April 1, 2025 • 30 mins
Danny Bateman's musical journey unfolds like a richly textured composition – beginning with classical piano at age seven, where he discovered the profound connection between player and composer. "I'm experiencing what Mozart's body feels like 200 years later," he reflects, highlighting how this early training built the foundation for his innovative approach to songwriting.
The pivotal moment came during his first recording studio session as a teenager. Witnessing the magic of production techniques—overdubbing, multiple takes, vocal doubling—crystallized his future path. "That was when I knew this is what I want to do for the rest of my life," Bateman shares, though he admits his real education came through hands-on experience rather than formal training.
What makes Bateman's creative process uniquely compelling is his embrace of improvisation and structure simultaneously. "Form creates the walls that you sit in," he explains. "Without form, nothing means anything." This philosophy manifests in his latest project with FROG, "1000 Variations on the Same Song," inspired by Lil Wayne's mixtape approach—marathon recording sessions yielding dozens of improvised pieces. With his brother Stevie on drums, Bateman captures spontaneous creative moments, later selecting the most memorable to re-record on his increasingly lo-fi eight-track tape machine.
The results speak for themselves—sold-out shows at venues like Bowery Ballroom and an upcoming West Coast tour with rapidly disappearing tickets. For aspiring musicians, Bateman offers crystal-clear advice: "You need to fail a lot, iterate, attempt." He emphasizes that accumulating "reps" through prolific creation is the only path to mastery. Most importantly, "If you're not having fun, then the song isn't good. If you are having fun, then the song is good."
Ready to experience FROG's unique sound? Catch their West Coast tour kicking off next week, or dive into their extensive catalog featuring some of indie music's most joyfully authentic compositions. The beauty of Bateman's approach lies in its simplicity—creating music worth making for its own sake, with each new recording building toward something increasingly extraordinary.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
colleyc (00:31):
It took our jobs off the floor.
Let us go off the floor.
It gets pretty cold along theline.
Here we are.
Welcome everyone to anotherepisode of Beulah Podcast.
We're coming to you on a prettylaid-back Friday.
I have Danny Bateman from Froghere who is down in Brooklyn
(00:56):
hanging and doing his thing, andwe're going to kind of do a
whole survey of his musicaljourney so far, and we have to
do it within 25 minutes.
So no pressure, but we're gonnaroll like there's no rolling.
Um.
So, danny, thanks so much fortaking me up on this offer.
(01:16):
I've.
I was harassing jamie actuallyquite a bit, your, your pr guy,
to to to get you to come on,because I was just so into you.
FROG (01:25):
Oh, thank you, Appreciate that.
colleyc (01:28):
Yeah, well, I was really excited that you finally
had said yes, I think I've beenasking him since season two, but
he was very gracious and he'slike, oh, I'll get to them.
And then he's like, why don'tyou have this person come on,
and then it just evolved.
And anyway, all that, that tosay I'm super happy to have you
(01:48):
here.
Um, then we usually like tostart off with kind of like I've
kind of shifted my question alittle bit.
So if you think back over yourmusical career so far, what were
a few of the tipping pointsthat really propelled your music
forward or allowed you to getmore recognition or shifted how
(02:13):
you approach music in a way?
What are some of those momentsthat come to you when you think
about how you got to where youare now?
FROG (02:22):
that were really poignant moments for you how you got to
where you are now.
That were really poignantmoments for you.
Um, so, uh, you know I wasseven years old when I started
playing the piano and that was apretty big moment for me.
You know, I took lessons with,um, someone who taught me
classical music.
(02:42):
I still love classical musicand I love playing the piano and
I love playing, um, you know,classical music on the piano.
I feel like there's somethingreally unique about experiencing
music through playing it,through sight reading, because
you're the artist and you'realso experiencing the composer
(03:07):
and what they do.
You're bringing it to life inthe way that you can.
But, like, recently I've beenobsessively playing mozart.
Like all the sonatas and, um,the way he plays.
Like, if you play his musicenough like for as much as I
(03:30):
have you can start to see thethings that he does.
Like every artist, especiallythe type of artists that I
usually fall in love with, whocompulsively make music like, it
becomes an addiction for them.
Like Charlie Parker's, likelieparker's, like that, mozart's
like that yeah, they tend to dothe same things a lot.
Like they'll have little littlebird isms.
(03:53):
They have little mozart ismsand um, it's, it's about, it's
like the kind of things like,like you know, nicola, nicola
yok, he does the Sambor shuffle.
That's his move before he heskyhooks over you, right?
So everybody has little thingsthat they do and if you play
(04:14):
enough Mozart, you can start toape him, you can start to do the
things he does and you can sortof like understand the way his
body moves and what he does.
And that was crazy to me, right, that you could actually I'm
I'm experiencing what his bodyfeels like 200 years later and
that that's like an amazing like, sort of like um thing.
(04:38):
So that was big.
Starting to learn the piano,then I was in rock bands, uh,
like, starting around age 12, 13, um, I first went at the
recording studio when I was like15 or 16 and made the record
with my band in high school andthat was like a pretty big
moment for me because that wasthe first time I ever like saw
(05:01):
someone use a recording studiothat knew what they were doing.
Um, and the process of likeoverdubbing, of doing takes, of
like doubling, of like singing abunch of times, like that whole
process of like building, youknow, like a pop record, uh
really like had a major effecton me.
(05:23):
Like that was like the firsttime I was like, okay, this is
what I want to do for the restof my life.
I don't know how it's going tohappen, but like it's just like
really, it's really like hookedme you know, yeah, um, and so
then, you know, I went to likerecording school, but I wasn't
really a good student, so Ididn't really learn that much
(05:43):
there.
Um, uh, and I just taught it tomyself later by doing it, which
is the only real way to make art.
Yes, and then you know, sincethen, like you know, every time
you make a record I'm learning,and that's the most exciting
thing for me is I love to learnEvery single time I make another
(06:05):
record record.
I'm learning so much, more andmore and I'm getting better and
better at making music and, um,that's really exciting to me
because I think that's cool.
I've gotten really good now andI'm getting better.
That's a really exciting thingto me.
Like, I get better every day.
