August 29, 2025 • 47 mins
For the 50th episode of Brolapse, Ryan James (@HungerFF) welcomes award-winning director and producer I Que Grande (@I_Que_Grande)—best known for his work with Raw Fuck Club, Treasure Island Media, and as the host of Demystifying Gay Porn.
Together, Ryan and Luis take listeners on a candid journey through their years working together, from chaotic sets at RFC to major productions like Gangbang Proposal. Luis recalls his unexpected entry into the industry via a Craigslist ad, his transition from editing to directing, and the technical craft behind shooting hardcore scenes—even when they weren’t necessarily his personal kinks.
The conversation dives deep into the art of porn production: editing styles, camera techniques, and what truly makes a great scene. They reflect on the balance between passion and professionalism, and share their frustrations and joys with an industry often misunderstood from the outside. Luis also opens up about the evolution of Demystifying Gay Porn, his archival work in preserving queer erotic history, and how podcasting has given him a new way to tell stories.
From misconceptions about porn stars being “dirty” or “uneducated” to the truth about how much hustle and skill it takes to succeed, Episode 50 is both a celebration and an education. It’s about survival, creativity, and the importance of preserving queer history.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Brolapse, the fistingpodcast that goes deep explore
my life, views and raw, unfiltered conversations with
the creators that are redefiningkink connection in the fisting
community. Hey guys, we're back for another
episode of Brolapse. This is episode 50 and I have a
guest today on the show that I'msuper excited to have Aikid
Grande. If this if I say that correctly,
(00:21):
that are OK for people who mightnot know you.
We, we go way back, probably it was pre pandemic, it was like
2018-2019. I feel like I probably met you.
And so we work together at Raw Fuck Club.
You taught me a lot about cameraand just being a little grip
(00:42):
assistant to you on some crazy shoots.
And then we work together on a little project for, for the site
and when my site launched and everything.
It's which has been really cool to get to know you over the
years and I'm really grateful tohave you on the show.
So thank you. Thank you so much.
And likewise, honestly, Mr. Danvers, why?
Why Real quick, 'cause you brought that up that that is
(01:04):
still on the back burner. I didn't know how to proceed
with it. Our little project, the one that
we went and now you're relaunching the website or you
relaunched the website. So so.
I think a good catch up would would be necessary at some
point. I finally figured out what to do
and that's kind of where the podcast where I am with
demystifying geek porn has gone OK, but it took like it's, it's
(01:24):
pretty much on the timeline. The sequence is done and I was
like, OK, well where does this fit in?
How do I do this? I'm excited.
I mean, like, I, I didn't bring that up in a way to be like,
what happened to that? No, I know, I know.
I remember one of the things that you said that I am very big
on to you is you had mentioned once you put it out there or
once it's done, that means it has to go out.
(01:45):
And I'm, I'm very much like thattoo.
So it's, it's done. It's, it's been, it's been
produced or we recorded it. It's on a timeline and it's
going to have a release. Date I'll never forget.
Hey, Janet. Yeah, no, I, I, I'll, you know,
if anything, I'll send you a rough cut just so you can see
where, where I put everything. You know, it was, it was going
(02:07):
to be like an hour long, but then eventually I was like,
maybe it should be 20 minutes. I've got some inspiration from
Vice because I like what they doon their, on their YouTube
channel. So it's been to us back and
forth as to how to handle. It awesome I.
Trust. Footage, I trust you inherently.
I mean, I'm sure it's going to be whatever you make.
I'm sure it's going to be awesome.
Yeah. And then I'll share with you and
you can put it up on your platform.
(02:27):
That'll be super exciting, superexciting.
I've got, I've got some other cool news to tell you too, but
I'm going to start first with you.
So how did you get started in the porn industry?
I know you've got a funny story how it started.
Yeah. Well, I mean, I was working for
a Spanish Spanish channel that was coming here from Puerto
Rico, and I was going to be their production coordinator.
And that wasn't panning out the way it was supposed to.
(02:51):
It was delaying. So I went on Craigslist, which
was all the rage back then. And I, I saw a job opening for
video editor. And I was like, OK.
And then it just happened to be a gay porn company.
And I showed up to this office in Jersey City, NJ, where you
wouldn't suspect that people would be shooting gay porn or
editing gay porn. And there I met Mattias von
(03:12):
Fistenberg and I met Owen Hawk. And they wanted to make sure
that I knew that it was a gay porn company.
And I was, I was very well aware.
And they, they put me on almost immediately right after.
That's amazing. Yeah.
It's, I mean, there's a lot moreto it.
I know the video editor that I was replacing was there and he
was the one in charge of giving me the footage to edit.
(03:32):
I had an hour to edit all of this stuff.
And I, I, I didn't complete it because you need, I think it was
2 camera set up and you need like an hour to look at the
footage before you can actually figure it out.
Yeah. And I feel like I was kind of
set up for failure. But when I explained that, I
think they gave me a little moretime and I kind of put together
like the trailer and. Awesome.
(03:53):
And then from there, yeah. OK, there's a story though that
the first video that they had you edit was something really
extreme. Triple F or.
Sex crime? Was it sex crimes or was it
triple F? No Sex Crimes is 2 thousand 2012
OK Triple F was a studio that wewere doing called Pine Pork
Studio and it was based out of Europe.
(04:14):
You edited that movie. Yeah, I look, I come from a
pharmaceutical video background.And when I saw that, I was just
like, oh, OK, this is interesting.
I I watched it from a different perspective.
So it didn't really have an effect on me or the effect that
you would think it would have onon somebody that's not into it.
You know, it's not, it's not my thing, but I can, I can sit
(04:36):
there and I can edit it because I'm looking at it from a
technical aspect. But I, I, I ended up adding a
new trailer for them and I thinkI just kind of, it was my first
week there and I wanted to really impress someone.
I put together this trailer and they were like, wow, this is
amazing. But I spent like a day on it
now. I added trailers in 30 minutes.
Yeah I know, my trailers are like I literally just cut
through to find the best groups of like 5.
(04:57):
Seconds. Yeah, I'll give you a little, I
don't know if you do this, but because you're editing your own
stuff too, but one of the biggest or the best secret side
I would, I would say is while you're while you're looking at
your footage, just pull out the clip and then put it on top on a
second sequence. I'm not sure if you do that yet
or not. I haven't done that yet, but I
it's amazing. When I dated Will Angel, he did
the same thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
(05:17):
It's the best way to. Then you you go back and you
sweep and you just put that on adifferent timeline and maybe I
can. Pick your brain a little bit
later, too, because like my I, Ifeel like the trailer style
today is so different. The way that trailers are edited
together, They're so quick, like, you know.
You crossfade that that's that'sI just learned how to edit
crossfade, though, you know that, right?
(05:38):
Like it's a it's great. It's taught on and people love
it, but I think it's so lazy. I I, it's it, but whatever, you
know, it's fine. It's either that or a jump cut
or, you know, nobody goes nobody.
Have you noticed like there's noamazing crossfades anymore
because those transitions are onAdobe Premiere and nobody has
Adobe Premiere in my opinion. I can unless.
Are you editing on it? That's perfect.
(06:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But The thing is, is we we've
we've gotten to the point where all we do is use crossfades.
We don't use the elaborate transitions or you don't see
them on on Twitter a lot or on XA lot because, you know, all
these guys aren't learning how to edit their stuff on on the
software that's made for that. If anything cap cut or something
on their phone or. Yeah.
(06:20):
And I, I, I only use Adobe Premiere, so yeah.
And so, but Adobe products I feel are so scary at first when
you first see them. Oh my God, there's 10,000
fucking options. There's so much to look at.
And then once you kind of get the hang of 1 Adobe program, I
feel they all become a little bit easier to use.
(06:40):
And so it's like, yeah, So that's.
Kind of. Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't.
No go. Ahead, go ahead, go ahead, go
ahead. But.
That's how that's kind of how I feel about Final Cut Pro.
The when they did the major overhaul in like 2012, I was
like I don't want to work on this and luckily didn't work on
it for like 5 years because thatupgrade didn't support DVD
Studio Pro and Dark Alley and Raw Fuck love in every studio.
(07:04):
At the time we're still making DVDs.
Yeah. So we didn't upgrade our stuff
until like 2018 and by that point I was already working on
Premiere. OK, so you.
Which is what I learned. I learned how to work.
Do you edit on Premiere now still?
Yeah, yeah. Cool.
I went back to basics. That's basically how I learned
how to edit college. Then I got out and everybody was
using Apple products, and then all of a sudden Premier came
(07:25):
back in. Yeah.
And I've experimented with AfterEffects.
I taught myself a little bit of After Effects too and that shit
is complicated as fuck. No?
Get a tutorial, get have have some 12 year old on YouTube
teach you how to edit with aftereffects.
Yeah. No, I mean, I, I usually just
get a template and then just follow the directions and and it
turns into something really cool.
(07:45):
So, yeah, so let's let's talk about when we work together at
RFC. You taught me a lot about camera
work, my field kind of mentoringunder you for several shoots.
I remember when I met you, I wasso nervous there.
Lewis is coming. Lewis is coming.
And I was OK. I mean, I could get on these
coming. I could go.
Everybody calls me. Everybody calls me Louis on set.
It's. OK, cool.
So I remember being nervous and then we were vibed like right
(08:07):
away. So what?
What drew you to the technical side of porn production?
How did you go from editing to filming?
I was always was always a filmer.
I enjoyed doing that, but I had to get, I had to be, I had to
build some kind of credibility before I actually did that with
Matt and with with Owen. And I knew how to do camera
work. I always did it on the side and
(08:27):
stuff. And then I went from editing to
production coordinating and thenfrom production coordinating to
shooting. And all those aspects were stuff
that I did in either previous jobs or, or at school.
So I pretty much knew how to do it and I don't know, I really, I
really liked liked what I had a very healthy relationship with
porn and I still do, and too healthy sometimes.
(08:48):
You kind of have to have a healthy relationship with porn
if you work in porn. Yeah, you do, You do.
And for a while, you know, for the first two years I was like,
what is it abstinent? My my sex life was porn, my job.
And it was really hard for me tokind of get into it.
But at that point X2 was coming out and that was a turn on to
me, the idea of like, you know, amateurs doing all this stuff
(09:08):
and, you know, amateur is very different than the fan sites
that we have today. But.
Yeah, which is sort of depressing for me a little bit.
I really loved the Wild West eraof just for fans when it was
straight up amateur all the time.
And now it's become mini porn studios.
Everybody's a mini porn studio. And so and they shoot at a porn
studio with lighting and cameraman.
(09:30):
And so it's, it's, it's the the purpose of what I think the, the
thing that made fan sites special is now reverting back to
the studio model, which we were all trying to get away trying
to. Escape and the model that
everybody's trying to escape, The thing is, is whenever money
gets involved, everything gets money.
And you know, you can't fall everybody for trying to make
(09:50):
their money. But when you show up to the gay
VN's or something and you're meeting somebody and they have
20 shoots in two days, yeah, I can't imagine how much fun that
is. You know, I don't envy that.
No, I I'm like a A2 shoot a day person maximum.
If I if I and I don't know, it'sjust my body can't handle more
(10:11):
than that. I'm almost 40 and I'm tired.
I'm like one shoot a day. I'm good.
I'm like. What will you do is art.
I mean that's that is it's. It's taxing on my body and
especially now with what happened to me, I'm so I mean
like I've been. Following.
Yeah, so my accident happened and it's but I mean, I have an
amazing surgeon and I can still do all the same even with the
(10:32):
injury, I can still do all the same things that I have done in
the past. So it's pretty, pretty cool.
So and. He was on your podcast too.
