June 20, 2025 • 51 mins
This week on Brolapse, Ryan James (aka HungerFF) sits down with the unapologetically masked mischief-maker himself: Pink National Treasure.
From surviving small-town hate with a gun to the head, to building a fiercely protected anonymous persona, PNT opens up about why anonymity is freedom—and why once it’s gone, you can’t buy it back.
They dive deep into:
👉 The birth of the “Lesbro” mindset: two bottoms, no dick required.
👉 The plague of bad, checklist fisting videos vs. real, connected scenes.
👉 Frail masculinity and why huge holes terrify insecure tops.
👉 Toy safety, drug safety, and the cost of reckless stunts (yes, Ryan’s stoma makes a cameo).
👉 Why bait-and-switch pay-per-view scams ruin trust—and how real creators keep it honest.
Raw, real, hilarious, and refreshingly smart—this episode proves we’re more than holes for hire.
💦 Brolapse drops new video episodes every Friday at 8PM — early video access on Spotify for subscribers!
🎧 Listen & Subscribe:
Spotify: https://creators.spotify.com/pod/show/Brolapse (Early video access!)
Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/408WLLX
Amazon & Audible: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/57bbf689-250a-4c96-8559-0a79805f18b6/hungerff-presents-brolapse
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3uJBareUPFci58BJ0NtwtoIOKKuaaBIa
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Brolapse, the fistingpodcast that goes deep explore
my life, views and raw, unfiltered conversations with
the creators that are redefiningkink connection in the fisting
community. Hey, you guys, welcome back.
We're for another episode of Brolapse and this week I'm very
excited and we have somebody that's I've been watching for a
while and who's gone through an evolution since the in the last
(00:20):
couple years. Pink national Treasure is on the
show today. Go ahead and introduce yourself.
Hey, hey, hey. I'm Pink National Treasure
handle is shortened for PN Treasures.
EN yeah, PN Treasures. But that's me.
That's who I am. It's amazing.
I love all of it. If there's anybody that knows
about being extra and I'm being on brand, it's it's me.
(00:41):
So I appreciate all of the I appreciate all of it.
So I'm really excited to have you on today.
I have a bunch of questions thisand you made me feel a little
bit of an old man last night when we were talking.
And because I didn't, I've neverheard the term Lesborough before
and I'm really excited to learn about this and kind of just pick
your brain a little bit about what what the culture is and
everything like that. So.
(01:02):
Yeah. Let's start, I guess, a little
bit first with your identity andanonymity as far as like your,
your performer side goes. So you built this unapologetic
brand that also holds on to anonymity, which I think is
really impressive. So how has protecting your
identity impacted your freedom as a performer and a creator?
There's there's a few things around identity and anonymity
(01:22):
that that your question brings up.
A few things in my mind actually, I think are really
important and I didn't realize they were important or how
important they were until I've gotten this far into doing this
and how how lovely anonymity hasbeen because.
And there's like, there's probably 5 good reasons, 5
strong reasons. And I feel like just with
(01:44):
anything, there's never really one reason that we do something.
There's usually multiple reasonswhy we decide to take an action
or choose something. And I think one of the first
ones is safety. I think that many of us are in
denial about what this country really is, what it's really like
to live in this country. I think that those performers
who are privileged to live in a very accepting zone of this
(02:07):
country, maybe the larger citieswhich I've lived in, and now I
live upstate New York. So I'm not, I'm not far from New
York City, but I've lived in LA and San Francisco and I lived in
New York City Kins and I've I'm from the Midwest, essentially.
I'm from the Bible Belt. I grew up there.
So I've seen the best with this country can offer.
And I've seen the absolute worst.
And I've had a gun held to my head and I've had death threats
(02:31):
written to me for being open, just being gay.
The gun situation, it was, you would think you have safe
spaces. Sometimes you really do.
I was, I was at my sister's house just relaxing.
I wasn't out and about. This is in the Midwest.
I wasn't hitting on someone thatI shouldn't be hitting on.
(02:52):
I I wasn't offending anybody other than simply existing.
And my brother in law's brother,he just walked in and he put a
gun to my head and I don't know what he said because I kind of
went into shock and I don't remember auditory things just
shut off and I don't even remember how long he was there.
And then he left. So you know the.
Trauma, the trauma that that hadto have impacted on you that.
(03:14):
It's horrendous. I'm still working through it,
but that's that's not a unique situation.
It's actually that this extreme culture that back in the 90s was
bad and in the 80s was bad, it has just gotten worse.
And so I think we're in denial about that.
(03:35):
I think as a the gay community, I would say just, I'm very
general generalizing here. And there are many who are very
aware of it. And I think there are some that
I've met who are completely unaware of it.
And I say that as A, to set the table to in, in, in the way of
the, the pushback I've gotten from some creators who are
(03:57):
bigger names who won't create orfilm with me because they don't
like masks. They don't like to have someone
hiding their identity, which I can understand.
But those people 100% of the time, they live in these very
open, accepting places. And they, I don't think they
quite understand the gravity andseverity that some of us have
experienced or can face now. That's that's one thing now we
(04:21):
live in authoritarian country now, there's no question about
that. And it's not debatable, though
some people might try to. It's not up for debate.
And there are now even more things being done to target
people who create porn, for example, or content creators.
So that is added now another layer of why I'm grateful for my
anonymity. So those are the two, those are
(04:44):
the two kind of more really immediate safety danger things
that are kind of tied to why forme, I've chosen to have
anonymity around what I do. Now there's other things too
that play into it that have beenreally lovely that I kind of
mentioned earlier. And one of them is anonymity
cannot be purchased. So once you lose it, you can't
(05:07):
pay someone to not know who you are.
You can't erase something from someone's mind like that.
You can try, you can certainly scrub the Internet, but once you
lose it, it's difficult to get it back.
And no amount of money. And I say that because people
with money, a lot of money, that's the one thing that they
really hold on to really tightlybecause they know that once it's
(05:28):
gone, you can't get it back. And having experienced that now
in circumstances, I'm glad I'm in a circumstance right now
where this could have compromised another part of what
I want to do in my life. And it has been really lovely
not to have to worry about it. That's it, Not to have to
consider it. And I also, in that same vein,
find so much pleasure and value in having this not be my entire
(05:51):
persona because there are so many other things I enjoy doing.
Sex is just one thing in my lifethat is big and over the top.
There's other things I do in my life that are creative endeavors
that I love so much, and the narrow mindedness of the general
public could not accept the intersection of both.
That just wouldn't happen So, and I'm not out there to try to
(06:13):
change that. At least not today.
Maybe one day, I don't know, butI wouldn't say that's not what
I'm up for my. Experience has been I am
essentially the, the, the faith to your Buffy in this situation.
I, I've been on the Internet selling my face since I was a
teenager and I, there are thingsthat I've had to give up that
I've had to lose or that I have lost or maybe not gotten to
(06:35):
enjoy fully. Because the fact that everyone
knows who I am and it's, it's a difficult road to walk because I
try to go to events and I can't just go as Ryan James anymore.
No matter what I am hunger FF nomatter where I go, what bar I go
to, what event I go to, even if I just want to casually enjoy
it, I can't. That's a trade off that I've
(06:55):
made over the years and one thatI question on a regular basis
whether or not it was the right decision or not.
Because I, I wish a lot of timesI could go back and do things a
little differently. And then when I first started
hunger FFI wasn't showing my face and then I, I made a
decision to do it. And then it was just kind of
like it snowballed from there. And now I don't have any
anonymity anymore. And so I, I'm envious of the
(07:18):
ability that you have had to walk that that tightrope and
then still be able to, because I'm sure, I'm sure you can go to
events and maybe not everybody until you say you're handled,
people aren't necessarily going to know who you are right away.
Am I? Am I right?
Totally true and other funny thing about it is my face
doesn't match my body when people meet me when people meet
me. If I film with someone other
content creators and they see myface, sometimes I'll send them a
(07:41):
photo of my face beforehand so they're they know what I look
like, but sometimes they don't. And and they always are like if
the face does not match the bodyat all, like, and I get it
totally is like, and it's intentional like that.
I like I said, I like having this totally different look and
feel and vibe and energy outsideof what I do sexually too.
(08:02):
And it's so liberating and freeing to have the separation.
And like you said, I could go places and people will not
recognize me unless I say this is who I am.
And then they're like, whoa, like their minds will be blown
to. They're like, OK, like that's
wow. That means the taste of what I
get to go through all the time. It's it's a little frustrating
some. Oh, it's so, it's so fun.
But at the same token, I can go anywhere and essentially decide
(08:26):
who I want to be. I can control that.
It gives me control over that, whereas otherwise I wouldn't
have control. It would be decided for me.
And that is that's a powerful thing.
That's a powerful thing. And you're not the first person.
I've had other guys, big contentcreators who I've met and filmed
with and I won't say names of course, but they've said to me,
you're smart to have done this and I wish I would have done the
(08:49):
same. And I feel for them, really.
I do. And I get it, totally get it.
So I guess you know, if I, if I could say for anyone who's
starting out and they're considering or questioning it,
you can always break your anonymity later, but it's, it is
very difficult to go back. So right, don't do it yet.
If you're not sure, don't do it.If you're not sure, don't do it
(09:09):
watching. Yeah, When in doubt, don't.
You never know who's watching and you never know how it's
gonna the repercussions, where they're gonna come back in your
life. Like as a teenager when I first
started doing this, had you toldme that the anonymity, I would
have thought immediately that, oh, it'll affect me as far as
jobs are concerned, That's really is where I would have
stopped with it. I would have thought that it's
(09:30):
gonna affect limit the I'm nevergonna be a public servant.
I'm never gonna be, you know, then look at what we have public
serving now. So I would have never thought
that I would have been able to do something like that, but I
would have never anticipated that it would have impacted me
in the ways that it's, it's isolated me as far as events are
concerned and, and, and friendships and worrying about
who wants to be friends with me for what reason and that type of
(09:50):
thing. So the anonymity as far as that
goes, I would have never guessedthat that was the direction that
it would have headed in for, forme at the time.
And I don't necessarily think a lot of content creators are very
forward thinking with what this,what's this going to mean
tomorrow? And so I, I think that that
that's really impressive that you did, you did forward think
as far as that goes. That's, and you can and you can
always break your anonymity later.
(10:11):
It's hard to be said to get it back once it's gone.
So yeah, I want to switch gears a little bit and talk about the
Lesbro concept because I'm really mean.
I, I didn't, I didn't do any real homework on this for my
friends and I last night. I was like, what do you think it
means? What do you think it means?
What do you think it means? And so I have my own theories as
to what my, just my initial reaction is as the term and what
(10:31):
it, what it, what it means, whatit could mean.
That energy seems to be catchingon in the Internet.
What is it? What is being a Lesbro mean to
you? And why do you think it
resonates so strongly? Right.
I love the term. I coined the term because I had
this. I had these feelings where I was
like, I don't have a word for the way I feel about certain
sexual situations that I find myself in.
And it started because I've always identified as just a gay
(10:52):
bottom. I'm just a total bottom, which
is obvious. Like that's what I do.
I've got a giant hole and so andI like to have it filled, but
there was always a part of me that was like, I love eating a
trashed manhole. I just love it.
And, and I'm not a, I'm not a good top.
I just never have been a good top.
And I think that's, I don't wantto speak for every bottom, but I
(11:16):
think that's a common situation where they aren't a good top or
they're there or maybe they haveEd and so they stick with
bottoming and bottoming feels good too.
It's not like they're doing it because they've right now they
enjoy it. Obviously I enjoy bottoming, so
it wasn't like I felt like I wasmissing out on topping.
So I've always just identified as just a gay bottom.
But then as I've grown into doing more collaborative work, I
(11:37):
kept meting guys, meeting guys who not only wanted to work
inside of my hole, but they wanted me to work in their hole.
And I was like, Oh no, I can't do that.
I'm at bottom. I don't, I don't go inside of
other guys's holes. That's not what I think.
And then I realized I love eating manhole.
Why can't I actually fist it tooand enjoy it?