I do think today that I wouldnever be able to do yesterday
(06:25):
and that that's amazing to me.
That's the fun thing aboutmusic to me is like growing,
getting finding more things,finding more little, little
corners of the world that I'venever been to, you know yeah,
totally, totally.
colleyc (06:41):
I love what you said too about feeling like that
nostalgia of, of feeling likeyour body, feeling how Mozart
felt while he was like that kindof structure and almost like
the root, the routine that, likeyou don't want to call art
(07:01):
routine because it is, you know,creative and imagination comes
in and feel and heart.
But there is structures tosongs, right.
You can relate it to amathematical kind of idea, right
, it's very computational in thesense that songs usually have a
structure that they follow.
Do you feel that you'veestablished kind of a structure
(07:25):
style that you go to when you'rewriting songs, or has it kind
of always evolved, as you saidwith your music, where you're
just learning new things all thetime, or do you have a set kind
of like structure of how a songcomes to be?
FROG (07:42):
I mean, it's a really good question.
You know, form is the mostessential aspect of any art.
Like, form creates the wallsthat you sit in, right.
Form gives meaning toeverything you do.
Without form, nothing meansanything.
(08:03):
Bunuel says that the art thattries to have no influences is
the most formulaic of all art.
Like it's the most, it stealsthe most right.
Right, and every form is really.
(08:24):
Someone doing a version of anold song right.
Someone doing a song is a form,right.
A type of song Like this is acountry song, right.
You have to have a hook.
That's funny, it's like.
And the hook is it creates thepurpose of the verses, right.
Or a funk song the funk song'sgot to be a fucking dope riff.
(08:46):
And then, um, james brown isjust like, just talking over it.
He says one, he's got a hook,and then he just vibes for like
right, you know what I mean?
That's the form, right.
And um, so yeah, I mean like,like Mozart, for example, like
the sonatas, the sonata form.
(09:07):
You say something in one key,right.
And then you say another thingin the five of that key, and
then you go and you do some funstuff and then you go back to
the first thing, and then yousay the same thing you said in
the five, but now you say it inthe one, and, and that's a
sonata, right?
Or the first, or yeah, that'sthe sonata form, and then you
(09:29):
have a fast song, a slow song,sometimes you have a dance, like
a minuet and trio, and then youhave a really fast song to end.
So that's like it's like a set,you know, and that's all.
All of his son eyes are likethat and they're all exactly the
same, every single one, exactlythe same, um, and that's why
they're so beautiful is becauseyou know a lot of the things
(09:52):
that I was saying, like a lot ofthe things that I'm exploring
with the whole variations thing.
It's like, once you, once you umestablish a form, once you um
set in stone the things that canhappen in your art, then you
can start to discover what elseis there.
(10:12):
And there's so much else.
That's infinite things you know, like.
Here's an example jk rowling, Idon't know if you've read harry
potter's.
Your kids have read harrypotter at all, yep, okay.
Well, harry Potter book isexactly the same.
He starts, he's with theDursleys, he's in the summer,
(10:33):
right, there's a lot of drama.
His birthday happens right, andthen something cool happens.
He goes with Ron.
There's like he meets up withhis friends and then they go to
school.
And then there's like he meetsup with his friends and then
they go to school and thenthere's like ominous stuff
happening.
colleyc (10:51):
And then in the end he meets Voldemort and beats him
Right.
That's it, you got it.
FROG (10:54):
That was four Right, yep.
And she writes the same bookover and over again, but she
gets better and better at it.
Every book is better and better.
The last one when it's likeincredible Right, better.
The last one when it's likeincredible right, and she's a
master right.
So there's something to learnfrom that right.
Repetition is the father oflearning, right.
Once you understand the form,you can do it better than anyone
(11:15):
else.
And so that's the idea of thevariations, is you have to set
in stone the things that youwant to play with.
These are your instruments,these are your flavors.
You know what I mean.
This is your recipe, right, andyou can just do it in all sorts
of ways.
You know infinite ways, andthat's that's sort of the
variations project.
You know, like I, the first,like 11 of them, or 10 of them.
(11:39):
I put on this record, um, butme and Stevievie, we go in there
, we we'll do like, we'll dolike 30, 40 songs in one night.
You know, like um, honestly likeserious production well, that's
what I'm saying, chris like youjust like jk rowling, got
(12:01):
better and better at it and thenshe became the best by the
seven books, the best fantasywriter.
Like that's one of the bestfantasy series ever.
Right, and um, once you dosomething enough, then you can
start to do something like it.
Things get really exciting.
You can start to be able to dothings that you could never.
You never could before and um,that's what's sort of exciting
(12:25):
about doing this project.
You know what I mean.
You know a lot of it is relatedto Lil Wayne.
He was doing a lot of mixtapesin the 2007, 2008, 2009 era and
he would do them all in one oror two days.
(12:45):
And there's no choruses.
There's no.
There's just beats that helikes, or like any beats that
someone puts on, and he justflows.
You record the whole thing.
He'll stop, he'll think about itand then record the next part
and like he has his little cribsthey call them crips like he
(13:07):
has little things he says.
He says like wheezy f, baby, andthe f is for something, the f
is for front door, becausethat's where I bring it.
So if you to woo, if you bang itright, and he always like has
the same types of things that hesays over and over and, over
and over again and he just hasso much fun because he knows
exactly what happens in a littlewind rap song and he takes
those.
And he just has so much funbecause he knows exactly what
happens in a little way in rapsong and he takes those and he
(13:29):
does.
He can do this a milliondifferent ways, like infinite
ways, and that's what themixtapes are.
You know he's not.
He can just flow and just haveso much fun and not have anyone
else to worry about rapping ordoing hooks.
You know what I mean?
Absolutely those are.
The most exciting way in musicto me is like the mixtapes,
especially the ones he made from2006 to 2009 or went to jail,
(13:53):
um, and that that was also likereally, uh, influential on, like
the variations project right,right, and I mean thinking about
that.
colleyc (14:02):
I love.
I love your words and howyou're describing that.
I mean thinking about that.
I love your words and howyou're describing that.
How do you apply this to yoursongwriting process?
Like, how does a song come froman idea?
