November 10, 2024 • 14 mins
What if women are reshaping the dating landscape by embracing celibacy and shaving their heads to symbolize a demand for commitment? That's the bold move some women are making, echoing South Korea's revolutionary 4B movement. Join us as we explore this trend's empowering potential and the seemingly self-restricting choices it entails. We dive into how this shift in dynamics is stirring a variety of reactions from men, ranging from criticism to empathy, and uncover how some women might be engaging in performative activism without fully adhering to celibacy. This episode tackles the complex interplay of personal empowerment and societal expectations, inviting you to reflect on whether this is a conscious movement for change or an instinctive reaction to dating frustrations.
But we don't stop there; we also lighten the mood by celebrating the power of humor to navigate life's challenges. Laughter, as we discuss, is not just a tool for relief but a bridge for understanding and connection. We encourage listeners to embrace life's complexities with an open heart and a sense of humor, reinforcing the importance of viewing the world from multiple perspectives. By integrating humor into our exploration of serious topics, we push for a balanced outlook on the ever-evolving norms of relationships and the joy of shared experiences. This episode blends serious reflection with lighthearted insights, offering a unique perspective on how societal shifts can be met with both introspection and laughter.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So have you heard about this trend where women are
abstaining from intimacy?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Yeah, definitely it's been making the rounds.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Yeah, unless a man commits, and some are even
shaving their heads as a symbolof their commitment.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
It's interesting, right.
It seems to have some looseconnection to that 4B movement
in South Korea.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Right no dating, dating no marriage, no sex, no
childbirth yeah this new trendis, uh, it's sparking a lot of
conversation, that's for sureyeah, and not everyone's on
board not at all even amongwomen, and that's what makes it
so interesting for us to do adeep dive on this absolutely uh,
you know, we have some articles, we have some forum discussions
about this trend and we reallywant to unpack it.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, you know like what?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
what is the motivation behind this, and
maybe even explore somepotential consequences.
One of the things that reallyjumped out at me was the
observation that a lot of womendrawn to this trend are, you
know, maybe those who alreadyhave some challenges forming
long-term relationships.
It seems kind ofcounterintuitive.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
It does seem a little , yeah, paradoxical at least on
the surface.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I mean from a sociological perspective.
This could be, you know, somekind of manifestation of
frustration with how dating is.
You know, right?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Maybe they feel like the traditional ways of finding
a partner aren't working.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
So they're trying something well more radical.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
It makes you think about agency right.
Are they consciously trying tochange the dating landscape or
is it more subconscious?
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah, I mean it's interesting because on the one
hand, it's like they're takingcontrol, setting boundaries, you
know, demanding respect, yeah,but on the one hand, it's like
they're taking control, settingboundaries, you know, demanding
respect, yeah, but on the otherhand, it could be seen as kind
of a self-limiting choice.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
It's true.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
You know, and then our sources also highlight that
some women, they see this asbeneficial.
Oh, interesting, like, almostlike it's eliminating
competition.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Like.
Hey, thanks for opting out.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Hmm, that's where evolutionary psychology might be
helpful.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
OK.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
You know the whole mate selection competition thing
Right Deeply rooted in ourbiology.
Of course, you know modernrelationships are way more
nuanced, but it's possible thatsome women see this as a way to
be more attractive.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Within a certain segment.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, you know.
This whole thing reminds me ofthat man versus bear trend.
Oh, right, yeah, that was allover the internet for a while.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Everyone was like terrified of bears.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Right.
And then someone pointed outthe statistics.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
And you realize it's not really.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
The fear is not really it's proportional to the
actual danger it's not reallythe fear is not really
proportional to the actualdanger.
Yeah, yeah, exactly right andthen it just disappeared.
Yeah, do you think this couldbe similar?
It's possible.
Yeah, social media can reallyamplify things, sure, especially
stuff that gets peopleemotional, and a lot of times
people don't really think thingsthrough, they just jump on the
bandwagon.
