Finding Healing–and Gobi–on the Trail with Ultra Marathon Runner Dion Leonard

Dion Leonard's life changed forever when a small dog joined him for 80 miles of a grueling 155-mile ultra-marathon across the Gobi Desert in China. Their story of connection, separation, and eventual reunion became a New York Times bestseller, but behind this heartwarming tale lies an equally powerful journey of personal healing.

Before becoming a world-class endurance athlete, Dion was a pack-a-day smoker who couldn't run around the block. His transformation began with a drunken bet about a half marathon, fueled by the same determination that would later help him complete some of the world's most challenging races, including the Triple Crown of 200s and Badwater 135.

Throughout our conversation, Dion speaks candidly about using ultra running as a mechanism to process his difficult childhood. Running became a space where anger could transform into achievement, where painful memories could be worked through with each mile. For years, he approached races with a punishing intensity, finding release at finish lines rather than enjoyment in the journey.

The most profound shift came when Dion faced a pivotal choice during that fateful race in China – continue pursuing the lead or turn back to help a small stray dog cross a water obstacle. His decision to choose connection over competition opened an unexpected chapter that would test his resilience in new ways, especially during the six-week search for Gobi after she went missing in a city of 3.5 million people.

Whether you're drawn to stories of human-animal bonds, fascinated by endurance sports, or seeking inspiration for your own healing journey, Dion's experiences remind us that transformation often begins with a single step – or as he would say in his distinctly Australian way, simply "having a go."

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Episode Transcript

Lisa Danylchuk (00:08):
W elcome back to the How We Can Heal Podcast!
Today, I'm excited to welcomeDion Leonard to the show.
Dion is an Australian enduranceathlete and ultra marathon
runner, as well as author of theNew York Times bestselling book
Finding Gobi, the memoir of hisexperience meeting Gobi, a
small dog who joined him runningalmost 80 miles on a 155-mile

(00:29):
race across the Gobi Desert inChina.
Today we talk about themotivation behind these
endurance events, the healing wecan find along the way, and
life lessons that we take fromour time with ourselves and
others out on the trail.
Dion shares how running led himto process his difficult
childhood and the impacts it hadon him, along with what sparked

(00:51):
him to change his lifestyle andhabits, to go from not being
able to run down the block torunning hundreds of miles across
the world's toughest landscapes.
Whether running hundreds ofmiles sounds ridiculous, fun, or
horrifying to you, I thinkyou'll relate to Dion's story
and take inspiration from hislife's journey, his relationship

(01:12):
with Gobi and the reflectionshe shares with us today.
There's wisdom, humor and heartin it all, so please join me in
welcoming Dion Leonard to theshow.
Awesome, well, Dion, welcome tothe How We Can Heal Podcast, I'm

(01:34):
soFunny story about how I found
out about your book Finding Gobi.
So my grandmother lived to beover.
Let's see, she was almost 105when she passed in 2020.
She lived in Shirley, LongIsland, and her neighbor, Vinny
who I feel like I can only say Idon't know if I can really do
the New York accent well, but hehas that classic Long Island
accent apparently told my dadabout your book.

(01:56):
My dad knows that my partnerand I met ultra running.
We're ultra runners.
So he's like, oh, Vinny told meabout this book, about this dog
who followed this guy throughthe desert.
So then I ended up getting thebook as a Christmas gift and
read it within a few days, was,of course, fell in love like
everyone does, shared it with mypartner and just a little shout

(02:17):
out to Vinny across the streetfrom my grandma back in the day
sharing that information.
And I don't know.
I'm gonna have to ask Vinnywhere he heard about you.

Dion Leonard (02:25):
Well, thanks for having me on the show and thanks
to Vinny as well forrecommending the book to you,
and that's what we found.
You know, the book's got thiscontinual journey on its own
because of word of mouth andrecommendations, and there's so
many great elements to theFinding Gobi book.
Whether you're an ultramarathonrunner or a dog lover, you just

(02:47):
love a good story that has lotsof drama and mystery and
intrigue in it.
It really is a book foreveryone to be able to read as
well.
So I'm really proud of that andI really love hearing stories
as to how people have connectedwith Gobi's story as well.

Lisa Danylchuk (03:04):
Yeah, I love it and I do have you said it's a
book for everyone.
I literally have the book herethat my dad gave me and that
Alex read, and then I have thekid's book for my daughter.
There's like an in-between one,I think, for, I don't know,
maybe fifth graders or something.

Dion Leonard (03:17):
Yeah, chapter book , which is huge across schools
in the United States and wevisit schools throughout the US
and at the moment we're on theWest Coast, but, yeah, we've
spent some time on the EastCoast as well and, yeah, love
sharing the story, reading thepicture book, sharing the
chapter book at schools and,yeah, they get to see Gobi as
well, so it's a greatpresentation which they enjoy.

Lisa Danylchuk (03:40):
Isn't it amazing what can happen when you decide
to put on your shoes, sign upfor a race, do something crazy
that you're not really sure ifyou can do?

Dion Leonard (03:51):
Yeah, and it doesn't matter what element of
the race is right, like whetherit's 5k or 250k or 500 miles,
like the races are gettinglonger and ridiculous now and I
think you know if you're pushingyourself at any of those sort
of limits at any degree.
I think that's prettyphenomenal and I get people

(04:12):
sometimes saying to me oh, Ijust run 5k and it's like, well,
that's awesome, you know.
Good on you for doing that.
And it doesn't mean justbecause I do longer races that
I'm any better than you are.
It's about our own individualjourney and what we learned from
that and how that affects us orchanges us going forward as
well

Lisa Danylchuk (04:31):
100%, 100% So there's so many things we
could talk about today I want tostart with.
You've told your story and yourhistory so many times.
I want to kind of start withwhere we are now and I'm curious
what's happening for you inyour ultra life?
Do you have any events comingup that you're training for?
What are you feeling reallypassionate about at this stage?

Dion Leonard (04:53):
I'm in a weird sort of part of my life with the
ultra running journey, I guess.
Sometimes I think I'm moretowards the end of it, of course
, than the beginning, and that'sreally because I find myself
feeling completed with a lot ofthe races that I always wanted
to run.
I've run races like Badwater135 in Death Valley, california.

(05:15):
I've run Western States, runthe Grand Slam of hundreds, I've
run the Triple Crown of 200sand ticked off many different
adventures along the way that Ialways wanted to do.
And the older now I've justturned 50 this year and the
older or the last couple ofyears I guess I've had less
desire to want to be out forthose long adventures.

(05:38):
Nothing was really burningambition-wise to push me to the
finish line anymore until lastyear when I went out to do the
Gobi 400 kilometer race, whichis a 250 mile non-stop race
across the Gobi.
So you know, self-navigating,self-sufficient, self-reliant
race, which really was thebiggest challenge that I'd put

(06:01):
myself through.
Yes, I've run the 200 mileraces in the US, but you have
crew, you have checkpoints wherethey serve you quesadillas and
burgers and hot dogs.
There's a route that's marked.
Of course it's still 200 miles,it's a long way.
But this race really threw meout there and it really put me
up against the limits as towhether I could finish the race.

