March 25, 2025 • 24 mins
Prize indemnity insurance might sound like a dry financial topic, but Robin Lang from Tokio Marine HCC reveals it's actually one of the most exciting marketing tools available to jewelers today. We discuss how retailers can offer customers full refunds on purchases if certain events occur – like six inches of snow on New Year's Day, or a Safety during the Super Bowl – while paying just a fraction of the potential cost themselves.
Robin walks us through the mechanics of these promotions, explaining how her team of actuaries analyzes decades of historical data to calculate the odds of specific weather events or sports outcomes.
Learn more about Prize Indemnity with Tokio Marine HCC: https://www.tmhcc.com/en-us/products/contingency/prize-indemnity
Send feedback or learn more about the podcast: punchmark.com/loupe
Learn about Punchmark's website platform: punchmark.com
Inquire about sponsoring In the Loupe and showcase your business on our next episode: podcast@punchmark.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Welcome to In the Loop, or if it rains on your
wedding day promotions andthings like that, where you get
your money back on yourpurchases or the retailer pays
out purchases If it has somespecialty event.
That's probably low percentage,but it does happen and it's
these really cool promotions.
I feel like that really changeup the marketing landscape for a
(00:39):
store a little bit and we talkabout how those events happen
and how they are able tocalculate the odds so that their
business doesn't go under ifyou know, a blizzard
surprisingly happens orsomething like that.
It's a cool conversation.
Maybe that's something thatyou'd want to try out for your
store and if you're interested,their information is in the show
notes below.
Thanks and enjoy.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
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Speaker 1 (01:59):
And now back to the show show.
What is up everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo.
I'm speaking with Robin Langfrom Tokyo Marine HCC.
How are you doing today?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Robin, I'm great, thank you.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
I'm so excited to get a chance to speak with you.
I've heard a lot about these.
You know promotions and youknow very commonly referred to
as like blizzard promotions orrain on your wedding day
promotions, things like that.
Can you sort of set up for theaudience what it is that Tokyo
Marine does?
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Sure, in this specific category, it's what we
call prize indemnity and weatherpromotions, and essentially I
mean it is insurance.
So it may sound boring, howeverit's the exciting insurance I
like to call it.
And prize indemnity is really amarketing tool, a way for
companies to offer, you know,these large prizes but really
(02:57):
pay just a fraction of the cost.
So, you know, keeping verymindful of their balance sheet
and and, like I said, offeringlike a million dollars, $10
million, you know, full refundsand, but the insurance policy is
paying off and so they'rereally only paying a fraction of
that price.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Very cool and it's usually tied to some type of
event.
Are you guys very likestatistic or data driven, in
that we know exactly what thelikelihood an event is going to
be, because I imagine where I'mat it's snowing right now, so
it's going to snow no matterwhat versus.
You know, maybe in the Southit's a half of a percent of a
(03:35):
chance.
Is that something you guys arerunning like, so that you know
what the likelihood of anoutcome is going to be?
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Yeah, absolutely, you're spot on.
It really is a numbers game forus, even the weather, which is
completely unpredictable, as wesay, but we try to make it as
predictable at least a numbersstandpoint as possible.
So that's not just weather.
So we do a lot of other typesof promotions, like online
promotions and probability typepromotions, sports, statistical
(04:03):
promotions, and with weatherit's the same way.
What we're doing is we'rebasically looking at the number
of times that this particularthreshold hits, and so it
becomes a numbers game, and welook at 30 years in the past
days around it, and so it's justreally a pure calculation for
us.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Really interesting.
So, to give an idea, could youset up, for example, what one
promotion might look like?
So, for example, how far aheadof time is someone contacting
you to set up something, andthen what is it?
Is it usually around a holidayor a time of the year?
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Yeah, oftentimes I say for jewelers the most
popular time is during theholidays.
So they'll say, you know, comein and make a purchase from
Black Friday until Christmas Eve, and if it snows six inches on
New Year's Day, you get yourpurchase for free.
