December 9, 2024 • 27 mins
Ever wondered what it takes to keep the creative spark alive amidst the hustle of life? Join us as we chat with Drew Danburry of Icarus Phoenix, who shares his incredible journey from a spontaneous songwriting moment at his brother's house to performing over 800 shows and releasing 400 songs. Drew provides a candid look into his world, revealing how his love for music and songwriting became a vital form of self-expression. He talks about the challenges and joys of forming a band, organizing performances, and nurturing creativity through an organic songwriting process. With personal anecdotes and reflections, Drew sheds light on how interactions with different generations inspire his music, especially the storytelling woven into each album's first track.
As Drew and Icarus Phoenix emerge from a whirlwind Japanese tour, we explore his remarkable achievement of recording 40 songs in just three days. Despite facing mental exhaustion and a guitarist's wrist injury, the band is steadfast in their creative journey, with plans to release singles over the coming year. We also get a glimpse into Drew's personal transition from barbershop owner to his current role at Old Bank Barbers in Baltimore, where he welcomes visitors for both haircuts and engaging conversations. This episode celebrates the resilience and passion that fuels Drew's pursuits, both musical and personal, while building anticipation for what Icarus Phoenix has in store for fans.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
I took a long car ride.
It was worth the time For a dipin the dark tide with your
hands in mine.
I felt the cold in yourfingertips I tasted poison, um
(00:41):
great.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
So episode number, oh je episode.
I don't even know what episodewe are anymore.
I know we're season four and Ido know we're going to have a
great conversation with DrewDanbury from Icarus Phoenix.
Um, drew, where are you comingin from today?
I live in Baltimore, maryland.
Hey, good old Baltimore.
(01:03):
Have you lived there?
Most of your life Is that?
That was that where you grew up.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
No, actually I grew up in California and then spent
a lot of time in Missoula,Montana and Utah and then, a few
years ago, split up with mypartner and moved across the
country to survive.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Well, we're going to talk about survival, but why
don't we rewind a little bit?
And when did music becomereally important to you, in the
sense that it had to be a partof something that you were going
to do in your life?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Probably early to mid-20s.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yep, and what was it?
Do you remember an event or anoccasion or a track you listened
to, or a band where it was justlike I gotta do that.
I'm in on this, I think.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
I was at my brother's house with nothing to do.
He had a guitar and I had apoem and I picked up the guitar
and next to it was like a songbook with like three chords.
So I wrote a song and I thought, oh, this is fun.
I showed my friend who playedguitar and made music and I said
(02:19):
, hey, help me record the songwe he did.
It was super fun.
I was like, oh, let's start aband, let's record, let's write
and record songs.
This is super fun.
And and then, of course, youknow, I think, step by step, it
kind of just became a way tochannel and self-reflect, uh,
(02:45):
the the things that you know youstep through and walk through.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Right, and that was the beginning, right, right.
And do you remember that?
What, what, that first songtheme was about, that first poem
that you wrote um and put tomusic, what, what, what theme it
dabbled in?
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Um, I mean mean yes and no.
It was very much like a palacebrothers palace music, like
bonnie prince billy kind of vibeand the lyrics.
It had some really good lyricsand some really dumb lyrics, but
(03:27):
it was just.
You know, I'm in my early 20s,I'm writing poetry.
There's some good stuff inthere.
I have it somewhere.
It's not great, it's not evengood really, but there's
something there.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Right, right, great.
It's not even good, really, butthere's some, there's something
there, right, right, and was itthat something there that that
kept motivating you to keepgoing?
Or did you know regardless,like?
This is something I need to dois who I am, and you know how I
deal with the things that arehappening in my life.
I pen them down, I put them onpaper.
Like what was that?
A moment also when, when youfound some of the little bright
(04:07):
spots in that first song thatyou put together, no, initially
it was just fun.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Initially it was just I guess I always spent a lot of
time being creative with myfriends.
That's kind of.
I didn't realize it until later, but that is kind of my love
language and I didn't really putput that together till later.
But essentially, initially itwas just fun.
(04:33):
And we started a band and in myhead it was like okay, we're
going to write songs and recordthem and we're going to be
creative together.
And then half the band was likeno, we're playing shows, this
is we're.
We're in a band, we're going tobe, we're going to be cool,
we're going to get chicks.
And and in my head I was justlike, oh, that sounds really
stressful, I don't want to dothat Like well, that's what
(04:55):
we're doing.
So I don't know, like I kind ofguess I guess I just do the
shows and do the booking and theorganizing and the promoting as
a means to kind of be kind tothe things that I've created.