So, yeah, it could fizzle outjust as quickly so what about
(03:05):
men's reactions to this wholething?
Speaker 1 (03:08):
What does the source material say about that?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well, it seems like most men see it, as you know, a
bit misguided.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
OK.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Maybe even immature yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
But there's also a sense of empathy.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Oh interesting.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
It's not just like oh , those silly women, you know
there's there's a genuineattempt to understand.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Which I think speaks to the bigger issue of you know
how men and women communicate?
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Especially when it comes to relationships.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Right and how those are changing.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Exactly, everyone wants to understand each other.
Yeah, but it can be hard to,you know, find the right way to
do that Totally, you know findthe right way to do that Totally
.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
And here's where it gets even more complicated.
Yeah, because, according to oursources, a lot of the women who
are advocating for this, forthis celibacy, they're not
actually abstaining.
Oh really.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah, they're citing dating app data, so it's a.
It's not quite what it seems.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
It's a real head scratcher.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yeah, it makes you think about you know, this idea
of performative activism.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Right, right.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Especially online.
People want to look good, youknow.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Project a certain image.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
So the question is are they really committed to
this, or is it just for show?
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah, it's like they're waving this celibacy
flag Right, but then behind thescenes.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
It's business as usual.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Yeah, exactly.
Our source even told a storyabout how some men are now
seeing shaved heads as a sign toto avoid certain women.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Wow, like a warning sign.
Right, you know there's a wholefield of study about this.
It's called signaling theory.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Oh great.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
It looks at how we interpret cues in social
situations, and in this case thesignal is backfiring.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah, it's creating barriers instead of, you know,
bringing people together.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
One thing our source pointed out was this idea that
men tend to be more logical whenit comes to these sorts of
debates, and women are moredriven by emotion.
You even said it's like afundamental difference.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Well, research does suggest that there are
differences in how men and womencommunicate and how they
process emotions, but we have tobe careful about generalizing
Everyone's different.
You can't just put people inboxes.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaking of navigating trickytopics, our source also
mentioned that he's reallycautious about political
discussions these days.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah, I can understand that.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Especially with all the misinformation and media
bias.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
It's everywhere.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
He even brought up that clip of former President
Trump.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
The fine people on both sides thing.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, yeah, apparently the full context is
different from what was widelycirculated.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
It just shows how important critical thinking is.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
And media literacy.
We're bombarded withinformation all the time.
Yeah, we have to be carefulabout what we believe.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Absolutely.
In fact, our source actuallyhad to change some of his own
views.
Yeah, after he did someresearch.
He had to change some of hisown views, yeah, after he did
some research he had tochallenge his own assumptions.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
It can be hard to do that.
It is.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
It is, but it's about finding the truth For sure, you
know, not just sticking to whatyou already believe.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Sounds like your source had a really valuable
experience.
That's what it's all about, youknow, being open to learning
new things.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Absolutely.
And speaking of journeys, oursource said his time in the
military really shaped hisworldview.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Oh, interesting, how so.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
He learned that things are rarely black and
white.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Makes sense.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
You know, there are always shades of gray.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Real life situations are complicated, you can't
always categorize things easily.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
The military definitely exposes you to a lot
of different perspectives.
It makes you think about thingsto a lot of different
perspectives.
It makes you think about thingsin a new way.
Absolutely yeah, it really does.
And it brings us back to thiswhole celibacy thing, Like is it
really empowering?
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Right.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Or is it, you know, maybe accidentally
self-sabotaging?
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yeah, it's a question I keep coming back to.
On the one hand I totally getit, you know, setting boundaries
, taking control, especially indating, which can be so
confusing, oh yeah, andsometimes it feels really unfair
Totally.
But then I wonder about, youknow, are there consequences
they aren't thinking about?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah, and especially when what they're saying doesn't
match up with what they'reactually doing.
Exactly, exactly.
