June 19, 2025 • 28 mins
Programming transforms random exercise into structured progress, creating the conditions for measurable improvements in fitness results that random workouts simply cannot provide. The hosts share insights from their 20+ years of experience and explain how proper tracking leads to exponential gains.
• Variation in training is important but shouldn't be confused with randomness
• Effective programming means sticking with the same exercises for roughly 6-8 weeks to achieve progressive overload
• Most people either do the exact same workout for years or bounce randomly between exercises
• Decision fatigue is a real physiological process that can be avoided with proper workout planning
• Programming creates accountability and makes it impossible to ignore weaknesses
• Simple tracking in your phone's notes app can be effective—no fancy systems required
• Volume is key for stubborn muscle groups—sometimes you simply need more sets
• What gets measured gets managed, and what gets managed gets improved
If you're not measuring your workouts through programming and tracking, you're leaving your fitness results to chance. Start writing down your exercises, sets, reps, and weights today, and watch as the same effort produces dramatically better outcomes.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What is programming in the context of nutrition?
Because you can programnutrition in the context of your
exercise, definitely canprogram for exercise.
What gets measured gets managed, and what gets managed gets
improved.
But if we don't measureanything, we can't expect to
improve it.
Welcome to episode 61 in thegrand scheme of fitness.
(00:29):
My name is Justin Scallard andI'm Ethan Wolfe, and we're your
hosts, folks, the hosts with themost is.
In case you don't know who weare maybe you're just tuning in
We've been trainers,nutritionists, for over 20 years
.
We've worked with thousands ofpeople I'm not being hyperbolic.
We've actually worked withthousands of people.
We've owned gyms together.
At this point, ethan has astudio in West Hollywood.
(00:50):
I have a business online, butwe're still very much involved
and working full-time as fitnessprofessionals and we've come
together with this podcast tojust really have some fun and
hang out with each other andtalk shop about fitness and
nutrition and try to give youguys like the real street level
advice that you probably haveheard.
But sometimes the way we hearthings, I think it matters a lot
(01:12):
.
Absolutely, what we're going todo is just take all of our
information and bring it to youguys, but today we're going to
be talking about programmingPrograms.
So what is programming in thecontext of nutrition?
Because you can programnutrition in the context of your
exercise, definitely canprogram for exercise.
And most folks justunfortunately don't do this and
(01:32):
they're really missing out on somuch potential.
Absolutely, so we'll break itdown.
You're talking about yourclient, who you wrote a really
nice program for.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, so yeah, this is kind of what sparked this.
Yeah, basically he wanted toramp up his fitness.
He was getting some results andhe was kind of getting buying
in a little bit more and so hetrained with me twice a week and
he wanted to do four times aweek because I think that's a
nice sweet spot, especially foryeah, of course, resistance
trades.
It's great you get some nice acouple options for some good
splits and that kind of thing.
(02:01):
So, but it is a little morenuanced, meaning that, like, he
trains with me twice, so thoseother two workouts are
particular or specific in termsof he's got to do them on his
own and they're, they'rebalanced, they are like they're,
they're going to be things thathe will do, that we will not do
whatsoever, because yeah
Speaker 1 (02:16):
he did, of the way the split or the organization of
the exercises are because whenyou're doing four days a week
and now it's like you have a legday and a push day and a pull
day and then be like a full bodyday, and so he's on his own
Upper body lower body or push,pull, push, pull.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
There's always ways to break it down, but
fundamentally one of those wewon't participate with all.
So we do like the hard thingsfor him.
So we do like a push day and aleg day and then he gets to do
like a pull day and like kind oflike a single joint pump day.
Yeah, but fundamentally wedon't do any pulling because
it's a little safer, it's alittle easier to access, that
you're on your own.
But if he doesn't do thatworkout at all or he doesn't do
(02:51):
it as prescribed, then he's kindof missing this whole chunk of
his body, this whole balance tothe no.
When I look at the mirror man,it's my back and the thing was
is that he was not that hewasn't doing a back day, he was
showing up but he was kind ofusing the workout as like a
general guide to what he shoulddo.
So he was kind of doingdifferent things every time
Classic, and just wasn'tfollowing this very specific
(03:14):
program.
Not that it was like fancy withbells and whistles, but this
was a very specific program thatI wrote for a very specific
reason.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
And I asked him.
I was like, well, did you dothe four sets of weighted
chin-ups that I have as thefirst like blowout exercise for
you to do?
And he's like, no, I haven'tdone them yet at all.
I'm like it's been like sixweeks since.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I've been doing this Program's over dude, like I'm
already about to write a newsix-week cycle.
You haven't done it once.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah, and so it just made me laugh to explain to him
the benefits and yeah thechallenge and the the ask and
reminded him that it's there fora reason.
I'm not happy.
You're using it as a guidebetter than nothing, but you're
missing out on so many benefits.
You know like I I.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
There are so many years that I did not program and
it would just be like a generalpush day or a general pull day
or a general leg day and I wouldgo in there and I'll be like
all right, well, I'm gonna trythis this time and like sure
that is better than nothing.
Yeah, you get a good workout.
You get a workout like if, aslong as there's some kind of
structure, like but I was also atrainer so I had a little bit
more knowledge than the averageperson and so like.
(04:14):
But you see it all the time.
I mean it's like it's endemicin the fitness space, where it's
like people just go into gymsand they're just like I don't
know.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yesterday I did this, so I guess today I'll do this I
mean, in case you can't see,justin's like imitating a curl
and like imitating like whatwould be like a tricep push down
and it's really funny like arecent newer client would who
came from working out but wantedto step it up.
Same thing.
I'm like so what?
Literally that exact thing.
I'm like what do you do on yourown?
He's like oh, I kind of like dothese imitating curls?
(04:43):
And like maybe something likethese?
Yeah, like no names.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
I just saw some guy do it.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, so I did it, you know, I think that like it's
like you go in and you'rebouncing around.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Okay, I think here's the issue.
Here's an in CrossFit actuallytaught me this is like.
Variation is important we allagree, but I think sometimes
people misinterpret that asrandom.
Yeah, and variation does notmean random.
Variation means you knowthere's going to come a point
where your body is adapted andacclimated to a certain routine
and you're not going to get thesame stimulus anymore, so you're
(05:16):
not going to get any effect.
So there's two camps.
I think there's like people whojust do the exact same work.
They some trainer 10 years agoprinted out a four-week plan for
them and they've literally justdone that for 10 years fast on
mondays for a decade and they'relike I don't understand why I'm
not jacked like.
And then there's the other campthat like they've never had it,
and they just like, literallyyou're just imitating people
throughout the gym.
And so, on the one hand, we doneed variety, we all agree with
(05:38):
that.
On the other hand, though, weneed consistency, with a certain
batch of exercises for a cycle,what we call like a mesocycle,
and a mesocycle is somewherebetween like four and eight
weeks, typically, right.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
It could be 12 weeks, but like something like that
right Somewhere in that zone.
100%, I like six to eight weekssomewhere around there.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Anyways.
So we want to hunker down, wewant to pick a batch of
exercises so that we canprogress further each week for
six to eight weeks or so withinthis framework.
And so and this is, this isprogramming, this- is the whole
reason, so let's say I wanted tohave bigger arms.
But then, like every time Iworked out, I did a couple of
sets of these, and then I getthe barbell and I'm doing that.
(06:18):
But I'm like, ooh, that guy,he's got big arms and he's doing
this thing.
Let me try that.
Let me do pigeon curls now, andit's like any one of those are
fine, but the problem is thatthe next time I go in the next
week to do the same arm workout,I'm like, okay, well, let me do
this now, let me do that.
