May 12, 2025 • 56 mins
What happens when a casual curiosity about trail running transforms into a life-changing journey of service? Bugi's remarkable story unfolds as she recounts her evolution from a nervous first-timer at a Brazen Racing event to becoming "the other Kenyan" – an ultra runner who now feeds 42 children daily through her foundation in rural Kenya.
The magic of the trail running community shines throughout this conversation as Bugi describes finding her people through those long, vulnerable hours spent traversing mountains together. "When you spend six or seven hours with someone, you become real," she explains, highlighting how these connections sustained her through profound grief after losing her mother. Running became her constant companion through life's challenges – a space for processing emotions, finding clarity, and building self-belief.
Most powerfully, Bugi shares the genesis of the Okullo Foundation, which began with a simple act of kindness: paying a child's $6 school fees after finding him unable to attend class. What started as addressing an immediate need evolved into a comprehensive program providing meals, education, healthcare, and hygiene products to kindergarteners at a school just steps from her family home. Through donations from her American running community, these children now have backpacks, proper toilets, clean water, and nutritious food – transforming their educational experience and health outcomes.
Beyond her service work, Bugi offers wisdom about overcoming fears, building confidence, and embracing community. Her journey from doubting her abilities to setting ambitious ultra-running goals mirrors her approach to community service: start where you are, take one step at a time, and trust that showing up matters. As she puts it, "What brings me hope is that kindness and empathy still exist."
Ready to be inspired by how one person's passion can create ripples of positive change? Listen now and discover how the simple act of lacing up your shoes might lead to unexpected purpose. And if Bugi's story moves you, she extends an open invitation to visit Kenya and see the foundation's work firsthand!
Learn more about the Okullo Foundation at: https://okullofoundation.org/
Season 5 of the How We Can Heal Podcast is sponsored by SimplePractice.
If you want to simplify the business side of your work, I highly recommend Simple Practice!
Right now they’re offering a special 7-day free trial with 70% off your first 4 months for How We Can Heal listeners.
Go to https://www.simplepractice.com/howwecanheal to take advantage of this offer today!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lisa Danylchuk (00:01):
Bugi, queen Bugi , I'm so happy to have you on
the how we can heal podcast andto share you and your beautiful
wonderfulness with thiscommunity.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you so much for having me.
So I don't even think I knowthis.
We've run together and you know, end up talking about all kinds
of different things, but howdid ultra running become part of
(00:22):
your life?
Nyobugi Okullo (00:24):
so one day I was having a conversation with this
guy and I asked him what he haddone over the weekend and he
said he had attended a brazenrace.
And so I looked it up becauseI'd moved from Houston right,
it's not like I was running.
No, I was doing karate, niceKickboxing, three days a week.
That was the most I was doing,yeah.
So then I went to a brazen.
(00:45):
I kind of signed up for abrazen race, not knowing what
else I get myself into I thinkmaybe a 10k.
And then I got there in theparking lot I don't know anyone,
I have no friends, and I'mthinking, oh my gosh, what have
I done?
Yeah, what have I done.
And I remember walking and thisguy called Jay.
He's the first one who came andsaid hi, are you new?
(01:06):
I've never seen you.
And then I think I met Andreaafter that and that's how it
started?
Yes, so then I started runningmore and more brazen races.
I started meeting people and meI'm always talking to people.
I'm like, how's it going, howyou doing?
I think, like, how's it going,how you doing?
I think that's how it started.
So then I ended up with thisfamily doing this crazy stuff.
(01:27):
So that's how I started.
Lisa Danylchuk (01:28):
Had you always run before that?
Like, were you comfortablerunning?
You were just kind of findingthe events at that point.
Nyobugi Okullo (01:33):
No, I call myself the other Kenya.
Now, my mom was an athlete.
Maybe I've got the genes.
I ran high school but nothing.
It was just PE right One hour aweek.
Yeah, cross country in highschool, but that was it.
Even cross country was just.
I was just, you know, middle ofthe pack, nothing special it
was nothing.
Lisa Danylchuk (01:52):
That was like a big part of it.
Nah, not even nah.
Yeah, it's so amazing how wecan find these little moments of
like oh, I'm going to try that,I'll just sign up for that race
, and then you just becomes thisbig part of your life and your
family, and that's definitelytrue for me too.
Nyobugi Okullo (02:04):
I know.
And then you have this family.
And why I love the trails isthat it's family, because when
you spend six or seven hourswith someone, you become real.
Okay, at first you might be, no, we keep it real on the trail,
right Through the bad and thegood.
Yeah, so then you have thisfamily.
(02:25):
I mean, you were seven hourswith somebody, surely right?
Lisa Danylchuk (02:29):
yeah, and you can make friends with people and
not even know their name.
Sometimes.
Where you're like you'rerunning, I don't know a trail,
half marathon or 50k be anydistance, and and you may be
near someone, you kind of passthem, they pass you and and
eventually you start talking andyou know their whole life story
, you know the names of theirkids, you know where their kids
go to college, you know, andyou're like I can't remember
(02:50):
their name and if it's notwritten on their bib, you're
like I have to ask you a realdeep question.
Nyobugi Okullo (02:55):
Now tell me your name again or or be like me,
like how's it going?
And you know there are not many, uh, black or african americans
that run these trail races.
And then I got to know all thedirectors.
You know they come me, you knowthey just know I love the rate
rds.
Honestly, I never met one.
I couldn't stand.
I love, love, love, love.
And so that's how it is and I'mlike you.
(03:18):
Yeah, how's it going?
But I do talk a lot, though I'mone of the runners that I'll
say hello, how's it going?
Lisa Danylchuk (03:24):
Yes, you make your friends, you find your
friends, you make your friendsas you run, don't take it too
seriously.
So what do you like aboutrunning for just your own
personal life?
It builds family.
What else does it do for you?
Nyobugi Okullo (03:36):
I do my best, thinking when I'm out running.
Believe it or not, I realize ifI don't run, in two days I'm
cranky.
I seem to solve all my issues.
I have conversations withmyself.
When I'm out there I feel goodabout myself, even if I'm having
, as you know, my mother passedaway grief.
(03:56):
It has really, really running.
It's the only constant I've hadthe last four years.
Since I lost my mom, it's beenrunning and prior to that it's
just good for my psyche, yes, myoverall being.
I always kid myself when myfamily starts to say you run too
much, I said well, I don'tdrink, I don't smoke, I just run
(04:18):
.
I love being outdoors.
I love being outdoors.
Lisa Danylchuk (04:21):
It's therapeutic right, very therapeutic.
You've run in some beautifulplaces.
You've lived in the last in thetime I've known you, you've
lived in California.
You've lived in.
Texas.
You've lived in Kenya in thesevery different settings.
What's it like for you being inthe different places?
Nyobugi Okullo (04:38):
So that's an interesting question.
I had always had the fear, evenat Chabot, I would stay in the
trail.
But then I started to go upthese trails that you know,
sometimes I wouldn't meetanybody.
I hear rustling in the bushes.
I used to be afraid and Irealized, yes, I have a whistle,
that I'm no longer afraid.
So when I ran in Kenya, I would, you know, do some hill work
(05:01):
and it's up there.
It's not like my village has.
You can call 911.
Most of the time you don't evenhave service, right?
Yeah, so even if I call 911,there is no 911.
I lived in a village for thelast three and a half years,
right, but I overcame that fearof being out there.
So I had two precautions.
I always had a whistle, I hadmy bear spray there are no bears
(05:26):
over there but I just overcamethat fear of getting out there.
It's pretty out there.
You know just the fear of beingout there by myself.
Lisa Danylchuk (05:34):
There's so much in that, because I think in life
we can fear doing thingsourselves or being alone, or we
can stay in relationships justto be in a relationship, even if
it's not good.
Right in relationships, just tobe in a relationship, even if
it's not good, right, it's likejust to be with that fear of oh
my God, I'm by myself and tomove through it.
Definitely Like I'm a big fanof connection for healing and
all of that.
But there's also something tobe said with just connecting
(05:55):
with yourself, noticing whatyou're feeling and, in some
cases, moving through it, orjust finding ways to make
yourself feel safer.
Okay, I whistle, I got you know, I got my phone.
It probably isn't going to work, but right right.
It's worth it too to have that,that sense of exploration or of
just um, you know, followingyour curiosity out into the
(06:17):
wilderness sometimes sometimesyes, and of course, um yeah.
Nyobugi Okullo (06:22):
So I I realized that I overcame that.
Yeah, that's amazing, because Ikept going, you know, up those
hills.
Up those hills, it's just me,myself and a couple of cows,
sometimes deer, you know, andthat's it.
Lisa Danylchuk (06:36):
Well, you also did a race recently, or sometime
in the last, I don't know.
It was like last five years.
You did that race in theNational Park in Kenya.
Nyobugi Okullo (06:43):
Oh Lewa, yeah, two years ago.
Lisa Danylchuk (06:45):
Yes, two years ago.
Oh my gosh, that must have beenquite, quite incredible.
Nyobugi Okullo (06:50):
I have never seen anything like this in my
life.
So it was 26 miles.
It's through a game park.
There are choppers flying.
Sometimes you have to stop therace for the animals to cross.
You know whether it's lions andzebras and antelopes.
Very interesting race, yeah,and safety came first, so they
(07:12):
would stop the race.
Very, very interesting, butwhat a well-organized race.
People come from all across theworld and I can see why it's a
bucket list item for some of us.
It was very.
That was an eye-opener for me.
I'm Kenyan this was aneye-opener.
Lisa Danylchuk (07:31):
I wonder what it's like for you being an ultra
runner here in the Statesversus being an ultra runner in
Kenya.
Is it different?
I'm imagining it's a differentgroup of people who are signing
up for the races.
Nyobugi Okullo (07:42):
Yeah, so majority of them were foreigners
.
Because of the fee, okay, right, because of the fee.
But these Kenyans veryinteresting, that's why I refer
to myself as the other Kenyans,even here right now, I have my
honey stinger, my goose, overthere, girl, they just run
through these aid stations, hadwater and orange slices they're
(08:04):
having conversations, they'rekicking my ass slices.
They're having conversations,they're kicking my ass and
they're just havingconversations and GUIs.
They don't even bother.
There's coke?
No, no, they had bananas andwater and they just powered
through.
Yes, so it's very interesting.
I had to ask myself a question.
It must be a marketing thing.
They do it normally.
(08:26):
I did another race after that.
This was just a 10K and samething Having conversations,
water, at most A banana ifyou're lucky, that's it.
They just run and they just run.
It's very interesting because Irealized I spent the majority
of my adulthood in the States.
Right, yeah, so that was amajor difference.
(08:49):
But they also are very vocal,like when I did Lauer run
through the game park.
They're like they call meauntie, auntie, you can do it,
you can do it.
You know they can see your backof the path.
Lisa Danylchuk (09:05):
But yeah, so it was very, very, very, very
interesting I want to startsaying that to you and we're on
the trail and be like oh, Idon't know today I'm not feeling
it until you can do it untilyou can do it tell myself that
too, yeah yeah, you can do it, Iknow, I know, so, so, so that's
that's the difference you.
Nyobugi Okullo (09:23):
Here we are.
Oh my gosh, I will nevercomplain about.
When I went to aid stationthree, they were out of Coke or
Sprite or ginger.
Ale, come run with us, keny,too much and all of that.
Lisa Danylchuk (09:34):
So I mean you are out, especially if you're
out for a long.
You know 100-mile race, youreally got to fuel.
So it's funny to see thatdifference and it's like, okay,
well, here's a banana if you'rehungry.
Like you have one option, one,but yeah.
Nyobugi Okullo (09:56):
Yeah, and the idea of even carrying this goo.
I tried to give one to someone.
Lisa Danylchuk (10:03):
I'm like no Right, and there's so many elite
runners that come straight outof Kenya and I've never been
running there, I've never beenin a running community there, so
I just don't have a sense ofwhat that's like.
I have visions, I've made up inmy mind, of people, just with
ease, you know, gallopingthrough, and now, with what
(10:25):
you're saying, I'm like they'retaking a little bit of water,
maybe eating a banana, butthey're just power, you know,
just pure power running.
Nyobugi Okullo (10:33):
But you know there's a common misconception
is there's that one tribe, right?
So this tribe.
They live up in a tent.
That's where most of therunners come from.
It's this one tribe.
So think about it this way.
They've been going up and downever since they were kids.
The altitude they acclimate,they're born in it, right, you
live up and then maybe school isdown the mountain and then they
(10:56):
go back for lunch and come down.
So it's just this one tribe.
You know, people have tried,studies have been done, movies
have been made, but you've seenthem win those marathons where
they finish and they're undertwo or sub two and they're just
like I could go a couple more,right, yeah, right.
