December 1, 2021 • 28 mins
18. Naturopathic physician Katrina Bogdon joins me on this episode to discuss evidence-based integrative approaches for breast cancer. She is a wealth of information for naturopathic integrative oncology and provides compassionate care with a level of excellence that is hard to find. In this episode she shares how to navigate the challenges of being diagnosed with breast cancer and where to find evidence-based therapies. You will also learn more about her integrative program for people undergoing breast cancer treatment called The Missing Piece.
You can learn more about her services at Our Healing Roots
Resource mentioned: Beyond Conventional Cancer Therapies
DISCLAIMER: Katrina is not licensed in the state of Missouri and works as a Naturopathic Integrative Consultant.
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Episode Transcript
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Brigitte Factor (00:13):
Hello and welcome to the hungry for truth
podcast. I'm your host, Brigittefactor, a truth seeker,
researcher, scientist,nutritionist, teacher in truth
teller, and awakening is coming.
Get ready for itHello, and welcome back to the
(00:47):
hungry for truth podcast. I'myour host Brigitte factor. I
have a wonderful guest with metoday. Her name is Katrina
Bogdan. She is a naturopathicphysician here in Southwest
Missouri. Let me introduce her.
Katrina grew up in the Ozarks.
Her business Our Healing Rootsis located at her farm in
Seymour, Missouri. Katrina helpspeople diagnosed with breast
(01:09):
cancer to choose evidence basednatural approaches that safely
integrate with theirconventional breast cancer
treatment. Katrina graduatedwith an undergraduate degree in
physics and a doctorate innaturopathic medicine. And at
the National University ofnatural medicine in Portland,
Oregon she completed over 4100hours of classroom and clinical
(01:32):
training, including 1200 hoursof hands on supervised clinical
training. Since 2007 she hasbeen licensed in the state of
Washington as a naturopathicphysician. She completed an
integrative oncology residencyprogram at Cancer Treatment
Centers of America in Tulsa,Oklahoma. And in 2015, she
(01:53):
returned to the Ozarks andoffered naturopathic
consultations at 2 B Well inSpringfield. She now serves as
an integrative oncologyconsultant to people undergoing
conventional breast cancertreatment in her program called
The Missing Piece. And sheprovides one on one integrative
support virtually or in personat her Seymour farm. Welcome,
(02:16):
Katrina. I'm so glad to have youon the podcast.
Katrina Bogdon (02:21):
Thank you so much for having me, Brigitte, I
really appreciate it.
Brigitte Factor (02:24):
Yeah. So I would love to dig into your
story more and would you pleaseshare more about how you came to
the work in the field ofnaturopathic integrative
oncology?
Katrina Bogdon (02:35):
Well, it's not exactly what I set out to do
when I was going to say thetruth I don't think many people
do. But when I was young, I wasabsolutely obsessed with space.
And so to the point, I wastrying to teach myself calculus
to figure out the astrophysicsequation. I was really overboard
and wanted to be the first womanon Mars. I did finally get the
(02:56):
opportunity to fly with NASA onwhat they call the vomit comet.
And it truly did live up to itsname, I found out I was not the
right stuff. So but, you know,and I also realized, too, you
know, sitting in monitoring testtubes, on a Friday night was
just not very interesting. Iwanted to spend and interact
(03:16):
more with people and my serviceto the world. So I started
looking at medicine at the time,because I had already been
studying space medicine and wasinterested in medical physics.
And had the blessing to bepaired with a physician who
really did not care for his jobtoo much. And I was a little
appalled at what he had saidabout patients afterwards, I was
(03:37):
like, I just really don't thinkthis is the right profession for
me. And so my mom at that timehad recommended I look into
naturopathic medicine, which shesaid make sure you go to a four
year school don't do an onlinecourse. And so I didn't even
know what this was. So I took ayear off and volunteered and
tried to read everything I couldabout what this naturopathic
(03:57):
medicine was and it just made alot of sense to me. So when I
got to naturopathic medicalschool I was expecting this is
great. I'm going to learn aboutherbs and nutrition and healthy
lifestyle, but I got way morethan I had ever bargained for. I
found myself drawing blood anddoing gynecology exams and
performing minor surgeries andlearning how to safely prescribe
(04:20):
drugs. Those, you know, thoseare not skills I get to use here
in Missouri because it's not alicensed state for naturopathic
medicine. But I really doappreciate that I had that
learning experience. And then asfar as the integrative oncology
pieces goes, that that was kindof a stumble into stumbled into
it as well because I wanted tojust get to know some
(04:42):
naturopathic doctors that werenear Arkansas was planning on
coming back home. And so I wentand did a preceptorship with him
and just fell in love with whatI saw at Cancer Treatment
Centers of America at that time.
It was so neat to see theintegration of you know,
conventional medical doctors andnaturopathic doctors providing
that integrative care side byside was really the integration
that drew me more than anythingelse. And I was excited to be
(05:04):
back around people and culturethat that felt like home to me.
Brigitte Factor (05:10):
Yeah, that's great. What a fascinating story.
I love hearing about all how allof that came together from
flying in the vomit comet andworking with cancer patients.
That's just amazing to me. Thankyou for sharing that. Well,
there are a lot of terms so thatyou're using and that we hear in
the media about natural medicineor naturopathic medicine,
(05:33):
alternative, holisticintegrative, what are those
mean? Exactly? What do you mean,when you say integrative?
Katrina Bogdon (05:40):
Yeah, well, you know, and it can be really
confusing. There are there is alot of terminology. And people
do use these words differently.
So in the context that I usethem, I think it's probably
easier to start off by justdefining conventional. So when
we talk about conventionalmedicine, we're talking about
the licensed medical doctorsthat you typically go see, when
we look at an integrativeapproach we're looking at how do
we safely combine thatconventional treatment that you
(06:02):
get, say, from a conventionaloncologist with more natural and
less invasive approaches, sothat we can really support the
whole person and what we do. Sointegrative medicine uses still
a scientific evidence basedapproach to really offer the
patient the best of both worlds,both conventional treatment and
natural health care. In my case,I'm providing more than natural
(06:23):
health care component of thatworking alongside oncologists.