You have in your head that seedof an idea to flushing it out,
to seeing it go on tape, andwhen do you know when a song is
(14:23):
worth keeping going with ratherthan just kind of throwing it on
the floor and I'll come back tothat maybe some other time.
It's just not working anymore.
Like, do you, do you have songsthat start as ideas that
blossom in others that that justdon't meet meet the level that
you're trying to get at?
FROG (14:44):
um.
So the answer is, of course,but like you know, back in the
day I think I was like much morelike um, like I wrote, like
other people, you know, like um,I was working a song for a
while and I would try it a bunchof ways and I would write the
lyrics, like I hear people talkabout songwriting and I used to
(15:06):
do it in a way that's sort ofanalogous to what they do.
But now, like now, I just Ijust go honestly, does it start
with?
Speaker 1 (15:20):
like the music or is it?
colleyc (15:22):
okay, all improvised.
FROG (15:25):
I'm improvising every single thing that happens right,
and we'll improvise all night.
There'll be 30 songs that weimprovised and the ones that we
like.
We're like.
Can we use this improvisedversion and just like, maybe
like double the vocals?
And usually the answer is no,because I was like slurring my
words or something.
But like, sometimes the answeris yes and those were really fun
(15:47):
.
That's what I aspire to like.
I want to like go on.
I want to like stream making awhole record live.
Never wrote any of the songsbefore.
It's all improvised and thenput that out.
That's what I like.
That's the mixtape, that's.
That's little wayne, I'm doingit.
I just I'm writing the beat tooas we go.
You know, I'm like I just gotmore weapons you know, I mean,
(16:13):
he's better than me at what hedoes.
Obviously he's the greatestever right, but um, I can't play
the piano like I can do thoseimprov sessions though danny did
those.
colleyc (16:24):
Do you just hit record on those like is that kind of
like your incubator time, likewhere you're just trying to
flush ideas out and, um, like,everything gets recorded, and
then you listen back to thoseand say, okay, that chunk was
great.
FROG (16:38):
That's great too that maybe we can combine those two
or like kind of dissect it allup so that it fits inside again
the structure of a frog song so,yeah, like I do stuff like
you're you're describing, but,like you know, as I keep doing
this, as I keep like now I makemusic like compulsively, like
(17:02):
I'm doing it, I don't, I can'tstop and um, but I like that.
It's a good thing that I can'tstop, but I can't and um, like
so, instead of like it beingsomething that I'm doing
consciously, I just go right,I'm just improvising songs and
(17:26):
songs and songs, and now there'sso much music that I've
recorded I can't even listen toall of it.
You know what I mean.
colleyc (17:34):
Like I really can't on time.
So I mean even the stuff youput out.
FROG (17:38):
You put out a ton of stuff which is you have no idea more.
colleyc (17:43):
Next week, right, right .
And with all of this recordinghistory and all of your catalog
that you have, how do you findthat the latest fits in there?
Um, you know 100 variations onthe same song.
Where do you classify thatamongst your, your catalog?
FROG (18:05):
so you know, I spent a whole year doing what I'm
describing just like endlessimprovised sessions with steve
and I think all those things arelike actually insane, like some
of the things that happenedthose nights were are like I
don't know how that's possible,but, like you know, again, I
(18:28):
couldn't even listen to all ofit, like so, like I just like
took the ones that I rememberedthat happened and then I
recorded them again on tape andthat's what it is like.
It's a really like.
We did it really really quickly.
It was like like, like you know, like a couple weeks, like a
week or a few sessions, you knowwhat I mean and then, and then
we put it out because we likethe way it sounded, so like that
(18:50):
.
That's the only bit of likeediting or forethought I put in.
It's just I remembered thatthose songs were good and so I
did them again.
Um, on the eight track tape, myeight track is I like the way
it sounds but it's's broken.
Like now every song is more andmore lo-fi because every track
is breaking more and more.
(19:11):
Okay, I have to get it fixed,but I haven't had time.
colleyc (19:15):
Do you self-record Like , do you go into studios once
you have like a group of songsyou're ready to?
FROG (19:21):
Everything myself.
I track it, I mix it, I masterit, I write it.
I play every instrument exceptmix it, I master it, I write it.
I play every instrument exceptfor drums.
Stevie plays.
colleyc (19:31):
That's your brother, right.
FROG (19:33):
Yeah, yeah, okay, cool, stevie's my brother.
But yeah, it's always good tohave someone there, because
otherwise you'll spend like amonth trying to get this song
right.
And if you just looked over inhis eyes and you saw that he
wasn't vibing on it, you wouldjust move on instantly.
You would wait, you, you wouldthat whole month was wasted
(19:54):
because that song sucks.
That's why it's not working.
colleyc (19:59):
That's really interesting and, like, since
this has been out it's been outa month now um been in the world
.
How have you felt the reactionhas been towards it, towards
towards your latest?
FROG (20:12):
I think it's been pretty awesome.
Um, you know like we sold outthe bowery ballroom, which yeah
a month earlier blew my mindyeah, um, but madison square
garden is coming next.
colleyc (20:26):
You know what I mean.
That's it.
I need money.
FROG (20:32):
Time to raise the bar.
colleyc (20:34):
Time to raise the bar.
That's cool and like what's?
What's people's reaction toyour show?
Like I mean, I know you're onstage and the lights are there
and it's, you know, chaotic, andbut when you look at it in the
crowd and see people that arewatching you, what's the vibe
that you get from crowds whenyou're?
FROG (20:58):
performing.
So when I was early in mycareer, everyone was asleep.
When I was on stage, later inmy career, they weren't asleep
anymore, but there weren't thatmany of them, okay.
And now, now, later in mycareer, they weren't asleep
anymore, but there weren't thatmany, okay.
And now now, the good shows,people are fucking very into
them.
I don't have to remember my ownlyrics because the crowd is
(21:20):
just screaming it so that's whatI was gonna ask you.
colleyc (21:23):
Like.
I talked to one musician.
He said I knew that I wasconnecting with people when I
they were.
They knew the lyrics betterthan I did.
FROG (21:32):
Like it's not hard to know the lyrics better than me.
colleyc (21:35):
I forget them all the time I make songs, so I can
don't have to remember them Iremember when I was performing I
always had to bring a a page ofpaper with the first line
because I figured if I could getthe first line, everything else
would just start tumbling.
