February 20, 2025 • 25 mins
This episode delves into the often awkward yet essential world of networking, emphasizing the importance of building meaningful connections over mere transactional relationships. By reframing networking as a mutual exchange of value and providing practical strategies, we offer insights on navigating both in-person and digital networking effectively.
➡︎ Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/KBisNWvhRMc
• Exploring the discomfort of professional networking
• Defining networking as relationship building
• Strategies for initiating conversations
• Importance of providing value in networking interactions
• Effective follow-up methods after networking events
• Transitioning from in-person to digital networking approaches
• The significance of common ground and shared experiences
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Links & Mentions:
===========================
➡︎ The Challenges of Networking as an Executive
➡︎ An introvert's guide to networking | Rick Turoczy
➡︎ Why Defining Yourself by Your Career Is a Problem
➡︎ From Strength to Strength by Arthur C. Brooks
===========================
Connect with our Team of Huemans:
===========================
➡︎ Website: https://www.hueman.com/
➡︎ Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@huemanps/podcasts
➡︎ LI: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hueman-people-solutions
Don't forget to subscribe to the Hueman Resources Podcast Channel for more valuable insights on talent acquisition, recruiting, and workforce planning and management.
Visit Hueman.com to learn more about our recruiting services.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome to Real Talk on Talent, a human resources
podcast where we talk abouttalent acquisition, recruiting
and all things hiring.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Hi Dina, hi Hilary, welcome back.
I tell you it was a nice littlebreak, but we're here busting
in the new year.
First recording session of thenew year, oh my goodness.
Gracious, yeah, I mean 2025,here we come.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Here we come.
It's going to be amazing.
It already is amazing.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Well, because I'm here with you.
Thank you, and I am here withyou.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Thank you, I was waiting for that one.
All this, and you know what?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
That yeah, that was a little bit of reciprocity,
which is helpful in networking.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
All right, not how you network.
No, it's well, you're not wrong.
This is a great example.
So today we wanted to talkabout networking.
We did, and that's a greatexample of how network can
sometimes be weird.
Yeah, it's a little bit awkward.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
It is awkward, yeah, and if you're a naturally
awkward person, then it can be,which neither of us are?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
No, not at all.
But let's Okay.
But in seriousness, we arecoming up into conference season
.
We are.
We're just talking about yourconference schedule and travel
and whatnot.
So I have to admit, dina, thatI struggle with networking.
I think there are many reasonswhy I don't like it and I know a
(01:29):
lot of it is mental, which wecan get into, but you are
amazing at networking.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I don't like it either, really, yeah, no, not a
fan of it, not a fan of it Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
So maybe we need to define what we mean by, like,
not liking networking, because Ithink that's really interesting
.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
So it's funny because I would like my experiences
with you when I have to go to aconference or something.
I'm like I want Hillary to gowith me.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
And you're always my wing lady for networking.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
So I guess, yeah, like let's define networking,
let's define networking.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
We talk about conferences, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Okay so professional networking yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
In-person professional networking.
Okay, so what is that to you?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
So well, there is, you know, like a conference is
kind of a unique mostconferences.
You are there, in our case, toget new business, yep, and
occasionally we're seeingexisting clients and existing
partners.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
So the whole purpose of going to the conference.
There's some educational, butit's really to meet people to
build relationships that kind ofthing, so is that how?
You would define.
Networking in that professionalsense Is like creating and
building relationships.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I kind of think that's networking in every sense
.
I just think how I think thereis.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Then why don't we just call it like making friends
.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Oh, because I want to make this clear.
Okay, god, this is going tocome across harsh, but so.
So because it's weird, it's.
It's a line like I have hadpeople who I've networked with,
yeah, and then they try to slideinto the friend zone, and so
okay yeah, so you're notbuilding friends.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah, you're building a network of literally Well, I
mean gosh, that's how they namedit it truly is Okay, and that's
an interesting thing to saythat you don't like when people
try to go from a networkconnection to a friend.
Yeah, because one of thereasons I struggle with
networking is I feel like I'mtaking advantage of someone.
(03:27):
Okay, like, oh, I'm meeting youbecause I want you to refer me
to someone else yeah, and thatmakes me uncomfortable.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But if you separate it and say,like people are meeting, you're
meeting these people and you'reall playing the same game, you
know that this is mutuallybeneficial.
To have these connections andlike open lines of communication
, is that fair?
Speaker 3 (03:48):
So I think that's fair.
But so the way I think of, letme just say, the friendship
thing.
So I think if we've met eachother through a business
relationship and ourintroduction was business, and
that's kind of where we landedas our common ground, for you to
expect that to kind of where welanded as our common ground,
(04:09):
for you to expect that to evolveinto a friendship, doesn't work
for me, because ourrelationship is based on a
business pretext.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
That makes sense, right?
Could it ever become afriendship?
Speaker 3 (04:16):
It could become a friendship, but like if, but
here's, I guess.
So if our relationship is basedon business, for me it's a hard
leap to have conversations withyou when we're not talking
about anything.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Got it.
I need a common ground.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Like you know, they say, when you're older it's
harder to make friends.
Oh, they don't say it.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
It is true.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
It is, and so for me.
I guess that's why I don't findnetworking that difficult.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Because it's not like you're not going into that
personal side of yourself, it'sprofessional.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah, that makes sense.
And when I network, I want tomake sure that whatever I'm
doing, I'm providing value towhoever I'm networking with.
I'm never going to people justsaying I need you to give me
this, this and this, or buy forme, buy for me, like I genuinely
want to understand where mybusiness can help their business
, and so I want to provide valueto you and I want you to
(05:08):
provide value to me.
So I think that's why it's easyfor me to network, because I
like to figure out how I canhelp.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, that's a mental shift that I think I need to
lean into more.
Yeah, that's really good.
So let me ask this Okay, thisis going to be Dina's networking
101.
