February 13, 2025 • 30 mins
The importance of quality written content can't be overstated. Join me as I chat with Jon Clemence, a passionate editor and proofreader, about the critical role of editing in marketing and business communications.
We explore why polished content matters more than ever, even in the age of short-form video. Jon shares his journey from corporate burnout to finding fulfillment in editing, and offers practical tips for improving your own writing and editing process.
Key Insights on Editing and Content Quality
- Discover why stepping away from your work before editing is crucial
- Learn a surprising technique for catching more errors in your writing
- Understand how quality content impacts SEO, reader retention, and conversion rates
- Explore the pros and cons of using AI in content creation
Practical Tips for Better Editing
- The unexpected tool every writer should have on their desk
- How to approach editing your own work effectively
- Balancing efficiency and enjoyment in the writing process
The Future of Written Content
We discuss the enduring value of well-crafted writing in a world dominated by video platforms. John explains why written content remains essential and how it can complement your video marketing efforts.
Whether you're a business owner, marketer, or content creator, this episode offers valuable insights to elevate your written communications. You'll walk away with actionable strategies to improve your editing process and create content that resonates with your audience.
Ready to take your writing and editing skills to the next level?
Listen now and discover how to craft content that stands out in today's crowded digital landscape.
Resources:
Perplexity.ai: A research assistant platform that provides step-by-step solutions and clickable sources. (Free version available.)
Notebook LM: A tool by Google for organizing notes and research. It acts as a virtual research assistant to parse through content.
Connect with Jon Clemence:
Website: https://cedarpressproofreading.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cp_proofreading/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jon-clemence-300b31187/
Looking to leverage AI? Want better results? Want to think about what you want to leverage?
Check and see how I am using it for FREE on YouTube.
From "Holy cow, it can do that?" to "Wait, how does this work again?" – I've got all your AI curiosities covered. It's the perfect after-podcast snack for your tech-hungry brain.
Watch here
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome back to another episode of
Imperfect Marketing.
I'm your host, kendra Korman,and I'm excited to be talking
about an amazing topic with JohnClements of Cedar Press
Proofreading.
Proofreading is reallyimportant.
I'm always talking aboutediting and reviewing your stuff
before you push it live, and sothat's why it's super relevant.
Thanks so much, john, forjoining me.
(00:23):
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about yourself and how you
got into editing, writingproofreading?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, you bet.
Thanks, kendra, for having me.
So I've been doing writing andediting and proofreading since
early 2021 because of COVID.
So I actually lost my jobduring COVID.
I had a 15-year career in thecorporate world and before you
start feeling sorry for me, Ihad a 15-year career in the
corporate world.
Before you start feeling sorryfor me, I actually am happy
because I hated my old job witha passion.
(00:52):
But here's the deal I let fearhold me back.
I was afraid to step out and dosomething else.
Well, with COVID and theeconomic downturns, I didn't
have that to stop me anymore,because I had to do something
else.
So, rather than go back to acareer that I was pretty much
over, I said, okay, what can Ido that I enjoy, that I'm good
at and that provides value topeople?
(01:12):
And I came across editing and Ithought, hey, I've always loved
to proofread, like even inschool.
I was a guy who lovesShakespeare, for example, in
English class.
So, yes, I'm a big nerd and Iadmit it, I just wear it.
It's cool.
And even like in college, I wasthe guy who was like, hey, I'll
read your paper and I'll likeedit it for you, just for fun
(01:34):
and with no concept that you canactually do that for a living.
So when that opportunity cameafter I lost my job during COVID
, I thought, oh, I wonder ifpeople would pay me to edit
their work, and you know whatPeople will pay me to do that.
So that's how I got started isjust the ability to do something
I was passionate about that canhelp people and that can
(01:54):
provide for my livelihood.
And it's just.
It's not easy per se to be anentrepreneur, but it's been such
a blessing and so fun so far.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
That is so great.
So I am a geek myself?
I am definitely.
I love school.
I was actually talking to myniece last night and was telling
her how much I love school.
She's like I hate school.
I'm like suck it up, buttercup,like what are you going to do?
But I was not readingShakespeare in my free time.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I can tell you that.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
But I definitely did love school and, yeah, if you
don't let fear hold you back,it's like what would you do if
you weren't afraid?
Go do it, give it a shot, giveit a try.
You know there's a lot ofoptions there and I definitely
get what you're saying aboutwould people pay me for this?
And it's like when I wasstarting my agency, my marketing
(02:45):
agency, I met with the head ofmy MBA program and I'm like,
okay, I'm going to quit and domy own thing.
And he's like well, do your ownthing.
And I was like, because I waslooking for another job.
And he goes he goes, no, doyour own company.
And I was like I don't haveenough money for a Subway
franchise.
And he's like you don't need asubway franchise.
And I was like, well, whatwould I do?
(03:05):
He goes what you do.
And I'm like who would pay mefor that?
He goes people already pay youfor it.
It's called your salary.
And I was like, oh my gosh, Ijust we're so close to it and
what we do that sometimes wedon't really see the value that
we can provide along the way.
So that is so cool that youfound that opportunity and
identified it and are living,hopefully, your best life.
(03:28):
It is not always easy, but itis always for you which makes it
easier, I think.
So I am a big.
I'm very passionate.
I'm adjunct faculty at a localuniversity.
I talk about that all the time.
One third of my students'grades is grammar and, yeah,
spelling and grammar.
So editing, I feel, is reallyimportant, because spelling your
(03:49):
name wrong, spelling someoneelse's name wrong, a brand name
wrong, I mean just to start withthat is a problem, right.
So talk to me about why editingis important from like a bigger
standpoint rather than justlike the small typos.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, first of all, I'm going to say that I'm
jealous of you because I want tobe an adjunct professor someday
.
That's one of my life goals.
That's pretty cool.
I'm really that's how.
I'm really happy for you aboutthat.
But as far as yeah, the biggerpictures, let me just tell you a
story.
So I recently reached out to oneof my long-term clients and I
asked him.
I said look, what problem am Iactually solving for you, like,
(04:29):
when I edit a piece or write apiece of content for you?
Why do you keep coming back tome?
And so what she told mesurprised me, because she didn't
say you fix all the typos, eventhough I do fix all the typos.
And she didn't say well,everything is formatted
correctly and it's easy to read,which is another thing that I
do.
And she didn't even say well,you make sure that everything
(04:52):
that we write is voiced in a waythat the customer is going to
appreciate and connect with.
Well, I do that too.
So it's like well, what problemdo I solve then?
And you know what she told me?
She said well, when I send yousomething to work on, I don't
feel nervous when it goes out.
You worked on it, so it's good.
(05:12):
So, from a broad perspective, Ithink that's the problem that I
actually solve is not the typosor the formatting or the
spelling, as important as thosethings are and they are
important but I think what Isolve is I take that worry and
that stress away.