(11:59):
And why can't I just enjoy it and not even have to fuck it?
I don't have to stick my Dick init to actually enjoy it.
And then I was like, oh, I get it.
There's this thing that I can see now that was evolving for me
sexually. And it's not that I am only a
Lesbro. It is in certain circumstances
with certain people. It is Lesbro activity.
And what that is, is to you guysenjoying finding gratification
(12:22):
and exploring their pussies together with the exception like
without involving the Dick. Yeah.
And I mean, yeah, and, and they might like maybe they Jack off
while they're riding toys together maybe, or something
like that. But if, if it's penis and hole,
then that's not Lesbro. But if it's hole in hole and if
it's one guy just working one guy's hole, that's not Lesbro,
(12:45):
that's just that's the top and bottom 2 bottoms.
Coming together to work each other's butt holes.
Yes, yeah. And they enjoy that because
there's there's a physical and there's an emotional and there's
all kinds of pleasure and gratification with that without
even touching your cock. You don't have to necessarily be
in chastity either. It's just that the cock isn't
involved as a primary mechanism for bringing joy in the
(13:05):
situation, which is counterculture to what we're
used to as gay men because it's always, it's always about top or
bottom. And so when I thought about
that, I was like, it's what lesbians would do, I think.
And so that's what that's what the term lesbro came into my
head. I was like, that's what it is.
I got it. I'll be honest.
So when I, when I heard the termlast night and I clot and I
realized I'm like, Oh my God. OK, so I call that bottoming out
(13:27):
with my broad bottoming out withmy Bros or whatever.
I just always wanted the bro to come over and ride toys with me
and just sit on, sit on, just work each other's holes.
And so I've I've kind of turned that bottoming out.
That's what I've, I've, I've called it Lesbro is much more
fun and less negatively connotated term for that.
And so I, I, and I guessed it right.
I was when my friends and I weretalking about it last night, I
(13:47):
just kind of pulled the room. What do you guys think this
means? And, and I was right.
So I knew exactly where the, where, the where that was going.
And I, and I love it. I think the term is really
clever, I think, but. Thanks.
And and yeah, I think, you know,ever since I've kind of I've,
I've been saying the word and guys have been reaching out
like, oh, what does that mean? You know what they're like,
yeah, that's totally, that's exactly what I feel and want.
(14:09):
And so it's been catching on because I, you know, I'm not
unique in some of my fantasies and desires, of course.
So other guys I'm sure would relate and and sure enough,
they're like, that's the perfectterm for that feeling.
It is, it is. It's a bottoming out.
Sounds a bad thing to me. I wish I had a better term for
that, but Lesbro, it's so much more fun so.
It's so fun. It's so fun.
That's awesome. And one thing I noticed last
(14:31):
night when I was going through your feed, you've talked about
how you guys, guys are intimidated by the size of your
hole and that's, I get it. I relate to you so much because
that's happened to me so many times.
Guys are intimidated to fuck me.Oh, you like taking a full arm?
You're never going to like to take my Dick.
It's so annoying. It's it's so frail.
I know. And so and it's such a turn off
for me when they get back. I just don't deal with this.
(14:53):
So do you see that as part of a bigger conversation about
masculinity and fragility and sex?
Yeah, yeah, definitely fist things.
Thank goodness for social media because it's become so much
more. It's becoming so mainstream.
It has its own, it has its own stream, but it's becoming more
main, if that makes sense. It's still kind of kink and side
ish in the sense of like, it's still taboo, but not as taboo as
(15:14):
it used to be. And and I'm old enough to know
when it was really, really taboo.
Back then, it was not desirable to have a loose hole.
Everyone wanted a tight hole. In the 90s these men would go to
doctors to specialize and to tighten their asses up because
they had and too loose. Oh my God, so crazy.
Oh yeah, there's doctors who specialized and you could still
do that procedure, of course, but it's not like it wasn't the
(15:36):
night. The guys were like the tightest,
the sphincter, like you can't even get a Dick in there.
So tight. I know.
Who wants to fuck that? Oh my God.
And so when you didn't have that, you were definitely an
outcast. Like you were not acceptable,
like, and, and so anyway that that in itself is, is masculine
(15:58):
frailty, frail masculinity, you could say.
And so now that people are seeing the, the level and the
different types of joy and fun that can come from having a huge
hole because there's so much youcan do to it when it's big.
It's it's not only it's opened up people's worlds who are open
to it, like more people are getting into it, but it's
freaking out the vanilla people.I know.
(16:20):
It freaks them out and I think there's so much to be said.
Like you said, it's like, oh, they're not going to feel my
cock because that is again, that's their frail, that's their
frail little egos where fun. It makes their Dick seem bigger
if it's tight. So if the tight, the hole is
tight, the cock looks bigger. Shaving your your pubes makes
the Dick look bigger. We all know that.
(16:41):
And the tight hole does the samething when the hole is big.
I think these frail men can't cope with the fact that it makes
their Dick look smaller. You're so smart.
It's like, it's like they can't,they're like, it doesn't,
they're, they're like, it doesn't look like it's big.
So I can't do this. And so I think there's a lot of
reasons, but I think that's one of them.
I think that's one of the primary ones is it punctures or
(17:02):
frail egos. And the other thing is, is a lot
of guys get off on causing discomfort or pain because it
makes them think like, oh, my Dick is big.
It's so big that this bottom is uncomfortable.
And when they can't create that ego is punctured again, like
he's not going to be annihilatedby my little Dick.
So therefore why bother, you know?
(17:24):
And so then to punish the bottomby saying, oh, it's so big and
awful or whatever, because they're frail and, and their ego
can't handle it. So they lash out and make fun of
you or me or people like us because they're insecure.
That makes so much sense. I've not put a ton ton of I've
always just kind of brushed off guys that aren't into my hole.
(17:44):
I'm just whatever. Like I there's, there's plenty
of fish in the sea, but I mean to to really psychoanalyze it
and think about what the reasoning is behind that.
You're so right. And then when they do fuck me, I
I have sex with Dick sex oriented guys occasionally,
usually boyfriends, because that's the only time I ever
really want Dick sex is when I'mwith a boyfriend or something.
And it is, it is. It does seem there's a lot of
(18:06):
guys I've dated tend to not be les Bros.
They tend to be Dick sex oriented guys that in the
whatever, for whatever reason, I've only had one fisting
boyfriend. And and yeah, they it does seem
to always be about you like thatDick.
You like that Dick. Yeah, I do.
But I mean, you know, I do. But there's something else I
like too. So it is, it is a kind of double
edged, I don't want to say double edged sword because I
(18:26):
don't know, maybe it is a doubleedged sword, but.
Yeah, I mean, for me, it's I can.
This is what I tell them, which is hard for them to understand.
I know when they're that frail, but I love to accept when I'm
having Dick sex. I'm not in a Lesboro mindset
either, right? Because unless I said Lesboro is
not a term that describes my total sexual identity.
It's when certain circumstances are play.
(18:48):
I still like to get fucked and Istill want to take loads and get
I I love being inseminated. I love having a man sperm in my
asshole. I love that sensation.
And when a guy is frail, I tell them that because it might help,
because it's like. You know.
I don't actually push them a little bit.
Yeah. I said if you come inside me,
that's that's really fun and exciting and that feels good.
(19:10):
You know, it's like holding, holding a frail little teenage
boy's hand, saying it's OK, you can do this.
It's all right. Like it's.
Where the involved? Wherever the birth.
Yeah, well, certainly, certainlysexually in the sense of, I
mean, I'm not afraid. Have you noticed that there's a
shift in the kinds of guys that are willing to engage with you
(19:32):
now that you're so open about your body and preferences?
Is there is, I mean, have you noticed like a different type of
guy being interested in you or is it just a lack of?
So how often do you encounter that still a?
Type of guy being interested in me.
Or no, I mean, how often do you encounter like the kind that
kind of like frail masculinity anymore since you become.
Moving out all the time, It's constant.
OK, Yeah, yeah, it's constant and they're everywhere.
(19:52):
That that I would say is not even the Midwest thing, although
it's highly concentrated. I see that in cities too.
It's the the frail egos. There's no discrimination there
in the sense of. Where they come from?
Where they come from, they're everywhere.
That's so it is such. I mean, if you're anything like
me, it is a huge turn off for meto be around that and just I
don't want to even want to like engage anymore.
(20:14):
I'm like, OK, well, this was fun.
So as soon as they start, as soon as they luckily, you know,
with me, I usually get it in a scruff or grinder message first
where they're like, I don't think you'll I don't think I'm
you know, I don't think I'm experienced enough for you or I
don't think that I'm going to beable to satisfy you.
I'm just like, you know what, you're probably right.
So let's just keep the train rolling.
(20:34):
This means something. This this next set of questions
is about your your toy safety. Kind of you've been vocal about
that in the past and what types of toys you use as far as
materials are concerned and stuff.
We've seen a lot of myself included, and I don't want to
necessarily say mine was toy related because mine was shower
shot related, but still, it's hurdable.
You've posted about strong opinions about unsafe toy
(20:56):
practices. What are your biggest kind of
red flags when it comes to sex toy use and why do you think
that people continue to ignore that?
Because I do see a lot of guys still posting a full insertion
and after what happened with Rexand everything like that, I feel
there should be this movement towards safer practices and I
still see it on the Internet kind of periodically.
Where? So what do you think?
What are your biggest red flags when it comes to toy play?
(21:18):
Yeah, there's, I just tweeted about this couple weeks ago even
because even though I've said itbefore, like you said, people
still do these things. And so I feel like people with
some platform have the obligation to say things like
that so that there are remindersthat are constantly being
generated to remind people aboutthese things.
(21:39):
Because you might tweet it once,but in six months there will be
different people watching what'sgoing on and they may not have
seen it. So I think when you have some
power of platform, then you havealso some responsibility to lead
and set tones because you have the ability to do so.
And so to be careful with what you do set the tone with or
(21:59):
choosing the tone you set and the messages you convey because
it has impact, it has tangible impact.
So when I do that, which I'll doperiodically, and I've written
some, I have Pink National Treasure Books Part 1 and Part 2
on how to bottom, like bottomingtips essentially.
And it's there. They're on Amazon and I'm
thinking about writing a third one.
But in there I talk about these same safety things too, because
(22:21):
firstly, I get a lot of people reaching out like I'm sure you
do, wanting advice and tips and stuff.
And, and the number like the topfive questions I get are usually
focused around how to douche, how to take things that are
bigger, what kind of Lube, So those kind of things.
And so anyway, those red flags that are like absolute, I'm like
(22:44):
hard nose on And please, this isfrom my own experience and from
other people's experience that I've seen when they've had
disasters happen. Like, these are the surest
things you can stay away from tohelp yourself stay safer and
have more fun and have longevityin what we're doing because I've
been doing this for 20 years. Yeah, me too.
(23:05):
Yeah, I've only been filming andcreating content since 2019, so
just six years. And so from my own experience of
20 years, plus the combined experience and knowledge of
other people I've worked with, pointy, pointy toys I think are
dangerous. If they've got even silicone
ones that are soft points, they can very much more easily
(23:27):
puncture when inserted. So avoid pointy toes.
Pointy toes. Avoid them.
Right back. Exactly.
Avoid those suggests. Some people like them.
Whatever. Avoid firm toys.
There's this, there's this, there's this idea I think that
we get in our head, especially when we're new to anal exploring
that if it's really hard, it's going to make me grow faster,
(23:49):
it's going to stretch me faster.I'm going to get better results
faster. Totally not true.
In fact, it's the opposite. You're going to be strained,
you're going to be, you're goingto be constricted more because
it's more painful and your growth is actually going to slow
down. If you have a softer toy, your
body muscles are going to relax around it more, it's going to
mold around you more, it's goingto be more pleasurable, you're
(24:09):
going to experience growth a little more faster.
And there's not, that's the thing that you said about
pleasure is there's not an increased amount of it's, it's
just pleasure period. It's not, there's an increased
amount of, there's this misconception that the bigger
you go, the more satisfied you'll be.