And so I'm just kind of likeskipping across the surface of
all these exercises.
There's a lot of breadth butthere's no depth, and so
(06:38):
programming creates a containerwhere we can sit with these
exercises for all.
Right, you're going to do twodifferent bicep exercises for
three or four rounds each, andthen the next week you do the
exact same ones.
You're just going to add fivepounds, and the next week you're
going to do the exact samething.
You're going to keep the weightthe same, but you're just going
to try to push for one or twoextra reps.
Right.
Then you do the week four, thenyou just keep doing that for
(07:00):
six weeks for all muscle groups.
And that is programming, andthat is progressive overload.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
That is the backbone, is the progressive overload, is
the witness of adaptation towhat the stimulus is.
Yeah, and it's necessary, andso it's either increase in
weight and increase in volume.
And it's like thoseachievements in performance are
the key thing.
They motivate you, it gets youpsyched up and then you also
know that the programming iseffective.
You know you can tell theaccuracy of your work in terms
(07:27):
of its effect versus, likeyou're saying, when you're
bouncing around you have allthis breath.
You don't really know.
Are you performing better onthat curling exercise If you go
from a machine to a cable, to abarbell?
Speaker 1 (07:37):
You haven't done it in a month, so how do you know?
How do?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
you know Exactly.
They're all effective exercises, but if you don't repeat them
week after week, you don'treally know if you're getting
any better at them.
And sure, I'm sure there'ssomething happening.
But when you can document it,see the difference.
No you went from 10 pushups to15 pushups in a month.
That's factual progress, thatis undeniable.
There's no way around itTotally.
And it takes out the guesswork.
You're like oh, am I improving?
(07:59):
Well, it's like, as long as youare in some way improving your
numbers or improving your volume, improving your weight or your
volume, you know it's working.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
It doesn't have to be complicated.
I think everybody's just likewhat You're in headlights, like
I don't know, like literally itcould be pulling notes in your
phone open and just okay, let'sjust say that you're.
This applies to conditioning aswell, but for the most part
we're speaking kind of mainly onlike strength and muscle growth
, but this also works for likecardio and conditioning.
But let's just keep it in thecontext of like strength because
it's just easier to understand.
I would agree.
So let's just say, okay, I gotthree days to work out, that's
it.
Okay, cool, no problem.
(08:35):
Let's just say we're gonna gomonday, wednesday, friday great,
we're gonna do a push pull legsplit, the most basic structure
of all time.
Yeah, right, so there's acouple ways you could do it.
I think we can talk about likedifferent ways.
You, you can do three fullbodies, just fine.
You can do, you know, upper,lower, upper, upper, lower, full
.
Like there's a lot of differentways.
But let's just say, like we'regoing to do a push-pull leg, you
can literally just take a notesfolder out and you can just
(08:57):
write push day one and then justpick a chest exercise, a
shoulder press, five sets oftricep push downs.
(09:18):
Great, yeah, you got something.
And then every week you go inyou open up that note folder and
you, just right next to thebench press and right next to
the shoulder press, right nextto tries to push down, you just
put how many reps?
Yeah, you did.
Oh, last week, with 135 pounds,I did 12 reps.
I'm gonna try for 13 this week.
Okay, that's progression.
That's a program, the mostbasic, but it's a program, you
(09:41):
know, and you're gonna getbetter results doing that, as
basic as that is, versus everytime we come into the gym to do
a chest workout.
You're just skipping to thismachine, to that machine, to
these dumbbells, to this, andyou're just like there's no
measurement, there's no trackingyeah, I mean I think sometimes
I over complicate things myself.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I mean, I was just reading about brian shaw.
Who's this giant behemoth of aman?
He's, you know, one worldstrongest man.
He's like one of the biggesthumans ever.
He's like 350 pounds, not themountain guy no, he's akin to
the mountain, though he's likeanother version of the mountain
he's just like a giant human.
But I was looking at his workoutand it was literally like
standing overhead press dumbbellincline, chest press, close
(10:18):
grip bench press, cable, tricep,push down.
He literally just went verticalincline, flat, flat and then
and then a single joint exercise.
Literally three pushingexercises and one tricep
exercise.
That was his workout, likethree to five sets of each and
that really just speaks to like.
This is a professionalstrongman athlete like who's?
Speaker 1 (10:35):
who's a monster who's a monster.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
His whole career.
This is what he does, this ishis profession but that but that
.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
But that's the thing is because advanced people
master the basics 100%.
Because, like everyone's likeoh, shoulder press like basic.
It's like oh, shoulder presslike basic.
It's like you know, if you'reshoulder pressing like 45 pounds
, yeah, pretty basic, but ifyou're shoulder pressing 250
pounds, that's a real skill.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yeah, you're a skier, you're going to throw people
around.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Four sets of like eight at like 250 pounds.
Shoulder press like watch outfor that guy.
100%.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
That is a dangerous man.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
You know, I think about programming is kind of
like a roadmap of like.
If you're just wandering aroundwithout you might even have
like a compass.
But if you don't have like amap of like the, the direct,
like where you're supposed to begoing, you might travel
distance, you might put in somefoot equity or whatever Sweat
equity, yeah, and you also mightget to your destination.
But it might be way lessefficient, it might take you a
lot more wandering.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
You're hitchhiking, you're jumping on trains, you're
walking.
You're going the wrongdirection.
For a few miles You're goingover here, you backtrack, you
get lost, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Whereas I feel like a program is like this very
efficient roadmap that puts youon a trajectory that says you go
this place, then this place,then this place, and by the end
of your 48 weeks you've arrivedat a destination in the most
efficient way possible, which isbeing more fit.
I think also we were talkingabout pre-show.
It also holds you to like astandard, Because I you know,
same with Justin Like there's somany years where I just didn't
(11:57):
do a program.
I would get a kick-ass workoutin.
But man and I was saying thisto my client I was like as soon
as I started doing programming,the results came so much faster.
I couldn't believe it.
And it was even in myperformance, like you know.
I'd go from like doing 20push-ups so all of a sudden I
could do like 40 and I was like,holy shit.
This is amazing, because thatwas just part of my workout, was
like a burnout set of push-upsand every week, totally I would
(12:17):
test my maximum, especiallycalisthenics.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
I noticed like if you just do burnouts, like all
right, just you know one set ofchin-ups, one set of max
push-ups, it's like wow, yeah,like it's just happening like
I'm not even getting.
I'm not feeling the the need tostop until I'm 20 30 percent
more reps in than I was lastweek and like it's.
It's almost like when you dothat, yeah, the adaptation comes
(12:40):
so naturally.
Like bench press is such aneasy example, but it's like if
you're just sitting there underthe bench every single week and
you're pressing it, you just domore reps like you like.
Whether your intention is tolike all right, bro, I gotta
fucking really push hard thisweek.
Like that doesn't even have tobe your mindset, I can just like
.
I'm just gonna do my best.
Today you will find three, fourweeks in you're cranking four
(13:00):
or five extra reps out like andthat might not seem like a lot,
but that is probably a 50increase in output than week one
, 100%.
And now multiply that over fourdifferent eight-week cycles over
the year and five 10 yearslater.
It's like that's how you put on30 pounds of muscle.
You know the right way, 100%,and yeah.
(13:21):
But it's like that's just thething.
It's like you don't have toreally try, you just stick.
You just keep showing up in thesame thing over and over again.
Like you just stick.
You just keep showing up in thesame thing over and over again,
like you just get better.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
You just get better at it A hundred percent.
And I think it's like alsothings like look, we're all busy
as adults, whether you havefamilies or your job, and I
think like efficiency of time isa big complaint or thing that
people I don't have time toexercise and time is always
precious and time can be scarce.
