April 1, 2025 • 57 mins
Walker Witt embodies the dream that many eastern hunters hold close—leaving everything behind to build a life in the western mountains. After growing up hunting whitetails and turkeys in Pennsylvania, Walker packed his bags the summer after high school graduation and headed to Montana to guide elk hunts. He never looked back.
Walker brings a unique background to his guiding career. A bull rider since age 17—initially hiding competitions from his concerned mother—he carries that same grit into the mountains. This resilience served him well when he was thrown into guiding responsibilities after another guide abandoned their hunting party. Despite being new to elk country, Walker's hunting instincts proved strong, and he quickly adapted to calling in bulls and reading elk behavior in the thick northwestern forests.
The conversation delves into fascinating insights about western hunting. Walker explains how herd bulls in thick timber typically manage only about a dozen cows compared to 30-60 in open country due to visibility limitations. He shares his philosophy that "you can fool an elk's eyes and his ears, but you'll never fool his nose," emphasizing wind strategy above all else. Eastern turkey hunters, he notes, often make superior elk guides because their calling experience transfers perfectly to elk hunting scenarios.
Perhaps most captivating is Walker's passion for hound hunting. Starting with beagles for rabbits in Pennsylvania, he now runs hounds for mountain lions and bears in Montana and Idaho. He explains the surprising fact that mountain lions typically tree quickly (within 600-800 yards) because their muscular bodies can't sustain prolonged oxygen demands—contrary to bears that might lead hunters on 20-mile pursuits. His recent work removing a problem cougar that was killing livestock and pets highlights the practical conservation role that hunters play in managing predator populations.
Whether you're an aspiring western hunter, fascinated by predator hunting, or simply enjoy authentic stories from the mountains, Walker's journey from Pennsylvania bull rider to Montana wilderness guide offers a genuine look at what it takes to pursue a life committed to the outdoors. Listen now to experience hunting wisdom earned through years in some of America's most challenging terrain.
Check us out on Facebook and instagram Hunts On Outfitting, and also our YouTube page Hunts On Outfitting Podcast. Tell your hunting buddies about the podcast if you like it, Thanks!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
this is hunts on outfitting podcast.
I'm your host and rookie guide,ken marr.
I love everything hunting theoutdoors and all things
associated with it, from storiesto how-tos.
You'll find it here.
Welcome to the podcast.
All right, thanks for joiningus on this week's podcast.
We're happy to have youlistening, as always, and we
(00:34):
hope that you share us out withyour friends and family.
All right, so this week on thepodcast we get to meet Walker
Witt.
Who is he?
He's a bull riding elk callinglion chasing guide.
That we get to hear all aboutin this week's podcast.
We hope you enjoy, All right.
Yeah, Walker, I mean thanks fortaking my call, and it was
interesting last week talking toyou and finding a bit about who
(00:58):
you are, and then we weresupposed to do a podcast
yesterday but you got stuck.
You were getting trail camerasat the mountain, were you?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, yeah, I was.
Seems like I'm stuck in thesnow more than I'm getting to do
anything up there.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
So, walker, you're living right now was it right by
Idaho?
But you're in Montana, yep, yep, but that's not where you're
originally from.
You're originally fromPennsylvania, and then, if you
want to take it from there, Imean it kind of sounds like
you're living the American dream.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, I guess.
So yeah, I grew up in southwestPennsylvania hunting and
fishing and all that stuff andthen the summer after high
school I just packed my bags andheaded out to Montana to guide
elk hunts.
And yeah, it's pretty muchhistory from there.
(01:59):
I went back my first winter, Iwent back home, and then I come
back out that spring and thennever went back.
My first winter I went backhome and then I come back out
that spring and then never wentback.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
So the rest is history, yeah, I mean.
So what did you grow up hunting, mainly in Pennsylvania, like
what got you into wanting topursue elk and guide for them?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
You know, I was thinking about that there the
other day, um, and I, I don'tknow, I kind of just always had
like a some sort of drive forwestern hunting.
Um, because really in the eastall we got, you know, white tail
and turkeys and, uh, some bears, um small game, but, um, my, my
(02:43):
dad went on an elk hunt incolorado when I was like nine or
ten and he, whenever he gotback, he was telling all the
stories you know, he was likethey slept in hammocks or
whatever.
They hiked up in the mountains,slept in hammocks and hunted,
um, and just seeing the picturesthat he took, like I don't know
, I could not wait to do it oneof these days.
(03:05):
And, uh, I don't know, I wantedto make money hunting.
Um, you know, I I started ayoutube channel, I did some
stuff with the pursuit channelin high school, um, and then I
kind of just figured, you know,the tv hunting industry is is
really fake, what I found out.
So, yeah, I was like you know,I want TV hunting industry is
really fake, that's what I foundout.
So I was like, you know, I wantto do the real deal.
(03:27):
So guiding was pretty much myoption to make money hunting.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Yeah, and then too I mean yeah,so that's what got the?
You know the bug in you for elk.
It was just having your dad goout and then seeing that.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
And that's you know.
You're like, well, there'snothing in Pennsylvania like
that and I'd sure like to get onone.
Yeah, yeah, he like he hadpictures of these birds they
were feeding, like the birdswould sit in their hands, and
just the pictures of themountains.
And and he like he was shotgrouse for his dinner the one
night with his bow.
I thought that was awesome,because the grouse population in
pennsylvania is like almostcompletely gone because of
predators.
Um, and then same thing, likehe was catching trout out of the
(04:14):
streams and eating it andpennsylvania only has stock of
trout.
So it's like, oh, I don't know,I thought it was awesome, just
how wild.
It was awesome, just how wildit was, I think.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Um, yeah, yeah, the West, I mean it obviously
compared, pennsylvania isbeautiful, but I mean the West
is just, I guess you could say,breathtaking, you know just the
big skies and all that.
And then, um, but you too,another interesting thing about
you so you were a bull rider, uh, through high school and
everything in Pennsylvania,cause I thought maybe it took
that up at West, cause it's, youknow, it's a Western thing.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
But that's not where it started.
Yeah, I uh, I actually startedwhen I was 17.
Um, and I was, so my mom, Iwanted to do it like my whole
life.
My mom wouldn't let me do it,wouldn't let me do it.
She was like you're not, youknow, she didn't want me to get
(05:09):
hurt or whatever.
So I had a buddy, that kind ofrode bulls, and I talked to him
or whatever, and we, we, I justpretty much signed up because
you're supposed to be 18, butthere's so many rodeos back
there that they don't ever get aparent's signature, like you
just sign it and say you're 18.
They don't check for anyidentification or nothing.
So I actually just yeah, and andI rode bulls like every single
(05:31):
weekend for two, three monthswithout my mom knowing.
It was kind of funny becausebull riding you, you got like
your rigging bag or whatever.
So I just had like this duffelbag of stuff that was slowly
growing like of all my ridinggear and I'd be like like I
don't know what I was eventelling her.
I remember one time I told herwe were going to a concert and
(05:52):
I'm like walking out the doorwith a cowboy hat and a duffel
bag and it's like okay, but butthen she found out so she wasn't
very happy but she got over it.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah well, did you have any like major injuries or
anything that you had to try tolike hide from her, or you got
lucky?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
So I have been pretty fortunate with the riding.
Really, I just got in with likethe right type of dude Cause if
you get in with the wrong guys,they they just want to throw
you on stuff that kills you.
And the guys I got in with youknow they, they taught us.
You know, yeah, you want to begritty and if you can grit out a
(06:34):
bull and get your ride and doit, but you also don't want to
stay an extra jump for two andthen it sucks you underneath of
it and you're getting brokenlegs and arms and lacerated
livers and all that.
So I'd been pretty fortunateenough to where I, as soon as I
would get my hips rocked out, Iwould just jump off and, uh, get
(06:55):
out of there.
But most of the time if I gothurt it was a knockout or a
concussion type of deal.
Um, I haven't been stepped on aton, you know.
Usually you know I'll get a legor something stepped on.
But usually when I would gethurt it was because I would go
over the front and the bullwould.
(07:16):
I would hit my face off of itshorns.
Um, but the worst one I everhad I think it was two years ago
and I actually flew back topennsylvania for a week to ride
with my brother and all mybuddies, I guess for old time's
sake.
And yeah, I, I, uh, I actuallydrew a bull that I have been on
(07:43):
one time before and I knew Icould ride them and I took them
to like seven seconds and I wentover the front and all I wear
is like a $80 hockey helmet.
It really doesn't do anythingbut protect your face from
getting scratches.
I guess it really doesn't keepyou from getting knocked out,
(08:03):
but uh, yeah, I like it hit me,keep you from getting knocked
out.
But uh, yeah, I like it hit me,his horn, hit me right on the
temple, and then I just likefell off the side and I don't
remember anything except for thebullfighter coming up to me and
being like just stay rightthere.
And you know, usually when youhit the dirt you're like trying
to get out of there.
But I was really conscious, Idon't know I all I remember
(08:26):
being on the ground on a balland the bullfighter being like
just stay there.
And then I don't rememberanything else for about an hour
and I remember we picked up mybuddy from his college.
I didn't even know he was there.
He come up behind me and I waslike what are you doing here,
jesse?
He was like bro I rode herewith and they were asking me
(08:46):
questions.
I didn't remember anything,didn't know where the car was,
didn't know the day of the week,and I've been knocked out
probably like 25 times, 30 times, and I've never had it that bad
.
And that one was like man, Imight be in some trouble here,
but yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
So I mean in some trouble here.
Yeah, so I mean, are you stilldoing it some?
You said it's not where you'reat in Montana, surprisingly.
I mean I think that is the Westbull riding, but you said
there's not as much in your areaas there is in Pennsylvania
where you grew up.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, so where I grew up in Pennsylvania, I could go
two hours any direction and Icould ride four or five days a
week.
But out here, I think, justbecause it's so remote, like
there's one over in Kalispellwhich is like two and a half
hours away, and that's really itin the wintertime, but in the
(09:43):
summertime there's a bunch offair rodeos but they made them
all prca which you got to go geta card and all that stuff which
I did just finally get my prcacard notarized and all that, so
I could go do that this summer.
But, um, it was kind of hardfor me, just because I don't
like it's tough with guidingbecause I try not to get hurt
(10:06):
right before hunting season.
Yeah, I was gonna ask, yeah,yeah, so like I would start
getting really, really good andbeing able to ride stuff
consistently and then guideseason would come up and I would
quit riding for three, fourmonths and then go get back on
and I would have to pretty muchrestart again.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
But uh yeah, yeah, I mean it's quite a bit.
Uh yeah, it's a lot to it.
It's funny too, you see, atsome bull riding events and all
that and I've been fortunateenough to be able to go to, uh,
the pbrs come out my way beforeand you've got sometimes you've
got the animal rights activistsprotesting saying it's cruel to
the bulls, and I'll tell, tellyou, those bulls, they are well
(10:46):
looked after, as I'm sure youknow, and they are fine.
It's the cowboys that take thebeating.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
And a lot of people just don'tget it Like they try to say that
they tie the flank strap aroundtheir balls.
Yeah, it's a common myth.
Yeah, it's called a flank straparound their balls.
Yeah, it's a common myth.
Yeah, it's called a flank strap.
All it is is, you know, it justgives the bull something to
kick at.
It's like a soft cotton ropeand it's just right against
(11:17):
their flank so they can kick atit.
And if you watch any bull, assoon as that flank strap comes
off they quit kicking.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Yeah, and I think a lot of people don't realize
either that these aren't justrandom barnyard bulls.
These are, like you know, bredfor generations specifically for
bucking.
These aren't the ones thatyou're going to see necessarily
out, you know, breedingsomeone's angus cattle or
something like that right, right, yeah, these things are
athletes yeah, yeah, no.
That, yeah, no.
That's really cool.
(11:45):
So you leave Pennsylvania andyou head out west because you
want to guide elk there.
I mean, how did you find theoutfitter to work with, and what
was your first season like?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
So I found the outfitter I work with.