Dude, my biggest episode ever was the episode of Oh yeah, my
surgeon was on the podcast. Yes, yeah, but my biggest
episode ever was the episode about my accident.
Really twice it's over. I mean, just it's twice as much
as episode the second most popular episode.
(10:54):
There were so many people that listened to that episode in my
my traffic when that episode aired quite quadrupled and then
stayed at that level going forward.
So I was kind of a blessing in disguise.
It definitely, definitely helpedbring, you know, awareness to
the show, which was which was kind of cool.
So. You've.
You've worked with huge studios like Raw Funk Club and Treasure
Island. What was that experience like
(11:16):
for you, especially since you weren't necessarily coming at it
from a fetish or kink perspective?
Because both studios can kind ofbe a little fetishy.
Yeah, I'm reminded of that by people.
Sometimes I'll read comments andoh, he comes from the dirtiest
studios. And I'm like, OK, well, I mean,
just as the studios are dirty doesn't mean I have to be dirty.
I do. I come from it.
I'm not going to lie to you. When I first started doing this,
(11:38):
it was a means to an end. It was just a cool means to an
end. I was still making documentaries
and still having projects on theside.
However, this was a way to make some money, pay some bills and
afford a lifestyle that allows me to to make other projects.
And that doesn't mean that I didn't put as much as I could
into them. And there's just something about
(11:58):
watching it and little by little, as you start watching
how people are having sex in front of you, you take that and
you combine it with the best things that you love about gay
porn or porn in general. And you get, you get a good
scene. But it's just, it's, it's, it's
like shooting narrative. It's just, you know, people
aren't talking, they're just having sex.
So it's very similar. It's not easy.
(12:20):
I don't think everybody can do it, you know, just 'cause you
hold a camera. I always say there's.
I don't even know if you remember this, but there was a
scene, I don't know if you were filming it with me or Matt was
filming it with me, but it was like poor guys and they were all
trying to come and they were allin different corners of the room
eating off by themselves. And then one of them would have
to come. They'd have to run back to the
center and pretend like they were fucking.
And I don't know if that was youthat filling out with me, but I
(12:44):
just that memory sticks out of my brain as just that.
Sounds like Mathias to me. OK.
You know, you know, I, I think that, you know, the last thing
you want to do is stress anybodyout on set, especially if they
have to come and stay hard and all that fun stuff.
Oh my God, It was just funny. I'll just, I'll never forget
just looking at every corner of the room and there was this guy
jerking off in each corner and like, yeah, be like, I gotta
(13:06):
come. And they come running back to
the center. Everybody and everybody's in
their head, they have their thing either on a phone or
watching porn or they're, you know, playing with nipples or
it's, it's it's fascinating. It's fascinating.
It's it is. Yeah.
Yeah. Honestly, bottom line is I try
to do the best with what I'm given or what studio I'm working
(13:27):
with and I try to please them asmuch as I can.
And I think I've done a good jobwhen it comes to felching and
fisting and stuff like that. I can see it and be like, that's
amazing, good for you. But it's just, you know, it's
definitely not something that's in my wheelhouse.
Like wow, physical wheelhouse. Sure, because you filmed a
couple of fisting scenes, didn'tyou?
Yeah, absolutely. No, I filmed so I got to Dark
(13:49):
Alley before fisting Underground3.
OK, which was, you know, their biggie at the time.
I edited 25th weekend, which youremained very, very, very, very
cleverly and stylistically was awesome.
Yeah. And so I edited those films and
yes, I've edited a couple or I've, I've shot a couple of
films or scenes. And while it's happening, I'm
(14:12):
not really thinking like, oh wow, there's a hand going in the
butt. I'm more thinking, OK, well,
make sure you get this angle andmake sure it looks a certain way
so I can shoot it. I can absolutely shoot it and
not have a problem with it. If anything, I was always scared
when I first started because because I'm not in that world, I
don't know if I'm providing a safe space for the people that
are doing it. So that's the only thing that
(14:32):
would kind of streaked me out a little bit, a little bit.
And then eventually, little by little, I was like, OK, well,
you have to ask the right questions before someone's like,
I want to get fisted on camera, you know, like, is it your first
time? Yeah.
Exactly. Exactly.
And you can always tell when they are.
It's that was always kind of my gripe with with Matt, and I'll
probably edit this part out, buthe would always just want the
most beautiful men together, regardless of whether they were
(14:55):
fisters or not. And I was like, yeah, you can
tell that they have no idea whatthey're doing.
Like I'd rather. It's OK, OK action.
Exactly. Oh my God, it's OK.
He would be like, I would bring him models that were like really
handsome, like handsome to me and like we're big in the
industry. And he'd be like, no, no, I'm
like, OK, so let me just find the next steroid muscle queen I
(15:15):
can find and then we'll put her.What's the last person you want
on Santa Taking the fist? Yeah, so it was funny.
So I we work together on gangbang proposal, right?
That was you and me. For people that don't know or
don't remember, The Gangbang Proposal was a movie where Brian
Bonds proposed to Mason Lear at the end of a gangbang and I had
the ring in my pocket for the whole shoot.
(15:36):
What do you remember about putting that production
specifically together? Because that was pretty big
media thing. It was all over the place.
That was like one of the first, remember when like Twitter
started blowing up with, with porn stars and stuff and or
underground Twitter, you know, because there's, there's the
real Twitter and then there's our Twitter.
But yeah, that was, yeah, no, that got a lot, hundreds of
thousands of views. My recollection is that was a
(15:58):
Nick Moretti film, and you, I think.
I don't think so because Nick was I was Nicks replacement.
Did I think Nick put it togetherthough?
Oh, OK. I remember, I remember walking
into that, they flew me down because I was going to shoot it.
Oh yeah, that's when we were. Going to be second camp.
OK, OK. And I think that's the first day
we met. We walked it.
(16:18):
I think I got off a plane. I went to Matt's apartment and I
was at the studio and we were going to shoot this gangbang
proposal. And I think I told you to
concentrate on faces and when I'm in the shot, just get
another shot and all that fun stuff.
But yeah, I remember, I didn't know that you were Nick's
replacement, but I thought you were brought on as casting Nick.
(16:40):
Nick, whatever Nick was, Nick was casting and Nick was doing,
I was, I was a replacement for part of what he was responsible
for. OK, so.
Yeah, it was not his replacementin general, but it was like he
left. Matt hired me from X2.
I remember. That.
I was just on X2 and so and Mattand I got a message from
Matthias von Fistenberg and I was like, what?
(17:03):
And so and then he offered me a job.
So that was pretty cool. Yeah, well, that's cool.
Those were all, and I've worked at Brian, I've worked at Mason
before and stuff, but those are predominantly Knicks models.
That's that's why I remember that.
I remember that vividly because of the fact of that.
I was a great shoot though. I mean, even with that being the
case, getting there and kind of not directing, but telling the
(17:25):
giving them a template of what they're going to do.
So that way we're working with them, but we're not getting in
their way. Yeah, that was a lot of fun.
I think that's a. Lot of guys.
That went smoothly too, for the amount of guys that we had in
their own. I remember that was one of my
first times doing camera for Raw.
Fuck club. And I was like, there's so many
people. Yeah, yeah.
Now crazy. It's it's nuts.
(17:46):
I was glad. I was glad that you were there.
I was glad. And you were.
Yeah, you were so cool. So.
OK, good. Yeah, you, you made that
experience a lot of fun. It sort of sounds to me the more
where you talk about the stuff that raw fuck club has a
tendency to throw people in the deep end like.
Yeah, here you go, you know, absolutely, absolutely.
But I think, I think raw fuck club, I think, and we're allowed
(18:07):
to talk about all this stuff, which is amazing.
There's no claw. I have no claws, no anything.
But looking back, like Rafa club, just like anything, it was
just a couple guys. It was a couple guys, some kind
of, they kind of know what they were doing, but they did it well
and they showed, they showed it well.
Or they or they, they had good face.
Yeah. But yeah, behind the scenes it
was. It was crazy.
(18:32):
People don't know that, but I mean like.
When? I came in, yeah, lovingly a big
mess. When I came in and I organized
the 2257 folder, I was like, what is this?
What is happening here? So.
But that was wild. Yeah.
I have so many, so many good memories from that time and so
many just, you know, tragic memories.
(18:54):
Yeah. Will you tell me what?
Go on, go on. Getting fired on Christmas,
being replaced on Christmas Day for no reason.
It was like this is bullshit. Yeah, Merry Christmas to you
too. Or Hawk.
Yeah, I I think there's there's a lot of things that that kind
of didn't in hindsight. You look at it and you're like,
OK, well, that was, that was pretty Dick.
Like there's a lot of things forno reason other than, OK, well,
(19:17):
we were probably in the way. Yeah.
It's which sucks, but. Yeah it sucks I wish no ill will
I still kind of I well I we knowthe whole thing that happened in
October with RFC channels yeah yeah and I watch on X.
You know this this amazing storyplay out and I'm like.
Did you see my reply? No.
(19:38):
No, I didn't. Wait, wait, wait.
I may have. Was it very?
Was it very incendiary? Yes.
I saw it. I saw.
I was like re put you so bitch like.
I remember, I remember. I was so just because I was just
sitting there because I rememberthinking to myself, you swim
with sharks, you're going to geteaten.
(19:59):
And so when he got eaten, I was like.
You were swimming with a shark. What did you expect was going to
happen? There's blood in the water.
Like you're, you know, whatever.So, yeah, it was, there was.
I don't usually involve myself in Twitter drama because I feel
that's a really great way to getyour Twitter account deleted.
You start saying things that are, that can be misconstrued as
insults or whatever, you know, but I was careful with how I
(20:20):
said it. But I just, I know I his.
I struck a nerve. Yeah, I can imagine.
I I saw that and I saw the stateof be it who it is.
I saw the state of somebody thatwas like a brother and they both
are, you know, they they both, they both are have were really,
really cool to me. And it's kind of like when when
you're in a relationship, you know people for 13 years, you
(20:41):
don't just I mean, you can stop talking to them or stop seeing
them all the time, but it still doesn't take away from the fact
that you've known people for a certain amount of time, right.
Personally, you know, intimately, not like, you know,
sexually intimately, like like abond, let's say.
And when I saw some video responses, I was like, this
person needs a friend. Like, and you know, I know, I
(21:03):
know how it all rolled out and everything, but even if it's
just say, Hey, I hope you're OK.And that's, that's kind of
where, where it's been. Yeah, I don't want to, I don't
want to pivot into this topic too much because I mean, I'm
hanging, you know, I just say that I'm hanging in there,
hanging by a thread, but I'm still got the thread hanging.
So it's, you know, it's I've gotdid you know I wrote a book?
No. Yeah.
So. OK.
(21:26):
Wow, that's beautiful. So this is so I've got a
tentative hopefully one day I'm chatting with my dream publisher
about publishing the book and it's coming out hopefully in
2027. Very cool.
Yeah. And it's it's, it's a full,
that's my latest. That's the thing I'm pivoting to
right now that I've been spending a lot of time working
on. It's from all the way from when
(21:47):
I was childhood stuff to 1st getting into the porn industry,
learning from Matt and Rafa Club, my experiences there, and
then into hunger, FF and all theinsane, insane shit that I've
done in my life since then. So it's really exciting.
That's been what I've been pouring my energy into that in
this podcast, so. I would love to read it if you
(22:10):
have a digital or sample copy that I can.
Yeah, it's still in the editing phase like this is, it's still
it's, but it's, it's fun. It's it's, I'm really proud of
it. So go ahead, you should be.
It's not easy to write a book. Congratulations.
Thank you. Thank you.
