Michelle Graff, editor-in-chief of National Jeweler, shares insights on unprecedented industry challenges including record-high gold prices and fluctuating tariffs. The jewelry industry faces a period of uncertainty that feels even more unpredictable than the pandemic era.
We cover National Jeweler's impressive 120-year legacy, what stories in the jewelry industry she feels are underserved, and filtering "news" from "noise" every day.
To get more from National Jeweler, visit nationaljeweler.com and select "Subscribe" in the top right to receive their daily newsletter and webinar information.
Send feedback or learn more about the podcast: punchmark.com/loupe
Learn about Punchmark's website platform: punchmark.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Welcome to In the Loop.
Well, they're kind of, for me,my source of news about the
jewelry industry.
They have two print issues thatcome out monthly.
They also have a dailynewsletter.
That is how I get a lot of mynews.
They have a lot of articles notjust about the state of play
for, you know, the jewelry andlarger economic scale, but also
(00:47):
a lot of fashion pieces as wellas news about security and
safety for jewelers.
They really are kind of thenews source, at least for me.
And speaking with Michelle,she's extremely plugged in to
the state of play for thejewelry industry and getting a
chance to talk with her wasreally cool because it allowed
me to ask a lot of the questionsthat I've always had that I
never had a expert to inquirewith.
(01:07):
So speaking with her it wasreally cool.
We talked a lot about tariffs,we talked a lot about the price
of gold and how that might havewider implications, and we also
talked about the history ofNational Jeweler, which is
turning 120 years old this year.
So it's a real kind of a pillarof the community.
So I hope you enjoyed thisconversation and we'll be back
next week, tuesday, with anotherepisode.
(01:29):
Cheers.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
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Speaker 1 (02:29):
And now back to the show.
What is up, everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo.
I'm joined by Michelle Graff,the editor-in-chief at National
Jeweler.
How are you doing today,Michelle?
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Well, thank you.
We're recording this on aFriday and it's 80 degrees here
in New York City, so I'm verywell, thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Oh, that's amazing.
It's a balmy 64 up in upstateNew York but it's black as night
out.
So I wanted to ask you a littlebit about National Jeweler
before we jump into, like, thecurrent state of affairs and
everything You've been with himfor I think I was looking on
your LinkedIn 18 years andyou've been editor in chief for
(03:14):
nearly 12.
Can you talk to me first of allhow National Jeweler has
evolved in that time and alsosort of how you see the probably
had a chance to see theindustry evolve as well?
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Oh for sure.
So when I started at NationalJewelry, it was late 2007.
So I got in just before theGreat Recession and at that time
we were and National Jewelry is, just so everybody knows going
to celebrate 120 years next year.
Next year is our 120thanniversary, which is incredible
(03:46):
for any media in the currentlandscape.
But when I started there, wewere a print publication and we
did have our daily newsletter,but we were still 10 times a
year, so 10 months out of theyear we had a print issue.
And the way it worked when Ifirst started is we worked on
the newsletter in the morningand then the afternoon after
lunch was completely devoted tothe print issue.
(04:06):
And the way it worked when Ifirst started is we worked on
the newsletter in the morningand then the afternoon after
lunch was completely devoted tothe print product.
I'm not going to get the datesexactly right, but somewhere
along the way I'm going to saymaybe it was about 2013.
We went fully online.
Only we had a digital magazinefor a little bit.
We kind of experimented withthat.
And then in 2015, jewelers ofAmerica bought National Jeweler
(04:28):
from Emerald, which is thecompany that owns the Couture
show, the antique shows.
When I joined National Jeweler,we were owned by the same
company that owned Couture andthe JA New York show.
Then Jew jewelers americabought us and a couple years
after that purchase we broughtback our two flagship print
(04:48):
issues.
Everybody is very familiar withthe state of the majors, which
is the listing of the biggestjeweler sellers in the in north
america, and it also contains uhstories about state.
You know, the state of coloredstones, the state of fashion,
the state of diamonds, the stateof retail stones, the state of
fashion, the state of diamonds,the state of retail, and then
(05:09):
our other flagship publicationis the Retailer Hall of Fame
State of the Majors will be outin the next couple of weeks.
We publish that each May beforethe shows and the Retailer Hall
of Fame will come out in October.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
That's so cool.
They sound like they have avery distinct kind of
personality each, as well as thedigital newsletter.
Do you feel sometimes like youhave to be like a parent that
has to have equal appreciationfor each of them, or does one
have a very special spot in yourheart?
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Well, I don't want to say I have a favorite.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Not to put you on the spot.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
I don't want to say I have a favorite child.
They're just both verydifferent, right?
Like the stories we do online,it's short.
They're shorter, it's breakingnews.
You know, we're just.
You know, sometimes we havelonger stories online that we
work on in over a couple of days.
Sometimes we're just kind oflike you know, this happened
today, there was you know thiscrime or this lawsuit or
something, and you know we justturn it around pretty quickly,
(06:05):
whereas the print publicationwe're working on for months.
And I like them both fordifferent reasons.
So I don't, I don't have afavorite.
I mean, I I used to work at adaily newspaper.
That was my first job injournalism, after well, second
job in journalism after Igraduated from college.
So I don't mind the kind ofdaily grind, because that's what
(06:25):
we were doing in a dailynewspaper too, and that's
actually part of the reason Iwas hired here.
They were looking for somebodybecause they just started this
newsletter.
They were looking for somebodywith daily newspaper experience.
So I like them both fordifferent reasons.
And you're right, they are verydifferent.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
So let's talk about.
You've been in this industryfor um, for quite a while.
You've seen things change anduh, I guess, eerily you came in
when we were going through thefirst recession that I can
remember and uh, as well, I meanI like to see, I've been here
for eight years now it will beeight years next month and in
(07:00):
that time I've seen, I think, alot of attitudes shift towards a
towards a lot of things.
I of seeing, over the course ofyou know your tenure in this
(07:28):
industry kind of the rise andfall of several different things
.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
it seems like Well, I think I mean the biggest change
for everything in the worldfrom 2017.
Right now, the base of all thechange is technology.
Right?
Technology has changed how wecommunicate.
It has changed how the right.
Technology has changed how wecommunicate, it has changed how
the world works and it haschanged how products are sold.
So with the rise of technology,obviously you know you've seen
(07:53):
a lot of changes in the industry.
Business models have changedand I mean that at its core is
the biggest change, two thingsthat we point out, like
obviously, like jewelers haveadopted, they've gotten websites
, they're active on social media.
But it's also changeddistribution, right, because now
you have suppliers who areessentially competing against
(08:13):
the retailers selling online.
And when first I remember thiswhen brands that traditionally
sold in jewelry stores firststarted selling online, it was a
big deal and it was always newsand it was always you know, you
know you get a lot of clicks onthose stories because it was
like you know, x brand is nowselling online.
But I think that's kind of youknow, I don't it's not that
(08:34):
people like it, but I think it'sit's kind of expected now.
And also you've had this kindof rise of independent designers
, which has been fantastic tosee particularly more women
independent designers.
And you've seen, you know, nowanytime there's a designer, it's
kind of understood like, yeah,you're going to stock this
designer and they're going tosell in the store, but they also
have their own e-commerce siteand, honestly, it works.
(08:57):
But it was such a big deal atfirst when any kind of somebody
that had traditionally been avendor, a brand that was B2B,
went D2C.
But that's become less of a bigdeal now.
The other evolution I've seenand I've loved this one I love
to see how jewelers,particularly independent
jewelers, have really embracedtechnology.
(09:17):
I remember at first, like BlueNile was like the boogeyman and
that was.
You know, everyone hated BlueNile and there was all this
argument about well, people know, everyone hated Blue Nile and
there was all this argumentabout, well, people aren't going
to buy diamonds online, they'renot going to buy expensive
jewelry online and they do.
They do.
I mean, a lot of people stillcome in the store to do it, to
buy it, but they do buy online.
But you know, jewelers havegotten in now.
(09:39):
They've gotten good websitesand I'd love to see how they've
adopted social media.
You know, I remember whenFacebook first started and
Instagram, there were all thesestories about oh, jewelers are
behind, jewelers are behind,jewelers are behind, and we were
.
We were behind as an industry,but I feel like we've kind of
caught up and when I we all talkabout this in the office all
(09:59):
the time when TikTok came onlineand started to get big, I
thought a lot of jewelers werereally quick to jump on it and
to start doing reels and it'samazing to see.
I think a lot of people probablylearned their lesson the first
time around.
I remember going to seminarsand education sessions, at shows
and at, you know, ajs Conclave.
People would always ask thequestion well, I'm not going to
(10:21):
sell anything through socialmedia, what's the point of being
there?
Like, I'm not going to sellanything?
And it's like well, you'rethere to like, get people's
attention.
You're there to make your brand, you're there to be seen.
Like what?
Maybe what you sell throughthere is minimal, but it still
makes a difference.
And I think people finally likegot that this time around.
And I think, too, obviously thepandemic played a big role in
that, because the pandemicprobably did weed out some
(10:44):
people who, just you know,refused to get on that train.
Absolutely there was no otherway to do it.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
I definitely think that the people who a lot of the
people who were reluctant toadopt technology and modern
selling and things like that, orjust to have more of an
omnichannel experience A lot ofthem, yeah did have to either
(11:12):
decide if they were going toadapt really suddenly or they
went the way of the dodo duringthe pandemic.
But even in my time, when Istarted in 2017, punchbox was
not taken seriously when it cameto e-commerce, even though we
had a couple of stores that weredoing well, it was absolutely
not the norm, and a lot ofjewelers even scoffed at the
idea, thinking like, oh, whywould I miss the opportunity at
(11:35):
clienteling and encouragingpeople to come to my store so I
can build that relationship withthem?
If I sell online, then it'slike I sell the item, but the
relationship ends there.
But now I think jewelers haveseen it.
Most jewelers have made atleast one online sale in the
past and they realized, hey,free money is just as good as
(11:56):
regular money.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
A sale is a sale.
And look, having a websitethat's e-commerce and that's
easily searchable and well done,I think it makes a huge
difference because somebodycould come in your store and see
something and then maybe like,oh, do I have some?
Like I do this.
Sometimes I go in a store and Isee something.
I'm like, do I have somethingat home?
Like do I really need this?
And I go home and think aboutit and a couple of days later,
(12:19):
if I'm still like, oh, I reallywant that pair of jeans or that
dress, I'll go home and buy itonline.
But you know, maybe I don'tfeel like running back out to
the store, Like it just givespeople an option to be able to
access your inventory 24 seven,and maybe they start their
journey online and come in.
Maybe they come in and they goback online and and make the
purchase there.
But why?
Why wouldn't you give them theopportunity?
(12:41):
I just think, as a business,honestly, anymore if you don't
have e-commerce, you look kindof suspect.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
I agree, I'm totally with you.
Actually, the episode beforethis one is literally titled why
Now is a Good Time to Turn onE-Commerce.
So I think we're hitting itright on the head.
But the main, biggest thing Iwanted to bring you on for
Michelle is, as someone who'svery plugged into, I guess, the
state of play when it comes tojewelry and I must admit I'm not
(13:08):
fully understanding everythingon a global scale it sometimes
does kind of kick outside mycoverage.
I wanted to ask about this sortof state of uncertainty that
sometimes is just in the economyin general, but also
specifically in the jewelryindustry.
Unfortunately, it comes at theresult of you penned a piece on
(13:32):
tariffs and then I reached outto you.
I was like hey, I loved yourpiece on tariffs, I thought it
was really interesting, I wouldlove to talk about them.
And then you're like okay,let's talk about them.
And then 20 minutes later itwas like oh no, they're paused.
So it seems like every otherday they're paused and they're
back on.
They're paused as of right now,may 2nd 2025, are the tariffs
(13:55):
on or are they off right now?
Speaker 3 (13:57):
So here's what happened.
So we're going to go.
It's actually exactly a monthnow.
I'm going to flip back in thecalendar here.
So on April 2nd there wasannouncement about the slate of
so-called reciprocal tariffs.
That included, you know, highrates on countries like India,
thailand, vietnam, sri Lanka,botswana, like a lot of
(14:20):
countries that are very key tothe jewelry trade, and there was
reciprocal tariffs.
And there was also, on anycountry that for which there was
not listed a higher reciprocaltariff, there was a baseline
tariff of 10% across the board.
That baseline tariff, I believe, went into effect on April 5th.
So this press conference tookplace on April 2nd.
(14:42):
These tariffs were announced OnApril 5th.
The baseline of 10% went intoeffect.
Then the following week it wasexactly a week later, on April
9th the reciprocal tariffs wentinto effect at 12.01 am Eastern
time.