Okay, st, this is going to beDina's networking 101.
Sticking for that in-personprofessional networking how do
you start a conversation withsomeone?
How do you begin thatconnection?
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Oh gosh.
So I just want to be upfront.
I am awkward.
Like is that how you break theice?
So I have certainly used thatas an icebreaker, have you
really?
So I do think that there's areality that in-person
networking is odd and it'suncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
And I am an uber transparent person.
In case we haven't picked thatup already not taking any
applications for friends.
Wow, that's so awful.
No, but I think it's fine toacknowledge it, yeah there's
nothing wrong with that.
What I do is I see somebodystanding by themselves or I see
a small group of people and Iwalk in and I'm like hey, I'm
(06:07):
Dina, this is a little bitawkward, but I know we're all
here to network.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
So I hope you don't mind.
Oh, you straight up say it.
Oh, I straight up say it.
Oh interesting, I hope youdon't mind me joining your
conversation.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Yeah, no, I mean, you know's great, but that's what I
do.
There you go, then it works,yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
I mean it works.
I mean I'm not asking, I'mtelling you Nobody's kicked me
out yet, so you know, okay, yeah.
Yeah, I think because of mydiscomfort in the idea of, like,
we're making a connection forme to use at a future date and
I'm going to reframe that,thanks to you.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Please do.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
What I do is I tend to do a little bit more of how
can I be your wing person?
So, like I actually had apresident at one of my old
companies, gave me this advicewhere, if you are alone at an
event, like a networking event,find someone else who's alone.
Yes, go up and you can just sayhey, I'm Hillary, are you here
(07:04):
with anyone else?
Yeah, sounds a little bit liketrying to pick someone up, but
that's the gist of it and theidea is, the reason that this
president gave me this advice is, she said, because if they are
alone, they're also looking forsomeone to make a connection
with and then it's easy to belike great, like let's chat,
tell me about you, and if not,then they can introduce you to
(07:26):
all the people that they camewith.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Yep, so I absolutely love that.
And another part of my strategyat conferences is I look for
people who are alone, yes, and Ijust go and talk to them.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Honestly, that's a good advice for life in general.
Yeah, find someone who's aloneand go talk to them and go talk
to them.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Maybe I don't want new friends.
I mean, I'm not again notaccepting applications.
I'm too old.
No, just kidding, I know, butyou know, I love that.
You said that You're askingthem.
Hey, are you here by yourself?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, because you know it really is like yeah,
yeah, I like that.
I will say the other thingBecause you and I do very well
at conferences, like we meet alot of people, like we have a
lot of fun, get a lot of workdone too, is my favorite
question.
I do this in work and in life.
Yes, so good, I know it Is.
I say tell me about you.
(08:14):
Uh-huh.
And I purposely do that becauseI find that if you say what do
you do, it can be a little bituncomfortable.
It kind of puts someone in abox.
Yeah, yeah.
But if I say like, tell meabout you, they can say like,
why are they at the conference?
What is it that their companydoes?
Maybe they're sick of talkingabout work and they just want to
(08:34):
talk about their newest hobby.
But it allows them to answer ina way that gives them more
freedom, more opportunity forunexpected conversation.
And I find it just.
I think it throws some peopleoff a little bit like in a good
way, yeah, yeah, as opposed tosaying like tell me, like what
do you do?
Speaker 4 (08:54):
What do you do, oh?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
yeah, here's my elevator pitch.
They have a moment where theykind of like oh yeah, like tell
me about you yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
So that makes me think of I like that approach.
I was at a conference once andit was you know, oh, what do you
do, who are you with?
And literally I had somebody go.
Oh well, it looks like we'reboth here for the same target,
so I'm going to move on.
I'm like, oh, like, that's notnetworking 101.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
No, okay, like that's bad.
So, because this actually leadsinto what I want, your thoughts
on.
Like I refer next steps out of anetworking event.
Like, so you've, you've madethese connections right and,
let's say, one out of 25actually opens into an actual
(09:39):
business discussion the next day.
Right, sure, yeah, but you'regoing to have 24 other
connections.
What do you do?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, like.
And what I mean is like, do youdo active follow-up?
What does that look like?
But also, how do you view thoseother 24 connections, knowing
that you're not going to do aproposal the next day?
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I think there's.
First, I'm not the mostorganized person, but there is a
bit.
I know, there's a bit of amethod to the madness.
So I think for me, when I'mreaching out to somebody, I want
to make sure that I'm alwaysreaching out and providing value
.
The idea of just reaching outand going, hey, just checking in
, I'm not helping you in any way.
(10:21):
So, again, I want to make surethat I'm maximizing your time
when I'm reaching out to you.
So we're in the recruitmentspace, we're in the talent
acquisition space.
So when I find something that Ithink is useful to my network,
whether it be a competitor,somebody who I potentially want
to do business with, whateverI'm going to share it with them.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I like that.
And how do you sign it off?
Do you say like hey, I justwanted to send this to you, hope
things are well Is?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
that it.
Yeah, I mean I'm not asking forbusiness all the time, I'm just
, you know, listen.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
So, for example, Mercer, you're just connecting
and maintaining open dialogue,and all that.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Exactly.
And then I always like to say,hey, if you have any recruitment
needs arise, Keep human in mind.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Got it?
If not, I will say you are verygood with LinkedIn.
Oh yeah, you do a good job atlike regularly posting things
and like keeping that active.
Yeah, yeah, can you talk to mea little bit about digital
networking?
So this is interesting, yeah,so, oh gosh, I'm really going to
come across as kind of a no, no, no, listen, hold on, let's
(11:21):
take a moment, okay.
As a woman we're expected to bepeople pleasers.
Thank you, okay, thank you, andyou are not saying anything
mean or wrong or rude.
Yeah, you are being pragmaticwith your time, you're being
strategic with your yeses andyou can have a relationship
without it being besties.
So, let's just get that on thetable.