(05:19):
It's almost like those are notthe things that I like.
I don't really there's, I don'tlike the booking and organizing
and the promoting and all thatstuff.
But you spent so much timemaking something you feel is
special and you want to give itthe kind of love and attention
that it deserves.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Well said, man, well said.
And as you were starting to bein a band like you've done over
800 shows right in your career,I read that on what your PR sent
me.
Yeah, say, over 400 songs thatyou put out, I mean I'm sure
(06:03):
you're sitting on another 400that never made it to the, you
know, to the to the tape.
But how?
How was your approach to?
We'll start with writing songsLike what's your process to an
idea to?
I think this has legs to go onto.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Uh, you know think this has legs to go on to.
Uh, you know the record well, Igenerally just record little
ideas, put them on a littledigital recorder and then I go
back to them a few months later.
And so a lot of them a fewmonths later I'm like this sucks
and I delete it.
And then some of them I'm like,oh, I kind of hear something
(06:44):
here, let's just keep playingwith it, and it's a really long,
drawn out process where you're.
You know, we went in and werecorded like 40 songs for this
10 song album, but before thatthere was at least 100 songs,
ideas that I got nicks, um,currently I don't even know how
(07:05):
many songs I'm sitting on.
I'm sitting on like 50 or 60right now that I've just kind of
been gathering like ideas, orlike here's a verse, chorus,
verse, chorus.
Or here's an outro that, um, wecan attach somewhere.
And then you kind of like a lotof those ideas.
They develop over time.
(07:26):
Like there's a song that wewrote as a band called
Colorblind Mormons and then Ithought, oh, how cool would it
be if we started the song notthe way we've been starting it.
But we start with like a bunchof noise not the way we've been
starting it, but we start with abunch of noise.
Then I thought this should bethe opening to the album,
(07:47):
because we just start with chaosand noise.
Then I thought, but before westart that we should have a
little phrase, and then thechaos and noise makes sense.
Because I just wrote an albumabout a breakup.
And what if I had some ideawhere this person wants you back
or this person's asking to getback together?
(08:08):
And then you have all thischaos and noise for like 20
seconds before you go into thefirst track.
So you have all this stuff thatkind of evolves, and initially
they just start as an idea, butthen over time it's like oh, but
this makes sense, and a lot oftimes you're just letting your
subconscious do its work andthen later you reap the benefits
(08:35):
of not getting in the way.
I guess right.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
I love it.
It sounds like a tapestry,almost, where you know they're
all of these colors and piecesthat that are out there that you
have access to, and it's likefinding the pieces that have a
line that connects them alltogether and creates this
beautiful quilt right.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Right, I mean, life is a lot of different
experiences, it's a lot ofdifferent things and it's a lot
of different feelings.
And I had an experience withlike an older gentleman who I
don't know if you've encounteredthis, but I encounter a lot of
older people who are likeaggressively polite,
(09:19):
aggressively forward, and then,because they're older, they just
want to monologue you with they, just like waterboard you with
their words, log you with they,just like waterboard you with
their words.
And so I was trying to come upwith a way to write a song about
(09:40):
that kind of experience andlike kind of process that, and
then also kind of like whitefragility and how you know, like
how could I write a song thatkind of delves into you know
redefining the word white itselfor like something to just kind
of yeah, I don't know and drew.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
what is it, like you kind of mentioned, like there's
something that sparks in it, youknow, know, like when, when
it's like it catches yourattention after you know,
whatever you pulling somethingout that you put down on on your
notes or whatever, Like, canyou describe that, Like what is
the thing that, or what are thethings that that pull you back
(10:27):
into it and say like, yeah, I'dlike this.
I mean, I imagine it's aplethora of different things
that can do that or spark thatsure.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Um, I think the best way to describe it is simply
I've forgotten.
I've forgotten the originalidea, so that when I come back
to it and I listen on my littlerecorder it's kind of like it's
fresh.
I've never heard this beforeand just like when I'm hearing a
(10:59):
new song on the radio or justanywhere, something about it
hooks you.
Something about it like gets inunder your skin.
And not that everything I writegets under my skin skin, but
there's like a level where it'slike, oh, I kind of like this.
Yeah, there's, there's alwaysroom for songs, at least for me.
A lot of my favorite bands likethey'll have one song that just
(11:21):
immediately hooks you and thenthe rest of the album's kind of
like okay, and then the more youlisten to, the more other songs
grow on you.
So you had that one initialhook of a song, but then the
rest of the album justexponentially grows and you get
so much more life out of thatalbum versus another album where
(11:44):
it's like all the songs are sogood and it's almost like this
voracious candy fest.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
That's super well described.