So the minute it hit Wednesdaythe 9th in the United States,
(15:03):
and then about 1, 1.30 thatafternoon it was announced that
the reciprocal tariffs werepaused, but this baseline of 10%
remains in effect across theboard.
Now the country excluded fromthis and I think everybody knows
about this because it is in thenews absolutely every single
day is China, and China, whereobviously there's a back and
(15:23):
forth with China.
People called it a trade war.
There's a back and forth withChina and China, where obviously
there's a back and forth withChina.
People called it a trade war.
There's a back and forth withChina and so the tariffs on
Chinese goods are much higher,but nobody.
We actually just did a piece.
Lauren McElmore, who is myassociate editor, who covers the
Jemston market, just did apiece and she was interviewing
Jeff Mason with Mason K Jade andhe is just, he just got a
(15:45):
shipment from China and we wereasking him we're like so the
tariffs are 145%, right, andhe's like I don't know exactly
like it's.
It's higher for some productand what we've understood from
research is higher for someproducts, lower for some
products.
He said he wasn't, it was, hewas waiting for like some
repairs and a custom order fromChina and he's like I'm not
exactly sure how they're goingto tax this.
(16:07):
So also just to be clear, soeverybody understands a tariff
is a tax and the tax is paid bythe person importing it into the
United States.
It's not paid by the countryfrom whence it's coming, and I
think sometimes there'sconfusion about that.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
But also in your article about the initial
tariffs, which I'm not going tosay became obsolete but it
became altered shortly after youpublished it.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
No, I'm not saying that.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
No, yeah, but the one thing that was interesting was
you were giving examples behind,like, okay, if a gemstone is
mined here and then it's cuthere, the tariff is this much,
and then it's cut here, thetariff is this much, and I
needed like a flow sheet.
It was so there's so many rulesand exceptions and then if it
goes through China, god forbid,and suddenly you're paying out
(16:54):
the nose.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
It was crazy to me.
So there's this whole thingcalled substantial
transformation, and I firstbecame aware of substantial
transformation.
This first came up a few yearsago when the sanctions were put
on Russian diamonds and therewas a whole issue of substantial
transformation which refers to.
So we'll just give it injewelry terms as an example.
I'm a company and I mine mydiamonds in Botswana.
(17:20):
These diamonds are mine inBotswana, so they're rough
diamonds, right, but they'resent to India to be cut and
polished.
So what happens in India?
When the rough diamond is cutand polished and becomes a
faceted diamond, the kind ofdiamond you see in tennis
necklaces and engagement rings,it's then considered to be quote
substantially transformed andit becomes a product of India
(17:44):
and then it is subject to thetariff of India, not the tariff
of Botswana.
So that's kind of the biggestquestion we were getting.
Like what if the diamond's minehere and it's cut here and it's
set here and that is where itis considered to be
substantially transformed isthen becomes its country of
origin and that is the tariffthat is applied and in that case
(18:04):
, the tariff I don't have theexact rates in front of me, but
I believe the tariff on Indiawas maybe 29% and the tariff on
Botswana was maybe 36.
I'm just throwing out numbershere.
I'm not exactly sure.
I'd have to look, but that isthe tariff on India actually
would be better in that case,because they have a low tariff
(18:24):
rate.
Now, what's going to happen in90 days from now?
Are these tariffs going to beunpaused and go into effect as
they were introduced?
I can't tell you that.
I don't know at all.
India, interestingly, which iswhere 90% of the world's
diamonds are cut, was one of thefirst countries to come forward
(18:45):
and try to negotiate, and Ihave heard I was speaking with
an analyst a couple of weeks agowho said he thinks India is
going to be one of the countriesthat gets cut a deal which is,
for the jewelry industry, goodnews on many levels.
But of course there's a lot ofdifferent moving parts.
That doesn't solve everything,but that is where we are right
now.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
It that doesn't solve everything, but that is where
we are right now.
It's fascinating.
That's exactly what I wascurious about.
But also in the same point islike, for example, with China
there's a lot more trade throughChina than I had really kind of
known about, and the fact thatthat I mean what is it like?
Speaker 3 (19:19):
120%, that is like-, 145%, 145%, we're not exactly
sure how this is being assessed,like we try to get an answer
from somebody we justinterviewed.
He's like I don't know yet I'mnot clear how these things are
taxed, particularly.
And I'd also point out thatindustry organizations Jewelers
America, who owns us, and theAmerican Gem Trade Association,
(19:40):
are lobbying for exemptions forthings we do not and cannot make
here.
You know diamonds, sri Lankansapphires, colombian emeralds,
you know emeralds from Zambia orgems from Tanzania or Kenya.
You know things we cannot makehere.
So that's also happening.
So there's a lot of balls up inthe air right now.
So I think there's kind of twokind of avenues of uncertainty.
(20:05):
There's the uncertainty on thetrades part, like we're talking
to a lot of designers ahead ofthe tour show and the JCK show
in Las Vegas and they're like Idon't know how to price things.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, that's the question.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
What's the replacement cost for this piece
going to be, this gemstone, thisgold?
It's made here.
You know they don't know how toprice things.
Plus the price of gold, they'rehaving to raise the prices
anyway.
I mean, what is it today?
3200, almost 3300.
I think it went down a littlebit today.
I think it was 34 earlier inthe week, but um, so they don't.
You know they're unsure how toprice things.
(20:37):
I think international vendorsare unsure about coming about,
how much it's going to cost themto bring their goods in, how
they can bring their goods in,what they need to bring their
goods in.
And then you also have, like,if there's consumer uncertainty,
if people aren't sure what it'sgoing to cost them, is that
going to have an effect?
Probably not at the high, highend, but is that going to have
(20:59):
some effect on jewelry sales?
You know, if you're looking at,well, I need to get a new car,
or I need new appliances, or youknow I need this for my kids or
whatever, and you're going tohave everything's going to cost
you twice as much.
Like are you going to have.
You know, I love jewelry butit's not.
It's not something like a caror food that's necessary.
(21:22):
It's a luxury and it's you know,if people's disposable income
takes a hit, I don't know wherethat's going to leave us.
So I mean, these are what wedon't, let's the thing we don't
know.
So it's all these kind of like.
I know, I don't know that I'veever faced a period where it's
just there's just so much up inthe air, like this feels more up
in the air to me than thepandemic did.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Wow, and that was one of the, I mean one of the
articles off National Jewelrywas consumer confidence is at a
pandemic level lows, and it'swild to me to think back to that
period of time where thereasons felt more, it's terrible
to say, but like more tangible,like why are things costing
(22:06):
more?
Or like why is is my confidencethat something is going to be
like successfully delivered tomy door in the state that I
expected, uh, it's because of,like, all these things related
to, like this, you know, illness, but at the same time, um, this
it feels so like is it going tocome to pass?
I mean, we, like you said, wehave another 60 days before we
(22:28):
know the answer.
Unfortunately, jck is, you know, going to be right inside of
that mark.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yeah, that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
How does it be?
Speaker 3 (22:37):
better for the industry if we had even if they
were bad answers, if we had somekind of answers before this.
But we don't.
That's the thing.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
So I don't know.
Do you think that that, like on, can we go?
Speaker 3 (22:49):
back to consumer confidence for one second.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
You know the interesting.
So every month we've put on theconference board consumer
confidence.
I don't know that always gelswith consumer spending.
Sometimes it feels like they'resaying, oh, consumer confidence
is down, but people are stillout there spending.
But this is now five months ina row that it has been down.
And you know the thing, if youread the story, what it said
basically was like people don'tfeel so bad currently about
(23:14):
right now.
And in fact I was justlistening to NPR this morning
and they were saying you know,the most recent jobs report was
good and unemployment's low, sopeople don't feel so stressed or
concerned about their currentsituation.
But people's outlook about whatthings are going to look like
six months from now is poor andmaybe that'll change.
Like I said, we don't, you know, I just don't know.
(23:36):
Maybe the whole reciprocaltariff thing will I don't want
to say go away, but be resolved.
Maybe there'll be agreementswith some country.
Maybe there'll be exemptionsfrom gemstones Like we don't
know.
But you know people are nervousand people don't like
uncertainty and you know stockmarkets don't like it either and
(23:56):
that's why the markets havebeen so up and down, which a lot
of jewelers will tell you too,affects their consumers buying.
There was one year it might'vebeen 2019.
It was pre-pandemic, for surewhere everyone was having a
super strong year and then thestock market tanked right before
Christmas and I remember somany jewelers saying like they
(24:17):
had a terrible Christmas.
It was like it had been a fineyear and then it ended on a
terrible note.
You know, on the flip side,everybody was so scared when the
pandemic started that nobodywould buy jewelry, and jewelry
sales absolutely flourished in2020, 2021 into 2022.
People had they weren't goinganywhere, you know, instead of
like taking this anniversarytrip, they got a nice piece of
(24:39):
jewelry that had lots ofdisposable income and, you know
jewelry makes you feel good, sopeople were buying it.
So Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Do you think, though, that these increased costs on
as a result of tariffs?
There's been a lot ofdiscussions in a lot of the
online forums talking aboutshould the cost and the increase
in prices be passed to theretailer, to the consumer,
should they be split between themanufacturer and the vendor?
(25:08):
Or, if you had to make aprediction, who's going to end
up having to pay more?
Is it all parties involved, oris someone in the middle going
to just be able to say, hey,prices are more, so I'm just
going to charge that much more,and it kind of just washes over
them more or less?
Speaker 3 (25:25):
I mean, I think it's going to depend on the industry
and where the margins lie right,like if you're selling
something that's, you know,basically sold on a name, like
I'm not going to say a companyname specifically, but let's
just talk about some of thislike like athletic wear, like
yoga pants, some of this stuffis like outrageously priced for
(25:46):
what it is.
I think so in that case I wasactually I actually was at
Pilates this morning thinkingabout this.
In that case I would say,probably, if I was that company,
that brand, I might try to eata lot of that myself and go down
on my margins a little bit,because I'm already charging
people so much for this product.
I already have this massivemargin.
(26:08):
You know I'm charging, you knowX amount of dollars for these
yoga pants that cost me $2 tomake.
Make.
Do you see what I'm saying?
I am yeah, and it's hard to seehow, when you have something
that's like a premium product,like that, how you could raise
prices anyway.
But I don't know, maybe youcould and people would still buy
because it's your name and theyhave money and they like your
product.
But I think it's really gonna.
(26:29):
It's really gonna depend on theindustry and who, who has the
margin to be able to do it.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
I see, and the jewelry industry.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
You know I was wondering.
It's going to be hard because,like I said, people are already
going to.
We've already got threenotifications from brands saying
we're raising our pricesbecause of the gold prices, like
haven't even commented on thetariffs yet, but saying we're
raising prices because of goldprices.
So I don't know, but how much?
(26:58):
And if you're a retailer, howmuch price elasticity do you
think you have with yourconsumer?
Like how much could you raiseprices before people start
buying and you start losingconsumers?
And I guess that depends onwhich end of the market you're
in and like can yourmanufacturer take a little bit?
Can everybody take a little bit?
Can the manufacturer eat alittle bit?
The retailer eat a little bitand then raise prices a little
(27:20):
bit?
I don't know.
But it's like I said, it's alsogoing to depend on where you
get your products or materialsand what kind of tariff that
particular country, the importsfrom that particular country,
face.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
And that was tying really well into, for example,
with talking about gold.
So I had a mutual friend ofours, david Siminsky, on a
couple of weeks ago.
We were talking all about whyis the price of gold so high and
he was explaining all thesefactors and it was very
fascinating.
But one thing he mentioned isthat when gold had spiked in the
(27:57):
past, then a lot of the timesconsumers don't really, I guess,
pay attention to that as muchas you might expect.
When you just say like, hey,price of gold is up when they go
to do a custom jewelry piece,they just understand that that
is what they're paying.
They don't have like the.
It's like arguing the price ofgas in a construction project.
(28:19):
Suddenly it's like, oh, it'sbaked into it and it's more kind
of inside of the project.
However, increasingly I mean,the price of gold is setting all
time highs every single day.
It seems like it just hit 3,500a few days ago and I was like,
oh, surely it won't go anyhigher than that.
(28:39):
It recedes a little bit andthen who knows where it's going
to go for the rest of the year.
You've been around for a littlewhile following this.
What similarities can you draw?
Any historical similarities towhat is going on with gold and
how it might kind of impactretailers.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Yeah, I mean the gold is in historic size, like
everyone knows this.
It's never been this much.
You know, I've been thinkingabout this lately, the kind of
like history of metals, if youwill, in the brief time I've
been in the industry.
