October 25, 2023 • 43 mins
Our latest podcast episode introduces Samantha Ong, the innovative CEO of Joeydolls, celebrating the diversity and beauty of the Asian diaspora. www.inthedollworld.com
Samantha's story begins with a simple desire - to create dolls that reflected her daughter's Asian heritage. Frustrated with the lack of diversity in the toy market, she embarked on a journey to make dolls that would allow children of Asian descent to see themselves in the toys they play with.
Joeydolls are more than just dolls, they are lifelines connecting children with their heritage. They are sources of comfort for mixed families, adopted children, and those getting accustomed to new environments.
Samantha's work has instilled a sense of belonging in these children, subverting societal messages that often devalue people of darker skin tones. Her story is a testament to what can be achieved with determination, compassion, and an unwavering belief in the power of representation.
Join us for this insightful conversation with Samantha Ong, and prepare to be inspired. To learn more about Joeydolls visit Joeydolls
Hey!!! Get a shout out on an upcoming episode as a thank you for your monthly support of In The Doll World. Click here to support.
Thank you for listening to In The Doll World, to see all the artists we have featured on the show or to leave a review visit www.inthedollworld.com or to see our video interviews please visit our Youtube channel at www.youtube.com/inthedollworld.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello everybody and welcome to In the Dawn World, a
show spotlighting the passionand the people of the Dawn
community With your host,georgia Taylor, former vice
president and co-founder of BigBeautiful Dolls.
Join her as she talks tofascinating Dawn artists,
customizers, avid collectors,redesigners, authors and all the
people in between, as theyshare their journeys, give us
(00:27):
glimpses into their processesand will propel their passion
and drive to help keep the Dawnworld moving and shaking.
Welcome to the show, helloeverybody, and welcome to In the
Dawn World.
I'm your host, georgia Taylor,and, as always, I'm so excited
that you joined me today and soexcited to bring some amazing
(00:48):
new Dawn creators to ourlisteners, and today is no
exception.
Today we have Samantha Ong.
She is the founder and CEO ofJoey Dolls and I want to welcome
her to In the Dawn World.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Hi, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Thank you so much, Samantha, for joining me.
I'm so excited to be able tohave you share what it is that
you do talk about your dolls,because they are just precious.
I absolutely love them.
They're just the cutest thing,and so would you just share with
our audience where you're fromand how you decided to come up
with this inspirational line ofdolls?
(01:25):
I think it's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yes thank you.
So we're based in Toronto andit really all began.
I'm actually a weddingphotographer, so it was like
during the pandemic where I wasreally stripped of the ability
to work.
I had so many weddings canceledso I was stuck at home.
I thought it was actuallyturned out to be a blessing,
(01:47):
because when you have a smallbusiness, you don't really think
to take maternity leave foryourself, and so I just went
straight in.
After having her giving birthto her, I went straight into
working weddings, which wasreally insane.
So this pandemic forced me toreally reprioritize my life and
then spend some time with her,and so as I was doing that, I
(02:11):
was watching news of thepandemic and seeing anti-Asian
hate really increasingsignificantly.
I remember feeling sort ofashamed of my own, how I look,
potentially being scared aboutwhat people might think of me.
I was seeing a lot of hatespeech, especially surrounding
(02:36):
spreading the virus, where itcame from, and all of that, and
also a lot of what was talkedabout was referring to Asians as
one group, and when you have achild, I really feel that you
see the world through their eyes, but also you reflect upon your
(02:57):
own childhood.
And so when I was having allthese thoughts, I thought, oh
gosh, I don't want her to feelashamed of being Asian or how
she looks.
Just like I did when I wasyounger, I remember telling my
dad speak English, or I wasreally envious of my classmates
(03:18):
who were blonde and blue-eyed.
Those were the dolls that Iplayed with, and I really do
think that had such an impact onhow I viewed myself in society
that I was always the other.
I was never supposed to be themain character or someone that
would be something in society.
(03:38):
I remember thinking vividly tomyself I could never be a
princess, I could never be inHollywood, I could never be
someone of significance and sotrack along just being the other
person.
I understand, yeah, cool.
(04:01):
So also, of course, we werestuck in the pandemic, we were
just all alone.
So it was really myself and mydaughter and my husband had to
work the front lines and we werefeeling very lonely.
So that's when I really thought, ok, let's look for some dolls
that she could feel comforted by, and I really wanted to look
for dolls that she could seeherself in.
And so, as I was looking, Icouldn't believe how very little
(04:26):
there was out there.
Even to this day.
We talk about diversity, wetalk about representation, and
there's just really not much outthere.
Of course there are a few, butwhat I tend to see that was out
there.
There would be a whole range ofdolls and then there'll be that
one token Asian doll and ittended to have stereotypical
(04:46):
features and then fair skin,black hair, and then somehow it
was called Asian and then evensometimes they weren't even very
Asian looking, they stilllooked very white.
So I was really disappointed inwhat I could see.
I personally couldn't connectwith them.
I couldn't feel proud to givethat to my daughter, and so it
(05:10):
was around the time when she wasone years old it was her
birthday we normally wanted toput her in her traditional Asian
outfit.
So actually I'm Chinese,malaysian and my husband's
Korean.
So, although we're Asian, butwe became most specific yeah,
chinese, korean, malaysian.
So we celebrate our culturethrough our outfits and through
(05:34):
our food and all of this.
But then I was like we don't dothat through dolls.
And so as I was looking andlooking and I felt so frustrated
and my husband was just like,well, if you can't find anyone,
you make one.
I was like, oh, easy for you tosay Easy to say to them, right.
(05:55):
Exactly because I was like Idon't have any experience.
I don't have any toy experience, I don't have any fashion
experience or sewing experienceat all, and so there was so much
to learn.
But I just really came down toOK, if I want to do this for my
(06:17):
own daughter which was myprimary goal at the time how
many other children can I helpthrough these dolls?
And so I think that reallypropelled me in redefining my
mission with creating the dolls,taking this ginormous hill of
learning and workload.
(06:38):
People think it's much so funand easy to make these dolls,
but it was a lot, a lot, a lotof work, and especially because
I tried to spend my time with mydaughter during the day, and I
just looked on these at night sothere were so many late nights
and stuff.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
She was very young, then right when you started,
right.
So let me share some of thechallenges that you face in
creating not just even a doll,but creating a line of
Asian-inspired dolls.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
It was not knowing how to sew, and so, also, I
wanted to do it locally at first, and so I was trying to find a
doll designer, initially locallyand then me not being able to
work for basically two yearsduring the pandemic.
I had a very small investment,like I didn't want to put so
much of my own funds into it, soI was trying to do things very.
(07:29):
What you're conscious right,exactly Because I didn't have
all this money to spend, and soI struggled with that.
Initially, like the cost justwent up really high.
Also, like finding the rightmaterials.
I thought it would be a loteasier to find various skin
tones that I could pick from,like various shades of beige and
(07:52):
, you know, browns and all theselike.
But I couldn't believe how hardit was.
And that's when I was like,okay, I had to take this
overseas because there had morevariety and then, if I needed to
, I could custom Right.
Of course, that still requiredlike a large investment to do
custom fabrics and all of that,but it was just so much more I
(08:14):
had access to.
More obviously Right, anddefinitely when it came to the
cultural aspect, like, Iremember being so worried about
getting things right because Idon't want to offend anyone, I
don't want to pretend that Iknow what it is like to be
Vietnamese or like what'simportant for them.
(08:34):
So there was a lot of designchanges.
So, even though it took me it'sbeen three years to the like
until like when it's November,three years has like accepted
this idea.
So I'm feeling a little sad atthat Because of all the
reiterations I was able to likeredefine what we were about and
(08:56):
what was important for the dollto have, whereas if I pushed out
the doll that I had three yearsago, like my initial idea, I
don't think I would have beenvery proud of it and I don't
think people would haveconnected with it.
Yeah, so I'm actually reallyglad that we went through those
changes.
Like wait, I spent a lot of timeasking people in the community
(09:16):
to give feedback.
I'm like reaching out and thecommunity has been really,
really, really beautiful.
Yeah, and that's what I think Iwant it to be really about that
these dolls aren't just me.
Making these dolls Like it'sbeen like a real collaborative
effort and it's for thecommunity that everyone feels a
(09:37):
part of this journey as well,because they have had such an
input, especially the names aswell.
Like I made sure that that wasgiven a lot of importance.