And if we dig a little deeper,I think we'll find a lot of
different reasons why women aredoing this.
Some might really want tochange their lives.
You know, they're done withshallow connections.
They want something more yeahbut for others it might be more
(07:37):
about like making a statement orthey're frustrated and this is
how they're expressing it, ormaybe they just want attention.
Who, who knows?
Speaker 1 (07:45):
It makes me think about like social media and how
it affects us.
Oh, absolutely Like we'reconstantly told how to look, how
to act, how to feel.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
It's hard to escape.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
It is, it is.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
And it's easy to get caught up in that and try to
project some perfect image.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Right, even if it's not really you.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Exactly, and that's where we get back to this
performative activism thing.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Right, right.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Social media makes it so easy to like show off your
good deeds, even if you're notreally living that way.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yeah.
So you have to wonder are theseonline movements actually
changing anything?
Speaker 1 (08:19):
It's a good question, Like are we really talking
about these issues honestly?
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Or is it all just for show?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
talking about these issues honestly, yeah, or is it
all just for show?
And I think the fact that evenwomen are divided on this
celibacy thing right it showsjust how tough these
conversations are it really doesand it reminds us to be, you
know, understanding andempathetic.
when we talk about this stuff,it's not about picking sides or
judging anyone right.
It's about recognizing thatpeople are complicated and
there's not one right answer foreveryone.
(08:47):
I agree, I agree, and it'simportant to remember that you
know, not every woman who's intothis trend is doing it for the
same reason.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Some genuinely feel stronger by setting boundaries
and putting their own needsfirst.
Others might be dealing withpast pain, right?
Or they're just fed up withdating.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
It's about seeing the individual.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Exactly.
You can't generalize.
Everyone has their own story.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Our source also talked about how the media
influences these conversations.
Like the same event can bepresented in totally different
ways.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Oh, for sure.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Depending on who's reporting it Totally.
He even brought up that Trumpclip again as an example.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Oh, right, with the editing and everything.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, it shows how media bias can really twist
things.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yeah, it's scary how easily they can manipulate what
we see and hear.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
And it makes you realize like we have to be
really careful about what webelieve.
Absolutely we have to check thesources, look for bias and do
our own research, it can beoverwhelming, though oh totally,
With so much information comingat us.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, that's why media literacy is so important.
We have to be able to filterthrough all that noise and
figure out what's real.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
So it's about developing those skills, the
critical thinking.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Exactly questioning everything and understanding how
information is put together andspread around.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Okay.
So if we wanted to boil thisall down for our listeners, what
are the key takeaways?
Speaker 2 (10:08):
I think the biggest one is to remember that people
are complex.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
There's always more going on than meets the eye, so
be curious, try to understandwhere other people are coming
from.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
That's a great one.
What else?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Media literacy for sure.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
We can't just believe everything we read or see.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
We need to be skeptical.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Absolutely Always question the source.
Look for different viewpoints.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
The critical thinking is key.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Exactly, and I think the last thing is to remember
we're all in this together.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
We're all learning, we're all trying to figure
things out.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
It's okay to disagree , but let's do it respectfully.
No-transcript.
The nuances, the contradictionsyeah, We've looked at why women
(11:04):
might be doing this, what couldhappen and how it fits into
society.
Now it's up to each listener todecide what they think.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I like that, empowering our audience to form
their own opinions Exactly.
So, as we wrap up, what's ourfinal thought for everyone?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
How about this?
Regardless of why it'shappening or what the outcome?
Is what does this celibacytrend say about men and women
today?
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Is it a symptom of something bigger, a demand for
change, or just a fad that willdisappear?
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Hmm, that's a good one.
Yeah, it's something to thinkabout, definitely, and on that
note, we'll let our listenerscontinue the conversation.
Tell us what you think.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Share your thoughts and experiences on social media.
We want to hear from you.