That's that's how I felt aboutthis latest record of yours
exactly that the first trackpulls you in and you got a line
on there.
That's so simple, but it's likeyou know all these little
massages in the brain that itclicks off and I think that that
first song has like thatquintessential, like bombastic,
(12:22):
but not like crazy.
But then the beautiful littlepop, indie pop intentions with
like the line that you play inthat Um and it, it, I would
listen to it.
I was telling you this beforewe hopped on where it.
It became kind of infectious ofjust listening to it and the
(12:44):
rest of the record I was kind oflike forgetting about a bit.
You know cause I just I waslike fixated.
And then the rest of the recordI started listening to more and
it just started to blossom andlike the head of the, the track
list, I mean there was a wholebody under, beautiful body
underneath there that started toemerge.
(13:05):
Um, it's interesting.
Like when you said that, I waslike I mean, that's what you do
with your music.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
I hope.
I mean, I definitely it's hardwhen you make your own music.
It's almost like you can'tenjoy it because you spend so
much time, just like you're justpouring over it so much.
And then you know you finallyfinish it and then you're like,
okay, good God, I can get awayfrom these songs for a little
(13:33):
while.
And then the producer, whoeveris going to send you the songs,
like, hey, what do you think ofthis mix?
Like god, do I have to listento this again?
Like it's um, yeah, it can bereally, really disconcerting or
like disheartening, and it canbe really easy to feel like
you're not doing anythingworthwhile when you hit that
(13:56):
wall.
But I have had thoseexperiences where you go back to
an album years and years laterand you realize, no, this is
exactly what I would want tohear in the world if I hadn't
heard he already heard this likea million times You're making.
(14:16):
You're making the thing thatyou would fall in love with if
it weren't for the fact that youwere having to make it.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Yeah, I mean, that's probably one of the trickier
parts of putting a record out.
Is that the before of like justthe repetition and the
different tweak there and tweakthere and tweak here, and we'll
add that there.
Take that out Like it's justthis onslaught and you're just
like full of it.
You know, like you're just likeovereating almost a meal.
(14:49):
You're just like I can't fitany more in, right, and you've
had a bit of distance now from Ishould have known the things
you never said.
I mean it came out August 16th.
Has there been enough space yetbetween the release and all of
the intensity of building arecord to now kind of looking
(15:12):
back on it?
Has has your perspectivechanged at all, um, towards that
record now?
Speaker 3 (15:19):
honestly, probably the very opposite.
Um, it'll probably take acouple years to be able to
revisit it, but uh, we just gotdone with like a tour a couple
of weeks ago and between playingthe songs every night and then
just like press releases and andjust promoting I think.
(15:44):
I think I put the record on atwork before anyone got there one
day and I was like I can'tlisten to this.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
It's definitely, yeah , it's still too raw you think
like, is it?
Is it?
Is it the, the themes andbecause I know it talks a lot
about your breakup and you knowthe really everything that kind
of falls out of that um, whenthat decision is made and I
understand from from what I readtoo, that you have to move
across the country and separatefrom family and loved ones and
um, difficult times, um is it?
(16:21):
Is it that it's still too rawfor you or is it that, plus just
hearing the song so many times,uh, that you still need that
distance?
Speaker 3 (16:31):
it's just hearing the songs too many times.
Um, emotionally I'm not too raw, like I'm in a good spot.
I just asked my son the otherday, like, hey, isn't it weird?
Like this is our life, like islike, have you, have you gotten
into the flow?
Like, are you okay?
Like, how are you doing?
And he did not.
(16:52):
He got real quiet really fast,and so maybe I I might have, uh,
verbally stubbed my toe in thatregard, but it it was a moment
of like man, it's been threeyears like I fly out and see you
like every month, as much aslike, as much as I can, all the
time, and it's weird that it'sjust so weird because it's now.
(17:16):
It feels normal and not like itdoesn't.
It doesn't feel like justripping my heart out of my chest
every month.
It feels like okay, this is ourlife, this is, this is what
this is, and it's that's theweird thing to me hard times,
hard times and experiences, butI think a lot um can grow out of
(17:41):
that.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Um sure, hard times are particularly reflective
moments for us as humans.
Um, and I always remember thehardest things I've ever gone
through have been some of thegreatest lessons.
But you, you it's never likeokay, this is, you know, it
always kind of tugs a bit and,um, I don't think you ever get
used to it, uh, in the sense ofit being normal.
