July 19, 2025 • 37 mins
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Have you ever shared something deeply personal with your partner, only to have them immediately respond with their own story? This hidden communication pattern—conversational narcissism—might be quietly destroying your PMDD relationship.
Conversational narcissism isn't about being a narcissist. It's a subtle communication habit where one person consistently redirects conversations back to themselves, often without realizing it. When your partner vulnerably shares they're exhausted during their luteal phase and you respond with "I'm tired too" before launching into your day, you're hijacking their moment of openness. This pattern leaves partners feeling unheard, invalidated, and eventually, completely alone in the relationship.
Both the partner with PMDD and the partner without it can fall into this damaging pattern. It manifests as competing over who's suffering more, interrupting vulnerable moments to share similar experiences, or subtly changing the subject when emotions get uncomfortable. The result? A relationship where true connection becomes impossible, and both partners feel increasingly isolated despite technically being together.
Breaking free from conversational narcissism starts with the 80/20 rule—aim to listen 80% of the time when your partner is being vulnerable. Instead of jumping to share your experience, try saying, "Tell me more about what you're feeling right now." This simple shift keeps the focus where it belongs and creates the emotional safety that PMDD relationships desperately need. Other powerful tools include repeating back what you heard before adding thoughts, asking clarifying questions, and using timers to ensure balanced conversation.
Ready to transform your communication patterns and create true connection? Let go of the pride that prevents accountability. When both partners commit to empathetic listening instead of conversation hijacking, the relationship fundamentally changes—creating space where both people feel seen, heard, and truly understood through every phase of the cycle.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today I want to talk about communication within your
PMDD relationships and one ofthe main mistakes that I have
been seeing.
That happens for both thepartner that has premenstrual
dysphoric disorder and thepartner that does not, and this
is something that I'm going tointroduce to you, that I have
specifically done in the pastwhen I'm in my luteal phase, and
(00:21):
then also I've had partnersthat have done this too, and
it's a common mistake.
So this can actually be doneconsciously or subconsciously,
but a lot of times the damagethat it does to your PMDD
relationship over time.
If you see a pattern of this,you get really frustrated, you
get really overwhelmed and youstart to maybe think,
(00:42):
specifically in the luteal phase, that your partner is doing it
on purpose.
That's what I've seen.
Most common is that you'reassuming that because your
partner is doing this duringcommunication, that they're
doing it on purpose.
So let me just define it firstof all.
So, first and foremost, pleasedon't get turned off by the name
.
I remember when I wasresearching this, because I
(01:03):
noticed a couple of my clientswere doing it and I was seeing a
pattern of it, and when Irecognized what it was, I was
like, oh my goodness, they'regoing to get turned off by the
name of it, because I thinksometimes when you hear the name
of what this is, then you'llstart to say, oh, that's not me,
or I don't do that, or you know, because you don't want to be
associated with the name of it.
(01:25):
But what I always tell you isyou cannot heal what you don't
reveal.
If you don't come to terms withthe things that you're doing in
your PMDD relationship, ifyou're not willing to take
accountability no matter howugly it sounds, no matter how
ugly it looks then you're notgoing to be willing to make the
changes that you need to make inorder to make your relationship
better.
This is another common mistake,and I'll talk about this a
(01:46):
little bit later on.
It's not taking accountabilityfor the things that your partner
is saying that you're doing inthe PMDD relationship.
But just because you don'tperceive that you're doing
anything, you're like oh no, no,I'm not doing it.
But when you're in a PMDDrelationship, just because you
(02:19):
don't think that you're doingsomething wrong doesn't mean
that you're not doing somethingwrong.
If your partner is calling youout on certain things or saying
that certain things aretriggering them, they need to be
it that way, but explain to memore.
What is it that you'reperceiving that I'm doing, so
that I can correct it, because Idon't want to cause you
suffering.
This is when it comes toaccepting accountability and not
being so prideful, becausethat's what it is.
(02:39):
It's pride that's stopping youfrom admitting that you're doing
things that are triggering yourpartner, and I understand why
because you don't want to beperceived as someone who would
cause your partner suffering.
I get that Maybe you have pureintentions and you're not
intentionally triggering yourpartner and all of these things,
but just because you're notdoing it on purpose doesn't mean
that it's not occurring in yourPMDD relationship, and there's
(03:02):
nothing wrong with admittingthat you're doing something that
triggers your partner.
It doesn't mean that you'redoing it on purpose.
It doesn't mean that you're abad person.
It doesn't mean that you're notaccountable.
It doesn't mean that youshouldn't be together.
It doesn't mean all of thesenegative connotations.
It just means that there'ssomething that needs to be
addressed so that things can bedone differently, so that you're
not triggered in your PMDDrelationship and also that your
(03:25):
needs are met.
Okay, so that's the first thing.
So let's get into what thislooks like.
Have you ever been in aconversation with your partner
whether you're the partner thathas premenstrual dysphoric
disorder or you're the partnerthat doesn't and you start to
say that you're suffering withsomething?
You're like oh my gosh, I'm soexhausted, right, I used to do
(03:46):
this a lot with having fatigue.
Fatigue was something thatstill hits me really hard
because I go from having reallyhigh energy to really low energy
.
So it's very apparent that whenI'm trying to do even little
things, like everything's harder.
So I used to say to my partnerlike, oh my gosh, I'm so
exhausted.
And then they would in turn say, yeah, I'm exhausted too.
(04:10):
I had a hard day, I had to dothis and I had to do that and I
didn't get good sleep last nightand all of these other things.
So it was almost a situationwhere they would kind of hijack
the conversation, where I wasexpressing how I was feeling
about the state that I was in,because I was suffering in my
luteal phase, and they were inturn, countering that by saying
that they were also sufferingbecause of something that they
(04:31):
had going on in their life.
And so I would immediatelyshift my concern from the state
that I'm in and go to okay, well, is there something that you
need me to do?
And all of these things.
So the attention would be takenoff of me and put onto my
partner.
From the outside, looking in, itdoesn't seem like there's
anything wrong with that, but ifthere's a pattern of every
single time that you'rementioning your suffering, that
(04:54):
your partner is in turn tellingyou how they're suffering as
well, then that's going to be aproblem in your PMDD
relationship and we're going totalk about what that looks like.
What this is is a habit ofsteering the conversation
towards another person, meaningI'm talking about me, I'm
talking about my suffering, ormy partner's talking about him,
(05:14):
he's talking about his suffering, and then I pull away and say,
yeah, well, I'm also suffering,or what about me?
I have this going on, or Ididn't sleep good either.
So it's a subtle, self-centeredcommunication pattern where a
person consistently redirectsthe focus, interrupts you,
minimizes or monopolizes thedialogue, often without
(05:36):
realizing it.
So they're doing this withoutrealizing that I keep hijacking
the attention off of you in therelationship, in the realms of
the conversation, and I'mputting it back on me.
Okay, so in PMDD relationships,communication is already
strained during the luteal phaseand other phases of the cycle
because you're walking oneggshells and you don't know
(05:57):
what to say or what not to sayto not trigger your partner.
But what this is isconversational narcissism.
Remember what I said about thetitle don't get so hooked up on
the title that you don'tactually take accountability or
even reflect a little bit right.
I remember when I heard this Iwas like I'm not a narcissist.
Just because you do thisdoesn't mean that you are a
(06:18):
narcissist.
This is a narcissistic traitthat happens in conversations.
Again doesn't mean that you'rediagnosed with NPD narcissistic
personality disorder but this issomething that narcissists do
when they're communicating withtheir partners or people that
they're in relationships withwhether it's parent, child,
intimate partners and it's very,very common.
(06:39):
So the reason why I'm tellingyou about this is because it's
often done subconsciously,meaning it's not done on purpose
, and if you don't recognizethat you're doing it, you're
going to continue to do it and,being that you're in a PMDD
relationship, communication isalready probably an issue that
you have.
So if you can recognize thisand change it and catch yourself
(07:00):
, then it's really going to helpyou get to that point where
you're not consistently doing itand it's not causing damage to
your PMDD relationship.
So let's get into some otherways of what that looks like.
So the first example is what Iwas talking about earlier, which
is hijacking the vulnerability,meaning I've been feeling so
down and anxious and I'm noteven sure why.
So this could be the individualthat has premenstrual dysphoric
(07:24):
disorder, or the other partnerthat doesn't have PNDD, but
they're just telling you howthey feel, they're being open
and vulnerable about how they'refeeling, and then the partner
that is doing thisconversational narcissism.
It's like, yeah, I know whatyou mean.
That's how I felt last yearwhen I lost my job.
It was really rough, you know I,you know I actually had this
(07:44):
issue happen for me when I had aback injury.
If you don't, if you don'tremember, if you go back, like
probably a year ago, I had aherniated disc injury and I was
dating someone and I I think itwas early on when I was dating
and I was basically letting themknow like, hey, I just had this
(08:07):
injury.
