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August 31, 2025 37 mins

Can two people truly heal together? Dan argues that the romanticized “grow together” narrative is mostly a fantasy. When one partner refuses to evolve, the relationship becomes a hostage situation, not a spiritual partnership. This episode empowers you to choose growth (even if it means walking alone) and shows why mutual growth requires individual commitment.

Episode highlights:

  • The sunk‑cost and attachment traps that keep you in fantasy.
  • Why walking alone is not selfish but self‑respect.
  • Practical ways to build structure and community while honoring your growth.

Chapters:

0:10 The Growing Together Myth
2:23 The Fantasy of Mutual Growth
8:02 When One Partner Refuses to Grow
13:08 What Keeps You Stuck in the Fantasy
19:42 Growth Is Not a Team Sport
23:49 Outgrowing Someone with Grace
29:20 Walking Alone Is Not Failure
34:12 Final Words: Choose Your Standard

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Daniel Boyd (00:10):
Episode 8 of 19.
Healing together is a fantasy.
You heal alone or not at all,dismantling the we're growing
together myth and what to dowhen you outgrow someone who
won't grow with you.
They're not coming with you andthat's okay.

(00:30):
Episode 8, this episodedismantles the we're growing
together myth and hands you backyour clarity.
You say you're growing togetherbut if we're honest, one of you
is dragging the other down.
You're not healing together.
You're healing next to someonewho refuses to move.

(00:54):
You've been patient, you'vesent them resources, you've
modeled self-awareness, you'vesoftened your truths so they
wouldn't run, and still they'reexactly where you found them,
because growth, growth is notcontagious.

(01:17):
It's a choice and they, theyhaven't made that choice.
You don't evolve as a couple.
You evolve as individuals,individuals who choose to stay
connected while doing the hardwork.
But if only one of you ismoving, let's be honest with

(01:40):
ourselves here.
You're not in a relationship.
You're in a hostage situationwith feelings.
You don't owe your future selfto someone who's committed to
their past.
If you're growing and they'renot leaving them is not
abandonment, it's graduation.

(02:01):
Stop waiting, stop coaching,stop hoping they'll catch up,
because they won't, and you'reallowed to leave without calling
it failure.
It's just reality.
Welcome.

(02:23):
Section 1.
The Fantasy of Mutual Growth.
The montage lied.
Two people do not transform asone.
You are not a chrysalis builtfor two.
You are a person With choices,with costs.
We inherited the we'll growtogether story from movies,

(02:47):
trauma, bonds and idealism.
It feels noble, it sounds safe,it promises you will not have
to face the fire alone.
But most mutual growth is justcodependency with better
lighting.
Codependency means I tradeself-respect for belonging.

(03:08):
I carry both our feelings soyou never have to learn how you
want to believe the myth becauseit keeps you from being alone
with your truth.
Safety, fear of losing them,sunk cost fallacy.
Sunk cost means you keepinvesting because you already
paid so much.

(03:28):
Growth is internal.
It happens in the dark, whereno one can hold your hand, even
if they wanted to.
Parallel growth is rare becauseit requires two separate people
who both choose the hard thingat the same time.
Forced growth is fiction.

(03:51):
If you have to drag them, youare just doing prison labor with
a kiss.
Notice where you soften truthso they will not run.
Notice where you hold theflashlight and your breath.
Notice where your we keeps youfrom saying I am done doing your

(04:13):
work.
You cannot distribute yourawakening like a group project.
Your clarity is yours, theirresistance is theirs, so treat
it that way.
Write two columns down on apiece of paper mine and not mine

(04:34):
.
Under the mine column, writeyour feelings, choices,
boundaries and standards.
Under the not Mine column,write their denial, their pace,
their consequences, or at leastwhat you feel or observe these
things to be.
Circle one thing from the Minecolumn you will act on this week

(04:57):
.
Speak it out loud, then do it.
So let's talk about somenon-romantic places we can use
this.
At work, you start learning howto give direct feedback.
Your teammate keeps gossipinginstead of owning mistakes.
You are not growing together.
You are managing dysfunctionWith your family.