So, like I said, I came in justbefore the recession and when
the recession was really tough.
The recession hit the hit thisindustry hard.
(29:17):
I remember there being likevery lean years at national
jeweler, very lean years forjewelers.
The shows were pared down and Iremember that silver had a huge
bump during that period andthat's also kind of.
When Pandora took off in theUnited States and there was, I
mean, everybody was makingsilver collections and silver
(29:38):
was huge.
And then you know, so whitemetal people were into white
metal, but silver basicallybecause in this time too, the
price of platinum was higher.
For for as long as I canremember, the price of platinum
has been higher than the priceof gold.
Um, that's not the case anymore, but it was for a long time.
So silver was really in andthen, um, and then I don't know
(30:00):
when it would have started, butstarting maybe somewhere around,
like maybe 2013, 2012.
Um, you started to see in.
It became as more as a fashiontrend that people were really
getting back into yellow gold.
I would also say, like, at thetime that silver was very
popular, yellow gold itself waskind of out of fashion, Like you
(30:22):
didn't see it as much and youwould have never seen yellow
gold in a bridal piece.
I'm going to make a reference toa television show.
There was an episode of Sex andthe City where Harry got an
engagement ring she did not likefrom Aiden and she was, you
know, describing to the otherwoman other women how terrible
she thought it was and she waslike it was this kind of diamond
with a gold band and they'reall like yes.
(30:45):
And then one of her friends islike you wear yellow gold.
She's like yeah, but it's likefake gold for fun, or whatever.
She said she's like this is myengagement ring.
Like when I first started inthe industry, everybody had a
white metal engagement ring,white gold or platinum, and you
know the trend was full metals.
So whether that was white goldor silver, so then silver
(31:05):
obviously obviously was verypopular because it was more
inexpensive and nobody had anymoney during the recession, some
point people started to comeout of it and then, you know,
like I said, the turning back toyellow gold, was it just really
caught on as a fashion trendbefore.
But trends are all cyclical,right?
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
You know people for a long time were only wearing
white metals and nobody wouldhave dreamed of getting engaged
with, you know gasp a yellowgold ring.
But we see a lot of yellow goldand bridal now rose gold at a
moment.
But I think yellow gold's kindof like what we see a lot of now
, including celebrities and soand yellow gold is just the
(31:45):
style for fashion jewelryEverybody yellow gold chains and
tennis necklaces and earringsand you know having four
piercings in each ear and ringslike it's yellow gold is
everywhere.
But interestingly, I have seena little bit of a start of a
tilt back till silver andthere's also we had somebody we
were working on an article abouttrends of the past decade for
(32:06):
our state of the majors issueand some one of the people we
interviewed was saying that shethinks two-tone is going to be
the next big thing.
So gold and silver which if youhave a big piece, it is going to
be the next big thing.
So gold and silver which if youhave a big piece, it's going to
help keep the price down, right, If some of it's silver and
gold and it's not all gold likeand also two-tone has kind of
been out for a while.
Like I said, everything youknow, everything takes its turn
(32:27):
Like people get very obsessedwith one thing for a long time.
Then people you know that kindof goes out of style, that they
get sick of it or whatever, andthe next thing comes in.
So I'd be interested to see howmuch silver we see in Las Vegas
and how much two-tone.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Give us enough time, we'll be back with bell-bottom
jeans, so I definitely-.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
That's another great example.
Like skinny jeans, that was the.
That was the thing for a while.
Like I, when I was in college,everybody was wearing wide leg.
We just called them wide legRight and you know my mom
thought it was funny because shewas like, oh, those are like
bell bottoms you know her time,and then that it was skinny, and
now you see wide leg pantsagain.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
So give it enough time, it will come all the way
back it all it all, it allrotates in and out.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
I think if you ask somebody that was in the
industry, like I mean, I feellike I've been in the industry a
long time but there's so manypeople in this industry twice as
long as me, I mean I thinkthey've probably seen everything
come and go five times.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Yeah, well, that's the thing with that, you know
David was also mentioning isthat during the the great, you
know, the recession, during therecession especially, I think it
was, yeah, 2007, 8, he wastalking about how we buy gold
was this thing and it kept a lotof jewelers doing pretty well
(33:45):
and some of them, some jewelerswere really smart and they saved
the money and they weatheredthe storm and some they treated
themselves with it.
Do you think that that is goingto be kind of a trend we see
come back as well, as jewelersbuying increasingly advertising
that they buy gold and kind ofseeing that as like a way for
jewelers to have I don't want tosay like a utility impact, but
(34:07):
more of like a service that theycan start to add on to their
business models?
Speaker 3 (34:13):
I mean I've seen a little bit here and there on
instagram like jewelers puttingup posts and being like did you
know?
The price of gold is anall-time high, we can buy your
gold.
But I think it seems like it'sbeing done at least on instagram
, in kind of a more tastefulmanner, and it doesn't look.
So you know, we buy gold, bigbanner outside, you know, I mean
(34:34):
it looks like more elegant andluxury?
I think it's probably, but I'veactually I haven't seen or heard
as much of it as I would havethought.
But I also think the price ofgold has just shot up so fast.
You know, it's something Ishould probably talk to jewelers
about in the coming months,like you know, are you, I'm sure
, I'm sure they would and I'msure they will.
(34:55):
I just haven't seen it as much.
You, dave, is right.
It was so prevalent, like itwas every, everywhere, with gold
buying events in the recessionit was everywhere.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
So you mentioned speaking with jewelers.
I was wondering do you havelike a, like a cohort or like a,
a group of jewelers that youspeak with, uh, that provide you
information?
I'm assuming that you know, asbeing editor-in-chief, that
you're not working in a jewelrystore.
Um, apart from attending tradeshows, do you speak with, with a
(35:27):
group of jewelers regularly toto find out what trends are
happening or, uh, what theirkind of the sympathy is in the
industry?
Speaker 3 (35:38):
I don't have a specific group, but I talk to
jewelers all the time and,whether it's like and you, I
also watch what people talkabout online.
You know that you can get a lotof information scrolling
through Facebook or Instagram.
You know just whatconversations are people having.
There's also somebody emailedme recently about something they
were doing and they weretalking about.
This is interesting how theywere doing this particular thing
, because they had been watchingconversations on Reddit.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Interesting.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
You know, right To like see what the conversations
are and that's probably morelike jeweler to consumer, like
jewelers want to see whatconsumers are saying.
But you know I feel like wehave our finger on the pulse.
But I mean, if more people wantto contact me, I'm always happy
to get it.
I did put my email address inthat tariff story which one of
my editors was like are you sureyou want to do that?
(36:23):
That's where I got it but myemail address is at the top of
every story anyway.
If you click my name, itautomatically opens an email to
me.
Little trick.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
But you know I got a lot of emails but you know fair
like I'm trying to get answersfor people, so I guess around
that side type of thing when itcomes to JZK it's coming up.
That's what I am going to bereally paying attention to is I
just started working at agreater capacity with our vendor
partners, so I'm going to trymy hardest to go around and
introduce myself to as many ofthem as I can.
But what's fascinating isjewelers are not just everybody
knows this but jewelers are notjust buying in June for July.
(37:02):
A lot of the times they'rebuying for Christmas right now,
yeah, for Christmas, and whoknows what the world's going to
look like then.
Do you foresee, if you were tomake a prediction on this, do
you think that jewelers aregoing to be more reticent in
like kind of conserving andholding onto their chips if you
(37:23):
will going into JCK because theydon't know where things are
shifting?
Or do you predict that peoplemight see this as a investment
opportunity to get things kindof at a cheaper price point
before they maybe continue goingup and to the right around the
Christmas holidays?
Speaker 3 (37:43):
Boy, that's a really good question.
I don't know, honestly, I don'tknow.
You know, I've been talking.
I met a couple weeks ago withthe designer and he was showing
me his, you know, thecollections he's going to be
rolling out at JCK and I askedhim what he thought.
Or he was rolling out in Vegas,I can't remember which show he
said he was going to, but and hesaid he thought that not that
(38:04):
many people were even going tocome to the shows.
So but I, you know, I don't knowand I don't want to, you know,
cast aspersions on the shows.
We're going to be there andwe're going to be curious to see
what people are buying, howthey're buying, how they're
approaching things, because Ithink everybody has a different
approach and, to be fair to you,everybody kind of has a
different market.
You know, if my customers arekind of more middle income, then
(38:27):
that's a different thing thanif I am in, you know, one am in,
you know, one of the wealthiestcommunities on the East Coast
and all of my customers aremillionaires and billionaires.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
That is a very different, different game to be
playing it's a very differentcustomer.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Yeah, absolutely so you know, I think everybody, I
think you know I would hopeeverybody's going to come with
some kind of plan.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Yeah, I think that's going to be the goal for us.
A big part of it is going to bespeaking with jewelers, and
Punchmark did extra well aroundthe pandemic, essentially
because of not just the rise ofe-commerce and jewelers needed
to rely on their websitesuddenly, but also because there
did seem to be.
(39:10):
Everyone took a moment.
They were like, okay, who isgoing to be the voice of reason
and speak articulately aboutwhat is happening and actually
be leaders, and I think thatwhat we're seeing right now with
uncertainty like we've alreadycovered that there is an
appetite, a growing appetite forleadership and people to kind
(39:32):
of have some type of calmingvoice and people to kind of have
some type of calming voice.
That's how our podcast actuallystarted is.
We started in March 2020 as theJewelers Survival Kit.
That was our original podcastand we were covering how
jewelers could stay on top ofhaving their physical locations
shut down.
And now, as this is coming up,I've started to shift my hardest
(39:53):
into these topical ones, likethe price of gold and
understanding these pricefluctuations, as best I can, but
kind of I can sort of feel likethat's what's going on and I
think that JCK is going to bethe best opportunity I'll have
to really speak with people andtry to listen as best as I can.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
And it's also fair to say like we're still I mean the
shows are a little bit laterthis year we're still like a
month and a week out from theshows.
So I could give you an answertoday, but you know every you
know situations could change infive weeks.
You know our month or howeverlong it is till we're going.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Yep, michelle, we're going to take a quick break and
when we come back I want to talka little bit more about
National Jewelry.
So everybody, stay with us.
Punchmark is so excited toannounce the launch of our email
marketing campaigns craftedspecifically for jewelers.
Take your jewelry storesmarketing to the next level with
(40:51):
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(41:12):
Learn more at punchmarkcom.
Slash email dash marketingAgain, that's punchmarkcom.
Slash email dash marketing.
And now back to the show.
Okay, everybody still speakingwith Michelle Graff from from
(41:35):
national jeweler.
So, michelle, I was justtelling you I, uh, national
jeweler to me is a, is an emailnewsletter.
That's that's what it is for me.
However, uh, you do have theseother um, uh, print media as
well.
I was wondering, when you talkabout national jeweler, what is
like the main kind of focus andreach that you're trying to kind
(41:58):
of convey?
Is it about like these dailyhappenings, like with business,
but are?
Is it about fashion?
How do you kind of viewnational jeweler?
Speaker 3 (42:07):
Well, I think it's so funny that you viewed as a
newsletter, because it's we'regoing to be.
Did I mention already we'regoing to be 120 years old next
year?
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
Like that's incredible.
Like we've been around forlonger.
Jck is a little bit older, jckmagazine and they're a little
bit older, but you know 120years and still be going in this
media landscape is pretty,pretty incredible.
Yeah, so I view it as like whatwe were trying to do on a daily
basis is I get a lot of input,right, I get a lot of emails.
(42:38):
There's a lot of stuff going on.
There's four of us.
There's four of us that do thisevery day.
And what I mean do this?
We do the newsletter, we do allthe social media promotion and
you know we and we write thestories, we size the pictures,
we put together the newsletter,then we're, you know, we're
trying to put it on LinkedIn,we're putting on our Instagram,
we're reels, we have stories.
So it's basically what I'msaying here.
(43:01):
Is this a lot of work?
So I have to be good atnarrowing down this input to
what's important, like what dojewelers really want to hear
about?
Do they need to hear aboutevery little grab and run?
Do they need to hear aboutevery single watch or necklace
that comes up for auction?
No, we try to focus on thethings that are really
(43:21):
interesting or, you know,unusual.
Like they always say, news isthe different and unusual Things
that are interesting, unusualand things that I think would
help jewelers with theirbusiness, like interesting
marketing campaigns other peopleare doing.
You know, obviously we have toreport when one person leaves
here and goes over there.
That's of interest to people.
You know we have a regularslate of columnists.