I kind of knew of them throughmy dad, but I also I went to the
outdoor, outdoor show, talkedto some outfitters or whatever,
and they they pretty much, uh,were like, yeah, whatever, we'll
take you on as an apprentice,um, apprentice packers, what
(12:18):
they call.
I I just pretty much left.
I I was so dumb because I leftat like six or seven at night,
well, I mean whatever.
But yeah, once I, once I gotout here, uh, they pretty much
(12:40):
were like, yeah, you got tolearn the area, whatever.
So I just hiked every singleday.
I probably put 50, 60 miles onin a week just trying to learn
country and everything.
And then my first two weeks Ishadowed a guide and then the
people I worked for, the wife,got in a fight with one of the
(13:03):
guides.
It was a huge ordeal which thisguide he kind of had been a
pain in the butt, um, and heactually left us on the mountain
, which that's like number onerule you don't leave, you don't
leave nobody on the mountain.
Yeah, we're.
I think it was like my third orfourth day there we were.
(13:23):
The outfitter owner was like,why don't you guys go hike this
area because he was kind of newI think he was his second year
but he come around like we.
It was like a giant bowl.
We walked around and then wewere dropping back down to the
truck and like the kid just leftus which I think the kid he
(13:45):
actually got fired at anotheroutfitter before for his
attitude and all this stuff andhe was lazy yeah, he was very
lazy, but yeah, yeah.
So what happened was he got madbecause we were hiking ahead of
him.
He couldn't like keep up withus and we were just kind of
trying to blaze this, which hewasn't that far behind us he's
probably 10 yards behind us, buthe didn't like that and then he
(14:09):
just like got mad and left,just completely dove off the
side of the mountain and we werelike where the heck is he at?
And so we waited for him forlike an hour, cause we had
planned on meeting at this onespot and then dropping straight
down through these cliffs to thetruck, and he just show up.
(14:29):
So we were like, okay, well,let's just go to the truck,
maybe he's there.
And we got to the truck and hewasn't there and then, like 20
minutes later, he just pops outof the bushes and he's like I've
been watching you guys andwe're like what.
I've been watching you guys andwe're like what.
But yeah, then I think it waslike two days after that he got
(14:53):
in a fight with the owner's wife.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
He was gone.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
I don't know, yeah, they were like hey, pretty much
we need you.
So and I it's kind of funnyCause like hey, pretty much we
need you.
It's kind of funny because Igrew up hunting, I know how to
hunt, but I'm hunting elk in acompletely different country,
but I knew enough and theypretty much just threw me to the
(15:18):
wolves.
I think we seen a spike bullwhich can't shoot spikes in that
unit.
Um, on the second day of thehunt and the client I had, he
was a like a commercial hiker, Iguess you could call it, I
don't know he that was like hishobby was hiking, like he went
(15:39):
all around the country and worldto national parks to hike and
he was actually trying to go toevery single national park in
the world or country or whateverand and hike there.
And he has like stickers onwhatever his water bottle, on
his truck and all that.
Oh yeah, but he wasn't, he wasactually from Pennsylvania too
(16:00):
and, uh, I actually found it waskind of interesting because my
first day ever guiding a client,I found two elk sheds and I
think it was three white tailsheds, which is insane.
Yeah, that's really cool.
But um, yeah, pretty much weseen a spike on the second day
and then we seen nothing untilthe very last day.
(16:21):
And you know that was one ofthe hardest things I learned.
Being a guide is like keepingyour clients morale up.
It goes so such a far way,especially in this country.
It's so steep and thick, guyscan't really hack it very often.
Um, and this guy, he was a youknow hiker and his boots were
(16:42):
chewing him up, giving himblisters, because you know we're
sidehailing, we're not on atrail like he's used to, I guess
.
Um, and I actually called in asix by seven to him.
Um, we hiked probably like twomiles just down this trail.
I wanted to check out this bowlbecause I knew there had been
(17:03):
elk in and there were somewallows in the bottom.
And I just hit a cow call andthis bull just erupted with like
a growl, and so I don't know, Ididn't know a ton, so I just
bugled, I challenged, bugled thebull as like a little yeah, as
(17:23):
like a little as yeah, as like alittle raghorn, tried to make
it sound really.
And then he, but he did notlike that, he, uh, he actually
lip balled at me, and so whenthey lip ball, that's them
rounding up their cows.
That means they're either goingto push their cows and run away
from you, or they're going topush their cows away and come
(17:45):
down and fight you.
That way you can't get inbetween him and his cows.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Because if you ever get in between a bull and his
cows it's dead.
Like you can kill it 1,000%.
But he pushed his cows up theridge about 400 yards, bugled
where he last.
His last bugle was where Iguess he left them and I was
like, looking at my client, Iwas like either we're gonna have
(18:12):
to take off after him or he'sgonna come back.
And then, sure enough, about 30seconds later he bugles me
about 200 yards closer and thenhe just went silent.
But like at at this point, um,I could see trees that he rubbed
and I had a raking horn.
I was raking all the trees.
I was like, yeah, like tryingto make them know this is, this
(18:32):
is my territory now.
And, um, he was double bugling,he was not happy, growling, he
come down and he was about 80yards away when he last bugled.
And then he come right into thehiking trail and he was 34 yards
(18:52):
broadside my client's full dropand then he stood there and was
looking around for probablyfive, ten seconds and he turned
and walked straight up the trailat my client, where he was my
client's full draw, in themiddle of the trail, and he's
walking straight at him and hestops at.
I think it was like 14 yards,and then it turned broadside
(19:14):
again and then he was going togo check our wind, which was to
the left.
The bull had been coming fromthe right and our thermals were
sucking out.
There was a creek behind us soit was sucking out that creek
bottom.
And you know, the bull, I don'tknow he was broadside there for
about five seconds maybe andthen he went into the brush and
(19:36):
there was no shot and then hewent right into our scent cone
and boom gone.
And the whole time I'm like, ohmy gosh, I'm gonna be the first
kill of the year, like and thisis a massive bull, I'm like I'm
just waiting for the, for thebow to go off and hear the flack
, but guy never shot, I don'tknow which.
(19:57):
You see that a lot with guys isthey freeze up.
And my philosophy I guess youcould call it on it is we always
said there's killers andthere's hunters, and the killers
kill and the hunters hunt.
And I think that was thesituation Because you know, like
(20:17):
we would have Am clients, uh,that would come out and hunt and
they nothing gets past them,they don't freeze up, they, they
kill stuff and that you canusually tell you know with guys,
as soon as you get them, you'llbe like, okay, this guy's gonna
kill something and this guy'sgonna, really it's gonna.
It's gonna be tough if this guygets a shot, you know, because,
(20:39):
yeah, I don't know what it is Idon't know, guides, intuition,
but that's neat.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
I've heard that before about the almish.
Actually I've heard they'relike when they go to hunt
they're, they're gettingsomething yeah, they don't care.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah, they do not care so I mean, that's wild.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
So your first ever guided hunt for elk you had, you
didn't just have any old client, you had a guy that was hunting
bow too.
Yeah, yeah, that's, yeah, evenmore difficult yeah, yeah, yeah,
I've actually become a.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
That's actually my bread and butter, usually
archery elk hunting.
Okay, I'm not big on.
I'm not big on the riflehunting, I think, because I grew
up turkey hunting.
That's what they all say.
All the outfitters here in thewest say they would rather train
a guy from the east that was aturkey hunter on elk and train a
guy that grew up there on elkand because he tries to follow
(21:34):
what his grandpa said and heknows better type of deal.
But if you're from the east andthe outfitter takes you from
there, you got all theexperience from calling setups
on turkeys and then they canimplement it and turn it into
elk hunting and usually that'sthe best elk hunters in the
country is your eastern turkeyhunters that they can morph into
(21:57):
an elk hunter really huh,that's interesting now so I know
I'm going on some turkey huntsthis spring and I'm quite
excited, first time I know.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
One big thing I've been told is that turkeys have
incredible eyesight.
Does that like?
Speaker 2 (22:10):
do elk rely on their eyes quite a lot too, or more
their nose so you can fool elk'seyes and his ears, but he won't
never fool his nose, right they.
If you don't got the wind right, it's not happening.
And yeah, that was a big thing.
Uh, to learn too, I mean.
(22:32):
Obviously I knew I needed toplay the wind, but it seemed
like all the times I would callan elk especially the older they
they would always wind checkyou first.
They always run downwind.
So I kind of started makingdifferent setups.
You know, because you can hearthe elk coming, they're not
quiet walking through the woods,they don't.
(22:54):
Sometimes they'll sneak in.
It's crazy how quiet they canbe if they want to be.
But usually they come throughand you can hear twigs snapping
and they're just like blowingthrough the brush.
And you can come hear themcoming from like 150 yards away,
okay, and then I can be likeyou know, hey, get over here,
over here.
Or you know, if the bull'sbugling, you know two, three
(23:17):
hundred yards away, I'm like,hey, if he's going to come in,
this is where you need to be,because I can maneuver myself on
the other side of the client toput the client in between me
and the bull and then alsofactor in the wind.
So say if the wind was blowingdown, uh, that bull's going to
try to come below my my calls totry to win.
(23:41):
Check to see if I'm a bull or ahunter.
Okay, so I can put my client inthe right place to shoot it
whenever it comes by to get thewin.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Here's a question for you then,walker Do you believe in all
the scent eliminator stuff,clothings, all that?
Speaker 2 (24:01):
so.
So this is interesting.
I grew up you know I would, Iwould spray down whatever, yeah,
but out here you're hiking somuch it doesn't matter what you
smell like, because you're goingto smell like sweat in about 30
minutes anyways.
(24:21):
Um, all you can do is play thewind because you even if if you
could have the best scenteliminator is you're a living
human being, so you're gonnaconstantly be producing scent
and they're gonna smell youeither way.
But, um, I actually, uh, therewas a I think it was a podcast a
(24:42):
guy did and he he brought uplike hounds, you know, hunting
hounds, dogs, um, and then deerand elk and bear, and he
compared there's something inthe nose that you can compare
how good it can smell.
I don't remember exactly butscent receptacles, I think,
(25:04):
something like yeah, it was likea hundred times what a hound
dog can smell is, yeah, what adeer elk can smell and I'm like,
yeah, there's no way you'regonna beat its nose, like I
don't care what you put onyourself I agree completely.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I just wanted to see.
I have this argument withfriends and stuff from time to
time.
I think it's just a gimmick,like you said.
I forget how many more timespowerful a deer's nose is
compared to a bloodhound, likeyou're not fooling it.
I just wanted to see what youthought, though.
Hunting them.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Right, I've seen bears have winded me 400 yards
away.
Yeah, so it's like you know.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yeah, yeah, no, exactly.
Um, it's interesting.
So, like Morel, like you'resaying, yeah, just trying to
keep a high, like all you know,just one more ridge to go, like
we're almost there.
Are you kind of doing that thewhole time with some people?
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Yeah, some guys, they just a a lot of guys.
It seems like to me they havethe physicality, like they have
the physical ability to do it,but they do not.
They can't keep the mentalthere.
So if you can get guys that youcan get to overcome you know,
because obviously usually whatit is.
It's so weird because yourfirst mile you are hurting, I
(26:17):
don't know what it is.
It's so weird because yourfirst mile you are hurting, I
don't know what it is.
Your body is like trying toacclimate is what I call it.
But after the first mile ofhiking it seems like which I've
talked to guys about this, likeother guides, we talk about it
all the time After the firstmile it's like your body gets
acclimated, which everybody justcalls it a second wind mile.
(26:40):
It's like your body getsacclimated, which everybody just
calls it a second wind.
But I think your body just getsacclimated to what it's working
, what you should be doing,because you know, even like
working out or whatever it seemslike after.
I guess it could just be calleda warm-up.
Once your body's warmed up,then yeah, you kind of just go.
It's not that big of a dealbecause usually the first mile
is miserable.