(05:21):
Let's say, you begin settingsober boundaries, but your
siblings keep bringing drama toevery holiday.
You are not healing as a family.
You are choosing sanity.
Change is stage-based.
Readiness matters.
The stages of change model saysthat people move from

(05:42):
pre-contemplation tocontemplation, to preparation,
to action.
You cannot pull someone frompre-contemplation into action
with love alone.
Motivation that sticks isintrinsic.
External pressures may createcompliance, but it does not
create transformation.
Attachment adds fuel.

(06:07):
A trauma bond is built onintensity, broken only by
intermittent relief.
And while intensity feels likedepth, it's not.
Our brains often mistakefamiliar pain for safety because
being able to predict it givesus a dopamine hit.
That is why the wrong personcan still feel like home.

(06:31):
Put more simply, change happensin steps and people only take
those steps when they decide to.
You cannot pull someone into astep they did not choose.
You cannot pull someone into astep they did not choose.
Pain mixed with small amountsof relief can glue you to a bad

(06:53):
bond.
Big feelings feel like depth,but they are not always depth.
The brain likes what it canpredict, even when it hurts,
because predictable feels saferthan unknown.
Now, as a counterpoint,parallel growth can happen.
Two people can choose hardthings at the same time.
It just is not automatic.

(07:15):
It is a pact, renewed inbehavior, not words.
So let's get into some keyterms and simple definitions
here that we're talking aboutTrauma Bond, an intense
attachment built on harm plusrelief.
Codependency, keeping therelationship stable by

(07:36):
abandoning yourself.
Sunk Cost, fallacy, throwinggood time after bad because you
already paid.
Remember that growth is notcontagious.
Choice is contagious.
Section two when one partner isgrowing and the other is not,

(08:01):
you go to therapy.
They mock it, you read, reflectand recalibrate.
They repeat you own yourtriggers, they weaponize theirs.

(08:22):
You say it's a phase, but ithas been a pattern for years.
Be honest with yourself.
You are not confused.
You are hoping.
Hope is beautiful.
But hope without data isself-harm.
Loving someone does not meanthey are capable of walking with
you.
Capability is not a complimentor an insult, it is reality.

(08:42):
Treat it like weather.
Adjust your route.
For example, with therapy, youshare insights.
They call it overthinking.
With conflict, you ask forrepair.
They scorekeep.
With accountability, youapologize first.

(09:06):
They collect your apologieslike trophies.
They may not even hear yourapology.
With consistency, you set a newboundary.
They test it until you cave.
With the future, you suggest aclear plan.

(09:33):
They promise a vibe.
So now let's look into somenon-romantic mirrors.
With friendship, you stopdrinking.
Your closest friend onlyinvites you to bars.
That is not support, that'ssabotage.
With a smile In the gym, youbuild a recovery routine.
Your lifting partner keepspushing.
Ego maxes and ridicules deloadweeks.

(09:54):
That's not a challenge, that isnegligence.
With a startup, you implementretros and accountability.
With a startup, you implementretros and accountability.
Your co-founder prefers hype.
You are not partners, you areballast.

(10:15):
Now let's look at the sciencebehind all this.
Triggers are fast survivalresponses.
They are not villains.
When someone weaponizestriggers, they use their pain to
control the terms of contact.
Adult development models showuneven growth across domains.
Cognitive insight can outpaceemotional regulation.
That gap is where harm leaks.

(10:39):
Motivational interviewingteaches that change talk must
come from the person.
If you're the one doing all thetalking about growth, they're
not growing, they're justlistening.
Maybe Put into simpler terms, atrigger is your fast body alarm
.
It is not evil.
When someone uses their triggerto control the room, that is

(11:04):
harm.
Some people can talk aboutgrowth but cannot calm
themselves.
Yet that gap is where damagehappens.
Real change sticks when theperson wants it for themselves.
If you are pushing them, theyare not ready.
So let's get into practice.