And so when I refer toalternative cancer treatment,
I'm referring to people who arechoosing to do just natural
therapies only, they're notwanting to do any conventional
treatment at all. So Ispecifically consult with people
who are wanting to integrativeapproach. So I can't provide an
alternative approach becauseit's against the law for me to
(06:44):
do here. So but I really do loveworking with people going
through conventional cancertreatment and making it more of
an integrative experience forthem.
Brigitte Factor (06:53):
Yeah, that's really great. I love that you
can bring your skill set toMissouri in the way where you
can come alongside these peopleand support them. I think that's
amazing. So you've created aprogram called The Missing Piece
and so tell me more about thatprogram. How did that come
about?
Katrina Bogdon (07:12):
Well, for about the last nine years, I left
Cancer Treatment Centers ofAmerica, I've been doing a mix
of working with people withcancer in general health care.
And, you know, when you work ingeneral health care, it's you
have to know so much about somany different topics. And even
the field of oncology, it coversa lot of different diseases and
the treatments for are justchanging at such a rapid pace.
(07:34):
So last year, I made thedecision that I wanted to know
and do one thing to a very highlevel of excellence. And so I
committed to building a programwith well researched materials
and a well defined strategy. AndI had that background in
integrative oncology. And I'vealways been really touched by
the many people that I've seendiagnosed with breast cancer.
(07:55):
And it's still unbelievable tome, how many people are affected
by this disease. I've seen youngmoms who are finding that they
have breast cancer just afterthey're finishing breastfeeding
their babies. Manyperimenopausal people who are
going through a time of greattransformation in their lives.
And I even really love thespunky older women who are just
hitting the prime, they'restride and not going to let this
(08:16):
take them down. And so all ofthese people have a very strong
reason to live. They're lookingfor answers many times that are
outside of the box. Andoftentimes they come to my
office saying that they justfelt like something was missing
and doing conventional careonly. And that the by
integrating a holistic andnatural approach, that that was
the missing piece for them. Andthus that's why I call it the
(08:37):
missing piece. And so luckily,survival rates for breast cancer
are really high these days. AndI want to support people that go
on to live very healthy livesduring and after treatment.
Brigitte Factor (08:47):
Yeah, that's great. That's great. I love the
name the missing pieceperfectly. That's really that's
really cool. So, you know, I'msure that getting a breast
cancer diagnosis can be prettyscary. Can you walk us through
that process about what happenswhen someone gets a diagnosis?
Katrina Bogdon (09:06):
Yeah, you know, I think for for many people, it
feels like an eternity justbuilding up to that diagnosis
alone. You know, waiting for thethe screening mammogram, the
diagnostic mammogram waiting forthe biopsy results I hear a lot
of people say that's the hardestpart of it all. Once they know
what's going to happen, it getsa little bit easier. But once
(09:26):
they get that diagnosis, thingsstart to move really fast. For a
lot of people, the first stop isgenerally to see the surgeon and
they're going to find out thatusually they're going to start
with surgery or they're going toneed chemotherapy first to help
shrink the tumor before thesurgery is done. And so many
women nowadays are starting witha lumpectomy and which is nice
(09:47):
to have more of a sparingsurgery dispair the healthy
breast tissue. And often testingwill be done at that time to on
the tissue to make sure ifthere's any doubt that
chemotherapy is needed to makesure that it's approved In this
case, and it's not being givenunnecessarily, usually the
medical oncologist comes nextand they choose which
chemotherapy is most appropriateand safe for the person, they
(10:09):
may do some further testing todetermine that. And if they find
that the tumor is positive for amarker that we now call her to
new, the person's usually goingto be also put on some
immunotherapy generally agentslike Herceptin and Perjeta drugs
that are commonly used now,which can last a year. So it's
quite an extensive process. Oncethey do that, then typically
(10:30):
radiation therapy follows andfollow finally, by endocrine
therapy, if that person has atumor, that's estrogen or
progesterone receptor positiveand those endocrine therapies,
typically, many people heardabout maybe tamoxifen, but
aromatase inhibitors would alsobe included in that group too.
Okay, that's a journey.
Brigitte Factor (10:51):
Yeah, that sounds like a lot. And I could
see why someone would want extrasupport through all of that, to
have, you know, just to evenhave your explanation of it. And
in, in presented in such acompassionate understanding way
to help them understand what'shappening. And in integrate,
(11:12):
like, you're like you're doingthe the process is the missing
piece part of it. That's, that'sreally wonderful. So what are
what are three of the biggestchallenges you see people with
breast cancer facing today?
Katrina Bogdon (11:27):
Yeah, well, I would say probably one of the
first things that I reallynoticed this, honestly, we're
just starting to learn moreabout as the post traumatic
stress that women experiencegoing through treatment, and how
traumatic that can be, as Imentioned, going through
treatment comes and goes fast.
And it can take out, it can bedifficult to process. And so you
know, and even ifpsychologically, you're like, I
(11:49):
know, I'm okay, I know that Godhas this, I'm held within this
standpoint to your bodyremembers a lot of this and
stores that trauma in a way. Andso it's not even necessarily
processed or cognitive. Butyeah, same time still feeling
these feelings of anxiety. Andso, you know, on the on the
worst side of this, thatsometimes can happen to is that
(12:12):
women get to the end oftreatment, and they're like, I
just want to forget about it, Idon't want to see another
doctor, I can't face it again.
And so those are instances towhere it's really important to
get some support, and somebodywho's a trauma trained
therapist, and how to workthrough and process some of
that. Because I have sadly seeninstances where, you know, we've
(12:34):
had a patient who couldn't facegoing back to see the doctor.
And then by the time that shedid see the doctor, it was all
over the lungs and allthroughout her bones. And so
it's important to get follow upcare and PTSD can be something
blocking that. The second thingthat I think that a lot of
people are facing with this isjust information overwhelm, the
(12:54):
amount of information that's onthe internet, and that friends
and family want to suggest aswell. And then social media
today to mention that you haveany condition on social media
and pop so many differentsuggestions and helpful people.
