October 2, 2024 • 36 mins
Have you ever wondered how early childhood experiences shape our understanding of identity? Join me and my good friend Brandon as we reminisce about his journey of self-discovery, starting from grade two when he first began to realize his sexuality. Listen as Brandon recounts his poignant and often hilarious story of coming out to his family in grade 10, supported by his best friend. We dive deep into the complexities of growing up in environments that often don’t align with our true selves, from strained father-son dynamics to the role of traditionally masculine activities in shaping our identities.
Navigating the labyrinth of self-acceptance is no small feat, especially against the backdrop of societal pressures and internalized homophobia. Brandon reflects on how activities like taekwondo and hockey failed to resonate with his true passions. We discuss the isolation we felt from the queer community due to fear and self-doubt, and how meeting inspiring individuals like a trans woman helped us embrace our true selves. This chapter is a powerful reminder of the importance of community and the transformative power of authentic connections, even overcoming initial apprehensions within the gay community.
In the final segment, things get candid as we explore early sexual experiences and the lessons learned. From the awkwardness of teenage encounters to the nuances of Grindr adventures, we discuss everything with humor and honesty. We emphasize the importance of consent and comfort, sharing our experiences navigating these formative years. Additionally, we tackle topics like the commercialization of Pride and the importance of health services, shedding light on the critical role of places like the HIM Clinic. Wrapping up, we offer heartfelt advice for those grappling with their sexual identity, underscoring the importance of supportive friendships and self-acceptance. Don’t miss this engaging and enlightening episode!
Follow the show on Instagram at: https://www.instagram.com/imnotgayyouarepodcast/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joey (00:13):
Welcome to our episode three of I'm Not Gay.
You Are with your host, Joey,that is me.
Today we have Brandon, one ofmy really good friends.
I'd love to introduce you.
Say hi to the people.
Brandon (00:25):
Hello everybody.
How's everyone doing today?
Joey (00:28):
Tell us a little bit about yourself, how we met, and we're
going to get into your story alittle bit.
Brandon (00:35):
A little bit about me.
I am a Taurus Gemini, risingCapricorn moon, so do with that
what you will.
We met at a lovely restaurantthat we worked at together we
shall not say their name no, youleft me there it's very sad,
but we will continue on me andbrandon have.
Joey (00:52):
We share like the same kind of communicative, like
friendship and like lifestyle, Iguess.
So it was super easy for us tolike hit it off when I first met
brandon, and I am so honoredfor him to be the first guest on
our podcast because I feel likehe's got such good life
experiences, um, which he'sgoing to share with us, and the
way he communicates is like mylanguage too, so I'm super
(01:15):
stoked, I think it's going to bereally fun and I feel like,
yeah, you're so sweet.
Brandon (01:20):
Thank you, this will be fun thanks for being here.
I can't wait.
Joey (01:24):
Our first topic and point today is we want to know your
coming out story.
So you know how old were youwhen you, you know, realized
that you wanted to be with men?
Or you know how early on didyou realize that you were gay,
and how did that?
You know, unfold, and who didyou tell first and you know how
did that.
You know unfold, and who didyou tell first and you know how
(01:46):
did it feel to to.
Brandon (01:48):
You know, come out so we're gonna take it way back
when I was in grade two, I think, and I never knew what it meant
.
But there was this one olderguy when I say older, I think he
was like in grade five and Iwas like, oh my god, who's that?
Never knew what it meant andlike moved on with my life.
And then in junior high I keptgetting that, oh my god, you're
(02:08):
gay, just be gay already.
We all know that you're gay.
But I, of course, didn't acceptthat in myself or really like
acknowledge it, until in gradenine I turned the corner and
there was this beautiful boythat had returned from grade two
and I looked around and I waslike, oh my god, I think I like
dudes oh, it wasn't the foreignexchange student that came in.
They were like oh, no, it wasjust a sweet little homely boy
(02:33):
that I had met in grade two andthen he came back and I like
turned around the corner and Iwas like, oh my god, you again
do you?
Joey (02:39):
do you know if he identifies as gay too?
Brandon (02:42):
no, he's very straight, very christian, very religious
views.
Joey (02:47):
I guess that walks straight into your type.
Now then huh.
Brandon (02:49):
Yeah, I've got a little problem here with me and my
straights, but that's fine.
You know, we all grow up andmove on.
Yeah, so I remember talking tomy best friend at the time.
She was this girl that was alsosuper religious, but very
accepting and kind of like,helped me get through it.
Joey (03:04):
Okay.
Brandon (03:07):
So it was also super religious but very accepting and
kind of like, helped me getthrough it.
Okay, so in school I had comeout in grade nine and then in
grade 10, I had met my gay bestfriend and that's when my
parents started being like hey,we have some questions for you.
So one day they texted me andthey were like we're going to
have a family meeting andimmediately I knew I was like,
oh my God, they're about to askme the question I don't want to
answer.
You knew, yeah, I knew rightaway and I texted all my friends
.
I was like, oh my God, it'shappening, I'm getting sat down,
(03:27):
what do I do?
And they were like, just behonest and go with it.
So then, that's the day I cameout.
I really honestly think it wasbecause of the time of Glee was
really big.
Joey (03:46):
So then they were like oh, and wants to be with the girls
all the time.
But you had, like when, like inmy episode when I was telling
the podcast about you know mykind of experience, mine was, I
was very, you know, surroundedby like a lot of women and like
I, I didn't really play withbarbie, so you had like the uno
reverso of experiences for me.
But yet here we are, two gayhave, like you know, the same
kind of views and values andlike so I feel like, yeah, like
(04:12):
tell me, like you know how, likewho was your best friend?
Like you know you you'dmentioned to me that you know it
was more.
Brandon (04:20):
You were surrounded by like masculine, like influences
and like yeah, so growing up itwas me and my dad um, my parents
had split when I was younger,so my dad had tried everything
like let's get him into sports,let's get him into taekwondo,
and of course that was not wheremy interests were not taekwondo
yeah, like karate you name it,I was.
Joey (04:39):
Tell me what belt you got.
I was white.
Brandon (04:41):
I quit yeah, they started hitting me with a bamboo
stick and I was like lynn, getme out of here 100.
Joey (04:47):
I was like this is not from, that's my dad.
Oh, okay, when I get angry.
Brandon (04:50):
I'm like lynn, get me out of here oh cute so he really
did try.
He's such a guy's guy and I'msuch a girl's girl yeah that
like it.
Just it never really clickedand I think that was probably
maybe a like interesting pointin our relationship is he kept
trying to be like baseballhockey do this and I'm just not
that.
(05:11):
So I wasn't very close with mymother at the time because we
had separation so I didn't havelike a lot of strong female
influences until I startedhaving my girlfriends.
And then when I had mygirlfriends, my dad was like why
are you trying to ask to sleepover at a girl's house?
You're a boy and I'm like butI'm a girl's girl babe.
Yeah, they don't get it, no,they don't.
But all of my friend's parentswere like we're not worried
(05:33):
about Brandon, and my dadobviously just wasn't paying
attention at the time that I wastrying to play with.
Joey (05:39):
I mean that's awesome, though, like I said, it's such a
different outlook and adifferent upbringing from me.
I guess you were thrown intosports.
Literally thrown, literally Ipulled out my inhaler every time
and I was like oh, asthma, no,thank you.
Brandon (05:55):
I can't run.
I've got asthma.
Joey (05:58):
For my next question nature versus nurture and what
your experience and yourpersonal experiences how do you
feel like that affected you?
Do you feel like you were borngay or do you feel like you were
nurtured into being gay?
Do you think it's like ahandful of of things, what like?
(06:19):
What's your opinion there?
Brandon (06:20):
I think I was definitely born to be gay.
I am, against all odds, likebeing raised by my dad, like
he's very redneck and he liketried to have that masculine son
, but like my personality isjust a flamboyant little
homosexual man that wanted tojust be who I was and I think
that was part of my dad'sjourney is maybe he had a lot of
(06:41):
like masculine things about himand he had to learn to accept a
little bit of feminine sidestoo, right, yeah, okay, that's
fair.
Joey (06:50):
I like that.
Um, so you would say you wereborn this way and it was
nature's way yeah, as much asthey tried to nurture it right
out of me as much as thetaekwondo yeah, and the hockey
sticks tried it was not thestick I was interested in.
Yeah, it was not honey and notthe ice skates that you wanted
to wear no, I wanted to be thefigure skater actually.
(07:13):
No, I'm terrible, I could seeit.
I don't know why.
Brandon (07:15):
I could see you figure skating no, my god, I look like
pambi on ice.
My best friend is a figureskater and she's talented and I
just look like wretched.
Just like who put the old ladyon the ice.
Joey (07:27):
Take her off you've got like that little um, that zimmer
frame that they give to thekids when they like get on the
ice and like you have to likepush oh, that looks like a
walker.
Yeah, literally nana on icethey call it a zimmer frame in
england.