Yeah. It took roughly a year to finish
it up and there to get to. I've been working on it for
roughly about a year. And so just to know that it's
(22:31):
kind of around the corner to being actually in a fucking
Barnes and Noble hopefully one day, yeah, it's pretty exciting.
So. I have.
You know, I've been inundating myself with collection.
I don't know if you can see it back here, but there there is
like a collection of of books, rare, unique, like very hard to
find books about the porn industry, about porn models and
(22:53):
stuff. So I do know a couple of
publishers, Sindelman and Company is 1.
I'll give you a list of a couplethat are doing stuff.
OK. A lot of them are are photo
books. But The thing is, is they deal
with, they'll get you the right audience before, you know, going
into a bigger audience, you know?
So yeah, I'll, I'll send you a couple of them.
So do you think that the outsider perspective, filming
(23:16):
from the eyes of somebody who's not necessarily into the fetish
specifically, gave you a different style or way of
capturing it? Yes and no.
I think honestly my style I attribute to 20.
What is it 20? Yeah, like 20 years of yoga in
my opinion. 20 years of yoga. 20years of yoga movement at least
(23:36):
because OK, cool, I am behind the camera, every single camera
that we've had. I mean, when I was younger, I
don't think that I realized whatI was doing.
But now, especially as I get older, as you know, you move
with intention. There's definitely, I see the
correlation between that. So I think that absolutely
helps. I think the fact that I
understand that while people arehaving sex in front of me,
(23:58):
that's not particularly my time.What I'm there to do is capture
them, have sex. That helps too, because, you
know, working for a certain amount of companies you see or
you've heard or you, yeah, you, you kind of see some people.
Predatory. Yeah, yeah.
And, and that's not cool. I mean, if the people are cool
(24:19):
with it and everything, great. But I've been on set and, you
know, models touch you. And I, look, I'm flattered,
beautiful man. But The thing is, is that this
is not what I'm here for. I'm here to do my job.
You're here to do your job. Let's just get a good scene, get
paid and go home. Yeah.
So I attribute yoga and and the fact that it's it's their time
in that space and not providing a space and I'm going to make
(24:40):
them look as good as they let memake them.
Yeah, awesome. That's great.
And I do remember your movement style.
I, I learned a lot from you and I took a lot from you, from
watching you in those the couplemonths that we got to work
together. When I do camera, you know,
what's always funny for me is that when I do camera work for
other people, I'm always like, damn, it's good.
Like and like and then I and then they do camera work for me
(25:01):
and it's time to flip and they do the camera for and I'm like.
I know, I know it's so, it's, soit sucks, but everybody has
their own style. Everybody has the way they do
stuff. And you can teach somebody and
I've, I've had, I've taught a couple of people and, and they
are, they're great, you know, the steady camera and all that
stuff. But it's kind of like I forgot
who I was talking to. I was talking to Champ because
(25:22):
Champ used to follow me around for Raphael Club for a while too
before he started. Robinson.
And Robinson, yeah, before he started his company, he was, he
came around, he didn't get paid.He would just, he wanted to
learn how to do this stuff. And there were times where even
now I see some of his stuff and I'm like, who's your camera gal?
And I correct myself, am I? Who's the guy holding the camera
(25:43):
or holding the phone? Because there's a cameraman and
then there's just a man holding the phone.
And there's a big difference between those two.
And if you find yourself with somebody who you can see like
you know, you know a good performer when they're looking
at the camera, you know, and they're opening up to the camera
and stuff, if the camera guy is not paying attention, you get
yourself a good camera guy. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Was that because was this? Was the camera work not good on
(26:05):
the stuff? OK.
For Yeah, for I think he had, hehad somebody in Atlanta pick up
for him. And I watched some of the stuff
and I was like, listen, you know, for, for the amount of
work that you put into this stuff, why would you why would
you just trust somebody that somebody said, oh, he's really
good. And then after watching a first
scene, not immediately think, OK, I need somebody else.
(26:25):
Yeah, yeah. And I sometimes it comes down to
being nice. But when it comes to this stuff
in business, you can't be nice. I just.
Started something you can't. Yeah, I started utilizing a man
holding the camera because I don't use anything other than
iPhones. But but, but I have a really
good camera guy that might be one of my best friends.
I started asking him to because I'm trying to differentiate the
everything I used to do was always static cameras.
(26:46):
And so I'm trying to do something different and use a
cameraman as as often as I can now.
And so he does a really good job.
He whenever I it's and there's so much easier to edit.
Oh my God, yeah, there's so mucheasier to edit.
So you've worked with a huge range of performers.
What do you think makes a scene truly great from a director's
point? Of view things, I think having
(27:07):
performers not be oversexed before, obviously, I know it
sounds like it's a given, but ifyou are a performer slash escort
or a fan site content creator and you show up to a scene where
you're going to get paid to do it or whatever the case might
be. Even if you show up to another
shoot after you've been spent byanother one, you can tell.
(27:30):
You can see that on camera. You can absolutely see it, and I
think that it doesn't make you look good, in my opinion.
Another thing that I think makesscene good is when the guys are
into each other, when they're really into each other, you can
tell the people that are like, OK, well, how much?
What's the pay rate? And I'm like, don't you want to
see who you're working with? Yeah, before I.
Get it? You know, like we all.
(27:51):
Yeah, of course we want to get paid, Sure.
But yeah, the guys are into it, which is, is great.
I've, I've, you know, knock on wood, I've had very, very good
luck with that in my, my porn career where guys are usually,
you know, like they'll tell me who they're into and I'm like,
OK, I know just a person. Boom, boom, boom.
And, and usually the back and forth is about 3 or 4 pictures.
(28:11):
I've only ever had a couple of people who, not to say they were
a pain in the ass, but you know,they know what they want.
They're very selective. Yeah.
You, you work with you work. Yeah, you work with that person
once and then you. Yeah, I can remember a few from
Rafa club days that I was like, oh, I'm done working with them
anymore. Yeah.
You go, you go start your own studio, yeah.
(28:32):
Exactly. No.
I've also been lucky with that and that I've been paired mostly
with people that I even when I was working with Raging Stallion
back in the day, they let me pick my scene partners back
then. I don't know if it was because I
was just so young and they were just being nice to me, but I was
18 when I started with Raging Stallion, so they were just
always really good to me. They let me pick almost every
scene partner. And my first visiting scene
partner, they let me pick him. Yeah.
(28:53):
So fucking beautiful. His name is Junior Stellano.
He was just Brooklyn, fucking just hot piece of meat.
And that was awesome. Sorry, brooding.
Italian. Yeah, exactly.
Brooding Italian yo. Yeah, that's exactly him.
He was so hot because you know, what happened was we filmed this
scene called for this video called Nailed and screwed, I
(29:13):
think, or is getting screwed or nailed and screwed.
And it was like he was fucking me.
And then I couldn't come. And so he just put his hand in
my ass and I shoot a load with his hand in my ass, which they
had to tightly crop because it wasn't a fisting movie.
And then after it was done, I was like, Oh my God.
OK, so now that I've gotten fisted on camera, I want to do
my first fisting scene and I want you to do it.
(29:34):
And so Chris Ward let me have him as my very cool.
Yeah. Anyways, so I know you've
transitioned into podcasting. Let's let's talk about
demystifying gay porn. Yeah, yeah.
So. What made you start the show and
how has it been for you steppingin front of a mic instead of
behind the camera? It's very it's a very the way I
can answer this question has evolved over the the amount of
(29:56):
time that I've been. It's almost six years at this
point. It started.
I was just interviewing, you know, I, when you meet models
and viewers are watching them for, you know, to get off and
for sex and stuff like that, that's amazing.
That's one aspect of them. But we're in the room with them.
We talk about art, we talk aboutpolitics, we talk about everyday
life, you know, what they're doing and their interests and
(30:16):
stuff. And I always thought that that
was very, very cool, especially the ones that are doing, you
know, this is just a part time thing for them or they just like
to have sex in front of people or in front of the camera.
And at first it was, you know, just talking to people that I
thought, OK, well, you have a very, very cool story.
Would you share that with with an audience?
And I didn't even know what kindof audience it would be.
The first, the first kind of waythat demystifying gay porn
(30:43):
before it was demystifying gay porn was coming about was Owen
Hawk had let me take a camera with me on shoots.
And in 20/18/2017 I was doing kind of like mini documentaries
of people and I lost a lot of good footage because one of our
hard drives failed. I had this amazing, just a
little really quick aside, I hadthis amazing story of Paul
(31:03):
Stagg. Do you know Paul Stagg?
So Paul Stagg? Yeah, I think so.
Yeah, from Treasure Island, but he's Auk based, awesome guy.
And I feel like, you know, he used to escort in the eight in
the 90s and he met many, many a Hollywood star.
And I will say this, he whatevernon disclosure agreement that he
had, he did not respect it one bit.
(31:26):
And I was like, and I was like, this is going to be amazing.
And then I lost it for each other.
But. Yeah.
So that kind of started getting me to into that direction.
And then I was hanging out with Champ Robinson one day and he's
like, you should start a park atpodcast.
And I was like, you know, I never thought about that.
So I started looking into it. Equipment became less expensive,
and I'm more of a visual guy. Audio.
(31:48):
Yeah. You know, you would put a
microphone or an audio device recorder on set just in case.
But I was never a really big audio guy.
So if you watch, it's also an audio visual podcast.
So if you watch from Season 1 toSeason 5, you could see the
evolution of what worked, what didn't.
At some point, I think I had, yeah, Season 3, I had headsets,
(32:10):
right? Kind of like Howard Stern has
for their guests. And it looked like they were
landing a plane, right? One of those those microphones
here because a lot of a lot of the models would move and they
would move and the microphone wouldn't follow them and you'd
get shoddy, shoddy, shoddy audio, shoddy O and yeah.
So I started, started adapting it into the history of gay
(32:30):
erotica because I thought, well,first and foremost, I had a lot
of a couple of situations with models flaking and doing stuff.
And it was after the pandemic and I, I, I wanted to, I wanted
something else from it. And I started thinking about the
fact that we are in an industry where you don't have to go to
school to do any of this stuff. You don't have to know the
history of it. You can just take your clothes
(32:51):
off in front of the camera and have sex and make one.
And I thought it was fascinatinglittle by little, finding out
what it took for us to actually get here.
And what it took was a lot of people going to jail in order to
preserve the rights that hopefully we will have, you
know, during this administration, but hopefully we
will have. They've endured over 50 years at
(33:13):
this point. But a lot of a lot of people
went to jail. A lot of people didn't put their
name on stuff because of the fact that they could they could
go to jail. They could face fines.
All of that stuff was so fascinating.
I go through the gambit of like maybe late 60s, early 70s and
season 4, all the while still talking to some models.
(33:34):
But once I got into it, I just, you know, I'm on season 4 right
now. It's been 2 years.
That's amazing. Yeah, it's it's longer than I
wanted it to be. However, I've learned a lot on
where I'm going to go for Season5.
In the season 5, it's going to be the 80s and stuff, but I know
it's it's kind of like gone fromhere and the scope of it is
going to be more and more concentrated.
(33:55):
I can't wait to listen to that. I didn't realize that that was
something you were doing. So I didn't know that because
I'm actually, this is, I have two podcasts.
I have Legends of Fisting and then Burlapse.
And so Legends is me interviewing the Trail Blazers
of the fisting community. And so it's I'm also, I'm also
interested in the history of where what it took to get to
where we are today. And so I think that's really
amazing that you're doing that. And yeah, just I love classic
(34:17):
porn. It's absolutely beautiful and
it's so cool to see how you knowthe Come Pop shot or the money
shot. That was something that was
created in the 80s, Yeah. Coming in the ass or coming at
all sometimes wasn't really something that people were were
looking into coming in the ass and breeding starting in like
(34:39):
the 90s. And that's something I'll touch
in the 90s. But because of the taboo of, you
know, a pre condom, condom and then post condom.