But it can be hard to discern,you know, through that
information. What is true, whatif it's misinformation? How do
(13:15):
we figure that out? And sothat's a lot of what I do is
helping people to kind of lookat, you know, where is there
good evidence, as far as thingsthat you could possibly do for
breast cancer, I'm sure thatthere are hundreds of things
that you could try or take. Butat the end of the day, you only
have so much money and so manysupplements or pills that you
can stomach. So making sure thatwe make wise choices that
(13:35):
probably have the best levels ofevidence, and choosing those
wisely so that it's good for youtoo. And then finally, to you
know, just trying to help toadjust to what they call the new
normal. I know a lot of peoplehate that term. But really, I
mean, a lot changes when you gothrough that diagnosis that
(13:55):
sometimes other your friends andyour peers can't relate to not
having gone through that sameexperience in there's changes in
your body image. Certainlychanges in libido and sexuality.
And those are not things thatoften we comfortably talk about
or can feel a little bit bashfulabout, but it's so important for
our health at the same time andthat often. A lot of people are
(14:17):
too embarrassed to bring that upto the doctors, but it is
important to look at and a lotof people are facing those
issues.
Brigitte Factor (14:24):
Yeah, I think that's I think that is important
that it's that you'rerecognizing that psychological
piece of it that can often getoverlooked, you know? And I can
understand that people would beoverwhelmed and then you add the
trauma part of that on top of itand then it can be really
(14:44):
complicated or hard for peopleto navigate. So I think that's
good and with a cancerdiagnosis. I'm sure people start
asking the question why. Right.
Right. So can you share a littlebit of light on what factors
actually drive cancer to developin the first place?
Katrina Bogdon (15:05):
Well, I think we can take at least some measure
of comfort and knowing thatcancer is a really complex and
multifactorial process, it'sgenerally not just one thing
that happens otherwise, I thinkwe'd see a lot more seven year
olds walking around with breastcancer. So luckily, you know, we
have so many safeguards that areput into place, but generally
(15:26):
cancers going to start with sometype of genomic instability or
DNA damage. And this could becaused by things that we call
carcinogens. And we'veidentified many things that can
begin that DNA damage, it may bea virus, such as epstein barr,
which many people have beenexposed to, it could be also
(15:46):
different chemicals, whetherit's gasoline, or bisphenol. And
we have exposure to these on avery regular basis. And
obviously, we don't all go on tohave cancer. And the reason why
that that is, is that, you know,in the wisdom of our bodies,
that there have been so manysafeguards put there to protect
us that our cells should go intoself destruct mode, what we call
(16:09):
a ptosis. When there is genomicinstability, DNA damage, so that
they don't go on to causeproblems such as cancer and
issues, that the immune systemshould be able to be on
surveillance and define thesecells and say, you are not
making and to get rid of thosecells and to not let them to
propagate that on. And then notonly that, when that damage
(16:32):
happens as well, generally, it'sbypasses a ptosis, and it
bypasses your immune system,then, you know, it's also can be
driven by situations wherethere's a lot of inflammation
going on. And also a situationwhere there are growth factors
that we've identified such ashigh insulin levels, estrogens.
(16:54):
So many things have to happen,and it's not going to grow most
cases right away. For many typesof breast cancer, you know, the
cancer is going to probably bepresent in your in your cells in
your body for two to five yearsbefore it's even big enough to
be seen. So it is it can be aslow process. And many things go
awry before it turns necessarilyinto cancer.
Brigitte Factor (17:17):
Yeah, it sounds like there's a lot that goes
into it. It's not just onething.
Katrina Bogdon (17:23):
Yeah, otherwise, I think I'd be neurotic.
Brigitte Factor (17:28):
Yeah, so you mentioned earlier about the
importance of having evidencebased treatments, because there
is so much information outthere. And we don't, you know,
want to waste our money onthings that may not help us and
are trying 1000 different thingsbefore we find the thing that
actually works. So how do youfind credible information for
(17:49):
your clients?
Katrina Bogdon (17:51):
Well, probably the place I start many times,
it's going to be pubmed.gov,which is a wonderful large
database of our peer reviewedpublished scientific journals,
and articles and whatnot. And ittakes a lot just to cross that
barrier. But as you covered, Ithink, in the very first episode
of your show, I mean, eventhough you get published, there
can still be a lot of poorquality studies out there, just
(18:12):
having something published isn'tenough that you'd have to look
at methodology and the type ofstudy and, you know, I think
looking at that, and I'vedefinitely I've heard one of the
criticisms or patients come backand they say, you know, my
oncologist said that there's noevidence for natural medicine.
There are 1000s of articles outthere on natural substances and
cancer. So, you know, I usuallystart out by typing in that
(18:36):
person's cancer type as well aswhat the agent is that they have
in question that they want toknow about. And we'll look and
we'll look at that study and seewhat is that level of evidence
as we as we begin to discernthat together if they have
questions about things. But Ialso use another database called
Natural Medicines database,which is a professional database
to look at interactions betweendrugs and supplements, and you
(19:00):
have to still use somediscernment in that to go back
and read the original studiesthat the claims are being based
on. So looking at how do yousafely combine these and I've
gotten a lot of my knowledge asbeing part of the Oncology
Association of NaturopathicPhysicians, they have a
wonderful database that they'rebuilding called the know
database, K N O W. And they'reusing that just to really help
(19:22):
to expand our understanding ofthe scientific evidence that's
out there for natural substancesand the quality of that evidence
as well as you know what cancertypes of treatments you can
safely use that with and whatdoesn't work too, as well as the
journal clubs, the conferences,the continuing education and
just the support that we lendamong ourselves in our
professional community whenquestions come up, and we can
(19:44):
ask each other, but probably theresource I would recommend the
most for patients and for peoplelistening today would be
something called B C C T thatstands for beyond conventional
cancer therapy dot NGO not dotcom, NGO, and it is a wonderful
website that has been puttogether by integrative medical
(20:06):
professionals who have looked atthe level of evidence for
different supplements lifestylemeasures food exercise. And so
in particular, for breastcancer, they've done a great job
and listing the quality ofevidence for each group so that
you can really read through anddiscern so and know that you're
going to be getting somethingthat has good, good information
(20:29):
behind it, not just anything offthe wild west of the internet.
From that perspective, the onlything I would caution though, of
course, is that before you startany supplements at all, make
sure that you run that by yourhealthcare professionals make
sure there are no interactionsand that it's safe for you to do
so.
Brigitte Factor (20:44):
Yeah, yeah. So what was that website? Again?