I guess it is called a walkerhere.
Brandon (07:41):
That's so funny oh yeah , because you grew up across the
pond I did.
Joey (07:44):
yeah, and I feel like with this podcast as well, there's
so many different users thatlike our listeners that listen
to it, and it's hard for me todirect my vocab to like one
audience because I'm I live hereso I know the canadian slang
and north american terms, butthen I quickly, while when I'm
talking, I can have to likedissect it for my British
(08:06):
listeners.
So I'm like, oh well, You'rejust so worldly.
I just what can you say, You're?
Brandon (08:12):
just going to go with that.
Joey (08:13):
Maybe I'll translate into Spanish as well, and hit a new
market.
Brandon (08:17):
Hit a new market.
Oh my God, pass you.
Joey (08:20):
Pass you.
That's so funny.
What struggles did you facewhen you were younger versus now
, and how do you overcome that?
And what have you learnedgrowing up?
Brandon (08:31):
Yeah, so I think when I was younger and being given
like just being with my dad andhaving to like be, like no, I
don't want hockey, no, I don'twant to do certain things, I
guess it was kind of a battle oflike internalized homophobia,
because I remember startinggrade 10 and like this is before
I was sat down and asked about,like are you gay or not?
(08:52):
Um, I had signed up for likeelectives such as auto body and
like reconstructing cars, whichwas interesting, and like a
skill.
I'm glad I learned, but that'snot where my passion is.
Like I look back at it and likenow that I'm in hair school and
like that's something I want togo forward with, that's
something that was offered in myhigh school.
Joey (09:09):
And I need to state right now your hair is beautiful.
Thank, you no one can see it,and that's the worst part.
Brandon (09:13):
Well, you know, it's on the Instagram.
You can hit follow, subscribe.
It's called Debra's mom.
Yeah, it's pretty fun, I love.
But I just wish that like Icould have had that like
internal reflection or maybelike a little bit more support
and I could have found mypassions a little bit sooner.
And it wasn't until I met areally inspiring trans woman who
(09:35):
lives her life every dayauthentically at such a young
age.
That inspired me to be like whycan't I go do that?
Why can't I be authentic withinmyself and reflecting on it now
?
Now I guess it's a life lessonthat I had to learn and like go
along in my journey.
But I'm happy now and I've donea lot of internal work and
acceptance and I'm just here tolive my life yeah, everyone's
(09:58):
gonna have to get on board Ilove that good for you, honestly
.
Joey (10:02):
That's so empowering to hear it's very nice, just like
appreciate somebody else'sjourney and like see that within
yourself, like it's not all thesame, but just knowing that
there's other people, and likebuilding that community around
you and like there's other gaypeople, there's other queer
people, and just like totally begay right and I feel like,
(10:24):
talking from this internalizedhomophobia standpoint, from my
experience, like I've mentionedbefore, I isolated myself from
the community and like fromother queer people, because I
was scared that it would put meinto a category and a box that I
wasn't ready to be in yet orcategorized as so I really
isolated myself and I think,growing up in those development
(10:46):
years, I was scared to be a partof the queer community and and,
like you know, go to gay clubsand do all all the fun stuff,
because I was scared that I'dget hit on or I'd be scared that
I'd, you know, fall in lovewith a man, truly, and I wasn't
ready to be there yet.
And I feel that looking back,like as you're talking about
(11:08):
life lessons for you, likethat's definitely like something
that I would look back andteach myself is like don't be so
scared, like just go and liketheir sexual orientation
shouldn't matter, like you knowwho you hang out with and stuff.
And this internalizedhomophobia had me so secluded
from this community that Ishould have lent on for support,
(11:28):
because look at where I amtoday and realizing how far I've
come to, I feel like, yeah,like it's listening to you talk
about a certain someone who I doknow.
Um I mean it's pretty cool yeah,that's so nice, it's so awesome
to hear honestly like it waslike very refreshing.
Brandon (11:45):
Thanks for sharing that yeah, you want to know
something funny go on when Ifirst started in the gay
community and I was sneaking myway into the gay bar at the very
young age of 16, which I shouldnot have been I was terrified
of drag queens, which is they'reall my friends now, but I
remember walking in and I waslike oh my god, that's a man in
a wig or a person in a wig and Ijust like I could not.
(12:07):
I was like what are they doing?
What do you mean?
And now I'm so inspired by allof them and they're just
authenticity to like give aperformance and wanting to be
themselves and like standing upfor other people and I'm like
how could I, at 16, been soafraid of someone being so
themselves?
Joey (12:22):
oh, I love that.
That's so beautiful and yeah, Iknow you're right and the
creativity and like how far thatour communities come and like
um accepting oh, I love that,that's awesome.
And you, you are like I feellike you're like the drag queen
leader here at vancouver, like Ifeel like you know everyone in
the city I'm just the biggestdrag queen fan now and it's just
(12:43):
so funny for me to look backand be like what the hell were
you thinking?
now you love them all okay, sofor the nitty-gritty questions
and getting into the real stuffthe juicy tea the raw tea.
Um, okay, I want to know umabout your first experience, um
(13:07):
with a man like same sex, like,talk to me about that, like I.
I can see you smiling, I canhear you smiling oh god, I
remember it like it wasyesterday.
Brandon (13:17):
Um.
So I was in grade nine and Ihad this friend who was already
in the high school that I wasgoing to be going to, and he had
messaged me and he was like hey, are you trying out for the
performing visual arts program?
I was like I don't know, maybeare you in it straight away.
Joey (13:31):
He's like a theater boy coming in transfer.
I was like okay.
Brandon (13:36):
So we ended up like texting every day and then he
was like do you want to?
Hang out, so we started hangingout.
He had a car like he was older.
I hadn't learned how to driveyet and I was like, oh my god,
this is so much fun.
Um.
So one day he had picked me upfrom my house and we had went to
the park called griffith woods,which if you're not from
calgary it's like the forestarea, so it's very secluded.
(13:57):
And we had we're walking downthe trail and he's like, oh,
come over here.
And we found this like secludedlittle area where we laid down
on the grass.
And then one thing led toanother and suddenly I had my
first dick in my hand and I waslike, what do I do with this?
Joey (14:11):
Yeah, there it is.
Brandon (14:13):
And like this might be a little TMI.
So sorry parents, if you'relistening, but I am circumcised
and he was not, and I hadn'tseen one before before and I was
like, oh my god, this is somuch fun to play with.
Joey (14:26):
Yeah, and, honestly, you know what's funny?
We were just talking about this, but, um, like off the mic.
We were talking about, like,how different dicks are oh my
god, there's a wide like,obviously I know that that
sounds so dumb saying it outloud, but like, especially when
you see your first dick too,you're like oh, I have one that
doesn't look like mine.
So like, what do I do with thisone?
Brandon (14:45):
or you know, oh my god yeah I remember being so nervous
I was like it's just extra skinat the end of the day and it's
fun to play with.
But I was like, oh my god, howdo I?
Handle this like am I doing itright?
And I remember there just beingso much pressure, but like
we're also in high school, solike nobody really cares, you're
just having fun.
Joey (15:03):
So was this guy out like?
Was he gay or?
Brandon (15:06):
yeah, I don't know if he was out with his family, but
like he was in the theaterprogram like I'm pretty sure he
was out within school it screamsyeah, but what's funny is I
don't think we made it past thesummer, so then when I started
going to the high school, weweren't speaking anymore.
We would see each other in thehallway and be like yeah, the
hair flip yeah, always we can'tsee it but always known for a
(15:30):
dramatic hair flip, wouldn't Ilove that yeah, and then one
very interesting first timeexperience this is when I like
lost my real virginity is wewant me and my best friend
download a grinder and we justfigured out what it was from
this British TV show.
Joey (15:46):
Grindr.
Oh okay, they should sponsorthis podcast at this point.
I'm like there's going to be alot of features of Grindr, so
I'm like ugh, pay us.
Brandon (15:55):
But we didn't have iPhones back then.
I had a BlackBerry, so I had aniPod Touch, so we created an
account together.
Joey (16:01):
Wait, they only released the app for iPhone.
Brandon (16:03):
Yeah, like Blackberry didn't have.
Joey (16:05):
Oh, I didn't know that.
Brandon (16:10):
I mean Android may have had a thing back then, but
nobody has Android.
Joey (16:13):
Sorry, yeah, we're not trying to seclude you out, but
if your messages don't turn blue, and then I'm not replying.
Brandon (16:20):
Very odd, sorry.
So we had an account together,because that's what best friends
apparently do, but everybodythought we were dating because
you know couples on grindertogether.
So a couple had messaged us andwe had no business going over
there at the age of 15 and 17 sowas the profile, like both of
you like.
Oh I see, I see it was like adual little like frenzy pic like
(16:42):
a selfie, and of course that'swhat couples do, but we had no
idea.
Joey (16:45):
It's our first time on Grindr.
How old were you?
Brandon (16:48):
I was 15 and he was 17.