(06:23):
And that was exciting because Ifelt something still in the
basement.
Maybe there's something stillleft in me and I'm still trying
to work out what's next.
I'm hoping to go back to theGobi Desert Race again in
October, but I'm still trying tofigure out what else I might do
before t hen as well.

(06:45):
So much I love, so much aboutwhat you're saying.
I've always said to people whosay, oh my God, you're running
how far, and I don't do themultiple hundreds.
I I signed up for one 100 milerace, met my partner Alex at it
and that's been it.
Like I've done a hundred Ks, 50milers, 50 Ks you know multiple
day stage races and things butyou have to want it.

(07:06):
I always tell people like Whoa,you ran that far, whatever the
distances and whoever the personis, I'm like you.
Just you have to want it.
There has to be something in youthat goes oh, maybe I could do
that.
I kind of want to see if I cando that.
I kind of want to.
What would that be like?
You have to have a curiosity ora passion or something stirring
internally.
So I feel like you're speakingto that and being really honest

(07:29):
with yourself, not just, oh well, I did this, so I have to do
that.
But ooh, 200 mile triple crownOoh, that sounds fun.
Okay, I did that now.
And there are some races whereyou want to go back.
You just build a habit of itand then at a certain point
you're like okay, maybe I don'tneed to do that one next year,
this time.
So I think being honest withyourself and your body and your

(07:49):
soul of like what's justinteresting for whatever nth
reason that we can't fullydescribe, is really important in
this.
I think it's a good place to get to in your own
journey with everything, withlife as well, and just being
happy and feeling that you'vecompleted some really great
things and sort of rememberingback on those achievements and

(08:11):
events as well.
Sometimes you can just finish arace and then move on to the
next one and not even reallytake the time to think about how
much work and effort there wasfor you to get to that finish
line in the first place.
And I actually just came backfrom Panama.
I was there last week and onSaturday I started a 100 mile
race.
It was actually Friday night atsix o'clock in the night and I

(08:35):
was meant to do 100 miles.
I got to about the 100 kilometermark was just over 100 k's and
it was one o'clock in theafternoon and I'd been through
the jungles of this Panamanianforest in knee-deep mud and
water and pouring down rain andI'd had a great adventure.
But I'd also had enough and Igot to the 100 kilometer point

(08:57):
and I was like I'm gonna finishhere.
There was a small town there.
It was uh, it was a great pointto get out and I was like
really happy with it.
It's like I mean, I did 100kilometers in this amazing
environment that you'd never ina million years go and see the
jungle that I just saw.
There's no way, as a tourist,you'd ever find it, you know.
But I was happy with that.

(09:19):
It was like I think you canflip things around, is I guess
what I'm trying to say is I justran 65 miles.
Yes, what a great training runand I had fun doing it.
And instead of thinking, oh, Ididn't finish the hundred mile
race that I set out to do, it'slike that's fine, it's not my A
race, it's not the biggest thingin the world.
I'm building towards going backto the Gobi and running that

(09:43):
better than I ran last year andI'm in a really good place.

Lisa Danylchuk (09:48):
I love this too.
I've had that experience.
So Alex and I Alex my partnerwe met at Rio de Lago at mile 37
.
He washed my feet it's a funstory and I was like I wonder if
I'll ever see that guy again.
Here we are 10 years later witha kid and two dogs.
So, anyhow, we ran a racetogether maybe a year into our
relationship Castle Peak, 100kout here in California in the

(10:13):
Lake Tahoe Mountains, and I hadreally been curious about that
race.
The first year they had it Ialmost signed up, something got
in the way.
And then it was maybe two yearslater and we're out there on
the trail, we start holdinghands.
People are laughing at us.
That's not going to last.
You're not going to hold handsfor a hundred K.
Anyway, we ran together thewhole race.
We had been doing a lot of, wewere training and doing a lot of
stuff together that summer andmaybe 20 miles in I'm like, oh,

(10:35):
I've been trying not to sayanything, but it's really hard
Cause we're just running next toeach other and it kind of, to
be honest, I was like you know,babe, I don't know why, I'm just
not really feeling it today,like maybe you want to go ahead,
or I'm just, I don't know,there's something, something
about it, like.
And he's like, oh my God, metoo.
I didn't want to say anythingCause I didn't want to pull you
down.
And so we're at the top of thisclimb and, you know, it's

(10:56):
beautiful out and we're havingfun.
We see people, we know, butjust our bodies probably still
recovering from the 50 miler wehad done right before that, but
just like not feeling it.
And so we're like you want tojust like go down to the next
aid station and go hang out bythe lake for the rest of the day
.
We're like, yeah, that soundsgreat.
We both perk up full of energyall of a sudden, right.
So we run down the hill to theaid station and we clock in and

(11:18):
we're like, okay, you know,we're actually going to finish
here, just like you just said,we're going to finish here.
And they're like, why, what'swrong?
We're like we just we're notfeeling it.
Today.
We're going to go sit by thelake and have a sandwich.
Uh, I don't, I mean, I'm goingto have to take your bib.
Yeah, that's fine, we were justso okay with it.
And, exactly the way you justdescribed, we just ran a

(11:40):
marathon.
By the time we got to thebottom of the hill, we had done
a marathon before noon on arandom Saturday in the summer
and it was pretty and we enjoyedit and we felt good and we
wanted to go rest and swiminstead and that felt totally
good and normal to us.
And there's sometimes a mindsetbecause a lot of these
experiences are framed as acompetition and they are
competitions and people win themthat we think, well, you can't

(12:03):
just have those days whereyou're like that's enough, and I
think that does us a disservicebecause it can make us just go
into this unnecessary sufferingelement and then we don't even.
Then we kind of like trample outthat spark of Ooh, I'm really
excited about this, weover-train or we burn out, like
all those things.
So I love that this is a wisdomthat's coming from you that you

(12:25):
can share, especially with allthe feats you've accomplished.
Right To have that knowing andto have that clarity.
I feel like not everyone getsthat, or some people get it by
going the opposite way and going, oops, maybe I should have just
tapped out on that one.
Yeah, or I could have keptpushing and finished and, uh,

(12:47):
you know, dragged myself throughit and but it was a really good
just point to say no, I'm, I'mcomplete with this.
This is fine.
I've, I've had fun and there'snothing wrong with me.
I'm just yeah, that's, that'smy day done.
Thanks, I'm going to dosomething else this afternoon
too, so yeah.
Perfect.
I hope this encourages people,not just in running but in other
things.
When you have that intuitivesense of completion, when you

(13:09):
have that sense of I could keepgoing in this, but at what cost
is this?
Diminishing returns?
Is this not really aligned withmy goals?
Like, okay, maybe make adifferent plan, then maybe do
something that actually feelsjoyful or supportive or helpful.
So you've run a ton ofdifferent races.
I'm wondering and you mentionedthat moment of integration like
that space and time after, toactually reflect on what you've

(13:31):
done to I don't know, maybelearn some lessons or just
appreciate the fact that ithappened right and let that
settle into your cells.
If you could repeat one racefrom beginning to end, that
you've been through – forwhatever reason, maybe it's just
the joy of it– just there-experiencing of it more than

(13:52):
anything, what would it be?

