February 9, 2023 • 30 mins
Today we discuss the basics of compensation that every business owner needs to know. We are talking with David Garza, Sr. Principal at HR Catalyst on the key components to build a compensation strategy, why you need to make sure you are paying competitively against the external market, and finally how you integrate this into your overall HR strategy.
Your HR Problem Solver host is Mark Mitford, a strategic HR leader who is business and HR focused. Mark is a management team advisor with 20+ years working as an HR executive in mid-size to Fortune 50 companies. He brings in depth, hands on experience successfully leading and advising company and business leaders through all life cycle stages. Mark is viewed as a key advisor to C-Level Executives and has strengths in Improving Company Culture, Performance Management, Compensation Benchmarking, Employee Engagement, Talent Management, Leadership Development, Coaching, Succession Planning and Mergers and Acquisitions.
During his career, Mark has successfully held HR executive positions in companies such as PepsiCo, Ericsson, Nortel, Telmar, Texas Instruments and Safeco. Mark has also worked for private equity backed organizations, S Corporations, and publicly traded firms and has lived and worked extensively overseas. He has led several Enterprise wide transformations including Cultural Change and IT transformational change at Fortune 500 companies. He holds two Masters’ degrees, one in Organizational Psychology, and an MBA in Strategy and International Management.
In 2013, Mark transitioned from a Corporate HR career to start his own HR Strategic consulting company, HR Catalyst Consulting with the goal of helping small to mid-market companies in growth or change and in need of Human Capital leadership to drive their continued growth and success. You can reach us through our website – hrcatalystconsulting.com
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Good morning everybody, and just welcome or
good afternoon, depending onwhen, when you're actually
listening to this podcast.
Wanted to go ahead and tell you,just kick off with myself really
quickly.
My name is Mark Mitford.
I'm the managing director andfounder of HR Catalyst
Consulting.
But I wanted to introduce to you, um, a friend of mine, I've
gotten to know David over theyears, but David, I'd love to be
(00:24):
able to introduce a good friendof mine and an expert in
compensation, David Garza.
So David, tell me a little bitabout who you are and what do
you do to make a living.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Well, good morning marking and good morning
everyone.
Uh, thank you for theopportunity to, to be on this,
uh, podcast with you.
Mark.
I'm David Garza.
I am the founder and c e o ofCompass Human Capital Advisors.
We, uh, started our practiceback in 2011, right at the tail
end of the recession, uh, of2008.
Uh, was a transition and decidedI wanted to do some consulting
(00:56):
work.
So I helped, uh, some smallcompanies in interim HR roles.
Uh, took a little bit of a, a,um, detour.
I did a little corporate job forabout five years and then
started the practice back inErnest in, in 2018, which
coincidentally, uh, mark as agood friend, uh, was able to ask
me to come on board HR CatalystAct as one of the senior
(01:19):
principals.
So I do a couple of roles.
I do my own practice, or I dohelp small middle market
business owners who are tryingto scale their organizations and
help guide them with theirpeople issues around that.
But then, uh, on behalf of Mark,I, I've done some great work
with helping, um, many differentplayers in a vast majority of
industries, uh, get throughtheir basic HR leads.
(01:42):
And so it's been, it's been agood ride, mark.
I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Great.
Well, thanks so much, David.
Yeah.
I've really, really gotten toknow you personally and
professionally over the years,and I enjoy the relationship.
So, what was, just outtacuriosity, so back in 2011, um,
so you starting your own, yourown consulting practice.
What was the driving forcebehind you, uh, taking that big
leap of faith there out ofcorporate America into, um,
(02:07):
starting your own business?
Speaker 2 (02:09):
You know, I'll answer that in two ways cause I'll,
I'll look at it in 2011 and then2018, 2011 is more necessity,
um, was in transition.
Uh, was looking to fill the, the, uh, void between perhaps
finding a different corporaterole and actually enjoyed what I
was doing.
So I did it for about two and ahalf years working with, uh,
different companies.
(02:29):
Uh, and unfortunately I was ableto get back into a corporate,
uh, role.
But in 2018, um, I think that'swhere I tapped into my passion,
and that was more about helpingbusiness owners improve their
business through people.
But on the flip side, helpingpeople have a better experience
through their, their business,uh, or their job or career.
(02:50):
And I wasn't doing that.
Uh, uh, wasn't getting thesatisfaction in my corporate job
and, and my corporate role.
You're, you're really impactingonly that group of employees
around you and your job.
Um, this forwarded me theopportunity to actually get out
and actually try to do more with, uh, a greater audience out
there.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Yeah, that's great.
That is, no, that's, that's alittle bit, ironically, a little
bit of my story, but I knowwe're not here to talk, to talk,
learn about me.
So we're here to focus on youand really get some expertise
and you just share some wisdom,so around compensation.
So, so in today's world, youknow, we're, we're here
specifically to talk aboutcompensation planning,
compensation itself as a broadtopic.
(03:30):
And I know there's a lot offacets, especially when we're
recording this in 2023.
But can you share, when youthink about it as, uh, you know,
as a human resource, humancapital expert, what is your,
you know, what, what is your,uh, your, uh, 25 cent definition
of compensation planning,compensation strategy for in
your words?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Sure, mark.
I, I, I'll speak from the hearthere.
I think compensation, planningand, and strategy or, and
process is all about ensuringthat you are getting a return on
the comp compensation dollaryou're spending with your
employees.
And that, that means you gottahave a good plan, good strategy
out there so that, um, you know,you're ensuring that you're
(04:13):
competitive and you're gettingthe work done as you need to as
an organization.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Right.
No, that's, that is great.
So, um, so why would you say,especially in, you know, in, in,
in 2023 and beyond, what, whywould you say, especially for,
you know, the, um, when you'relooking at middle market size
companies, let's say five to ahundred million in revenue, why,
why would you say it's soimportant for those companies
(04:39):
who may not think aboutcompensation that much and
really being more strategicaround compensation?
Why would you say that's soimportant for them in these, uh,
the days we live in right now?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I would argue that for a lot of startup companies,
um, margins can be very thin.
Uh, every dollar being spent,uh, needs to be very, uh,
deliberate in terms of ensuringyou're getting your return.
And so that's the same with howyou spend your money with your
employees.
Compensation can't be somethingthat is just done on the bo pack
(05:16):
of an envelope or, orwilly-nilly.
You've gotta be very deliberatein making sure you, you, you pay
people, uh, their worth, but youalso pay and reward them for
getting things done for you sothat your spend is, is, is going
to be a good, uh, spend at adollar.
That's why I think it's, it'simportant today.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
That's great.
Thanks so much.
So, so what would you say, ifyou were going to, um, if you
were going to put in, uh, youknow, for our audience, how
would, if you were gonna say howto, um, put in the core buckets
of compensation, cuz it is sucha broad definition of just
compensation in general, if youwere going to really just
(05:56):
segment the, the avenues ofcompensation for our audience
members as business owners andbusiness leaders, what are the
core components of compensationand compensation planning from
your, um, from your definition?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
You know, there are four that jump out to me
immediately.