(43:44):
We have Peter Smith, manuelRahib, lillian Raji, sherry
Smith and God help me, I hopeI'm not forgetting somebody oh
and Jen Cullen Williams, andthey all write for us and they
all have kind of a differentlane and their columns are meant
to be like, very informative.
(44:04):
You know, national jewelers aretrade publication.
When I think of trade, right,you're supposed to be writing
helping people run theirbusiness better.
But when you turn into a dailypublication, you also are a news
organization.
So I try to make it a blend ofboth.
Like here's kind of like what'sgoing on in the space that you
need to know today that'shappening in jewelry or
(44:26):
happening in retail on a largerscale that might impact your
business, and here are also tipsfor running your business.
So that's the way I look at thedaily newsletter and you know I
obviously with news, sometimeswe're going to have the same
story as other tradepublications, but I try not to
do that too much, cause I kindof feel like you know, if X
(44:46):
happened and I didn't see it andthis other person did and it
was in there first, then so beit.
Like people have seen it, Idon't need to re rerun it.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
Is that something that you have to kind of be a
student of the game as well?
You need to be readingeverybody else so that you know
how to differentiate yourself.
That must be kind ofinteresting.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
I mean it's a thousand percent and it's the
same thing I'm sure jewelers do.
If they're in a town, you knowthey don't want to be.
If this jeweler down thestreets the color of stone
expert, and this jeweler overthere is somebody that you is
known for getting you know allthe trendy, hip, new designers,
then you don't necessarily wantto be following exactly what
they're doing.
You know, and sometimes ifthere's breaking news somewhere,
(45:28):
sometimes we do cover itbecause it's like, well, I can't
pretend that story didn'thappen or skip that story.
But you know, sometimes it'slike, well, people have seen
that already.
Like moving on.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
Yeah, on the topic of , you know, smash and grabs and
robberies.
It's a topic that I have.
You know we're 250 episodesinto this.
I've always wanted to do anepisode specifically about
security and robberies andthings like that, because it is
(45:58):
inherently a part of theindustry.
It's not something that peoplelove to discuss that much and
that's one of the reasons why Idon't know how to go about it.
Should I be speaking withsomeone who was just robbed or
had a case that was covered orhas been resolved?
You guys have always coveredthese with a lot of touch, I
(46:20):
might say, or grace, or whateverthat word is, because we don't
want to sensationalize it though.
News can be sensational, youknow can be.
I mean, there's tons of moviesabout, about, robberies and and
about and it's usually from thethief's point of view.
How do you balance that kind ofthat, that topic where it's,
(46:44):
it's educating the public, it's,you know, conveying the
information.
But it's not thatsensationalism which, like,
might be giving kind of almostencouragement to the act.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
Right.
So something to know about me.
When I worked at the DailyNewspaper, I covered crime, so I
used to sit with a policescanner.
This was back in the day.
I used to sit with that.
There's my.
I used to sit with a policescanner at my desk and I had a
list of the police codes and Iwould listen, like you kind of
learned, adopted the skill oflike being able to work on
(47:19):
something while also semilistening to something else, and
your, your kind of got trainedfor like, there was like one
number for murder, one for anarmed robbery, one for a car
accident, one for a car accidentwith fatalities, there was a
number for a plane crash, and soI used to run out and when I
heard, I'd grab a photographerand run out to cover stuff and I
(47:40):
had to cover a lot of,unfortunately, homicides, and I
used to have to go knock onpeople's doors this was a long
time ago again Go knock onpeople's doors and say, hey, you
know this happened here.
Did you see anything?
Did you hear anything Like what?
Can you tell me about thishouse where this happened?
I also had to go talk to a lotof people who had just lost a
(48:04):
loved one.
And that's hard and it givesyou a lot of sympathy for people
who are grieving and it givesyou, like you described it as a
touch, and that kind of is atouch to it.
And I remember when I was doingthis I was probably 23 years
old, I was really young, and Iremember, you know, when I first
used to do it I was scared todeath.
I was scared to death to golike knock on these people's
doors, but I just, you know, youkind of get over it.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:25):
You learn how to do it, and so I think that's
probably part of the reasonwe're good at covering crime is
because it's something I have alot of experience doing, and I
think for jewelers, you have tolook at it as the perspective of
why am I telling people this?
This was also covered on theirlocal news.
It was in their local newspaper.
People posted about it onNextdoor or on Facebook or
(48:48):
whatever.
But we want to point out like,hey, in this situation, this is
what happened.
These are things that couldhave been done differently to
prevent the crime or mitigatethe losses, and that's what we
always try to keep in mind.
And if you want to talk tosomeone about security, call the
Juris Security Alliance.
John Kennedy he just retired.
(49:10):
He was great.
He ran it for years.
Jennifer is doing a great joband they absolutely will help
you.
And anytime they put out abulletin, an alert you know
there was, you know, a massivesafe robbery at XYZ they always
include a list of tips.
You know, don't put your safehere.
You know X1, 2, they justinclude a list of five, six tips
(49:31):
about, like you know, here'swhat this situation happened.
Or, and this is how, like thisis how things could have been
handled differently.
And it's not a way to criticizethe store where it happened.
It's just to say if you'refaced, you know here are things
to think about in your store andyou know it's also good.
Another reason we cover it isif there are people who are if
(49:52):
you will repeat offenders and wehave good pictures of them.
You could say these threepeople have now, you know,
committed smash and grabs orgrab and runs or distraction
thefts that you know stores inthese states.
So if you're kind of in thisradius, be on the lookout for
these individuals.
Speaker 1 (50:09):
Yeah, no, that's a.
I think that that might be theangle is not, again, not
celebrating it, it's more if youcan come at it from an
educational standpoint.
I do think that there isinherent value in that because
it's like, hey, learn from thisyou know tragic incident and
being able to, like, come outthe better from it.
But I do think that, yeah, theway that you guys handle it is
(50:32):
something I hate to say this Iam very interested in it.
It is something that I read thearticles because I do find that
fascinating.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
Well, I mean honestly , almost everybody does Just
look in general like what a biggenre true crime is and you know
I can tell you from ourstandpoint those articles are
some of the most read on thesite.
But you know it's for jewelers,it's universal.
They all have valuable thingsthat people want.
They all have valuable thingsthat are small and portable and
(51:01):
easily moved along and they allhave to think about this.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Yeah, now, as we wrap this up, michelle, I wanted to
ask you are again very pluggedin with the industry, better
than probably anybody that I'vespoken with, and I'm wondering
if there is a topic or a trendor a story that you think should
be getting more air.
(51:25):
For a long time, mine was.
I feel like we don't talkenough about e-commerce and
online and, as I started kind ofbeating the drum, it seems like
jewelers are coming around.
I think that the industry is alittle like you had mentioned
slow, but they do kind of movewith force.
Is there anything from yourperspective that you feel like
(51:47):
is not getting the attention orfocus?
That is going to either be abig story in a few years or is a
big story now, just isn'tgetting the airtime it deserves?
Speaker 3 (51:58):
I don't know if this isn't getting the airtime it
deserves, but I think it'ssomething that's come up in
conversations I've had the lastcouple of weeks and it's kind of
down the pipeline effects thesetariffs could have.
We talked a little bit in thisstory I think I mentioned
Lauren's story about coloredgemstones and tariffs.
She talked a little bit aboutthis, like the effects if
(52:20):
gemstone sales drop because theprices are high, the effects
this is going to have on smallcommunities that really depend
on mining.
I think there's also a thingabout you think about a country
like Botswana, which is, youknow diamonds are huge for their
economy and you know De Beersjust signed this new sales
agreement with them and as partof that sales agreement there's
(52:42):
something called the Diamondsfor Development Fund and a big
piece of that is establishingmore beneficiation in Botswana,
more cutting, more polishing.
So taking the rough out of theground in Botswana and cutting
them, polishing the diamondsthere and just making it one
stop, not sending them toanother country to be cut.
But if tariffs are higher inBotswana than they are where the
(53:02):
diamonds are being cut, that'sgoing to be a problem and the
industry for years has been, youknow, talking about
beneficiation, working oncreating beneficiation, working
on, you know, making sure thecommunities where gemstones and
diamonds are mined arebenefiting from them, and the
tariffs just kind of they'regoing to impact that.
And I also think about, youknow, we actually had just had
(53:24):
this discussion with a group ofjewelers and I think I can't
remember who brought it up, butI think it was a great point.
You know, the industry hasreally in recent years, like so
many other industries, reallyworked on supply chain
transparency and being able tosay, hey, I got this here and it
came from here and it came fromthere, and being able to trace
it back.
And you know that's somethingthat people now this is always
(53:46):
said that younger consumers careabout this.
If you talk to jewelers, there'skind of a mixed response about
this, like how many peopleactually come in and ask where
things are from?
But the industry differentfacets of the industry have
really put a lot of time intothis.
But of the industry have reallyput a lot of time into this.
But if you have these tariffsand it's gonna end up costing
you more if it comes from Xplace than if it comes from X
place, I think you're gonna seea lot of people kind of trying
(54:10):
to skirt around transparencyjust to save money.
And I think that's a real shamebecause we've worked so hard and
so many people have worked sohard and put so much time and
money into making transparentsupply chains in a traditionally
opaque industry, to be honest.
And how's that going to go now?
(54:34):
Yeah it's one of those things ofthe shock of like.
You know, we had thisrelationship with Alrosa and
Russian Diamonds and they putAlrosa to its credit, but so
much time and money and being inleadership and responsible
sourcing and transparency andthen overnight that was gone and
I kind of feel like that wasone big blow for the diamond
(54:55):
industry and this, you know,this is about to be another for
jewelry, kind of like in thebroader sense.
But that's something I think issomething to watch and
something that'll be interestingto keep an eye on.
Speaker 1 (55:07):
There's so many communities and even entire
nations built on, yeah, specific, rare, rare minerals, not just
using jewelry but also usingmanufacturing.
And you know the fact thattransparency for a long time was
kind of I don't want to saylike kind of like relatively
agnostic when it came to thevalue and like the dollars of it
(55:30):
all.
It seemed like it was like, youknow, if you're interested in
it and if it was of value to you, then it is important.
But, like you had mentioned,there are parts of the world
where people don't really seemto put as much care and credence
into that kind of thing.
However, if there's dollars tobe won by obfuscating
transparency, you know and, and,and and, not showing all that
(55:54):
information, I can see howpeople will be taking advantage
of that.
Speaker 3 (55:58):
And if times get tough, if sales are down,
margins are slimmer, prices aregoing up, like I mean I don't
like again, I don't know exactlywhat's going to happen with the
tariffs, but this is somethingsomebody raised this point, and
I think it's a really good one.
Speaker 1 (56:12):
It is really interesting.
Michelle, that's a fascinatingtopic and it will be one that
I'm going to have to follow upon as well.
If people are interested inlearning more about National
Jeweler and maybe getting theirnews delivered to their inbox,
where should they be going?
Where can they learn more?
Speaker 3 (56:29):
So if you go to nationaljewelercom that is our
website On the top rail, on thefar right there is subscribe in
red and you can pick if you wantto get information about our,
if you want to get our dailynewsletter and information about
our webinars, or if you justwant to get one thing, if you
(56:49):
just want to get the newslettersand not the webinars, or just
information about the webinarsand not the newsletter, you can
pick and there's just a littleform there.
You fill out and, like I havealready given myself away, if
you click my name on the website, you can email me.
Speaker 1 (57:02):
Well, michelle, thank you so much for your time.
This is a very excitinginterview for me.
I've, uh, I'm definitely a bigfan of your work and, uh, the
work of National Jeweler.
It's something I follow.
I, like I mentioned, I uh Itake as many of those fun uh
tidbits and I bring them up toour all hands each week and see
if I can wow everybody with myknowledge about the current
(57:23):
state of jewelry.
So I really appreciate you forthat as well.
Thank you so much, everybody.
We'll be back next week,tuesday, with another episode.
Cheers, bye.
Speaker 3 (57:33):
Thank you so much, bye-bye.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
All right, everybody.
That's the end of the show.
Thanks so much for listening.
My guest this week was MichelleGraff, the editor-in-chief at
National Jeweler.
She was fantastic.
I really enjoyed speaking withher.
This episode was brought to youby Punchmark and produced and
hosted by me, michael Burpo.
This episode was edited by PaulSuarez with music by Ross
Cockrum.
Don't forget to rate thepodcast on Spotify and Apple
(58:01):
Podcasts and leave us feedbackon punchmarkcom slash loop.
That's L-O-U-P-E.
Thanks, and we'll be back nextweek, tuesday, with another
episode.
Cheers, bye.
Welcome to In the Loop.
Well, they're kind of, for me,my source of news about the
jewelry industry.