So that's why I refer to myselfas the other Kenyan.
Yeah, because I'm not that yeah, well you.
Lisa Danylchuk (11:20):
You gallop around with ease on the trails
and talk to people, and you'veaccomplished some long distances
in your time too, here.
Nyobugi Okullo (11:28):
Yes, I have.
And then COVID happened and,yeah, everything was state of
disarray, ended our lives.
I went to Kenya, but running ismy thing.
Lisa Danylchuk (11:39):
Another thing that I know you've been really
involved in is your family'sfoundation, Like when you spent
some time back in Kenya.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Nyobugi Okullo (11:46):
Sure.
So after my mom passed away, mymom and dad have been very
involved in this school, andthis school is like 50 feet from
our home, and so can youimagine sitting in your house
having a latte, having Starbuckscoffee yes, we, I have
Starbucks coffee at home inKenya and there's this school
that needs supplies, or the kidsare walking around with torn
(12:10):
shorts.
So you know, so we've alwayssupported.
So what happened?
One day?
I was going up for my morning,to up the hill morning run, and
I see this little boy and I askhim I knew the kids 8 o'clock
they're in class, right?
I ask him why are you not inschool?
I was sent home for school fees, these 506.
So I said you go back to goback to class.
(12:34):
So I finished my run and I wentto the school and I paid his
school fees and that's how thiswhole stop thing started.
So then we ended up with all myfriends and 99% of them are
trail runners from the StatesGave me money.
We've renovated this school.
It's like an American school.
(12:55):
These kids are winning on alllevels.
I feed them Monday throughFriday, five days a week.
Even when I'm here, I take careof their medical.
These kids had rushes andinadequate nutrition.
You know lack of vitamins andinadequate nutrition.
You know lack of vitamins.
So I created a new menu in 2023that is not only carbs but
(13:15):
protein, and these children Ihave seen the transformation in
their lives.
So wherever I go, you'd thinkI'm like a mini president.
Auntie, the kids come and hugyou.
It's so cute.
So that's what we've done as afamily is we've started a
feeding program.
This will be year three or four.
Normally, my American friends,you guys send me stuff, whether
(13:37):
it is monetary or clothing, andlast year we had the first run.
I created a run for them, a 5Ksponsored by Brazen Racing.
Lisa Danylchuk (13:49):
Nice, how full circle.
Yes.
Nyobugi Okullo (13:56):
Jasmine and Sam sent me about almost 150
t-shirts and we did a 5K.
It was so well.
It was like a brazen race inthe States.
It was so nice.
So this year those are some ofthe things, the initiatives,
that I'm going to take.
But we have a website andpeople go in there and my
supporters normally go in whenthere's an ask.
Go in and support.
Lisa Danylchuk (14:14):
I love how organic and how relational that
is.
Like it just starts.
You're going out for your runand you see this kid and you're
like, oh, and I'm imagining theschool fees when you think about
a Starbucks coffee in theStates.
How many Starbucks coffees werethe school fees?
Right, right, right, not thatmany I'm imagining.
Nyobugi Okullo (14:30):
Right, right, right, not that many I'm
imagining.
Right, I also give themhaircuts and I don't know, lisa,
if you've ever known thirdworld countries.
Kids suffer from worms, you see, you know, because they are
always touching, touching eachother.
I deworm them.
I'm a germaphobe.
I deworm them.
The government allows me to dothat, so I do things like that.
I deworm them and it justbreaks my heart to see I'm
well-dressed and here's a kidwith torn shorts.
The one that really touched merecently was some of the boys
(14:53):
that never had underwear intheir lives.
Wow, it's not so much just feedand don't care about the rest
of the things that's going onwith kids.
So right now we have 42 kids.
I feed them Monday throughFriday.
Wednesday, I give them somefruit.
Vitamin is very important,whether it's seasonal, like
oranges, bananas and sometimeswatermelon.
We have plenty.
Some of them had never hadwatermelon.
(15:15):
They were eating the skin.
My dad was like, just let them.
So things that we take forgranted in the States.
So now, yes, on Wednesdays theyget a piece of fruit.
I reinvented the menu, verynatural foods, but they love it.
It's so much better for a kidas opposed to just giving them
(15:36):
sugar.
Yeah, definitely.
Lisa Danylchuk (15:38):
It's such a communal thing too.
I mean kids that are right nextto you, 42 kids that you've
walked by and seen the tatteredshorts and seen them struggling
with their school fees orwhatever else.
What I appreciate about that isyou saw an immediate issue,
right, an immediate problem, andthen you solve that.
Hey kid, go back to school, I'mgoing to go pay your school
(15:58):
fees.
And then, looking deeper, okay,well, what about the shorts?
And what about?
My goodness, these kids havelike, what are you eating?
You're just eating sugar.
Let's find some natural,natural foods.
And and just the layers thatyou keep building onto it.
I just imagine, too, when youmention the uh, the brazen
shirts, even before that, whenyou mention ultra runners
donating, I just see race shirts.
(16:19):
I'm like I just see this wholegroup of 42 kids running around
with, like I ran Tahoe Rim 50miler and you'll see, you know,
like ultra runners always haveso many race shirts.
Nyobugi Okullo (16:30):
We do, and I've gotten so many from different
races, and it's not only brazenrace but it's people I met
through brazen or friends, offriends, of friends.
So I would get boxes sent to mein the village from you guys in
the States, and so the wholeschool.
The feeding program is only forthe kindergartners which are
five and six years, and then theT-shirts were enough for the
entire school 130 of them, I,which are five and six years old
(16:51):
, and then the t-shirts wereenough for the entire school 130
of them.
I had more than that becauseother people keep saying it Even
now.
I need to come and collect.
I just haven't put out apublish, but there are people
waiting to give me all thet-shirts.
So that's what we do.
It's funny.
I walk around that village andit's all brazen racing.
Lisa Danylchuk (17:12):
Or some marine mark or an ITR race, know?
Or Senna right, you know, it'sso funny, you created a little
speaking of ultra family, right,trail family.
It's like you have this trailfamily here in California and
then and then you get involvedwith this thing in Kenya and
then there's this connectionbetween places and so even
people who've never been therewith you or been to the village
or met the kids, like there'sstill this connection of oh yeah
, I ran that race and you'rewearing my shirt.
(17:33):
I love how personal what you'redoing is and how much you care.
Like you're, you just keepseeing another issue and and
okay, well, there's worms intheir hair, we're going to
deworm.
Okay, well, you aren't eatingany fruit.
We're going to get you fruit onWednesdays and maybe you know,
offering a run and just.
Nyobugi Okullo (18:05):
And maybe you know, offering a run and just
engaging and caring, and I lovethat there's this bridge, though
for you living, go there.
It's like an American school,because you walk into a
classroom and I put little hooks, so, and we've also been giving
them all my friends, all of youhave been giving me backpacks,
right?
So every kid has a backpack.
They hang it.
You're teaching themindependence.
Hang their backpack.
(18:26):
And then the tables.
We bought tables just for them,because normally the government
would give them tables like forolder kids.
No, these are just tables yousit at, like when your little
daughter will go to kindergarten, you know, and it's so.
The only thing that's left forme that I always say is just the
roofing.
But everything else these kidshave, whether it's pens, papers
(18:47):
I receive a lot of pens andpapers and coloring books and
crayons and those I can buy overthere.
But sometimes if I get adonation, then I just ship it in
a container.
So I've gotten all that.
So that's why I always saythese kids are winning on all
fronts.
And a couple two years ago, forexample, a friend of mine gave
(19:09):
me $300 and I was able to buyall of them leather shoes and a
couple, two years ago, forexample, a friend of mine gave
me $300 and I was able to buyall of them leather shoes.
I wanted leather, not the cheapones that you know.
These kids, yeah, yeah, atleast I even ended up getting
them.
I was so.
I was so touched when I saw thekids Imagine your little
daughter using an adult pitlatrine, when I saw the kids
(19:32):
Imagine your little daughterusing an adult pit latrine, so I
had them construct two toiletsthat are age appropriate for
these kids.
They're only five or six yearsold.
Can you imagine I felt likethey could fall through.
Lisa Danylchuk (19:42):
Right yeah, those toilets are scary, so many
of us trail runners will justgo in the bushes instead of the
toilet.
Nyobugi Okullo (19:48):
Railrunners will just go in the bushes instead
of the toilet.
Team Bush Hashtag that I am oneof those.
Oh yeah, so they're winningDuring the day.
They have a swing set.
I bought for them Because, likeI said, there are 42, two
classes and three teachers.
So our family is paying oneteacher.
We want it so that if there'sone teacher can't make it.
Yeah, instead of waiting forthe government that's not doing
(20:11):
anything much, we're justhandling it.
We and our family and oursponsors, we take care of it,
just take care of it.
Lisa Danylchuk (20:20):
What are you going to do?
Yeah, way to show up for them,right?
Yes?
Nyobugi Okullo (20:23):
to show up and hopefully they will be adults
that also pay it forward.
Lisa Danylchuk (20:28):
Well, it really matters.
I think kids do remember that Iworked for so long with teens
and young adults and there's allthese different scales.
We could talk about moreacademic ways to measure are
there adverse childhoodexperiences or are there
resilience factors but so muchresearch comes down to one
caring adult that can make sucha profound difference.
(20:50):
And I don't know what you know.
It sounds like there's a lot oflike lack of resources in terms
of what the school has or whateven some of the kids or their
families have access to.
I don't know what theirrelationships are like with
their parents, but like if theyhave a positive relationship
with their parents, a positiverelationship with you access to
pens and paper and places to sitin school and things to create
(21:13):
art and teachers to show up andteach them.
Each of these is an extra bonusand resource and support for
them.
And I think the love that youshow up with that's so clear to
me whenever you talk about thisand I them.
You know I could just see themcalling you auntie around the
village, like that.
That has so much power in andof itself.
(21:35):
Right, the things that you'redoing are an extension of that
love, but the fact that you seethem, you value them and you
show up you solve problems andhelp them.
see the other side like that hasinfinite value, has infinite
value.
Nyobugi Okullo (21:49):
Oh, thank you, lisa.
I try, in my mother's memoryand my daddy's still with us, I
try to practice what I wastaught.
Okay, we grew up.
There was always people in ourhouse, whether they lived with
us or came to eat, so I knowthis is the right thing to do.
(22:10):
These children come from someof the most of them from very
poor families.
So it go to the point wherebyyou know, when I see a kid with
torn shoes, you know I can seethe toes, I know what to do.
I know what to do or one is untoes.
Lisa Danylchuk (22:24):
I know what to do.
Nyobugi Okullo (22:25):
Yeah, I know what to do.
Or one is well, I know what todo Because sometimes the parents
are just trying to make itright.
So, for instance, on Monday Imade sure that they have beans
and sorghum.
Sorghum is very healthy, it's amixture and because maybe the
night before they had boiledLisa, think about it boiled
(22:46):
collard greens or boiled cabbage, that's not enough to sustain
this kid.
So, moving forward, I'mthinking that instead of lunch
alone, maybe, as I get morefunding, maybe offer them
breakfast as well.
Lisa Danylchuk (22:59):
Yeah, yeah, yes.
Nyobugi Okullo (23:01):
Yeah, I think that would close that gap,
because when they go back homethey're on their own.
You don't know what they'rebeing fed.
You know it's not like us inthe States.
We are so privileged A kid canhave cereal for breakfast.
Yes, it's got a lot of sugar ortoast or something like that,
but these ones, some of them.
So those are some of the thingsthat I think, moving forward as
I get more sponsorship,offering breakfast would really
(23:24):
be a good thing to do.
I worry about them over theweekend and when they go home,
what they're going to eat, andsometimes you know the bananas
will be big.
Do you see them carrying themin their backpacks?
You know kids.
Lisa Danylchuk (23:38):
That's really smart and strategic of them.
I have seen some programs wherein schools I've worked in in the
past where they started servingbreakfast at the school for the
same reasons, because they werelike, oh, these, I don't think
these kids are quite gettingtheir nutritional needs met, so
let's just look for it in themorning or, you know, at the
early break.
And and that actually they weretracking um how it impacted
(24:01):
attendance and how it impactedperformance in school,
grade-wise or participation-wiseand improvement across the
board on those measures.
So I think it's a way to see aneed right.
Nyobugi Okullo (24:15):
Right, right, and it just doesn't end there.
You know, it's always something.
We just had a meeting with mydad the other day and we feel
that the foundation it's calledthe Okulo Foundation is on track
.
That's why I've been here allthis time, because it's running
and it's running well.
So we're doing what we need todo for these children.