You're the best.
(11:42):
You're the best.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Thank you, you are.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah, yeah.
Also, I have your applicationfor friendship, okay, and you
have already been approved awhile ago.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
So Hillary got there friendship okay, and you have
already been approved, oh so sohillary got there, bt dubs um uh
, this is a networking onlyrelationship I want to make.
No, I'm just kidding I mean umso linkedin.
Yeah, so I have actuallystarted declining people on
linkedin yeah, decline decliningnetwork.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
So I just ignore network.
So so, like if I know it's justa mass ad, I just ignore it.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Yeah, yeah, so you can ignore it.
I like to decline them orignore them, but so what I'm
realizing is is that a lot ofpeople are reaching out on
LinkedIn with thinking thatbecause we are a recruitment
company and I'm in recruitment,that I am obligated to help them
find a job.
(12:33):
And it's really odd, like Iwant to help people find jobs,
like that is what we do, but theway our business works is we
operate on behalf of our clientswho are organizations?
And what I've just found is justkind of a lot of people coming
(12:54):
at me in almost aggressive typeasks, and I'm like this is
interesting to me.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
So then what would you recommend instead?
Let's say you have anindividual who maybe they're in
their first professional job andthey recognize a value or a
need to build their network orstart doing that.
They're not going toconferences, yep, so they want
to digitally network.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What does that look?
Speaker 3 (13:19):
like to you.
So what I found I'm doing ispeople are reaching out to me.
Dina, I want to schedule 15minutes to talk about how you
can help me get my next job.
Okay, I now will decline theirinvitation or I will reply back
and say, hey, I appreciate youreaching out to me.
Our business doesn't operate inthat particular model.
(13:40):
I don't think I'm the bestpoint of contact for you.
If you'd like to send me over acopy of your resume, I'm happy
to circulate it with people Iknow, and if something comes
across, I would do that.
But I do think that what I findis a lot of people are cold
reaching out and there's thiskind of implied expectation of a
response, or at least it seemsthat way to me.
(14:00):
So that's not networking, right?
No, it's not.
That's cold outreach.
Yeah, that's cold outreach.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
You're right, you're right, and I guess that's as a
marketer, do what I say, notwhat I do, because I personally
am not great with LinkedIn, yeah, but what I would say is, if
someone is trying to find a newjob, instead of reaching out to
Dina, you should start lookingfor individuals who are sharing
content that you findinteresting, or are the like
(14:27):
Dina's sharing content?
Start engaging with the posts,thank you, start leaving
comments.
Post your own content.
Warm me up a little bit, butalso, it's like Dina sharing
content.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Start engaging with the posts.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Thank you Start leaving comments.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Post your own content .
Warm me up a little bit.
But also it's like what?
Because I think it goes back toyour point of networking is
mutually beneficial.
Yes, yes, and so if you're justdoing cold outreach, sometimes
you have to.
Sometimes, of course, you knowthere's a time and place.
Yeah, but digital networking isnot about finding the person
who's not standing next toanybody.
(14:54):
It's about introducing yourselfto the conversation and finding
people who are already havingthat conversation.
It's more what you said Findthat group of people who are
talking and then awkwardly jumpinto it.
Yeah, yeah.
And and when you're it's thesame thing, it's just in a
digital form, it's an I don'tknow why.
That surprises me at all.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
I don't know either, but I just feel like it should
be different.
So I kind of think it is.
So I kind of think it is,Although you know what?
No, it's really not.
So what I would say is I thinkpeople need to take the same
approach to networking digitallyas they would in person.
I'm never going to walk up tosomebody and go hi, I'm Dina, I
(15:36):
do recruitment.
We need to schedule 30 minutesright now so your company can
use me.
Oh, I do that.
Oh, I'm just kidding.
So I mean, it's kind of like awarm-up, you know, Like warm-up.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Where's the warm-up here, guys, I will say this I
think it is different Now thatwe've kind of talked through it.
The behaviors are the same,basic behaviors, because
networking is all about openingup a dialogue, finding mutual
(16:08):
connections or mutual interestor value, and then maintaining
that relationship or furtheringthat relationship in some way.
Right, is that fair?
Yeah, if you're doing that atan event, there is a frame of
reference that you're speakingof.
Similar, yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
There's a level, there's a reason.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
We are all at the same event, right, common
understanding, common ground ofsome sort, whereas digital
networking who knows, unlessyou're in like a LinkedIn group
or like you're digitallyengaging with an event of some
sort, if you're just finding aLinkedIn group or like you're
connect, you're digitallyengaging with an event of some
sort If you're just findingother people who are talking on
LinkedIn, there's a little morenuance in understanding who
(16:43):
these people are and what is thevalue you can provide them.
Yes, so I think that's why, forme, it's like.
When I'm like, why am Isurprised that it's not
different?
The end goal, the end result isdifferent, but it is different
in how you open the discussion,how you find those mutual
connections like that kind ofthing.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Yeah, yeah, concur, I like it, yeah, but I mean,
there really is value in havinga network of people and I think,
to me, you know, making surethat you're providing your
network with value and not justwith an ask, that's really where
it benefits people, you know,and so to me, that's it.
(17:21):
I want to make sure that I'mproviding value to my network.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Any last minute pieces of advice for me You've
already framed up, you'vealready helped me reframe
networking.
So even though I am, I'll sayI'm very good at going to events
and connecting with people.
Yes, but you've helped mereframe to make it a little more
comfortable, because for meit's the, so what Like the?
And then what Like what doesthat look like?
(17:45):
Yeah, and also a little morecomfort in saying you are
connected with these people, itis okay to ask of them because
you would be willing to give ifthey asked.
And then also being a littleclearer on, like the friend
versus business connection.
I think that's super helpfulfor someone like me who tends to
(18:08):
overthink all of that.
Yeah, but so any other lastnuggets of wisdom?