If you see that I'm kind oflike walking a little bit slower
, I think we're going hiking orsomething, and I mentioned that
I was basically working outdoing a deadlift and when I
stood up I heard a pop and therewas this pain that came rushing
down my leg.
And that's when I went to thedoctor.
I went to the emergency room, Ihad an MRI and they said that I
(08:30):
herniated my disc and it wasvery painful and I was.
It took me months to recoverfrom that.
So when I told the person thatI was dating that, they turned
the conversation into theirstruggle instead of validating
my experience.
So we're like oh yeah, Iremember this injury that I had,
you know, back in high schoolwhen I was playing football, and
I had the same injury.
(08:50):
And I'm just going to let youknow that.
You know, it's going to takeyou years to recover, like it's
been over 10 years since I'vehad it and I still feel pain.
And they went into this wholestory that had everything to do
with them and nothing to do withme.
They went into this whole storythat had everything to do with
them and nothing to do with me.
And not only that is, they puta lot of fear in me regarding
(09:12):
the injury that I had.
Like, all of a sudden, I wasnow freaked out because they're
now telling me that, based offof what happened with their
injury, that I wasn't going torecover in a certain amount of
time and I was going to beliving with this injury for the
rest of my life, and they wentdown this whole rabbit hole.
Number one it put a lot of fearinto me, but then they were
like hijacking my vulnerablemoment.
I was trying to be open andvulnerable with them about the
(09:32):
suffering that I wasexperiencing and they, in turned
, turned it about their struggleand we never talked about my
back again, like I think we justwent deeper into his injuries,
and on and on and on.
This is very common for anarcissist, because they're
self-centered and they'reselfish and they put all the
attention on themselves,consciously or subconsciously.
So, as a conversationalnarcissist, this is what they're
(09:55):
consistently doing.
So this is how it reallydamages TMDD relationships.
If you do it once or twice, youprobably won't notice it, but
when I'm working with clients,they're describing this and
they're describing this andthey're saying there's a
consistent pattern of everysingle time I talk about my
symptoms.
Or maybe it's the partner thatdoesn't have PMDD.
Maybe they come home from along day's work and they're
(10:15):
saying that they're tired andyou're in your luteal phase and
you're like, yeah, I'm tired too, I'm exhausted, I didn't sleep
last night.
And then they go on and on andon about their issue and then it
turns the attention that hasnothing to do with them anymore,
or nothing to do with youanymore, it has everything to do
with them.
So that's the next thing iscentering their exhaustion.
(10:35):
So, you know, I might say like,oh, I'm exhausted and my brain
fog is so bad today in my lutealphase, like I have really bad
brain fog.
This is a very common thing in,you know, pmdd.
When you're in your luteal phase, your partner may in turn say,
well, yeah, I barely slept lastnight and I still went to work.
I mean, we're both tired.
I mean, obviously we're bothtired.
Like you know, we got a lotgoing on.
(10:56):
So it's almost like competingwith your partner's suffering
instead of empathizing.
There's a lack of empathy thereand it's more competition.
And I see that this is verycommon when partners are not
seeing that their needs aregetting met, despite you being
in your luteal phase, andthey're feeling like their needs
aren't met, despite they keepmentioning I would like more
(11:18):
attention, I would like moreaffection, I would like more
validation, and every singletime that they mentioned what
their needs are.
It's being turned into what I'msuffering, basically as an
excuse as to why they're notgetting their needs met.
Like, of course I'm not beingaffectionate with you, I'm in my
luteal phase.
Like, of course I don't feellike cuddling.
You know, I don't like beingtouched with them in my luteal
phase.
Or the partner that doesn't havePMDD, where you're saying like,
(11:40):
hey, I would really like toreconnect with you, or kind of
like spend more time with you,and they're like, oh, you know
I'm busy, I have to do this.
Or you know I'm the breadwinnerof the family.
Or you know I'm taking care ofthe kids all the time.
Or you don't take care of thekids.
So there's this competition ofchores.
This is very common in PMDDrelationships, where there's an
imbalance of who's doing whatwithin the household.
(12:01):
There's an imbalance of how itfeels, not necessarily about
who's doing more, but just thefeeling Like both partners may
end up feeling overwhelmed aboutthe task that they're taking on
to in their PMDD relationships.
And what we do in our privatesessions is I literally have a
worksheet and we literally writeout the chores and the
household duties that are goingto be done so that it feels
(12:22):
equal.
It doesn't matter about what itlooks like on paper.
It needs to feel equal to bothpartners so that they're not in
a space where they're feelinglike I'm doing all of this and
you're not doing anything,because that leads to
invalidation, it leads to a lackof intimacy, because you feel
stressed and overwhelmed.
Then that leads to feeling likeyou have a lack of support.
So when you have thisconversational narcissist,
(12:44):
there's almost this competitionabout who's doing more, like you
start mentioning what you'redoing and the other person's
mentioning what they're doing,and it's no longer about
supporting each other.
It's almost about proving thatI'm doing more than you, which
is validating why I'm exhausted.
So the next way that this canshow up is kind of redirecting
the topic.
So when you feel, when you'resaying a statement like so, say,
(13:07):
if you're the partner that haspremenstrual dysphoric disorder
and you're trying to bevulnerable with your partner
again, this is a lot of timeswhere this conversational
narcissism comes in is whenyou're open and vulnerable about
how the state that you're in.
So you, you know, you may saysomething like I feel like I'm
not myself right now.
Everything is really irritatingme.
Maybe you're in your lutealphase and you're like everything
(13:28):
is really irritating me rightnow.
Like I don't know what's goingon.
I just don't feel like myself.
And you're just expressing thisto your partner.
Well, the partner who has theconversational narcissism says
yeah, you have been actingdifferent, you know.
It reminds me of how my ex usedto be during her PMS.
It's really hard to deal with.
I had this happen to me a lotof times and this is me talking.
(13:53):
I know I'm doing the scriptingbecause I feel like it really
helps you all and now it helpsmy private clients.
But I had this.
I would start to be open andvulnerable with a partner and
they would almost use it againstme.
They would almost shame me forthe PMDD symptoms that I was
having.
Like I would be open and takeaccountability, like, yeah, I'm
feeling different, I'm feelingthis way.
(14:14):
And they're like, yeah, my exused to do this, you know, and
it was so hard for me and it'sso hard being with someone who
has mood swings and their moodsare up and down and I don't have
mood swings.
Like, my moods are always thesame.
So they make it about theirdiscomfort about being with you,
instead of addressing theemotional cry for support If I'm
being open and vulnerable andhonest with you about the state
(14:36):
that I'm in.
I'm doing that so that you canhelp me, not blame me and shame
me for the state that I'm in.
That I didn't ask for A lot oftimes.
When you're in your lutealphase and you're having these
symptoms, you're not asking tofeel like that, you're just
noticing that it's.
You're feeling off and what youwould want is for your partner
to empathize with the fact thatyou're feeling differently in a
way that you didn't ask for.
(14:56):
It's not based off of anythingthat you haven't done, like a
lack of self-care.
I know for me, when I wasexhausted, I could sleep for
hours and hours and hours andhours and still feel exhausted.
So it wasn't that I wasn'ttaking care of myself by
prioritizing my sleep.
It was just like when I'm in myluteal phase, I can sleep for a
very long time, like even now10 to 11 to 12 hours and still
(15:20):
feel exhausted.
But when you're redirecting theconversation to yeah, I'm tired
too, then it's like you have noempathy for the state that I'm
in.
Like I'm just explaining to youthat I'm so tired, I'm so
exhausted, that you almost get alittle bit like well, it
doesn't matter how much restthat I'm going to get, I'm still
going to be tired.
That was the state that I wasin.
I was literally feeling like Icould sleep for 12 hours and I'm
(15:43):
still going to be tired andexhausted.
And I wanted kind of someempathy with that, like, yeah,
that might be a little bit hardfor you, but what I was getting
was, yeah, I'm exhausted too, sokind of make it seem like
you're on the same.
You're even Like no one shouldfeel more bad about you than
them, right?
So the next thing that aconversational narcissist will
(16:06):
do, or someone who hasconversational narcissism, is
they interrupt you in order torelate, like you're telling a
story.
You may be saying somethinglike I'm scared, I'm pushing you
away again, and you're tryingto explain how you feel.
Like you're pushing yourpartner away because you're in
your luteal phase and maybeyou're not giving them enough
(16:26):
attention and you're feelingguilty about it.
And then they're like, yeah, Iget it.
I had the same fear with mylast relationship.
That's why I broke up with her.
And it's like wait a minute.
They're basically interruptingyour vulnerable moment to share
their past experience, whichisn't helpful in the moment,
like a lot of times when you'retrying to number one you need to
keep it present on your currentrelationship.