Katrina Bogdon (20:47):
It's called B C C T dot NGO, beyond conventional
cancer therapy,
Brigitte Factor (20:54):
okay. Okay.
We'll put that link in the shownotes for people to so they can
access that and see that. That'sreally wonderful. Thank you for
sharing that. So when we'retalking about cancer developing
and and, you know, a big part ofthat is prevention, like what
would be great if we could allfocus on prevention, right, but
sometimes that's not possible.
(21:17):
So what is one of the mostimportant powerful risk factors
that people can modify to reducethe risk of breast cancer
recurrence?
Katrina Bogdon (21:25):
Well, studies have found that exercise
probably has the most robusteffect on reducing breast cancer
occurrence and reoccurrence whenit comes to lifestyle. Exercise
can impact of course, yourhormone levels, insulin levels,
inflammation, and a metaanalysis of 22 prospective
cohort studies found that breastcancer mortality recurrence was
(21:47):
reduced by 41%, with exerciseafter breast cancer diagnosis.
And that's probably the biggesteffect that we've seen. It's
better than any supplement thatI'm gonna.
Brigitte Factor (21:57):
Wow, that's actually surprising to me that
it's that exercise. Yeah, hasthat big of an effect.
Katrina Bogdon (22:06):
It does. And yet, it can be one of the
hardest things to do. Right,they did another study kind of
following up with that. And theyfound that only about 13% of
breast cancer survivors areactually getting the recommended
amount, the amount that they'relooking for. And targeting in
many of these studies, issomewhere around 150 minutes per
week of moderately moderateintensity, which is to say that
(22:27):
you could exercise and stilltalk, but probably not belt out
a song.
Brigitte Factor (22:31):
Yeah. Okay. So 150 minutes a week is five 30
minutes sessions. So there yougo. Break it down, make it easy.
Absolutely. That's great. Sothere's there's our
encouragement to get get the getour movement and exercise on
Right. Absolutely. So you'veworked with a lot of cancer
(22:53):
patients, can you share some ofthe type of results that you've
seen with the care that youprovide?
Katrina Bogdon (22:59):
Absolutely, I mean, I think the short answer
to that is that we see peopleliving with fewer side effects
and a better quality of life.
But let's go ahead and maybeanswer this question in the form
of a story. And I'll tell itabout a client I'm going to call
ln, which is really acombination of to my clients,
since this is a local podcast,and I don't want to divulge too
much there. But Ellen's in hermid 40s. She's had a lot of
(23:21):
stress in her life. pandemicscertainly has not helped and,
and she really came not wantingto do a conventional approach.
She's using natural approachmost of her life. This was
really scary to her. From thatstandpoint. By the time I saw
her, she had already hadsurgery, and I met with her
medical oncologist. But when shetalked about her concerns to her
(23:45):
medical oncologist, herecommended that she worked with
me. And so that really gave hera lot of comfort, knowing that
she could actually pick anintegrative approach and meet
halfway in between and get thebest of both of those worlds.
And so when we first met, I hadthe privilege of really getting
to know what Ellen's story was.
And we discussed an evidencebased approach of what we could
(24:08):
recommend to do along withchemotherapy and to safely
integrate that and to supportthe effectiveness and safety of
her treatment. Ellen herself wasvery fortunate to go on and to
not to experience very few sideeffects and was actually able to
work during chemotherapy, whichwas amazing. Not everybody is as
lucky as Ellen when I work withthem. I have some people who
(24:29):
really do struggle with nausea.
And in those cases, we foundthat generally they'll eat a bit
lighter, stay pretty hydrated acouple of days before treatment,
they start to do a lot better.
So there are some things that wecan do in those cases. Ellen
then had a month off ofchemotherapy before she started
her radiation therapy. And so wework together to protect the
healthy tissue and increase theeffects of radiation on the
(24:52):
tumor using evidence basedstrategies with supplements and
I also really stress at thattime the importance of doing
exercise to help and radiationcan make you feel really tired,
particularly about halfwaythrough and then some weeks
after. And so by getting out andexercising, you're actually
increasing the number ofmitochondria and getting them to
function better, you're makingmore ATP and feeling that energy
(25:15):
within the cell. And so thatreally does help a lot of people
by staying physically activeduring radiation therapy. And
then finally, she startedendocrine therapy with an
aromatase inhibitor called theAromadex. And she noticed that
when she started that shestarted to feel a lot more
depressed, she had increasedjoint pain and hot flashes. And
so we really work together tomitigate those side effects of
(25:37):
her treatment. So it was a lotmore tolerable. And today, she's
a lot happier, she's in a lotless pain, she still has the hot
flashes, but she says they'revery tolerable, and not anywhere
near as bad as they used to be.
And so at this point in ourcareer together, we're looking
at lifestyle factors such asexercise and stress management,
and how to reduce harmfulenvironmental exposures.
Brigitte Factor (25:58):
Okay, that's excellent. I love hearing that.
How you're helping peoplenavigate through these
challenges that they're having,and you're providing this truly
holistic approach for them. Butat the same time, you're
providing a high level of careand quality in the care that you
provide as well. And I thinkthat is, is rare. It is in that
(26:26):
you're coming alongside thesepatients, making it less scary
for them, giving them hope thatit is doable, that there are
things that they can do to helpmitigate side effects and make
it doable for them that theycan't get through it to the
other side of this. So ifsomebody is interested in
learning more about working withyou, how can they reach out to
(26:47):
you?
Katrina Bogdon (26:48):
Well, the best way to reach me is through my
website, at ourhealingroots.net.
So that's O U R the word healingand then roots like roots of a
tree with an S on the end dotnet not dot com. And it's really
easy on the website to see thebutton, you just click book, a
discovery call. And I reallyenjoy doing those because it
helps me to make sure thatwhoever I'm going to work with
(27:08):
it's truly a good fit, and thatwe're going to really offer them
what they're looking for fromthat standpoint. So we do offer
that free discovery call. And aspeople sign up to do that we
have you fill out the intakepaperwork. So before we even
meet, I read, I look at what'sgoing on with you and can speak
knowledgeably and with someconfidence of what's going on
(27:29):
and what I could offer.