(18:04):
But we, we survive, right, wewe find ways and push forward,
and I think that what you dowith your music is a little bit
of that catalyst as well, ofkind of coming to terms with the
way life is.
2022, october 24th.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Yeah, no, it's absolutely that and it's very
much addressing like the big,the small, all the stuff.
It's really cathartic and Ireally appreciate it.
I am really grateful I have itas a almost, like a self-therapy
(18:47):
Say that.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, it seems like to you thatthis has been something that
has been a part of your lifefrom your twenties right, like
where, where this need to kindof put things out, get things
out, you know, instead of likepushing it down and down inside
and not not realizing that onceyou do finally start letting
(19:10):
some of it out and maybe notletting it go, but giving it a
bit more space to be that itallows you to move a little bit
100 yeah, I'm a big fan, a bigfan of the process cool and
let's like rewinding it back toyour music a little bit.
(19:32):
Do you find that your music Imean it kind of seems like a
silly question to ask now Like Imean, obviously your music has
been influenced by yourexperiences, and maybe not, you
know, just recent time, but likesince you started recording and
putting music out there, havethings evolved in how you come
(19:55):
about from you know, likecreating the actual music that
you put out in the world yeah, Imean initially, like I said, I
started with a poem and addedchords and a melody to the poem.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
And I think soon thereafter I kind of I think
even by the first time our bandrecorded an album like by the
time we even started recordingactual songs it had reversed
into like, okay, here's mymelody, here's the idea, here's
(20:30):
how it feels, what words can Iput into this melody?
And I think initially, you know, when you're first writing
songs, you're just writing songs.
You're not like to actuallywrite a song is such a big deal.
And so I think over time, youknow, I started writing enough
(20:52):
songs where it's like oh, I, Iwrote like 30.
I didn't write just 12 songsthis time, I wrote 20s, and what
am I gonna do with these eight?
And so you just kind of hold onto them and then they just
aggregate and a lot of times,you know, they just never get
released.
And a lot of times you go backto it like 10 years later and
you're like this isn't bad if Ijust tweak this here and here
(21:14):
and here, you'd have like areally good song.
It was really close, it justwas never quite there.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
So yeah, that's the best I got.
So then, just to kind of bringthings to a close again, thanks
for joining me.
I mean it's been really funtalking with you and reflecting,
yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Thanks for thanks for taking the time.
I mean it's been really funtalking with you and reflecting.
Yeah, thanks for taking thetime.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, no, it's been great.
So what's on tap for the restof your year?
With Icarus Phoenix, youmentioned you came off a tour.
Is there anything more that youcan add to the bones about your
music and what we can lookforward to in the future?
Speaker 3 (21:55):
the bones about your music and what we can look
forward to in the future.
Well, we did record 40 songs,so I am planning on releasing a
single every few weeks for thenext year.
But in terms of like shows andother stuff, there's a lot of.
We're in heavy recoveryMentally.
I'm ready to write a lot ofsongs and I'm putting things
(22:25):
together so we can go in andrecord a new album.
And then our guitarist has hadsome heavy problems with her
wrist and so she's kind of outdown for the count for like six
months.
So we're trying to kind of justnavigate and see what we're
(22:45):
going to do if she's going tosing and not play guitar and if
we bring in another guitaristand just kind of like what that
all looks like.
And but mostly we're justrecovering.
I'm trying to save moneyinstead of spend it, and tour is
fun, but I always lose money.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Um, yeah, cool and if people want to come visit you
work and they come, you have,you have a business correct and
people come in I used to.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
I used to have my own barber shop.
Now I I work at a spot inbaltimore it's uh old bank
barbers, if people ever need ahaircut awesome, uh, a cut in a
chat yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Well, if I'm ever in baltimore, I'm coming to get my
haircut yeah, um yeah,absolutely.
And um, again, great record.
Uh, I'm happy that there's allthese other tracks that came out
of this session, because thissession seemed to really you
guys were sparking like.
It seemed to like 40 songs inthree days.
(23:48):
They're going to have a threadruns, so I'm really looking
forward to.
Well, I'm going to continueenjoying this, but now I can
over-listen to it because I knowthere's more there.
So, yeah, amazing.
(24:08):
Well, I wish you all the bestand good luck in the future with
the music, and if you ever wantto hop back on here and
continue this conversation, I'mtotally into it.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Thank you so much, Chris.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
You asked a question.
I've had an answer.
It was unexpected.
It always is.
Should I have known things?
You never told me.
(25:12):
Should I have known things?
You never said, yeah, I'm nothurt, but you don't want me.
