December 11, 2024 • 32 mins
Eden Sierotnik from COOL HEAT transports us into the beating heart of Chicago's music scene. Born amidst the vibrant streets of Chicago, Eden's journey from high school bands to being awestruck by iconic venues like the Aragon Ballroom is nothing short of captivating. Through Eden's eyes, listeners gain a unique perspective on how Chicago's rich musical history, with its roots in genres like post-punk and shoegaze, continues to thrive. Despite the challenges that have arisen post-pandemic, including the decline of DIY venues, Chicago's music festivals and the energy they generate keep the city's spirit alive, offering a fertile ground for both new and established artists.
Dive into the creative processes that shape Eden's music-making world. With a keen focus on balancing consistency and the need to recharge creatively, Eden shares insights into how platforms like Spotify can play a role in an artist's journey to success. As the conversation flows, we uncover Eden's evolution from crafting intricate studio recordings to developing a more direct sound he fondly calls "dream punk." The transition is inspired by the electric energy of live performances, and Eden offers us a fascinating glimpse into how these studio creations metamorphose on stage to offer an immersive, organic experience for audiences.
Eden opens up about the complexities of songwriting and collaboration, especially highlighted in tracks like “Change" on Abandoned. His meticulous approach to vocal production, from initial whispers to confident performance, reveals a journey of growth and introspection. With choir classes boosting his confidence, Eden has embraced the transformative power of vocal processors for live shows, creating a dynamic and engaging atmosphere. The exploration doesn't stop there; Eden discusses the potential of revisiting older tracks, keeping his music fresh and resonant for fans, ensuring every live performance is as exhilarating as the last.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I'm lost in your eyes , never last going nicely.
As we go through season four,we've had some such amazing
artists and today, no exception.
I've eaten from Cool Capital,cool yeah, the Apple's important
.
And Eden, you're coming in fromChicago area.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
That's correct, yeah, yeah yeah, Chicago Illinois.
Yep, yep, right on.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
And have you lived there?
Most of your life is that whereyou're yeah, I, I.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I'm living across the street from a hospital, so
excuse the ambulance noises, butI was born at that hospital
across the street.
Wow, yeah, amazing.
Yeah, I grew up in a suburb fora little bit and then uh came
back here.
I've been here.
I mean, yeah, I, I, I've beenhere.
I mean, yeah, I, I, I.
I've been in in the Chicagolandarea my whole life.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
So amazing, amazing, and what, what, like.
What's the music scene inChicago?
Like, like, what.
What's it like being an artistin Chicago?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Uh, awesome it's, it's super inspirational.
I mean, it's like the.
So I started playing music inhigh school and I was like I
lived out in the suburbs and Iwas like I think we did like
some crappy battle, the bandscompetition and like chicago to
like, oh, we can play in chicagoand I I just remember actually
going to see shows for like real.
Then when I got into collegeand I was like, oh, this is such
a cool place to like make musicand it just the amount of like
(01:57):
really cool bands and sceneshere and stuff like that.
There's been like this awesomeexplosion of like sort of
post-punky shoegazy music that'shappening just in general and
chicago has like it's, uh, it'suh, you know growth right there
and like, yeah, there's plentyof people rolling with it, yeah,
yeah exactly and just like it'salways had cool stuff, like I
(02:18):
think I remember when garagerock was like breaking out like
crazy, it was also like had aton of crazy bands like that.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
So I don't know right , it's got a rich history.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
It's always kind of been a mecca for like yeah, yeah
, yeah new genres and tryingyeah, yeah, especially like
pre-pandemic, it was definitelylike more so.
Like I think there was a lot ofdiy venues and I think that was
sort of a staple of the city aswell.
There's a little less of themnow, but that's like.
You know, I think of any reallycool DIY scene when you have,
like such a large city ofChicago and you get people like
(02:46):
I don't know coming together,just means there's a lot of
stuff going on.
There's some like amazingvenues too that we play out here
and they you know a lot of cooltouring artists pass through
here, which I think also letsthe music scene being really
cool.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
So yeah, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely.
It brings, like the spirit ofmusic into the city.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah.
Oh yeah, no, I mean, especiallywhen it's, like you know,
festival season, it's like theafter show is crazy.
It's like you know there's nota venue in Chicago that doesn't
have some sort of after showgoing on, which I think is
indicative of just like the widerange of genres of music and
stuff.
It's you know, it's a massivecity.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Amazing, amazing.
So where does it start?
For you, like, where did musicstart?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
like, if you, had to, like write your memoirs.
You know you're, oh right, yeah, like a rocking chair, yeah,
yeah uh.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Where's the point where music uh started to like
spark for you?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
uh, probably.
Uh, I mean, I started writingmusic like in high school.
I saw, I remember, just like ona whim, I went with my buddy to
go see interpol and I hadn'treally known where it was so
much, and it was on their annextour.
So it was actually one of thefirst shows I saw in chicago.
That like I really wanted to gosee and it was at aragon
ballroom and I just I'll neverforget it was like I bought a
bass.
(03:59):
Like three days later the firstsystem started playing.
I was like I was looking at allthe tabs of like I would look at
like interpol, the strokesblock party, because that's like
what I was listening to at thattime.
So I just like learn all thosetabs.
And I was like, oh, I want towrite music like this.
So I just like have always sortof done it.
And then, uh, I'd say, coolheat's just been like this like
long.
You know, I've always had likesolo demos.
(04:19):
I had a band previously here.
But like I always had thesedemos that I had, that I was
just like man, I just have likesuch a vision for this song.
But like, let's just like bringit to the band space and like
see what happens, but then, withcool heat, eventually it was
2019.
I was just like I really wantto just like, I don't know, give
a project a go, or like I don'tcare if I play this live.
I just want to like executethese ideas and like see how it
(04:41):
sounds and like, even if it's anonline only thing, it just is
what it is.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it just grewit.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Just that's amazing.
Well, and and you're you'revery right to say I mean, I've
I've been perusing your bandcamppage um, for quite some time
now actually, and you've gotsome great singles on there,
some like I mean, and you tendto make your records relatively
small but punchy right like theygive you a like a haymaker in
(05:08):
like 30, absolutely, yeah,that's a really good way to put
it.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
I love like this, like I don't remember where I I
can't remember which one it was,but there's, like you know,
there's like so many of themthat I like.
But there was this like one inparticular band that they had
like this like eight or ninesong punchy album and it was
like just under 30 minutes andit just felt like such, just
like uh, encapsulation of justlike this like week where they
took and they just like hadthese like sick ideas and they
(05:31):
wrote them out.
And that's kind of how I wantto approach making albums.
Like I just kind of like shuteverything out and I just have
like this, like, oh, let me justdemo out like nine of these
things as fast as I can rightnow, just to like catch that
sort of vibe, and then, like Iusually just know at some point
I'm like okay, I gotta stop now.
And then, yeah, I think it'sjust, it's also like a easy way
for me to work.
You know, I uh, it's a vacuumdoing a solo artist thing, you
(05:53):
know, so it's like sure for sureit's easier for me to like
Speaker 1 (05:56):
slice them when do you open the doors up to other
artists that might come andcollaborate with you in cool
heat is?
Does that happen or do you tendto keep this as a personal kind
of like these?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
are your songs.
You track them all I think well, overall it's personal I have
done some like where I, where Ifeature some other artists, like
on this recent album, I had, uh, an artist here in chicago
called flower babe um we hadjust been like you know, getting
friendly and just talkingonline and stuff like that.
We played a couple showstogether and then, yeah, I was,
I was like, oh, actually it'd bereally cool if you sang on one
(06:27):
of my songs.
So like that's like the extentof it will go.