So when you edit a piece ofwork whether it's you or whether
you hire someone like me andyou come at it with that
(05:33):
critical eye, you know that whenyou hit send or hit publish,
it's polished, there's no stupidmistakes, it's aligned to your
customer base, you know theformatting is out and all these
things.
And so really it's just thatworry and stress is off your
plate because you've thoughtabout how can I make this the
best it can be, how can I givethis piece of content the best
chance of success?
(05:53):
And then you can hit send, hitpublish, and you can go sleep at
night.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
There's just so much in there that I loved, yes, the
easy to read in a way that yourcustomer will appreciate those
typos which are really important.
But it is stressful hittingsend on an email to 20,000 plus
people.
I know that like nobody's goingto die when I'm sending my
clients emails, you know if Isend a typo or a link doesn't
(06:19):
work or something like that.
It's stressful when you've got20,000 plus.
I mean I freak out when I'mgetting ready to send it.
I mean I check it probably 17,18 times, right, because I do
get so nervous.
Relating to is it right?
Did I do everything correctly?
(06:41):
Even if I look at it with acritical eye, I don't think I
would ever have the fullconfidence in myself for that,
if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
So, yeah, so, wow, yeah, I definitely agree with
you and I'm going to go aheadand give you like huge credit
for doing one of the things thatI am a broken record about, and
that is talking to yourcustomer.
It sounds so simple, but somany people skip that step.
Talking to your customer, whileit's not always the easiest
thing to do, gives you just suchamazing insights that you don't
(07:16):
expect, because you expectedher to say well, it doesn't have
any typos, well, it doesn't.
You know it's easy to read, orit's formatted correctly, or
whatever else they were lookingfor.
And then all of a sudden it'slike no, that's not it.
It's taking the stress of thatoff the plate, which is huge.
So that's awesome, yeah, soediting is really important.
(07:36):
I know in Hanley who's somebodyI've got her book back here
somewhere and a bunch of otherpeople say write it and then
step away from it for a day.
What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
That is something that I have in my own process.
So if you have to edit your ownwork, it's hard, like you said,
because you're too close to it,right?
You know what it's supposed tosay, you know what it says in
your head.
You don't always see what itsays on the page, and this
happens to me too, as anything Iwrite, I have to deal with the
same problem.
So, yeah, step away from it.
That's a great way to basicallylike cleanse your palate, so to
(08:09):
speak.
Come back to it with that freshset of eyes and you know if you
can have a day.
If you have two or three days,that's wonderful.
Life isn't always like that,but you know, even five or 10 or
20 minutes is going to bebetter than none.
So that is definitely anincredibly valuable tip.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yes, and because, again, I do feel like you need
to come at it from that freshperspective and if you're
reading it over and over andover again and sometimes you
can't avoid that but you do knowwhat it's going to say and you
do fill in those blanks a lot.
I actually just sent an emailyesterday, I think.
Yeah, the link didn't work.
Didn't test that before I sentit.
It's like oops, but luckilyit's all fixed.
(08:49):
Everything like oops, butluckily it's all fixed.
Everything's fixable for themost part, but it does.
It does frustrate people andyou don't want to do that in
your process.
If you could avoid it.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, can I jump in real quick?
and give another tip that goesright along with that.
I love tips Because this issomething that if you don't do
this for a living, you probablywould never think to do this,
but it works in conjunction withstepping away.
When you come back to yourwhatever it is your email, your
blog post, your newsletterhere's what I want you to do
next time you have to look at it, read it from the bottom to the
(09:17):
top.
What that does and it could bethe sentence level, the
paragraph level doesn't reallymatter but when you read from
the bottom to the top, it breaksthat flow up and now you're not
reading what you think youwrote.
It forces you to read what's onthe page.
So again that, as aprofessional editor, that's like
the number one tip I couldshare with anybody for that, for
doing their own editing is gostep away from the text, come
(09:41):
back to it and then read it fromthe bottom up, and you will
find so many more mistakes thanif you just read it straight
through again.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
I've heard that tip before and I've never really
figured out how to do it, soI've never actually done it but
I like how you said well, no,you can go to the paragraph
level and like, read theparagraph and then go to the you
know and just read from thebottom up.
Um, cause I was always likereading backwards just doesn't
make any sense and it's like, no, it's not reading backwards,
it's just reading from thebottom up.
(10:08):
This is just different order.
So, very cool, I love that tip.
Any other really good tips thatyou have for anybody or
anything else that you wanted toadd first, I do.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
So if you want to go down the editing rabbit hole and
what I actually do like whenI'm editing that you can
implement.
The other tip.
I would say and this is againsomething that people dismiss
just out of hand but go spend$20 and buy a dictionary.
I'm telling you, you don't knowhow to spell every word.
I'm really good at spelling.
I don't know how to spell everyword.
So rather than adding to thestress of trying to remember how
(10:40):
a word is spelled or hopingthat Grammarly is spelling it
right and here's a tip, theydon't always spell it right Just
get a dictionary, look it up.
No one's going to dock yourpoints for that.
Between stepping away from thetext, reading it from the bottom
up and using a dictionary likethat.
Right, there is so much of myown process and you're going to
again just find so many moreerrors just by doing those three
(11:03):
things than by just, you know,reading it through again and
calling it a day.
So if I had to give any tips,those would be the absolute top
tips and I think that that's agreat one.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
I do still have my dictionary.
I actually can spell quite afew words all by myself, but
there are ones that I can'tspell.
I cannot spell bureaucracythat's my kryptonite those the
ones that have the french ororigination in them.
I can't, I can't do it.
I have a friend who's a frenchexpat and he used to help me.
French is as his first language.
(11:34):
He'd be like that's becauseit's French, and I was like,
okay, whatever, tell me how tospell it, because spell check
can't even figure out what I'mtrying to spell.
But I could find it in adictionary.
You are correct, and I doactually have a dictionary, my
old.
I probably need an updated one,though, because they've added
some words, so they add everywords every year.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Every year yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
So All right, so let's, let's talk about applying
this in for for business owners, for people that are working to
build their business.
And let's talk about websites,because websites are living
documents.
It's not set in stone.
You can always update it right.
So let's talk about how doesthe quality of the content and
(12:22):
the lack of typos and thingslike that, and the bigger
picture of flow and voice andstructure, how does that tie
into SEO eliminating people fromjumping off the pages,
conversion rates, things likethat.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah.
So that's a great question,because it's very easy to get
into the weeds with thosesubjects and it's very easy to
get confused and lost and thinkyou have to hire a technical SEO
expert.
And there are definitelytechnical aspects to SEO.
I'm not saying there's not, butat the end of the day, here's
the ultimate hack for better SEO, for higher reader retention,
(13:01):
higher, better conversion rates.
If you want those, it's reallyabout publishing quality content
, because, at the end of the day, that's what people are looking
for.
That's what Google is lookingfor as well.