Initially I was like I'm justgoing to pick the names, like
how hard can it be?
And then I was like wait, likethe names are going to have so
much meaning and significancefor every culture, and so that's
(10:02):
when I like really put it outthere for people to give
feedback on and help choose thename.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Yeah, I think I think , wow, do you know, just listen
into the way that you you didthe process.
I just really want to justcongratulate you on that because
I think a lot of people, likeyou said, would not necessarily
think about you know specificAsian cultures and ask for their
input.
They would just take it uponthemselves to think, oh, I know
this.
So I think I know this and thisis what I'm going to represent.
(10:32):
So kudos to you for doing that.
I think that that made it somuch more culturally, I think,
inspired by doing that.
Now, how many, how manycultures do your dolls represent
and what are their names?
I'm so glad that you said that,that you went to the culture
and said, hey, what about thisname?
Does this work?
Because it may.
It's a different meaning and itrepresents something to them.
(10:55):
You know that's reallyimportant, so that's really
beautiful that you did that.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Thank you.
Yeah, so we have six culturesand ethnicities, and so we have
Chinese, vietnamese, filipino,korean, indian and Indian.
Oh sorry, I want to try it inJapanese and so, yeah, so I have
(11:22):
six and their names.
So we have the Chinese doll isMay, and then we have Filipino,
her name is Malaya, and then wehave the Vietnamese doll, which
is Hua, and then the Indian dollis Kamala, and then the Korean
doll is Danbi, and then Japanesedoll is Aiko.
(11:43):
Yeah, they all have meaningsand so I want it was such a
actually just in the name itself.
It was such a process Because,for example, the Indian doll I
didn't realize, like how manylanguages there are in India the
interpretation of the namescould mean different things.
But also a lot of the names werevery religious focused.
(12:07):
So, because I want these dollsto be relatable for children, I
didn't want them to be justrelatable to one like one
religious background.
So that's where it got reallytricky is that I had to make
sure that a name could berelatable to different, you know
(12:27):
, religious backgrounds andlanguages, and then it still
meant something of significance.
So it was a real process, likeresearching each name and then
even like betting them withvarious people and, of course,
various people had differentopinions, and all of that that
was interesting work that youhad to do.
I had no idea that I would cometo this in making this doll, but
(12:48):
it means so much to people thatof course I had to give that so
much importance.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yeah, that's so true.
So, like, in what ways reallydo you believe or see the
representation of toys and yourdolls really contributing to
helping you know racism andforce during a self, you know, I
guess, a sense of self worthand love with children, with you
know among themselves?
(13:15):
Like, do you believe that thosethings can happen because of
dolls and toys?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah.
So upon my research, when I waslooking up dolls and early
development, I actually had noidea that babies as young as 10
months can recognize racialdifferences and that they tend
to excite with or bias like withpeople that look like
themselves or different.
(13:41):
So, like this is so importantfor, like our world, world is so
diverse, to not just see onetype of Look or like race, to be
really familiar with many.
That's why I wanted so badly todo at least six dolls and I
(14:01):
really hope that I can do morein the future Because at the
very beginning people were like,just start with one doll.
Like you don't have anexperience, just start with one
doll.
And I was like really stubbornabout it.
I really wanted to do at leastsix because, like just seeing
the six on its own, you can seealready, like this, so much
diversity within the Asiandiaspora that it's so important
(14:24):
to be able to Recognize that andhave that education for people.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Because I got really saw this, like you know, during
the pandemic or even you know,other times where you know we've
traveled and People and justlike my husband's Korean and
people tend to think he'sChinese, yeah, there's a lot of
assumptions and just like notenough education, I guess, and
so I'm really hoping that ifpeople, if children or even, you
(14:54):
know, adults, I like we get,you know, a lot of people get
caught up and, like you said,their own ideas of what that,
what that looks like, you know,and if you see a different
culture, you just you know, youwant to tend to put it in one
box, like that's, that's whothey are, right, or if I, you
know, you see a face that looksdifferent, oh well, that's what
(15:16):
they are and that's not.
That's not the truth.
I think it forces you, justlike it did you, in the sense it
forced you to learn that therewas so many languages and in the
end, it was so many differentThings that came with names.
You know, representation ofnames were so different as well.
So it just isn't just becauseyou look one way doesn't
necessarily mean that that'sthat.
(15:36):
There's so many facets of that.
It's not just how you know.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
So, yeah, right, of course, yes, exactly.
That's why I really hope thatthese girls can just be like a
starting point for a lot moreConversation and education, and
I do hope that, of course, wewant the dolls to be the primary
of our like a brand, but wereally do want to explore, like,
how we can use the dolls foreducation, like, maybe, like
(16:04):
even with each doll, you canscan the QR code on the hang tag
and learn more about, like whywe told Because the name, what's
the significance about it, whatis on their outfit, what other
significance behind that, and Ihope that we can expand on that
Like we've put out like factsabout each country and I hope
(16:27):
that you know we can continuedown this road to provide more
Resources for parents to be likefor tools Promoting diversity.
So I really hope that parents,or like as adults, like that not
only choose Adult that maybe istheir own heritage, that also
(16:48):
they could choose to look at theother dolls for introducing
that for their children.
I do hope that dolls could bePlayed with with children
outside the Asian community,because you know we really have
to.
I really want it to benormalized, that that normal to
(17:10):
play with an Asian doll or ablack doll, even if you're not
of that background right, right,that's so, that's so true.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
I mean, I think that was one of the things that we
thought about when we were doingthe big, beautiful dolls is
because, you know Me and my myfriend, you know, plus size
Women and we just felt, lookingat the fashion doll world, there
was nothing that representedthat right.
But yet, you know, 40% of womenwere certain size, you know,
and so we wanted it to that tobe the norm, like even, you know
(17:41):
, you have all array of thesebeautiful fashion dolls and they
should range from smaller tobigger, because this is who we
are, you know, in this, in thisworld.
This is who we are in thisworld.
It it took many, many years,you know, that was 1999 and 2000
, and that was like unheard ofagain.
And we felt the same way whenwe walked into the doll I'll,
(18:02):
there was nothing that it wasn'teven $1 at a.
This is who we are, you know.
So I definitely understand whereyou're coming from in the sense
of wanting it to be, wanting,you know, not just your culture
but other cultures to berepresented, because we are a
melting pot.
I mean, this is just what theworld is, and so there should be
dolls that represent all, allaspects, all, all abilities, all
(18:26):
disabilities, right, all colors, all shapes and sizes, because
that is who we are as people.
So I Again, I'm so excitedabout your dolls.
Let me ask you this questionnow Do you think that dolls
would have been kind of inCreated without you having an
experience as being a mother?
Speaker 2 (18:44):
No, I don't think I would have thought to like, look
at dolls, and so I think that'sa huge blessing that I have had
this experience, like, like Isaid, when I am with her, I look
at the world through her eyes.
So it's like how do I want toredefine her like way of life?
That was different, right, andchanging that narrative, and how
(19:09):
, in creating the dolls, how Ican change the narrative for
other children.
And I would have never thoughtabout that If it weren't having
her, because I wouldn't like mychildhood was just like in the
past now.
And of course, I would havethought like, okay, there needs
to be more representation on TVand right, but it would have
been something you thought youwould have just go ahead and did
(19:30):
right no.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah, I get, I understand that.
How do you, how do yourepresent all the cultures like
through, I guess there and theheritage through their designs?
How do you incorporate thatinto their designs?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yeah.
So I really at first, like Iwanted to look up what the
traditional dress for each hewas, and so I started from there
and then Then I startedreaching out to people like what
do you think?
I started drafting what itcould be and then and then and
then I started like adding a lotof details.
(20:06):
So this is where I think mychallenge really was, because of
course, you can make certainthings on like a full-size
outfit, but also making it likecost-effective and also really
miniature, because everything ishandmade that it was so
difficult to Do, like, forexample, that people don't
(20:28):
realize like the Chinese knotsare all handmade.
So of course, when you do themon a larger scale, you know you
can knock them, but then, likethese pieces are so tiny like
it's just impossible.
But I was so stubborn like Ihad no have to do these like
because I want them to be likereally authentic.
And then we went through so manymethods like, okay, well, do we
(20:50):
print them, do we embroiderthem?
And we there was a long processof figuring out like what would
look best and the functionality, making it easy for children to
be able to play with and thenunderstand like the aspects of a
traditional dress and, ofcourse, like, had to simplify
some of them, but also I wantedto make them as authentic as
(21:15):
possible.