But if you've got a roadmap andyou know exactly what to do,
and it's week three, four orfive of six, and now you kind of
(13:51):
know this workout well, you'regonna be able to go in and bang
it out as efficiently aspossible.
You're not gonna be wanderingaround, you're not gonna know
what equipment you have to grab,you're not gonna be like, oh,
what should I do now?
It's like, no, I'm gonna do mybench press, I'm gonna do my
flies, I'm gonna do my lateralraises and I'm gonna get out of
here whatever it is, and so Ithink it's one thing.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
It's like efficiency of time just goes through the
roof, especially and also mentalcapacity, not having to sit
there and think about it whenyou're tired at the gym and
stress everyone's already thereand it's busy.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
You're like right decision fatigue yeah, you know,
it's like you're done from work, exactly like you didn't get
that.
You're after you forgot yourafternoon snack.
You're extra hungry, you'realready bothered and now you're
like your brain is going off.
You know, it's reallyinteresting.
I was reading about decisionfatigue and it's actually like a
chemical process in the brainand so basically I forget.
I wish I could remember exactlywhat chemical.
But basically, when we makedecisions, there's like a
byproduct, a neurotransmittersense, that gets flooded in our
(14:38):
neurotransmitter gaps where allthe actions happening gets
flooded with thisneurotransmitter byproduct,
basically one of them frommaking all these decisions.
And so, like decision fatigue,is literally our inability for
our synapses to fire and catchthe decision making
neurotransmitters because it'sbogged down with all like the
secondary products that's kindof like the same idea as like
(15:00):
atp or glycogen in your muscles,like it's just, we have a
certain level of energy in ourbrain and like, once that shit's
gone, it's it's, but it's likeliterally not even like the
glucose.
It's like because of decisionmaking and they say it's like
sleeping is where it clears out.
So if you don't get a lot ofsleep it doesn't fully clear out
.
And then caffeine is the thingthat like basically blocks that.
(15:20):
It's the same thing that kindof makes you tired?
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Yeah, I know you're talking about it.
I read this I read a similararticle as well, where it's like
as soon as you wake up, yourbody starts producing this
chemical and kind of once youhit critical mass, yeah, then
you get tired.
Yes, exactly, and so it's then.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
So decisions increase that same chemical and block it
, and so the whole thing withthe caffeine crash is the
caffeine wears away, it allfloods in or you're not getting
enough sleep to clear it out, soyou still have like leftover in
your brain and you wake up andyou already have trouble making
decisions and and you're alreadytired because you haven't
cleared out.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
So I think it's just like, in a certain sense,
preserving our mental capacityand our efficiency, totally, you
know you sit there for 20minutes and you just write down
a super like whatever days youcan allocate for exercising,
keep you know you can probablyget chat gpt.
Yeah, honestly, I've tried,honestly it's.
It's.
A lot of people have given mesome I mean, I think, for a
(16:11):
basic workout basic stuff.
I don't think it's quite thereyet.
Like, trust me, if it was Iwould recommend it.
But like I've been toying withit because so many of our
clients like travel for summerand they want, and so I'm like,
all right, well, let me just seeif I go and like it's fine but
then like it'll just be, they'lljust throw some weird shit in
there, or it'll be reallyredundant like yeah like there
was one where it said it wasfive workouts.
(16:32):
I was trying to get going and itgave me marching glute bridges
and every single one of them,and I'm like, can we do
something different?
He's like, oh, thanks forcatching that.
Uh, you're right, that isredundant.
Here's what we're gonna doinstead.
I'm like, okay, it's just notquite.
I mean, it could be there forsome people like.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
I think certainly there's also a thousand programs
for free.
I mean they're everywhere youjust search out like basic
weightlifting program basic bodyI mean they're out there yeah
so, so there's a lot of them.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
But like taking 20 minutes or 30 minutes every six
weeks to like just, or even likeonce a month, if you can even
think about that way, like thenext four weeks of my life
here's, I'm gonna do the gym andthen just get in there and do
your best and then just at theend of the month, sit down for
30 more minutes and just writeanother one out for you.
And the thing about it, too, isthat what I know is we're right
behind this.
(17:15):
The camera right in front of usis my.
We're in my office slash littlehome gym, which is just our
spare bedroom, but like I have asquat rack of a bench press, I
have dumbbells, a pulley system,super basic shit, but it's
enough oh yeah and when I'm,when I write my programs out, as
I'm finishing up, like weekfive or week six, I'm already
starting to think of the nextone, like, okay, like you know,
(17:38):
here's what I liked about thislast four weeks, here's what I
didn't like about it.
You know, and I'm, and like, asI'm working out, I'm like
pulling my, my computer and I'mlike kind of starting to like
start to take notes and Inoticed this pattern where,
around the same week, five weekanticipate the next one.
I'm like I'm sick of this now.
Like I've been doing this forsix weeks already, like I'm kind
of getting bored with theseexercises.
(18:00):
Yeah, and I'm already like, oh,I haven't done that in a while.
Like as, because when you'reworking out, you're thinking
more creatively, your, yourendorphins are running, you're
in the flow.
I'm like, oh, yeah, I could dothat.
I haven't done this.
Oh, I should try that.
And I start jotting things downand it's like brain dump, just
not not like creating a program,but just brain dumping
exercises that I want to do,things you could choose yeah and
then I have, like this list ofexercises that I haven't done in
(18:21):
a few months, or that I youknow that I just haven't done in
a long time, or I just, or, Ijust really like it, just feel,
even if I've already done it, itjust feels good and I still
feel like I'm getting a goodworkout exactly.
Yeah, you feel the goods from itand so then I'll just brain
dump this whole list ofexercises and then you know at
the end of that six weeks, justlike, just organize them and put
them in the next cycle.
And then boom, and so you findthat you get yourself into this
(18:42):
rhythm.
Just got to get that first oneout of you, even if it's the
most basic thing you've everwritten, like we were talking
about, like incline press,shoulder press and tricep
pushdowns.
But that's a start, becausethen you do that for six weeks
and then you're going to be like, oh okay, well, maybe instead
of tricep pushdowns, I saw thisone guy doing them overhead
where he was pulling them over.
That looks pretty cool too,yeah, and you start to build
this autonomy, to start to startto build this like repertoire
(19:05):
of exercises that you becomefamiliar with, and you know it's
the catalyst to just creatingmore dynamic programming for
yourself as you go and it's alsoI think you know it's it can
give you something to attack too.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
If you if the more intentional, like if you start
getting this a little deeper,you can start to attack things
and challenge weaknesses,because, let's say, you have a
rotator cuff or a shoulderinjury in the past and you
should probably include sometype of rehabilitative exercise,
some external rotation.
It can be one set like snatcheslike yeah, one arm, single
dumbbell squat snatches, singlebarbell snatches, exactly.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
We used to do that shit.
We used to do that shit, but itused to do that shit.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
But it's very easy to overlook those things without a
program.
But if you know, like I know Ineed to do it for my shoulder
and I just like kind of havebeen like not putting it in my
program.
But I know, if I put it in myprogram I'll do it.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
And this next it.
I was also noticing like mylower legs, I think, are weak,
and I'm I went through thisphase once, but I'm back at kind
of looking at the shadows andI'm like, okay, I need to like
put some training in my lowerlegs.
And it's very easy to kind ofnot include those things because
they just there's a millionthings that we could do with our
body.
I could do training for splitsor sprinting, whatever, and so I
think it's also a way to kindof one thing I took away from
(20:18):
CrossFit right, it's like laserin on your weakest link and then
just dominate it and then findyour next weakest link and then
just dominate it.
And in that capacity.