(11:25):
Let's do a three-step audit.
Let's go ahead and label thesteps as keep, confront and quit
.
To do this list threereoccurring dynamics For each
one decide keep it as is,confront with a deadline and a
measurable shift, or quit it ifthe shift does not happen.
Put the dates on paper, holdyourself to them Now, as a

(11:51):
counterpoint to all of this.
Again, give grace a runway, nota lifetime.
People will always stumble onthe way to change because they
are human, just as you are human, whether you hate that or not.
A clear standard with time boxcompassion can be love.
Endless extensions are not love.

(12:14):
They are avoidance wrapped ingood intentions.
So again, let's look at keyterms and brief, concrete
definitions that we've used here.
Trigger A cue that activates anold protective response.
Weaponizing a trigger, usingyour pain to excuse harmful

(12:36):
behaviors.
Boundary the rule for howpeople can engage with you.
A boundary is something youenforce on yourself, not others.
People who think boundaries areabout others.
Well, they jumped into the deepend without ever learning how
to actually swim.
They are not there yet.

(12:57):
The takeaway from all of thisIf they will not walk, stop
dragging.
Section 3.
What keeps you stuck in thefantasy?
It is not love that keeps youthere.
In the fantasy, it is the fog.

(13:19):
Guilt, hope, fear, identityprojection.
Each one whispers a differentversion of stay.
None of them pay your bill withreality, guilt.
I am leaving them behind.
Translation.
I am responsible for theiradulthood.
That is not love, that iscontrol in a cardigan.

(13:44):
Hope they will catch up.
Well, hope is beautiful.
Hope without evidence is asedative Fear.
What if no one else can meet mehere?
Fear confuses rarity withscarcity.

(14:06):
Your standards are not a drought.
They are a filter.
Of course, if you can't meetyour own standards, you are a
child who needs some work.
My friend, identity If I leave,I gave up.
When our identity is built onendurance, suffering turns into

(14:29):
a personality trait.
Projection, but I see who theycould be.
You're dating a forecast, butyou can't kiss potential.
You live with patterns daily.
So let's look into the mirror.
So let's look into the mirror.

(14:50):
Name the last three times youoverrode your data to protect
your story.
Write what actually happened,not your interpretation.
The facts Notice how fast yourbody tries to edit the page.
Crazy, right, the page.
Crazy right now, for your ownsovereignty, you're not

(15:13):
abandoning them.
You're walking away from thefantasy, and those are not the
same thing.
Your life is not a rescuemission.
Now let's look at somenon-romantic examples.
With work, you keep coveringfor a colleague because they are

(15:34):
under a lot of stress.
Your guilt keeps the whole teamsick.
Your family you keep lendingmoney because this time they
mean it.
Your hope funds their pattern.
Fitness you stay in a traininggroup that ridicules recovery
because they are beasts.

(15:56):
Your identity loves the grit.
Your joints pay the bill.
Now let's look at the sciencebehind all this.
Sunk cost fallacy keeps youinvesting because you have
already invested Loss aversionmakes you cling to a poor
relationship to avoid the painof starting over.

(16:20):
Intermittent reinforcementstrengthens attachment to
inconsistent partners becauseunpredictable rewards spike
dopamine.
Yup, it's that easy Attachmentstyles cover the fog partners
because unpredictable rewardsspike dopamine.
Yup, it's that easy Attachmentstyles cover the fog.
Anxious attachment readsdistance as a threat and chases

(16:41):
Avoidant attachments readscloseness as a threat and
retreats.
Both confuse system relief withlove.
Clarity requires toleratingshort-term anxiety in order to
reset long-term patterns.
Putting all of this in simplerterms, basically we keep paying

(17:01):
into bad deals because wealready paid too much.
We hate losing more than welike winning, so we cling
On-again, off-again.
Attention makes attachmentstronger.
Attachment style colors all ofthis Some chase, some run.
Clarity means toleratingshort-term nerves so you can get

(17:21):
long-term peace.
If you can't tolerateshort-term nerves, you are
pretty much screwed already.
So let's practice.
Do another five-minute audit.
You are pretty much screwedalready, so let's practice.
Do another five-minute audit.
If you will Write fivesentences, one for each fog,
under guilt, write I am notresponsible for their change.

(17:45):
Under hope write.
My standard requires evidencewith dates.
Under hope write.
My standard requires evidencewith dates Under fear.
Write I can survive empty spaceUnder identity.

