May 5, 2025 • 60 mins
This episode is sponsored by Ultrasignup, the leading marketplace for discovering, registering, and managing trail running events across the United States. With a mission to promote the spirit of trail running and outdoor adventure, UltraSignup hosts a diverse range of races and events. When you visit Ultrasignup.com you’ll find over 5000 events – about half of which are NOT ultra-distance. You’ll also find stories highlighting runners, race directors, training tips, running destinations, and the growth of the sport in their weekly newsletter and online magazine. Visit https://ultrasignup.com/ to explore the possibilities and plan your next adventure!
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Napa Wilderness Trail Runs kicks off the morning of May 17, 2025! Whether you're a seasoned trail runner, just starting out, or just want to come hang out in nature, there’s a place for you here. You might come out for the 10k fun run, 1/2 Marathon: 30k Scenic Trek , 50K Endurance Challenge, or 40 Mile Elevation Beast. Make it a weekend adventure by camping out under the stars & soaking up the energy and natural beauty. And if you’d rather not run but still want to be a part of the fun, you can volunteer! Register at: https://ultrasignup.com/register.aspx?did=116228
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Todd Glieden's life transformed forever when he was diagnosed with lymphoma, spending 90 days at Stanford Hospital undergoing intensive treatment. This experience became the catalyst that helped him discover his true self after years of feeling directionless. "I don't think I discovered myself until then," Todd reflects, describing how cancer pushed him to reevaluate everything.
The unexpected support he received during his illness revealed surprising truths about relationships. People he barely knew showed up with rides and meals, while some he considered close disappeared entirely. This pattern of finding strength in community would become the defining theme of Todd's recovery and subsequent life journey.
When Todd discovered trail running through a local group, everything changed. The shy, reserved person who once hesitated to approach strangers transformed into someone known and loved throughout the running community.
What makes Todd's story particularly powerful is how he's channeled his experiences into creating spaces for others to heal. As the owner of Bay Trail Runners, he organizes events that welcome participants of all abilities. His greatest joy comes from witnessing someone complete their first trail race or half marathon, knowing firsthand the transformative potential of these achievements. "To go out and give that experience to somebody else now in my life is a great feeling," he shares.
The trail running community offers something increasingly rare in modern life—unconditional support during life's hardest moments. Through shared adventures on mountain trails, Todd has built connections that transcend ordinary friendships. These relationships have sustained him through multiple health crises, proving that healing happens not just within medical facilities but within communities bound by shared passion and mutual care.
For anyone facing difficult circumstances or seeking a new beginning, Todd's message is simple yet profound: "Let people into your lives" and "try something." Whether it's walking around a lake or venturing onto a local trail, the first step toward healing often involves stepping outside—both literally and figuratively. Follow Todd's journey or join one of his events by connecting with him as Todd Run on social media, and discover for yourself how the trail might become your own path to healing.
Invite Todd out on a run here! https://www.instagram.com/iwo
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lisa Danylchuk (00:09):
I'm happy to share that this episode is
sponsored by Ultra Sign Up.
Ultra Sign Up is the leadingmarketplace for discovering,
registering and managing trailrunning events across the United
States.
I've personally been usingUltra Sign Up for over a decade
to find fun adventures, sign upfor events and share
opportunities to be activeoutdoors with friends.
(00:30):
With a mission to promote thespirit of trail running and
outdoor adventure, ultra Sign Uphosts a diverse range of races
and events.
When you visit ultrasignupcom,you'll find over 5,000 events,
about half of which are notultra distance.
Some don't even involve running, like ski mountaineering,
cycling events and even lastpaddler standing.
(00:52):
You'll also find storieshighlighting runners, race
directors, training tips,running destinations and the
growth of the sport in theirweekly newsletter and online
magazine.
Visit ultrasignupcom to explorethe possibilities and plan your
next adventure.
Today's episode is alsosponsored by Bay Trail Runners.
(01:14):
Rooted in passion for gettingout on the California trails,
bay Trail Runners was founded byRobert Rhodes in 2012.
When he passed away from cancerin 2021, he chose Todd Gleeden,
our guest today, to take careof the community and continue to
host these inspiring andchallenging events.
One of my very favorites ofthese events is coming soon Napa
(01:36):
Wilderness Trail Runs kicks offthe morning of May 17th.
Whether you're a seasoned trailrunner, just starting out or
just want to come hang out innature, there's a place for you
here.
You might come out for the 10KFun Run, half Marathon, 30k
Scenic Trek that's where you'llfind me.
50k Endurance Challenge or 40Mile Elevation Beast, make it a
(01:59):
weekend adventure by camping outunder the stars and soaking up
the energy and natural beauty bycamping out under the stars and
soaking up the energy andnatural beauty.
And if you'd rather not run butyou still want to be a part of
the fun, you can always cheer orvolunteer.
Volunteers help with setup foodservice and creating a
welcoming and energizingatmosphere.
All runners and volunteers aretreated to a post-event lunch
(02:21):
with burritos, wraps, salad andcold drinks.
A post-event lunch withburritos, wraps, salad and cold
drinks.
You can connect with Bay TrailRunners on Facebook and sign up
for the race directly on UltraSign Up.
Get the links in today's shownotes or go straight to
ultrasignupcom and search NapaWilderness Trail Runs to
register.
Hope to see you there Today.
(02:45):
Our guest is Todd Gleeden.
Todd Gleeden is a testament tohuman resilience and the
transformative power of runningand community, having triumphed
over formidable healthchallenges, including cancer, a
heart attack and a severe kneeinjury.
Todd has not only reclaimed hisphysical strength, but has also
dedicated himself to upliftingothers through the sport he
(03:07):
loves so much.
An accomplished trail runnerhimself, todd's passion for the
sport has been both a personallifeline and a communal bridge.
He channels his experiencesinto mentoring and supporting
fellow runners, emphasizing thetherapeutic and unifying aspects
of being outside together onthe trails.
Through organizing communityruns and participating in
(03:29):
charitable events, toddexemplifies how personal
adversity can be transformedinto collective empowerment.
Today, todd shares hisinspiring story of recovery, how
running played a role in hishealing process and how
connecting with others hassupported his health and healing
.
His love, hope and resilienceare palpable, so you're truly in
(03:51):
for a treat.
Please join me in welcomingTodd to the show.
Welcome to the podcast, ToddGlieden.
I'm so happy to have you here.
We've known each other almost15 years now and I'm really
excited to share you and yourexperience with listeners.
(04:13):
It's a little different.
So I've had a few episodes nowwhere, instead of being super
clinical and interviewing peoplewho are studying things, we're
talking to folks who are goingthrough things, have been
through things and you've beenthrough some things.
Todd Glieden (04:25):
We've been through some things.
Lisa Danylchuk (04:27):
The hope with this is to shine some light on
the everyday healing that'shappening all the time, to
recognize how hard it is it'seasier to talk about healing
trauma than it is to actually gothrough it.
It and I'm hoping thatlisteners can derive some
(04:49):
inspiration, but the kind thatcomes from the reality of you
living through what you've livedthrough and thriving the way
that you're thriving now.
For folks who don't know usfrom running on the trails, Todd
and I met through a runninggroup shout out to Run With Clay
in Oakland.
We've run road races together,trail races together.
We just did 11 miles or so inYosemite the other day,
celebrating life, celebratingtrails, and I'd love for you to
(05:10):
share with folks, Todd, howtrail running became such a
central theme and thing in yourlife.
Todd Glieden (05:20):
I was diagnosed with lymphoma and it was
something that changed my lifeforever in a better way.
A lot of people get reallyfreaked out about cancer and
(05:40):
living with it.
I don't think I discoveredmyself until then, Really had no
direction in my life, was justdoing the day-to-day, working so
hard and getting nowhere andnot knowing if I would ever come
out of that hospital.
The extreme amount of chemosurgeries, everything.
I almost think it didn't affectme how I thought it was going
(06:02):
to affect me.
I thought it was the end of theworld and you just stopped at
this and went home and livedforever long and I enjoyed
watching the people around me.
I think it was harder for themto go through it than me.
(06:23):
I saw a lot of people in thehospital.
I was there for about 90 daysat Stanford and would go home
for a couple hours sometimesbefore I get sick again and go
back.
People that came out of my life, that helped me and were around
(06:43):
me were completely differentthan the people I thought would
be there.
Lisa Danylchuk (06:47):
So interesting right.
Todd Glieden (06:48):
Yeah, people I barely knew come over, give me a
ride, bring me food, and it gotto the point where I just
really enjoyed learning throughthe whole experience and trying
to make the best I could of it.
But I lost a lot of people,people that I worked with every
day and thought I would seeevery day and some I've never
(07:13):
seen in 22 years since then.
So when I got out I'm like newlease on life, let's do this.
It kind of backfired.
I went back after a year or twoof trying to get really healthy
, reverted back to my old ways.
Then I discovered a runninggroup and kind of changed
(07:35):
everything in my world, evenuntil today.
I started slow at you and a lotof people and went from being
very shy and not even wouldapproach people I didn't know.
Lisa Danylchuk (07:49):
That's so funny to me.
Oh, my goodness, I would neverdescribe you that way.
Todd Glieden (07:55):
That was very.
I remember the first time Iwent there I found this group on
Facebook.
Look at the pictures.
There's going to be 15, 20people there.
I'm very nervous about goingand there was two people and I
went up to the wrong group andfrom that day on it became a
part of my healing and a part ofjust trying to make things
(08:18):
better for myself.
Before I could make thingsbetter for others.
And now it's kind of come fullcircle, because I own a running
company and enjoy so much givingthat back to the people that
gave that opportunity to meTraveling the world literally,
you know, spending weeks andmonths in other countries and
(08:41):
being able to share myexperience, and just, I think
part of my joy now is to watchsomebody that has never
experienced whether it's runningor something else do something
they've never done or wanted todo and find out that it's all
right.
Lisa Danylchuk (08:59):
Yeah, that they can do it Right that you can do
it.
Yeah, that's such a beautifulprocess.
I remember meeting someone in ameditation group and I was
running the half marathon at thetime.
You know, early around the timewe met and she was like, oh,
there's no way I could ever dothat.
I was like, oh, you totally can.
And I recommended AmericanHeart Association's training
(09:19):
group and there was one over inAlameda where she was, and I was
like you don't even have to runit, you can walk it, you can
rock it, you can do it howeveryou want to do it, but you can
do it and she did, and shereached back to me and was like
hey, thanks, I was like I knewyou could do it.
Sometimes you just need to be apart of a community that sees
what you can do, or to identifywhat you want and decide to go
(09:40):
for it, right.
Todd Glieden (09:42):
The process started there 22 years ago and
it's never ended.
And there's so much more.
I never thought I would do thethings that I've done.
I've run almost 70 ultramarathons, road marathons,
hundreds of half marathons.
If you look at me standing onthe street, I am not the person
that looks like I run down thestreet, you know, and I was very
(10:07):
competitive and had to be thebest and wanted this, and to me,
now it's.
I just want to be there.
I want to be there with thepeople.
Mm-hmm, I enjoy my time alone.
I enjoy healing in my own world, with nobody around me.
Healing in my own world, withnobody around me, looking at
(10:28):
nature, being there, standing inthe rain, in the mud, and it's
special.
But then, in turn, I likesomebody to enjoy that with me.
Yes, so to go out and give thatexperience to somebody else now
in my life is great feeling.
Yeah.
And strive for it all the time.
Lisa Danylchuk (10:47):
As you're talking, I'm thinking about.
I know there's a video of ussplashing in puddles in the
headlands in Marin, right, andthere are plenty of times where
we'll reach out and just be likewhere are you going this
weekend?
What are you doing?
10 to 30 miles Perfect, let'sgo.
You know so, sometimes going outwith a friend it's planning a
big group and other times and Iknow you and I both appreciate
(11:14):
this a lot just secretsquirreling it, going on your
own or not even telling someoneyou signed up for a big race and
just letting it be yours, maybesharing when you're finished
with it and celebrating together.
But there's something reallynice about what you're
describing in trail running ofyou can be with yourself, you
can be with one other person,and it's nice because even on
runs, you know if we're doing 12to 30 miles, we're going to
(11:34):
talk the whole time.
We can talk at certain points.
You can be together.
You can be together.
Apart.