And so, really, timingstandpoint, people will start
planning maybe October or so.
(04:58):
But we always say, you know,what you want to do is plan
ahead.
Give yourself enough time to beable to market this properly,
get the word out about yourpromotion.
That way you can start to, youknow, generate interest and
generate awareness and really beprepared, you know, not only
for yourself but training youremployees so that they
understand the promotion.
And one of the biggest reallyrecommendation that we say too,
(05:20):
is make your promotionbelievable, because if you say,
you know you're on upstate NewYork and so six inches of snow,
oh easy, that's totallybelievable.
Same for us, and we're fromBoston.
But if you said you know, ifit's no six inches at LAX, no
one's going to believe that.
So I mean, who knows?
But yes, you definitely want tomake it, you know, simple, easy
(05:43):
to understand and believable,because because that's what's
going to, you know, generate theinterest and that's going to
give people the incentive to belike, yeah, that definitely can
happen.
So why wouldn't I buy, you know, my jewelry from the store?
Speaker 1 (05:55):
So that's kind of like the buy now reasoning is
that you should go with thisbusiness and spend your money
with them because you have awhatever 5% chance that you get
a full refund.
Is it usually a full refund orare there more customizable
terms Like what have you heardin the past for different stores
?
Speaker 3 (06:11):
We typically will see full refunds, just because
that's that's easier tocommunicate.
Um, however, really we'd leaveit up to the stores so they can,
they can pick whatever theywant.
You know, maybe it's you get,um, you know, a thousand dollars
back, or or you can getsomething else, but, um, but
really it's again easy tocommunicate, you just get a full
refund on your purchase.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
And we can get into results later on the episode.
But if you don't want me askingwhat percentage of events
actually have to pay out, do youhave any statistics around?
Speaker 3 (06:41):
that Um, I?
It's a hard question to answer.
We absolutely have paid out,for sure, um, but because it's
kind of a you know, it's allstatistical in nature, like if
you run it for a long time, theneventually it's going to happen
, um, and so I can't say, likeevery five promotions we pay out
.
But all I can say is that weabsolutely do pay out, um, and
(07:02):
it just, you know, just likewith the lottery, there's maybe
the odds are long, but it couldhappen, there's still a chance
to happen, and so you know, Ican't give a definite number,
but statistically speaking it'sgoing to happen.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, and so we've talked about, you know, rain on
your wedding day.
That's one that I've seenbefore.
I've seen snow on I think it'son Christmas, and that amount, I
guess, matters a little bitless because it's dependent on
the location One of the onesI've heard about but this isn't
(07:35):
related to jewelry, even in theslightest but my mom growing up
in Syracuse, the SyracuseUniversity team, the men's
basketball team, if they scoredover I think it was over like 75
points or something in a game,then you would get free like
five chicken nuggets orsomething from like a local
place.
Is that something you've seen?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
like sports related to promotion events Definitely,
and that's probably one of ourmore popular promotions to
ensure too.
So we do.
You know all sorts whatever youcan tie a number to.
We insure.
So we insure a large furnitureretailer out in Massachusetts
and they have an endorsementdeal with the Red Sox and so
oftentimes when you have theseendorsement deals, they're
(08:17):
expensive and so you're alwayslooking for ways to monetize
that investment, get your returnon investment.
So they run a promotion, youknow, around the Red Sox, and
you know sometimes it's if theywin the world series, it's a no
hitter.
And we are like we have a teamof actuaries looking at this and
so we're like, oh, how oftendoes this happen?
And does it make a differenceif it's American league or
(08:38):
national league?
And and you know, it doesn'tmake a difference if it's before
All-Star break or afterAll-Star break?
And so, yeah, we're alwayscrunching numbers and you know
sports, it could be, you know, acertain feat to happen.
But it could also be, you know,for we ensured a promotion,
pretty sizable one for a billiondollars, where if somebody
predicted the perfect lineupduring opening weekend of the
(09:00):
NFL, then they win a billiondollars.