I think that's how theseCrossFitters get so incredibly
fit is that they leave no stoneunturned.
But they take these dedicatedperiods to master a movement or
an exercise or an area ofstrength, and I think that
programming kind of gives youthat.
It's like back to that compassof like, okay, if I'm aware that
(20:40):
my lower legs are not where Iwant them to be, I can just hold
my, I put it in the program andthen look the other way, versus
if I just kind of float aroundor you know.
It's just like a way to createstructure and what we might need
, versus easy to kind of placateourselves.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Totally and like it it's.
It's so true, it's like a formof accountability, because it's
like we can all claim ignoranceif we don't directly acknowledge
something.
Yeah, we're using this in thecontext of fitness, but it
doesn't.
It's not much of a stretch ofthe imagination to apply it to
pretty much every aspect of ourlives.
Yeah, where, if it's like youknow, I need to, I really want
(21:13):
to improve this, this thing,when we write it down and then
we schedule it and we're facedwith it.
To not do it now isdeliberately choosing to not
improve.
But if you never write it down,you don't really acknowledge.
You can still kind of like thisplausible deniability we can be
like yeah, well, you know, likeI just haven't thought about it
yet, but yeah, I mean, like youknow, obviously you know I'm my
(21:34):
, I'm.
My arms are 10 feet long.
Putting mass on them has alwaysbeen a challenge for me.
But uh, I got in this reallyweird rut where I was like just
throwing three sets at the endof a workout for arms, you know.
But classic and for a lot ofthe guys that would be plenty
like if you did a back workoutand you just kind of finish out
with like three sets of curlsyeah, like the shot workout yeah
yeah, like they'd be fine forfor most people, but for me, I'm
(21:56):
like.
Even there was a time I took apicture and she was just like
wow, babe, your, your arms lookso skinny and like.
You know, if you ever want tojust like, destroy a man's world
.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Deflate this like like got him from under the
balls.
You mean lean right sharp, noshredded yeah thin like skinny.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
I was just like that's it.
So then, like I bumped it up tolike six sets per exercise and
then I put arms in front of allof the stuff yeah, while you're
fresh, yeah right.
So if pro tip, if you want toum, if you want to improve a
muscle group, train it firstwhile you're fresh, don't wait
to the end of your workout.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
You know like it's kind of do the big stuff first,
but so anyway.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
So yeah so that's what I did.
I put, I put like five or sixsets of biceps and triceps at
the front of on my push and pullworkouts for eight weeks or so
and uh, then tanya was like wow,babe, your arms look bigger.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
I can see a difference in your arms, for
sure.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
100 and I was like oh , okay because I look in the
mirror.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I'm like I look the same to me but like she's, you
know it's nice to get to getthat external validation.
You look less skinny, yeah, youlook.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah, your stomach doesn't look skinny anymore.
Oh, it was my stomach you weretalking about.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
What does it look like now?
Oh shit, no, I got a clientwho's also super tall, I mean,
he's like 6'6", I think, andwe're working out six days a
week, so working out a lot, butwe were doing doing push-pull
legs, push-pull legs.
He was looking great, but hisarms needed a little more juice.
So I gave him a dedicated armday, like a full-hour arm blast,
(23:28):
no few sets, and he was likethat did it Because we were
working out arms, but similar,increasing his volume, but
always within a workout.
So I kind of flipped the scriptand gave him a pure arm day and
like, not even like singlejoint, with like some glute
bridges, just like pure arms andshoulders, all single joint,
and his arms just blew up fromit and he was like that he's
(23:49):
like I'm seeing my arms getbigger.
Finally, he's like they'venever grown, yeah, and so it's
just funny the volume, yeah,it's just, it's like the classic
case if, like here, here's likejust fundamental principles,
right?
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Like people who say I've died and I don't lose
weight, you just haven't died itenough, you just haven't
brought your calories to thepoint to where you're in a
spectrum.
Oh, I'm a hard gainer, nomatter what, trust me, there is
a point where you will eatenough calories, where you will
put on size.
And if you haven't put on sizeyet, sorry dude, you just
(24:21):
haven't eaten enough caloriesyet, and that might be 4,500 a
day, dude yes, you know and likeespecially if you're like a
young guy in your 20s, like itcould very well be 4,000.
Yeah, 5,000 calories beforeyou're like, oh, I'm finally
putting on weight.
But trust me from a guy who'sdone this, I was at 4,800
calories a day for six months.
That's intense Gross.
(24:41):
I wanted to vomit every meal,but like that's what it took
when I was 20 years old you know, and that's what it took for
him.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Yeah, I think he took like 47,000, 5,000.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
He was like I have to order two dinners, like if he
goes like, if you're trainingregularly like this, like your
client, but like there's amuscle that's just lagging,
which we all have, like I can dolike four sets of squats and
have huge ass that I can't evenbutt in my pants, but I'll do 10
, 15 sets of bicep curls andI'll nothing changes.
I'm just like but.
(25:16):
But you know, there comes apoint with volume that like
eventually it's going to reachthat critical mass point where
it's like you're getting, you'reeating protein and you're
eating a calorie surplus or atleast at maintenance, and you're
trained like that you're gonnayou're gonna you're gonna see
some results.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
That's such a good example, because if you just
kind of kept going withoutchanging your program or giving
the focus to it, you would havemight have just continued down
the road you know the same withlike other client, but paying
attention to what you need,changing your program,
committing to those changes andthen tracking progress hop on a
scale every morning, like if youdo, if your goal is to put on
size or even lose inches.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Like just do before every six to eight week cycle.
Just do a belly buttoncircumference around your waist,
upper arm, upper thigh, yeahmaybe shoulders and chest, but
like, just do that once everyeight weeks and then see, did
that six-week cycle do anythingfor?
Me right yeah no, I guess itdidn't all right.
So let's, let's.
Let's either do somethingdifferent, train harder, adjust
(26:09):
diet, which is usually always,almost always the case, right?
Speaker 2 (26:12):
but it's still.
That's like if your arm grows aquarter of an inch in two
months.
That's huge that's a lot,that's a lot or you know it's
that measurable and now you cankind of see how it all ties
together.
It's like you have yourtraining programs.
You can use that for your bodycomposition goal posts you know,
take selfies and pictures andmeasurements.
And you know, especially withthe phone, like we all got
notepads now, like I rememberwatching guys with their little
(26:33):
book writing every workout downby hand, right, every set, every
rep, every weight, because theydidn't have smartphones with no
pads.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
So imagine like this you know, like the modern day,
conveniences are all around us,plus there's like a gazillion
apps that just do it for you.
Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
So it's like we have less and less excuses.
You know we have more and moretime, probably in a lot of ways
than totally, yeah, less stress.
So well.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Episode 61 on programming I.
I hope that helped get you guysmotivated to actually just
start writing your shit down andtracking your numbers.
What gets measured gets managedand what gets managed gets
improved.
But if we don't measureanything, we can't expect to
improve it.
Measurement comes in the formof writing how much weight
you're lifting in certainexercises, how many reps you're
(27:16):
able to do at that weight, howmany calories you're consuming,
how many grams of protein you'relifting in certain exercises,
how many reps you're able to doat that weight, how many
calories you're consuming, howmany grams of protein you're
eating, and then measuring theoutputs of that of like your
morning weigh-in on the scale,your measurements around your
legs.
And if you're not doing atleast a few of those basics,
you're unfortunately probablygoing to be like the people we
talked about in the beginning ofthe episode that can spend
years training and just and justnot really see any outcome.
(27:37):
You're still wandering aroundthe forest.
Yeah, you're just like yeah,you're moving, but you're
zigzagging.
You're not really gettinganywhere.