It really makes you think, youknow, like when you, when you
dig into something like this.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
It does.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
And you start to see all these, these different
layers.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
And it shows how how connected everything really is.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
I mean yeah exactly Like we started with this dating
trend, but we've talked aboutwhat psychology and media and
even like what is truth it's allrelated.
Yeah, our source said somethingthat that really stuck with me
this idea that life isn't blackand white.
He said being in the military,uh, taught him to see the shades
of gray I can see that and itmade me think of, you know,
(12:21):
cognitive dissonance right whereyou have these conflicting
ideas yeah, yeah, and it's likeyour brain doesn't want to
accept both.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
It can be uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
It can be.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
And it makes us want to, you know, simplify things.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Right.
Put them in neat little boxes.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Like this is good, this is bad, yeah but life's not
like that.
It's messy, full ofcontradictions.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
And maybe that's okay .
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Maybe that's where the freedom is.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
It's like we're all trying to solve this giant
puzzle, but we're using thewrong pieces.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Or trying to force them to fit.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
And that's how you get stuck.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
It is, it is and frustrated.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
And then people start fighting.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Right, right.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
But if we just accept that there are different ways
of looking at things, even onissues that seem simple, it
makes things a lot easier.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Totally, totally, totally.
You know, even when our sourcewas talking about all this
serious stuff.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
He still found a way to to make light of it.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
He seems to have a good sense of humor.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
He does.
He does.
He said.
He tries not to quote pick onpeople who disagree with him.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
OK.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Because he said it's like picking on a five year old.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
I like that.
It's a good perspective.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
It is, it is.
Sometimes you need to justlaugh, you know.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Humor can be a lifesaver.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Especially when things get heavy.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah, it helps you keep things in perspective.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Right, remember, we're all in this together.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
We're all just figuring things out as we go.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Yeah, it's like we're all stumbling around in the
dark Trying to find the lightswitch Exactly stumbling around
in the dark Trying to find thelight switch Exactly, and
instead of getting mad at eachother.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
We can laugh about it .
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, find the humor in it all.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Because in the end, we're all human.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
We are, we are.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
And maybe by laughing together we can start to break
down those walls that divide us.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
And find that common ground.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Exactly.
So, as we wrap up this deepdive, what's the one thing we
want our listeners to take awayfrom all this?
I'd say don't be afraid ofcomplexity okay, challenge
yourself to see things fromdifferent angles.
Be open to new ideas, exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Never stop learning and never lose your sense of
humor.
Exactly, well said, well saidthanks for having me this was
great.
Thanks for joining us on thisdeep dive, everyone.
We'll see you next time.
So have you heard about this trend where women are
abstaining from intimacy?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Yeah, definitely it's been making the rounds.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Yeah, unless a man commits, and some are even
shaving their heads as a symbolof their commitment.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
It's interesting, right.
It seems to have some looseconnection to that 4B movement
in South Korea.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Right no dating, dating no marriage, no sex, no
childbirth yeah this new trendis, uh, it's sparking a lot of
conversation, that's for sureyeah, and not everyone's on
board not at all even amongwomen, and that's what makes it
so interesting for us to do adeep dive on this absolutely uh,
you know, we have some articles, we have some forum discussions
about this trend and we reallywant to unpack it.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, you know like what?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
what is the motivation behind this, and
maybe even explore somepotential consequences.
One of the things that reallyjumped out at me was the
observation that a lot of womendrawn to this trend are, you
know, maybe those who alreadyhave some challenges forming
long-term relationships.
It seems kind ofcounterintuitive.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
It does seem a little , yeah, paradoxical at least on
the surface.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I mean from a sociological perspective.
This could be, you know, somekind of manifestation of
frustration with how dating is.
You know, right?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Maybe they feel like the traditional ways of finding
a partner aren't working.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
So they're trying something well more radical.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
It makes you think about agency right.
Are they consciously trying tochange the dating landscape or
is it more subconscious?