You can be totally apart, like,oh God, where'd Todd go?
I had to find him on the trailand all of that is a part of it.
I'm wondering what you've cometo love most about trail running
in all these years.
Todd Glieden (11:53):
That there's no end.
Lisa Danylchuk (11:55):
Yeah.
Todd Glieden (11:56):
You can go wherever you want, and I was
having this discussion earlier,you know you think you start out
with a plan for the day.
Lisa Danylchuk (12:06):
Right.
Todd Glieden (12:07):
And it's trail running and you have weather and
obstacles and road closures andtrails that aren't there
anymore and you go and youdiscover things, and it's to me
it's like living.
It's not a structured thing.
I could turn this direction orthat direction, and which am I
going to go?
And as I've gotten older Iusually choose the harder way
(12:31):
because I don't know if I'm evergoing to have that opportunity
again.
I held back in my life so muchgrowing up.
It was so structured You've gotto go to school, graduate, you
have to have a job, a family andall this and it's in your head
that you have to do that.
Now, for me it's the opposite.
All that can happen.
(12:52):
But I need to be happy first,until the cancer kind of scared
me in a way that I realized Ihad to do anything.
And then I am eight or nineyears out from having a heart
attack and that changed it againand I really to the point where
(13:14):
if I don't try it I may neverhave the opportunity.
So I've tried more things sincethen.
I love to tell people I've runall my marathons since I've had
my heart attack.
Lisa Danylchuk (13:28):
Wow.
Todd Glieden (13:28):
And if you add them all up or in the eighties,
and I've never felt better.
It's a struggle with agestruggles.
I've finished them now, butit's something that I, you know.
Until I can't, I will, and whenI can't I'll be there to be a
part of it.
I don't think I'll ever losethat.
(13:50):
Things will change and shift inlife and in the world.
Things are going to be changingin the world we live in,
certainly.
So my goal is to continue doingwhat I'm doing and sharing what
I've been able to go throughand tell people that you don't
have to give up when you havetrauma in your life, when
(14:12):
something happens.
I had this conversation withsomebody this morning and it's
like something didn't go yourway, whether it's physical,
mental, whatever, but you havethe opportunity to do something
about it for the rest of yourlife.
Whether you're here five yearsor 50 years, I have to give
(14:33):
myself that opportunity to giveback.
It's just something that Idon't see myself not doing every
day.
Lisa Danylchuk (14:40):
Can you take us back to?
You've mentioned now beingdiagnosed with lymphoma.
You've mentioned having a heartattack.
Can you take us back one?
You've mentioned now beingdiagnosed with lymphoma.
You've mentioned having a heartattack.
Can you take us back one at atime, to like what was going
through your mind, because itsounds like your experience is
unique and maybe a littledifferent than the norm for a
lot of reasons.
So what was going through yourmind when you first found out
you needed treatment for cancer?
Todd Glieden (15:01):
Very unknown.
I never you know, had neverspent time in a hospital or
through any kind of prolongedtreatment.
I literally thought I wasn'tfeeling good and had the flu,
went into the doctor and I didnot come home for 89 days.
They scanned me, found a hugetumor and I went in the next day
(15:24):
and had my whole entire chestcavity from top to bottom opened
, taken out.
It was cancerous, the tumor, soI went straight into treatment.
I think the biggest shock waschecking in for the treatment at
Stanford and my mom was with meand basically make arrangements
(15:50):
to not be there tomorrow ifsomething happens.
Do you have somebody to signyour stuff over to?
You know, executor, you want togo to the fertility clinic
before we start this in an hour?
And it's basically a sign here.
And I just kind of was in shockand I handled it pretty well.
(16:12):
But I had a lot of time.
I was there, like I said, 90days and I would go days without
seeing people Lying in ahospital bed with IVs on both
sides, I think, 130 staplesstill and not being able to call
out.
This is before I had a PDA.
(16:36):
I didn't have a cell phone thatyou could type in and text all
the time and just kind of beingthere by yourself was a scary
thing, because I had days whereI never thought I would come
home.
You have really dark days wherethe treatment is harsh and you
feel crazy.
And, to top things off, thiswas seven days after 9-11.
(16:59):
So the only thing that was onTV every single channel that the
three or four in the hospitalwas 9-11.
Watching 24-7, people gettingrescued, the towers, the planes.
So you're completely eithernumb to it and turn it off or
(17:21):
watch day by day.
Well, they had it bad.
I was in an older wing in thehospital and there wasn't much
to see and things slowly startedchanging.
I slowly started getting out ofbed, took my IV on a little
walker with me it was an olderbut nice hospital.
I found my way down to thecafeteria in a Starbucks that
(17:44):
was my day to try to make itdown there and back.
I was right next to LucyPackard's Children's Hospital.
There was a lot of eitherbabies being born or babies
going through care.
I would go over to the maternityward and look through the
window and look at new lifestarting through the window and
(18:08):
look at new life starting, andit was the way I spent my day
just trying to get through itand not planned.
But my grandmother ended upthere a couple floors above me
with breast cancer treatment andmy cousin was in the pain and
back area.
So for several weeks I hadrelatives there that I can sit
(18:28):
next to them, and then I haddays where there was nobody.
People that just showed up.
I would turn around andsomebody I barely knew from work
would be there with a bag or astuffed animal or a plant or
something and it's like I reallydidn't expect animal or a plant
or something, and it's like Ireally didn't expect.
Lisa Danylchuk (18:50):
It sounds like people showing up for you was
really important and seeingsomething in these people who
maybe you didn't even know thatwell, there was a openness or a
kindness or a generosity or care.
How would you describe howthose people impacted your
experience while you're in thehospital or even after?
Todd Glieden (19:05):
All positive.
For me it was the caring thatthey took time out of their
lives.
With everything going on with9-11.
We didn't know, you know westill weren't flying, we
couldn't travel.
They found that time.
You know they're busy.
I was not close to where I wasworking.
My parents were, you know, mymom was six hours away, my dad
was an hour and a half away, mybrothers and sisters but then I
(19:29):
people I really expected to bethere never showed up.
So I kind of had to put that inperspective.
They I can handle that, I don'tthink they can.
And you know my roommate wouldcome over a couple of days,
bring me food or things, thingsthat I wanted to see or, and you
(19:50):
know, those 15 minutes to anhour became so special.
I do remember I was in there forone of my birthdays and knew I
wasn't coming out, but then, asmy treatment started to get
towards the end, it wasthanksgiving and I was looking
(20:10):
so forward to being home stillnot feeling well at all At that
point no hair, very skinny, veryfragile, but just being at home
and being able to sit on thesofa for Thanksgiving.
Then I got a fever again and Ididn't get checked out to the
day after Thanksgiving, so itwas before Zoom and all this.
I got a call from my parents onThanksgiving Day and just so
(20:35):
much wanted to be there and Iwent through my time where I got
mad because I wasn't doingthings I wanted to do.
But looking back, I thinkthat's actually what helped To
have the time to focus andreally think about it, to have
(20:59):
the time to focus and reallythink about it.
And it was different with theheart attack, because my first
question I asked is when am Igetting out of here?
You know that one scared me butsince I had been through
something before, that one wasmore like when do I get back?
What I've now learned that Ican do, because I had 10 years
in between them and I had come along way in those 10 years and
(21:21):
kind of had come out of my shell, made a place where I wanted to
be in my running community anda part of everything, and I was
bound and determined that thatwasn't going to stop.
Lisa Danylchuk (21:32):
It sounds like the first experience was very
unknown, but there's also thisawakening to the value of life
and the possibility and yourchoices, that you can choose not
just to do it how it's beenexpected of you or societal
expectations, but you can do itand you can live the way that
(21:52):
feels good to you and you canmake choices every day.
And knowing that life isn'tforever increases the value of
each day.
And so there's this making thebest of it.
And then, 10 years later, heartattack and you're like when can
I get back to just living mylife?
Todd Glieden (22:10):
My heart attack was on a Monday or Tuesday.
I was home within two or threedays, recovered pretty well,
went back to work probablywithin two weeks.
I had stints put in and youknow it was a lot easier.
The process seemed way too easy.
It really did.
I was in great shape, I was afast runner, things had really
(22:35):
come full circle and I was happywith where I was at.
It happened because of my pasthealth.
I tried to run four weeks afterand couldn't.
I couldn't.
I mean I wasn't even walkingthe distance.
I wanted to because of theheart attack and opted to go on
some more stronger medicine, hadsome more tests done and
(23:00):
voluntarily decided to haveanother stent put in.
And a lot of people very fewknow this.
I was went in on a Tuesday.
I was out like Wednesday night,had my other stint put in
Probably the scariest thing, Iwill still say probably the
scariest thing I ever did Havingthe stint put in and closing me
(23:23):
up and we're doing everythinggetting out of there.
The hospital staff was great,wide awake during the whole
thing.
I started to flutter and myheart started to stop.
My heart rate goes down to like13 beats a minute.
Everybody that had left comesback and adrenaline set in,
because you don't know if you'regoing to make it.
(23:43):
And I just instantly you knowsweating adrenaline.
They're trying to keep me awakeand I wanted to go to sleep.
I kept telling them I need togo to sleep and then you know
people, they're moving you,they're trying not to, and then
slowly starts going back up.
It gets to a certain level.
They all disappear again.
Okay, it's over.
That was on a Tuesday, and onFriday I went with a friend to
(24:09):
the city and ran a half marathon.
Lisa Danylchuk (24:11):
Oh, stop it, Todd, okay.
So what do you say to peoplewho are like, no, you should be
resting, cause.
I know you, your doctors Idon't know if your doctor knew
about that half marathon, buthow do you manage that?
Cause Here now you have thispassion and you want to get back
out, which I think people canrelate to.
I always think of this quote.
That's like if your soul wantsto dance, then resting is
(24:34):
stressful and dance is restful.
I wanted to dance, yeah, and soI get that.
And then I know people justhave strong reactions around
like, oh, my goodness, you needto heal.
Tell us about that halfmarathon and how did it feel and
what did your doctor say whenyou came back around?
Todd Glieden (24:53):
So I went out with a friend and I seem to do this
to a lot of people these daysmyself but she's like I'm
training, I've got to go do this, I'm going to go run and run
ahead of you Got your phone ifyou have any problems.
My whole thing about healingand you know I talked myself
into it, whether it was good,bad or indifferent, I never did
anything I didn't feelcompletely safe with.
(25:16):
If I felt I was going to have aheart attack or something was
going to happen, I wouldn't havedone it and, like I said, I
think as I'm getting older, I'mtaking more risks like that
because I don't want to be thatperson that's not seen again and
not heard of again becausesomething happened.
I want to be on the oppositeend of it and even now, doing
(25:37):
what I do when I travel abroadevery year, I have to go through
a lot of tests treadmill tests,scans, ultrasounds, my heart
and a lot of that is all on myown, other than maybe needing a
sign out from a doctor, otherthan maybe needing a sign-off
from a doctor.
My process to heal myself and tobe where I want to be is to
(25:58):
make sure I'm doing everything Ican.
So everybody's like we'll seeyou next year.
I still go to the doctor, evenfor my lymphoma.
Every three to four months Iget my blood test and to me
that's my process, that's what'ssound in my head, that I can
continue this.
And we've had incidents whereI've been told well, that's not
(26:20):
too good, or what can you do.
I do think a lot of it ismental and you know what we've
gone through with elections andpeople and power.
I think that affects all of itfor me.
It's just not me, it's theworld I live in and I don't want
to say how do I make it abetter place?
I make it better for me.
(26:42):
So I can hopefully share thatwith somebody else.
Lisa Danylchuk (26:46):
Well, I think that's, by definition, what
you're doing right.
You found a love of trailrunning and now that's a big
part of your work and you hostevents for other people and you
invite them in.
I hear so many points ofresilience, or what we might
even call post-traumatic growth,in here, like recognizing the
value of life, valuing life,valuing the opportunity you have
(27:09):
each day to choose to do whatyou love.
The opportunity you have eachday to choose to do what you
love.
Also, even recognizing anger asappropriate and adaptive like
that was helpful.
That helped me move forward.
Todd Glieden (27:21):
A lot of my anger.
I think it's there because Icare.
If you don't care, I don'treally think you're going to get
angry about anything.
Why do I care?