Dion Leonard (13:55):
Well, I think the two.
There's three real big racesthat probably changed, had a
step change in some part of wayof my life.
And the first, I think you know, is always the first time you
run a hundred miles.
You're like wow, that'sincredible, it's a big push and
it's a difficult achievement toget to the end of your first 100

(14:18):
.
And mine was touch and go.
It was actually called theMount Galagong 100.
It was held in China, in theprovince up in the northwest
part of the country, and I wasout there with my Finding Gobi
story at the time, went to dothis 100-mile race and, yeah,
found myself about halfwaythrough just contemplating

(14:40):
whether I was going to get tothe finish line or not.
Pushed and, pushed and pushed,got, you know, down in the dumps
about it, thought aboutquitting a bunch of times, but
finally, like, managed to crawlover the finish line and feel
that sense of achievement likenothing else before.
And for me, finishing thatfirst hundred really gave me

(15:01):
this sort of belief that I couldachieve more and it really sort
of that sparked me doing acouple of more hundreds before.
Then I wanted to try and pushmyself into the 200 mile range.
And again, the probably nextbig race that I had from that
moment was the Bigfoot 200 inWashington State, around Mount

(15:22):
St Helens and the beautifulCascade Mountains.
And when I got to that race Ididn't have crew, I didn't have
paces and I wasn't sure if Icould finish 200 miles.
I mean, when you go to do 200miles you're even more unsure
about yourself.
It's a heck of a long way.
I think there's 40-odd thousandfeet of climbing in that race.

(15:44):
It's single track, it's gotblowdowns, you're through a
brush that you're pushingthrough.
It can be raining and cold, andthat's not my bag.
Like I, I love the heat, andthe hotter there is the better.
So when I signed up to thetriple crown, I'd not only
signed up to bigfoot but ofcourse tahoe and moab 240 as

(16:05):
well.
So now I'm at bigfoot thinkingcan I do one, let alone three?
And that was the big sort ofpush for me throughout the.
I think it took me 80 hours todo that race and lots of
blisters and lots of momentsagain like not knowing if I was
going to make it to the finishline or not.
But pushing and believing inmyself has really been a

(16:27):
strength that I've had for sinceI was a young boy, left home at
a very early age, had adifficult, depressive childhood,
and grew up pretty quick, andso my drive and determination,
or my wife calls it stubbornness, really was something that I
used to my advantage at thatrace at Bigfoot, to cross the

(16:49):
finish line, and again I justhad this sort of mind-blowing
moment where, holy heck, likewhat else can I achieve?
And I'd found that in the 100mile right, the first 100.
This 200 mile race, though, wasjust like an explosion in my
mind of what else is out there,and that led to me then, you
know, going on to do manydifferent adventures and races

(17:12):
all around the world andbelieving in myself, not only in
races but in life as well, andtaking that positivity and
feeling like my brain set andmindset had changed so much, I
suddenly started thinking I cando this, I can do that, never
not sort of saying no as much ornot doubting yourself.
So they were the two real bigones, and then the third race

(17:36):
that I always think of, whichwas a bit of a changing moment
for me was the Leadville 100bike race and I did the Leadman
series, which includes running abunch of races in Leadville,
Colorado, 10,000 feet ofelevation.
But also as part of the seriesyou have to ride the 100 mile
mountain bike race, which isknown as the highest and hardest

(17:58):
100 mile mountain bike race inthe United States.
I don't ride mountain bikeslike I'm not a bike rider in any
aspect, and the running race islike part of it.
They were difficult at altitudebut of course as a runner I
could tick a box on those andget them done.
The whole series really reliedon me finishing this bike race

(18:20):
to be able to, you know, go on,complete the ledman series.
And during the first 50 milesof the race I find myself like
at the back of the pack and upagainst the cutoffs and not
knowing if I'm going to make itto the finish line at all, like
I'm just too slow, I'm not goodenough to be able to ride

(18:41):
anywhere near with the rest ofthe riders there, and this was a
moment like where I had to digdeep.
Like nowhere else before, as anultra runner, I'd found myself
running at the front, competing,winning races, being in the top
10 for most of the races thatI'd run.
Now I'm at the other end of thefield, really being humbled by

(19:02):
not sort of.
This isn't easy.
Now you know this is.
I'd found running the races hadbecome easy and I'd probably
become a bit stagnant with it.
Now I'm like having to findsomething inside of me that I
hadn't had to find for a very,very long time.
So I get through to about 80miles of the bike race and I'm

(19:23):
about an hour behind where Ishould be in terms of being able
to finish the race.
And I ask the people at thecheckpoint do you think there's
any chance at at all?
I can get there?
And they're like not really.
Like you're gonna have to belike one of the front running
riders, speed to be able tocover this last 20 miles
distance off.
And something in just side ofme just sort of lit a fire in me

(19:47):
, like them saying, no, there'sno way you can do it, you've
been too slow, like you'reterrible at this.
So I just thought I'm justgonna go for it and I pushed and
rode this bike as fast as Icould and on this single track I
felt like at times, like thebike was out on the side of me
and I'm just hanging on, youknow

Lisa Danylchuk (20:04):
Like a cartoon

Dion Leonard (20:05):
Like a cartoon.
Yeah and uh, I get to the lastmile or so of the race and you
go up and it's known as theboulevard and they line the
streets especially for the youknow, back of the pack people.
And here I am like being pushedup the last part of the hill by
all these other people thereand they're yelling and
screaming me on.

(20:25):
There's like a minute to finishthis last sort of part of the
mile to to get to the end of theledman series, basically.
And uh, yeah, I'm doing yelledand screamed in and I've got
like tears running down my faceand I finished the race with 11
seconds.

Lisa Danylchuk (20:44):
Oh my gosh.
.
.

Dion Leonard (20:46):
But it was done and it was like just the
humbling experience of it allreally was just incredible, you
know, and even just telling thatstory it's the story I get the
most sort of thoughts back of isjust like wow, you know how
incredible it was to dosomething that you can't do

(21:07):
again, you know, and that wasexciting for me as well.