So that in that aspect, we'renot looking at really statistics
and yes, we are, but we'relooking at results from past
contests that they ran and we'relooking at, like, well, how
many people you'll probably havethe average.
The average person is probablygoing to be maybe 90 percent of
the population that that submitsan entry, but then you're also
(09:20):
going to have people who arelike office pools or like
polluting, you know so.
So we have to take that intoconsideration too, and so so it
really is like a numbercrunching analytical process
that we go through.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, Wow, what a really neat kind of concept and
it keeps us sort of fun.
But, like with the Red Sox anda side note boo, we hate the Red
Sox, we love the Red Sox ableto use, for example, like Red
(09:55):
Sox, assets in their marketingpretty much all year round
essentially, or all season, Iguess being able to promote and
say like, oh yes, we work withthe Red Sox, blah, blah, blah.
Like if, uh, if they score over10 runs in a game, then, uh,
you get 10% off your purchase,whatever.
And being, how often do theyscore over 10 runs?
(10:16):
It's like I guess that doesn'treally matter, but they're able
to use that promotion materialso often that it's, uh, it
probably pays for itself, Iimagine.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Yeah, right, right, and that that is the ultimate
goal is to, you know, createsales and and boost your sales,
um, and so you're getting yourreturn on investment in that
aspect.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Really neat, Robin.
We're going to take a quickbreak and when we come back I'd
love to talk a little bit moreabout what the payout process
would be like if this was tohappen.
So everybody, stay with us.
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Speaker 1 (11:46):
And now back to the show.
What is up everybody?
I'm still speaking with Robininlang from tokyo marine hcc and
we're talking about uh, I keepsaying, weather-based promotions
, but I'm learning that's notthe name for this episode, it's
(12:06):
more like how, how do youcategorize it?
promotions okay, yeah, and shakepromotions yeah so let's, we
were just talking about some ofthese long shot events like a
billion dollars in case someonehits this crazy.
It's almost like a parlay, butI'm assuming some of them
probably have shorter odds thanthat and probably smaller
(12:27):
payouts.
So what is the the actualpayout process look like?
Let's say it's if it snows overone inch on Christmas day and
it does.
How do you because I'm surethat immediately, people who
bought their jewelry from ajewelry store during a certain
(12:47):
promotion period are immediatelylooking for their money back
and they're anxious and theywant to make sure it's real how
are you communicating with thecustomer, retailer and, of
course, your, your business?
Speaker 3 (13:00):
yeah.
So with if there is a payout,the policy holder is usually the
store, and so we'll actuallypay the store, which, and it
doesn't take very long,depending on the limit.
Um, we say 30 days, give us 30days, but usually it's much,
much faster than that.
And so we say, in the terms andconditions for the, for the
store just say, you know, maybeit's six to eight weeks or
(13:21):
something, um, to give yourselfa little bit of a buffer.
Uh, but what we alwaysencourage too is to have the
stores, you know, run this VIPevent, Um, so again, we're
paying the store and the storepays the consumer.
Um, so, run this, run this, um,you know big VIP, you know wine
and cheese, and have a specialsale for these people come in to
(13:41):
collect your money Um and off.
And actually we talked to astore this past weekend at the
show and they're like well, wegive cash, you know we pay, we
give their refund back in cash,because you know you're not
going to let that money burn ahole in your pocket, you know
you're going to actually use itand spend it right back into the
store, which is great.
And you know, usually with thattoo comes a lot of press.
You know you'll get interviewedby local channels and one of
(14:03):
our stores that we insured gotinterviewed by Today Show and
yeah.
So it's great press and you geta lot of excitement around it
and you know people starttalking about you and really you
get known for the promotion andso every year they're, you know
, very eagerly anticipating andwaiting for that sales period to
come up and they'll, and itgives you a competitive
(14:24):
advantage as well.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
It's really quite interesting because you're
totally right, it like becomeslike a jackpot, which is so
funny because, like they're noteven the ones that like won,
it's like they are the ones thatare just like the
intermediaries or thebeneficiaries of it all, but uh,
yeah absolutely.