And I, I don't necessarily thinkthat that's been, this hasn't
been the case for me. I mean, I mean, I still get off
on one finger in my butt. So if it's done correctly, it's
(24:32):
done correctly, and if it's doneincorrectly or not, a full arm
can feel like a nightmare. So.
Yeah, it's so, so those are some, some of my.
So those are a couple of red flags.
Other ones like refrigerating your Lube, don't mix your Lube
and leave it out at room temperature because bacteria
will grow in it. And then as soon as you're
you've used it once, get rid of it, dump it and make a new
batch. Don't keep it in because you'll
(24:53):
get bacterial infections. You can get yeast infections,
you can get yeast buildup in your body, which I've
experienced and it's a bitch to get rid of.
Yeah. So there's that's an absolute
red flag when I see that. Also, let's see.
Don't mix drugs with playing. Just do not do it.
It's a recipe for disaster. It blocks your ability to
(25:17):
process, to feel, to comprehend,to analyze, to to discern from
what is pleasurable and what's too much, and it also inhibits
what you might do otherwise. During the more dangerous
activity over I know that for me, I mean, there's I have had
(25:38):
my most reckless behavior has always been under the influence
period. And so, and I've never been shy
about the fact that I have struggled with sobriety and
I've, you know, struggles with sobriety.
And so there's a reason if I filmed a a video where I put a
guy's foot in my ass to the kneealmost and I was out of my mind
(26:00):
and I would never do that sober and reality again.
And so there's a reason that I've never posted that video on
the Internet because I'm so inebriated and I know better
than to put there's a there are videos of me sober taking
there's why. I mean, I would never have gone
as extreme as I did where the guy was like, now stand up and
I'm like, OK. And so that was just, it was so
(26:20):
stupid. And and and I reflect on that
now. What were you thinking?
You could have died. And that's not a decision that I
would have made. I wouldn't have done half of
what I did had I been sober. And so I think that people don't
even, there's not enough of a conversation about that part of
it. Drugs are bad, yes, but drugs
are bad because you do dumb shiton them.
And you do. Yeah, so, so here's the thing
(26:42):
too, that there's a physio biological aspect to it that is
science based. So the basic premise of toy
insertion and fisting you as thethe receiving end of this, you
can't see what's actually happening inside your body.
You can barely see even the angles because the person or the
toy is inserting into your eyes are not at your asshole.
(27:02):
So that means, and if you continue to do toy play and
fisting itself, what's going to happen if you continue to do it,
your senses will become heightened, at least might have
my hearing, my ability to feel is so off the charts.
It's so elevated because the body is adapting because it
can't see what's happening inside.
So when there's a toy in me, even when I'm douching, I can
(27:24):
feel water in there. I can see what's happening
inside of my body by feeling. And when you use a substance
that inhibits you cut that communication off for yourself.
And it's, it's, it's so it's a biophysiological, it's a real
thing. And it's not just hyperbole
saying, you know, don't use drugs.
It's a real thing. And so, and I mean it.
And I have guys and I invite up here, I love my place in upstate
(27:48):
because it's, it's, it's a it's a retreat in a other ways.
Like guys who come up will come up for a weekend usually and
will film, of course, but we'll go on hiking, we'll go to great
restaurants. And I have forests and creeks
and all this beautiful abundance.
And so it's a it's a it's an escape for them.
Yeah, definitely, of course. Absolutely.
You should. Yeah, you definitely should.
(28:09):
And so when they're here, I have, when we're in
conversations about coming, I always set my boundaries and I
say there's no drug use. I have a sober property, so no
drinking, no drugging on the property.
And if they're here for just a day visit, don't show up high
because I will turn you away. I will have you go away.
And so, and even though I'm not intoxicated or high, I don't
(28:32):
want them either for the same reason, because they are then
feeling inside of me with their arm.
They're seeing inside of me withtheir arm.
They can't see inside with theireyes.
So they're feeling around in there.
And if they're inhibited, they could do damage.
And so even if there's somethinglike Adderall and Red Bull, some
guys will like to vape or they'll maybe do a little edible
(28:53):
and that's fine. I'm fine with that because they
don't get so erratic and crazy. That seems to be manageable for
if that changes, I'll change my boundary.
But the point is, is even someone who takes an Adderall
and a Red Bull, if they start this kind of kind of jittery and
I'm like, you know, and it's crazy because even this I had, I
had a encounter recently where the guy, he wasn't on anything,
(29:13):
but he had to take like in a RedBull.
And he was so strung out from the caffeine.
Oh my God, that yeah, that he was going from zero to 100 in
between things. He would be like really slow
fisting. And then all of a sudden I
believe I'm like, no, this you're not.
You're not listening to yourselfor to me.
Yeah, that communication is completely inhibited.
And that's dangerous. It's not only not fun, but it's
(29:34):
dangerous. Yeah, I know when when guys do
that, when they have, when, you know, when they're, it's an
unpredictable kind of fisting that's so frustrating.
It's like I like to feel the rhythm with them.
And if as long as we're on the same page, as long as we're on
the same rhythm and it works. But when you know, I'm expecting
it to be one page, 1 speed, one tempo, and then all of a sudden
it's there's an exclamation point randomly inserted in the
(29:56):
middle of the sentence. I'm like, and then it takes me a
minute to kind of get and then my trust is broken with them.
Yeah, yeah, get my, my, my bearings again.
Yeah, and I'm very vocal, I'm very verbal about saying what I
is feeling good and what needs to slow down, which is important
communications key. I think that a lot of times when
we're new, we're afraid to make the person that we're playing
with feel like we're being too demanding or something or
(30:18):
something. But it's like you can't be
afraid of communicating in thesesituations.
It's really important. And I guess I'll say one other
red flag for toys stuff, by the way, is baseless toys, as we
know, Stop putting toys in you that are baseless that you can't
easily take out. It's so dangerous.
It's not worth it. There's other things that are
satisfying that you can put inside of you that have a base
(30:39):
and stop putting things in therethat are not designed to be put
in there. Glass bottles, like shit like
that. Like please, we've all seen.
Glass ass. I feel like we've all seen that
video. Please don't do these things.
It is not worth it. I think that there is a
temptation to get likes and views in the world that we live
in and to create a viral video by doing something risky.
(31:00):
And there are other ways to create viral videos than
completely traumatizing yourselfthat way.
Yeah. And I will say that as somebody
who has gone through this traumaof hurting yourself and kind of,
I mean, I'm not on the other side yet.
I don't have my reconnection surgery yet for a couple more
weeks. But it's it's not worth it
because you don't, you don't realize a good thing until it's
gone. And so.
(31:21):
Oh my God. You know, it's I miss my
prolapse. I'm not going to lie.
It's still have a little one, but it's it's gone now.
It's not what it was. And so that's been huge learning
experience for me, like what my body can do again now that I've
been injured. And I don't wish that really on
anybody any fisting bottom. It's it's not fun and so.
(31:42):
What? This is kind of interesting.
I, I, I really, because I'm 100%on board with you on this next,
next, next bit vocal about beinganti pay-per-view and keeping
things accessible, you know, andso I have recently gotten myself
and not, not that I put my foot in my mouth because I didn't, I
just called out another content creator for bait switching.
(32:03):
I signed up for their page. It was $15.00 a month, which I'm
fine with. I have no problem supporting
creators. But then it was like they're 50
watch the video that I wanted towatch.
And I was like, fuck, bro, this is there was no disclosure
anywhere that this was a pay-per-view video.
And, and that really frustrated me as a consumer.
And so, and I've never done, I've offered pay-per-view videos
in conjunction with the same dayrelease or early release of a
(32:23):
video, but I've always made my videos part of the subscription
package. So how did you decide that
that's the route that you wantedto go?
And what is it done for you as far as your connection with your
fans is concerned? And they appreciated that kind
of model. What do you have to What are
your thoughts on general pay-per-view and in general?
Yeah, I mean, I would say that my my fan base and subscriber
(32:43):
base are very loyal and I I respect them so much for for
that loyalty. I would never do anything a scam
a quick buck from someone, let alone someone who's loyal.
I would never fuck over someone in general to make a quick buck
and I would never do it to people that are devoutly loyal
(33:04):
to me. To me, this is so disgusting to
set people up like that. And, and this industry is full
of that. I mean, we're, we're not shy and
short of gay baiters and people who are straight who are just
posting boner shots and calling it something else and getting
subscriptions and hustling. No, our industry is full of
that. And you know, it's gives it
(33:26):
gives this industry a bad name. It really does.
But frustrating as a consumer, it's frustrating.
Yeah. It's it's, it's a little, it's
just annoying because you know, you think you're going in for
one thing and then to have a completely other happen.
It's back, you know, it's. It's so dumb to me.
It's so unintelligible as someone who's producing a
product, because this is a product.
You're giving a product. I'm making a product.
(33:47):
I want that product to be good. I want it to be a good product
and you want people. To consume it.
Yeah, I I genuinely, actually enjoy making it and I want the
person to genuinely enjoy consuming it.
I there's nothing in my equationthat derives joy from from
scamming people. I just don't, I don't think that
(34:07):
way. I'll live that way.
It's abhorrent to me. I know that.
I know that some people do the pay-per-view thing like you're
talking about. One thing for me, I hate having
to do extra work. I hate having to do extra work.
I like making a good product andI like to put it out there and
not have to really think about it.
And for me to have like, oh, which video is a peep review?
(34:29):
One, which one is it have to like, man, I'm like, that's just
more management. I don't want to do that.
So there's that aspect of it. And two, yeah, I want someone to
enjoy my product and know that they are.
I want them to feel like they'regetting a good deal or good
value for what I'm giving because again, their joy is it
is. It's paramount to me.
And I think that maybe that maybe have to do with my
(34:50):
exhibitionist tendencies becausebefore I started doing this
content creation 2018, I would still film my encounters because
I love watching myself get turned up.
Yeah, I get so turned on and turned like I'll even, I will,
I'll even not have sex just because less I can film it
because I'm like, I want to watch it afterward because I'm
(35:12):
such I'm such a voyeur and an exhibitionist, sure.
And I love that people get theirjollies off watching me.
I love it. There's a little bit of a
there's a little fine lines after walk where you become like
a more like a little addicted tothe attention and the but as
long as you kind of keep that incheck and and and still are
enjoying it for yourself, I feelit's a it's still a healthy.
(35:33):
That's the most important thing.If for anyone who's going into
this, I don't do anything that isn't something I'm going to
enjoy. That's not fun.
I don't do anything unless I really want to actually do it,
and that's a powerful thing. And I don't real.
I didn't realize how many peoplearen't in that mindset when
they're doing this and it shows in their work.
It really does show. And that's one thing I think
(35:54):
about fisting, too, is I think that sometimes fisting is
becoming a bucket list or checklist item that guys are
doing just for the sake of having a fisting video on their
page. And that's not fairly, I don't
think, a positive thing. It's, yeah, cool fisting is
getting more visibility, but it's bad fisting.
It's not really done right. Yeah, half assedly.
And so not, not done with the care and respect that I think
that it deserves. So as long as long as there's
(36:16):
somebody in the room that knows what they're doing, like they
pretty much only film with, I mean, when guys come to me that
they want to, they don't have a single fisting video on their
page. I mean, for me, the connections
that I make for content have to be real connections.
They have to be, they have to. Otherwise it just feels like
porn. It just doesn't feel I'm cooking
up for fun and for the, for the,for the, you know, it doesn't
(36:36):
feel fun. Period.
Yeah, and, and, and I'm definitely all about consent.
Not, not for the sake of like, oh, I should get, I got to ask
this person consent. I, I don't like to have someone
here, you know, they're in a different space.
You know, they've come as a guest and I don't want them to
feel like they have to kiss me or cuddle me.
I have a guest room. So they're welcome to have their
(36:58):
own bed so that they don't have to feel obligated to sleep next
to me because there's all kinds of levels of intimacy.
And they may not want that leveland I may not want that level of
intimacy with them, but I may want to fist with them still.
I may want to do all those. I may want to play toys with
them because there's all these things we could or cannot do.
And so I usually don't even, I don't assume anything.