Why don't I just let thingshappen like other people?
And it's just like I've triedso hard to be where I'm at that
I do care.
So I get angry and sometimes Istep back and go.
(27:42):
Is it worth it?
Can I walk away from it?
Do I need to be by myself for acouple of days?
Do I need to find my peaceagain?
I post a lot of pictures, thingsfor people to see, and a lot of
them end with peace or to liveyour best life and my best life
is definitely not somebodyelse's.
I put a lot of pressure onmyself to do what I want to do.
(28:05):
Working for myself in the lastfour years has been a huge
relief emotionally, maybe notfinancially, but to answer to
myself and not somebody that'smaking a decision for me is a
huge step.
I was really afraid, after thepandemic and after a bad job, to
(28:25):
take my future into my ownhands.
I can go back and get acorporate job like I've had.
I went from training hundredsof people in a huge company to
trying to train myself to be whoI want to be.
It's sometimes really hard.
I have no problem now standingin front of a thousand people
and talking, which 10, 15 yearsago you couldn't get me in front
(28:47):
of three people to talk, talk.
Lisa Danylchuk (28:49):
And I just have to let listeners know that Todd
is someone that if I go on anytrail not even just in
California, like we could be inFrance and we'll run by someone
like hey Todd, like everyoneknows so many people in the
running community, and I'll belike how do you know?
Cause these are people I don'tknow.
(29:10):
I've been on a lot of runs withyou, I've been a lot of places,
have been in some of the samegroups, but how do you know them
?
How do you know them?
Just different events, justgetting to know folks.
I mean to hear you call yourselfshy or any of those things is
so I mean it's laughable to menow.
But I get it right.
Of course I believe you and Itrust you.
I just want people to know thejuxtaposition of what you're
(29:32):
describing as before, or yourinternal experience, and what
people would see if they justwent for a run with you.
They'd be like this is the mostsocial person I've ever met.
Everyone knows them.
There've been times wheresomeone's run by and been like
hey, todd, how's it going?
You're like hey, what's up?
And I'm like who's that?
And you're like I'm not sure.
Todd Glieden (29:49):
That caught me off guard.
Like the first or second time Iever went to France.
I signed up on an app here inAmerica for a meetup and I'm
like, okay, you know it's socialmeetup for this, that running
dates.
And I'm like I went to mylittle meetup group and put
myself through the subway.
I had no idea where I'm going.
No, not one person you know.
And this is through thisprocess that I'm not as shy
(30:11):
anymore.
But I literally walk across thestreet and some guy comes up
and goes oh Todd, you're goingto be here.
I saw something and knew me fromhere and it's like that stuff
catches you off guard and, likeyou said, in the mountains of
France running with somebody,they turn around and see you.
Maybe a year ago I was up inthe Marin Headlands running and
(30:33):
I had run with a girl at nightin 29 Palms 15 years ago when
the Boston bombing happened.
We ran a relay race togetherand I'm running in Marin in the
light and she ran up to me andremembered me.
From there we have talked offand on for many, many years but
our lives have not crossed sincethen.
(30:55):
Those are things that I reallyget excited about and can catch
up with that person and wherethey're at now in their lives.
And she just had a baby and gotmarried.
I met this girl on a run in thedesert 15 years ago.
It is a small world and, to yourpoint, with the trill I think,
what I think set me differentfrom any other sport that I've
(31:17):
ever watched or been a part of.
When tragedy happens to a groupor one of us, the community is
unbelievable and supportive.
I don't think without thatsupport I would be where I am
Just unconditional support.
Sometimes People rally around.
We've lost friends in thecommunity for one reason or
(31:40):
another and somebody is alwaysthere.
I think it's special.
You don't see that in the worldwe live in much anymore.
As our community gets largerand larger, being a small part
of it is special to me.
It just it means a lot.
Yeah, I had no idea when I metyou all that there were groups
(32:06):
and running people and peopledid things.
I'll be honest with you at youknow, probably 25 years old, 35
years old, when I met thesepeople I didn't know what a
marathon was.
I didn't know people went anddid stuff like this and it's
really broadened my horizons inthe world.
It can take you to every singlecorner of the world.
It literally can and has, andwill continue to.
Lisa Danylchuk (32:31):
There's something so beautiful, I think,
about the community that we metthrough too, because it was so
like, naturally diverse andloving and like that group
literally the people that youwould ask for a ride to the
airport would give you, bringfood to your house when you were
sick or, if you had a baby, setup a food train, right, like
(32:52):
there was something about theculture of that group, cause I
did join other.
I was coaching with America.
I was participant for Americanheart association.
That was coaching with Americanheart association, with some of
those people, and it was reallyspecial and we all felt so
connected and supportive of eachother.
And then I went and coached foranother group that recruited me
and I swear people just likeshowed up and started their
watches.
I was a coach and I was like Ican change this Right, like I
(33:13):
can.
I was co-coaching and I wastrying to bring something to it
that felt like our group and itwas challenging.
There's something about Clay whostarted Run With Clay,
obviously and about the peoplethat gravitated and stuck in
that group.
That was and is really healingand that I see as crucial in
(33:37):
terms of having this safe spacewhere you can share, that you're
recovering from somethingmedical, you can be yourself
fully right.
There's so many differenthealing models and things that I
just see how all that shows upin there and I love that you
have continued to create thatspace through even casual runs
(33:58):
that you host, but definitelythrough your organized events.
It's very welcoming andinclusive and family-like, and I
think trail running is unique.
Maybe folks have this in roadrunning too, but I think trail
running because of thatconnection with nature, because
there's sometimes a little morerisk of I'm going to climb up
this cliff hey, can you hold myhand?
Stranger I've never met.
(34:18):
What's your name?
Now that you've seen me cry, Ithink there could be more
vulnerability there.
But with that vulnerabilitythere can also be more genuine
connection.
So, yeah, as you're describingthat, I'm thinking about the
healing impacts of the communityin your life, in all our lives.
Right For me too.
Todd Glieden (34:37):
I think the community is a bunch of people
that needed to be healed.
If you look at it, there is ahuge portion of the running
community that are allrecovering from some addiction.
A lot of drug and alcoholrecovery ends up in trail
running.
They have a new addiction now,just like I had.
I had to be out on the trailevery single day.
(34:59):
I don't think the communitylets you go backwards, because I
don't know anybody that'sjoined that community and has
been able to flip and go back,because there's always somebody
there to help them, to help themheal.
They post things I'm not doing,doing good today, and the
amount of people that write thenand there to help that person
(35:20):
and get them back to where theyneed to go.
I don't see that in a lot ofother things.
I know if I ever needed helpagain for anything, I could post
something.
When I came out of breaking mykneecap there was the knee
kneecap I posted something likeI need a ride to the farmer's
market.
(35:40):
I had a lady that I did notknow respond to my post and she
came and picked me up in her carand we spent the day at the
farmer's market and to havesomebody show up.
Of course I did a littleresearch.
Yeah, she knows this friend ofmine, that friend of mine.
Okay, you know, I'm not gettingkidnapped, I'm going to make it
(36:02):
back.
And it was like, okay, that wasjust an experience.
And, like I said, people comeout to help because I think I've
given that back so much and Ithink a lot of it is listening
and seeing what people want.
They'll tell you.
It might be indirect, butpeople will tell you that
they're in need of some help orthey figure it out.
Sometimes I'm kind of quiet andpeople give me a call or text,
(36:24):
everything all right, youhaven't been out in a couple of
days and that's not my norm.
So, yeah, something's going on.
I will go out on a trail andI'll find somebody.
Hey, you want to meet here andthat's again.
That's my healing process.
There's so much going on ineverybody's lives.
We have to let each other helpeach other and the more you open
(36:47):
up to that, you make lifefriends.
I'm really proud to say I couldgo probably anywhere in the
world and find somebody I'veknown or corresponded with that
I could stay with.
Or, you know, help me find mynext adventure and cherish that
a lot.
Don't want that to go away andas I get older into this, the
(37:09):
more and more I cherish that to.
Lisa Danylchuk (37:12):
You know be to learn from other people yeah,
there's a couple other thingsyou mentioned that I just want
to highlight because there's youknow, of course I hear things
through the trauma therapistbrain, because that's what I
have.
When you talk about becomingself-employed and you're like
maybe it was a little bitfinancially stressful but it was
(37:35):
emotionally really healing,that to me is the definition of
empowerment, Same thing withgoing from living a life that's
expected of you to living a lifethat you actively choose.
So often in trauma recovery wetalk about feeling disempowered,
because a lot of times whenthere's something traumatic,
it's something that sort ofhappens to us.
(37:55):
It's not like we choose it.
Of course there's infinitevariability in how things happen
, but for the most part it'slike I just happened to be in
the wrong place at the wrongtime, or I just happened to have
this medical condition anddidn't know, or I just happened
into this relationship that wastoxic we could talk about all
these other conditions around itbut that in and of itself can
(38:18):
be very disempowering to havesomething happen that was not
what you wanted, that washarmful to you, that was even
violent, or it was a near-deathexperience, so for you to have
the reaction and I think this isexactly what we talk about in
terms of post-traumatic growth,like I'm going to reclaim my
life.
I didn't even know, I wasn'tclaiming it, I'm going to claim
it now and I'm going to value itand I'm going to recognize my
(38:41):
emotions, I'm going to trustmyself.
You also talked about going onthat run right after your heart
surgery which, again, like sure,your doctor was like, well, I'm
glad you're okay after you didit.
But, like you were, you werelistening to your body.
You're like I never didanything where I didn't feel
safe.
Right, I know when you'rerunning, you have heart
medication with you and that ifsomething happens, that I am to
(39:05):
give you this heart medication.
So just having that sense ofcommunity that you've described,
having that sense ofempowerment, having people there
to help you feel safe, but alsotrusting yourself around, that
I mean you even described it inlike, oh here's, this wonderful
community member is going totake me to the farmer's market.
Let me look them up first.
Okay, I feel safe, let's go.
(39:26):
And then the other thing I wantto highlight is this slow,
everyday, step-by-step.
You're in the hospital for 89,90 days and you don't know
what's going to happen, butyou're there and then you go to
Starbucks, come back, and thenyou see your relative on another
floor and come back.
And it's just, I think, a lotof people when we are going
through the thick of trauma,like it's hard.
(39:49):
If I went and visited you thenmagically and was like hi, todd,
I'm your friend from the future, you're going to run ultra
marathons You'd be like what?
Who are you Get out of here,crazy person?
What are you even talking?
It's just not meeting you whereyou are.
And I think it can be hard whenwe're in that place where our
(40:10):
day is walking down the hall andback.
Sometimes that can be reallyhard to just sit with and be
with and trust that things willchange.
But for anyone who's listening,who helps people through trauma
, who's in the thick of trauma,I think we know this like really
slow, gentle, step-by-step canmove mountains, can have you
(40:31):
moving all over the mountains.
Todd Glieden (40:33):
Can have you hanging off the mountain, can
have you hanging off themountain and hopefully you
hanging off the mountains, onthe right ropes, right, yeah,
todd, does those like um, whatdo you call?
Lisa Danylchuk (40:42):
the one in at broken arrow, the via ferrata,
the like where you're?
Oh, I'm like, once it turnsinto rock climbing, I'm good, I
want to be on my feet.
But yeah, todd, does the extraextra.
Todd Glieden (40:55):
Those things, you know, have made me even more
sure that I need to continuedoing what I'm doing.
I think every year now, and Iwant to say in the last five
years, even since my runningspeed has slowed down a little
bit because everything justfalls apart on the body, has
(41:19):
slowed down a little bit becauseeverything just falls apart on
the body.
You know, I think challengingmyself with shorter, harder
things has really become whatI've enjoyed so much.
I like hanging off the cliffnow and going someplace where I
never even dreamed pictures weretaken from there.
You know I have my heart set ondoing some things in the next
couple of years and I keep ongetting super close and then
(41:42):
have to back off.
I don't want to die today but Ireally need to do this because
my head that I want to do andthen really reality check that
(42:06):
hey, I just did that and Idreamed that and I want to be
there.
You know it's not an easy task.
I'm very okay sharing that it'snot an easy task.