So if you can focus yourwebsite on information that
answers people's questions orsolves their problems, and it's
written and formatted in a waythat's super easy to read and
(13:22):
get that information, you'regoing to have better SEO, you're
going to have better readerretention, you're going to get
more conversions.
That's how it works.
So my advice is, before you diginto the technical aspects of
SEO, or at least in conjunctionwith, make sure you have that
quality content as a foundation,because that's what Google is
(13:44):
actually looking for, becausethat's the information that
helps your customers out.
Yeah, quality content is likethe name of the game out.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah, quality content is like the name of the game.
Yeah, answering questions iswhere I tell everybody to start.
That's why talking to yourcustomers is so important,
because then you know whatquestions they're asking, right.
You now know the fear peoplehave before they hit send on an
email.
You get rid of that.
That's quality, right.
That will lead to conversionsand everything else that goes
(14:16):
along with it Inquiry calls anddiscovery calls and everything
else that we do right.
If somebody was using AI and Iam a I'm a huge fan of AI.
I talk about it all the time.
I love it.
It's a huge time saver.
Using it by itself is nevergood, in my opinion.
It always needs human reviewand your expertise and insights.
But let's talk about the prosand cons of AI from your side.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeah, so I have a bit of a love-hate relationship
with AI.
I'm not going to lie.
I find it's really great forsome things and terrible for
others, and I know you use it aswell, and so I don't want to
judge anyone for using it or notuse it.
That's not what I'm about.
So you're absolutely right If II find that AI is fast and
effective If you take the timeto learn how to use it.
(15:01):
You can't just like hop on oneday and and start typing and
think it's going to going towork Like.
It requires effort, just likeany other tool for me personally
, and so this is maybe where Iapproach it, maybe a little bit
differently than what you would.
I'm not sure, but I'm an editor,I'm a writer, so you might
realize that I actually enjoythe writing process, and so one
(15:23):
thing I came across or I thoughtof the other day was like, can
AI help me write content?
It can, but I like to do it,it's fun, I enjoy it, so I don't
want to optimize the fun out ofmy life.
So for me, what I find it mostuseful for is a brainstorming
and research tool.
In fact, I just ran acrossGoogle's got one called Notebook
(15:43):
LM and you can basically dumpall your notes, all your
research and get this assistantto parse through it all for you
and kind of find the elementsfor you.
So to me that's the mosteffective use I've found to date
is just having it be a researchassistant.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
No, I definitely love using it as a research
assistant.
I want to plug perplexityai,which we'll put the links in the
show notes to all these two.
I love using that one as aresearch assistant because it
gives me those sources that youcan click on.
There's a free version of itand stuff like that, but it's
definitely a very cool way to doresearch, and I had a tech
issue go wrong this weekend andso I'm figuring out how to fix
(16:25):
this redirect problem.
Just typed the problem intoperplexity and it gave me
step-by-step-by-step solutions.
That made my life so mucheasier.
So I definitely, I definitelyagree with you that I do use AI
for the ugly rough draft or uglyfirst draft, or whatever you
want to call it, a lot of timesbecause it, while I enjoy the
(16:45):
writing process, I enjoy thethoughts and the creation of the
ideas more than I do thewriting itself.
So it taking my ideas andputting it into a format I do
enjoy and it actually makes meless tired the next day, which
is awesome, because I'm alwayslooking for ways to be able to
get more stuff done.
But I like it.
(17:06):
Don't.
Don't use AI just because itcan do something.
It doesn't mean you have to useit for that.
Think about other ways you canuse it.
It's here to stay, so youreally need to figure out how to
use it, but make sure that itfits to what you're trying to do
with it, right?
So what are, what are otherways that either you like to use
AI or you don't want peopleusing AI?
Speaker 2 (17:25):
or?
Yeah, one of the things yousaid is you take, you take your
ugly first drafts and you kindof let it work on it.
So one thing that I know thatyou must have done is you have
trained your AI.
So you have examples already ofyour voice, of your style, you
know, like you've told it, howto write this.
So that's one of the drawbacksis, if you don't have your voice
(17:47):
and if you don't, I'll even goso far as if you don't recognize
quality content already, ai isnot going to help you with that.
So it's a bit of a down theroad solution for the way you're
using it.
So that's a potential con orsomething just to be aware of.
And like to your point is, Ithink when AI first came out, we
(18:08):
all thought it was going to bean easy button right, I'm just
going to type in a prompt andit's going to spit out a thing
and it's going to be wonderful.
Well, hopefully we all know atthis point that's not how it
really works.
I've kind of got a funny story.
I saw this guy on LinkedIn theother day.
He wrote a post, a really nicepost.
It read well, formatted, great,his voice, really cool.
And then he goes.
I actually had chat GPT writethis post for me, like, oh,
(18:31):
that's pretty cool, like hereally did a good job with it.
Well, someone in the commentssaid, well, how much time did
that save you?
And he wrote back and he washonest.
He said, well, it actuallydidn't save me any time.
I used it more like a writingpartner and I had to like
iterate a ton to get it to dothis.
Like, okay, well, if you lovetechnology and you love, you
know, messing around withprompts and prompt engineering,
(18:51):
that's wonderful, but I'm justgoing to write the stupid thing.
I'm not going to do that.
I think you've found a way foryourself to make it a time and
energy saver, but it takes workto get to that point.
That's the main idea, becauseotherwise it's just going to
sound like AI and I don't wantto read that and most people
don't want to read that.
And then probably the last.
(19:14):
So if there was a con, I supposeit would probably be in the
world of ethics and environment,because there is, you know,
some ethical concerns aboutwhere these AI companies are
getting their data to traintheir machines and I, you know,
I don't know how the courtsystem is going to deal with
that.
So if you're using it, you justhave to give that some thought.
And then the same thing withenvironmental factors.
It does use a ton of energy andso that is not going to help,
(19:38):
you know.
It's not going to help usreduce our greenhouse gas
emissions, it's not going tohelp us lower the temperatures
of the planet.
So if those are things that areimportant to you, again, I'm not
saying use it or don't use it,or I'm not judging anyone, but
just like be aware of thosefactors.
And so for me it just means doI really need to use AI in this
application or do I just want to?
And maybe I choose not to dosome of the superfluous things
(20:01):
because of the ethical,environmental, but maybe I do
need to use it for other thingsand it makes sense.
So just know about it andfactor that into your decision.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
So just to give you guys more on the environmental
piece, I do think that that'simportant because I don't
believe that the average personis thinking about that at all
and I actually wasn't aware ofit myself until I saw that there
was an environmental activistgroup that is about deleting old
emails.
Why is some environmental groupall about deleting old emails?
(20:33):
Because of the data centers ittakes to hold those emails.
Delete your old emails.
You do not need that Costcoemail, that Amazon email, the
Shein email, whatever else yougot going on from last month,
let alone from three years ago.