So it's. And I got a lot of catching up
to do. Yeah, no, I will send you, you
know the best place to see it because I have been able to go
through a lot of did a lot of research and by research, I mean
I watched a lot of porn from the70s.
(35:01):
It's it's really, really cool and I use a lot of it on
YouTube. And that's been another fight
too is because it's called I'm shortening it to DGP, but it's
called demons to find gay porn and everybody that knows it will
go on there and find it. But the minute I would put up a
video, it was automatically minimalized or not demonetized
per SE, but it had limited ads or limited audience.
I don't care per SE about the ads.
(35:23):
I don't care about the money aspect of it.
But The thing is, is attached with the money aspect is the
wider audience. So if you can get a wider
audience, that's that's basically what I want to do is
introduce people to the fact that in these, these records,
these video records, archival video records of people, it
shows gay people. It's a documentary of how people
(35:44):
lived life, culture, what they wore, cruising, all of that
stuff that people were doing in the 70s.
Yeah, much more honestly than Hollywood ever did.
If we watch movies from the 70s and the 80s, they're just making
fun of gay people. So that was my argument when I
had to appeal, when they took away monetization for for the
channel, I was like, I don't understand how you can do
(36:05):
something or, or you can watch something that's not grata.
They called it gratifying, right?
Or gratuitous sexual overtones and stuff.
And I was like, there's nothing.The only thing sexual is the
fact that it's dealing with gay erotica.
But I'm not showing it on on YouTube.
Yeah, I'm showing just enough. Have you covered erotic hands
yet? Not yet, Not yet that movie are
(36:28):
you? Are you talking about the
zoophilia movie or No erotic hands?
No erotic hands is 90s right? I think it's earlier than that.
It's I think it's 80s or or even70s, but erotic hands is I have
on my front door a screenshot framed from that movie.
OK. I always wonder what happened to
(36:48):
those guys because they were it was it was the first real
hardcore fisting video, first real fetish video that I think
really specifically about fisting.
And it was Bijou classics OK. Yeah.
Well, yeah, Bijou's, they've kind of the guy that that owns
Bijou kind of bought up a whole bunch of vintage titles per SE.
(37:09):
He distributed or distributes itnow, but he he's not necessarily
the person that shot it. OK.
But I will look it up. I feel like I have come across
it. Do you know Roger Earle?
No, Roger Earle, I think is somebody that he's still alive.
He's still in California, but very, very hard to reach.
He did a lot of stuff that was considered very, very hardcore
(37:30):
in the 70s. There was just, I'll never
forget there was a scene in Erotic Hands where this guy gets
fisted and then they wrap a beltaround his arm and he fits this
guy with the belt and then pullsthe belt off his arm while it's
still in the guy's ass. It was so intense.
So it was just, it was so like, I mean, did I just make you
play? I'm.
I'm visualizing. I'm a very visual person.
(37:50):
Yeah. He had a belt.
He like, wrapped this belt around his arm and then unpulled
the belt off when it was in the guy's butt.
It was pretty. It was, it was hot.
But that's really, I'm really impressed and I'm really happy
for you that you found. I don't know if it's, if you're
anything like me that this is giving me a different kind of
gratification than filming content.
Absolutely. It's like it's make, it's, it's
(38:11):
like, it makes me feel like I'm sharing stories from people that
otherwise wouldn't have a platform to tell their story.
And so this focus is mostly on the kink and fetish fetish side
of the industry, But it's, everybody has an interesting
story. Everybody's story has been so
unique and so different. I'm, it can only shoot so much.
I filmed 7 or 800 porn scenes with myself.
And so it's at a certain point I'm kind of just, oh man,
(38:33):
another one. But this has been such a breath
of fresh air for me. Yeah, same.
I feel the same way. I've been doing this for almost
20 years behind the camera and at a certain point I still enjoy
it. I enjoy it.
However, I'm very selective withwho I'm going to shoot with now
because I don't want to waste mytime.
I don't want to make a bad scene.
If you got a bad scene while you're there after putting it
(38:54):
all together, shit happens. But I try my best not.
And you do what you do the best that you can without having to
add dialogue or anything. There's, there's a time and
place for that stuff. But I know I find this very,
very gratifying for me because Iget to do stuff.
I come from a documentary background too.
I get to research and find people and find their books and
(39:15):
find how they were living and put it together on video.
And it's it's a labor of love atthe moment.
Doesn't need to be bigger. Yeah, sure.
But does it do I want it to be sure, but it doesn't have to be
like I like the audience that I have now.
So just to get back to or to wrap that, that that question
up. I I absolutely, I enjoy it.
I love reminiscing and sharing with people and you know, just
(39:38):
seeing how good we have it rightnow.
You know, like these people watch movies and going to
movies. The people that are reminiscing
on retro or vintage porn, watching movies that they
haven't seen since the theaters and getting the background of
it, that's really, really cool. Yeah, because there's a
generation of people that, I mean, there's a whole
generation, generations of people who don't know where.
(40:00):
The roots came from and without them doing what they did, we
wouldn't have it the way we haveit today.
So it's really important to tellthose stories.
I think it's so good on you since you cover such a broad
range of topics on your show, not just fetish.
You've had me on the show, so you've got some.
You've got a wide range of guys on the show.
So what do you think are some ofthe biggest misconceptions that
(40:21):
people have about porn stars or about the industry in general?
I mean, the easiest answers thatwere dirty, uneducated.
Those are two big misconceptions.
I, you know, I'm, I won't lie, Igo on.
If I see a job that I, I'm very interested in, I go on job hunts
(40:42):
and I've been on a couple And the minute they, they find out
because I don't lie, you know, I, I pretty much tell them this
is what I do. I even get into doors like
sometimes when it's on my resumeand then I don't get it because
they say, well, you work in the down into the industry and it's
like this is a multi billion dollar industry.
So I respect this industry more than I respect the
(41:04):
Pharmaceutical industry per SE or the food industry per SE or
the FT like certain things that.It's mostly honest.
Yes, exactly. We are selling sex with sex.
Every other industry, be it the movie industry, be like
Hollywood. And some they sell.
They sell you something, but they use sex to sell it to you.
And then we're The Dirty ones. We're the people, we're the
awful people that are that are, you know, that's the least you
(41:26):
can do, you know, so. And to be a successful person in
the industry, you can't be, you have to be a hard worker.
You have to be to be successful,to make a name for yourself to
you have to hustle, you have to work.
And it's in people you know don't realize it's a job.
And well, that's why, that's whyyou see such a like, I love them
when people are like, oh, I'm going to start an only fans page
(41:47):
and I'm like, do you have any industry experience?
Oh, but you know, I'm like, OK, good luck.
I do. I wish them, I wish them nothing
but the best. But you know, they're going to
be casting. Yeah, they're going to be
casting. They have to get their
equipment. They got a good cameraman.
They got it. They got to do everything.
And then they have to edit. The worst thing, anybody I
always hear, oh, I got to edit. I love editing.
(42:08):
Me too. Yeah.
But but yeah, when you know whatyou're doing, when it comes,
when you know you're shooting toedit, it makes it that much
easier. Yeah, editing is some of my
favorite stuff. I mean, it's just like I get to
go back and relive the moment. It makes something really,
really cool. I get excited when it's a cool
piece of content that I'm excited for people to see this.
For example, what was I going tosay?
(42:31):
Well, and that's what those are really good.
I mean, the fact that we're dirty and uneducated.
I mean, that's I know that for my experience, I mean, I guess
still get judgements from the people that I went to high
school with, like, you know, I still get, you know, I know that
they still talk about, but I'm like, I traveled the world.
Yep. Same thing.
I bought a house with my butt hole.
Like, same thing. Same thing.
(42:52):
And I, I would rather do this even wherever I go, after
wherever it brings me and stuff.I would rather do this than be a
politician. I'd rather do this than be just
anything where you're going to blatantly lie to people.
And that's basically what we live in is, you know, yeah, a
world of blatant lies. And then here we are presenting
(43:14):
the most, the most truth that you can.
Right. Because, yeah, one of the, I
think one of the hardest things to do is probably have sex in
front of the camera and stuff. Yeah.
At least, you know, shame wise or person wise, yeah.
I feel like my last two questions, the two questions
that I was going to ask, you've already kind of answered them
already. So, but I mean, I'll ask this
last one. What are you most excited about
(43:35):
working on these days? Is it the podcast directing or
what is your what's your passionproject right now?
So I'm actually on the side working on a documentary that
that on a music documentary thatI've I've been trying to do for
the past almost 10 years at thispoint.
So that's going to happen. But that's that's happening on
the side that makes me happy. I absolutely love the podcast.
(43:56):
If I can spend full time workingon it, I would.
But I, I do, I love directing still and I have a couple of
projects. I still got a good, I think I
got a good what is it? I would say a good five years
left before I'm like, OK, well, you know, I can transition to
something else. But there's still a lot of
projects that I want to do because it's one thing to direct
a scene or scenes the way I have, but I do want to add
(44:18):
another element to it. Not feature per SE, but because
we have done that before in the past with Death Drive and stuff
I want to do. I do a couple of other projects
that kind of not necessarily go mainstream, but are a little
more than softcore. That's it.
Not hardcore, not softcore. A little more gravity.
Accessible. Yeah.
(44:38):
OK. I don't know you just you just
you mentioned Howard Stern earlier.
Did you, did you know that I gotmy first one-on-one with them?
Yeah. Yeah.
Oh, yeah, I have the, I found the well, I found the audio, but
I would love to have, I'm tryingto find every single time that
you've been on it. Do they give you a copy of that?
No, they don't. But it was it was April Fool's
Day. It took almost dying to get on
(44:59):
the show with him one-on-one live because it was like after
my perforation, he was like he wanted to talk to me.
And I opened the show for like 35 minutes with Howard.
Wow. OK, I didn't know that.
Yeah, I didn't know that. That's awesome.
OK, so I have to find that interview.
He was actually super cool with me and it was April 1st.
So if you have serious April 1st, it's it was it was pretty,
(45:21):
pretty crazy. He's like Robin still always
gives me a hard time, but however, it's pretty cool.
So OK, so where can people find more about you online and check
out debissifying gay porn? Like where are you streaming
these days? You can find demystifying gay
porn wherever you get your podcasts, OK?
Do you know? However, you Mr. Fine
gayporn.com. I'm on YouTube if you are
(45:44):
interested in watching it because like I said, it's an
audio visual podcast. Even before it was, there were
like many documentaries we wouldinterview kind of like what
we're doing here. You see the people and how they
move and how they interact. So that's on YouTube, like and
subscribe. That's always very, very
important. Yeah.
And anywhere you get your podcast, I want XI want sub
(46:05):
stack anywhere, Anywhere people listen to me, I'm still not on
Reddit. Figure out.
I got to figure Reddit out. Do you know Reddit?
Out there. I mean, like, Reddit knows me.
You just see the comments about my arrest, dude.
OK, Yeah, no, my police report is on fucking Reddit with like
600 comments about it, so yeah, OK.
(46:26):
We got to, we got to catch up outside of this on top of that.
I got arrested. It was Oh my God, it's a
bullshit story. I'll save it for afterwards.
But yeah. So you guys, this has been
episode 50 Hunger FF presents prolapse.
Thank you for listening. We are on Apple, Amazon, Spotify
and YouTube. New episodes go live on
(46:47):
hungerff.com and just for fans slash hunger FF on Friday
nights, audio on all platforms Friday night at 8:00 PM.
