October 7, 2025 • 26 mins
Mike shares how he's helping rebuild Punchmark’s Premium Vendor Program from a one-way data pipe into a two-way system that gives vendors and retailers real value. He discusses zero-to-one strategy, systems thinking, and practical steps to standardize data, deliver insights, and reduce friction.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
Welcome to In the Loop.
What is up everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo.
Thanks again for listening to Inthe Loop.
This week, an internal episode.
So this week I want to talkabout something I've been
working on at Punchmark for thelast just about five months or
so.
I was handed control and uhmanagement of the Punchmark
(00:25):
Premium Vendor Program.
And I kind of wanted to talkabout the program and also take
a high-level view on how you cantake a program that might be
functioning in one direction andthen overhaul it and set up
infrastructure and systems andbuild new things and eventually
try to monetize it.
I think it's hopefully going tobe an interesting conversation
(00:45):
and look behind the curtain, butalso talk about where
Punchmark's role as thiscrossroads between retailers and
vendors comes into play, andalso talk about how to take
something from zero to one,which is what I've kind of
always specialized in atPunchmark.
Some people go from one to ahundred really well, and I think
I operate best going from zeroto one, setting things up, what
(01:08):
I call propping things up in aspecial operations way, and then
handing it to someone else.
So sit back, enjoy.
Cheers.
SPEAKER_00 (01:20):
This episode is brought to you by Punchmark, the
jewelry industry's favoritewebsite platform and digital
growth agency.
Our mission reaches way beyondtechnology.
With decades of experience andlong-lasting industry
relationships, Punchmark enablesjewelry businesses to flourish
in any marketplace.
We consider our clients ourfriends, as many of them have
(01:41):
been friends way before becomingclients.
Punchmark's own success comesfrom the fact that we have a
much deeper need and obligationto help our friends succeed.
Whether you're looking forbetter e-commerce performance,
business growth, or campaignsthat drive traffic and sales,
PunchMark's website andmarketing services were made
just for you.
It's never too late to transformyour business and stitch
(02:02):
together your digital andphysical worlds in a way that
achieves tremendous growth andresults.
Schedule a guided demo today atpunchmark.com slash go.
And now back to the show.
SPEAKER_01 (02:21):
Okay everybody.
So I want to talk about thispremium vendor program and I
want to make it interesting.
So bear with me because I reallyam going to try to explain this
from like a business strategy orlike a design perspective
instead of just talking aboutlike what this program does.
Because sometimes, like ifyou're just trying to get here
(02:42):
for interesting jewelry stories,like how do I make this
interesting to you as a businessowner?
So one thing I want to talkabout, like I mentioned in the
intro, is going from zero to oneand then one to a hundred.
And some people just have bestbetter skill sets and are just
better at certain parts of it.
I think that uh some people Ithink that uh are better at like
(03:04):
working inside of systems.
They are uh system guys and likethey are good at being told,
okay, this is the process, thisis how you plug in, this is you
know, where you reference yourreference sheet and you kind of
go from there.
I have some friends that aregreat at that.
There's no nothing wrong withthat.
And honestly, I think thatengineers are always uh pretty
(03:25):
pretty strong at that.
What I've always been good at, Ithink, and where I've kind of
made my mark at Punchmark uh isgoing from zero to one for a
bunch of things.
Uh I've been at Punchmark forabout eight and a half years
now, and in my time here, I havedone a lot of what I call
special operations, and that Idon't really have a clear
(03:46):
defined role a lot of the times.
And what happens is they give mean idea that is, I'm not gonna
say half-baked, but like kind oflike the early idea.
And then they say, All right,Mike, can you make this happen?
So here's an example.
Uh, this podcast.
My bosses wanted to have apodcast, and they they identify
(04:08):
all the reasons.
Okay, we want to have a podcastbecause we want to reach you
know, retailers in a unique way.
We want to stand out, we want touh solidify ourselves as thought
leaders, we want to help theindustry, all those things.
And it started out as a groupcollaboration, but it was such a
heavy lift with so many peoplethat eventually they kind of
were like, all right, Mike, whatcan we do to make this actually
(04:30):
work without being painful?
And I had to go ahead and allthe decisions that you might not
see in the background come intoplay.
So working with our editor andworking with our um, like what
are the what's the layout goingto be?
How do you structure a podcastinto two parts or three acts or
whatever it's going to be?
(04:50):
Um, how do you stay organized?
How do you plan for episodes?
You don't realize it, but I havea spreadsheet that I put
everything in.
Building that spreadsheet iskind of one of those things that
I think I'm pretty good at.
I whip up a Google sheet likeit's no one's business.
You know, I can really make aGoogle sheet.
And that's the kind of thingthat they've given me.
I also did that for our devteams uh switch from what we
(05:14):
call Kanban to Agile.
Kanban is where individualprojects are handed from person
to person, and it's sort of likeas it comes in, you know, uh
easy come, easy go.
And it's like, all right, thisis what you're working on right
now, and this is what you'reworking on right now.
Whereas Agile is split intosprints, which is to say you get
(05:35):
your hopper full of work, andthen we go into it and we have a
one week or two week sprint, andthey get assigned, the devs get
assigned their work, and then westart, they start working on it.
And I led the transition,meaning I had to fill up, you
know, build out an agile anagile board, and what is the
process, and set up therecurring meetings and uh set up
(05:58):
these workflows that pop intoour Slack every single week on
Tuesdays and Wednesdays.