Hit delete, get rid of it,don't archive it, don't save it.
(20:54):
Save some greenhouse gases andget it going.
But I do think it's importantbecause I don't think we truly
understand the size of thesedata centers that are supporting
the way we do it.
We're like, oh, it's paperless,yeah, but it's not free, right?
So I think that that'ssomething that we really need to
look at as people.
So that is a great thing tobring up, because I do think
(21:14):
people need to be more cognizantof how they're using technology
and how they're savingtechnology, because it does have
an impact on our environmentand being more aware of it is
very important.
I also love that you'rebringing up the ethical issues
of where it learned, trained onit, trained on the entire
internet.
I had blogs out there that itwas trained on.
You probably had work that wasout there that was trained on.
(21:36):
Neither of us were compensatedfor that, and I understand that
to an extent.
I hire photographers very oftenand don't use very many AI
generated images, and if I do,I'm very clear that it's AI
generated images.
We don't know how thiscopyright is going to go.
I mean, right now, anythingthat's AI generated is not able
(21:56):
to be copyrighted.
So just something to thinkabout, at least in the United
States.
So you want to think about howyou're going to work through
that going forward.
That's why I find, yes, I dotrain my AI and I do make sure
that it has my voice and it hasmy input.
I also give it my insights.
So then it's just structuringright and so it's not coming up
(22:18):
with the ideas on its own.
I'm giving it the ideas, whichI also think has, because I have
different experiences than youdo.
You have different experiencesthan I do and I don't want that
vanilla washed out content rightthat you can get from AI.
We could have this conversation.
These could be AI generatedvideo avatars.
(22:40):
I just don't feel the qualityis there.
We can't go back and forth andtalk about that.
Things aren't going to surpriseme like, oh, the environmental
piece, I haven't talked aboutthat.
That's a really good point tobring up and to make sure that
we're bringing it up so thatpeople understand what's
involved here, and so I thinkthat that's fantastic.
So, yes, use AI.
I think people need to figureout what their ethical
(23:01):
boundaries are around it.
It's here to stay.
It's not going anywhere.
I think you know, we all know,that it's figuring out how do we
work with it, right, so I lovethat.
All right, let's talk aboutwith YouTube going gangbusters
TikTok.
Out with YouTube goinggangbusters TikTok.
We're recording this in January, just so you all know.
(23:22):
So hopefully it's still aroundin February when this comes out,
but we'll pretend, and we'regoing to make an assumption,
that it is.
So, with the short form videoand short attention spans all
over, how important is writingreally?
Speaker 2 (23:37):
I think it's still critically important.
I've actually got I'm going tosay three reasons why I number
these right in my head.
So I the first I think there'salways going to be a place for
quality written content.
I mean, we've been reading andwriting as a, as a species, for
what?
10,000 years or something crazy.
I don't think we're going tostop anytime soon.
(23:59):
I mean, I still read books.
My daughter is 12.
She's reading like a maniac.
So there's still that need formany of us to read books, read
information.
So I don't think that's kind ofingrained in us at this point.
The second reason is look, Iwatch a ton of YouTube videos,
(24:20):
just like everybody else.
Okay, I'm not on TikTok,probably because I'm over 40 and
I don't understand it.
Maybe I need to fix that, butsometimes the fact is, reading
is more efficient.
So if I'm researching yourproduct or service, yeah, I can
go to your YouTube channel andwatch a 30-minute product demo,
and that might be a step that Itake, but I can can go to your
YouTube channel and watch a30-minute product demo, and that
(24:43):
might be a step that I take,but I can probably go to your
website, if it's well-writtenand well-constructed, and get
that same information in fiveminutes.
I would rather spend fiveminutes than try to wade through
a 30-minute video.
So, again, that's kind ofcase-dependent, but there is
definitely situations wherehaving a blog, having an e-book
or something is going to be moreefficient and is going to be
what people want more than avideo.
So there's that aspect, butreally there's also and I like
(25:06):
to say it's not necessarily aneither or it's a both, and so
this is something that not a lotof people probably think about
either.
But your existing website, yourblog, your newsletter, your
e-book you have out there hasthe seeds for so many videos
right now.
Right, it's so easy to take ablog post and make it into a
video.
You can literally just hit therecord button on your camera and
(25:28):
just read it if you want.
I mean it'd be a very goodvideo.
There's probably better ways todo it, but really the concept is
that easy.
So if you want to grow yourpresence on YouTube, on TikTok,
on whatever like, look at yourexisting content.
You've probably got a hundredvideo ideas in your blog right
now.
So I think it's a reinforcingthing.
Right, write more blog posts,you can do more videos, and then
(25:51):
your video is going to promptmore ideas.
You can write more blog posts.
There's really no reason tofocus on one or the other when
you can have the best of bothworlds.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
I like that a lot.
One of my clients back in theday a couple of years ago.
They were doing videos andsending out transcripts with the
videos.
They started sending videos andthey were getting a higher
engagement.
Then they started sending outthe transcript or like a blog
summary of the video, and thiswas just internal communications
(26:20):
.
More people were spending timeon the written piece of it and
clicking through to that thanactually watching the video,
because they could do it at adifferent pace.
They could do it in betweencalls and things like that, but
they couldn't do the video right, because you can't listen to a
phone call and have it pulled upand then stop it, because then
you forget.
You can read the sentencebefore it, right To remember
(26:41):
where you left off and and andgather where that is.
So I think that there's a lotof value there.
I think that I'm getting readyto read.
This Is Strategy by Seth Godin,but he's been talking a lot
about like.
His blog doesn't need to reacheverybody.
It doesn't need to go viral,right.
It has to reach the rightpeople and if it's five people,
that's fine, right, becausethey're the right people and so
(27:04):
as long as he's got value, he'sgoing to keep writing his blog
and I think that that'simportant.
I think that writing is hugelyimportant.
I think AI-assisted content isfine.
Ai-generated content is not, aswe've covered a little bit,
because I think that it's reallyabout your voice, your
experience and who you are andmaking sure that that's included
(27:26):
, so very cool.
Thank you so much, john.
I love all of the tips thatyou've given, and so everybody
go on Amazon, buy a dictionaryso that you have one on hand If
you don't have one already.
Make sure you're reading fromthe bottom up, and that's all,
after taking a step back fromyour writing for at least a day,
and I think that those tips canserve us all well, whether
(27:47):
we're using AI assisted or 100%human generated content, to make
sure that it's what we need forour customers.
But before I let you go, thereis a question that I ask all of
my guests, and that is this showis called Imperfect Marketing,
because marketing is anythingbut a perfect science.
What has been your biggestmarketing lesson?
Speaker 2 (28:09):
My biggest lesson actually ties into the title of
the podcast.
The biggest thing I learnedabout marketing was you just
have to get started.
So I have not found marketingthe kind of thing where you can
develop the perfect plan beforeyou start.