(16:48):
A lot of times when thingshappen have happened in the past
and you're seeing a pattern,you as a partner, you may freak
out and be like, oh my gosh,this is what's going to happen
again.
And then all of a sudden youstart talking about past
experiences, past relationshipsyou know, or even past
experiences that you've had inyour current relationship.
You may be saying, yeah, Iremember you used to do this all
(17:08):
the time.
Or here you go again.
I bet you're about to startshutting down on me.
I used to get that comment allthe time where I would just get
a little bit quiet and I'm like,yeah, I'm feeling a little bit
off and it's like, yeah, youknow how you get in your luteal
phase.
You know how you get in PMDD.
You know how you get in yourluteal phase.
You know how you get in PMDD.
I bet you're in PMDD right nowand sometimes I was in PMDD and
sometimes I wasn't.
But either way, getting blamedand shamed for the state that I
(17:28):
was in, was that conversationalnarcissism?
It was almost like interruptingwhat I'm saying and kind of
finishing my sentence Like yeah,I already know how you feel.
Like I don't even pretty muchlike saying I don't even need
you to finish explaining, Ialready know what's going on.
You're assuming that you knowwhat's going on.
So you're shutting down thatcommunication from your partner,
opening up to you and beingvulnerable because you feel like
(17:49):
you're one upping them Like oh,I already know what's going on
with you.
Like maybe you've done a lot ofresearch in PMDD and your
partner's trying to.
Who has PMDD is trying to say,hey, I'm feeling like this.
It's like I already know howyou're feeling because,
according to, according to myresearch, you know during this
phase of your cycle, you shouldfeel like this or you should
feel like that.
And it's like wait a minute,like give your partner the
(18:11):
opportunity and the chance toexpress themselves without
interrupting them and assumingthat you know how they're
feeling.
So this goes into the next one,which is the one upping.
This is very, very common.
You may say I cried three timestoday for no reason and then
your partner says you thinkthat's bad.
The partner with theconversational narcissism you
(18:34):
think that's bad?
I had to deal with two angryclients today, back to back, and
I didn't even get a break.
So they're basically dismissingthe feelings by competing with
their own stress and, to bequite honest, we all have
stressful situations in ourlives.
But if you're in competitionagain by saying you're digging
up things that you have going onin your life to compare to one
up and basically say what I havegoing on is more stressful than
(18:56):
what you have going on, so thenthe next thing is the
dismissive comparison.
Like the partner who has PMDDmay say I feel like I'm going
crazy every single month whenI'm in my luteal phase.
And then the partner may sayeveryone feels off sometimes,
like you're not the only one whohas emotions.
So basically they downplay andgeneralize what you're
experiencing instead ofvalidating the specific
(19:18):
experiences of PMDD.
They're saying just because youhave PMDD doesn't mean that
you're the only one that hasemotions.
And it's like well, I wasn'ttelling you that to say that I'm
the only one that has emotions,I wasn't mentioning that I'm
the only one suffering, I'm justtalking about the state that
I'm in.
So another thing isself-referencing advice.
(19:40):
So I don't know like thepartner who has PMDD might say I
don't know how to stop snappingadvice.
So I don't know, like thepartner who has, you know, pmdd
might say I don't know how tostop snapping at you.
I don't know how to stop goingoff on you.
Am I luteal phase?
Just every single time I'm inmy luteal phase, I'm in PMDD, I
end up going off on you.
And then your partner says, well, I used to be super reactive
too, you know, I just stoppedtaking things so seriously.
Maybe you should try that.
So they shift the focus totheir own success story, while
(20:04):
ignoring the state that you'rein, like you're being again.
You're being open andvulnerable and saying, hey, I'm
having a really hard time goingoff on you, and maybe they're a
partner who's been working onthemselves and now they're like,
hey, well, maybe you shouldjust try, you know, taking a
deep breath.
Or maybe you should try takinga walk, like I used to be like
that, but I'm not like thatanymore.
So maybe you should try that.
(20:28):
That's conversational narcissism, because you're taking the
focus off of what your partneris saying that they're
struggling with and putting onit on you and your own success
story and about all of the workthat you've been doing, by
overshadowing the state thatthey're in.
It's not their fault thatthey're having issues with still
going off.
That means they still have workto do.
But you don't need to blamethem and shame them by saying,
(20:48):
like you're in this place, likeyou're down here and I'm up here
, that's what is insinuatingthat you are the one that still
needs to do work.
I have already been in thatplace, been there, done that,
got the t-shirt.
So the next one is blamedisguises, empathy.
Like I feel like I'm ruiningour relationship every month,
right.
And then so maybe you're sayingthis, you're being open and
(21:09):
vulnerable and say I really feellike I'm I'm ruining our
relationship every month.
And then the partner is sayingyou know, I mean, it does get
really hard to be around yousometimes.
I try, but it's not easy for meeither.
Like I have a really hard timebeing around you.
So I could see why you feellike you're ruining our
relationship.
So they're subtly centeringtheir own suffering instead of
(21:30):
creating a safe space for you tohave that kind of confession
and that openness and thatvulnerability.
Because what's happening herein every scenario is one partner
is being open and vulnerableabout the state that they're in,
and then the conversationalnarcissist will blame them and
shame them for the state thatthey're in instead of having
empathy.
And then the next thing ischanging the subject.
(21:51):
This is really common.
When you're kind of walking oneggshells and you're dealing
with someone that doesn't reallywant to address emotions, right
, they're like I feel so aloneright now.
And then the partner will saydid you see that new show on
Netflix?
It might cheer you up, like,maybe you should just go watch a
show, maybe you should watch amovie.
So they're basicallyemotionally disconnecting
(22:12):
instead of staying present inthe discomfort with their
partner.
Or maybe their partner issaying you know, I'm feeling
really lonely right now and it'slike okay, babe, I'm about to
go to the store, do you needanything?
It's like wait a minute, I'mbeing open and vulnerable.
This is a cry for emotions.
I'm trying to get my needs met.
I'm trying to connect with youand you're immediately changing
the subject.
You're immediately emotionallydisconnecting because you feel
like you don't want to deal withthose emotions right now.
(22:34):
And then the next thing we haveis the performative listening,
where you may say I need to talkabout what happened yesterday.
It's really upsetting me.
And then your partner says,okay, sure, but can we make it
quick?
I got a lot going on too, sothat they're offering a shallow
space that centers their timeand their convenience, not true
presence.
So now, if you bring somethingup, you know that they're
(22:56):
rushing to get through it in theconversation.
Like maybe I've had this happenwith a client where they're
like, hey, you know, we need tohave a session with Dr Rose
about what happened, you know,last week, like it's still
really bothering me and I reallywant to talk about it in a safe
space, and they're like wedon't need to, we don't need to
go on a session, let's just talkabout it right now.
So they're thinking that theycould just, instead of having a
session where we go in depthwith what happened in the
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relationship, they're thinkingthat they could just have a
quick talk about it and thenthat's it.
A lot of times when you go onprivate sessions with me, you
know they're typically 90minutes and it takes 90 minutes
or more to really get to thedepth of just one scenario, to
get to a place where I'munderstanding where you both are
coming from and then giving youthe tools about what you can do
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moving forward.
But it's not a quickconversation.
It's not like, hey, this iswhat happened, give us the
advice.
It's not a quick fix, but a lotof times when you have this
conversational narcissist,they're only willing to go
surface level on the issue.
They're not willing to get intodepths about what happened.
Because you have to be open andyou have to be.
You're basically admitting like, yeah, I probably handled the
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situation wrong.
So overall, when it comes toconversational narcissism,
you're invalidating yourpartner's experience.
When the partner is consistentlyredirecting the conversation
back to themselves, your partneris feeling invisible.
They're feeling not heard.
They're feeling not seen.
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They're feeling not seen.
They're feeling not supportedand then they're going to begin
to shut down communication.
They're going to say, well,it's always going to end up
being about them.
So what's the point?
What is the point?
So it leads to a lack ofemotional safety.
Then they don't feel safeopening up their emotions to you
because they feel like theiremotions are going to get
hijacked.
They're going to get hijacked,they're going to get redirected.
All of these examples that I'vegiven to you.
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Your partner is going to beginto assume that this is what's
going to happen in therelationship and it doesn't feel
good.
I've been there.
It does not feel good to be onthe other end of trying to be
open and connecting with yourpartner and feeling like you're
getting shut down, feeling likeyour emotions don't matter, and
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so it's going to fuel themonthly PMDD breakups and the
conflict.
So eventually one person iseither going to explode in rage
because they're going to feellike they're not getting seen
and heard, or they're just goingto shut down communication.
So they try to talk, they'reinterrupted, they're talked over
, they're dismissed.
They feel rejected, they feelnot seen, not heard, their
partner is calling themirrational, their partner is
calling them dramatic, all ofthese things.