But in terms of like trackingand stuff like my whole like
idea behind the project, whichare probably never straight from
, is that I just like, I'm in,like you know, I'm here, I'm,
I'm the surgeon, right?
Speaker 1 (06:40):
So this is your bubble and you're you're the
mastermind behind it.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
All right right, right and it's like, although
it's like a double-edged swordof like I you know I say the
vacuum earlier of like beinglike a negative kind of thing,
it's also the like, the nicething about it is that it is
just me and I'm just like, here,left to like execute whatever I
have that like, you know,whatever vision I have in my
head.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
So amazing, amazing and like how does a cool heat
song come to life?
Um, um, when do you, when doyou start to?
You know, something in the backof your head starts to click
thing.
Hmm, here's something, I got it.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Something's coming here Like when you get to that
phase it almost always startsthe same way.
I usually just like well, likeyou know, I work with drum
machines a lot in terms ofrecording Um, so I'll usually
just layer out some, like youknow, do some beat, and I'll
just layer it out for like fourminutes and then I just like
will create some sort of ambientnoise over it with my synth of
the guitar.
More often than not, those twofirst things I usually don't
(07:32):
keep.
I usually end up like kind ofredoing everything after the
fact and then, like, the biggeststep is once I have that like
base of like this, because, likea lot of like cool heat songs,
like as you probably listen to,are very like washed out, have a
lot of airy and like texturalstuff going on.
So once I kind of lay that liketextural sort of like foundation
, um, then I like go for thebass and then that's kind of
where I really start to likewrite the song and for it to
(07:54):
come together.
And then, uh, the last thingI'll do is vocals, because I, I,
I kind of hate them sometimes.
So, uh, um, but then, like themost fun I have is when I'm
doing that bass guitar.
So like, like, once I get therhythm down like I love locking
in, like I.
I think a key component of alot of cool heat songs is like
the locked in nature of like thebass and drums I know they have
(08:14):
like they're very just, likethat's like part of the haymaker
you're describing earlier isjust like.
That's like a like the drivingforce behind the music.
So once I've like fine-t that,then I just like it's really fun
Cause I just get to do all thelike really crazy melodic stuff.
You know I love a lot of likeethereal guitar work and then I
just sort of combine it alluntil it starts to sound like.
You know, I've done it for solong now in a way of like
(08:36):
writing music that I kind ofjust like I like.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I'll know, oh, that's .
That's sounding like a coolheat song.
Now, right, right, do you?
Does inspiration come like?
Do you have to sit down, or canyou be like driving home from
work and it's like?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
it's mostly what it's all about, I'm always like,
yeah, I'm always like hummingstuff to myself.
I never, like you know, notmuch of like a voice memo person
, but like I'm always just likehumming stuff or, like you know,
like I'm also just inspired bya lot of stuff I'm listening to.
So, so I'm sure just some songI've been really digging, I'll
like just kind of come up withsome beat in my head.
That's like probably like somestuff I've been listening to
recently, you know, just anamalgamation of stuff that I'm
(09:11):
always inspired by.
And, yeah, just a lot of itcomes from my head and I'm just
like, oh man, I'm really feelingthe that translation from like
what I heard in my head to like,oh, here's an analog drum
machine and just a di bass Ilike that idea too that you're
kind of use like the drummachine and like as a click
(09:34):
track kind of.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
You know like it's just kind of like is the bones
of it, but then it gets replacedwith all this meat and skin and
totally that's my track.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
I like just do not play the click tracks at all, so
like, I just like a little like, even if it just is like a, you
know what I mean.
Like I like, I just need likesome sort of like thing to give
me like, because it gives melike a little bit of feel,
whereas, like, like you know, II have no problem playing along,
no click, but it just is like,yeah, I like to sort of have an
idea of like, oh, what if I madea song?
It's going to be like this sortof you know, quick, two and a
(10:02):
half minute rocker that's goingto sound like this you know,
let's go like that.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
That's great, that's great and like your first record
anyway, on low tide, on on bandcamp.
I mean that's 2019, right?
Um, yeah, yeah.
And I mean you've been veryconsistent with, with your
releases.
Um, there's never much gapbetween.
Do you ever run into asituation where you're just kind
(10:26):
of blank, like it doesn't seemso from what you release, like
you always seem to be inspired,um, with something yeah, I mean,
every time I think that I havehit like a writer's block, I
just I just get, yeah, just likesomething will click and I'll
stop.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
I like I, I really thought I hit one when I was
doing the first album.
Nowhere like the first fulllength.
Um, when I was, like, you know,halfway through the tracking of
that, I was like, oh shit, Ithink I might actually be
stumbling into like a realhonest writer's book.
I never had before.
It was like weird, because Ijust generally always been like
like, oh, I got an idea, let'sjust do it.
Now I've got like I'm, I'm justwriting recording, but yeah, I
(11:03):
just took like it literally wasjust like two days off from just
doing nothing.
I think it just is like, uh,whenever I feel like I might be
getting it, it just, it justneeds a little bit disconnect.
You know I always takeintentional times off to to like
keep myself fresh, like afterI've done tracking everything.
I don't go straight into mixingit.
You know, I give myself like aweek or two off to like just
like not even listen to it atall.
You know, even if I'm like,even if I'm like obsessively
(11:26):
want to, I'll just be like Ineed to listen to some fresh
ears, because just even thatlike small time off is like huge
um and uh.
I just like being consistentalso, I think, with the releases
, because I feel like it just Idon't know, it's like a, if you
like actually follow along.
It's just nice to kind ofexpect to know that, like this
artist is going to be maybereleasing music consistent, like
on a consistent basis.
I don't know, it's just kind ofcool to me.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
So no, I do.
I love that too.
I mean, it's similar to thispodcast thing I do.
Is that that consistency ofputting something out every week
?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
right, right, it's good for like the algorithm too,
you know like not that I liketoo much but like, like Spotify
definitely likes when yourelease music on a consistent
basis.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Absolutely, absolutely.
How do you find that cool heathas evolved over time?
Like, has your approach towriting songs or recording songs
shifted over time?
Have you learned like cool tipsor shortcuts, or like, how has
the music kind of liketransformed itself as as you
(12:27):
grow older as a musician and getmore experience under your belt
?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
that's a good question.
Um, I'd say it has changedslightly in the sense of before
I was ever like, when I wasdoing the first stuff, it was
maybe about, like, I think maybetwo years before I'd started
actually like legitimatelyplaying shows as a live band.
So I've been recording musicfor a while and I found that,
like, especially with the latestrecord, abandon, um, I found
myself writing parts that weremore a little retrofitted for,
(12:52):
like, the people that play mylive band, a little bit more so
in terms of like, um, wherebefore, like on Nowhere, the
first album, I was like I don'tcare if I I never play any of
these songs live, like, so I'mgonna make them as like dense
and like intricate as possible,whereas this one, I was like I
don't care if I never play anyof these songs live, so I'm
going to make them as dense andintricate as possible, whereas
this one, I would kind ofsimplify certain things to be
like oh well.
And also there's this thingabout the live performance band
(13:15):
aspect.
Um, that I think is really coolwhere, like, there's a lot more
dreaminess and like softnessthat comes through in the
recordings, but there's still alot of dreaminess, but in live
band.
It's like a way more punchy andlike almost like.
I heard somebody describe it asdream punk one time.
I thought that was a good wayto describe it.
So it's like I feel like thestudio version is a little more
dream pop and like live a littlemore dream punk.
(13:36):
So I wanted to make like solately the music I've been
making has been a little morejust inspired by like the energy
.
I think that like we have onstage so like songs like real
life change and stuff like thatthat have like way more like
that post-punk, like high energy, sort of like kind of
thrashiness, almost aredefinitely informed by, like you
know, my evolution of likeplaying as a live band, um,
(13:58):
which I think is like a coolthing because it's like totally
organic.