There's a new workflow that popsin that says, Hey, if you have a
ticket, make sure you send it inby this time and it tags people.
That kind of stuff is what Ithink I have made my uh mark at
punch mark with is thinking inthe form of systems.
(06:20):
Another person who's really goodat this is our project
management, um, project manager,uh Lorenzo.
He's incredibly strong at this.
He works on project managementand projects, where he has this
whole system, we call it uhtraffic control, and as things
come in, he it creates a JIRAand he assigns it to people and
(06:40):
it pops into a Slack channel.
And that system takes a lot oftime and effort to set up, but
when it works well, it makeseverybody's job easier.
And I always say it feels likeswimming.
It's like you're just kind offloating through and you're
going.
And I was given the premiumvendor program um relatively
(07:01):
recently, back in April, and Ican confidently say it was very
daunting.
I uh the vendor program has beenwith Punchmarks since the very
beginning, pretty much.
And uh Ross loves to remind mewe had this early version called
uh the retail marketplace, Ithink it was, and the vendor
(07:22):
marketplace, that it wouldvendors could add in data and
they could add in marketingbanners, and it was just very um
it wasn't it wasn't mature yet,but it had some really strong
nuggets, and eventually it waspaired back to just a form of
(07:43):
centralized data.
So, why do we do this?
And I I promise we're gonna getinto the interesting part, but I
gotta set this thing up.
The vendor program is one ofpunchmarks, what we call motes,
and I think in the form ofbusiness all the time, and uh
these business analysts talkabout motes.
Like, for example, Amazon has anincredible moat when it comes to
(08:05):
um last mile delivery, they havea fleet of delivery and delivery
systems and delivery uh lockersthat allows them to get those
deliveries done.
If someone wanted to competeagainst them, they would have to
invest a staggering amount ofmoney to cross or match that
moat.
And this is one of those thingsthat prevents them from being,
(08:27):
you know, siege, if you will.
And one of the things that thispremium vendor program does for
us is um, you know, we've spenta ton of time building up this
system, working with ourvendors, liaising with them,
which is what I'm doing rightnow, and centralizing the data
in a standardized form so thatwhen people ask us, hey, what
(08:48):
does Punchmark have versus a umanother website platform or a
generic website platform uh thatyou've probably heard of?
We can confidently say, Oh, wework with vendors to centralize
uh millions of products.
And if you carry those products,then you can quickly load them.
And that's one of those thingsthat we have is it's a nice moat
(09:10):
and it allows us to um, youknow, be a crossroad.
So what are some of thestruggles with it?
Well, vendors, I love a man.
If there's any vendorslistening, we love you.
But some vendors are not verydata sav or uh tech savvy, so
they might not have great data.
And what we require is if youhave, you might call it, I don't
(09:33):
know, metal type, and thenanother one might be might call
it product components orsomething like that.
Well, we gotta decide what arewe going to display on a
website's you know on the frontend, and we have to standardize
and normalize the data.
So, how do we filter and funnelthat in?
(09:54):
Well, it takes a lot of work.
So, why what is that?
You don't need to knoweverything about it, but why am
I talking about this?
Well, I got handed this programwhen our previous vendor liaison
had stepped away, and I wasworking on like more business
operations end of things, and uhRoss called me up one day and
was like, Hey, what do you thinkabout taking on this new
(10:17):
program?
To give you an idea, we haveseven branches of our company.
We have project management,design, development, marketing,
customer success, and vendors.
And oh, and sales.
And getting a branch of a of aof a company is kind of
daunting.
And the thing is, is it was sortof you know going to be in flux
(10:40):
because the previous person wasstepping away.
I want to make this clear.
I am not a data person.
I went to school for design, Idon't know anything about data.
But if you approach this withdesign thinking and you think
about this, I guess as astrategist, well, suddenly you
can be a little bit creative.
(11:00):
And to give you an idea aboutthis, like uh when a vendor
provides me a spreadsheet, well,you've got to go in and hand it
uh, how do you hand it to thedeveloper to import?
And how do you communicate backthis information about the data
having issues?
Well, I think that if you thinkabout your own business, there's
(11:22):
probably a lot of things thatyou might not know how to do.
For example, maybe your websiteor maybe uh stone setting or
maybe watch battery repair orthings like that.
But you have to trust otherpeople to get it done, and you
have to work yourself into thesystem in a way that you're not
going to freak out.
I am a guy who's very prone toanxiety.
(11:43):
I know that about myself, andthis program taking it on was
very overwhelming and very muchmade me super anxious and I was
very stressed.
But when you start thinkingabout it as like a complex
project that someone gave you,it's better to work with what
you've already got as opposed touh whitewashing right over and
(12:07):
like fixing it or uh startingfrom a clean slate and then
building because if you can usewhat they gave you, you're a
little bit farther down the roadthan if you start from scratch.
So why are we doing this?
Well, I keep in mind thatvendors, the relationship
between vendors and retailers isvery important to the jewelry
(12:28):
industry's ecosystems.
There are there's this chain ofuh product as it goes to the the
shopper where the manufacturermakes it, and a lot of times the
vendor is them producingsomething and then they're
distributing it to the retailer,and then eventually the retailer
sells it to the shopper and theshopper's happy.
(12:48):
Well, how can we set upourselves to conduct information
and data in that way?
Punchmark already does that withtheir the website, it's the
natural vessel for these thisproduct data.