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So you start to not even trustcommunication with your partner
because it doesn't feel good.
So it leads to emotionalexhaustion for both of you.
Both of you are going to beexhausted with having
communications where you're notfeeling seen, you're not feeling
heard and it's going to breakdown the intimacy.
Part of intimacy iscommunication.
It basically means that you'reable to go to your partner and
say, hey, this is what I havegoing on and you're feeling like
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your partner really hears you.
You're feeling like yourpartner really sees you.
But when you're having thispattern of conversational
narcissism, it's like you'regoing into the conversation
trying to connect, but you'renever really connected.
So then you're in arelationship but you feel lonely
.
You feel lonely in therelationship.
Even though you're technicallyin the relationship, even though
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you go to talk to your partner,you still feel like you're
alone.
You still feel like you have todeal with everything that goes
on emotionally in therelationship by yourself,
because your partner doesn't getit.
And it's kind of like thismasking where the partner who
does the conversationalnarcissism is like oh yeah, I
totally know how you feel.
I went through the same thingand a lot of times.
Your partner hasn't gonethrough the same thing and you
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can't assume and you shouldn'tassume, even if you've gone
through something similar, youcan still need to get to a place
where you're listening to whatis going on with your partner,
even if you feel like you knowthat your partner is suffering
and maybe they're suffering withthe same pattern every month.
So you're like, oh, here theygo again.
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I'm going to give you sometools about what you can do when
you find yourself in thispattern, and what I want you to
do is let go of the pride, letgo of the ego.
If you find yourself in thissituation where some of the
scenarios that I've mentionedyou're commonly doing them.
Don't feel bad about yourself.
Just take accountability andsay this is something that I
need to work on.
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So the first tool is if younotice that you have this
pattern of doing theconversational narcissism is the
80-20 rule.
What that means is when you'regoing into communication with
your partner and you know thatthey're trying to open up with
you, you know they're trying tobe vulnerable.
You know they want to feel seen, they want to feel heard, aim
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to listen 80% of the time andspeak 20%.
So an example of this is whenyour partner is coming to you
and they're saying somethinglike oh, you know I'm feeling
horrible this month, or you knowI'm feeling really stressed out
, instead of you immediatelyinterjecting and saying, yeah,
that's just like when I, youknow, was going to work today.
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Like, don't say that.
Instead of, instead of goingoff into a story about what's
going on with you, say tell memore about what you're feeling
right now.
The reason why conversationalnarcissism is so common for
narcissists is because it's allabout them and there is a lack
of empathy in theircommunication.
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This is the missing link.
The tools that I'm going togive you is leaning into being
an empathetic PMDD partner.
This is for the partner thathas premenstrual dysphoric
disorder or the partner thatdoesn't.
When you have conversationalnarcissism, your responses are
not immediately empathetic.
You're always thinking aboutyourself.
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You're always thinking, like Isaid, about how to one-up them
or how to compare or how tocompete or do all of these
things, because it's all aboutyou and how the situation is
making you look.
So when you do this, when yousay, tell me more about how
you're feeling right now, itreduces the urge to hijack the
conversation.
You may have the urge becauseyou may have been in a habit of
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doing this.
When you find yourself talkingabout yourself, like that's just
like when I you can kind ofpull it back and say you know
what?
Tell me more about what you'refeeling right now.
Keep the focus on one of yourpartner's experience.
Remember they came to talk toyou.
And even if you came to talk tothem and they start talking
about things that are going onwith them, keep the focus on
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them for a minute.
Just let them get out howthey're experiencing and then
you can move back on to what'sgoing on with you.
So the next tool is to repeatback what you heard before
adding your own thoughts, right.
So basically, what you'resaying is so you're feeling
overwhelmed and scared, I'llpull away again, is that right?
So you're asking the questionto make sure that what you're
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perceiving that they're sayingin your mind is actually what
they're saying.
This helps show the otherperson, your partner, that
you're hearing them, you'reunderstanding them and you're
keeping the focus on theiremotions.
The next thing that's reallygoing to help you when your
partner starts to say somethingyou know where they're being
open and vulnerable, about howthey're feeling, really take a
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deep breath and count towhatever you need to count to
and really, when you notice thatyou have this pattern, ask
yourself am I responding tosupport or am I shifting the
focus on myself?
I had to do this because mypartner was coming to me with a
lot of complaining and I had ahard time with hearing
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complaining because it soundedreally negative to me and I
really had to understand thatsometimes people have the
personality that complaining ispart of how they process things.
I don't process things likethat.
I process things internally,and so I had to really
understand what my partner wasneeding.
My partner was really needingme to keep the focus on them.
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They weren't needing me to fixtheir situation.
They weren't needing me to givethem advice.
They were needing me to justlisten to what it is that they
had going on, and that wasreally, really hard for me.
So I used this tool.
Instead of interrupting themand instead of getting the
impulse to try to fix it forthem or offer them advice, I
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just listened and the next thingI did I used like a timer.
This really worked.
Meaning, if you know that yourpartner has something to talk to
you about and say, if they wantto talk about an issue that you
had last week, like aconversation that you had, use a
little timer.
I've done this in clientsessions where each partner gets
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like five minutes to tell theirside of the story.
You're not going to interruptand you just say let's take five
minutes, and what this does isit creates a balance in the
communication and it ensuresboth of you are heard without
the irritability and the stressof the other person interrupting
them with their emotionalresponse.
A lot of times, if you're andI've seen this on sessions where
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you're trying to say whathappened in the situation and
the partner immediately puts thefocus no, this is what really
happened.
Or you know, dr Rose, this iswhat really happened.
No, I put the other person onmute, I give a timer and I allow
that person to get the fullstory of what happened,
according to their view, andthen I'll go to the other
partner and I say what is yourversion of that story?
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That's the next thing you do.
If you notice that you're inthat realm of that
conversational narcissism, isyou ask clarifying questions,
what part of that felt mostintense for you?
You're keeping the conversationcentered on your partner's
experience instead of putting itback on your experience.
You're asking them what part ofthat triggered you the most.
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When I did that, your partneris going to be really
appreciative because they'regoing to think that you care
enough to ask how your actionstriggered them, without trying
to defend yourself and gettingdefensive, right?
Okay so, and then the nextthing you can do is use these
mantras so I'm always big onmantras right?
You say I want to understandand I don't want to interrupt
you.
So, basically, are you sayingthis?
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Okay, so you're lettingyourself know that this is what
you're doing.
This moment is about hearing you, not fixing you.
You're telling your partnerwhat your intentions are.
I'm in this conversation tohear you.
I'm not trying to fix you.
I'm in this conversation tohear you.
I'm not trying to fix you.
I'm just trying to understandwhere you're coming from.
It resets your intentions, notonly to your partner but also to
yourself.
When you feel tempted to makeit about you, you can literally
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say out loud okay, I'm here tohear what's going on with you.
I'm in this conversation tohear what's going on with you.
And then the next thing you cando is practice you-focused
responses Shift.
The next thing you can do ispractice you-focused responses.
Shift the I to you.
When your partner is being openand vulnerable, say you've been
caring so much today I can seehow heavy that is.
That's very empathetic.
That's an empathetic responseversus I know how that is, I had
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a bad day too.
When you find yourselfimpulsively doing this, getting
into that conversationalnarcissism, remember your
responses are supposed to putthe focus on your partner, not
yourself.
And I know you may be thinkinglike oh my goodness, then when
am I going to get my feelingsheard?
When am I going to get myemotions heard?
When you focus more aboutpouring into your partner, your
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needs are automatically going tobe met, because when your
partner feels seen and heard,then they go to those prompts of
trying to lean into you.
Once your partner feels seenand heard, then they'll probably
come to you and say you know,thanks for listening to me.
How are you feeling about that?
Or you know, however, they talklike you know, not being very
generic, but just say yeah, Iunderstand that this is probably
hard for you too.
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And then the next thing is thelast one is designate times to
have these conversations right.
Create specific days to haveconversations about things that
are going on in your PMDDrelationship.
This is the prime time to havethose sessions with me.
When my clients are havingsessions with me, they're
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talking about the issues thatare going on in their
relationship that are really,really hard, and maybe they
don't want to talk about themduring certain phases of their
cycles, during their lutealphase, during PMDD, because they
want to have a safe space.
Well, when you do that, you'rebasically making the focus about
your partner.
When we have the sessions, Ipretty much do all the work for
you.
I create the timers, I makesure that both partners feel
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heard, I make sure that you getthe tools, I make sure that it
doesn't become all about onepartner and not the other.
And it really helps you to getout of the cycle because when
you have the private sessionswith me, you get used to having
conversations that are notcentered around conversational
narcissism it's not centeredaround these bad habits and then
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when you create the pattern onthe private sessions, when you
start talking to your partner,you start using the tools again
and again, and again, and itmakes it easier to get rid of
the conversational narcissismthat's so damaging to your PMDD
relationship and just talk toyour partner in a way that's
more empathetic.
