Body, Mind, Trail: Lucja Leonard's Journey to 300 Miles

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Lucja Leonard's journey from forging sick notes to avoid PE class to completing a 300-mile ultramarathon across the Arizona desert reveals the transformative power of pushing beyond perceived limits. Just five days after finishing this monumental race, Lucja shares how she navigated extreme sleep deprivation, 90-degree heat, and those inevitable moments where every life decision is questioned.

The conversation dives deep into what pulls someone toward such extreme challenges. For Lucja, it's the extraordinary process of breaking down completely—reaching points of vulnerability and suffering—then rebuilding herself stronger than before. This cycle of breakdown and renewal has fundamentally changed her relationship with her body, transforming years of negative body image into profound respect for what her body can accomplish. "I am strong and fearless," she reflects, noting how ultra running has taught her that bodies of all shapes and sizes can perform incredible feats.

We explore the surprising parallel between ultrarunning and life itself—how both involve waves of struggle and recovery, both require asking for help, and both reveal our true character when pushed to extremes. Lucja shares beautiful moments of human connection on the trail, from strangers offering head torches to trail angels appearing with water when she and her pacer were desperately dehydrated miles from the next aid station.

As a coach who recently guided another runner through their first 300-miler, Lucja offers wisdom for anyone facing seemingly impossible challenges: "Just try. You don't know what you're capable of." Whether you're contemplating your first 5K or wrestling with life's biggest obstacles, this conversation illuminates how embracing challenge rather than avoiding discomfort can lead to profound personal transformation.

Connect with Lucja on Instagram @RunningDutchie or visit FindingGobi.com to learn about her upcoming speaking events where she appears with her husband Dion and their famous four-legged companion Gobi, whose remarkable story has inspired people worldwide.

Episode Transcript

Lisa Danylchuk (00:07):
Welcome back to the How We Can Heal podcast.
Today, I'm excited to welcomeLucja Leonard to the show.
Lucja Leonard is an ultrarunner, adventurer and
globetrotter.
She hasn't always been an ultraathlete.
She's gone from taking on thechallenge to run her first ultra
in 2013 to now running 100, 200, and even 300 mile races all

(00:27):
around the world.
She's a running coach and takesinspiration from helping others
to achieve the impossible.
Lucja and Dion, our last guestson the show, are married and
living with Gobi, whose storyhas become an inspiration for
people all around the world.
Today, we talk about her veryrecent 300-mile race, how ultra
running helped her build deepconfidence and a healthy

(00:50):
relationship to food and herbody, and how events like these
challenge us to ask for thespecific supports we need to get
through hard times.
Please join me in welcomingLucia Leonard to the show.
Join me in welcoming LucjaLeonard to the show Welcome,

(01:11):
Lucja Leonard.

Lucja Leonard (01:13):
Hi, thanks for having me.
Yeah, I'm excited to talk toyou.

Lisa Danylchuk (01:21):
And I'm really excited to talk to you because
you just finished somethingmonster.
You just completed a 300 milerace across the Arizona desert
and Mexico.
Right, how do you feel?
How's your body, How's yourmind?
How is?
Tell us about it.

Lucja Leonard (01:33):
Well, yeah, I mean, it's absolutely crazy when
you think about it.
It's like 300 miles.
I mean, who even does that?
It's just.
It just blows my mind.
You know, I can't even get myhead around the fact that I
finished.
I mean, it was like five daysago now that I finished and yeah
, I think today I'm finallyfeeling alert.

(01:54):
The last few days I've justbeen like in this brain fog of
like sleep deprivation and, yeah, sore legs, sore feet, just
yeah, all the aches and pains.
And yeah, today I finally feelhuman and it's kind of starting
to, yeah, sort of sink in that.
Oh, my God, you just did that.

Lisa Danylchuk (02:13):
You just did that and you look amazing.
I wouldn't know.
You don't look like you'resuffering, you know, like
there's no way.
I just I'm so amazed by thehuman body and by you and by
everyone who attempts even thesedistances, because they are
mind boggling.

Lucja Leonard (02:29):
Most people don't even want to drive 300 miles
Trying to tell people, like I'vetold a few people that I've
seen like oh yeah, I just ran300 miles.

Lisa Danylchuk (02:36):
They're like oh, wow, and it's like no, like 300
miles, like it's not.

Lucja Leonard (02:41):
Oh wow, like it's .
You can't even like, peoplecan't even comprehend it.
So they just kind of, yeah,ignore it, I think.

Lisa Danylchuk (02:50):
I have noticed myself since I started ultra
running and I've never done a300 mile race, but I have
noticed myself while drivinglooking at maybe an exit sign
and it's like, okay, you've gotyou know 30 more miles to your
destination and I'm maybe tired.
And I'm like, oh, that's likeanother 30 plus minutes on the
freeway and oh, I need to go tosleep.
And then I think I've run thatbefore, so I think I'll be all

(03:13):
right, I think I could drive itRight, I think I could stay
awake Um, obviously not pushingpast, like you know when we need
to sleep, but yeah, it's soamazing.
I think the question on a lotof non-runners minds is why,
like, why?
But let's, let's back up before.
Why ultra running at all?
Like, why this race?

(03:33):
What was it about it thatcalled you to it?

Lucja Leonard (03:37):
Well, I think the fact that it was 300 miles,
like I've done 200, I've done240.
And when they brought this raceout and it was 300, I was like
I've got to do it.
Like I've got to do it just tosay I've done 300 miles, which
is just stupid in itself.
But also, I really love Arizona.
We've spent quite a bit of timein Arizona and it was going

(03:58):
through Tucson, which is one ofour favorite places, and so,
yeah, it really called to mefrom that sense.
So, yeah, I'd signed up beforeI could even really think about
it properly.

Lisa Danylchuk (04:09):
If you think about it too much, you start to
go, oh no, why.
You know there's no real reasonI need to do this.
But if you follow that spark ofinspiration that's like, ooh, I
don't.
For me it was always I don'tknow if I can do that.
I want to try, like I'm notsure I can go that far, but hey,
sounds like fun and I think allof that's important.

(04:29):
You know and Deanna and Italked about this too that if
you don't want it then there'sno point right, if there's not
something in you that's goingOoh, this or that challenge and
for some of us, like you and I,it manifests on the trail
sometimes of you know, I'mspeaking in your voice.
Now I've done 240.
Ooh, what's the next benchmark?
Like if I've completed that,maybe something at some point in

(04:51):
my life I never thought I coulddo.
What else could I do?
Does it come up that way foryou?

Lucja Leonard (04:56):
Oh, absolutely.
And for me.
You know I grew up being ratherunfit, definitely not into
sports.
I used to forge sick notes frommy parents to get out of sports
class to go to being an ultrarunner and, yeah, just being
every time amazed at my bodybecause, you know, I've had,
like most women growing up inthe eighties and nineties, a lot

(05:19):
of body image issues and reallyhating my body to going to a
point where I am so proud of mybody and what it can accomplish.
I am strong and fearless and I'mable to do these things that
seem impossible.
And even in my head sometimesyou're like this is impossible,
but you're able to achieve it.
And just that sense ofaccomplishment and the

(05:41):
empowerment you get from fromdoing that, like I think that's
what keeps me going back formore, because you know, during
the race you're just like why amI out here?
This is ridiculous.
I should just book a holiday toBarbados and lay on the beach
like normal people do.
No, I'm out here in 90 degreeheat, like sleep deprived and

(06:01):
wishing I was somewhere else.
But there's something about itthat just yeah, really ticks
those boxes and has you comingback for more.
So it does.