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah, I mean it's interesting because on the one
hand, it's like they're takingcontrol, setting boundaries, you
know, demanding respect, yeah,but on the one hand, it's like
they're taking control, settingboundaries, you know, demanding
respect, yeah, but on the otherhand, it could be seen as kind
of a self-limiting choice.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
It's true.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
You know, and then our sources also highlight that
some women, they see this asbeneficial.
Oh, interesting, like, almostlike it's eliminating
competition.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Like.
Hey, thanks for opting out.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Hmm, that's where evolutionary psychology might be
helpful.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
OK.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
You know the whole mate selection competition thing
Right Deeply rooted in ourbiology.
Of course, you know modernrelationships are way more
nuanced, but it's possible thatsome women see this as a way to
be more attractive.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Within a certain segment.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, you know.
This whole thing reminds me ofthat man versus bear trend.
Oh, right, yeah, that was allover the internet for a while.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Everyone was like terrified of bears.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Right.
And then someone pointed outthe statistics.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
And you realize it's not really.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
The fear is not really it's proportional to the
actual danger it's not reallythe fear is not really
proportional to the actualdanger.
Yeah, yeah, exactly right andthen it just disappeared.
Yeah, do you think this couldbe similar?
It's possible.
Yeah, social media can reallyamplify things, sure, especially
stuff that gets peopleemotional, and a lot of times
people don't really think thingsthrough, they just jump on the
bandwagon.
So, yeah, it could fizzle outjust as quickly so what about
(03:05):
men's reactions to this wholething?
Speaker 1 (03:08):
What does the source material say about that?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well, it seems like most men see it, as you know, a
bit misguided.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
OK.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Maybe even immature yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
But there's also a sense of empathy.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Oh interesting.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
It's not just like oh , those silly women, you know
there's there's a genuineattempt to understand.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Which I think speaks to the bigger issue of you know
how men and women communicate?
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Especially when it comes to relationships.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Right and how those are changing.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Exactly, everyone wants to understand each other.
Yeah, but it can be hard to,you know, find the right way to
do that Totally, you know findthe right way to do that Totally
.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
And here's where it gets even more complicated.
Yeah, because, according to oursources, a lot of the women who
are advocating for this, forthis celibacy, they're not
actually abstaining.
Oh really.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah, they're citing dating app data, so it's a.
It's not quite what it seems.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
It's a real head scratcher.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yeah, it makes you think about you know, this idea
of performative activism.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Right, right.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Especially online.
People want to look good, youknow.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Project a certain image.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
So the question is are they really committed to
this, or is it just for show?
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah, it's like they're waving this celibacy
flag Right, but then behind thescenes.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
It's business as usual.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Yeah, exactly.
Our source even told a storyabout how some men are now
seeing shaved heads as a sign toto avoid certain women.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Wow, like a warning sign.
Right, you know there's a wholefield of study about this.
It's called signaling theory.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Oh great.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
It looks at how we interpret cues in social
situations, and in this case thesignal is backfiring.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah, it's creating barriers instead of, you know,
bringing people together.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
One thing our source pointed out was this idea that
men tend to be more logical whenit comes to these sorts of
debates, and women are moredriven by emotion.
You even said it's like afundamental difference.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Well, research does suggest that there are
differences in how men and womencommunicate and how they
process emotions, but we have tobe careful about generalizing
Everyone's different.
You can't just put people inboxes.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaking of navigating trickytopics, our source also
mentioned that he's reallycautious about political
discussions these days.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah, I can understand that.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Especially with all the misinformation and media
bias.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
It's everywhere.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
He even brought up that clip of former President
Trump.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
The fine people on both sides thing.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, yeah, apparently the full context is
different from what was widelycirculated.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
It just shows how important critical thinking is.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
And media literacy.
We're bombarded withinformation all the time.
Yeah, we have to be carefulabout what we believe.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Absolutely.
In fact, our source actuallyhad to change some of his own
views.