Your partner feels more seen,they feel more heard, they feel
more validated, they feel moresupported and then, in turn,
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both partners get their needsmet in the PMDD relationship.
Again, if this is somethingthat you need help with, we're
still in the month of July.
I have about four privatesessions that are available
right now on the books.
You don't have to use a code.
I know a lot of you were DMingme and talking about.
You want to use the $100 offfor the sessions.
I have already marked it down.
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All you have to do is go toinlovewithpmddcom, get those
private sessions and I will seeyou in there Until next time.
We got this.
I love you.
Today I want to talk about communication within your
PMDD relationships and one ofthe main mistakes that I have
been seeing.
That happens for both thepartner that has premenstrual
dysphoric disorder and thepartner that does not, and this
is something that I'm going tointroduce to you, that I have
specifically done in the pastwhen I'm in my luteal phase, and
(00:21):
then also I've had partnersthat have done this too, and
it's a common mistake.
So this can actually be doneconsciously or subconsciously,
but a lot of times the damagethat it does to your PMDD
relationship over time.
If you see a pattern of this,you get really frustrated, you
get really overwhelmed and youstart to maybe think,
(00:42):
specifically in the luteal phase, that your partner is doing it
on purpose.
That's what I've seen.
Most common is that you'reassuming that because your
partner is doing this duringcommunication, that they're
doing it on purpose.
So let me just define it firstof all.
So, first and foremost, pleasedon't get turned off by the name
.
I remember when I wasresearching this, because I
(01:03):
noticed a couple of my clientswere doing it and I was seeing a
pattern of it, and when Irecognized what it was, I was
like, oh my goodness, they'regoing to get turned off by the
name of it, because I thinksometimes when you hear the name
of what this is, then you'llstart to say, oh, that's not me,
or I don't do that, or you know, because you don't want to be
associated with the name of it.
(01:25):
But what I always tell you isyou cannot heal what you don't
reveal.
If you don't come to terms withthe things that you're doing in
your PMDD relationship, ifyou're not willing to take
accountability no matter howugly it sounds, no matter how
ugly it looks then you're notgoing to be willing to make the
changes that you need to make inorder to make your relationship
better.
This is another common mistake,and I'll talk about this a
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little bit later on.
It's not taking accountabilityfor the things that your partner
is saying that you're doing inthe PMDD relationship.
But just because you don'tperceive that you're doing
anything, you're like oh no, no,I'm not doing it.
But when you're in a PMDDrelationship, just because you
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don't think that you're doingsomething wrong doesn't mean
that you're not doing somethingwrong.
If your partner is calling youout on certain things or saying
that certain things aretriggering them, they need to be
it that way, but explain to memore.
What is it that you'reperceiving that I'm doing, so
that I can correct it, because Idon't want to cause you
suffering.
This is when it comes toaccepting accountability and not
being so prideful, becausethat's what it is.
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It's pride that's stopping youfrom admitting that you're doing
things that are triggering yourpartner, and I understand why
because you don't want to beperceived as someone who would
cause your partner suffering.
I get that Maybe you have pureintentions and you're not
intentionally triggering yourpartner and all of these things,
but just because you're notdoing it on purpose doesn't mean
that it's not occurring in yourPMDD relationship, and there's
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nothing wrong with admittingthat you're doing something that
triggers your partner.
It doesn't mean that you'redoing it on purpose.
It doesn't mean that you're abad person.
It doesn't mean that you're notaccountable.
It doesn't mean that youshouldn't be together.
It doesn't mean all of thesenegative connotations.
It just means that there'ssomething that needs to be
addressed so that things can bedone differently, so that you're
not triggered in your PMDDrelationship and also that your
(03:25):
needs are met.
Okay, so that's the first thing.
So let's get into what thislooks like.
Have you ever been in aconversation with your partner
whether you're the partner thathas premenstrual dysphoric
disorder or you're the partnerthat doesn't and you start to
say that you're suffering withsomething?
You're like oh my gosh, I'm soexhausted, right, I used to do
(03:46):
this a lot with having fatigue.
Fatigue was something thatstill hits me really hard
because I go from having reallyhigh energy to really low energy
.
So it's very apparent that whenI'm trying to do even little
things, like everything's harder.
So I used to say to my partnerlike, oh my gosh, I'm so
exhausted.
And then they would in turn say, yeah, I'm exhausted too.
(04:10):
I had a hard day, I had to dothis and I had to do that and I
didn't get good sleep last nightand all of these other things.
So it was almost a situationwhere they would kind of hijack
the conversation, where I wasexpressing how I was feeling
about the state that I was in,because I was suffering in my
luteal phase, and they were inturn, countering that by saying
that they were also sufferingbecause of something that they
(04:31):
had going on in their life.
And so I would immediatelyshift my concern from the state
that I'm in and go to okay, well, is there something that you
need me to do?
And all of these things.
So the attention would be takenoff of me and put onto my
partner.
From the outside, looking in, itdoesn't seem like there's
anything wrong with that, but ifthere's a pattern of every
single time that you'rementioning your suffering, that
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your partner is in turn tellingyou how they're suffering as
well, then that's going to be aproblem in your PMDD
relationship and we're going totalk about what that looks like.
What this is is a habit ofsteering the conversation
towards another person, meaningI'm talking about me, I'm
talking about my suffering, ormy partner's talking about him,
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he's talking about his suffering, and then I pull away and say,
yeah, well, I'm also suffering,or what about me?
I have this going on, or Ididn't sleep good either.
So it's a subtle, self-centeredcommunication pattern where a
person consistently redirectsthe focus, interrupts you,
minimizes or monopolizes thedialogue, often without
(05:36):
realizing it.
So they're doing this withoutrealizing that I keep hijacking
the attention off of you in therelationship, in the realms of
the conversation, and I'mputting it back on me.
Okay, so in PMDD relationships,communication is already
strained during the luteal phaseand other phases of the cycle
because you're walking oneggshells and you don't know
(05:57):
what to say or what not to sayto not trigger your partner.
But what this is isconversational narcissism.
Remember what I said about thetitle don't get so hooked up on
the title that you don'tactually take accountability or
even reflect a little bit right.
I remember when I heard this Iwas like I'm not a narcissist.
Just because you do thisdoesn't mean that you are a
(06:18):
narcissist.
This is a narcissistic traitthat happens in conversations.
Again doesn't mean that you'rediagnosed with NPD narcissistic
personality disorder but this issomething that narcissists do
when they're communicating withtheir partners or people that
they're in relationships withwhether it's parent, child,
intimate partners and it's very,very common.
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So the reason why I'm tellingyou about this is because it's
often done subconsciously,meaning it's not done on purpose
, and if you don't recognizethat you're doing it, you're
going to continue to do it and,being that you're in a PMDD
relationship, communication isalready probably an issue that
you have.
So if you can recognize thisand change it and catch yourself
(07:00):
, then it's really going to helpyou get to that point where
you're not consistently doing itand it's not causing damage to
your PMDD relationship.
So let's get into some otherways of what that looks like.
So the first example is what Iwas talking about earlier, which
is hijacking the vulnerability,meaning I've been feeling so
down and anxious and I'm noteven sure why.
So this could be the individualthat has premenstrual dysphoric
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disorder, or the other partnerthat doesn't have PNDD, but
they're just telling you howthey feel, they're being open
and vulnerable about how they'refeeling, and then the partner
that is doing thisconversational narcissism.
It's like, yeah, I know whatyou mean.
That's how I felt last yearwhen I lost my job.
It was really rough, you know I,you know I actually had this
(07:44):
issue happen for me when I had aback injury.
If you don't, if you don'tremember, if you go back, like
probably a year ago, I had aherniated disc injury and I was
dating someone and I I think itwas early on when I was dating
and I was basically letting themknow like, hey, I just had this
(08:07):
injury.
If you see that I'm kind oflike walking a little bit slower
, I think we're going hiking orsomething, and I mentioned that
I was basically working outdoing a deadlift and when I
stood up I heard a pop and therewas this pain that came rushing
down my leg.
And that's when I went to thedoctor.
I went to the emergency room, Ihad an MRI and they said that I
(08:30):
herniated my disc and it wasvery painful and I was.
It took me months to recoverfrom that.
So when I told the person thatI was dating that, they turned
the conversation into theirstruggle instead of validating
my experience.
So we're like oh yeah, Iremember this injury that I had,
you know, back in high schoolwhen I was playing football, and
I had the same injury.
(08:50):
And I'm just going to let youknow that.
You know, it's going to takeyou years to recover, like it's
been over 10 years since I'vehad it and I still feel pain.
And they went into this wholestory that had everything to do
with them and nothing to do withme.
They went into this whole storythat had everything to do with
them and nothing to do with me.