Lisa Danylchuk (06:12):
It's so, it's so magical and mysterious in that
way.
Right, I did the Tahoe rimtrail, the 50 mile race, which
was a single loop.
I think now there's the doubleloop for the a hundred mile and
I'm like anyone who signs up forthat, just wow.
But my partner and I did the 50mile race and I remember being
up at the top of the ridgearound Lake Tahoe and looking

(06:32):
down at the lake and seeing thelights and people.
You know I'm like they'rewatching movies and eating
popcorn and getting ready forbed and why I'm out here, right.
But now when I go to Tahoe, Ilook up at that Ridge and I have
this thirst.
I'm like, ooh, I want to beback out there.
You know, maybe I'll sign up forthat race again.
And it's so interesting becauseit is hard, right.

(06:52):
There's no way around runningany amount of distance depending
on you know your genetics andyour training and all that like.
It's going to be challenging,it's going to.
There's going to be momentswhere you're like, why am I
doing this?
But then you know you finishthe 240 and you sign up for the
300.
So do you have a sense of whatthat is for you, that that
thirst or that connection orthat wanting to get back out

(07:14):
there?
I know it's five days out fromyour 300 mile race, so you might
not be really connected to thisfeeling right now, and that's
okay.

Lucja Leonard (07:21):
Yeah, well, I was thinking about it when I was
out there because, like beforethe race, I really I don't know,
I want to get to that point ofsuffering for some strange
reason, like getting to thatpoint where you're questioning
all your life's decisions as towhy you are now currently out
here in this situation, and Iwant to feel that pain.

(07:42):
I want to be broken down Like Iwant to be vulnerable.
And I want to feel that pain.
I want to be broken down like Iwant to be vulnerable and I
want to come into a checkpoint,absolutely broken and in tears,
and rebuild.
And it's like I really lovethat process of almost like a
rebirth while you're out there,because you get broken down to
your bare, absolute bare bonesand then you have to rebuild

(08:03):
yourself.
And it was funny to hear myfriends actually say who were
crewing me.
They said during the race theysort of saw me go through this
process and towards the lasthundred miles, I was just like
so chilled, nothing could phaseme, like I was just so zen about
everything and it was like,yeah, I'd, I'd reached, I'd gone
into the hole, I'd come backout and yeah, yeah, I think for

(08:25):
me it was like beforehand, it'slike I want to get to that point
.
When you hit that point, it'sso horrible that you just want
to get out of it.
But there's no way to get outof it apart from going through
it, unless, of course, you quit,which is not an option.
Yeah, and yeah, I think for meit really is.
I just love how it makes mefeel afterwards as well, just

(08:51):
that whole feeling ofaccomplishment and taking on the
world, and I think it justreally balances me out, like I
feel like I'm less stressed now,you know, because life stresses
just get in the way and thishas a real way of just cleansing
, I guess, and, yeah,rebalancing you back to like an
equilibrium and ready to move onagain.
Yeah, and I find that every timeafter a race, like no matter

(09:13):
how brutal it is, it just knocksyou down and then you come back
and you're refreshed and you'relike a new person, like a
butterfly.
You know it's.
Yeah, I think it's justfantastic and yeah, for me it's
really helped me just overcomeeverything, uh, in terms of my
confidence and, you know, bodyimage issues and and all of that
, and yeah, I just find that itjust helps propel me forward

(09:36):
every time.
So, yeah, I just love gettingto that point of the suffering,
which is strange, but I thinkit's because we don't.
You know I'm very privileged, Ihave a good life.
I'm not in.
You know I'm very privileged, Ihave a good life.
I'm not in a life where I'msuffering, I have good health.
You know, I have a good partner, we're comfortable.
But you know there's somethingabout having to suffer that, you

(09:57):
know, I think is part of ahuman nature that we need that
to move forward.
So yeah, if you're not gettingthat in day-to-day life.
I think a lot of us go seekingfor it, which is why you know
there was 330 people that signedup for this race, because we're
all crazy and all want to trythis out.

Lisa Danylchuk (10:14):
So yeah, there's so much in what you're saying,
that soul cleansing element ofit.
I can relate to that and Iremember feeling like there was
this containment of well whenI'm out on the trail.
I also don't have to deal withthe stressors of daily life.
I just need to focus onhydration and food and one foot
in front of the other andenjoying the landscape and

(10:37):
talking to people or listeningto music or doing whatever I was
doing to, ideally for me, enjoyit.
So I have a little bit of adifferent perspective.
I think I wasn't seeking thesuffering so much, but I was
like um, definitely relate tothat cleansing element of it and
also accepting the hard partsand not know like working with

(10:58):
the hard parts.
Well, how do I relate to that?
Do I think, oh, it's hard atmile 30, which means I'm not
going to finish 50 miles?
No, like, oh, it's hard rightnow, what do I need?
Let me give myself that andthen keep going Right.
And so I'm curious for you, anda lot of times on this show we
talk about trauma and recoveryand that rebuilding, and you
were just talking about thatrebuilding on the trail.

(11:20):
So I'm wondering what, once youhit that point where it's
suffering and it's hard and partof you maybe wants to quit.
There's one thing you saidwhich is quitting is not an
option, and I think having thatreally strong within you matters
right when you really want tofinish the race.
It's different than like, oh,I'm just going out, we'll see
what happens.
And there are times Dion and Italked about this too there are

(11:42):
times to call it like it's notthis priority today.
But when you are committed andyou're in it and you hit that
low, what are some of the thingsyou find that help you through
that?
To the other zen side for the Ilove this last hundred miles of
the race, like you're justcoasting in, right, just
coasting in those last hundo.
No, deal?

Lucja Leonard (12:04):
well, I think it'll.
It changes, I think, every race, uh, that you do as well.
But you know, for this race inparticular, I had four amazing
women that came to support me.
Um, you know, they'd taken timeoff work, they'd made their own
way to the race as well.
So, for me, um, you know, Icouldn't quit for them either.
You know they were there forthe whole week, so it's like I

(12:26):
have to do it for them as well.
So, yeah, it's having that inthe back of your mind.
At times, they would also readout some messages that people
had been sending on Instagram.
I had, like, one of my friendsis a teacher and her class had
sent a video cheering me on andthey had posters and everything.
And, you know, I'm just like Ican't let down a group of kids

(12:48):
in a classroom, like that's just, that would be so wrong.
Like these kids are beinginspired by seeing what I'm
doing.
So I have to show them that I'mstronger than that.
So, yeah, I have to just carryon and I think sometimes you
have to just let out youremotions.
Like it was probably, yes, wedid 120, 130 miles in and we'd

(13:09):
climbed Mount Lemon, which waslike a 7,000 foot climb and it
was in the heat of the sun.
It was like baking hot but alsofreezing cold at the same time,
because there was this reallycold wind coming through and
there was snow on the ground.
But I was like cooking and Iwas in thermals but I'm cold and
I'm just like so tired and thecheckpoint was just not coming

(13:31):
and then when it finally didcome, like I just burst into
tears.
I was just like so spentemotionally from getting up that
climb and then it was justhaving to to from there.
It was like, okay, now you'reruined, so to speak.
It's like just, let's sit down,let's cool down, let's eat some
food, drink some drink.