So, like, even like the Koreanheadpiece, like initially we had
it, it's just like a littleflower and I was like, oh no,
can we make it like a trueheadpiece?
But also without a lot of like,we have to simplify it because
we didn't want all these pearls,because, right, it would not
make for children, right.
(21:35):
And then, like the, theJapanese headpiece usually is
quite expensive to make thatheadpiece just for a regular.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
You know it's a wear.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yeah, so I'm, you know, making one.
That's pretty much the same,but it's usually you like glue,
so you then normally would glueit on, and then that's a
traditional way to do it.
But we couldn't just glue it onbecause then it wouldn't be
safe for children, right, right.
And then I put it had to lookat okay, if we sew it, will it
(22:06):
still look the same, will itstill be cost-effective, all
these things.
But this is me where I was justlike no, I want to do it this
way, but I had to like have someleeway with it, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
I understand that, because you have to make sure
that it's safe, first of all,for children to play with, so
you know you can't have stuffthat's that they could pick off
they could take off easily, youknow and then creating something
, like you said, a flower that'sso delicate, and making it so
small, making it small enough,but also making it represent
what it's supposed to representas well.
(22:42):
How many iterations did youhave for each doll?
So, when you created a designlike, how many iterations did
you have of that?
One design for each doll?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I can't even tell you , I don't even think I've.
I tried to keep track of likeokay, this is the next version,
next one.
But because there were so manydolls as well like, so we were
doing them all like at the sametime.
And then, yeah, like I didn'tjust do okay, chinese doll, and
like let's complete that one.
And so actually one of thechallenges was finding the right
(23:12):
manufacturer overseas to beable to put with me, because a
lot of the time people would say, oh, I'd be willing to help you
do it, and, but then we'd hitlike a roadblock and then like
okay, we need to find someoneelse.
And then I would go to the nextmanufacturer and like, okay, I
didn't want to keep going withthis whole like process, like
starting all over again, andthat's what like also took a lot
(23:33):
of the time.
Is that trying to find thatright person?
Speaker 1 (23:37):
And you can kind of think about it like dating, that
you know when you find someone,but it's not quite right, but
you're like let's just keepgoing because, like I've already
invested on this time and youwere doing that during COVID yes
, oh my gosh, like wow, thatmust have been a huge challenge.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah, I was, and then sometimes I just wish I could
just glide over there and justgo.
I want it exactly like this.
And so there was a lot of likelanguage barrier but also just
like time delay, with likehaving to ship it over and
shipping was taking a long timeand all of this.
So once we did find like themanufacturer that was able to
(24:20):
really see our vision through,and then I was like, okay, now
we got to get them out as quickas we can.
But also I already kind of 98%had the like, the vision of like
each doll by that, but it stilltook a long time to get to that
point.
Yeah, so at that point it wasalready I think it was two years
into it, and so I wasdeveloping a following online
(24:43):
and a lot of people were justlike, how can we get the doll
like right away?
They just wanted it so badly.
But I was just telling peopleplease be patient, because I can
want it to be perfect and Iwanted it to be right.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
So right, yeah, I get that.
I totally get that.
So how much are you talkingabout?
You had already developed acommunity.
So how did that work for you?
You know, when you talk, youtalk about creating designs,
having an idea, creating designs, but now you have to market
that.
Now you have to get it out tothe right people.
Now you have to get enoughpeople to see it.
So how did that process startfor you?
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah, so initially it was just social media, so I was
just posting and of course, youstart off with zero followers
and I'm like, is anyone evengoing to be interested in it?
And that's when I really waslooking at doing things as cheap
as possible because I didn'tknow if anyone would buy them.
And then, as I was like justdoing like illustrations, like
(25:40):
concepts, people were interested, but they weren't like so
interested because they werestill confused about like how
would they actually really look?
And then when I first put outlike the one of the very first
prototypes, which looks nowhereto what it looks now, people
were like wow, like oh, mygoodness, that's what they look
like.
They're so cute.
(26:00):
This like representative, Iwant them.
And so it just reallysnowballed from there.
And also, when I was just likelooking on, like even like say,
facebook groups, like looking at, like asking questions, like
for people to have input on,actually developed an interest
and then would share, I wouldshare, okay.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Okay.
So because you reach out to thecommunity to ask for their
input, you kind of probably gota lot more people interested and
people see what you were doing.
So that kind of helped, I think, a lot.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
And I think it helps people feel, yeah, part of that
process, but also like thereason why I was doing
everything instead, because alot of the time people think,
especially on my social media, Idon't I really do need to put
my face out there more, butpeople think I'm just like this
corporation or this company haslike this big budget behind it
(26:54):
or like all these differentoptions and all these things,
but I am really only one personbeing able to do this, and so I
hope that you know, if I startwith the six dolls, I can do
more in the future.
But initially, yeah, peoplewould have all these ideas of
like how we should do them andall of this, and I was like no,
(27:16):
like spend a lot of time likeexplaining like why we did
certain things, and you know,please be patient.
Like, in the future, we hope tohave some options, like, for
example, people wanted differentskin tones to be able to choose
from for each doll and I hopethat I can do them, but not like
right now, because, of course,we have minimum orders that we
(27:37):
have to do and like just addslike a lot of complexity to the
whole all of it, Are you still?
Speaker 1 (27:43):
are you still just a one man?
Speaker 2 (27:44):
fan.
Yeah, pretty much like I havelike an assistant that helps me
like especially with socialmedia.
I can't respond to all thequestions and the comments and
all of that, but pretty muchit's just me and then I lean on
my husband here and there.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
So he becomes the worker at some point.
Let me ask you this question Doyou have any dolls to show?
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah, I do.
This is the Korean doll.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Actually, this is the cut out of her.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yeah, so that was the .
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Vietnamese one, oh, and she came for and this one is
done.
B and is I code the sorryJapanese one?
It's adorable oh and you know,like I remember when I was
(28:42):
designing them my daughtercouldn't even speak at the time
and I was designing them on thecomputer and she would just see
the face and she would giggleand laugh just by seeing them on
the computer, like not evenhaving a person.
And I thought, like that's thereason why I want to make these
dolls is to like really spreadjoy and happiness for people,
(29:04):
like to really be like anopposite, like with all the hate
that we've seen in the lastcouple of years.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
We just need that in our world to be able to spread
joy to everyone.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
So yeah, this is a Filipino doll.
Her name is Malaya.
One is Kamala, the Indian doll.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Hey, beautiful.
I love the outfit, so cute.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Yeah, she's one of my favorites.
She's just like super blingyand yeah.
Yeah, she is Okay as the lastone.
And this is a Chinese doll.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
So cute they are adorable.
They are just so cute.
So let me ask you where did youget the name from Joey dolls?
Where did that come from?
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Yeah, so actually my name, oh, sorry my name my
daughter's name is Josephine,but we call her Joey and so I
figured that she was theinspiration behind all of this,
so I named her Joey dolls.
But also, as I mentioned before, was that I wanted the doll to
be like a playmate for mydaughter, like a companion.
(30:07):
So the name Joey like I'mactually I grew up in Australia
so the name Joey is like a slang.
Of course it's a name for likea baby koala, baby kangaroo, but
also the slang for like a youngchild.
I was like kind of fitting thatyou know that I want these dolls
(30:28):
to be like a friend, not justlike okay doll, but I really
wanted them to be seen as afriend that they could have at
times of comfort.
My youngest daughter right now,like she just started daycare
like two days a week and she hasbeen struggling a little bit
because she's not even two yearsold and she can't talk and you
(30:51):
know she's like in this newenvironment but we give her one
of the dolls and like when theysend us pictures of her at
daycare, she's always likeholding the doll, like
underneath her arm, and I justlike, oh, my goodness, like I
was able to give that comfort toher, to have something that
she's familiar with, that shefeels safe with, that she can
(31:15):
feel loved that way yeah that'sso important too, feeling safe.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
You know that's just well.
That's really so important.
So I'm so glad you mentionedthat about what your daughter
does with the dolls and how it'sreally.
You know it's probably helpingher a lot get through all the
changes that are happening forher.
You know, being away from you,being in a new environment.
So that brings me back toasking you what's been the most
rewarding right Experience foryou since starting the Joey
(31:42):
Dolls and, in terms of impact onyou know, the children and
their families, what's been themost rewarding for you in that?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Yeah.