Lisa Danylchuk (21:11):
I get the chills just hearing that.
That is so epic and sosatisfying, right, because I've
been at those races and I'vebeen that person cheering at the
end with people.
And I've been there when theydon't make it by three seconds.
I've been there when they makethe cutoff by seconds and it's a
different experience.
Both of them are very powerfuland I always have this little

(21:32):
soapbox I get on with my partner.
I'm always like why are we soarbitrary with seconds?
Like the person that came inthree seconds after should get
just as much reward and dopaminefor finishing.
But you know, we, for whateverreason, there's a cutoff time,
but something about that and thepeople at the at the 80 mile
mark saying, oh, I don't know,there's no way.
You're kind of like lit a fireand then here you are digging

(21:55):
deeper and deeper than you havefor hundreds and hundreds of
miles of running to pull up fromthe back of the pack, have that
different experience.
I mean it's so, I'd imagine.
In some ways it's humbling andin other ways it's so inspiring
because you found that maybe Ican do this question right.

Dion Leonard (22:13):
It gave me some sort of more appreciation for
going to the races that I had onafter that as well and not
taking it for granted as well,and maybe starting to experience
more of the race for what it islike as a competitor in ultra
running.
You know previously like Iwould just go there.
Winning was everything, withthat real competitive driven

(22:35):
mentality of like I wouldn'teven look around or, you know, I
would very quickly.
So I think I started to maybeexperience the mountains or the
people and the why sort ofchanged, I guess, from that
moment, which was neat for me aswell.

Lisa Danylchuk (22:50):
So powerful.
And again because you signed upfor something that seemed crazy
, that you weren't sure youcould do, because you got on a
mountain bike the first time Isent, my friend got me to sign
up for a Ironman.
That never happened because of2020, it got canceled in the
pandemic but I ended up doing ahalf in preparation for it.
And the first time I did atriathlon, I went to go to the

(23:10):
transition area and I put on myhat to get on my bike, because I
was just so used to like, oh, Ihave a hat in my drop bag and
then I'm trying to put my helmeton on top.
I was like this no, at least Iwas just laughing at myself.
Literally that same race, Dion,I did not know how to change the
gears in my bike.
Yeah, I was doing an Olympictri and I did not know how to
change the gears of my bike andI did the whole bike race in the

(23:33):
hardest gear.
I was like walking my bike upthe last bit of the hill.
People are like why don't youjust slow down, change your gear
?
I was like I don't know.
So I think there's something sobeautiful about that humbling,
trying something new.
You did that in this.
You signed up for this hugechallenge with something that
was not in your wheelhouse.
And then here you are tellingme like this is one of the

(23:53):
memories, this is one of themost powerful things that your
mind goes back to that if youcould redo it, re-experience it,
you would right.

Dion Leonard (24:01):
Yeah, although once was enough on the bike.

Lisa Danylchuk (24:05):
You're not signing up for it again, but
there's something special aboutit.
You also mentioned somethingearlier that I want to pick up
on this element of healing thatcan come through these types of
events, and it's not ultrarunning or even biking for
everyone.
It's different things anddifferent ways we can challenge
ourselves and grow.
But you talked about movingthrough the doubt or the

(24:26):
question of like I can't do this, can I do this?
I don't know, and reconcilingthat and then also contrasting
that with your upbringing andthings you went through that
didn't feel good.
So I'm wondering how you woulddescribe, as you sit here today,
how has your experiences insports and ultra running, how
have they felt healing for you?

Dion Leonard (24:48):
Yeah, ultra running has been a really good
part of my life for that purposehas been a really good part of
my life for that purpose.
I mean, I joke and I use theword joke loosely like I don't
really like ultra running.
It's maybe coming towards menow a little bit more.
I'm appreciating, as Iexplained, but when I first

(25:10):
started running these races andit was multi-stage races to
begin with and then moving intothe 100 mile races like I didn't
really find an element ofparticular joy there until I'd
finished the race.
So you know, training I don'tfind fun.
Or going to the races andpushing and trying to be at the
front trying to win them, like Ididn't find that fun and I

(25:31):
think some of that was because Iwas going to these races, using
them to really push myself ashard as I can to really maybe in
a way like I guess, belt myselfup, like really punish myself
for the things that had happenedto me when I was younger and
that sort of I was using, likemy childhood and those early

(25:54):
years of my life where life wasreally quite, you know,
depressive and destructive andabusive as a way, like ultra
running felt a little bit like Ican beat myself up about this
and push through at the sametime and maybe use some of that
negative energy to be at a levelwhere I probably wouldn't have

(26:15):
been without that, and so Ireally found myself digging
deeper than I think I would havedone without that experience as
a child, and sometimes I'd berunning these races, thinking my
childhood was difficult, moredifficult than this race, you
know.

Lisa Danylchuk (26:29):
Yeah yeah.
.
.

Dion Leonard (26:30):
Probably pushing myself at a level that was too
much.
But when I get to the finishline, I'd find myself feeling
like a sense of achievement likeI hadn't felt before.
So whilst doing the race, I'dfelt like really angry as a
runner and like using all thememories and the thoughts and
the people that would have donethings to me over the years or

(26:52):
said things to me like thatwould really make me an angry
sort of runner.
When I get to the finish line,I'd feel like maybe I've just
inched a little bit furtherforward as to being able to
forget about that stuff.
Unfortunately, it was probablyinching for quite a long time
rather than a big step.
Change of saying I still couldnever just get out of this

(27:14):
mindset of life.
It was a tough part of my life,from the age of 10 years old
onwards into my early 20s.
So, yeah, some of that has beenfuel for the fire and ultra
running has been a really bigpart of helping me transition
through that.
I mean, as the story with Gobiwas as well.

Lisa Danylchuk (27:36):
Yeah, we can fall into the trap of physical
health equals mental health, andI'm someone who fully believes
in investing in the physiologyas a platform.
Right, because if you arehungry, you might get angry.
Or if you haven't slept, otherthings feel hard, but we can
think.
Or if you haven't slept, otherthings feel hard but we can
think oh, the person winning,they have it all figured out, or

(27:57):
that means healthy, and I thinksometimes we're using fuel for
patterns that aren't actuallyhealthy in order to win, and I
don't know if that's what'shappening for you.
Makes me think of it when youdescribe that.
But I also think about how, forme personally, I can be really

(28:17):
competitive but I'm not inrunning because I just I'm like
this is the weekend I paid forthis.
I'm a solid mid packer.
I don't really look at my stats.
I used to not even wear agarment.
My partner got me into wearinghis old garment now, so that
happens, but I don't want totrack it.
I just want to go out and havefun and I've always loved.
I'm a therapist, right, like theemotional processing of it.

(28:39):
I'm just out on the trail, I'mthinking about stuff.
I remember something that'sannoying or sticky, or there's
shame or there's anger and I canbe like or or breathe it out or
take some time to just let itsort of cycle through me and my
body.
And I find that running maybebecause it's this meditative
back and forth, right foot, left, foot in, breath, out, breath

(28:59):
can help us just process stuffright, just like going for a
walk for some years go for awalk in nature and there's all
these research studies thatthat's so good for us.
So one of the things I hear isthis like slow inching of
processing the negativity andthe things that you've been
through and the abuse andsometimes we, especially with

(29:21):
anger, which sometimes we call anegative emotion we need to be
able to have space where we canmove through it constructively.
So I hear this space I mean alot of space in the Gobi Desert,
right, where you can be withwhatever's coming up, whatever
memory happens to come to mind,for whatever reason, whatever
person, whatever they said.
You can notice your reactionsto that.