(18:05):
Write I am more than how muchpain I can carry Under
projection.
Write I will date who they are,not who I imagine.
Say them out loud twice.
Then pick one boundary you willenforce this week Because,
again, boundaries are aboutyourself, not other people.
It could be about your reactionto other people and controlling

(18:25):
your reaction, but it is notabout those other people, and
it's amazing to me how manypeople I've run across that do
not know this fundamental,simple difference.
But then again they're usuallythe people that find healing
language and use it as a frontto avoid growth.

(18:46):
So there's that.
The key terms here, with a brief, concrete definition, or
one-liners, if you will, are asfollows sunk cost fallacy is
throwing more time at a bad betbecause you already paid.
Intermittent reinforcement isunpredictable rewards that
intensify attachment.
Projection is seeing your wishon someone else's face.

(19:10):
Now, before you get all grim onme, let's acknowledge a
counterpoint.
Holding hope is not the problem.
Holding responsibility for twopeople is Let hope live, but
make it pay rent.
The biggest thing to rememberhere.

(19:31):
Do not confuse your fantasywith their capacity.
Section four growth is not ateam sport.
You face your demons alone.
You rewrite your narrativealone.
You sit with your triggers andchoose differently, alone,

(19:52):
unless the other person is doingthe same work.
They are not your partner.
They are your anchor.
Growth is solitary.
Relationships are optional.
A relationship can support yourwork, but it cannot substitute
for it.
So let's look in the mirroragain.
A relationship can support yourwork, but it cannot substitute
for it.
So let's look in the mirroragain.

(20:13):
Where are you trying tooutsource your courage?
What are you callingco-regulation?
What is actually emotionaldependency?
Co-regulation is healthynervous system support between
people.
Dependency is when your nervoussystem refuses to function
without theirs.
Set the standard you live by,not a threat, a lighthouse.

(20:37):
This is how I handle conflict.
This is how I repair.
This is how I rest.
Join me or do not, and thenwatch behavior, not words, or do
not, and then watch behavior,not words.
Some non-romantic examples ofthis could be when it comes to
fitness.
A coach can cue your form.

(20:58):
They cannot lift your bar Insobriety.
A sponsor can guide, but theycannot refuse the drink for you.
In creative work, a mastermindcan challenge, but they cannot
finish your draft.
So how do we practice this.
Well, we're going to do the30-30 rule.

(21:18):
Thirty days, choose one growthbehavior you will own, without
reminders.
Some examples could be a dailynervous system regulation for
five minutes, a written repairscript after conflict within 24

(21:40):
hours, your phone in anotherroom at midnight.
Track it.
If you need the other person tocomply in order to execute your
practice, pick a differentpractice.
So let's talk about the sciencebehind this.
Self-determination theory sayssustainable change is built on
autonomy, competence andrelatedness.
Autonomy means the choice ismine.

(22:01):
Competence means I can do theskill.
Relatedness means I feelconnected while I do it.
Relationships help withrelatedness.
They do not create autonomy orcompetence.
Emotional regulation has twolanes self-regulation and

(22:27):
co-regulation.
Both of these lanes matter.
Co-regulation is the hand onyour back while you breathe.
Self-regulation is you choosingto breathe when the hand is not
there.
Without self-regulation,co-regulation becomes a leash.
So let's talk about the keyterms we've used and their
definitions.
Co-regulation is a sharednervous system.

(22:47):
Steadiness during stress.
Co-regulation is a sharednervous system.
Steadiness during stress.
Self-regulation is calming anddirecting your own nervous
system.
A boundary is a rule youenforce on yourself about what
you allow.
So how about a counterpoint?
Community accelerates growthwhen each person owns their lane

(23:10):
.
Collective healing spaces canbe sacred.
The moment the circle replacespersonal responsibility, the
medicine turns to sugar.
Though.
Write your personal standard infour lines Conflict, repair,
rest, truth.
Read it before hardconversations.
If the other person repeatedlyviolates the standard, stop

(23:34):
negotiating, start deciding.
Remember love can walk besideyou, but it cannot walk for you.
Section five what to do whenyou outgrow someone?
Section 5.
What to do when you outgrowsomeone?
Outgrowing someone is notbetrayal, it is measurement.