You know, hopefully that's what.
And it kind of helped, becauseusually it was like what's that
(21:55):
first line?
Then you'd kind of like startlooking at people freeze up.
So I learned the hard way thatjust write the first fucking
line on there and then maybe andit totally was a good trick it
helped, um yeah that can helptoo.
FROG (22:13):
Uh, singing.
It is the only way to in art,the only way to learn to do
something is to do it right yeah, totally.
colleyc (22:22):
I uh, I read this aristotle quote to these kids
today and that you don't learnto do anything without doing it.
You know, I mean he only saidit like five million years ago,
but it still applies.
You know that you could, youcan study and read and watch
videos and listen to a gazilliontracks, but until you get your
(22:44):
hands involved in doingsomething, particularly in the
arts field, I mean forget aboutit.
Forget about it.
It's not going to.
You know it won't stick.
FROG (22:52):
Nothing else will suffice.
I cannot agree more.
That's it.
That's it.
Try to get out there, do it,that's it.
Do it all.
Do it to the end, release it.
It's not done until you releaseit.
colleyc (23:03):
Yep, yeah.
Well here's my final questionfor you, danny, because I'm
cognizant of our time and, again, I really appreciate this time.
This was a really funconversation and I guess my last
question to you is, seeing asthat you've had this pretty
intense relationship with music,what kind of advice do you give
(23:24):
to those younger kids that arejust starting up, or you know
they're out of high school andthey want to start a band and
like, what are some of thethings that you learned in your
journey so far that have beenvery helpful for you when it
comes to doing your own music?
FROG (23:42):
Yeah, uh, the most important thing in art and life
is you need to fail a lot, youneed to iterate, you need to to
attempt, you need to really tryand make the best record you can
right now, and then you need torelease it, and then you need
(24:08):
to learn from that over and overagain ad infinitum.
That's the most important thing.
It's the actually onlyimportant thing is that you need
the reps.
Now.
I've made so much music that Ihave had more reps than almost
anyone, not more than littlewayne, but a lot of people right
(24:29):
now.
I think that's why I can do thisis because I have I I've done
it so many times, okay, and andso, like, I think, um, also,
like you know, music's abouthaving fun, and if you're not
having fun, then the song isn'tgood, and if you are having fun,
(24:52):
then the song is good and it'snot that complicated, right, you
have, it has to be fun.
If it's not fun, then youshouldn't be doing it.
There you go, um, that's cool,yeah like the the business part
of it.
Do not spend any time on thebusiness part of it at all.
(25:13):
It's not worth spending time on.
If it works out, that's great.
If it doesn't, don't worryabout it, it's about having fun.
It's worth doing in and ofitself because that's what you
like doing, because you're amusician.
And if you don't like doing it,then why are you fucking doing
it, right?
colleyc (25:27):
do something else.
Yeah, you know, and you sayingthat like it sounds like you're
always having fun and on most ofthe songs you write that are
out there in the world, theyjust make you feel like I feel
how you feel, you know, and it'sit's happy, you know, it's it's
(25:48):
interest, it's it's drawing youin, like all those beautiful
things that you hope happen.
I find that in your, in your,in your songwriting.
So, thank you, I mean thelatest record's just been really
on repeat for me, um, plus allthe other ones.
I mean, jeez, you have so manyfreaking great songs.
Thank you, I really appreciatethat, that that you're still
(26:10):
putting music out and we'll justkeep listening to it.
And finally, danny, what'swhat's 2025.
?
What can people anticipate?
Can you share any music that'scoming out, or tour dates or
anything that that people couldcheck you out and buy a record
or a shirt or support you insome way?
FROG (26:30):
We're going on tour next week.
Oh shit, okay, on the Westcoast, nice, um uh, la and New
York are sold out.
Um, sf is running low, so youbetter get there.
Portland and Vancouver there'sa bunch of tickets left, but I
(26:52):
think you should get there ifyou want to.
You should really, if you wantto come see us, get on the
internet and buy some tickets,because they're running fast.
colleyc (27:00):
There we go, thank god, yeah that's encouraging, though
, when tickets are selling.
FROG (27:05):
I I just need money, man.
I need money very badly and I'mvery happy that people are
excited to give it to me,because that is very convenient.
colleyc (27:16):
I'm handy right, absolutely, absolutely.
Money is what makes the worldgo round, unfortunately, but at
the same time, it allows us todo the things we want to do If
you haven't.
So, um, go and buy a record.
Check out frog.
Get a record at the your localrecord store if you can go and
(27:39):
see them live.
Go and see him live.
Go and say hi to danny.
I'm sure he's would be veryhappy to say hello, I'm selling
t-shirts.
FROG (27:45):
I sell my own t-shirts.
There you go my little scheme,right?
I feel like people want to talkto me.
They have to buy a t-shirt, oror else it's awkward.
You know what I mean.
What are you doing talking tome?
We're talking t-shirts.
I like that.
You have to buy it.
colleyc (27:58):
There you go, and maybe you could even drink for for
for his performance.
Um, check it out.
A hundred variations on thesame song came out a month ago.
Go get it.
A thousand sorry, more thanthat, a thousand variations on
the same song.
Plus is just go check out hiscatalog, check out his band camp
(28:21):
page that he's prolific in hiswriting and from our
conversation that we just had,he I don't think he's stopping
guys.
So, uh, there'll be more tofollow up with frog down the
road.
So, danny, I will definitelyhave you back on on the next
record and, uh, I hope that wecan uh continue this
conversation because it's beenreally a fascinating one.
(28:42):
So, thank you thanks, chrischeers.
Speaker 5 (28:47):
Thanks for having me pleasure, pleasure can you tell
me that you ain't my type?
That's okay, girl, I don't mind, it's just tell me that you
can't sit still Ain't this townserved alcohol.
(29:11):
It's got me crawling up a wall.
I was pounding up a fuckingtall one.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
I'm fucking around, I'm fucking around, I'm fucking
around, I'm fucking around, I'mfucking around, I'm fucking
around, I'm bucking them down.