(29:42):
If you're angry, especially likethose more activating memories,
they can give us energy andfuel and we can run through it
and at a certain point like thatsame one's not coming up
anymore, right, something elseand at a certain point, like
that same one's not coming upanymore, right, something else,
and so you just inching throughso that I think is actually
really healthy, right, and tothen get to the finish and have
this other realization of likewow, that was hard and I did it,

(30:05):
and I can do it.
Or, oh my God, I just came inthe first place or I'm on the
podium.
What's happening here, likethat, I feel like, is there's so
many ways that that canreinforce a healthy sense of
identity, healthy processing oftrauma, all that stuff.
And I don't think people talkabout that enough.
In ultra-retin-E, I think we'refixated on like what gel do you

(30:25):
use?
And I'm like, okay, I want toknow what you like to eat, but I
do feel like there's a depth toit in being with yourself and
whatever comes up when thingsare hard, whatever things you
tell yourself, other people toldyou and having time and space

(30:48):
and support right, becausethere's someone at the aid
station and someone's carryingyour shoes to the 30 mile mark
or whatever to be able to dothat.
I think that's something reallybeautiful about ultra running.

Dion Leonard (31:01):
I agree, and that's been part of my journey
as in in the sort of learningprocess as well.
Like, many of the races I woulddo early on were stage races, so
155 mile races across thedesert, maybe for seven days,
but you're carrying your ownfood and water.
So they were more self-reliant,which was probably really good

(31:21):
for me because that's what Iwanted to do, like I didn't need
the help or support of others,like I was still that sort of
lone wolf sort of attitude inperson and still working it out
in my own head like what I wasdoing, the running for and and
and, as we talked about then thereasons why.
And then when I started to getinto more maybe hundreds and

(31:44):
some of the two hundreds andsome of the other events that
I've been at then I've startedto have crew and support and
people there and realized youknow, this is more of a team
sport than you actually think tobegin with and it's great to be
able to share these adventureswith other people as well and
that's, you know, been prettycool part of it as well.

Lisa Danylchuk (32:06):
Yeah, I've heard people say like, oh, you're
running this far, what are yourunning from?
I'm like, no, maybe not.
What are we running towards?
What are we running through?
Who are we running with?
I appreciate the concept ofrunning as a team sport and and
the transition from I got it I'mgoing to do it all myself to.
Actually, this feels kind ofnice, yeah, Because I've been

(32:28):
there too, signing up for things.
I'm like I just don't want totell anybody, Like it's just my
little secret and for whateverreason, right, you just want to
protect it or you just want yourspace.
So you're like I'm just goingto do it by myself.
So a few more questions I havefor you.
I know you've talked a lotabout finding Gobi on the trail
and you've told that story amillion times.
I'm curious what's the lifelike with Gobi these days?

(32:52):
Is he running around with youor do you guys go out on family
runs?
What does that look?

Dion Leonard (32:56):
like Well, she's 10 years old now.
Of course, we don't exactlyknow how old she is.
She might be older.
She's fit and healthy and stilllikes to go walking and running
, but a lot less running than,of course, the adventure across
the desert in China.

Lisa Danylchuk (33:15):
I mean for people who haven't heard that
story briefly, how many miles.
She found you at the beginningof the race or early in the race
and followed you for how manymiles.

Dion Leonard (33:23):
Well, uh well, it's a six day, seven days, uh,
seven day race, 155 miles long.
She joins me on day two, uh,but she joined a couple of
American runners on day one ofthe race.
She ends up being there for thewhole seven days of the event.
She runs about 80 miles, fourstages of the race.
Uh, she's a little chihuahuashih tzu mix, so, uh, you know

(33:47):
it's incredible feet,temperatures around 125 degrees.
Um, this dog just, yeah, cameout of nowhere, started running
with the american runners on dayone.
On day two she sort of startsrunning with me and, yeah, we
form this bond and friendshipthroughout the week.
That is is unbreakable.

(34:08):
And at one point I had to decidewhether to take the lead of the
race or go back and help thisdog across this water crossing
that she can't cross on her own,and I decided to go back and
help the dog.
And it goes against everythingI'm there to do.
I'm a sponsored athlete at thispoint.
I'm there to win the race.
I'm I'm in a really goodposition to take the lead at

(34:30):
this point, but I find myselfgoing back to help this dog and
it's a life-changing moment.
I go back through the waterfirst and second continue
running on and I pick this dogup and when I put her in my arms
I I really look at her for thefirst time, properly Like she
joined me the day before.
We'd run together 25 miles aday before.

(34:51):
But when I picked her up onthis day, day three, and had her
in my arms, like I could justsee the love this dog just had
for me like nothing else youknow before I mean happily
married and I get that from mywife but this dog just had it
like instantly.
And and then I saw myself in thedog, like this is stray dog in

(35:12):
the middle of the goby desert,you know the fourth largest
desert in the world.
And it's like what is she doingout here?
What is she surviving on?
Why is she joined this race?
Like, why has she chosen me outof all the 100 runners there?
And I see myself like straightdog boy on the streets, no
family, no support, trying toput myself through school.

(35:34):
You know difficult childhood.
Here we are, these two lostsouls, perhaps connected.
In this moment in the desert andas I carry across the water, I
become like this protector ofthis little dog and that's the
moment really when I start tofall in love with the dog and I
spend the rest of the race withher and you know we run other

(35:55):
stages of the race together andshe's always by my side for the
week and at the end of it Idecide that I want to bring her
home and at this point in mylife I'm living in Edinburgh, in
Scotland, and she can't get onthe plane to fly home with me
after the race because she needsto test it to make sure she
doesn't have any diseases, soshe has to stay in China and I

(36:18):
fly all the way back to the UKand someone's looking after her
in China and unfortunately shegoes missing in China and, yeah,
they ring me and tell me thatshe's on the streets of a city
of over three and a half millionpeople and they don't know
where she is.
They can't look for her and soheartbreaking yeah, so I, I'm,

(36:39):
I'm destroyed by that.
You know, I'm devastated, andespecially after everything we'd
been throughout in the desertand I had this great plan of her
coming to live with me and havethis wonderful new life that
was now destroyed that I, Idecided to fly back to china and
all the way back out to thiscity and and start looking for
her.
And yeah, it was.

(37:00):
It was just a phenomenaladventure in the desert and
moment that I just couldn't helpmyself be there to search for
her.
And we searched for six weeksshe was missing and, uh, yeah,
we finally find her in the cityand, um, it was like meant to be

(37:20):
, you know, not only once in thedesert, but the second time in,
against all odds, I mean, uhyeah I.
I could never have imaginedgoing back through the water to
pick her up, just where thewhole journey would be.
And now we live in the us.
Uh, goby's traveled to 34different states.
We're currently in las vegas uh, it's um nevada reading week,

(37:44):
uh, week.
It's a big month for us, themonth of March in Las Vegas, so
we're doing lots of differentevents around the city as well.
And, yeah, it changed our lifeforever.
Gobi's gone on to meet theroyal family, presidents, movie
stars, rock stars.