One is, is compensationphilosophy, how you're going to
approach, uh, your compensation.
But, you know, let's, let's becandid.
The, uh, going philosophy outthere is pay for performance.
I'm gonna spend a dollar to tryto get something outta of my
employees.
So that's, that's one thing, butreally understanding what that
means and, and understandingwhat rewarding employees
(06:34):
performance means.
Second thing, um, is your, um,competitiveness.
And that means you, you wanna bepaying well, but you don't wanna
be way far out ahead of yourcompetitors and, and you wanna
be competitive.
So it's important to have good,accurate data from whatever
resource you can find, um, withregards to compensation data.
(06:57):
The third component I think isimportant is compliance.
Just know, uh, that there arefederal laws, the federal Labor
Standards Act that dictatecertain basic things around
compensation, but then eachstate has their own approach to,
to pay in terms of what, uh, youdo with regard to compensation,
uh, and irregularity.
(07:17):
That's more payroll.
But you wanna make sure you'recompliant when you're putting
your plan together, uh, withregard to that.
And then the other component isactually the structure of
employee pay.
Hmm.
Um, how do you wanna set thatup?
Is it, is it, uh, a design whereyou have, uh, different
employees grouped in differentlevels or grades, um, and then
you pay those individualssomewhat similarly, um, or is it
(07:40):
in a way that you just kind oftake your, you know, most
important employee and, and youpay them the highest and your
most, uh, clerical employee andpay the lowest and kind of stack
rank in there.
You gotta have some structurearound how you want to, to pay
your employees.
So those are the four componentsI I think of when, when, when
asked that question mark.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Well that's great.
Yeah, no, thanks.
Thanks for that reallyinsightful, very insightful
comment.
David.
So, um, in your opinion, socompanies, you know, middle
market size companies and, and Iwould say probably lower middle
market size companies.
So again, let's say a, let's usea specific example more of a
company that's 30 million inrevenue with, um, 200 employees.
(08:23):
Um, in your experience, how welldo those companies actually do
what you're talking about aroundcompensation, planning,
compensation strategy, how well,you know, if you were gonna give
them a letter grade, let's say,um, how well do you think they
do on, on average in that 10 inand really putting the, the key
things around compensationtogether?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Well, mark, let me first say it's a, it's a mixed
bag from what I see out there.
You've got some that are doingit very well and others who are
really nonchalant about itoverall.
Great.
I would give, give is a b andthat's because I do believe a
lot of business owners have,have taken an effort to try to
put more structure around theircompensation.
But I still believe there'sopportunity to, to improve
(09:07):
particularly around a couple ofareas of structure, uh, of
decision making.
And, and I think, um, as I, as Ireflect on some of the clients
I've worked with, there's a lotof desire to do it right.
There's just not a lot ofknow-how.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Right, right.
And that's probably where Iwould imagine there, that's
where somebody like yourselfcould possibly help in, in maybe
helping them to really thinkabout it from a strategic, from
an hr, you know, somebody who'sa, an HR executive level
individual who could actuallycome in there and actually be
able to make a really bigdifference for them.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Most definitely.
And I think, uh, HR Catalyst hasbeen able to do that.
Most of the work that I've donewith you, mark and HR Catalyst
has been around compensation andhelping, uh, companies achieve,
achieve that, so.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Right.
That's
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Very
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Accurate.
Thanks.
Um, so why do you think that, doyou think it's a, uh, you know,
the question's kinda like, whydo you think that is?
Is it simply a situation towhere they don't know what they
don't know or they are sofocused on running the business,
even if they're the c e o ownerof the business?
(10:16):
What are your thoughts on why,why you think that sometimes
it's a b cause it's such animportant topic, why do you
think it's, you know, it's,it's, you give it that letter
grade?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
That's a great question and I'll tell you the,
the, um, the answer I'll come upwith is that a lot of these
business owners, um, didn't getinto business to, uh, be an HR
professional or to be anaccounting professional, to be a
bartending professional.
They had a passion around anidea, a product or a service.
And fortunate for them it tookoff and now they find themselves
(10:50):
the head of a company and theyjust don't have the know-how
expertise, cuz it wasn't whatthey were initially out to do.
And so I think at that point,any of these different systems
like compensation, uh, there'sother things like performance
management, talent management,just don't get a nod.
Um, because sometimes they justdon't know about it.
Mm-hmm.
, uh, or don't, orthey're afraid of it.
(11:12):
Uh, and, and I don't mean afraidfrom a standpoint, it's just I'm
afraid I'll get in there andmess things up.
Uh, and it's also just somethingI, I don't enjoy doing.
So I think that's why you find,uh, some companies are in a
situation where they're just notwell developed in these other
areas like compensation
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Right now.
And I think that's so true.
And that's why I think with the,you know, the, the role that you
play it, it's such a criticalrole because it's, it's a, I
think, you know, like you said,everybody, every, every business
started from one or two or threeemployees.
Um, even though, you know, the,the, the iconic businesses we
(11:47):
all know about in, you know, inthe Fortune 500 world, but yeah,
you know, that that's it.
They weren't really thinkingabout, they had a good product
and desire, worked hard, found amarket, found customers, and
then all of a sudden, you know,10 years later they may have a
20, 30, 50 million company andthey're probably like, what in
the world?
How do I manage all thecomplexity and develop processes
(12:10):
here?
So yeah, I think that's a great,really, really insightful.
So what I'm, what we're gonna donow, actually, uh, David, is
we're gonna just take a shortbreak and then we'll come back
to you in just a minute.
But we're gonna take a shortbreak and we're gonna hear some,
a little something from oursponsor.
Thanks so much, David.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
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overwhelming.
Does this sound familiar?
At hr Catalyst People strategyis our business.
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(12:52):
HR Catalyst was founded in 2013with the goal of bringing the
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We help you solve the peopleissues in your business that are
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Speaker 1 (13:17):
So David, thanks so much.
We're just coming off of a shortbreak here, so thanks for mu so
much for your, you know, I thinkyou're sharing, uh, from my
perspective, you shared somereally good nuggets, but we
wanted to drill into them alittle more and, and then the
next probably 10 or 10 minutesor so.
But, um, so as compensation, isit, you know, compensation
(13:37):
planning, is it a system, is ita process?
Is it, um, you know, what is it?
Is it, is it kind of a systemand a process?
What are your thoughts there?
Or is it both?
Or maybe something, maybe I'mnot even asking the right
question.
What are your, what are yourthoughts there?
Speaker 2 (13:53):
No, that's very, uh, insightful question there.
My, my opinion is thatcompensation is a system that's
made up of processes.
Um, there are differentcomponents to a, a, uh,
compensation system, uh,decision making.
Uh, there is a process behinddecision making when you promote
somebody, when you transfersomebody, uh, when you sometimes
(14:14):
demote somebody, you know,what's the process to get that
done?