Brigitte Factor (27:32):
That's wonderful ourhealingroots.net
and we will put that link in theshow notes as well so people can
click on that easily. Well, thishas been a really great
conversation. And I've learned alot and I'm excited to share
this information. And I hopethat this reaches a lot of
people who are looking forsupport that they need. So thank
(27:55):
you so much for being on mypodcast. And till next time,
Grace and peace to you.
Katrina Bogdon (28:01):
Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be
here.
Hello and welcome to the hungry for truth
podcast. I'm your host, Brigittefactor, a truth seeker,
researcher, scientist,nutritionist, teacher in truth
teller, and awakening is coming.
Get ready for itHello, and welcome back to the
(00:47):
hungry for truth podcast. I'myour host Brigitte factor. I
have a wonderful guest with metoday. Her name is Katrina
Bogdan. She is a naturopathicphysician here in Southwest
Missouri. Let me introduce her.
Katrina grew up in the Ozarks.
Her business Our Healing Rootsis located at her farm in
Seymour, Missouri. Katrina helpspeople diagnosed with breast
(01:09):
cancer to choose evidence basednatural approaches that safely
integrate with theirconventional breast cancer
treatment. Katrina graduatedwith an undergraduate degree in
physics and a doctorate innaturopathic medicine. And at
the National University ofnatural medicine in Portland,
Oregon she completed over 4100hours of classroom and clinical
(01:32):
training, including 1200 hoursof hands on supervised clinical
training. Since 2007 she hasbeen licensed in the state of
Washington as a naturopathicphysician. She completed an
integrative oncology residencyprogram at Cancer Treatment
Centers of America in Tulsa,Oklahoma. And in 2015, she
(01:53):
returned to the Ozarks andoffered naturopathic
consultations at 2 B Well inSpringfield. She now serves as
an integrative oncologyconsultant to people undergoing
conventional breast cancertreatment in her program called
The Missing Piece. And sheprovides one on one integrative
support virtually or in personat her Seymour farm. Welcome,
(02:16):
Katrina. I'm so glad to have youon the podcast.
Katrina Bogdon (02:21):
Thank you so much for having me, Brigitte, I
really appreciate it.
Brigitte Factor (02:24):
Yeah. So I would love to dig into your
story more and would you pleaseshare more about how you came to
the work in the field ofnaturopathic integrative
oncology?
Katrina Bogdon (02:35):
Well, it's not exactly what I set out to do
when I was going to say thetruth I don't think many people
do. But when I was young, I wasabsolutely obsessed with space.
And so to the point, I wastrying to teach myself calculus
to figure out the astrophysicsequation. I was really overboard
and wanted to be the first womanon Mars. I did finally get the
(02:56):
opportunity to fly with NASA onwhat they call the vomit comet.
And it truly did live up to itsname, I found out I was not the
right stuff. So but, you know,and I also realized, too, you
know, sitting in monitoring testtubes, on a Friday night was
just not very interesting. Iwanted to spend and interact
(03:16):
more with people and my serviceto the world. So I started
looking at medicine at the time,because I had already been
studying space medicine and wasinterested in medical physics.
And had the blessing to bepaired with a physician who
really did not care for his jobtoo much. And I was a little
appalled at what he had saidabout patients afterwards, I was
(03:37):
like, I just really don't thinkthis is the right profession for
me. And so my mom at that timehad recommended I look into
naturopathic medicine, which shesaid make sure you go to a four
year school don't do an onlinecourse. And so I didn't even
know what this was. So I took ayear off and volunteered and
tried to read everything I couldabout what this naturopathic
(03:57):
medicine was and it just made alot of sense to me. So when I
got to naturopathic medicalschool I was expecting this is
great. I'm going to learn aboutherbs and nutrition and healthy
lifestyle, but I got way morethan I had ever bargained for. I
found myself drawing blood anddoing gynecology exams and
performing minor surgeries andlearning how to safely prescribe
(04:20):
drugs. Those, you know, thoseare not skills I get to use here
in Missouri because it's not alicensed state for naturopathic
medicine. But I really doappreciate that I had that
learning experience. And then asfar as the integrative oncology
pieces goes, that that was kindof a stumble into stumbled into
it as well because I wanted tojust get to know some
(04:42):
naturopathic doctors that werenear Arkansas was planning on
coming back home. And so I wentand did a preceptorship with him
and just fell in love with whatI saw at Cancer Treatment
Centers of America at that time.
It was so neat to see theintegration of you know,
conventional medical doctors andnaturopathic doctors providing
that integrative care side byside was really the integration
that drew me more than anythingelse. And I was excited to be
(05:04):
back around people and culturethat that felt like home to me.
Brigitte Factor (05:10):
Yeah, that's great. What a fascinating story.
I love hearing about all how allof that came together from
flying in the vomit comet andworking with cancer patients.
That's just amazing to me. Thankyou for sharing that. Well,
there are a lot of terms so thatyou're using and that we hear in
the media about natural medicineor naturopathic medicine,
(05:33):
alternative, holisticintegrative, what are those
mean? Exactly? What do you mean,when you say integrative?
Katrina Bogdon (05:40):
Yeah, well, you know, and it can be really
confusing. There are there is alot of terminology. And people
do use these words differently.
So in the context that I usethem, I think it's probably
easier to start off by justdefining conventional. So when
we talk about conventionalmedicine, we're talking about
the licensed medical doctorsthat you typically go see, when
we look at an integrativeapproach we're looking at how do
we safely combine thatconventional treatment that you
(06:02):
get, say, from a conventionaloncologist with more natural and
less invasive approaches, sothat we can really support the
whole person and what we do. Sointegrative medicine uses still
a scientific evidence basedapproach to really offer the
patient the best of both worlds,both conventional treatment and
natural health care. In my case,I'm providing more than natural
(06:23):
health care component of thatworking alongside oncologists.
And so when I refer toalternative cancer treatment,
I'm referring to people who arechoosing to do just natural
therapies only, they're notwanting to do any conventional
treatment at all. So Ispecifically consult with people
who are wanting to integrativeapproach. So I can't provide an
alternative approach becauseit's against the law for me to
(06:44):
do here. So but I really do loveworking with people going
through conventional cancertreatment and making it more of
an integrative experience forthem.