(13:51):
And then I had all my friendslike telling me how amazing I
was doing.
And you know, suddenly you'rejust like okay, I'm good again,
half an hour later you're likeokay, let's go, let's do this
next section.
Later you're like okay, let'sgo, let's do this next section.
Um, and yeah, it's kind of funnyhow you can actually rebuild
and recover on the way, becauseyou actually get to a point
where you think I'm so brokenlike I'm going to stay like this

(14:13):
now for the next 200 miles, andit's like, actually you're not,
you're going through waves.
It's like you said, at 30 milesyou might be broken, thinking
oh, I can never get to 50.
But then suddenly you back upand then, yeah, if you go
further, it's like, yeah, you godown again and then you go back
up.
So, yeah, it is really aboutjust trying to rebuild along the

(14:33):
way and recover and overcome asyou're through it.
So, and I guess that's a bitlike life.
You know, when you are in thesituation it's like there's no,
it's not normally an endpoint towhat you're going through.
You know, when you are in thesituation it's like there's no,
it's not normally an end pointto what you're going through.
You know, whether that's stressor trauma or whatever, it kind
of gradually changes andimproves and then it may lessen

(14:55):
again and improve again, but itis just a roller coaster all the
time.
So yeah, I think ultra runningis really just life, but just in
a shortened space of time,concentrated life, right, yeah,
exactly Concentrated into a fewdays time.

Lisa Danylchuk (15:11):
But, yeah, all the ups and downs are there.
And you mentioned socialaccountability having people
that know what you're doing andknow about the goal and who are
inspired with you.
For you, who you don't want tolet down right, that keeps you
going with you.
For you, who you don't want tolet down right, that keeps you
going.
But also this element ofgetting through something really
hard, being very broken downand then rebuilding and taking

(15:32):
that moment.
Okay, I'm going to eat.
I'm going to you have thecheckpoint.
I'm going to eat.
I'm going to drink.
I'm going to talk to my friends.
Oh, look, I have some energy.
And I think, just like you weresaying, in life, when we're
going through a really hard time, it can feel like it's going to
last forever.
And you can think, oh, if I'mat mile 120, well, I've got
another 180 miles to go.
I'm 20 years old.
If I live to be 90, the rest ofmy life is going to be tortured

(15:54):
, right, like we do.
These narratives where we think, especially when we're at our
most challenging points, thatthose feelings are going to
endure forever.
Right, and, and that's notnecessarily the truth, and
sometimes, if we get that breakand get some nourishment, some
encouragement, some genuinesupport and connection, it's

(16:15):
like, oh, I actually do feeldifferent or get some.
I know, in this case, in ultrarunning, you don't always get
this, but get some good sleepright, like even a micro nap on
an ultra trail can be huge.
I've heard people say theyslept for 10 seconds.
It felt like 10 hours right.
So there are ways that we cantake what we need, continue on,

(16:36):
and it doesn't mean that, oh,now that I went to this rest
stop, I feel a hundred percent.
I'm 120.
Like it's still effort and it'sstill hard, but that's very
much like life.
There's always something Rightand I think our minds can be
like we want it to be perfect.
Right, it's gotta be perfectand everything has to flow
together.
It's like, well, maybe justcontinue on and ride the wave.

(16:57):
So that sounds like one ofthose life lessons that can come
out of doing something wildlike this.

Lucja Leonard (17:05):
Yeah, and if everything was perfect.
Like you know, I think about afew other races that I've done
that have gone without anyhiccups or you know, and
probably talking shorter races,but they're not memorable.
You know, the races youremember are the ones that have
the tough moments, and it's abit like life as well If there
weren't tough moments, you'renot going to enjoy the good

(17:25):
moments either.
So, yeah, I think it'simportant to have that contrast
as well.

Lisa Danylchuk (17:30):
So, as much as it hurts at the time, and
there's something about beingthere for all of it, like not
resisting.
Suffering is a part of life.
I know that's like in somereligions or Buddhism it's a
tenant of it.
Right, like this is part ofliving.
We resist that.
We can narrow our scope, sothen we're not really feeling
anything that much anymore.
So it sounds like for this raceyou really dove right in right.

(17:52):
You've got the fullvicissitudes of life, between
the oh my God, I'm really brokendown and then to where you are
now of just feeling accomplishedand being able to rest after
and celebrate and share thataccomplishment.
How did the classroom reactwhen they knew that you finished
?
Have you seen anything?

Lucja Leonard (18:10):
No, I have spoken to my friend and yeah, they
were super excited they werefollowing the dot.
Every morning they'd come in,they'd check in online and, yeah
, follow my dots.
So they were super excited tosee me finish.
So, yeah, that's great.

Lisa Danylchuk (18:24):
And did you sleep at all on the trail?
Did you get any?

Lucja Leonard (18:26):
rest.
I probably had about I want tosay about three and a half to
four hours sleep over the fournights.
So I probably had three, onehour sleeps in the back of the
car.
So that felt like heaven.
And yeah, I had a couple oftrail naps where, it's quite
funny, one of my friends videoedme getting down for a trail nap

(18:47):
and I just saw some grass and Ijust dumped myself in there and
it was really spiky grass.
But to me I was just like thatlooks so comfortable.
I'm just I'm in there and she'slike before you can even say
I'll set the timer for twominutes.
I was already snoring.
So yeah, it was.
It's amazing how you can sleepanywhere, Like I'm normally a

(19:08):
really light sleeper and I needthe right pillow, I need the
right temperature.
Yet get me on a trail and I'msleep deprived.
I'm like I will sleep oncactuses.
I'm just like.

Lisa Danylchuk (19:18):
Oh, this is so good.
That's amazing.
I remember in the middle of thenight, that's amazing.
I remember in the middle of thenight, the first hundred miler.
I attempted and I was hearingcoyotes howl.
It's like, oh, coyotes, softfur, they sound so snuggly.
Maybe if I see some I can curlup with them.
It's like you get a littledelusional at points too.
Ooh, that would be nice.

(19:39):
I could just curl up withcoyotes before I run another 40
miles.

Lucja Leonard (19:45):
Exactly yeah, we heard some of them calling out
and my friend who was pacing metold me later she was absolutely
shitting herself, thinking wewere going to get attacked by
coyotes, and I was just like, oh, it's such a nice melody.

Lisa Danylchuk (19:57):
It sounds so pretty and your friend's like,
which just goes to show we canhave very different experiences
of the same stimuli.
Right Like's so soothing, oh mygod, that's terrifying.
So how did you initially getinto trail running?
You mentioned that you didn'tgrow up really, you know, into
sports, getting notes to get outof sports in class and things

(20:19):
like that.
How did this start with you?

Lucja Leonard (20:22):
well, I'd gotten myself a little overweight.
So at one point I was shoppingfor clothes and had to go nearly
to the big girl's shop whichyou know talking 20 odd years
ago they didn't have all thesizes in the shops.
You had to shop in a separateshop.
So yeah, that kind of hit hometo me.
I was like I need to dosomething about it.
So I started going to the gymand just you know, watching what

(20:44):
I was eating, like just being abit healthier, and started to
lose some weight and started togo out for you know little run,
walk scenarios and thought Iwould sign up for a 10K race and
you know, went along and didthat.
It was a road race and I was sonervous and was worried about
coming dead last or notfinishing, but I had like so
much fun because everyone was sonervous and was worried about

(21:04):
coming dead last or notfinishing, but I had like so
much fun because everyone was sobuzzy and full of energy.
And yeah, from there I justkind of started entering some
half marathons and slowly butsurely I started meeting some
people who ran on the trails,who invited me to go out with
them and you know, I justremember some of those first
ones, I just had no idea what Iwas doing.