(24:36):
So the children are thepriority, you know.
So we wanted to be different,to encourage our donors to see
we are making a difference.
These kids even have water.
You know drinking water thatpeople take for granted.
They were drinking it was likemuddy water, I was so sickened.
And so they drink water as partof the lunch.
(24:57):
They wash their hands with soap.
They have baby wipes.
Yeah, these little ones, theirhygiene can be questionable, I
found.
I don't know how they're doing.
They didn't even have toiletpaper, things that we take for
granted.
Yeah, these children now havetoilet paper.
They have wipes.
They wash their hands, you know.
So I would go there three days.
(25:19):
I'm not there, but my dad goesthree days a week.
He sits there and eats lunchwith them, observes Nice.
Yes, sits there and eats lunchwith them observes.
Lisa Danylchuk (25:30):
Nice, yes, amazing, yes.
It makes me think of you know,when I was growing up this was
like in the 80s.
I remember seeing commercialsfor I believe at the time these
were in Ethiopia where there wasa lot of starvation happening,
like really sad stories of kidsand then, like the donate, help
or sponsor a kid, you know and Iwas just a kid watching this
like, oh wow, that that's prettyextreme, right.
And I know people I myself havesponsored kids in different
countries.
Something about the connectionpiece and knowing, like one of
(25:54):
the places where I sponsored wasCambodian children's fund.
There was one of my yogateachers, a friend and student,
started this whole school, right, was, was there visiting, was
very privileged, saw kids livingin a literal dump with their
families, saw the abuse that washappening, saw the alcohol,
said I'm going to start a schooland then I'm going to feed them
once a day, I'm going to feedthe families once a week, just
(26:15):
similar to what you're doing andstarted a whole program there
and even moved there and livesthere now to this day.
So I sponsored a kid there once.
It's just so nice to have theconnection Again.
The relationship and the careis really important too.
Right, getting basic needs metis the bottom line is like the
number one goal, but being ableto connect and so when I think
(26:38):
of you and your dad sittingthere at lunch, it's like being
there with the kids.
I feel like there's an elementof healing, of just like hey, we
actually really care about eachother here and we're going to
express that.
I love that this is.
It just feels very grassroots,right, very like it's a problem.
I'm going to respond to it.
Oh, there's another one.
(26:58):
I'm responding to that.
There's another one, I'mresponding to that.
I'm going to talk to my friends.
Oh, look, the people at Brazenare going to sponsor a 5K.
The whole thing of it justseems very organic and
grassroots and beautiful andjust so full of love.
So I just want to celebrate youfor doing what you're doing.
I know it's good for your heartand you're so cool and you're in
it for that.
But, like I just want tohighlight and celebrate that we
can all of us can do somethinglike this right.
(27:20):
We can see a need and respondand meet it.
Nyobugi Okullo (27:24):
Yeah, you know it's.
Thank you, lisa.
I never thought that times I'mout running and I just smile.
I never thought, you know, Iwas minding my business in the
Bay Area with my ultra runnerfriends who knew I would end up
in a village or what place, avillage, you know and doing some
good work, you know.
(27:44):
And it is amazing, you know, inlife I call it a pit stop
because I never thought I wouldbe doing this and also taking
care of my dad, you know,elderly.
So I'm a caretaker and I'mdoing all this.
That's how I've been able tomaintain my sanity and also
having a very amazing supportingcast my brother and my two
(28:07):
sisters.
They're always there, you know,but it's been amazing.
I couldn't have done thiswithout my Bay Area friends.
I'm so grateful, I felt soloved, I felt the love.
Lisa Danylchuk (28:17):
Yeah, all from signing up for that one brazen
race.
Nyobugi Okullo (28:20):
Right, changed my life.
Yeah, changed my life, andthese children are the
recipients, you know.
So I can only see big thingsand good things, but what I also
want to encourage is uh, theaudience that's listening that
if any one of you wants to cometo Kenya, please, we have two
houses on our compact.
Please come stay with us, comesee what it's about, and we have
(28:43):
wi-fi ah what, ah what, I haveWi-Fi.
Okay, I'm going to sign up forthat Please come, bring your
friends, come with us, I haveroom for more than 15.
Come, let's do a yoga retreatas a fundraiser for the kids.
Lisa Danylchuk (28:56):
Let's do it.
Nyobugi Okullo (28:58):
Come on, I like that.
Anytime you need a pit stop inlife, you're tired, come over.
I love it.
Kenya is a safe country.
Plus, come see what we're doingin the village.
It's just so enriching and goodfor the soul.
Sometimes it's okay because welive lives that go, go, go, go,
go, go, go, go, go.
Lisa Danylchuk (29:15):
Yep yeah, and you know, the difference in
culture like America is very go,go, go, go, go go.
Nyobugi Okullo (29:21):
Yes, we, yes, we are Go, go, go, go go.
Lisa Danylchuk (29:24):
To the point where running all day on the
trails feels like relaxation.
I'm going to go run all day andtake a break from this
intensity.
Take a break for eight hours,six hours depending on the races
, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I want to ask you and I hopethat there's someone listening
that reaches out to you andtakes you up on this.
I really do, because I have hadpeople extend invitations to me
(29:44):
like this there up on this.
I really do, because I have hadpeople extend invitations to me
like this there was a schoolthat I was applying to work for
in Massachusetts and they had acat program in Costa Rica.
The woman from Costa Rica wasvisiting for the weekend and she
said come down.
And I was like, don't tell methat because I will.
And I did, I showed up and Islept on her couch.
So I hope somebody takes you upon this and shows up and can
meet the kids and have just areally, like you said,
(30:05):
soul-filling experience.
Nyobugi Okullo (30:07):
Yes, and they can stay.
They get to stay as long asthey want.
Lisa, we have room.
We have room, plenty of room,it's safe.
We have German shepherds atnight, you don't have to worry.
Important to know.
Important to know.
Important to know we have Wi-Fi, I have Wi-Fi.
Wi-fi, yeah, we have two houses.
So I just want people to come,and even if it's you know, just
(30:28):
come.
If you want to visit Kenya,come, come over, we'll hook you
up with a safari.
Lisa Danylchuk (30:32):
You want to do a ?
Nyobugi Okullo (30:33):
safari, that's okay, we can hook you up, but
just come and see.
Sometimes people just want torelax, yeah.
Lisa Danylchuk (30:40):
Yeah.
Nyobugi Okullo (30:41):
Yeah.
Lisa Danylchuk (30:42):
I did want to ask you too your mom, was your
mom involved with the foundationtoo?
Nyobugi Okullo (30:47):
My mother was.
No, she was involved with theschool.
With the school, yeah, my dadhad always.
In fact, I have a sister whoeven donated desks to them.
So when she passed away and Imet that little boy because
that's why I was there after herburial was now I stayed to take
care of my father, because youcannot even boil water.
(31:09):
You know how are you going tosay I'm going back to the Bay
Area, goodbye, dad, it's beengood.
I couldn't.
And, being the oldest and beingAfrican, we don't put people in
homes.
Yeah, there was nobody else.
I guess this responsibility wasleft to me as a CEO of this
company.
I had no idea, by the way.
Yeah, that's how I stayed.
(31:30):
Yeah, yeah, so that's how thiswhole thing started.
So then I decided okay, I'mgoing to put a plaque up, take
care of these kids.
And that's how I find we foundour purpose.
The grief, I guess led us tothis.
Lisa Danylchuk (31:48):
What was your mom's connection to the school?
Was she working?
Nyobugi Okullo (31:50):
there, or was she?
No, she, oh no.
My sister had a feeding programa couple of years before that,
so her and my dad were managingit for her, okay, but they used
to feed the entire school.
Wow, yes, my sister built akitchen, um, so they're very
involved.
Like I said, it's at our gate.
You enter our home and theschool is right here.
Turn right to the school, turnleft to the gate, to our
entrance to our home.
(32:10):
So he's always been.
My parents believe in education.
Yeah, always, always, so Ithink over 10 years.
Yeah, she was very involved.
Lisa Danylchuk (32:20):
And how long has the foundation been around then
?
Was that part of the feedingprogram from the past too?
Nyobugi Okullo (32:24):
No, I started this afresh.
Three, three years.
Okay, yeah, cause it'll on the19th of the month was my mom's
fourth anniversary.
So three and a half let's putit that way Okay, but I
registered as a 501C in here.
Yeah, good for you.
So that's it.
The Okulo Foundation we are upand running and anyone wants to
(32:45):
donate or come over or has anyquestions, they can reach out.
What's the best way for peopleto reach out to you?
They can go on the website I'llput it in the show notes.
My information is on there.
They can just text me on there,yeah, Okay, I love it.
Lisa Danylchuk (33:02):
So what's next for you?
You have any big races orprojects coming up.
Nyobugi Okullo (33:08):
I signed up for a running course that keeps me
sane, believe it or not.
Last week was the first time inmy life because I'm team back
of the park party in the back.
I actually ran 40 miles lastweek.
I'm tired, my legs are tired, Iknow.
So I signed up for a flat 50Kwith trails over Texas.
I haven't had a 50K.
The last one was AntelopeCanyon, which was way before
(33:31):
COVID.
So we'll see.
I hear it's flat.
Houston is flat.
I run here.
It's just flat as a pancake.
There's no hill.
I can never find a hill girl.
I go out on the trails flat asa pancake.
Lisa Danylchuk (33:42):
Okay, we're going to do it.
Nyobugi Okullo (33:46):
So that's what I'm going to do.
I want to challenge myself thisyear.
I want to run, sign up for andtrain and run for a race that's
greater than 50k, so we'll see.
Okay, maybe.
Yeah, one of my goals is thebest shape of my life in my
mid-50s, so let's see how thisis gonna go.
What do I have to lose, right?
I support you.
I fully support it what do Ihave to lose?
Lisa Danylchuk (34:09):
yeah, yeah, right, like it's like there's
something in you that's like, oh, maybe I could do that, right,
maybe I can run that far.
And and then the journey of itbrings up all these other things
, all these other opportunitiesand, you know, friendships and
relationships and people helpingyou build a school in the
village in Kenya, right, right,all these amazing things can
come of it.
(34:30):
But it starts with that.
Maybe I could do that, maybe Icould go more than 50 K.
I kind of want to.
I want to be in the best shapeof my life in my fifties, like,
yeah, you know, and and the wordcomes to mind like have the
audacity to have those goals.
But I'm like, why is that evenaudacious to have those goals?
Yeah, have those goals.
Those are great goals, you know.
Nyobugi Okullo (34:48):
But I think that I've suffered a lot from
imposter syndrome.
You know whereby I didn'tbelieve in myself you know, and
it's funny the things that youcan do when you believe in
yourself.
This has been a journey and itcontinues.
It's still a journey, but Ibelieve in myself more.
(35:09):
A friend of our mutual friendTodd Todd, even before my mom
got sick, he's like my trailhusband Get up and go run.
You know in hindsight I'm likethat's my friend.
He always got me out of bedrunning when I just want to lie
in bed and be, depressed.
You know what I mean.
He's that kind of friend.
Everybody needs a friend likeTodd.
(35:31):
Yes, agreed, he even in.
I'm here in Houston.
He always, still calls me,almost every day, but it's, it's
the belief, lisa, that's whatit is, because I used to watch
all of you running these crazyraces but I never thought for
myself because I believed that Icouldn't, I wasn't good enough,
you know.
(35:51):
And now I wake up in themorning, I'm like the first
thing I tell myself is everymorning, know your worth.
Yes, I get up and I do it.
We have seven on the schedule.
We're going to do seven.
Lisa Danylchuk (36:02):
So it's the belief.
Nyobugi Okullo (36:06):
It's a self-confidence.
Yeah, it's amazing what you cando.
There's a fine line betweenbeing arrogant, cocky and no,
I'm just confident about who Iam.
Maybe also age plays a factor.
Lisa Danylchuk (36:17):
And just recognizing that it doesn't help
you, not feeling good enough torun a long race, like that's
not helping you, that's nothelping anything, right?
If it's something you want, ifit's in your heart, and knowing
your worth first thing in themorning and then just following
up, I think one of the hardthings.
You know, sometimes findinginspiration is difficult, but
then we find it and then, on theway towards a goal, we hit a
(36:41):
snag, inevitably, and have toproblem solve.
Or, you know, sometimes you dohave to.
Well, you know it's pouringrain today, so I'm going to do
this distance tomorrow and runon the treadmill today, or
whatever.
We have to figure things out.
But sometimes, in that we don'tkeep promises to ourself, right,
or we're like, oh, it's okay,and I'm a fan of adapting when
(37:05):
we need to adapt, but alsoremembering, like seeing what's
at the root of that.