Yeah, after he did someresearch.
He had to change some of hisown views, yeah, after he did
some research he had tochallenge his own assumptions.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
It can be hard to do that.
It is.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
It is, but it's about finding the truth For sure, you
know, not just sticking to whatyou already believe.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Sounds like your source had a really valuable
experience.
That's what it's all about, youknow, being open to learning
new things.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Absolutely.
And speaking of journeys, oursource said his time in the
military really shaped hisworldview.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Oh, interesting, how so.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
He learned that things are rarely black and
white.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Makes sense.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
You know, there are always shades of gray.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Real life situations are complicated, you can't
always categorize things easily.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
The military definitely exposes you to a lot
of different perspectives.
It makes you think about thingsto a lot of different
perspectives.
It makes you think about thingsin a new way.
Absolutely yeah, it really does.
And it brings us back to thiswhole celibacy thing, Like is it
really empowering?
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Right.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Or is it, you know, maybe accidentally
self-sabotaging?
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yeah, it's a question I keep coming back to.
On the one hand I totally getit, you know, setting boundaries
, taking control, especially indating, which can be so
confusing, oh yeah, andsometimes it feels really unfair
Totally.
But then I wonder about, youknow, are there consequences
they aren't thinking about?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah, and especially when what they're saying doesn't
match up with what they'reactually doing.
Exactly, exactly.
And if we dig a little deeper,I think we'll find a lot of
different reasons why women aredoing this.
Some might really want tochange their lives.
You know, they're done withshallow connections.
They want something more yeahbut for others it might be more
(07:37):
about like making a statement orthey're frustrated and this is
how they're expressing it, ormaybe they just want attention.
Who, who knows?
Speaker 1 (07:45):
It makes me think about like social media and how
it affects us.
Oh, absolutely Like we'reconstantly told how to look, how
to act, how to feel.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
It's hard to escape.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
It is, it is.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
And it's easy to get caught up in that and try to
project some perfect image.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Right, even if it's not really you.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Exactly, and that's where we get back to this
performative activism thing.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Right, right.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Social media makes it so easy to like show off your
good deeds, even if you're notreally living that way.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yeah.
So you have to wonder are theseonline movements actually
changing anything?
Speaker 1 (08:19):
It's a good question, Like are we really talking
about these issues honestly?
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Or is it all just for show?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
talking about these issues honestly, yeah, or is it
all just for show?
And I think the fact that evenwomen are divided on this
celibacy thing right it showsjust how tough these
conversations are it really doesand it reminds us to be, you
know, understanding andempathetic.
when we talk about this stuff,it's not about picking sides or
judging anyone right.
It's about recognizing thatpeople are complicated and
there's not one right answer foreveryone.
(08:47):
I agree, I agree, and it'simportant to remember that you
know, not every woman who's intothis trend is doing it for the
same reason.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Some genuinely feel stronger by setting boundaries
and putting their own needsfirst.
Others might be dealing withpast pain, right?
Or they're just fed up withdating.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
It's about seeing the individual.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Exactly.
You can't generalize.
Everyone has their own story.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Our source also talked about how the media
influences these conversations.
Like the same event can bepresented in totally different
ways.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Oh, for sure.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Depending on who's reporting it Totally.
He even brought up that Trumpclip again as an example.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Oh, right, with the editing and everything.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, it shows how media bias can really twist
things.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yeah, it's scary how easily they can manipulate what
we see and hear.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
And it makes you realize like we have to be
really careful about what webelieve.
Absolutely we have to check thesources, look for bias and do
our own research, it can beoverwhelming, though oh totally,
With so much information comingat us.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, that's why media literacy is so important.
We have to be able to filterthrough all that noise and
figure out what's real.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
So it's about developing those skills, the
critical thinking.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Exactly questioning everything and understanding how
information is put together andspread around.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Okay.
So if we wanted to boil thisall down for our listeners, what
are the key takeaways?