(37:19):
And then and then I'll ask like,Hey, can you, do you want to,
are you interested in, in tryingthis out?
Like, do you want to try puttingthis in my ass and this in your
ass at the same time? Are you OK with that?
And if they're not, then it's OK.
Like if you get a no, you can still actually have fun.
It doesn't mean in the world. And that takes a level of
maturity. And I think some people
sometimes struggle with with theaspect of consent.
(37:41):
They're afraid of being turned down or rejected at something.
It it's really great because youyou chisel out the experience
together and the other person responds well, really well to be
that's. All it's really about is the
experience and, and when it's a good experience, when it's
caught correctly on camera, people resonate with that.
(38:01):
People recognize, you know. Yeah, you can tell.
I can tell. I've I've been in situations,
circumstances where I'm like, I'm not really enjoying this
anymore now and it shows. It's very clear.
And I remember I had I had one guy here, he he was directing me
a little bit and he's like, you know, OK, when I'm doing this,
you know, make do this and make this now.
And I was like, you know, actually if you just have fun
with this, I'll have fun too. And we won't actually have to
(38:24):
act like we can actually, just actually enjoy this.
Unless this is something you're not actually enjoying doing,
then that's a different story altogether, you know, right?
That's sort of segues into into the difference between shock
value and genuine pleasure. And so do you think that there
is a difference between creatingcontent?
I mean, I, if you're anything like me, I don't care.
I don't create content for the purpose of shock value, but our
(38:45):
video can tend to be shocking. When I was watching, I was
clicking through your page and I'm I'm so impressed by what
you're able to do. It's so wild and there's so few
of us that can do that type of extreme play and but you're
still, you can tell that there'sgenuine pleasure happening
there. So is there a difference between
shock value and and pleasure foryou?
Or do you even consider that when you're making videos or?
(39:07):
No, no, I don't necessarily set out to try to make something
shocking because the nature of further exploration tends to be
shocking. So.
And what I mean by that is by continually experimenting with
new ideas, mostly to keep thingsfun and exciting for myself and
my loyal viewers who maybe want to see something different.
(39:28):
It could just be different angles or different toys, you
know, mixing things up, keeping it fresh really is rooted in
keeping this fresh and exciting and fun for me too.
And so from that sometimes comesa very exciting thing or a
shocking moment sometimes. But the motivation underneath of
it is what's most important, which is how do I keep this
(39:48):
funding fresh for myself and forothers?
That's the real motivator. The shock comes potentially
afterward. Maybe.
You know, totally, I totally getthat.
And that's I'll tell you that this I've been doing content for
20 years, almost since I was 18 years old and I was working for
Raging Stallion back in 2007. And I will say that this show is
my way of keeping content fresh for me because I was getting so
(40:11):
burned out of just always getting fisted every like I was
just editing, editing, editing same videos over and over and
over again that I needed to do something different that was
more engaging for me, a creativeoutlet.
And so that's. This has been my direction as
far as course correction as far as keeping things fresh for
myself, because now I still do the fisting videos and
everything. I've been spending way more
creative energy and creative expression on on these these
(40:32):
interviews and editing these andthese feel more validating for
me than they than it did for me to create content forever.
And so this has been a cool, cool exercise in.
These are great. I, I would love to do more stuff
like this to myself. I actually, I wish World of
Wonder would get in touch because I've got, I got a roster
of ideas of the things that we could be doing with this
community. And and still, even with
(40:54):
anonymity, even they need to be reaching out because if they
need programming, I've got I've got ideas.
I got ideas. It would be super fun.
Oh my God, it'd be so much fun. Yeah, these have been so great.
I mean, like it was started off just kind of let me talking to
the camera and then I was like, let me start interviewing people
and then it's now let's turn into kind of profiles on like
manizing other adult content creators and it's.
Yeah. It's so much, it's so that's
that's so important to me because I felt just a hole for
(41:16):
so long. And so it's really important to
me to put a face to these, you know, not, not even a face or
mask to these holes and be OK. There's actually relevant
stories here to be told and we have thoughts and and they're
intelligent and this is a good you know, it's turned into
something really kind of cool that I've last couple episodes
I've been really super excited about the guests and I'm really
(41:38):
excited to have you. It's been really exciting.
So talking about anonymity again, do you find it?
I guess sort of you've sort of already answered this, but you
don't really you haven't really had struggles with maybe you
have, but I'm just being presumptuous, but juggling an
online presence and your anonymity in in the real world.
Have you had anybody that's likeif you found out European
(41:58):
national treasure and then I know that I've had guys that
have found out that I'm hunger FF after the fact and then
they've lost interest in dating wise or whatever.
Has the has the big online presence ever impacted your your
dating life or your social life or anything?
Yeah, Well, I guess let me thinkin a way.
I mean, not the, this persona, not necessarily because most
(42:19):
people don't, if they're, if they're outside of this world
and Twitter and the community that we're wrapped in, if they
don't know who I am from knowingme, who I am through that Ave.
they usually don't know who I am.
Meaning I'm just, I'm just my regular person doing my other
things. And so I don't share this world
with them unless I feel like they're equipped mentally to, to
(42:42):
cope with it. And so and I, I love being able
to compartmentalize my life likethat.
It gives me so much power and, and so those who want to date me
who already know me, there's usually, you know, there's no
issue there, of course, because they already know this about me.
Now, if I attempt to date someone outside of our world,
(43:02):
outside of the content creator world, essentially, and in my
regular life, you could say I, Iusually don't even really try.
I don't, I'm not much. I'm not a traditionalist in the
sense of types of relationships and dating even anymore.
And that's not, that's not anything that's been long term.
That's more of a newer kind of revelation the last couple years
where I don't identify with heteronormative values really at
(43:27):
all. And that's taken a lot of
introspective work to see like, and I wish more people would do
in the sense of when they see something that is cast upon them
as like, this is what you shouldbe living like doing, question
it and say that might work for them.
Is it actually genuine to what Iwant in life?
Is that something that resonatesfor me?
(43:48):
Is that really who I am? Or am I just being told what I
should be doing? And through that type of
introspection, I have determinedthat much of what I see is not
for me. Like I really don't want to
have. I don't really have any desire
for that. I don't want kids.
I don't want to marry someone and and live in a in a house
even with them. Like I don't see that for
(44:10):
myself. I see myself loving and being in
all kinds of relationships with different levels of intimacy.
I see myself being in loving relationships with fisters and
non fisters and I see myself traveling with people who I'm
not sexual with, but we have a beautiful friendship maybe.
And I don't have any desire to navigate the direction and where
(44:34):
they go. And I think that's the shift is
I used to be, I used to need to come to say this is what we're
going to do. You and I are going to marry,
we're going to date, we're goingto this.
And I really step away. The more I see that coming at
me, I'm like this. Is giving me ethical flood
vibes, yeah. It's hard to wear.
(44:54):
Yeah. Yeah, I totally know that book.
Yeah. And and when I read that book
some 15 years ago, I didn't it didn't really resonate, resonate
with me. And so this is more born of my
own experience of like, what hasfailed and what has worked kind
of thing. And getting back to your
original question, when I've dated people who are not in this
world and I've let them peek into it, you know, they are
(45:16):
very, of course, judgmental. They're they're scared of it.
They're one guy even said he's like, what am I going to tell my
parents? I was like, why do you have to
tell them? Why would they even have to
know? Like that's such a bizarre thing
to say. Talk about being in different
worlds entirely. OK, we're not in the same, same
world at all. So I so I would say it's not a
(45:37):
problem because I'm really not interested in, I think a
traditional sense of things. That's great.
That's amazing. I mean, really.
Lovely. Yeah, I've had, I've had a
couple of instances where guys have not who've lost interest in
me because of hunger FF and thenand in reality, I don't really
necessarily want them in my lifeanyways.
(45:57):
If they're going to, it's a partof, it's a part of me.
It's not all of me. And so, but I've been doing a
lot of work recently to differentiate the two parts of
me, the parts that are content creators and the parts that
aren't. And so if you can't take the
good, then you don't. You can't can't take the bad,
the bad, then you can't handle the good either.
I was going to ask, looking ahead, what's next for you?
Do you have any projects or collaborations or anything that
(46:18):
you've got in the books that you're looking forward to?
Or where can people find more ofyou on on the Internet?
I have all, I always have more ideas.
It's one of my things is I burstinside with ideas and things
that I want to do. And as any human is limited by
time of day, there's only so many hours in the day, right?
And right now, the last couple years I've been renovating,
(46:40):
renovating this house, which is a massive undertaking.
And I'm almost done. So think, bless the guys who
have come up to visit me becauseit's really been so much fun.
And I, I, I love hosting, I loveplaying Hostess actually.
But it's been really great to not have to travel so much so I
can focus my resources on renovating the house.
But once the house is done, which is hopefully actually by
(47:01):
the end of the summer, I'm goingto, I want to travel a lot more,
which means more people that I want to have sex with with and
play with and create content with.
There's so many people that I have not yet played with that
I'm dying to yes, you're yes, you're one of them.
And I'm like, God, I have to getout.
And I've been really, I've been such a good boy.
I've been so disciplined becauseI'm like, just finished the
house because of I delay it. It's never going to be done.
(47:23):
Like if I just, I got to push through, I'm just going to stay
focused and I'm almost there. So look forward to more travel
in future, which means more super fun collaborations,
hopefully even some more wild outdoor and public stuff that
the places I travel to will afford.
Maybe I want to go on a cruise and do something completely
(47:45):
crazy on a gay cruise, which is actually which is what I bought
this outfit for. I'm going to show you this
outfit. It's a gold chain jock, but it's
got a gold thong that the thong comes out.
So I could take loads in this. I could get fisted in it.
I could walk around. Kind of amazing.
It's kind of amazing. It's giving me a little bit of
Princess Leia, but like also, I love it.
It's so hot. I had it, I had it made because
(48:06):
I was like, I want to go on a cruise.
I don't know when even I don't have tickets for a cruise yet,
but I know I'm going to go on one.
And so I had it made for that. So I can make an event out of
that. So yeah.
But so there's going to be there's going to be so much more
happening, I think. And again, like I said with
World of Wonder, get in touch because has got lots of ideas
(48:27):
and there is a world of opportunity for all the budding
and blossoming queerlings that are coming up because the world
will always produce more gay people who need to and want to
learn about this stuff. And we need safe role models
like ourselves to say, don't do this.
We do not recommend this and then provide an Ave. for more
(48:48):
people to see what we're doing to learn from us.
I hope that that's in the futuremore and of course,
responsibility. Exactly.
And I'm exclusive on Just for Fans, so I just keep it simple.
I just post my content on Just for Fans of Pink National
Treasures. So that's where they can always
find my full content is there. It's so nice and easy to have
that. Such a great I'm actually
Dominic Ford's going to come on the show soon.
(49:10):
Oh. Awesome.
Yeah, I'm really excited becausetalk about kink friendly
platform and stuff like that, what it takes to run 1 and he's
excited. To me, yeah, I, I, I've been
wanting to do their get together, their annual events.
I again, I've been limiting my travel on purpose to just focus
on getting the house done. But that's one thing I'm going
to do also when I'm freed up is do some more of the Just for
(49:30):
Fans events because they have somuch fun together.
I think it would be so much fun.I went to the one in Vegas in
2020 right before COVID and it was like so insane.
It was so fun. I had such a good time.
Like people, big event that I went to.
Yeah, yeah. So many cool.
There's so many great creators that I have yet to meet and play
with and I've just so much to doand fun.
(49:53):
So much fun to have still. So many to do.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Thank you, Pink National Treasure.
Thank you so much for coming on the show.
I really appreciate. Thank you for having me.
Yeah, This was this. This happened yesterday, right?
Didn't I just ask you yesterday to do this or was it the day
before? I think so.
It was. I love how fast this happened.
It's still organic, so fast. And I'm just really grateful for
your time and you guys, if you guys are enjoying the show, we
(50:16):
are on Apple Podcasts, Amazon slash Audible, YouTube and
Spotify. New video episodes go live on
hungerff.com. And just for fans slash hunger
FF 8:00 on Friday nights. Video episodes are available
early on Spotify to subscribers only.