If the root of that is a beliefthat I'm not worthy of it or I
can't, or I'm not a person whogets these things, well then,
those are some beliefs tochallenge, right, like I'm worth
it and I do get to do it.
And why not me?
(37:25):
Why not?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, likeI'm worth it and I do get to do
it, and why not me?
Why not?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so what?
What are your hopes for?
You've got this 50k, maybelonger.
What are your hopes for thetrail community moving forward?
Nyobugi Okullo (37:41):
I love the trail community because I feel
they're very welcoming.
I'm hoping that when people seeme out there, they too can be
inspired to lace up, whetherthey're running a 5k or a 10k,
and especially people that looklike me.
Yes, and also the feeling thatthey should know that they're
very welcome at these races.
(38:01):
I have never felt like lessthan at any race that I've ever
ran.
Never felt like less than atany race that I've ever ran.
You know, the community totallyembraces us, and so if I can
make a difference or inspiresomeone to get off the couch, if
we can inspire people to get upand move and inspire people who
look like me, that would be ablessing because the community
(38:23):
is very welcoming, verywelcoming.
I've never felt out of place.
I was right in there day one.
Lisa Danylchuk (38:31):
I love to hear that and I mean you're such a
natural part of the communitythat we're a part of and I love
that you're there.
I know there are a lot ofconversations happening in even
like big ticket races, aboutdiversity and inclusion and how
to just get different peoplehighlighted, not only like, yeah
, get, get more diversity at thestart line, right, whether
(38:52):
that's gender, race andethnicity, you know across the
board ability but alsohighlighting different athletes
right, like highlightingpara-athletes.
So it's not always that we'rejust highlighting highlighting
para-athletes, so it's notalways that we're just
highlighting people who look acertain way or who represent
certain groups.
I think that conversation ishappening and changing and so
(39:13):
I'm with you on that.
I'd like to see that continueto change.
I've experienced the same thingthat the trail community is
very welcoming and I think inrunning in general, the biggest
thing I've come up against isthe competitiveness of really
valuing some, some races not all, not a lot of the ones that we
go to, but some races it's justso much about the front of the
pack and the P, like who's goingfastest and we're going to
(39:34):
really celebrate them, and thenby the time you finish back of
the pack, everything's closedand there's no more food Right,
like you have that happen, I'vehad that happen.
You're like where'd everybodygo?
And do I still get my swag bag?
Can I have a burrito too?
So I feel like there's alsothat inclusiveness of pace, of
body size or shape or perfect,and just in the trail running
(39:59):
community, even more than maybethe broader running community, I
feel like there's just thisinclusion effort happening right
, of shifting priorities, ofwelcoming people in and of just
celebrating all the things we'vetalked about today, how much
being outside in nature andmoving your body can feel good
and even when we are in a placeof deep grief, right, or moving
(40:20):
through the really tough stuffin life, just getting out and
moving your body.
This morning I was exhausted.
Yesterday I was so tired and Itold Alex I really need to get
out on the trail this morning.
So I had an hour, went up thehill, we've been up and down it
together, a Brandon trail to thetop.
Yeah, nice, Ran down, feelamazing.
Now Sometimes we think, oh, I'mtired, so I'll rest, and that's
(40:43):
absolutely helpful at times.
But sometimes I'm tired so Ineed to move right, so I need to
stir up some energy.
My love, like you said, todd,texting Boogie, boogie, what are
you doing?
Let's go Get up run.
Get up, go run.
You know.
And there are days where all ofus are like, nope, it's a rest
day and that's good, that's okay.
(41:04):
Yeah, that's okay, that's great.
That's part of it for sure.
It's not that we're just outthere pushing forever, but that
there's also this welcominginvitation to connect with the
earth, connect with other people, connect with your body, your
breath and, just, you know, getwhat you get out of it that day.
I've never been kind of like ayoga class.
(41:24):
I can't think of a run that I'mlike, oh, I really shouldn't
have done that.
Or a yoga class and I'm like,oh, yeah, no, I don't know why I
did yoga today.
Whenever I go out on the trail,even if I do something
different than I thought I wasgoing to do, or in a yoga class,
if I'm in child's pose orShavasana the whole time, I
usually feel better at the endand I think there's just
something about being together,about breathing, about
(41:45):
connecting with your body, and Ijust love having connected with
you, for through trail runningand the whole community, it's
just so full of love.
I feel like there's so manyamazing people out there and
given the world as it is todaylike if you pick up your phone,
I don't think you know.
I've tried to curate all myfeeds so I see a lot of love,
but I see a lot of other stufftoo, but when I get on the trail
(42:07):
with you and Todd or any ofthem, it just feels like people
are real right, cause this islike look at that hill.
Nyobugi Okullo (42:15):
That hill, you know.
And so, like I said, that's whywe keep it real.
Like you said, we talk abouteverything.
We have time, yes, we have time, and so you get to know the
real Lisa, as opposed to the hi.
See you at the next race nextweekend.
No, no, no no, you spend seven,eight hours with somebody.
You know You're like girl.
Let me tell you something, butjust nice.
(42:37):
Like you said, this is myfamily.
I give back and I give back andthen we volunteer.
If you're not running like yousaid, pick up, you're there, you
know.
It's just amazing, Amazingamazing.
Lisa Danylchuk (42:48):
It's a great community.
What would you say to someonewho's listening, who maybe has
been interested in running arace or just thinks, oh, that's
not for me, I'm not, I'm not oneof those people, or I am
nervous, I'm going to be judged,or things like that?
Nyobugi Okullo (43:04):
I would tell that person go on YouTube, pull
up, type in a trail race, anultra trail race.
You will see all shapes andsizes.
No one has ever told me oh,you're this or that.
That is the beauty of trailracing, it's such an accepting
community.
So I would tell that personrunning is the cheapest sport.
Just lace up, get out there anddo it, just do it and some of
(43:30):
this, really you can even walkit.
Start with a 5K or a 10K.
10k is six miles, 5k is 3.1miles.
Just start small baby steps.
You can do that.
Or challenge yourself to a 10Kif you've never.
You know, from couch towhatever.
Just think of it as somethingwhere you get to go.
You went to the farmer's market.
Sometimes you have to walk tothe farmer's market.
(43:50):
Well, this one, you're outthere with 200 or 300 of your
friends, people encouraging youalong the way.
There is no trail race that youwill go to and no one talks to
you.
There's no way Somebody willencourage you, somebody will
offer to walk with you.
You just meet people.
Lisa Danylchuk (44:05):
Even if you're an introvert.
Nyobugi Okullo (44:08):
somebody has to talk to you Always.
Lisa Danylchuk (44:11):
Love it.
There's people, there's snacks.
Nyobugi Okullo (44:13):
Here in the.
Lisa Danylchuk (44:13):
States, there's a lot of snacks.
Nyobugi Okullo (44:15):
Oh no, you get everything.
So just try, just make it apoint to get out there and try
the world we live in.
We need each other.
Yeah, point to get out thereand try the world we live in.
We need each other.
Yeah, we need each other.
No man is an island.
Just try, look up a race that'sclose to where you live and go
on the website.
You might.
Even if you're afraid you can't, don't have transportation, you
(44:36):
can go on the page and somebodywill ride with you.
Yeah, we'll offer to ride withyou.
Yeah, and sometimes there'seven people.
Lisa Danylchuk (44:43):
Often with each race there's people who get a
bib and then they can't show up,so they're getting away, right.
I guess there's also sometimesdiscounts available if you
contact race directors.
There's also even programs.
I know different programs inthe bay area that are
specifically strategicallylocated in lower income
communities to help with access.
So if there there's a bridgelike that that you're looking
(45:04):
for, I mean you could probablyfind a discount code or a
sponsor or someone who's justlike hey, I can't make it
anymore, somebody take my bib.
So.
So that level of access to isoften figureoutable, right.
Nyobugi Okullo (45:19):
Yeah, always, there's always.
Yeah, you can always get to arace.
You know, we carpool, and therace directors are very
supportive.
Lisa Danylchuk (45:27):
They're usually in it because they love it and
they want to share it.
Nyobugi Okullo (45:30):
Share it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Lisa Danylchuk (45:33):
So, Boogie, you've been through a lot in
life.
I know you lost your mom fouryears ago.
I want to send some extra loveout to your mom today.
I wish you.
Maybe she is listening into ourpodcast right.
I would love for her to behearing and so proud of you and
all the beautiful work you'vebeen doing in her honor.
I think it's something toreally celebrate.
Nyobugi Okullo (45:53):
I never used to give myself credit in the past,
but I do give myself credit now,for you know, I'm always like
you are doing what you need tobe doing.
I'm always like you are doingwhat you need to be doing.
Mom would be proud of wherethis foundation is headed.
We are hoping to grow and I'malways begging the villagers for
let your kids come.
Where else would a child get?
(46:14):
These are poor people, fed.
I have so much to give them.
I've been on this quest rightnow.
I've been in the States foralmost seven months.
I have clothing to give them.
I've been on this quest rightnow.
I've been in the States foralmost seven months.
I have clothing to give them.
I just shipped it.
There are two shipments.
One's about to get there andit's not so much to give them.
I just hope to give them somelove and that people care, and
(46:38):
especially my friends, Americanfriends.
They care so much.
You know that somebody caresabout them, because some of
these children, when you go tohug them, you notice it's
hugging is not even part oftheir nature.
They're afraid and then afterthat they see you, and now they
hug you every time they see you.
So, I hope that they will growup to be outstanding citizens
(46:59):
and give back.
It's about giving back.
Lisa Danylchuk (47:01):
Yeah Well, you're're paying it forward and
I think when people receive thatand see the value for
themselves, that naturally rightthat that empathy given becomes
empathy shared right yes, sowhat I have.
This is feels like such anobvious question.
I always like to ask it.
At the end, I feel like Ialready know the answer, but
(47:21):
maybe something else will cometo your mind.
What brings you hope?
Nyobugi Okullo (47:26):
What brings me hope is that kindness and
empathy and compassion stillexist.
We might see all thisnegativity in the world, but
there are good people out there.
There are people who wake upand want to make a difference.
No, we are not.
So you know, in the past, oh,americans were inward looking.
(47:48):
No, we are not inward looking.
Americans are some of the mostgenerous people in the world.
Maybe I'm plugging them becauseI'm one of them, but I have seen
it.
I live it right.
This foundation wouldn't bethere, would be in existence,
but not at this level if itwasn't for people giving,
reaching out, always asking howcan I help.
(48:08):
And one day I actually shedtears because someone just asked
me how can I help?
I mean, I asked myself when wasthe last time someone asked me
that how can I help?
What can I do?
How can I support you?
So I said, well, what can I do?
How can I support you?
So I said, well, I needclothing.
All right, I can buy it here.
(48:35):
So I just want people to knowthat I live my life based on
being the best version of myselfand being true.
I never had children, but maybethis is God's way.
I raised my sibling, but Idon't have children, but maybe
this is the way this is his giftback to me that, okay, you
don't push him out, but I gotall these kids.
I got 42 kids.
Yes, Right.
Lisa Danylchuk (48:55):
And they love you.
Nyobugi Okullo (48:57):
Oh, yes, auntie, oh, they keep running.
You'd think I'm running forpublic office, I love it, auntie
.
You'd think I'm running forpublic office, I love it.
Auntie, auntie, yes, soauntie's busy.
Auntie for president, yes.
And on some Fridays I just feelit I'll go buy cupcakes, like
you do in the States.
I'll just go and give themcandy.
Lisa Danylchuk (49:16):
They're kids, you know.
Nyobugi Okullo (49:17):
Cupcakes who doesn't like cupcakes?
Lisa Danylchuk (49:19):
Right, oh yeah, well, thank you, Bugi, for
everything you're doing, forbeing such a beautiful soul and
person.
I'm so glad that I just had theopportunity to connect with you
and to have you on the show.
Nyobugi Okullo (49:31):
Thank you so much for having me.
I've been looking forward tothis.
You are my dear friend and whenI saw your text I was like who
God continues to bless me?
Who God continues to bless me.
I am so glad.
I feel blessed and I feel veryloved.
I'm not alone in this endeavorand I will never be alone as
long as you guys are there.
(49:51):
We're in this together.
You know, tomorrow it mightsome, you know might need my
help for something.
But please come and visit.
If you want to go up to Kenya,please let me know.
You're welcome, all of you.
I love it.
I love it.
Lisa Danylchuk (50:04):
And I just have to celebrate officially your
haircut because, oh my goodness,you love it.
It's so amazing.
Nyobugi Okullo (50:12):
I feel free.
Uh-huh, I felt, you know, whenshe cut it.