Speaker 2 (10:08):
I think the biggest one is to remember that people
are complex.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
There's always more going on than meets the eye, so
be curious, try to understandwhere other people are coming
from.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
That's a great one.
What else?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Media literacy for sure.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
We can't just believe everything we read or see.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
We need to be skeptical.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Absolutely Always question the source.
Look for different viewpoints.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
The critical thinking is key.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Exactly, and I think the last thing is to remember
we're all in this together.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
We're all learning, we're all trying to figure
things out.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
It's okay to disagree , but let's do it respectfully.
No-transcript.
The nuances, the contradictionsyeah, We've looked at why women
(11:04):
might be doing this, what couldhappen and how it fits into
society.
Now it's up to each listener todecide what they think.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I like that, empowering our audience to form
their own opinions Exactly.
So, as we wrap up, what's ourfinal thought for everyone?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
How about this?
Regardless of why it'shappening or what the outcome?
Is what does this celibacytrend say about men and women
today?
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Is it a symptom of something bigger, a demand for
change, or just a fad that willdisappear?
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Hmm, that's a good one.
Yeah, it's something to thinkabout, definitely, and on that
note, we'll let our listenerscontinue the conversation.
Tell us what you think.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Share your thoughts and experiences on social media.
We want to hear from you.
It really makes you think, youknow, like when you, when you
dig into something like this.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
It does.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
And you start to see all these, these different
layers.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
And it shows how how connected everything really is.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
I mean yeah exactly Like we started with this dating
trend, but we've talked aboutwhat psychology and media and
even like what is truth it's allrelated.
Yeah, our source said somethingthat that really stuck with me
this idea that life isn't blackand white.
He said being in the military,uh, taught him to see the shades
of gray I can see that and itmade me think of, you know,
(12:21):
cognitive dissonance right whereyou have these conflicting
ideas yeah, yeah, and it's likeyour brain doesn't want to
accept both.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
It can be uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
It can be.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
And it makes us want to, you know, simplify things.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Right.
Put them in neat little boxes.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Like this is good, this is bad, yeah but life's not
like that.
It's messy, full ofcontradictions.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
And maybe that's okay .
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Maybe that's where the freedom is.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
It's like we're all trying to solve this giant
puzzle, but we're using thewrong pieces.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Or trying to force them to fit.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
And that's how you get stuck.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
It is, it is and frustrated.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
And then people start fighting.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Right, right.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
But if we just accept that there are different ways
of looking at things, even onissues that seem simple, it
makes things a lot easier.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Totally, totally, totally.
You know, even when our sourcewas talking about all this
serious stuff.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
He still found a way to to make light of it.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
He seems to have a good sense of humor.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
He does.
He does.
He said.
He tries not to quote pick onpeople who disagree with him.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
OK.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Because he said it's like picking on a five year old.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
I like that.
It's a good perspective.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
It is, it is.
Sometimes you need to justlaugh, you know.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Humor can be a lifesaver.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Especially when things get heavy.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah, it helps you keep things in perspective.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Right, remember, we're all in this together.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
We're all just figuring things out as we go.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Yeah, it's like we're all stumbling around in the
dark Trying to find the lightswitch Exactly stumbling around
in the dark Trying to find thelight switch Exactly, and
instead of getting mad at eachother.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
We can laugh about it .
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, find the humor in it all.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Because in the end, we're all human.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
We are, we are.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
And maybe by laughing together we can start to break
down those walls that divide us.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
And find that common ground.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Exactly.
So, as we wrap up this deepdive, what's the one thing we
want our listeners to take awayfrom all this?
I'd say don't be afraid ofcomplexity okay, challenge
yourself to see things fromdifferent angles.
Be open to new ideas, exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Never stop learning and never lose your sense of
humor.
Exactly, well said, well saidthanks for having me this was
great.
Thanks for joining us on thisdeep dive, everyone.
We'll see you next time.
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