I didn't really think aboutthat until like this album that
I did now, where I like kind ofmade a conscious effort to like
put that front like kind of yeah, it's cool you're saying that,
because I'm hearing that inabandon too, like it does have a
little bit more of in your face, um, yeah, yeah, which is the
intention.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
You could, yeah, like , and you can deliver it to
another artist saying thestructure is a little bit more
concrete or or easily, moreeasily described than yeah, just
make it airy right, right,right, because it's so easy just
to be like, oh yeah, just likesome do some airy bullshit in
the synth.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
You know, like this is way more of like.
You know, like synth wise,especially in this one it was
like, um, you know, on nowheremy first album.
I would tend to maybe just dolike an insane amount of just
like.
I don't care how many layers ofsynth there are, whereas like a
handful of songs on abandoned,we're just like no, I'm doing
two synth tracks and like thisis like.
(14:56):
You know, I'm gonna make itmore like that, which is why
some of the songs I think havethat sort of maybe like you know
, I mean more punchiness to them, because they're not like
focused on, like living in thiscloud, you know, even though
they are still very airy,reverb-y, but they're just not
as like I don't know, stuck inthat like my area yeah, yeah, no
, it's one of the things Iappreciate about your writing
and your music is that, thevastness to it almost, but
(15:20):
controlled vastness at times,like bringing us on this like,
yeah, really cool, trip.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Um, what is what is your?
Your live setup?
Like, like, how do you performthese songs live?
Like cause I imagine, likeyou're a DIY artist, like you're
doing most of this trackingyourself how does that translate
from from the record to a liveperformance?
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Um, it's, it's, it's awesome.
Honestly, I I've been reallypining to do some sort of like
live recording or some sort ofthing I'd love to do like a live
video session or something,cause I think it's really like
it's one of the things whenpeople see us it's definitely a
thing that they know, like Iwasn't expecting it to be so,
like you know in your face orwhatever like that, because it's
like I'd say, just generallyit's louder because there's five
(16:03):
like so you're going from likea bedroom artist to like five
musicians on stage.
So we got like two guitars andlike, whereas the guitars sit
maybe a little like sometimesunderneath in some of the songs
not all the songs but whereasthey're so also complemented
with the synth.
You know, when I mix I alwayslike you know I I like I love
things to be balanced, sothere's never anything that's
like too high up, but when it'slive it just is, especially in
(16:24):
smaller clubs, like you know,you're not really worried that
much about balance in that inthat same sense.
So, like translation to it, liveis just that you know, first
there's like a full live drumkit so that you got a little
more fullness there and then,like the synths go a little less
like you know.
You know they're still reallyairy in that, but when they mix
with guitars it kind of turnsinto this, like it feels like a
proper like sort of shoegaze,sort of like, you know, sound at
(16:46):
that point like more noisy butlike again in a controlled way,
like you're saying that likecontrolled sort of layered noise
, um, but yeah, it's, it's, it'sreally cool.
It's like I, like I I love thedynamics so much that I don't
want anything to change about it.
You know, it's like I lovehaving this, like this like
thing I can record and like makeit sound like in these like
(17:06):
sort of concise indie pop songsthat I can like turn into
something more than just indiepop songs and then, like live,
they turn into, like this, youknow, really energetic, sort of
like rock rock show, essentially.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
So yeah, yeah, amazing.
Have your live shows informedyour home recording Like maybe a
little.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Yeah, I mean a little bit, definitely.
I mean it's like so there's asong change on abandoned, which
was like one of my favorites offof it, and that one was
basically written from like a.
I was like I want to write asong, it's like going to just
sound amazing in the set, and Iwas like one of my favorites off
of it, and that one wasbasically written from like uh,
I was like I want to write asong, it's like gonna just sound
amazing in the set and I waslike it's like probably one of
my like even heavier songs onthat it's got like more of like
a like sort of like rockybreakdown at the end and like,
(17:47):
yeah, that was basicallyinformed by just like the last
few years of playing live andbeing like oh man, it'd be cool
if I just like wrote a song.
That was like a song I designedto be in the set.
You know what I mean and that'scool yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
And over, like do you think of the collaborations
down your road?
Like I know that you've beendoing quite a bit of this on
your own, but is there that kindof live idea of I guess I'm
trying to get at, like when youdeliver a song to the musicians
that are then going to play itwith you?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
How much instruction and how much freedom are you
navigate or allow them tonavigate when they're, when you
bring the song?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Not, not much, not much.
I definitely want like the like, especially when it comes to
drums and bass, as as, as, asthey'd probably say, I'm, um,
I'm quite picky about it.
Um, you know, I just, uh, Ithink that I'm a little more
lenient when it comes to the, uh, the synth stuff, uh, because,
(18:50):
like I'm more so, just, you know, I'll show him the.
You know, I, I show them allthe parts you know, like, they
know what the parts is, theylearn the parts, they're awesome
at learning the parts you know,and they really knock it out of
the park like they likecompletely bring these
performances to life.
It's like, you know, withoutthem, if I was just playing
alone to some stuff, it just itwould like the energy would be
just so lost.
So, like you know, I'm forevergrateful for that.
But I'm also definitely like astickler when it comes to.
(19:12):
You know, I'm like, let's justlike, because, like, my idea is
that if we just like do whatwe're supposed to do with, these
parts are, then the rest justtakes care of itself by virtue
of the fact that there's five ofus playing this stuff live, as
opposed to me recording it pieceby piece, like we don't need to
put anything else more intothat.
I'm okay with, like, obviously,little things of like.
You know this is a drum machine, so like, play it like you're a
(19:33):
drummer, you know what I meanLike that sort of stuff like
that sort of stuff.
You know I'm not expecting likerobotic stuff maybe I am, I
don't know honestly, otherwise,so yeah, I mean I try not to be
too much of a hard ass, but likeI'm also just like you know, I
get so like attached to thesongs when I record them that I
just sure, like you know, Ithink I, I think I just hear it
differently than they do.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
So it's like right, right and in your recording
process, like, what do youcontrol the most of all the
tracking?
Like, is it more of theinstrumentation or is it your
every single?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
aspect.
Yeah, no, yeah, there's not asingle aspect about me.
Yeah, so, like everything Irecord myself, so it's all done.
It's all done here in myapartment.
Um, there's, there's nothing,except for maybe the few
features that I've done withsome people who've, like you
know, done some vocals on mything or done something else
else, like, yeah, I record everylittle instrument, so all the
guitars, bass and drums andsynth work, it's all.
(20:27):
It's all stuff that I do soright, right.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
And when it comes to tracking too, like how would it,
how long would it take you fromrecording those first quick
tracks to actually having thesong?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
finished.
Um, honestly, it feels likelike you.
So you're saying from like alike from just start to finish,
essentially like fully finished.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Yeah yeah, the recording process itself yeah,
yeah, I mean like.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
So the tracking instrumentation part does not
take nearly that long, but ittakes a long to do vocals.
I mean it's probably like agood, like you know, I don't
know as early as like three days, probably like a week or so,
before I'm actually finished.
Like I'm trying to average outthe time I spend because, like,
I do all the tracking for everyindividual song, so, like on,
like on abandon, I had ninetracks done without any vocals,
(21:11):
without any real inclination ofwhat the vocals are going to be.
I mean, obviously I start tosort of hum things along as I'm
writing and recording and thenthat's when I take probably the
most amount of time.
It's like the tracking takespretty fast because, like, I
just find that I'm prettycomfortable and fast with it,
but like writing lyrics anddoing melodies and stuff, I'm
just a lot more.
Yeah, it just takes me longer.