In my experience again assomeone who's learning it on the
fly is, yeah, you can have aplan going in and that's fine,
(28:29):
but hold it loosely, because I'malways working on my marketing,
I'm always refining it, butit's never perfect, and if you
wait till it's perfect, you'renever going to start.
So just get started.
Just write that next post, justsend that next email, just do
it.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Yeah, I was talking to somebody the other day and I
said we were talking about theirpodcast and it's just to get
started.
You're not going to like yourfirst episode.
You're not in 10 episodes, butyou got to get through that
first episode to get to episode10, where you don't like number
one, and that's okay becausenobody's listening to number one
anyway, so it's all good.
So thank you so much, john, foryour time.
(29:08):
We will have ways to get incontact with John in the show
notes, so be sure to check thatand no matter where you're
listening or watching, it wouldhelp us if you would rate and
subscribe.
We would love to see you againon another episode of Imperfect
Marketing.
Until next time, have a greatrest of your day.
Hello and welcome back to another episode of
Imperfect Marketing.
I'm your host, kendra Korman,and I'm excited to be talking
about an amazing topic with JohnClements of Cedar Press
Proofreading.
Proofreading is reallyimportant.
I'm always talking aboutediting and reviewing your stuff
before you push it live, and sothat's why it's super relevant.
Thanks so much, john, forjoining me.
(00:23):
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about yourself and how you
got into editing, writingproofreading?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, you bet.
Thanks, kendra, for having me.
So I've been doing writing andediting and proofreading since
early 2021 because of COVID.
So I actually lost my jobduring COVID.
I had a 15-year career in thecorporate world and before you
start feeling sorry for me, Ihad a 15-year career in the
corporate world.
Before you start feeling sorryfor me, I actually am happy
because I hated my old job witha passion.
(00:52):
But here's the deal I let fearhold me back.
I was afraid to step out and dosomething else.
Well, with COVID and theeconomic downturns, I didn't
have that to stop me anymore,because I had to do something
else.
So, rather than go back to acareer that I was pretty much
over, I said, okay, what can Ido that I enjoy, that I'm good
at and that provides value topeople?
(01:12):
And I came across editing and Ithought, hey, I've always loved
to proofread, like even inschool.
I was a guy who lovesShakespeare, for example, in
English class.
So, yes, I'm a big nerd and Iadmit it, I just wear it.
It's cool.
And even like in college, I wasthe guy who was like, hey, I'll
read your paper and I'll likeedit it for you, just for fun
(01:34):
and with no concept that you canactually do that for a living.
So when that opportunity cameafter I lost my job during COVID
, I thought, oh, I wonder ifpeople would pay me to edit
their work, and you know whatPeople will pay me to do that.
So that's how I got started isjust the ability to do something
I was passionate about that canhelp people and that can
(01:54):
provide for my livelihood.
And it's just.
It's not easy per se to be anentrepreneur, but it's been such
a blessing and so fun so far.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
That is so great.
So I am a geek myself?
I am definitely.
I love school.
I was actually talking to myniece last night and was telling
her how much I love school.
She's like I hate school.
I'm like suck it up, buttercup,like what are you going to do?
But I was not readingShakespeare in my free time.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I can tell you that.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
But I definitely did love school and, yeah, if you
don't let fear hold you back,it's like what would you do if
you weren't afraid?
Go do it, give it a shot, giveit a try.
You know there's a lot ofoptions there and I definitely
get what you're saying aboutwould people pay me for this?
And it's like when I wasstarting my agency, my marketing
(02:45):
agency, I met with the head ofmy MBA program and I'm like,
okay, I'm going to quit and domy own thing.
And he's like well, do your ownthing.
And I was like, because I waslooking for another job.
And he goes he goes, no, doyour own company.
And I was like I don't haveenough money for a Subway
franchise.
And he's like you don't need asubway franchise.
And I was like, well, whatwould I do?
(03:05):
He goes what you do.
And I'm like who would pay mefor that?
He goes people already pay youfor it.
It's called your salary.
And I was like, oh my gosh, Ijust we're so close to it and
what we do that sometimes wedon't really see the value that
we can provide along the way.
So that is so cool that youfound that opportunity and
identified it and are living,hopefully, your best life.
(03:28):
It is not always easy, but itis always for you which makes it
easier, I think.
So I am a big.
I'm very passionate.
I'm adjunct faculty at a localuniversity.
I talk about that all the time.
One third of my students'grades is grammar and, yeah,
spelling and grammar.
So editing, I feel, is reallyimportant, because spelling your
(03:49):
name wrong, spelling someoneelse's name wrong, a brand name
wrong, I mean just to start withthat is a problem, right.
So talk to me about why editingis important from like a bigger
standpoint rather than justlike the small typos.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, first of all, I'm going to say that I'm
jealous of you because I want tobe an adjunct professor someday
.
That's one of my life goals.
That's pretty cool.
I'm really that's how.
I'm really happy for you aboutthat.
But as far as yeah, the biggerpictures, let me just tell you a
story.
So I recently reached out to oneof my long-term clients and I
asked him.
I said look, what problem am Iactually solving for you, like,
(04:29):
when I edit a piece or write apiece of content for you?
Why do you keep coming back tome?
And so what she told mesurprised me, because she didn't
say you fix all the typos, eventhough I do fix all the typos.
And she didn't say well,everything is formatted
correctly and it's easy to read,which is another thing that I
do.
And she didn't even say well,you make sure that everything
(04:52):
that we write is voiced in a waythat the customer is going to
appreciate and connect with.
Well, I do that too.
So it's like well, what problemdo I solve then?
And you know what she told me?
She said well, when I send yousomething to work on, I don't
feel nervous when it goes out.
You worked on it, so it's good.
(05:12):
So, from a broad perspective, Ithink that's the problem that I
actually solve is not the typosor the formatting or the
spelling, as important as thosethings are and they are
important but I think what Isolve is I take that worry and
that stress away.
So when you edit a piece ofwork whether it's you or whether
you hire someone like me andyou come at it with that
(05:33):
critical eye, you know that whenyou hit send or hit publish,
it's polished, there's no stupidmistakes, it's aligned to your
customer base, you know theformatting is out and all these
things.
And so really it's just thatworry and stress is off your
plate because you've thoughtabout how can I make this the
best it can be, how can I givethis piece of content the best
chance of success?
(05:53):
And then you can hit send, hitpublish, and you can go sleep at
night.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
There's just so much in there that I loved, yes, the
easy to read in a way that yourcustomer will appreciate those
typos which are really important.
But it is stressful hittingsend on an email to 20,000 plus
people.
I know that like nobody's goingto die when I'm sending my
clients emails, you know if Isend a typo or a link doesn't
(06:19):
work or something like that.
It's stressful when you've got20,000 plus.
I mean I freak out when I'mgetting ready to send it.
I mean I check it probably 17,18 times, right, because I do
get so nervous.