Your body's hurting, your legsare burning, you're sweating,
(27:02):
you're out of breath, and thenit's like, all of a sudden, that
switch flips and you're good togo yeah, no, that that makes
sense.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Uh, good question too about uh, because I might be
going on a hunt this fall withuh in the mountains.
Um, what?
What kind of boots are you ifsomebody, if a client, calls you
before they come out andthey're like I don't have a pair
of boots yet, obviously wearthem quite a bit before they
come on the hunt with you, butwhat kind of boots are you
recommending, like somethingwaterproof, hikers, that
combination but what?
(27:32):
Brand.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Personally so.
Schnee boots I think they'reout of Bozeman, montana.
They give guides 50 off.
So I I my first year coming out.
I actually had christy bootsand then I switched to shnaes
because christy only gives 25off and we try to support the
companies that support us typeof deal.
(27:56):
But this I loved.
I had their, their granite, andthen I had their better two.
They were great boots, um, butthis year, well, yeah, this year
actually got their mission bootand I hated them.
I've loved every boot I've hadfrom them, but this year that
(28:18):
boot it it uh, the first week Iwore it in archery season
because, like, I'll wear it likerunning dogs and bear season
kind of like just getting myboots kind of broken all summer
for elk reason yeah and thefirst week of elk season the
thread on the back completelycome apart and I had blisters.
(28:41):
So bad because that hole was itmade, the, that fabric, leather,
go inwards yeah and it rubbedthe back of my my feet so bad
and I had blisters on the backof my feet and made me miserable
.
And then they wouldn't theyactually didn't replace them, uh
, for some reason, I don't knowwhy.
(29:02):
Um, yeah, that kind of made memad, which I hate to talk bad on
them because they've made mephenomenal boots, you know, but
that I don't know what it waswith that pair of boots, the
thread just like come undone,and I mean the hole was probably
, I don't know, inch and a halfby inch and a half big.
(29:23):
Oh, big enough, yeah, yeah, solike you know they're 500 booth.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
They should stand behind their product.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Yeah, absolutely yeah , but this year I think I'm
going to go back to crispies.
Um, personally, I thinkcrispies are the most
comfortable boot there is.
Um, but the schnee's seem to bea little bit more waterproof,
just because the schnee's arekind of more one piece of
leather rather than the crispiesare a couple pieces of leather.
(29:52):
Okay, yeah, um, but kenna trexI've heard a lot of good things
about kenna trex.
Kind of well, some people don'tlike them, some people like
them.
I think it's kind of just aChevy Ford type of deal.
Oh yeah, yeah, any of thosethree brands, you'll be just
fine.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Okay, no, I was curious, especially somebody
that spends as much time in themas you do.
You would definitely be what Iconsider an expert to know.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
You know what pair of boots, yeah what I consider an
expert to know you know whatpair of boots.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
So another thing with your bull, the elk, hunting.
So is it normal, like so onebull will have a whole group of
cows just to himself and he'llkeep the other bulls away, and
like how many would be in thatgroup?
Roughly, or it depends on thearea.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
So yeah, it kind of actually depends on the area.
So where we're at in thenorthwest it's so thick that
we've talked about this before.
So if you go over to likebozeman or somewhere where it's
real open, you'll see a bull sothat's called a herd bull.
That's usually the biggest,that's the dominant bull.
He'll have several cows withthem and then you'll have
(30:58):
satellite bulls and then, likeyour little raghorn bulls that
come in they'll try to steal acow away or breed one or
whatever.
Um, but over there you'll seeherd bulls with 60 cows, 30 cows
, 40 cows, but over here I thinkthe most we've ever seen in the
woods is like 12 cows with thebull, because I we think they
(31:23):
just can't keep track of thembecause you can only see 30
yards and yeah, so it's kind ofhard for him to keep track of
them.
If he did have that many another, you know, a satellite bull is
going to come right throughthere and steal half of them
real quick yeah, no, that makessense.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
So yeah, kind of curious about that.
The thicker it is, the lesscows the bull would be in charge
of.
Yeah yeah, yeah, that'sinteresting.
Yeah, I can't believe you'refirst guided elk hunt and you're
new to it and you've got a guyshooting a bow.
I mean it just makes it thatmuch harder.
You can tell you're a bullrider, I guess, because just
gritty and tough, because werethe outfitters that you were
(32:00):
working for were they kind ofimpressed?
You know, you've got this kidfrom Pennsylvania, just doesn't
know.
Anybody comes out here and saysyou know, I want to hunt, I
want to guide for elk, andyou're just running up and down
the mountains, just learning theterrain and all that.
I mean it shows a lot ofinitiative really.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah, yeah for sure.
So really yeah, yeah for sure.
I uh.
So this is kind of funny.
The outfitter that I had workedfor they were actually the guy
was from pennsylvania too, andhe grew up like really really
around the area I grew up in.
So it's kind of interesting.
Yeah, but he's been doing itfor 20 years and he actually
(32:37):
left the summer after highschool as well, when he was 18.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Oh, that's.
Neat, Small world, really small.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Yeah, and he actually rode bulls as well and he
actually owned bucking bulls fora while.
Oh, that's kind of interesting.
But yeah, my first year guidingwas his first year owning an
outfit.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Okay, so yeah, that's neat.
Are you know both coming uptogether in that sense with you
know different areas of thebusiness?
Yeah, yeah um, yeah, that'sreally cool.
So, uh, now you know I want toget into.
Um, you know what you and Iboth love the most the, uh, the
hound hunting.
So, uh, you run, you're onmountain lion and you Bears, but
(33:19):
your start was you started withBeagles in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Yep, yep, yeah, I actually.
I always wanted a coon dog orwhatever, which I don't know if
that started with, you know,watching that show, the Mountain
Men or whatever, that rich guyon there he would run mountain
vines, um, on that show.
(33:45):
I thought that was awesome, um,and I never was allowed to have
a coon dog.
So, but my dad's brother and mymom's brother, dad's brother
and my mom's brother, they bothhad two or not coon dogs, they
had rabbit dogs, beagles, andyou know I don't know.
I just thought that was cooltoo, but something about coon
(34:07):
hunting, I don't know whatever.
But yeah, rabbits, I.
I ended up my one uncle got outof rabbit dogs and he had one, a
one-year-old or a two-year-oldbeagle, and he called, or no,
his wife called my mom and waslike, hey, does Walker want a
beagle or whatever.
You know she started on rabbitsthis and that I was just like
(34:32):
please, please, please.
They were pretty much like,yeah, I mean you promised to
take care of it.
Then whatever, just went fromthere.
I hunted all the time.
I can just remember every day Iwould get off school pretty
much in the wintertime.
I would have the dogs and go,because where I lived at the
(34:57):
time, I could walk right acrossthe road and then about 200
yards down, there's a patch oftimber that's loaded with
rabbits, and every day, as soonas I got off the school bus, I
didn't care if I had homework ornot.
I wouldn't do it.
I would just go up and get thedog and the 20-gauge and run
across the road until darkpretty much.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, it's a pilot fun.
I love running mines.
Do you guys have?
Uh, is it cottontail orsnowshoe hair out there?
Do you guys have?
I know some areas have bothyeah, so some areas have both.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Where I was at, I don't think I ever seen snowshoe
.
There have been rumors, likeyou know, that there were some,
but I never seen one.
It was all cottontail.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Okay, yeah, they're.
Uh, they're smaller.
Like we have snowshoe hare andwe run them, They'll run really
big but they won't burrow.
I guess sometimes with thecottontail they'll.
They'll run so long and thenthey'll just burrow.
Yeah, Yep, Try to get thembefore that.
Uh, so then, yes, you startedwith the beagles, never had the
coonhound, and then so was it.
You got into the big houndsonce you moved and were working
(36:02):
for that outfitter.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yeah, so my first year, it was my first or second
year, or no, it was my secondyear because so they in the area
I was at they wouldn't let youhunt mountain lions with dogs
unless you drew the tag.
And we got a new biologist andhe opened it up.
(36:26):
He was like we got way too manyof these things.
He opened it up.
So then the outfitter was ableto just do lion hunts over the
counter on a quota tag and thefirst year I think they allowed
14 or 15 lions to get killed.
But yeah, I went and Iabsolutely loved it.
I was like this is awesome,like I'm definitely getting the
(36:48):
dog for sure.
And yeah, pretty much that wasthat I I helped to guide those
lion hunts, um all that December.
And then I actually right atthe towards the end of those
lion hunts, um all that december, and then I actually right at
the towards the end of thoselion hunts, I met my girlfriend
and she had grew up houndhunting and her dad had hounds
(37:09):
and everything else and yeah,then I was pretty much just like
, yeah, I'm getting a, getting ahound as soon as I'm able to.
And then it was was about sixor seven months and I went and
picked up two hound dog puppiesand I guess it's history from
there.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
What breed did you go with?
Speaker 2 (37:31):
So I actually got a red bone from down Nez Perce,
idaho way, okay.
And then I got a plot walkacross and that seems to be a
lot of guys around here.
That's their breed, becausethey're like, you know, he's got
(37:51):
the grittiness of the plot, buthe's as smart as a walker.
You know, guys out here seem tobe real about the, what color
it is and what breed does thisor whatever, which it holds some
fruit.
But I mean there's good, badand all of it.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
So yeah, uh, you don't see a lot of red bones I
don't anyways, in the pictureson um, on lions, like are they a
common breed out there or no?
Speaker 2 (38:18):
they uh they actually are pretty.
They're probably the leastpopular breed, I would say,
cause usually guys have walkersor plots and that's your two,
you know most popular.
And then the next would be yourticks.
A lot of guys out here likelike the English dogs and blue
(38:38):
ticks.
Um, I've only, I think I onlyknow two guys, it's red bones.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Oh, okay, yeah, and one guy only has one.
Is there much too for black andtan, because those seem to be
somewhat of a popular line dogin areas, I guess.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Yeah, I'd say they're probably more popular than red
bones.
I think they're real popular, Iguess really everywhere out
here.
But I guess it's probably justthe same scenario.
They're not as popular aseverything else.
My girlfriend's dad actuallyhas.
He used to have two reallyreally good black and tans from
(39:20):
the stories I hear and then heactually just picked up two
puppies.
He sold the two black and tansthat he had to guy over in
Montana and, uh, it had puppiesand he got two out of them.
So that was pretty interesting.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Yeah, yeah, Um, and then we we talked on the phone
before you're telling me howcool it was.
So I mean, the first time yougo to a tree and see a lion in
it, I mean, what's it likeseeing these huge cats for the
first time?
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Yeah, it was pretty interesting, it was very cool,
but it was just crazy, becausethey're real like.
They don't like to let nothingbehind them or beside them, they
like try to keep everything infront of them.
But they always got their eyeslocked on you.
So it's like I'm just thinking.
(40:16):
I'm like man, this thing couldjust jump out of here and kill
me if I wanted to yeah it'sreally cool will they?
Speaker 1 (40:25):
I mean, do they?
I've seen video stuff wherethey will jump out of the tree
like a bear will you know whenit's treed by hand stuff.
But will they ever heard ofthem coming at somebody or no,
they don't want to.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
I, I haven't, um, I've seen them.
Like I've seen videos of guys.
I've heard of guys gettingjumped on, but that's just the
line jumping out of the tree.
It wasn't like trying to hurtthem, okay, all right.
Um, yeah, they just are.
Usually the line will jump downlike downhill.
So, like that was something Ilearned pretty quick was with
(41:00):
clients and stuff.
I'm like you know, get above it, which that's really with
anything, even with wounded game.
You don't want to come below itbecause you don't want it to
run uphill.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Yeah, you would always want it to run down, yeah
yeah, so you were saying too,um, we were talking about like
bobcat or still, you find harderto hunt than um, than mountain
lion, because I've heard that,I've heard bobcats the hardest
thing to tree in north america.
But you'd think some peoplethink, well, why is that?
Wouldn't a mountain lion beharder?
Speaker 2 (41:31):
but yeah, so.
So yeah, lions really aren'tthat hard to catch.
If we're going to be honest, um, there's a huge difference
between a bobcat dog and a and alion dog, um, but yeah,
actually what it is is the thelions have.