So it's like that period takinga couple months where, as
(21:33):
opposed to, like I could trackall the songs you know in like a
couple weeks easy, likeprobably less than that Cool.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
And what is it about the, the vocals, that that that
require more attention for you?
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Uh, I think that I'm just, um, I'm it's, it's like so
I used to write a lot of musicbefore I started like ever
really singing, so I was neverreally that comfortable with it.
So it was like always kind ofwas like lagging behind my
instrumentation stuff when I wasyounger and I took a choir
class and started singing morein my other band when I was like
in college and that made mefeel a lot better about it.
I think I just have like a veryspecific I don't know.
(22:09):
I feel like I'm just like waymore hypercritical of that or
maybe less confident of itsometimes.
So I find that I have to listento it way more as if, like you
know, I just like, yeah, likeI'm always worried about maybe
like something sounds a littleflat or if I can't really tell,
whereas, like with the guitar, Ican always just tell really
easily if I made a mistake.
I'm like that, whereas likevocals, I'm always, like you
(22:37):
know, vocals are the thing thatI'm usually most terrified of
doing.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
So I'm always like you know, I'm like nine songs in
.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
I'm like man, I just like ruin all nine of these
songs, your vocals, like yeah,oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I always record.
Uh, I like I always record onedry and I'll usually leave that
one in, because that's usuallythe like, the take that I feel
great about.
And then I'll sort of dodifferent takes at like
different sort of, like you know, I I'll do lower pitches, I'll
do something that's more breathy, and then I'll add all my
reverb and stuff like that.
So usually I have like three,four, even five of like the same
(23:02):
vocal part layered on there.
And I don't really do that muchwith the instruments, unless I'm
getting like crazy on some sortof guitar part or something
like that.
But vocals I do a lot oflayering and I like to sort of,
like you know, stagger them alittle bit so they have that
sort of fullness.
You know what I mean, um, butyeah, it's, it's just the thing
that takes me longest and Idon't.
I don't know if I need to takeas long as I do, but I just I
(23:23):
don't know.
I've done two albums this wayand I feel pretty happy with my
process.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
For you know, yeah, small little tweaks and whatnot
yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, I agreewith you, though your vocals
have become much more, um,because pre, like older songs,
you kind of whitewash them alittle bit.
Eh, because, yes, I understand,it's your voice.
You can't separate it from yourbody like an instrument.
(23:48):
You know, it's you right, right.
So that intimidation, for sureI understand that.
Um, you know, I remember beingon stage sometimes and like I
don't want to sing these songs,I'll play them.
Oh, yeah, no.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
And then someone comes up to me afterwards like,
yeah, I couldn't understand likewhat you're saying, because
you're just like whispering thewhole time and I was like yeah
well, that's like the big thingfor me is that, like you know, I
spent a lot of the times likerecording this stuff.
It's like so I was saying thelive band gets like a lot louder
live but like what doesn'tnecessarily translate is like
doing the vocals how I recordthem here really isn't feasible
to do it live because, like youcan't you know you turn the mic
(24:22):
up.
Be like you know, if I'mwhispering the vocals it's going
to feedback all time.
So I finally invested in like areally nice vocal processor to
like get like really good reverband like chorus on there and
that's been like the last likeuh, maybe six months of shows
I've used this and it's beenlike a huge game changer and
that's like changed.
But yeah, that's a good point.
I mean because, yeah, and likemy very early stuff when I was
(24:43):
less confident, I definitelywould like yeah, wash, like even
more washed out, sort of tomake it as just another
instrument, whereas, like thelast, the last maybe couple
years of releases now have beenmore about like especially this
latest album.
I don't think I've ever hadsome up front, absolutely up
front totally.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
I I like it sounds great to you and I'll tell you
say that like it sounds reallygood.
I think that all of thisattention to detail has has
trained your voice and and itfeels like you've come to a
stage now where you feelcomfortable with it.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah, this is the most comfortable I felt with
doing it.
I was going to say earlier.
It's also, like you know, Itake longer, but I will say,
with abandon, this was thequickest that I have done in
terms of tracking vocals andfeeling really good about them,
and it was.
I think that also translates towhy, when I was mixing them, I
felt very confident to like putthem up front.
You know more.
So, yeah, absolutely how itshould be, cause, like you know,
(25:36):
I'll always go back and listento my earlier stuff and be like
well, it's just interesting tohear how the things have sort of
changed a little bit, you know.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Have you ever thought of likegoing back to some of those old
tracks and like inspiring newlife into them, or oh absolutely
there's actually one that weplay live.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Now it's called always on time.
It's like the second song thatI wrote, maybe third it I think
it was another 2019 release.
This is when I was just doingsingles, like I would just play
my casio drum machine and justlet it play.
There's no real likemanipulation or anything and
then I just played over it and Iwas like, you know, the song
took me like a day to make and Iwas like and that was one of
(26:13):
the things that inspired me tokeep making it because it's kind
of like I think it's onsoundcloud or something.
It sort of like blew up oryoutube I forget what it was,
but we play it now because oneof my guitarists is always like
you gotta add this song to theset, you gotta do it and it's
awesome.
Now it really sounds great inthe set and I sort of thought
about going back and, uh, youknow, maybe just like
re-releasing as a single,because it's like, oh, it's a
2019 song, like who's reallygonna care?
(26:35):
Music anyways.
So it's like yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
I mean, I was talking to an artist recently and he's
about he's going back to hisolder songs, like he's recorded
so many freaking songs and he'slike put these new, this new air
into them and it's just, yeah,it brings them back to life, you
know, into the artist I used todo, andrew bird.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
He used to do a lot to his songs.
Yeah, he would always, I feellike he had like three
renditions of like a fewdifferent songs, um, and I
always thought that was cool.
Um.
So it's like, yeah, there'sactually, uh, on my first album
uh nowhere there's a song calledslow burn which was released as
a single before.
It was like my very first one.
I took, took it down and thenlike I released some of like
some other ones and I like hadjust like rerecord some bass and
(27:16):
I think I had like anothervocal take to make it sound a
little fresher and like give ita little remix to match the rest
of the song, and it wasactually like one of like my
most popular songs on the album.
So I was like really happy todo that, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Awesome, Awesome stuff, man.
Well, Well, as we kind of cometo a close here, it's really
cool to finally.
I mean, you audience don't know, but Eden and I we've been
playing like tennis with thispodcast for a while.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
But we finally got it here, so it's really been a
pleasure to talk with you.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
My last question is like what's, what's, what's
coming down the pipe here in2024, 2025 that you could tell
us about with your music?
Speaker 2 (27:57):
in 2024, 2025 that you could tell us about with
your music?
Uh, hopefully a lot um I uh.
So I released this album,abandoned with my label spirit
goth and um, for the first timewe're doing thank you.
For the first time I'm doingvinyl, so, uh, that's in
production I believe, or aboutto be in production.
So I got all like the art andall that stuff sorted.
So that's been like definitelya thing I've always wanted to do
, um, but I never felt like, youknow, I was never gonna do it
(28:17):
just cause.
So now there's a reason to doit, um, and that's great.
Um, we just played our firstshows like live band uh, out of
town, out of chicago, so like afirst little mini tour.
So I think in 2025 I don't knowwhere yet, but I think we're
gonna do a couple like a coupleweekends during the year where
we're gonna go maybe west coast,texas or something like that
somewhere around the states, butwe're gonna keep getting out
(28:37):
there and playing more shows,hopefully up to canada, maybe
you know, love it, love it.
I'll be front stage man yeah,but uh, lots of, uh, lot, lots
more live shows.
I mean, we have a ton of stuffbooked.
We have, you know, alreadynovember, december and I think
january booked for here inChicago and I'm actually already
working on a new single.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Amazing.
Well, I will post whatever youput out.