But to me, I always think about,for example, if a uh retailer
subscribes to a vendor, uh theysign up at a jewelry show and
(13:10):
they sign up with I'm not gonnaname a name because they're not
paying us at one of our premiumvendors, and they sign up and
it's like, hey, uh, you gottaget all this product on your
website so that you can startselling it.
Well, they could go in and theycould take all the product and
photograph it in their light boxand write descriptions and write
titles and and fill outmaterials.
(13:32):
That takes a lot of time and alot of work.
Well, what if there's an easierway?
And that's where the vendorprogram comes in.
But what is it in reverse?
Why would a vendor want to be inthere other than to make their
retailers, you know, a littlebit happier and a little bit
easier?
Well, for me, I think what wecould offer the re uh the vendor
(13:55):
is to let them know whatproducts are doing well.
But we don't do that yet.
We weren't offering theminsights yet.
And I think one of the issueswas at a core principle, the the
flow and the crossroads that wewere setting up for this
relationship.
And this is just me talking outloud and trying to, you know,
(14:18):
explain something that has beenvery complex and something that
I feel like I've had to, I don'tknow, discern for myself is like
we were setting up essentiallylike a yield sign for one
direction and not the other.
So one lane of traffic wasalways getting priority, and the
other one was kind of getting novalue in return or wasn't seeing
(14:42):
value.
So I decided to reach in and tryto talk about and and discern
what it is we could offer backto the vendor on behalf of the
retailer so that they might beable to see the value and also
be more excited to be a part ofthe program.
And this is very different thanwhat the vendor program was
(15:05):
doing beforehand.
Is uh before it was like thevendors would like give us data
and we require data to be sentevery 90 days because that's how
you know otherwise the pricesmight be out of date or the
product availability might beout of date.
So they were sending us data,sending us data, and the
retailers were you knowingesting it, they were taking
it and putting it on theirwebsite, but there was no like
(15:28):
communication, and there's no,hey, this is going well, or hey,
this is not going well.
It was just send us more data,send us more data.
And the retailers um weren'treally like saying anything
about it either.
They weren't really tellingthem, hey, this is going well.
It was very much like we had tooperate on just a mutual vibes
(15:49):
agreement that, hey, this isgoing well for everybody.
But when you're not seeing amonetary or visual value to
something, it's hard to kind ofprioritize it, right?
You we're humans, we tend tojust value what's in front of us
and what we can see with oureyeballs.
And sometimes it means that,like, if I was to say, take
(16:12):
something from you for free, andthen one day I'm like, hey, this
is really expensive for me.
Uh, can you start giving me, youknow, a hundred dollars every
time I do this?
Well, suddenly it's like, well,we could just stop doing it
because I don't see the value init.
But if you were to say then,like, oh, but it is really
valuable, well, suddenly it'slike, well, you haven't shown me
(16:33):
that it's valuable, so why am Igonna give you the money?
So, how can we make it valuableto the vendor?
And that's the conversation thatI've started to have.
And it's been a lot of work.
Uh one of it is asking forfeedback.
So, one thing that I've learnedfrom retailers is that they are
always talking with theircustomers and they are always
(16:56):
figuring out what is going well.
You all probably know betterthan anybody what is going to be
successful at your at your shop.
And that's what's always sofunny is that a lot of times
vendors are saying to retailers,this is going to be so good,
like this product is going to beso successful at your short uh
(17:19):
shop.
When it to me, I'm almost like,I think you're kind of out of
place.
Like the retailer knows what isactually going to sell because
you're the one that can look atwhat has sold for the last one
year, five years, a hundredyears, and tell them, yeah, like
this is gonna be successful,this is not going to be
successful.
Granted, there might be someinsights about the future when
(17:42):
it comes to like upcomingtrends, but even still, I feel
like trends are different fordifferent parts of the country
and for different, you know,industries or uh spaces.
I think it's like you knowbetter than everybody.
So, like when it comes to thevalue, what can we offer?
And for me, I think one of thethings is to let vendors know
(18:02):
which retailers are doing reallywell and for them.
And one of the things that Iwant to allow is have vendors
have the insight to see, ah,this retailer gets tons of
traffic online and is doing sowell and is uh your products are
getting tons of traffic um fromthem, not just in general,
(18:24):
because that's not theirbusiness if you are doing well
uh online.
It's more like if your products,if their products are doing well
on your site, that's the kind ofinformation that then maybe this
vendor could prioritize you alittle bit more and say, like,
hey, like, why are you doing sowell online with our products?
Like, let's let's talk about it.
(18:45):
What are you doing right?
How can we service you better?
And then suddenly therelationship is more in depth
and there's value to it.
The other type of information Ithink that would be really good
is providing information aboutwhat products are doing well
across all websites.
So some of these retailers havelike, you know, 50 or 100 or 250
(19:10):
uh retailers that are subscribedto them.
Well, those retailers get apretty diverse in and broad
range of shoppers.
But if a couple of products aregetting a lot of clicks and are
selling pretty well off a coupleof retailer sites, well,
shouldn't they know?
Right?
I think that that's theinteresting part is I feel like
(19:32):
if um you know one of ourvendors can find out that this
product, their uh, you know,three-stone engagement ring gets
tons of clicks and tons ofwishless ads, well, something is
something is good about thatproduct, right?
That's kind of an easyestimation.