Again, I can't get on day. I can't roll my Rs.
But hey. Yeah.
Thank you so much for coming on.I really appreciate your time
and we'll talk soon. OK.
Yeah, pleasure. Have a good one.
Cheers. Bye guys.
Thanks for going deep with me onHunger FF presents roll ups.
(47:09):
If you're loving the ride, hit subscribe, drop a review and
share the fisting love. Follow me on social media at
Hunger FF for unfiltered updatesand exclusive content.
But until next time, keep it raw, real and always hungry.
I'll see you on the next episode.
Welcome to Brolapse, the fistingpodcast that goes deep explore
my life, views and raw, unfiltered conversations with
the creators that are redefiningkink connection in the fisting
community. Hey guys, we're back for another
episode of Brolapse. This is episode 50 and I have a
guest today on the show that I'msuper excited to have Aikid
Grande. If this if I say that correctly,
(00:21):
that are OK for people who mightnot know you.
We, we go way back, probably it was pre pandemic, it was like
2018-2019. I feel like I probably met you.
And so we work together at Raw Fuck Club.
You taught me a lot about cameraand just being a little grip
(00:42):
assistant to you on some crazy shoots.
And then we work together on a little project for, for the site
and when my site launched and everything.
It's which has been really cool to get to know you over the
years and I'm really grateful tohave you on the show.
So thank you. Thank you so much.
And likewise, honestly, Mr. Danvers, why?
Why Real quick, 'cause you brought that up that that is
(01:04):
still on the back burner. I didn't know how to proceed
with it. Our little project, the one that
we went and now you're relaunching the website or you
relaunched the website. So so.
I think a good catch up would would be necessary at some
point. I finally figured out what to do
and that's kind of where the podcast where I am with
demystifying geek porn has gone OK, but it took like it's, it's
(01:24):
pretty much on the timeline. The sequence is done and I was
like, OK, well where does this fit in?
How do I do this? I'm excited.
I mean, like, I, I didn't bring that up in a way to be like,
what happened to that? No, I know, I know.
I remember one of the things that you said that I am very big
on to you is you had mentioned once you put it out there or
once it's done, that means it has to go out.
(01:45):
And I'm, I'm very much like thattoo.
So it's, it's done. It's, it's been, it's been
produced or we recorded it. It's on a timeline and it's
going to have a release. Date I'll never forget.
Hey, Janet. Yeah, no, I, I, I'll, you know,
if anything, I'll send you a rough cut just so you can see
where, where I put everything. You know, it was, it was going
(02:07):
to be like an hour long, but then eventually I was like,
maybe it should be 20 minutes. I've got some inspiration from
Vice because I like what they doon their, on their YouTube
channel. So it's been to us back and
forth as to how to handle. It awesome I.
Trust. Footage, I trust you inherently.
I mean, I'm sure it's going to be whatever you make.
I'm sure it's going to be awesome.
Yeah. And then I'll share with you and
you can put it up on your platform.
(02:27):
That'll be super exciting, superexciting.
I've got, I've got some other cool news to tell you too, but
I'm going to start first with you.
So how did you get started in the porn industry?
I know you've got a funny story how it started.
Yeah. Well, I mean, I was working for
a Spanish Spanish channel that was coming here from Puerto
Rico, and I was going to be their production coordinator.
And that wasn't panning out the way it was supposed to.
(02:51):
It was delaying. So I went on Craigslist, which
was all the rage back then. And I, I saw a job opening for
video editor. And I was like, OK.
And then it just happened to be a gay porn company.
And I showed up to this office in Jersey City, NJ, where you
wouldn't suspect that people would be shooting gay porn or
editing gay porn. And there I met Mattias von
(03:12):
Fistenberg and I met Owen Hawk. And they wanted to make sure
that I knew that it was a gay porn company.
And I was, I was very well aware.
And they, they put me on almost immediately right after.
That's amazing. Yeah.
It's, I mean, there's a lot moreto it.
I know the video editor that I was replacing was there and he
was the one in charge of giving me the footage to edit.
(03:32):
I had an hour to edit all of this stuff.
And I, I, I didn't complete it because you need, I think it was
2 camera set up and you need like an hour to look at the
footage before you can actually figure it out.
Yeah. And I feel like I was kind of
set up for failure. But when I explained that, I
think they gave me a little moretime and I kind of put together
like the trailer and. Awesome.
(03:53):
And then from there, yeah. OK, there's a story though that
the first video that they had you edit was something really
extreme. Triple F or.
Sex crime? Was it sex crimes or was it
triple F? No Sex Crimes is 2 thousand 2012
OK Triple F was a studio that wewere doing called Pine Pork
Studio and it was based out of Europe.
(04:14):
You edited that movie. Yeah, I look, I come from a
pharmaceutical video background.And when I saw that, I was just
like, oh, OK, this is interesting.
I I watched it from a different perspective.
So it didn't really have an effect on me or the effect that
you would think it would have onon somebody that's not into it.
You know, it's not, it's not my thing, but I can, I can sit
(04:36):
there and I can edit it because I'm looking at it from a
technical aspect. But I, I, I ended up adding a
new trailer for them and I thinkI just kind of, it was my first
week there and I wanted to really impress someone.
I put together this trailer and they were like, wow, this is
amazing. But I spent like a day on it
now. I added trailers in 30 minutes.
Yeah I know, my trailers are like I literally just cut
through to find the best groups of like 5.
(04:57):
Seconds. Yeah, I'll give you a little, I
don't know if you do this, but because you're editing your own
stuff too, but one of the biggest or the best secret side
I would, I would say is while you're while you're looking at
your footage, just pull out the clip and then put it on top on a
second sequence. I'm not sure if you do that yet
or not. I haven't done that yet, but I
it's amazing. When I dated Will Angel, he did
the same thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
(05:17):
It's the best way to. Then you you go back and you
sweep and you just put that on adifferent timeline and maybe I
can. Pick your brain a little bit
later, too, because like my I, Ifeel like the trailer style
today is so different. The way that trailers are edited
together, They're so quick, like, you know.
You crossfade that that's that'sI just learned how to edit
crossfade, though, you know that, right?
(05:38):
Like it's a it's great. It's taught on and people love
it, but I think it's so lazy. I I, it's it, but whatever, you
know, it's fine. It's either that or a jump cut
or, you know, nobody goes nobody.
Have you noticed like there's noamazing crossfades anymore
because those transitions are onAdobe Premiere and nobody has
Adobe Premiere in my opinion. I can unless.
Are you editing on it? That's perfect.
(06:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But The thing is, is we we've
we've gotten to the point where all we do is use crossfades.
We don't use the elaborate transitions or you don't see
them on on Twitter a lot or on XA lot because, you know, all
these guys aren't learning how to edit their stuff on on the
software that's made for that. If anything cap cut or something
on their phone or. Yeah.
(06:20):
And I, I, I only use Adobe Premiere, so yeah.
And so, but Adobe products I feel are so scary at first when
you first see them. Oh my God, there's 10,000
fucking options. There's so much to look at.
And then once you kind of get the hang of 1 Adobe program, I
feel they all become a little bit easier to use.
(06:40):
And so it's like, yeah, So that's.
Kind of. Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't.
No go. Ahead, go ahead, go ahead, go
ahead. But.
That's how that's kind of how I feel about Final Cut Pro.
The when they did the major overhaul in like 2012, I was
like I don't want to work on this and luckily didn't work on
it for like 5 years because thatupgrade didn't support DVD
Studio Pro and Dark Alley and Raw Fuck love in every studio.
(07:04):
At the time we're still making DVDs.
Yeah. So we didn't upgrade our stuff
until like 2018 and by that point I was already working on
Premiere. OK, so you.
Which is what I learned. I learned how to work.
Do you edit on Premiere now still?
Yeah, yeah. Cool.
I went back to basics. That's basically how I learned
how to edit college. Then I got out and everybody was
using Apple products, and then all of a sudden Premier came
(07:25):
back in. Yeah.
And I've experimented with AfterEffects.
I taught myself a little bit of After Effects too and that shit
is complicated as fuck. No?
Get a tutorial, get have have some 12 year old on YouTube
teach you how to edit with aftereffects.
Yeah. No, I mean, I, I usually just
get a template and then just follow the directions and and it
turns into something really cool.
(07:45):
So, yeah, so let's let's talk about when we work together at
RFC. You taught me a lot about camera
work, my field kind of mentoringunder you for several shoots.
I remember when I met you, I wasso nervous there.
Lewis is coming. Lewis is coming.
And I was OK. I mean, I could get on these
coming. I could go.
Everybody calls me. Everybody calls me Louis on set.
It's. OK, cool.
So I remember being nervous and then we were vibed like right
(08:07):
away. So what?
What drew you to the technical side of porn production?
How did you go from editing to filming?
I was always was always a filmer.
I enjoyed doing that, but I had to get, I had to be, I had to
build some kind of credibility before I actually did that with
Matt and with with Owen. And I knew how to do camera
work. I always did it on the side and
(08:27):
stuff. And then I went from editing to
production coordinating and thenfrom production coordinating to
shooting. And all those aspects were stuff
that I did in either previous jobs or, or at school.
So I pretty much knew how to do it and I don't know, I really, I
really liked liked what I had a very healthy relationship with
porn and I still do, and too healthy sometimes.
(08:48):
You kind of have to have a healthy relationship with porn
if you work in porn. Yeah, you do, You do.
And for a while, you know, for the first two years I was like,
what is it abstinent? My my sex life was porn, my job.
And it was really hard for me tokind of get into it.
But at that point X2 was coming out and that was a turn on to
me, the idea of like, you know, amateurs doing all this stuff
(09:08):
and, you know, amateur is very different than the fan sites
that we have today. But.
Yeah, which is sort of depressing for me a little bit.
I really loved the Wild West eraof just for fans when it was
straight up amateur all the time.
And now it's become mini porn studios.
Everybody's a mini porn studio. And so and they shoot at a porn
studio with lighting and cameraman.
(09:30):
And so it's, it's, it's the the purpose of what I think the, the
thing that made fan sites special is now reverting back to
the studio model, which we were all trying to get away trying
to. Escape and the model that
everybody's trying to escape, The thing is, is whenever money
gets involved, everything gets money.
And you know, you can't fall everybody for trying to make
(09:50):
their money. But when you show up to the gay
VN's or something and you're meeting somebody and they have
20 shoots in two days, yeah, I can't imagine how much fun that
is. You know, I don't envy that.
No, I I'm like a A2 shoot a day person maximum.
If I if I and I don't know, it'sjust my body can't handle more
(10:11):
than that. I'm almost 40 and I'm tired.
I'm like one shoot a day. I'm good.
I'm like. What will you do is art.
I mean that's that is it's. It's taxing on my body and
especially now with what happened to me, I'm so I mean
like I've been. Following.
Yeah, so my accident happened and it's but I mean, I have an
amazing surgeon and I can still do all the same even with the
(10:32):
injury, I can still do all the same things that I have done in
the past. So it's pretty, pretty cool.
So and. He was on your podcast too.
Dude, my biggest episode ever was the episode of Oh yeah, my
surgeon was on the podcast. Yes, yeah, but my biggest
episode ever was the episode about my accident.
Really twice it's over. I mean, just it's twice as much
as episode the second most popular episode.
(10:54):
There were so many people that listened to that episode in my
my traffic when that episode aired quite quadrupled and then
stayed at that level going forward.
So I was kind of a blessing in disguise.
It definitely, definitely helpedbring, you know, awareness to
the show, which was which was kind of cool.
So. You've.