As soon as I'm done editing themagain one final time.
Thank you so much, Pink Nationaltreasure.
You've been a great and you've been a treasure.
(50:37):
Thank you so much. And I look forward to yeah.
And I look forward to seeing youguys again next week.
Have a good one. Good night, thanks for going
deep with me on Hunger FF Presents Prolapse.
If you're loving the ride, hit subscribe, drop a review, and
share the fisting love. Follow me on social media at
Hunger FF for unfiltered updatesand exclusive content.
But until next time, keep it raw, real, and always hungry.
I'll see you on the next episode.
Welcome to Brolapse, the fistingpodcast that goes deep explore
my life, views and raw, unfiltered conversations with
the creators that are redefiningkink connection in the fisting
community. Hey, you guys, welcome back.
We're for another episode of Brolapse and this week I'm very
excited and we have somebody that's I've been watching for a
while and who's gone through an evolution since the in the last
(00:20):
couple years. Pink national Treasure is on the
show today. Go ahead and introduce yourself.
Hey, hey, hey. I'm Pink National Treasure
handle is shortened for PN Treasures.
EN yeah, PN Treasures. But that's me.
That's who I am. It's amazing.
I love all of it. If there's anybody that knows
about being extra and I'm being on brand, it's it's me.
(00:41):
So I appreciate all of the I appreciate all of it.
So I'm really excited to have you on today.
I have a bunch of questions thisand you made me feel a little
bit of an old man last night when we were talking.
And because I didn't, I've neverheard the term Lesborough before
and I'm really excited to learn about this and kind of just pick
your brain a little bit about what what the culture is and
everything like that. So.
(01:02):
Yeah. Let's start, I guess, a little
bit first with your identity andanonymity as far as like your,
your performer side goes. So you built this unapologetic
brand that also holds on to anonymity, which I think is
really impressive. So how has protecting your
identity impacted your freedom as a performer and a creator?
There's there's a few things around identity and anonymity
(01:22):
that that your question brings up.
A few things in my mind actually, I think are really
important and I didn't realize they were important or how
important they were until I've gotten this far into doing this
and how how lovely anonymity hasbeen because.
And there's like, there's probably 5 good reasons, 5
strong reasons. And I feel like just with
(01:44):
anything, there's never really one reason that we do something.
There's usually multiple reasonswhy we decide to take an action
or choose something. And I think one of the first
ones is safety. I think that many of us are in
denial about what this country really is, what it's really like
to live in this country. I think that those performers
who are privileged to live in a very accepting zone of this
(02:07):
country, maybe the larger citieswhich I've lived in, and now I
live upstate New York. So I'm not, I'm not far from New
York City, but I've lived in LA and San Francisco and I lived in
New York City Kins and I've I'm from the Midwest, essentially.
I'm from the Bible Belt. I grew up there.
So I've seen the best with this country can offer.
And I've seen the absolute worst.
And I've had a gun held to my head and I've had death threats
(02:31):
written to me for being open, just being gay.
The gun situation, it was, you would think you have safe
spaces. Sometimes you really do.
I was, I was at my sister's house just relaxing.
I wasn't out and about. This is in the Midwest.
I wasn't hitting on someone thatI shouldn't be hitting on.
(02:52):
I I wasn't offending anybody other than simply existing.
And my brother in law's brother,he just walked in and he put a
gun to my head and I don't know what he said because I kind of
went into shock and I don't remember auditory things just
shut off and I don't even remember how long he was there.
And then he left. So you know the.
Trauma, the trauma that that hadto have impacted on you that.
(03:14):
It's horrendous. I'm still working through it,
but that's that's not a unique situation.
It's actually that this extreme culture that back in the 90s was
bad and in the 80s was bad, it has just gotten worse.
And so I think we're in denial about that.
(03:35):
I think as a the gay community, I would say just, I'm very
general generalizing here. And there are many who are very
aware of it. And I think there are some that
I've met who are completely unaware of it.
And I say that as A, to set the table to in, in, in the way of
the, the pushback I've gotten from some creators who are
(03:57):
bigger names who won't create orfilm with me because they don't
like masks. They don't like to have someone
hiding their identity, which I can understand.
But those people 100% of the time, they live in these very
open, accepting places. And they, I don't think they
quite understand the gravity andseverity that some of us have
experienced or can face now. That's that's one thing now we
(04:21):
live in authoritarian country now, there's no question about
that. And it's not debatable, though
some people might try to. It's not up for debate.
And there are now even more things being done to target
people who create porn, for example, or content creators.
So that is added now another layer of why I'm grateful for my
anonymity. So those are the two, those are
(04:44):
the two kind of more really immediate safety danger things
that are kind of tied to why forme, I've chosen to have
anonymity around what I do. Now there's other things too
that play into it that have beenreally lovely that I kind of
mentioned earlier. And one of them is anonymity
cannot be purchased. So once you lose it, you can't
(05:07):
pay someone to not know who you are.
You can't erase something from someone's mind like that.
You can try, you can certainly scrub the Internet, but once you
lose it, it's difficult to get it back.
And no amount of money. And I say that because people
with money, a lot of money, that's the one thing that they
really hold on to really tightlybecause they know that once it's
(05:28):
gone, you can't get it back. And having experienced that now
in circumstances, I'm glad I'm in a circumstance right now
where this could have compromised another part of what
I want to do in my life. And it has been really lovely
not to have to worry about it. That's it, Not to have to
consider it. And I also, in that same vein,
find so much pleasure and value in having this not be my entire
(05:51):
persona because there are so many other things I enjoy doing.
Sex is just one thing in my lifethat is big and over the top.
There's other things I do in my life that are creative endeavors
that I love so much, and the narrow mindedness of the general
public could not accept the intersection of both.
That just wouldn't happen So, and I'm not out there to try to
(06:13):
change that. At least not today.
Maybe one day, I don't know, butI wouldn't say that's not what
I'm up for my. Experience has been I am
essentially the, the, the faith to your Buffy in this situation.
I, I've been on the Internet selling my face since I was a
teenager and I, there are thingsthat I've had to give up that
I've had to lose or that I have lost or maybe not gotten to
(06:35):
enjoy fully. Because the fact that everyone
knows who I am and it's, it's a difficult road to walk because I
try to go to events and I can't just go as Ryan James anymore.
No matter what I am hunger FF nomatter where I go, what bar I go
to, what event I go to, even if I just want to casually enjoy
it, I can't. That's a trade off that I've
(06:55):
made over the years and one thatI question on a regular basis
whether or not it was the right decision or not.
Because I, I wish a lot of timesI could go back and do things a
little differently. And then when I first started
hunger FFI wasn't showing my face and then I, I made a
decision to do it. And then it was just kind of
like it snowballed from there. And now I don't have any
anonymity anymore. And so I, I'm envious of the
(07:18):
ability that you have had to walk that that tightrope and
then still be able to, because I'm sure, I'm sure you can go to
events and maybe not everybody until you say you're handled,
people aren't necessarily going to know who you are right away.
Am I? Am I right?
Totally true and other funny thing about it is my face
doesn't match my body when people meet me when people meet
me. If I film with someone other
content creators and they see myface, sometimes I'll send them a
(07:41):
photo of my face beforehand so they're they know what I look
like, but sometimes they don't. And and they always are like if
the face does not match the bodyat all, like, and I get it
totally is like, and it's intentional like that.
I like I said, I like having this totally different look and
feel and vibe and energy outsideof what I do sexually too.
(08:02):
And it's so liberating and freeing to have the separation.
And like you said, I could go places and people will not
recognize me unless I say this is who I am.
And then they're like, whoa, like their minds will be blown
to. They're like, OK, like that's
wow. That means the taste of what I
get to go through all the time. It's it's a little frustrating
some. Oh, it's so, it's so fun.
But at the same token, I can go anywhere and essentially decide
(08:26):
who I want to be. I can control that.
It gives me control over that, whereas otherwise I wouldn't
have control. It would be decided for me.
And that is that's a powerful thing.
That's a powerful thing. And you're not the first person.
I've had other guys, big contentcreators who I've met and filmed
with and I won't say names of course, but they've said to me,
you're smart to have done this and I wish I would have done the
(08:49):
same. And I feel for them, really.
I do. And I get it, totally get it.
So I guess you know, if I, if I could say for anyone who's
starting out and they're considering or questioning it,
you can always break your anonymity later, but it's, it is
very difficult to go back. So right, don't do it yet.
If you're not sure, don't do it.If you're not sure, don't do it
(09:09):
watching. Yeah, When in doubt, don't.
You never know who's watching and you never know how it's
gonna the repercussions, where they're gonna come back in your
life. Like as a teenager when I first
started doing this, had you toldme that the anonymity, I would
have thought immediately that, oh, it'll affect me as far as
jobs are concerned, That's really is where I would have
stopped with it. I would have thought that it's
(09:30):
gonna affect limit the I'm nevergonna be a public servant.
I'm never gonna be, you know, then look at what we have public
serving now. So I would have never thought
that I would have been able to do something like that, but I
would have never anticipated that it would have impacted me
in the ways that it's, it's isolated me as far as events are
concerned and, and, and friendships and worrying about
who wants to be friends with me for what reason and that type of
(09:50):
thing. So the anonymity as far as that
goes, I would have never guessedthat that was the direction that
it would have headed in for, forme at the time.
And I don't necessarily think a lot of content creators are very
forward thinking with what this,what's this going to mean
tomorrow? And so I, I think that that
that's really impressive that you did, you did forward think
as far as that goes. That's, and you can and you can
always break your anonymity later.
(10:11):
It's hard to be said to get it back once it's gone.
So yeah, I want to switch gears a little bit and talk about the
Lesbro concept because I'm really mean.
I, I didn't, I didn't do any real homework on this for my
friends and I last night. I was like, what do you think it
means? What do you think it means?
What do you think it means? And so I have my own theories as
to what my, just my initial reaction is as the term and what
(10:31):
it, what it, what it means, whatit could mean.
That energy seems to be catchingon in the Internet.
What is it? What is being a Lesbro mean to
you? And why do you think it
resonates so strongly? Right.
I love the term. I coined the term because I had
this. I had these feelings where I was
like, I don't have a word for the way I feel about certain
sexual situations that I find myself in.
And it started because I've always identified as just a gay
(10:52):
bottom. I'm just a total bottom, which
is obvious. Like that's what I do.
I've got a giant hole and so andI like to have it filled, but
there was always a part of me that was like, I love eating a
trashed manhole. I just love it.
And, and I'm not a, I'm not a good top.
I just never have been a good top.
And I think that's, I don't wantto speak for every bottom, but I
(11:16):
think that's a common situation where they aren't a good top or
they're there or maybe they haveEd and so they stick with
bottoming and bottoming feels good too.
It's not like they're doing it because they've right now they
enjoy it. Obviously I enjoy bottoming, so
it wasn't like I felt like I wasmissing out on topping.
So I've always just identified as just a gay bottom.
But then as I've grown into doing more collaborative work, I
(11:37):
kept meting guys, meeting guys who not only wanted to work
inside of my hole, but they wanted me to work in their hole.
And I was like, Oh no, I can't do that.
I'm at bottom. I don't, I don't go inside of
other guys's holes. That's not what I think.
And then I realized I love eating manhole.
Why can't I actually fist it tooand enjoy it?
(11:59):
And why can't I just enjoy it and not even have to fuck it?
I don't have to stick my Dick init to actually enjoy it.
And then I was like, oh, I get it.
There's this thing that I can see now that was evolving for me
sexually. And it's not that I am only a
Lesbro. It is in certain circumstances
with certain people. It is Lesbro activity.
And what that is, is to you guysenjoying finding gratification
(12:22):
and exploring their pussies together with the exception like
without involving the Dick. Yeah.
And I mean, yeah, and, and they might like maybe they Jack off
while they're riding toys together maybe, or something
like that. But if, if it's penis and hole,
then that's not Lesbro. But if it's hole in hole and if
it's one guy just working one guy's hole, that's not Lesbro,
(12:45):
that's just that's the top and bottom 2 bottoms.