I'm bucking them down, I'mbucking them down.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
You sounded clever to her, killed her in front of all
her friends, but you lookedover at her.
I didn't need anything.
Speaker 5 (29:50):
You said what you felt, you didn't chill.
I'm fucking up the track likemy name's Jay, biller, pop,
mother, dad, finn, I.
I sold Bill and Cat.
Just a bad man, snow coldkiller.
You're taking this and draw twolines through.
Now we're talking sex life.
Oh, we're done, do it.
(30:11):
Now we're talking sex baby.
You're walking through it somuch drunk it's like a bar of QA
.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
I'm fucking around, I'm fucking around, I'm fucking
around, I'm fucking around, I'mfucking around, I'm fucking
around, I'm fucking around.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
I'm bucking them down .
I'm bucking them down, I'mbucking them down.
They sounded clever to herkiller, but I'm all her friends.
Speaker 5 (30:49):
But you looked over and she hadn't needed anything.
It took our jobs off the floor.
Let us go off the floor.
It gets pretty cold along theline.
Here we are.
Welcome everyone to anotherepisode of Beulah Podcast.
We're coming to you on a prettylaid-back Friday.
I have Danny Bateman from Froghere who is down in Brooklyn
(00:56):
hanging and doing his thing, andwe're going to kind of do a
whole survey of his musicaljourney so far, and we have to
do it within 25 minutes.
So no pressure, but we're gonnaroll like there's no rolling.
Um.
So, danny, thanks so much fortaking me up on this offer.
(01:16):
I've.
I was harassing jamie actuallyquite a bit, your, your pr guy,
to to to get you to come on,because I was just so into you.
FROG (01:25):
Oh, thank you, Appreciate that.
colleyc (01:28):
Yeah, well, I was really excited that you finally
had said yes, I think I've beenasking him since season two, but
he was very gracious and he'slike, oh, I'll get to them.
And then he's like, why don'tyou have this person come on,
and then it just evolved.
And anyway, all that, that tosay I'm super happy to have you
(01:48):
here.
Um, then we usually like tostart off with kind of like I've
kind of shifted my question alittle bit.
So if you think back over yourmusical career so far, what were
a few of the tipping pointsthat really propelled your music
forward or allowed you to getmore recognition or shifted how
(02:13):
you approach music in a way?
What are some of those momentsthat come to you when you think
about how you got to where youare now?
FROG (02:22):
that were really poignant moments for you how you got to
where you are now.
That were really poignantmoments for you.
Um, so, uh, you know I wasseven years old when I started
playing the piano and that was apretty big moment for me.
You know, I took lessons with,um, someone who taught me
classical music.
(02:42):
I still love classical musicand I love playing the piano and
I love playing, um, you know,classical music on the piano.
I feel like there's somethingreally unique about experiencing
music through playing it,through sight reading, because
you're the artist and you'realso experiencing the composer
(03:07):
and what they do.
You're bringing it to life inthe way that you can.
But, like, recently I've beenobsessively playing mozart.
Like all the sonatas and, um,the way he plays.
Like, if you play his musicenough like for as much as I
(03:30):
have you can start to see thethings that he does.
Like every artist, especiallythe type of artists that I
usually fall in love with, whocompulsively make music like, it
becomes an addiction for them.
Like Charlie Parker's, likelieparker's, like that, mozart's
like that yeah, they tend to dothe same things a lot.
Like they'll have little littlebird isms.
(03:53):
They have little mozart ismsand um, it's, it's about, it's
like the kind of things like,like you know, nicola, nicola
yok, he does the Sambor shuffle.
That's his move before he heskyhooks over you, right?
So everybody has little thingsthat they do and if you play
(04:14):
enough Mozart, you can start toape him, you can start to do the
things he does and you can sortof like understand the way his
body moves and what he does.
And that was crazy to me, right, that you could actually I'm
I'm experiencing what his bodyfeels like 200 years later and
that that's like an amazing like, sort of like um thing.
(04:38):
So that was big.
Starting to learn the piano,then I was in rock bands, uh,
like, starting around age 12, 13, um, I first went at the
recording studio when I was like15 or 16 and made the record
with my band in high school andthat was like a pretty big
moment for me because that wasthe first time I ever like saw
(05:01):
someone use a recording studiothat knew what they were doing.
Um, and the process of likeoverdubbing, of doing takes, of
like doubling, of like singing abunch of times, like that whole
process of like building, youknow, like a pop record, uh
really like had a major effecton me.
(05:23):
Like that was like the firsttime I was like, okay, this is
what I want to do for the restof my life.
I don't know how it's going tohappen, but like it's just like
really, it's really like hookedme you know, yeah, um, and so
then, you know, I went to likerecording school, but I wasn't
really a good student, so Ididn't really learn that much
(05:43):
there.
Um, uh, and I just taught it tomyself later by doing it, which
is the only real way to make art.
Yes, and then you know, sincethen, like you know, every time
you make a record I'm learning,and that's the most exciting
thing for me is I love to learnEvery single time I make another
(06:05):
record record.
I'm learning so much, more andmore and I'm getting better and
better at making music and, um,that's really exciting to me
because I think that's cool.
I've gotten really good now andI'm getting better.
That's a really exciting thingto me.
Like, I get better every day.
I do think today that I wouldnever be able to do yesterday
(06:25):
and that that's amazing to me.
That's the fun thing aboutmusic to me is like growing,
getting finding more things,finding more little, little
corners of the world that I'venever been to, you know yeah,
totally, totally.
colleyc (06:41):
I love what you said too about feeling like that
nostalgia of, of feeling likeyour body, feeling how Mozart
felt while he was like that kindof structure and almost like
the root, the routine that, likeyou don't want to call art
(07:01):
routine because it is, you know,creative and imagination comes
in and feel and heart.
But there is structures tosongs, right.
You can relate it to amathematical kind of idea, right
, it's very computational in thesense that songs usually have a
structure that they follow.
Do you feel that you'veestablished kind of a structure
(07:25):
style that you go to when you'rewriting songs, or has it kind
of always evolved, as you saidwith your music, where you're
just learning new things all thetime, or do you have a set kind
of like structure of how a songcomes to be?