I told her, cut it, yes, andthat's one of the things I was
talking about confidence.
You know, I didn't believe inmyself but, lisa, something
happened in all this.
Maybe, like you said, thehealing and the you know.
You know who you are and whatyou want, and so I'm so happy
about my hair it's even easieras a runner.
Lisa Danylchuk (50:33):
Right, I don't have to sweat it anymore as a
runner, as a yogi and for thosewho are just listening, a boogie
went from long, long.
The last picture I have withyou, your hair, was how long I
was like yeah, extensions always.
You've never seen me withoutextent, really okay yeah yeah,
and then just it's, it's justright up, right up on her head
now, right up to the front,uh-huh beautiful, stepping into
(50:57):
2025 like a boss, like a bosslike a boss.
Yeah, I love it, bo Thank youso?
much Grateful to have you on theshow.
Let's go to Kenya, let's go.
Nyobugi Okullo (51:08):
Let's go to come on down, come on down, we're
going to me now.
You're welcome.
Lisa Danylchuk (51:14):
I love it.
Bugi, queen Bugi , I'm so happy to have you on
the how we can heal podcast andto share you and your beautiful
wonderfulness with thiscommunity.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you so much for having me.
So I don't even think I knowthis.
We've run together and you know, end up talking about all kinds
of different things, but howdid ultra running become part of
(00:22):
your life?
Nyobugi Okullo (00:24):
so one day I was having a conversation with this
guy and I asked him what he haddone over the weekend and he
said he had attended a brazenrace.
And so I looked it up becauseI'd moved from Houston right,
it's not like I was running.
No, I was doing karate, niceKickboxing, three days a week.
That was the most I was doing,yeah.
So then I went to a brazen.
(00:45):
I kind of signed up for abrazen race, not knowing what
else I get myself into I thinkmaybe a 10k.
And then I got there in theparking lot I don't know anyone,
I have no friends, and I'mthinking, oh my gosh, what have
I done?
Yeah, what have I done.
And I remember walking and thisguy called Jay.
He's the first one who came andsaid hi, are you new?
(01:06):
I've never seen you.
And then I think I met Andreaafter that and that's how it
started?
Yes, so then I started runningmore and more brazen races.
I started meeting people and meI'm always talking to people.
I'm like, how's it going, howyou doing?
I think, like, how's it going,how you doing?
I think that's how it started.
So then I ended up with thisfamily doing this crazy stuff.
(01:27):
So that's how I started.
Lisa Danylchuk (01:28):
Had you always run before that?
Like, were you comfortablerunning?
You were just kind of findingthe events at that point.
Nyobugi Okullo (01:33):
No, I call myself the other Kenya.
Now, my mom was an athlete.
Maybe I've got the genes.
I ran high school but nothing.
It was just PE right One hour aweek.
Yeah, cross country in highschool, but that was it.
Even cross country was just.
I was just, you know, middle ofthe pack, nothing special it
was nothing.
Lisa Danylchuk (01:52):
That was like a big part of it.
Nah, not even nah.
Yeah, it's so amazing how wecan find these little moments of
like oh, I'm going to try that,I'll just sign up for that race
, and then you just becomes thisbig part of your life and your
family, and that's definitelytrue for me too.
Nyobugi Okullo (02:04):
I know.
And then you have this family.
And why I love the trails isthat it's family, because when
you spend six or seven hourswith someone, you become real.
Okay, at first you might be, no, we keep it real on the trail,
right Through the bad and thegood.
Yeah, so then you have thisfamily.
(02:25):
I mean, you were seven hourswith somebody, surely right?
Lisa Danylchuk (02:29):
yeah, and you can make friends with people and
not even know their name.
Sometimes.
Where you're like you'rerunning, I don't know a trail,
half marathon or 50k be anydistance, and and you may be
near someone, you kind of passthem, they pass you and and
eventually you start talking andyou know their whole life story
, you know the names of theirkids, you know where their kids
go to college, you know, andyou're like I can't remember
(02:50):
their name and if it's notwritten on their bib, you're
like I have to ask you a realdeep question.
Nyobugi Okullo (02:55):
Now tell me your name again or or be like me,
like how's it going?
And you know there are not many, uh, black or african americans
that run these trail races.
And then I got to know all thedirectors.
You know they come me, you knowthey just know I love the rate
rds.
Honestly, I never met one.
I couldn't stand.
I love, love, love, love.
And so that's how it is and I'mlike you.
(03:18):
Yeah, how's it going?
But I do talk a lot, though I'mone of the runners that I'll
say hello, how's it going?
Lisa Danylchuk (03:24):
Yes, you make your friends, you find your
friends, you make your friendsas you run, don't take it too
seriously.
So what do you like aboutrunning for just your own
personal life?
It builds family.
What else does it do for you?
Nyobugi Okullo (03:36):
I do my best, thinking when I'm out running.
Believe it or not, I realize ifI don't run, in two days I'm
cranky.
I seem to solve all my issues.
I have conversations withmyself.
When I'm out there I feel goodabout myself, even if I'm having
, as you know, my mother passedaway grief.
(03:56):
It has really, really running.
It's the only constant I've hadthe last four years.
Since I lost my mom, it's beenrunning and prior to that it's
just good for my psyche, yes, myoverall being.
I always kid myself when myfamily starts to say you run too
much, I said well, I don'tdrink, I don't smoke, I just run
(04:18):
.
I love being outdoors.
I love being outdoors.
Lisa Danylchuk (04:21):
It's therapeutic right, very therapeutic.
You've run in some beautifulplaces.
You've lived in the last in thetime I've known you, you've
lived in California.
You've lived in.
Texas.
You've lived in Kenya in thesevery different settings.
What's it like for you being inthe different places?
Nyobugi Okullo (04:38):
So that's an interesting question.
I had always had the fear, evenat Chabot, I would stay in the
trail.
But then I started to go upthese trails that you know,
sometimes I wouldn't meetanybody.
I hear rustling in the bushes.
I used to be afraid and Irealized, yes, I have a whistle,
that I'm no longer afraid.
So when I ran in Kenya, I would, you know, do some hill work
(05:01):
and it's up there.
It's not like my village has.
You can call 911.
Most of the time you don't evenhave service, right?
Yeah, so even if I call 911,there is no 911.
I lived in a village for thelast three and a half years,
right, but I overcame that fearof being out there.
So I had two precautions.
I always had a whistle, I hadmy bear spray there are no bears
(05:26):
over there but I just overcamethat fear of getting out there.
It's pretty out there.
You know just the fear of beingout there by myself.
Lisa Danylchuk (05:34):
There's so much in that, because I think in life
we can fear doing thingsourselves or being alone, or we
can stay in relationships justto be in a relationship, even if
it's not good.
Right in relationships, just tobe in a relationship, even if
it's not good, right, it's likejust to be with that fear of oh
my God, I'm by myself and tomove through it.
Definitely Like I'm a big fanof connection for healing and
all of that.
But there's also something tobe said with just connecting
(05:55):
with yourself, noticing whatyou're feeling and, in some
cases, moving through it, orjust finding ways to make
yourself feel safer.
Okay, I whistle, I got you know, I got my phone.
It probably isn't going to work, but right right.
It's worth it too to have that,that sense of exploration or of
just um, you know, followingyour curiosity out into the
(06:17):
wilderness sometimes sometimesyes, and of course, um yeah.
Nyobugi Okullo (06:22):
So I I realized that I overcame that.
Yeah, that's amazing, because Ikept going, you know, up those
hills.
Up those hills, it's just me,myself and a couple of cows,
sometimes deer, you know, andthat's it.
Lisa Danylchuk (06:36):
Well, you also did a race recently, or sometime
in the last, I don't know.
It was like last five years.
You did that race in theNational Park in Kenya.
Nyobugi Okullo (06:43):
Oh Lewa, yeah, two years ago.
Lisa Danylchuk (06:45):
Yes, two years ago.
Oh my gosh, that must have beenquite, quite incredible.
Nyobugi Okullo (06:50):
I have never seen anything like this in my
life.
So it was 26 miles.
It's through a game park.
There are choppers flying.
Sometimes you have to stop therace for the animals to cross.
You know whether it's lions andzebras and antelopes.
Very interesting race, yeah,and safety came first, so they
(07:12):
would stop the race.
Very, very interesting, butwhat a well-organized race.
People come from all across theworld and I can see why it's a
bucket list item for some of us.
It was very.
That was an eye-opener for me.
I'm Kenyan this was aneye-opener.
Lisa Danylchuk (07:31):
I wonder what it's like for you being an ultra
runner here in the Statesversus being an ultra runner in
Kenya.
Is it different?
I'm imagining it's a differentgroup of people who are signing
up for the races.
Nyobugi Okullo (07:42):
Yeah, so majority of them were foreigners
.
Because of the fee, okay, right, because of the fee.
But these Kenyans veryinteresting, that's why I refer
to myself as the other Kenyans,even here right now, I have my
honey stinger, my goose, overthere, girl, they just run
through these aid stations, hadwater and orange slices they're
(08:04):
having conversations, they'rekicking my ass slices.
They're having conversations,they're kicking my ass and
they're just havingconversations and GUIs.
They don't even bother.
There's coke?
No, no, they had bananas andwater and they just powered
through.
Yes, so it's very interesting.
I had to ask myself a question.
It must be a marketing thing.
They do it normally.
(08:26):
I did another race after that.
This was just a 10K and samething Having conversations,
water, at most A banana ifyou're lucky, that's it.
They just run and they just run.
It's very interesting because Irealized I spent the majority
of my adulthood in the States.
Right, yeah, so that was amajor difference.
(08:49):
But they also are very vocal,like when I did Lauer run
through the game park.
They're like they call meauntie, auntie, you can do it,
you can do it.
You know they can see your backof the path.
Lisa Danylchuk (09:05):
But yeah, so it was very, very, very, very
interesting I want to startsaying that to you and we're on
the trail and be like oh, Idon't know today I'm not feeling
it until you can do it untilyou can do it tell myself that
too, yeah yeah, you can do it, Iknow, I know, so, so, so that's
that's the difference you.
Nyobugi Okullo (09:23):
Here we are.
Oh my gosh, I will nevercomplain about.
When I went to aid stationthree, they were out of Coke or
Sprite or ginger.
Ale, come run with us, keny,too much and all of that.
Lisa Danylchuk (09:34):
So I mean you are out, especially if you're
out for a long.
You know 100-mile race, youreally got to fuel.
So it's funny to see thatdifference and it's like, okay,
well, here's a banana if you'rehungry.
Like you have one option, one,but yeah.
Nyobugi Okullo (09:56):
Yeah, and the idea of even carrying this goo.
I tried to give one to someone.
Lisa Danylchuk (10:03):
I'm like no Right, and there's so many elite
runners that come straight outof Kenya and I've never been
running there, I've never beenin a running community there, so
I just don't have a sense ofwhat that's like.
I have visions, I've made up inmy mind, of people, just with
ease, you know, gallopingthrough, and now, with what
(10:25):
you're saying, I'm like they'retaking a little bit of water,
maybe eating a banana, butthey're just power, you know,
just pure power running.
Nyobugi Okullo (10:33):
But you know there's a common misconception
is there's that one tribe, right?
So this tribe.
They live up in a tent.
That's where most of therunners come from.
It's this one tribe.
So think about it this way.
They've been going up and downever since they were kids.
The altitude they acclimate,they're born in it, right, you
live up and then maybe school isdown the mountain and then they
(10:56):
go back for lunch and come down.
So it's just this one tribe.
You know, people have tried,studies have been done, movies
have been made, but you've seenthem win those marathons where
they finish and they're undertwo or sub two and they're just
like I could go a couple more,right, yeah, right.
So that's why I refer to myselfas the other Kenyan.
Yeah, because I'm not that yeah, well you.
Lisa Danylchuk (11:20):
You gallop around with ease on the trails
and talk to people, and you'veaccomplished some long distances
in your time too, here.
Nyobugi Okullo (11:28):
Yes, I have.
And then COVID happened and,yeah, everything was state of
disarray, ended our lives.
I went to Kenya, but running ismy thing.
Lisa Danylchuk (11:39):
Another thing that I know you've been really
involved in is your family'sfoundation, Like when you spent
some time back in Kenya.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Nyobugi Okullo (11:46):
Sure.
So after my mom passed away, mymom and dad have been very
involved in this school, andthis school is like 50 feet from
our home, and so can youimagine sitting in your house
having a latte, having Starbuckscoffee yes, we, I have
Starbucks coffee at home inKenya and there's this school
that needs supplies, or the kidsare walking around with torn
(12:10):
shorts.
So you know, so we've alwayssupported.
