
And they have these beliefsabout how it must have been
because people from the past arebackwards and we today are
modern and progressive andforward.
(09:32):
And that is not necessarilytrue.
And so a lot of my research doescome down to understanding or
attempting, doing my bestanyway, to understand how
society's rules were, but alsohow people actually acted
because the rules and how peopleactually are are completely
(09:53):
different.
So, you can think about that interms of premarital sex.
You can think about that interms of diversity.
You can think about that interms of homosexuality.
All of these different things,gender presentation.
There's so many differentaspects that we believe that in
ye oldie times were notacceptable.
(10:15):
That never happened.
Those people couldn't be there.
And it's not true.
And so a lot of it is I spendtime reading about the area that
I'm researching from differentperspectives, often marginalized
perspectives, because they'regonna tell me a different story
than the mainstream perspective.
(10:37):
I wanna know all of it.
I wanna know about what theprostitutes were doing.
And how those rules might bedifferent because for me, I
write about Regency time period,which is the early 1800s.
For people who don't know, it'sabout 1800 to 1820, if you think
about that time period.
But the Victorians that cameafter that really changed how we
(10:58):
view the past and theywhitewashed the Regency because
it was a darn tooting good time.
So I work really hard to makesure that my modern readers are
able to see through their lensand through the Victorian fog of
what actually was happening.
(11:19):
I do use a lot of slang in minebecause I write about boxing.
Boxing is where a lot of our,even still modern slang comes
from.
So I try to put that in there,but also a couple of the other
terms that you can figure out ifyou think about it hard enough.
But I also have to glossary inthe back, just in case.
BETH BARANY (11:40):
Mm-hmm.
EDIE CAY (11:41):
So for me, I do a lot of upfront research.
I figure out my story.
I do have a lot of what Linda'ssaying where you're writing,
you're writing, you're writing,and you're like, what do they
call that?
Do they, did they call, is thata, would they say it's a
cupboard?
Would they say it's an armoire?
Would it be a wardrobe?
What would they say?
And so you have to go throughthis research.
(12:01):
For me personally, because I,that stops me up.
I put three asterisks onanything that's there, and then
I just keep on going becauseI'll figure that word out
eventually, or it'll come up inmy readings that I do during the
day from different historicalsocieties I'm a part of.
And then I can go in and Isearch for those three asterisks
(12:23):
at the end of a session when I'min my editing mode.
And then I can just go right toit and I can find'em and say,
oh, I need to double check thisfact.
Or, I currently am writing ashort story right now that's set
in 17 9 89 during the FrostFair.
And they went down to the BlackFryers Bridge.
Did they go down to Black FryersBridge?
Where is Black Fryers Bridge?
Three asterisks.
BETH BARANY (12:43):
Three asterisks there.
Yeah.
EDIE CAY (12:44):
Yeah.
BETH BARANY (12:44):
I love that.
It sounds like you do a bunch ofresearch that helps you settle
the story and then you come backfor the other things.
I do something similar, eventhough I'm writing about the
future.
So Anna, I wanna hear about yourprocess with this whole research
writing, research writing.
ANA BRAZIL (13:00):
It's very similar to Edie's, except I use angle
brackets.
So I can put the correctinformation here.
I do a lot of research up frontand then I do a lot of research
when I'm writing, but I have tobe careful because it makes me
want to kill more people--
BETH BARANY (13:16):
In the book.
In the book.
ANA BRAZIL (13:18):
In the book, in the book.
When you do research, it's likemaybe this guy should be the
victim, or maybe this is abetter villain or this is a
better suspect.
So I have to be careful, butresearch is continual for me.
But, but I would like to say, ifyou writer out there have a
problem with too much researchand you can't stop researching
(13:39):
in order to write, the bestthing to do is get a critique
group and get on the calendar toshare your work.
Because if you have a deadline,you're gonna have to stop
researching at some point.
And that means that you're gonnahave to have a chapter.