They have two print issues thatcome out monthly.
They also have a dailynewsletter.
That is how I get a lot of mynews.
They have a lot of articles notjust about the state of play
for, you know, the jewelry andlarger economic scale, but also
(00:47):
a lot of fashion pieces as wellas news about security and
safety for jewelers.
They really are kind of thenews source, at least for me.
And speaking with Michelle,she's extremely plugged in to
the state of play for thejewelry industry and getting a
chance to talk with her wasreally cool because it allowed
me to ask a lot of the questionsthat I've always had that I
never had a expert to inquirewith.
(01:07):
So speaking with her it wasreally cool.
We talked a lot about tariffs,we talked a lot about the price
of gold and how that might havewider implications, and we also
talked about the history ofNational Jeweler, which is
turning 120 years old this year.
So it's a real kind of a pillarof the community.
So I hope you enjoyed thisconversation and we'll be back
next week, tuesday, with anotherepisode.
(01:29):
Cheers.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
This episode is brought to you by Punchmark, the
jewelry industry's favoritewebsite platform and digital
growth agency.
Our mission reaches way beyondtechnology.
With decades of experience andlong-lasting industry
relationships, punchmark enablesjewelry businesses to flourish
in any marketplace.
We consider our clients ourfriends, as many of them have
(01:56):
been friends way before becomingclients.
Punchmark's own success comesfrom the fact that we have a
much deeper need and obligationto help our friends succeed.
Whether you're looking forbetter e-commerce performance,
business growth or campaignsthat drive traffic and sales,
punchmark's website andmarketing services were made
just for you.
It's never too late totransform your business and
(02:17):
stitch together your digital andphysical worlds in a way that
achieves tremendous growth andresults.
Schedule a guided demo today atpunchmarkcom.
Slash go.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
And now back to the show.
What is up, everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo.
I'm joined by Michelle Graff,the editor-in-chief at National
Jeweler.
How are you doing today,Michelle?
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Well, thank you.
We're recording this on aFriday and it's 80 degrees here
in New York City, so I'm verywell, thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Oh, that's amazing.
It's a balmy 64 up in upstateNew York but it's black as night
out.
So I wanted to ask you a littlebit about National Jeweler
before we jump into, like, thecurrent state of affairs and
everything You've been with himfor I think I was looking on
your LinkedIn 18 years andyou've been editor in chief for
(03:14):
nearly 12.
Can you talk to me first of allhow National Jeweler has
evolved in that time and alsosort of how you see the probably
had a chance to see theindustry evolve as well?
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Oh for sure.
So when I started at NationalJewelry, it was late 2007.
So I got in just before theGreat Recession and at that time
we were and National Jewelry is, just so everybody knows going
to celebrate 120 years next year.
Next year is our 120thanniversary, which is incredible
(03:46):
for any media in the currentlandscape.
But when I started there, wewere a print publication and we
did have our daily newsletter,but we were still 10 times a
year, so 10 months out of theyear we had a print issue.
And the way it worked when Ifirst started is we worked on
the newsletter in the morningand then the afternoon after
lunch was completely devoted tothe print issue.
(04:06):
And the way it worked when Ifirst started is we worked on
the newsletter in the morningand then the afternoon after
lunch was completely devoted tothe print product.
I'm not going to get the datesexactly right, but somewhere
along the way I'm going to saymaybe it was about 2013.
We went fully online.
Only we had a digital magazinefor a little bit.
We kind of experimented withthat.
And then in 2015, jewelers ofAmerica bought National Jeweler
(04:28):
from Emerald, which is thecompany that owns the Couture
show, the antique shows.
When I joined National Jeweler,we were owned by the same
company that owned Couture andthe JA New York show.
Then Jew jewelers americabought us and a couple years
after that purchase we broughtback our two flagship print
(04:48):
issues.
Everybody is very familiar withthe state of the majors, which
is the listing of the biggestjeweler sellers in the in north
america, and it also contains uhstories about state.
You know, the state of coloredstones, the state of fashion,
the state of diamonds, the stateof retail stones, the state of
fashion, the state of diamonds,the state of retail, and then
(05:09):
our other flagship publicationis the Retailer Hall of Fame
State of the Majors will be outin the next couple of weeks.
We publish that each May beforethe shows and the Retailer Hall
of Fame will come out in October.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
That's so cool.
They sound like they have avery distinct kind of
personality each, as well as thedigital newsletter.
Do you feel sometimes like youhave to be like a parent that
has to have equal appreciationfor each of them, or does one
have a very special spot in yourheart?
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Well, I don't want to say I have a favorite.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Not to put you on the spot.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
I don't want to say I have a favorite child.
They're just both verydifferent, right?
Like the stories we do online,it's short.
They're shorter, it's breakingnews.
You know, we're just.
You know, sometimes we havelonger stories online that we
work on in over a couple of days.
Sometimes we're just kind oflike you know, this happened
today, there was you know thiscrime or this lawsuit or
something, and you know we justturn it around pretty quickly,
(06:05):
whereas the print publicationwe're working on for months.
And I like them both fordifferent reasons.
So I don't, I don't have afavorite.
I mean, I I used to work at adaily newspaper.
That was my first job injournalism, after well, second
job in journalism after Igraduated from college.
So I don't mind the kind ofdaily grind, because that's what
(06:25):
we were doing in a dailynewspaper too, and that's
actually part of the reason Iwas hired here.
They were looking for somebodybecause they just started this
newsletter.
They were looking for somebodywith daily newspaper experience.
So I like them both fordifferent reasons.
And you're right, they are verydifferent.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
So let's talk about.
You've been in this industryfor um, for quite a while.
You've seen things change anduh, I guess, eerily you came in
when we were going through thefirst recession that I can
remember and uh, as well, I meanI like to see, I've been here
for eight years now it will beeight years next month and in
(07:00):
that time I've seen, I think, alot of attitudes shift towards a
towards a lot of things.
I of seeing, over the course ofyou know your tenure in this
(07:28):
industry kind of the rise andfall of several different things
.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
it seems like Well, I think I mean the biggest change
for everything in the worldfrom 2017.
Right now, the base of all thechange is technology.
Right?
Technology has changed how wecommunicate.
It has changed how the right.
Technology has changed how wecommunicate, it has changed how
the world works and it haschanged how products are sold.
So with the rise of technology,obviously you know you've seen
(07:53):
a lot of changes in the industry.
Business models have changedand I mean that at its core is
the biggest change, two thingsthat we point out, like
obviously, like jewelers haveadopted, they've gotten websites
, they're active on social media.
But it's also changeddistribution, right, because now
you have suppliers who areessentially competing against
(08:13):
the retailers selling online.
And when first I remember thiswhen brands that traditionally
sold in jewelry stores firststarted selling online, it was a
big deal and it was always newsand it was always you know, you
know you get a lot of clicks onthose stories because it was
like you know, x brand is nowselling online.
But I think that's kind of youknow, I don't it's not that
(08:34):
people like it, but I think it'sit's kind of expected now.
And also you've had this kindof rise of independent designers
, which has been fantastic tosee particularly more women
independent designers.
And you've seen, you know, nowanytime there's a designer, it's
kind of understood like, yeah,you're going to stock this
designer and they're going tosell in the store, but they also
have their own e-commerce siteand, honestly, it works.
(08:57):
But it was such a big deal atfirst when any kind of somebody
that had traditionally been avendor, a brand that was B2B,
went D2C.
But that's become less of a bigdeal now.
The other evolution I've seenand I've loved this one I love
to see how jewelers,particularly independent
jewelers, have really embracedtechnology.
(09:17):
I remember at first, like BlueNile was like the boogeyman and
that was.
You know, everyone hated BlueNile and there was all this
argument about well, people know, everyone hated Blue Nile and
there was all this argumentabout, well, people aren't going
to buy diamonds online, they'renot going to buy expensive
jewelry online and they do.
They do.
I mean, a lot of people stillcome in the store to do it, to
buy it, but they do buy online.
But you know, jewelers havegotten in now.
(09:39):
They've gotten good websitesand I'd love to see how they've
adopted social media.
You know, I remember whenFacebook first started and
Instagram, there were all thesestories about oh, jewelers are
behind, jewelers are behind,jewelers are behind, and we were
.
We were behind as an industry,but I feel like we've kind of
caught up and when I we all talkabout this in the office all
(09:59):
the time when TikTok came onlineand started to get big, I
thought a lot of jewelers werereally quick to jump on it and
to start doing reels and it'samazing to see.
I think a lot of people probablylearned their lesson the first
time around.
I remember going to seminarsand education sessions, at shows
and at, you know, ajs Conclave.
People would always ask thequestion well, I'm not going to
(10:21):
sell anything through socialmedia, what's the point of being
there?
Like, I'm not going to sellanything?
And it's like well, you'rethere to like, get people's
attention.
You're there to make your brand, you're there to be seen.
Like what?
Maybe what you sell throughthere is minimal, but it still
makes a difference.
And I think people finally likegot that this time around.
And I think, too, obviously thepandemic played a big role in
that, because the pandemicprobably did weed out some
(10:44):
people who, just you know,refused to get on that train.
Absolutely there was no otherway to do it.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
I definitely think that the people who a lot of the
people who were reluctant toadopt technology and modern
selling and things like that, orjust to have more of an
omnichannel experience A lot ofthem, yeah did have to either
(11:12):
decide if they were going toadapt really suddenly or they
went the way of the dodo duringthe pandemic.
But even in my time, when Istarted in 2017, punchbox was
not taken seriously when it cameto e-commerce, even though we
had a couple of stores that weredoing well, it was absolutely
not the norm, and a lot ofjewelers even scoffed at the
idea, thinking like, oh, whywould I miss the opportunity at
(11:35):
clienteling and encouragingpeople to come to my store so I
can build that relationship withthem?
If I sell online, then it'slike I sell the item, but the
relationship ends there.
But now I think jewelers haveseen it.
Most jewelers have made atleast one online sale in the
past and they realized, hey,free money is just as good as
(11:56):
regular money.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
A sale is a sale.
And look, having a websitethat's e-commerce and that's
easily searchable and well done,I think it makes a huge
difference because somebodycould come in your store and see
something and then maybe like,oh, do I have some?
Like I do this.
Sometimes I go in a store and Isee something.
I'm like, do I have somethingat home?
Like do I really need this?
And I go home and think aboutit and a couple of days later,
(12:19):
if I'm still like, oh, I reallywant that pair of jeans or that
dress, I'll go home and buy itonline.
But you know, maybe I don'tfeel like running back out to
the store, Like it just givespeople an option to be able to
access your inventory 24 seven,and maybe they start their
journey online and come in.
Maybe they come in and they goback online and and make the
purchase there.
But why?
Why wouldn't you give them theopportunity?
(12:41):
I just think, as a business,honestly, anymore if you don't
have e-commerce, you look kindof suspect.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
I agree, I'm totally with you.
Actually, the episode beforethis one is literally titled why
Now is a Good Time to Turn onE-Commerce.
So I think we're hitting itright on the head.
But the main, biggest thing Iwanted to bring you on for
Michelle is, as someone who'svery plugged into, I guess, the
state of play when it comes tojewelry and I must admit I'm not
(13:08):
fully understanding everythingon a global scale it sometimes
does kind of kick outside mycoverage.
I wanted to ask about this sortof state of uncertainty that
sometimes is just in the economyin general, but also
specifically in the jewelryindustry.
Unfortunately, it comes at theresult of you penned a piece on
(13:32):
tariffs and then I reached outto you.
I was like hey, I loved yourpiece on tariffs, I thought it
was really interesting, I wouldlove to talk about them.
And then you're like okay,let's talk about them.
And then 20 minutes later itwas like oh no, they're paused.
So it seems like every otherday they're paused and they're
back on.
They're paused as of right now,may 2nd 2025, are the tariffs
(13:55):
on or are they off right now?
Speaker 3 (13:57):
So here's what happened.
So we're going to go.
It's actually exactly a monthnow.
I'm going to flip back in thecalendar here.
So on April 2nd there wasannouncement about the slate of
so-called reciprocal tariffs.
That included, you know, highrates on countries like India,
thailand, vietnam, sri Lanka,botswana, like a lot of
(14:20):
countries that are very key tothe jewelry trade, and there was
reciprocal tariffs.
And there was also, on anycountry that for which there was
not listed a higher reciprocaltariff, there was a baseline
tariff of 10% across the board.
That baseline tariff, I believe, went into effect on April 5th.
So this press conference tookplace on April 2nd.
(14:42):
These tariffs were announced OnApril 5th.
The baseline of 10% went intoeffect.