So what happened?
One day?
I was going up for my morning,to up the hill morning run, and
I see this little boy and I askhim I knew the kids 8 o'clock
they're in class, right?
I ask him why are you not inschool?
I was sent home for school fees, these 506.
So I said you go back to goback to class.
(12:34):
So I finished my run and I wentto the school and I paid his
school fees and that's how thiswhole stop thing started.
So then we ended up with all myfriends and 99% of them are
trail runners from the StatesGave me money.
We've renovated this school.
It's like an American school.
(12:55):
These kids are winning on alllevels.
I feed them Monday throughFriday, five days a week.
Even when I'm here, I take careof their medical.
These kids had rushes andinadequate nutrition.
You know lack of vitamins andinadequate nutrition.
You know lack of vitamins.
So I created a new menu in 2023that is not only carbs but
(13:15):
protein, and these children Ihave seen the transformation in
their lives.
So wherever I go, you'd thinkI'm like a mini president.
Auntie, the kids come and hugyou.
It's so cute.
So that's what we've done as afamily is we've started a
feeding program.
This will be year three or four.
Normally, my American friends,you guys send me stuff, whether
(13:37):
it is monetary or clothing, andlast year we had the first run.
I created a run for them, a 5Ksponsored by Brazen Racing.
Lisa Danylchuk (13:49):
Nice, how full circle.
Yes.
Nyobugi Okullo (13:56):
Jasmine and Sam sent me about almost 150
t-shirts and we did a 5K.
It was so well.
It was like a brazen race inthe States.
It was so nice.
So this year those are some ofthe things, the initiatives,
that I'm going to take.
But we have a website andpeople go in there and my
supporters normally go in whenthere's an ask.
Go in and support.
Lisa Danylchuk (14:14):
I love how organic and how relational that
is.
Like it just starts.
You're going out for your runand you see this kid and you're
like, oh, and I'm imagining theschool fees when you think about
a Starbucks coffee in theStates.
How many Starbucks coffees werethe school fees?
Right, right, right, not thatmany I'm imagining.
Nyobugi Okullo (14:30):
Right, right, right, not that many I'm
imagining.
Right, I also give themhaircuts and I don't know, lisa,
if you've ever known thirdworld countries.
Kids suffer from worms, you see, you know, because they are
always touching, touching eachother.
I deworm them.
I'm a germaphobe.
I deworm them.
The government allows me to dothat, so I do things like that.
I deworm them and it justbreaks my heart to see I'm
well-dressed and here's a kidwith torn shorts.
The one that really touched merecently was some of the boys
(14:53):
that never had underwear intheir lives.
Wow, it's not so much just feedand don't care about the rest
of the things that's going onwith kids.
So right now we have 42 kids.
I feed them Monday throughFriday.
Wednesday, I give them somefruit.
Vitamin is very important,whether it's seasonal, like
oranges, bananas and sometimeswatermelon.
We have plenty.
Some of them had never hadwatermelon.
(15:15):
They were eating the skin.
My dad was like, just let them.
So things that we take forgranted in the States.
So now, yes, on Wednesdays theyget a piece of fruit.
I reinvented the menu, verynatural foods, but they love it.
It's so much better for a kidas opposed to just giving them
(15:36):
sugar.
Yeah, definitely.
Lisa Danylchuk (15:38):
It's such a communal thing too.
I mean kids that are right nextto you, 42 kids that you've
walked by and seen the tatteredshorts and seen them struggling
with their school fees orwhatever else.
What I appreciate about that isyou saw an immediate issue,
right, an immediate problem, andthen you solve that.
Hey kid, go back to school, I'mgoing to go pay your school
(15:58):
fees.
And then, looking deeper, okay,well, what about the shorts?
And what about?
My goodness, these kids havelike, what are you eating?
You're just eating sugar.
Let's find some natural,natural foods.
And and just the layers thatyou keep building onto it.
I just imagine, too, when youmention the uh, the brazen
shirts, even before that, whenyou mention ultra runners
donating, I just see race shirts.
(16:19):
I'm like I just see this wholegroup of 42 kids running around
with, like I ran Tahoe Rim 50miler and you'll see, you know,
like ultra runners always haveso many race shirts.
Nyobugi Okullo (16:30):
We do, and I've gotten so many from different
races, and it's not only brazenrace but it's people I met
through brazen or friends, offriends, of friends.
So I would get boxes sent to mein the village from you guys in
the States, and so the wholeschool.
The feeding program is only forthe kindergartners which are
five and six years, and then theT-shirts were enough for the
entire school 130 of them, I,which are five and six years old
(16:51):
, and then the t-shirts wereenough for the entire school 130
of them.
I had more than that becauseother people keep saying it Even
now.
I need to come and collect.
I just haven't put out apublish, but there are people
waiting to give me all thet-shirts.
So that's what we do.
It's funny.
I walk around that village andit's all brazen racing.
Lisa Danylchuk (17:12):
Or some marine mark or an ITR race, know?
Or Senna right, you know, it'sso funny, you created a little
speaking of ultra family, right,trail family.
It's like you have this trailfamily here in California and
then and then you get involvedwith this thing in Kenya and
then there's this connectionbetween places and so even
people who've never been therewith you or been to the village
or met the kids, like there'sstill this connection of oh yeah
, I ran that race and you'rewearing my shirt.
(17:33):
I love how personal what you'redoing is and how much you care.
Like you're, you just keepseeing another issue and and
okay, well, there's worms intheir hair, we're going to
deworm.
Okay, well, you aren't eatingany fruit.
We're going to get you fruit onWednesdays and maybe you know,
offering a run and just.
Nyobugi Okullo (18:05):
And maybe you know, offering a run and just
engaging and caring, and I lovethat there's this bridge, though
for you living, go there.
It's like an American school,because you walk into a
classroom and I put little hooks, so, and we've also been giving
them all my friends, all of youhave been giving me backpacks,
right?
So every kid has a backpack.
They hang it.
You're teaching themindependence.
Hang their backpack.
(18:26):
And then the tables.
We bought tables just for them,because normally the government
would give them tables like forolder kids.
No, these are just tables yousit at, like when your little
daughter will go to kindergarten, you know, and it's so.
The only thing that's left forme that I always say is just the
roofing.
But everything else these kidshave, whether it's pens, papers
(18:47):
I receive a lot of pens andpapers and coloring books and
crayons and those I can buy overthere.
But sometimes if I get adonation, then I just ship it in
a container.
So I've gotten all that.
So that's why I always saythese kids are winning on all
fronts.
And a couple two years ago, forexample, a friend of mine gave
(19:09):
me $300 and I was able to buyall of them leather shoes and a
couple, two years ago, forexample, a friend of mine gave
me $300 and I was able to buyall of them leather shoes.
I wanted leather, not the cheapones that you know.
These kids, yeah, yeah, atleast I even ended up getting
them.
I was so.
I was so touched when I saw thekids Imagine your little
daughter using an adult pitlatrine, when I saw the kids
(19:32):
Imagine your little daughterusing an adult pit latrine, so I
had them construct two toiletsthat are age appropriate for
these kids.
They're only five or six yearsold.
Can you imagine I felt likethey could fall through.
Lisa Danylchuk (19:42):
Right yeah, those toilets are scary, so many
of us trail runners will justgo in the bushes instead of the
toilet.
Nyobugi Okullo (19:48):
Railrunners will just go in the bushes instead
of the toilet.
Team Bush Hashtag that I am oneof those.
Oh yeah, so they're winningDuring the day.
They have a swing set.
I bought for them Because, likeI said, there are 42, two
classes and three teachers.
So our family is paying oneteacher.
We want it so that if there'sone teacher can't make it.
Yeah, instead of waiting forthe government that's not doing
(20:11):
anything much, we're justhandling it.
We and our family and oursponsors, we take care of it,
just take care of it.
Lisa Danylchuk (20:20):
What are you going to do?
Yeah, way to show up for them,right?
Yes?
Nyobugi Okullo (20:23):
to show up and hopefully they will be adults
that also pay it forward.
Lisa Danylchuk (20:28):
Well, it really matters.
I think kids do remember that Iworked for so long with teens
and young adults and there's allthese different scales.
We could talk about moreacademic ways to measure are
there adverse childhoodexperiences or are there
resilience factors but so muchresearch comes down to one
caring adult that can make sucha profound difference.
(20:50):
And I don't know what you know.
It sounds like there's a lot oflike lack of resources in terms
of what the school has or whateven some of the kids or their
families have access to.
I don't know what theirrelationships are like with
their parents, but like if theyhave a positive relationship
with their parents, a positiverelationship with you access to
pens and paper and places to sitin school and things to create
(21:13):
art and teachers to show up andteach them.
Each of these is an extra bonusand resource and support for
them.
And I think the love that youshow up with that's so clear to
me whenever you talk about thisand I them.
You know I could just see themcalling you auntie around the
village, like that.
That has so much power in andof itself.
(21:35):
Right, the things that you'redoing are an extension of that
love, but the fact that you seethem, you value them and you
show up you solve problems andhelp them.
see the other side like that hasinfinite value, has infinite
value.
Nyobugi Okullo (21:49):
Oh, thank you, lisa.
I try, in my mother's memoryand my daddy's still with us, I
try to practice what I wastaught.
Okay, we grew up.
There was always people in ourhouse, whether they lived with
us or came to eat, so I knowthis is the right thing to do.
(22:10):
These children come from someof the most of them from very
poor families.
So it go to the point wherebyyou know, when I see a kid with
torn shoes, you know I can seethe toes, I know what to do.
I know what to do or one is untoes.
Lisa Danylchuk (22:24):
I know what to do.
Nyobugi Okullo (22:25):
Yeah, I know what to do.
Or one is well, I know what todo Because sometimes the parents
are just trying to make itright.
So, for instance, on Monday Imade sure that they have beans
and sorghum.
Sorghum is very healthy, it's amixture and because maybe the
night before they had boiledLisa, think about it boiled
(22:46):
collard greens or boiled cabbage, that's not enough to sustain
this kid.
So, moving forward, I'mthinking that instead of lunch
alone, maybe, as I get morefunding, maybe offer them
breakfast as well.
Lisa Danylchuk (22:59):
Yeah, yeah, yes.
Nyobugi Okullo (23:01):
Yeah, I think that would close that gap,
because when they go back homethey're on their own.
You don't know what they'rebeing fed.
You know it's not like us inthe States.
We are so privileged A kid canhave cereal for breakfast.
Yes, it's got a lot of sugar ortoast or something like that,
but these ones, some of them.
So those are some of the thingsthat I think, moving forward as
I get more sponsorship,offering breakfast would really
(23:24):
be a good thing to do.
I worry about them over theweekend and when they go home,
what they're going to eat, andsometimes you know the bananas
will be big.
Do you see them carrying themin their backpacks?
You know kids.
Lisa Danylchuk (23:38):
That's really smart and strategic of them.
I have seen some programs wherein schools I've worked in in the
past where they started servingbreakfast at the school for the
same reasons, because they werelike, oh, these, I don't think
these kids are quite gettingtheir nutritional needs met, so
let's just look for it in themorning or, you know, at the
early break.
And and that actually they weretracking um how it impacted
(24:01):
attendance and how it impactedperformance in school,
grade-wise or participation-wiseand improvement across the
board on those measures.
So I think it's a way to see aneed right.
Nyobugi Okullo (24:15):
Right, right, and it just doesn't end there.
You know, it's always something.
We just had a meeting with mydad the other day and we feel
that the foundation it's calledthe Okulo Foundation is on track
.
That's why I've been here allthis time, because it's running
and it's running well.
So we're doing what we need todo for these children.
(24:36):
So the children are thepriority, you know.
So we wanted to be different,to encourage our donors to see
we are making a difference.
These kids even have water.
You know drinking water thatpeople take for granted.
They were drinking it was likemuddy water, I was so sickened.
And so they drink water as partof the lunch.
(24:57):
They wash their hands with soap.
They have baby wipes.
Yeah, these little ones, theirhygiene can be questionable, I
found.
I don't know how they're doing.
They didn't even have toiletpaper, things that we take for
granted.
Yeah, these children now havetoilet paper.
They have wipes.
They wash their hands, you know.
So I would go there three days.
(25:19):
I'm not there, but my dad goesthree days a week.
He sits there and eats lunchwith them, observes Nice.
Yes, sits there and eats lunchwith them observes.
Lisa Danylchuk (25:30):
Nice, yes, amazing, yes.
It makes me think of you know,when I was growing up this was
like in the 80s.