So because the dolls are stillcurrently like pre-order right
now, I haven't like I'm stillwaiting for the full production,
that like they're being shippedover right now I'm eagerly
waiting to send that to everyone.
Yeah, but I still think likethe response online has been
really amazing, like being ableto like we sold out like $2,200
(32:11):
within 48 hours.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
That is so nice, mia, that's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah, and just like the response, like people
sending me messages, like takingthe time to say thank you so
much for doing this for mychildren, for the future
generation and even for peoplethat don't have children.
They said, oh my gosh, likeseeing the dolls brought tears
to my eyes because of myunhealed childhood and even for
(32:37):
adopted children that didn'thave a connection to their
heritage, and also parents ofadopted children who didn't know
how to connect their adoptedchild to their culture.
So like there's so many waysthat I think our dolls can help
(33:00):
people and having that feedback,like people I've had mixed
families where they're not Asian, so I would say things like it
was such an eye-openingexperience being a parent of an
Asian child, like looking fortoys or books and it being so,
(33:23):
yeah, so eye-opening that it wasso difficult to find that
representation, like they didn'tsee that until they had their
child, and how they just felt sojoyful that they were able to
find out like our brand, to beable to give them that tool, to
be able to give that to theirchildren.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Yeah, wow, that made me so emotional For a minute.
You're talking about that,especially the children who
adopted, I think, because it'slike you know, you don't.
As a parent, you want to makesure that your child feels loved
and accepted, and when there'snothing out there that
(34:02):
represents that and you can'tfind anything that represents
that, and you're a differentrace or different culture, I
think that that's really reallyhard.
You know.
I know we talk a lot about thisin the Caucasian family
adopting an African-Americanchild.
It's the same way, right.
What I think is very interestingwhen I'm having this
conversation with you is that Ithink a lot of people don't
(34:25):
understand that there's such alack of representation in so
many different cultures when itcomes to information to provide
for their children.
You know, it's just so.
I just don't think we look atit in that sense, you know,
until we have children and wetry to find something that
represents who they are in thisworld, and then you see the
(34:49):
disparity of you know, not beingrepresented, you know, in this
world, and so I think whatyou're doing is just very
powerful and I, on so manylevels, you know, on so many
levels, I'm just so excited tosee what are the things that are
gonna be happening for you?
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Thank you so much.
I just wanted to mention alsothat I couldn't believe that we
also had families reach out tous in Asia who said they
themselves can't find Asiandolls in Asia and the only dolls
out there are like these blondedolls with white skin.
(35:25):
And so, like you said, likeit's crazy that like so many are
not represented in their owncountries.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
We had a woman who was on the show about three,
maybe two, three years ago, andthat was her.
She made it her business tomake sure that there were
African-American dolls, or blackdolls, in Africa.
There are some parts of Africathat did not.
in the stores they could notfind black dolls and we're like
like we're just like really, Imean, they just couldn't find
(35:56):
them and literally, she wouldhave people donate and send them
over because they were notselling them.
It was just amazing Again, butI just don't think that people
understand how important it isto have representation, even in
a doll.
Absolutely, it's very profound.
It's just something that's soneeded, because dolls is
(36:17):
something that gives childrencomfort To see themselves
represented in.
That is just powerful and it'sjust something that needs to
continually happen in this worldand you're part of that.
So that's a beautiful thing.
That's a beautiful thing, thankyou.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
And then one more thing actually my daughter is
when I first came up with thefirst prototype.
So I just had various skintones for the dolls and,
interestingly, when I asked themwhich ones are your favorite,
they would always gravitate tothe Filipino and Indian doll,
which are the darker dolls.
I never had any, I never swayedthem in any way to which doll
(36:59):
would look better or whatever,but they would always say I love
these two dolls.
And I just thought it was sointeresting that they naturally
chose those dolls at a young agebecause they were introduced
early enough that they werevalued, valued, right, whereas
society what is taught verysubliminally that people of
(37:22):
darker skin tones are not valued.
And I just think that if we canchange this narrative, like
earlier, for what it would dofor a society as a whole?
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Yes, oh, it would be.
It would just be so powerful,you know, Cause it would just
allow people just to be who theyare, you know, and not feel bad
about the way they look, youknow, or where they're from.
It would just really be abeautiful thing.
It really would be, because Iand just limit, like you said,
just the hatred, and I mean andthat was one of the things that
(37:55):
started that for you, you know,was seeing how the Asian culture
was being represented andtreated, you know, during the
COVID times and you know, Ithink at this point in day and
age, in our world, nobody shouldbe treated that way.
Don't care what you look like,like we're all people.
So, but thank you so much forreally pursuing that, you know,
(38:18):
because you, everybody, can comeup with an idea, but, you know,
deciding to pursue that issomething totally different, and
I'm so glad that you perseveredand did that.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
So, um, oh, thank you so much.
I so appreciate it.
Thank you, oh, you're sowelcome.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
So, before we head out, I just wanted to find out
from you how do you see JoeyDahls evolving in the future and
like, like you, have newprojects.
I know you said you wanted toactually incorporate more Dahls,
but what do you see it becomingin the future for you?
Speaker 2 (38:45):
So I really do think that I want to put it back into
the community like what theywant to see.
But what I've like heard andseen from what people have
requested so far is that boyDahls are real like, are in a
huge demand that boys don't havethis.
They need to have that.
They deserve to have that likefeeling of self-love that
(39:06):
they're worthy and that they'rerepresented.
Just because we have thisconcept of that girls only play
with Dahls and boys, don't?
That's?
Speaker 1 (39:15):
not true.
You know how many Dahlsdesigners are men?
Oh my gosh, so many.
That's totally a misconception.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
Yeah, so I really hope to be able to do that and
then, of course, have moreethnicities and cultures
represented and then, of course,like the whole, like there are
a lot of mixed children, or evenlike this concept of, for
example, east Asians only comewith, like lighter skin.
It's not true that you knowthere's such a variety.
(39:45):
So colorism is such an issuethat in Asian communities that
is not really talked about butreally needs to be dismantled.
So I really hope that we cancelebrate not only the different
cultures but also differentskin tones and, like I said, the
different gender, the differentgender, that's right.
Yeah, and so there's so muchthat I could do and I'm excited
(40:09):
about, but one step at a time.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
One step at a time for this one woman band here.
So I know you came into thisspace not knowing how to do any
of this, and so I want to askyou one more question.
So what advice would you giveother inspiring doll makers or
(40:34):
entrepreneurs who want to createtoys that celebrate diversity
and culture and that's neverbeen an entrepreneur Like.
What advice should you givethem?
Well, a doll entrepreneur, letme say that because you've been
an entrepreneur.
You're a photographer, so youunderstand that space.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
But creating toys and celebrating diversity, being in
that space, yeah, I thinkreally, like, everything comes
down to your why, like there'sso many times that I wanted to
give up, but then I've said, ok,I've got to keep going because
there's so many people that willbe able to be fulfilled through
these dolls and I can bring somuch joy to people.
(41:10):
And so if you can reallysolidify that why like?
Why you're doing it and havereally feel connected to that
purpose, I think that everythingwill flow from there.
And of course, yes, it takes alot of work and perseverance and
all of that, but if you reallyunderstand and believe in your
(41:33):
why, then I think that, nomatter what, you'll find your
way.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Yeah, yeah.
And finding people who willsupport you too, I think is
helpful.
You know, groups andorganizations and things like
that I think are reallyimportant, because it will also
keep reminding you, not just ofyour why, but just keep
reminding you that it can bedone.
You know, yes, you see otherpeople doing that, wow.
So where can they find thesebeautiful Joey dolls at?
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Yeah, thanks.
So you can just jump onjoeydollscom that's
J-O-E-Y-D-O-L-L-Scom, and thenyou can also find us on
Instagram it's just joeydollsand also Facebook Same Actually,
we're just joeydolls everywhere.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Well, thank you, Samantha, so much for being a
guest in the doll wall.
I'm so excited to see yourjourney and I hope maybe next
year you can come back on theshow and talk about where you're
at next year, because I'm sureyou're going to have so many
more dolls and you're just goingto be yeah, you're going to
need a staff.
That's all I'm going to say.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
I hope we get there.
But yeah, thank you so much.
I would love to come back onand I so appreciate this
opportunity of speaking with youand sharing our journey and
what we're about, so I soappreciate it.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Oh, you're so welcome .