I always have, always will, andI wish you a lot of happiness
and fun with this record.
I love what you're doing.
Keep doing this progress thatI'm seeing happening in your
music.
It's been really fun to kind offollow along with you.
Um and Eden, please come back,uh, when we have some other
(29:19):
things we can talk about or newrecords.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Absolutely yeah, the next album I'll have to.
I'll have to chat again after Ido that.
We'll talk about the process.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Well, eden, you have yourself a great uh weekend.
And again, thanks so much forjoining me today.
Awesome, thank you.
(30:16):
Through shadows, the sun's eye,a light glows in your eyes.
You wanna grow old Waste allthe time?
Live in a dream, then try to beone I've never taken.
We'll see you next time.
(30:44):
Stop and time.
I'm going to go ahead and turnit off.
(31:40):
Bye, thank you.
I'm lost in your eyes , never last going nicely.
As we go through season four,we've had some such amazing
artists and today, no exception.
I've eaten from Cool Capital,cool yeah, the Apple's important
.
And Eden, you're coming in fromChicago area.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
That's correct, yeah, yeah yeah, Chicago Illinois.
Yep, yep, right on.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
And have you lived there?
Most of your life is that whereyou're yeah, I, I.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I'm living across the street from a hospital, so
excuse the ambulance noises, butI was born at that hospital
across the street.
Wow, yeah, amazing.
Yeah, I grew up in a suburb fora little bit and then uh came
back here.
I've been here.
I mean, yeah, I, I, I've beenhere.
I mean, yeah, I, I, I.
I've been in in the Chicagolandarea my whole life.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
So amazing, amazing, and what, what, like.
What's the music scene inChicago?
Like, like, what.
What's it like being an artistin Chicago?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Uh, awesome it's, it's super inspirational.
I mean, it's like the.
So I started playing music inhigh school and I was like I
lived out in the suburbs and Iwas like I think we did like
some crappy battle, the bandscompetition and like chicago to
like, oh, we can play in chicagoand I I just remember actually
going to see shows for like real.
Then when I got into collegeand I was like, oh, this is such
a cool place to like make musicand it just the amount of like
(01:57):
really cool bands and sceneshere and stuff like that.
There's been like this awesomeexplosion of like sort of
post-punky shoegazy music that'shappening just in general and
chicago has like it's, uh, it'suh, you know growth right there
and like, yeah, there's plentyof people rolling with it, yeah,
yeah exactly and just like it'salways had cool stuff, like I
(02:18):
think I remember when garagerock was like breaking out like
crazy, it was also like had aton of crazy bands like that.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
So I don't know right , it's got a rich history.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
It's always kind of been a mecca for like yeah, yeah
, yeah new genres and tryingyeah, yeah, especially like
pre-pandemic, it was definitelylike more so.
Like I think there was a lot ofdiy venues and I think that was
sort of a staple of the city aswell.
There's a little less of themnow, but that's like.
You know, I think of any reallycool DIY scene when you have,
like such a large city ofChicago and you get people like
(02:46):
I don't know coming together,just means there's a lot of
stuff going on.
There's some like amazingvenues too that we play out here
and they you know a lot of cooltouring artists pass through
here, which I think also letsthe music scene being really
cool.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
So yeah, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely.
It brings, like the spirit ofmusic into the city.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah.
Oh yeah, no, I mean, especiallywhen it's, like you know,
festival season, it's like theafter show is crazy.
It's like you know there's nota venue in Chicago that doesn't
have some sort of after showgoing on, which I think is
indicative of just like the widerange of genres of music and
stuff.
It's you know, it's a massivecity.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Amazing, amazing.
So where does it start?
For you, like, where did musicstart?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
like, if you, had to, like write your memoirs.
You know you're, oh right, yeah, like a rocking chair, yeah,
yeah uh.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Where's the point where music uh started to like
spark for you?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
uh, probably.
Uh, I mean, I started writingmusic like in high school.
I saw, I remember, just like ona whim, I went with my buddy to
go see interpol and I hadn'treally known where it was so
much, and it was on their annextour.
So it was actually one of thefirst shows I saw in chicago.
That like I really wanted to gosee and it was at aragon
ballroom and I just I'll neverforget it was like I bought a
bass.
(03:59):
Like three days later the firstsystem started playing.
I was like I was looking at allthe tabs of like I would look at
like interpol, the strokesblock party, because that's like
what I was listening to at thattime.
So I just like learn all thosetabs.
And I was like, oh, I want towrite music like this.
So I just like have always sortof done it.
And then, uh, I'd say, coolheat's just been like this like
long.
You know, I've always had likesolo demos.
(04:19):
I had a band previously here.
But like I always had thesedemos that I had, that I was
just like man, I just have likesuch a vision for this song.
But like, let's just like bringit to the band space and like
see what happens, but then, withcool heat, eventually it was
2019.
I was just like I really wantto just like, I don't know, give
a project a go, or like I don'tcare if I play this live.
I just want to like executethese ideas and like see how it
(04:41):
sounds and like, even if it's anonline only thing, it just is
what it is.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it just grewit.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Just that's amazing.
Well, and and you're you'revery right to say I mean, I've
I've been perusing your bandcamppage um, for quite some time
now actually, and you've gotsome great singles on there,
some like I mean, and you tendto make your records relatively
small but punchy right like theygive you a like a haymaker in
(05:08):
like 30, absolutely, yeah,that's a really good way to put
it.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
I love like this, like I don't remember where I I
can't remember which one it was,but there's, like you know,
there's like so many of themthat I like.
But there was this like one inparticular band that they had
like this like eight or ninesong punchy album and it was
like just under 30 minutes andit just felt like such, just
like uh, encapsulation of justlike this like week where they
took and they just like hadthese like sick ideas and they
(05:31):
wrote them out.
And that's kind of how I wantto approach making albums.
Like I just kind of like shuteverything out and I just have
like this, like, oh, let me justdemo out like nine of these
things as fast as I can rightnow, just to like catch that
sort of vibe, and then, like Iusually just know at some point
I'm like okay, I gotta stop now.
And then, yeah, I think it'sjust, it's also like a easy way
for me to work.
You know, I uh, it's a vacuumdoing a solo artist thing, you
(05:53):
know, so it's like sure for sureit's easier for me to like
Speaker 1 (05:56):
slice them when do you open the doors up to other
artists that might come andcollaborate with you in cool
heat is?
Does that happen or do you tendto keep this as a personal kind
of like these?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
are your songs.
You track them all I think well, overall it's personal I have
done some like where I, where Ifeature some other artists, like
on this recent album, I had, uh, an artist here in chicago
called flower babe um we hadjust been like you know, getting
friendly and just talkingonline and stuff like that.
We played a couple showstogether and then, yeah, I was,
I was like, oh, actually it'd bereally cool if you sang on one
(06:27):
of my songs.
So like that's like the extentof it will go.
But in terms of like trackingand stuff like my whole like
idea behind the project, whichare probably never straight from
, is that I just like, I'm in,like you know, I'm here, I'm,
I'm the surgeon, right?
Speaker 1 (06:40):
So this is your bubble and you're you're the
mastermind behind it.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
All right right, right and it's like, although
it's like a double-edged swordof like I you know I say the
vacuum earlier of like beinglike a negative kind of thing,
it's also the like, the nicething about it is that it is
just me and I'm just like, here,left to like execute whatever I
have that like, you know,whatever vision I have in my
head.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
So amazing, amazing and like how does a cool heat
song come to life?
Um, um, when do you, when doyou start to?
You know, something in the backof your head starts to click
thing.
Hmm, here's something, I got it.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Something's coming here Like when you get to that
phase it almost always startsthe same way.