What shakes me up is how youlie and you'll deny it as long
(25:40):
as you're breathing and you'lldeny it and justify it.
Guitar solo.
(26:22):
We are now at the end of ourdrive.
They won't suffice.
I asked for more, but you hadnothing.
I asked for more.
(26:43):
Things just die.
They just die.
I walked away from the city.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
I walked away from the heart.
Walk the way you want.
Walk the way you want.
Walk the way you want.
Walk the way you want.
That's not good enough, butyou're a player who can fly high
(27:31):
.
You're a player who can flyhigh.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
I'm a player who flies to the highest places.
I'll be on your back and fly.
I took a long car ride.
It was worth the time For a dipin the dark tide with your
hands in mine.
I felt the cold in yourfingertips I tasted poison, um
(00:41):
great.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
So episode number, oh je episode.
I don't even know what episodewe are anymore.
I know we're season four and Ido know we're going to have a
great conversation with DrewDanbury from Icarus Phoenix.
Um, drew, where are you comingin from today?
I live in Baltimore, maryland.
Hey, good old Baltimore.
(01:03):
Have you lived there?
Most of your life Is that?
That was that where you grew up.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
No, actually I grew up in California and then spent
a lot of time in Missoula,Montana and Utah and then, a few
years ago, split up with mypartner and moved across the
country to survive.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Well, we're going to talk about survival, but why
don't we rewind a little bit?
And when did music becomereally important to you, in the
sense that it had to be a partof something that you were going
to do in your life?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Probably early to mid-20s.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yep, and what was it?
Do you remember an event or anoccasion or a track you listened
to, or a band where it was justlike I gotta do that.
I'm in on this, I think.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
I was at my brother's house with nothing to do.
He had a guitar and I had apoem and I picked up the guitar
and next to it was like a songbook with like three chords.
So I wrote a song and I thought, oh, this is fun.
I showed my friend who playedguitar and made music and I said
(02:19):
, hey, help me record the songwe he did.
It was super fun.
I was like, oh, let's start aband, let's record, let's write
and record songs.
This is super fun.
And and then, of course, youknow, I think, step by step, it
kind of just became a way tochannel and self-reflect, uh,
(02:45):
the the things that you know youstep through and walk through.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Right, and that was the beginning, right, right.
And do you remember that?
What, what, that first songtheme was about, that first poem
that you wrote um and put tomusic, what, what, what theme it
dabbled in?
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Um, I mean mean yes and no.
It was very much like a palacebrothers palace music, like
bonnie prince billy kind of vibeand the lyrics.
It had some really good lyricsand some really dumb lyrics, but
(03:27):
it was just.
You know, I'm in my early 20s,I'm writing poetry.
There's some good stuff inthere.
I have it somewhere.
It's not great, it's not evengood really, but there's
something there.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Right, right, great.
It's not even good, really, butthere's some, there's something
there, right, right, and was itthat something there that that
kept motivating you to keepgoing?
Or did you know regardless,like?
This is something I need to dois who I am, and you know how I
deal with the things that arehappening in my life.
I pen them down, I put them onpaper.
Like what was that?
A moment also when, when youfound some of the little bright
(04:07):
spots in that first song thatyou put together, no, initially
it was just fun.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Initially it was just I guess I always spent a lot of
time being creative with myfriends.
That's kind of.
I didn't realize it until later, but that is kind of my love
language and I didn't really putput that together till later.
But essentially, initially itwas just fun.
(04:33):
And we started a band and in myhead it was like okay, we're
going to write songs and recordthem and we're going to be
creative together.
And then half the band was likeno, we're playing shows, this
is we're.
We're in a band, we're going tobe, we're going to be cool,
we're going to get chicks.
And and in my head I was justlike, oh, that sounds really
stressful, I don't want to dothat Like well, that's what
(04:55):
we're doing.
So I don't know, like I kind ofguess I guess I just do the
shows and do the booking and theorganizing and the promoting as
a means to kind of be kind tothe things that I've created.
(05:19):
It's almost like those are notthe things that I like.
I don't really there's, I don'tlike the booking and organizing
and the promoting and all thatstuff.
But you spent so much timemaking something you feel is
special and you want to give itthe kind of love and attention
that it deserves.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Well said, man, well said.
And as you were starting to bein a band like you've done over
800 shows right in your career,I read that on what your PR sent
me.
Yeah, say, over 400 songs thatyou put out, I mean I'm sure
(06:03):
you're sitting on another 400that never made it to the, you
know, to the to the tape.
But how?
How was your approach to?
We'll start with writing songsLike what's your process to an
idea to?