Relating to is it right?
Did I do everything correctly?
(06:41):
Even if I look at it with acritical eye, I don't think I
would ever have the fullconfidence in myself for that,
if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
So, yeah, so, wow, yeah, I definitely agree with
you and I'm going to go aheadand give you like huge credit
for doing one of the things thatI am a broken record about, and
that is talking to yourcustomer.
It sounds so simple, but somany people skip that step.
Talking to your customer, whileit's not always the easiest
thing to do, gives you just suchamazing insights that you don't
(07:16):
expect, because you expectedher to say well, it doesn't have
any typos, well, it doesn't.
You know it's easy to read, orit's formatted correctly, or
whatever else they were lookingfor.
And then all of a sudden it'slike no, that's not it.
It's taking the stress of thatoff the plate, which is huge.
So that's awesome, yeah, soediting is really important.
(07:36):
I know in Hanley who's somebodyI've got her book back here
somewhere and a bunch of otherpeople say write it and then
step away from it for a day.
What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
That is something that I have in my own process.
So if you have to edit your ownwork, it's hard, like you said,
because you're too close to it,right?
You know what it's supposed tosay, you know what it says in
your head.
You don't always see what itsays on the page, and this
happens to me too, as anything Iwrite, I have to deal with the
same problem.
So, yeah, step away from it.
That's a great way to basicallylike cleanse your palate, so to
(08:09):
speak.
Come back to it with that freshset of eyes and you know if you
can have a day.
If you have two or three days,that's wonderful.
Life isn't always like that,but you know, even five or 10 or
20 minutes is going to bebetter than none.
So that is definitely anincredibly valuable tip.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yes, and because, again, I do feel like you need
to come at it from that freshperspective and if you're
reading it over and over andover again and sometimes you
can't avoid that but you do knowwhat it's going to say and you
do fill in those blanks a lot.
I actually just sent an emailyesterday, I think.
Yeah, the link didn't work.
Didn't test that before I sentit.
It's like oops, but luckilyit's all fixed.
(08:49):
Everything like oops, butluckily it's all fixed.
Everything's fixable for themost part, but it does.
It does frustrate people andyou don't want to do that in
your process.
If you could avoid it.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, can I jump in real quick?
and give another tip that goesright along with that.
I love tips Because this issomething that if you don't do
this for a living, you probablywould never think to do this,
but it works in conjunction withstepping away.
When you come back to yourwhatever it is your email, your
blog post, your newsletterhere's what I want you to do
next time you have to look at it, read it from the bottom to the
(09:17):
top.
What that does and it could bethe sentence level, the
paragraph level doesn't reallymatter but when you read from
the bottom to the top, it breaksthat flow up and now you're not
reading what you think youwrote.
It forces you to read what's onthe page.
So again that, as aprofessional editor, that's like
the number one tip I couldshare with anybody for that, for
doing their own editing is gostep away from the text, come
(09:41):
back to it and then read it fromthe bottom up, and you will
find so many more mistakes thanif you just read it straight
through again.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
I've heard that tip before and I've never really
figured out how to do it, soI've never actually done it but
I like how you said well, no,you can go to the paragraph
level and like, read theparagraph and then go to the you
know and just read from thebottom up.
Um, cause I was always likereading backwards just doesn't
make any sense and it's like, no, it's not reading backwards,
it's just reading from thebottom up.
(10:08):
This is just different order.
So, very cool, I love that tip.
Any other really good tips thatyou have for anybody or
anything else that you wanted toadd first, I do.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
So if you want to go down the editing rabbit hole and
what I actually do like whenI'm editing that you can
implement.
The other tip.
I would say and this is againsomething that people dismiss
just out of hand but go spend$20 and buy a dictionary.
I'm telling you, you don't knowhow to spell every word.
I'm really good at spelling.
I don't know how to spell everyword.
So rather than adding to thestress of trying to remember how
(10:40):
a word is spelled or hopingthat Grammarly is spelling it
right and here's a tip, theydon't always spell it right Just
get a dictionary, look it up.
No one's going to dock yourpoints for that.
Between stepping away from thetext, reading it from the bottom
up and using a dictionary likethat.
Right, there is so much of myown process and you're going to
again just find so many moreerrors just by doing those three
(11:03):
things than by just, you know,reading it through again and
calling it a day.
So if I had to give any tips,those would be the absolute top
tips and I think that that's agreat one.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
I do still have my dictionary.
I actually can spell quite afew words all by myself, but
there are ones that I can'tspell.
I cannot spell bureaucracythat's my kryptonite those the
ones that have the french ororigination in them.
I can't, I can't do it.
I have a friend who's a frenchexpat and he used to help me.
French is as his first language.
(11:34):
He'd be like that's becauseit's French, and I was like,
okay, whatever, tell me how tospell it, because spell check
can't even figure out what I'mtrying to spell.
But I could find it in adictionary.
You are correct, and I doactually have a dictionary, my
old.
I probably need an updated one,though, because they've added
some words, so they add everywords every year.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Every year yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
So All right, so let's, let's talk about applying
this in for for business owners, for people that are working to
build their business.
And let's talk about websites,because websites are living
documents.
It's not set in stone.
You can always update it right.
So let's talk about how doesthe quality of the content and
(12:22):
the lack of typos and thingslike that, and the bigger
picture of flow and voice andstructure, how does that tie
into SEO eliminating people fromjumping off the pages,
conversion rates, things likethat.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah.
So that's a great question,because it's very easy to get
into the weeds with thosesubjects and it's very easy to
get confused and lost and thinkyou have to hire a technical SEO
expert.
And there are definitelytechnical aspects to SEO.
I'm not saying there's not, butat the end of the day, here's
the ultimate hack for better SEO, for higher reader retention,
(13:01):
higher, better conversion rates.
If you want those, it's reallyabout publishing quality content
, because, at the end of the day, that's what people are looking
for.
That's what Google is lookingfor as well.
So if you can focus yourwebsite on information that
answers people's questions orsolves their problems, and it's
written and formatted in a waythat's super easy to read and
(13:22):
get that information, you'regoing to have better SEO, you're
going to have better readerretention, you're going to get
more conversions.
That's how it works.
So my advice is, before you diginto the technical aspects of
SEO, or at least in conjunctionwith, make sure you have that
quality content as a foundation,because that's what Google is
(13:44):
actually looking for, becausethat's the information that
helps your customers out.
Yeah, quality content is likethe name of the game out.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah, quality content is like the name of the game.
Yeah, answering questions iswhere I tell everybody to start.
That's why talking to yourcustomers is so important,
because then you know whatquestions they're asking, right.
You now know the fear peoplehave before they hit send on an
email.
You get rid of that.
That's quality, right.
That will lead to conversionsand everything else that goes
(14:16):
along with it Inquiry calls anddiscovery calls and everything
else that we do right.