You know that same amount ofeffort can be channeled and
directed and get really greatresults, and so I highly
encourage everyone to just, atthe very least, get a notes
folder.
Go on their phone and writesome basics and you'll really
see humans have a really hardtime seeing numbers and not
(27:59):
wanting to improve them.
If you're having money issues,look at your bank account every
single day yeah, I'll get youlook at it every single day, see
where every one of thoseexpenses goes.
I guarantee you you'll seeimprovement.
Okay, team, we'll catch y'allnext week for episode 62.
Peace out.
What is programming in the context of nutrition?
Because you can programnutrition in the context of your
exercise, definitely canprogram for exercise.
What gets measured gets managed, and what gets managed gets
improved.
But if we don't measureanything, we can't expect to
improve it.
Welcome to episode 61 in thegrand scheme of fitness.
(00:29):
My name is Justin Scallard andI'm Ethan Wolfe, and we're your
hosts, folks, the hosts with themost is.
In case you don't know who weare maybe you're just tuning in
We've been trainers,nutritionists, for over 20 years
.
We've worked with thousands ofpeople I'm not being hyperbolic.
We've actually worked withthousands of people.
We've owned gyms together.
At this point, ethan has astudio in West Hollywood.
(00:50):
I have a business online, butwe're still very much involved
and working full-time as fitnessprofessionals and we've come
together with this podcast tojust really have some fun and
hang out with each other andtalk shop about fitness and
nutrition and try to give youguys like the real street level
advice that you probably haveheard.
But sometimes the way we hearthings, I think it matters a lot
(01:12):
.
Absolutely, what we're going todo is just take all of our
information and bring it to youguys, but today we're going to
be talking about programmingPrograms.
So what is programming in thecontext of nutrition?
Because you can programnutrition in the context of your
exercise, definitely canprogram for exercise.
And most folks justunfortunately don't do this and
(01:32):
they're really missing out on somuch potential.
Absolutely, so we'll break itdown.
You're talking about yourclient, who you wrote a really
nice program for.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, so yeah, this is kind of what sparked this.
Yeah, basically he wanted toramp up his fitness.
He was getting some results andhe was kind of getting buying
in a little bit more and so hetrained with me twice a week and
he wanted to do four times aweek because I think that's a
nice sweet spot, especially foryeah, of course, resistance
trades.
It's great you get some nice acouple options for some good
splits and that kind of thing.
(02:01):
So, but it is a little morenuanced, meaning that, like, he
trains with me twice, so thoseother two workouts are
particular or specific in termsof he's got to do them on his
own and they're, they'rebalanced, they are like they're,
they're going to be things thathe will do, that we will not do
whatsoever, because yeah
Speaker 1 (02:16):
he did, of the way the split or the organization of
the exercises are because whenyou're doing four days a week
and now it's like you have a legday and a push day and a pull
day and then be like a full bodyday, and so he's on his own
Upper body lower body or push,pull, push, pull.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
There's always ways to break it down, but
fundamentally one of those wewon't participate with all.
So we do like the hard thingsfor him.
So we do like a push day and aleg day and then he gets to do
like a pull day and like kind oflike a single joint pump day.
Yeah, but fundamentally wedon't do any pulling because
it's a little safer, it's alittle easier to access, that
you're on your own.
But if he doesn't do thatworkout at all or he doesn't do
(02:51):
it as prescribed, then he's kindof missing this whole chunk of
his body, this whole balance tothe no.
When I look at the mirror man,it's my back and the thing was
is that he was not that hewasn't doing a back day, he was
showing up but he was kind ofusing the workout as like a
general guide to what he shoulddo.
So he was kind of doingdifferent things every time
Classic, and just wasn'tfollowing this very specific
(03:14):
program.
Not that it was like fancy withbells and whistles, but this
was a very specific program thatI wrote for a very specific
reason.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
And I asked him.
I was like, well, did you dothe four sets of weighted
chin-ups that I have as thefirst like blowout exercise for
you to do?
And he's like, no, I haven'tdone them yet at all.
I'm like it's been like sixweeks since.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I've been doing this Program's over dude, like I'm
already about to write a newsix-week cycle.
You haven't done it once.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah, and so it just made me laugh to explain to him
the benefits and yeah thechallenge and the the ask and
reminded him that it's there fora reason.
I'm not happy.
You're using it as a guidebetter than nothing, but you're
missing out on so many benefits.
You know like I I.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
There are so many years that I did not program and
it would just be like a generalpush day or a general pull day
or a general leg day and I wouldgo in there and I'll be like
all right, well, I'm gonna trythis this time and like sure
that is better than nothing.
Yeah, you get a good workout.
You get a workout like if, aslong as there's some kind of
structure, like but I was also atrainer so I had a little bit
more knowledge than the averageperson and so like.
(04:14):
But you see it all the time.
I mean it's like it's endemicin the fitness space, where it's
like people just go into gymsand they're just like I don't
know.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yesterday I did this, so I guess today I'll do this I
mean, in case you can't see,justin's like imitating a curl
and like imitating like whatwould be like a tricep push down
and it's really funny like arecent newer client would who
came from working out but wantedto step it up.
Same thing.
I'm like so what?
Literally that exact thing.
I'm like what do you do on yourown?
He's like oh, I kind of like dothese imitating curls?
(04:43):
And like maybe something likethese?
Yeah, like no names.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
I just saw some guy do it.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, so I did it, you know, I think that like it's
like you go in and you'rebouncing around.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Okay, I think here's the issue.
Here's an in CrossFit actuallytaught me this is like.
Variation is important we allagree, but I think sometimes
people misinterpret that asrandom.
Yeah, and variation does notmean random.
Variation means you knowthere's going to come a point
where your body is adapted andacclimated to a certain routine
and you're not going to get thesame stimulus anymore, so you're
(05:16):
not going to get any effect.
So there's two camps.
I think there's like people whojust do the exact same work.
They some trainer 10 years agoprinted out a four-week plan for
them and they've literally justdone that for 10 years fast on
mondays for a decade and they'relike I don't understand why I'm
not jacked like.
And then there's the other campthat like they've never had it,
and they just like, literallyyou're just imitating people
throughout the gym.
And so, on the one hand, we doneed variety, we all agree with
(05:38):
that.
On the other hand, though, weneed consistency, with a certain
batch of exercises for a cycle,what we call like a mesocycle,
and a mesocycle is somewherebetween like four and eight
weeks, typically, right.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
It could be 12 weeks, but like something like that
right Somewhere in that zone.
100%, I like six to eight weekssomewhere around there.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Anyways.
So we want to hunker down, wewant to pick a batch of
exercises so that we canprogress further each week for
six to eight weeks or so withinthis framework.
And so and this is, this isprogramming, this- is the whole
reason, so let's say I wanted tohave bigger arms.
But then, like every time Iworked out, I did a couple of
sets of these, and then I getthe barbell and I'm doing that.
(06:18):
But I'm like, ooh, that guy,he's got big arms and he's doing
this thing.
Let me try that.
Let me do pigeon curls now, andit's like any one of those are
fine, but the problem is thatthe next time I go in the next
week to do the same arm workout,I'm like, okay, well, let me do
this now, let me do that.
And so I'm just kind of likeskipping across the surface of
all these exercises.
There's a lot of breadth butthere's no depth, and so
(06:38):
programming creates a containerwhere we can sit with these
exercises for all.
Right, you're going to do twodifferent bicep exercises for
three or four rounds each, andthen the next week you do the
exact same ones.
You're just going to add fivepounds, and the next week you're
going to do the exact samething.
You're going to keep the weightthe same, but you're just going
to try to push for one or twoextra reps.
Right.