I remember seeing commercialsfor I believe at the time these
were in Ethiopia where there wasa lot of starvation happening,
like really sad stories of kidsand then, like the donate, help
or sponsor a kid, you know and Iwas just a kid watching this
like, oh wow, that that's prettyextreme, right.
And I know people I myself havesponsored kids in different
countries.
Something about the connectionpiece and knowing, like one of
(25:54):
the places where I sponsored wasCambodian children's fund.
There was one of my yogateachers, a friend and student,
started this whole school, right, was, was there visiting, was
very privileged, saw kids livingin a literal dump with their
families, saw the abuse that washappening, saw the alcohol,
said I'm going to start a schooland then I'm going to feed them
once a day, I'm going to feedthe families once a week, just
(26:15):
similar to what you're doing andstarted a whole program there
and even moved there and livesthere now to this day.
So I sponsored a kid there once.
It's just so nice to have theconnection Again.
The relationship and the careis really important too.
Right, getting basic needs metis the bottom line is like the
number one goal, but being ableto connect and so when I think
(26:38):
of you and your dad sittingthere at lunch, it's like being
there with the kids.
I feel like there's an elementof healing, of just like hey, we
actually really care about eachother here and we're going to
express that.
I love that this is.
It just feels very grassroots,right, very like it's a problem.
I'm going to respond to it.
Oh, there's another one.
(26:58):
I'm responding to that.
There's another one, I'mresponding to that.
I'm going to talk to my friends.
Oh, look, the people at Brazenare going to sponsor a 5K.
The whole thing of it justseems very organic and
grassroots and beautiful andjust so full of love.
So I just want to celebrate youfor doing what you're doing.
I know it's good for your heartand you're so cool and you're in
it for that.
But, like I just want tohighlight and celebrate that we
can all of us can do somethinglike this right.
(27:20):
We can see a need and respondand meet it.
Nyobugi Okullo (27:24):
Yeah, you know it's.
Thank you, lisa.
I never thought that times I'mout running and I just smile.
I never thought, you know, Iwas minding my business in the
Bay Area with my ultra runnerfriends who knew I would end up
in a village or what place, avillage, you know and doing some
good work, you know.
(27:44):
And it is amazing, you know, inlife I call it a pit stop
because I never thought I wouldbe doing this and also taking
care of my dad, you know,elderly.
So I'm a caretaker and I'mdoing all this.
That's how I've been able tomaintain my sanity and also
having a very amazing supportingcast my brother and my two
(28:07):
sisters.
They're always there, you know,but it's been amazing.
I couldn't have done thiswithout my Bay Area friends.
I'm so grateful, I felt soloved, I felt the love.
Lisa Danylchuk (28:17):
Yeah, all from signing up for that one brazen
race.
Nyobugi Okullo (28:20):
Right, changed my life.
Yeah, changed my life, andthese children are the
recipients, you know.
So I can only see big thingsand good things, but what I also
want to encourage is uh, theaudience that's listening that
if any one of you wants to cometo Kenya, please, we have two
houses on our compact.
Please come stay with us, comesee what it's about, and we have
(28:43):
wi-fi ah what, ah what, I haveWi-Fi.
Okay, I'm going to sign up forthat Please come, bring your
friends, come with us, I haveroom for more than 15.
Come, let's do a yoga retreatas a fundraiser for the kids.
Lisa Danylchuk (28:56):
Let's do it.
Nyobugi Okullo (28:58):
Come on, I like that.
Anytime you need a pit stop inlife, you're tired, come over.
I love it.
Kenya is a safe country.
Plus, come see what we're doingin the village.
It's just so enriching and goodfor the soul.
Sometimes it's okay because welive lives that go, go, go, go,
go, go, go, go, go.
Lisa Danylchuk (29:15):
Yep yeah, and you know, the difference in
culture like America is very go,go, go, go, go go.
Nyobugi Okullo (29:21):
Yes, we, yes, we are Go, go, go, go go.
Lisa Danylchuk (29:24):
To the point where running all day on the
trails feels like relaxation.
I'm going to go run all day andtake a break from this
intensity.
Take a break for eight hours,six hours depending on the races
, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I want to ask you and I hopethat there's someone listening
that reaches out to you andtakes you up on this.
I really do, because I have hadpeople extend invitations to me
(29:44):
like this there up on this.
I really do, because I have hadpeople extend invitations to me
like this there was a schoolthat I was applying to work for
in Massachusetts and they had acat program in Costa Rica.
The woman from Costa Rica wasvisiting for the weekend and she
said come down.
And I was like, don't tell methat because I will.
And I did, I showed up and Islept on her couch.
So I hope somebody takes you upon this and shows up and can
meet the kids and have just areally, like you said,
(30:05):
soul-filling experience.
Nyobugi Okullo (30:07):
Yes, and they can stay.
They get to stay as long asthey want.
Lisa, we have room.
We have room, plenty of room,it's safe.
We have German shepherds atnight, you don't have to worry.
Important to know.
Important to know.
Important to know we have Wi-Fi, I have Wi-Fi.
Wi-fi, yeah, we have two houses.
So I just want people to come,and even if it's you know, just
(30:28):
come.
If you want to visit Kenya,come, come over, we'll hook you
up with a safari.
Lisa Danylchuk (30:32):
You want to do a ?
Nyobugi Okullo (30:33):
safari, that's okay, we can hook you up, but
just come and see.
Sometimes people just want torelax, yeah.
Lisa Danylchuk (30:40):
Yeah.
Nyobugi Okullo (30:41):
Yeah.
Lisa Danylchuk (30:42):
I did want to ask you too your mom, was your
mom involved with the foundationtoo?
Nyobugi Okullo (30:47):
My mother was.
No, she was involved with theschool.
With the school, yeah, my dadhad always.
In fact, I have a sister whoeven donated desks to them.
So when she passed away and Imet that little boy because
that's why I was there after herburial was now I stayed to take
care of my father, because youcannot even boil water.
(31:09):
You know how are you going tosay I'm going back to the Bay
Area, goodbye, dad, it's beengood.
I couldn't.
And, being the oldest and beingAfrican, we don't put people in
homes.
Yeah, there was nobody else.
I guess this responsibility wasleft to me as a CEO of this
company.
I had no idea, by the way.
Yeah, that's how I stayed.
(31:30):
Yeah, yeah, so that's how thiswhole thing started.
So then I decided okay, I'mgoing to put a plaque up, take
care of these kids.
And that's how I find we foundour purpose.
The grief, I guess led us tothis.
Lisa Danylchuk (31:48):
What was your mom's connection to the school?
Was she working?
Nyobugi Okullo (31:50):
there, or was she?
No, she, oh no.
My sister had a feeding programa couple of years before that,
so her and my dad were managingit for her, okay, but they used
to feed the entire school.
Wow, yes, my sister built akitchen, um, so they're very
involved.
Like I said, it's at our gate.
You enter our home and theschool is right here.
Turn right to the school, turnleft to the gate, to our
entrance to our home.
(32:10):
So he's always been.
My parents believe in education.
Yeah, always, always, so Ithink over 10 years.
Yeah, she was very involved.
Lisa Danylchuk (32:20):
And how long has the foundation been around then
?
Was that part of the feedingprogram from the past too?
Nyobugi Okullo (32:24):
No, I started this afresh.
Three, three years.
Okay, yeah, cause it'll on the19th of the month was my mom's
fourth anniversary.
So three and a half let's putit that way Okay, but I
registered as a 501C in here.
Yeah, good for you.
So that's it.
The Okulo Foundation we are upand running and anyone wants to
(32:45):
donate or come over or has anyquestions, they can reach out.
What's the best way for peopleto reach out to you?
They can go on the website I'llput it in the show notes.
My information is on there.
They can just text me on there,yeah, Okay, I love it.
Lisa Danylchuk (33:02):
So what's next for you?
You have any big races orprojects coming up.
Nyobugi Okullo (33:08):
I signed up for a running course that keeps me
sane, believe it or not.
Last week was the first time inmy life because I'm team back
of the park party in the back.
I actually ran 40 miles lastweek.
I'm tired, my legs are tired, Iknow.
So I signed up for a flat 50Kwith trails over Texas.
I haven't had a 50K.
The last one was AntelopeCanyon, which was way before
(33:31):
COVID.
So we'll see.
I hear it's flat.
Houston is flat.
I run here.
It's just flat as a pancake.
There's no hill.
I can never find a hill girl.
I go out on the trails flat asa pancake.
Lisa Danylchuk (33:42):
Okay, we're going to do it.
Nyobugi Okullo (33:46):
So that's what I'm going to do.
I want to challenge myself thisyear.
I want to run, sign up for andtrain and run for a race that's
greater than 50k, so we'll see.
Okay, maybe.
Yeah, one of my goals is thebest shape of my life in my
mid-50s, so let's see how thisis gonna go.
What do I have to lose, right?
I support you.
I fully support it what do Ihave to lose?
Lisa Danylchuk (34:09):
yeah, yeah, right, like it's like there's
something in you that's like, oh, maybe I could do that, right,
maybe I can run that far.
And and then the journey of itbrings up all these other things
, all these other opportunitiesand, you know, friendships and
relationships and people helpingyou build a school in the
village in Kenya, right, right,all these amazing things can
come of it.
(34:30):
But it starts with that.
Maybe I could do that, maybe Icould go more than 50 K.
I kind of want to.
I want to be in the best shapeof my life in my fifties, like,
yeah, you know, and and the wordcomes to mind like have the
audacity to have those goals.
But I'm like, why is that evenaudacious to have those goals?
Yeah, have those goals.
Those are great goals, you know.
Nyobugi Okullo (34:48):
But I think that I've suffered a lot from
imposter syndrome.
You know whereby I didn'tbelieve in myself you know, and
it's funny the things that youcan do when you believe in
yourself.
This has been a journey and itcontinues.
It's still a journey, but Ibelieve in myself more.
(35:09):
A friend of our mutual friendTodd Todd, even before my mom
got sick, he's like my trailhusband Get up and go run.
You know in hindsight I'm likethat's my friend.
He always got me out of bedrunning when I just want to lie
in bed and be, depressed.
You know what I mean.
He's that kind of friend.
Everybody needs a friend likeTodd.
(35:31):
Yes, agreed, he even in.
I'm here in Houston.
He always, still calls me,almost every day, but it's, it's
the belief, lisa, that's whatit is, because I used to watch
all of you running these crazyraces but I never thought for
myself because I believed that Icouldn't, I wasn't good enough,
you know.
(35:51):
And now I wake up in themorning, I'm like the first
thing I tell myself is everymorning, know your worth.
Yes, I get up and I do it.
We have seven on the schedule.
We're going to do seven.
Lisa Danylchuk (36:02):
So it's the belief.
Nyobugi Okullo (36:06):
It's a self-confidence.
Yeah, it's amazing what you cando.
There's a fine line betweenbeing arrogant, cocky and no,
I'm just confident about who Iam.
Maybe also age plays a factor.
Lisa Danylchuk (36:17):
And just recognizing that it doesn't help
you, not feeling good enough torun a long race, like that's
not helping you, that's nothelping anything, right?
If it's something you want, ifit's in your heart, and knowing
your worth first thing in themorning and then just following
up, I think one of the hardthings.
You know, sometimes findinginspiration is difficult, but
then we find it and then, on theway towards a goal, we hit a
(36:41):
snag, inevitably, and have toproblem solve.
Or, you know, sometimes you dohave to.
Well, you know it's pouringrain today, so I'm going to do
this distance tomorrow and runon the treadmill today, or
whatever.
We have to figure things out.
But sometimes, in that we don'tkeep promises to ourself, right,
or we're like, oh, it's okay,and I'm a fan of adapting when
(37:05):
we need to adapt, but alsoremembering, like seeing what's
at the root of that.
If the root of that is a beliefthat I'm not worthy of it or I
can't, or I'm not a person whogets these things, well then,
those are some beliefs tochallenge, right, like I'm worth
it and I do get to do it.
And why not me?
(37:25):
Why not?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, likeI'm worth it and I do get to do
it, and why not me?
Why not?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so what?
What are your hopes for?
You've got this 50k, maybelonger.
What are your hopes for thetrail community moving forward?
Nyobugi Okullo (37:41):
I love the trail community because I feel
they're very welcoming.
I'm hoping that when people seeme out there, they too can be
inspired to lace up, whetherthey're running a 5k or a 10k,
and especially people that looklike me.
Yes, and also the feeling thatthey should know that they're
very welcome at these races.
(38:01):
I have never felt like lessthan at any race that I've ever
ran.
Never felt like less than atany race that I've ever ran.
You know, the community totallyembraces us, and so if I can
make a difference or inspiresomeone to get off the couch, if
we can inspire people to get upand move and inspire people who
look like me, that would be ablessing because the community
(38:23):
is very welcoming, verywelcoming.