(23:55):
You measured reality againstyour standard.
Reality answered Grieve who youwere with them.
Then act like the person youbecame.
When it comes to grieving whoyou were with them, hold a
memorial for the version of youthat fit into that relationship.
Name what that era gave you.

(24:16):
Name what it cost you.
Grief is not a sign you chosewrong.
Grief is the bill for havingloved.
And next, stop coaching themand next stop coaching them.
Coaching is control withempathy.
Clothes.
Support says here's my example.
Coaching says here's yourhomework.

(24:39):
Put the clipboard down.
Tell the truth both to them andto yourself.
Use plain words with no fluff.
This isn't working for me.
I need consistent repair.
I need a partner who does owntheir own work.
Truth is not cruelty.

(25:00):
Truth is consent.
Set the standard.
A standard is the minimumrequired for access.
It is not a wish, it is not aweapon.
Speak it once, make sure theyheard you.
Then watch their behavior.

(25:20):
Walk with clarity, not cruelty.
You do not need to destroytheir character to justify your
exit.
You need to honor your data.
Leave in a way you'll be proudto remember.
So let's look in the mirroragain.
What part of you still needs tobe the teacher?

(25:43):
What part of you still wants towin the relationship by fixing
it?
Name that part, thank it andthen retire it.
Make a decision.
You can stand on in a courtroomof your own values If you stay.
Set a timeline and metrics Ifyou go.

(26:04):
Set a date and an actual plan.
So again, let's look at somenon-romantic examples here.
So this could be.
Let's say you have a bandmate.
You keep showing up on time.
They keep showing up high.
Let's talk about the co-founder.
You implement retros.
They chase hype, buyout orbreak With training partners.

(26:29):
You log sleep and recovery.
They mock deloads.
Get a new partner.
So let's get into the sciencebehind this.
The investment model sayscommitment rides on satisfaction
, quality of alternatives andinvestment.
When satisfaction drops andalternatives rise, commitment

(26:51):
falls.
The dual process model of griefshows healthy coping oscillates
between loss focus andrestoration focus.
You can cry and change yourlocks in the same week.
That is healthy Behavior change.
Data says implementationintention helps.
If X happens, then I will do Y.

(27:13):
Decisions stick when they arespecific and time bound.
So now let's practice.
I'm going to give you threescripts.
You use these as written.
Clarity script I care about you.

(27:35):
I am not available for arelationship that repeats this
pattern.
My standard is consistentrepair within 24 hours after
conflict.
If this is not your path, Irelease you.
Boundary script If you mocktherapy again, I will end the
conversation and leave Exitscript I am ending this

(27:56):
relationship on Friday.
I will drop your things off atnoon.
I wish you well.
So again, to explain the termsthat we've used, because we
can't always assume that peopleknow what we've said, because
they're not the ones who termsthat we've used, because we
can't always assume that peopleknow what we've said, because
their definition of a word mightbe different.

(28:17):
The definition of a standardhere is the minimum required for
access and yes, if you have toomany standards, good luck with
your life.
A boundary is a rule I enforceon myself about what I allow
Implementation intention, anif-slash-then plan that turns

(28:41):
values into action.
Now again, as a counterpoint,do not confuse a hard season
with a hard person.
As a counterpoint, do notconfuse a hard season with a
hard person.
If you see sincere repair,measurable change and time
consistency, you can renegotiate.
Make a 60-day contract Reviewwith data, not vibes.

(29:10):
At the end of the day, remember, leave like the adult you
became, not the child you had tobe.
Section 6.
Walking alone is not a failure.
It is not cold, it is conscious.
It is not selfish, it isself-respect.
You're not better than them.

(29:34):
You are done shrinking.
Walking alone is a strategy,not a scarlet letter.
Where did you learn thataloneness equals defect?
Was it a family story?
Was it culture?
Was it religion?
Name the script.
Scripts lose power when youread them out loud.