Then you do the week four, thenyou just keep doing that for
(07:00):
six weeks for all muscle groups.
And that is programming, andthat is progressive overload.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
That is the backbone, is the progressive overload, is
the witness of adaptation towhat the stimulus is.
Yeah, and it's necessary, andso it's either increase in
weight and increase in volume.
And it's like thoseachievements in performance are
the key thing.
They motivate you, it gets youpsyched up and then you also
know that the programming iseffective.
You know you can tell theaccuracy of your work in terms
(07:27):
of its effect versus, likeyou're saying, when you're
bouncing around you have allthis breath.
You don't really know.
Are you performing better onthat curling exercise If you go
from a machine to a cable, to abarbell?
Speaker 1 (07:37):
You haven't done it in a month, so how do you know?
How do?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
you know Exactly.
They're all effective exercises, but if you don't repeat them
week after week, you don'treally know if you're getting
any better at them.
And sure, I'm sure there'ssomething happening.
But when you can document it,see the difference.
No you went from 10 pushups to15 pushups in a month.
That's factual progress, thatis undeniable.
There's no way around itTotally.
And it takes out the guesswork.
You're like oh, am I improving?
(07:59):
Well, it's like, as long as youare in some way improving your
numbers or improving your volume, improving your weight or your
volume, you know it's working.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
It doesn't have to be complicated.
I think everybody's just likewhat You're in headlights, like
I don't know, like literally itcould be pulling notes in your
phone open and just okay, let'sjust say that you're.
This applies to conditioning aswell, but for the most part
we're speaking kind of mainly onlike strength and muscle growth
, but this also works for likecardio and conditioning.
But let's just keep it in thecontext of like strength because
it's just easier to understand.
I would agree.
So let's just say, okay, I gotthree days to work out, that's
it.
Okay, cool, no problem.
(08:35):
Let's just say we're gonna gomonday, wednesday, friday great,
we're gonna do a push pull legsplit, the most basic structure
of all time.
Yeah, right, so there's acouple ways you could do it.
I think we can talk about likedifferent ways.
You, you can do three fullbodies, just fine.
You can do, you know, upper,lower, upper, upper, lower, full
.
Like there's a lot of differentways.
But let's just say, like we'regoing to do a push-pull leg, you
can literally just take a notesfolder out and you can just
(08:57):
write push day one and then justpick a chest exercise, a
shoulder press, five sets oftricep push downs.
(09:18):
Great, yeah, you got something.
And then every week you go inyou open up that note folder and
you, just right next to thebench press and right next to
the shoulder press, right nextto tries to push down, you just
put how many reps?
Yeah, you did.
Oh, last week, with 135 pounds,I did 12 reps.
I'm gonna try for 13 this week.
Okay, that's progression.
That's a program, the mostbasic, but it's a program, you
(09:41):
know, and you're gonna getbetter results doing that, as
basic as that is, versus everytime we come into the gym to do
a chest workout.
You're just skipping to thismachine, to that machine, to
these dumbbells, to this, andyou're just like there's no
measurement, there's no trackingyeah, I mean I think sometimes
I over complicate things myself.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I mean, I was just reading about brian shaw.
Who's this giant behemoth of aman?
He's, you know, one worldstrongest man.
He's like one of the biggesthumans ever.
He's like 350 pounds, not themountain guy no, he's akin to
the mountain, though he's likeanother version of the mountain
he's just like a giant human.
But I was looking at his workoutand it was literally like
standing overhead press dumbbellincline, chest press, close
(10:18):
grip bench press, cable, tricep,push down.
He literally just went verticalincline, flat, flat and then
and then a single joint exercise.
Literally three pushingexercises and one tricep
exercise.
That was his workout, likethree to five sets of each and
that really just speaks to like.
This is a professionalstrongman athlete like who's?
Speaker 1 (10:35):
who's a monster who's a monster.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
His whole career.
This is what he does, this ishis profession but that but that
.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
But that's the thing is because advanced people
master the basics 100%.
Because, like everyone's likeoh, shoulder press like basic.
It's like oh, shoulder presslike basic.
It's like you know, if you'reshoulder pressing like 45 pounds
, yeah, pretty basic, but ifyou're shoulder pressing 250
pounds, that's a real skill.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yeah, you're a skier, you're going to throw people
around.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Four sets of like eight at like 250 pounds.
Shoulder press like watch outfor that guy.
100%.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
That is a dangerous man.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
You know, I think about programming is kind of
like a roadmap of like.
If you're just wandering aroundwithout you might even have
like a compass.
But if you don't have like amap of like the, the direct,
like where you're supposed to begoing, you might travel
distance, you might put in somefoot equity or whatever Sweat
equity, yeah, and you also mightget to your destination.
But it might be way lessefficient, it might take you a
lot more wandering.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
You're hitchhiking, you're jumping on trains, you're
walking.
You're going the wrongdirection.
For a few miles You're goingover here, you backtrack, you
get lost, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Whereas I feel like a program is like this very
efficient roadmap that puts youon a trajectory that says you go
this place, then this place,then this place, and by the end
of your 48 weeks you've arrivedat a destination in the most
efficient way possible, which isbeing more fit.
I think also we were talkingabout pre-show.
It also holds you to like astandard, Because I you know,
same with Justin Like there's somany years where I just didn't
(11:57):
do a program.
I would get a kick-ass workoutin.
But man and I was saying thisto my client I was like as soon
as I started doing programming,the results came so much faster.
I couldn't believe it.
And it was even in myperformance, like you know.
I'd go from like doing 20push-ups so all of a sudden I
could do like 40 and I was like,holy shit.
This is amazing, because thatwas just part of my workout, was
like a burnout set of push-upsand every week, totally I would
(12:17):
test my maximum, especiallycalisthenics.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
I noticed like if you just do burnouts, like all
right, just you know one set ofchin-ups, one set of max
push-ups, it's like wow, yeah,like it's just happening like
I'm not even getting.
I'm not feeling the the need tostop until I'm 20 30 percent
more reps in than I was lastweek and like it's.
It's almost like when you dothat, yeah, the adaptation comes
(12:40):
so naturally.
Like bench press is such aneasy example, but it's like if
you're just sitting there underthe bench every single week and
you're pressing it, you just domore reps like you like.
Whether your intention is tolike all right, bro, I gotta
fucking really push hard thisweek.
Like that doesn't even have tobe your mindset, I can just like
.
I'm just gonna do my best.
Today you will find three, fourweeks in you're cranking four
(13:00):
or five extra reps out like andthat might not seem like a lot,
but that is probably a 50increase in output than week one
, 100%.
And now multiply that over fourdifferent eight-week cycles over
the year and five 10 yearslater.
It's like that's how you put on30 pounds of muscle.
You know the right way, 100%,and yeah.
(13:21):
But it's like that's just thething.
It's like you don't have toreally try, you just stick.
You just keep showing up in thesame thing over and over again.
Like you just stick.
You just keep showing up in thesame thing over and over again,
like you just get better.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
You just get better at it A hundred percent.
And I think it's like alsothings like look, we're all busy
as adults, whether you havefamilies or your job, and I
think like efficiency of time isa big complaint or thing that
people I don't have time toexercise and time is always
precious and time can be scarce.
But if you've got a roadmap andyou know exactly what to do,
and it's week three, four orfive of six, and now you kind of
(13:51):
know this workout well, you'regonna be able to go in and bang
it out as efficiently aspossible.
You're not gonna be wanderingaround, you're not gonna know
what equipment you have to grab,you're not gonna be like, oh,
what should I do now?