(21:26):
Even simply hiking up amountain with some of my friends
, you know, I'd just go inshorts and a shirt and they'd be
like, oh, have you got a jacketand gloves?
Because you know we're going up3000 feet and it's like, oh no,
what do I need that for?
So you know, I learned the hardway as well as to what you need
to take and you know I justreally enjoyed being out there.
And you know, just entering myfirst ultramarathon was actually

(21:50):
through Dion, my husband.
He bought me a book for mybirthday, which was a coffee
table book of the world'stoughest endurance challenges.
And this was after I'd beenrunning a few marathons and
things.
And he'd said you know, openthe book up and the first thing
your finger falls upon, we'll goand do Because my birthday is
right before Christmas.
So it was like that was yourbirthday present, your Christmas

(22:11):
present is whatever you choose.
So, yeah, that ended up beingthe Kalahari Extreme Marathon in
South Africa, which was amulti-stage race over a week, so
six stages, and you'rebasically running a marathon a
day and one day you run twomarathons.
So 50 mile day and, to make iteven harder, it's fully
self-sufficient.
So you're carrying a pack withall your food and kit to survive

(22:35):
the week.
So breakfast, lunch and dinnerfor seven days, sleeping bag,
sleeping mat, change yourclothes, so you know your bag's
about 20 to 30 pounds as well,and the only thing the race
gives you is water along the way, kind of every 10K, and at
nighttime they'd give you like abit of tarpaulin to sleep under
out in the wild.
So, yeah, it was.

(22:56):
We went out there, having noidea what we were doing, just
kind of got kitted out by someultra running store and went out
there and you know, we just hadthe most amazing experience,
like the people that you runwith, like connecting with these
people that are all out theredoing the same thing, becoming
like family and running withlike giraffes running beside you

(23:19):
and springbok, and then seeingbaboons, and oh, it was just
like, it was just mind-blowing,like I'd never had that kind of
adventure before and yeah, to meit really felt like an
adventure.
Um, crossing that finish linewas just amazing and I'd
actually come second female atmy first ever race.
So I was like, oh my god, maybeI'm actually okay at this stuff

(23:42):
.
Maybe longer distance is moremy thing.
You know, I'm not a fast runnerand yeah, kind of from there it
just sparked this interest ingoing to sign up.
For I've always been excited bywhatever has a high DNF rate.
Yes, so I do not finish right.
If I hear a race that's tough,I'm like, oh, I want to do that.
So yeah, and even if that meansI might not finish, it's kind

(24:05):
of like a okay, I might notfinish the first time, but I'm
going to go back and do it againuntil I finish it.
So, yeah, I really like thehard stuff and yeah, that kind
of just developed this love forultra running and trails.
So, yeah, kind of turned intothis mountain goat and really
love the mountains.

Lisa Danylchuk (24:30):
I have to ask do you feel interested by Barkley
Marathon?
For those who don't knowBarkley Marathon, it's like it's
basically a scramble throughthe brambles, like it has all
these, all this culture aroundit but it's off the.
You know you have to navigateyourself, you have to people
often DNF that.
So I'm just curious if that'ssomething that calls to you
Cause, cause I personally havemy limits.
I'm like I like the hard stuffand then no, not that, though.

Lucja Leonard (24:50):
Yeah, no, that just seems like pure torture.
Yeah Right, exactly, okay.
I mean, I like to have type twofun and I don't think that
that's.
You know, that's going to betype three and above.
Yeah, I don't think there's anyfun in that race at all and
it's purely like it's notrunning.
It needs so much navigation.
It's like I don't mind a bit ofsimple navigation, but yeah,

(25:11):
that race is not for me.
I mean, there's only been onefemale finisher, so guaranteed
to DNF and yeah, no so I thinkthis year there were no
finishers across the board.

Lisa Danylchuk (25:22):
Right, it's so.
Yeah, and hats off to peoplewho attempt, who want to and
attempt that, and to JasminePerez for finishing that.
That was incredible.
I have those pictures, I thinkby Howie Stern, just etched in
my mind, right, like, oh, whatan accomplishment.
But, yeah, you have to want it.
And that moment when you openthe book and your finger lands

(25:44):
on this race in did you say itwas in South Africa?
Yeah, your finger lands on thisrace in South Africa and it's
multi-marathons.
That's very different than ahalf marathon, right, that's
very different than somethingyou show up in the morning.
You get a good oh, I got agreat start to my weekend here.
Right, this is multiple days.
It's an adventure.
I'm wondering.

(26:06):
There's a moment there whereyou decided, and you committed
to it, where you could have goneoh, let's turn the page again.
Or you could have gone, oh,that's nice, let's do something
else.
Let's go to Barbados and sit onthe beach instead.
What do you feel like it was inyou that really committed to
that race and went through withit.

Lucja Leonard (26:27):
Yeah, I don't know if it was maybe like some
sort of sense of adventure andalso a sense of proving that I
can do hard things, like Iconsider myself I'm quite a soft
person, like I love my creaturecomforts, and you know, I think
, yeah, just reading about itand wondering, can I put myself

(26:47):
out there and do something likethis?
You know they're tough races.
You hear people die doing someof these races.
It can be really dangerous andI think that really called to me
in a way of just excitement andadventure.
And, yeah, I think it was mecoming out of my shell and I've
never, like, pushed myself tothose sorts of limits before.

(27:09):
You know, always been verysoftly, softly, and I think,
yeah, doing that also combinedat the time with, you know, my
career kind of taking off aswell, because that built
confidence which then comes intoyour everyday life as well.
And, yeah, I think it was Idon't know something just
sparked in me just thinking, wow, like could you imagine, like

(27:29):
could I ever really could I, thefat girl, do that?
Like, really, it's just yeah, Ithink it was just that whole
thought of maybe I could like,maybe I should give it a try.
Yeah, that was it really.

Lisa Danylchuk (27:47):
I'm curious about that confidence and your
journey with it.
How do you feel like theexperiences on the trail shape
your sense of self and maybeyour belief in yourself, your
self-esteem, your sense ofconfidence?

Lucja Leonard (28:11):
of you know faking it till you make it.
It's like when you go to theseraces you have to have some sort
of confidence to to make it tothe end.
And you know, to begin with Ididn't have that confidence and
I would just pretend that I hadthe confidence.
And every time I turn up at astart line, like I'd look around
me, I'd be like, oh my God, I'mso out of my depth.
Like everyone looks so fit andso experienced and there's me.

(28:32):
What am I doing here?
Just imposter syndrome at itsworst.
And I think, just every racethat I finished I just started
to believe more in myself.
And you know I'm not justfinishing these races, I'm not
coding, I'm not on the podium byany stretch normally, but you
know I'm not on the podium byany stretch normally, but you
know I'm normally in the sort oftop third.

(28:54):
So for me that's like that'sreally good, like you're not
back of the pack, You're like asolid middle of the pack, edging
towards the front there, andyou're just this girl from way
back when who didn't even likesports.
And I think every time Iachieved these things it just
was another building block ofconfidence.
And you know the problemsolving you have to do along the

(29:15):
way to get through these racesand you know coming back and
rebuilding and changing yourtraining to make yourself
stronger and learning more aboutyourself, and I really feel
like I've become so in tune withmy body.
You know whether that's justday to day or it's out in a race
, but I really understand what'sgoing on with my body and, yeah

(29:35):
, it just it's just built me upto be really confident and happy
with myself.
So, yeah, it's taken years,though, but years and a lot of
miles.

Lisa Danylchuk (29:47):
Yeah.

Lucja Leonard (29:48):
Yeah, and it's a slow progression, isn't it?
And even sometimes I catchmyself and I'll see like a
reflection of myself in a mirroror walking past a shop.
I'm like, oh wow, she lookslike a runner.
So oh, that's me.
Yeah, I look like a runner.

Lisa Danylchuk (30:03):
So you've mentioned weight management
through movement and diet andexercise, which just a healthy
lifestyle is so important forall of us.
And then there's this edge alsoof body positivity, of like
being proud of that you'restrong, right?
So I'm just hearing that edgeof and I'm thinking about it.
For so many people it's likehow do I encourage myself to

(30:25):
make choices that maybe are hardand maybe have a growing edge,
without that being a point ofshame against my body?
Do you get what I'm trying toarticulate here?
There's something in there aboutdoing something healthy and
getting strong and being proudand being proud of your body and
connected to your body, whileletting go of that 80s, 90s and

(30:49):
it perpetuates, right.
But that toxic influence ofthis is what a body looks like
and this is a good looking body,and this is a quote, unquote
pretty woman, or this is right,all these different messages we
get that are so deeply ingrainedin our culture.
How do you feel like runninghas helped you tease that out
and come to a place of?