So to me, I think if we can justmake it so that that information
(19:54):
is available to a vendor, thensuddenly that vendor is seeing
some value in the relationshipwith us and to the retailer.
And when we position ourselvesthere, like a crossroads, well,
suddenly you can direct traffic.
You know, you get to say, like,hey, this is going well, or this
is not going well, or hey, canyou give us a little bit of
(20:17):
money to cover our costs?
And that whole data is the newgold um idea, that's from the
2010s.
But I think it's still true.
It's just you gotta stick andmove about what products are
doing, uh, about uh how youleverage that data.
And I think it's fascinatingbecause we're working with some
of the biggest vendors in theworld.
(20:39):
Uh, you know, Stular and uhAjaffee and Quality Gold and uh
Viragio and Royal Chain andRembrandt Charms, all these, all
these folks, man.
And I I love their jewelry, butsome of them uh it's almost like
they haven't been asked uh orthey haven't put the time in yet
(21:00):
to work on their data, and someof them have.
And it's so fascinating, likethe discrepancy where like some
people have incredible data andsome people have not good data.
So to me, it's about normalizingand standardizing this uh data
in relationship as best as I canand taking it from like an
(21:22):
operations and systemsstandpoint, and that's what I'm
trying to do.
I've been leading the overhaulof this department since April,
and we're starting to see somechanges.
Uh it's so funny, it works soit's so slow getting this stuff
done because every single step,it's like you can't just say,
(21:45):
hey, vendors should start payingmoney.
To me, it's like, okay, why whyare they gonna pay the money?
You know, you can't just say,hey, give us money, because
they'll just say no, and thenthey'll leave, you know?
It's like, okay, what can weoffer them to make them pay us
money?
Well, we can outline a couplefeatures and you gotta ask them,
hey, what features would youmost want?
(22:05):
And then they tell you, but theydon't tell you, hey, we want a
way to upload marketing imagesfor all of our uh all of our
clients.
We want, they they say, we wannawe do marketing campaigns.
Can you make it so that likeevery retailer can access them?
Okay, how do we make that work?
And then suddenly it's like yougotta go so many steps back and
(22:27):
work on it together.
And it's been fun, it's beenstressful, but it's been fun.
And I gotta give a lot ofshout-outs to Ross and Brian at
Punchmark because you knowthey're my my partners in this
thing.
And getting things started isthe scary part.
But once we get things uh, youknow, flying, you know, let's
(22:49):
say we get vendors to, you know,be more invested and we build
this system that makes it sothat vendors are really leaning
in.
Well then, and retailershopefully are more happy because
they have more products andbetter products on their
website, and maybe they'remaking more sales and things
look better and they have morerobust uh data points for their
(23:10):
products.
Well, everything nothing justflops out of the sky.
Everything requires a little bitof extra, you know, effort and
information and you knowprocess.
And I think that that's one ofthose things that I've been
successful in in the past.
And if, you know, the past isanything to look at, then I'll
hopefully be successful in this,you know, upcoming era.
(23:32):
How will this impact you?
Well, I'm hoping to get thisthing done by the end of the
year.
I'm hoping that in the end ofthe year we'll get a lot of the
vendor overhaul done.
And then starting next year,I'll be able to go to a bunch of
jewelry shows and talk tovendors and get them to really
buy in on the process.
(23:53):
And then who knows where we gofrom there?
You know, once they're really inand we can have retailers and
vendors like, you know what Imean, like talking to each
other, we don't have to play thegame of telephone.
We don't have to be in themiddle, hey, the retailer said
your data is bad, you know, yourproducts are out of date.
And then the vendor says, okay,here's the new data.
(24:14):
And then we say to the retailer,uh, hey, the data is up to date.
Instead, if we were to have itso that retailers could say,
Hey, how come your new line ofuh of jewelry isn't in the
premium vendor program?
They'd be like, Oh, let's addthat.
They add it, and then theretailer understands that.
If that's the case, thensuddenly everyone's happier and
(24:35):
more human together.
Okay, that was a long, complexthought that I've been thinking
about for the last pretty longwhile.
And I've been trying my best touh keep it under wraps because
it's just not done yet.
And I sometimes worry aboutsharing things that are not yet
done.
But this one, to me, it'stalking about it from like a a
(24:57):
data and infrastructureperspective that makes it kind
of interesting.
I've talked about it with myfriends that are not at
Punchmark, where I'm likeexplaining how we have to offer
value and get people to buy in,and then we can make, you know,
more strategic steps from there.
And pretty much everybody thinksit's very interesting that it's
(25:17):
you know this complex thoughtand we're flipping something on
its head that's never been donebefore.
And I figured I would share itbecause that's what in the
loop's about.
It's about sharing, you know,interesting stories and topics
that we're working on thathopefully impact jewelry stores
and the jewelry industry um on aon a large basis.
(25:40):
So that's what I'm working on.
Overhauling the vendor program.
If you have any questions or anyfeedback about the vendor
program, do reach out.
Michael at punchmark.com.
I'd love to talk with you andhear your thoughts.
Definitely open it up.
(26:00):
Alright, everybody, that's theend of the show.
Thanks so much for listening.
This week was a solo episode,and this episode was brought to
you by Punchmark.
This episode was hosted by me,Michael Burpo, and edited by
Paul Suarez with music by RossCochran.
Don't forget to rate the podcaston Spotify and Apple Podcasts,
and leave us feedback onpunchmark.com slash loop.