So I was probably a little tooyoung to be doing what I was
doing.
Joey (16:54):
You were curious.
Brandon (16:55):
A little older than what I should have been playing
with, but that's fine.
So we ended up at their houseand then high-fived each other
and into the bed we went.
I love that.
Wait, did you go with your bestfriend?
Yeah, first time's a foursomebaby.
First time when there was, therewas four dicks including mine
well, you know yeah, it wasthere, it was there wild, it was
(17:18):
there um interesting, okay, umwhat?
It's speechless.
I want to be like what did youlearn from this?
But, um, to slow down and youdon't always need to go into the
room with the older man, yeahand I think that like that's
like I think maybe the elephantin the room here as well.
Joey (17:38):
Sometimes, like with grinder, I feel like just
because you're going to meet upwith someone doesn't mean that
you have to fuck them or like doanything with the vibes need to
be yes, and it's okay to sayyes, yes, yes, and like be like
sorry, I'm good, yeah absolutely, I agree.
I feel like, um, I've definitelybeen in a situation before
where I've met up with someonethat they didn't necessarily oh
this sounds awful to say outloud but like look like what
(18:00):
they perceived to look like itwas like old photos or misused
photos, or their age was likelied on their online profile or
whatever.
So I felt like I was welling myright to be like you know what.
This doesn't feel right and Idon't.
I don't think I want to goforward and like it was nice to
meet you, but unfortunately I'mgonna see myself out, kind of
(18:21):
thing I wish I would havelearned that at a younger age.
Brandon (18:24):
But I do remember when I started learning, like this
guy picked me up in a truck andI was like I need out, so I'm
gonna go, thank you, and Iwalked home.
I was like your body, yourchoice yeah, absolutely good for
you, right yeah empowerment.
Joey (18:36):
Yeah, you should have been like.
Actually, can you drop me offat home first, please?
Brandon (18:39):
yeah can you actually turn around?
You're like I don't want towalk.
No, I literally was like Idon't care, I just need out of
this vehicle.
Joey (18:44):
You're not who you said you were fair, that's totally
fair being gay is so funhonestly, yeah, like I guess,
like online dating, that's likeI suppose that's like
potentially could happen withanyone like you know, in any
coupling situation, likestraight gay, like you know so,
but I feel like it happens moreso on grinder and like in the
(19:08):
gay world, just because I feellike so many people get away
with it and they or they'rehiding their identity for
whatever reason, and that'stotally okay oh yeah.
Non-gays oh yeah but, but we'veall been there I'm sure there's
a few at our work.
Brandon (19:23):
Your work oh yeah, you left me.
Joey (19:27):
Let's talk about what pride means to you, and I'll let
you decipher that question howyou wish to take it.
Brandon (19:42):
So what does pride mean to you?
Thinking about it now, and likebeing an adult, it's definitely
a lot more wholesome than whenI was in my younger 20s.
When I was in my younger 20s,pride was just a party.
It was somewhere to do illicitthings and meet random men that
I wanted to do things with.
Um like almost like an excuse,like a like just an excuse, to
(20:02):
be like blackout wasted for fourdays, drugs in your pocket,
douche in your back pack, readyfor anything that comes your way
prepared yeah, I had thislittle backpack during pride
when I was younger and in it Iwould carry like a screw top
douche nozzle that you couldstick on any standard size water
bottle.
I'd have my prep uh toothbrushand a pack of gum and deodorant,
(20:25):
because you never knew whereyou were gonna end up that is
the gay travel pack yeah, it waslike wait what?
Joey (20:30):
there's?
A douche nozzle that you canput on.
Brandon (20:32):
Yeah, you can order it off of amazon and it just like
screws on top of like a tasaniwater bottle.
So like you would be like, oh,I'm going to this guy's house,
I'm going to stop off at7-eleven, go to starbucks, use
their bathroom yeah, repyourself, get ready it's always
the cleanest and the peoplethere like aren't gonna be, like
oh, you need a code to get in,because it's nine dollars for a
coffee.
So yeah, and like usually Iwould get one.
(20:52):
So coffee do shreddy go?
Nowadays I kind of look atpride as like spending time with
my community and like the queerpeople that I love.
Obviously there's like a lot ofdrag influence in my life so I
like to go to their shows andlike show my community and like
the queer people that I love.
Obviously there's like a lot ofdrag influence in my life so I
like to go to their shows andlike show my support and like
I'm not really a big parade fan,I think it's kind of like
(21:13):
rainbow washing, like I don'tneed td bank throwing their
pride pins at me because for the11 or 11 months like I don't
get a discounted rate.
Like where's my gay rate?
Joey (21:22):
literally uh hello, I want to open a savings account, um,
give me the gay rate like youwant to give back to the
community.
Brandon (21:29):
Lower that interest on that credit card.
Joey (21:30):
Boo-boo, I don't want that damn rainbow instead they're
like dming you being like you'vereached your account ballot
limit and you're like excuse me,I'm gay they're like you're an
overdraft.
Brandon (21:40):
I'm like I live in vancouver and I'm gay.
Where's that discount?
Joey (21:43):
literally I'm like I saw you in july or august or
whatever.
The gay pride in vancouver it'sin august.
Brandon (21:48):
Yeah, I saw you where were you when I needed you?
Huh or bell mobility likewhere's my discount for being
gay?
Where's my 10 off?
Joey (21:55):
true, we're talking about that.
I saw the rogers kind of takingover the rogers, canada kind of
like yeah, they took over shawyeah, but but they had such a
big presence at Pride, did theyyeah?
Brandon (22:09):
I was at the parade festival.
I was at the very tail end.
Joey (22:12):
I was collecting the badges, the free badges.
Brandon (22:14):
Yeah, and what's that doing for you now?
Joey (22:17):
I got no discount codes.
I mean I think it's a good wayto be inclusive in the city and
to bring people together.
Do I agree?
Rainbow Washing?
I would probably say yes, inthe sense that these larger
companies that can afford to bein the Pride Parade because you
have to pay.
Did you know that?
Brandon (22:38):
Yeah, but why are we having companies pay to be in
the Pride Parade?
I guess it pays for the events.
Joey (22:42):
But I guess.
So I think the money goestowards especially incouver.
It goes uh, I'm gonnainappropriately speak, I don't
know actually who it goes to.
Brandon (22:50):
I can't remember yeah, we should probably google that
before we.
Joey (22:53):
Well, I think it goes to like I think it goes like
vancouver pride society orsomething like, something very
similar to that.
It's like it's governmentdriven, like and you know
there's a lot of events andstuff that they do, but it
doesn't go to charity.
It doesn't go for like research, for, like you know, prep or,
like you know, health care for,like gay men or, you know, maybe
, the him clinic him.
Brandon (23:12):
Is that right him?
Joey (23:13):
yeah, yeah, capital him is gaga that's right, um, I have a
funny story about them one timeand I'm gonna share it.
It's do it.
It's oh god, it's gonna out themso bad, but one day I'll share
that it's you're not gonna giveme the tea now I went and within
the him clinic in vancouver orlike I don't know where they're
(23:36):
like canadian wide, but the thepurpose of the clinic is to go
and be tested should you havehad like uh any like same sex or
activity, I guess like sexualactivity, and they can like give
you drugs or whatever you mightneed, like you know, if you
have like infection or if youwant to like research on, like
(23:57):
prep and, like you know, try andstay safe.
They also like about freecondoms and a bunch of a bunch
of stuff.
But there's a lot more to theclinic than that.
I'm just that's very surfacelevel.
Um, for the use that I neededit for, I had unprotected,
unprotected sex with uh a manthat I wanted to go and make
sure that I was, you know, clean.
Brandon (24:16):
Still, I shouldn't say that word, that's wrong that's a
very old school term but, likeyou, just wanted to make sure
that you were safe yes, that Ihadn't contracted any viruses
stis why am I so?
I get my walker right now.
I am 90 and it's coming outokay.
Joey (24:35):
So yeah, I wanted to make sure that I I had no, had not
contracted any stis from thispotential partner.
So I went and they were like,oh, like I run online that you
didn't have to use your name andyou can go like pretty much
anonymous they don't ask for ahealth care card or anything.
And so, yeah, I was yeah.
(24:57):
And, coming from England, Ididn't have a health care number
.
So I saw an opportunity to goand get free health care,
because if I went to my local GPthey would bill me as an
international person, plus allthe medications, you know, lab
fees, all that on top, whereasthe HIM clinic would cover that
for me as, I guess, anonymous, Idon't really know where the
(25:18):
funding comes from maybe it'sthat parade that we were just
bashing.
I hope so.
I hope they get something fromit.
Brandon (25:26):
I'm sure they get funding somewhere.
Joey (25:27):
They have to well, so I went there and then I did all
the testing which obviouslycosts a lot of money for like
life labs and like the bloodtesting and all that stuff and
they have to send all like theHIV testing off.
It's like Ontario and stuff.