It's so fascinating though.
So, um, I've heard of otherevents, um like with national
(14:48):
rarities.
They do these um estate buyingevents and when someone gets
their money they actually offeryeah like um a percent increase
or something if they sign thecheck back over to the to the
business.
But I, yeah like a percentincrease or something if they
sign the check back over to theto the business.
But I, yeah like paying in cashand having, like you know, kind
of like a making a to-do out ofit is definitely something that
sounds like it would be reallybeneficial to do.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, and it's worked outpretty well and it's.
It's so exciting for the storesand even for us to see that you
know like it can, because goodpublicity for them is good
publicity for us.
So, um, it really is a win-winand so I guess it.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
I'm assuming that is like a net positive event for
the store.
Um, is that something then theyare going to?
They just build it into theirmarketing calendar.
Are you seeing stores that like, like you said, doing this year
after year?
Is this something?
Do they usually keep thegoalposts the same so that they
can speak about it moreregularly, or is it?
(15:48):
Are they changing it?
What do you find?
Speaker 3 (15:50):
We find that, yeah, usually they'll run it around
the same time and people whohave run it once usually do run
it again because, again,consumers love it.
And so they, they really wantthey're anticipating them to run
the promotion again every yeararound that time.
That said, too, we we havestores that will run it multiple
times, so not only the holidayseason, but we have a store that
(16:10):
runs it if it hits a hundreddegrees on July 4th.
So, yeah, so it's, it's reallyflexible, the product at least,
and so you can really cater itto whatever time that you need.
And oftentimes we'll say, like,if there's a, a lull, and say
and saw the sales there, maybe,you know, I don't know, like
April it might be a downtime,and so they want to try to boost
(16:32):
up sales during a lower, lowerrevenue generating time.
Um, then you know, run thepromotion then, because, uh, the
promotion is theoreticallysupposed to boost sales, uh, and
so you know, come in and duringApril, and if it's um, if it
rains an inch on mother's day,uh, for example, um, so it's
super flexible, um, so we canreally cater and customize the
(16:54):
promotion to to whatever thestores need.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
And you guys are in IJO, I believe correct.
Yeah, We've been members for 21years.
Wow.
So being a member of IJO.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
are you specifically working mostly with jewelers?
Yeah, being in IJO.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
yes, I always that like networking effect I always
see, especially with IJO.
They're constantly always likeworking together and like
sharing ideas and I can onlyimagine what like the buzz would
be if you know someone hits onyou know one of these promotions
because it's just like, yeah,like that money kind of frees
back up with the customer.
(17:33):
And I could personally I wouldnever let that money just sit in
my pocket.
I would have to go buy matchingearrings now, you know that
kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Obviously you have to .
Yeah, and it's really greatCause I do like, the members are
like family, you know, and so,um, and they're not like
directly competing too, they'rejust, you know, they're jewelers
from all over the country andso, um, everybody shares ideas
and everybody, you know like,and there obviously are some
things that don't work, and sothey will share that too, like
try instead of doing this, youknow, maybe try this instead, or
(18:04):
this promotion works great forus, and this is what we did, and
so everybody is, you know,collaborating and sharing ideas
and brainstorming, and so itreally is wonderful to see, and,
and anytime that you know we'vehad a hit or or or a store is
like, well, you know, if anybodywants to know about the
promotion, tell them to contactme, and we're, like, we're so
appreciative of that support.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Mm-hmm, and so if someone is interested in
starting one of these, wouldthey be able to approach you and
just say like, hey, we havelike a local sports team or
something like that?
Or is there like a vettingprocess?
Because I know, like, forexample, vegas, when it comes to
setting lines and gambling andstuff like that, they sometimes
(18:45):
don't take like amateur eventsbecause it's too uno, um
unofficial.