Lisa Danylchuk (38:00):
Wow nice.

Dion Leonard (38:02):
I love saying it because it's like one act of
kindness changes my life forever.
And it's a simple act, right,and it doesn't cost anything to
go back and help the dog carryacross the water.
My goal is to get across thewater as quick as I can put it
back down catch first and second.
But of course, the changehappens as we cross the water
together and moving on forwards.

(38:22):
So when I share that with kidsespecially, you know, at schools
with the chapter book or thepicture book, it's like what
would you do?
Would you go back and help thedog or would you take the lead
of the race?
And 99.9% of people are likeI'd go and help the dog too.
You know, and it's a point oflike realisation for me winning

(38:42):
isn't everything and winningreally isn't that important.
And that was a big moment forme and it was a real
life-changing moment.
I spoke about those three otherraces earlier where I felt some
big change.
Well, of course, this was thebiggest of them all.

Lisa Danylchuk (38:58):
Yeah, so profound, so much depth, and
it's like another ultra to tryto get Gobi back into your care,
right, like navigating thesesystems and filling out forms
and getting help.
And then Gobi goes missing.
And Gobi's missing for sixweeks.
And it's like the ups and thedowns and the challenges and the
persistence and showing up andbelieving, and all based on that

(39:19):
moment of connection and thatdecision to go back.
Because if you hadn't turnedaround, you wouldn't have that
moment, you wouldn't have thatpowerful connection that you
still have today.
You carry around to schools allaround Las Vegas and meet movie
stars and presidents, and Imean it's changed your life in
such a profound way, based on,oh, who's this dog on my ankles?

(39:40):
And then, ooh, we ran somemiles together and and go, goby
can't get across the waterwithout me.

Dion Leonard (39:45):
I gotta go back, I gotta, I gotta show up for my
people, or my dog in this caseand the, the element of the sort
of search afterwards, like theteam, the, the teamwork of these
people, hundreds of peoplesearching for goby, looking for
her.
They don't know me, they'venever seen the dog before, yet
all of these people cometogether to help me find her.

(40:07):
And I mean, I didn't find her,that's for sure Thankfully to
all the people that came andhelped, and that was phenomenal.
You know, that was againanother sort of moment in my
life where I could feel the lovefrom people.
Like I'm, I'd go to those stageraces and never really let
anyone in, and this was a momentwhere I had to let people in to

(40:31):
to find Gobi right.
And so, again, you know,there's been a lot of transition
through the sport and throughthis experience in particular,
which has helped me as well.

Lisa Danylchuk (40:43):
Yeah.
So what is it like these days?
Do you have moments of awe ofthe journey that you've been on
with Gobi?
What's it like?
Just, I think it's you, is itLucha?
Is that how you pronounce?

Dion Leonard (40:55):
Lucha yeah.

Lisa Danylchuk (40:55):
Lucha and Gobi.
And is it Laura, your cat?

Dion Leonard (40:59):
yes, unfortunately , laura the cat is no longer
with us.
Oh yeah, she lived till the ageof 18.
She had a fantastic life.
She's got her own book out nowas well, called Lara the runaway
cat.
She, she was alive for the forthe launch of that.
The book's been out a couple ofyears now, uh.
So, yeah, phenomenal to think.

(41:20):
You know where the journey oflife can take you, and I think
that's one of the biggestelements when I go and speak at.
Well, one of the great speakingevents that I was invited to
was the US Air Force Academy inColorado Springs, so I spoke in
front of about two and a halfthousand people there and it was
about my life journey and justwhere life can take you.

(41:44):
That like an ultra marathon,right at points, you're running
along, you're running well,you're doing seven minute, eight
minute miles, you're knockingout the pace.
You're listening to some musicor you're loving the sounds of
the birds and you're like thisis easy.
Five miles later you're on yourhaunches, vomiting or trying to
go up a climb.
That just goes on forever andyou think, god, this is terrible

(42:06):
.
Why am I here questioning lifedecisions?
Right, so it's that rollercoaster ride and that was.
That's my life journey and Ilove sharing that because it's
like you just never know wherelife can take you as well, you
know, and it's like thesesliding door moments that happen
along the way.
In which way do you take them?
And one of the best pieces of, Iguess, feedback on my journey

(42:31):
was my grade eight Englishteacher emailed us about a year
or so ago and she said I'mreally really, I read the book
and I'm really sorry to hearabout your childhood.
And she said I knew, I knewthere was something about you,
but I never asked and I shouldhave asked and I wish I'd have
done more as a teacher and as aperson.

(42:53):
And she was really incrediblysad and sorry about that.
But she was just like I justadmire your drive and
determination and will to wantto make something of yourself
even though you had absolutelynothing in life, and you've had
this amazing journey with thisstory with Gobi, and I loved

(43:14):
reading the book.
And then the last line of theemail was along the lines of
like plus, the English in thebook was really good too.

Lisa Danylchuk (43:21):
I was wondering about that she's like from
English teacher great job A plus.

Dion Leonard (43:28):
I think that must be something that, um, yeah, for
her to have seen me, of course.
Uh, what?
We're talking 40 years, notjust not quite, but 38 years ago
or something.
It would have been, um, yeah tonow this story, um, you know
that that that shows you justwhere life can take you as well.

(43:48):
Yeah, so it's a.
It's a rewarding journey, eventhough at times it can be a hell
of a tough journey too.

Lisa Danylchuk (43:54):
Yeah.
So what would you say tosomeone who's listening now,
who's thinking something tothemselves, like, oh yeah, this
guy can do it.
You know and they might makeassumptions that you ran track
in high school or somethingYou've always been athletic or
like, oh, but I can't.
Or oh, that sounds so crazy, Ifeel so stuck to the couch.

(44:15):
This could never be me.
What would you say to thatperson?

Dion Leonard (44:19):
Well, in my early twenties I was a pack aday,
smoker, heavy drinker, big eater.
I was about 250 pounds and Iwas never the ultra runner that
I became and that all reallyturned around Like I was leading
myself to an early grave untilI made a bet with a friend one
night as to who could run thehalf marathon distance the

(44:40):
fastest, and we were drunk whenwe made this bet.
It was his 30th birthday party.
It was like one, two o'clock inthe morning when he was telling
everyone that he'd run thishalf marathon the year before
and just over three months timehe was going to run it again.
Now I was a fit kid, like Iplayed a lot of sport at school,

(45:02):
but when I became inralia youcan drink at 18 and I was doing
it at 14, I think.
So I, you know, had some badvices there and uh.
But I always thought in my headI was still, you know, fit or I
was.
I've got this competitivespirit right.
So now my friend and I, havingthis conversation, I'm like, oh,

(45:22):
I could run that marathon race,like probably belittling him, a
little sort of say, ah, that'snothing, it doesn't sound that
far.
I could do that, and there was abunch of people listening to us
have this conversation.
So they started to laugh, likeyou know, slapping their knees
and rolling around on the groundlaughing, saying there's no way
you could run for a bus, letalone 13.11 miles.