Their lungs are, I think it'slike a little bit bigger than a
(41:55):
bobcat's lungs, but they haveall that muscle mass, so their
body can't produce enough oxygen, uh, to their muscles to keep
them going forever.
Usually, once the lion's jumped, it's not but 600 to 800 yards
in its tree usually.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Really, it's that quick.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Does it?
Speaker 1 (42:17):
vary.
Yeah, that's quick, even bear.
I've heard bear marathonrunners, but even tagging along
on bear hunts with hounds.
Oh yeah, the bears can be allday easy.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Yeah yeah, bears are, yeah, bears.
You don't never turn out on oneunless you plan on being there
all day.
Yeah, making some.
Yeah, sometimes they bears willtree in 600 yards, and
sometimes you're on a 10-hourrace for 20 miles.
Yeah, you never catch it.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
So the cats you said they almost are trained in your
area to tree a little quickerbecause they're used to wolves
coming at them.
And I didn't know.
But you were saying, like thewolves they'll hunt down and
kill lions.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Yeah, wow, hunt down and kill lions, yeah, so.
So that's kind of a a thingwe've talked about before too
was, uh, like the.
We wonder, you know, with wolfpressure, does that make lions
tree faster?
Um, cause, you know, if lionsgetting run by a wolf, it's just
used to popping up and then thewolf is like, okay, whatever,
(43:25):
it leaves him alone.
So we're like, you know, ifwe're in an area that that's
happening and you know we run alion with dogs, is that why it's
streaming faster too, or or youknow what's going on?
But yeah, I've, I actually wasout I think it was about a month
ago and I found a big tom trackand there was actually a wolf
(43:50):
following it which I walked thetrack out for probably a mile
and a half and the wolf neverleft it and I was like, okay,
I'm not turning out in this areaanyway.
So I was just hoping the wolfleft it and then I could follow
the track a few miles out orsomething where maybe the wolf
wouldn't get it, cause it was apretty, pretty fresh lion track.
(44:12):
I know some guys will turn outon my tracks in wolf areas If
it's like super, super hot,cause they know it'll tree like
right then and there, but Idon't know that makes me really
nervous.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Not worth the risk.
No, I mean one-on-one the wolf.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Take on a lion, a single wolf a single wolf, a big
tom would kill it all day long,yeah, but you know two wolves
or three wolves, that lion's introuble oh yeah, wow gee.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
So I mean the wolf, is it quite an issue where
you're at the wolves?
Speaker 2 (44:51):
so where I'm at right now it kind of depends where
you go, because if you go southof the reservoir it's not really
a big problem, but if you gonorth of the reservoir it's a
big deal.
And then I was hunting over inIdaho there with a buddy and it
(45:13):
was like everywhere we wentthere was wolf tracks.
Like every single drainagethere was wolf tracks.
It was like how is a guy evensupposed to hound hunt around
here Like man I know over inMissoula way it's been a problem
.
I got some buddies over therethat are constantly fighting
(45:35):
with the wolves.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
Yeah, I mean I hear luckily I don't have to deal
with it here running my houndsand stuff, but yeah I hear it is
quite an issue.
I mean the wolves willspecifically hunt down the
hounds that they hear.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
Yeah, yep, yep.
They hear a pack of hounds.
They'll come right in theirtree and kill the dogs.
And then you just lost yourlast five, ten years of work you
put into all these dogs,because you can't really get on
Amazon and order a four-year-old, finished dog.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
Yeah, no the wolves.
Hopefully politics and stuffcomes to the rescue a little bit
more and they can kind of get ahandle on that in a lot of
areas.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Yeah, yeah, I know Washington's really really bad
with the wolves.
Um, they really need to dosomething about that.
Really, the only thing youcould that's worth hunting in
washington is the fall bearseason, which nobody cares to do
.
That, yeah, and their turkeys,but it ain't gonna be much
longer and they probably won'thave turkeys either.
(46:44):
Because, like it is insane, I Iwent over there and hunted this
year.
We hunted three days, hikedabout 10 miles every single day,
and I don't even remember ifwe've seen a deer.
I don't think we've even seen adeer.
We actually cut a grizzly sow,grizzly with a cub.
(47:04):
That's the only tracks we cut,besides, I think, one set of
deer tracks.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
Yeah, yeah, the wolves are just killing machines
, so.
But they'll work an area andthen, you know, kill everything
there that they can.
They just keep moving on.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
Yeah, yeah, that's what they do.
There was the area that I guidein Montana.
They were telling me I think itwas four or five years ago.
There's this one spot that Iwas actually looking at.
I wanted to go check out and Iwas asking the other guides
(47:39):
about it.
They were like, yeah, that usedto be really good About five
years ago.
Ago.
We went through there and thewolves that had killed 13 elk
wow yeah like right on thisridge and just left them there
oh, they didn't even eat it,really yeah huh, so they'll,
they'll kill just just to kill.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
I've heard that.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
I heard they're just such a ferocious killing machine
that they just, they'll just doit just because they can yeah,
and I I feel really bad forcolorado right now, because
colorado actually has somereally really good hunting,
especially for mule deer, andthey just drop them five wolves
(48:21):
there and it ain't going to belong and they're going to be in
the same shape yeah, I, yeah,I'm a hundred percent against
wolves.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
Um, yeah, I don't, I don't know.
Us hunters can manage the, theecosystem, I think far superior
and putting money back into theeconomy and into conservation.
All that a lot better than apack of wolves.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
Yeah, 100%.
You know.
All it is is people are tryingto make laws and stuff like that
based off of feelings ratherthan facts is what it is.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Yeah, yeah, you know, you see those T-shirts and
everything you know people havewolves on them and this and that
they make them look like such agreat majestic animal.
And I mean they are in managed,you know areas and stuff, but I
mean I don't think peoplerealize how just vicious they
(49:17):
are.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Yeah, they can be.
Yeah, they're prettydevastating to the I.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Uh, I guess prey animals in every area yeah, you
know, and farmers and stuffincluded with you know, the cows
and sheep and all that, yeah,it's uh.
Yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, I'm not a fan, but, um, Iwant to talk to you.
It was neat so you had thatpicture up.
Uh, about the problem cougarhunt, you had a guy out on a
good successful hunt.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Yeah, that was actually the day we found that
lion track with a wolf followingit and we had left.
And then we actually found thisother track.
It was a female, female lion.
I don't like to kill femalesever.
(50:06):
Um, it's kind of a thing youknow a lot of people are like
it's a lion, kill it type ofdeal.
But once I got which that'skind of the mentality I had as
an elk hunter but once I hadhounds and you know, I kind of
got introduced to the houndworld.
That's like the golden rule youdo not kill females, female
(50:28):
lions, or you'll pretty much bebanned from the hound hunting
community, which I mean it'skind of a good thing.
Um, yeah yeah, because which inidaho?
They don't.
They don't have a quota ornothing.
Every single guy in idaho canhave two lion tags and you know,
somebody comes in with a packof dogs.
That's new.
They don't know nothing andthey're taking every single
(50:51):
buddy they know that has a liontag.
That's not real good no so alot of guys.
They just catch them and letthem go, which I really don't.
Have a desire to kill a lionfor the rest of my life, unless
it's a really big tom.
I'd like to shoot a real bigone with my bow.
Yeah, so this female lion.
(51:12):
It was actually killing an oldlady's chickens and goats and it
killed her daughter's dog,which her daughter's her
neighbor dog was her daughter'sneighbor and we uh turned out on
it and it run through theirproperty and then it got up on
(51:33):
some state and then it runthrough I don't even know how
many other people's properties,but every single person was just
like please kill this thing,like it's been harassing us,
it's been harassing everybody inthis little neighborhood.
It had to go and we're like,yeah, yeah, it was time for it
to go, because, I mean, they'relike pretty much the game
(51:54):
department won't do anything andif they do, they're just going
to kill it.
It's going to go away.
So I would rather you know theguy that killed it with me yeah
he's gonna going to make a rugout of it, he's going to eat it.
All that stuff it's not goingto go to waste.
But yeah, the first time ittreed was 30 yards behind
(52:14):
somebody's house.
So that was pretty interestingand I'm just thinking I'm like
man, please, please, don't letthis person be a jerk.
Yeah, let them be normal.
Yeah, exactly, don't let itperson be a jerk.
Yeah, let them be normal.
Yeah, exactly, don't let it bea cat lover.
We're in a pretty rural placeand everybody around here is
kind of pro-hound huntingbecause it's kind of like a
(52:39):
culture in this area.
Everybody knows what a houndbox is and all that stuff, so
they think it's pretty cool, soit's pretty nice.
Um, but yeah, then it bailedout of that tree as soon as I
come through the brush, which Iwas trying to be quiet, because
sometimes them cats will jumpout.
(52:59):
As soon as you uh start gettingclose, they hear some brush
breaking or something and theyjump out.
I was like, all right, I've gotto be quiet.
I went about 10 more yards andI actually tripped on a little
limb and it broke and then itjumped out and ran away.
But yeah, they got it caughtand then uh got rid of it yes,
(53:27):
sir.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
So everyone was uh, and the area was pretty happy.
All the locals were like youknow, good job that was.
I mean you said you're youdon't normally shoot females,
but I mean obviously that one.
You know that was an issue, andif it's brave enough to be
taking people's livestock andeven pets right in their yard,
then I mean what's to say yeah,or attack a human?
Speaker 2 (53:45):
right, exactly, and that was the thing was.
So it was like a, a fingerridge and there's houses all
over it and then it goes down tolike the road uh, like the
public road and there's housesall around down there and it was
cleaned down behind people'shouses along that county road
and then it come up onto thatridge and for some reason every
(54:09):
time the cat jumped three timesfor treat it and then it would
jump and then treat it again.
It jumped and treed jumped andthen treat, and every single
time it would jump, it wouldmake a and for some reason it
didn't want to leave that ridge.
I think it had a kill orsomething up there.
So that was like it's.
(54:30):
The females don't have a hugehome territory Like Tom's.
They'll go 10 miles justhunting, but females kind of
stay in the same little area.
So that thing was kind of justprobably hanging out up there on
that ridge and then, as soon asit ran out of food, go down and
collect somebody's dog orchicken, right, yeah, and head
(54:51):
back up there.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
So it didn't seem to have a real I mean, besides you
guys coming into the tree and itjumping, but I mean if it's
that close to people's housesand all that, it really wasn't
too scared.
Speaker 2 (55:03):
No, no, not at all.
Uh, the one guy he said he hadtrail cam pictures of a couple
different lions, um, but justwithin the last month, so that
probably isn't even the only one.
I think that was probably thatone's home range, and then, you
know, maybe one or two otherones might have been coming
through here and there, but theysaid they had problems with
(55:26):
bears too.
Um, yeah, pretty much that linewas coming becoming a real big
problem for him, um, and the guyhe actually, so it was like a
it's a private drive road thatgoes up this mountain, I guess.
And and the guy actually pickedus up.
I was walking down the road, uh,with one of my puppies and the
(55:51):
dogs had just crossed and he waslike, what are you doing?
Blah, blah.
And I was like we got a lionrace up here, uh, and he was
like, all right, I'll run you upthere real quick.
And he me and my puppy just gotin his truck and he, he hunted
with us the rest of the day.
He was, he wanted to make surethis thing died.
That's pretty cool.
(56:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Everybody caught word up thereof that little community.
They're like awesome, they'reall rooting for you, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (56:21):
Yeah, that's great.
Uh, you know, walker, I can'tthank you enough for for coming
on the podcast.
You're you're an interestingguy.
Um, definitely hope to have youon again, but who is, uh, if
someone wants to check you outand all that who's the outfitter
that you work for?
Speaker 2 (56:35):
so I actually work for a couple different
outfitters, um, so I worked forwayne hill outfitting.
Wayne hill outfitting in Knoxand Montana that's where I do
all my elk hunting and fallhunts.
And then I work for Clark ForkOutfitters in Idaho.