You've worked with huge studios like Raw Funk Club and Treasure
Island. What was that experience like
(11:16):
for you, especially since you weren't necessarily coming at it
from a fetish or kink perspective?
Because both studios can kind ofbe a little fetishy.
Yeah, I'm reminded of that by people.
Sometimes I'll read comments andoh, he comes from the dirtiest
studios. And I'm like, OK, well, I mean,
just as the studios are dirty doesn't mean I have to be dirty.
I do. I come from it.
I'm not going to lie to you. When I first started doing this,
(11:38):
it was a means to an end. It was just a cool means to an
end. I was still making documentaries
and still having projects on theside.
However, this was a way to make some money, pay some bills and
afford a lifestyle that allows me to to make other projects.
And that doesn't mean that I didn't put as much as I could
into them. And there's just something about
(11:58):
watching it and little by little, as you start watching
how people are having sex in front of you, you take that and
you combine it with the best things that you love about gay
porn or porn in general. And you get, you get a good
scene. But it's just, it's, it's, it's
like shooting narrative. It's just, you know, people
aren't talking, they're just having sex.
So it's very similar. It's not easy.
(12:20):
I don't think everybody can do it, you know, just 'cause you
hold a camera. I always say there's.
I don't even know if you remember this, but there was a
scene, I don't know if you were filming it with me or Matt was
filming it with me, but it was like poor guys and they were all
trying to come and they were allin different corners of the room
eating off by themselves. And then one of them would have
to come. They'd have to run back to the
center and pretend like they were fucking.
And I don't know if that was youthat filling out with me, but I
(12:44):
just that memory sticks out of my brain as just that.
Sounds like Mathias to me. OK.
You know, you know, I, I think that, you know, the last thing
you want to do is stress anybodyout on set, especially if they
have to come and stay hard and all that fun stuff.
Oh my God, It was just funny. I'll just, I'll never forget
just looking at every corner of the room and there was this guy
jerking off in each corner and like, yeah, be like, I gotta
(13:06):
come. And they come running back to
the center. Everybody and everybody's in
their head, they have their thing either on a phone or
watching porn or they're, you know, playing with nipples or
it's, it's it's fascinating. It's fascinating.
It's it is. Yeah.
Yeah. Honestly, bottom line is I try
to do the best with what I'm given or what studio I'm working
(13:27):
with and I try to please them asmuch as I can.
And I think I've done a good jobwhen it comes to felching and
fisting and stuff like that. I can see it and be like, that's
amazing, good for you. But it's just, you know, it's
definitely not something that's in my wheelhouse.
Like wow, physical wheelhouse. Sure, because you filmed a
couple of fisting scenes, didn'tyou?
Yeah, absolutely. No, I filmed so I got to Dark
(13:49):
Alley before fisting Underground3.
OK, which was, you know, their biggie at the time.
I edited 25th weekend, which youremained very, very, very, very
cleverly and stylistically was awesome.
Yeah. And so I edited those films and
yes, I've edited a couple or I've, I've shot a couple of
films or scenes. And while it's happening, I'm
(14:12):
not really thinking like, oh wow, there's a hand going in the
butt. I'm more thinking, OK, well,
make sure you get this angle andmake sure it looks a certain way
so I can shoot it. I can absolutely shoot it and
not have a problem with it. If anything, I was always scared
when I first started because because I'm not in that world, I
don't know if I'm providing a safe space for the people that
are doing it. So that's the only thing that
(14:32):
would kind of streaked me out a little bit, a little bit.
And then eventually, little by little, I was like, OK, well,
you have to ask the right questions before someone's like,
I want to get fisted on camera, you know, like, is it your first
time? Yeah.
Exactly. Exactly.
And you can always tell when they are.
It's that was always kind of my gripe with with Matt, and I'll
probably edit this part out, buthe would always just want the
most beautiful men together, regardless of whether they were
(14:55):
fisters or not. And I was like, yeah, you can
tell that they have no idea whatthey're doing.
Like I'd rather. It's OK, OK action.
Exactly. Oh my God, it's OK.
He would be like, I would bring him models that were like really
handsome, like handsome to me and like we're big in the
industry. And he'd be like, no, no, I'm
like, OK, so let me just find the next steroid muscle queen I
(15:15):
can find and then we'll put her.What's the last person you want
on Santa Taking the fist? Yeah, so it was funny.
So I we work together on gangbang proposal, right?
That was you and me. For people that don't know or
don't remember, The Gangbang Proposal was a movie where Brian
Bonds proposed to Mason Lear at the end of a gangbang and I had
the ring in my pocket for the whole shoot.
(15:36):
What do you remember about putting that production
specifically together? Because that was pretty big
media thing. It was all over the place.
That was like one of the first, remember when like Twitter
started blowing up with, with porn stars and stuff and or
underground Twitter, you know, because there's, there's the
real Twitter and then there's our Twitter.
But yeah, that was, yeah, no, that got a lot, hundreds of
thousands of views. My recollection is that was a
(15:58):
Nick Moretti film, and you, I think.
I don't think so because Nick was I was Nicks replacement.
Did I think Nick put it togetherthough?
Oh, OK. I remember, I remember walking
into that, they flew me down because I was going to shoot it.
Oh yeah, that's when we were. Going to be second camp.
OK, OK. And I think that's the first day
we met. We walked it.
(16:18):
I think I got off a plane. I went to Matt's apartment and I
was at the studio and we were going to shoot this gangbang
proposal. And I think I told you to
concentrate on faces and when I'm in the shot, just get
another shot and all that fun stuff.
But yeah, I remember, I didn't know that you were Nick's
replacement, but I thought you were brought on as casting Nick.
(16:40):
Nick, whatever Nick was, Nick was casting and Nick was doing,
I was, I was a replacement for part of what he was responsible
for. OK, so.
Yeah, it was not his replacementin general, but it was like he
left. Matt hired me from X2.
I remember. That.
I was just on X2 and so and Mattand I got a message from
Matthias von Fistenberg and I was like, what?
(17:03):
And so and then he offered me a job.
So that was pretty cool. Yeah, well, that's cool.
Those were all, and I've worked at Brian, I've worked at Mason
before and stuff, but those are predominantly Knicks models.
That's that's why I remember that.
I remember that vividly because of the fact of that.
I was a great shoot though. I mean, even with that being the
case, getting there and kind of not directing, but telling the
(17:25):
giving them a template of what they're going to do.
So that way we're working with them, but we're not getting in
their way. Yeah, that was a lot of fun.
I think that's a. Lot of guys.
That went smoothly too, for the amount of guys that we had in
their own. I remember that was one of my
first times doing camera for Raw.
Fuck club. And I was like, there's so many
people. Yeah, yeah.
Now crazy. It's it's nuts.
(17:46):
I was glad. I was glad that you were there.
I was glad. And you were.
Yeah, you were so cool. So.
OK, good. Yeah, you, you made that
experience a lot of fun. It sort of sounds to me the more
where you talk about the stuff that raw fuck club has a
tendency to throw people in the deep end like.
Yeah, here you go, you know, absolutely, absolutely.
But I think, I think raw fuck club, I think, and we're allowed
(18:07):
to talk about all this stuff, which is amazing.
There's no claw. I have no claws, no anything.
But looking back, like Rafa club, just like anything, it was
just a couple guys. It was a couple guys, some kind
of, they kind of know what they were doing, but they did it well
and they showed, they showed it well.
Or they or they, they had good face.
Yeah. But yeah, behind the scenes it
was. It was crazy.
(18:32):
People don't know that, but I mean like.
When? I came in, yeah, lovingly a big
mess. When I came in and I organized
the 2257 folder, I was like, what is this?
What is happening here? So.
But that was wild. Yeah.
I have so many, so many good memories from that time and so
many just, you know, tragic memories.
(18:54):
Yeah. Will you tell me what?
Go on, go on. Getting fired on Christmas,
being replaced on Christmas Day for no reason.
It was like this is bullshit. Yeah, Merry Christmas to you
too. Or Hawk.
Yeah, I I think there's there's a lot of things that that kind
of didn't in hindsight. You look at it and you're like,
OK, well, that was, that was pretty Dick.
Like there's a lot of things forno reason other than, OK, well,
(19:17):
we were probably in the way. Yeah.
It's which sucks, but. Yeah it sucks I wish no ill will
I still kind of I well I we knowthe whole thing that happened in
October with RFC channels yeah yeah and I watch on X.
You know this this amazing storyplay out and I'm like.
Did you see my reply? No.
(19:38):
No, I didn't. Wait, wait, wait.
I may have. Was it very?
Was it very incendiary? Yes.
I saw it. I saw.
I was like re put you so bitch like.
I remember, I remember. I was so just because I was just
sitting there because I rememberthinking to myself, you swim
with sharks, you're going to geteaten.
(19:59):
And so when he got eaten, I was like.
You were swimming with a shark. What did you expect was going to
happen? There's blood in the water.
Like you're, you know, whatever.So, yeah, it was, there was.
I don't usually involve myself in Twitter drama because I feel
that's a really great way to getyour Twitter account deleted.
You start saying things that are, that can be misconstrued as
insults or whatever, you know, but I was careful with how I
(20:20):
said it. But I just, I know I his.
I struck a nerve. Yeah, I can imagine.
I I saw that and I saw the stateof be it who it is.
I saw the state of somebody thatwas like a brother and they both
are, you know, they they both, they both are have were really,
really cool to me. And it's kind of like when when
you're in a relationship, you know people for 13 years, you
(20:41):
don't just I mean, you can stop talking to them or stop seeing
them all the time, but it still doesn't take away from the fact
that you've known people for a certain amount of time, right.
Personally, you know, intimately, not like, you know,
sexually intimately, like like abond, let's say.
And when I saw some video responses, I was like, this
person needs a friend. Like, and you know, I know, I
(21:03):
know how it all rolled out and everything, but even if it's
just say, Hey, I hope you're OK.And that's, that's kind of
where, where it's been. Yeah, I don't want to, I don't
want to pivot into this topic too much because I mean, I'm
hanging, you know, I just say that I'm hanging in there,
hanging by a thread, but I'm still got the thread hanging.
So it's, you know, it's I've gotdid you know I wrote a book?
No. Yeah.
So. OK.
(21:26):
Wow, that's beautiful. So this is so I've got a
tentative hopefully one day I'm chatting with my dream publisher
about publishing the book and it's coming out hopefully in
2027. Very cool.
Yeah. And it's it's, it's a full,
that's my latest. That's the thing I'm pivoting to
right now that I've been spending a lot of time working
on. It's from all the way from when
(21:47):
I was childhood stuff to 1st getting into the porn industry,
learning from Matt and Rafa Club, my experiences there, and
then into hunger, FF and all theinsane, insane shit that I've
done in my life since then. So it's really exciting.
That's been what I've been pouring my energy into that in
this podcast, so. I would love to read it if you
(22:10):
have a digital or sample copy that I can.
Yeah, it's still in the editing phase like this is, it's still
it's, but it's, it's fun. It's it's, I'm really proud of
it. So go ahead, you should be.
It's not easy to write a book. Congratulations.
Thank you. Thank you.
Yeah. It took roughly a year to finish
it up and there to get to. I've been working on it for
roughly about a year. And so just to know that it's
(22:31):
kind of around the corner to being actually in a fucking
Barnes and Noble hopefully one day, yeah, it's pretty exciting.
So. I have.
You know, I've been inundating myself with collection.
I don't know if you can see it back here, but there there is
like a collection of of books, rare, unique, like very hard to
find books about the porn industry, about porn models and
(22:53):
stuff. So I do know a couple of
publishers, Sindelman and Company is 1.
I'll give you a list of a couplethat are doing stuff.