Uh, from a compensation fairnessstandpoint and a compliance
standpoint.
Another process is, um, goingthrough, uh, at a routine basis
maybe every couple of years andgetting good market data, um,
going through the process offinding a good resource, uh,
(14:35):
locating or identifying the jobsthat you want to benchmark with
getting good data.
You don't have to do a hundredpercent of your jobs, but you
need to do those that areprobably, uh, the more common
ones.
And then you can somewhat linkthe other jobs in your company
to do that.
And so that's just a couple ofexamples.
There's processes that are allincluded within an overall
compensation system.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Okay.
No, that's great.
I know, I really do.
No, that's fascinating that youhave that explanation.
So you mentioned market data andgaming market data.
So do you have anyrecommendations for the audience
around where do you get marketdata from?
Uh, you know, how do you findthat ad and how do you make
sure, you know, nowadays, if youGoogle something, I always tell
(15:18):
people, be very careful what youlook for online, because some of
it may have a huge amount ofvalidity and some of it may be
not so much.
So do you have a recommendationor recommendations around where
you could actually, a a businessowner could find market data of
what a what, what the pay is,what the, what's it going Right.
For a, um, an accountingmanager, an HR manager, a um,
(15:41):
director of sales.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yes.
Yes.
Mark, you know, may not likewhat, what I'm about to say
here, but I have, uh, let metell you first I have 50 50
confidence in sites likesalary.com or Glassdoor.
Those are individuals that areself-reporting.
Um, and over time, if you getenough of that information maybe
becomes more valid.
(16:04):
Uh, but you don't know, uh,whether people are being
truthful or accurate in, intheir information.
I prefer going to a, a vendorwho actually is in the business
of collecting and surveying dataand actually scrubbing it to
make sure that it's accurate.
Uh, one of the things I I loveabout working here with hr, uh,
catalyst and, and, and doingsome work with them is that they
(16:24):
rely on a company called PayScale.
And they do a great job ofvetting the information.
Uh, they'll even share theirconfidence and, and how strong
the information is.
And that's based on how manypeople, uh, or how many roles
they were able to, to, to marketand get data on.
So I would encourage, if you'regoing to go out to market to get
data, do it through a, aprovider, a pay roll, um, data
(16:49):
provider, little expensive ifyou're go out and do that on
your own.
Uh, one of the nice things aboutworking again, uh, with HR
Catalyst is that, uh, HRCatalyst is able to to work and
get that information for you ata much reduced, uh, uh, cost to,
to a client.
Uh, but nonetheless, that'swhere, that's where I have more
(17:10):
I accuracy in terms of talk tomy clients about what pay levels
and what pay structure fordifferent markets are, uh, when
you look at, uh, market data.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Right.
Okay.
Great.
No, that's, that's reallyhelpful to, to make that, uh,
make that recommendation.
So is, um, now it sounds like,and I'm gonna ask the question
anyway, but it sounds like, so,so competence, cuz I know that,
um, in the HR consulting space,um, there's not a lot of people
besides maybe compensationspecialists, like a compensation
(17:42):
company that actually woulddelve into compensation.
But is is this something youactually help business owners
with currently?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
I, I currently help business owners through Compass
and also my work with the HRCatalyst mm-hmm.
and designingtheir compensation, uh, will do
anything from, uh, providingthem the data they need and they
can go off and make a decisionon their own to actually
building a structure for themand, and helping them with how
they would manage or, or gothrough the process of, uh, and,
(18:12):
and implementing a compensationplan and, and dealing with the
employees.
Um, it's, it's also just, uh,you know, we're there to answer
questions as, as an expert foryou, um, with regard to how you,
you put that structure togetheror we can do that structure for
you.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Okay.
That's great.
So what would you say, um, onthat note, David, since you, you
can help and make a differencethere, um, for business owners
who are listening to this orbusiness leaders, what would you
say who are, uh, you know, whatare the three, if you were just
gonna take it down to threethings, three reasons why should
(18:50):
they?
Um, you know, we're, we're atthe beginning of the year, um,
in 2023.
Of course, you may be seeingthis at, at a different point in
time in the year, but any, any,you know, at any point in time,
whether it's in January orwhether it's in July or
November, why is it soimportant?
What are three things you wouldsay why it's critically
(19:10):
important for a business toactually start doing this now
around creating thiscompensation system?
What are, what are your threebig critical reasons why this is
gonna be something they need toget started with?
Now?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Mark, it's a great question.
And, and again, like you said,it doesn't matter when you start
, just, just get started.
You know, number one, if I putmy business owner ad on, uh, the
number one reason is waste.
Um, are you paying what you needto be paying your employees?
And do you have a groundedmarket, uh, data that you can
rely on so that you're makingthose good decisions?
And then when you're makingdecisions, and I, and I see this
(19:46):
all too often, uh, sometimes wepush the easy button, let's just
give everybody a a 3% raiseacross the board, or, uh, let's
just not do anything for anyone.
Um, all all that can be verywasteful with regard to either
paying people what they don't orhaven't really earned, or when
you're not paying, you run therisk of turnover and people
leaving.
(20:06):
So number one is waste numbertwo, I would put into the bucket
of, um, if you can follow mehere, both turnover because of
inequity.
Mm-hmm.
, uh, if you don'thave a good plan and you've got
two people doing the same jobwith the same background and,
and the same experience and, andone's getting paid more and the
(20:26):
other isn't, uh, there's aninequity that arises there and
that creates turnover.
And I think one of the moredifficult things to do is to go
out and find good talent, uh,today.
So you wanna have a compensationplan that is ensuring that
people feel like they're beingadequately paid, fairly paid,
and that there's objective, uh,process in terms of making
(20:47):
decisions on, on pay.
And then number three, I thinkthis, the other big reason is
peace of mind.
Uh, you wanna be able to saythat when decisions are being
made about compensation, uh,when payroll is running, that if
you were ever going to beaudited or visited by, uh, a
regulator, that you can say,I've got a good fair system in
place.
I know exactly where everyone'sbeing paid.
(21:09):
Uh, we're doing thingsappropriately.
We've got good market data, andI feel good at night knowing
that.
So we're doing our people, uh,right.
And that we're compliant withthe law.
And, and so that's the otherreason why I would probably tell
you, you know, get yourcompensation system up and
going.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yeah, I know.
That's so true.
And you know, it's interestingbecause you mentioned one of
those key things there with that, uh, response, David around,
um, around turnover.
And it's amazing that you know,quite a few of the averages and
I know it's, it's, it's kind of,a lot of people don't understand
the cost of turnover.
So it's anywhere between this,the information that I've seen
(21:47):
and, and if you have differentdata points, please share, but
it's around four to$5,000 perhire to get one person in the
door.
And that, of course, that's onaverage because it's gonna be
different if you're hiringsomebody for$14 an hour versus
somebody for a hundred thousanddollars an hour.