So I know there's a lot of costincurred with that, or incurred
or encountered.
Brandon (25:48):
You know I think I'm dyslexic or just fucking stupid,
but so english language is hardit's the hardest language in
the world have you ever tried tolearn like any type of chinese,
because that looks so hard tome but wait, I actually heard
that english is the hardestmaybe I'm just being naive, I
don't know that's probably likea white.
(26:09):
I tried to learn spanish onceand I had to drop out of that
elective.
Joey (26:13):
I could speak Spanish, but I forgot Hola.
No, it's hola.
Brandon (26:18):
That's no, you're a hola, oh.
Joey (26:23):
Okay, but the purpose of this story was that I got
treatment from them, or should Isay I got got, you know,
screened by them and then, um, Ididn't end up needing any
medication or anything.
I turned out I was, uh, clearof any stis, which is I was very
grateful of, but what, uh whatdid happen three months later
(26:45):
was life labs called me with abell?
oh no, I know the collectionsyeah, literally, and it was a
hefty bill and I was like, do welive in america like that?
That doesn't have the price tagon it, honey.
And I at first I was like I'lljust fucking pay it.
And then I was like, actuallywait a minute.
(27:06):
I didn't give my personalhealth number, so how did they
link this to me from thisappointment?
And they had found me in, like,the system because I gave my
real name and my date of realdate of birth.
I guess they had found me inthe system and like I just
thought, oh, it's this gay manhere, let's charge him
international person so I Ifreaked out and I was like, is
(27:27):
this supposed to be an anonymousservice?
and I didn't give my personalhealth care number and, like you
know, the the clinic I wentthrough, you know, reassured me
that I wouldn't have anything topay and that I, this is
anonymous and this is like youknow.
And then they, they were likereally like upset on the phone
like life labs, and they werelike, oh, like we're really
sorry.
And I was like, no, because if,like, I actually was maybe not
(27:54):
out and say you called me and Iwas a husband with two kids and
the wife in the car.
And I pick up the phone andyou're like these are your test
results and your overdue lifelabs bill that you owe.
And I'm like, could you?
Brandon (28:06):
imagine that would be life-changing to somebody.
Joey (28:08):
That's shocking well because when I answered the
phone I was on loudspeaker in mycar and thankfully no one was
there to know that my testresults were due, pending and
that I had to pay for my lifelabs bill.
But at the time I was like,like I said, like if this
scenario was different, that's,you can't just go hunting people
down that have come to you inconfidence not in 2024 no honey.
(28:32):
Anyways, I hope the pride, thepride parade, pays for their
funding, or something I'm verycurious where they get their
funding now.
Brandon (28:38):
It is usually a very good place to go.
Joey (28:40):
That's where I get my prep from, so okay, well, talk to me
about prep real quick, becauseI'm I've never used the product
and I I would love to know moreand if you could educate me on
that.
Brandon (28:52):
PrEP is a little blue pill that I take every day to
make me 99.9% immune to gettingHIV, which then turns into AIDS.
The reason I chose to be onPrEP is I don't hook up all that
often with other men, but whatI like about it is if I can be a
part of the solution tostopping the spread of aids,
(29:12):
then I feel like, as a gayperson, like I've made kind of a
difference because of all thepeople that have unfortunately
passed away.
If I have access to thismedication and say I have the
ability to be a part of thesolution, why not?
But that's my own personalchoice.
I know medication isn't foreverybody and condoms are just
effective, so so do yourresearch.
Joey (29:34):
Make the right choice for yourself like I know you're not
a doctor, but like what does thepill actually do?
Like it, does it preventcontracting the disease or does
it kill it, or like say if itenters your body, it like kills
it, it like doesn't.
Brandon (29:45):
I could be completely wrong, but from what I know is
it like stops it from developinginto hiv okay but most people
now who have hiv and are on theproper medication, they have
what is called beingundetectable, so they can't even
transmit it to you.
So there's positive, there'spositive undetectable.
Lots of different statuses thatyou can have, and just being
(30:07):
educated on the different onesis very smart yeah, I agree.
Joey (30:12):
Um, thanks for sharing that.
I, like I said, I've never usedum prep before.
I'm going to be oblivious hereand say that I don't think that
it's big in europe and I don't.
I think it was when I when,maybe when I moved here it was
like dribburyases or something.
Brandon (30:29):
It's like a new product that they're kind of like
distributing it was very much solike gatekeeped by the patent
that it was under.
It was very big in California.
Eventually they lost like thepatent to it so they could make
a generic version, which is whatblew up in Canada.
There's lots of differentprograms that offer it for free
Canada-wide.
Everybody is included.
(30:50):
You don't just have to be a gayman.
I know a lot of sex workers whoare female who have to again.
They're terrified of gettingHIV as well who are allowed to
be on it.
It's for everybody, but for gaymen specifically there's lots of
local programs.
In Alberta it's Freddie.
They operate through differentprovinces In here in BC I go
(31:11):
through him.
So lots of different clinics,lots of different options.
But they also have a new drugcalled Doxy.
Have you heard of that?
Joey (31:18):
No Doxypep.
Brandon (31:19):
So you can take it after you have sex with people
and it's a drug that stops, likesyphilis or chlamydia gonorrhea
.
Joey (31:27):
I just did some research for the vancouver pride uh
society and it just says thatthey have corporate sponsors and
it says that they're gratefulof the sponsor support of many
businesses and organizations.
And then find out how you cansupport, oh there's td bank yeah
, nice to know their pins, don'tjust?
Brandon (31:42):
mean pins.
They are putting their moneywhere their mouth is oh and
condoms.
They're a gold sponsor umhonestly, I've never paid for
condoms before, because everyclinic I've been to offers them
and at parades they're thrown atyou.
Joey (31:56):
So I mean, yeah, I agree, no, yeah, they're, they are they
are thrown at you, but you knowwhat be gay condoms safe sex is
important, but it is funny howlike you see like kids walking
around with like condoms off thestreet and I'm like let me put
that down that's not a waterballoon, you don't need that,
yeah, or like you see them alllike blown up on the street,
because like we're kids and likepeople just open condoms and
(32:17):
blow them up and like throwingdown the street does that happen
or yes?
yeah, I've seen that okay, Ithought it was just like making
shit up, but I was like I'mpretty sure I've seen like the
balloon elephants of the condomsgoing down the street I've
never seen it in the shape of aballoon elephant, but I've
definitely seen balloons thatwere condoms just blown in the
wind and you're like, oh, it waspride last week so that makes
sense.
Literally all the foils on thefloor.
Brandon (32:37):
I'm like crack or directs question mark oh,
depends what neighborhood you'rein, yours maybe, oh I'm moving,
okay, I like it over here.
It's cute like your apartment,your apartment.
Joey (32:49):
My apartment's nice, but my neighborhood delicate.
Brandon (32:54):
Delicate, that's a good word to put it, it's a delicate
neighborhood.
Joey (32:58):
Okay, so for our last question, I want to know, after
all your experiences and lifelessons and what you've been
through and talking to us today,what advice would you give
someone that may be strugglingto come out, or, um, that might
be someone that's struggling toaddress their feelings, um,
towards same-sex relationship?
Brandon (33:22):
my best piece of advice , and this is just based off of
my own personal experience.
But having at least one friendthat like is your best friend,
that you're very close with andyou can be open and honest with,
is, like, the key to mysurvival.
I wouldn't be here if it wasn'tfor this, like certain people
in certain phases in my life andtheir lifelong friends, who
(33:43):
have given me nothing but loveand support.
But without them and theirinspiration and just like their
ear to listen, I wouldn't bewhere I am.
So find that person, find whoyou, their inspiration and just
like their ear to listen, Iwouldn't be where I am.
So find that person, find whoyou can trust and just be open
and honest with them andhopefully they can be open and
honest back and you'll justbuild like a small little
community for yourself andhopefully that's enough to make
(34:04):
you feel confident in who youare.
And it's okay to be afraid Iwish more people said that but
it's okay to be afraid of beingdifferent.
But you'll get through it.
Every day is a new journey andjust because you have one bad
day doesn't mean the rest willbe, so keep going oh no no, that
(34:25):
was really sweet.
Joey (34:26):
That was, um, it's, it's.
It's crazy that when I firethese questions at you, like
it's, it's a very raw responseand um, it's, it's crazy like
where you pull it from.
You know, like as you talkabout your experiences and
growing up and stuff, it's crazylike where we pull these
answers from in these questions.
(34:49):
And I was just saying you know,off mic, I was like it's very
it's raw, like it's it comes outof you and like you listening
to you talk about, like, yourexperiences, it's very
validating for me to hear tooand like that there's
similarities in our stories andyou know, listening to you talk
about your experience and yourupbringing and you know
everything that you've learned,like there's a lot of value
(35:10):
there and it holds a lot ofvalue.