I'm very okay sharing thatSometimes getting help and
working with a therapist orpeople around you to get through
some of these things that scareyou and you're not sure about
(42:28):
is part of the whole process ofmaking it better, and I believe
my healing from my younger lifeis an ongoing, continually thing
.
I might tell myself, get out ofthe situation I was in, but
there's always something therefor the future and I'm not
(42:49):
afraid of it.
I'm not afraid of a failure, ofnot being able to do everything
I want to do, but I'm gonna try.
There's always somebody outthere that has done something.
I able to do everything I wantto do, but I'm going to try.
There's always somebody outthere that has done something I
want to do.
To surround yourself by thosepeople and have them push you a
(43:10):
little bit to get to your goalshas been a big part of my life.
I wouldn't have gone on a lot ofthese adventures unless
somebody showed me.
Sometimes I look back and go.
I wish you wouldn't have shownme that, because now I've got to
do it, but I enjoy it.
I enjoy those thoughts everyday and I really do enjoy
dreaming and trying to figureout like, oh, what can I get
myself into?
Then again, I'm realistic withwhat my body can handle and my
(43:33):
age and financials.
I'm not going to be able to doeverything, but I'm going to try
as much as I can.
Lisa Danylchuk (43:39):
And what I hear in that, too, is chasing your
dreams.
And as you describe, chasingyour dreams, I just have visions
of the vertical kilometer andShamoni and me following you up
there and then getting to thepoint where I'm like, wait, I
have to climb over what my heartis in my throat.
Do I go back down or do I keepgoing up?
I'm going to keep going up.
I got this right, like thosemoments of courage.
(44:00):
It's not.
I mean, I know we all havedifferent fear thresholds and I
think it's important to respectthat, but there are moments
where there's a challenge,something you're not.
It's not just rote habit.
Right, you were talking aboutpeople coming from perhaps some
folks coming from addiction intotrail running, and you can just
use it as a new addiction oryou can use it as a healthy
(44:21):
habit and you can use thesemoments as kind of training,
like mini life experiences,right?
Okay, here's this thing.
It looks hard, what am I goingto do with that and how am I
going to work?
I mean, my approach is alwayslike how am I going to work with
myself and we all do itdifferently but how am I going
to do with that and how am Igoing to work.
I mean, my approach is alwayslike how am I going to work with
myself and we all do itdifferently but how am I going
to encourage myself through this, recognize the strength that I
(44:43):
have, recognize the supportsthat I have.
There are times where it's like, no, we're not going to go that
way.
Ooh, the weather feels weird.
Let's turn around like ahundred percent right, we're
like looking to have eachother's back and be safe.
We can develop these habits,not only of being outdoors and
(45:03):
being in community and being onthe trail and getting healthy
exercise, but also of learninghow we tick and what's the best
way to grow and what do we dowhen we get scared and all those
things.
I mean, I don't know if youknow this.
The first time I did BrokenArrow, which, for those of you
listening who don't know, it's arace in Tahoe that started in
2016.
(45:24):
Alex and I did the first onetogether.
It was a 52K race.
At the time I didn't know therewas a ladder involved in it.
We got to the ladder, which is,for those listening, at the top
of the mountain.
It's rocky.
There's like pretty much cliffson both sides.
I mean, it's bolted in and it'ssolid and strong, but it's also
very scary.
And I got there and I wouldjust started crying and I was
(45:45):
like no, we're going back downthe way we came.
And Alex was like okay, andthen I was like no, I don't want
to go back down the way we came.
I want to get through this.
Like that's really scary andthanks for letting me have my
feelings about it.
But now can we go, please?
And Alex and I are both reallyaware of this too.
He's been in emergency servicesfor so long where we're not
dysregulated, pushing forward,like, oh, I'm so afraid I'm
(46:07):
going to fall.
I'm just going to plow forward.
No, like we're going to stop,we're going to pause, I'm going
to have my feelings, I'm goingto cry on your shoulder.
Then we're going to slowlybreathe and hold on tight and
hold on to the rope while wemove forward through this scary
thing.
So I think there's so manyexperiences like that.
It's one of the reasons I lovetrail running, because there's
unexpected views and inspiration.
(46:28):
There's unexpected moments ofdecision-making, of like, hmm,
is this safe?
Okay, I just saw someone gobefore me.
So, yeah, it seems like it is,but maybe it's not for me and
I'm going to take the trailinstead of the ladder today, and
I just have never met anyone.
I've met people that are reallyencouraging, but I've never,
(46:48):
like I would never expect to beon a trail and you'd be like, oh
, you didn't do the ladder.
You'd be like, oh, cool, allright, you're going to go that
way, I'm going to go this way.
Todd Glieden (47:02):
I'll meet you on the other side.
I just feel like people are sounderstanding and supportive of
that.
It's about so much more.
I remember your second ultramarathon.
I still was in my cast frombreaking my knee and I ran the
last three miles with you.
We had all these people thatwere supposed to show up and it
ended up being you and me forthe last couple miles and you
just took off and I'm still inthis movable, bendable cast and
(47:23):
I was supposed to be there but Icouldn't make it that year
because I couldn't run too well.
I remember doing it the nextyear by myself and I had never
run a marathon.
And then I am running thisultra marathon.
For those that don't know, it'smore than a marathon.
So I'm running this 50k and Imade it to the marathon point on
(47:46):
a trail by myself andcompletely broke down.
So, I'm like I've just conqueredone of the dreams I wanted to
do by running the marathon.
I made it so.
Now, if I have to walk the nextsix miles, I'm all right with
that and I'm all good, all good.
Um, that was my first of like.
(48:07):
I said like maybe 80 ago and itwas my fastest.
Well then, the next year I gotin and ran the New York City
Marathon.
It was my first road marathon,an experience I'll never forget
in my life the support, thepeople.
I can remember every corner,just being there with 50,000
(48:30):
other people and we all have adream to finish.
You're surrounded by all thesepeople, but you're so alone in
your focus and what you want toaccomplish.
I've run it one more time.
I sign up every year to try toget in and it was just an
experience I'll never forgetRunning through every borough,
seeing every type of person inthe world cheering for you,
(48:53):
people you don't know running upand slapping their hand or
taking a candy or a drink fromthem, people you would never
talk to being out there.
I think my favorite part wasgoing through Harlem just the
cheers and the people screamingso loud back at them you lose
your voice and the high, youknow, they a lot of time,
(49:15):
especially in racing.
We'll call it a runner's high.
I think that was probably mybiggest high of finishing that
and and and.
You know, I want to say it wasfor me, but I just think it was
for my being just something Ihad hoped for so long.
I went to New York for my 40thbirthday.
(49:36):
My mom asked me where I wantedto go and gave me all these
options and I went there withher.
Never run a day in my life,never had run more than 100
yards in my life.
We just happened to go on mybirthday weekend, which is right
.
At the same time, the marathonis watching people do this.
I told her one day I will dothis and my hair is really long
(49:59):
and I'll cut my hair the day Ido this.
And um, it was like nine yearslater that I finally did it.
And then, you know, the hairstayed for probably 10 more
years.
I just kept on upping it like,okay, we got to run this one for
my first 50 miler, I'll do this, you know.
And it was finally.
It was another life thing.
(50:20):
I just had a bad experience forsomebody I was working with and
it was time for another change.
And you know I changed it allbecause I needed to.
It felt right to go into adifferent direction and start
looking at stuff a little bitdifferent again.
I like to look in the past andgo okay, not the wisest decision
(50:41):
, so what are we going to do toget it better and to go forward
and just kind of, you know, oneof the things I've had for many,
many years was there's nofinish line, and for me there is
none.
I don't want it to ever have afinish line.
I want to explore and figureout and be a part of it.
And now, so much giving back.
I truthfully enjoy when peoplecome to my events.
(51:03):
It was their first halfmarathon and I remember what
that felt like.
You know I was going to die.
It was like the hardest thingI'd ever done.
And now you go do it.
You know, any given weekday youcan go run 13 miles and just
watching that joy spark withsomebody else has been a big
part of why I do what I do.
Lisa Danylchuk (51:23):
Yeah, absolutely Well.
I want to thank you so much fortaking the time to share your
experience, your story, yourinspiration with us.
I have so many other questions.
We'll address them on the trail, intentional, engaged and that
catalyst being something we'dall describe as pretty traumatic
, right, getting diagnosed withpotentially terminal disease and
(51:55):
getting such intensivetreatment and all these unknowns
.
And I also just want to say,even though we haven't told so
many jokes on this episode, thatTodd Swann is a really funny
person too.
So, like going from havingthese really big, difficult
moments I'd imagine even inthose moments you probably still
(52:17):
use humor like to have yourhumor and your joy alive and to
be thriving in your life is atrue testament, and I love that
you focus too on just dreamingand not having a finish line,
just continuing in the directionof a dream in an ongoing way.
There's something reallyinspiring about that.
Is there anything you'd say tosomeone listening who maybe has
never run in their life or maybeis going through something
(52:39):
really difficult and going oh,could I do that?
Todd Glieden (52:43):
I think for people that are going through things
difficult, let people into yourlives.
Let them share theirexperiences.
You know politics plays a bigpart of all of our lives.
Now Some of my best friends arecompletely on a different
political platform that I'm onand they're great people and I
(53:07):
think even in the world we're intoday we have to share that.
And then for the running part,try something like, like you
said, you don't have to run it.
I started my venture by walking.
I walked around lake merit inoakland for 998 days before I
had my accident with my knee andI learned and met so many
(53:31):
people and let them into mylives.
And then now I get to sharethat back.
So if you haven't run, try it.
Find somebody.
You don't have to go with yourfriends so they don't know how
fast to go or how you dress orwhatever, but do something.
Know how fast to go or how youdress or whatever, but do
(53:54):
something.
And then once you step off thedirt or off the pavement
sidewalk to the dirt, you'llprobably never go back.
Once you hit a trail and yousee stuff and Lisa's experiences
so much with me in my life youknow where we live.
There are magical places inyour backyard.
You have no idea.
It looks like you're inPatagonia or South America, in
(54:14):
the Oakland Hills, and you knowthose experiences, some of my
best experiences of trolling orsitting out in a trail in the
dark at night trying to figureout where I want to go.
Lisa Danylchuk (54:24):
Yeah.
Todd Glieden (54:27):
And.
Lisa Danylchuk (54:27):
I don't like being in the dark by myself.
You enjoy it now.
Todd Glieden (54:29):
So yeah, try it.
Just give yourself thatopportunity to try it.
You won't stop.
Lisa Danylchuk (54:34):
And what's next for you?
Any races you're willing toshare?
Todd Glieden (54:37):
I'm looking to go back up and do some of the
things with the chains and ropesand crawl across things you
fall off of, and I will focus alot on trying to return to
Europe and maybe doing somethingI haven't done, or continuing
just on maybe finishing somethat I haven't finished.
(54:58):
So getting away for five weekswas just a godsend to my mental
health.
I looked forward to not doingsomething every day, but being
out somewhere every day.
So to wake up and say I don'thave anything to do today was a
great, great thing.
Lisa Danylchuk (55:19):
So much medicine .
In that I'm with you.
Todd Glieden (55:22):
It was, but there's so much in my head I had
to do Like, oh, there's allthis new stuff, but that's the
whole joy of it is just.
I think we all work so hard anddo so much.
To take a day to yourself everyonce in a while is just so
important to your health and youknow, recovering to a point of
we're all recovering fromsomething and you have to just
(55:45):
you have to allow yourself thattime and energy on yourself,
just to continue.
Lisa Danylchuk (55:53):
And then there's the races you host in May in
Napa, Turkey, Trots in the fall.
So where can people follow you?
Find out more about the racesthat you host?
Todd Glieden (56:04):
The easiest way to follow me myself is Todd Run on
Facebook or Instagram, and Iown Bay Trail Runners out of the
East Bay and we're, like Lisasaid, in Napa.
And then I also spend a bigtime with Beer City, which is
one of my other joys of drinkingbeer and running and combining
it, and pretty much at every oneof those events and I just
(56:27):
really like the fact that thatthat helps get people out.
There's new things, like youknow.
There's yoga with doggies andgoat yoga.
You can find everything youwant beer yoga, you can find
everything that you want outthere, but you got to try it.
You just can't sit back.
I am willing to go out ofanybody that's listening, that
(56:47):
wants to go on a trail, run, runaround the parking lot, find me
at Todd Run and send me amessage, and I've done this with
many people.