But on average, when you look atit, all the costs of recruiting,
(22:09):
the time to go through theinterview process to get them
into the payroll system is soevery person you have that you
lose because possibly if you are, um, if you're not paying
competitively and somebody comesin and poaches them and raids
them from you and is paying themmore accurate market data, you
know, that's a person you'velost at least, well the, the
(22:32):
costage is higher, replacingthem is four to$5,000.
Um, and I don't know, is thatsomething about what you've seen
David out there as kind of anindustry average?
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Uh, I, I, I wholeheartedly, uh, believe so
and, and add on top of that,which a lot of, uh, business
owners don't think about.
It's the overtime cost.
Who's covering that person beinggone, right?
Uh, the cost of loss experience.
Um, this person may have beenvery experienced in what they're
doing now.
You gotta take some time to getsomebody ramped up to that level
as well.
There's cost there.
(23:03):
It's, it's maybe hard toarticulate, but you can feel it,
it slows you down and, and yourproductivity goes down to aunt
Loss.
And then also just the impact itmay have on, on your, uh,
goodwill reputation with yourclients.
You know, I liked working withthis person, why aren't they
here?
I may not wanna be with youanymore.
So those are costs that are, aretied into it.
But yes, it could be up to fouror$5,000, uh, for that one
(23:27):
person gone.
So you just wanna make sureyou'd hang on to your
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Folks right now.
And and that's so true, and Ilove what you just said around,
um, you know, because if, ifyou're, if this is a, a very
technical job and technicalcould be a lot of things.
One of my clients I just startedworking with as a, they do a lot
of welding.
They hire, they have a lot ofwelders.
But if you have somebody who'sdoing, you know, high-end
welding, I've worked withcompanies in the aerospace field
(23:52):
that do aerospace manufacturingon parts and, you know, they use
a comp, they use some C N Cmachine operators and
machinists, you know, those,those, you can't replace them,
you know, within a couple ofdays.
So, um, if you find a reallyskilled welder, somebody who's a
C N C operator who's using acomputer machine to actually
weld precision parts for like anF 35 or what have you, they
(24:17):
don't, they don't, they don't,uh, you know, they're not,
they're not hanging off of atree outside your door.
So just, so sometimes, you know,the cost can be the, the cost of
replacement is minimal, just thecore cost, but then the cost of
knowledge and experience can be50, 75, a hundred thousand
dollars for that individual andall that productivity and the
(24:37):
lost experience and gettingthings done.
So that's huge.
Um, with that, David, thanks somuch for this conversation.
It's been hugely ex uh,insightful for me.
Um, I've learned, you know, thething I love about doing this
too, I learned a few thingsalong the way too.
So, um, any final thoughts onthe topic before we move to some
round kind of fun questions towrap things up?
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Not at all, other than the fact that, uh,
compensation doesn't have to be,doesn't have to be hard.
Don't, don't be afraid of it,but get somebody who knows what
they're doing, uh, in there tohelp you.
And, and once it's implemented,it's, uh, hopefully something
that you're gonna, it's gonnabear fruit for
Speaker 1 (25:13):
You.
Great.
No, that's perfect.
So it's okay, we're gonna moveon to some, uh, I don't know if
they're softballs or not.
Sometimes they're a little bitharder than they, uh, they
should be.
But with that, um, so what are,what are three books you'd
recommend, uh, that the audienceshould actually, uh, go ahead
and, and read, and why are, whywould they, why should they read
(25:34):
these three books that are kindalike your, your favorites?
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Oh my gosh.
I'm gonna look up on mybookshelf here.
I will tell you, number one, uh,impactful book for me was good
to great, um, uh, by, um,Collins.
Uh, it was a great book and agreat read.
Um, really taught me a lot moreabout, you know, how companies
get their momentum going.
Uh, the other one is by Patrick.
It's, um, the five, uh,misfunctions of a team.
(26:00):
Mm-hmm.
, uh, that was veryimportant in my time during the
corporate life to understand howto get the executive teams
working together with regard to,um, you know, what they do, uh,
as a team, uh, together.
And then, uh, team of teams, um,was an important book for me.
It was from General McChrystal.
(26:21):
Hmm.
Um, it really, it was more aboutan experience of him and, and
combat, um, and how complex thebattlefield is today.
And you had to work less withthe traditional structure of a
military and you had to workwith a, a team of teams.
So there were some good, uh,nuggets in that book as as well.
And I, forgive me cuz I'mprobably, uh, messing up some of
(26:41):
the titles, um, with that.
But those are three books thathave been most impactful.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah.
Oh, no, that's great.
That's, no, thanks for that.
So, um, so two podcasts.
I'm not sure if you're a personthat listens to podcasts, but if
so, are there any two podcasts,uh, you know, podcast, um,
series that you, you enjoylistening to?
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, gosh, you got me.
I'm not a regular podcastlistener.
I do like the TED Talks.
I think that's just a gimme.
I enjoy some of those differenttopics, uh, that are, that are
out there.
Um, and I, I'm kind of a, uh,historical buff.
I like listening to some, some,um, podcast just for the, uh,
the, the history.
There's a current series with ajournalist named Morak, uh, and
(27:25):
he talks a little bit about someold historical things that have
gone by the wayside and, andkinda explains why they've gone
by the wayside.
That's, that's a littleenjoyable for
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Me.
Yeah, no, that's great.
No, thanks for that.
So, um, so what advice would yougive your 16 year old self
today?
Speaker 2 (27:42):
What advice would I give my 16 year old self today?
Um, you know, I would tell himto just keep plugging away.
Um, unfortunate for me, I, Ihave, I, I've, I've, everything
that I've done, uh, has beenvery deliberate at times,
unsure, maybe lack confidence ofwhether I was doing the right
(28:03):
thing, but you just keep movingforward.
Um, and there have been sometimes where I haven't, sometimes
where I've missed someopportunities as well, but just
to keep moving forward, keeptaking that step forward and,
and don't let fear oruncertainty dictate that.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Great.
No, that's perfect.
Thank you.
That's, no, that's, that's greatadvice for your 16 year old
self, I'd imagine.
So great advice for 16 year oldstoday, period.
, um, last one.
And so what is your favoriteeighties band?
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Oh, my favorite eighties band.
Um, you know, I'm, I'm thinkingof some that were in the
seventies that were making musicin the eighties, but for a band
that was created in theeighties, I would tell you, uh,
the police, uh, sting, uh, theycame out around 1980 and I
really enjoyed their music asthey were going, uh, through.
Um, but, you know, I'm always adiehard Eagles fan.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Okay, well there you go.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And recently came a good Journeyfan too, so those were outta the
seventies, but they had somegood songs in the eighties as
well.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Yeah.
That is awesome.
Well, so last thing for you,just to, before we wrap up, if,
um, if there's any audiencemembers who wanna reach out to
you directly, how, how can theyconnect with you online through,
um, email?
How, what, what is the best wayto connect with you?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Sure.