Speaker 3 (18:15):
I would say this is kind of a Hillary nugget of
wisdom.
I'm just going to repackage itGo and I'm not I would claim
this for myself, but literallywas refreshing myself on the
basics of networking for theconference I have to go too, oh
yeah yeah, in-person conference,talking with people don't
really know what to do, simplyIn-person conference, talking
with people don't really knowwhat to do.
Simply say tell me more.
They say something, tell memore.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Learned that from my mother.
Boom, tell me more.
Tell me more about that.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
So that's a great one .
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Oh, last thing I will say I did win networking.
Okay, go ahead, let's hear itOkay.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
So you invited me to a conference with you last year.
I did In.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
California, and just meeting random people, mm-hmm,
you know, saying who are you,and we were sitting at a table
eating lunch, which oh she, youtotally wanted networking, I
totally wanted networking.
Yes, so we're sitting at atable and lunch is both easier
and harder to make connections.
(19:14):
Um anyway, long story short, meta long lost cousin of my
husband and through ourconversation, ended up texting
my mother-in-law and identifyingour mutual relatives, including
like dates of birth and deathand connection, and so I found
him.
Later I said which of theseladies with the same name in my
husband's family tree is yourgreat-great-grandmother?
(19:36):
And he's like that one rightthere.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Yeah, I mean, you definitely won networking that
day.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
So that was wild.
So that's how I won networkingyeah.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
I'll give it to you.
Thank you.
You may be invited back nextyear.
I may be invited.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
I don't know how many more long-lost cousins I have.
Well, well listen we're goingto keep trying, yeah, so that's
great Cool, dina Hillary, Ialways appreciate.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
You have such a candor and lack of fear when you
are doing things in life.
Sometimes it bites me in thebutt.
No, it's great, we'll see.
We'll see.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yeah, hey, let's go network yes, Also first hot
takes for hot topics Sounds likeHot Pockets.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
I was just thinking that the Jim Gaffigan.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
All right.
Well, we're going to phaseright into this hot take,
because usually when you go tonetworking events, you introduce
yourself with your name,followed by your job title,
no-transcript.
Their argument is you shouldnot define yourself by your
career, and I'm going to openthis up with just a little
(20:35):
snippet of a video and I wouldlove to get your guys' take on
it.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Who are you?
You know I'm a father and agrandfather and I'm a husband,
you know.
But when people ask me thatquestion, I say I'm a professor
at the Harvard Business School.
Why?
Because that's my identity.
Okay, that's a way to identifymyself, to be sure, but if
that's how I see me, that's areal problem, isn't it?
That strips away the reallyimportant things that I have in
(21:00):
my life.
For those who see theiridentity as being a successful
professional, specificallysuccessful, that's kind of an
identity based on fear.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
Where do you think he's going with that?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Where he's going.
I have so many opinions on this, so I really like this guy.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
First, I want to start by saying that I really
like this guy.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Whitney has sent over a couple videos from him and I
support, yeah, yeah, I totallylike him.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
So first, not identifying yourself with work,
like if I was a Harvard BusinessSchool professor.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I may identify myself as that, just saying no but If
I had a really cool profession,then I absolutely would.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
I would totally identify myself as that?
Yeah, no, I mean to me, I'venever.
I don't think any of my friendsactually know what I do for a
living, right?
Yeah, yeah.
So I think my work is somethingthat I do, it's something that
I really enjoy, it's somethingthat I love and that I'm
passionate about, but it in noway identifies me.
It's not how I identify myself.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
I will say it can be very hard if you are someone
like us who started in ourcareers young, were aggressive
in our careers, progressedthrough, and I'll speak for
myself I was promoted to a bigjob very young and there's a lot
of pride that comes with that.
(22:21):
So it's very easy to then havethat be at least a pillar, like
a core tenant of your identity.
Is that the word we're usingfor this?
I almost said personality, yeah.
No, I think identity, identity,yeah.
But then the problem is is whathappens when that goes away?
That's the problem, yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
That's the problem with it, because you know so
many people like this is who Iam, this is what I do, and then
it's not there.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Well, that's what you do and who you are, and it's so
easy to blur that, because whatyou do for eight to 10 hours a
day sometimes feels like who youare, but I think it's really
important.
This goes back to, like mynetworking question, where I'm
like tell me about you, exactly,exactly.
One of the things that actuallyinspired that is I have a lot
(23:09):
of really important people in mylife who are stay-at-home
mothers and either decidedeither did not have a career
beforehand or decided to be astay-at-home mom after their
career or, like you know, kindof in that middle.
And it is really tough.
And I've seen this happen whenyou're in a discussion and
(23:29):
someone's like well, what do youdo?
Yeah, often there's like I'm astay-at-home mom, uh-huh, and
like people don't know how torespond to that.
Yeah, which is so unfair.
By the way, thank you forhaving the hardest job.
Well, not only that, like yougo with it?
Yeah, like there's so manyfollow-up questions which I
won't get into.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Like my opinion.
Tell me more.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, no, but my point is saying you have now,
and it's a perfect example.
If you say, oh, I'm a stay athome mom, it's like if you, the
first question is like oh, tellme about your kids.
Now you're asking about theirjob, yeah, whereas like who are
(24:09):
you?
Yes, and I think that's theidea of saying it tell me about
you.
Don't tell me about what you dounless you want to, if you find
that interesting, if you findthat valuable.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
It's not an easy question to answer, because it's
also it's situation dependent.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
You know, this also makes me think of, because this
has been a book that I startedand I need to restart it, so we
need to make a plug for Strengthto Strength, but it's that idea
where it's like what you do,because it's a little different
than the identity thing, though,because strength to strength is
you have these strengths inyour career and then you reach a
point where there's a lifetransition, yeah, so you have to
(24:45):
identify what the new strengthis that's taking you forward in
that, which I think is anotherreason why having that identity
to your career is so dangerous.