I think this has legs to go onto.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Uh, you know think this has legs to go on to.
Uh, you know the record well, Igenerally just record little
ideas, put them on a littledigital recorder and then I go
back to them a few months later.
And so a lot of them a fewmonths later I'm like this sucks
and I delete it.
And then some of them I'm like,oh, I kind of hear something
(06:44):
here, let's just keep playingwith it, and it's a really long,
drawn out process where you're.
You know, we went in and werecorded like 40 songs for this
10 song album, but before thatthere was at least 100 songs,
ideas that I got nicks, um,currently I don't even know how
(07:05):
many songs I'm sitting on.
I'm sitting on like 50 or 60right now that I've just kind of
been gathering like ideas, orlike here's a verse, chorus,
verse, chorus.
Or here's an outro that, um, wecan attach somewhere.
And then you kind of like a lotof those ideas.
They develop over time.
(07:26):
Like there's a song that wewrote as a band called
Colorblind Mormons and then Ithought, oh, how cool would it
be if we started the song notthe way we've been starting it.
But we start with like a bunchof noise not the way we've been
starting it, but we start with abunch of noise.
Then I thought this should bethe opening to the album,
(07:47):
because we just start with chaosand noise.
Then I thought, but before westart that we should have a
little phrase, and then thechaos and noise makes sense.
Because I just wrote an albumabout a breakup.
And what if I had some ideawhere this person wants you back
or this person's asking to getback together?
(08:08):
And then you have all thischaos and noise for like 20
seconds before you go into thefirst track.
So you have all this stuff thatkind of evolves, and initially
they just start as an idea, butthen over time it's like oh, but
this makes sense, and a lot oftimes you're just letting your
subconscious do its work andthen later you reap the benefits
(08:35):
of not getting in the way.
I guess right.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
I love it.
It sounds like a tapestry,almost, where you know they're
all of these colors and piecesthat that are out there that you
have access to, and it's likefinding the pieces that have a
line that connects them alltogether and creates this
beautiful quilt right.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Right, I mean, life is a lot of different
experiences, it's a lot ofdifferent things and it's a lot
of different feelings.
And I had an experience withlike an older gentleman who I
don't know if you've encounteredthis, but I encounter a lot of
older people who are likeaggressively polite,
(09:19):
aggressively forward, and then,because they're older, they just
want to monologue you with they, just like waterboard you with
their words, log you with they,just like waterboard you with
their words.
And so I was trying to come upwith a way to write a song about
(09:40):
that kind of experience andlike kind of process that, and
then also kind of like whitefragility and how you know, like
how could I write a song thatkind of delves into you know
redefining the word white itselfor like something to just kind
of yeah, I don't know and drew.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
what is it, like you kind of mentioned, like there's
something that sparks in it, youknow, know, like when, when
it's like it catches yourattention after you know,
whatever you pulling somethingout that you put down on on your
notes or whatever, Like, canyou describe that, Like what is
the thing that, or what are thethings that that pull you back
(10:27):
into it and say like, yeah, I'dlike this.
I mean, I imagine it's aplethora of different things
that can do that or spark thatsure.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Um, I think the best way to describe it is simply
I've forgotten.
I've forgotten the originalidea, so that when I come back
to it and I listen on my littlerecorder it's kind of like it's
fresh.
I've never heard this beforeand just like when I'm hearing a
(10:59):
new song on the radio or justanywhere, something about it
hooks you.
Something about it like gets inunder your skin.
And not that everything I writegets under my skin skin, but
there's like a level where it'slike, oh, I kind of like this.
Yeah, there's, there's alwaysroom for songs, at least for me.
A lot of my favorite bands likethey'll have one song that just
(11:21):
immediately hooks you and thenthe rest of the album's kind of
like okay, and then the more youlisten to, the more other songs
grow on you.
So you had that one initialhook of a song, but then the
rest of the album justexponentially grows and you get
so much more life out of thatalbum versus another album where
(11:44):
it's like all the songs are sogood and it's almost like this
voracious candy fest.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
That's super well described.
That's that's how I felt aboutthis latest record of yours
exactly that the first trackpulls you in and you got a line
on there.
That's so simple, but it's likeyou know all these little
massages in the brain that itclicks off and I think that that
first song has like thatquintessential, like bombastic,
(12:22):
but not like crazy.
But then the beautiful littlepop, indie pop intentions with
like the line that you play inthat Um and it, it, I would
listen to it.
I was telling you this beforewe hopped on where it.