I've never felt out of place.
I was right in there day one.
Lisa Danylchuk (38:31):
I love to hear that and I mean you're such a
natural part of the communitythat we're a part of and I love
that you're there.
I know there are a lot ofconversations happening in even
like big ticket races, aboutdiversity and inclusion and how
to just get different peoplehighlighted, not only like, yeah
, get, get more diversity at thestart line, right, whether
(38:52):
that's gender, race andethnicity, you know across the
board ability but alsohighlighting different athletes
right, like highlightingpara-athletes.
So it's not always that we'rejust highlighting highlighting
para-athletes, so it's notalways that we're just
highlighting people who look acertain way or who represent
certain groups.
I think that conversation ishappening and changing and so
(39:13):
I'm with you on that.
I'd like to see that continueto change.
I've experienced the same thingthat the trail community is
very welcoming and I think inrunning in general, the biggest
thing I've come up against isthe competitiveness of really
valuing some, some races not all, not a lot of the ones that we
go to, but some races it's justso much about the front of the
pack and the P, like who's goingfastest and we're going to
(39:34):
really celebrate them, and thenby the time you finish back of
the pack, everything's closedand there's no more food Right,
like you have that happen, I'vehad that happen.
You're like where'd everybodygo?
And do I still get my swag bag?
Can I have a burrito too?
So I feel like there's alsothat inclusiveness of pace, of
body size or shape or perfect,and just in the trail running
(39:59):
community, even more than maybethe broader running community, I
feel like there's just thisinclusion effort happening right
, of shifting priorities, ofwelcoming people in and of just
celebrating all the things we'vetalked about today, how much
being outside in nature andmoving your body can feel good
and even when we are in a placeof deep grief, right, or moving
(40:20):
through the really tough stuffin life, just getting out and
moving your body.
This morning I was exhausted.
Yesterday I was so tired and Itold Alex I really need to get
out on the trail this morning.
So I had an hour, went up thehill, we've been up and down it
together, a Brandon trail to thetop.
Yeah, nice, Ran down, feelamazing.
Now Sometimes we think, oh, I'mtired, so I'll rest, and that's
(40:43):
absolutely helpful at times.
But sometimes I'm tired so Ineed to move right, so I need to
stir up some energy.
My love, like you said, todd,texting Boogie, boogie, what are
you doing?
Let's go Get up run.
Get up, go run.
You know.
And there are days where all ofus are like, nope, it's a rest
day and that's good, that's okay.
(41:04):
Yeah, that's okay, that's great.
That's part of it for sure.
It's not that we're just outthere pushing forever, but that
there's also this welcominginvitation to connect with the
earth, connect with other people, connect with your body, your
breath and, just, you know, getwhat you get out of it that day.
I've never been kind of like ayoga class.
(41:24):
I can't think of a run that I'mlike, oh, I really shouldn't
have done that.
Or a yoga class and I'm like,oh, yeah, no, I don't know why I
did yoga today.
Whenever I go out on the trail,even if I do something
different than I thought I wasgoing to do, or in a yoga class,
if I'm in child's pose orShavasana the whole time, I
usually feel better at the endand I think there's just
something about being together,about breathing, about
(41:45):
connecting with your body, and Ijust love having connected with
you, for through trail runningand the whole community, it's
just so full of love.
I feel like there's so manyamazing people out there and
given the world as it is todaylike if you pick up your phone,
I don't think you know.
I've tried to curate all myfeeds so I see a lot of love,
but I see a lot of other stufftoo, but when I get on the trail
(42:07):
with you and Todd or any ofthem, it just feels like people
are real right, cause this islike look at that hill.
Nyobugi Okullo (42:15):
That hill, you know.
And so, like I said, that's whywe keep it real.
Like you said, we talk abouteverything.
We have time, yes, we have time, and so you get to know the
real Lisa, as opposed to the hi.
See you at the next race nextweekend.
No, no, no no, you spend seven,eight hours with somebody.
You know You're like girl.
Let me tell you something, butjust nice.
(42:37):
Like you said, this is myfamily.
I give back and I give back andthen we volunteer.
If you're not running like yousaid, pick up, you're there, you
know.
It's just amazing, Amazingamazing.
Lisa Danylchuk (42:48):
It's a great community.
What would you say to someonewho's listening, who maybe has
been interested in running arace or just thinks, oh, that's
not for me, I'm not, I'm not oneof those people, or I am
nervous, I'm going to be judged,or things like that?
Nyobugi Okullo (43:04):
I would tell that person go on YouTube, pull
up, type in a trail race, anultra trail race.
You will see all shapes andsizes.
No one has ever told me oh,you're this or that.
That is the beauty of trailracing, it's such an accepting
community.
So I would tell that personrunning is the cheapest sport.
Just lace up, get out there anddo it, just do it and some of
(43:30):
this, really you can even walkit.
Start with a 5K or a 10K.
10k is six miles, 5k is 3.1miles.
Just start small baby steps.
You can do that.
Or challenge yourself to a 10Kif you've never.
You know, from couch towhatever.
Just think of it as somethingwhere you get to go.
You went to the farmer's market.
Sometimes you have to walk tothe farmer's market.
(43:50):
Well, this one, you're outthere with 200 or 300 of your
friends, people encouraging youalong the way.
There is no trail race that youwill go to and no one talks to
you.
There's no way Somebody willencourage you, somebody will
offer to walk with you.
You just meet people.
Lisa Danylchuk (44:05):
Even if you're an introvert.
Nyobugi Okullo (44:08):
somebody has to talk to you Always.
Lisa Danylchuk (44:11):
Love it.
There's people, there's snacks.
Nyobugi Okullo (44:13):
Here in the.
Lisa Danylchuk (44:13):
States, there's a lot of snacks.
Nyobugi Okullo (44:15):
Oh no, you get everything.
So just try, just make it apoint to get out there and try
the world we live in.
We need each other.
Yeah, point to get out thereand try the world we live in.
We need each other.
Yeah, we need each other.
No man is an island.
Just try, look up a race that'sclose to where you live and go
on the website.
You might.
Even if you're afraid you can't, don't have transportation, you
(44:36):
can go on the page and somebodywill ride with you.
Yeah, we'll offer to ride withyou.
Yeah, and sometimes there'seven people.
Lisa Danylchuk (44:43):
Often with each race there's people who get a
bib and then they can't show up,so they're getting away, right.
I guess there's also sometimesdiscounts available if you
contact race directors.
There's also even programs.
I know different programs inthe bay area that are
specifically strategicallylocated in lower income
communities to help with access.
So if there there's a bridgelike that that you're looking
(45:04):
for, I mean you could probablyfind a discount code or a
sponsor or someone who's justlike hey, I can't make it
anymore, somebody take my bib.
So.
So that level of access to isoften figureoutable, right.
Nyobugi Okullo (45:19):
Yeah, always, there's always.
Yeah, you can always get to arace.
You know, we carpool, and therace directors are very
supportive.
Lisa Danylchuk (45:27):
They're usually in it because they love it and
they want to share it.
Nyobugi Okullo (45:30):
Share it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Lisa Danylchuk (45:33):
So, Boogie, you've been through a lot in
life.
I know you lost your mom fouryears ago.
I want to send some extra loveout to your mom today.
I wish you.
Maybe she is listening into ourpodcast right.
I would love for her to behearing and so proud of you and
all the beautiful work you'vebeen doing in her honor.
I think it's something toreally celebrate.
Nyobugi Okullo (45:53):
I never used to give myself credit in the past,
but I do give myself credit now,for you know, I'm always like
you are doing what you need tobe doing.
I'm always like you are doingwhat you need to be doing.
Mom would be proud of wherethis foundation is headed.
We are hoping to grow and I'malways begging the villagers for
let your kids come.
Where else would a child get?
(46:14):
These are poor people, fed.
I have so much to give them.
I've been on this quest rightnow.
I've been in the States foralmost seven months.
I have clothing to give them.
I've been on this quest rightnow.
I've been in the States foralmost seven months.
I have clothing to give them.
I just shipped it.
There are two shipments.
One's about to get there andit's not so much to give them.
I just hope to give them somelove and that people care, and
(46:38):
especially my friends, Americanfriends.
They care so much.
You know that somebody caresabout them, because some of
these children, when you go tohug them, you notice it's
hugging is not even part oftheir nature.
They're afraid and then afterthat they see you, and now they
hug you every time they see you.
So, I hope that they will growup to be outstanding citizens
(46:59):
and give back.
It's about giving back.
Lisa Danylchuk (47:01):
Yeah Well, you're're paying it forward and
I think when people receive thatand see the value for
themselves, that naturally rightthat that empathy given becomes
empathy shared right yes, sowhat I have.
This is feels like such anobvious question.
I always like to ask it.
At the end, I feel like Ialready know the answer, but
(47:21):
maybe something else will cometo your mind.
What brings you hope?
Nyobugi Okullo (47:26):
What brings me hope is that kindness and
empathy and compassion stillexist.
We might see all thisnegativity in the world, but
there are good people out there.
There are people who wake upand want to make a difference.
No, we are not.
So you know, in the past, oh,americans were inward looking.
(47:48):
No, we are not inward looking.
Americans are some of the mostgenerous people in the world.
Maybe I'm plugging them becauseI'm one of them, but I have seen
it.
I live it right.
This foundation wouldn't bethere, would be in existence,
but not at this level if itwasn't for people giving,
reaching out, always asking howcan I help.
(48:08):
And one day I actually shedtears because someone just asked
me how can I help?
I mean, I asked myself when wasthe last time someone asked me
that how can I help?
What can I do?
How can I support you?
So I said, well, what can I do?
How can I support you?
So I said, well, I needclothing.
All right, I can buy it here.
(48:35):
So I just want people to knowthat I live my life based on
being the best version of myselfand being true.
I never had children, but maybethis is God's way.
I raised my sibling, but Idon't have children, but maybe
this is the way this is his giftback to me that, okay, you
don't push him out, but I gotall these kids.
I got 42 kids.
Yes, Right.
Lisa Danylchuk (48:55):
And they love you.
Nyobugi Okullo (48:57):
Oh, yes, auntie, oh, they keep running.
You'd think I'm running forpublic office, I love it, auntie
.
You'd think I'm running forpublic office, I love it.
Auntie, auntie, yes, soauntie's busy.
Auntie for president, yes.
And on some Fridays I just feelit I'll go buy cupcakes, like
you do in the States.
I'll just go and give themcandy.
Lisa Danylchuk (49:16):
They're kids, you know.
Nyobugi Okullo (49:17):
Cupcakes who doesn't like cupcakes?
Lisa Danylchuk (49:19):
Right, oh yeah, well, thank you, Bugi, for
everything you're doing, forbeing such a beautiful soul and
person.
I'm so glad that I just had theopportunity to connect with you
and to have you on the show.
Nyobugi Okullo (49:31):
Thank you so much for having me.
I've been looking forward tothis.
You are my dear friend and whenI saw your text I was like who
God continues to bless me?
Who God continues to bless me.
I am so glad.
I feel blessed and I feel veryloved.
I'm not alone in this endeavorand I will never be alone as
long as you guys are there.
(49:51):
We're in this together.
You know, tomorrow it mightsome, you know might need my
help for something.
But please come and visit.
If you want to go up to Kenya,please let me know.
You're welcome, all of you.
I love it.
I love it.
Lisa Danylchuk (50:04):
And I just have to celebrate officially your
haircut because, oh my goodness,you love it.
It's so amazing.
Nyobugi Okullo (50:12):
I feel free.
Uh-huh, I felt, you know, whenshe cut it.
I told her, cut it, yes, andthat's one of the things I was
talking about confidence.
You know, I didn't believe inmyself but, lisa, something
happened in all this.
Maybe, like you said, thehealing and the you know.
You know who you are and whatyou want, and so I'm so happy
about my hair it's even easieras a runner.
Lisa Danylchuk (50:33):
Right, I don't have to sweat it anymore as a
runner, as a yogi and for thosewho are just listening, a boogie
went from long, long.
The last picture I have withyou, your hair, was how long I
was like yeah, extensions always.
You've never seen me withoutextent, really okay yeah yeah,
and then just it's, it's justright up, right up on her head
now, right up to the front,uh-huh beautiful, stepping into
(50:57):
2025 like a boss, like a bosslike a boss.
Yeah, I love it, bo Thank youso?
much Grateful to have you on theshow.
Let's go to Kenya, let's go.
Nyobugi Okullo (51:08):
Let's go to come on down, come on down, we're
going to me now.
You're welcome.
Lisa Danylchuk (51:14):
I love it.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.