Yes, still contact and stilltalk to and you know you meet.
They may live in Marin andwe're here.
We'll find some place inbetween, okay.
Lisa Danylchuk (57:02):
I can't wait for that.
I want to see the tag photo ofyou and someone who's listening
running around, whatever it is,at whatever day, wherever I mean
you travel around a fair amounttoo, so maybe we'll see a tag
with you on the east coast orthe west coast or anywhere show
me a new trail or, you know, ifyou know a new path by your
house and you're listening, I'llgo with you I love it.
(57:24):
Oh, thank you, and I always askfolks this what brings you hope
?
Todd Glieden (57:37):
I think the future still brings me hope.
It's going to be hard, but Ithink, the hope that I get to
experience as much as I can, andthen, sure, yeah, love it Great
.
Lisa Danylchuk (57:44):
Looking forward to some more miles with you soon
.
Todd Glieden (57:46):
Thank you.
Lisa Danylchuk (57:47):
Thank you, Todd.
Todd Glieden (57:48):
Bye-bye.
Lisa Danylchuk (57:55):
Thanks so much for listening.
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(58:17):
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Before we wrap up for today, Iwant to be clear that this
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It's not advice, nor is it anykind of mental health treatment
(58:38):
or diagnosis.
Your decisions are in yourhands and I encourage you to
consult with any healthcareprofessionals you may need to
support you through your uniquepath.
Thank you.
I'm happy to share that this episode is
sponsored by Ultra Sign Up.
Ultra Sign Up is the leadingmarketplace for discovering,
registering and managing trailrunning events across the United
States.
I've personally been usingUltra Sign Up for over a decade
to find fun adventures, sign upfor events and share
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With a mission to promote thespirit of trail running and
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Visit ultrasignupcom to explorethe possibilities and plan your
next adventure.
Today's episode is alsosponsored by Bay Trail Runners.
(01:14):
Rooted in passion for gettingout on the California trails,
bay Trail Runners was founded byRobert Rhodes in 2012.
When he passed away from cancerin 2021, he chose Todd Gleeden,
our guest today, to take careof the community and continue to
host these inspiring andchallenging events.
One of my very favorites ofthese events is coming soon Napa
(01:36):
Wilderness Trail Runs kicks offthe morning of May 17th.
Whether you're a seasoned trailrunner, just starting out or
just want to come hang out innature, there's a place for you
here.
You might come out for the 10KFun Run, half Marathon, 30k
Scenic Trek that's where you'llfind me.
50k Endurance Challenge or 40Mile Elevation Beast, make it a
(01:59):
weekend adventure by camping outunder the stars and soaking up
the energy and natural beauty bycamping out under the stars and
soaking up the energy andnatural beauty.
And if you'd rather not run butyou still want to be a part of
the fun, you can always cheer orvolunteer.
Volunteers help with setup foodservice and creating a
welcoming and energizingatmosphere.
All runners and volunteers aretreated to a post-event lunch
(02:21):
with burritos, wraps, salad andcold drinks.
A post-event lunch withburritos, wraps, salad and cold
drinks.
You can connect with Bay TrailRunners on Facebook and sign up
for the race directly on UltraSign Up.
Get the links in today's shownotes or go straight to
ultrasignupcom and search NapaWilderness Trail Runs to
register.
Hope to see you there Today.
(02:45):
Our guest is Todd Gleeden.
Todd Gleeden is a testament tohuman resilience and the
transformative power of runningand community, having triumphed
over formidable healthchallenges, including cancer, a
heart attack and a severe kneeinjury.
Todd has not only reclaimed hisphysical strength, but has also
dedicated himself to upliftingothers through the sport he
(03:07):
loves so much.
An accomplished trail runnerhimself, todd's passion for the
sport has been both a personallifeline and a communal bridge.
He channels his experiencesinto mentoring and supporting
fellow runners, emphasizing thetherapeutic and unifying aspects
of being outside together onthe trails.
Through organizing communityruns and participating in
(03:29):
charitable events, toddexemplifies how personal
adversity can be transformedinto collective empowerment.
Today, todd shares hisinspiring story of recovery, how
running played a role in hishealing process and how
connecting with others hassupported his health and healing
.
His love, hope and resilienceare palpable, so you're truly in
(03:51):
for a treat.
Please join me in welcomingTodd to the show.
Welcome to the podcast, ToddGlieden.
I'm so happy to have you here.
We've known each other almost15 years now and I'm really
excited to share you and yourexperience with listeners.
(04:13):
It's a little different.
So I've had a few episodes nowwhere, instead of being super
clinical and interviewing peoplewho are studying things, we're
talking to folks who are goingthrough things, have been
through things and you've beenthrough some things.
Todd Glieden (04:25):
We've been through some things.
Lisa Danylchuk (04:27):
The hope with this is to shine some light on
the everyday healing that'shappening all the time, to
recognize how hard it is it'seasier to talk about healing
trauma than it is to actually gothrough it.
It and I'm hoping thatlisteners can derive some
(04:49):
inspiration, but the kind thatcomes from the reality of you
living through what you've livedthrough and thriving the way
that you're thriving now.
For folks who don't know usfrom running on the trails, Todd
and I met through a runninggroup shout out to Run With Clay
in Oakland.
We've run road races together,trail races together.
We just did 11 miles or so inYosemite the other day,
celebrating life, celebratingtrails, and I'd love for you to
(05:10):
share with folks, Todd, howtrail running became such a
central theme and thing in yourlife.
Todd Glieden (05:20):
I was diagnosed with lymphoma and it was
something that changed my lifeforever in a better way.
A lot of people get reallyfreaked out about cancer and
(05:40):
living with it.
I don't think I discoveredmyself until then, Really had no
direction in my life, was justdoing the day-to-day, working so
hard and getting nowhere andnot knowing if I would ever come
out of that hospital.
The extreme amount of chemosurgeries, everything.
I almost think it didn't affectme how I thought it was going
(06:02):
to affect me.
I thought it was the end of theworld and you just stopped at
this and went home and livedforever long and I enjoyed
watching the people around me.
I think it was harder for themto go through it than me.
(06:23):
I saw a lot of people in thehospital.
I was there for about 90 daysat Stanford and would go home
for a couple hours sometimesbefore I get sick again and go
back.
People that came out of my life, that helped me and were around
(06:43):
me were completely differentthan the people I thought would
be there.
Lisa Danylchuk (06:47):
So interesting right.
Todd Glieden (06:48):
Yeah, people I barely knew come over, give me a
ride, bring me food, and it gotto the point where I just
really enjoyed learning throughthe whole experience and trying
to make the best I could of it.
But I lost a lot of people,people that I worked with every
day and thought I would seeevery day and some I've never
(07:13):
seen in 22 years since then.
So when I got out I'm like newlease on life, let's do this.
It kind of backfired.
I went back after a year or twoof trying to get really healthy
, reverted back to my old ways.
Then I discovered a runninggroup and kind of changed
(07:35):
everything in my world, evenuntil today.
I started slow at you and a lotof people and went from being
very shy and not even wouldapproach people I didn't know.
Lisa Danylchuk (07:49):
That's so funny to me.
Oh, my goodness, I would neverdescribe you that way.
Todd Glieden (07:55):
That was very.
I remember the first time Iwent there I found this group on
Facebook.
Look at the pictures.
There's going to be 15, 20people there.
I'm very nervous about goingand there was two people and I
went up to the wrong group andfrom that day on it became a
part of my healing and a part ofjust trying to make things
(08:18):
better for myself.
Before I could make thingsbetter for others.
And now it's kind of come fullcircle, because I own a running
company and enjoy so much givingthat back to the people that
gave that opportunity to meTraveling the world literally,
you know, spending weeks andmonths in other countries and
(08:41):
being able to share myexperience, and just, I think
part of my joy now is to watchsomebody that has never
experienced whether it's runningor something else do something
they've never done or wanted todo and find out that it's all
right.
Lisa Danylchuk (08:59):
Yeah, that they can do it Right that you can do
it.
Yeah, that's such a beautifulprocess.
I remember meeting someone in ameditation group and I was
running the half marathon at thetime.
You know, early around the timewe met and she was like, oh,
there's no way I could ever dothat.
I was like, oh, you totally can.
And I recommended AmericanHeart Association's training
(09:19):
group and there was one over inAlameda where she was, and I was
like you don't even have to runit, you can walk it, you can
rock it, you can do it howeveryou want to do it, but you can
do it and she did, and shereached back to me and was like
hey, thanks, I was like I knewyou could do it.
Sometimes you just need to be apart of a community that sees
what you can do, or to identifywhat you want and decide to go
(09:40):
for it, right.
Todd Glieden (09:42):
The process started there 22 years ago and
it's never ended.
And there's so much more.
I never thought I would do thethings that I've done.
I've run almost 70 ultramarathons, road marathons,
hundreds of half marathons.
If you look at me standing onthe street, I am not the person
that looks like I run down thestreet, you know, and I was very
(10:07):
competitive and had to be thebest and wanted this, and to me,
now it's.
I just want to be there.
I want to be there with thepeople.
Mm-hmm, I enjoy my time alone.
I enjoy healing in my own world, with nobody around me.
Healing in my own world, withnobody around me, looking at
(10:28):
nature, being there, standing inthe rain, in the mud, and it's
special.
But then, in turn, I likesomebody to enjoy that with me.
Yes, so to go out and give thatexperience to somebody else now
in my life is great feeling.
Yeah.
And strive for it all the time.
Lisa Danylchuk (10:47):
As you're talking, I'm thinking about.
I know there's a video of ussplashing in puddles in the
headlands in Marin, right, andthere are plenty of times where
we'll reach out and just be likewhere are you going this
weekend?
What are you doing?
10 to 30 miles Perfect, let'sgo.
You know so, sometimes going outwith a friend it's planning a
big group and other times and Iknow you and I both appreciate
(11:14):
this a lot just secretsquirreling it, going on your
own or not even telling someoneyou signed up for a big race and
just letting it be yours, maybesharing when you're finished
with it and celebrating together.
But there's something reallynice about what you're
describing in trail running ofyou can be with yourself, you
can be with one other person,and it's nice because even on
runs, you know if we're doing 12to 30 miles, we're going to
(11:34):
talk the whole time.
We can talk at certain points.
You can be together.
You can be together.
Apart.
You can be totally apart, like,oh God, where'd Todd go?
I had to find him on the trailand all of that is a part of it.
I'm wondering what you've cometo love most about trail running
in all these years.
Todd Glieden (11:53):
That there's no end.
Lisa Danylchuk (11:55):
Yeah.
Todd Glieden (11:56):
You can go wherever you want, and I was
having this discussion earlier,you know you think you start out
with a plan for the day.
Lisa Danylchuk (12:06):
Right.
Todd Glieden (12:07):
And it's trail running and you have weather and
obstacles and road closures andtrails that aren't there
anymore and you go and youdiscover things, and it's to me
it's like living.
It's not a structured thing.
I could turn this direction orthat direction, and which am I
going to go?
And as I've gotten older Iusually choose the harder way
(12:31):
because I don't know if I'm evergoing to have that opportunity
again.
I held back in my life so muchgrowing up.
It was so structured You've gotto go to school, graduate, you
have to have a job, a family andall this and it's in your head
that you have to do that.
Now, for me it's the opposite.
All that can happen.
(12:52):
But I need to be happy first,until the cancer kind of scared
me in a way that I realized Ihad to do anything.
And then I am eight or nineyears out from having a heart
attack and that changed it againand I really to the point where
(13:14):
if I don't try it I may neverhave the opportunity.
So I've tried more things sincethen.
I love to tell people I've runall my marathons since I've had
my heart attack.
Lisa Danylchuk (13:28):
Wow.
Todd Glieden (13:28):
And if you add them all up or in the eighties,
and I've never felt better.
It's a struggle with agestruggles.
I've finished them now, butit's something that I, you know.
Until I can't, I will, and whenI can't I'll be there to be a
part of it.
I don't think I'll ever losethat.
(13:50):
Things will change and shift inlife and in the world.
Things are going to be changingin the world we live in,
certainly.
So my goal is to continue doingwhat I'm doing and sharing what
I've been able to go throughand tell people that you don't
have to give up when you havetrauma in your life, when
(14:12):
something happens.