FROG (07:42):
I mean, it's a really good question.
You know, form is the mostessential aspect of any art.
Like, form creates the wallsthat you sit in, right.
Form gives meaning toeverything you do.
Without form, nothing meansanything.
(08:03):
Bunuel says that the art thattries to have no influences is
the most formulaic of all art.
Like it's the most, it stealsthe most right.
Right, and every form is really.
(08:24):
Someone doing a version of anold song right.
Someone doing a song is a form,right.
A type of song Like this is acountry song, right.
You have to have a hook.
That's funny, it's like.
And the hook is it creates thepurpose of the verses, right.
Or a funk song the funk song'sgot to be a fucking dope riff.
(08:46):
And then, um, james brown isjust like, just talking over it.
He says one, he's got a hook,and then he just vibes for like
right, you know what I mean?
That's the form, right.
And um, so yeah, I mean like,like Mozart, for example, like
the sonatas, the sonata form.
(09:07):
You say something in one key,right.
And then you say another thingin the five of that key, and
then you go and you do some funstuff and then you go back to
the first thing, and then yousay the same thing you said in
the five, but now you say it inthe one, and, and that's a
sonata, right?
Or the first, or yeah, that'sthe sonata form, and then you
(09:29):
have a fast song, a slow song,sometimes you have a dance, like
a minuet and trio, and then youhave a really fast song to end.
So that's like it's like a set,you know, and that's all.
All of his son eyes are likethat and they're all exactly the
same, every single one, exactlythe same, um, and that's why
they're so beautiful is becauseyou know a lot of the things
(09:52):
that I was saying, like a lot ofthe things that I'm exploring
with the whole variations thing.
It's like, once you, once you umestablish a form, once you um
set in stone the things that canhappen in your art, then you
can start to discover what elseis there.
(10:12):
And there's so much else.
That's infinite things you know, like.
Here's an example jk rowling, Idon't know if you've read harry
potter's.
Your kids have read harrypotter at all, yep, okay.
Well, harry Potter book isexactly the same.
He starts, he's with theDursleys, he's in the summer,
(10:33):
right, there's a lot of drama.
His birthday happens right, andthen something cool happens.
He goes with Ron.
There's like he meets up withhis friends and then they go to
school.
And then there's like he meetsup with his friends and then
they go to school and thenthere's like ominous stuff
happening.
colleyc (10:51):
And then in the end he meets Voldemort and beats him
Right.
That's it, you got it.
FROG (10:54):
That was four Right, yep.
And she writes the same bookover and over again, but she
gets better and better at it.
Every book is better and better.
The last one when it's likeincredible Right, better.
The last one when it's likeincredible right, and she's a
master right.
So there's something to learnfrom that right.
Repetition is the father oflearning, right.
Once you understand the form,you can do it better than anyone
(11:15):
else.
And so that's the idea of thevariations, is you have to set
in stone the things that youwant to play with.
These are your instruments,these are your flavors.
You know what I mean.
This is your recipe, right, andyou can just do it in all sorts
of ways.
You know infinite ways, andthat's that's sort of the
variations project.
You know, like I, the first,like 11 of them, or 10 of them.
(11:39):
I put on this record, um, butme and Stevievie, we go in there
, we we'll do like, we'll dolike 30, 40 songs in one night.
You know, like um, honestly likeserious production well, that's
what I'm saying, chris like youjust like jk rowling, got
(12:01):
better and better at it and thenshe became the best by the
seven books, the best fantasywriter.
Like that's one of the bestfantasy series ever.
Right, and um, once you dosomething enough, then you can
start to do something like it.
Things get really exciting.
You can start to be able to dothings that you could never.
You never could before and um,that's what's sort of exciting
(12:25):
about doing this project.
You know what I mean.
You know a lot of it is relatedto Lil Wayne.
He was doing a lot of mixtapesin the 2007, 2008, 2009 era and
he would do them all in one oror two days.
(12:45):
And there's no choruses.
There's no.
There's just beats that helikes, or like any beats that
someone puts on, and he justflows.
You record the whole thing.
He'll stop, he'll think about itand then record the next part
and like he has his little cribsthey call them crips like he
(13:07):
has little things he says.
He says like wheezy f, baby, andthe f is for something, the f
is for front door, becausethat's where I bring it.
So if you to woo, if you bang itright, and he always like has
the same types of things that hesays over and over and, over
and over again and he just hasso much fun because he knows
exactly what happens in a littlewind rap song and he takes
those.
And he just has so much funbecause he knows exactly what
happens in a little way in rapsong and he takes those and he
(13:29):
does.
He can do this a milliondifferent ways, like infinite
ways, and that's what themixtapes are.
You know he's not.
He can just flow and just haveso much fun and not have anyone
else to worry about rapping ordoing hooks.
You know what I mean?
Absolutely those are.
The most exciting way in musicto me is like the mixtapes,
especially the ones he made from2006 to 2009 or went to jail,
(13:53):
um, and that that was also likereally, uh, influential on, like
the variations project right,right, and I mean thinking about
that.
colleyc (14:02):
I love.
I love your words and howyou're describing that.
I mean thinking about that.
I love your words and howyou're describing that.
How do you apply this to yoursongwriting process?
Like, how does a song come froman idea?
You have in your head that seedof an idea to flushing it out,
to seeing it go on tape, andwhen do you know when a song is
(14:23):
worth keeping going with ratherthan just kind of throwing it on
the floor and I'll come back tothat maybe some other time.
It's just not working anymore.
Like, do you, do you have songsthat start as ideas that
blossom in others that that justdon't meet meet the level that
you're trying to get at?
FROG (14:44):
um.
So the answer is, of course,but like you know, back in the
day I think I was like much morelike um, like I wrote, like
other people, you know, like um,I was working a song for a
while and I would try it a bunchof ways and I would write the
lyrics, like I hear people talkabout songwriting and I used to
(15:06):
do it in a way that's sort ofanalogous to what they do.
But now, like now, I just Ijust go honestly, does it start
with?
Speaker 1 (15:20):
like the music or is it?
colleyc (15:22):
okay, all improvised.
FROG (15:25):
I'm improvising every single thing that happens right,
and we'll improvise all night.