(45:43):
And it ticked something in me,like you know people telling me
I couldn't, wasn't going to beanything in life, was never
going to make it, I'm a loser,like.
So I thought, yeah, I can dothis, I bet you.
I said Dan.
I said I bet you I can do this,but unfortunately I kept
talking.
I had so much to drink.
I said I bet you I can do this,dan, I'll even give you five
minutes head start.

Lisa Danylchuk (46:03):
Whoa Confidence.

Dion Leonard (46:06):
We made this agreement that the loser had to
take the other couple out fordinner at this expensive
restaurant and at the time wewere living in Manchester, in
England, so where all theManchester United soccer players
go.
It was going to be a big award,like a big meal, like a big win
If you won.
I was like, oh yeah, this isgreat.

(46:27):
Anyway, I go home, I wake upthe next morning.
I'd completely forgotten aboutthe bet until Lucia said to me
hey, you made this dumb bet withDan last night.
You're going to beat him in ahalf marathon race.
And I was like, oh yeah, I did,didn't I?
And I was like and then allthose people laughing at me came
back to my mind as well and Ithought I wonder how far I can

(46:47):
run.
So later that day I tried torun around the block and I I
couldn't run to the first corner, you know, without being out of
breath and struggling.
And by the time I got aroundthe block I was like exhausted
and it was like wow, I am reallyunfit.
There's no way I could run 13.1miles.
But what I did want to do wassee if I could prepare a little

(47:10):
bit.
Tomorrow I'd try the blockagain.
Right the next day I started torun further.
A week or two later I was like,running a mile, it, you know,
kept transforming like suddenlyI was running five or six miles
and dan would message and say,hey, have you done any training
for this race?
And I'd be like, no, I haven'teven got out of the pub yet.
You know, I'm still in the bar.
I was telling him a lie, like,but secretly, using that energy

(47:37):
of those people laughing at melike it had dug something up and
of course, the childhood stuff.
I was like, oh wow, this isreally pushing me to want to
prove to these people I can beathim.
Fast forward to the race day.
He sees me for the first timesince we'd made the bet, like
three and a half months earlier.
His jaw drops.
He sees I've lost a lot ofweight and he knows the race is

(47:59):
on.
I know I have to beat him byfive minutes.
So when the gun goes off tostart the race, I push as hard
as I can and I run with danalways behind me, but I don't
know, of course, where he isthroughout the race.
I get to the finish line in atime of like one hour 28 and, uh
, I'm like I have no idea whatthat means, right?

(48:19):
But all I know is I have tobeat dan by five minutes.
So I'm like sitting therewatching the watch like go by
three minutes, four minutes Ithink Lucia was there at the
race too.
She finishes and then the fiveminutes goes past.
Dan hasn't finished at thispoint, so I'd beaten Dan and I
was ecstatic about that becausewe're going to that fancy

(48:39):
restaurant for the bet, right?
But also, like for the veryfirst time that I could ever
remember, I felt good aboutmyself for achieving something.
And it didn't matter it was13.1 miles, it could have been
five kilometers, but I'd hadprobably the first mindset
change in a long time that maybeI could achieve more than I

(49:01):
could ever have thought ofbefore.
And I know that was the mostlongest answer ever to your
question.
But you can achieve much morethan you really think you can.
And that was for me, thegroundbreaking moment of
thinking hey, this running isactually maybe good for me and,
as I said, I don't even likerunning.

(49:21):
It's been this mechanism for meto be able to deal with a lot
of stuff in my life and maybeI'm just starting to like it now
.

Lisa Danylchuk (49:29):
But it sort of came into your life in these
different ways.
And Lucia is a pretty seriousathlete too, right, I mean, and
she loves running.

Dion Leonard (49:37):
She's positive running, you know, singing in
the mountains, Like you know,she's completely different to me
, but that that's a really goodbalance for us and I push her to
be more competitive, to want toget a bit more out of these
races and I'm a bit of astickler, I guess, for her, but
she also brings the better sideout of me too, which is a really

(50:00):
good balance.

Lisa Danylchuk (50:01):
Yeah, I was thinking and you're telling your
half marathon story about thefirst time I signed up for a
half marathon.
I went into this volunteeroffice for American Heart
Association and it's like aninfo session and I put down my
credit card and I signed up tofundraise and I walked back to
my car and I remember thinkingthat's really, I don't know if I
can do this.
Like 13.1 miles, I usually runthree.

(50:21):
Maybe I don't count my mileswhen I run them, maybe I don't
even know the longest distance,maybe I've even run that before.
But I didn't know and I thought, oh, my goodness, I don't know
if I can do this.
And then I did the training,ended up becoming a coach the
next season.
I remember meeting with peoplelike this partner.
I got in a meditation retreatand telling them and they're
like, oh, I could never do that.

(50:41):
I'm like, yeah, you can, yougot this, come on, no, you can
do it.
I was like you can rock it, youcan run, walk it.
People do it all the time.
Come sign up for the training,sign up for the training, did a
half marathon and just everyweekend adding another mile and

(51:03):
just like you, bodies are and,yes, there's seasons of life and
all of that.
But even for me, coming backpostpartum, it's like, oh, it's
humbling right.
Oh, if I haven't been running.
And then I go out I'm like, oh,this used to be so easy.
I used to like, oh, we did 20miles this weekend, no big deal.
And then I was like I did sixmiles.

(51:27):
Yay, it's a mindset shift shift.
But a little can turn into alot, actually faster than I
think we think.
Especially at the beginningwe're like, oh, that's far.
No, instead of oh that's far,maybe.
What's the first step?

Dion Leonard (51:35):
Dan likes to take a lot of the credit for my
journey, so he likes to take it.
And Lucia was sort of more uh,my next step, getting to my
first marathon as well.
She signed us up for a marathonto medoc, which is a race oh,
not a race, but a marathonacross, uh, the wine region in
france where you drink and eat.
You wave 26 miles, uh.

(51:55):
So yeah, she likes to say, well, I got you to the marathon and
the ultra marathons after thatas well, so, but yeah, I mean,
you just never know really whatyou can achieve.
And I think that for me, was abig part of uh taking up the
running and then moving on todifferent distances and kept
pushing.
And yeah, I think if anyone waslistening that wanted to try

(52:18):
something and doesn't need, itcould be learning a language, it
could be playing an instrument,right, I think it's like get
out there and have a go at seehow you go and surround yourself
with the right people, positivepeople and people that can help
you achieve those things aswell.

Lisa Danylchuk (52:33):
Yeah, that's a very Australian saying right,
have a go.