I had this conversation withsomebody this morning and it's
like something didn't go yourway, whether it's physical,
mental, whatever, but you havethe opportunity to do something
about it for the rest of yourlife.
Whether you're here five yearsor 50 years, I have to give
(14:33):
myself that opportunity to giveback.
It's just something that Idon't see myself not doing every
day.
Lisa Danylchuk (14:40):
Can you take us back to?
You've mentioned now beingdiagnosed with lymphoma.
You've mentioned having a heartattack.
Can you take us back one?
You've mentioned now beingdiagnosed with lymphoma.
You've mentioned having a heartattack.
Can you take us back one at atime, to like what was going
through your mind, because itsounds like your experience is
unique and maybe a littledifferent than the norm for a
lot of reasons.
So what was going through yourmind when you first found out
you needed treatment for cancer?
Todd Glieden (15:01):
Very unknown.
I never you know, had neverspent time in a hospital or
through any kind of prolongedtreatment.
I literally thought I wasn'tfeeling good and had the flu,
went into the doctor and I didnot come home for 89 days.
They scanned me, found a hugetumor and I went in the next day
(15:24):
and had my whole entire chestcavity from top to bottom opened
, taken out.
It was cancerous, the tumor, soI went straight into treatment.
I think the biggest shock waschecking in for the treatment at
Stanford and my mom was with meand basically make arrangements
(15:50):
to not be there tomorrow ifsomething happens.
Do you have somebody to signyour stuff over to?
You know, executor, you want togo to the fertility clinic
before we start this in an hour?
And it's basically a sign here.
And I just kind of was in shockand I handled it pretty well.
(16:12):
But I had a lot of time.
I was there, like I said, 90days and I would go days without
seeing people Lying in ahospital bed with IVs on both
sides, I think, 130 staplesstill and not being able to call
out.
This is before I had a PDA.
(16:36):
I didn't have a cell phone thatyou could type in and text all
the time and just kind of beingthere by yourself was a scary
thing, because I had days whereI never thought I would come
home.
You have really dark days wherethe treatment is harsh and you
feel crazy.
And, to top things off, thiswas seven days after 9-11.
(16:59):
So the only thing that was onTV every single channel that the
three or four in the hospitalwas 9-11.
Watching 24-7, people gettingrescued, the towers, the planes.
So you're completely eithernumb to it and turn it off or
(17:21):
watch day by day.
Well, they had it bad.
I was in an older wing in thehospital and there wasn't much
to see and things slowly startedchanging.
I slowly started getting out ofbed, took my IV on a little
walker with me it was an olderbut nice hospital.
I found my way down to thecafeteria in a Starbucks that
(17:44):
was my day to try to make itdown there and back.
I was right next to LucyPackard's Children's Hospital.
There was a lot of eitherbabies being born or babies
going through care.
I would go over to the maternityward and look through the
window and look at new lifestarting through the window and
(18:08):
look at new life starting, andit was the way I spent my day
just trying to get through itand not planned.
But my grandmother ended upthere a couple floors above me
with breast cancer treatment andmy cousin was in the pain and
back area.
So for several weeks I hadrelatives there that I can sit
(18:28):
next to them, and then I haddays where there was nobody.
People that just showed up.
I would turn around andsomebody I barely knew from work
would be there with a bag or astuffed animal or a plant or
something and it's like I reallydidn't expect animal or a plant
or something, and it's like Ireally didn't expect.
Lisa Danylchuk (18:50):
It sounds like people showing up for you was
really important and seeingsomething in these people who
maybe you didn't even know thatwell, there was a openness or a
kindness or a generosity or care.
How would you describe howthose people impacted your
experience while you're in thehospital or even after?
Todd Glieden (19:05):
All positive.
For me it was the caring thatthey took time out of their
lives.
With everything going on with9-11.
We didn't know, you know westill weren't flying, we
couldn't travel.
They found that time.
You know they're busy.
I was not close to where I wasworking.
My parents were, you know, mymom was six hours away, my dad
was an hour and a half away, mybrothers and sisters but then I
(19:29):
people I really expected to bethere never showed up.
So I kind of had to put that inperspective.
They I can handle that, I don'tthink they can.
And you know my roommate wouldcome over a couple of days,
bring me food or things, thingsthat I wanted to see or, and you
(19:50):
know, those 15 minutes to anhour became so special.
I do remember I was in there forone of my birthdays and knew I
wasn't coming out, but then, asmy treatment started to get
towards the end, it wasthanksgiving and I was looking
(20:10):
so forward to being home stillnot feeling well at all At that
point no hair, very skinny, veryfragile, but just being at home
and being able to sit on thesofa for Thanksgiving.
Then I got a fever again and Ididn't get checked out to the
day after Thanksgiving, so itwas before Zoom and all this.
I got a call from my parents onThanksgiving Day and just so
(20:35):
much wanted to be there and Iwent through my time where I got
mad because I wasn't doingthings I wanted to do.
But looking back, I thinkthat's actually what helped To
have the time to focus andreally think about it, to have
(20:59):
the time to focus and reallythink about it.
And it was different with theheart attack, because my first
question I asked is when am Igetting out of here?
You know that one scared me butsince I had been through
something before, that one wasmore like when do I get back?
What I've now learned that Ican do, because I had 10 years
in between them and I had come along way in those 10 years and
(21:21):
kind of had come out of my shell, made a place where I wanted to
be in my running community anda part of everything, and I was
bound and determined that thatwasn't going to stop.
Lisa Danylchuk (21:32):
It sounds like the first experience was very
unknown, but there's also thisawakening to the value of life
and the possibility and yourchoices, that you can choose not
just to do it how it's beenexpected of you or societal
expectations, but you can do itand you can live the way that
(21:52):
feels good to you and you canmake choices every day.
And knowing that life isn'tforever increases the value of
each day.
And so there's this making thebest of it.
And then, 10 years later, heartattack and you're like when can
I get back to just living mylife?
Todd Glieden (22:10):
My heart attack was on a Monday or Tuesday.
I was home within two or threedays, recovered pretty well,
went back to work probablywithin two weeks.
I had stints put in and youknow it was a lot easier.
The process seemed way too easy.
It really did.
I was in great shape, I was afast runner, things had really
(22:35):
come full circle and I was happywith where I was at.
It happened because of my pasthealth.
I tried to run four weeks afterand couldn't.
I couldn't.
I mean I wasn't even walkingthe distance.
I wanted to because of theheart attack and opted to go on
some more stronger medicine, hadsome more tests done and
(23:00):
voluntarily decided to haveanother stent put in.
And a lot of people very fewknow this.
I was went in on a Tuesday.
I was out like Wednesday night,had my other stint put in
Probably the scariest thing, Iwill still say probably the
scariest thing I ever did Havingthe stint put in and closing me
(23:23):
up and we're doing everythinggetting out of there.
The hospital staff was great,wide awake during the whole
thing.
I started to flutter and myheart started to stop.
My heart rate goes down to like13 beats a minute.
Everybody that had left comesback and adrenaline set in,
because you don't know if you'regoing to make it.
(23:43):
And I just instantly you knowsweating adrenaline.
They're trying to keep me awakeand I wanted to go to sleep.
I kept telling them I need togo to sleep and then you know
people, they're moving you,they're trying not to, and then
slowly starts going back up.
It gets to a certain level.
They all disappear again.
Okay, it's over.
That was on a Tuesday, and onFriday I went with a friend to
(24:09):
the city and ran a half marathon.
Lisa Danylchuk (24:11):
Oh, stop it, Todd, okay.
So what do you say to peoplewho are like, no, you should be
resting, cause.
I know you, your doctors Idon't know if your doctor knew
about that half marathon, buthow do you manage that?
Cause Here now you have thispassion and you want to get back
out, which I think people canrelate to.
I always think of this quote.
That's like if your soul wantsto dance, then resting is
(24:34):
stressful and dance is restful.
I wanted to dance, yeah, and soI get that.
And then I know people justhave strong reactions around
like, oh, my goodness, you needto heal.
Tell us about that halfmarathon and how did it feel and
what did your doctor say whenyou came back around?
Todd Glieden (24:53):
So I went out with a friend and I seem to do this
to a lot of people these daysmyself but she's like I'm
training, I've got to go do this, I'm going to go run and run
ahead of you Got your phone ifyou have any problems.
My whole thing about healingand you know I talked myself
into it, whether it was good,bad or indifferent, I never did
anything I didn't feelcompletely safe with.
(25:16):
If I felt I was going to have aheart attack or something was
going to happen, I wouldn't havedone it and, like I said, I
think as I'm getting older, I'mtaking more risks like that
because I don't want to be thatperson that's not seen again and
not heard of again becausesomething happened.
I want to be on the oppositeend of it and even now, doing
(25:37):
what I do when I travel abroadevery year, I have to go through
a lot of tests treadmill tests,scans, ultrasounds, my heart
and a lot of that is all on myown, other than maybe needing a
sign out from a doctor, otherthan maybe needing a sign-off
from a doctor.
My process to heal myself and tobe where I want to be is to
(25:58):
make sure I'm doing everything Ican.
So everybody's like we'll seeyou next year.
I still go to the doctor, evenfor my lymphoma.
Every three to four months Iget my blood test and to me
that's my process, that's what'ssound in my head, that I can
continue this.
And we've had incidents whereI've been told well, that's not
(26:20):
too good, or what can you do.
I do think a lot of it ismental and you know what we've
gone through with elections andpeople and power.
I think that affects all of itfor me.
It's just not me, it's theworld I live in and I don't want
to say how do I make it abetter place?
I make it better for me.
(26:42):
So I can hopefully share thatwith somebody else.
Lisa Danylchuk (26:46):
Well, I think that's, by definition, what
you're doing right.
You found a love of trailrunning and now that's a big
part of your work and you hostevents for other people and you
invite them in.
I hear so many points ofresilience, or what we might
even call post-traumatic growth,in here, like recognizing the
value of life, valuing life,valuing the opportunity you have
(27:09):
each day to choose to do whatyou love.
The opportunity you have eachday to choose to do what you
love.
Also, even recognizing anger asappropriate and adaptive like
that was helpful.
That helped me move forward.
Todd Glieden (27:21):
A lot of my anger.
I think it's there because Icare.
If you don't care, I don'treally think you're going to get
angry about anything.
Why do I care?
Why don't I just let thingshappen like other people?
And it's just like I've triedso hard to be where I'm at that
I do care.
So I get angry and sometimes Istep back and go.
(27:42):
Is it worth it?
Can I walk away from it?
Do I need to be by myself for acouple of days?
Do I need to find my peaceagain?
I post a lot of pictures, thingsfor people to see, and a lot of
them end with peace or to liveyour best life and my best life
is definitely not somebodyelse's.
I put a lot of pressure onmyself to do what I want to do.
(28:05):
Working for myself in the lastfour years has been a huge
relief emotionally, maybe notfinancially, but to answer to
myself and not somebody that'smaking a decision for me is a
huge step.
I was really afraid, after thepandemic and after a bad job, to
(28:25):
take my future into my ownhands.
I can go back and get acorporate job like I've had.
I went from training hundredsof people in a huge company to
trying to train myself to be whoI want to be.
It's sometimes really hard.
I have no problem now standingin front of a thousand people
and talking, which 10, 15 yearsago you couldn't get me in front
(28:47):
of three people to talk, talk.
Lisa Danylchuk (28:49):
And I just have to let listeners know that Todd
is someone that if I go on anytrail not even just in
California, like we could be inFrance and we'll run by someone
like hey Todd, like everyoneknows so many people in the
running community, and I'll belike how do you know?
Cause these are people I don'tknow.
(29:10):
I've been on a lot of runs withyou, I've been a lot of places,
have been in some of the samegroups, but how do you know them
?
How do you know them?
Just different events, justgetting to know folks.
I mean to hear you call yourselfshy or any of those things is
so I mean it's laughable to menow.
But I get it right.
Of course I believe you and Itrust you.
I just want people to know thejuxtaposition of what you're
(29:32):
describing as before, or yourinternal experience, and what
people would see if they justwent for a run with you.
They'd be like this is the mostsocial person I've ever met.
Everyone knows them.
There've been times wheresomeone's run by and been like
hey, todd, how's it going?