It's like, no, I'm gonna do mybench press, I'm gonna do my
flies, I'm gonna do my lateralraises and I'm gonna get out of
here whatever it is, and so Ithink it's one thing.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
It's like efficiency of time just goes through the
roof, especially and also mentalcapacity, not having to sit
there and think about it whenyou're tired at the gym and
stress everyone's already thereand it's busy.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
You're like right decision fatigue yeah, you know,
it's like you're done from work, exactly like you didn't get
that.
You're after you forgot yourafternoon snack.
You're extra hungry, you'realready bothered and now you're
like your brain is going off.
You know, it's reallyinteresting.
I was reading about decisionfatigue and it's actually like a
chemical process in the brainand so basically I forget.
I wish I could remember exactlywhat chemical.
But basically, when we makedecisions, there's like a
byproduct, a neurotransmittersense, that gets flooded in our
(14:38):
neurotransmitter gaps where allthe actions happening gets
flooded with thisneurotransmitter byproduct,
basically one of them frommaking all these decisions.
And so, like decision fatigue,is literally our inability for
our synapses to fire and catchthe decision making
neurotransmitters because it'sbogged down with all like the
secondary products that's kindof like the same idea as like
(15:00):
atp or glycogen in your muscles,like it's just, we have a
certain level of energy in ourbrain and like, once that shit's
gone, it's it's, but it's likeliterally not even like the
glucose.
It's like because of decisionmaking and they say it's like
sleeping is where it clears out.
So if you don't get a lot ofsleep it doesn't fully clear out
.
And then caffeine is the thingthat like basically blocks that.
(15:20):
It's the same thing that kindof makes you tired?
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Yeah, I know you're talking about it.
I read this I read a similararticle as well, where it's like
as soon as you wake up, yourbody starts producing this
chemical and kind of once youhit critical mass, yeah, then
you get tired.
Yes, exactly, and so it's then.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
So decisions increase that same chemical and block it
, and so the whole thing withthe caffeine crash is the
caffeine wears away, it allfloods in or you're not getting
enough sleep to clear it out, soyou still have like leftover in
your brain and you wake up andyou already have trouble making
decisions and and you're alreadytired because you haven't
cleared out.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
So I think it's just like, in a certain sense,
preserving our mental capacityand our efficiency, totally, you
know you sit there for 20minutes and you just write down
a super like whatever days youcan allocate for exercising,
keep you know you can probablyget chat gpt.
Yeah, honestly, I've tried,honestly it's.
It's.
A lot of people have given mesome I mean, I think, for a
(16:11):
basic workout basic stuff.
I don't think it's quite thereyet.
Like, trust me, if it was Iwould recommend it.
But like I've been toying withit because so many of our
clients like travel for summerand they want, and so I'm like,
all right, well, let me just seeif I go and like it's fine but
then like it'll just be, they'lljust throw some weird shit in
there, or it'll be reallyredundant like yeah like there
was one where it said it wasfive workouts.
(16:32):
I was trying to get going and itgave me marching glute bridges
and every single one of them,and I'm like, can we do
something different?
He's like, oh, thanks forcatching that.
Uh, you're right, that isredundant.
Here's what we're gonna doinstead.
I'm like, okay, it's just notquite.
I mean, it could be there forsome people like.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
I think certainly there's also a thousand programs
for free.
I mean they're everywhere youjust search out like basic
weightlifting program basic bodyI mean they're out there yeah
so, so there's a lot of them.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
But like taking 20 minutes or 30 minutes every six
weeks to like just, or even likeonce a month, if you can even
think about that way, like thenext four weeks of my life
here's, I'm gonna do the gym andthen just get in there and do
your best and then just at theend of the month, sit down for
30 more minutes and just writeanother one out for you.
And the thing about it, too, isthat what I know is we're right
behind this.
(17:15):
The camera right in front of usis my.
We're in my office slash littlehome gym, which is just our
spare bedroom, but like I have asquat rack of a bench press, I
have dumbbells, a pulley system,super basic shit, but it's
enough oh yeah and when I'm,when I write my programs out, as
I'm finishing up, like weekfive or week six, I'm already
starting to think of the nextone, like, okay, like you know,
(17:38):
here's what I liked about thislast four weeks, here's what I
didn't like about it.
You know, and I'm, and like, asI'm working out, I'm like
pulling my, my computer and I'mlike kind of starting to like
start to take notes and Inoticed this pattern where,
around the same week, five weekanticipate the next one.
I'm like I'm sick of this now.
Like I've been doing this forsix weeks already, like I'm kind
of getting bored with theseexercises.
(18:00):
Yeah, and I'm already like, oh,I haven't done that in a while.
Like as, because when you'reworking out, you're thinking
more creatively, your, yourendorphins are running, you're
in the flow.
I'm like, oh, yeah, I could dothat.
I haven't done this.
Oh, I should try that.
And I start jotting things downand it's like brain dump, just
not not like creating a program,but just brain dumping
exercises that I want to do,things you could choose yeah and
then I have, like this list ofexercises that I haven't done in
(18:21):
a few months, or that I youknow that I just haven't done in
a long time, or I just, or, Ijust really like it, just feel,
even if I've already done it, itjust feels good and I still
feel like I'm getting a goodworkout exactly.
Yeah, you feel the goods from itand so then I'll just brain
dump this whole list ofexercises and then you know at
the end of that six weeks, justlike, just organize them and put
them in the next cycle.
And then boom, and so you findthat you get yourself into this
(18:42):
rhythm.
Just got to get that first oneout of you, even if it's the
most basic thing you've everwritten, like we were talking
about, like incline press,shoulder press and tricep
pushdowns.
But that's a start, becausethen you do that for six weeks
and then you're going to be like, oh okay, well, maybe instead
of tricep pushdowns, I saw thisone guy doing them overhead
where he was pulling them over.
That looks pretty cool too,yeah, and you start to build
this autonomy, to start to startto build this like repertoire
(19:05):
of exercises that you becomefamiliar with, and you know it's
the catalyst to just creatingmore dynamic programming for
yourself as you go and it's alsoI think you know it's it can
give you something to attack too.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
If you if the more intentional, like if you start
getting this a little deeper,you can start to attack things
and challenge weaknesses,because, let's say, you have a
rotator cuff or a shoulderinjury in the past and you
should probably include sometype of rehabilitative exercise,
some external rotation.
It can be one set like snatcheslike yeah, one arm, single
dumbbell squat snatches, singlebarbell snatches, exactly.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
We used to do that shit.
We used to do that shit, but itused to do that shit.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
But it's very easy to overlook those things without a
program.
But if you know, like I know Ineed to do it for my shoulder
and I just like kind of havebeen like not putting it in my
program.
But I know, if I put it in myprogram I'll do it.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
And this next it.
I was also noticing like mylower legs, I think, are weak,
and I'm I went through thisphase once, but I'm back at kind
of looking at the shadows andI'm like, okay, I need to like
put some training in my lowerlegs.
And it's very easy to kind ofnot include those things because
they just there's a millionthings that we could do with our
body.
I could do training for splitsor sprinting, whatever, and so I
think it's also a way to kindof one thing I took away from
(20:18):
CrossFit right, it's like laserin on your weakest link and then
just dominate it and then findyour next weakest link and then
just dominate it.
And in that capacity.
I think that's how theseCrossFitters get so incredibly
fit is that they leave no stoneunturned.
But they take these dedicatedperiods to master a movement or
an exercise or an area ofstrength, and I think that
programming kind of gives youthat.
It's like back to that compassof like, okay, if I'm aware that
(20:40):
my lower legs are not where Iwant them to be, I can just hold
my, I put it in the program andthen look the other way, versus
if I just kind of float aroundor you know.
It's just like a way to createstructure and what we might need
, versus easy to kind of placateourselves.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Totally and like it it's.