There'll be 30 songs that weimprovised and the ones that we
like.
We're like.
Can we use this improvisedversion and just like, maybe
like double the vocals?
And usually the answer is no,because I was like slurring my
words or something.
But like, sometimes the answeris yes and those were really fun
(15:47):
.
That's what I aspire to like.
I want to like go on.
I want to like stream making awhole record live.
Never wrote any of the songsbefore.
It's all improvised and thenput that out.
That's what I like.
That's the mixtape, that's.
That's little wayne, I'm doingit.
I just I'm writing the beat tooas we go.
You know, I'm like I just gotmore weapons you know, I mean,
(16:13):
he's better than me at what hedoes.
Obviously he's the greatestever right, but um, I can't play
the piano like I can do thoseimprov sessions though danny did
those.
colleyc (16:24):
Do you just hit record on those like is that kind of
like your incubator time, likewhere you're just trying to
flush ideas out and, um, like,everything gets recorded, and
then you listen back to thoseand say, okay, that chunk was
great.
FROG (16:38):
That's great too that maybe we can combine those two
or like kind of dissect it allup so that it fits inside again
the structure of a frog song so,yeah, like I do stuff like
you're you're describing, but,like you know, as I keep doing
this, as I keep like now I makemusic like compulsively, like
(17:02):
I'm doing it, I don't, I can'tstop and um, but I like that.
It's a good thing that I can'tstop, but I can't and um, like
so, instead of like it beingsomething that I'm doing
consciously, I just go right,I'm just improvising songs and
(17:26):
songs and songs, and now there'sso much music that I've
recorded I can't even listen toall of it.
You know what I mean.
colleyc (17:34):
Like I really can't on time.
So I mean even the stuff youput out.
FROG (17:38):
You put out a ton of stuff which is you have no idea more.
colleyc (17:43):
Next week, right, right .
And with all of this recordinghistory and all of your catalog
that you have, how do you findthat the latest fits in there?
Um, you know 100 variations onthe same song.
Where do you classify thatamongst your, your catalog?
FROG (18:05):
so you know, I spent a whole year doing what I'm
describing just like endlessimprovised sessions with steve
and I think all those things arelike actually insane, like some
of the things that happenedthose nights were are like I
don't know how that's possible,but, like you know, again, I
(18:28):
couldn't even listen to all ofit, like so, like I just like
took the ones that I rememberedthat happened and then I
recorded them again on tape andthat's what it is like.
It's a really like.
We did it really really quickly.
It was like like, like you know, like a couple weeks, like a
week or a few sessions, you knowwhat I mean and then, and then
we put it out because we likethe way it sounded, so like that
(18:50):
.
That's the only bit of likeediting or forethought I put in.
It's just I remembered thatthose songs were good and so I
did them again.
Um, on the eight track tape, myeight track is I like the way
it sounds but it's's broken.
Like now every song is more andmore lo-fi because every track
is breaking more and more.
(19:11):
Okay, I have to get it fixed,but I haven't had time.
colleyc (19:15):
Do you self-record Like , do you go into studios once
you have like a group of songsyou're ready to?
FROG (19:21):
Everything myself.
I track it, I mix it, I masterit, I write it.
I play every instrument exceptmix it, I master it, I write it.
I play every instrument exceptfor drums.
Stevie plays.
colleyc (19:31):
That's your brother, right.
FROG (19:33):
Yeah, yeah, okay, cool, stevie's my brother.
But yeah, it's always good tohave someone there, because
otherwise you'll spend like amonth trying to get this song
right.
And if you just looked over inhis eyes and you saw that he
wasn't vibing on it, you wouldjust move on instantly.
You would wait, you, you wouldthat whole month was wasted
(19:54):
because that song sucks.
That's why it's not working.
colleyc (19:59):
That's really interesting and, like, since
this has been out it's been outa month now um been in the world
.
How have you felt the reactionhas been towards it, towards
towards your latest?
FROG (20:12):
I think it's been pretty awesome.
Um, you know like we sold outthe bowery ballroom, which yeah
a month earlier blew my mindyeah, um, but madison square
garden is coming next.
colleyc (20:26):
You know what I mean.
That's it.
I need money.
FROG (20:32):
Time to raise the bar.
colleyc (20:34):
Time to raise the bar.
That's cool and like what's?
What's people's reaction toyour show?
Like I mean, I know you're onstage and the lights are there
and it's, you know, chaotic, andbut when you look at it in the
crowd and see people that arewatching you, what's the vibe
that you get from crowds whenyou're?
FROG (20:58):
performing.
So when I was early in mycareer, everyone was asleep.
When I was on stage, later inmy career, they weren't asleep
anymore, but there weren't thatmany of them, okay.
And now, now, later in mycareer, they weren't asleep
anymore, but there weren't thatmany, okay.
And now now, the good shows,people are fucking very into
them.
I don't have to remember my ownlyrics because the crowd is
(21:20):
just screaming it so that's whatI was gonna ask you.
colleyc (21:23):
Like.
I talked to one musician.
He said I knew that I wasconnecting with people when I
they were.
They knew the lyrics betterthan I did.
FROG (21:32):
Like it's not hard to know the lyrics better than me.
colleyc (21:35):
I forget them all the time I make songs, so I can
don't have to remember them Iremember when I was performing I
always had to bring a a page ofpaper with the first line
because I figured if I could getthe first line, everything else
would just start tumbling.
You know, hopefully that's what.
And it kind of helped, becauseusually it was like what's that
(21:55):
first line?
Then you'd kind of like startlooking at people freeze up.
So I learned the hard way thatjust write the first fucking
line on there and then maybe andit totally was a good trick it
helped, um yeah that can helptoo.
FROG (22:13):
Uh, singing.
It is the only way to in art,the only way to learn to do
something is to do it right yeah, totally.
colleyc (22:22):
I uh, I read this aristotle quote to these kids
today and that you don't learnto do anything without doing it.
You know, I mean he only saidit like five million years ago,
but it still applies.
You know that you could, youcan study and read and watch
videos and listen to a gazilliontracks, but until you get your
(22:44):
hands involved in doingsomething, particularly in the
arts field, I mean forget aboutit.