You can, uh, connect with mepersonally through my, uh,
email.
It's david.garza@compasshca.com.
Uh, and then you can check out alittle bit about my background
and what we do atwww.compasshca.com as well.
But, uh, appreciate the time,mark, thank you so much Yeah.
(29:39):
For, uh, allowing me to be behere and you were, you were
easy.
I appreciate that,
Speaker 1 (29:43):
.
No, no, I think this has been a,a great conversation.
I love, I'm gonna join doingthis and, and, um, you know, I
learned something new everytime.
I honestly, very sincerely, Ilearned something new about my
craft too, but I think it's alot of fun.
And, and David, thanks again foryour time and for the audience,
thanks again for your time andwe look forward to, uh, putting
(30:04):
together another, anothersession, uh, next month.
And we l stay tuned and we'lllook forward to sharing more
insightful information from ournext stick guest.
Thanks so much, David.
Have a good rest of the day.
Thank you,
Speaker 4 (30:16):
Mark.
Good morning everybody, and just welcome or
good afternoon, depending onwhen, when you're actually
listening to this podcast.
Wanted to go ahead and tell you,just kick off with myself really
quickly.
My name is Mark Mitford.
I'm the managing director andfounder of HR Catalyst
Consulting.
But I wanted to introduce to you, um, a friend of mine, I've
gotten to know David over theyears, but David, I'd love to be
(00:24):
able to introduce a good friendof mine and an expert in
compensation, David Garza.
So David, tell me a little bitabout who you are and what do
you do to make a living.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Well, good morning marking and good morning
everyone.
Uh, thank you for theopportunity to, to be on this,
uh, podcast with you.
Mark.
I'm David Garza.
I am the founder and c e o ofCompass Human Capital Advisors.
We, uh, started our practiceback in 2011, right at the tail
end of the recession, uh, of2008.
Uh, was a transition and decidedI wanted to do some consulting
(00:56):
work.
So I helped, uh, some smallcompanies in interim HR roles.
Uh, took a little bit of a, a,um, detour.
I did a little corporate job forabout five years and then
started the practice back inErnest in, in 2018, which
coincidentally, uh, mark as agood friend, uh, was able to ask
me to come on board HR CatalystAct as one of the senior
(01:19):
principals.
So I do a couple of roles.
I do my own practice, or I dohelp small middle market
business owners who are tryingto scale their organizations and
help guide them with theirpeople issues around that.
But then, uh, on behalf of Mark,I, I've done some great work
with helping, um, many differentplayers in a vast majority of
industries, uh, get throughtheir basic HR leads.
(01:42):
And so it's been, it's been agood ride, mark.
I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Great.
Well, thanks so much, David.
Yeah.
I've really, really gotten toknow you personally and
professionally over the years,and I enjoy the relationship.
So, what was, just outtacuriosity, so back in 2011, um,
so you starting your own, yourown consulting practice.
What was the driving forcebehind you, uh, taking that big
leap of faith there out ofcorporate America into, um,
(02:07):
starting your own business?
Speaker 2 (02:09):
You know, I'll answer that in two ways cause I'll,
I'll look at it in 2011 and then2018, 2011 is more necessity,
um, was in transition.
Uh, was looking to fill the, the, uh, void between perhaps
finding a different corporaterole and actually enjoyed what I
was doing.
So I did it for about two and ahalf years working with, uh,
different companies.
(02:29):
Uh, and unfortunately I was ableto get back into a corporate,
uh, role.
But in 2018, um, I think that'swhere I tapped into my passion,
and that was more about helpingbusiness owners improve their
business through people.
But on the flip side, helpingpeople have a better experience
through their, their business,uh, or their job or career.
(02:50):
And I wasn't doing that.
Uh, uh, wasn't getting thesatisfaction in my corporate job
and, and my corporate role.
You're, you're really impactingonly that group of employees
around you and your job.
Um, this forwarded me theopportunity to actually get out
and actually try to do more with, uh, a greater audience out
there.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Yeah, that's great.
That is, no, that's, that's alittle bit, ironically, a little
bit of my story, but I knowwe're not here to talk, to talk,
learn about me.
So we're here to focus on youand really get some expertise
and you just share some wisdom,so around compensation.
So, so in today's world, youknow, we're, we're here
specifically to talk aboutcompensation planning,
compensation itself as a broadtopic.
(03:30):
And I know there's a lot offacets, especially when we're
recording this in 2023.
But can you share, when youthink about it as, uh, you know,
as a human resource, humancapital expert, what is your,
you know, what, what is your,uh, your, uh, 25 cent definition
of compensation planning,compensation strategy for in
your words?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Sure, mark.
I, I, I'll speak from the hearthere.
I think compensation, planningand, and strategy or, and
process is all about ensuringthat you are getting a return on
the comp compensation dollaryou're spending with your
employees.
And that, that means you gottahave a good plan, good strategy
out there so that, um, you know,you're ensuring that you're
(04:13):
competitive and you're gettingthe work done as you need to as
an organization.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Right.
No, that's, that is great.
So, um, so why would you say,especially in, you know, in, in,
in 2023 and beyond, what, whywould you say, especially for,
you know, the, um, when you'relooking at middle market size
companies, let's say five to ahundred million in revenue, why,
why would you say it's soimportant for those companies
(04:39):
who may not think aboutcompensation that much and
really being more strategicaround compensation?
Why would you say that's soimportant for them in these, uh,
the days we live in right now?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I would argue that for a lot of startup companies,
um, margins can be very thin.
Uh, every dollar being spent,uh, needs to be very, uh,
deliberate in terms of ensuringyou're getting your return.
And so that's the same with howyou spend your money with your
employees.
Compensation can't be somethingthat is just done on the bo pack
(05:16):
of an envelope or, orwilly-nilly.
You've gotta be very deliberatein making sure you, you, you pay
people, uh, their worth, but youalso pay and reward them for
getting things done for you sothat your spend is, is, is going
to be a good, uh, spend at adollar.
That's why I think it's, it'simportant today.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
That's great.
Thanks so much.
So, so what would you say, ifyou were going to, um, if you
were going to put in, uh, youknow, for our audience, how
would, if you were gonna say howto, um, put in the core buckets
of compensation, cuz it is sucha broad definition of just
compensation in general, if youwere going to really just
(05:56):
segment the, the avenues ofcompensation for our audience
members as business owners andbusiness leaders, what are the
core components of compensationand compensation planning from
your, um, from your definition?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
You know, there are four that jump out to me
immediately.
One is, is compensationphilosophy, how you're going to
approach, uh, your compensation.
But, you know, let's, let's becandid.
The, uh, going philosophy outthere is pay for performance.
I'm gonna spend a dollar to tryto get something outta of my
employees.
So that's, that's one thing, butreally understanding what that
means and, and understandingwhat rewarding employees
(06:34):
performance means.
Second thing, um, is your, um,competitiveness.