It became kind of infectious ofjust listening to it and the
(12:44):
rest of the record I was kind oflike forgetting about a bit.
You know cause I just I waslike fixated.
And then the rest of the recordI started listening to more and
it just started to blossom andlike the head of the, the track
list, I mean there was a wholebody under, beautiful body
underneath there that started toemerge.
(13:05):
Um, it's interesting.
Like when you said that, I waslike I mean, that's what you do
with your music.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
I hope.
I mean, I definitely it's hardwhen you make your own music.
It's almost like you can'tenjoy it because you spend so
much time, just like you're justpouring over it so much.
And then you know you finallyfinish it and then you're like,
okay, good God, I can get awayfrom these songs for a little
(13:33):
while.
And then the producer, whoeveris going to send you the songs,
like, hey, what do you think ofthis mix?
Like god, do I have to listento this again?
Like it's um, yeah, it can bereally, really disconcerting or
like disheartening, and it canbe really easy to feel like
you're not doing anythingworthwhile when you hit that
(13:56):
wall.
But I have had thoseexperiences where you go back to
an album years and years laterand you realize, no, this is
exactly what I would want tohear in the world if I hadn't
heard he already heard this likea million times You're making.
(14:16):
You're making the thing thatyou would fall in love with if
it weren't for the fact that youwere having to make it.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Yeah, I mean, that's probably one of the trickier
parts of putting a record out.
Is that the before of like justthe repetition and the
different tweak there and tweakthere and tweak here, and we'll
add that there.
Take that out Like it's justthis onslaught and you're just
like full of it.
You know, like you're just likeovereating almost a meal.
(14:49):
You're just like I can't fitany more in, right, and you've
had a bit of distance now from Ishould have known the things
you never said.
I mean it came out August 16th.
Has there been enough space yetbetween the release and all of
the intensity of building arecord to now kind of looking
(15:12):
back on it?
Has has your perspectivechanged at all, um, towards that
record now?
Speaker 3 (15:19):
honestly, probably the very opposite.
Um, it'll probably take acouple years to be able to
revisit it, but uh, we just gotdone with like a tour a couple
of weeks ago and between playingthe songs every night and then
just like press releases and andjust promoting I think.
(15:44):
I think I put the record on atwork before anyone got there one
day and I was like I can'tlisten to this.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
It's definitely, yeah , it's still too raw you think
like, is it?
Is it?
Is it the, the themes andbecause I know it talks a lot
about your breakup and you knowthe really everything that kind
of falls out of that um, whenthat decision is made and I
understand from from what I readtoo, that you have to move
across the country and separatefrom family and loved ones and
um, difficult times, um is it?
(16:21):
Is it that it's still too rawfor you or is it that, plus just
hearing the song so many times,uh, that you still need that
distance?
Speaker 3 (16:31):
it's just hearing the songs too many times.
Um, emotionally I'm not too raw, like I'm in a good spot.
I just asked my son the otherday, like, hey, isn't it weird?
Like this is our life, like islike, have you, have you gotten
into the flow?
Like, are you okay?
Like, how are you doing?
And he did not.
(16:52):
He got real quiet really fast,and so maybe I I might have, uh,
verbally stubbed my toe in thatregard, but it it was a moment
of like man, it's been threeyears like I fly out and see you
like every month, as much aslike, as much as I can, all the
time, and it's weird that it'sjust so weird because it's now.
(17:16):
It feels normal and not like itdoesn't.
It doesn't feel like justripping my heart out of my chest
every month.
It feels like okay, this is ourlife, this is, this is what
this is, and it's that's theweird thing to me hard times,
hard times and experiences, butI think a lot um can grow out of
(17:41):
that.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Um sure, hard times are particularly reflective
moments for us as humans.
Um, and I always remember thehardest things I've ever gone
through have been some of thegreatest lessons.
But you, you it's never likeokay, this is, you know, it
always kind of tugs a bit and,um, I don't think you ever get
used to it, uh, in the sense ofit being normal.
(18:04):
But we, we survive, right, wewe find ways and push forward,
and I think that what you dowith your music is a little bit
of that catalyst as well, ofkind of coming to terms with the
way life is.
2022, october 24th.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Yeah, no, it's absolutely that and it's very
much addressing like the big,the small, all the stuff.
It's really cathartic and Ireally appreciate it.
I am really grateful I have itas a almost, like a self-therapy
(18:47):
Say that.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, it seems like to you thatthis has been something that
has been a part of your lifefrom your twenties right, like
where, where this need to kindof put things out, get things
out, you know, instead of likepushing it down and down inside
and not not realizing that onceyou do finally start letting
(19:10):
some of it out and maybe notletting it go, but giving it a
bit more space to be that itallows you to move a little bit
100 yeah, I'm a big fan, a bigfan of the process cool and
let's like rewinding it back toyour music a little bit.