Forget about it.
It's not going to.
You know it won't stick.
FROG (22:52):
Nothing else will suffice.
I cannot agree more.
That's it.
That's it.
Try to get out there, do it,that's it.
Do it all.
Do it to the end, release it.
It's not done until you releaseit.
colleyc (23:03):
Yep, yeah.
Well here's my final questionfor you, danny, because I'm
cognizant of our time and, again, I really appreciate this time.
This was a really funconversation and I guess my last
question to you is, seeing asthat you've had this pretty
intense relationship with music,what kind of advice do you give
(23:24):
to those younger kids that arejust starting up, or you know
they're out of high school andthey want to start a band and
like, what are some of thethings that you learned in your
journey so far that have beenvery helpful for you when it
comes to doing your own music?
FROG (23:42):
Yeah, uh, the most important thing in art and life
is you need to fail a lot, youneed to iterate, you need to to
attempt, you need to really tryand make the best record you can
right now, and then you need torelease it, and then you need
(24:08):
to learn from that over and overagain ad infinitum.
That's the most important thing.
It's the actually onlyimportant thing is that you need
the reps.
Now.
I've made so much music that Ihave had more reps than almost
anyone, not more than littlewayne, but a lot of people right
(24:29):
now.
I think that's why I can do thisis because I have I I've done
it so many times, okay, and andso, like, I think, um, also,
like you know, music's abouthaving fun, and if you're not
having fun, then the song isn'tgood, and if you are having fun,
(24:52):
then the song is good and it'snot that complicated, right, you
have, it has to be fun.
If it's not fun, then youshouldn't be doing it.
There you go, um, that's cool,yeah like the the business part
of it.
Do not spend any time on thebusiness part of it at all.
(25:13):
It's not worth spending time on.
If it works out, that's great.
If it doesn't, don't worryabout it, it's about having fun.
It's worth doing in and ofitself because that's what you
like doing, because you're amusician.
And if you don't like doing it,then why are you fucking doing
it, right?
colleyc (25:27):
do something else.
Yeah, you know, and you sayingthat like it sounds like you're
always having fun and on most ofthe songs you write that are
out there in the world, theyjust make you feel like I feel
how you feel, you know, and it'sit's happy, you know, it's it's
(25:48):
interest, it's it's drawing youin, like all those beautiful
things that you hope happen.
I find that in your, in your,in your songwriting.
So, thank you, I mean thelatest record's just been really
on repeat for me, um, plus allthe other ones.
I mean, jeez, you have so manyfreaking great songs.
Thank you, I really appreciatethat, that that you're still
(26:10):
putting music out and we'll justkeep listening to it.
And finally, danny, what'swhat's 2025.
?
What can people anticipate?
Can you share any music that'scoming out, or tour dates or
anything that that people couldcheck you out and buy a record
or a shirt or support you insome way?
FROG (26:30):
We're going on tour next week.
Oh shit, okay, on the Westcoast, nice, um uh, la and New
York are sold out.
Um, sf is running low, so youbetter get there.
Portland and Vancouver there'sa bunch of tickets left, but I
(26:52):
think you should get there ifyou want to.
You should really, if you wantto come see us, get on the
internet and buy some tickets,because they're running fast.
colleyc (27:00):
There we go, thank god, yeah that's encouraging, though
, when tickets are selling.
FROG (27:05):
I I just need money, man.
I need money very badly and I'mvery happy that people are
excited to give it to me,because that is very convenient.
colleyc (27:16):
I'm handy right, absolutely, absolutely.
Money is what makes the worldgo round, unfortunately, but at
the same time, it allows us todo the things we want to do If
you haven't.
So, um, go and buy a record.
Check out frog.
Get a record at the your localrecord store if you can go and
(27:39):
see them live.
Go and see him live.
Go and say hi to danny.
I'm sure he's would be veryhappy to say hello, I'm selling
t-shirts.
FROG (27:45):
I sell my own t-shirts.
There you go my little scheme,right?
I feel like people want to talkto me.
They have to buy a t-shirt, oror else it's awkward.
You know what I mean.
What are you doing talking tome?
We're talking t-shirts.
I like that.
You have to buy it.
colleyc (27:58):
There you go, and maybe you could even drink for for
for his performance.
Um, check it out.
A hundred variations on thesame song came out a month ago.
Go get it.
A thousand sorry, more thanthat, a thousand variations on
the same song.
Plus is just go check out hiscatalog, check out his band camp
(28:21):
page that he's prolific in hiswriting and from our
conversation that we just had,he I don't think he's stopping
guys.
So, uh, there'll be more tofollow up with frog down the
road.
So, danny, I will definitelyhave you back on on the next
record and, uh, I hope that wecan uh continue this
conversation because it's beenreally a fascinating one.
(28:42):
So, thank you thanks, chrischeers.
Speaker 5 (28:47):
Thanks for having me pleasure, pleasure can you tell
me that you ain't my type?
That's okay, girl, I don't mind, it's just tell me that you
can't sit still Ain't this townserved alcohol.
(29:11):
It's got me crawling up a wall.
I was pounding up a fuckingtall one.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
I'm fucking around, I'm fucking around, I'm fucking
around, I'm fucking around, I'mfucking around, I'm fucking
around, I'm bucking them down.
I'm bucking them down, I'mbucking them down.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
You sounded clever to her, killed her in front of all
her friends, but you lookedover at her.
I didn't need anything.
Speaker 5 (29:50):
You said what you felt, you didn't chill.
I'm fucking up the track likemy name's Jay, biller, pop,
mother, dad, finn, I.
I sold Bill and Cat.
Just a bad man, snow coldkiller.
You're taking this and draw twolines through.
Now we're talking sex life.
Oh, we're done, do it.
(30:11):
Now we're talking sex baby.
You're walking through it somuch drunk it's like a bar of QA
.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
I'm fucking around, I'm fucking around, I'm fucking
around, I'm fucking around, I'mfucking around, I'm fucking
around, I'm fucking around.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
I'm bucking them down .
I'm bucking them down, I'mbucking them down.
They sounded clever to herkiller, but I'm all her friends.
Speaker 5 (30:49):
But you looked over and she hadn't needed anything.
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