And that means you, you wanna bepaying well, but you don't wanna
be way far out ahead of yourcompetitors and, and you wanna
be competitive.
So it's important to have good,accurate data from whatever
resource you can find, um, withregards to compensation data.
(06:57):
The third component I think isimportant is compliance.
Just know, uh, that there arefederal laws, the federal Labor
Standards Act that dictatecertain basic things around
compensation, but then eachstate has their own approach to,
to pay in terms of what, uh, youdo with regard to compensation,
uh, and irregularity.
(07:17):
That's more payroll.
But you wanna make sure you'recompliant when you're putting
your plan together, uh, withregard to that.
And then the other component isactually the structure of
employee pay.
Hmm.
Um, how do you wanna set thatup?
Is it, is it, uh, a design whereyou have, uh, different
employees grouped in differentlevels or grades, um, and then
you pay those individualssomewhat similarly, um, or is it
(07:40):
in a way that you just kind oftake your, you know, most
important employee and, and youpay them the highest and your
most, uh, clerical employee andpay the lowest and kind of stack
rank in there.
You gotta have some structurearound how you want to, to pay
your employees.
So those are the four componentsI I think of when, when, when
asked that question mark.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Well that's great.
Yeah, no, thanks.
Thanks for that reallyinsightful, very insightful
comment.
David.
So, um, in your opinion, socompanies, you know, middle
market size companies and, and Iwould say probably lower middle
market size companies.
So again, let's say a, let's usea specific example more of a
company that's 30 million inrevenue with, um, 200 employees.
(08:23):
Um, in your experience, how welldo those companies actually do
what you're talking about aroundcompensation, planning,
compensation strategy, how well,you know, if you were gonna give
them a letter grade, let's say,um, how well do you think they
do on, on average in that 10 inand really putting the, the key
things around compensationtogether?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Well, mark, let me first say it's a, it's a mixed
bag from what I see out there.
You've got some that are doingit very well and others who are
really nonchalant about itoverall.
Great.
I would give, give is a b andthat's because I do believe a
lot of business owners have,have taken an effort to try to
put more structure around theircompensation.
But I still believe there'sopportunity to, to improve
(09:07):
particularly around a couple ofareas of structure, uh, of
decision making.
And, and I think, um, as I, as Ireflect on some of the clients
I've worked with, there's a lotof desire to do it right.
There's just not a lot ofknow-how.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Right, right.
And that's probably where Iwould imagine there, that's
where somebody like yourselfcould possibly help in, in maybe
helping them to really thinkabout it from a strategic, from
an hr, you know, somebody who'sa, an HR executive level
individual who could actuallycome in there and actually be
able to make a really bigdifference for them.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Most definitely.
And I think, uh, HR Catalyst hasbeen able to do that.
Most of the work that I've donewith you, mark and HR Catalyst
has been around compensation andhelping, uh, companies achieve,
achieve that, so.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Right.
That's
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Very
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Accurate.
Thanks.
Um, so why do you think that, doyou think it's a, uh, you know,
the question's kinda like, whydo you think that is?
Is it simply a situation towhere they don't know what they
don't know or they are sofocused on running the business,
even if they're the c e o ownerof the business?
(10:16):
What are your thoughts on why,why you think that sometimes
it's a b cause it's such animportant topic, why do you
think it's, you know, it's,it's, you give it that letter
grade?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
That's a great question and I'll tell you the,
the, um, the answer I'll come upwith is that a lot of these
business owners, um, didn't getinto business to, uh, be an HR
professional or to be anaccounting professional, to be a
bartending professional.
They had a passion around anidea, a product or a service.
And fortunate for them it tookoff and now they find themselves
(10:50):
the head of a company and theyjust don't have the know-how
expertise, cuz it wasn't whatthey were initially out to do.
And so I think at that point,any of these different systems
like compensation, uh, there'sother things like performance
management, talent management,just don't get a nod.
Um, because sometimes they justdon't know about it.
Mm-hmm.
(11:12):
Uh, and, and I don't mean afraidfrom a standpoint, it's just I'm
afraid I'll get in there andmess things up.
Uh, and it's also just somethingI, I don't enjoy doing.
So I think that's why you find,uh, some companies are in a
situation where they're just notwell developed in these other
areas like compensation
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Right now.
And I think that's so true.
And that's why I think with the,you know, the, the role that you
play it, it's such a criticalrole because it's, it's a, I
think, you know, like you said,everybody, every, every business
started from one or two or threeemployees.
Um, even though, you know, the,the, the iconic businesses we
(11:47):
all know about in, you know, inthe Fortune 500 world, but yeah,
you know, that that's it.
They weren't really thinkingabout, they had a good product
and desire, worked hard, found amarket, found customers, and
then all of a sudden, you know,10 years later they may have a
20, 30, 50 million company andthey're probably like, what in
the world?
How do I manage all thecomplexity and develop processes
(12:10):
here?
So yeah, I think that's a great,really, really insightful.
So what I'm, what we're gonna donow, actually, uh, David, is
we're gonna just take a shortbreak and then we'll come back
to you in just a minute.
But we're gonna take a shortbreak and we're gonna hear some,
a little something from oursponsor.
Thanks so much, David.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
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Does this sound familiar?
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(12:52):
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Speaker 1 (13:17):
So David, thanks so much.
We're just coming off of a shortbreak here, so thanks for mu so
much for your, you know, I thinkyou're sharing, uh, from my
perspective, you shared somereally good nuggets, but we
wanted to drill into them alittle more and, and then the
next probably 10 or 10 minutesor so.
But, um, so as compensation, isit, you know, compensation
(13:37):
planning, is it a system, is ita process?
Is it, um, you know, what is it?
Is it, is it kind of a systemand a process?
What are your thoughts there?
Or is it both?
Or maybe something, maybe I'mnot even asking the right
question.
What are your, what are yourthoughts there?
Speaker 2 (13:53):
No, that's very, uh, insightful question there.
My, my opinion is thatcompensation is a system that's
made up of processes.
Um, there are differentcomponents to a, a, uh,
compensation system, uh,decision making.
Uh, there is a process behinddecision making when you promote
somebody, when you transfersomebody, uh, when you sometimes
(14:14):
demote somebody, you know,what's the process to get that
done?
Uh, from a compensation fairnessstandpoint and a compliance
standpoint.
Another process is, um, goingthrough, uh, at a routine basis
maybe every couple of years andgetting good market data, um,
going through the process offinding a good resource, uh,
(14:35):
locating or identifying the jobsthat you want to benchmark with
getting good data.
You don't have to do a hundredpercent of your jobs, but you
need to do those that areprobably, uh, the more common
ones.
And then you can somewhat linkthe other jobs in your company
to do that.
And so that's just a couple ofexamples.
There's processes that are allincluded within an overall
compensation system.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Okay.
No, that's great.
I know, I really do.
No, that's fascinating that youhave that explanation.
So you mentioned market data andgaming market data.
So do you have anyrecommendations for the audience
around where do you get marketdata from?