You're like hey, what's up?
And I'm like who's that?
And you're like I'm not sure.
Todd Glieden (29:49):
That caught me off guard.
Like the first or second time Iever went to France.
I signed up on an app here inAmerica for a meetup and I'm
like, okay, you know it's socialmeetup for this, that running
dates.
And I'm like I went to mylittle meetup group and put
myself through the subway.
I had no idea where I'm going.
No, not one person you know.
And this is through thisprocess that I'm not as shy
(30:11):
anymore.
But I literally walk across thestreet and some guy comes up
and goes oh Todd, you're goingto be here.
I saw something and knew me fromhere and it's like that stuff
catches you off guard and, likeyou said, in the mountains of
France running with somebody,they turn around and see you.
Maybe a year ago I was up inthe Marin Headlands running and
(30:33):
I had run with a girl at nightin 29 Palms 15 years ago when
the Boston bombing happened.
We ran a relay race togetherand I'm running in Marin in the
light and she ran up to me andremembered me.
From there we have talked offand on for many, many years but
our lives have not crossed sincethen.
(30:55):
Those are things that I reallyget excited about and can catch
up with that person and wherethey're at now in their lives.
And she just had a baby and gotmarried.
I met this girl on a run in thedesert 15 years ago.
It is a small world and, to yourpoint, with the trill I think,
what I think set me differentfrom any other sport that I've
(31:17):
ever watched or been a part of.
When tragedy happens to a groupor one of us, the community is
unbelievable and supportive.
I don't think without thatsupport I would be where I am
Just unconditional support.
Sometimes People rally around.
We've lost friends in thecommunity for one reason or
(31:40):
another and somebody is alwaysthere.
I think it's special.
You don't see that in the worldwe live in much anymore.
As our community gets largerand larger, being a small part
of it is special to me.
It just it means a lot.
Yeah, I had no idea when I metyou all that there were groups
(32:06):
and running people and peopledid things.
I'll be honest with you at youknow, probably 25 years old, 35
years old, when I met thesepeople I didn't know what a
marathon was.
I didn't know people went anddid stuff like this and it's
really broadened my horizons inthe world.
It can take you to every singlecorner of the world.
It literally can and has, andwill continue to.
Lisa Danylchuk (32:31):
There's something so beautiful, I think,
about the community that we metthrough too, because it was so
like, naturally diverse andloving and like that group
literally the people that youwould ask for a ride to the
airport would give you, bringfood to your house when you were
sick or, if you had a baby, setup a food train, right, like
(32:52):
there was something about theculture of that group, cause I
did join other.
I was coaching with America.
I was participant for Americanheart association.
That was coaching with Americanheart association, with some of
those people, and it was reallyspecial and we all felt so
connected and supportive of eachother.
And then I went and coached foranother group that recruited me
and I swear people just likeshowed up and started their
watches.
I was a coach and I was like Ican change this Right, like I
(33:13):
can.
I was co-coaching and I wastrying to bring something to it
that felt like our group and itwas challenging.
There's something about Clay whostarted Run With Clay,
obviously and about the peoplethat gravitated and stuck in
that group.
That was and is really healingand that I see as crucial in
(33:37):
terms of having this safe spacewhere you can share, that you're
recovering from somethingmedical, you can be yourself
fully right.
There's so many differenthealing models and things that I
just see how all that shows upin there and I love that you
have continued to create thatspace through even casual runs
(33:58):
that you host, but definitelythrough your organized events.
It's very welcoming andinclusive and family-like, and I
think trail running is unique.
Maybe folks have this in roadrunning too, but I think trail
running because of thatconnection with nature, because
there's sometimes a little morerisk of I'm going to climb up
this cliff hey, can you hold myhand?
Stranger I've never met.
(34:18):
What's your name?
Now that you've seen me cry, Ithink there could be more
vulnerability there.
But with that vulnerabilitythere can also be more genuine
connection.
So, yeah, as you're describingthat, I'm thinking about the
healing impacts of the communityin your life, in all our lives.
Right For me too.
Todd Glieden (34:37):
I think the community is a bunch of people
that needed to be healed.
If you look at it, there is ahuge portion of the running
community that are allrecovering from some addiction.
A lot of drug and alcoholrecovery ends up in trail
running.
They have a new addiction now,just like I had.
I had to be out on the trailevery single day.
(34:59):
I don't think the communitylets you go backwards, because I
don't know anybody that'sjoined that community and has
been able to flip and go back,because there's always somebody
there to help them, to help themheal.
They post things I'm not doing,doing good today, and the
amount of people that write thenand there to help that person
(35:20):
and get them back to where theyneed to go.
I don't see that in a lot ofother things.
I know if I ever needed helpagain for anything, I could post
something.
When I came out of breaking mykneecap there was the knee
kneecap I posted something likeI need a ride to the farmer's
market.
(35:40):
I had a lady that I did notknow respond to my post and she
came and picked me up in her carand we spent the day at the
farmer's market and to havesomebody show up.
Of course I did a littleresearch.
Yeah, she knows this friend ofmine, that friend of mine.
Okay, you know, I'm not gettingkidnapped, I'm going to make it
(36:02):
back.
And it was like, okay, that wasjust an experience.
And, like I said, people comeout to help because I think I've
given that back so much and Ithink a lot of it is listening
and seeing what people want.
They'll tell you.
It might be indirect, butpeople will tell you that
they're in need of some help orthey figure it out.
Sometimes I'm kind of quiet andpeople give me a call or text,
(36:24):
everything all right, youhaven't been out in a couple of
days and that's not my norm.
So, yeah, something's going on.
I will go out on a trail andI'll find somebody.
Hey, you want to meet here andthat's again.
That's my healing process.
There's so much going on ineverybody's lives.
We have to let each other helpeach other and the more you open
(36:47):
up to that, you make lifefriends.
I'm really proud to say I couldgo probably anywhere in the
world and find somebody I'veknown or corresponded with that
I could stay with.
Or, you know, help me find mynext adventure and cherish that
a lot.
Don't want that to go away andas I get older into this, the
(37:09):
more and more I cherish that to.
Lisa Danylchuk (37:12):
You know be to learn from other people yeah,
there's a couple other thingsyou mentioned that I just want
to highlight because there's youknow, of course I hear things
through the trauma therapistbrain, because that's what I
have.
When you talk about becomingself-employed and you're like
maybe it was a little bitfinancially stressful but it was
(37:35):
emotionally really healing,that to me is the definition of
empowerment, Same thing withgoing from living a life that's
expected of you to living a lifethat you actively choose.
So often in trauma recovery wetalk about feeling disempowered,
because a lot of times whenthere's something traumatic,
it's something that sort ofhappens to us.
(37:55):
It's not like we choose it.
Of course there's infinitevariability in how things happen
, but for the most part it'slike I just happened to be in
the wrong place at the wrongtime, or I just happened to have
this medical condition anddidn't know, or I just happened
into this relationship that wastoxic we could talk about all
these other conditions around itbut that in and of itself can
(38:18):
be very disempowering to havesomething happen that was not
what you wanted, that washarmful to you, that was even
violent, or it was a near-deathexperience, so for you to have
the reaction and I think this isexactly what we talk about in
terms of post-traumatic growth,like I'm going to reclaim my
life.
I didn't even know, I wasn'tclaiming it, I'm going to claim
it now and I'm going to value itand I'm going to recognize my
(38:41):
emotions, I'm going to trustmyself.
You also talked about going onthat run right after your heart
surgery which, again, like sure,your doctor was like, well, I'm
glad you're okay after you didit.
But, like you were, you werelistening to your body.
You're like I never didanything where I didn't feel
safe.
Right, I know when you'rerunning, you have heart
medication with you and that ifsomething happens, that I am to
(39:05):
give you this heart medication.
So just having that sense ofcommunity that you've described,
having that sense ofempowerment, having people there
to help you feel safe, but alsotrusting yourself around, that
I mean you even described it inlike, oh here's, this wonderful
community member is going totake me to the farmer's market.
Let me look them up first.
Okay, I feel safe, let's go.
(39:26):
And then the other thing I wantto highlight is this slow,
everyday, step-by-step.
You're in the hospital for 89,90 days and you don't know
what's going to happen, butyou're there and then you go to
Starbucks, come back, and thenyou see your relative on another
floor and come back.
And it's just, I think, a lotof people when we are going
through the thick of trauma,like it's hard.
(39:49):
If I went and visited you thenmagically and was like hi, todd,
I'm your friend from the future, you're going to run ultra
marathons You'd be like what?
Who are you Get out of here,crazy person?
What are you even talking?
It's just not meeting you whereyou are.
And I think it can be hard whenwe're in that place where our
(40:10):
day is walking down the hall andback.
Sometimes that can be reallyhard to just sit with and be
with and trust that things willchange.
But for anyone who's listening,who helps people through trauma
, who's in the thick of trauma,I think we know this like really
slow, gentle, step-by-step canmove mountains, can have you
(40:31):
moving all over the mountains.
Todd Glieden (40:33):
Can have you hanging off the mountain, can
have you hanging off themountain and hopefully you
hanging off the mountains, onthe right ropes, right, yeah,
todd, does those like um, whatdo you call?
Lisa Danylchuk (40:42):
the one in at broken arrow, the via ferrata,
the like where you're?
Oh, I'm like, once it turnsinto rock climbing, I'm good, I
want to be on my feet.
But yeah, todd, does the extraextra.
Todd Glieden (40:55):
Those things, you know, have made me even more
sure that I need to continuedoing what I'm doing.
I think every year now, and Iwant to say in the last five
years, even since my runningspeed has slowed down a little
bit because everything justfalls apart on the body, has
(41:19):
slowed down a little bit becauseeverything just falls apart on
the body.
You know, I think challengingmyself with shorter, harder
things has really become whatI've enjoyed so much.
I like hanging off the cliffnow and going someplace where I
never even dreamed pictures weretaken from there.
You know I have my heart set ondoing some things in the next
couple of years and I keep ongetting super close and then
(41:42):
have to back off.
I don't want to die today but Ireally need to do this because
my head that I want to do andthen really reality check that
(42:06):
hey, I just did that and Idreamed that and I want to be
there.
You know it's not an easy task.
I'm very okay sharing that it'snot an easy task.
I'm very okay sharing thatSometimes getting help and
working with a therapist orpeople around you to get through
some of these things that scareyou and you're not sure about
(42:28):
is part of the whole process ofmaking it better, and I believe
my healing from my younger lifeis an ongoing, continually thing
.
I might tell myself, get out ofthe situation I was in, but
there's always something therefor the future and I'm not
(42:49):
afraid of it.
I'm not afraid of a failure, ofnot being able to do everything
I want to do, but I'm gonna try.
There's always somebody outthere that has done something.
I able to do everything I wantto do, but I'm going to try.
There's always somebody outthere that has done something I
want to do.
To surround yourself by thosepeople and have them push you a
(43:10):
little bit to get to your goalshas been a big part of my life.
I wouldn't have gone on a lot ofthese adventures unless
somebody showed me.
Sometimes I look back and go.
I wish you wouldn't have shownme that, because now I've got to
do it, but I enjoy it.
I enjoy those thoughts everyday and I really do enjoy
dreaming and trying to figureout like, oh, what can I get
myself into?
Then again, I'm realistic withwhat my body can handle and my
(43:33):
age and financials.
I'm not going to be able to doeverything, but I'm going to try
as much as I can.
Lisa Danylchuk (43:39):
And what I hear in that, too, is chasing your
dreams.
And as you describe, chasingyour dreams, I just have visions
of the vertical kilometer andShamoni and me following you up
there and then getting to thepoint where I'm like, wait, I
have to climb over what my heartis in my throat.
Do I go back down or do I keepgoing up?
I'm going to keep going up.
I got this right, like thosemoments of courage.
(44:00):
It's not.
I mean, I know we all havedifferent fear thresholds and I
think it's important to respectthat, but there are moments
where there's a challenge,something you're not.
It's not just rote habit.
Right, you were talking aboutpeople coming from perhaps some
folks coming from addiction intotrail running, and you can just
use it as a new addiction oryou can use it as a healthy
(44:21):
habit and you can use thesemoments as kind of training,
like mini life experiences,right?
Okay, here's this thing.
It looks hard, what am I goingto do with that and how am I
going to work?