It's so true, it's like a formof accountability, because it's
like we can all claim ignoranceif we don't directly acknowledge
something.
Yeah, we're using this in thecontext of fitness, but it
doesn't.
It's not much of a stretch ofthe imagination to apply it to
pretty much every aspect of ourlives.
Yeah, where, if it's like youknow, I need to, I really want
(21:13):
to improve this, this thing,when we write it down and then
we schedule it and we're facedwith it.
To not do it now isdeliberately choosing to not
improve.
But if you never write it down,you don't really acknowledge.
You can still kind of like thisplausible deniability we can be
like yeah, well, you know, likeI just haven't thought about it
yet, but yeah, I mean, like youknow, obviously you know I'm my
(21:34):
, I'm.
My arms are 10 feet long.
Putting mass on them has alwaysbeen a challenge for me.
But uh, I got in this reallyweird rut where I was like just
throwing three sets at the endof a workout for arms, you know.
But classic and for a lot ofthe guys that would be plenty
like if you did a back workoutand you just kind of finish out
with like three sets of curlsyeah, like the shot workout yeah
yeah, like they'd be fine forfor most people, but for me, I'm
(21:56):
like.
Even there was a time I took apicture and she was just like
wow, babe, your, your arms lookso skinny and like.
You know, if you ever want tojust like, destroy a man's world
.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Deflate this like like got him from under the
balls.
You mean lean right sharp, noshredded yeah thin like skinny.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
I was just like that's it.
So then, like I bumped it up tolike six sets per exercise and
then I put arms in front of allof the stuff yeah, while you're
fresh, yeah right.
So if pro tip, if you want toum, if you want to improve a
muscle group, train it firstwhile you're fresh, don't wait
to the end of your workout.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
You know like it's kind of do the big stuff first,
but so anyway.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
So yeah so that's what I did.
I put, I put like five or sixsets of biceps and triceps at
the front of on my push and pullworkouts for eight weeks or so
and uh, then tanya was like wow,babe, your arms look bigger.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
I can see a difference in your arms, for
sure.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
100 and I was like oh , okay because I look in the
mirror.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I'm like I look the same to me but like she's, you
know it's nice to get to getthat external validation.
You look less skinny, yeah, youlook.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah, your stomach doesn't look skinny anymore.
Oh, it was my stomach you weretalking about.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
What does it look like now?
Oh shit, no, I got a clientwho's also super tall, I mean,
he's like 6'6", I think, andwe're working out six days a
week, so working out a lot, butwe were doing doing push-pull
legs, push-pull legs.
He was looking great, but hisarms needed a little more juice.
So I gave him a dedicated armday, like a full-hour arm blast,
(23:28):
no few sets, and he was likethat did it Because we were
working out arms, but similar,increasing his volume, but
always within a workout.
So I kind of flipped the scriptand gave him a pure arm day and
like, not even like singlejoint, with like some glute
bridges, just like pure arms andshoulders, all single joint,
and his arms just blew up fromit and he was like that he's
(23:49):
like I'm seeing my arms getbigger.
Finally, he's like they'venever grown, yeah, and so it's
just funny the volume, yeah,it's just, it's like the classic
case if, like here, here's likejust fundamental principles,
right?
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Like people who say I've died and I don't lose
weight, you just haven't died itenough, you just haven't
brought your calories to thepoint to where you're in a
spectrum.
Oh, I'm a hard gainer, nomatter what, trust me, there is
a point where you will eatenough calories, where you will
put on size.
And if you haven't put on sizeyet, sorry dude, you just
(24:21):
haven't eaten enough caloriesyet, and that might be 4,500 a
day, dude yes, you know and likeespecially if you're like a
young guy in your 20s, like itcould very well be 4,000.
Yeah, 5,000 calories beforeyou're like, oh, I'm finally
putting on weight.
But trust me from a guy who'sdone this, I was at 4,800
calories a day for six months.
That's intense Gross.
(24:41):
I wanted to vomit every meal,but like that's what it took
when I was 20 years old you know, and that's what it took for
him.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Yeah, I think he took like 47,000, 5,000.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
He was like I have to order two dinners, like if he
goes like, if you're trainingregularly like this, like your
client, but like there's amuscle that's just lagging,
which we all have, like I can dolike four sets of squats and
have huge ass that I can't evenbutt in my pants, but I'll do 10
, 15 sets of bicep curls andI'll nothing changes.
I'm just like but.
(25:16):
But you know, there comes apoint with volume that like
eventually it's going to reachthat critical mass point where
it's like you're getting, you'reeating protein and you're
eating a calorie surplus or atleast at maintenance, and you're
trained like that you're gonnayou're gonna you're gonna see
some results.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
That's such a good example, because if you just
kind of kept going withoutchanging your program or giving
the focus to it, you would havemight have just continued down
the road you know the same withlike other client, but paying
attention to what you need,changing your program,
committing to those changes andthen tracking progress hop on a
scale every morning, like if youdo, if your goal is to put on
size or even lose inches.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Like just do before every six to eight week cycle.
Just do a belly buttoncircumference around your waist,
upper arm, upper thigh, yeahmaybe shoulders and chest, but
like, just do that once everyeight weeks and then see, did
that six-week cycle do anythingfor?
Me right yeah no, I guess itdidn't all right.
So let's, let's.
Let's either do somethingdifferent, train harder, adjust
(26:09):
diet, which is usually always,almost always the case, right?
Speaker 2 (26:12):
but it's still.
That's like if your arm grows aquarter of an inch in two
months.
That's huge that's a lot,that's a lot or you know it's
that measurable and now you cankind of see how it all ties
together.
It's like you have yourtraining programs.
You can use that for your bodycomposition goal posts you know,
take selfies and pictures andmeasurements.
And you know, especially withthe phone, like we all got
notepads now, like I rememberwatching guys with their little
(26:33):
book writing every workout downby hand, right, every set, every
rep, every weight, because theydidn't have smartphones with no
pads.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
So imagine like this you know, like the modern day,
conveniences are all around us,plus there's like a gazillion
apps that just do it for you.
Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
So it's like we have less and less excuses.
You know we have more and moretime, probably in a lot of ways
than totally, yeah, less stress.
So well.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Episode 61 on programming I.
I hope that helped get you guysmotivated to actually just
start writing your shit down andtracking your numbers.
What gets measured gets managedand what gets managed gets
improved.
But if we don't measureanything, we can't expect to
improve it.
Measurement comes in the formof writing how much weight
you're lifting in certainexercises, how many reps you're
(27:16):
able to do at that weight, howmany calories you're consuming,
how many grams of protein you'relifting in certain exercises,
how many reps you're able to doat that weight, how many
calories you're consuming, howmany grams of protein you're
eating, and then measuring theoutputs of that of like your
morning weigh-in on the scale,your measurements around your
legs.
And if you're not doing atleast a few of those basics,
you're unfortunately probablygoing to be like the people we
talked about in the beginning ofthe episode that can spend
years training and just and justnot really see any outcome.
(27:37):
You're still wandering aroundthe forest.
Yeah, you're just like yeah,you're moving, but you're
zigzagging.
You're not really gettinganywhere.
You know that same amount ofeffort can be channeled and
directed and get really greatresults, and so I highly
encourage everyone to just, atthe very least, get a notes
folder.
Go on their phone and writesome basics and you'll really
see humans have a really hardtime seeing numbers and not
(27:59):
wanting to improve them.
If you're having money issues,look at your bank account every
single day yeah, I'll get youlook at it every single day, see
where every one of thoseexpenses goes.
I guarantee you you'll seeimprovement.
Okay, team, we'll catch y'allnext week for episode 62.
Peace out.
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