OK. A lot of them are are photo
books. But The thing is, is they deal
with, they'll get you the right audience before, you know, going
into a bigger audience, you know?
So yeah, I'll, I'll send you a couple of them.
So do you think that the outsider perspective, filming
(23:16):
from the eyes of somebody who's not necessarily into the fetish
specifically, gave you a different style or way of
capturing it? Yes and no.
I think honestly my style I attribute to 20.
What is it 20? Yeah, like 20 years of yoga in
my opinion. 20 years of yoga. 20years of yoga movement at least
(23:36):
because OK, cool, I am behind the camera, every single camera
that we've had. I mean, when I was younger, I
don't think that I realized whatI was doing.
But now, especially as I get older, as you know, you move
with intention. There's definitely, I see the
correlation between that. So I think that absolutely
helps. I think the fact that I
understand that while people arehaving sex in front of me,
(23:58):
that's not particularly my time.What I'm there to do is capture
them, have sex. That helps too, because, you
know, working for a certain amount of companies you see or
you've heard or you, yeah, you, you kind of see some people.
Predatory. Yeah, yeah.
And, and that's not cool. I mean, if the people are cool
(24:19):
with it and everything, great. But I've been on set and, you
know, models touch you. And I, look, I'm flattered,
beautiful man. But The thing is, is that this
is not what I'm here for. I'm here to do my job.
You're here to do your job. Let's just get a good scene, get
paid and go home. Yeah.
So I attribute yoga and and the fact that it's it's their time
in that space and not providing a space and I'm going to make
(24:40):
them look as good as they let memake them.
Yeah, awesome. That's great.
And I do remember your movement style.
I, I learned a lot from you and I took a lot from you, from
watching you in those the couplemonths that we got to work
together. When I do camera, you know,
what's always funny for me is that when I do camera work for
other people, I'm always like, damn, it's good.
Like and like and then I and then they do camera work for me
(25:01):
and it's time to flip and they do the camera for and I'm like.
I know, I know it's so, it's, soit sucks, but everybody has
their own style. Everybody has the way they do
stuff. And you can teach somebody and
I've, I've had, I've taught a couple of people and, and they
are, they're great, you know, the steady camera and all that
stuff. But it's kind of like I forgot
who I was talking to. I was talking to Champ because
(25:22):
Champ used to follow me around for Raphael Club for a while too
before he started. Robinson.
And Robinson, yeah, before he started his company, he was, he
came around, he didn't get paid.He would just, he wanted to
learn how to do this stuff. And there were times where even
now I see some of his stuff and I'm like, who's your camera gal?
And I correct myself, am I? Who's the guy holding the camera
(25:43):
or holding the phone? Because there's a cameraman and
then there's just a man holding the phone.
And there's a big difference between those two.
And if you find yourself with somebody who you can see like
you know, you know a good performer when they're looking
at the camera, you know, and they're opening up to the camera
and stuff, if the camera guy is not paying attention, you get
yourself a good camera guy. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Was that because was this? Was the camera work not good on
(26:05):
the stuff? OK.
For Yeah, for I think he had, hehad somebody in Atlanta pick up
for him. And I watched some of the stuff
and I was like, listen, you know, for, for the amount of
work that you put into this stuff, why would you why would
you just trust somebody that somebody said, oh, he's really
good. And then after watching a first
scene, not immediately think, OK, I need somebody else.
(26:25):
Yeah, yeah. And I sometimes it comes down to
being nice. But when it comes to this stuff
in business, you can't be nice. I just.
Started something you can't. Yeah, I started utilizing a man
holding the camera because I don't use anything other than
iPhones. But but, but I have a really
good camera guy that might be one of my best friends.
I started asking him to because I'm trying to differentiate the
everything I used to do was always static cameras.
(26:46):
And so I'm trying to do something different and use a
cameraman as as often as I can now.
And so he does a really good job.
He whenever I it's and there's so much easier to edit.
Oh my God, yeah, there's so mucheasier to edit.
So you've worked with a huge range of performers.
What do you think makes a scene truly great from a director's
point? Of view things, I think having
(27:07):
performers not be oversexed before, obviously, I know it
sounds like it's a given, but ifyou are a performer slash escort
or a fan site content creator and you show up to a scene where
you're going to get paid to do it or whatever the case might
be. Even if you show up to another
shoot after you've been spent byanother one, you can tell.
(27:30):
You can see that on camera. You can absolutely see it, and I
think that it doesn't make you look good, in my opinion.
Another thing that I think makesscene good is when the guys are
into each other, when they're really into each other, you can
tell the people that are like, OK, well, how much?
What's the pay rate? And I'm like, don't you want to
see who you're working with? Yeah, before I.
Get it? You know, like we all.
(27:51):
Yeah, of course we want to get paid, Sure.
But yeah, the guys are into it, which is, is great.
I've, I've, you know, knock on wood, I've had very, very good
luck with that in my, my porn career where guys are usually,
you know, like they'll tell me who they're into and I'm like,
OK, I know just a person. Boom, boom, boom.
And, and usually the back and forth is about 3 or 4 pictures.
(28:11):
I've only ever had a couple of people who, not to say they were
a pain in the ass, but you know,they know what they want.
They're very selective. Yeah.
You, you work with you work. Yeah, you work with that person
once and then you. Yeah, I can remember a few from
Rafa club days that I was like, oh, I'm done working with them
anymore. Yeah.
You go, you go start your own studio, yeah.
(28:32):
Exactly. No.
I've also been lucky with that and that I've been paired mostly
with people that I even when I was working with Raging Stallion
back in the day, they let me pick my scene partners back
then. I don't know if it was because I
was just so young and they were just being nice to me, but I was
18 when I started with Raging Stallion, so they were just
always really good to me. They let me pick almost every
scene partner. And my first visiting scene
partner, they let me pick him. Yeah.
(28:53):
So fucking beautiful. His name is Junior Stellano.
He was just Brooklyn, fucking just hot piece of meat.
And that was awesome. Sorry, brooding.
Italian. Yeah, exactly.
Brooding Italian yo. Yeah, that's exactly him.
He was so hot because you know, what happened was we filmed this
scene called for this video called Nailed and screwed, I
(29:13):
think, or is getting screwed or nailed and screwed.
And it was like he was fucking me.
And then I couldn't come. And so he just put his hand in
my ass and I shoot a load with his hand in my ass, which they
had to tightly crop because it wasn't a fisting movie.
And then after it was done, I was like, Oh my God.
OK, so now that I've gotten fisted on camera, I want to do
my first fisting scene and I want you to do it.
(29:34):
And so Chris Ward let me have him as my very cool.
Yeah. Anyways, so I know you've
transitioned into podcasting. Let's let's talk about
demystifying gay porn. Yeah, yeah.
So. What made you start the show and
how has it been for you steppingin front of a mic instead of
behind the camera? It's very it's a very the way I
can answer this question has evolved over the the amount of
(29:56):
time that I've been. It's almost six years at this
point. It started.
I was just interviewing, you know, I, when you meet models
and viewers are watching them for, you know, to get off and
for sex and stuff like that, that's amazing.
That's one aspect of them. But we're in the room with them.
We talk about art, we talk aboutpolitics, we talk about everyday
life, you know, what they're doing and their interests and
(30:16):
stuff. And I always thought that that
was very, very cool, especially the ones that are doing, you
know, this is just a part time thing for them or they just like
to have sex in front of people or in front of the camera.
And at first it was, you know, just talking to people that I
thought, OK, well, you have a very, very cool story.
Would you share that with with an audience?
And I didn't even know what kindof audience it would be.
The first, the first kind of waythat demystifying gay porn
(30:43):
before it was demystifying gay porn was coming about was Owen
Hawk had let me take a camera with me on shoots.
And in 20/18/2017 I was doing kind of like mini documentaries
of people and I lost a lot of good footage because one of our
hard drives failed. I had this amazing, just a
little really quick aside, I hadthis amazing story of Paul
(31:03):
Stagg. Do you know Paul Stagg?
So Paul Stagg? Yeah, I think so.
Yeah, from Treasure Island, but he's Auk based, awesome guy.
And I feel like, you know, he used to escort in the eight in
the 90s and he met many, many a Hollywood star.
And I will say this, he whatevernon disclosure agreement that he
had, he did not respect it one bit.
(31:26):
And I was like, and I was like, this is going to be amazing.
And then I lost it for each other.
But. Yeah.
So that kind of started getting me to into that direction.
And then I was hanging out with Champ Robinson one day and he's
like, you should start a park atpodcast.
And I was like, you know, I never thought about that.
So I started looking into it. Equipment became less expensive,
and I'm more of a visual guy. Audio.
(31:48):
Yeah. You know, you would put a
microphone or an audio device recorder on set just in case.
But I was never a really big audio guy.
So if you watch, it's also an audio visual podcast.
So if you watch from Season 1 toSeason 5, you could see the
evolution of what worked, what didn't.
At some point, I think I had, yeah, Season 3, I had headsets,
(32:10):
right? Kind of like Howard Stern has
for their guests. And it looked like they were
landing a plane, right? One of those those microphones
here because a lot of a lot of the models would move and they
would move and the microphone wouldn't follow them and you'd
get shoddy, shoddy, shoddy audio, shoddy O and yeah.
So I started, started adapting it into the history of gay
(32:30):
erotica because I thought, well,first and foremost, I had a lot
of a couple of situations with models flaking and doing stuff.
And it was after the pandemic and I, I, I wanted to, I wanted
something else from it. And I started thinking about the
fact that we are in an industry where you don't have to go to
school to do any of this stuff. You don't have to know the
history of it. You can just take your clothes
(32:51):
off in front of the camera and have sex and make one.
And I thought it was fascinatinglittle by little, finding out
what it took for us to actually get here.
And what it took was a lot of people going to jail in order to
preserve the rights that hopefully we will have, you
know, during this administration, but hopefully we
will have. They've endured over 50 years at
(33:13):
this point. But a lot of a lot of people
went to jail. A lot of people didn't put their
name on stuff because of the fact that they could they could
go to jail. They could face fines.
All of that stuff was so fascinating.
I go through the gambit of like maybe late 60s, early 70s and
season 4, all the while still talking to some models.
(33:34):
But once I got into it, I just, you know, I'm on season 4 right
now. It's been 2 years.
That's amazing. Yeah, it's it's longer than I
wanted it to be. However, I've learned a lot on
where I'm going to go for Season5.
In the season 5, it's going to be the 80s and stuff, but I know
it's it's kind of like gone fromhere and the scope of it is
going to be more and more concentrated.
(33:55):
I can't wait to listen to that. I didn't realize that that was
something you were doing. So I didn't know that because
I'm actually, this is, I have two podcasts.
I have Legends of Fisting and then Burlapse.
And so Legends is me interviewing the Trail Blazers
of the fisting community. And so it's I'm also, I'm also
interested in the history of where what it took to get to
where we are today. And so I think that's really
amazing that you're doing that. And yeah, just I love classic
(34:17):
porn. It's absolutely beautiful and
it's so cool to see how you knowthe Come Pop shot or the money
shot. That was something that was
created in the 80s, Yeah. Coming in the ass or coming at
all sometimes wasn't really something that people were were
looking into coming in the ass and breeding starting in like
(34:39):
the 90s. And that's something I'll touch
in the 90s. But because of the taboo of, you
know, a pre condom, condom and then post condom.
So it's. And I got a lot of catching up
to do. Yeah, no, I will send you, you
know the best place to see it because I have been able to go
through a lot of did a lot of research and by research, I mean
I watched a lot of porn from the70s.