I usually just like well, likeyou know, I work with drum
machines a lot in terms ofrecording Um, so I'll usually
just layer out some, like youknow, do some beat, and I'll
just layer it out for like fourminutes and then I just like
will create some sort of ambientnoise over it with my synth of
the guitar.
More often than not, those twofirst things I usually don't
(07:32):
keep.
I usually end up like kind ofredoing everything after the
fact and then, like, the biggeststep is once I have that like
base of like this, because, likea lot of like cool heat songs,
like as you probably listen to,are very like washed out, have a
lot of airy and like texturalstuff going on.
So once I kind of lay that liketextural sort of like foundation
, um, then I like go for thebass and then that's kind of
where I really start to likewrite the song and for it to
(07:54):
come together.
And then, uh, the last thingI'll do is vocals, because I, I,
I kind of hate them sometimes.
So, uh, um, but then, like themost fun I have is when I'm
doing that bass guitar.
So like, like, once I get therhythm down like I love locking
in, like I.
I think a key component of alot of cool heat songs is like
the locked in nature of like thebass and drums I know they have
(08:14):
like they're very just, likethat's like part of the haymaker
you're describing earlier isjust like.
That's like a like the drivingforce behind the music.
So once I've like fine-t that,then I just like it's really fun
Cause I just get to do all thelike really crazy melodic stuff.
You know I love a lot of likeethereal guitar work and then I
just sort of combine it alluntil it starts to sound like.
You know, I've done it for solong now in a way of like
(08:36):
writing music that I kind ofjust like I like.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I'll know, oh, that's .
That's sounding like a coolheat song.
Now, right, right, do you?
Does inspiration come like?
Do you have to sit down, or canyou be like driving home from
work and it's like?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
it's mostly what it's all about, I'm always like,
yeah, I'm always like hummingstuff to myself.
I never, like you know, notmuch of like a voice memo person
, but like I'm always just likehumming stuff or, like you know,
like I'm also just inspired bya lot of stuff I'm listening to.
So, so I'm sure just some songI've been really digging, I'll
like just kind of come up withsome beat in my head.
That's like probably like somestuff I've been listening to
recently, you know, just anamalgamation of stuff that I'm
(09:11):
always inspired by.
And, yeah, just a lot of itcomes from my head and I'm just
like, oh man, I'm really feelingthe that translation from like
what I heard in my head to like,oh, here's an analog drum
machine and just a di bass Ilike that idea too that you're
kind of use like the drummachine and like as a click
(09:34):
track kind of.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
You know like it's just kind of like is the bones
of it, but then it gets replacedwith all this meat and skin and
totally that's my track.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
I like just do not play the click tracks at all, so
like, I just like a little like, even if it just is like a, you
know what I mean.
Like I like, I just need likesome sort of like thing to give
me like, because it gives melike a little bit of feel,
whereas, like, like you know, II have no problem playing along,
no click, but it just is like,yeah, I like to sort of have an
idea of like, oh, what if I madea song?
It's going to be like this sortof you know, quick, two and a
(10:02):
half minute rocker that's goingto sound like this you know,
let's go like that.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
That's great, that's great and like your first record
anyway, on low tide, on on bandcamp.
I mean that's 2019, right?
Um, yeah, yeah.
And I mean you've been veryconsistent with, with your
releases.
Um, there's never much gapbetween.
Do you ever run into asituation where you're just kind
(10:26):
of blank, like it doesn't seemso from what you release, like
you always seem to be inspired,um, with something yeah, I mean,
every time I think that I havehit like a writer's block, I
just I just get, yeah, just likesomething will click and I'll
stop.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
I like I, I really thought I hit one when I was
doing the first album.
Nowhere like the first fulllength.
Um, when I was, like, you know,halfway through the tracking of
that, I was like, oh shit, Ithink I might actually be
stumbling into like a realhonest writer's book.
I never had before.
It was like weird, because Ijust generally always been like
like, oh, I got an idea, let'sjust do it.
Now I've got like I'm, I'm justwriting recording, but yeah, I
(11:03):
just took like it literally wasjust like two days off from just
doing nothing.
I think it just is like, uh,whenever I feel like I might be
getting it, it just, it justneeds a little bit disconnect.
You know I always takeintentional times off to to like
keep myself fresh, like afterI've done tracking everything.
I don't go straight into mixingit.
You know, I give myself like aweek or two off to like just
like not even listen to it atall.
You know, even if I'm like,even if I'm like obsessively
(11:26):
want to, I'll just be like Ineed to listen to some fresh
ears, because just even thatlike small time off is like huge
um and uh.
I just like being consistentalso, I think, with the releases
, because I feel like it just Idon't know, it's like a, if you
like actually follow along.
It's just nice to kind ofexpect to know that, like this
artist is going to be maybereleasing music consistent, like
on a consistent basis.
I don't know, it's just kind ofcool to me.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
So no, I do.
I love that too.
I mean, it's similar to thispodcast thing I do.
Is that that consistency ofputting something out every week
?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
right, right, it's good for like the algorithm too,
you know like not that I liketoo much but like, like Spotify
definitely likes when yourelease music on a consistent
basis.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Absolutely, absolutely.
How do you find that cool heathas evolved over time?
Like, has your approach towriting songs or recording songs
shifted over time?
Have you learned like cool tipsor shortcuts, or like, how has
the music kind of liketransformed itself as as you
(12:27):
grow older as a musician and getmore experience under your belt
?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
that's a good question.
Um, I'd say it has changedslightly in the sense of before
I was ever like, when I wasdoing the first stuff, it was
maybe about, like, I think maybetwo years before I'd started
actually like legitimatelyplaying shows as a live band.
So I've been recording musicfor a while and I found that,
like, especially with the latestrecord, abandon, um, I found
myself writing parts that weremore a little retrofitted for,
(12:52):
like, the people that play mylive band, a little bit more so
in terms of like, um, wherebefore, like on Nowhere, the
first album, I was like I don'tcare if I I never play any of
these songs live, like, so I'mgonna make them as like dense
and like intricate as possible,whereas this one, I was like I
don't care if I never play anyof these songs live, so I'm
going to make them as dense andintricate as possible, whereas
this one, I would kind ofsimplify certain things to be
like oh well.
And also there's this thingabout the live performance band
(13:15):
aspect.
Um, that I think is really coolwhere, like, there's a lot more
dreaminess and like softnessthat comes through in the
recordings, but there's still alot of dreaminess, but in live
band.
It's like a way more punchy andlike almost like.
I heard somebody describe it asdream punk one time.
I thought that was a good wayto describe it.
So it's like I feel like thestudio version is a little more
dream pop and like live a littlemore dream punk.
(13:36):
So I wanted to make like solately the music I've been
making has been a little morejust inspired by like the energy
.
I think that like we have onstage so like songs like real
life change and stuff like thatthat have like way more like
that post-punk, like high energy, sort of like kind of
thrashiness, almost aredefinitely informed by, like you
know, my evolution of likeplaying as a live band, um,
(13:58):
which I think is like a coolthing because it's like totally
organic.
I didn't really think aboutthat until like this album that
I did now, where I like kind ofmade a conscious effort to like
put that front like kind of yeah, it's cool you're saying that,
because I'm hearing that inabandon too, like it does have a
little bit more of in your face, um, yeah, yeah, which is the
intention.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
You could, yeah, like , and you can deliver it to
another artist saying thestructure is a little bit more
concrete or or easily, moreeasily described than yeah, just
make it airy right, right,right, because it's so easy just
to be like, oh yeah, just likesome do some airy bullshit in
the synth.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
You know, like this is way more of like.
You know, like synth wise,especially in this one it was
like, um, you know, on nowheremy first album.
I would tend to maybe just dolike an insane amount of just
like.