And not only that is, they puta lot of fear in me regarding
(09:12):
the injury that I had.
Like, all of a sudden, I wasnow freaked out because they're
now telling me that, based offof what happened with their
injury, that I wasn't going torecover in a certain amount of
time and I was going to beliving with this injury for the
rest of my life, and they wentdown this whole rabbit hole.
Number one it put a lot of fearinto me, but then they were
like hijacking my vulnerablemoment.
I was trying to be open andvulnerable with them about the
(09:32):
suffering that I wasexperiencing and they, in turned
, turned it about their struggleand we never talked about my
back again, like I think we justwent deeper into his injuries,
and on and on and on.
This is very common for anarcissist, because they're
self-centered and they'reselfish and they put all the
attention on themselves,consciously or subconsciously.
So, as a conversationalnarcissist, this is what they're
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consistently doing.
So this is how it reallydamages TMDD relationships.
If you do it once or twice, youprobably won't notice it, but
when I'm working with clients,they're describing this and
they're describing this andthey're saying there's a
consistent pattern of everysingle time I talk about my
symptoms.
Or maybe it's the partner thatdoesn't have PMDD.
Maybe they come home from along day's work and they're
(10:15):
saying that they're tired andyou're in your luteal phase and
you're like, yeah, I'm tired too, I'm exhausted, I didn't sleep
last night.
And then they go on and on andon about their issue and then it
turns the attention that hasnothing to do with them anymore,
or nothing to do with youanymore, it has everything to do
with them.
So that's the next thing iscentering their exhaustion.
(10:35):
So, you know, I might say like,oh, I'm exhausted and my brain
fog is so bad today in my lutealphase, like I have really bad
brain fog.
This is a very common thing in,you know, pmdd.
When you're in your luteal phase, your partner may in turn say,
well, yeah, I barely slept lastnight and I still went to work.
I mean, we're both tired.
I mean, obviously we're bothtired.
Like you know, we got a lotgoing on.
(10:56):
So it's almost like competingwith your partner's suffering
instead of empathizing.
There's a lack of empathy thereand it's more competition.
And I see that this is verycommon when partners are not
seeing that their needs aregetting met, despite you being
in your luteal phase, andthey're feeling like their needs
aren't met, despite they keepmentioning I would like more
(11:18):
attention, I would like moreaffection, I would like more
validation, and every singletime that they mentioned what
their needs are.
It's being turned into what I'msuffering, basically as an
excuse as to why they're notgetting their needs met.
Like, of course I'm not beingaffectionate with you, I'm in my
luteal phase.
Like, of course I don't feellike cuddling.
You know, I don't like beingtouched with them in my luteal
phase.
Or the partner that doesn't havePMDD, where you're saying like,
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hey, I would really like toreconnect with you, or kind of
like spend more time with you,and they're like, oh, you know
I'm busy, I have to do this.
Or you know I'm the breadwinnerof the family.
Or you know I'm taking care ofthe kids all the time.
Or you don't take care of thekids.
So there's this competition ofchores.
This is very common in PMDDrelationships, where there's an
imbalance of who's doing whatwithin the household.
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There's an imbalance of how itfeels, not necessarily about
who's doing more, but just thefeeling Like both partners may
end up feeling overwhelmed aboutthe task that they're taking on
to in their PMDD relationships.
And what we do in our privatesessions is I literally have a
worksheet and we literally writeout the chores and the
household duties that are goingto be done so that it feels
(12:22):
equal.
It doesn't matter about what itlooks like on paper.
It needs to feel equal to bothpartners so that they're not in
a space where they're feelinglike I'm doing all of this and
you're not doing anything,because that leads to
invalidation, it leads to a lackof intimacy, because you feel
stressed and overwhelmed.
Then that leads to feeling likeyou have a lack of support.
So when you have thisconversational narcissist,
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there's almost this competitionabout who's doing more, like you
start mentioning what you'redoing and the other person's
mentioning what they're doing,and it's no longer about
supporting each other.
It's almost about proving thatI'm doing more than you, which
is validating why I'm exhausted.
So the next way that this canshow up is kind of redirecting
the topic.
So when you feel, when you'resaying a statement like so, say,
(13:07):
if you're the partner that haspremenstrual dysphoric disorder
and you're trying to bevulnerable with your partner
again, this is a lot of timeswhere this conversational
narcissism comes in is whenyou're open and vulnerable about
how the state that you're in.
So you, you know, you may saysomething like I feel like I'm
not myself right now.
Everything is really irritatingme.
Maybe you're in your lutealphase and you're like everything
(13:28):
is really irritating me rightnow.
Like I don't know what's goingon.
I just don't feel like myself.
And you're just expressing thisto your partner.
Well, the partner who has theconversational narcissism says
yeah, you have been actingdifferent, you know.
It reminds me of how my ex usedto be during her PMS.
It's really hard to deal with.
I had this happen to me a lotof times and this is me talking.
(13:53):
I know I'm doing the scriptingbecause I feel like it really
helps you all and now it helpsmy private clients.
But I had this.
I would start to be open andvulnerable with a partner and
they would almost use it againstme.
They would almost shame me forthe PMDD symptoms that I was
having.
Like I would be open and takeaccountability, like, yeah, I'm
feeling different, I'm feelingthis way.
(14:14):
And they're like, yeah, my exused to do this, you know, and
it was so hard for me and it'sso hard being with someone who
has mood swings and their moodsare up and down and I don't have
mood swings.
Like, my moods are always thesame.
So they make it about theirdiscomfort about being with you,
instead of addressing theemotional cry for support If I'm
being open and vulnerable andhonest with you about the state
(14:36):
that I'm in.
I'm doing that so that you canhelp me, not blame me and shame
me for the state that I'm in.
That I didn't ask for A lot oftimes.
When you're in your lutealphase and you're having these
symptoms, you're not asking tofeel like that, you're just
noticing that it's.
You're feeling off and what youwould want is for your partner
to empathize with the fact thatyou're feeling differently in a
way that you didn't ask for.
(14:56):
It's not based off of anythingthat you haven't done, like a
lack of self-care.
I know for me, when I wasexhausted, I could sleep for
hours and hours and hours andhours and still feel exhausted.
So it wasn't that I wasn'ttaking care of myself by
prioritizing my sleep.
It was just like when I'm in myluteal phase, I can sleep for a
very long time, like even now10 to 11 to 12 hours and still
(15:20):
feel exhausted.
But when you're redirecting theconversation to yeah, I'm tired
too, then it's like you have noempathy for the state that I'm
in.
Like I'm just explaining to youthat I'm so tired, I'm so
exhausted, that you almost get alittle bit like well, it
doesn't matter how much restthat I'm going to get, I'm still
going to be tired.
That was the state that I wasin.
I was literally feeling like Icould sleep for 12 hours and I'm
(15:43):
still going to be tired andexhausted.
And I wanted kind of someempathy with that, like, yeah,
that might be a little bit hardfor you, but what I was getting
was, yeah, I'm exhausted too, sokind of make it seem like
you're on the same.
You're even Like no one shouldfeel more bad about you than
them, right?
So the next thing that aconversational narcissist will
(16:06):
do, or someone who hasconversational narcissism, is
they interrupt you in order torelate, like you're telling a
story.
You may be saying somethinglike I'm scared, I'm pushing you
away again, and you're tryingto explain how you feel.
Like you're pushing yourpartner away because you're in
your luteal phase and maybeyou're not giving them enough
(16:26):
attention and you're feelingguilty about it.
And then they're like, yeah, Iget it.
I had the same fear with mylast relationship.
That's why I broke up with her.
And it's like wait a minute.
They're basically interruptingyour vulnerable moment to share
their past experience, whichisn't helpful in the moment,
like a lot of times when you'retrying to number one you need to
keep it present on your currentrelationship.
(16:48):
A lot of times when thingshappen have happened in the past
and you're seeing a pattern,you as a partner, you may freak
out and be like, oh my gosh,this is what's going to happen
again.
And then all of a sudden youstart talking about past
experiences, past relationshipsyou know, or even past
experiences that you've had inyour current relationship.
You may be saying, yeah, Iremember you used to do this all
(17:08):
the time.
Or here you go again.
I bet you're about to startshutting down on me.
I used to get that comment allthe time where I would just get
a little bit quiet and I'm like,yeah, I'm feeling a little bit
off and it's like, yeah, youknow how you get in your luteal
phase.
You know how you get in PMDD.
You know how you get in yourluteal phase.
You know how you get in PMDD.
I bet you're in PMDD right nowand sometimes I was in PMDD and
sometimes I wasn't.
But either way, getting blamedand shamed for the state that I
(17:28):
was in, was that conversationalnarcissism?
It was almost like interruptingwhat I'm saying and kind of
finishing my sentence Like yeah,I already know how you feel.
Like I don't even pretty muchlike saying I don't even need
you to finish explaining, Ialready know what's going on.