(29:54):
Design your solitude, do notfall into it.
Solitude on purpose heals.
Isolation by accident harms.
Build structure that keeps youhuman.

(30:16):
So let's do a practice the soloseason blueprint.
Seven days to set the frame.
On day one, write yournon-negotiables Sleep, window,
movement, food prep, phone rules.
On day two, do a nervous system.
Practice Five minutes of breath, work or cold water or a quiet

(30:37):
walk daily.
On day three repair ritual withself Write one page after any
conflict what I felt, what I did, what I will do next time.
Day four is all about socialanchors.
Schedule two honest check-insthis week with people who can

(31:03):
hold truth.
On day five this is for apurpose block One hour on the
work that matters the same timeeach day.
On day six beauty appointmentmusic, sunlight, clean space
Something that reminds your bodythat life is worth it.

(31:23):
On day seven review keep,confront, quit, adjust the plan.
Now again for some non-romanticexamples.
Let's say that you're analcoholic and you have sobriety.
You may have to skip the grouptrip to the brewery.

(31:44):
Choose the meeting, choose yourbed In your career.
Take the role in a new citybecause you value growth.
Build community on arrival Increative work.
Finish the draft without thecollaborator who keeps canceling
.
Ship it.

(32:07):
Let's look at the science again.
Solitude and loneliness are notthe same.
Loneliness is perceived socialdisconnection.
It correlates with worse healthoutcomes.
Structured solitude supportsself-regulation and creative
problem-solving.
Self-compassion practicesreduce shame and increase

(32:29):
resilience when leaving arelationship.
Quality of connections mattersfar more than quantity of
connections.
Two steady anchors beat tenshallow pings.
The key terms and definitionswe are using are as follows
Solitude, a chosen alonenessthat restores you Loneliness, a

(32:54):
felt disconnection that drainsyou Self-compassion, treating
yourself like someone you areresponsible for helping.
Now again, let's always offer acounterpoint here.
Check your motive.
Sometimes leaving is clarity,sometimes leaving is flight.

(33:16):
If your body relaxes when youset standards and you can still
stay present in the tension, itis likely clarity.
If you bail, the second someoneasks for repair.
Second, someone asks for repair, that's not clarity, it might

(33:36):
just be fear.
Adjust accordingly.
Fear is only fear, ego is onlyego.
So let me give you aninvitation make a one-page solo
pact.
I choose solitude to honor mystandard.
I will not use it to punish orto hide.
Then sign it and date it.
Read it before any bigdecisions.

(33:58):
If you take away nothing elsefrom this section, remember this
Alone is not empty, alone isexact empty.
Alone is exact, section 7.
Final words you cannot grow fortwo.
Love can walk beside someone.

(34:19):
It cannot walk for them.
That is not cynicism, that isgravity.
Where are you stillvolunteering as their spare
nervous system?
Where are you still measuringyour worth by how much weight
you can carry for two?

(34:40):
Your life is a contract betweenyou and your values, not you
and their potential.
Release the fantasy.
Keep the lesson.
Keep your pace.
Put a hand on your chest, sayyour first and last name out
loud.
Then say this I choose mystandard.

(35:02):
I honor my grief.
I refuse to carry what is notmine Text.
One trusted friend Tell themhold me to my standard this
month.
Set a check-in date Fornon-romantic things.
Let's say work, for example.

(35:22):
You will stop fixing yourteammates' deadlines.
You document your lane.
You let their missed deliveryspeak for itself.
That is not abandonment.
That is truth.
Enduring change requiresself-generated motivation.
External forces can sparkmovement, but it cannot maintain

(35:46):
it.
Boundaries function asself-regulation.
They keep your behavior alignedwith your values.
When emotions surge, clarityplus consequences builds
integrity.
Integrity builds peace.
Remember you are not leavinglove.

(36:06):
You are leaving the job youwere never hired to do in the
first place, and the last wordbelongs to you.
You can love someone deeply,you can wish the best for them,
but you cannot want theirhealing more than they want it
for themselves, and you sure ashell cannot carry them up the

(36:28):
mountain you were meant to climbalone.
Thank you.
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The Joe Rogan Experience

The Joe Rogan Experience

The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.

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