Coming together to work each other's butt holes.
Yes, yeah. And they enjoy that because
there's there's a physical and there's an emotional and there's
all kinds of pleasure and gratification with that without
even touching your cock. You don't have to necessarily be
in chastity either. It's just that the cock isn't
involved as a primary mechanism for bringing joy in the
(13:05):
situation, which is counterculture to what we're
used to as gay men because it's always, it's always about top or
bottom. And so when I thought about
that, I was like, it's what lesbians would do, I think.
And so that's what that's what the term lesbro came into my
head. I was like, that's what it is.
I got it. I'll be honest.
So when I, when I heard the termlast night and I clot and I
realized I'm like, Oh my God. OK, so I call that bottoming out
(13:27):
with my broad bottoming out withmy Bros or whatever.
I just always wanted the bro to come over and ride toys with me
and just sit on, sit on, just work each other's holes.
And so I've I've kind of turned that bottoming out.
That's what I've, I've, I've called it Lesbro is much more
fun and less negatively connotated term for that.
And so I, I, and I guessed it right.
I was when my friends and I weretalking about it last night, I
(13:47):
just kind of pulled the room. What do you guys think this
means? And, and I was right.
So I knew exactly where the, where, the where that was going.
And I, and I love it. I think the term is really
clever, I think, but. Thanks.
And and yeah, I think, you know,ever since I've kind of I've,
I've been saying the word and guys have been reaching out
like, oh, what does that mean? You know what they're like,
yeah, that's totally, that's exactly what I feel and want.
(14:09):
And so it's been catching on because I, you know, I'm not
unique in some of my fantasies and desires, of course.
So other guys I'm sure would relate and and sure enough,
they're like, that's the perfectterm for that feeling.
It is, it is. It's a bottoming out.
Sounds a bad thing to me. I wish I had a better term for
that, but Lesbro, it's so much more fun so.
It's so fun. It's so fun.
That's awesome. And one thing I noticed last
(14:31):
night when I was going through your feed, you've talked about
how you guys, guys are intimidated by the size of your
hole and that's, I get it. I relate to you so much because
that's happened to me so many times.
Guys are intimidated to fuck me.Oh, you like taking a full arm?
You're never going to like to take my Dick.
It's so annoying. It's it's so frail.
I know. And so and it's such a turn off
for me when they get back. I just don't deal with this.
(14:53):
So do you see that as part of a bigger conversation about
masculinity and fragility and sex?
Yeah, yeah, definitely fist things.
Thank goodness for social media because it's become so much
more. It's becoming so mainstream.
It has its own, it has its own stream, but it's becoming more
main, if that makes sense. It's still kind of kink and side
ish in the sense of like, it's still taboo, but not as taboo as
(15:14):
it used to be. And and I'm old enough to know
when it was really, really taboo.
Back then, it was not desirable to have a loose hole.
Everyone wanted a tight hole. In the 90s these men would go to
doctors to specialize and to tighten their asses up because
they had and too loose. Oh my God, so crazy.
Oh yeah, there's doctors who specialized and you could still
do that procedure, of course, but it's not like it wasn't the
(15:36):
night. The guys were like the tightest,
the sphincter, like you can't even get a Dick in there.
So tight. I know.
Who wants to fuck that? Oh my God.
And so when you didn't have that, you were definitely an
outcast. Like you were not acceptable,
like, and, and so anyway that that in itself is, is masculine
(15:58):
frailty, frail masculinity, you could say.
And so now that people are seeing the, the level and the
different types of joy and fun that can come from having a huge
hole because there's so much youcan do to it when it's big.
It's it's not only it's opened up people's worlds who are open
to it, like more people are getting into it, but it's
freaking out the vanilla people.I know.
(16:20):
It freaks them out and I think there's so much to be said.
Like you said, it's like, oh, they're not going to feel my
cock because that is again, that's their frail, that's their
frail little egos where fun. It makes their Dick seem bigger
if it's tight. So if the tight, the hole is
tight, the cock looks bigger. Shaving your your pubes makes
the Dick look bigger. We all know that.
(16:41):
And the tight hole does the samething when the hole is big.
I think these frail men can't cope with the fact that it makes
their Dick look smaller. You're so smart.
It's like, it's like they can't,they're like, it doesn't,
they're, they're like, it doesn't look like it's big.
So I can't do this. And so I think there's a lot of
reasons, but I think that's one of them.
I think that's one of the primary ones is it punctures or
(17:02):
frail egos. And the other thing is, is a lot
of guys get off on causing discomfort or pain because it
makes them think like, oh, my Dick is big.
It's so big that this bottom is uncomfortable.
And when they can't create that ego is punctured again, like
he's not going to be annihilatedby my little Dick.
So therefore why bother, you know?
(17:24):
And so then to punish the bottomby saying, oh, it's so big and
awful or whatever, because they're frail and, and their ego
can't handle it. So they lash out and make fun of
you or me or people like us because they're insecure.
That makes so much sense. I've not put a ton ton of I've
always just kind of brushed off guys that aren't into my hole.
(17:44):
I'm just whatever. Like I there's, there's plenty
of fish in the sea, but I mean to to really psychoanalyze it
and think about what the reasoning is behind that.
You're so right. And then when they do fuck me, I
I have sex with Dick sex oriented guys occasionally,
usually boyfriends, because that's the only time I ever
really want Dick sex is when I'mwith a boyfriend or something.
And it is, it is. It does seem there's a lot of
(18:06):
guys I've dated tend to not be les Bros.
They tend to be Dick sex oriented guys that in the
whatever, for whatever reason, I've only had one fisting
boyfriend. And and yeah, they it does seem
to always be about you like thatDick.
You like that Dick. Yeah, I do.
But I mean, you know, I do. But there's something else I
like too. So it is, it is a kind of double
edged, I don't want to say double edged sword because I
(18:26):
don't know, maybe it is a doubleedged sword, but.
Yeah, I mean, for me, it's I can.
This is what I tell them, which is hard for them to understand.
I know when they're that frail, but I love to accept when I'm
having Dick sex. I'm not in a Lesboro mindset
either, right? Because unless I said Lesboro is
not a term that describes my total sexual identity.
It's when certain circumstances are play.
(18:48):
I still like to get fucked and Istill want to take loads and get
I I love being inseminated. I love having a man sperm in my
asshole. I love that sensation.
And when a guy is frail, I tell them that because it might help,
because it's like. You know.
I don't actually push them a little bit.
Yeah. I said if you come inside me,
that's that's really fun and exciting and that feels good.
(19:10):
You know, it's like holding, holding a frail little teenage
boy's hand, saying it's OK, you can do this.
It's all right. Like it's.
Where the involved? Wherever the birth.
Yeah, well, certainly, certainlysexually in the sense of, I
mean, I'm not afraid. Have you noticed that there's a
shift in the kinds of guys that are willing to engage with you
(19:32):
now that you're so open about your body and preferences?
Is there is, I mean, have you noticed like a different type of
guy being interested in you or is it just a lack of?
So how often do you encounter that still a?
Type of guy being interested in me.
Or no, I mean, how often do you encounter like the kind that
kind of like frail masculinity anymore since you become.
Moving out all the time, It's constant.
OK, Yeah, yeah, it's constant and they're everywhere.
(19:52):
That that I would say is not even the Midwest thing, although
it's highly concentrated. I see that in cities too.
It's the the frail egos. There's no discrimination there
in the sense of. Where they come from?
Where they come from, they're everywhere.
That's so it is such. I mean, if you're anything like
me, it is a huge turn off for meto be around that and just I
don't want to even want to like engage anymore.
(20:14):
I'm like, OK, well, this was fun.
So as soon as they start, as soon as they luckily, you know,
with me, I usually get it in a scruff or grinder message first
where they're like, I don't think you'll I don't think I'm
you know, I don't think I'm experienced enough for you or I
don't think that I'm going to beable to satisfy you.
I'm just like, you know what, you're probably right.
So let's just keep the train rolling.
(20:34):
This means something. This this next set of questions
is about your your toy safety. Kind of you've been vocal about
that in the past and what types of toys you use as far as
materials are concerned and stuff.
We've seen a lot of myself included, and I don't want to
necessarily say mine was toy related because mine was shower
shot related, but still, it's hurdable.
You've posted about strong opinions about unsafe toy
(20:56):
practices. What are your biggest kind of
red flags when it comes to sex toy use and why do you think
that people continue to ignore that?
Because I do see a lot of guys still posting a full insertion
and after what happened with Rexand everything like that, I feel
there should be this movement towards safer practices and I
still see it on the Internet kind of periodically.
Where? So what do you think?
What are your biggest red flags when it comes to toy play?
(21:18):
Yeah, there's, I just tweeted about this couple weeks ago even
because even though I've said itbefore, like you said, people
still do these things. And so I feel like people with
some platform have the obligation to say things like
that so that there are remindersthat are constantly being
generated to remind people aboutthese things.
(21:39):
Because you might tweet it once,but in six months there will be
different people watching what'sgoing on and they may not have
seen it. So I think when you have some
power of platform, then you havealso some responsibility to lead
and set tones because you have the ability to do so.
And so to be careful with what you do set the tone with or
(21:59):
choosing the tone you set and the messages you convey because
it has impact, it has tangible impact.
So when I do that, which I'll doperiodically, and I've written
some, I have Pink National Treasure Books Part 1 and Part 2
on how to bottom, like bottomingtips essentially.
And it's there. They're on Amazon and I'm
thinking about writing a third one.
But in there I talk about these same safety things too, because
(22:21):
firstly, I get a lot of people reaching out like I'm sure you
do, wanting advice and tips and stuff.
And, and the number like the topfive questions I get are usually
focused around how to douche, how to take things that are
bigger, what kind of Lube, So those kind of things.
And so anyway, those red flags that are like absolute, I'm like
(22:44):
hard nose on And please, this isfrom my own experience and from
other people's experience that I've seen when they've had
disasters happen. Like, these are the surest
things you can stay away from tohelp yourself stay safer and
have more fun and have longevityin what we're doing because I've
been doing this for 20 years. Yeah, me too.
(23:05):
Yeah, I've only been filming andcreating content since 2019, so
just six years. And so from my own experience of
20 years, plus the combined experience and knowledge of
other people I've worked with, pointy, pointy toys I think are
dangerous. If they've got even silicone
ones that are soft points, they can very much more easily
(23:27):
puncture when inserted. So avoid pointy toes.
Pointy toes. Avoid them.
Right back. Exactly.
Avoid those suggests. Some people like them.
Whatever. Avoid firm toys.
There's this, there's this, there's this idea I think that
we get in our head, especially when we're new to anal exploring
that if it's really hard, it's going to make me grow faster,
(23:49):
it's going to stretch me faster.I'm going to get better results
faster. Totally not true.
In fact, it's the opposite. You're going to be strained,
you're going to be, you're goingto be constricted more because
it's more painful and your growth is actually going to slow
down. If you have a softer toy, your
body muscles are going to relax around it more, it's going to
mold around you more, it's goingto be more pleasurable, you're
(24:09):
going to experience growth a little more faster.
And there's not, that's the thing that you said about
pleasure is there's not an increased amount of it's, it's
just pleasure period. It's not, there's an increased
amount of, there's this misconception that the bigger
you go, the more satisfied you'll be.
And I, I don't necessarily thinkthat that's been, this hasn't
been the case for me. I mean, I mean, I still get off
on one finger in my butt. So if it's done correctly, it's
(24:32):
done correctly, and if it's doneincorrectly or not, a full arm
can feel like a nightmare. So.
Yeah, it's so, so those are some, some of my.
So those are a couple of red flags.
Other ones like refrigerating your Lube, don't mix your Lube
and leave it out at room temperature because bacteria
will grow in it. And then as soon as you're
you've used it once, get rid of it, dump it and make a new
batch. Don't keep it in because you'll
(24:53):
get bacterial infections. You can get yeast infections,
you can get yeast buildup in your body, which I've
experienced and it's a bitch to get rid of.