(56:57):
I do some bear hunts with themevery year and I think I have
one rifle elk hunt with themthis year because the way the
seasons lay out there's like atwo-week break and I'll go over
and guide over there and then Ido a little bit.
I do the lion hunts with lion'shead outfitters up in Bonners
(57:18):
Ferry, idaho, and then me myself.
I do I am actually able to.
I have my own outfitter, uh,it's called Blackwoods
Outfitters.
Um, it's just, uh, we just doturkey hunts cause I don't have
any of the forest servicepermits or nothing.
So but I'm able to guide inWashington and, uh, on private
land in Idaho.
(57:39):
So okay, yeah, that's awesomeand uh, it's, it's neat to see
all that and you know on yourInstagram and everything.
Speaker 1 (57:52):
Um, yeah, I see that you're yeah, you're a big turkey
hunter and I want to talk toyou about that another time too.
Yeah, yeah, for sure, That'd beawesome.
Speaker 2 (57:55):
Yeah, all right, Well thanks, and uh, you know, happy
hunting.
Yeah Thanks, have a good oneyou too.
this is hunts on outfitting podcast.
I'm your host and rookie guide,ken marr.
I love everything hunting theoutdoors and all things
associated with it, from storiesto how-tos.
You'll find it here.
Welcome to the podcast.
All right, thanks for joiningus on this week's podcast.
We're happy to have youlistening, as always, and we
(00:34):
hope that you share us out withyour friends and family.
All right, so this week on thepodcast we get to meet Walker
Witt.
Who is he?
He's a bull riding elk callinglion chasing guide.
That we get to hear all aboutin this week's podcast.
We hope you enjoy, All right.
Yeah, Walker, I mean thanks fortaking my call, and it was
interesting last week talking toyou and finding a bit about who
(00:58):
you are, and then we weresupposed to do a podcast
yesterday but you got stuck.
You were getting trail camerasat the mountain, were you?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, yeah, I was.
Seems like I'm stuck in thesnow more than I'm getting to do
anything up there.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
So, walker, you're living right now was it right by
Idaho?
But you're in Montana, yep, yep, but that's not where you're
originally from.
You're originally fromPennsylvania, and then, if you
want to take it from there, Imean it kind of sounds like
you're living the American dream.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, I guess.
So yeah, I grew up in southwestPennsylvania hunting and
fishing and all that stuff andthen the summer after high
school I just packed my bags andheaded out to Montana to guide
elk hunts.
And yeah, it's pretty muchhistory from there.
(01:59):
I went back my first winter, Iwent back home, and then I come
back out that spring and thennever went back.
My first winter I went backhome and then I come back out
that spring and then never wentback.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
So the rest is history, yeah, I mean.
So what did you grow up hunting, mainly in Pennsylvania, like
what got you into wanting topursue elk and guide for them?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
You know, I was thinking about that there the
other day, um, and I, I don'tknow, I kind of just always had
like a some sort of drive forwestern hunting.
Um, because really in the eastall we got, you know, white tail
and turkeys and, uh, some bears, um small game, but, um, my, my
(02:43):
dad went on an elk hunt incolorado when I was like nine or
ten and he, whenever he gotback, he was telling all the
stories you know, he was likethey slept in hammocks or
whatever.
They hiked up in the mountains,slept in hammocks and hunted,
um, and just seeing the picturesthat he took, like I don't know
, I could not wait to do it oneof these days.
(03:05):
And, uh, I don't know, I wantedto make money hunting.
Um, you know, I I started ayoutube channel, I did some
stuff with the pursuit channelin high school, um, and then I
kind of just figured, you know,the tv hunting industry is is
really fake, what I found out.
So, yeah, I was like you know,I want TV hunting industry is
really fake, that's what I foundout.
So I was like, you know, I wantto do the real deal.
(03:27):
So guiding was pretty much myoption to make money hunting.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Yeah, and then too I mean yeah,so that's what got the?
You know the bug in you for elk.
It was just having your dad goout and then seeing that.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
And that's you know.
You're like, well, there'snothing in Pennsylvania like
that and I'd sure like to get onone.
Yeah, yeah, he like he hadpictures of these birds they
were feeding, like the birdswould sit in their hands, and
just the pictures of themountains.
And and he like he was shotgrouse for his dinner the one
night with his bow.
I thought that was awesome,because the grouse population in
pennsylvania is like almostcompletely gone because of
predators.
Um, and then same thing, likehe was catching trout out of the
(04:14):
streams and eating it andpennsylvania only has stock of
trout.
So it's like, oh, I don't know,I thought it was awesome, just
how wild.
It was awesome, just how wildit was, I think.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Um, yeah, yeah, the West, I mean it obviously
compared, pennsylvania isbeautiful, but I mean the West
is just, I guess you could say,breathtaking, you know just the
big skies and all that.
And then, um, but you too,another interesting thing about
you so you were a bull rider, uh, through high school and
everything in Pennsylvania,cause I thought maybe it took
that up at West, cause it's, youknow, it's a Western thing.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
But that's not where it started.
Yeah, I uh, I actually startedwhen I was 17.
Um, and I was, so my mom, Iwanted to do it like my whole
life.
My mom wouldn't let me do it,wouldn't let me do it.
She was like you're not, youknow, she didn't want me to get
(05:09):
hurt or whatever.
So I had a buddy, that kind ofrode bulls, and I talked to him
or whatever, and we, we, I justpretty much signed up because
you're supposed to be 18, butthere's so many rodeos back
there that they don't ever get aparent's signature, like you
just sign it and say you're 18.
They don't check for anyidentification or nothing.
So I actually just yeah, and andI rode bulls like every single
(05:31):
weekend for two, three monthswithout my mom knowing.
It was kind of funny becausebull riding you, you got like
your rigging bag or whatever.
So I just had like this duffelbag of stuff that was slowly
growing like of all my ridinggear and I'd be like like I
don't know what I was eventelling her.
I remember one time I told herwe were going to a concert and
(05:52):
I'm like walking out the doorwith a cowboy hat and a duffel
bag and it's like okay, but butthen she found out so she wasn't
very happy but she got over it.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah well, did you have any like major injuries or
anything that you had to try tolike hide from her, or you got
lucky?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
So I have been pretty fortunate with the riding.
Really, I just got in with likethe right type of dude Cause if
you get in with the wrong guys,they they just want to throw
you on stuff that kills you.
And the guys I got in with youknow they, they taught us.
You know, yeah, you want to begritty and if you can grit out a
(06:34):
bull and get your ride and doit, but you also don't want to
stay an extra jump for two andthen it sucks you underneath of
it and you're getting brokenlegs and arms and lacerated
livers and all that.
So I'd been pretty fortunateenough to where I, as soon as I
would get my hips rocked out, Iwould just jump off and, uh, get
(06:55):
out of there.
But most of the time if I gothurt it was a knockout or a
concussion type of deal.
Um, I haven't been stepped on aton, you know.
Usually you know I'll get a legor something stepped on.
But usually when I would gethurt it was because I would go
over the front and the bullwould.
(07:16):
I would hit my face off of itshorns.
Um, but the worst one I everhad I think it was two years ago
and I actually flew back topennsylvania for a week to ride
with my brother and all mybuddies, I guess for old time's
sake.
And yeah, I, I, uh, I actuallydrew a bull that I have been on
(07:43):
one time before and I knew Icould ride them and I took them
to like seven seconds and I wentover the front and all I wear
is like a $80 hockey helmet.
It really doesn't do anythingbut protect your face from
getting scratches.
I guess it really doesn't keepyou from getting knocked out,
(08:03):
but uh, yeah, I like it hit me,keep you from getting knocked
out.
But uh, yeah, I like it hit me,his horn, hit me right on the
temple, and then I just likefell off the side and I don't
remember anything except for thebullfighter coming up to me and
being like just stay rightthere.
And you know, usually when youhit the dirt you're like trying
to get out of there.
But I was really conscious, Idon't know I all I remember
(08:26):
being on the ground on a balland the bullfighter being like
just stay there.
And then I don't rememberanything else for about an hour
and I remember we picked up mybuddy from his college.
I didn't even know he was there.
He come up behind me and I waslike what are you doing here,
jesse?
He was like bro I rode herewith and they were asking me
(08:46):
questions.
I didn't remember anything,didn't know where the car was,
didn't know the day of the week,and I've been knocked out
probably like 25 times, 30 times, and I've never had it that bad
.
And that one was like man, Imight be in some trouble here,
but yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
So I mean in some trouble here.
Yeah, so I mean, are you stilldoing it some?
You said it's not where you'reat in Montana, surprisingly.
I mean I think that is the Westbull riding, but you said
there's not as much in your areaas there is in Pennsylvania
where you grew up.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, so where I grew up in Pennsylvania, I could go
two hours any direction and Icould ride four or five days a
week.
But out here, I think, justbecause it's so remote, like
there's one over in Kalispellwhich is like two and a half
hours away, and that's really itin the wintertime, but in the
(09:43):
summertime there's a bunch offair rodeos but they made them
all prca which you got to go geta card and all that stuff which
I did just finally get my prcacard notarized and all that, so
I could go do that this summer.
But, um, it was kind of hardfor me, just because I don't
like it's tough with guidingbecause I try not to get hurt
(10:06):
right before hunting season.
Yeah, I was gonna ask, yeah,yeah, so like I would start
getting really, really good andbeing able to ride stuff
consistently and then guideseason would come up and I would
quit riding for three, fourmonths and then go get back on
and I would have to pretty muchrestart again.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
But uh yeah, yeah, I mean it's quite a bit.
Uh yeah, it's a lot to it.
It's funny too, you see, atsome bull riding events and all
that and I've been fortunateenough to be able to go to, uh,
the pbrs come out my way beforeand you've got sometimes you've
got the animal rights activistsprotesting saying it's cruel to
the bulls, and I'll tell, tellyou, those bulls, they are well
(10:46):
looked after, as I'm sure youknow, and they are fine.
It's the cowboys that take thebeating.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
And a lot of people just don'tget it Like they try to say that
they tie the flank strap aroundtheir balls.
Yeah, it's a common myth.
Yeah, it's called a flank straparound their balls.
Yeah, it's a common myth.
Yeah, it's called a flank strap.
All it is is, you know, it justgives the bull something to
kick at.
It's like a soft cotton ropeand it's just right against
(11:17):
their flank so they can kick atit.
And if you watch any bull, assoon as that flank strap comes
off they quit kicking.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Yeah, and I think a lot of people don't realize
either that these aren't justrandom barnyard bulls.
These are, like you know, bredfor generations specifically for
bucking.
These aren't the ones thatyou're going to see necessarily
out, you know, breedingsomeone's angus cattle or
something like that right, right, yeah, these things are
athletes yeah, yeah, no.
That, yeah, no.
That's really cool.
(11:45):
So you leave Pennsylvania andyou head out west because you
want to guide elk there.
I mean, how did you find theoutfitter to work with, and what
was your first season like?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
So I found the outfitter I work with.
I kind of knew of them throughmy dad, but I also I went to the
outdoor, outdoor show, talkedto some outfitters or whatever,
and they they pretty much, uh,were like, yeah, whatever, we'll
take you on as an apprentice,um, apprentice packers, what
(12:18):
they call.
I I just pretty much left.
I I was so dumb because I leftat like six or seven at night,
well, I mean whatever.
But yeah, once I, once I gotout here, uh, they pretty much
(12:40):
were like, yeah, you got tolearn the area, whatever.
So I just hiked every singleday.
I probably put 50, 60 miles onin a week just trying to learn
country and everything.
And then my first two weeks Ishadowed a guide and then the
people I worked for, the wife,got in a fight with one of the
(13:03):
guides.
It was a huge ordeal which thisguide he kind of had been a
pain in the butt, um, and heactually left us on the mountain
, which that's like number onerule you don't leave, you don't
leave nobody on the mountain.
Yeah, we're.
I think it was like my third orfourth day there we were.
(13:23):
The outfitter owner was like,why don't you guys go hike this
area because he was kind of newI think he was his second year
but he come around like we.