(26:23):
That's L-O-U-P-E.
Thanks, we'll be back next week,Tuesday, with another episode.
Cheers.
Bye.
Welcome to In the Loop.
What is up everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo.
Thanks again for listening to Inthe Loop.
This week, an internal episode.
So this week I want to talkabout something I've been
working on at Punchmark for thelast just about five months or
so.
I was handed control and uhmanagement of the Punchmark
(00:25):
Premium Vendor Program.
And I kind of wanted to talkabout the program and also take
a high-level view on how you cantake a program that might be
functioning in one direction andthen overhaul it and set up
infrastructure and systems andbuild new things and eventually
try to monetize it.
I think it's hopefully going tobe an interesting conversation
(00:45):
and look behind the curtain, butalso talk about where
Punchmark's role as thiscrossroads between retailers and
vendors comes into play, andalso talk about how to take
something from zero to one,which is what I've kind of
always specialized in atPunchmark.
Some people go from one to ahundred really well, and I think
I operate best going from zeroto one, setting things up, what
(01:08):
I call propping things up in aspecial operations way, and then
handing it to someone else.
So sit back, enjoy.
Cheers.
SPEAKER_00 (01:20):
This episode is brought to you by Punchmark, the
jewelry industry's favoritewebsite platform and digital
growth agency.
Our mission reaches way beyondtechnology.
With decades of experience andlong-lasting industry
relationships, Punchmark enablesjewelry businesses to flourish
in any marketplace.
We consider our clients ourfriends, as many of them have
(01:41):
been friends way before becomingclients.
Punchmark's own success comesfrom the fact that we have a
much deeper need and obligationto help our friends succeed.
Whether you're looking forbetter e-commerce performance,
business growth, or campaignsthat drive traffic and sales,
PunchMark's website andmarketing services were made
just for you.
It's never too late to transformyour business and stitch
(02:02):
together your digital andphysical worlds in a way that
achieves tremendous growth andresults.
Schedule a guided demo today atpunchmark.com slash go.
And now back to the show.
SPEAKER_01 (02:21):
Okay everybody.
So I want to talk about thispremium vendor program and I
want to make it interesting.
So bear with me because I reallyam going to try to explain this
from like a business strategy orlike a design perspective
instead of just talking aboutlike what this program does.
Because sometimes, like ifyou're just trying to get here
(02:42):
for interesting jewelry stories,like how do I make this
interesting to you as a businessowner?
So one thing I want to talkabout, like I mentioned in the
intro, is going from zero to oneand then one to a hundred.
And some people just have bestbetter skill sets and are just
better at certain parts of it.
I think that uh some people Ithink that uh are better at like
(03:04):
working inside of systems.
They are uh system guys and likethey are good at being told,
okay, this is the process, thisis how you plug in, this is you
know, where you reference yourreference sheet and you kind of
go from there.
I have some friends that aregreat at that.
There's no nothing wrong withthat.
And honestly, I think thatengineers are always uh pretty
(03:25):
pretty strong at that.
What I've always been good at, Ithink, and where I've kind of
made my mark at Punchmark uh isgoing from zero to one for a
bunch of things.
Uh I've been at Punchmark forabout eight and a half years
now, and in my time here, I havedone a lot of what I call
special operations, and that Idon't really have a clear
(03:46):
defined role a lot of the times.
And what happens is they give mean idea that is, I'm not gonna
say half-baked, but like kind oflike the early idea.
And then they say, All right,Mike, can you make this happen?
So here's an example.
Uh, this podcast.
My bosses wanted to have apodcast, and they they identify
(04:08):
all the reasons.
Okay, we want to have a podcastbecause we want to reach you
know, retailers in a unique way.
We want to stand out, we want touh solidify ourselves as thought
leaders, we want to help theindustry, all those things.
And it started out as a groupcollaboration, but it was such a
heavy lift with so many peoplethat eventually they kind of
were like, all right, Mike, whatcan we do to make this actually
(04:30):
work without being painful?
And I had to go ahead and allthe decisions that you might not
see in the background come intoplay.
So working with our editor andworking with our um, like what
are the what's the layout goingto be?
How do you structure a podcastinto two parts or three acts or
whatever it's going to be?
(04:50):
Um, how do you stay organized?
How do you plan for episodes?
You don't realize it, but I havea spreadsheet that I put
everything in.
Building that spreadsheet iskind of one of those things that
I think I'm pretty good at.
I whip up a Google sheet likeit's no one's business.
You know, I can really make aGoogle sheet.
And that's the kind of thingthat they've given me.
I also did that for our devteams uh switch from what we
(05:14):
call Kanban to Agile.
Kanban is where individualprojects are handed from person
to person, and it's sort of likeas it comes in, you know, uh
easy come, easy go.
And it's like, all right, thisis what you're working on right
now, and this is what you'reworking on right now.
Whereas Agile is split intosprints, which is to say you get
(05:35):
your hopper full of work, andthen we go into it and we have a
one week or two week sprint, andthey get assigned, the devs get
assigned their work, and then westart, they start working on it.
And I led the transition,meaning I had to fill up, you
know, build out an agile anagile board, and what is the
process, and set up therecurring meetings and uh set up
(05:58):
these workflows that pop intoour Slack every single week on
Tuesdays and Wednesdays.
There's a new workflow that popsin that says, Hey, if you have a
ticket, make sure you send it inby this time and it tags people.