Then the following week it wasexactly a week later, on April
9th the reciprocal tariffs wentinto effect at 12.01 am Eastern
time.
So the minute it hit Wednesdaythe 9th in the United States,
(15:03):
and then about 1, 1.30 thatafternoon it was announced that
the reciprocal tariffs werepaused, but this baseline of 10%
remains in effect across theboard.
Now the country excluded fromthis and I think everybody knows
about this because it is in thenews absolutely every single
day is China, and China, whereobviously there's a back and
(15:23):
forth with China.
People called it a trade war.
There's a back and forth withChina and China, where obviously
there's a back and forth withChina.
People called it a trade war.
There's a back and forth withChina and so the tariffs on
Chinese goods are much higher,but nobody.
We actually just did a piece.
Lauren McElmore, who is myassociate editor, who covers the
Jemston market, just did apiece and she was interviewing
Jeff Mason with Mason K Jade andhe is just, he just got a
(15:45):
shipment from China and we wereasking him we're like so the
tariffs are 145%, right, andhe's like I don't know exactly
like it's.
It's higher for some productand what we've understood from
research is higher for someproducts, lower for some
products.
He said he wasn't, it was, hewas waiting for like some
repairs and a custom order fromChina and he's like I'm not
exactly sure how they're goingto tax this.
(16:07):
So also just to be clear, soeverybody understands a tariff
is a tax and the tax is paid bythe person importing it into the
United States.
It's not paid by the countryfrom whence it's coming, and I
think sometimes there'sconfusion about that.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
But also in your article about the initial
tariffs, which I'm not going tosay became obsolete but it
became altered shortly after youpublished it.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
No, I'm not saying that.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
No, yeah, but the one thing that was interesting was
you were giving examples behind,like, okay, if a gemstone is
mined here and then it's cuthere, the tariff is this much,
and then it's cut here, thetariff is this much, and I
needed like a flow sheet.
It was so there's so many rulesand exceptions and then if it
goes through China, god forbid,and suddenly you're paying out
(16:54):
the nose.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
It was crazy to me.
So there's this whole thingcalled substantial
transformation, and I firstbecame aware of substantial
transformation.
This first came up a few yearsago when the sanctions were put
on Russian diamonds and therewas a whole issue of substantial
transformation which refers to.
So we'll just give it injewelry terms as an example.
I'm a company and I mine mydiamonds in Botswana.
(17:20):
These diamonds are mine inBotswana, so they're rough
diamonds, right, but they'resent to India to be cut and
polished.
So what happens in India?
When the rough diamond is cutand polished and becomes a
faceted diamond, the kind ofdiamond you see in tennis
necklaces and engagement rings,it's then considered to be quote
substantially transformed andit becomes a product of India
(17:44):
and then it is subject to thetariff of India, not the tariff
of Botswana.
So that's kind of the biggestquestion we were getting.
Like what if the diamond's minehere and it's cut here and it's
set here and that is where itis considered to be
substantially transformed isthen becomes its country of
origin and that is the tariffthat is applied and in that case
(18:04):
, the tariff I don't have theexact rates in front of me, but
I believe the tariff on Indiawas maybe 29% and the tariff on
Botswana was maybe 36.
I'm just throwing out numbershere.
I'm not exactly sure.
I'd have to look, but that isthe tariff on India actually
would be better in that case,because they have a low tariff
(18:24):
rate.
Now, what's going to happen in90 days from now?
Are these tariffs going to beunpaused and go into effect as
they were introduced?
I can't tell you that.
I don't know at all.
India, interestingly, which iswhere 90% of the world's
diamonds are cut, was one of thefirst countries to come forward
(18:45):
and try to negotiate, and Ihave heard I was speaking with
an analyst a couple of weeks agowho said he thinks India is
going to be one of the countriesthat gets cut a deal which is,
for the jewelry industry, goodnews on many levels.
But of course there's a lot ofdifferent moving parts.
That doesn't solve everything,but that is where we are right
now.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
It that doesn't solve everything, but that is where
we are right now.
It's fascinating.
That's exactly what I wascurious about.
But also in the same point islike, for example, with China
there's a lot more trade throughChina than I had really kind of
known about, and the fact thatthat I mean what is it like?
Speaker 3 (19:19):
120%, that is like-, 145%, 145%, we're not exactly
sure how this is being assessed,like we try to get an answer
from somebody we justinterviewed.
He's like I don't know yet I'mnot clear how these things are
taxed, particularly.
And I'd also point out thatindustry organizations Jewelers
America, who owns us, and theAmerican Gem Trade Association,
(19:40):
are lobbying for exemptions forthings we do not and cannot make
here.
You know diamonds, sri Lankansapphires, colombian emeralds,
you know emeralds from Zambia orgems from Tanzania or Kenya.
You know things we cannot makehere.
So that's also happening.
So there's a lot of balls up inthe air right now.
So I think there's kind of twokind of avenues of uncertainty.
(20:05):
There's the uncertainty on thetrades part, like we're talking
to a lot of designers ahead ofthe tour show and the JCK show
in Las Vegas and they're like Idon't know how to price things.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, that's the question.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
What's the replacement cost for this piece
going to be, this gemstone, thisgold?
It's made here.
You know they don't know how toprice things.
Plus the price of gold, they'rehaving to raise the prices
anyway.
I mean, what is it today?
3200, almost 3300.
I think it went down a littlebit today.
I think it was 34 earlier inthe week, but um, so they don't.
You know they're unsure how toprice things.
(20:37):
I think international vendorsare unsure about coming about,
how much it's going to cost themto bring their goods in, how
they can bring their goods in,what they need to bring their
goods in.
And then you also have, like,if there's consumer uncertainty,
if people aren't sure what it'sgoing to cost them, is that
going to have an effect?
Probably not at the high, highend, but is that going to have
(20:59):
some effect on jewelry sales?
You know, if you're looking at,well, I need to get a new car,
or I need new appliances, or youknow I need this for my kids or
whatever, and you're going tohave everything's going to cost
you twice as much.
Like are you going to have.
You know, I love jewelry butit's not.
It's not something like a caror food that's necessary.
(21:22):
It's a luxury and it's you know,if people's disposable income
takes a hit, I don't know wherethat's going to leave us.
So I mean, these are what wedon't, let's the thing we don't
know.
So it's all these kind of like.
I know, I don't know that I'veever faced a period where it's
just there's just so much up inthe air, like this feels more up
in the air to me than thepandemic did.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Wow, and that was one of the, I mean one of the
articles off National Jewelrywas consumer confidence is at a
pandemic level lows, and it'swild to me to think back to that
period of time where thereasons felt more, it's terrible
to say, but like more tangible,like why are things costing
(22:06):
more?
Or like why is is my confidencethat something is going to be
like successfully delivered tomy door in the state that I
expected, uh, it's because of,like, all these things related
to, like this, you know, illness, but at the same time, um, this
it feels so like is it going tocome to pass?
I mean, we, like you said, wehave another 60 days before we
(22:28):
know the answer.
Unfortunately, jck is, you know, going to be right inside of
that mark.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yeah, that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
How does it be?
Speaker 3 (22:37):
better for the industry if we had even if they
were bad answers, if we had somekind of answers before this.
But we don't.
That's the thing.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
So I don't know.
Do you think that that, like on, can we go?
Speaker 3 (22:49):
back to consumer confidence for one second.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
You know the interesting.
So every month we've put on theconference board consumer
confidence.
I don't know that always gelswith consumer spending.
Sometimes it feels like they'resaying, oh, consumer confidence
is down, but people are stillout there spending.
But this is now five months ina row that it has been down.
And you know the thing, if youread the story, what it said
basically was like people don'tfeel so bad currently about
(23:14):
right now.
And in fact I was justlistening to NPR this morning
and they were saying you know,the most recent jobs report was
good and unemployment's low, sopeople don't feel so stressed or
concerned about their currentsituation.
But people's outlook about whatthings are going to look like
six months from now is poor andmaybe that'll change.
Like I said, we don't, you know, I just don't know.
(23:36):
Maybe the whole reciprocaltariff thing will I don't want
to say go away, but be resolved.
Maybe there'll be agreementswith some country.
Maybe there'll be exemptionsfrom gemstones Like we don't
know.
But you know people are nervousand people don't like
uncertainty and you know stockmarkets don't like it either and
(23:56):
that's why the markets havebeen so up and down, which a lot
of jewelers will tell you too,affects their consumers buying.
There was one year it might'vebeen 2019.
It was pre-pandemic, for surewhere everyone was having a
super strong year and then thestock market tanked right before
Christmas and I remember somany jewelers saying like they
(24:17):
had a terrible Christmas.
It was like it had been a fineyear and then it ended on a
terrible note.
You know, on the flip side,everybody was so scared when the
pandemic started that nobodywould buy jewelry, and jewelry
sales absolutely flourished in2020, 2021 into 2022.
People had they weren't goinganywhere, you know, instead of
like taking this anniversarytrip, they got a nice piece of
(24:39):
jewelry that had lots ofdisposable income and, you know
jewelry makes you feel good, sopeople were buying it.
So Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Do you think, though, that these increased costs on
as a result of tariffs?
There's been a lot ofdiscussions in a lot of the
online forums talking aboutshould the cost and the increase
in prices be passed to theretailer, to the consumer,
should they be split between themanufacturer and the vendor?
(25:08):
Or, if you had to make aprediction, who's going to end
up having to pay more?
Is it all parties involved, oris someone in the middle going
to just be able to say, hey,prices are more, so I'm just
going to charge that much more,and it kind of just washes over
them more or less?
Speaker 3 (25:25):
I mean, I think it's going to depend on the industry
and where the margins lie right,like if you're selling
something that's, you know,basically sold on a name, like
I'm not going to say a companyname specifically, but let's
just talk about some of thislike like athletic wear, like
yoga pants, some of this stuffis like outrageously priced for
(25:46):
what it is.
I think so in that case I wasactually I actually was at
Pilates this morning thinkingabout this.
In that case I would say,probably, if I was that company,
that brand, I might try to eata lot of that myself and go down
on my margins a little bit,because I'm already charging
people so much for this product.
I already have this massivemargin.
(26:08):
You know I'm charging, you knowX amount of dollars for these
yoga pants that cost me $2 tomake.
Make.
Do you see what I'm saying?
I am yeah, and it's hard to seehow, when you have something
that's like a premium product,like that, how you could raise
prices anyway.
But I don't know, maybe youcould and people would still buy
because it's your name and theyhave money and they like your
product.
But I think it's really gonna.
(26:29):
It's really gonna depend on theindustry and who, who has the
margin to be able to do it.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
I see, and the jewelry industry.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
You know I was wondering.
It's going to be hard because,like I said, people are already
going to.
We've already got threenotifications from brands saying
we're raising our pricesbecause of the gold prices, like
haven't even commented on thetariffs yet, but saying we're
raising prices because of goldprices.
So I don't know, but how much?
(26:58):
And if you're a retailer, howmuch price elasticity do you
think you have with yourconsumer?
Like how much could you raiseprices before people start
buying and you start losingconsumers?
And I guess that depends onwhich end of the market you're
in and like can yourmanufacturer take a little bit?
Can everybody take a little bit?
Can the manufacturer eat alittle bit?
The retailer eat a little bitand then raise prices a little
(27:20):
bit?
I don't know.
But it's like I said, it's alsogoing to depend on where you
get your products or materialsand what kind of tariff that
particular country, the importsfrom that particular country,
face.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
And that was tying really well into, for example,
with talking about gold.
So I had a mutual friend ofours, david Siminsky, on a
couple of weeks ago.
We were talking all about whyis the price of gold so high and
he was explaining all thesefactors and it was very
fascinating.
But one thing he mentioned isthat when gold had spiked in the
(27:57):
past, then a lot of the timesconsumers don't really, I guess,
pay attention to that as muchas you might expect.
When you just say like, hey,price of gold is up when they go
to do a custom jewelry piece,they just understand that that
is what they're paying.
They don't have like the.
It's like arguing the price ofgas in a construction project.
(28:19):
Suddenly it's like, oh, it'sbaked into it and it's more kind
of inside of the project.
However, increasingly I mean,the price of gold is setting all
time highs every single day.
It seems like it just hit 3,500a few days ago and I was like,
oh, surely it won't go anyhigher than that.
(28:39):
It recedes a little bit andthen who knows where it's going
to go for the rest of the year.
You've been around for a littlewhile following this.
What similarities can you draw?
Any historical similarities towhat is going on with gold and
how it might kind of impactretailers.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Yeah, I mean the gold is in historic size, like
everyone knows this.
It's never been this much.