It was like a giant bowl.
We walked around and then wewere dropping back down to the
truck and like the kid just leftus which I think the kid he
(13:45):
actually got fired at anotheroutfitter before for his
attitude and all this stuff andhe was lazy yeah, he was very
lazy, but yeah, yeah.
So what happened was he got madbecause we were hiking ahead of
him.
He couldn't like keep up withus and we were just kind of
trying to blaze this, which hewasn't that far behind us he's
probably 10 yards behind us, buthe didn't like that and then he
(14:09):
just like got mad and left,just completely dove off the
side of the mountain and we werelike where the heck is he at?
And so we waited for him forlike an hour, cause we had
planned on meeting at this onespot and then dropping straight
down through these cliffs to thetruck, and he just show up.
(14:29):
So we were like, okay, well,let's just go to the truck,
maybe he's there.
And we got to the truck and hewasn't there and then, like 20
minutes later, he just pops outof the bushes and he's like I've
been watching you guys andwe're like what.
I've been watching you guys andwe're like what.
But yeah, then I think it waslike two days after that he got
(14:53):
in a fight with the owner's wife.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
He was gone.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
I don't know, yeah, they were like hey, pretty much
we need you.
So and I it's kind of funnyCause like hey, pretty much we
need you.
It's kind of funny because Igrew up hunting, I know how to
hunt, but I'm hunting elk in acompletely different country,
but I knew enough and theypretty much just threw me to the
(15:18):
wolves.
I think we seen a spike bullwhich can't shoot spikes in that
unit.
Um, on the second day of thehunt and the client I had, he
was a like a commercial hiker, Iguess you could call it, I
don't know he that was like hishobby was hiking, like he went
(15:39):
all around the country and worldto national parks to hike and
he was actually trying to go toevery single national park in
the world or country or whateverand and hike there.
And he has like stickers onwhatever his water bottle, on
his truck and all that.
Oh yeah, but he wasn't, he wasactually from Pennsylvania too
(16:00):
and, uh, I actually found it waskind of interesting because my
first day ever guiding a client,I found two elk sheds and I
think it was three white tailsheds, which is insane.
Yeah, that's really cool.
But um, yeah, pretty much weseen a spike on the second day
and then we seen nothing untilthe very last day.
(16:21):
And you know that was one ofthe hardest things I learned.
Being a guide is like keepingyour clients morale up.
It goes so such a far way,especially in this country.
It's so steep and thick, guyscan't really hack it very often.
Um, and this guy, he was a youknow hiker and his boots were
(16:42):
chewing him up, giving himblisters, because you know we're
sidehailing, we're not on atrail like he's used to, I guess
.
Um, and I actually called in asix by seven to him.
Um, we hiked probably like twomiles just down this trail.
I wanted to check out this bowlbecause I knew there had been
(17:03):
elk in and there were somewallows in the bottom.
And I just hit a cow call andthis bull just erupted with like
a growl, and so I don't know, Ididn't know a ton, so I just
bugled, I challenged, bugled thebull as like a little yeah, as
(17:23):
like a little as yeah, as like alittle raghorn, tried to make
it sound really.
And then he, but he did notlike that, he, uh, he actually
lip balled at me, and so whenthey lip ball, that's them
rounding up their cows.
That means they're either goingto push their cows and run away
from you, or they're going topush their cows away and come
(17:45):
down and fight you.
That way you can't get inbetween him and his cows.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Because if you ever get in between a bull and his
cows it's dead.
Like you can kill it 1,000%.
But he pushed his cows up theridge about 400 yards, bugled
where he last.
His last bugle was where Iguess he left them and I was
like, looking at my client, Iwas like either we're gonna have
(18:12):
to take off after him or he'sgonna come back.
And then, sure enough, about 30seconds later he bugles me
about 200 yards closer and thenhe just went silent.
But like at at this point, um,I could see trees that he rubbed
and I had a raking horn.
I was raking all the trees.
I was like, yeah, like tryingto make them know this is, this
(18:32):
is my territory now.
And, um, he was double bugling,he was not happy, growling, he
come down and he was about 80yards away when he last bugled.
And then he come right into thehiking trail and he was 34 yards
(18:52):
broadside my client's full dropand then he stood there and was
looking around for probablyfive, ten seconds and he turned
and walked straight up the trailat my client, where he was my
client's full draw, in themiddle of the trail, and he's
walking straight at him and hestops at.
I think it was like 14 yards,and then it turned broadside
(19:14):
again and then he was going togo check our wind, which was to
the left.
The bull had been coming fromthe right and our thermals were
sucking out.
There was a creek behind us soit was sucking out that creek
bottom.
And you know, the bull, I don'tknow he was broadside there for
about five seconds maybe andthen he went into the brush and
(19:36):
there was no shot and then hewent right into our scent cone
and boom gone.
And the whole time I'm like, ohmy gosh, I'm gonna be the first
kill of the year, like and thisis a massive bull, I'm like I'm
just waiting for the, for thebow to go off and hear the flack
, but guy never shot, I don'tknow which.
(19:57):
You see that a lot with guys isthey freeze up.
And my philosophy I guess youcould call it on it is we always
said there's killers andthere's hunters, and the killers
kill and the hunters hunt.
And I think that was thesituation Because you know, like
(20:17):
we would have Am clients, uh,that would come out and hunt and
they nothing gets past them,they don't freeze up, they, they
kill stuff and that you canusually tell you know with guys,
as soon as you get them, you'llbe like, okay, this guy's gonna
kill something and this guy'sgonna, really it's gonna.
It's gonna be tough if this guygets a shot, you know, because,
(20:39):
yeah, I don't know what it is Idon't know, guides, intuition,
but that's neat.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
I've heard that before about the almish.
Actually I've heard they'relike when they go to hunt
they're, they're gettingsomething yeah, they don't care.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah, they do not care so I mean, that's wild.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
So your first ever guided hunt for elk you had, you
didn't just have any old client, you had a guy that was hunting
bow too.
Yeah, yeah, that's, yeah, evenmore difficult yeah, yeah, yeah,
I've actually become a.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
That's actually my bread and butter, usually
archery elk hunting.
Okay, I'm not big on.
I'm not big on the riflehunting, I think, because I grew
up turkey hunting.
That's what they all say.
All the outfitters here in thewest say they would rather train
a guy from the east that was aturkey hunter on elk and train a
guy that grew up there on elkand because he tries to follow
(21:34):
what his grandpa said and heknows better type of deal.
But if you're from the east andthe outfitter takes you from
there, you got all theexperience from calling setups
on turkeys and then they canimplement it and turn it into
elk hunting and usually that'sthe best elk hunters in the
country is your eastern turkeyhunters that they can morph into
(21:57):
an elk hunter really huh,that's interesting now so I know
I'm going on some turkey huntsthis spring and I'm quite
excited, first time I know.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
One big thing I've been told is that turkeys have
incredible eyesight.
Does that like?
Speaker 2 (22:10):
do elk rely on their eyes quite a lot too, or more
their nose so you can fool elk'seyes and his ears, but he won't
never fool his nose, right they.
If you don't got the wind right, it's not happening.
And yeah, that was a big thing.
Uh, to learn too, I mean.
(22:32):
Obviously I knew I needed toplay the wind, but it seemed
like all the times I would callan elk especially the older they
they would always wind checkyou first.
They always run downwind.
So I kind of started makingdifferent setups.
You know, because you can hearthe elk coming, they're not
quiet walking through the woods,they don't.
(22:54):
Sometimes they'll sneak in.
It's crazy how quiet they canbe if they want to be.
But usually they come throughand you can hear twigs snapping
and they're just like blowingthrough the brush.
And you can come hear themcoming from like 150 yards away,
okay, and then I can be likeyou know, hey, get over here,
over here.
Or you know, if the bull'sbugling, you know two, three
(23:17):
hundred yards away, I'm like,hey, if he's going to come in,
this is where you need to be,because I can maneuver myself on
the other side of the client toput the client in between me
and the bull and then alsofactor in the wind.
So say if the wind was blowingdown, uh, that bull's going to
try to come below my my calls totry to win.
(23:41):
Check to see if I'm a bull or ahunter.
Okay, so I can put my client inthe right place to shoot it
whenever it comes by to get thewin.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Here's a question for you then,walker Do you believe in all
the scent eliminator stuff,clothings, all that?
Speaker 2 (24:01):
so.
So this is interesting.
I grew up you know I would, Iwould spray down whatever, yeah,
but out here you're hiking somuch it doesn't matter what you
smell like, because you're goingto smell like sweat in about 30
minutes anyways.
(24:21):
Um, all you can do is play thewind because you even if if you
could have the best scenteliminator is you're a living
human being, so you're gonnaconstantly be producing scent
and they're gonna smell youeither way.
But, um, I actually, uh, therewas a I think it was a podcast a
(24:42):
guy did and he he brought uplike hounds, you know, hunting
hounds, dogs, um, and then deerand elk and bear, and he
compared there's something inthe nose that you can compare
how good it can smell.
I don't remember exactly butscent receptacles, I think,
(25:04):
something like yeah, it was likea hundred times what a hound
dog can smell is, yeah, what adeer elk can smell and I'm like,
yeah, there's no way you'regonna beat its nose, like I
don't care what you put onyourself I agree completely.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I just wanted to see.
I have this argument withfriends and stuff from time to
time.
I think it's just a gimmick,like you said.
I forget how many more timespowerful a deer's nose is
compared to a bloodhound, likeyou're not fooling it.
I just wanted to see what youthought, though.
Hunting them.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Right, I've seen bears have winded me 400 yards
away.
Yeah, so it's like you know.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yeah, yeah, no, exactly.
Um, it's interesting.
So, like Morel, like you'resaying, yeah, just trying to
keep a high, like all you know,just one more ridge to go, like
we're almost there.
Are you kind of doing that thewhole time with some people?
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Yeah, some guys, they just a a lot of guys.
It seems like to me they havethe physicality, like they have
the physical ability to do it,but they do not.
They can't keep the mentalthere.
So if you can get guys that youcan get to overcome you know,
because obviously usually whatit is.
It's so weird because yourfirst mile you are hurting, I
(26:17):
don't know what it is.
It's so weird because yourfirst mile you are hurting, I
don't know what it is.
Your body is like trying toacclimate is what I call it.
But after the first mile ofhiking it seems like which I've
talked to guys about this, likeother guides, we talk about it
all the time After the firstmile it's like your body gets
acclimated, which everybody justcalls it a second wind mile.
(26:40):
It's like your body getsacclimated, which everybody just
calls it a second wind.
But I think your body just getsacclimated to what it's working
, what you should be doing,because you know, even like
working out or whatever it seemslike after.
I guess it could just be calleda warm-up.
Once your body's warmed up,then yeah, you kind of just go.
It's not that big of a dealbecause usually the first mile
is miserable.
Your body's hurting, your legsare burning, you're sweating,
(27:02):
you're out of breath, and thenit's like, all of a sudden, that
switch flips and you're good togo yeah, no, that that makes
sense.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Uh, good question too about uh, because I might be
going on a hunt this fall withuh in the mountains.
Um, what?
What kind of boots are you ifsomebody, if a client, calls you
before they come out andthey're like I don't have a pair
of boots yet, obviously wearthem quite a bit before they
come on the hunt with you, butwhat kind of boots are you
recommending, like somethingwaterproof, hikers, that
combination but what?
(27:32):
Brand.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Personally so.
Schnee boots I think they'reout of Bozeman, montana.
They give guides 50 off.
So I I my first year coming out.
I actually had christy bootsand then I switched to shnaes
because christy only gives 25off and we try to support the
companies that support us typeof deal.
(27:56):
But this I loved.
I had their, their granite, andthen I had their better two.
They were great boots, um, butthis year, well, yeah, this year
actually got their mission bootand I hated them.
I've loved every boot I've hadfrom them, but this year that
(28:18):
boot it it uh, the first week Iwore it in archery season
because, like, I'll wear it likerunning dogs and bear season
kind of like just getting myboots kind of broken all summer
for elk reason yeah and thefirst week of elk season the
thread on the back completelycome apart and I had blisters.