(31:09):
You know it's always dynamic,it's always ongoing, but come to
a place of feeling good in yourskin?

Lucja Leonard (31:16):
Yeah, well, I think in the whole running
community, and particularlytrail running more so than road
running.
But when you're out thereyou're surrounded by all
different body shapes anddifferent abilities, different
ages, different ethnicities,like, and I think that really is
a balancing thing.
You could be at the start lineand I'll be looking at someone

(31:37):
thinking, oh wow, they're superstrong, super skinny, they're
going to be ahead of me and thenthey'll end up finishing hours
behind me and you start to thinkwell, actually, the fact that I
have some fat on my body andI'm a bit bigger is actually
good in the endurance worldbecause I've got something to
draw on when I'm out there for100 miles plus, like I'm drawing

(31:58):
on reserves that other peopledon't have.
So you know, I always like tothink you know the first 100
miles I might be back a fair way.
But then I start to comethrough the field because I'm
just like a locomotive, I justkeep going.
I think for me that's reallybuilt that up in my head and you
know, as you're going throughthe race and you're sitting
there with other people andrunning with other people and

(32:20):
you're seeing all theirdifferent shapes and sizes, and
we're all strong people and itdoesn't matter what size you are
when you're out there.
And, yeah, I think that'sreally helped in balancing that
as well.
And being out there and knowingthat you have to eat, you have
to drink, like there's no, youcan't restrict things.
And you know, even in thetraining side of things, like I

(32:40):
used to go out for 20 mile runsand try not to eat because it's
like, well, then I can burn morecalories, right Whereas now
it's thinking, no, you have toeat because you need to do the
second 10 miles as a goodtraining run, like the first 10
miles, and you can't do that ifyou don't eat.
So, yeah, it's having that wholemind shift into you know, food
is good for the body and just,yeah, having that all around you

(33:04):
, I think.
Just all the different shapesand sizes, because, yes, you can
be skinny and strong as well,but you can be big and strong as
well.
But you can be big and strongas well and everything in
between, like everything's okay,whereas, yeah, I think the
media like to project onecertain body type, yeah, whereas
now it seems to be opening up.
Especially, I just find inultra running, it's so open with

(33:24):
everything that it yeah, I justfind that really welcoming and
really encouraging as well.
So yeah, that really welcomingand really encouraging as well.
So yeah, ultra running thecommunity.

Lisa Danylchuk (33:36):
I think, maybe because people have been out on
the trail and done the diggingthat you're talking about within
themselves and found thosedifficult edges and seen just
how you figure out how yourelate to yourself and how you
relate to support and and Ithink, doing some of that work
you know it's not sitting on atherapy couch, but it's very
effective for getting to knowyourself right.
It's a wonderful way toself-reflect and learn and I

(33:57):
think people do across the boardfeel so much more welcoming and
open and supportive and I knowthat's even explicit in some
communities.
They're really working to beincreasingly inclusive and like
encourage people to come out andlike look at this, this amazing
nature you can be a part of.
Look at this amazing experienceyou can be a part of.

(34:17):
Whether you're hiking it orrunning it, whether you're on
still places, you can justcelebrate the experience of
nature, of being together, ofbeing out, of doing something
hard, of doing something fun andgetting to know each other in
the process.
I feel like the trail runningcommunity is beautiful in that

(34:44):
way.

Lucja Leonard (34:45):
Yeah, and I think that's the thing with the
competition Like you're reallyjust competing against yourself,
competition like you're reallyjust competing against yourself.
And you know, apart from the fewthat are going for the podium
spots, that's really what we'redoing out there is we're
competing against our ownbeliefs and our own perceptions
of what's possible, and yeah, soI think, yeah, it's a great way
to get to know yourself.

(35:05):
I mean, you just touched on thatbriefly, but you know, when
you're out there and you get tothat really low point, it's the
time where you really uncoverwho you are as a person.
And you know, sometimes youmight not like what you see out
there.
And that's when you go back toyour normal life and you think,
right, that's where I need tomake some changes.
You know, like you know, I tryto run with joy and be happy and

(35:29):
friendly out there, and youknow, sometimes you think, gosh,
you know when I'm really down,am I being that good person out
there?
Am I making the right decisionsand being kind to others?
When I'm in that low place, andI think it's a really, yeah,
really sort of touching place toget to where you can actually
see yourself for who you trulyare, and and yeah, see if that

(35:51):
needs changing Whole scope,right?

Lisa Danylchuk (35:53):
The whole scope of how we behave and how we
interact with other people.
I mean, I've walked by peopleand I try to say hi a lot of the
times, or smile.
I'm out there and sometimessomeone's just in a really
grumpy space.
I try to remember like I'vebeen there, I've definitely been
there where, whether it's lowblood sugar, I've just been out
a long time or I'm workingthrough something deep, like

(36:13):
there are times where someonesays hi to me and I can barely
manage a grunt, or an odd orwhatever, or times where maybe I
was so deep I didn't evennotice, or that's probably
happened, I don't know because Ididn't notice then.
But I try to give the benefit ofthe doubt to to other folks,
and I think that's a part ofthat empathy that weaves into
the community.
As people are like oh, I'vebeen there too, I can identify

(36:35):
with that low.
I'm no longer judging peoplewho are even grumpy or snappy,
right, because they're like ohyeah, I've been there, let's get
you some food.
Exactly, and I thinkrelationship to food is such a
big thing.
I mean, as a therapist, I thinka lot about with addictions.
People can cut things out.

(36:55):
If you're addicted to certainsubstances, even certain
relationship dynamics, you canset a firm boundary and say like
well, I don't do that anymore.
We can't do that with food,right, if someone has like a
relationship with food thatfeels like it's negative or it's
, you know, going into eatingdisorder territory, we can't
just be like, no, well, I justdon't do food, I do, I do

(37:16):
breathing.
I mean, I guess breathitariansI've heard of before.
I don't know how long they live, but as a rule we need food and
water to stay alive.
And so, working through yourrelationship to food.
I've found that to be reallyinteresting in the trail
community too, and just like inhealth and wellness, there's
trends, right, and I see rightnow trending more towards hey,

(37:37):
fuel yourself, right.
Hey, you need food while you'reout there, not just for energy
on the trail, but also forrecovery and repair, like if
you're really trying to getbetter and not just burn
calories, as you mentioned.
If you're really trying to getbetter, then you need that fuel
to rebuild while you're outthere, to rebuild after.
And that's really interesting.
And there was this moment whenI was training this was when I

(37:59):
was still at the half marathonstage of my running journey
where something clicked in mybrain and I wouldn't have ever
thought that it hadn't clickedbefore.
I would have told you no, foodis energy.
I get that thought that ithadn't clicked before.
I would have told you, no, like, food is energy, I get that.
But I was like, oh I, the foodis energy.
Like it just clicked in adeeper way I can't describe it

(38:19):
better than that where I waslike, wow, exactly what I put in
is impacting what I can bringout, and I've had that even
recently.
Again, right, we relearn thesethings millions of times my
daughter for two years now andbeing like I don't think I'm
getting enough food.
I'm getting super grumpy.
This feels like a trail runwhen I need a gel, like, okay, I
, probably this was like lastweek.