(19:32):
Do you find that your music Imean it kind of seems like a
silly question to ask now Like Imean, obviously your music has
been influenced by yourexperiences, and maybe not, you
know, just recent time, but likesince you started recording and
putting music out there, havethings evolved in how you come
(19:55):
about from you know, likecreating the actual music that
you put out in the world yeah, Imean initially, like I said, I
started with a poem and addedchords and a melody to the poem.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
And I think soon thereafter I kind of I think
even by the first time our bandrecorded an album like by the
time we even started recordingactual songs it had reversed
into like, okay, here's mymelody, here's the idea, here's
(20:30):
how it feels, what words can Iput into this melody?
And I think initially, you know, when you're first writing
songs, you're just writing songs.
You're not like to actuallywrite a song is such a big deal.
And so I think over time, youknow, I started writing enough
(20:52):
songs where it's like oh, I, Iwrote like 30.
I didn't write just 12 songsthis time, I wrote 20s, and what
am I gonna do with these eight?
And so you just kind of hold onto them and then they just
aggregate and a lot of times,you know, they just never get
released.
And a lot of times you go backto it like 10 years later and
you're like this isn't bad if Ijust tweak this here and here
(21:14):
and here, you'd have like areally good song.
It was really close, it justwas never quite there.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
So yeah, that's the best I got.
So then, just to kind of bringthings to a close again, thanks
for joining me.
I mean it's been really funtalking with you and reflecting,
yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Thanks for thanks for taking the time.
I mean it's been really funtalking with you and reflecting.
Yeah, thanks for taking thetime.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, no, it's been great.
So what's on tap for the restof your year?
With Icarus Phoenix, youmentioned you came off a tour.
Is there anything more that youcan add to the bones about your
music and what we can lookforward to in the future?
Speaker 3 (21:55):
the bones about your music and what we can look
forward to in the future.
Well, we did record 40 songs,so I am planning on releasing a
single every few weeks for thenext year.
But in terms of like shows andother stuff, there's a lot of.
We're in heavy recoveryMentally.
I'm ready to write a lot ofsongs and I'm putting things
(22:25):
together so we can go in andrecord a new album.
And then our guitarist has hadsome heavy problems with her
wrist and so she's kind of outdown for the count for like six
months.
So we're trying to kind of justnavigate and see what we're
(22:45):
going to do if she's going tosing and not play guitar and if
we bring in another guitaristand just kind of like what that
all looks like.
And but mostly we're justrecovering.
I'm trying to save moneyinstead of spend it, and tour is
fun, but I always lose money.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Um, yeah, cool and if people want to come visit you
work and they come, you have,you have a business correct and
people come in I used to.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
I used to have my own barber shop.
Now I I work at a spot inbaltimore it's uh old bank
barbers, if people ever need ahaircut awesome, uh, a cut in a
chat yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Well, if I'm ever in baltimore, I'm coming to get my
haircut yeah, um yeah,absolutely.
And um, again, great record.
Uh, I'm happy that there's allthese other tracks that came out
of this session, because thissession seemed to really you
guys were sparking like.
It seemed to like 40 songs inthree days.
(23:48):
They're going to have a threadruns, so I'm really looking
forward to.
Well, I'm going to continueenjoying this, but now I can
over-listen to it because I knowthere's more there.
So, yeah, amazing.
(24:08):
Well, I wish you all the bestand good luck in the future with
the music, and if you ever wantto hop back on here and
continue this conversation, I'mtotally into it.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Thank you so much, Chris.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
You asked a question.
I've had an answer.
It was unexpected.
It always is.
Should I have known things?
You never told me.
(25:12):
Should I have known things?
You never said, yeah, I'm nothurt, but you don't want me.
What shakes me up is how youlie and you'll deny it as long
(25:40):
as you're breathing and you'lldeny it and justify it.
Guitar solo.
(26:22):
We are now at the end of ourdrive.
They won't suffice.
I asked for more, but you hadnothing.
I asked for more.
(26:43):
Things just die.
They just die.
I walked away from the city.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
I walked away from the heart.
Walk the way you want.
Walk the way you want.
Walk the way you want.
Walk the way you want.
That's not good enough, butyou're a player who can fly high
(27:31):
.
You're a player who can flyhigh.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
I'm a player who flies to the highest places.
I'll be on your back and fly.
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