(28:41):
So bad because that hole was itmade, the, that fabric, leather,
go inwards yeah and it rubbedthe back of my my feet so bad
and I had blisters on the backof my feet and made me miserable
.
And then they wouldn't theyactually didn't replace them, uh
, for some reason, I don't knowwhy.
(29:02):
Um, yeah, that kind of made memad, which I hate to talk bad on
them because they've made mephenomenal boots, you know, but
that I don't know what it waswith that pair of boots, the
thread just like come undone,and I mean the hole was probably
, I don't know, inch and a halfby inch and a half big.
(29:23):
Oh, big enough, yeah, yeah, solike you know they're 500 booth.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
They should stand behind their product.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Yeah, absolutely yeah , but this year I think I'm
going to go back to crispies.
Um, personally, I thinkcrispies are the most
comfortable boot there is.
Um, but the schnee's seem to bea little bit more waterproof,
just because the schnee's arekind of more one piece of
leather rather than the crispiesare a couple pieces of leather.
(29:52):
Okay, yeah, um, but kenna trexI've heard a lot of good things
about kenna trex.
Kind of well, some people don'tlike them, some people like
them.
I think it's kind of just aChevy Ford type of deal.
Oh yeah, yeah, any of thosethree brands, you'll be just
fine.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Okay, no, I was curious, especially somebody
that spends as much time in themas you do.
You would definitely be what Iconsider an expert to know.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
You know what pair of boots, yeah what I consider an
expert to know you know whatpair of boots.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
So another thing with your bull, the elk, hunting.
So is it normal, like so onebull will have a whole group of
cows just to himself and he'llkeep the other bulls away, and
like how many would be in thatgroup?
Roughly, or it depends on thearea.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
So yeah, it kind of actually depends on the area.
So where we're at in thenorthwest it's so thick that
we've talked about this before.
So if you go over to likebozeman or somewhere where it's
real open, you'll see a bull sothat's called a herd bull.
That's usually the biggest,that's the dominant bull.
He'll have several cows withthem and then you'll have
(30:58):
satellite bulls and then, likeyour little raghorn bulls that
come in they'll try to steal acow away or breed one or
whatever.
Um, but over there you'll seeherd bulls with 60 cows, 30 cows
, 40 cows, but over here I thinkthe most we've ever seen in the
woods is like 12 cows with thebull, because I we think they
(31:23):
just can't keep track of thembecause you can only see 30
yards and yeah, so it's kind ofhard for him to keep track of
them.
If he did have that many another, you know, a satellite bull is
going to come right throughthere and steal half of them
real quick yeah, no, that makessense.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
So yeah, kind of curious about that.
The thicker it is, the lesscows the bull would be in charge
of.
Yeah yeah, yeah, that'sinteresting.
Yeah, I can't believe you'refirst guided elk hunt and you're
new to it and you've got a guyshooting a bow.
I mean it just makes it thatmuch harder.
You can tell you're a bullrider, I guess, because just
gritty and tough, because werethe outfitters that you were
(32:00):
working for were they kind ofimpressed?
You know, you've got this kidfrom Pennsylvania, just doesn't
know.
Anybody comes out here and saysyou know, I want to hunt, I
want to guide for elk, andyou're just running up and down
the mountains, just learning theterrain and all that.
I mean it shows a lot ofinitiative really.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah, yeah for sure.
So really yeah, yeah for sure.
I uh.
So this is kind of funny.
The outfitter that I had workedfor they were actually the guy
was from pennsylvania too, andhe grew up like really really
around the area I grew up in.
So it's kind of interesting.
Yeah, but he's been doing itfor 20 years and he actually
(32:37):
left the summer after highschool as well, when he was 18.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Oh, that's.
Neat, Small world, really small.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Yeah, and he actually rode bulls as well and he
actually owned bucking bulls fora while.
Oh, that's kind of interesting.
But yeah, my first year guidingwas his first year owning an
outfit.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Okay, so yeah, that's neat.
Are you know both coming uptogether in that sense with you
know different areas of thebusiness?
Yeah, yeah um, yeah, that'sreally cool.
So, uh, now you know I want toget into.
Um, you know what you and Iboth love the most the, uh, the
hound hunting.
So, uh, you run, you're onmountain lion and you Bears, but
(33:19):
your start was you started withBeagles in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Yep, yep, yeah, I actually.
I always wanted a coon dog orwhatever, which I don't know if
that started with, you know,watching that show, the Mountain
Men or whatever, that rich guyon there he would run mountain
vines, um, on that show.
(33:45):
I thought that was awesome, um,and I never was allowed to have
a coon dog.
So, but my dad's brother and mymom's brother, dad's brother
and my mom's brother, they bothhad two or not coon dogs, they
had rabbit dogs, beagles, andyou know I don't know.
I just thought that was cooltoo, but something about coon
(34:07):
hunting, I don't know whatever.
But yeah, rabbits, I.
I ended up my one uncle got outof rabbit dogs and he had one, a
one-year-old or a two-year-oldbeagle, and he called, or no,
his wife called my mom and waslike, hey, does Walker want a
beagle or whatever.
You know she started on rabbitsthis and that I was just like
(34:32):
please, please, please.
They were pretty much like,yeah, I mean you promised to
take care of it.
Then whatever, just went fromthere.
I hunted all the time.
I can just remember every day Iwould get off school pretty
much in the wintertime.
I would have the dogs and go,because where I lived at the
(34:57):
time, I could walk right acrossthe road and then about 200
yards down, there's a patch oftimber that's loaded with
rabbits, and every day, as soonas I got off the school bus, I
didn't care if I had homework ornot.
I wouldn't do it.
I would just go up and get thedog and the 20-gauge and run
across the road until darkpretty much.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, it's a pilot fun.
I love running mines.
Do you guys have?
Uh, is it cottontail orsnowshoe hair out there?
Do you guys have?
I know some areas have bothyeah, so some areas have both.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Where I was at, I don't think I ever seen snowshoe
.
There have been rumors, likeyou know, that there were some,
but I never seen one.
It was all cottontail.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Okay, yeah, they're.
Uh, they're smaller.
Like we have snowshoe hare andwe run them, They'll run really
big but they won't burrow.
I guess sometimes with thecottontail they'll.
They'll run so long and thenthey'll just burrow.
Yeah, Yep, Try to get thembefore that.
Uh, so then, yes, you startedwith the beagles, never had the
coonhound, and then so was it.
You got into the big houndsonce you moved and were working
(36:02):
for that outfitter.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yeah, so my first year, it was my first or second
year, or no, it was my secondyear because so they in the area
I was at they wouldn't let youhunt mountain lions with dogs
unless you drew the tag.
And we got a new biologist andhe opened it up.
(36:26):
He was like we got way too manyof these things.
He opened it up.
So then the outfitter was ableto just do lion hunts over the
counter on a quota tag and thefirst year I think they allowed
14 or 15 lions to get killed.
But yeah, I went and Iabsolutely loved it.
I was like this is awesome,like I'm definitely getting the
(36:48):
dog for sure.
And yeah, pretty much that wasthat I I helped to guide those
lion hunts, um all that December.
And then I actually right atthe towards the end of those
lion hunts, um all that december, and then I actually right at
the towards the end of thoselion hunts, I met my girlfriend
and she had grew up houndhunting and her dad had hounds
(37:09):
and everything else and yeah,then I was pretty much just like
, yeah, I'm getting a, getting ahound as soon as I'm able to.
And then it was was about sixor seven months and I went and
picked up two hound dog puppiesand I guess it's history from
there.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
What breed did you go with?
Speaker 2 (37:31):
So I actually got a red bone from down Nez Perce,
idaho way, okay.
And then I got a plot walkacross and that seems to be a
lot of guys around here.
That's their breed, becausethey're like, you know, he's got
(37:51):
the grittiness of the plot, buthe's as smart as a walker.
You know, guys out here seem tobe real about the, what color
it is and what breed does thisor whatever, which it holds some
fruit.
But I mean there's good, badand all of it.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
So yeah, uh, you don't see a lot of red bones I
don't anyways, in the pictureson um, on lions, like are they a
common breed out there or no?
Speaker 2 (38:18):
they uh they actually are pretty.
They're probably the leastpopular breed, I would say,
cause usually guys have walkersor plots and that's your two,
you know most popular.
And then the next would be yourticks.
A lot of guys out here likelike the English dogs and blue
(38:38):
ticks.
Um, I've only, I think I onlyknow two guys, it's red bones.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Oh, okay, yeah, and one guy only has one.
Is there much too for black andtan, because those seem to be
somewhat of a popular line dogin areas, I guess.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Yeah, I'd say they're probably more popular than red
bones.
I think they're real popular, Iguess really everywhere out
here.
But I guess it's probably justthe same scenario.
They're not as popular aseverything else.
My girlfriend's dad actuallyhas.
He used to have two reallyreally good black and tans from
(39:20):
the stories I hear and then heactually just picked up two
puppies.
He sold the two black and tansthat he had to guy over in
Montana and, uh, it had puppiesand he got two out of them.
So that was pretty interesting.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Yeah, yeah, Um, and then we we talked on the phone
before you're telling me howcool it was.
So I mean, the first time yougo to a tree and see a lion in
it, I mean, what's it likeseeing these huge cats for the
first time?
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Yeah, it was pretty interesting, it was very cool,
but it was just crazy, becausethey're real like.
They don't like to let nothingbehind them or beside them, they
like try to keep everything infront of them.
But they always got their eyeslocked on you.
So it's like I'm just thinking.
(40:16):
I'm like man, this thing couldjust jump out of here and kill
me if I wanted to yeah it'sreally cool will they?
Speaker 1 (40:25):
I mean, do they?
I've seen video stuff wherethey will jump out of the tree
like a bear will you know whenit's treed by hand stuff.
But will they ever heard ofthem coming at somebody or no,
they don't want to.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
I, I haven't, um, I've seen them.
Like I've seen videos of guys.
I've heard of guys gettingjumped on, but that's just the
line jumping out of the tree.
It wasn't like trying to hurtthem, okay, all right.
Um, yeah, they just are.
Usually the line will jump downlike downhill.
So, like that was something Ilearned pretty quick was with
(41:00):
clients and stuff.
I'm like you know, get above it, which that's really with
anything, even with wounded game.
You don't want to come below itbecause you don't want it to
run uphill.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Yeah, you would always want it to run down, yeah
yeah, so you were saying too,um, we were talking about like
bobcat or still, you find harderto hunt than um, than mountain
lion, because I've heard that,I've heard bobcats the hardest
thing to tree in north america.
But you'd think some peoplethink, well, why is that?
Wouldn't a mountain lion beharder?
Speaker 2 (41:31):
but yeah, so.
So yeah, lions really aren'tthat hard to catch.
If we're going to be honest, um, there's a huge difference
between a bobcat dog and a and alion dog, um, but yeah,
actually what it is is the thelions have.
Their lungs are, I think it'slike a little bit bigger than a
(41:55):
bobcat's lungs, but they haveall that muscle mass, so their
body can't produce enough oxygen, uh, to their muscles to keep
them going forever.
Usually, once the lion's jumped, it's not but 600 to 800 yards
in its tree usually.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Really, it's that quick.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Does it?
Speaker 1 (42:17):
vary.
Yeah, that's quick, even bear.
I've heard bear marathonrunners, but even tagging along
on bear hunts with hounds.
Oh yeah, the bears can be allday easy.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Yeah yeah, bears are, yeah, bears.
You don't never turn out on oneunless you plan on being there
all day.
Yeah, making some.
Yeah, sometimes they bears willtree in 600 yards, and
sometimes you're on a 10-hourrace for 20 miles.
Yeah, you never catch it.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
So the cats you said they almost are trained in your
area to tree a little quickerbecause they're used to wolves
coming at them.
And I didn't know.