Thank you again so much forbeing on In the Doll World.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Bye now, thank you.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Bye, hello everybody.
Thank you so much for listeningto In the Doll World.
I hope you enjoyed the show.
Please don't forget to sharethe podcast with other doll
enthusiasts such as yourself.
They can find us at Facebook,instagram and Twitter at In the
Doll World.
The show can also be downloadedon all apps with podcasts or
streamed To see videos of ourinterviews.
(43:10):
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And don't forget, in the DollWorld is also on Alexa.
Just ask Alexa to open DollWorld.
Did you know that you can nowleave a voicemail or give us a
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We would love to hear from youor suggest a guess for the show.
You can do all that by visitingwwwinthedollworldcom and, until
(43:32):
next week, add a little playinto your life by collecting a
doll, sharing a doll or giving adoll a home.
And again, thank you forlistening to In the Doll World.
Hello everybody and welcome to In the Dawn World, a
show spotlighting the passionand the people of the Dawn
community With your host,georgia Taylor, former vice
president and co-founder of BigBeautiful Dolls.
Join her as she talks tofascinating Dawn artists,
customizers, avid collectors,redesigners, authors and all the
people in between, as theyshare their journeys, give us
(00:27):
glimpses into their processesand will propel their passion
and drive to help keep the Dawnworld moving and shaking.
Welcome to the show, helloeverybody, and welcome to In the
Dawn World.
I'm your host, georgia Taylor,and, as always, I'm so excited
that you joined me today and soexcited to bring some amazing
(00:48):
new Dawn creators to ourlisteners, and today is no
exception.
Today we have Samantha Ong.
She is the founder and CEO ofJoey Dolls and I want to welcome
her to In the Dawn World.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Hi, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Thank you so much, Samantha, for joining me.
I'm so excited to be able tohave you share what it is that
you do talk about your dolls,because they are just precious.
I absolutely love them.
They're just the cutest thing,and so would you just share with
our audience where you're fromand how you decided to come up
with this inspirational line ofdolls?
(01:25):
I think it's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yes thank you.
So we're based in Toronto andit really all began.
I'm actually a weddingphotographer, so it was like
during the pandemic where I wasreally stripped of the ability
to work.
I had so many weddings canceledso I was stuck at home.
I thought it was actuallyturned out to be a blessing,
(01:47):
because when you have a smallbusiness, you don't really think
to take maternity leave foryourself, and so I just went
straight in.
After having her giving birthto her, I went straight into
working weddings, which wasreally insane.
So this pandemic forced me toreally reprioritize my life and
then spend some time with her,and so as I was doing that, I
(02:11):
was watching news of thepandemic and seeing anti-Asian
hate really increasingsignificantly.
I remember feeling sort ofashamed of my own, how I look,
potentially being scared aboutwhat people might think of me.
I was seeing a lot of hatespeech, especially surrounding
(02:36):
spreading the virus, where itcame from, and all of that, and
also a lot of what was talkedabout was referring to Asians as
one group, and when you have achild, I really feel that you
see the world through their eyes, but also you reflect upon your
(02:57):
own childhood.
And so when I was having allthese thoughts, I thought, oh
gosh, I don't want her to feelashamed of being Asian or how
she looks.
Just like I did when I wasyounger, I remember telling my
dad speak English, or I wasreally envious of my classmates
(03:18):
who were blonde and blue-eyed.
Those were the dolls that Iplayed with, and I really do
think that had such an impact onhow I viewed myself in society
that I was always the other.
I was never supposed to be themain character or someone that
would be something in society.
(03:38):
I remember thinking vividly tomyself I could never be a
princess, I could never be inHollywood, I could never be
someone of significance and sotrack along just being the other
person.
I understand, yeah, cool.
(04:01):
So also, of course, we werestuck in the pandemic, we were
just all alone.
So it was really myself and mydaughter and my husband had to
work the front lines and we werefeeling very lonely.
So that's when I really thought, ok, let's look for some dolls
that she could feel comforted by, and I really wanted to look
for dolls that she could seeherself in.
And so, as I was looking, Icouldn't believe how very little
(04:26):
there was out there.
Even to this day.
We talk about diversity, wetalk about representation, and
there's just really not much outthere.
Of course there are a few, butwhat I tend to see that was out
there.
There would be a whole range ofdolls and then there'll be that
one token Asian doll and ittended to have stereotypical
(04:46):
features and then fair skin,black hair, and then somehow it
was called Asian and then evensometimes they weren't even very
Asian looking, they stilllooked very white.
So I was really disappointed inwhat I could see.
I personally couldn't connectwith them.
I couldn't feel proud to givethat to my daughter, and so it
(05:10):
was around the time when she wasone years old it was her
birthday we normally wanted toput her in her traditional Asian
outfit.
So actually I'm Chinese,malaysian and my husband's
Korean.
So, although we're Asian, butwe became most specific yeah,
chinese, korean, malaysian.
So we celebrate our culturethrough our outfits and through
(05:34):
our food and all of this.
But then I was like we don't dothat through dolls.
And so as I was looking andlooking and I felt so frustrated
and my husband was just like,well, if you can't find anyone,
you make one.
I was like, oh, easy for you tosay Easy to say to them, right.
(05:55):
Exactly because I was like Idon't have any experience.
I don't have any toy experience, I don't have any fashion
experience or sewing experienceat all, and so there was so much
to learn.
But I just really came down toOK, if I want to do this for my
(06:17):
own daughter which was myprimary goal at the time how
many other children can I helpthrough these dolls?
And so I think that reallypropelled me in redefining my
mission with creating the dolls,taking this ginormous hill of
learning and workload.
(06:38):
People think it's much so funand easy to make these dolls,
but it was a lot, a lot, a lotof work, and especially because
I tried to spend my time with mydaughter during the day, and I
just looked on these at night sothere were so many late nights
and stuff.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
She was very young, then right when you started,
right.
So let me share some of thechallenges that you face in
creating not just even a doll,but creating a line of
Asian-inspired dolls.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
It was not knowing how to sew, and so, also, I
wanted to do it locally at first, and so I was trying to find a
doll designer, initially locallyand then me not being able to
work for basically two yearsduring the pandemic.
I had a very small investment,like I didn't want to put so
much of my own funds into it, soI was trying to do things very.
(07:29):
What you're conscious right,exactly Because I didn't have
all this money to spend, and soI struggled with that.
Initially, like the cost justwent up really high.
Also, like finding the rightmaterials.
I thought it would be a loteasier to find various skin
tones that I could pick from,like various shades of beige and
(07:52):
, you know, browns and all theselike.
But I couldn't believe how hardit was.
And that's when I was like,okay, I had to take this
overseas because there had morevariety and then, if I needed to
, I could custom Right.
Of course, that still requiredlike a large investment to do
custom fabrics and all of that,but it was just so much more I
(08:14):
had access to.
More obviously Right, anddefinitely when it came to the
cultural aspect, like, Iremember being so worried about
getting things right because Idon't want to offend anyone, I
don't want to pretend that Iknow what it is like to be
Vietnamese or like what'simportant for them.
(08:34):
So there was a lot of designchanges.
So, even though it took me it'sbeen three years to the like
until like when it's November,three years has like accepted
this idea.
So I'm feeling a little sad atthat Because of all the
reiterations I was able to likeredefine what we were about and
(08:56):
what was important for the dollto have, whereas if I pushed out
the doll that I had three yearsago, like my initial idea, I
don't think I would have beenvery proud of it and I don't
think people would haveconnected with it.
Yeah, so I'm actually reallyglad that we went through those
changes.
Like wait, I spent a lot of timeasking people in the community
(09:16):
to give feedback.
I'm like reaching out and thecommunity has been really,
really, really beautiful.
Yeah, and that's what I think Iwant it to be really about that
these dolls aren't just me.
Making these dolls Like it'sbeen like a real collaborative
effort and it's for thecommunity that everyone feels a
(09:37):
part of this journey as well,because they have had such an
input, especially the names aswell.
Like I made sure that that wasgiven a lot of importance.
Initially I was like I'm justgoing to pick the names, like
how hard can it be?
And then I was like wait, likethe names are going to have so
much meaning and significancefor every culture, and so that's
(10:02):
when I like really put it outthere for people to give
feedback on and help choose thename.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Yeah, I think I think , wow, do you know, just listen
into the way that you you didthe process.