Dion Leonard (52:36):
Yeah, it is actually.

Lisa Danylchuk (52:38):
I love it.
Just have a go.
It's just, it's so simple, it'sso like light, like, oh, I'm
just going to have a go, it'sgoing to go see what happens.
So how can people connect withyou and follow your journey?
Meet Gobi.
Obviously, they can get thebook finding Gobi by Dion
Leonard.
There's, like I said, there's akid's book, there's a chapter
book and then the Laura book aswell.

(52:59):
I haven't read, but that's onmy list now.

Dion Leonard (53:03):
Yeah, I'm a findinggobycom.
Everything social media wise isat Finding Goby, where you'll
see, of course, lots of picturesand videos and reels of Goby
and information about anyupcoming events as well.
We have events at the moment inLas Vegas and then we have, I
think, some events in Sacramentoin June as well.
So yeah all around the WestCoast for the next few months at

(53:26):
least.
If anyone wants to follow moreof my actual ultra running side
on Facebook as Dion LeonardUltra Runner and share some of
my adventures on there as well.

Lisa Danylchuk (53:38):
And you also do motivational speaking right, or
if someone was interested inthat, would it be DionLeonardcom
.

Dion Leonard (53:43):
Yeah, dionleonardcom.
And yeah, one minute I'mtelling a picture book story to
children four or five years oldand the next I'm at a corporate
event sharing the life journeyas well.
So, yeah, it's a really blessedto be able to get out there and
meet people and share Gobi'sstory as well.

Lisa Danylchuk (54:03):
It sounds like a beautiful life.
I'm so grateful you've sharedit with us in all these ways and
I'm grateful that Gobi foundyou.
I know in the book you talkabout it feels like Gobi really
chose you right, like, hey, you,I'm coming with you, I'm still
coming with you, I'm still rightwith you.

Dion Leonard (54:25):
Look, if she could talk.
That's why I'd ask her as well,Like that'd be.
The first thing I'd ask wouldbe why me?
And yeah, it would be.
It'd be interesting tounderstand her answer as well.
Because it's yeah, did I findher or did she find me?
That's also another thing thatI often think.
But yeah, it's a greatpartnership, that's for sure,
and I get to hang out with herand my best friend every day,
and my wife too, so it's not toobad.

Lisa Danylchuk (54:45):
Yeah, it's a good life.
It's a good life.
Well, I encourage anyone whohasn't read the story.
I mean, I think these days wejust need reminders of moments
of inspiration, of things thatare possible.
Is there anything?
Obviously this story is plenty,but is there anything else in
general in life that you findthat brings you hope in moments
that are difficult?

Dion Leonard (55:01):
I think it's always.
I think what you touched onthere, isn't it, and a very much
connection with the story ofgoby is like we're really
incredible people and especiallycredible when we come together
for the right reasons and uh,what we can go out there and
achieve is remarkable, and Ithink that's something to to
keep in mind at times.
You know, there's oftentimeswhere I I think we can see the

(55:24):
bad, or there's lots of terriblepress out there, and it's like
we do lots of good thingstogether as human beings as well
, and, um, yeah, be kind others,be kind animals, and uh, I
think the the world's a betterplace, and I think that's why
goby's story doesn't have a timedate to it.
Like, not once have you said tome when did this story happen?

(55:44):
Like it's just a beautiful lovestory and it's a heartwarming,
inspiring story that has manydifferent people coming together
to give this dog a better home,and that's the beautiful part
of what we can all do togetherand achieving something great as
well.

Lisa Danylchuk (56:02):
And just any act of kindness and the opportunity
that that can bring and justsharing your story.
I mean, there's something assmall as you talked about your
coach telling you to count one,two, three on the trail and I
started doing that and I reallylike it.

Dion Leonard (56:15):
I'd still find myself doing that.

Lisa Danylchuk (56:16):
Yeah, detail that's like.
Is it life changing?
I like it, I use it, and it'slike you just happen to share
that in your story.
So I think, just doing thethings we do, sharing what our
heart's feeling you know whatwe're feeling called to and and
being open for that opportunityfor connection, for the
opportunity to extend a hand,literally or metaphorically I

(56:38):
think it's really beautiful.
So thank you again for beinghere today, for sharing this
journey with us and for allyou're doing.
I want to really acknowledge andhonor the transformation you've
been through.
I'm a trauma therapist.
I sit with people and workthrough hard things
professionally for a long timeand I have some context for like
what that really can mean andlook like and how difficult that

(56:58):
can be, and so I just want toacknowledge and honor that and
thank you for showing up on thetrail and doing that work when
you don't know what it is, andand following it forward and
sharing all the healing and allthe love that's come to you
through your journey with us.
I think that's that's kind oflike the highest hope in my mind
that we can all do is just takewhatever we've been through,
especially the really gnarlystuff, and in some way transmute

(57:20):
it and then like somehow it canturn into gold and we share it
right thanks, yeah, and that's,you know, a big part of the
reason why I love sharing thisstory, uh, with people of all
ages is to give hope that, yeah,you know, life is a journey.

Dion Leonard (57:37):
It's going to be lows, but there's lots of highs.
Like, let's hang out for thehighs a bit more often, you know
, believe in ourselves as well,and that's that's something that
I really enjoy doing.

Lisa Danylchuk (57:48):
Yeah, awesome.
Thank you so much, dion.
Thanks for being here today.

Dion Leonard (57:52):
Thanks, appreciate it.
It's been great talking withyou.
Likewise.

Lisa Danylchuk (58:00):
Thanks so much for listening.
My hope is that you walk awayfrom these episodes feeling
supported and, like you, have aplace to come to find the hope
and inspiration you need to takeyour next small step forward.
For more information andresources, please visit
howwecanhealcom.
There you'll find tons ofhelpful resources and the show
notes for each show.

(58:21):
Thanks for your messages,feedback and ideas about the
podcast.
I love hearing from you and Iso appreciate your support.
There are lots of ways you cansupport the show and I'm
grateful for every little bit oflove you share.
If you love the show, pleaseleave us a review on Apple,
spotify, audible or wherever youget your podcasts.

(58:41):
You can always visithowwecanhealcom backslash
podcast to share your thoughtsand ideas as well.
Before we wrap, I want to beclear that this podcast isn't
offering any prescriptions.
It's not advice or any kind ofdiagnosis.
Your decisions are in yourhands and we encourage you to
consult with any healthcareprofessionals you may need to

(59:03):
support you through your uniquepath of healing.
In addition, everyone's opinionon this show is their own and
opinions can change right.
Guests share their thoughts,not that of the host or sponsors
.
I'd also like to send just hugethanks to everyone who helps
support this podcast directlyand indirectly.

(59:23):
Alex, thanks for taking care ofthe babe and the fur babies
while I record.
Lastly, I'd like to give ashout out to my big brother,
matt, who passed away in 2002.
He wrote this music and itmakes my heart so happy to share
it with you here.
Thank you.