(35:01):
It's it's really, really cool and I use a lot of it on
YouTube. And that's been another fight
too is because it's called I'm shortening it to DGP, but it's
called demons to find gay porn and everybody that knows it will
go on there and find it. But the minute I would put up a
video, it was automatically minimalized or not demonetized
per SE, but it had limited ads or limited audience.
I don't care per SE about the ads.
(35:23):
I don't care about the money aspect of it.
But The thing is, is attached with the money aspect is the
wider audience. So if you can get a wider
audience, that's that's basically what I want to do is
introduce people to the fact that in these, these records,
these video records, archival video records of people, it
shows gay people. It's a documentary of how people
(35:44):
lived life, culture, what they wore, cruising, all of that
stuff that people were doing in the 70s.
Yeah, much more honestly than Hollywood ever did.
If we watch movies from the 70s and the 80s, they're just making
fun of gay people. So that was my argument when I
had to appeal, when they took away monetization for for the
channel, I was like, I don't understand how you can do
(36:05):
something or, or you can watch something that's not grata.
They called it gratifying, right?
Or gratuitous sexual overtones and stuff.
And I was like, there's nothing.The only thing sexual is the
fact that it's dealing with gay erotica.
But I'm not showing it on on YouTube.
Yeah, I'm showing just enough. Have you covered erotic hands
yet? Not yet, Not yet that movie are
(36:28):
you? Are you talking about the
zoophilia movie or No erotic hands?
No erotic hands is 90s right? I think it's earlier than that.
It's I think it's 80s or or even70s, but erotic hands is I have
on my front door a screenshot framed from that movie.
OK. I always wonder what happened to
(36:48):
those guys because they were it was it was the first real
hardcore fisting video, first real fetish video that I think
really specifically about fisting.
And it was Bijou classics OK. Yeah.
Well, yeah, Bijou's, they've kind of the guy that that owns
Bijou kind of bought up a whole bunch of vintage titles per SE.
(37:09):
He distributed or distributes itnow, but he he's not necessarily
the person that shot it. OK.
But I will look it up. I feel like I have come across
it. Do you know Roger Earle?
No, Roger Earle, I think is somebody that he's still alive.
He's still in California, but very, very hard to reach.
He did a lot of stuff that was considered very, very hardcore
(37:30):
in the 70s. There was just, I'll never
forget there was a scene in Erotic Hands where this guy gets
fisted and then they wrap a beltaround his arm and he fits this
guy with the belt and then pullsthe belt off his arm while it's
still in the guy's ass. It was so intense.
So it was just, it was so like, I mean, did I just make you
play? I'm.
I'm visualizing. I'm a very visual person.
(37:50):
Yeah. He had a belt.
He like, wrapped this belt around his arm and then unpulled
the belt off when it was in the guy's butt.
It was pretty. It was, it was hot.
But that's really, I'm really impressed and I'm really happy
for you that you found. I don't know if it's, if you're
anything like me that this is giving me a different kind of
gratification than filming content.
Absolutely. It's like it's make, it's, it's
(38:11):
like, it makes me feel like I'm sharing stories from people that
otherwise wouldn't have a platform to tell their story.
And so this focus is mostly on the kink and fetish fetish side
of the industry, But it's, everybody has an interesting
story. Everybody's story has been so
unique and so different. I'm, it can only shoot so much.
I filmed 7 or 800 porn scenes with myself.
And so it's at a certain point I'm kind of just, oh man,
(38:33):
another one. But this has been such a breath
of fresh air for me. Yeah, same.
I feel the same way. I've been doing this for almost
20 years behind the camera and at a certain point I still enjoy
it. I enjoy it.
However, I'm very selective withwho I'm going to shoot with now
because I don't want to waste mytime.
I don't want to make a bad scene.
If you got a bad scene while you're there after putting it
(38:54):
all together, shit happens. But I try my best not.
And you do what you do the best that you can without having to
add dialogue or anything. There's, there's a time and
place for that stuff. But I know I find this very,
very gratifying for me because Iget to do stuff.
I come from a documentary background too.
I get to research and find people and find their books and
(39:15):
find how they were living and put it together on video.
And it's it's a labor of love atthe moment.
Doesn't need to be bigger. Yeah, sure.
But does it do I want it to be sure, but it doesn't have to be
like I like the audience that I have now.
So just to get back to or to wrap that, that that question
up. I I absolutely, I enjoy it.
I love reminiscing and sharing with people and you know, just
(39:38):
seeing how good we have it rightnow.
You know, like these people watch movies and going to
movies. The people that are reminiscing
on retro or vintage porn, watching movies that they
haven't seen since the theaters and getting the background of
it, that's really, really cool. Yeah, because there's a
generation of people that, I mean, there's a whole
generation, generations of people who don't know where.
(40:00):
The roots came from and without them doing what they did, we
wouldn't have it the way we haveit today.
So it's really important to tellthose stories.
I think it's so good on you since you cover such a broad
range of topics on your show, not just fetish.
You've had me on the show, so you've got some.
You've got a wide range of guys on the show.
So what do you think are some ofthe biggest misconceptions that
(40:21):
people have about porn stars or about the industry in general?
I mean, the easiest answers thatwere dirty, uneducated.
Those are two big misconceptions.
I, you know, I'm, I won't lie, Igo on.
If I see a job that I, I'm very interested in, I go on job hunts
(40:42):
and I've been on a couple And the minute they, they find out
because I don't lie, you know, I, I pretty much tell them this
is what I do. I even get into doors like
sometimes when it's on my resumeand then I don't get it because
they say, well, you work in the down into the industry and it's
like this is a multi billion dollar industry.
So I respect this industry more than I respect the
(41:04):
Pharmaceutical industry per SE or the food industry per SE or
the FT like certain things that.It's mostly honest.
Yes, exactly. We are selling sex with sex.
Every other industry, be it the movie industry, be like
Hollywood. And some they sell.
They sell you something, but they use sex to sell it to you.
And then we're The Dirty ones. We're the people, we're the
awful people that are that are, you know, that's the least you
(41:26):
can do, you know, so. And to be a successful person in
the industry, you can't be, you have to be a hard worker.
You have to be to be successful,to make a name for yourself to
you have to hustle, you have to work.
And it's in people you know don't realize it's a job.
And well, that's why, that's whyyou see such a like, I love them
when people are like, oh, I'm going to start an only fans page
(41:47):
and I'm like, do you have any industry experience?
Oh, but you know, I'm like, OK, good luck.
I do. I wish them, I wish them nothing
but the best. But you know, they're going to
be casting. Yeah, they're going to be
casting. They have to get their
equipment. They got a good cameraman.
They got it. They got to do everything.
And then they have to edit. The worst thing, anybody I
always hear, oh, I got to edit. I love editing.
(42:08):
Me too. Yeah.
But but yeah, when you know whatyou're doing, when it comes,
when you know you're shooting toedit, it makes it that much
easier. Yeah, editing is some of my
favorite stuff. I mean, it's just like I get to
go back and relive the moment. It makes something really,
really cool. I get excited when it's a cool
piece of content that I'm excited for people to see this.
For example, what was I going tosay?
(42:31):
Well, and that's what those are really good.
I mean, the fact that we're dirty and uneducated.
I mean, that's I know that for my experience, I mean, I guess
still get judgements from the people that I went to high
school with, like, you know, I still get, you know, I know that
they still talk about, but I'm like, I traveled the world.
Yep. Same thing.
I bought a house with my butt hole.
Like, same thing. Same thing.
(42:52):
And I, I would rather do this even wherever I go, after
wherever it brings me and stuff.I would rather do this than be a
politician. I'd rather do this than be just
anything where you're going to blatantly lie to people.
And that's basically what we live in is, you know, yeah, a
world of blatant lies. And then here we are presenting
(43:14):
the most, the most truth that you can.
Right. Because, yeah, one of the, I
think one of the hardest things to do is probably have sex in
front of the camera and stuff. Yeah.
At least, you know, shame wise or person wise, yeah.
I feel like my last two questions, the two questions
that I was going to ask, you've already kind of answered them
already. So, but I mean, I'll ask this
last one. What are you most excited about
(43:35):
working on these days? Is it the podcast directing or
what is your what's your passionproject right now?
So I'm actually on the side working on a documentary that
that on a music documentary thatI've I've been trying to do for
the past almost 10 years at thispoint.
So that's going to happen. But that's that's happening on
the side that makes me happy. I absolutely love the podcast.
(43:56):
If I can spend full time workingon it, I would.
But I, I do, I love directing still and I have a couple of
projects. I still got a good, I think I
got a good what is it? I would say a good five years
left before I'm like, OK, well, you know, I can transition to
something else. But there's still a lot of
projects that I want to do because it's one thing to direct
a scene or scenes the way I have, but I do want to add
(44:18):
another element to it. Not feature per SE, but because
we have done that before in the past with Death Drive and stuff
I want to do. I do a couple of other projects
that kind of not necessarily go mainstream, but are a little
more than softcore. That's it.
Not hardcore, not softcore. A little more gravity.
Accessible. Yeah.
(44:38):
OK. I don't know you just you just
you mentioned Howard Stern earlier.
Did you, did you know that I gotmy first one-on-one with them?
Yeah. Yeah.
Oh, yeah, I have the, I found the well, I found the audio, but
I would love to have, I'm tryingto find every single time that
you've been on it. Do they give you a copy of that?
No, they don't. But it was it was April Fool's
Day. It took almost dying to get on
(44:59):
the show with him one-on-one live because it was like after
my perforation, he was like he wanted to talk to me.
And I opened the show for like 35 minutes with Howard.
Wow. OK, I didn't know that.
Yeah, I didn't know that. That's awesome.
OK, so I have to find that interview.
He was actually super cool with me and it was April 1st.
So if you have serious April 1st, it's it was it was pretty,
(45:21):
pretty crazy. He's like Robin still always
gives me a hard time, but however, it's pretty cool.
So OK, so where can people find more about you online and check
out debissifying gay porn? Like where are you streaming
these days? You can find demystifying gay
porn wherever you get your podcasts, OK?
Do you know? However, you Mr. Fine
gayporn.com. I'm on YouTube if you are
(45:44):
interested in watching it because like I said, it's an
audio visual podcast. Even before it was, there were
like many documentaries we wouldinterview kind of like what
we're doing here. You see the people and how they
move and how they interact. So that's on YouTube, like and
subscribe. That's always very, very
important. Yeah.
And anywhere you get your podcast, I want XI want sub
(46:05):
stack anywhere, Anywhere people listen to me, I'm still not on
Reddit. Figure out.
I got to figure Reddit out. Do you know Reddit?
Out there. I mean, like, Reddit knows me.
You just see the comments about my arrest, dude.
OK, Yeah, no, my police report is on fucking Reddit with like
600 comments about it, so yeah, OK.
(46:26):
We got to, we got to catch up outside of this on top of that.
I got arrested. It was Oh my God, it's a
bullshit story. I'll save it for afterwards.
But yeah. So you guys, this has been
episode 50 Hunger FF presents prolapse.
Thank you for listening. We are on Apple, Amazon, Spotify
and YouTube. New episodes go live on
(46:47):
hungerff.com and just for fans slash hunger FF on Friday
nights, audio on all platforms Friday night at 8:00 PM.
Again, I can't get on day. I can't roll my Rs.
But hey. Yeah.
Thank you so much for coming on.I really appreciate your time
and we'll talk soon. OK.
Yeah, pleasure. Have a good one.
Cheers. Bye guys.
Thanks for going deep with me onHunger FF presents roll ups.
(47:09):
If you're loving the ride, hit subscribe, drop a review and
share the fisting love. Follow me on social media at
Hunger FF for unfiltered updatesand exclusive content.
But until next time, keep it raw, real and always hungry.
I'll see you on the next episode.
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