I don't care how many layers ofsynth there are, whereas like a
handful of songs on abandoned,we're just like no, I'm doing
two synth tracks and like thisis like.
(14:56):
You know, I'm gonna make itmore like that, which is why
some of the songs I think havethat sort of maybe like you know
, I mean more punchiness to them, because they're not like
focused on, like living in thiscloud, you know, even though
they are still very airy,reverb-y, but they're just not
as like I don't know, stuck inthat like my area yeah, yeah, no
, it's one of the things Iappreciate about your writing
and your music is that, thevastness to it almost, but
(15:20):
controlled vastness at times,like bringing us on this like,
yeah, really cool, trip.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Um, what is what is your?
Your live setup?
Like, like, how do you performthese songs live?
Like cause I imagine, likeyou're a DIY artist, like you're
doing most of this trackingyourself how does that translate
from from the record to a liveperformance?
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Um, it's, it's, it's awesome.
Honestly, I I've been reallypining to do some sort of like
live recording or some sort ofthing I'd love to do like a live
video session or something,cause I think it's really like
it's one of the things whenpeople see us it's definitely a
thing that they know, like Iwasn't expecting it to be so,
like you know in your face orwhatever like that, because it's
like I'd say, just generallyit's louder because there's five
(16:03):
like so you're going from likea bedroom artist to like five
musicians on stage.
So we got like two guitars andlike, whereas the guitars sit
maybe a little like sometimesunderneath in some of the songs
not all the songs but whereasthey're so also complemented
with the synth.
You know, when I mix I alwayslike you know I I like I love
things to be balanced, sothere's never anything that's
like too high up, but when it'slive it just is, especially in
(16:24):
smaller clubs, like you know,you're not really worried that
much about balance in that inthat same sense.
So, like translation to it, liveis just that you know, first
there's like a full live drumkit so that you got a little
more fullness there and then,like the synths go a little less
like you know.
You know they're still reallyairy in that, but when they mix
with guitars it kind of turnsinto this, like it feels like a
proper like sort of shoegaze,sort of like, you know, sound at
(16:46):
that point like more noisy butlike again in a controlled way,
like you're saying that likecontrolled sort of layered noise
, um, but yeah, it's, it's, it'sreally cool.
It's like I, like I I love thedynamics so much that I don't
want anything to change about it.
You know, it's like I lovehaving this, like this like
thing I can record and like makeit sound like in these like
(17:06):
sort of concise indie pop songsthat I can like turn into
something more than just indiepop songs and then, like live,
they turn into, like this, youknow, really energetic, sort of
like rock rock show, essentially.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
So yeah, yeah, amazing.
Have your live shows informedyour home recording Like maybe a
little.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Yeah, I mean a little bit, definitely.
I mean it's like so there's asong change on abandoned, which
was like one of my favorites offof it, and that one was
basically written from like a.
I was like I want to write asong, it's like going to just
sound amazing in the set, and Iwas like one of my favorites off
of it, and that one wasbasically written from like uh,
I was like I want to write asong, it's like gonna just sound
amazing in the set and I waslike it's like probably one of
my like even heavier songs onthat it's got like more of like
a like sort of like rockybreakdown at the end and like,
(17:47):
yeah, that was basicallyinformed by just like the last
few years of playing live andbeing like oh man, it'd be cool
if I just like wrote a song.
That was like a song I designedto be in the set.
You know what I mean and that'scool yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
And over, like do you think of the collaborations
down your road?
Like I know that you've beendoing quite a bit of this on
your own, but is there that kindof live idea of I guess I'm
trying to get at, like when youdeliver a song to the musicians
that are then going to play itwith you?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
How much instruction and how much freedom are you
navigate or allow them tonavigate when they're, when you
bring the song?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Not, not much, not much.
I definitely want like the like, especially when it comes to
drums and bass, as as, as, asthey'd probably say, I'm, um,
I'm quite picky about it.
Um, you know, I just, uh, Ithink that I'm a little more
lenient when it comes to the, uh, the synth stuff, uh, because,
(18:50):
like I'm more so, just, you know, I'll show him the.
You know, I, I show them allthe parts you know, like, they
know what the parts is, theylearn the parts, they're awesome
at learning the parts you know,and they really knock it out of
the park like they likecompletely bring these
performances to life.
It's like, you know, withoutthem, if I was just playing
alone to some stuff, it just itwould like the energy would be
just so lost.
So, like you know, I'm forevergrateful for that.
But I'm also definitely like astickler when it comes to.
(19:12):
You know, I'm like, let's justlike, because, like, my idea is
that if we just like do whatwe're supposed to do with, these
parts are, then the rest justtakes care of itself by virtue
of the fact that there's five ofus playing this stuff live, as
opposed to me recording it pieceby piece, like we don't need to
put anything else more intothat.
I'm okay with, like, obviously,little things of like.
You know this is a drum machine, so like, play it like you're a
(19:33):
drummer, you know what I meanLike that sort of stuff like
that sort of stuff.
You know I'm not expecting likerobotic stuff maybe I am, I
don't know honestly, otherwise,so yeah, I mean I try not to be
too much of a hard ass, but likeI'm also just like you know, I
get so like attached to thesongs when I record them that I
just sure, like you know, Ithink I, I think I just hear it
differently than they do.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
So it's like right, right and in your recording
process, like, what do youcontrol the most of all the
tracking?
Like, is it more of theinstrumentation or is it your
every single?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
aspect.
Yeah, no, yeah, there's not asingle aspect about me.
Yeah, so, like everything Irecord myself, so it's all done.
It's all done here in myapartment.
Um, there's, there's nothing,except for maybe the few
features that I've done withsome people who've, like you
know, done some vocals on mything or done something else
else, like, yeah, I record everylittle instrument, so all the
guitars, bass and drums andsynth work, it's all.
(20:27):
It's all stuff that I do soright, right.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
And when it comes to tracking too, like how would it,
how long would it take you fromrecording those first quick
tracks to actually having thesong?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
finished.
Um, honestly, it feels likelike you.
So you're saying from like alike from just start to finish,
essentially like fully finished.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Yeah yeah, the recording process itself yeah,
yeah, I mean like.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
So the tracking instrumentation part does not
take nearly that long, but ittakes a long to do vocals.
I mean it's probably like agood, like you know, I don't
know as early as like three days, probably like a week or so,
before I'm actually finished.
Like I'm trying to average outthe time I spend because, like,
I do all the tracking for everyindividual song, so, like on,
like on abandon, I had ninetracks done without any vocals,
(21:11):
without any real inclination ofwhat the vocals are going to be.
I mean, obviously I start tosort of hum things along as I'm
writing and recording and thenthat's when I take probably the
most amount of time.
It's like the tracking takespretty fast because, like, I
just find that I'm prettycomfortable and fast with it,
but like writing lyrics anddoing melodies and stuff, I'm
just a lot more.
Yeah, it just takes me longer.
So it's like that period takinga couple months where, as
(21:33):
opposed to, like I could trackall the songs you know in like a
couple weeks easy, likeprobably less than that Cool.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
And what is it about the, the vocals, that that that
require more attention for you?
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Uh, I think that I'm just, um, I'm it's, it's like so
I used to write a lot of musicbefore I started like ever
really singing, so I was neverreally that comfortable with it.
So it was like always kind ofwas like lagging behind my
instrumentation stuff when I wasyounger and I took a choir
class and started singing morein my other band when I was like
in college and that made mefeel a lot better about it.
I think I just have like a veryspecific I don't know.
(22:09):
I feel like I'm just like waymore hypercritical of that or
maybe less confident of itsometimes.
So I find that I have to listento it way more as if, like you
know, I just like, yeah, likeI'm always worried about maybe
like something sounds a littleflat or if I can't really tell,
whereas, like with the guitar, Ican always just tell really
easily if I made a mistake.