So I think talking about thison the podcast and having people
listen and hopefully youinspire someone and empower
someone to be confident in whothey are and make the decisions
they want to make, and well,thank you, you're so sweet I'm
happy you came in and then wecould chat um.
I'd love to have you in thefuture.
Brandon (35:31):
I'm always happy to come back.
I'm always happy to have alittle chat with you.
Thank you for having me.
This has been so much fun.
You're welcome A little deepdive into a little pocket of my
life.
Joey (35:41):
Yeah, honestly, it's very inspiring, very proud of you.
Brandon (35:44):
I'm very proud of you and this podcast, so thank you,
thank you.
Joey (35:54):
Oh, you cast, so thank you , thank you.
Brandon (35:56):
Oh, you're so cute thank you for listening.
Joey (35:57):
Um, always tune in every wednesday for a new episode and
be gay, honey.
I'm not gay, you are, that'sright baby.
Welcome to our episode three of I'm Not Gay.
You Are with your host, Joey,that is me.
Today we have Brandon, one ofmy really good friends.
I'd love to introduce you.
Say hi to the people.
Brandon (00:25):
Hello everybody.
How's everyone doing today?
Joey (00:28):
Tell us a little bit about yourself, how we met, and we're
going to get into your story alittle bit.
Brandon (00:35):
A little bit about me.
I am a Taurus Gemini, risingCapricorn moon, so do with that
what you will.
We met at a lovely restaurantthat we worked at together we
shall not say their name no, youleft me there it's very sad,
but we will continue on me andbrandon have.
Joey (00:52):
We share like the same kind of communicative, like
friendship and like lifestyle, Iguess.
So it was super easy for us tolike hit it off when I first met
brandon, and I am so honoredfor him to be the first guest on
our podcast because I feel likehe's got such good life
experiences, um, which he'sgoing to share with us, and the
way he communicates is like mylanguage too, so I'm super
(01:15):
stoked, I think it's going to bereally fun and I feel like,
yeah, you're so sweet.
Brandon (01:20):
Thank you, this will be fun thanks for being here.
I can't wait.
Joey (01:24):
Our first topic and point today is we want to know your
coming out story.
So you know how old were youwhen you, you know, realized
that you wanted to be with men?
Or you know how early on didyou realize that you were gay,
and how did that?
You know, unfold, and who didyou tell first and you know how
did that.
You know unfold, and who didyou tell first and you know how
(01:46):
did it feel to to.
Brandon (01:48):
You know, come out so we're gonna take it way back
when I was in grade two, I think, and I never knew what it meant
.
But there was this one olderguy when I say older, I think he
was like in grade five and Iwas like, oh my god, who's that?
Never knew what it meant andlike moved on with my life.
And then in junior high I keptgetting that, oh my god, you're
(02:08):
gay, just be gay already.
We all know that you're gay.
But I, of course, didn't acceptthat in myself or really like
acknowledge it, until in gradenine I turned the corner and
there was this beautiful boythat had returned from grade two
and I looked around and I waslike, oh my god, I think I like
dudes oh, it wasn't the foreignexchange student that came in.
They were like oh, no, it wasjust a sweet little homely boy
(02:33):
that I had met in grade two andthen he came back and I like
turned around the corner and Iwas like, oh my god, you again
do you?
Joey (02:39):
do you know if he identifies as gay too?
Brandon (02:42):
no, he's very straight, very christian, very religious
views.
Joey (02:47):
I guess that walks straight into your type.
Now then huh.
Brandon (02:49):
Yeah, I've got a little problem here with me and my
straights, but that's fine.
You know, we all grow up andmove on.
Yeah, so I remember talking tomy best friend at the time.
She was this girl that was alsosuper religious, but very
accepting and kind of like,helped me get through it.
Joey (03:04):
Okay.
Brandon (03:07):
So it was also super religious but very accepting and
kind of like, helped me getthrough it.
Okay, so in school I had comeout in grade nine and then in
grade 10, I had met my gay bestfriend and that's when my
parents started being like hey,we have some questions for you.
So one day they texted me andthey were like we're going to
have a family meeting andimmediately I knew I was like,
oh my God, they're about to askme the question I don't want to
answer.
You knew, yeah, I knew rightaway and I texted all my friends
.
I was like, oh my God, it'shappening, I'm getting sat down,
(03:27):
what do I do?
And they were like, just behonest and go with it.
So then, that's the day I cameout.
I really honestly think it wasbecause of the time of Glee was
really big.
Joey (03:46):
So then they were like oh, and wants to be with the girls
all the time.
But you had, like when, like inmy episode when I was telling
the podcast about you know mykind of experience, mine was, I
was very, you know, surroundedby like a lot of women and like
I, I didn't really play withbarbie, so you had like the uno
reverso of experiences for me.
But yet here we are, two gayhave, like you know, the same
kind of views and values andlike so I feel like, yeah, like
(04:12):
tell me, like you know how, likewho was your best friend?
Like you know you you'dmentioned to me that you know it
was more.
Brandon (04:20):
You were surrounded by like masculine, like influences
and like yeah, so growing up itwas me and my dad um, my parents
had split when I was younger,so my dad had tried everything
like let's get him into sports,let's get him into taekwondo,
and of course that was not wheremy interests were not taekwondo
yeah, like karate you name it,I was.
Joey (04:39):
Tell me what belt you got.
I was white.
Brandon (04:41):
I quit yeah, they started hitting me with a bamboo
stick and I was like lynn, getme out of here 100.
Joey (04:47):
I was like this is not from, that's my dad.
Oh, okay, when I get angry.
Brandon (04:50):
I'm like lynn, get me out of here oh cute so he really
did try.
He's such a guy's guy and I'msuch a girl's girl yeah that
like it.
Just it never really clickedand I think that was probably
maybe a like interesting pointin our relationship is he kept
trying to be like baseballhockey do this and I'm just not
that.
(05:11):
So I wasn't very close with mymother at the time because we
had separation so I didn't havelike a lot of strong female
influences until I startedhaving my girlfriends.
And then when I had mygirlfriends, my dad was like why
are you trying to ask to sleepover at a girl's house?
You're a boy and I'm like butI'm a girl's girl babe.
Yeah, they don't get it, no,they don't.
But all of my friend's parentswere like we're not worried
(05:33):
about Brandon, and my dadobviously just wasn't paying
attention at the time that I wastrying to play with.
Joey (05:39):
I mean that's awesome, though, like I said, it's such a
different outlook and adifferent upbringing from me.
I guess you were thrown intosports.
Literally thrown, literally Ipulled out my inhaler every time
and I was like oh, asthma, no,thank you.
Brandon (05:55):
I can't run.
I've got asthma.
Joey (05:58):
For my next question nature versus nurture and what
your experience and yourpersonal experiences how do you
feel like that affected you?
Do you feel like you were borngay or do you feel like you were
nurtured into being gay?
Do you think it's like ahandful of of things, what like?
(06:19):
What's your opinion there?
Brandon (06:20):
I think I was definitely born to be gay.
I am, against all odds, likebeing raised by my dad, like
he's very redneck and he liketried to have that masculine son
, but like my personality isjust a flamboyant little
homosexual man that wanted tojust be who I was and I think
that was part of my dad'sjourney is maybe he had a lot of
(06:41):
like masculine things about himand he had to learn to accept a
little bit of feminine sidestoo, right, yeah, okay, that's
fair.
Joey (06:50):
I like that.
Um, so you would say you wereborn this way and it was
nature's way yeah, as much asthey tried to nurture it right
out of me as much as thetaekwondo yeah, and the hockey
sticks tried it was not thestick I was interested in.
Yeah, it was not honey and notthe ice skates that you wanted
to wear no, I wanted to be thefigure skater actually.
(07:13):
No, I'm terrible, I could seeit.
I don't know why.
Brandon (07:15):
I could see you figure skating no, my god, I look like
pambi on ice.
My best friend is a figureskater and she's talented and I
just look like wretched.
Just like who put the old ladyon the ice.
Joey (07:27):
Take her off you've got like that little um, that zimmer
frame that they give to thekids when they like get on the
ice and like you have to likepush oh, that looks like a
walker.
Yeah, literally nana on icethey call it a zimmer frame in
england.
I guess it is called a walkerhere.
Brandon (07:41):
That's so funny oh yeah , because you grew up across the
pond I did.
Joey (07:44):
yeah, and I feel like with this podcast as well, there's
so many different users thatlike our listeners that listen
to it, and it's hard for me todirect my vocab to like one
audience because I'm I live hereso I know the canadian slang
and north american terms, butthen I quickly, while when I'm
talking, I can have to likedissect it for my British
(08:06):
listeners.
So I'm like, oh well, You'rejust so worldly.
I just what can you say, You're?
Brandon (08:12):
just going to go with that.
Joey (08:13):
Maybe I'll translate into Spanish as well, and hit a new
market.
Brandon (08:17):
Hit a new market.
Oh my God, pass you.
Joey (08:20):
Pass you.
That's so funny.