I just really want to justcongratulate you on that because
I think a lot of people, likeyou said, would not necessarily
think about you know specificAsian cultures and ask for their
input.
They would just take it uponthemselves to think, oh, I know
this.
So I think I know this and thisis what I'm going to represent.
(10:32):
So kudos to you for doing that.
I think that that made it somuch more culturally, I think,
inspired by doing that.
Now, how many, how manycultures do your dolls represent
and what are their names?
I'm so glad that you said that,that you went to the culture
and said, hey, what about thisname?
Does this work?
Because it may.
It's a different meaning and itrepresents something to them.
(10:55):
You know that's reallyimportant, so that's really
beautiful that you did that.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Thank you.
Yeah, so we have six culturesand ethnicities, and so we have
Chinese, vietnamese, filipino,korean, indian and Indian.
Oh sorry, I want to try it inJapanese and so, yeah, so I have
(11:22):
six and their names.
So we have the Chinese doll isMay, and then we have Filipino,
her name is Malaya, and then wehave the Vietnamese doll, which
is Hua, and then the Indian dollis Kamala, and then the Korean
doll is Danbi, and then Japanesedoll is Aiko.
(11:43):
Yeah, they all have meaningsand so I want it was such a
actually just in the name itself.
It was such a process Because,for example, the Indian doll I
didn't realize, like how manylanguages there are in India the
interpretation of the namescould mean different things.
But also a lot of the names werevery religious focused.
(12:07):
So, because I want these dollsto be relatable for children, I
didn't want them to be justrelatable to one like one
religious background.
So that's where it got reallytricky is that I had to make
sure that a name could berelatable to different, you know
(12:27):
, religious backgrounds andlanguages, and then it still
meant something of significance.
So it was a real process, likeresearching each name and then
even like betting them withvarious people and, of course,
various people had differentopinions, and all of that that
was interesting work that youhad to do.
I had no idea that I would cometo this in making this doll, but
(12:48):
it means so much to people thatof course I had to give that so
much importance.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yeah, that's so true.
So, like, in what ways reallydo you believe or see the
representation of toys and yourdolls really contributing to
helping you know racism andforce during a self, you know, I
guess, a sense of self worthand love with children, with you
know among themselves?
(13:15):
Like, do you believe that thosethings can happen because of
dolls and toys?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah.
So upon my research, when I waslooking up dolls and early
development, I actually had noidea that babies as young as 10
months can recognize racialdifferences and that they tend
to excite with or bias like withpeople that look like
themselves or different.
(13:41):
So, like this is so importantfor, like our world, world is so
diverse, to not just see onetype of Look or like race, to be
really familiar with many.
That's why I wanted so badly todo at least six dolls and I
(14:01):
really hope that I can do morein the future Because at the
very beginning people were like,just start with one doll.
Like you don't have anexperience, just start with one
doll.
And I was like really stubbornabout it.
I really wanted to do at leastsix because, like just seeing
the six on its own, you can seealready, like this, so much
diversity within the Asiandiaspora that it's so important
(14:24):
to be able to Recognize that andhave that education for people.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Because I got really saw this, like you know, during
the pandemic or even you know,other times where you know we've
traveled and People and justlike my husband's Korean and
people tend to think he'sChinese, yeah, there's a lot of
assumptions and just like notenough education, I guess, and
so I'm really hoping that ifpeople, if children or even, you
(14:54):
know, adults, I like we get,you know, a lot of people get
caught up and, like you said,their own ideas of what that,
what that looks like, you know,and if you see a different
culture, you just you know, youwant to tend to put it in one
box, like that's, that's whothey are, right, or if I, you
know, you see a face that looksdifferent, oh well, that's what
(15:16):
they are and that's not.
That's not the truth.
I think it forces you, justlike it did you, in the sense it
forced you to learn that therewas so many languages and in the
end, it was so many differentThings that came with names.
You know, representation ofnames were so different as well.
So it just isn't just becauseyou look one way doesn't
necessarily mean that that'sthat.
(15:36):
There's so many facets of that.
It's not just how you know.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
So, yeah, right, of course, yes, exactly.
That's why I really hope thatthese girls can just be like a
starting point for a lot moreConversation and education, and
I do hope that, of course, wewant the dolls to be the primary
of our like a brand, but wereally do want to explore, like,
how we can use the dolls foreducation, like, maybe, like
(16:04):
even with each doll, you canscan the QR code on the hang tag
and learn more about, like whywe told Because the name, what's
the significance about it, whatis on their outfit, what other
significance behind that, and Ihope that we can expand on that
Like we've put out like factsabout each country and I hope
(16:27):
that you know we can continuedown this road to provide more
Resources for parents to be likefor tools Promoting diversity.
So I really hope that parents,or like as adults, like that not
only choose Adult that maybe istheir own heritage, that also
(16:48):
they could choose to look at theother dolls for introducing
that for their children.
I do hope that dolls could bePlayed with with children
outside the Asian community,because you know we really have
to.
I really want it to benormalized, that that normal to
(17:10):
play with an Asian doll or ablack doll, even if you're not
of that background right, right,that's so, that's so true.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
I mean, I think that was one of the things that we
thought about when we were doingthe big, beautiful dolls is
because, you know Me and my myfriend, you know, plus size
Women and we just felt, lookingat the fashion doll world, there
was nothing that representedthat right.
But yet, you know, 40% of womenwere certain size, you know,
and so we wanted it to that tobe the norm, like even, you know
(17:41):
, you have all array of thesebeautiful fashion dolls and they
should range from smaller tobigger, because this is who we
are, you know, in this, in thisworld.
This is who we are in thisworld.
It it took many, many years,you know, that was 1999 and 2000
, and that was like unheard ofagain.
And we felt the same way whenwe walked into the doll I'll,
(18:02):
there was nothing that it wasn'teven $1 at a.
This is who we are, you know.
So I definitely understand whereyou're coming from in the sense
of wanting it to be, wanting,you know, not just your culture
but other cultures to berepresented, because we are a
melting pot.
I mean, this is just what theworld is, and so there should be
dolls that represent all, allaspects, all, all abilities, all
(18:26):
disabilities, right, all colors, all shapes and sizes, because
that is who we are as people.
So I Again, I'm so excitedabout your dolls.
Let me ask you this questionnow Do you think that dolls
would have been kind of inCreated without you having an
experience as being a mother?
Speaker 2 (18:44):
No, I don't think I would have thought to like, look
at dolls, and so I think that'sa huge blessing that I have had
this experience, like, like Isaid, when I am with her, I look
at the world through her eyes.
So it's like how do I want toredefine her like way of life?
That was different, right, andchanging that narrative, and how
(19:09):
, in creating the dolls, how Ican change the narrative for
other children.
And I would have never thoughtabout that If it weren't having
her, because I wouldn't like mychildhood was just like in the
past now.
And of course, I would havethought like, okay, there needs
to be more representation on TVand right, but it would have
been something you thought youwould have just go ahead and did
(19:30):
right no.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah, I get, I understand that.
How do you, how do yourepresent all the cultures like
through, I guess there and theheritage through their designs?
How do you incorporate thatinto their designs?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yeah.
So I really at first, like Iwanted to look up what the
traditional dress for each hewas, and so I started from there
and then Then I startedreaching out to people like what
do you think?
I started drafting what itcould be and then and then and
then I started like adding a lotof details.
(20:06):
So this is where I think mychallenge really was, because of
course, you can make certainthings on like a full-size
outfit, but also making it likecost-effective and also really
miniature, because everything ishandmade that it was so
difficult to Do, like, forexample, that people don't
(20:28):
realize like the Chinese knotsare all handmade.
So of course, when you do themon a larger scale, you know you
can knock them, but then, likethese pieces are so tiny like
it's just impossible.
But I was so stubborn like Ihad no have to do these like
because I want them to be likereally authentic.
And then we went through so manymethods like, okay, well, do we
(20:50):
print them, do we embroiderthem?
And we there was a long processof figuring out like what would
look best and the functionality, making it easy for children to
be able to play with and thenunderstand like the aspects of a
traditional dress and, ofcourse, like, had to simplify
some of them, but also I wantedto make them as authentic as
(21:15):
possible.
So, like, even like the Koreanheadpiece, like initially we had
it, it's just like a littleflower and I was like, oh no,
can we make it like a trueheadpiece?
But also without a lot of like,we have to simplify it because
we didn't want all these pearls,because, right, it would not
make for children, right.