If somebody was using AI and Iam a I'm a huge fan of AI.
I talk about it all the time.
I love it.
It's a huge time saver.
Using it by itself is nevergood, in my opinion.
It always needs human reviewand your expertise and insights.
But let's talk about the prosand cons of AI from your side.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeah, so I have a bit of a love-hate relationship
with AI.
I'm not going to lie.
I find it's really great forsome things and terrible for
others, and I know you use it aswell, and so I don't want to
judge anyone for using it or notuse it.
That's not what I'm about.
So you're absolutely right If II find that AI is fast and
effective If you take the timeto learn how to use it.
(15:01):
You can't just like hop on oneday and and start typing and
think it's going to going towork Like.
It requires effort, just likeany other tool for me personally
, and so this is maybe where Iapproach it, maybe a little bit
differently than what you would.
I'm not sure, but I'm an editor,I'm a writer, so you might
realize that I actually enjoythe writing process, and so one
(15:23):
thing I came across or I thoughtof the other day was like, can
AI help me write content?
It can, but I like to do it,it's fun, I enjoy it, so I don't
want to optimize the fun out ofmy life.
So for me, what I find it mostuseful for is a brainstorming
and research tool.
In fact, I just ran acrossGoogle's got one called Notebook
(15:43):
LM and you can basically dumpall your notes, all your
research and get this assistantto parse through it all for you
and kind of find the elementsfor you.
So to me that's the mosteffective use I've found to date
is just having it be a researchassistant.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
No, I definitely love using it as a research
assistant.
I want to plug perplexityai,which we'll put the links in the
show notes to all these two.
I love using that one as aresearch assistant because it
gives me those sources that youcan click on.
There's a free version of itand stuff like that, but it's
definitely a very cool way to doresearch, and I had a tech
issue go wrong this weekend andso I'm figuring out how to fix
(16:25):
this redirect problem.
Just typed the problem intoperplexity and it gave me
step-by-step-by-step solutions.
That made my life so mucheasier.
So I definitely, I definitelyagree with you that I do use AI
for the ugly rough draft or uglyfirst draft, or whatever you
want to call it, a lot of timesbecause it, while I enjoy the
(16:45):
writing process, I enjoy thethoughts and the creation of the
ideas more than I do thewriting itself.
So it taking my ideas andputting it into a format I do
enjoy and it actually makes meless tired the next day, which
is awesome, because I'm alwayslooking for ways to be able to
get more stuff done.
But I like it.
(17:06):
Don't.
Don't use AI just because itcan do something.
It doesn't mean you have to useit for that.
Think about other ways you canuse it.
It's here to stay, so youreally need to figure out how to
use it, but make sure that itfits to what you're trying to do
with it, right?
So what are, what are otherways that either you like to use
AI or you don't want peopleusing AI?
Speaker 2 (17:25):
or?
Yeah, one of the things yousaid is you take, you take your
ugly first drafts and you kindof let it work on it.
So one thing that I know thatyou must have done is you have
trained your AI.
So you have examples already ofyour voice, of your style, you
know, like you've told it, howto write this.
So that's one of the drawbacksis, if you don't have your voice
(17:47):
and if you don't, I'll even goso far as if you don't recognize
quality content already, ai isnot going to help you with that.
So it's a bit of a down theroad solution for the way you're
using it.
So that's a potential con orsomething just to be aware of.
And like to your point is, Ithink when AI first came out, we
(18:08):
all thought it was going to bean easy button right, I'm just
going to type in a prompt andit's going to spit out a thing
and it's going to be wonderful.
Well, hopefully we all know atthis point that's not how it
really works.
I've kind of got a funny story.
I saw this guy on LinkedIn theother day.
He wrote a post, a really nicepost.
It read well, formatted, great,his voice, really cool.
And then he goes.
I actually had chat GPT writethis post for me, like, oh,
(18:31):
that's pretty cool, like hereally did a good job with it.
Well, someone in the commentssaid, well, how much time did
that save you?
And he wrote back and he washonest.
He said, well, it actuallydidn't save me any time.
I used it more like a writingpartner and I had to like
iterate a ton to get it to dothis.
Like, okay, well, if you lovetechnology and you love, you
know, messing around withprompts and prompt engineering,
(18:51):
that's wonderful, but I'm justgoing to write the stupid thing.
I'm not going to do that.
I think you've found a way foryourself to make it a time and
energy saver, but it takes workto get to that point.
That's the main idea, becauseotherwise it's just going to
sound like AI and I don't wantto read that and most people
don't want to read that.
And then probably the last.
(19:14):
So if there was a con, I supposeit would probably be in the
world of ethics and environment,because there is, you know,
some ethical concerns aboutwhere these AI companies are
getting their data to traintheir machines and I, you know,
I don't know how the courtsystem is going to deal with
that.
So if you're using it, you justhave to give that some thought.
And then the same thing withenvironmental factors.
It does use a ton of energy andso that is not going to help,
(19:38):
you know.
It's not going to help usreduce our greenhouse gas
emissions, it's not going tohelp us lower the temperatures
of the planet.
So if those are things that areimportant to you, again, I'm not
saying use it or don't use it,or I'm not judging anyone, but
just like be aware of thosefactors.
And so for me it just means doI really need to use AI in this
application or do I just want to?
And maybe I choose not to dosome of the superfluous things
(20:01):
because of the ethical,environmental, but maybe I do
need to use it for other thingsand it makes sense.
So just know about it andfactor that into your decision.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
So just to give you guys more on the environmental
piece, I do think that that'simportant because I don't
believe that the average personis thinking about that at all
and I actually wasn't aware ofit myself until I saw that there
was an environmental activistgroup that is about deleting old
emails.
Why is some environmental groupall about deleting old emails?
(20:33):
Because of the data centers ittakes to hold those emails.
Delete your old emails.
You do not need that Costcoemail, that Amazon email, the
Shein email, whatever else yougot going on from last month,
let alone from three years ago.
Hit delete, get rid of it,don't archive it, don't save it.
(20:54):
Save some greenhouse gases andget it going.
But I do think it's importantbecause I don't think we truly
understand the size of thesedata centers that are supporting
the way we do it.
We're like, oh, it's paperless,yeah, but it's not free, right?
So I think that that'ssomething that we really need to
look at as people.
So that is a great thing tobring up, because I do think
(21:14):
people need to be more cognizantof how they're using technology
and how they're savingtechnology, because it does have
an impact on our environmentand being more aware of it is
very important.
I also love that you'rebringing up the ethical issues
of where it learned, trained onit, trained on the entire
internet.
I had blogs out there that itwas trained on.
You probably had work that wasout there that was trained on.
(21:36):
Neither of us were compensatedfor that, and I understand that
to an extent.
I hire photographers very oftenand don't use very many AI
generated images, and if I do,I'm very clear that it's AI
generated images.
We don't know how thiscopyright is going to go.