Hard, yeah, hard, yeah, hard isa better word.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
It's not really dangerous.
Yeah Well, I would say it isprobably a little bit dangerous.
I mean, let's be clear.
We are all at some point goingto step away from our career or
decline in our career.
Yeah, our career will notalways be there, so I don't want
to anchor who I am to somethingthat is temporary and it's so
easy to do.
Though, yeah, you know whatwill always be there Dina,
(25:20):
hillary, harry Potter.
I will always anchor to.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
I'm an adult who likes Harry Potter more than
they should Never be ashamed ofthe things you love, Dina.
Expecto Patronum.
End it on that.
Welcome to Real Talk on Talent, a human resources
podcast where we talk abouttalent acquisition, recruiting
and all things hiring.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Hi Dina, hi Hilary, welcome back.
I tell you it was a nice littlebreak, but we're here busting
in the new year.
First recording session of thenew year, oh my goodness.
Gracious, yeah, I mean 2025,here we come.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Here we come.
It's going to be amazing.
It already is amazing.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Well, because I'm here with you.
Thank you, and I am here withyou.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Thank you, I was waiting for that one.
All this, and you know what?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
That yeah, that was a little bit of reciprocity,
which is helpful in networking.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
All right, not how you network.
No, it's well, you're not wrong.
This is a great example.
So today we wanted to talkabout networking.
We did, and that's a greatexample of how network can
sometimes be weird.
Yeah, it's a little bit awkward.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
It is awkward, yeah, and if you're a naturally
awkward person, then it can be,which neither of us are?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
No, not at all.
But let's Okay.
But in seriousness, we arecoming up into conference season
.
We are.
We're just talking about yourconference schedule and travel
and whatnot.
So I have to admit, dina, thatI struggle with networking.
I think there are many reasonswhy I don't like it and I know a
(01:29):
lot of it is mental, which wecan get into, but you are
amazing at networking.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I don't like it either, really, yeah, no, not a
fan of it, not a fan of it Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
So maybe we need to define what we mean by, like,
not liking networking, because Ithink that's really interesting
.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
So it's funny because I would like my experiences
with you when I have to go to aconference or something.
I'm like I want Hillary to gowith me.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
And you're always my wing lady for networking.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
So I guess, yeah, like let's define networking,
let's define networking.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
We talk about conferences, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Okay so professional networking yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
In-person professional networking.
Okay, so what is that to you?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
So well, there is, you know, like a conference is
kind of a unique mostconferences.
You are there, in our case, toget new business, yep, and
occasionally we're seeingexisting clients and existing
partners.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
So the whole purpose of going to the conference.
There's some educational, butit's really to meet people to
build relationships that kind ofthing, so is that how?
You would define.
Networking in that professionalsense Is like creating and
building relationships.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I kind of think that's networking in every sense
.
I just think how I think thereis.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Then why don't we just call it like making friends
.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Oh, because I want to make this clear.
Okay, god, this is going tocome across harsh, but so.
So because it's weird, it's.
It's a line like I have hadpeople who I've networked with,
yeah, and then they try to slideinto the friend zone, and so
okay yeah, so you're notbuilding friends.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah, you're building a network of literally Well, I
mean gosh, that's how they namedit it truly is Okay, and that's
an interesting thing to saythat you don't like when people
try to go from a networkconnection to a friend.
Yeah, because one of thereasons I struggle with
networking is I feel like I'mtaking advantage of someone.
(03:27):
Okay, like, oh, I'm meeting youbecause I want you to refer me
to someone else yeah, and thatmakes me uncomfortable.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But if you separate it and say,like people are meeting, you're
meeting these people and you'reall playing the same game, you
know that this is mutuallybeneficial.
To have these connections andlike open lines of communication
, is that fair?
Speaker 3 (03:48):
So I think that's fair.
But so the way I think of, letme just say, the friendship
thing.
So I think if we've met eachother through a business
relationship and ourintroduction was business, and
that's kind of where we landedas our common ground, for you to
expect that to kind of where welanded as our common ground,
(04:09):
for you to expect that to evolveinto a friendship, doesn't work
for me, because ourrelationship is based on a
business pretext.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
That makes sense, right?
Could it ever become afriendship?
Speaker 3 (04:16):
It could become a friendship, but like if, but
here's, I guess.
So if our relationship is basedon business, for me it's a hard
leap to have conversations withyou when we're not talking
about anything.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Got it.
I need a common ground.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Like you know, they say, when you're older it's
harder to make friends.
Oh, they don't say it.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
It is true.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
It is, and so for me.
I guess that's why I don't findnetworking that difficult.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Because it's not like you're not going into that
personal side of yourself, it'sprofessional.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah, that makes sense.
And when I network, I want tomake sure that whatever I'm
doing, I'm providing value towhoever I'm networking with.
I'm never going to people justsaying I need you to give me
this, this and this, or buy forme, buy for me, like I genuinely
want to understand where mybusiness can help their business
, and so I want to provide valueto you and I want you to
(05:08):
provide value to me.
So I think that's why it's easyfor me to network, because I
like to figure out how I canhelp.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, that's a mental shift that I think I need to
lean into more.
Yeah, that's really good.
So let me ask this Okay, thisis going to be Dina's networking
101.
Okay, st, this is going to beDina's networking 101.
Sticking for that in-personprofessional networking how do
you start a conversation withsomeone?
How do you begin thatconnection?
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Oh gosh.
So I just want to be upfront.
I am awkward.
Like is that how you break theice?
So I have certainly used thatas an icebreaker, have you
really?
So I do think that there's areality that in-person
networking is odd and it'suncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
And I am an uber transparent person.
In case we haven't picked thatup already not taking any
applications for friends.
Wow, that's so awful.
No, but I think it's fine toacknowledge it, yeah there's
nothing wrong with that.