You're assuming that you knowwhat's going on.
So you're shutting down thatcommunication from your partner,
opening up to you and beingvulnerable because you feel like
(17:49):
you're one upping them Like oh,I already know what's going on
with you.
Like maybe you've done a lot ofresearch in PMDD and your
partner's trying to.
Who has PMDD is trying to say,hey, I'm feeling like this.
It's like I already know howyou're feeling because,
according to, according to myresearch, you know during this
phase of your cycle, you shouldfeel like this or you should
feel like that.
And it's like wait a minute,like give your partner the
(18:11):
opportunity and the chance toexpress themselves without
interrupting them and assumingthat you know how they're
feeling.
So this goes into the next one,which is the one upping.
This is very, very common.
You may say I cried three timestoday for no reason and then
your partner says you thinkthat's bad.
The partner with theconversational narcissism you
(18:34):
think that's bad?
I had to deal with two angryclients today, back to back, and
I didn't even get a break.
So they're basically dismissingthe feelings by competing with
their own stress and, to bequite honest, we all have
stressful situations in ourlives.
But if you're in competitionagain by saying you're digging
up things that you have going onin your life to compare to one
up and basically say what I havegoing on is more stressful than
(18:56):
what you have going on, so thenthe next thing is the
dismissive comparison.
Like the partner who has PMDDmay say I feel like I'm going
crazy every single month whenI'm in my luteal phase.
And then the partner may sayeveryone feels off sometimes,
like you're not the only one whohas emotions.
So basically they downplay andgeneralize what you're
experiencing instead ofvalidating the specific
(19:18):
experiences of PMDD.
They're saying just because youhave PMDD doesn't mean that
you're the only one that hasemotions.
And it's like well, I wasn'ttelling you that to say that I'm
the only one that has emotions,I wasn't mentioning that I'm
the only one suffering, I'm justtalking about the state that
I'm in.
So another thing isself-referencing advice.
(19:40):
So I don't know like thepartner who has PMDD might say I
don't know how to stop snappingadvice.
So I don't know, like thepartner who has, you know, pmdd
might say I don't know how tostop snapping at you.
I don't know how to stop goingoff on you.
Am I luteal phase?
Just every single time I'm inmy luteal phase, I'm in PMDD, I
end up going off on you.
And then your partner says, well, I used to be super reactive
too, you know, I just stoppedtaking things so seriously.
Maybe you should try that.
So they shift the focus totheir own success story, while
(20:04):
ignoring the state that you'rein, like you're being again.
You're being open andvulnerable and saying, hey, I'm
having a really hard time goingoff on you, and maybe they're a
partner who's been working onthemselves and now they're like,
hey, well, maybe you shouldjust try, you know, taking a
deep breath.
Or maybe you should try takinga walk, like I used to be like
that, but I'm not like thatanymore.
So maybe you should try that.
(20:28):
That's conversational narcissism, because you're taking the
focus off of what your partneris saying that they're
struggling with and putting onit on you and your own success
story and about all of the workthat you've been doing, by
overshadowing the state thatthey're in.
It's not their fault thatthey're having issues with still
going off.
That means they still have workto do.
But you don't need to blamethem and shame them by saying,
(20:48):
like you're in this place, likeyou're down here and I'm up here
, that's what is insinuatingthat you are the one that still
needs to do work.
I have already been in thatplace, been there, done that,
got the t-shirt.
So the next one is blamedisguises, empathy.
Like I feel like I'm ruiningour relationship every month,
right.
And then so maybe you're sayingthis, you're being open and
(21:09):
vulnerable and say I really feellike I'm I'm ruining our
relationship every month.
And then the partner is sayingyou know, I mean, it does get
really hard to be around yousometimes.
I try, but it's not easy for meeither.
Like I have a really hard timebeing around you.
So I could see why you feellike you're ruining our
relationship.
So they're subtly centeringtheir own suffering instead of
(21:30):
creating a safe space for you tohave that kind of confession
and that openness and thatvulnerability.
Because what's happening herein every scenario is one partner
is being open and vulnerableabout the state that they're in,
and then the conversationalnarcissist will blame them and
shame them for the state thatthey're in instead of having
empathy.
And then the next thing ischanging the subject.
(21:51):
This is really common.
When you're kind of walking oneggshells and you're dealing
with someone that doesn't reallywant to address emotions, right
, they're like I feel so aloneright now.
And then the partner will saydid you see that new show on
Netflix?
It might cheer you up, like,maybe you should just go watch a
show, maybe you should watch amovie.
So they're basicallyemotionally disconnecting
(22:12):
instead of staying present inthe discomfort with their
partner.
Or maybe their partner issaying you know, I'm feeling
really lonely right now and it'slike okay, babe, I'm about to
go to the store, do you needanything?
It's like wait a minute, I'mbeing open and vulnerable.
This is a cry for emotions.
I'm trying to get my needs met.
I'm trying to connect with youand you're immediately changing
the subject.
You're immediately emotionallydisconnecting because you feel
like you don't want to deal withthose emotions right now.
(22:34):
And then the next thing we haveis the performative listening,
where you may say I need to talkabout what happened yesterday.
It's really upsetting me.
And then your partner says,okay, sure, but can we make it
quick?
I got a lot going on too, sothat they're offering a shallow
space that centers their timeand their convenience, not true
presence.
So now, if you bring somethingup, you know that they're
(22:56):
rushing to get through it in theconversation.
Like maybe I've had this happenwith a client where they're
like, hey, you know, we need tohave a session with Dr Rose
about what happened, you know,last week, like it's still
really bothering me and I reallywant to talk about it in a safe
space, and they're like wedon't need to, we don't need to
go on a session, let's just talkabout it right now.
So they're thinking that theycould just, instead of having a
session where we go in depthwith what happened in the
(23:18):
relationship, they're thinkingthat they could just have a
quick talk about it and thenthat's it.
A lot of times when you go onprivate sessions with me, you
know they're typically 90minutes and it takes 90 minutes
or more to really get to thedepth of just one scenario, to
get to a place where I'munderstanding where you both are
coming from and then giving youthe tools about what you can do
(23:38):
moving forward.
But it's not a quickconversation.
It's not like, hey, this iswhat happened, give us the
advice.
It's not a quick fix, but a lotof times when you have this
conversational narcissist,they're only willing to go
surface level on the issue.
They're not willing to get intodepths about what happened.
Because you have to be open andyou have to be.
You're basically admitting like, yeah, I probably handled the
(24:06):
situation wrong.
So overall, when it comes toconversational narcissism,
you're invalidating yourpartner's experience.
When the partner is consistentlyredirecting the conversation
back to themselves, your partneris feeling invisible.
They're feeling not heard.
They're feeling not seen.
(24:26):
They're feeling not seen.
They're feeling not supportedand then they're going to begin
to shut down communication.
They're going to say, well,it's always going to end up
being about them.
So what's the point?
What is the point?
So it leads to a lack ofemotional safety.
Then they don't feel safeopening up their emotions to you
because they feel like theiremotions are going to get
hijacked.
They're going to get hijacked,they're going to get redirected.
All of these examples that I'vegiven to you.
(24:46):
Your partner is going to beginto assume that this is what's
going to happen in therelationship and it doesn't feel
good.
I've been there.
It does not feel good to be onthe other end of trying to be
open and connecting with yourpartner and feeling like you're
getting shut down, feeling likeyour emotions don't matter, and
(25:07):
so it's going to fuel themonthly PMDD breakups and the
conflict.
So eventually one person iseither going to explode in rage
because they're going to feellike they're not getting seen
and heard, or they're just goingto shut down communication.
So they try to talk, they'reinterrupted, they're talked over
, they're dismissed.
They feel rejected, they feelnot seen, not heard, their
partner is calling themirrational, their partner is
calling them dramatic, all ofthese things.
(25:27):
So you start to not even trustcommunication with your partner
because it doesn't feel good.
So it leads to emotionalexhaustion for both of you.
Both of you are going to beexhausted with having
communications where you're notfeeling seen, you're not feeling
heard and it's going to breakdown the intimacy.
Part of intimacy iscommunication.
It basically means that you'reable to go to your partner and
say, hey, this is what I havegoing on and you're feeling like
(25:49):
your partner really hears you.
You're feeling like yourpartner really sees you.
But when you're having thispattern of conversational
narcissism, it's like you'regoing into the conversation
trying to connect, but you'renever really connected.
So then you're in arelationship but you feel lonely
.
You feel lonely in therelationship.
Even though you're technicallyin the relationship, even though
(26:09):
you go to talk to your partner,you still feel like you're
alone.
You still feel like you have todeal with everything that goes
on emotionally in therelationship by yourself,
because your partner doesn't getit.
And it's kind of like thismasking where the partner who
does the conversationalnarcissism is like oh yeah, I
totally know how you feel.