I mean, right now, anythingthat's AI generated is not able
(21:56):
to be copyrighted.
So just something to thinkabout, at least in the United
States.
So you want to think about howyou're going to work through
that going forward.
That's why I find, yes, I dotrain my AI and I do make sure
that it has my voice and it hasmy input.
I also give it my insights.
So then it's just structuringright and so it's not coming up
(22:18):
with the ideas on its own.
I'm giving it the ideas, whichI also think has, because I have
different experiences than youdo.
You have different experiencesthan I do and I don't want that
vanilla washed out content rightthat you can get from AI.
We could have this conversation.
These could be AI generatedvideo avatars.
(22:40):
I just don't feel the qualityis there.
We can't go back and forth andtalk about that.
Things aren't going to surpriseme like, oh, the environmental
piece, I haven't talked aboutthat.
That's a really good point tobring up and to make sure that
we're bringing it up so thatpeople understand what's
involved here, and so I thinkthat that's fantastic.
So, yes, use AI.
I think people need to figureout what their ethical
(23:01):
boundaries are around it.
It's here to stay.
It's not going anywhere.
I think you know, we all know,that it's figuring out how do we
work with it, right, so I lovethat.
All right, let's talk aboutwith YouTube going gangbusters
TikTok.
Out with YouTube goinggangbusters TikTok.
We're recording this in January, just so you all know.
(23:22):
So hopefully it's still aroundin February when this comes out,
but we'll pretend, and we'regoing to make an assumption,
that it is.
So, with the short form videoand short attention spans all
over, how important is writingreally?
Speaker 2 (23:37):
I think it's still critically important.
I've actually got I'm going tosay three reasons why I number
these right in my head.
So I the first I think there'salways going to be a place for
quality written content.
I mean, we've been reading andwriting as a, as a species, for
what?
10,000 years or something crazy.
I don't think we're going tostop anytime soon.
(23:59):
I mean, I still read books.
My daughter is 12.
She's reading like a maniac.
So there's still that need formany of us to read books, read
information.
So I don't think that's kind ofingrained in us at this point.
The second reason is look, Iwatch a ton of YouTube videos,
(24:20):
just like everybody else.
Okay, I'm not on TikTok,probably because I'm over 40 and
I don't understand it.
Maybe I need to fix that, butsometimes the fact is, reading
is more efficient.
So if I'm researching yourproduct or service, yeah, I can
go to your YouTube channel andwatch a 30-minute product demo,
and that might be a step that Itake, but I can can go to your
YouTube channel and watch a30-minute product demo, and that
(24:43):
might be a step that I take,but I can probably go to your
website, if it's well-writtenand well-constructed, and get
that same information in fiveminutes.
I would rather spend fiveminutes than try to wade through
a 30-minute video.
So, again, that's kind ofcase-dependent, but there is
definitely situations wherehaving a blog, having an e-book
or something is going to be moreefficient and is going to be
what people want more than avideo.
So there's that aspect, butreally there's also and I like
(25:06):
to say it's not necessarily aneither or it's a both, and so
this is something that not a lotof people probably think about
either.
But your existing website, yourblog, your newsletter, your
e-book you have out there hasthe seeds for so many videos
right now.
Right, it's so easy to take ablog post and make it into a
video.
You can literally just hit therecord button on your camera and
(25:28):
just read it if you want.
I mean it'd be a very goodvideo.
There's probably better ways todo it, but really the concept is
that easy.
So if you want to grow yourpresence on YouTube, on TikTok,
on whatever like, look at yourexisting content.
You've probably got a hundredvideo ideas in your blog right
now.
So I think it's a reinforcingthing.
Right, write more blog posts,you can do more videos, and then
(25:51):
your video is going to promptmore ideas.
You can write more blog posts.
There's really no reason tofocus on one or the other when
you can have the best of bothworlds.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
I like that a lot.
One of my clients back in theday a couple of years ago.
They were doing videos andsending out transcripts with the
videos.
They started sending videos andthey were getting a higher
engagement.
Then they started sending outthe transcript or like a blog
summary of the video, and thiswas just internal communications
(26:20):
.
More people were spending timeon the written piece of it and
clicking through to that thanactually watching the video,
because they could do it at adifferent pace.
They could do it in betweencalls and things like that, but
they couldn't do the video right, because you can't listen to a
phone call and have it pulled upand then stop it, because then
you forget.
You can read the sentencebefore it, right To remember
(26:41):
where you left off and and andgather where that is.
So I think that there's a lotof value there.
I think that I'm getting readyto read.
This Is Strategy by Seth Godin,but he's been talking a lot
about like.
His blog doesn't need to reacheverybody.
It doesn't need to go viral,right.
It has to reach the rightpeople and if it's five people,
that's fine, right, becausethey're the right people and so
(27:04):
as long as he's got value, he'sgoing to keep writing his blog
and I think that that'simportant.
I think that writing is hugelyimportant.
I think AI-assisted content isfine.
Ai-generated content is not, aswe've covered a little bit,
because I think that it's reallyabout your voice, your
experience and who you are andmaking sure that that's included
(27:26):
, so very cool.
Thank you so much, john.
I love all of the tips thatyou've given, and so everybody
go on Amazon, buy a dictionaryso that you have one on hand If
you don't have one already.
Make sure you're reading fromthe bottom up, and that's all,
after taking a step back fromyour writing for at least a day,
and I think that those tips canserve us all well, whether
(27:47):
we're using AI assisted or 100%human generated content, to make
sure that it's what we need forour customers.
But before I let you go, thereis a question that I ask all of
my guests, and that is this showis called Imperfect Marketing,
because marketing is anythingbut a perfect science.
What has been your biggestmarketing lesson?
Speaker 2 (28:09):
My biggest lesson actually ties into the title of
the podcast.
The biggest thing I learnedabout marketing was you just
have to get started.
So I have not found marketingthe kind of thing where you can
develop the perfect plan beforeyou start.
In my experience again assomeone who's learning it on the
fly is, yeah, you can have aplan going in and that's fine,
(28:29):
but hold it loosely, because I'malways working on my marketing,
I'm always refining it, butit's never perfect, and if you
wait till it's perfect, you'renever going to start.
So just get started.
Just write that next post, justsend that next email, just do
it.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Yeah, I was talking to somebody the other day and I
said we were talking about theirpodcast and it's just to get
started.
You're not going to like yourfirst episode.
You're not in 10 episodes, butyou got to get through that
first episode to get to episode10, where you don't like number
one, and that's okay becausenobody's listening to number one
anyway, so it's all good.
So thank you so much, john, foryour time.
(29:08):
We will have ways to get incontact with John in the show
notes, so be sure to check thatand no matter where you're
listening or watching, it wouldhelp us if you would rate and
subscribe.
We would love to see you againon another episode of Imperfect
Marketing.
Until next time, have a greatrest of your day.
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