Uh, you know, how do you findthat ad and how do you make
sure, you know, nowadays, if youGoogle something, I always tell
(15:18):
people, be very careful what youlook for online, because some of
it may have a huge amount ofvalidity and some of it may be
not so much.
So do you have a recommendationor recommendations around where
you could actually, a a businessowner could find market data of
what a what, what the pay is,what the, what's it going Right.
For a, um, an accountingmanager, an HR manager, a um,
(15:41):
director of sales.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yes.
Yes.
Mark, you know, may not likewhat, what I'm about to say
here, but I have, uh, let metell you first I have 50 50
confidence in sites likesalary.com or Glassdoor.
Those are individuals that areself-reporting.
Um, and over time, if you getenough of that information maybe
becomes more valid.
(16:04):
Uh, but you don't know, uh,whether people are being
truthful or accurate in, intheir information.
I prefer going to a, a vendorwho actually is in the business
of collecting and surveying dataand actually scrubbing it to
make sure that it's accurate.
Uh, one of the things I I loveabout working here with hr, uh,
catalyst and, and, and doingsome work with them is that they
(16:24):
rely on a company called PayScale.
And they do a great job ofvetting the information.
Uh, they'll even share theirconfidence and, and how strong
the information is.
And that's based on how manypeople, uh, or how many roles
they were able to, to, to marketand get data on.
So I would encourage, if you'regoing to go out to market to get
data, do it through a, aprovider, a pay roll, um, data
(16:49):
provider, little expensive ifyou're go out and do that on
your own.
Uh, one of the nice things aboutworking again, uh, with HR
Catalyst is that, uh, HRCatalyst is able to to work and
get that information for you ata much reduced, uh, uh, cost to,
to a client.
Uh, but nonetheless, that'swhere, that's where I have more
(17:10):
I accuracy in terms of talk tomy clients about what pay levels
and what pay structure fordifferent markets are, uh, when
you look at, uh, market data.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Right.
Okay.
Great.
No, that's, that's reallyhelpful to, to make that, uh,
make that recommendation.
So is, um, now it sounds like,and I'm gonna ask the question
anyway, but it sounds like, so,so competence, cuz I know that,
um, in the HR consulting space,um, there's not a lot of people
besides maybe compensationspecialists, like a compensation
(17:42):
company that actually woulddelve into compensation.
But is is this something youactually help business owners
with currently?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
I, I currently help business owners through Compass
and also my work with the HRCatalyst mm-hmm.
anything from, uh, providingthem the data they need and they
can go off and make a decisionon their own to actually
building a structure for themand, and helping them with how
they would manage or, or gothrough the process of, uh, and,
(18:12):
and implementing a compensationplan and, and dealing with the
employees.
Um, it's, it's also just, uh,you know, we're there to answer
questions as, as an expert foryou, um, with regard to how you,
you put that structure togetheror we can do that structure for
you.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Okay.
That's great.
So what would you say, um, onthat note, David, since you, you
can help and make a differencethere, um, for business owners
who are listening to this orbusiness leaders, what would you
say who are, uh, you know, whatare the three, if you were just
gonna take it down to threethings, three reasons why should
(18:50):
they?
Um, you know, we're, we're atthe beginning of the year, um,
in 2023.
Of course, you may be seeingthis at, at a different point in
time in the year, but any, any,you know, at any point in time,
whether it's in January orwhether it's in July or
November, why is it soimportant?
What are three things you wouldsay why it's critically
(19:10):
important for a business toactually start doing this now
around creating thiscompensation system?
What are, what are your threebig critical reasons why this is
gonna be something they need toget started with?
Now?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Mark, it's a great question.
And, and again, like you said,it doesn't matter when you start
, just, just get started.
You know, number one, if I putmy business owner ad on, uh, the
number one reason is waste.
Um, are you paying what you needto be paying your employees?
And do you have a groundedmarket, uh, data that you can
rely on so that you're makingthose good decisions?
And then when you're makingdecisions, and I, and I see this
(19:46):
all too often, uh, sometimes wepush the easy button, let's just
give everybody a a 3% raiseacross the board, or, uh, let's
just not do anything for anyone.
Um, all all that can be verywasteful with regard to either
paying people what they don't orhaven't really earned, or when
you're not paying, you run therisk of turnover and people
leaving.
(20:06):
So number one is waste numbertwo, I would put into the bucket
of, um, if you can follow mehere, both turnover because of
inequity.
Mm-hmm.
two people doing the same jobwith the same background and,
and the same experience and, andone's getting paid more and the
(20:26):
other isn't, uh, there's aninequity that arises there and
that creates turnover.
And I think one of the moredifficult things to do is to go
out and find good talent, uh,today.
So you wanna have a compensationplan that is ensuring that
people feel like they're beingadequately paid, fairly paid,
and that there's objective, uh,process in terms of making
(20:47):
decisions on, on pay.
And then number three, I thinkthis, the other big reason is
peace of mind.
Uh, you wanna be able to saythat when decisions are being
made about compensation, uh,when payroll is running, that if
you were ever going to beaudited or visited by, uh, a
regulator, that you can say,I've got a good fair system in
place.
I know exactly where everyone'sbeing paid.
(21:09):
Uh, we're doing thingsappropriately.
We've got good market data, andI feel good at night knowing
that.
So we're doing our people, uh,right.
And that we're compliant withthe law.
And, and so that's the otherreason why I would probably tell
you, you know, get yourcompensation system up and
going.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yeah, I know.
That's so true.
And you know, it's interestingbecause you mentioned one of
those key things there with that, uh, response, David around,
um, around turnover.
And it's amazing that you know,quite a few of the averages and
I know it's, it's, it's kind of,a lot of people don't understand
the cost of turnover.
So it's anywhere between this,the information that I've seen
(21:47):
and, and if you have differentdata points, please share, but
it's around four to$5,000 perhire to get one person in the
door.
And that, of course, that's onaverage because it's gonna be
different if you're hiringsomebody for$14 an hour versus
somebody for a hundred thousanddollars an hour.
But on average, when you look atit, all the costs of recruiting,
(22:09):
the time to go through theinterview process to get them
into the payroll system is soevery person you have that you
lose because possibly if you are, um, if you're not paying
competitively and somebody comesin and poaches them and raids
them from you and is paying themmore accurate market data, you
know, that's a person you'velost at least, well the, the
(22:32):
costage is higher, replacingthem is four to$5,000.
Um, and I don't know, is thatsomething about what you've seen
David out there as kind of anindustry average?
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Uh, I, I, I wholeheartedly, uh, believe so
and, and add on top of that,which a lot of, uh, business
owners don't think about.
It's the overtime cost.
Who's covering that person beinggone, right?
Uh, the cost of loss experience.
Um, this person may have beenvery experienced in what they're
doing now.
You gotta take some time to getsomebody ramped up to that level
as well.
There's cost there.