I went through the same thingand a lot of times.
Your partner hasn't gonethrough the same thing and you
(26:32):
can't assume and you shouldn'tassume, even if you've gone
through something similar, youcan still need to get to a place
where you're listening to whatis going on with your partner,
even if you feel like you knowthat your partner is suffering
and maybe they're suffering withthe same pattern every month.
So you're like, oh, here theygo again.
(26:52):
I'm going to give you sometools about what you can do when
you find yourself in thispattern, and what I want you to
do is let go of the pride, letgo of the ego.
If you find yourself in thissituation where some of the
scenarios that I've mentionedyou're commonly doing them.
Don't feel bad about yourself.
Just take accountability andsay this is something that I
need to work on.
(27:13):
So the first tool is if younotice that you have this
pattern of doing theconversational narcissism is the
80-20 rule.
What that means is when you'regoing into communication with
your partner and you know thatthey're trying to open up with
you, you know they're trying tobe vulnerable.
You know they want to feel seen, they want to feel heard, aim
(27:35):
to listen 80% of the time andspeak 20%.
So an example of this is whenyour partner is coming to you
and they're saying somethinglike oh, you know I'm feeling
horrible this month, or you knowI'm feeling really stressed out
, instead of you immediatelyinterjecting and saying, yeah,
that's just like when I, youknow, was going to work today.
(27:57):
Like, don't say that.
Instead of, instead of goingoff into a story about what's
going on with you, say tell memore about what you're feeling
right now.
The reason why conversationalnarcissism is so common for
narcissists is because it's allabout them and there is a lack
of empathy in theircommunication.
(28:17):
This is the missing link.
The tools that I'm going togive you is leaning into being
an empathetic PMDD partner.
This is for the partner thathas premenstrual dysphoric
disorder or the partner thatdoesn't.
When you have conversationalnarcissism, your responses are
not immediately empathetic.
You're always thinking aboutyourself.
(28:38):
You're always thinking, like Isaid, about how to one-up them
or how to compare or how tocompete or do all of these
things, because it's all aboutyou and how the situation is
making you look.
So when you do this, when yousay, tell me more about how
you're feeling right now, itreduces the urge to hijack the
conversation.
You may have the urge becauseyou may have been in a habit of
(29:00):
doing this.
When you find yourself talkingabout yourself, like that's just
like when I you can kind ofpull it back and say you know
what?
Tell me more about what you'refeeling right now.
Keep the focus on one of yourpartner's experience.
Remember they came to talk toyou.
And even if you came to talk tothem and they start talking
about things that are going onwith them, keep the focus on
(29:21):
them for a minute.
Just let them get out howthey're experiencing and then
you can move back on to what'sgoing on with you.
So the next tool is to repeatback what you heard before
adding your own thoughts, right.
So basically, what you'resaying is so you're feeling
overwhelmed and scared, I'llpull away again, is that right?
So you're asking the questionto make sure that what you're
(29:42):
perceiving that they're sayingin your mind is actually what
they're saying.
This helps show the otherperson, your partner, that
you're hearing them, you'reunderstanding them and you're
keeping the focus on theiremotions.
The next thing that's reallygoing to help you when your
partner starts to say somethingyou know where they're being
open and vulnerable, about howthey're feeling, really take a
(30:04):
deep breath and count towhatever you need to count to
and really, when you notice thatyou have this pattern, ask
yourself am I responding tosupport or am I shifting the
focus on myself?
I had to do this because mypartner was coming to me with a
lot of complaining and I had ahard time with hearing
(30:26):
complaining because it soundedreally negative to me and I
really had to understand thatsometimes people have the
personality that complaining ispart of how they process things.
I don't process things likethat.
I process things internally,and so I had to really
understand what my partner wasneeding.
My partner was really needingme to keep the focus on them.
(30:46):
They weren't needing me to fixtheir situation.
They weren't needing me to givethem advice.
They were needing me to justlisten to what it is that they
had going on, and that wasreally, really hard for me.
So I used this tool.
Instead of interrupting themand instead of getting the
impulse to try to fix it forthem or offer them advice, I
(31:07):
just listened and the next thingI did I used like a timer.
This really worked.
Meaning, if you know that yourpartner has something to talk to
you about and say, if they wantto talk about an issue that you
had last week, like aconversation that you had, use a
little timer.
I've done this in clientsessions where each partner gets
(31:27):
like five minutes to tell theirside of the story.
You're not going to interruptand you just say let's take five
minutes, and what this does isit creates a balance in the
communication and it ensuresboth of you are heard without
the irritability and the stressof the other person interrupting
them with their emotionalresponse.
A lot of times, if you're andI've seen this on sessions where
(31:48):
you're trying to say whathappened in the situation and
the partner immediately puts thefocus no, this is what really
happened.
Or you know, dr Rose, this iswhat really happened.
No, I put the other person onmute, I give a timer and I allow
that person to get the fullstory of what happened,
according to their view, andthen I'll go to the other
partner and I say what is yourversion of that story?
(32:10):
That's the next thing you do.
If you notice that you're inthat realm of that
conversational narcissism, isyou ask clarifying questions,
what part of that felt mostintense for you?
You're keeping the conversationcentered on your partner's
experience instead of putting itback on your experience.
You're asking them what part ofthat triggered you the most.
(32:30):
When I did that, your partneris going to be really
appreciative because they'regoing to think that you care
enough to ask how your actionstriggered them, without trying
to defend yourself and gettingdefensive, right?
Okay so, and then the nextthing you can do is use these
mantras so I'm always big onmantras right?
You say I want to understandand I don't want to interrupt
you.
So, basically, are you sayingthis?
(32:51):
Okay, so you're lettingyourself know that this is what
you're doing.
This moment is about hearing you, not fixing you.
You're telling your partnerwhat your intentions are.
I'm in this conversation tohear you.
I'm not trying to fix you.
I'm in this conversation tohear you.
I'm not trying to fix you.
I'm just trying to understandwhere you're coming from.
It resets your intentions, notonly to your partner but also to
yourself.
When you feel tempted to makeit about you, you can literally
(33:15):
say out loud okay, I'm here tohear what's going on with you.
I'm in this conversation tohear what's going on with you.
And then the next thing you cando is practice you-focused
responses Shift.
The next thing you can do ispractice you-focused responses.
Shift the I to you.
When your partner is being openand vulnerable, say you've been
caring so much today I can seehow heavy that is.
That's very empathetic.
That's an empathetic responseversus I know how that is, I had
(33:38):
a bad day too.
When you find yourselfimpulsively doing this, getting
into that conversationalnarcissism, remember your
responses are supposed to putthe focus on your partner, not
yourself.
And I know you may be thinkinglike oh my goodness, then when
am I going to get my feelingsheard?
When am I going to get myemotions heard?
When you focus more aboutpouring into your partner, your
(34:00):
needs are automatically going tobe met, because when your
partner feels seen and heard,then they go to those prompts of
trying to lean into you.
Once your partner feels seenand heard, then they'll probably
come to you and say you know,thanks for listening to me.
How are you feeling about that?
Or you know, however, they talklike you know, not being very
generic, but just say yeah, Iunderstand that this is probably
hard for you too.
(34:21):
And then the next thing is thelast one is designate times to
have these conversations right.
Create specific days to haveconversations about things that
are going on in your PMDDrelationship.
This is the prime time to havethose sessions with me.
When my clients are havingsessions with me, they're
(34:42):
talking about the issues thatare going on in their
relationship that are really,really hard, and maybe they
don't want to talk about themduring certain phases of their
cycles, during their lutealphase, during PMDD, because they
want to have a safe space.
Well, when you do that, you'rebasically making the focus about
your partner.
When we have the sessions, Ipretty much do all the work for
you.
I create the timers, I makesure that both partners feel
(35:04):
heard, I make sure that you getthe tools, I make sure that it
doesn't become all about onepartner and not the other.
And it really helps you to getout of the cycle because when
you have the private sessionswith me, you get used to having
conversations that are notcentered around conversational
narcissism it's not centeredaround these bad habits and then
(35:24):
when you create the pattern onthe private sessions, when you
start talking to your partner,you start using the tools again
and again, and again, and itmakes it easier to get rid of
the conversational narcissismthat's so damaging to your PMDD
relationship and just talk toyour partner in a way that's
more empathetic.
Your partner feels more seen,they feel more heard, they feel
more validated, they feel moresupported and then, in turn,
(35:47):
both partners get their needsmet in the PMDD relationship.
Again, if this is somethingthat you need help with, we're
still in the month of July.
I have about four privatesessions that are available
right now on the books.
You don't have to use a code.
I know a lot of you were DMingme and talking about.
You want to use the $100 offfor the sessions.
I have already marked it down.
(36:07):
All you have to do is go toinlovewithpmddcom, get those
private sessions and I will seeyou in there Until next time.
We got this.
I love you.
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