What I do is I see somebodystanding by themselves or I see
a small group of people and Iwalk in and I'm like hey, I'm
(06:07):
Dina, this is a little bitawkward, but I know we're all
here to network.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
So I hope you don't mind.
Oh, you straight up say it.
Oh, I straight up say it.
Oh interesting, I hope youdon't mind me joining your
conversation.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Yeah, no, I mean, you know's great, but that's what I
do.
There you go, then it works,yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
I mean it works.
I mean I'm not asking, I'mtelling you Nobody's kicked me
out yet, so you know, okay, yeah.
Yeah, I think because of mydiscomfort in the idea of, like,
we're making a connection forme to use at a future date and
I'm going to reframe that,thanks to you.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Please do.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
What I do is I tend to do a little bit more of how
can I be your wing person?
So, like I actually had apresident at one of my old
companies, gave me this advicewhere, if you are alone at an
event, like a networking event,find someone else who's alone.
Yes, go up and you can just sayhey, I'm Hillary, are you here
(07:04):
with anyone else?
Yeah, sounds a little bit liketrying to pick someone up, but
that's the gist of it and theidea is, the reason that this
president gave me this advice is, she said, because if they are
alone, they're also looking forsomeone to make a connection
with and then it's easy to belike great, like let's chat,
tell me about you, and if not,then they can introduce you to
(07:26):
all the people that they camewith.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Yep, so I absolutely love that.
And another part of my strategyat conferences is I look for
people who are alone, yes, and Ijust go and talk to them.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Honestly, that's a good advice for life in general.
Yeah, find someone who's aloneand go talk to them and go talk
to them.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Maybe I don't want new friends.
I mean, I'm not again notaccepting applications.
I'm too old.
No, just kidding, I know, butyou know, I love that.
You said that You're askingthem.
Hey, are you here by yourself?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, because you know it really is like yeah,
yeah, I like that.
I will say the other thingBecause you and I do very well
at conferences, like we meet alot of people, like we have a
lot of fun, get a lot of workdone too, is my favorite
question.
I do this in work and in life.
Yes, so good, I know it Is.
I say tell me about you.
(08:14):
Uh-huh.
And I purposely do that becauseI find that if you say what do
you do, it can be a little bituncomfortable.
It kind of puts someone in abox.
Yeah, yeah.
But if I say like, tell meabout you, they can say like,
why are they at the conference?
What is it that their companydoes?
Maybe they're sick of talkingabout work and they just want to
(08:34):
talk about their newest hobby.
But it allows them to answer ina way that gives them more
freedom, more opportunity forunexpected conversation.
And I find it just.
I think it throws some peopleoff a little bit like in a good
way, yeah, yeah, as opposed tosaying like tell me, like what
do you do?
Speaker 4 (08:54):
What do you do, oh?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
yeah, here's my elevator pitch.
They have a moment where theykind of like oh yeah, like tell
me about you yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
So that makes me think of I like that approach.
I was at a conference once andit was you know, oh, what do you
do, who are you with?
And literally I had somebody go.
Oh well, it looks like we'reboth here for the same target,
so I'm going to move on.
I'm like, oh, like, that's notnetworking 101.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
No, okay, like that's bad.
So, because this actually leadsinto what I want, your thoughts
on.
Like I refer next steps out of anetworking event.
Like, so you've, you've madethese connections right and,
let's say, one out of 25actually opens into an actual
(09:39):
business discussion the next day.
Right, sure, yeah, but you'regoing to have 24 other
connections.
What do you do?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, like.
And what I mean is like, do youdo active follow-up?
What does that look like?
But also, how do you view thoseother 24 connections, knowing
that you're not going to do aproposal the next day?
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I think there's.
First, I'm not the mostorganized person, but there is a
bit.
I know, there's a bit of amethod to the madness.
So I think for me, when I'mreaching out to somebody, I want
to make sure that I'm alwaysreaching out and providing value
.
The idea of just reaching outand going, hey, just checking in
, I'm not helping you in any way.
(10:21):
So, again, I want to make surethat I'm maximizing your time
when I'm reaching out to you.
So we're in the recruitmentspace, we're in the talent
acquisition space.
So when I find something that Ithink is useful to my network,
whether it be a competitor,somebody who I potentially want
to do business with, whateverI'm going to share it with them.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I like that.
And how do you sign it off?
Do you say like hey, I justwanted to send this to you, hope
things are well Is?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
that it.
Yeah, I mean I'm not asking forbusiness all the time, I'm just
, you know, listen.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
So, for example, Mercer, you're just connecting
and maintaining open dialogue,and all that.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Exactly.
And then I always like to say,hey, if you have any recruitment
needs arise, Keep human in mind.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Got it?
If not, I will say you are verygood with LinkedIn.
Oh yeah, you do a good job atlike regularly posting things
and like keeping that active.
Yeah, yeah, can you talk to mea little bit about digital
networking?
So this is interesting, yeah,so, oh gosh, I'm really going to
come across as kind of a no, no, no, listen, hold on, let's
(11:21):
take a moment, okay.
As a woman we're expected to bepeople pleasers.
Thank you, okay, thank you, andyou are not saying anything
mean or wrong or rude.
Yeah, you are being pragmaticwith your time, you're being
strategic with your yeses andyou can have a relationship
without it being besties.
So, let's just get that on thetable.
You're the best.
(11:42):
You're the best.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Thank you, you are.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah, yeah.
Also, I have your applicationfor friendship, okay, and you
have already been approved awhile ago.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
So Hillary got there friendship okay, and you have
already been approved, oh so sohillary got there, bt dubs um uh
, this is a networking onlyrelationship I want to make.
No, I'm just kidding I mean umso linkedin.
Yeah, so I have actuallystarted declining people on
linkedin yeah, decline decliningnetwork.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
So I just ignore network.
So so, like if I know it's justa mass ad, I just ignore it.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Yeah, yeah, so you can ignore it.