What struggles did you facewhen you were younger versus now
, and how do you overcome that?
And what have you learnedgrowing up?
Brandon (08:31):
Yeah, so I think when I was younger and being given
like just being with my dad andhaving to like be, like no, I
don't want hockey, no, I don'twant to do certain things, I
guess it was kind of a battle oflike internalized homophobia,
because I remember startinggrade 10 and like this is before
I was sat down and asked about,like are you gay or not?
(08:52):
Um, I had signed up for likeelectives such as auto body and
like reconstructing cars, whichwas interesting, and like a
skill.
I'm glad I learned, but that'snot where my passion is.
Like I look back at it and likenow that I'm in hair school and
like that's something I want togo forward with, that's
something that was offered in myhigh school.
Joey (09:09):
And I need to state right now your hair is beautiful.
Thank, you no one can see it,and that's the worst part.
Brandon (09:13):
Well, you know, it's on the Instagram.
You can hit follow, subscribe.
It's called Debra's mom.
Yeah, it's pretty fun, I love.
But I just wish that like Icould have had that like
internal reflection or maybelike a little bit more support
and I could have found mypassions a little bit sooner.
And it wasn't until I met areally inspiring trans woman who
(09:35):
lives her life every dayauthentically at such a young
age.
That inspired me to be like whycan't I go do that?
Why can't I be authentic withinmyself and reflecting on it now
?
Now I guess it's a life lessonthat I had to learn and like go
along in my journey.
But I'm happy now and I've donea lot of internal work and
acceptance and I'm just here tolive my life yeah, everyone's
(09:58):
gonna have to get on board Ilove that good for you, honestly
.
Joey (10:02):
That's so empowering to hear it's very nice, just like
appreciate somebody else'sjourney and like see that within
yourself, like it's not all thesame, but just knowing that
there's other people, and likebuilding that community around
you and like there's other gaypeople, there's other queer
people, and just like totally begay right and I feel like,
(10:24):
talking from this internalizedhomophobia standpoint, from my
experience, like I've mentionedbefore, I isolated myself from
the community and like fromother queer people, because I
was scared that it would put meinto a category and a box that I
wasn't ready to be in yet orcategorized as so I really
isolated myself and I think,growing up in those development
(10:46):
years, I was scared to be a partof the queer community and and,
like you know, go to gay clubsand do all all the fun stuff,
because I was scared that I'dget hit on or I'd be scared that
I'd, you know, fall in lovewith a man, truly, and I wasn't
ready to be there yet.
And I feel that looking back,like as you're talking about
(11:08):
life lessons for you, likethat's definitely like something
that I would look back andteach myself is like don't be so
scared, like just go and liketheir sexual orientation
shouldn't matter, like you knowwho you hang out with and stuff.
And this internalizedhomophobia had me so secluded
from this community that Ishould have lent on for support,
(11:28):
because look at where I amtoday and realizing how far I've
come to, I feel like, yeah,like it's listening to you talk
about a certain someone who I doknow.
Um I mean it's pretty cool yeah,that's so nice, it's so awesome
to hear honestly like it waslike very refreshing.
Brandon (11:45):
Thanks for sharing that yeah, you want to know
something funny go on when Ifirst started in the gay
community and I was sneaking myway into the gay bar at the very
young age of 16, which I shouldnot have been I was terrified
of drag queens, which is they'reall my friends now, but I
remember walking in and I waslike oh my god, that's a man in
a wig or a person in a wig and Ijust like I could not.
(12:07):
I was like what are they doing?
What do you mean?
And now I'm so inspired by allof them and they're just
authenticity to like give aperformance and wanting to be
themselves and like standing upfor other people and I'm like
how could I, at 16, been soafraid of someone being so
themselves?
Joey (12:22):
oh, I love that.
That's so beautiful and yeah, Iknow you're right and the
creativity and like how far thatour communities come and like
um accepting oh, I love that,that's awesome.
And you, you are like I feellike you're like the drag queen
leader here at vancouver, like Ifeel like you know everyone in
the city I'm just the biggestdrag queen fan now and it's just
(12:43):
so funny for me to look backand be like what the hell were
you thinking?
now you love them all okay, sofor the nitty-gritty questions
and getting into the real stuffthe juicy tea the raw tea.
Um, okay, I want to know umabout your first experience, um
(13:07):
with a man like same sex, like,talk to me about that, like I.
I can see you smiling, I canhear you smiling oh god, I
remember it like it wasyesterday.
Brandon (13:17):
Um.
So I was in grade nine and Ihad this friend who was already
in the high school that I wasgoing to be going to, and he had
messaged me and he was like hey, are you trying out for the
performing visual arts program?
I was like I don't know, maybeare you in it straight away.
Joey (13:31):
He's like a theater boy coming in transfer.
I was like okay.
Brandon (13:36):
So we ended up like texting every day and then he
was like do you want to?
Hang out, so we started hangingout.
He had a car like he was older.
I hadn't learned how to driveyet and I was like, oh my god,
this is so much fun.
Um.
So one day he had picked me upfrom my house and we had went to
the park called griffith woods,which if you're not from
calgary it's like the forestarea, so it's very secluded.
(13:57):
And we had we're walking downthe trail and he's like, oh,
come over here.
And we found this like secludedlittle area where we laid down
on the grass.
And then one thing led toanother and suddenly I had my
first dick in my hand and I waslike, what do I do with this?
Joey (14:11):
Yeah, there it is.
Brandon (14:13):
And like this might be a little TMI.
So sorry parents, if you'relistening, but I am circumcised
and he was not, and I hadn'tseen one before before and I was
like, oh my god, this is somuch fun to play with.
Joey (14:26):
Yeah, and, honestly, you know what's funny?
We were just talking about this, but, um, like off the mic.
We were talking about, like,how different dicks are oh my
god, there's a wide like,obviously I know that that
sounds so dumb saying it outloud, but like, especially when
you see your first dick too,you're like oh, I have one that
doesn't look like mine.
So like, what do I do with thisone?
Brandon (14:45):
or you know, oh my god yeah I remember being so nervous
I was like it's just extra skinat the end of the day and it's
fun to play with.
But I was like, oh my god, howdo I?
Handle this like am I doing itright?
And I remember there just beingso much pressure, but like
we're also in high school, solike nobody really cares, you're
just having fun.
Joey (15:03):
So was this guy out like?
Was he gay or?
Brandon (15:06):
yeah, I don't know if he was out with his family, but
like he was in the theaterprogram like I'm pretty sure he
was out within school it screamsyeah, but what's funny is I
don't think we made it past thesummer, so then when I started
going to the high school, weweren't speaking anymore.
We would see each other in thehallway and be like yeah, the
hair flip yeah, always we can'tsee it but always known for a
(15:30):
dramatic hair flip, wouldn't Ilove that yeah, and then one
very interesting first timeexperience this is when I like
lost my real virginity is wewant me and my best friend
download a grinder and we justfigured out what it was from
this British TV show.
Joey (15:46):
Grindr.
Oh okay, they should sponsorthis podcast at this point.
I'm like there's going to be alot of features of Grindr, so
I'm like ugh, pay us.
Brandon (15:55):
But we didn't have iPhones back then.
I had a BlackBerry, so I had aniPod Touch, so we created an
account together.
Joey (16:01):
Wait, they only released the app for iPhone.
Brandon (16:03):
Yeah, like Blackberry didn't have.
Joey (16:05):
Oh, I didn't know that.
Brandon (16:10):
I mean Android may have had a thing back then, but
nobody has Android.
Joey (16:13):
Sorry, yeah, we're not trying to seclude you out, but
if your messages don't turn blue, and then I'm not replying.
Brandon (16:20):
Very odd, sorry.
So we had an account together,because that's what best friends
apparently do, but everybodythought we were dating because
you know couples on grindertogether.
So a couple had messaged us andwe had no business going over
there at the age of 15 and 17 sowas the profile, like both of
you like.
Oh I see, I see it was like adual little like frenzy pic like
(16:42):
a selfie, and of course that'swhat couples do, but we had no
idea.
Joey (16:45):
It's our first time on Grindr.
How old were you?
Brandon (16:48):
I was 15 and he was 17.
So I was probably a little tooyoung to be doing what I was
doing.
Joey (16:54):
You were curious.
Brandon (16:55):
A little older than what I should have been playing
with, but that's fine.
So we ended up at their houseand then high-fived each other
and into the bed we went.
I love that.
Wait, did you go with your bestfriend?
Yeah, first time's a foursomebaby.
First time when there was, therewas four dicks including mine
well, you know yeah, it wasthere, it was there wild, it was
(17:18):
there um interesting, okay, umwhat?
It's speechless.
I want to be like what did youlearn from this?
But, um, to slow down and youdon't always need to go into the
room with the older man, yeahand I think that like that's
like I think maybe the elephantin the room here as well.