(38:40):
I'm not even kidding where I'mlike I need to fuel myself
better.
I'm, you know, having proteinshakes or chia packs or eating
the rest of my daughter's foodLike that doesn't count as
breakfast, or eating the rest ofmy daughter's food Like that
doesn't count as breakfast.
So how am I going to actuallyfuel myself?
I think that's a beautifulconversation that can come out
of trail running, where, inrelationship to body image and

(39:01):
body positivity, it's also justlike having that relationship to
food.
That's like what's reallyintuitively too.
What's going to fuel me?
What do I go up to an aidstation when they have more than
water?

Lucja Leonard (39:11):
When.

Lisa Danylchuk (39:11):
I go to an aid station and I see something and
it just looks like the rightthing.
How do I learn how to trustthat?
How do I learn the boundariesaround what's really not good
for me even when it does lookgood?
So there's so much nuance to it, right In terms of just getting
to know yourself and refiningthat essential element of life
Like how do I have energy?
Right, I have energy to do thethings I want to do.

Lucja Leonard (39:32):
Yeah, and also like I think it's dangerous to
think of food as just fuel CauseI think that's coming out a
little bit now as well, thatit's like, well, it is just fuel
.
You know, I just eat to getfuel and it's like, but it
should also be a source ofenjoyment.
You know, like I've lovednothing better than coming home
and Dion had got me this amazingcelebration cake and you know,

(39:53):
eating like slab after slab ofthis cake has been absolutely
divine.
And, you know, going out, wehad a celebration lunch with my
friends and it was just, youknow, also just having food to
enjoy and as part of you know,connecting with people.
And you know, buildingrelationships over, and you know
, building relationships overfood, I think, is also just so

(40:14):
important.
And, yeah, I think a lot ofthat's missed these days as well
, because, yeah, everyone's likerushing around or they're on
their phones or they're, youknow, worried about how much
they're eating.
It's like, no, you've got tolive life as well.

Lisa Danylchuk (40:26):
Like, go out and have the meals, go out and eat
the ice cream, like it's all,all part of it, you know, makes
you happy, things that you enjoy, like really giving yourself
the things you enjoy and I'veheard people coming out of
eating disorders saying that tooof like, oh wait, this isn't
just a measurement Right.
And even as athletes, even ifwe're, we can go in that

(40:48):
direction of like and I don't dothis so much myself, but I see
it around where it's like thismany grams of this and that many
grams of that, just choke itback, even if you don't like it,
and I'm like no, no, I got towant it.
There was a season I wastraining for Boston Marathon.
I just wanted lemon.
I was like lemonade lemon, I'lljust just go with it.
Like you need the energy, findit in a form that you enjoy and

(41:09):
then you have a celebratory cakeright.
Social and cultural elements offood, like I think we can.
We can get far away from thatwhen we get too scientific about
it.

Lucja Leonard (41:19):
Right, yeah, exactly.
And there's nothing better than, like some of my paces would
have a surprise snack on thetrail for me, like you know, a
little chocolate bar orsomething that just like yay,
that's something I didn't have.
Great, I'll eat that.

Lisa Danylchuk (41:34):
Something novel, right?
Something that's a gift, that'sa treat.
Yes, so trail running hasbecome such a part of your life.
Right, dion's an ultramarathoner.
He met Gobi out on the trail,who's a part of your family.
You're coaching as well.
How is that for you as a family?
It seems like it's prettyintegrated into your lifestyle

(41:55):
to be doing events and to bechallenging yourselves in these.

Lucja Leonard (41:58):
I mean, it's great to have a partner that
understands as well.
You know, I've worked I've gotfriends and worked with clients
as well where their partnersdon't support them, and you know
it.
Just it's so hard when theydon't understand what you're
going through, what you need togo through to get these races
done as well.
So, yeah, that's become reallyimportant and we both understand
from each other like you needto get out to get this training

(42:21):
done, and you know it's aboutmaking time for that as well and
making each other go out and dothe training.
You know, because sometimesyou're on different schedules,
like at at the moment, I'mrelaxing, but Dion's out doing a
15 mile run right now and heneeds to go and do that, and he
already missed it on Saturdaybecause I wanted to have Bloody
Marys for breakfast, and so it'slike you can't sabotage each

(42:44):
other because of you know you'regoing through a different
process.
So it's about supporting eachother in that as well.
And yeah, I think that's reallyimportant to understand that.
And if your partner's not intoit, you know it's trying to
maybe get them to come along andsee what happens at these races
, to understand how deep you'rehaving to dig as well and why

(43:05):
the training is so important.
And yeah, but it has definitelybecome.
You know it's part of our livesand I guess it will be for a
long time to come yet, but yeah,I think it's a healthy thing as
well.
I love going out for runs withDion as well, so it means we can
share in it together.
You know, being fit and healthywhen you go somewhere, you can
go and climb a mountain and lookat the views, and it doesn't

(43:27):
always have to be about running,but I think by doing the
running we're fit and healthy.
That enables us to go and dosome other experiences that you
might not do if we were stillback where we were smoking and
drinking too much, that youwouldn't have those experiences.
So, yeah, I think it's lovelyto have that as part of our life
and coaching people as well.

(43:48):
I actually coached a guy calledTravis who also finished the
Arizona Monster yeah, so thatwas amazing.
Like the feeling of yeah, justaccomplishment from getting him
across the line is alsosomething else.
You know he'd never he'd DNFMoab the year before at 67 miles
, never run a hundred milesbefore picked up coaching with

(44:09):
me in December and it might havebeen November got him doing 100
miles in January and then justcoached him through until now
and, yeah, he finished as well.
So, yeah, he had an amazingtime and he can tick that box
that he's done it.
So, yeah, I think, gettingpeople across that line as well

(44:30):
not just myself, but that's alsoamazing.
I got to share a few miles withthem out there as well, so we
ran together for a bit and, yeah, that that is also amazing.
I love seeing other peopleaccomplish these ultras as well
and and seeing what they'recapable of.
You know, I've coached a fewpeople and there's one lady in
particular from Scotland.
She came to me for a 50k likeprobably six, seven years ago,

(44:53):
and you know, since then she'snow run 100 miles and a
multi-stage race and you knowit's like, well, what's?

Lisa Danylchuk (44:59):
next, can I get her?

Lucja Leonard (45:00):
to do 200, but it's you know, she's just just
surpassed everything she everthought was possible as well.
And yeah, I love working withpeople and sharing that
knowledge with them as well,because so much of it isn't just
the training you know, you knowwhat you need to do to run 100
miles.
You just got to do the trainingand you can get a plan offline

(45:20):
that will get you to the finishbut it's understanding all those
other nuances of you know themental side of the whole sport.
So, yeah, I love sharing thatwith people and, yeah, trying to
help them understand what sortof obstacles they're going to be
facing out there as well.
And, yeah, hopefully myknowledge and my mistakes help
them make less mistakes and getto the finish as well.

Lisa Danylchuk (45:43):
Yeah, and the emotional support and the
personal experience, like AIwill never have that.
Exactly AI doesn't know whatit's like to get to the top of
Mount Lemon at the night andfeel broken.
It might, but it doesn't.
Well, congratulations to Travis, to all the people you've been
coaching, who have made itthrough these tough things, and

(46:05):
I'm like sign me up.
I actually have a.
There's just a 50K.
Since I've come back frommaternity leave, the longest
I've done has been a 30K so far.
There's a 50K that's on myradar that I haven't signed up
for yet.
I feel like after thisconversation, I will go on the
website and be like okay, signup, got these bridges through

(46:25):
the Alps.
Oof, that's the thing I want toand that's the thing I'm
curious about.
I've never had that before.
Oof, that's the thing I want toand that's the thing I'm
curious about.
I've never had that before.
I honestly I want to do the ahundred miler.
I just don't know, honestly, ifit's the right thing for my
body right now, because I'mstill working through some
postpartum niggles that I'm likeam I going to just hurt myself?
Cause I don't want to do that?
So it's, you know,no-transcript.