That kind of stuff is what Ithink I have made my uh mark at
punch mark with is thinking inthe form of systems.
(06:20):
Another person who's really goodat this is our project
management, um, project manager,uh Lorenzo.
He's incredibly strong at this.
He works on project managementand projects, where he has this
whole system, we call it uhtraffic control, and as things
come in, he it creates a JIRAand he assigns it to people and
(06:40):
it pops into a Slack channel.
And that system takes a lot oftime and effort to set up, but
when it works well, it makeseverybody's job easier.
And I always say it feels likeswimming.
It's like you're just kind offloating through and you're
going.
And I was given the premiumvendor program um relatively
(07:01):
recently, back in April, and Ican confidently say it was very
daunting.
I uh the vendor program has beenwith Punchmarks since the very
beginning, pretty much.
And uh Ross loves to remind mewe had this early version called
uh the retail marketplace, Ithink it was, and the vendor
(07:22):
marketplace, that it wouldvendors could add in data and
they could add in marketingbanners, and it was just very um
it wasn't it wasn't mature yet,but it had some really strong
nuggets, and eventually it waspaired back to just a form of
(07:43):
centralized data.
So, why do we do this?
And I I promise we're gonna getinto the interesting part, but I
gotta set this thing up.
The vendor program is one ofpunchmarks, what we call motes,
and I think in the form ofbusiness all the time, and uh
these business analysts talkabout motes.
Like, for example, Amazon has anincredible moat when it comes to
(08:05):
um last mile delivery, they havea fleet of delivery and delivery
systems and delivery uh lockersthat allows them to get those
deliveries done.
If someone wanted to competeagainst them, they would have to
invest a staggering amount ofmoney to cross or match that
moat.
And this is one of those thingsthat prevents them from being,
(08:27):
you know, siege, if you will.
And one of the things that thispremium vendor program does for
us is um, you know, we've spenta ton of time building up this
system, working with ourvendors, liaising with them,
which is what I'm doing rightnow, and centralizing the data
in a standardized form so thatwhen people ask us, hey, what
(08:48):
does Punchmark have versus a umanother website platform or a
generic website platform uh thatyou've probably heard of?
We can confidently say, Oh, wework with vendors to centralize
uh millions of products.
And if you carry those products,then you can quickly load them.
And that's one of those thingsthat we have is it's a nice moat
(09:10):
and it allows us to um, youknow, be a crossroad.
So what are some of thestruggles with it?
Well, vendors, I love a man.
If there's any vendorslistening, we love you.
But some vendors are not verydata sav or uh tech savvy, so
they might not have great data.
And what we require is if youhave, you might call it, I don't
(09:33):
know, metal type, and thenanother one might be might call
it product components orsomething like that.
Well, we gotta decide what arewe going to display on a
website's you know on the frontend, and we have to standardize
and normalize the data.
So, how do we filter and funnelthat in?
(09:54):
Well, it takes a lot of work.
So, why what is that?
You don't need to knoweverything about it, but why am
I talking about this?
Well, I got handed this programwhen our previous vendor liaison
had stepped away, and I wasworking on like more business
operations end of things, and uhRoss called me up one day and
was like, Hey, what do you thinkabout taking on this new
(10:17):
program?
To give you an idea, we haveseven branches of our company.
We have project management,design, development, marketing,
customer success, and vendors.
And oh, and sales.
And getting a branch of a of aof a company is kind of
daunting.
And the thing is, is it was sortof you know going to be in flux
(10:40):
because the previous person wasstepping away.
I want to make this clear.
I am not a data person.
I went to school for design, Idon't know anything about data.
But if you approach this withdesign thinking and you think
about this, I guess as astrategist, well, suddenly you
can be a little bit creative.
(11:00):
And to give you an idea aboutthis, like uh when a vendor
provides me a spreadsheet, well,you've got to go in and hand it
uh, how do you hand it to thedeveloper to import?
And how do you communicate backthis information about the data
having issues?
Well, I think that if you thinkabout your own business, there's
(11:22):
probably a lot of things thatyou might not know how to do.
For example, maybe your websiteor maybe uh stone setting or
maybe watch battery repair orthings like that.
But you have to trust otherpeople to get it done, and you
have to work yourself into thesystem in a way that you're not
going to freak out.
I am a guy who's very prone toanxiety.
(11:43):
I know that about myself, andthis program taking it on was
very overwhelming and very muchmade me super anxious and I was
very stressed.
But when you start thinkingabout it as like a complex
project that someone gave you,it's better to work with what
you've already got as opposed touh whitewashing right over and
(12:07):
like fixing it or uh startingfrom a clean slate and then
building because if you can usewhat they gave you, you're a
little bit farther down the roadthan if you start from scratch.
So why are we doing this?
Well, I keep in mind thatvendors, the relationship
between vendors and retailers isvery important to the jewelry
(12:28):
industry's ecosystems.
There are there's this chain ofuh product as it goes to the the
shopper where the manufacturermakes it, and a lot of times the
vendor is them producingsomething and then they're
distributing it to the retailer,and then eventually the retailer
sells it to the shopper and theshopper's happy.
(12:48):
Well, how can we set upourselves to conduct information
and data in that way?
Punchmark already does that withtheir the website, it's the
natural vessel for these thisproduct data.