Yeah. So there's that's an absolute
red flag when I see that. Also, let's see.
Don't mix drugs with playing. Just do not do it.
It's a recipe for disaster. It blocks your ability to
(25:17):
process, to feel, to comprehend,to analyze, to to discern from
what is pleasurable and what's too much, and it also inhibits
what you might do otherwise. During the more dangerous
activity over I know that for me, I mean, there's I have had
(25:38):
my most reckless behavior has always been under the influence
period. And so, and I've never been shy
about the fact that I have struggled with sobriety and
I've, you know, struggles with sobriety.
And so there's a reason if I filmed a a video where I put a
guy's foot in my ass to the kneealmost and I was out of my mind
(26:00):
and I would never do that sober and reality again.
And so there's a reason that I've never posted that video on
the Internet because I'm so inebriated and I know better
than to put there's a there are videos of me sober taking
there's why. I mean, I would never have gone
as extreme as I did where the guy was like, now stand up and
I'm like, OK. And so that was just, it was so
(26:20):
stupid. And and and I reflect on that
now. What were you thinking?
You could have died. And that's not a decision that I
would have made. I wouldn't have done half of
what I did had I been sober. And so I think that people don't
even, there's not enough of a conversation about that part of
it. Drugs are bad, yes, but drugs
are bad because you do dumb shiton them.
And you do. Yeah, so, so here's the thing
(26:42):
too, that there's a physio biological aspect to it that is
science based. So the basic premise of toy
insertion and fisting you as thethe receiving end of this, you
can't see what's actually happening inside your body.
You can barely see even the angles because the person or the
toy is inserting into your eyes are not at your asshole.
(27:02):
So that means, and if you continue to do toy play and
fisting itself, what's going to happen if you continue to do it,
your senses will become heightened, at least might have
my hearing, my ability to feel is so off the charts.
It's so elevated because the body is adapting because it
can't see what's happening inside.
So when there's a toy in me, even when I'm douching, I can
(27:24):
feel water in there. I can see what's happening
inside of my body by feeling. And when you use a substance
that inhibits you cut that communication off for yourself.
And it's, it's, it's so it's a biophysiological, it's a real
thing. And it's not just hyperbole
saying, you know, don't use drugs.
It's a real thing. And so, and I mean it.
And I have guys and I invite up here, I love my place in upstate
(27:48):
because it's, it's, it's a it's a retreat in a other ways.
Like guys who come up will come up for a weekend usually and
will film, of course, but we'll go on hiking, we'll go to great
restaurants. And I have forests and creeks
and all this beautiful abundance.
And so it's a it's a it's an escape for them.
Yeah, definitely, of course. Absolutely.
You should. Yeah, you definitely should.
(28:09):
And so when they're here, I have, when we're in
conversations about coming, I always set my boundaries and I
say there's no drug use. I have a sober property, so no
drinking, no drugging on the property.
And if they're here for just a day visit, don't show up high
because I will turn you away. I will have you go away.
And so, and even though I'm not intoxicated or high, I don't
(28:32):
want them either for the same reason, because they are then
feeling inside of me with their arm.
They're seeing inside of me withtheir arm.
They can't see inside with theireyes.
So they're feeling around in there.
And if they're inhibited, they could do damage.
And so even if there's somethinglike Adderall and Red Bull, some
guys will like to vape or they'll maybe do a little edible
(28:53):
and that's fine. I'm fine with that because they
don't get so erratic and crazy. That seems to be manageable for
if that changes, I'll change my boundary.
But the point is, is even someone who takes an Adderall
and a Red Bull, if they start this kind of kind of jittery and
I'm like, you know, and it's crazy because even this I had, I
had a encounter recently where the guy, he wasn't on anything,
(29:13):
but he had to take like in a RedBull.
And he was so strung out from the caffeine.
Oh my God, that yeah, that he was going from zero to 100 in
between things. He would be like really slow
fisting. And then all of a sudden I
believe I'm like, no, this you're not.
You're not listening to yourselfor to me.
Yeah, that communication is completely inhibited.
And that's dangerous. It's not only not fun, but it's
(29:34):
dangerous. Yeah, I know when when guys do
that, when they have, when, you know, when they're, it's an
unpredictable kind of fisting that's so frustrating.
It's like I like to feel the rhythm with them.
And if as long as we're on the same page, as long as we're on
the same rhythm and it works. But when you know, I'm expecting
it to be one page, 1 speed, one tempo, and then all of a sudden
it's there's an exclamation point randomly inserted in the
(29:56):
middle of the sentence. I'm like, and then it takes me a
minute to kind of get and then my trust is broken with them.
Yeah, yeah, get my, my, my bearings again.
Yeah, and I'm very vocal, I'm very verbal about saying what I
is feeling good and what needs to slow down, which is important
communications key. I think that a lot of times when
we're new, we're afraid to make the person that we're playing
with feel like we're being too demanding or something or
(30:18):
something. But it's like you can't be
afraid of communicating in thesesituations.
It's really important. And I guess I'll say one other
red flag for toys stuff, by the way, is baseless toys, as we
know, Stop putting toys in you that are baseless that you can't
easily take out. It's so dangerous.
It's not worth it. There's other things that are
satisfying that you can put inside of you that have a base
(30:39):
and stop putting things in therethat are not designed to be put
in there. Glass bottles, like shit like
that. Like please, we've all seen.
Glass ass. I feel like we've all seen that
video. Please don't do these things.
It is not worth it. I think that there is a
temptation to get likes and views in the world that we live
in and to create a viral video by doing something risky.
(31:00):
And there are other ways to create viral videos than
completely traumatizing yourselfthat way.
Yeah. And I will say that as somebody
who has gone through this traumaof hurting yourself and kind of,
I mean, I'm not on the other side yet.
I don't have my reconnection surgery yet for a couple more
weeks. But it's it's not worth it
because you don't, you don't realize a good thing until it's
gone. And so.
(31:21):
Oh my God. You know, it's I miss my
prolapse. I'm not going to lie.
It's still have a little one, but it's it's gone now.
It's not what it was. And so that's been huge learning
experience for me, like what my body can do again now that I've
been injured. And I don't wish that really on
anybody any fisting bottom. It's it's not fun and so.
(31:42):
What? This is kind of interesting.
I, I, I really, because I'm 100%on board with you on this next,
next, next bit vocal about beinganti pay-per-view and keeping
things accessible, you know, andso I have recently gotten myself
and not, not that I put my foot in my mouth because I didn't, I
just called out another content creator for bait switching.
(32:03):
I signed up for their page. It was $15.00 a month, which I'm
fine with. I have no problem supporting
creators. But then it was like they're 50
watch the video that I wanted towatch.
And I was like, fuck, bro, this is there was no disclosure
anywhere that this was a pay-per-view video.
And, and that really frustrated me as a consumer.
And so, and I've never done, I've offered pay-per-view videos
in conjunction with the same dayrelease or early release of a
(32:23):
video, but I've always made my videos part of the subscription
package. So how did you decide that
that's the route that you wantedto go?
And what is it done for you as far as your connection with your
fans is concerned? And they appreciated that kind
of model. What do you have to What are
your thoughts on general pay-per-view and in general?
Yeah, I mean, I would say that my my fan base and subscriber
(32:43):
base are very loyal and I I respect them so much for for
that loyalty. I would never do anything a scam
a quick buck from someone, let alone someone who's loyal.
I would never fuck over someone in general to make a quick buck
and I would never do it to people that are devoutly loyal
(33:04):
to me. To me, this is so disgusting to
set people up like that. And, and this industry is full
of that. I mean, we're, we're not shy and
short of gay baiters and people who are straight who are just
posting boner shots and calling it something else and getting
subscriptions and hustling. No, our industry is full of
that. And you know, it's gives it
(33:26):
gives this industry a bad name. It really does.
But frustrating as a consumer, it's frustrating.
Yeah. It's it's, it's a little, it's
just annoying because you know, you think you're going in for
one thing and then to have a completely other happen.
It's back, you know, it's. It's so dumb to me.
It's so unintelligible as someone who's producing a
product, because this is a product.
You're giving a product. I'm making a product.
(33:47):
I want that product to be good. I want it to be a good product
and you want people. To consume it.
Yeah, I I genuinely, actually enjoy making it and I want the
person to genuinely enjoy consuming it.
I there's nothing in my equationthat derives joy from from
scamming people. I just don't, I don't think that
(34:07):
way. I'll live that way.
It's abhorrent to me. I know that.
I know that some people do the pay-per-view thing like you're
talking about. One thing for me, I hate having
to do extra work. I hate having to do extra work.
I like making a good product andI like to put it out there and
not have to really think about it.
And for me to have like, oh, which video is a peep review?
(34:29):
One, which one is it have to like, man, I'm like, that's just
more management. I don't want to do that.
So there's that aspect of it. And two, yeah, I want someone to
enjoy my product and know that they are.
I want them to feel like they'regetting a good deal or good
value for what I'm giving because again, their joy is it
is. It's paramount to me.
And I think that maybe that maybe have to do with my
(34:50):
exhibitionist tendencies becausebefore I started doing this
content creation 2018, I would still film my encounters because
I love watching myself get turned up.
Yeah, I get so turned on and turned like I'll even, I will,
I'll even not have sex just because less I can film it
because I'm like, I want to watch it afterward because I'm
(35:12):
such I'm such a voyeur and an exhibitionist, sure.
And I love that people get theirjollies off watching me.
I love it. There's a little bit of a
there's a little fine lines after walk where you become like
a more like a little addicted tothe attention and the but as
long as you kind of keep that incheck and and and still are
enjoying it for yourself, I feelit's a it's still a healthy.
(35:33):
That's the most important thing.If for anyone who's going into
this, I don't do anything that isn't something I'm going to
enjoy. That's not fun.
I don't do anything unless I really want to actually do it,
and that's a powerful thing. And I don't real.
I didn't realize how many peoplearen't in that mindset when
they're doing this and it shows in their work.
It really does show. And that's one thing I think
(35:54):
about fisting, too, is I think that sometimes fisting is
becoming a bucket list or checklist item that guys are
doing just for the sake of having a fisting video on their
page. And that's not fairly, I don't
think, a positive thing. It's, yeah, cool fisting is
getting more visibility, but it's bad fisting.
It's not really done right. Yeah, half assedly.
And so not, not done with the care and respect that I think
that it deserves. So as long as long as there's
(36:16):
somebody in the room that knows what they're doing, like they
pretty much only film with, I mean, when guys come to me that
they want to, they don't have a single fisting video on their
page. I mean, for me, the connections
that I make for content have to be real connections.
They have to be, they have to. Otherwise it just feels like
porn. It just doesn't feel I'm cooking
up for fun and for the, for the,for the, you know, it doesn't
(36:36):
feel fun. Period.
Yeah, and, and, and I'm definitely all about consent.
Not, not for the sake of like, oh, I should get, I got to ask
this person consent. I, I don't like to have someone
here, you know, they're in a different space.
You know, they've come as a guest and I don't want them to
feel like they have to kiss me or cuddle me.
I have a guest room. So they're welcome to have their
(36:58):
own bed so that they don't have to feel obligated to sleep next
to me because there's all kinds of levels of intimacy.
And they may not want that leveland I may not want that level of
intimacy with them, but I may want to fist with them still.
I may want to do all those. I may want to play toys with
them because there's all these things we could or cannot do.
And so I usually don't even, I don't assume anything.
(37:19):
And then and then I'll ask like,Hey, can you, do you want to,
are you interested in, in tryingthis out?
Like, do you want to try puttingthis in my ass and this in your
ass at the same time? Are you OK with that?
And if they're not, then it's OK.
Like if you get a no, you can still actually have fun.
It doesn't mean in the world. And that takes a level of
maturity. And I think some people
sometimes struggle with with theaspect of consent.
(37:41):
They're afraid of being turned down or rejected at something.
It it's really great because youyou chisel out the experience
together and the other person responds well, really well to be
that's. All it's really about is the
experience and, and when it's a good experience, when it's
caught correctly on camera, people resonate with that.