(21:35):
And then, like the, theJapanese headpiece usually is
quite expensive to make thatheadpiece just for a regular.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
You know it's a wear.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yeah, so I'm, you know, making one.
That's pretty much the same,but it's usually you like glue,
so you then normally would glueit on, and then that's a
traditional way to do it.
But we couldn't just glue it onbecause then it wouldn't be
safe for children, right, right.
And then I put it had to lookat okay, if we sew it, will it
(22:06):
still look the same, will itstill be cost-effective, all
these things.
But this is me where I was justlike no, I want to do it this
way, but I had to like have someleeway with it, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
I understand that, because you have to make sure
that it's safe, first of all,for children to play with, so
you know you can't have stuffthat's that they could pick off
they could take off easily, youknow and then creating something
, like you said, a flower that'sso delicate, and making it so
small, making it small enough,but also making it represent
what it's supposed to representas well.
(22:42):
How many iterations did youhave for each doll?
So, when you created a designlike, how many iterations did
you have of that?
One design for each doll?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I can't even tell you , I don't even think I've.
I tried to keep track of likeokay, this is the next version,
next one.
But because there were so manydolls as well like, so we were
doing them all like at the sametime.
And then, yeah, like I didn'tjust do okay, chinese doll, and
like let's complete that one.
And so actually one of thechallenges was finding the right
(23:12):
manufacturer overseas to beable to put with me, because a
lot of the time people would say, oh, I'd be willing to help you
do it, and, but then we'd hitlike a roadblock and then like
okay, we need to find someoneelse.
And then I would go to the nextmanufacturer and like, okay, I
didn't want to keep going withthis whole like process, like
starting all over again, andthat's what like also took a lot
(23:33):
of the time.
Is that trying to find thatright person?
Speaker 1 (23:37):
And you can kind of think about it like dating, that
you know when you find someone,but it's not quite right, but
you're like let's just keepgoing because, like I've already
invested on this time and youwere doing that during COVID yes
, oh my gosh, like wow, thatmust have been a huge challenge.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah, I was, and then sometimes I just wish I could
just glide over there and justgo.
I want it exactly like this.
And so there was a lot of likelanguage barrier but also just
like time delay, with likehaving to ship it over and
shipping was taking a long timeand all of this.
So once we did find like themanufacturer that was able to
(24:20):
really see our vision through,and then I was like, okay, now
we got to get them out as quickas we can.
But also I already kind of 98%had the like, the vision of like
each doll by that, but it stilltook a long time to get to that
point.
Yeah, so at that point it wasalready I think it was two years
into it, and so I wasdeveloping a following online
(24:43):
and a lot of people were justlike, how can we get the doll
like right away?
They just wanted it so badly.
But I was just telling peopleplease be patient, because I can
want it to be perfect and Iwanted it to be right.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
So right, yeah, I get that.
I totally get that.
So how much are you talkingabout?
You had already developed acommunity.
So how did that work for you?
You know, when you talk, youtalk about creating designs,
having an idea, creating designs, but now you have to market
that.
Now you have to get it out tothe right people.
Now you have to get enoughpeople to see it.
So how did that process startfor you?
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah, so initially it was just social media, so I was
just posting and of course, youstart off with zero followers
and I'm like, is anyone evengoing to be interested in it?
And that's when I really waslooking at doing things as cheap
as possible because I didn'tknow if anyone would buy them.
And then, as I was like justdoing like illustrations, like
(25:40):
concepts, people were interested, but they weren't like so
interested because they werestill confused about like how
would they actually really look?
And then when I first put outlike the one of the very first
prototypes, which looks nowhereto what it looks now, people
were like wow, like oh, mygoodness, that's what they look
like.
They're so cute.
(26:00):
This like representative, Iwant them.
And so it just reallysnowballed from there.
And also, when I was just likelooking on, like even like say,
facebook groups, like looking at, like asking questions, like
for people to have input on,actually developed an interest
and then would share, I wouldshare, okay.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Okay.
So because you reach out to thecommunity to ask for their
input, you kind of probably gota lot more people interested and
people see what you were doing.
So that kind of helped, I think, a lot.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
And I think it helps people feel, yeah, part of that
process, but also like thereason why I was doing
everything instead, because alot of the time people think,
especially on my social media, Idon't I really do need to put
my face out there more, butpeople think I'm just like this
corporation or this company haslike this big budget behind it
(26:54):
or like all these differentoptions and all these things,
but I am really only one personbeing able to do this, and so I
hope that you know, if I startwith the six dolls, I can do
more in the future.
But initially, yeah, peoplewould have all these ideas of
like how we should do them andall of this, and I was like no,
(27:16):
like spend a lot of time likeexplaining like why we did
certain things, and you know,please be patient.
Like, in the future, we hope tohave some options, like, for
example, people wanted differentskin tones to be able to choose
from for each doll and I hopethat I can do them, but not like
right now, because, of course,we have minimum orders that we
(27:37):
have to do and like just addslike a lot of complexity to the
whole all of it, Are you still?
Speaker 1 (27:43):
are you still just a one man?
Speaker 2 (27:44):
fan.
Yeah, pretty much like I havelike an assistant that helps me
like especially with socialmedia.
I can't respond to all thequestions and the comments and
all of that, but pretty muchit's just me and then I lean on
my husband here and there.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
So he becomes the worker at some point.
Let me ask you this question Doyou have any dolls to show?
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah, I do.
This is the Korean doll.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Actually, this is the cut out of her.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yeah, so that was the .
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Vietnamese one, oh, and she came for and this one is
done.
B and is I code the sorryJapanese one?
It's adorable oh and you know,like I remember when I was
(28:42):
designing them my daughtercouldn't even speak at the time
and I was designing them on thecomputer and she would just see
the face and she would giggleand laugh just by seeing them on
the computer, like not evenhaving a person.
And I thought, like that's thereason why I want to make these
dolls is to like really spreadjoy and happiness for people,
(29:04):
like to really be like anopposite, like with all the hate
that we've seen in the lastcouple of years.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
We just need that in our world to be able to spread
joy to everyone.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
So yeah, this is a Filipino doll.
Her name is Malaya.
One is Kamala, the Indian doll.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Hey, beautiful.
I love the outfit, so cute.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Yeah, she's one of my favorites.
She's just like super blingyand yeah.
Yeah, she is Okay as the lastone.
And this is a Chinese doll.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
So cute they are adorable.
They are just so cute.
So let me ask you where did youget the name from Joey dolls?
Where did that come from?
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Yeah, so actually my name, oh, sorry my name my
daughter's name is Josephine,but we call her Joey and so I
figured that she was theinspiration behind all of this,
so I named her Joey dolls.
But also, as I mentioned before, was that I wanted the doll to
be like a playmate for mydaughter, like a companion.
(30:07):
So the name Joey like I'mactually I grew up in Australia
so the name Joey is like a slang.
Of course it's a name for likea baby koala, baby kangaroo, but
also the slang for like a youngchild.
I was like kind of fitting thatyou know that I want these dolls
(30:28):
to be like a friend, not justlike okay doll, but I really
wanted them to be seen as afriend that they could have at
times of comfort.
My youngest daughter right now,like she just started daycare
like two days a week and she hasbeen struggling a little bit
because she's not even two yearsold and she can't talk and you
(30:51):
know she's like in this newenvironment but we give her one
of the dolls and like when theysend us pictures of her at
daycare, she's always likeholding the doll, like
underneath her arm, and I justlike, oh, my goodness, like I
was able to give that comfort toher, to have something that
she's familiar with, that shefeels safe with, that she can
(31:15):
feel loved that way yeah that'sso important too, feeling safe.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
You know that's just well.
That's really so important.
So I'm so glad you mentionedthat about what your daughter
does with the dolls and how it'sreally.
You know it's probably helpingher a lot get through all the
changes that are happening forher.
You know, being away from you,being in a new environment.
So that brings me back toasking you what's been the most
rewarding right Experience foryou since starting the Joey
(31:42):
Dolls and, in terms of impact onyou know, the children and
their families, what's been themost rewarding for you in that?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Yeah.
So because the dolls are stillcurrently like pre-order right
now, I haven't like I'm stillwaiting for the full production,
that like they're being shippedover right now I'm eagerly
waiting to send that to everyone.