Lucja Leonard (46:57):
No, not touch wood, not injuries.
I've been very lucky with that.
The worst I did was actuallystrained my groin last year
doing Rio de Lago 100.
Yeah, yeah, I had to take a fewweeks off and, yeah, just kind
of rehab that.
But touch wood, that that'skind of the biggest injury I had
.
I guess the worst thing I'vehad to overcome was um.

(47:19):
I had COVID a couple of times um, back in 21, 22, and I remember
going to Tahoe 200 in 2022 torun that and I'd had COVID just
six weeks before and I must havebeen experiencing some sort of
long COVID and you know, dionhad said to me you probably
shouldn't go to this race.
You know you're not breathingwell, you're not feeling well,

(47:43):
I'm like, no, I'm fine, I'mgoing to go do it.
And yeah, going there, and thenDNFing was proving right, I
shouldn't have gone.
And yeah, having to overcomethat.
It took me like probably 18months to get myself back on
track, dnf'd another hundred inthe meantime through having
illness issues again, uh,arising from that.
So for me it hasn't been injury,but it's actually been like

(48:05):
health issues, um, and finallygetting to that point where I've
figured out what I need um.
So, yeah, now I'm on vitaminB12 and vitamin D supplements
and that seems to be my magicpotion.
As soon as I stopped takingthem, I get sick again.
So I'm like, right, that's me.
For life I'm on thosesupplements.
So I don't know what it is, but, yeah, that seems to work for

(48:26):
me.
So you found what you need yeah, yeah.

Lisa Danylchuk (48:30):
So those are some of the challenging moments.
What are some of your favorite?

Lucja Leonard (48:34):
moments on the trail.
Well, favorite moments, wow,seeing sunrises.
I love sunrises.
I get really bad sleepies ataround three or four in the
morning and then when the suncomes up, just it just feels
like such a rejuvenation, likeit's such a new day, and just

(48:55):
the way the light falls on theearth, like it, just you know.
You just have to stand theresometimes and just look around,
and the same with sunsets.
I mean, they're just so magicalwhen you're out in the middle
of nowhere as well, just somerandom spot in a trail, um.
So yeah, definite highlightsare things like that and
highlights of, you know,generosity of people as well.

(49:17):
Um, I've had a couple of timesin races where my head torch has
failed and my backup batterieshave failed and I'm in the dark
with nothing and a runner willcome past and I'm like, do you
have a spare head torch?
And yes, and they give it to me.
I'm just like that's justamazing.
What if they need that later on?
But they're, you know just thesimple, I don't know kindness of

(49:40):
people, of helping you.
I just think that that'smagical.
And even on the race that wejust had, I was with my pacer
and we were about to come intoOak Tree Aid Station.
We're about four miles out, runout of water.
So we're probably I don't know,I want to say 230 odd miles in.
No, it's probably 250, actuallyit was closer so out of water

(50:03):
it's 90 degrees.
We're in exposed desert and weare literally dying.
And she told me afterwards shewas really panicking because
it's like what are we going todo?
We are out, we are literallydying.
And she told me afterwards shewas really panicking because
it's like what are we going todo?
We are out of water, there isno shade, there's no water
sources.
And then we saw this guy who wasjust picking up some trash from
the trail because he threw hikethe arizona trail last week.

(50:24):
And he saw us and he was likewould you girls, do you girls
need some water?
We're like yes, do you havesome?
And he gave us like one bottlethat he had on him and we just
like downed it, like it was sothirsty.
And he was like do you wantmore?
Like my car is literally justparked just out of this trail a
bit.
I could go get you some water.
We're like, yes, please.

(50:45):
And he brought us like threeliters of water and topped us up
and, oh, amazing trail angel,and it's like just that time and
place, like had we been a bitquicker we would have missed him
, had we been a bit slower wewould have missed him, and it
was like it was meant to be.
You know that he was there atthat precise moment that we
needed him and was willing tohelp.

(51:06):
Uh, yeah, just those moments Ireally love, because you know
there's so much inhumanity outthere in the world at the moment
and hate and fighting, and andthen you get out on these trails
and everyone's just loving eachother and helping each other
and yeah, I think they're all.
My favorite moments is is that?

(51:27):
And obviously crossing thefinish line.
I mean that is an amazingfeeling.

Lisa Danylchuk (51:33):
Crossing the finish line and then being out
there and having those momentsof magic, having those moments
of connection, feeling like, oh,we're supporting each other
through really hard things.
Again, that's life right To beable to have someone by your
side to joke with, or havesomeone that's willing and able
to give you their head torch orto get you some water.
I feel like so often, humansare wired to want to help each

(51:58):
other right, and we can forgetthat.
And then we meet people thatare like I've got water in my
car, do you want more?
Sure, yeah, here you go, haveit.
Let me top you out.
It's such a nice feeling toconnect in that way, and often
it's someone we've never seenbefore, we might never see again
.
And yet there's this moment ofconnecting with each other and
of feeling supported in a reallyimportant way.

(52:20):
We are dying out there.

Lucja Leonard (52:23):
They don't want anything in return, like there's
no, apart from a simple thankyou.
That's all is needed.
And yeah, I think it can alsobe a lesson to take back to life
, because a lot of the times Ithink people are scared to ask
for help, or, you know, or theythink that they're alone and
it's like but if you just reachout, there are people there that
want to help you.

(52:43):
You just have to, sometimes,you know, put your ego aside or
whatever it is that's stoppingyou from asking for help, and
just ask for help.
You don't have to do it alone,you know.
Yeah, that's what I take fromit anyway.
You're not alone in anything.
You just have to ask.

Lisa Danylchuk (53:00):
Yeah that's such a lesson, so someone might be
listening and thinking, oh,other people do this, right,
other people do 300 mile races.
That's not for me and it mightbe something different for each
person like the challenging orcrazy thing.
But what would you say tosomeone who's listening, who's
like, oh, I could never do that?

Lucja Leonard (53:22):
Well, just try.
You just don't know what you'recapable of.
Well, just try.
You just don't know what you'recapable of.
And it might not be 300 miles.
Your thing might be kayakingdown a river or whatever.
It might be rock climbing,cycling.
It might be running 300 miles,but just give it a try.
What's the worst that canhappen is that you don't finish,

(53:44):
or you have a horrible time andyou realize it's not for you.
Is that you don't finish, oryou have a horrible time and you
realize it's not for you, like,but it's all about just trying
these things and having theexperiences and, you know, just
opening up, yeah, that thatrealm of possibility.
So, yeah, I would just say,just give it a try, reach out
and ask for some help and someguidance and, yeah, get in there
and yeah, we'll see you at thestart of the next 300 miles.

(54:07):
Yes.

Lisa Danylchuk (54:09):
I love that.
What's next for you?
It doesn't have to be a race,because you just finished
something huge, but what's nextfor you?
Is it a period of rest?
Do you have your eyes on someother experience or something
professionally?