You know, I've been thinkingabout this lately, the kind of
like history of metals, if youwill, in the brief time I've
been in the industry.
So, like I said, I came in justbefore the recession and when
the recession was really tough.
The recession hit the hit thisindustry hard.
(29:17):
I remember there being likevery lean years at national
jeweler, very lean years forjewelers.
The shows were pared down and Iremember that silver had a huge
bump during that period andthat's also kind of.
When Pandora took off in theUnited States and there was, I
mean, everybody was makingsilver collections and silver
(29:38):
was huge.
And then you know, so whitemetal people were into white
metal, but silver basicallybecause in this time too, the
price of platinum was higher.
For for as long as I canremember, the price of platinum
has been higher than the priceof gold.
Um, that's not the case anymore, but it was for a long time.
So silver was really in andthen, um, and then I don't know
(30:00):
when it would have started, butstarting maybe somewhere around,
like maybe 2013, 2012.
Um, you started to see in.
It became as more as a fashiontrend that people were really
getting back into yellow gold.
I would also say, like, at thetime that silver was very
popular, yellow gold itself waskind of out of fashion, Like you
(30:22):
didn't see it as much and youwould have never seen yellow
gold in a bridal piece.
I'm going to make a reference toa television show.
There was an episode of Sex andthe City where Harry got an
engagement ring she did not likefrom Aiden and she was, you
know, describing to the otherwoman other women how terrible
she thought it was and she waslike it was this kind of diamond
with a gold band and they'reall like yes.
(30:45):
And then one of her friends islike you wear yellow gold.
She's like yeah, but it's likefake gold for fun, or whatever.
She said she's like this is myengagement ring.
Like when I first started inthe industry, everybody had a
white metal engagement ring,white gold or platinum, and you
know the trend was full metals.
So whether that was white goldor silver, so then silver
(31:05):
obviously obviously was verypopular because it was more
inexpensive and nobody had anymoney during the recession, some
point people started to comeout of it and then, you know,
like I said, the turning back toyellow gold, was it just really
caught on as a fashion trendbefore.
But trends are all cyclical,right?
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
You know people for a long time were only wearing
white metals and nobody wouldhave dreamed of getting engaged
with, you know gasp a yellowgold ring.
But we see a lot of yellow goldand bridal now rose gold at a
moment.
But I think yellow gold's kindof like what we see a lot of now
, including celebrities and soand yellow gold is just the
(31:45):
style for fashion jewelryEverybody yellow gold chains and
tennis necklaces and earringsand you know having four
piercings in each ear and ringslike it's yellow gold is
everywhere.
But interestingly, I have seena little bit of a start of a
tilt back till silver andthere's also we had somebody we
were working on an article abouttrends of the past decade for
(32:06):
our state of the majors issueand some one of the people we
interviewed was saying that shethinks two-tone is going to be
the next big thing.
So gold and silver which if youhave a big piece, it is going to
be the next big thing.
So gold and silver which if youhave a big piece, it's going to
help keep the price down, right, If some of it's silver and
gold and it's not all gold likeand also two-tone has kind of
been out for a while.
Like I said, everything youknow, everything takes its turn
(32:27):
Like people get very obsessedwith one thing for a long time.
Then people you know that kindof goes out of style, that they
get sick of it or whatever, andthe next thing comes in.
So I'd be interested to see howmuch silver we see in Las Vegas
and how much two-tone.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Give us enough time, we'll be back with bell-bottom
jeans, so I definitely-.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
That's another great example.
Like skinny jeans, that was the.
That was the thing for a while.
Like I, when I was in college,everybody was wearing wide leg.
We just called them wide legRight and you know my mom
thought it was funny because shewas like, oh, those are like
bell bottoms you know her time,and then that it was skinny, and
now you see wide leg pantsagain.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
So give it enough time, it will come all the way
back it all it all, it allrotates in and out.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
I think if you ask somebody that was in the
industry, like I mean, I feellike I've been in the industry a
long time but there's so manypeople in this industry twice as
long as me, I mean I thinkthey've probably seen everything
come and go five times.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Yeah, well, that's the thing with that, you know
David was also mentioning isthat during the the great, you
know, the recession, during therecession especially, I think it
was, yeah, 2007, 8, he wastalking about how we buy gold
was this thing and it kept a lotof jewelers doing pretty well
(33:45):
and some of them, some jewelerswere really smart and they saved
the money and they weatheredthe storm and some they treated
themselves with it.
Do you think that that is goingto be kind of a trend we see
come back as well, as jewelersbuying increasingly advertising
that they buy gold and kind ofseeing that as like a way for
jewelers to have I don't want tosay like a utility impact, but
(34:07):
more of like a service that theycan start to add on to their
business models?
Speaker 3 (34:13):
I mean I've seen a little bit here and there on
instagram like jewelers puttingup posts and being like did you
know?
The price of gold is anall-time high, we can buy your
gold.
But I think it seems like it'sbeing done at least on instagram
, in kind of a more tastefulmanner, and it doesn't look.
So you know, we buy gold, bigbanner outside, you know, I mean
(34:34):
it looks like more elegant andluxury?
I think it's probably, but I'veactually I haven't seen or heard
as much of it as I would havethought.
But I also think the price ofgold has just shot up so fast.
You know, it's something Ishould probably talk to jewelers
about in the coming months,like you know, are you, I'm sure
, I'm sure they would and I'msure they will.
(34:55):
I just haven't seen it as much.
You, dave, is right.
It was so prevalent, like itwas every, everywhere, with gold
buying events in the recessionit was everywhere.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
So you mentioned speaking with jewelers.
I was wondering do you havelike a, like a cohort or like a,
a group of jewelers that youspeak with, uh, that provide you
information?
I'm assuming that you know, asbeing editor-in-chief, that
you're not working in a jewelrystore.
Um, apart from attending tradeshows, do you speak with, with a
(35:27):
group of jewelers regularly toto find out what trends are
happening or, uh, what theirkind of the sympathy is in the
industry?
Speaker 3 (35:38):
I don't have a specific group, but I talk to
jewelers all the time and,whether it's like and you, I
also watch what people talkabout online.
You know that you can get a lotof information scrolling
through Facebook or Instagram.
You know just whatconversations are people having.
There's also somebody emailedme recently about something they
were doing and they weretalking about.
This is interesting how theywere doing this particular thing
, because they had been watchingconversations on Reddit.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Interesting.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
You know, right To like see what the conversations
are and that's probably morelike jeweler to consumer, like
jewelers want to see whatconsumers are saying.
But you know I feel like wehave our finger on the pulse.
But I mean, if more people wantto contact me, I'm always happy
to get it.
I did put my email address inthat tariff story which one of
my editors was like are you sureyou want to do that?
(36:23):
That's where I got it but myemail address is at the top of
every story anyway.
If you click my name, itautomatically opens an email to
me.
Little trick.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
But you know I got a lot of emails but you know fair
like I'm trying to get answersfor people, so I guess around
that side type of thing when itcomes to JZK it's coming up.
That's what I am going to bereally paying attention to is I
just started working at agreater capacity with our vendor
partners, so I'm going to trymy hardest to go around and
introduce myself to as many ofthem as I can.
But what's fascinating isjewelers are not just everybody
knows this but jewelers are notjust buying in June for July.
(37:02):
A lot of the times they'rebuying for Christmas right now,
yeah, for Christmas, and whoknows what the world's going to
look like then.
Do you foresee, if you were tomake a prediction on this, do
you think that jewelers aregoing to be more reticent in
like kind of conserving andholding onto their chips if you
(37:23):
will going into JCK because theydon't know where things are
shifting?
Or do you predict that peoplemight see this as a investment
opportunity to get things kindof at a cheaper price point
before they maybe continue goingup and to the right around the
Christmas holidays?
Speaker 3 (37:43):
Boy, that's a really good question.
I don't know, honestly, I don'tknow.
You know, I've been talking.
I met a couple weeks ago withthe designer and he was showing
me his, you know, thecollections he's going to be
rolling out at JCK and I askedhim what he thought.
Or he was rolling out in Vegas,I can't remember which show he
said he was going to, but and hesaid he thought that not that
(38:04):
many people were even going tocome to the shows.
So but I, you know, I don't knowand I don't want to, you know,
cast aspersions on the shows.
We're going to be there andwe're going to be curious to see
what people are buying, howthey're buying, how they're
approaching things, because Ithink everybody has a different
approach and, to be fair to you,everybody kind of has a
different market.
You know, if my customers arekind of more middle income, then
(38:27):
that's a different thing thanif I am in, you know, one am in,
you know, one of the wealthiestcommunities on the East Coast
and all of my customers aremillionaires and billionaires.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
That is a very different, different game to be
playing it's a very differentcustomer.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Yeah, absolutely so you know, I think everybody, I
think you know I would hopeeverybody's going to come with
some kind of plan.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Yeah, I think that's going to be the goal for us.
A big part of it is going to bespeaking with jewelers, and
Punchmark did extra well aroundthe pandemic, essentially
because of not just the rise ofe-commerce and jewelers needed
to rely on their websitesuddenly, but also because there
did seem to be.
(39:10):
Everyone took a moment.
They were like, okay, who isgoing to be the voice of reason
and speak articulately aboutwhat is happening and actually
be leaders, and I think thatwhat we're seeing right now with
uncertainty like we've alreadycovered that there is an
appetite, a growing appetite forleadership and people to kind
(39:32):
of have some type of calmingvoice and people to kind of have
some type of calming voice.
That's how our podcast actuallystarted is.
We started in March 2020 as theJewelers Survival Kit.
That was our original podcastand we were covering how
jewelers could stay on top ofhaving their physical locations
shut down.
And now, as this is coming up,I've started to shift my hardest
(39:53):
into these topical ones, likethe price of gold and
understanding these pricefluctuations, as best I can, but
kind of I can sort of feel likethat's what's going on and I
think that JCK is going to bethe best opportunity I'll have
to really speak with people andtry to listen as best as I can.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
And it's also fair to say like we're still I mean the
shows are a little bit laterthis year we're still like a
month and a week out from theshows.
So I could give you an answertoday, but you know every you
know situations could change infive weeks.
You know our month or howeverlong it is till we're going.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Yep, michelle, we're going to take a quick break and
when we come back I want to talka little bit more about
National Jewelry.
So everybody, stay with us.
Punchmark is so excited toannounce the launch of our email
marketing campaigns craftedspecifically for jewelers.
Take your jewelry storesmarketing to the next level with
(40:51):
Punchmark's email marketingservice.
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(41:12):
Learn more at punchmarkcom.
Slash email dash marketingAgain, that's punchmarkcom.
Slash email dash marketing.
And now back to the show.
Okay, everybody still speakingwith Michelle Graff from from
(41:35):
national jeweler.
So, michelle, I was justtelling you I, uh, national
jeweler to me is a, is an emailnewsletter.
That's that's what it is for me.
However, uh, you do have theseother um, uh, print media as
well.
I was wondering, when you talkabout national jeweler, what is
like the main kind of focus andreach that you're trying to kind
(41:58):
of convey?
Is it about like these dailyhappenings, like with business,
but are?
Is it about fashion?
How do you kind of viewnational jeweler?
Speaker 3 (42:07):
Well, I think it's so funny that you viewed as a
newsletter, because it's we'regoing to be.
Did I mention already we'regoing to be 120 years old next
year?
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
Like that's incredible.
Like we've been around forlonger.
Jck is a little bit older, jckmagazine and they're a little
bit older, but you know 120years and still be going in this
media landscape is pretty,pretty incredible.
Yeah, so I view it as like whatwe were trying to do on a daily
basis is I get a lot of input,right, I get a lot of emails.
(42:38):
There's a lot of stuff going on.
There's four of us.
There's four of us that do thisevery day.
And what I mean do this?
We do the newsletter, we do allthe social media promotion and
you know we and we write thestories, we size the pictures,
we put together the newsletter,then we're, you know, we're
trying to put it on LinkedIn,we're putting on our Instagram,
we're reels, we have stories.
So it's basically what I'msaying here.
(43:01):
Is this a lot of work?
So I have to be good atnarrowing down this input to
what's important, like what dojewelers really want to hear
about?
Do they need to hear aboutevery little grab and run?
Do they need to hear aboutevery single watch or necklace
that comes up for auction?
No, we try to focus on thethings that are really
(43:21):
interesting or, you know,unusual.
Like they always say, news isthe different and unusual Things
that are interesting, unusualand things that I think would
help jewelers with theirbusiness, like interesting
marketing campaigns other peopleare doing.
You know, obviously we have toreport when one person leaves
here and goes over there.
That's of interest to people.
You know we have a regularslate of columnists.