I like to decline them orignore them, but so what I'm
realizing is is that a lot ofpeople are reaching out on
LinkedIn with thinking thatbecause we are a recruitment
company and I'm in recruitment,that I am obligated to help them
find a job.
(12:33):
And it's really odd, like Iwant to help people find jobs,
like that is what we do, but theway our business works is we
operate on behalf of our clientswho are organizations?
And what I've just found is justkind of a lot of people coming
(12:54):
at me in almost aggressive typeasks, and I'm like this is
interesting to me.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
So then what would you recommend instead?
Let's say you have anindividual who maybe they're in
their first professional job andthey recognize a value or a
need to build their network orstart doing that.
They're not going toconferences, yep, so they want
to digitally network.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What does that look?
Speaker 3 (13:19):
like to you.
So what I found I'm doing ispeople are reaching out to me.
Dina, I want to schedule 15minutes to talk about how you
can help me get my next job.
Okay, I now will decline theirinvitation or I will reply back
and say, hey, I appreciate youreaching out to me.
Our business doesn't operate inthat particular model.
(13:40):
I don't think I'm the bestpoint of contact for you.
If you'd like to send me over acopy of your resume, I'm happy
to circulate it with people Iknow, and if something comes
across, I would do that.
But I do think that what I findis a lot of people are cold
reaching out and there's thiskind of implied expectation of a
response, or at least it seemsthat way to me.
(14:00):
So that's not networking, right?
No, it's not.
That's cold outreach.
Yeah, that's cold outreach.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
You're right, you're right, and I guess that's as a
marketer, do what I say, notwhat I do, because I personally
am not great with LinkedIn, yeah, but what I would say is, if
someone is trying to find a newjob, instead of reaching out to
Dina, you should start lookingfor individuals who are sharing
content that you findinteresting, or are the like
(14:27):
Dina's sharing content?
Start engaging with the posts,thank you, start leaving
comments.
Post your own content.
Warm me up a little bit, butalso, it's like Dina sharing
content.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Start engaging with the posts.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Thank you Start leaving comments.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Post your own content .
Warm me up a little bit.
But also it's like what?
Because I think it goes back toyour point of networking is
mutually beneficial.
Yes, yes, and so if you're justdoing cold outreach, sometimes
you have to.
Sometimes, of course, you knowthere's a time and place.
Yeah, but digital networking isnot about finding the person
who's not standing next toanybody.
(14:54):
It's about introducing yourselfto the conversation and finding
people who are already havingthat conversation.
It's more what you said Findthat group of people who are
talking and then awkwardly jumpinto it.
Yeah, yeah.
And and when you're it's thesame thing, it's just in a
digital form, it's an I don'tknow why.
That surprises me at all.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
I don't know either, but I just feel like it should
be different.
So I kind of think it is.
So I kind of think it is,Although you know what?
No, it's really not.
So what I would say is I thinkpeople need to take the same
approach to networking digitallyas they would in person.
I'm never going to walk up tosomebody and go hi, I'm Dina, I
(15:36):
do recruitment.
We need to schedule 30 minutesright now so your company can
use me.
Oh, I do that.
Oh, I'm just kidding.
So I mean, it's kind of like awarm-up, you know, Like warm-up.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Where's the warm-up here, guys, I will say this I
think it is different Now thatwe've kind of talked through it.
The behaviors are the same,basic behaviors, because
networking is all about openingup a dialogue, finding mutual
(16:08):
connections or mutual interestor value, and then maintaining
that relationship or furtheringthat relationship in some way.
Right, is that fair?
Yeah, if you're doing that atan event, there is a frame of
reference that you're speakingof.
Similar, yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
There's a level, there's a reason.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
We are all at the same event, right, common
understanding, common ground ofsome sort, whereas digital
networking who knows, unlessyou're in like a LinkedIn group
or like you're digitallyengaging with an event of some
sort, if you're just finding aLinkedIn group or like you're
connect, you're digitallyengaging with an event of some
sort If you're just findingother people who are talking on
LinkedIn, there's a little morenuance in understanding who
(16:43):
these people are and what is thevalue you can provide them.
Yes, so I think that's why, forme, it's like.
When I'm like, why am Isurprised that it's not
different?
The end goal, the end result isdifferent, but it is different
in how you open the discussion,how you find those mutual
connections like that kind ofthing.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Yeah, yeah, concur, I like it, yeah, but I mean,
there really is value in havinga network of people and I think,
to me, you know, making surethat you're providing your
network with value and not justwith an ask, that's really where
it benefits people, you know,and so to me, that's it.
(17:21):
I want to make sure that I'mproviding value to my network.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Any last minute pieces of advice for me You've
already framed up, you'vealready helped me reframe
networking.
So even though I am, I'll sayI'm very good at going to events
and connecting with people.
Yes, but you've helped mereframe to make it a little more
comfortable, because for meit's the, so what Like the?
And then what Like what doesthat look like?
(17:45):
Yeah, and also a little morecomfort in saying you are
connected with these people, itis okay to ask of them because
you would be willing to give ifthey asked.
And then also being a littleclearer on, like the friend
versus business connection.
I think that's super helpfulfor someone like me who tends to
(18:08):
overthink all of that.
Yeah, but so any other lastnuggets of wisdom?
Speaker 3 (18:15):
I would say this is kind of a Hillary nugget of
wisdom.
I'm just going to repackage itGo and I'm not I would claim
this for myself, but literallywas refreshing myself on the
basics of networking for theconference I have to go too, oh
yeah yeah, in-person conference,talking with people don't
really know what to do, simplyIn-person conference, talking
with people don't really knowwhat to do.
Simply say tell me more.
They say something, tell memore.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Learned that from my mother.
Boom, tell me more.
Tell me more about that.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
So that's a great one .
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Oh, last thing I will say I did win networking.
Okay, go ahead, let's hear itOkay.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
So you invited me to a conference with you last year.