Joey (17:38):
Sometimes, like with grinder, I feel like just
because you're going to meet upwith someone doesn't mean that
you have to fuck them or like doanything with the vibes need to
be yes, and it's okay to sayyes, yes, yes, and like be like
sorry, I'm good, yeah absolutely, I agree.
I feel like, um, I've definitelybeen in a situation before
where I've met up with someonethat they didn't necessarily oh
this sounds awful to say outloud but like look like what
(18:00):
they perceived to look like itwas like old photos or misused
photos, or their age was likelied on their online profile or
whatever.
So I felt like I was welling myright to be like you know what.
This doesn't feel right and Idon't.
I don't think I want to goforward and like it was nice to
meet you, but unfortunately I'mgonna see myself out, kind of
(18:21):
thing I wish I would havelearned that at a younger age.
Brandon (18:24):
But I do remember when I started learning, like this
guy picked me up in a truck andI was like I need out, so I'm
gonna go, thank you, and Iwalked home.
I was like your body, yourchoice yeah, absolutely good for
you, right yeah empowerment.
Joey (18:36):
Yeah, you should have been like.
Actually, can you drop me offat home first, please?
Brandon (18:39):
yeah can you actually turn around?
You're like I don't want towalk.
No, I literally was like Idon't care, I just need out of
this vehicle.
Joey (18:44):
You're not who you said you were fair, that's totally
fair being gay is so funhonestly, yeah, like I guess,
like online dating, that's likeI suppose that's like
potentially could happen withanyone like you know, in any
coupling situation, likestraight gay, like you know so,
but I feel like it happens moreso on grinder and like in the
(19:08):
gay world, just because I feellike so many people get away
with it and they or they'rehiding their identity for
whatever reason, and that'stotally okay oh yeah.
Non-gays oh yeah but, but we'veall been there I'm sure there's
a few at our work.
Brandon (19:23):
Your work oh yeah, you left me.
Joey (19:27):
Let's talk about what pride means to you, and I'll let
you decipher that question howyou wish to take it.
Brandon (19:42):
So what does pride mean to you?
Thinking about it now, and likebeing an adult, it's definitely
a lot more wholesome than whenI was in my younger 20s.
When I was in my younger 20s,pride was just a party.
It was somewhere to do illicitthings and meet random men that
I wanted to do things with.
Um like almost like an excuse,like a like just an excuse, to
(20:02):
be like blackout wasted for fourdays, drugs in your pocket,
douche in your back pack, readyfor anything that comes your way
prepared yeah, I had thislittle backpack during pride
when I was younger and in it Iwould carry like a screw top
douche nozzle that you couldstick on any standard size water
bottle.
I'd have my prep uh toothbrushand a pack of gum and deodorant,
(20:25):
because you never knew whereyou were gonna end up that is
the gay travel pack yeah, it waslike wait what?
Joey (20:30):
there's?
A douche nozzle that you canput on.
Brandon (20:32):
Yeah, you can order it off of amazon and it just like
screws on top of like a tasaniwater bottle.
So like you would be like, oh,I'm going to this guy's house,
I'm going to stop off at7-eleven, go to starbucks, use
their bathroom yeah, repyourself, get ready it's always
the cleanest and the peoplethere like aren't gonna be, like
oh, you need a code to get in,because it's nine dollars for a
coffee.
So yeah, and like usually Iwould get one.
(20:52):
So coffee do shreddy go?
Nowadays I kind of look atpride as like spending time with
my community and like the queerpeople that I love.
Obviously there's like a lot ofdrag influence in my life so I
like to go to their shows andlike show my community and like
the queer people that I love.
Obviously there's like a lot ofdrag influence in my life so I
like to go to their shows andlike show my support and like
I'm not really a big parade fan,I think it's kind of like
(21:13):
rainbow washing, like I don'tneed td bank throwing their
pride pins at me because for the11 or 11 months like I don't
get a discounted rate.
Like where's my gay rate?
Joey (21:22):
literally uh hello, I want to open a savings account, um,
give me the gay rate like youwant to give back to the
community.
Brandon (21:29):
Lower that interest on that credit card.
Joey (21:30):
Boo-boo, I don't want that damn rainbow instead they're
like dming you being like you'vereached your account ballot
limit and you're like excuse me,I'm gay they're like you're an
overdraft.
Brandon (21:40):
I'm like I live in vancouver and I'm gay.
Where's that discount?
Joey (21:43):
literally I'm like I saw you in july or august or
whatever.
The gay pride in vancouver it'sin august.
Brandon (21:48):
Yeah, I saw you where were you when I needed you?
Huh or bell mobility likewhere's my discount for being
gay?
Where's my 10 off?
Joey (21:55):
true, we're talking about that.
I saw the rogers kind of takingover the rogers, canada kind of
like yeah, they took over shawyeah, but but they had such a
big presence at Pride, did theyyeah?
Brandon (22:09):
I was at the parade festival.
I was at the very tail end.
Joey (22:12):
I was collecting the badges, the free badges.
Brandon (22:14):
Yeah, and what's that doing for you now?
Joey (22:17):
I got no discount codes.
I mean I think it's a good wayto be inclusive in the city and
to bring people together.
Do I agree?
Rainbow Washing?
I would probably say yes, inthe sense that these larger
companies that can afford to bein the Pride Parade because you
have to pay.
Did you know that?
Brandon (22:38):
Yeah, but why are we having companies pay to be in
the Pride Parade?
I guess it pays for the events.
Joey (22:42):
But I guess.
So I think the money goestowards especially incouver.
It goes uh, I'm gonnainappropriately speak, I don't
know actually who it goes to.
Brandon (22:50):
I can't remember yeah, we should probably google that
before we.
Joey (22:53):
Well, I think it goes to like I think it goes like
vancouver pride society orsomething like, something very
similar to that.
It's like it's governmentdriven, like and you know
there's a lot of events andstuff that they do, but it
doesn't go to charity.
It doesn't go for like research, for, like you know, prep or,
like you know, health care for,like gay men or, you know, maybe
, the him clinic him.
Brandon (23:12):
Is that right him?
Joey (23:13):
yeah, yeah, capital him is gaga that's right, um, I have a
funny story about them one timeand I'm gonna share it.
It's do it.
It's oh god, it's gonna out themso bad, but one day I'll share
that it's you're not gonna giveme the tea now I went and within
the him clinic in vancouver orlike I don't know where they're
(23:36):
like canadian wide, but the thepurpose of the clinic is to go
and be tested should you havehad like uh any like same sex or
activity, I guess like sexualactivity, and they can like give
you drugs or whatever you mightneed, like you know, if you
have like infection or if youwant to like research on, like
(23:57):
prep and, like you know, try andstay safe.
They also like about freecondoms and a bunch of a bunch
of stuff.
But there's a lot more to theclinic than that.
I'm just that's very surfacelevel.
Um, for the use that I neededit for, I had unprotected,
unprotected sex with uh a manthat I wanted to go and make
sure that I was, you know, clean.
Brandon (24:16):
Still, I shouldn't say that word, that's wrong that's a
very old school term but, likeyou, just wanted to make sure
that you were safe yes, that Ihadn't contracted any viruses
stis why am I so?
I get my walker right now.
I am 90 and it's coming outokay.
Joey (24:35):
So yeah, I wanted to make sure that I I had no, had not
contracted any stis from thispotential partner.
So I went and they were like,oh, like I run online that you
didn't have to use your name andyou can go like pretty much
anonymous they don't ask for ahealth care card or anything.
And so, yeah, I was yeah.
(24:57):
And, coming from England, Ididn't have a health care number
.
So I saw an opportunity to goand get free health care,
because if I went to my local GPthey would bill me as an
international person, plus allthe medications, you know, lab
fees, all that on top, whereasthe HIM clinic would cover that
for me as, I guess, anonymous, Idon't really know where the
(25:18):
funding comes from maybe it'sthat parade that we were just
bashing.
I hope so.
I hope they get something fromit.
Brandon (25:26):
I'm sure they get funding somewhere.
Joey (25:27):
They have to well, so I went there and then I did all
the testing which obviouslycosts a lot of money for like
life labs and like the bloodtesting and all that stuff and
they have to send all like theHIV testing off.
It's like Ontario and stuff.
So I know there's a lot of costincurred with that, or incurred
or encountered.
Brandon (25:48):
You know I think I'm dyslexic or just fucking stupid,
but so english language is hardit's the hardest language in
the world have you ever tried tolearn like any type of chinese,
because that looks so hard tome but wait, I actually heard
that english is the hardestmaybe I'm just being naive, I
don't know that's probably likea white.
(26:09):
I tried to learn spanish onceand I had to drop out of that
elective.
Joey (26:13):
I could speak Spanish, but I forgot Hola.
No, it's hola.
Brandon (26:18):
That's no, you're a hola, oh.
Joey (26:23):
Okay, but the purpose of this story was that I got
treatment from them, or should Isay I got got, you know,
screened by them and then, um, Ididn't end up needing any
medication or anything.