And in that chapter you couldhave three asterisks because
it's just for your critiquegroup consumption.
(14:01):
Having a critique group willkeep you writing, even though
the research is saying,"Comehere, come here, come here',
come here."
BETH BARANY (14:10):
I love it.
ANA BRAZIL (14:10):
I don't work with a critique group anymore because
I'm at the point where I wannahave the whole story cuz I don't
wanna hear other voices.
But if you're a beginning writerand do have that problem with,
can't walk away from yourresearch, get yourself a
different deadline.
And that will help get you awayfrom, or that will help you
manage the research, hopefully.
BETH BARANY (14:30):
Mm-hmm.
That's a great piece of advicefor anybody I would say who
wants feedback on their work.
I'm in a critique group still,but I also don't let them see
too much a work in progress.
Maybe the beginning and then Istop showing it to them until
the very end when it's all inone piece.
So, I love that.
Well, thank you so much forthat.
(14:51):
As we wrap up for today, whydon't we go around and see is
there any last pieces of advicethat anyone wants to give around
being a part of a collective tomarket their fiction, cuz that's
what brought us all heretogether today.
LINDA ULLESEIT (15:07):
Okay, well I'll start there.
Writing is a very solitaryactivity, but relationships are
what sells books.
And you can't get on anywhereand say, buy my book, buy my
book, buy my book.
It's the relationship, not thedemand to buy that sells the
books.
So whether you're on socialmedia, making relationships with
followers, or whether you're ina collective making
relationships with otherauthors, it's really important
(15:30):
to have that basis of therelationship, the interpersonal
connection, in order to sellyour books.
Get the word out there that yourbook exists.
BETH BARANY (15:38):
I couldn't agree more.
That's great.
Anybody else wanna add their 2cents?
EDIE CAY (15:43):
I would say that some of us are extroverts and we
don't mind coming on somethinglike this and chatting and
talking to everybody, talking tothe world, selling our books and
our collective, but there areothers who are not that
comfortable with that as writersbecause it is a solitary
endeavor.
And so being in a collectivemeans that you can take the
(16:03):
talents of the people who arenot comfortable being forward
facing, use those, and then thepeople who are comfortable being
out here discussing everything,then they have time to do that.
One of our members who I justwanna give a shout out to Mary
Christie.
She is the one who did thecover.
She does a lot of our graphicsand our cover art, and she did
(16:25):
the cover of Unlocked.
She hates doing this stuff.
She does not want to be forwardfacing, and that is okay because
she makes these brilliant coverdesigns and it makes everything
look professional and beautiful,and it affords us the
opportunity to come on and chatabout what we do.
BETH BARANY (16:43):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's great.
Yeah, absolutely.
Anna, you wanna take us home?
ANA BRAZIL (16:49):
I think everybody can find a place for their
talent.
BETH BARANY (16:52):
Yeah.
ANA BRAZIL (16:53):
if you start a collective, start it small.
And then grow wisely.
Everybody can find a place tofit in there.
And, again, the big thing iskeep writing because we love to
read.
So that's what we're all about.
BETH BARANY (17:09):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's why we're here.
So great.
Oh, thank you so much everyonefor sharing your experience and
wisdom about being a collectiveas a fiction writer.
I just love what you're up toand I think it's a great model
for others.
And I look forward to sharingabout your books and about your
collective in my podcast.
(17:29):
So everyone, write long andprosper.
LINDA ULLESEIT (17:33):
Thank you.
EDIE CAY (17:34):
Thank you.
ANA BRAZIL (17:35):
Thank you.
BETH BARANY (17:36):
Thank you so much, everyone for listening to my
podcast.
Your interest and feedback is soinspiring to me and helps me
know that I'm helping you insome small way.
So write long and prosper.
Are you stuck and overwhelmed byworld building?
Then check out my new WorldBuilding Workbook for Fiction
(17:58):
Writers.
Head over toHowToWriteTheFuture.com and sign
up for yours today.
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