Lucja Leonard (54:23):
Well, I've got 100 miler in July, so I'm doing
Cascade Crest 100, which is upnear Seattle, and it's a Western
States qualifier and a hardrock qualifier.
So I'm going to hit two birdswith one stone and then,
stupidly, three weeks later Ihave a 215 mile race across
Scotland.
So, heading back to the UK todo the race across Scotland,

(54:47):
which is really exciting for mebecause I started ultra running
when I moved to Scotland.
So I lived in Edinburgh for six, seven years.
So, yeah, that's for me, I'mcoming back full circle.
I started there and now I'mgoing to come back and run
across the country.
Basically, so rest andrelaxation now and then get back
to building.
This was all part of theprocess of building and now I

(55:10):
know what I need to work on,which I probably knew beforehand
.
But you know, I want to get alittle faster, get a little
stronger.
It's always those sorts ofthings.
But, yeah, trying to build andbe better for next time, and
yeah, I think that's exciting.
Yeah, and from a personalperspective, yeah, we're
reapplying for our visa, sohoping that we can stay in the

(55:32):
US a bit longer, and yeah, soworking on all those things and
just trying to keep the businessgoing and, yeah, just excited
about all of that.
So we're going to have thesummer in Tahoe, so that should
be a good training ground.

Lisa Danylchuk (55:46):
Yes, that's great training ground.
Are you going to broken arrowby chance?
No, no, that's at the end ofJune in Tahoe.
We'll be there, my partner andI and my daughter.
I already signed.
This is like I'm already such aultra running mom.
I already signed up my daughterfor the kids race but I'm like
wait-listed.
I'm like, oh, it doesn't matterwhat I do, as long as she gets
in the kids race.
Of course, that's the only onethat doesn't sell out.

Lucja Leonard (56:07):
But we'll be there the last, maybe I can.
Uh, that's probably sold out, Iguess, but um no.

Lisa Danylchuk (56:12):
So you might like the triple crown, which is,
uh, I think uh, verticalkilometer one day, 23 kilometer
the next, or maybe a 46 the nextday and then a 23 the next day.
I mean that's like cake for you, that's like a morning jog.
It's a great community.
You might really love that.

(56:33):
I'd love to see you guys If weend up at the same race.
You mentioned a Western Statesand hard rock and I say my
daughter's done all the kidsraces for both of those already,
as well as UTMB.
I can't believe I better not goin this direction too hard, but
I was like we got to get her inthe UTMB race.
Yeah, she's done all of thoseunder the age of two.

(56:53):
I haven't done any well.
I've done ETC at UTMB, theshort one, and then you know mad
respect for the longer ones,cause that was plenty.
And, um, I haven't done WesternStates or hard rock, but I do
have the interest in hard rock.
I get it like that one.
I would love to do.
So if you do get the WesternStates hard rock qualifier and

(57:15):
end up back out here or inColorado, let us know because we
might be there too.
Yeah.

Lucja Leonard (57:21):
Well, I'm a few years deep into applying, so
hopefully my chances keepimproving every year.
So, yeah, wait and see.
So yeah, latency.
But yeah, maybe I'll see you atBroken Arrow then I'll have a
look into that.

Lisa Danylchuk (57:33):
Look it up and look up the triple crown.
They also have an iron face onewhere you actually are climbing
part of it.
I don't know if that's yourthing.
That's kind of where I drew theline.
I was like, oh, I'd like to beon my feet.
I'm not really a climber, butyou know we can have a look at
that, and can you?

Lucja Leonard (57:50):
tell us how is Gobi these days.
She's good.
She's good.
She came out and saw me.
Dion surprised me.
I think it was about halfway.
So, yeah, he came out and saidhi, and I saw Gobi.
So that was a real boost aswell.

Lisa Danylchuk (58:03):
And, yeah, she's doing good, so she's happy so
if people want to connect withyou and follow your journey,
what is the best place to dothat?

Lucja Leonard (58:12):
Probably on Instagram.
Running Dutchie on Instagram iskind of where I do most of my
posting.
I'm on Facebook and Tik TOK aswell as running Dutchie, but
yeah, instagram is my most usedplatform, for sure, so yeah.

Lisa Danylchuk (58:26):
And do you often go out with Dion and Gobi to
speak as well?

Lucja Leonard (58:30):
Yes, yeah, so we do a lot of author visits at
schools because we have achapter book and a picture book,
so yeah, we do lots of that,and we do corporate events and,
yeah, public library events aswell.
So, yeah, and when we do thelibraries, I talk as well, so we
share a bit of both of ourjourney, so that's a really fun
event for people to go along towhen we do those and, yeah, and

(58:53):
of course, gobi's there as well,so it's a whole family affair.

Lisa Danylchuk (58:56):
Oh yeah, gobi's so famous, so famous, and so
where should people?
Is it at dionlenardcom, or doyou have a Finding Gobi separate
page if people are interestedin that?

Lucja Leonard (59:06):
Yeah, if you go to findinggobicom, we have an
events page.
So, yeah, we list any upcomingevents there and, yeah, if
anyone wants to book their ownevent, they could reach out.
There's an email address onthere and information about
speaking events as well and abit of a rough calendar as to
where in the country we're going.
We kind of, you know, bouncearound everywhere.
So, yeah, currently West Coastbased and yeah, then we'll be

(59:30):
heading back to the East Coastat some point too.
I'll have to look up the Tahoedates.

Lisa Danylchuk (59:34):
Maybe those will overlap yeah.

Lucja Leonard (59:37):
Well, trying to get a public event there.
So yeah, and you and Dionne.

Lisa Danylchuk (59:40):
Of course it's like having a baby right.
Everyone's like how's the baby?
You're like I'm fine.
're like I'm fine.

Lucja Leonard (59:45):
Thanks, I'm tired yes, yes, I know, I get that
well, lucia.

Lisa Danylchuk (59:52):
Thank you so much for your time today.
Congratulations on completingyour first 300 mile race.
That's amazing.
Good luck all of your upcomingraces.
I do hope we get to meet inperson sometime soon.

Lucja Leonard (01:00:02):
That'd be really fun well, good luck and I hope
you sign up to that 50 K.

Lisa Danylchuk (01:00:07):
I know now I'm like maybe I should sign up for
the a hundred miler, but I'mlike you at the 3am time that's
when I really questioned thingsI'm like I value sleep so much
more now that I'm a parent too.
So that was the thing that Iwas like you know what, maybe
just a day, maybe somethingthat's not overnight would be
good for my body right now.

Lucja Leonard (01:00:25):
Yeah Well, sometimes that's a nice,
refreshing, good, hard challenge, but you get to go to bed Like
that's something to be said forthat sometimes as well.

Lisa Danylchuk (01:00:35):
Eat a meal, take a shower, go to sleep oh, the
bed never felt better.
Yeah, well, wishing you lots ofrest and celebration in the
days to come, andcongratulations again.
Thanks for being here.

Lucja Leonard (01:00:46):
Yeah, thank you so much.

Lisa Danylchuk (01:00:53):
Thanks so much for listening.
Now I'd love to hear from youwhat's one big goal you felt is
too big to conquer or to evenget started on.
What bolsters your confidencein your body, in yourself, and
how has your relationship toactivity, food or your body
evolved over time?
Share your answers and what'sbeen healing for you in the

(01:01:14):
comments below on YouTube, orfind me on Instagram at
HowWeCanHeal.
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(01:01:36):
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Before we wrap up for today.
I want to be clear that thispodcast isn't offering

(01:01:56):
prescriptions.
It's not advice, nor is it anykind of mental health treatment
or diagnosis.
Your decisions are in yourhands and I encourage you to
consult with any healthcareprofessionals you may need to
support you through your uniquepath of healing.
Also, everyone's opinion hereis their own and opinions can
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Guests share their thoughts,not that of the hosts or

(01:02:19):
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I'd like to thank our gueststoday, everyone who helped
support this podcast directlyand indirectly, especially Alex.
Thanks for taking care of thebabe and the fur babies while I
record.
Last but never least, I'd liketo give a special shout out to
my big brother, Matt, who passedaway in 2002.
He wrote this music and itmakes my heart so happy to share

(01:02:40):
it with you here.
Thank you.