I turned out I was, uh, clearof any stis, which is I was very
grateful of, but what, uh whatdid happen three months later
(26:45):
was life labs called me with abell?
oh no, I know the collectionsyeah, literally, and it was a
hefty bill and I was like, do welive in america like that?
That doesn't have the price tagon it, honey.
And I at first I was like I'lljust fucking pay it.
And then I was like, actuallywait a minute.
(27:06):
I didn't give my personalhealth number, so how did they
link this to me from thisappointment?
And they had found me in, like,the system because I gave my
real name and my date of realdate of birth.
I guess they had found me inthe system and like I just
thought, oh, it's this gay manhere, let's charge him
international person so I Ifreaked out and I was like, is
(27:27):
this supposed to be an anonymousservice?
and I didn't give my personalhealth care number and, like you
know, the the clinic I wentthrough, you know, reassured me
that I wouldn't have anything topay and that I, this is
anonymous and this is like youknow.
And then they, they were likereally like upset on the phone
like life labs, and they werelike, oh, like we're really
sorry.
And I was like, no, because if,like, I actually was maybe not
(27:54):
out and say you called me and Iwas a husband with two kids and
the wife in the car.
And I pick up the phone andyou're like these are your test
results and your overdue lifelabs bill that you owe.
And I'm like, could you?
Brandon (28:06):
imagine that would be life-changing to somebody.
Joey (28:08):
That's shocking well because when I answered the
phone I was on loudspeaker in mycar and thankfully no one was
there to know that my testresults were due, pending and
that I had to pay for my lifelabs bill.
But at the time I was like,like I said, like if this
scenario was different, that's,you can't just go hunting people
down that have come to you inconfidence not in 2024 no honey.
(28:32):
Anyways, I hope the pride, thepride parade, pays for their
funding, or something I'm verycurious where they get their
funding now.
Brandon (28:38):
It is usually a very good place to go.
Joey (28:40):
That's where I get my prep from, so okay, well, talk to me
about prep real quick, becauseI'm I've never used the product
and I I would love to know moreand if you could educate me on
that.
Brandon (28:52):
PrEP is a little blue pill that I take every day to
make me 99.9% immune to gettingHIV, which then turns into AIDS.
The reason I chose to be onPrEP is I don't hook up all that
often with other men, but whatI like about it is if I can be a
part of the solution tostopping the spread of aids,
(29:12):
then I feel like, as a gayperson, like I've made kind of a
difference because of all thepeople that have unfortunately
passed away.
If I have access to thismedication and say I have the
ability to be a part of thesolution, why not?
But that's my own personalchoice.
I know medication isn't foreverybody and condoms are just
effective, so so do yourresearch.
Joey (29:34):
Make the right choice for yourself like I know you're not
a doctor, but like what does thepill actually do?
Like it, does it preventcontracting the disease or does
it kill it, or like say if itenters your body, it like kills
it, it like doesn't.
Brandon (29:45):
I could be completely wrong, but from what I know is
it like stops it from developinginto hiv okay but most people
now who have hiv and are on theproper medication, they have
what is called beingundetectable, so they can't even
transmit it to you.
So there's positive, there'spositive undetectable.
Lots of different statuses thatyou can have, and just being
(30:07):
educated on the different onesis very smart yeah, I agree.
Joey (30:12):
Um, thanks for sharing that.
I, like I said, I've never usedum prep before.
I'm going to be oblivious hereand say that I don't think that
it's big in europe and I don't.
I think it was when I when,maybe when I moved here it was
like dribburyases or something.
Brandon (30:29):
It's like a new product that they're kind of like
distributing it was very much solike gatekeeped by the patent
that it was under.
It was very big in California.
Eventually they lost like thepatent to it so they could make
a generic version, which is whatblew up in Canada.
There's lots of differentprograms that offer it for free
Canada-wide.
Everybody is included.
(30:50):
You don't just have to be a gayman.
I know a lot of sex workers whoare female who have to again.
They're terrified of gettingHIV as well who are allowed to
be on it.
It's for everybody, but for gaymen specifically there's lots of
local programs.
In Alberta it's Freddie.
They operate through differentprovinces In here in BC I go
(31:11):
through him.
So lots of different clinics,lots of different options.
But they also have a new drugcalled Doxy.
Have you heard of that?
Joey (31:18):
No Doxypep.
Brandon (31:19):
So you can take it after you have sex with people
and it's a drug that stops, likesyphilis or chlamydia gonorrhea
.
Joey (31:27):
I just did some research for the vancouver pride uh
society and it just says thatthey have corporate sponsors and
it says that they're gratefulof the sponsor support of many
businesses and organizations.
And then find out how you cansupport, oh there's td bank yeah
, nice to know their pins, don'tjust?
Brandon (31:42):
mean pins.
They are putting their moneywhere their mouth is oh and
condoms.
They're a gold sponsor umhonestly, I've never paid for
condoms before, because everyclinic I've been to offers them
and at parades they're thrown atyou.
Joey (31:56):
So I mean, yeah, I agree, no, yeah, they're, they are they
are thrown at you, but you knowwhat be gay condoms safe sex is
important, but it is funny howlike you see like kids walking
around with like condoms off thestreet and I'm like let me put
that down that's not a waterballoon, you don't need that,
yeah, or like you see them alllike blown up on the street,
because like we're kids and likepeople just open condoms and
(32:17):
blow them up and like throwingdown the street does that happen
or yes?
yeah, I've seen that okay, Ithought it was just like making
shit up, but I was like I'mpretty sure I've seen like the
balloon elephants of the condomsgoing down the street I've
never seen it in the shape of aballoon elephant, but I've
definitely seen balloons thatwere condoms just blown in the
wind and you're like, oh, it waspride last week so that makes
sense.
Literally all the foils on thefloor.
Brandon (32:37):
I'm like crack or directs question mark oh,
depends what neighborhood you'rein, yours maybe, oh I'm moving,
okay, I like it over here.
It's cute like your apartment,your apartment.
Joey (32:49):
My apartment's nice, but my neighborhood delicate.
Brandon (32:54):
Delicate, that's a good word to put it, it's a delicate
neighborhood.
Joey (32:58):
Okay, so for our last question, I want to know, after
all your experiences and lifelessons and what you've been
through and talking to us today,what advice would you give
someone that may be strugglingto come out, or, um, that might
be someone that's struggling toaddress their feelings, um,
towards same-sex relationship?
Brandon (33:22):
my best piece of advice , and this is just based off of
my own personal experience.
But having at least one friendthat like is your best friend,
that you're very close with andyou can be open and honest with,
is, like, the key to mysurvival.
I wouldn't be here if it wasn'tfor this, like certain people
in certain phases in my life andtheir lifelong friends, who
(33:43):
have given me nothing but loveand support.
But without them and theirinspiration and just like their
ear to listen, I wouldn't bewhere I am.
So find that person, find whoyou, their inspiration and just
like their ear to listen, Iwouldn't be where I am.
So find that person, find whoyou can trust and just be open
and honest with them andhopefully they can be open and
honest back and you'll justbuild like a small little
community for yourself andhopefully that's enough to make
(34:04):
you feel confident in who youare.
And it's okay to be afraid Iwish more people said that but
it's okay to be afraid of beingdifferent.
But you'll get through it.
Every day is a new journey andjust because you have one bad
day doesn't mean the rest willbe, so keep going oh no no, that
(34:25):
was really sweet.
Joey (34:26):
That was, um, it's, it's.
It's crazy that when I firethese questions at you, like
it's, it's a very raw responseand um, it's, it's crazy like
where you pull it from.
You know, like as you talkabout your experiences and
growing up and stuff, it's crazylike where we pull these
answers from in these questions.
(34:49):
And I was just saying you know,off mic, I was like it's very
it's raw, like it's it comes outof you and like you listening
to you talk about, like, yourexperiences, it's very
validating for me to hear tooand like that there's
similarities in our stories andyou know, listening to you talk
about your experience and yourupbringing and you know
everything that you've learned,like there's a lot of value
(35:10):
there and it holds a lot ofvalue.
So I think talking about thison the podcast and having people
listen and hopefully youinspire someone and empower
someone to be confident in whothey are and make the decisions
they want to make, and well,thank you, you're so sweet I'm
happy you came in and then wecould chat um.
I'd love to have you in thefuture.
Brandon (35:31):
I'm always happy to come back.
I'm always happy to have alittle chat with you.
Thank you for having me.
This has been so much fun.
You're welcome A little deepdive into a little pocket of my
life.
Joey (35:41):
Yeah, honestly, it's very inspiring, very proud of you.
Brandon (35:44):
I'm very proud of you and this podcast, so thank you,
thank you.
Joey (35:54):
Oh, you cast, so thank you , thank you.
Brandon (35:56):
Oh, you're so cute thank you for listening.
Joey (35:57):
Um, always tune in every wednesday for a new episode and
be gay, honey.
I'm not gay, you are, that'sright baby.
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