I'm like that, whereas likevocals, I'm always, like you
(22:37):
know, vocals are the thing thatI'm usually most terrified of
doing.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
So I'm always like you know, I'm like nine songs in
.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
I'm like man, I just like ruin all nine of these
songs, your vocals, like yeah,oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I always record.
Uh, I like I always record onedry and I'll usually leave that
one in, because that's usuallythe like, the take that I feel
great about.
And then I'll sort of dodifferent takes at like
different sort of, like you know, I I'll do lower pitches, I'll
do something that's more breathy, and then I'll add all my
reverb and stuff like that.
So usually I have like three,four, even five of like the same
(23:02):
vocal part layered on there.
And I don't really do that muchwith the instruments, unless I'm
getting like crazy on some sortof guitar part or something
like that.
But vocals I do a lot oflayering and I like to sort of,
like you know, stagger them alittle bit so they have that
sort of fullness.
You know what I mean, um, butyeah, it's, it's just the thing
that takes me longest and Idon't.
I don't know if I need to takeas long as I do, but I just I
(23:23):
don't know.
I've done two albums this wayand I feel pretty happy with my
process.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
For you know, yeah, small little tweaks and whatnot
yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, I agreewith you, though your vocals
have become much more, um,because pre, like older songs,
you kind of whitewash them alittle bit.
Eh, because, yes, I understand,it's your voice.
You can't separate it from yourbody like an instrument.
(23:48):
You know, it's you right, right.
So that intimidation, for sureI understand that.
Um, you know, I remember beingon stage sometimes and like I
don't want to sing these songs,I'll play them.
Oh, yeah, no.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
And then someone comes up to me afterwards like,
yeah, I couldn't understand likewhat you're saying, because
you're just like whispering thewhole time and I was like yeah
well, that's like the big thingfor me is that, like you know, I
spent a lot of the times likerecording this stuff.
It's like so I was saying thelive band gets like a lot louder
live but like what doesn'tnecessarily translate is like
doing the vocals how I recordthem here really isn't feasible
to do it live because, like youcan't you know you turn the mic
(24:22):
up.
Be like you know, if I'mwhispering the vocals it's going
to feedback all time.
So I finally invested in like areally nice vocal processor to
like get like really good reverband like chorus on there and
that's been like the last likeuh, maybe six months of shows
I've used this and it's beenlike a huge game changer and
that's like changed.
But yeah, that's a good point.
I mean because, yeah, and likemy very early stuff when I was
(24:43):
less confident, I definitelywould like yeah, wash, like even
more washed out, sort of tomake it as just another
instrument, whereas, like thelast, the last maybe couple
years of releases now have beenmore about like especially this
latest album.
I don't think I've ever hadsome up front, absolutely up
front totally.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
I I like it sounds great to you and I'll tell you
say that like it sounds reallygood.
I think that all of thisattention to detail has has
trained your voice and and itfeels like you've come to a
stage now where you feelcomfortable with it.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah, this is the most comfortable I felt with
doing it.
I was going to say earlier.
It's also, like you know, Itake longer, but I will say,
with abandon, this was thequickest that I have done in
terms of tracking vocals andfeeling really good about them,
and it was.
I think that also translates towhy, when I was mixing them, I
felt very confident to like putthem up front.
You know more.
So, yeah, absolutely how itshould be, cause, like you know,
(25:36):
I'll always go back and listento my earlier stuff and be like
well, it's just interesting tohear how the things have sort of
changed a little bit, you know.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Have you ever thought of likegoing back to some of those old
tracks and like inspiring newlife into them, or oh absolutely
there's actually one that weplay live.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Now it's called always on time.
It's like the second song thatI wrote, maybe third it I think
it was another 2019 release.
This is when I was just doingsingles, like I would just play
my casio drum machine and justlet it play.
There's no real likemanipulation or anything and
then I just played over it and Iwas like, you know, the song
took me like a day to make and Iwas like and that was one of
(26:13):
the things that inspired me tokeep making it because it's kind
of like I think it's onsoundcloud or something.
It sort of like blew up oryoutube I forget what it was,
but we play it now because oneof my guitarists is always like
you gotta add this song to theset, you gotta do it and it's
awesome.
Now it really sounds great inthe set and I sort of thought
about going back and, uh, youknow, maybe just like
re-releasing as a single,because it's like, oh, it's a
2019 song, like who's reallygonna care?
(26:35):
Music anyways.
So it's like yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
I mean, I was talking to an artist recently and he's
about he's going back to hisolder songs, like he's recorded
so many freaking songs and he'slike put these new, this new air
into them and it's just, yeah,it brings them back to life, you
know, into the artist I used todo, andrew bird.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
He used to do a lot to his songs.
Yeah, he would always, I feellike he had like three
renditions of like a fewdifferent songs, um, and I
always thought that was cool.
Um.
So it's like, yeah, there'sactually, uh, on my first album
uh nowhere there's a song calledslow burn which was released as
a single before.
It was like my very first one.
I took, took it down and thenlike I released some of like
some other ones and I like hadjust like rerecord some bass and
(27:16):
I think I had like anothervocal take to make it sound a
little fresher and like give ita little remix to match the rest
of the song, and it wasactually like one of like my
most popular songs on the album.
So I was like really happy todo that, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Awesome, Awesome stuff, man.
Well, Well, as we kind of cometo a close here, it's really
cool to finally.
I mean, you audience don't know, but Eden and I we've been
playing like tennis with thispodcast for a while.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
But we finally got it here, so it's really been a
pleasure to talk with you.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
My last question is like what's, what's, what's
coming down the pipe here in2024, 2025 that you could tell
us about with your music?
Speaker 2 (27:57):
in 2024, 2025 that you could tell us about with
your music?
Uh, hopefully a lot um I uh.
So I released this album,abandoned with my label spirit
goth and um, for the first timewe're doing thank you.
For the first time I'm doingvinyl, so, uh, that's in
production I believe, or aboutto be in production.
So I got all like the art andall that stuff sorted.
So that's been like definitelya thing I've always wanted to do
, um, but I never felt like, youknow, I was never gonna do it
(28:17):
just cause.
So now there's a reason to doit, um, and that's great.
Um, we just played our firstshows like live band uh, out of
town, out of chicago, so like afirst little mini tour.
So I think in 2025 I don't knowwhere yet, but I think we're
gonna do a couple like a coupleweekends during the year where
we're gonna go maybe west coast,texas or something like that
somewhere around the states, butwe're gonna keep getting out
(28:37):
there and playing more shows,hopefully up to canada, maybe
you know, love it, love it.
I'll be front stage man yeah,but uh, lots of, uh, lot, lots
more live shows.
I mean, we have a ton of stuffbooked.
We have, you know, alreadynovember, december and I think
january booked for here inChicago and I'm actually already
working on a new single.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Amazing.
Well, I will post whatever youput out.
I always have, always will, andI wish you a lot of happiness
and fun with this record.
I love what you're doing.
Keep doing this progress thatI'm seeing happening in your
music.
It's been really fun to kind offollow along with you.
Um and Eden, please come back,uh, when we have some other
(29:19):
things we can talk about or newrecords.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Absolutely yeah, the next album I'll have to.
I'll have to chat again after Ido that.
We'll talk about the process.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Well, eden, you have yourself a great uh weekend.
And again, thanks so much forjoining me today.
Awesome, thank you.
(30:16):
Through shadows, the sun's eye,a light glows in your eyes.
You wanna grow old Waste allthe time?
Live in a dream, then try to beone I've never taken.
We'll see you next time.
(30:44):
Stop and time.
I'm going to go ahead and turnit off.
(31:40):
Bye, thank you.
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