(23:03):
It's, it's maybe hard toarticulate, but you can feel it,
it slows you down and, and yourproductivity goes down to aunt
Loss.
And then also just the impact itmay have on, on your, uh,
goodwill reputation with yourclients.
You know, I liked working withthis person, why aren't they
here?
I may not wanna be with youanymore.
So those are costs that are, aretied into it.
But yes, it could be up to fouror$5,000, uh, for that one
(23:27):
person gone.
So you just wanna make sureyou'd hang on to your
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Folks right now.
And and that's so true, and Ilove what you just said around,
um, you know, because if, ifyou're, if this is a, a very
technical job and technicalcould be a lot of things.
One of my clients I just startedworking with as a, they do a lot
of welding.
They hire, they have a lot ofwelders.
But if you have somebody who'sdoing, you know, high-end
welding, I've worked withcompanies in the aerospace field
(23:52):
that do aerospace manufacturingon parts and, you know, they use
a comp, they use some C N Cmachine operators and
machinists, you know, those,those, you can't replace them,
you know, within a couple ofdays.
So, um, if you find a reallyskilled welder, somebody who's a
C N C operator who's using acomputer machine to actually
weld precision parts for like anF 35 or what have you, they
(24:17):
don't, they don't, they don't,uh, you know, they're not,
they're not hanging off of atree outside your door.
So just, so sometimes, you know,the cost can be the, the cost of
replacement is minimal, just thecore cost, but then the cost of
knowledge and experience can be50, 75, a hundred thousand
dollars for that individual andall that productivity and the
(24:37):
lost experience and gettingthings done.
So that's huge.
Um, with that, David, thanks somuch for this conversation.
It's been hugely ex uh,insightful for me.
Um, I've learned, you know, thething I love about doing this
too, I learned a few thingsalong the way too.
So, um, any final thoughts onthe topic before we move to some
round kind of fun questions towrap things up?
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Not at all, other than the fact that, uh,
compensation doesn't have to be,doesn't have to be hard.
Don't, don't be afraid of it,but get somebody who knows what
they're doing, uh, in there tohelp you.
And, and once it's implemented,it's, uh, hopefully something
that you're gonna, it's gonnabear fruit for
Speaker 1 (25:13):
You.
Great.
No, that's perfect.
So it's okay, we're gonna moveon to some, uh, I don't know if
they're softballs or not.
Sometimes they're a little bitharder than they, uh, they
should be.
But with that, um, so what are,what are three books you'd
recommend, uh, that the audienceshould actually, uh, go ahead
and, and read, and why are, whywould they, why should they read
(25:34):
these three books that are kindalike your, your favorites?
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Oh my gosh.
I'm gonna look up on mybookshelf here.
I will tell you, number one, uh,impactful book for me was good
to great, um, uh, by, um,Collins.
Uh, it was a great book and agreat read.
Um, really taught me a lot moreabout, you know, how companies
get their momentum going.
Uh, the other one is by Patrick.
It's, um, the five, uh,misfunctions of a team.
(26:00):
Mm-hmm.
corporate life to understand howto get the executive teams
working together with regard to,um, you know, what they do, uh,
as a team, uh, together.
And then, uh, team of teams, um,was an important book for me.
It was from General McChrystal.
(26:21):
Hmm.
Um, it really, it was more aboutan experience of him and, and
combat, um, and how complex thebattlefield is today.
And you had to work less withthe traditional structure of a
military and you had to workwith a, a team of teams.
So there were some good, uh,nuggets in that book as as well.
And I, forgive me cuz I'mprobably, uh, messing up some of
(26:41):
the titles, um, with that.
But those are three books thathave been most impactful.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah.
Oh, no, that's great.
That's, no, thanks for that.
So, um, so two podcasts.
I'm not sure if you're a personthat listens to podcasts, but if
so, are there any two podcasts,uh, you know, podcast, um,
series that you, you enjoylistening to?
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, gosh, you got me.
I'm not a regular podcastlistener.
I do like the TED Talks.
I think that's just a gimme.
I enjoy some of those differenttopics, uh, that are, that are
out there.
Um, and I, I'm kind of a, uh,historical buff.
I like listening to some, some,um, podcast just for the, uh,
the, the history.
There's a current series with ajournalist named Morak, uh, and
(27:25):
he talks a little bit about someold historical things that have
gone by the wayside and, andkinda explains why they've gone
by the wayside.
That's, that's a littleenjoyable for
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Me.
Yeah, no, that's great.
No, thanks for that.
So, um, so what advice would yougive your 16 year old self
today?
Speaker 2 (27:42):
What advice would I give my 16 year old self today?
Um, you know, I would tell himto just keep plugging away.
Um, unfortunate for me, I, Ihave, I, I've, I've, everything
that I've done, uh, has beenvery deliberate at times,
unsure, maybe lack confidence ofwhether I was doing the right
(28:03):
thing, but you just keep movingforward.
Um, and there have been sometimes where I haven't, sometimes
where I've missed someopportunities as well, but just
to keep moving forward, keeptaking that step forward and,
and don't let fear oruncertainty dictate that.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Great.
No, that's perfect.
Thank you.
That's, no, that's, that's greatadvice for your 16 year old
self, I'd imagine.
So great advice for 16 year oldstoday, period.
And so what is your favoriteeighties band?
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Oh, my favorite eighties band.
Um, you know, I'm, I'm thinkingof some that were in the
seventies that were making musicin the eighties, but for a band
that was created in theeighties, I would tell you, uh,
the police, uh, sting, uh, theycame out around 1980 and I
really enjoyed their music asthey were going, uh, through.
Um, but, you know, I'm always adiehard Eagles fan.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Okay, well there you go.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And recently came a good Journeyfan too, so those were outta the
seventies, but they had somegood songs in the eighties as
well.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Yeah.
That is awesome.
Well, so last thing for you,just to, before we wrap up, if,
um, if there's any audiencemembers who wanna reach out to
you directly, how, how can theyconnect with you online through,
um, email?
How, what, what is the best wayto connect with you?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Sure.
You can, uh, connect with mepersonally through my, uh,
email.
It's david.garza@compasshca.com.
Uh, and then you can check out alittle bit about my background
and what we do atwww.compasshca.com as well.
But, uh, appreciate the time,mark, thank you so much Yeah.
(29:39):
For, uh, allowing me to be behere and you were, you were
easy.
I appreciate that,
Speaker 1 (29:43):
No, no, I think this has been a,a great conversation.
I love, I'm gonna join doingthis and, and, um, you know, I
learned something new everytime.
I honestly, very sincerely, Ilearned something new about my
craft too, but I think it's alot of fun.
And, and David, thanks again foryour time and for the audience,
thanks again for your time andwe look forward to, uh, putting
(30:04):
together another, anothersession, uh, next month.
And we l stay tuned and we'lllook forward to sharing more
insightful information from ournext stick guest.
Thanks so much, David.
Have a good rest of the day.
Thank you,
Speaker 4 (30:16):
Mark.
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