Brigitte Factor (06:53):
Yeah, that's really great. I love that you
can bring your skill set toMissouri in the way where you
can come alongside these peopleand support them. I think that's
amazing. So you've created aprogram called The Missing Piece
and so tell me more about thatprogram. How did that come
about?
Katrina Bogdon (07:12):
Well, for about the last nine years, I left
Cancer Treatment Centers ofAmerica, I've been doing a mix
of working with people withcancer in general health care.
And, you know, when you work ingeneral health care, it's you
have to know so much about somany different topics. And even
the field of oncology, it coversa lot of different diseases and
the treatments for are justchanging at such a rapid pace.
(07:34):
So last year, I made thedecision that I wanted to know
and do one thing to a very highlevel of excellence. And so I
committed to building a programwith well researched materials
and a well defined strategy. AndI had that background in
integrative oncology. And I'vealways been really touched by
the many people that I've seendiagnosed with breast cancer.
(07:55):
And it's still unbelievable tome, how many people are affected
by this disease. I've seen youngmoms who are finding that they
have breast cancer just afterthey're finishing breastfeeding
their babies. Manyperimenopausal people who are
going through a time of greattransformation in their lives.
And I even really love thespunky older women who are just
hitting the prime, they'restride and not going to let this
(08:16):
take them down. And so all ofthese people have a very strong
reason to live. They're lookingfor answers many times that are
outside of the box. Andoftentimes they come to my
office saying that they justfelt like something was missing
and doing conventional careonly. And that the by
integrating a holistic andnatural approach, that that was
the missing piece for them. Andthus that's why I call it the
(08:37):
missing piece. And so luckily,survival rates for breast cancer
are really high these days. AndI want to support people that go
on to live very healthy livesduring and after treatment.
Brigitte Factor (08:47):
Yeah, that's great. That's great. I love the
name the missing pieceperfectly. That's really that's
really cool. So, you know, I'msure that getting a breast
cancer diagnosis can be prettyscary. Can you walk us through
that process about what happenswhen someone gets a diagnosis?
Katrina Bogdon (09:06):
Yeah, you know, I think for for many people, it
feels like an eternity justbuilding up to that diagnosis
alone. You know, waiting for thethe screening mammogram, the
diagnostic mammogram waiting forthe biopsy results I hear a lot
of people say that's the hardestpart of it all. Once they know
what's going to happen, it getsa little bit easier. But once
(09:26):
they get that diagnosis, thingsstart to move really fast. For a
lot of people, the first stop isgenerally to see the surgeon and
they're going to find out thatusually they're going to start
with surgery or they're going toneed chemotherapy first to help
shrink the tumor before thesurgery is done. And so many
women nowadays are starting witha lumpectomy and which is nice
(09:47):
to have more of a sparingsurgery dispair the healthy
breast tissue. And often testingwill be done at that time to on
the tissue to make sure ifthere's any doubt that
chemotherapy is needed to makesure that it's approved In this
case, and it's not being givenunnecessarily, usually the
medical oncologist comes nextand they choose which
chemotherapy is most appropriateand safe for the person, they
(10:09):
may do some further testing todetermine that. And if they find
that the tumor is positive for amarker that we now call her to
new, the person's usually goingto be also put on some
immunotherapy generally agentslike Herceptin and Perjeta drugs
that are commonly used now,which can last a year. So it's
quite an extensive process. Oncethey do that, then typically
(10:30):
radiation therapy follows andfollow finally, by endocrine
therapy, if that person has atumor, that's estrogen or
progesterone receptor positiveand those endocrine therapies,
typically, many people heardabout maybe tamoxifen, but
aromatase inhibitors would alsobe included in that group too.
Okay, that's a journey.
Brigitte Factor (10:51):
Yeah, that sounds like a lot. And I could
see why someone would want extrasupport through all of that, to
have, you know, just to evenhave your explanation of it. And
in, in presented in such acompassionate understanding way
to help them understand what'shappening. And in integrate,
(11:12):
like, you're like you're doingthe the process is the missing
piece part of it. That's, that'sreally wonderful. So what are
what are three of the biggestchallenges you see people with
breast cancer facing today?
Katrina Bogdon (11:27):
Yeah, well, I would say probably one of the
first things that I reallynoticed this, honestly, we're
just starting to learn moreabout as the post traumatic
stress that women experiencegoing through treatment, and how
traumatic that can be, as Imentioned, going through
treatment comes and goes fast.
And it can take out, it can bedifficult to process. And so you
know, and even ifpsychologically, you're like, I
(11:49):
know, I'm okay, I know that Godhas this, I'm held within this
standpoint to your bodyremembers a lot of this and
stores that trauma in a way. Andso it's not even necessarily
processed or cognitive. Butyeah, same time still feeling
these feelings of anxiety. Andso, you know, on the on the
worst side of this, thatsometimes can happen to is that
(12:12):
women get to the end oftreatment, and they're like, I
just want to forget about it, Idon't want to see another
doctor, I can't face it again.
And so those are instances towhere it's really important to
get some support, and somebodywho's a trauma trained
therapist, and how to workthrough and process some of
that. Because I have sadly seeninstances where, you know, we've
(12:34):
had a patient who couldn't facegoing back to see the doctor.
And then by the time that shedid see the doctor, it was all
over the lungs and allthroughout her bones. And so
it's important to get follow upcare and PTSD can be something
blocking that. The second thingthat I think that a lot of
people are facing with this isjust information overwhelm, the
(12:54):
amount of information that's onthe internet, and that friends
and family want to suggest aswell. And then social media
today to mention that you haveany condition on social media
and pop so many differentsuggestions and helpful people.
But it can be hard to discern,you know, through that
information. What is true, whatif it's misinformation? How do
(13:15):
we figure that out? And sothat's a lot of what I do is
helping people to kind of lookat, you know, where is there
good evidence, as far as thingsthat you could possibly do for
breast cancer, I'm sure thatthere are hundreds of things
that you could try or take. Butat the end of the day, you only
have so much money and so manysupplements or pills that you
can stomach. So making sure thatwe make wise choices that
(13:35):
probably have the best levels ofevidence, and choosing those
wisely so that it's good for youtoo. And then finally, to you
know, just trying to help toadjust to what they call the new
normal. I know a lot of peoplehate that term. But really, I
mean, a lot changes when you gothrough that diagnosis that
(13:55):
sometimes other your friends andyour peers can't relate to not
having gone through that sameexperience in there's changes in
your body image. Certainlychanges in libido and sexuality.