(38:01):
People recognize, you know. Yeah, you can tell.
I can tell. I've I've been in situations,
circumstances where I'm like, I'm not really enjoying this
anymore now and it shows. It's very clear.
And I remember I had I had one guy here, he he was directing me
a little bit and he's like, you know, OK, when I'm doing this,
you know, make do this and make this now.
And I was like, you know, actually if you just have fun
with this, I'll have fun too. And we won't actually have to
(38:24):
act like we can actually, just actually enjoy this.
Unless this is something you're not actually enjoying doing,
then that's a different story altogether, you know, right?
That's sort of segues into into the difference between shock
value and genuine pleasure. And so do you think that there
is a difference between creatingcontent?
I mean, I, if you're anything like me, I don't care.
I don't create content for the purpose of shock value, but our
(38:45):
video can tend to be shocking. When I was watching, I was
clicking through your page and I'm I'm so impressed by what
you're able to do. It's so wild and there's so few
of us that can do that type of extreme play and but you're
still, you can tell that there'sgenuine pleasure happening
there. So is there a difference between
shock value and and pleasure foryou?
Or do you even consider that when you're making videos or?
(39:07):
No, no, I don't necessarily set out to try to make something
shocking because the nature of further exploration tends to be
shocking. So.
And what I mean by that is by continually experimenting with
new ideas, mostly to keep thingsfun and exciting for myself and
my loyal viewers who maybe want to see something different.
(39:28):
It could just be different angles or different toys, you
know, mixing things up, keeping it fresh really is rooted in
keeping this fresh and exciting and fun for me too.
And so from that sometimes comesa very exciting thing or a
shocking moment sometimes. But the motivation underneath of
it is what's most important, which is how do I keep this
(39:48):
funding fresh for myself and forothers?
That's the real motivator. The shock comes potentially
afterward. Maybe.
You know, totally, I totally getthat.
And that's I'll tell you that this I've been doing content for
20 years, almost since I was 18 years old and I was working for
Raging Stallion back in 2007. And I will say that this show is
my way of keeping content fresh for me because I was getting so
(40:11):
burned out of just always getting fisted every like I was
just editing, editing, editing same videos over and over and
over again that I needed to do something different that was
more engaging for me, a creativeoutlet.
And so that's. This has been my direction as
far as course correction as far as keeping things fresh for
myself, because now I still do the fisting videos and
everything. I've been spending way more
creative energy and creative expression on on these these
(40:32):
interviews and editing these andthese feel more validating for
me than they than it did for me to create content forever.
And so this has been a cool, cool exercise in.
These are great. I, I would love to do more stuff
like this to myself. I actually, I wish World of
Wonder would get in touch because I've got, I got a roster
of ideas of the things that we could be doing with this
community. And and still, even with
(40:54):
anonymity, even they need to be reaching out because if they
need programming, I've got I've got ideas.
I got ideas. It would be super fun.
Oh my God, it'd be so much fun. Yeah, these have been so great.
I mean, like it was started off just kind of let me talking to
the camera and then I was like, let me start interviewing people
and then it's now let's turn into kind of profiles on like
manizing other adult content creators and it's.
Yeah. It's so much, it's so that's
that's so important to me because I felt just a hole for
(41:16):
so long. And so it's really important to
me to put a face to these, you know, not, not even a face or
mask to these holes and be OK. There's actually relevant
stories here to be told and we have thoughts and and they're
intelligent and this is a good you know, it's turned into
something really kind of cool that I've last couple episodes
I've been really super excited about the guests and I'm really
(41:38):
excited to have you. It's been really exciting.
So talking about anonymity again, do you find it?
I guess sort of you've sort of already answered this, but you
don't really you haven't really had struggles with maybe you
have, but I'm just being presumptuous, but juggling an
online presence and your anonymity in in the real world.
Have you had anybody that's likeif you found out European
(41:58):
national treasure and then I know that I've had guys that
have found out that I'm hunger FF after the fact and then
they've lost interest in dating wise or whatever.
Has the has the big online presence ever impacted your your
dating life or your social life or anything?
Yeah, Well, I guess let me thinkin a way.
I mean, not the, this persona, not necessarily because most
(42:19):
people don't, if they're, if they're outside of this world
and Twitter and the community that we're wrapped in, if they
don't know who I am from knowingme, who I am through that Ave.
they usually don't know who I am.
Meaning I'm just, I'm just my regular person doing my other
things. And so I don't share this world
with them unless I feel like they're equipped mentally to, to
(42:42):
cope with it. And so and I, I love being able
to compartmentalize my life likethat.
It gives me so much power and, and so those who want to date me
who already know me, there's usually, you know, there's no
issue there, of course, because they already know this about me.
Now, if I attempt to date someone outside of our world,
(43:02):
outside of the content creator world, essentially, and in my
regular life, you could say I, Iusually don't even really try.
I don't, I'm not much. I'm not a traditionalist in the
sense of types of relationships and dating even anymore.
And that's not, that's not anything that's been long term.
That's more of a newer kind of revelation the last couple years
where I don't identify with heteronormative values really at
(43:27):
all. And that's taken a lot of
introspective work to see like, and I wish more people would do
in the sense of when they see something that is cast upon them
as like, this is what you shouldbe living like doing, question
it and say that might work for them.
Is it actually genuine to what Iwant in life?
Is that something that resonatesfor me?
(43:48):
Is that really who I am? Or am I just being told what I
should be doing? And through that type of
introspection, I have determinedthat much of what I see is not
for me. Like I really don't want to
have. I don't really have any desire
for that. I don't want kids.
I don't want to marry someone and and live in a in a house
even with them. Like I don't see that for
(44:10):
myself. I see myself loving and being in
all kinds of relationships with different levels of intimacy.
I see myself being in loving relationships with fisters and
non fisters and I see myself traveling with people who I'm
not sexual with, but we have a beautiful friendship maybe.
And I don't have any desire to navigate the direction and where
(44:34):
they go. And I think that's the shift is
I used to be, I used to need to come to say this is what we're
going to do. You and I are going to marry,
we're going to date, we're goingto this.
And I really step away. The more I see that coming at
me, I'm like this. Is giving me ethical flood
vibes, yeah. It's hard to wear.
(44:54):
Yeah. Yeah, I totally know that book.
Yeah. And and when I read that book
some 15 years ago, I didn't it didn't really resonate, resonate
with me. And so this is more born of my
own experience of like, what hasfailed and what has worked kind
of thing. And getting back to your
original question, when I've dated people who are not in this
world and I've let them peek into it, you know, they are
(45:16):
very, of course, judgmental. They're they're scared of it.
They're one guy even said he's like, what am I going to tell my
parents? I was like, why do you have to
tell them? Why would they even have to
know? Like that's such a bizarre thing
to say. Talk about being in different
worlds entirely. OK, we're not in the same, same
world at all. So I so I would say it's not a
(45:37):
problem because I'm really not interested in, I think a
traditional sense of things. That's great.
That's amazing. I mean, really.
Lovely. Yeah, I've had, I've had a
couple of instances where guys have not who've lost interest in
me because of hunger FF and thenand in reality, I don't really
necessarily want them in my lifeanyways.
(45:57):
If they're going to, it's a partof, it's a part of me.
It's not all of me. And so, but I've been doing a
lot of work recently to differentiate the two parts of
me, the parts that are content creators and the parts that
aren't. And so if you can't take the
good, then you don't. You can't can't take the bad,
the bad, then you can't handle the good either.
I was going to ask, looking ahead, what's next for you?
Do you have any projects or collaborations or anything that
(46:18):
you've got in the books that you're looking forward to?
Or where can people find more ofyou on on the Internet?
I have all, I always have more ideas.
It's one of my things is I burstinside with ideas and things
that I want to do. And as any human is limited by
time of day, there's only so many hours in the day, right?
And right now, the last couple years I've been renovating,
(46:40):
renovating this house, which is a massive undertaking.
And I'm almost done. So think, bless the guys who
have come up to visit me becauseit's really been so much fun.
And I, I, I love hosting, I loveplaying Hostess actually.
But it's been really great to not have to travel so much so I
can focus my resources on renovating the house.
But once the house is done, which is hopefully actually by
(47:01):
the end of the summer, I'm goingto, I want to travel a lot more,
which means more people that I want to have sex with with and
play with and create content with.
There's so many people that I have not yet played with that
I'm dying to yes, you're yes, you're one of them.
And I'm like, God, I have to getout.
And I've been really, I've been such a good boy.
I've been so disciplined becauseI'm like, just finished the
house because of I delay it. It's never going to be done.
(47:23):
Like if I just, I got to push through, I'm just going to stay
focused and I'm almost there. So look forward to more travel
in future, which means more super fun collaborations,
hopefully even some more wild outdoor and public stuff that
the places I travel to will afford.
Maybe I want to go on a cruise and do something completely
(47:45):
crazy on a gay cruise, which is actually which is what I bought
this outfit for. I'm going to show you this
outfit. It's a gold chain jock, but it's
got a gold thong that the thong comes out.
So I could take loads in this. I could get fisted in it.
I could walk around. Kind of amazing.
It's kind of amazing. It's giving me a little bit of
Princess Leia, but like also, I love it.
It's so hot. I had it, I had it made because
(48:06):
I was like, I want to go on a cruise.
I don't know when even I don't have tickets for a cruise yet,
but I know I'm going to go on one.
And so I had it made for that. So I can make an event out of
that. So yeah.
But so there's going to be there's going to be so much more
happening, I think. And again, like I said with
World of Wonder, get in touch because has got lots of ideas
(48:27):
and there is a world of opportunity for all the budding
and blossoming queerlings that are coming up because the world
will always produce more gay people who need to and want to
learn about this stuff. And we need safe role models
like ourselves to say, don't do this.
We do not recommend this and then provide an Ave. for more
(48:48):
people to see what we're doing to learn from us.
I hope that that's in the futuremore and of course,
responsibility. Exactly.
And I'm exclusive on Just for Fans, so I just keep it simple.
I just post my content on Just for Fans of Pink National
Treasures. So that's where they can always
find my full content is there. It's so nice and easy to have
that. Such a great I'm actually
Dominic Ford's going to come on the show soon.
(49:10):
Oh. Awesome.
Yeah, I'm really excited becausetalk about kink friendly
platform and stuff like that, what it takes to run 1 and he's
excited. To me, yeah, I, I, I've been
wanting to do their get together, their annual events.
I again, I've been limiting my travel on purpose to just focus
on getting the house done. But that's one thing I'm going
to do also when I'm freed up is do some more of the Just for
(49:30):
Fans events because they have somuch fun together.
I think it would be so much fun.I went to the one in Vegas in
2020 right before COVID and it was like so insane.
It was so fun. I had such a good time.
Like people, big event that I went to.
Yeah, yeah. So many cool.
There's so many great creators that I have yet to meet and play
with and I've just so much to doand fun.
(49:53):
So much fun to have still. So many to do.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Thank you, Pink National Treasure.
Thank you so much for coming on the show.
I really appreciate. Thank you for having me.
Yeah, This was this. This happened yesterday, right?
Didn't I just ask you yesterday to do this or was it the day
before? I think so.
It was. I love how fast this happened.
It's still organic, so fast. And I'm just really grateful for
your time and you guys, if you guys are enjoying the show, we
(50:16):
are on Apple Podcasts, Amazon slash Audible, YouTube and
Spotify. New video episodes go live on
hungerff.com. And just for fans slash hunger
FF 8:00 on Friday nights. Video episodes are available
early on Spotify to subscribers only.
As soon as I'm done editing themagain one final time.
Thank you so much, Pink Nationaltreasure.
You've been a great and you've been a treasure.
(50:37):
Thank you so much. And I look forward to yeah.
And I look forward to seeing youguys again next week.
Have a good one. Good night, thanks for going
deep with me on Hunger FF Presents Prolapse.
If you're loving the ride, hit subscribe, drop a review, and
share the fisting love. Follow me on social media at
Hunger FF for unfiltered updatesand exclusive content.
But until next time, keep it raw, real, and always hungry.
I'll see you on the next episode.
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