But to me, I always think about,for example, if a uh retailer
subscribes to a vendor, uh theysign up at a jewelry show and
(13:10):
they sign up with I'm not gonnaname a name because they're not
paying us at one of our premiumvendors, and they sign up and
it's like, hey, uh, you gottaget all this product on your
website so that you can startselling it.
Well, they could go in and theycould take all the product and
photograph it in their light boxand write descriptions and write
titles and and fill outmaterials.
(13:32):
That takes a lot of time and alot of work.
Well, what if there's an easierway?
And that's where the vendorprogram comes in.
But what is it in reverse?
Why would a vendor want to be inthere other than to make their
retailers, you know, a littlebit happier and a little bit
easier?
Well, for me, I think what wecould offer the re uh the vendor
(13:55):
is to let them know whatproducts are doing well.
But we don't do that yet.
We weren't offering theminsights yet.
And I think one of the issueswas at a core principle, the the
flow and the crossroads that wewere setting up for this
relationship.
And this is just me talking outloud and trying to, you know,
(14:18):
explain something that has beenvery complex and something that
I feel like I've had to, I don'tknow, discern for myself is like
we were setting up essentiallylike a yield sign for one
direction and not the other.
So one lane of traffic wasalways getting priority, and the
other one was kind of getting novalue in return or wasn't seeing
(14:42):
value.
So I decided to reach in and tryto talk about and and discern
what it is we could offer backto the vendor on behalf of the
retailer so that they might beable to see the value and also
be more excited to be a part ofthe program.
And this is very different thanwhat the vendor program was
(15:05):
doing beforehand.
Is uh before it was like thevendors would like give us data
and we require data to be sentevery 90 days because that's how
you know otherwise the pricesmight be out of date or the
product availability might beout of date.
So they were sending us data,sending us data, and the
retailers were you knowingesting it, they were taking
it and putting it on theirwebsite, but there was no like
(15:28):
communication, and there's no,hey, this is going well, or hey,
this is not going well.
It was just send us more data,send us more data.
And the retailers um weren'treally like saying anything
about it either.
They weren't really tellingthem, hey, this is going well.
It was very much like we had tooperate on just a mutual vibes
(15:49):
agreement that, hey, this isgoing well for everybody.
But when you're not seeing amonetary or visual value to
something, it's hard to kind ofprioritize it, right?
You we're humans, we tend tojust value what's in front of us
and what we can see with oureyeballs.
And sometimes it means that,like, if I was to say, take
(16:12):
something from you for free, andthen one day I'm like, hey, this
is really expensive for me.
Uh, can you start giving me, youknow, a hundred dollars every
time I do this?
Well, suddenly it's like, well,we could just stop doing it
because I don't see the value init.
But if you were to say then,like, oh, but it is really
valuable, well, suddenly it'slike, well, you haven't shown me
(16:33):
that it's valuable, so why am Igonna give you the money?
So, how can we make it valuableto the vendor?
And that's the conversation thatI've started to have.
And it's been a lot of work.
Uh one of it is asking forfeedback.
So, one thing that I've learnedfrom retailers is that they are
always talking with theircustomers and they are always
(16:56):
figuring out what is going well.
You all probably know betterthan anybody what is going to be
successful at your at your shop.
And that's what's always sofunny is that a lot of times
vendors are saying to retailers,this is going to be so good,
like this product is going to beso successful at your short uh
(17:19):
shop.
When it to me, I'm almost like,I think you're kind of out of
place.
Like the retailer knows what isactually going to sell because
you're the one that can look atwhat has sold for the last one
year, five years, a hundredyears, and tell them, yeah, like
this is gonna be successful,this is not going to be
successful.
Granted, there might be someinsights about the future when
(17:42):
it comes to like upcomingtrends, but even still, I feel
like trends are different fordifferent parts of the country
and for different, you know,industries or uh spaces.
I think it's like you knowbetter than everybody.
So, like when it comes to thevalue, what can we offer?
And for me, I think one of thethings is to let vendors know
(18:02):
which retailers are doing reallywell and for them.
And one of the things that Iwant to allow is have vendors
have the insight to see, ah,this retailer gets tons of
traffic online and is doing sowell and is uh your products are
getting tons of traffic um fromthem, not just in general,
(18:24):
because that's not theirbusiness if you are doing well
uh online.
It's more like if your products,if their products are doing well
on your site, that's the kind ofinformation that then maybe this
vendor could prioritize you alittle bit more and say, like,
hey, like, why are you doing sowell online with our products?
Like, let's let's talk about it.
(18:45):
What are you doing right?
How can we service you better?
And then suddenly therelationship is more in depth
and there's value to it.
The other type of information Ithink that would be really good
is providing information aboutwhat products are doing well
across all websites.
So some of these retailers havelike, you know, 50 or 100 or 250
(19:10):
uh retailers that are subscribedto them.
Well, those retailers get apretty diverse in and broad
range of shoppers.
But if a couple of products aregetting a lot of clicks and are
selling pretty well off a coupleof retailer sites, well,
shouldn't they know?
Right?
I think that that's theinteresting part is I feel like
(19:32):
if um you know one of ourvendors can find out that this
product, their uh, you know,three-stone engagement ring gets
tons of clicks and tons ofwishless ads, well, something is
something is good about thatproduct, right?
That's kind of an easyestimation.
So to me, I think if we can justmake it so that that information
(19:54):
is available to a vendor, thensuddenly that vendor is seeing
some value in the relationshipwith us and to the retailer.