And those are not things thatoften we comfortably talk about
or can feel a little bit bashfulabout, but it's so important for
our health at the same time andthat often. A lot of people are
(14:17):
too embarrassed to bring that upto the doctors, but it is
important to look at and a lotof people are facing those
issues.
Brigitte Factor (14:24):
Yeah, I think that's I think that is important
that it's that you'rerecognizing that psychological
piece of it that can often getoverlooked, you know? And I can
understand that people would beoverwhelmed and then you add the
trauma part of that on top of itand then it can be really
(14:44):
complicated or hard for peopleto navigate. So I think that's
good and with a cancerdiagnosis. I'm sure people start
asking the question why. Right.
Right. So can you share a littlebit of light on what factors
actually drive cancer to developin the first place?
Katrina Bogdon (15:05):
Well, I think we can take at least some measure
of comfort and knowing thatcancer is a really complex and
multifactorial process, it'sgenerally not just one thing
that happens otherwise, I thinkwe'd see a lot more seven year
olds walking around with breastcancer. So luckily, you know, we
have so many safeguards that areput into place, but generally
(15:26):
cancers going to start with sometype of genomic instability or
DNA damage. And this could becaused by things that we call
carcinogens. And we'veidentified many things that can
begin that DNA damage, it may bea virus, such as epstein barr,
which many people have beenexposed to, it could be also
(15:46):
different chemicals, whetherit's gasoline, or bisphenol. And
we have exposure to these on avery regular basis. And
obviously, we don't all go on tohave cancer. And the reason why
that that is, is that, you know,in the wisdom of our bodies,
that there have been so manysafeguards put there to protect
us that our cells should go intoself destruct mode, what we call
(16:09):
a ptosis. When there is genomicinstability, DNA damage, so that
they don't go on to causeproblems such as cancer and
issues, that the immune systemshould be able to be on
surveillance and define thesecells and say, you are not
making and to get rid of thosecells and to not let them to
propagate that on. And then notonly that, when that damage
(16:32):
happens as well, generally, it'sbypasses a ptosis, and it
bypasses your immune system,then, you know, it's also can be
driven by situations wherethere's a lot of inflammation
going on. And also a situationwhere there are growth factors
that we've identified such ashigh insulin levels, estrogens.
(16:54):
So many things have to happen,and it's not going to grow most
cases right away. For many typesof breast cancer, you know, the
cancer is going to probably bepresent in your in your cells in
your body for two to five yearsbefore it's even big enough to
be seen. So it is it can be aslow process. And many things go
awry before it turns necessarilyinto cancer.
Brigitte Factor (17:17):
Yeah, it sounds like there's a lot that goes
into it. It's not just onething.
Katrina Bogdon (17:23):
Yeah, otherwise, I think I'd be neurotic.
Brigitte Factor (17:28):
Yeah, so you mentioned earlier about the
importance of having evidencebased treatments, because there
is so much information outthere. And we don't, you know,
want to waste our money onthings that may not help us and
are trying 1000 different thingsbefore we find the thing that
actually works. So how do youfind credible information for
(17:49):
your clients?
Katrina Bogdon (17:51):
Well, probably the place I start many times,
it's going to be pubmed.gov,which is a wonderful large
database of our peer reviewedpublished scientific journals,
and articles and whatnot. And ittakes a lot just to cross that
barrier. But as you covered, Ithink, in the very first episode
of your show, I mean, eventhough you get published, there
can still be a lot of poorquality studies out there, just
(18:12):
having something published isn'tenough that you'd have to look
at methodology and the type ofstudy and, you know, I think
looking at that, and I'vedefinitely I've heard one of the
criticisms or patients come backand they say, you know, my
oncologist said that there's noevidence for natural medicine.
There are 1000s of articles outthere on natural substances and
cancer. So, you know, I usuallystart out by typing in that
(18:36):
person's cancer type as well aswhat the agent is that they have
in question that they want toknow about. And we'll look and
we'll look at that study and seewhat is that level of evidence
as we as we begin to discernthat together if they have
questions about things. But Ialso use another database called
Natural Medicines database,which is a professional database
to look at interactions betweendrugs and supplements, and you
(19:00):
have to still use somediscernment in that to go back
and read the original studiesthat the claims are being based
on. So looking at how do yousafely combine these and I've
gotten a lot of my knowledge asbeing part of the Oncology
Association of NaturopathicPhysicians, they have a
wonderful database that they'rebuilding called the know
database, K N O W. And they'reusing that just to really help
(19:22):
to expand our understanding ofthe scientific evidence that's
out there for natural substancesand the quality of that evidence
as well as you know what cancertypes of treatments you can
safely use that with and whatdoesn't work too, as well as the
journal clubs, the conferences,the continuing education and
just the support that we lendamong ourselves in our
professional community whenquestions come up, and we can
(19:44):
ask each other, but probably theresource I would recommend the
most for patients and for peoplelistening today would be
something called B C C T thatstands for beyond conventional
cancer therapy dot NGO not dotcom, NGO, and it is a wonderful
website that has been puttogether by integrative medical
(20:06):
professionals who have looked atthe level of evidence for
different supplements lifestylemeasures food exercise. And so
in particular, for breastcancer, they've done a great job
and listing the quality ofevidence for each group so that
you can really read through anddiscern so and know that you're
going to be getting somethingthat has good, good information
(20:29):
behind it, not just anything offthe wild west of the internet.
From that perspective, the onlything I would caution though, of
course, is that before you startany supplements at all, make
sure that you run that by yourhealthcare professionals make
sure there are no interactionsand that it's safe for you to do
so.
Brigitte Factor (20:44):
Yeah, yeah. So what was that website? Again?
Katrina Bogdon (20:47):
It's called B C C T dot NGO, beyond conventional
cancer therapy,
Brigitte Factor (20:54):
okay. Okay.
We'll put that link in the shownotes for people to so they can
access that and see that. That'sreally wonderful. Thank you for
sharing that. So when we'retalking about cancer developing
and and, you know, a big part ofthat is prevention, like what
would be great if we could allfocus on prevention, right, but
sometimes that's not possible.