Yeah, but I still think likethe response online has been
really amazing, like being ableto like we sold out like $2,200
(32:11):
within 48 hours.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
That is so nice, mia, that's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah, and just like the response, like people
sending me messages, like takingthe time to say thank you so
much for doing this for mychildren, for the future
generation and even for peoplethat don't have children.
They said, oh my gosh, likeseeing the dolls brought tears
to my eyes because of myunhealed childhood and even for
(32:37):
adopted children that didn'thave a connection to their
heritage, and also parents ofadopted children who didn't know
how to connect their adoptedchild to their culture.
So like there's so many waysthat I think our dolls can help
(33:00):
people and having that feedback,like people I've had mixed
families where they're not Asian, so I would say things like it
was such an eye-openingexperience being a parent of an
Asian child, like looking fortoys or books and it being so,
(33:23):
yeah, so eye-opening that it wasso difficult to find that
representation, like they didn'tsee that until they had their
child, and how they just felt sojoyful that they were able to
find out like our brand, to beable to give them that tool, to
be able to give that to theirchildren.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Yeah, wow, that made me so emotional For a minute.
You're talking about that,especially the children who
adopted, I think, because it'slike you know, you don't.
As a parent, you want to makesure that your child feels loved
and accepted, and when there'snothing out there that
(34:02):
represents that and you can'tfind anything that represents
that, and you're a differentrace or different culture, I
think that that's really reallyhard.
You know.
I know we talk a lot about thisin the Caucasian family
adopting an African-Americanchild.
It's the same way, right.
What I think is very interestingwhen I'm having this
conversation with you is that Ithink a lot of people don't
(34:25):
understand that there's such alack of representation in so
many different cultures when itcomes to information to provide
for their children.
You know, it's just so.
I just don't think we look atit in that sense, you know,
until we have children and wetry to find something that
represents who they are in thisworld, and then you see the
(34:49):
disparity of you know, not beingrepresented, you know, in this
world, and so I think whatyou're doing is just very
powerful and I, on so manylevels, you know, on so many
levels, I'm just so excited tosee what are the things that are
gonna be happening for you?
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Thank you so much.
I just wanted to mention alsothat I couldn't believe that we
also had families reach out tous in Asia who said they
themselves can't find Asiandolls in Asia and the only dolls
out there are like these blondedolls with white skin.
(35:25):
And so, like you said, likeit's crazy that like so many are
not represented in their owncountries.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
We had a woman who was on the show about three,
maybe two, three years ago, andthat was her.
She made it her business tomake sure that there were
African-American dolls, or blackdolls, in Africa.
There are some parts of Africathat did not.
in the stores they could notfind black dolls and we're like
like we're just like really, Imean, they just couldn't find
(35:56):
them and literally, she wouldhave people donate and send them
over because they were notselling them.
It was just amazing Again, butI just don't think that people
understand how important it isto have representation, even in
a doll.
Absolutely, it's very profound.
It's just something that's soneeded, because dolls is
(36:17):
something that gives childrencomfort To see themselves
represented in.
That is just powerful and it'sjust something that needs to
continually happen in this worldand you're part of that.
So that's a beautiful thing.
That's a beautiful thing, thankyou.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
And then one more thing actually my daughter is
when I first came up with thefirst prototype.
So I just had various skintones for the dolls and,
interestingly, when I asked themwhich ones are your favorite,
they would always gravitate tothe Filipino and Indian doll,
which are the darker dolls.
I never had any, I never swayedthem in any way to which doll
(36:59):
would look better or whatever,but they would always say I love
these two dolls.
And I just thought it was sointeresting that they naturally
chose those dolls at a young agebecause they were introduced
early enough that they werevalued, valued, right, whereas
society what is taught verysubliminally that people of
(37:22):
darker skin tones are not valued.
And I just think that if we canchange this narrative, like
earlier, for what it would dofor a society as a whole?
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Yes, oh, it would be.
It would just be so powerful,you know, Cause it would just
allow people just to be who theyare, you know, and not feel bad
about the way they look, youknow, or where they're from.
It would just really be abeautiful thing.
It really would be, because Iand just limit, like you said,
just the hatred, and I mean andthat was one of the things that
(37:55):
started that for you, you know,was seeing how the Asian culture
was being represented andtreated, you know, during the
COVID times and you know, Ithink at this point in day and
age, in our world, nobody shouldbe treated that way.
Don't care what you look like,like we're all people.
So, but thank you so much forreally pursuing that, you know,
(38:18):
because you, everybody, can comeup with an idea, but, you know,
deciding to pursue that issomething totally different, and
I'm so glad that you perseveredand did that.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
So, um, oh, thank you so much.
I so appreciate it.
Thank you, oh, you're sowelcome.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
So, before we head out, I just wanted to find out
from you how do you see JoeyDahls evolving in the future and
like, like you, have newprojects.
I know you said you wanted toactually incorporate more Dahls,
but what do you see it becomingin the future for you?
Speaker 2 (38:45):
So I really do think that I want to put it back into
the community like what theywant to see.
But what I've like heard andseen from what people have
requested so far is that boyDahls are real like, are in a
huge demand that boys don't havethis.
They need to have that.
They deserve to have that likefeeling of self-love that
(39:06):
they're worthy and that they'rerepresented.
Just because we have thisconcept of that girls only play
with Dahls and boys, don't?
That's?
Speaker 1 (39:15):
not true.
You know how many Dahlsdesigners are men?
Oh my gosh, so many.
That's totally a misconception.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
Yeah, so I really hope to be able to do that and
then, of course, have moreethnicities and cultures
represented and then, of course,like the whole, like there are
a lot of mixed children, or evenlike this concept of, for
example, east Asians only comewith, like lighter skin.
It's not true that you knowthere's such a variety.
(39:45):
So colorism is such an issuethat in Asian communities that
is not really talked about butreally needs to be dismantled.
So I really hope that we cancelebrate not only the different
cultures but also differentskin tones and, like I said, the
different gender, the differentgender, that's right.
Yeah, and so there's so muchthat I could do and I'm excited
(40:09):
about, but one step at a time.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
One step at a time for this one woman band here.
So I know you came into thisspace not knowing how to do any
of this, and so I want to askyou one more question.
So what advice would you giveother inspiring doll makers or
(40:34):
entrepreneurs who want to createtoys that celebrate diversity
and culture and that's neverbeen an entrepreneur Like.
What advice should you givethem?
Well, a doll entrepreneur, letme say that because you've been
an entrepreneur.
You're a photographer, so youunderstand that space.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
But creating toys and celebrating diversity, being in
that space, yeah, I thinkreally, like, everything comes
down to your why, like there'sso many times that I wanted to
give up, but then I've said, ok,I've got to keep going because
there's so many people that willbe able to be fulfilled through
these dolls and I can bring somuch joy to people.
(41:10):
And so if you can reallysolidify that why like?
Why you're doing it and havereally feel connected to that
purpose, I think that everythingwill flow from there.
And of course, yes, it takes alot of work and perseverance and
all of that, but if you reallyunderstand and believe in your
(41:33):
why, then I think that, nomatter what, you'll find your
way.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Yeah, yeah.
And finding people who willsupport you too, I think is
helpful.
You know, groups andorganizations and things like
that I think are reallyimportant, because it will also
keep reminding you, not just ofyour why, but just keep
reminding you that it can bedone.
You know, yes, you see otherpeople doing that, wow.
So where can they find thesebeautiful Joey dolls at?
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Yeah, thanks.
So you can just jump onjoeydollscom that's
J-O-E-Y-D-O-L-L-Scom, and thenyou can also find us on
Instagram it's just joeydollsand also Facebook Same Actually,
we're just joeydolls everywhere.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Well, thank you, Samantha, so much for being a
guest in the doll wall.
I'm so excited to see yourjourney and I hope maybe next
year you can come back on theshow and talk about where you're
at next year, because I'm sureyou're going to have so many
more dolls and you're just goingto be yeah, you're going to
need a staff.
That's all I'm going to say.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
I hope we get there.
But yeah, thank you so much.
I would love to come back onand I so appreciate this
opportunity of speaking with youand sharing our journey and
what we're about, so I soappreciate it.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Oh, you're so welcome .
Thank you again so much forbeing on In the Doll World.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Bye now, thank you.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Bye, hello everybody.
Thank you so much for listeningto In the Doll World.
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(43:10):
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(43:32):
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doll, sharing a doll or giving adoll a home.
And again, thank you forlistening to In the Doll World.
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