I mean, my approach is alwayslike how am I going to work with
myself and we all do itdifferently but how am I going
to do with that and how am Igoing to work.
I mean, my approach is alwayslike how am I going to work with
myself and we all do itdifferently but how am I going
to encourage myself through this, recognize the strength that I
(44:43):
have, recognize the supportsthat I have.
There are times where it's like, no, we're not going to go that
way.
Ooh, the weather feels weird.
Let's turn around like ahundred percent right, we're
like looking to have eachother's back and be safe.
We can develop these habits,not only of being outdoors and
(45:03):
being in community and being onthe trail and getting healthy
exercise, but also of learninghow we tick and what's the best
way to grow and what do we dowhen we get scared and all those
things.
I mean, I don't know if youknow this.
The first time I did BrokenArrow, which, for those of you
listening who don't know, it's arace in Tahoe that started in
2016.
(45:24):
Alex and I did the first onetogether.
It was a 52K race.
At the time I didn't know therewas a ladder involved in it.
We got to the ladder, which is,for those listening, at the top
of the mountain.
It's rocky.
There's like pretty much cliffson both sides.
I mean, it's bolted in and it'ssolid and strong, but it's also
very scary.
And I got there and I wouldjust started crying and I was
(45:45):
like no, we're going back downthe way we came.
And Alex was like okay, andthen I was like no, I don't want
to go back down the way we came.
I want to get through this.
Like that's really scary andthanks for letting me have my
feelings about it.
But now can we go, please?
And Alex and I are both reallyaware of this too.
He's been in emergency servicesfor so long where we're not
dysregulated, pushing forward,like, oh, I'm so afraid I'm
(46:07):
going to fall.
I'm just going to plow forward.
No, like we're going to stop,we're going to pause, I'm going
to have my feelings, I'm goingto cry on your shoulder.
Then we're going to slowlybreathe and hold on tight and
hold on to the rope while wemove forward through this scary
thing.
So I think there's so manyexperiences like that.
It's one of the reasons I lovetrail running, because there's
unexpected views and inspiration.
(46:28):
There's unexpected moments ofdecision-making, of like, hmm,
is this safe?
Okay, I just saw someone gobefore me.
So, yeah, it seems like it is,but maybe it's not for me and
I'm going to take the trailinstead of the ladder today, and
I just have never met anyone.
I've met people that are reallyencouraging, but I've never,
(46:48):
like I would never expect to beon a trail and you'd be like, oh
, you didn't do the ladder.
You'd be like, oh, cool, allright, you're going to go that
way, I'm going to go this way.
Todd Glieden (47:02):
I'll meet you on the other side.
I just feel like people are sounderstanding and supportive of
that.
It's about so much more.
I remember your second ultramarathon.
I still was in my cast frombreaking my knee and I ran the
last three miles with you.
We had all these people thatwere supposed to show up and it
ended up being you and me forthe last couple miles and you
just took off and I'm still inthis movable, bendable cast and
(47:23):
I was supposed to be there but Icouldn't make it that year
because I couldn't run too well.
I remember doing it the nextyear by myself and I had never
run a marathon.
And then I am running thisultra marathon.
For those that don't know, it'smore than a marathon.
So I'm running this 50k and Imade it to the marathon point on
(47:46):
a trail by myself andcompletely broke down.
So, I'm like I've just conqueredone of the dreams I wanted to
do by running the marathon.
I made it so.
Now, if I have to walk the nextsix miles, I'm all right with
that and I'm all good, all good.
Um, that was my first of like.
(48:07):
I said like maybe 80 ago and itwas my fastest.
Well then, the next year I gotin and ran the New York City
Marathon.
It was my first road marathon,an experience I'll never forget
in my life the support, thepeople.
I can remember every corner,just being there with 50,000
(48:30):
other people and we all have adream to finish.
You're surrounded by all thesepeople, but you're so alone in
your focus and what you want toaccomplish.
I've run it one more time.
I sign up every year to try toget in and it was just an
experience I'll never forgetRunning through every borough,
seeing every type of person inthe world cheering for you,
(48:53):
people you don't know running upand slapping their hand or
taking a candy or a drink fromthem, people you would never
talk to being out there.
I think my favorite part wasgoing through Harlem just the
cheers and the people screamingso loud back at them you lose
your voice and the high, youknow, they a lot of time,
(49:15):
especially in racing.
We'll call it a runner's high.
I think that was probably mybiggest high of finishing that
and and and.
You know, I want to say it wasfor me, but I just think it was
for my being just something Ihad hoped for so long.
I went to New York for my 40thbirthday.
(49:36):
My mom asked me where I wantedto go and gave me all these
options and I went there withher.
Never run a day in my life,never had run more than 100
yards in my life.
We just happened to go on mybirthday weekend, which is right
.
At the same time, the marathonis watching people do this.
I told her one day I will dothis and my hair is really long
(49:59):
and I'll cut my hair the day Ido this.
And um, it was like nine yearslater that I finally did it.
And then, you know, the hairstayed for probably 10 more
years.
I just kept on upping it like,okay, we got to run this one for
my first 50 miler, I'll do this, you know.
And it was finally.
It was another life thing.
(50:20):
I just had a bad experience forsomebody I was working with and
it was time for another change.
And you know I changed it allbecause I needed to.
It felt right to go into adifferent direction and start
looking at stuff a little bitdifferent again.
I like to look in the past andgo okay, not the wisest decision
(50:41):
, so what are we going to do toget it better and to go forward
and just kind of, you know, oneof the things I've had for many,
many years was there's nofinish line, and for me there is
none.
I don't want it to ever have afinish line.
I want to explore and figureout and be a part of it.
And now, so much giving back.
I truthfully enjoy when peoplecome to my events.
(51:03):
It was their first halfmarathon and I remember what
that felt like.
You know I was going to die.
It was like the hardest thingI'd ever done.
And now you go do it.
You know, any given weekday youcan go run 13 miles and just
watching that joy spark withsomebody else has been a big
part of why I do what I do.
Lisa Danylchuk (51:23):
Yeah, absolutely Well.
I want to thank you so much fortaking the time to share your
experience, your story, yourinspiration with us.
I have so many other questions.
We'll address them on the trail, intentional, engaged and that
catalyst being something we'dall describe as pretty traumatic
, right, getting diagnosed withpotentially terminal disease and
(51:55):
getting such intensivetreatment and all these unknowns
.
And I also just want to say,even though we haven't told so
many jokes on this episode, thatTodd Swann is a really funny
person too.
So, like going from havingthese really big, difficult
moments I'd imagine even inthose moments you probably still
(52:17):
use humor like to have yourhumor and your joy alive and to
be thriving in your life is atrue testament, and I love that
you focus too on just dreamingand not having a finish line,
just continuing in the directionof a dream in an ongoing way.
There's something reallyinspiring about that.
Is there anything you'd say tosomeone listening who maybe has
never run in their life or maybeis going through something
(52:39):
really difficult and going oh,could I do that?
Todd Glieden (52:43):
I think for people that are going through things
difficult, let people into yourlives.
Let them share theirexperiences.
You know politics plays a bigpart of all of our lives.
Now Some of my best friends arecompletely on a different
political platform that I'm onand they're great people and I
(53:07):
think even in the world we're intoday we have to share that.
And then for the running part,try something like, like you
said, you don't have to run it.
I started my venture by walking.
I walked around lake merit inoakland for 998 days before I
had my accident with my knee andI learned and met so many
(53:31):
people and let them into mylives.
And then now I get to sharethat back.
So if you haven't run, try it.
Find somebody.
You don't have to go with yourfriends so they don't know how
fast to go or how you dress orwhatever, but do something.
Know how fast to go or how youdress or whatever, but do
(53:54):
something.
And then once you step off thedirt or off the pavement
sidewalk to the dirt, you'llprobably never go back.
Once you hit a trail and yousee stuff and Lisa's experiences
so much with me in my life youknow where we live.
There are magical places inyour backyard.
You have no idea.
It looks like you're inPatagonia or South America, in
(54:14):
the Oakland Hills, and you knowthose experiences, some of my
best experiences of trolling orsitting out in a trail in the
dark at night trying to figureout where I want to go.
Lisa Danylchuk (54:24):
Yeah.
Todd Glieden (54:27):
And.
Lisa Danylchuk (54:27):
I don't like being in the dark by myself.
You enjoy it now.
Todd Glieden (54:29):
So yeah, try it.
Just give yourself thatopportunity to try it.
You won't stop.
Lisa Danylchuk (54:34):
And what's next for you?
Any races you're willing toshare?
Todd Glieden (54:37):
I'm looking to go back up and do some of the
things with the chains and ropesand crawl across things you
fall off of, and I will focus alot on trying to return to
Europe and maybe doing somethingI haven't done, or continuing
just on maybe finishing somethat I haven't finished.
(54:58):
So getting away for five weekswas just a godsend to my mental
health.
I looked forward to not doingsomething every day, but being
out somewhere every day.
So to wake up and say I don'thave anything to do today was a
great, great thing.
Lisa Danylchuk (55:19):
So much medicine .
In that I'm with you.
Todd Glieden (55:22):
It was, but there's so much in my head I had
to do Like, oh, there's allthis new stuff, but that's the
whole joy of it is just.
I think we all work so hard anddo so much.
To take a day to yourself everyonce in a while is just so
important to your health and youknow, recovering to a point of
we're all recovering fromsomething and you have to just
(55:45):
you have to allow yourself thattime and energy on yourself,
just to continue.
Lisa Danylchuk (55:53):
And then there's the races you host in May in
Napa, Turkey, Trots in the fall.
So where can people follow you?
Find out more about the racesthat you host?
Todd Glieden (56:04):
The easiest way to follow me myself is Todd Run on
Facebook or Instagram, and Iown Bay Trail Runners out of the
East Bay and we're, like Lisasaid, in Napa.
And then I also spend a bigtime with Beer City, which is
one of my other joys of drinkingbeer and running and combining
it, and pretty much at every oneof those events and I just
(56:27):
really like the fact that thatthat helps get people out.
There's new things, like youknow.
There's yoga with doggies andgoat yoga.
You can find everything youwant beer yoga, you can find
everything that you want outthere, but you got to try it.
You just can't sit back.
I am willing to go out ofanybody that's listening, that
(56:47):
wants to go on a trail, run, runaround the parking lot, find me
at Todd Run and send me amessage, and I've done this with
many people.
Yes, still contact and stilltalk to and you know you meet.
They may live in Marin andwe're here.
We'll find some place inbetween, okay.
Lisa Danylchuk (57:02):
I can't wait for that.
I want to see the tag photo ofyou and someone who's listening
running around, whatever it is,at whatever day, wherever I mean
you travel around a fair amounttoo, so maybe we'll see a tag
with you on the east coast orthe west coast or anywhere show
me a new trail or, you know, ifyou know a new path by your
house and you're listening, I'llgo with you I love it.
(57:24):
Oh, thank you, and I always askfolks this what brings you hope
?
Todd Glieden (57:37):
I think the future still brings me hope.
It's going to be hard, but Ithink, the hope that I get to
experience as much as I can, andthen, sure, yeah, love it Great
.
Lisa Danylchuk (57:44):
Looking forward to some more miles with you soon
.
Todd Glieden (57:46):
Thank you.
Lisa Danylchuk (57:47):
Thank you, Todd.
Todd Glieden (57:48):
Bye-bye.
Lisa Danylchuk (57:55):
Thanks so much for listening.
Don't forget to go tohowwecanhealcom to sign up for
email updates.
You'll also find additionaltrainings, tons of helpful
resources and the fulltranscript of each and every
show.
If you love the show, pleaseleave us a review on Apple,
spotify, audible or wherever youget your podcasts.
If you're watching on YouTube,be sure to like and subscribe
(58:17):
and keep sharing the shows youlove the most with all your
friends.
Visit howwecanhealcom backslashpodcast to share your thoughts
and ideas for the show.
I always love hearing from you.
Before we wrap up for today, Iwant to be clear that this
podcast isn't offeringprescriptions.
It's not advice, nor is it anykind of mental health treatment
(58:38):
or diagnosis.
Your decisions are in yourhands and I encourage you to
consult with any healthcareprofessionals you may need to
support you through your uniquepath.
Thank you.
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