(21:17):
So what is one of the mostimportant powerful risk factors
that people can modify to reducethe risk of breast cancer
recurrence?
Katrina Bogdon (21:25):
Well, studies have found that exercise
probably has the most robusteffect on reducing breast cancer
occurrence and reoccurrence whenit comes to lifestyle. Exercise
can impact of course, yourhormone levels, insulin levels,
inflammation, and a metaanalysis of 22 prospective
cohort studies found that breastcancer mortality recurrence was
(21:47):
reduced by 41%, with exerciseafter breast cancer diagnosis.
And that's probably the biggesteffect that we've seen. It's
better than any supplement thatI'm gonna.
Brigitte Factor (21:57):
Wow, that's actually surprising to me that
it's that exercise. Yeah, hasthat big of an effect.
Katrina Bogdon (22:06):
It does. And yet, it can be one of the
hardest things to do. Right,they did another study kind of
following up with that. And theyfound that only about 13% of
breast cancer survivors areactually getting the recommended
amount, the amount that they'relooking for. And targeting in
many of these studies, issomewhere around 150 minutes per
week of moderately moderateintensity, which is to say that
(22:27):
you could exercise and stilltalk, but probably not belt out
a song.
Brigitte Factor (22:31):
Yeah. Okay. So 150 minutes a week is five 30
minutes sessions. So there yougo. Break it down, make it easy.
Absolutely. That's great. Sothere's there's our
encouragement to get get the getour movement and exercise on
Right. Absolutely. So you'veworked with a lot of cancer
(22:53):
patients, can you share some ofthe type of results that you've
seen with the care that youprovide?
Katrina Bogdon (22:59):
Absolutely, I mean, I think the short answer
to that is that we see peopleliving with fewer side effects
and a better quality of life.
But let's go ahead and maybeanswer this question in the form
of a story. And I'll tell itabout a client I'm going to call
ln, which is really acombination of to my clients,
since this is a local podcast,and I don't want to divulge too
much there. But Ellen's in hermid 40s. She's had a lot of
(23:21):
stress in her life. pandemicscertainly has not helped and,
and she really came not wantingto do a conventional approach.
She's using natural approachmost of her life. This was
really scary to her. From thatstandpoint. By the time I saw
her, she had already hadsurgery, and I met with her
medical oncologist. But when shetalked about her concerns to her
(23:45):
medical oncologist, herecommended that she worked with
me. And so that really gave hera lot of comfort, knowing that
she could actually pick anintegrative approach and meet
halfway in between and get thebest of both of those worlds.
And so when we first met, I hadthe privilege of really getting
to know what Ellen's story was.
And we discussed an evidencebased approach of what we could
(24:08):
recommend to do along withchemotherapy and to safely
integrate that and to supportthe effectiveness and safety of
her treatment. Ellen herself wasvery fortunate to go on and to
not to experience very few sideeffects and was actually able to
work during chemotherapy, whichwas amazing. Not everybody is as
lucky as Ellen when I work withthem. I have some people who
(24:29):
really do struggle with nausea.
And in those cases, we foundthat generally they'll eat a bit
lighter, stay pretty hydrated acouple of days before treatment,
they start to do a lot better.
So there are some things that wecan do in those cases. Ellen
then had a month off ofchemotherapy before she started
her radiation therapy. And so wework together to protect the
healthy tissue and increase theeffects of radiation on the
(24:52):
tumor using evidence basedstrategies with supplements and
I also really stress at thattime the importance of doing
exercise to help and radiationcan make you feel really tired,
particularly about halfwaythrough and then some weeks
after. And so by getting out andexercising, you're actually
increasing the number ofmitochondria and getting them to
function better, you're makingmore ATP and feeling that energy
(25:15):
within the cell. And so thatreally does help a lot of people
by staying physically activeduring radiation therapy. And
then finally, she startedendocrine therapy with an
aromatase inhibitor called theAromadex. And she noticed that
when she started that shestarted to feel a lot more
depressed, she had increasedjoint pain and hot flashes. And
so we really work together tomitigate those side effects of
(25:37):
her treatment. So it was a lotmore tolerable. And today, she's
a lot happier, she's in a lotless pain, she still has the hot
flashes, but she says they'revery tolerable, and not anywhere
near as bad as they used to be.
And so at this point in ourcareer together, we're looking
at lifestyle factors such asexercise and stress management,
and how to reduce harmfulenvironmental exposures.
Brigitte Factor (25:58):
Okay, that's excellent. I love hearing that.
How you're helping peoplenavigate through these
challenges that they're having,and you're providing this truly
holistic approach for them. Butat the same time, you're
providing a high level of careand quality in the care that you
provide as well. And I thinkthat is, is rare. It is in that
(26:26):
you're coming alongside thesepatients, making it less scary
for them, giving them hope thatit is doable, that there are
things that they can do to helpmitigate side effects and make
it doable for them that theycan't get through it to the
other side of this. So ifsomebody is interested in
learning more about working withyou, how can they reach out to
(26:47):
you?
Katrina Bogdon (26:48):
Well, the best way to reach me is through my
website, at ourhealingroots.net.
So that's O U R the word healingand then roots like roots of a
tree with an S on the end dotnet not dot com. And it's really
easy on the website to see thebutton, you just click book, a
discovery call. And I reallyenjoy doing those because it
helps me to make sure thatwhoever I'm going to work with
(27:08):
it's truly a good fit, and thatwe're going to really offer them
what they're looking for fromthat standpoint. So we do offer
that free discovery call. And aspeople sign up to do that we
have you fill out the intakepaperwork. So before we even
meet, I read, I look at what'sgoing on with you and can speak
knowledgeably and with someconfidence of what's going on
(27:29):
and what I could offer.
Brigitte Factor (27:32):
That's wonderful ourhealingroots.net
and we will put that link in theshow notes as well so people can
click on that easily. Well, thishas been a really great
conversation. And I've learned alot and I'm excited to share
this information. And I hopethat this reaches a lot of
people who are looking forsupport that they need. So thank
(27:55):
you so much for being on mypodcast. And till next time,
Grace and peace to you.
Katrina Bogdon (28:01):
Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be
here.
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