I did In.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
California, and just meeting random people, mm-hmm,
you know, saying who are you,and we were sitting at a table
eating lunch, which oh she, youtotally wanted networking, I
totally wanted networking.
Yes, so we're sitting at atable and lunch is both easier
and harder to make connections.
(19:14):
Um anyway, long story short, meta long lost cousin of my
husband and through ourconversation, ended up texting
my mother-in-law and identifyingour mutual relatives, including
like dates of birth and deathand connection, and so I found
him.
Later I said which of theseladies with the same name in my
husband's family tree is yourgreat-great-grandmother?
(19:36):
And he's like that one rightthere.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Yeah, I mean, you definitely won networking that
day.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
So that was wild.
So that's how I won networkingyeah.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
I'll give it to you.
Thank you.
You may be invited back nextyear.
I may be invited.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
I don't know how many more long-lost cousins I have.
Well, well listen we're goingto keep trying, yeah, so that's
great Cool, dina Hillary, Ialways appreciate.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
You have such a candor and lack of fear when you
are doing things in life.
Sometimes it bites me in thebutt.
No, it's great, we'll see.
We'll see.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yeah, hey, let's go network yes, Also first hot
takes for hot topics Sounds likeHot Pockets.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
I was just thinking that the Jim Gaffigan.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
All right.
Well, we're going to phaseright into this hot take,
because usually when you go tonetworking events, you introduce
yourself with your name,followed by your job title,
no-transcript.
Their argument is you shouldnot define yourself by your
career, and I'm going to openthis up with just a little
(20:35):
snippet of a video and I wouldlove to get your guys' take on
it.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Who are you?
You know I'm a father and agrandfather and I'm a husband,
you know.
But when people ask me thatquestion, I say I'm a professor
at the Harvard Business School.
Why?
Because that's my identity.
Okay, that's a way to identifymyself, to be sure, but if
that's how I see me, that's areal problem, isn't it?
That strips away the reallyimportant things that I have in
(21:00):
my life.
For those who see theiridentity as being a successful
professional, specificallysuccessful, that's kind of an
identity based on fear.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
Where do you think he's going with that?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Where he's going.
I have so many opinions on this, so I really like this guy.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
First, I want to start by saying that I really
like this guy.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Whitney has sent over a couple videos from him and I
support, yeah, yeah, I totallylike him.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
So first, not identifying yourself with work,
like if I was a Harvard BusinessSchool professor.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I may identify myself as that, just saying no but If
I had a really cool profession,then I absolutely would.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
I would totally identify myself as that?
Yeah, no, I mean to me, I'venever.
I don't think any of my friendsactually know what I do for a
living, right?
Yeah, yeah.
So I think my work is somethingthat I do, it's something that
I really enjoy, it's somethingthat I love and that I'm
passionate about, but it in noway identifies me.
It's not how I identify myself.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
I will say it can be very hard if you are someone
like us who started in ourcareers young, were aggressive
in our careers, progressedthrough, and I'll speak for
myself I was promoted to a bigjob very young and there's a lot
of pride that comes with that.
(22:21):
So it's very easy to then havethat be at least a pillar, like
a core tenant of your identity.
Is that the word we're usingfor this?
I almost said personality, yeah.
No, I think identity, identity,yeah.
But then the problem is is whathappens when that goes away?
That's the problem, yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
That's the problem with it, because you know so
many people like this is who Iam, this is what I do, and then
it's not there.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Well, that's what you do and who you are, and it's so
easy to blur that, because whatyou do for eight to 10 hours a
day sometimes feels like who youare, but I think it's really
important.
This goes back to, like mynetworking question, where I'm
like tell me about you, exactly,exactly.
One of the things that actuallyinspired that is I have a lot
(23:09):
of really important people in mylife who are stay-at-home
mothers and either decidedeither did not have a career
beforehand or decided to be astay-at-home mom after their
career or, like you know, kindof in that middle.
And it is really tough.
And I've seen this happen whenyou're in a discussion and
(23:29):
someone's like well, what do youdo?
Yeah, often there's like I'm astay-at-home mom, uh-huh, and
like people don't know how torespond to that.
Yeah, which is so unfair.
By the way, thank you forhaving the hardest job.
Well, not only that, like yougo with it?
Yeah, like there's so manyfollow-up questions which I
won't get into.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Like my opinion.
Tell me more.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, no, but my point is saying you have now,
and it's a perfect example.
If you say, oh, I'm a stay athome mom, it's like if you, the
first question is like oh, tellme about your kids.
Now you're asking about theirjob, yeah, whereas like who are
(24:09):
you?
Yes, and I think that's theidea of saying it tell me about
you.
Don't tell me about what you dounless you want to, if you find
that interesting, if you findthat valuable.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
It's not an easy question to answer, because it's
also it's situation dependent.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
You know, this also makes me think of, because this
has been a book that I startedand I need to restart it, so we
need to make a plug for Strengthto Strength, but it's that idea
where it's like what you do,because it's a little different
than the identity thing, though,because strength to strength is
you have these strengths inyour career and then you reach a
point where there's a lifetransition, yeah, so you have to
(24:45):
identify what the new strengthis that's taking you forward in
that, which I think is anotherreason why having that identity
to your career is so dangerous.
Hard, yeah, hard, yeah, hard isa better word.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
It's not really dangerous.
Yeah Well, I would say it isprobably a little bit dangerous.
I mean, let's be clear.
We are all at some point goingto step away from our career or
decline in our career.
Yeah, our career will notalways be there, so I don't want
to anchor who I am to somethingthat is temporary and it's so
easy to do.
Though, yeah, you know whatwill always be there Dina,
(25:20):
hillary, harry Potter.
I will always anchor to.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
I'm an adult who likes Harry Potter more than
they should Never be ashamed ofthe things you love, Dina.
Expecto Patronum.
End it on that.
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