But you were saying, like thewolves they'll hunt down and
kill lions.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Yeah, wow, hunt down and kill lions, yeah, so.
So that's kind of a a thingwe've talked about before too
was, uh, like the.
We wonder, you know, with wolfpressure, does that make lions
tree faster?
Um, cause, you know, if lionsgetting run by a wolf, it's just
used to popping up and then thewolf is like, okay, whatever,
(43:25):
it leaves him alone.
So we're like, you know, ifwe're in an area that that's
happening and you know we run alion with dogs, is that why it's
streaming faster too, or or youknow what's going on?
But yeah, I've, I actually wasout I think it was about a month
ago and I found a big tom trackand there was actually a wolf
(43:50):
following it which I walked thetrack out for probably a mile
and a half and the wolf neverleft it and I was like, okay,
I'm not turning out in this areaanyway.
So I was just hoping the wolfleft it and then I could follow
the track a few miles out orsomething where maybe the wolf
wouldn't get it, cause it was apretty, pretty fresh lion track.
(44:12):
I know some guys will turn outon my tracks in wolf areas If
it's like super, super hot,cause they know it'll tree like
right then and there, but Idon't know that makes me really
nervous.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Not worth the risk.
No, I mean one-on-one the wolf.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Take on a lion, a single wolf a single wolf, a big
tom would kill it all day long,yeah, but you know two wolves
or three wolves, that lion's introuble oh yeah, wow gee.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
So I mean the wolf, is it quite an issue where
you're at the wolves?
Speaker 2 (44:51):
so where I'm at right now it kind of depends where
you go, because if you go southof the reservoir it's not really
a big problem, but if you gonorth of the reservoir it's a
big deal.
And then I was hunting over inIdaho there with a buddy and it
(45:13):
was like everywhere we wentthere was wolf tracks.
Like every single drainagethere was wolf tracks.
It was like how is a guy evensupposed to hound hunt around
here Like man I know over inMissoula way it's been a problem
.
I got some buddies over therethat are constantly fighting
(45:35):
with the wolves.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
Yeah, I mean I hear luckily I don't have to deal
with it here running my houndsand stuff, but yeah I hear it is
quite an issue.
I mean the wolves willspecifically hunt down the
hounds that they hear.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
Yeah, yep, yep.
They hear a pack of hounds.
They'll come right in theirtree and kill the dogs.
And then you just lost yourlast five, ten years of work you
put into all these dogs,because you can't really get on
Amazon and order a four-year-old, finished dog.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
Yeah, no the wolves.
Hopefully politics and stuffcomes to the rescue a little bit
more and they can kind of get ahandle on that in a lot of
areas.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Yeah, yeah, I know Washington's really really bad
with the wolves.
Um, they really need to dosomething about that.
Really, the only thing youcould that's worth hunting in
washington is the fall bearseason, which nobody cares to do
.
That, yeah, and their turkeys,but it ain't gonna be much
longer and they probably won'thave turkeys either.
(46:44):
Because, like it is insane, I Iwent over there and hunted this
year.
We hunted three days, hikedabout 10 miles every single day,
and I don't even remember ifwe've seen a deer.
I don't think we've even seen adeer.
We actually cut a grizzly sow,grizzly with a cub.
(47:04):
That's the only tracks we cut,besides, I think, one set of
deer tracks.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
Yeah, yeah, the wolves are just killing machines
, so.
But they'll work an area andthen, you know, kill everything
there that they can.
They just keep moving on.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
Yeah, yeah, that's what they do.
There was the area that I guidein Montana.
They were telling me I think itwas four or five years ago.
There's this one spot that Iwas actually looking at.
I wanted to go check out and Iwas asking the other guides
(47:39):
about it.
They were like, yeah, that usedto be really good About five
years ago.
Ago.
We went through there and thewolves that had killed 13 elk
wow yeah like right on thisridge and just left them there
oh, they didn't even eat it,really yeah huh, so they'll,
they'll kill just just to kill.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
I've heard that.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
I heard they're just such a ferocious killing machine
that they just, they'll just doit just because they can yeah,
and I I feel really bad forcolorado right now, because
colorado actually has somereally really good hunting,
especially for mule deer, andthey just drop them five wolves
(48:21):
there and it ain't going to belong and they're going to be in
the same shape yeah, I, yeah,I'm a hundred percent against
wolves.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
Um, yeah, I don't, I don't know.
Us hunters can manage the, theecosystem, I think far superior
and putting money back into theeconomy and into conservation.
All that a lot better than apack of wolves.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
Yeah, 100%.
You know.
All it is is people are tryingto make laws and stuff like that
based off of feelings ratherthan facts is what it is.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Yeah, yeah, you know, you see those T-shirts and
everything you know people havewolves on them and this and that
they make them look like such agreat majestic animal.
And I mean they are in managed,you know areas and stuff, but I
mean I don't think peoplerealize how just vicious they
(49:17):
are.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Yeah, they can be.
Yeah, they're prettydevastating to the I.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Uh, I guess prey animals in every area yeah, you
know, and farmers and stuffincluded with you know, the cows
and sheep and all that, yeah,it's uh.
Yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, I'm not a fan, but, um, Iwant to talk to you.
It was neat so you had thatpicture up.
Uh, about the problem cougarhunt, you had a guy out on a
good successful hunt.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Yeah, that was actually the day we found that
lion track with a wolf followingit and we had left.
And then we actually found thisother track.
It was a female, female lion.
I don't like to kill femalesever.
(50:06):
Um, it's kind of a thing youknow a lot of people are like
it's a lion, kill it type ofdeal.
But once I got which that'skind of the mentality I had as
an elk hunter but once I hadhounds and you know, I kind of
got introduced to the houndworld.
That's like the golden rule youdo not kill females, female
(50:28):
lions, or you'll pretty much bebanned from the hound hunting
community, which I mean it'skind of a good thing.
Um, yeah yeah, because which inidaho?
They don't.
They don't have a quota ornothing.
Every single guy in idaho canhave two lion tags and you know,
somebody comes in with a packof dogs.
That's new.
They don't know nothing andthey're taking every single
(50:51):
buddy they know that has a liontag.
That's not real good no so alot of guys.
They just catch them and letthem go, which I really don't.
Have a desire to kill a lionfor the rest of my life, unless
it's a really big tom.
I'd like to shoot a real bigone with my bow.
Yeah, so this female lion.
(51:12):
It was actually killing an oldlady's chickens and goats and it
killed her daughter's dog,which her daughter's her
neighbor dog was her daughter'sneighbor and we uh turned out on
it and it run through theirproperty and then it got up on
(51:33):
some state and then it runthrough I don't even know how
many other people's properties,but every single person was just
like please kill this thing,like it's been harassing us,
it's been harassing everybody inthis little neighborhood.
It had to go and we're like,yeah, yeah, it was time for it
to go, because, I mean, they'relike pretty much the game
(51:54):
department won't do anything andif they do, they're just going
to kill it.
It's going to go away.
So I would rather you know theguy that killed it with me yeah
he's gonna going to make a rugout of it, he's going to eat it.
All that stuff it's not goingto go to waste.
But yeah, the first time ittreed was 30 yards behind
(52:14):
somebody's house.
So that was pretty interestingand I'm just thinking I'm like
man, please, please, don't letthis person be a jerk.
Yeah, let them be normal.
Yeah, exactly, don't let itperson be a jerk.
Yeah, let them be normal.
Yeah, exactly, don't let it bea cat lover.
We're in a pretty rural placeand everybody around here is
kind of pro-hound huntingbecause it's kind of like a
(52:39):
culture in this area.
Everybody knows what a houndbox is and all that stuff, so
they think it's pretty cool, soit's pretty nice.
Um, but yeah, then it bailedout of that tree as soon as I
come through the brush, which Iwas trying to be quiet, because
sometimes them cats will jumpout.
(52:59):
As soon as you uh start gettingclose, they hear some brush
breaking or something and theyjump out.
I was like, all right, I've gotto be quiet.
I went about 10 more yards andI actually tripped on a little
limb and it broke and then itjumped out and ran away.
But yeah, they got it caughtand then uh got rid of it yes,
(53:27):
sir.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
So everyone was uh, and the area was pretty happy.
All the locals were like youknow, good job that was.
I mean you said you're youdon't normally shoot females,
but I mean obviously that one.
You know that was an issue, andif it's brave enough to be
taking people's livestock andeven pets right in their yard,
then I mean what's to say yeah,or attack a human?
Speaker 2 (53:45):
right, exactly, and that was the thing was.
So it was like a, a fingerridge and there's houses all
over it and then it goes down tolike the road uh, like the
public road and there's housesall around down there and it was
cleaned down behind people'shouses along that county road
and then it come up onto thatridge and for some reason every
(54:09):
time the cat jumped three timesfor treat it and then it would
jump and then treat it again.
It jumped and treed jumped andthen treat, and every single
time it would jump, it wouldmake a and for some reason it
didn't want to leave that ridge.
I think it had a kill orsomething up there.
So that was like it's.
(54:30):
The females don't have a hugehome territory Like Tom's.
They'll go 10 miles justhunting, but females kind of
stay in the same little area.
So that thing was kind of justprobably hanging out up there on
that ridge and then, as soon asit ran out of food, go down and
collect somebody's dog orchicken, right, yeah, and head
(54:51):
back up there.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
So it didn't seem to have a real I mean, besides you
guys coming into the tree and itjumping, but I mean if it's
that close to people's housesand all that, it really wasn't
too scared.
Speaker 2 (55:03):
No, no, not at all.
Uh, the one guy he said he hadtrail cam pictures of a couple
different lions, um, but justwithin the last month, so that
probably isn't even the only one.
I think that was probably thatone's home range, and then, you
know, maybe one or two otherones might have been coming
through here and there, but theysaid they had problems with
(55:26):
bears too.
Um, yeah, pretty much that linewas coming becoming a real big
problem for him, um, and the guyhe actually, so it was like a
it's a private drive road thatgoes up this mountain, I guess.
And and the guy actually pickedus up.
I was walking down the road, uh,with one of my puppies and the
(55:51):
dogs had just crossed and he waslike, what are you doing?
Blah, blah.
And I was like we got a lionrace up here, uh, and he was
like, all right, I'll run you upthere real quick.
And he me and my puppy just gotin his truck and he, he hunted
with us the rest of the day.
He was, he wanted to make surethis thing died.
That's pretty cool.
(56:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Everybody caught word up thereof that little community.
They're like awesome, they'reall rooting for you, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (56:21):
Yeah, that's great.
Uh, you know, walker, I can'tthank you enough for for coming
on the podcast.
You're you're an interestingguy.
Um, definitely hope to have youon again, but who is, uh, if
someone wants to check you outand all that who's the outfitter
that you work for?
Speaker 2 (56:35):
so I actually work for a couple different
outfitters, um, so I worked forwayne hill outfitting.
Wayne hill outfitting in Knoxand Montana that's where I do
all my elk hunting and fallhunts.
And then I work for Clark ForkOutfitters in Idaho.
(56:57):
I do some bear hunts with themevery year and I think I have
one rifle elk hunt with themthis year because the way the
seasons lay out there's like atwo-week break and I'll go over
and guide over there and then Ido a little bit.
I do the lion hunts with lion'shead outfitters up in Bonners
(57:18):
Ferry, idaho, and then me myself.
I do I am actually able to.
I have my own outfitter, uh,it's called Blackwoods
Outfitters.
Um, it's just, uh, we just doturkey hunts cause I don't have
any of the forest servicepermits or nothing.
So but I'm able to guide inWashington and, uh, on private
land in Idaho.
(57:39):
So okay, yeah, that's awesomeand uh, it's, it's neat to see
all that and you know on yourInstagram and everything.
Speaker 1 (57:52):
Um, yeah, I see that you're yeah, you're a big turkey
hunter and I want to talk toyou about that another time too.
Yeah, yeah, for sure, That'd beawesome.
Speaker 2 (57:55):
Yeah, all right, Well thanks, and uh, you know, happy
hunting.
Yeah Thanks, have a good oneyou too.
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