And when we position ourselvesthere, like a crossroads, well,
suddenly you can direct traffic.
You know, you get to say, like,hey, this is going well, or this
is not going well, or hey, canyou give us a little bit of
(20:17):
money to cover our costs?
And that whole data is the newgold um idea, that's from the
2010s.
But I think it's still true.
It's just you gotta stick andmove about what products are
doing, uh, about uh how youleverage that data.
And I think it's fascinatingbecause we're working with some
of the biggest vendors in theworld.
(20:39):
Uh, you know, Stular and uhAjaffee and Quality Gold and uh
Viragio and Royal Chain andRembrandt Charms, all these, all
these folks, man.
And I I love their jewelry, butsome of them uh it's almost like
they haven't been asked uh orthey haven't put the time in yet
(21:00):
to work on their data, and someof them have.
And it's so fascinating, likethe discrepancy where like some
people have incredible data andsome people have not good data.
So to me, it's about normalizingand standardizing this uh data
in relationship as best as I canand taking it from like an
(21:22):
operations and systemsstandpoint, and that's what I'm
trying to do.
I've been leading the overhaulof this department since April,
and we're starting to see somechanges.
Uh it's so funny, it works soit's so slow getting this stuff
done because every single step,it's like you can't just say,
(21:45):
hey, vendors should start payingmoney.
To me, it's like, okay, why whyare they gonna pay the money?
You know, you can't just say,hey, give us money, because
they'll just say no, and thenthey'll leave, you know?
It's like, okay, what can weoffer them to make them pay us
money?
Well, we can outline a couplefeatures and you gotta ask them,
hey, what features would youmost want?
(22:05):
And then they tell you, but theydon't tell you, hey, we want a
way to upload marketing imagesfor all of our uh all of our
clients.
We want, they they say, we wannawe do marketing campaigns.
Can you make it so that likeevery retailer can access them?
Okay, how do we make that work?
And then suddenly it's like yougotta go so many steps back and
(22:27):
work on it together.
And it's been fun, it's beenstressful, but it's been fun.
And I gotta give a lot ofshout-outs to Ross and Brian at
Punchmark because you knowthey're my my partners in this
thing.
And getting things started isthe scary part.
But once we get things uh, youknow, flying, you know, let's
(22:49):
say we get vendors to, you know,be more invested and we build
this system that makes it sothat vendors are really leaning
in.
Well then, and retailershopefully are more happy because
they have more products andbetter products on their
website, and maybe they'remaking more sales and things
look better and they have morerobust uh data points for their
(23:10):
products.
Well, everything nothing justflops out of the sky.
Everything requires a little bitof extra, you know, effort and
information and you knowprocess.
And I think that that's one ofthose things that I've been
successful in in the past.
And if, you know, the past isanything to look at, then I'll
hopefully be successful in this,you know, upcoming era.
(23:32):
How will this impact you?
Well, I'm hoping to get thisthing done by the end of the
year.
I'm hoping that in the end ofthe year we'll get a lot of the
vendor overhaul done.
And then starting next year,I'll be able to go to a bunch of
jewelry shows and talk tovendors and get them to really
buy in on the process.
(23:53):
And then who knows where we gofrom there?
You know, once they're really inand we can have retailers and
vendors like, you know what Imean, like talking to each
other, we don't have to play thegame of telephone.
We don't have to be in themiddle, hey, the retailer said
your data is bad, you know, yourproducts are out of date.
And then the vendor says, okay,here's the new data.
(24:14):
And then we say to the retailer,uh, hey, the data is up to date.
Instead, if we were to have itso that retailers could say,
Hey, how come your new line ofuh of jewelry isn't in the
premium vendor program?
They'd be like, Oh, let's addthat.
They add it, and then theretailer understands that.
If that's the case, thensuddenly everyone's happier and
(24:35):
more human together.
Okay, that was a long, complexthought that I've been thinking
about for the last pretty longwhile.
And I've been trying my best touh keep it under wraps because
it's just not done yet.
And I sometimes worry aboutsharing things that are not yet
done.
But this one, to me, it'stalking about it from like a a
(24:57):
data and infrastructureperspective that makes it kind
of interesting.
I've talked about it with myfriends that are not at
Punchmark, where I'm likeexplaining how we have to offer
value and get people to buy in,and then we can make, you know,
more strategic steps from there.
And pretty much everybody thinksit's very interesting that it's
(25:17):
you know this complex thoughtand we're flipping something on
its head that's never been donebefore.
And I figured I would share itbecause that's what in the
loop's about.
It's about sharing, you know,interesting stories and topics
that we're working on thathopefully impact jewelry stores
and the jewelry industry um on aon a large basis.
(25:40):
So that's what I'm working on.
Overhauling the vendor program.
If you have any questions or anyfeedback about the vendor
program, do reach out.
Michael at punchmark.com.
I'd love to talk with you andhear your thoughts.
Definitely open it up.
(26:00):
Alright, everybody, that's theend of the show.
Thanks so much for listening.
This week was a solo episode,and this episode was brought to
you by Punchmark.
This episode was hosted by me,Michael Burpo, and edited by
Paul Suarez with music by RossCochran.
Don't forget to rate the podcaston Spotify and Apple Podcasts,
and leave us feedback onpunchmark.com slash loop.
(26:23):
That's L-O-U-P-E.
Thanks, we'll be back next week,Tuesday, with another episode.
Cheers.
Bye.
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