(43:44):
We have Peter Smith, manuelRahib, lillian Raji, sherry
Smith and God help me, I hopeI'm not forgetting somebody oh
and Jen Cullen Williams, andthey all write for us and they
all have kind of a differentlane and their columns are meant
to be like, very informative.
(44:04):
You know, national jewelers aretrade publication.
When I think of trade, right,you're supposed to be writing
helping people run theirbusiness better.
But when you turn into a dailypublication, you also are a news
organization.
So I try to make it a blend ofboth.
Like here's kind of like what'sgoing on in the space that you
need to know today that'shappening in jewelry or
(44:26):
happening in retail on a largerscale that might impact your
business, and here are also tipsfor running your business.
So that's the way I look at thedaily newsletter and you know I
obviously with news, sometimeswe're going to have the same
story as other tradepublications, but I try not to
do that too much, cause I kindof feel like you know, if X
(44:46):
happened and I didn't see it andthis other person did and it
was in there first, then so beit.
Like people have seen it, Idon't need to re rerun it.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
Is that something that you have to kind of be a
student of the game as well?
You need to be readingeverybody else so that you know
how to differentiate yourself.
That must be kind ofinteresting.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
I mean it's a thousand percent and it's the
same thing I'm sure jewelers do.
If they're in a town, you knowthey don't want to be.
If this jeweler down thestreets the color of stone
expert, and this jeweler overthere is somebody that you is
known for getting you know allthe trendy, hip, new designers,
then you don't necessarily wantto be following exactly what
they're doing.
You know, and sometimes ifthere's breaking news somewhere,
(45:28):
sometimes we do cover itbecause it's like, well, I can't
pretend that story didn'thappen or skip that story.
But you know, sometimes it'slike, well, people have seen
that already.
Like moving on.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
Yeah, on the topic of , you know, smash and grabs and
robberies.
It's a topic that I have.
You know we're 250 episodesinto this.
I've always wanted to do anepisode specifically about
security and robberies andthings like that, because it is
(45:58):
inherently a part of theindustry.
It's not something that peoplelove to discuss that much and
that's one of the reasons why Idon't know how to go about it.
Should I be speaking withsomeone who was just robbed or
had a case that was covered orhas been resolved?
You guys have always coveredthese with a lot of touch, I
(46:20):
might say, or grace, or whateverthat word is, because we don't
want to sensationalize it though.
News can be sensational, youknow can be.
I mean, there's tons of moviesabout, about, robberies and and
about and it's usually from thethief's point of view.
How do you balance that kind ofthat, that topic where it's,
(46:44):
it's educating the public, it's,you know, conveying the
information.
But it's not thatsensationalism which, like,
might be giving kind of almostencouragement to the act.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
Right.
So something to know about me.
When I worked at the DailyNewspaper, I covered crime, so I
used to sit with a policescanner.
This was back in the day.
I used to sit with that.
There's my.
I used to sit with a policescanner at my desk and I had a
list of the police codes and Iwould listen, like you kind of
learned, adopted the skill oflike being able to work on
(47:19):
something while also semilistening to something else, and
your, your kind of got trainedfor like, there was like one
number for murder, one for anarmed robbery, one for a car
accident, one for a car accidentwith fatalities, there was a
number for a plane crash, and soI used to run out and when I
heard, I'd grab a photographerand run out to cover stuff and I
(47:40):
had to cover a lot of,unfortunately, homicides, and I
used to have to go knock onpeople's doors this was a long
time ago again Go knock onpeople's doors and say, hey, you
know this happened here.
Did you see anything?
Did you hear anything Like what?
Can you tell me about thishouse where this happened?
I also had to go talk to a lotof people who had just lost a
(48:04):
loved one.
And that's hard and it givesyou a lot of sympathy for people
who are grieving and it givesyou, like you described it as a
touch, and that kind of is atouch to it.
And I remember when I was doingthis I was probably 23 years
old, I was really young, and Iremember, you know, when I first
used to do it I was scared todeath.
I was scared to death to golike knock on these people's
doors, but I just, you know, youkind of get over it.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:25):
You learn how to do it, and so I think that's
probably part of the reasonwe're good at covering crime is
because it's something I have alot of experience doing, and I
think for jewelers, you have tolook at it as the perspective of
why am I telling people this?
This was also covered on theirlocal news.
It was in their local newspaper.
People posted about it onNextdoor or on Facebook or
(48:48):
whatever.
But we want to point out like,hey, in this situation, this is
what happened.
These are things that couldhave been done differently to
prevent the crime or mitigatethe losses, and that's what we
always try to keep in mind.
And if you want to talk tosomeone about security, call the
Juris Security Alliance.
John Kennedy he just retired.
(49:10):
He was great.
He ran it for years.
Jennifer is doing a great joband they absolutely will help
you.
And anytime they put out abulletin, an alert you know
there was, you know, a massivesafe robbery at XYZ they always
include a list of tips.
You know, don't put your safehere.
You know X1, 2, they justinclude a list of five, six tips
(49:31):
about, like you know, here'swhat this situation happened.
Or, and this is how, like thisis how things could have been
handled differently.
And it's not a way to criticizethe store where it happened.
It's just to say if you'refaced, you know here are things
to think about in your store andyou know it's also good.
Another reason we cover it isif there are people who are if
(49:52):
you will repeat offenders and wehave good pictures of them.
You could say these threepeople have now, you know,
committed smash and grabs orgrab and runs or distraction
thefts that you know stores inthese states.
So if you're kind of in thisradius, be on the lookout for
these individuals.
Speaker 1 (50:09):
Yeah, no, that's a.
I think that that might be theangle is not, again, not
celebrating it, it's more if youcan come at it from an
educational standpoint.
I do think that there isinherent value in that because
it's like, hey, learn from thisyou know tragic incident and
being able to, like, come outthe better from it.
But I do think that, yeah, theway that you guys handle it is
(50:32):
something I hate to say this Iam very interested in it.
It is something that I read thearticles because I do find that
fascinating.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
Well, I mean honestly , almost everybody does Just
look in general like what a biggenre true crime is and you know
I can tell you from ourstandpoint those articles are
some of the most read on thesite.
But you know it's for jewelers,it's universal.
They all have valuable thingsthat people want.
They all have valuable thingsthat are small and portable and
(51:01):
easily moved along and they allhave to think about this.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Yeah, now, as we wrap this up, michelle, I wanted to
ask you are again very pluggedin with the industry, better
than probably anybody that I'vespoken with, and I'm wondering
if there is a topic or a trendor a story that you think should
be getting more air.
(51:25):
For a long time, mine was.
I feel like we don't talkenough about e-commerce and
online and, as I started kind ofbeating the drum, it seems like
jewelers are coming around.
I think that the industry is alittle like you had mentioned
slow, but they do kind of movewith force.
Is there anything from yourperspective that you feel like
(51:47):
is not getting the attention orfocus?
That is going to either be abig story in a few years or is a
big story now, just isn'tgetting the airtime it deserves?
Speaker 3 (51:58):
I don't know if this isn't getting the airtime it
deserves, but I think it'ssomething that's come up in
conversations I've had the lastcouple of weeks and it's kind of
down the pipeline effects thesetariffs could have.
We talked a little bit in thisstory I think I mentioned
Lauren's story about coloredgemstones and tariffs.
She talked a little bit aboutthis, like the effects if
(52:20):
gemstone sales drop because theprices are high, the effects
this is going to have on smallcommunities that really depend
on mining.
I think there's also a thingabout you think about a country
like Botswana, which is, youknow diamonds are huge for their
economy and you know De Beersjust signed this new sales
agreement with them and as partof that sales agreement there's
(52:42):
something called the Diamondsfor Development Fund and a big
piece of that is establishingmore beneficiation in Botswana,
more cutting, more polishing.
So taking the rough out of theground in Botswana and cutting
them, polishing the diamondsthere and just making it one
stop, not sending them toanother country to be cut.
But if tariffs are higher inBotswana than they are where the
(53:02):
diamonds are being cut, that'sgoing to be a problem and the
industry for years has been, youknow, talking about
beneficiation, working oncreating beneficiation, working
on, you know, making sure thecommunities where gemstones and
diamonds are mined arebenefiting from them, and the
tariffs just kind of they'regoing to impact that.
And I also think about, youknow, we actually had just had
(53:24):
this discussion with a group ofjewelers and I think I can't
remember who brought it up, butI think it was a great point.
You know, the industry hasreally in recent years, like so
many other industries, reallyworked on supply chain
transparency and being able tosay, hey, I got this here and it
came from here and it came fromthere, and being able to trace
it back.
And you know that's somethingthat people now this is always
(53:46):
said that younger consumers careabout this.
If you talk to jewelers, there'skind of a mixed response about
this, like how many peopleactually come in and ask where
things are from?
But the industry differentfacets of the industry have
really put a lot of time intothis.
But of the industry have reallyput a lot of time into this.
But if you have these tariffsand it's gonna end up costing
you more if it comes from Xplace than if it comes from X
place, I think you're gonna seea lot of people kind of trying
(54:10):
to skirt around transparencyjust to save money.
And I think that's a real shamebecause we've worked so hard and
so many people have worked sohard and put so much time and
money into making transparentsupply chains in a traditionally
opaque industry, to be honest.
And how's that going to go now?
(54:34):
Yeah it's one of those things ofthe shock of like.
You know, we had thisrelationship with Alrosa and
Russian Diamonds and they putAlrosa to its credit, but so
much time and money and being inleadership and responsible
sourcing and transparency andthen overnight that was gone and
I kind of feel like that wasone big blow for the diamond
(54:55):
industry and this, you know,this is about to be another for
jewelry, kind of like in thebroader sense.
But that's something I think issomething to watch and
something that'll be interestingto keep an eye on.
Speaker 1 (55:07):
There's so many communities and even entire
nations built on, yeah, specific, rare, rare minerals, not just
using jewelry but also usingmanufacturing.
And you know the fact thattransparency for a long time was
kind of I don't want to saylike kind of like relatively
agnostic when it came to thevalue and like the dollars of it
(55:30):
all.
It seemed like it was like, youknow, if you're interested in
it and if it was of value to you, then it is important.
But, like you had mentioned,there are parts of the world
where people don't really seemto put as much care and credence
into that kind of thing.
However, if there's dollars tobe won by obfuscating
transparency, you know and, and,and and, not showing all that
(55:54):
information, I can see howpeople will be taking advantage
of that.
Speaker 3 (55:58):
And if times get tough, if sales are down,
margins are slimmer, prices aregoing up, like I mean I don't
like again, I don't know exactlywhat's going to happen with the
tariffs, but this is somethingsomebody raised this point, and
I think it's a really good one.
Speaker 1 (56:12):
It is really interesting.
Michelle, that's a fascinatingtopic and it will be one that
I'm going to have to follow upon as well.
If people are interested inlearning more about National
Jeweler and maybe getting theirnews delivered to their inbox,
where should they be going?
Where can they learn more?
Speaker 3 (56:29):
So if you go to nationaljewelercom that is our
website On the top rail, on thefar right there is subscribe in
red and you can pick if you wantto get information about our,
if you want to get our dailynewsletter and information about
our webinars, or if you justwant to get one thing, if you
(56:49):
just want to get the newslettersand not the webinars, or just
information about the webinarsand not the newsletter, you can
pick and there's just a littleform there.
You fill out and, like I havealready given myself away, if
you click my name on the website, you can email me.
Speaker 1 (57:02):
Well, michelle, thank you so much for your time.
This is a very excitinginterview for me.
I've, uh, I'm definitely a bigfan of your work and, uh, the
work of National Jeweler.
It's something I follow.
I, like I mentioned, I uh Itake as many of those fun uh
tidbits and I bring them up toour all hands each week and see
if I can wow everybody with myknowledge about the current
(57:23):
state of jewelry.
So I really appreciate you forthat as well.
Thank you so much, everybody.
We'll be back next week,tuesday, with another episode.
Cheers, bye.
Speaker 3 (57:33):
Thank you so much, bye-bye.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
All right, everybody.
That's the end of the show.
Thanks so much for listening.
My guest this week was MichelleGraff, the editor-in-chief at
National Jeweler.
She was fantastic.
I really enjoyed speaking withher.
This episode was brought to youby Punchmark and produced and
hosted by me, michael Burpo.
This episode was edited by PaulSuarez with music by Ross
Cockrum.
Don't forget to rate thepodcast on Spotify and Apple
(58:01):
Podcasts and leave us feedbackon punchmarkcom slash loop.
That's L-O-U-P-E.
Thanks, and we'll be back nextweek, tuesday, with another
episode.
Cheers, bye.
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