Do you guys have like oh, ithas to be like a, like a either
the weather or a professionalteam, or could you do this for
like your local I don't knowhigh school team or something
like that?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Um, so it gets.
It's a bit more difficult withhigh school just because there's
no stats.
You know there's no stats thatwe can can run Um, but, uh, you
know, like we usually call D1schools, we can, there's a lot
of stats around them.
So it's it really is.
If we can research it and findinformation and numbers, then we
can ensure it, Um, but I meanno, no promotion is too small or
(19:27):
too great for us, Um, and youknow we, even if you don't uh,
purchase the insurance, like,just call us, you know, we're
happy to talk to you, we'rehappy to brainstorm Um, because
we don't, we, although we areinsurance geeks, we are
marketing people too and we lovetalking to people.
We love, um, we love create,getting creative and, um, and
you know, if also, budget isalways, uh, you know, a concern,
(19:48):
is always, you know, a concern,and so you know we're really
sensitive to that.
And so we can back into budgetstoo, Like if they say, well,
really, my budget is, you know,$5,000.
That's it, that's max what Ican spend.
So we say, OK, sure, no problem, Well, why don't we do this?
We'll back into that $5,000.
And these are the ideas thatyou can do.
(20:13):
So we love, we love, you know,we love customizing these
promotion.
That's what we do on a dailybasis.
I mean, there's, there'snothing that's cookie cutter for
us, and we always love to thinkoutside of the box too.
So it's, it's.
It's a fun, it's a fun.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
It sounds like an awesome, awesome niche to be in,
because it's like a mixture ofmarketing data and statistics
and also like gambling.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
It sounds like someone would be.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
This is exactly someone's cup of tea.
That sounds very cool.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Yeah, it's a lot of fun.
We see something differentevery day.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Now, Robin, if someone wanted to reach out and
they were interested in runningone of these events, what would
the process be like and how canthey get ahold of you?
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Yeah, probably the easiest way is to go to our
website, which is wwwtmhcccom,so tokyomarinehcccom and then go
to the prize indemnity section.
My contact information is onthere, or you can shoot us an
email.
Promotion, I think it'spromotion ins.
(21:12):
That's uh, H C, T, M H C, Ccom.
Um, but I'm happy to talk toanybody.
Um, this is uh.
I love talking to people.
I love, like, as I mentioned, Ilove getting creative and and
uh, just spit balling,brainstorming.
So uh, uh, anytime.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
And if anybody does one of these events and it does
hit and it's like a cool, likecrazy event, I would love to
hear about that.
That sounds really, reallyinteresting, especially some of
the stuff around local sportsteams, just that that kind of
stuff just integrates you somuch more with the, with the
community and the scene andstuff like that.
That it's a layer beyond justlike marketing.
(21:48):
So I really, um, now I'm likethinking of as many ideas as
possible, so it sounds like areally cool time.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
It is, and I'll have one, one short story for you.
We uh insured a promotion forthis jeweler Um, and he just
like I don't know, I had reallygood at uh and really lucky, and
so he ran a promotion aroundlike the safety a safety
happening during the Super Bowl.
This is years back, um, and uh,he's a big Alabama guy, so it
(22:15):
was an Alabama Auburn game, um,you know, if they shut out the
other team and like he just hadthis string of of, it actually
happened.
And so the latest one was therewas a safety.
It was like first play of thegame, um, and so I shot him a
text and I'm like, okay, you'recut off, jokingly, of course,
but yeah, he had a good run withthe promotions and it was a lot
of fun to see.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
The guy needs to stop being a business owner and
become a full time gamblerbecause, like that kind of stuff
.
I feel like that would pay outpretty good.
Good for him.
Wow.
Thank you so much, Robin.
I really appreciate your time.
It's a really cool concept Ilove doing, having people do
something different.
You know, something that standsout a little bit more and, like
you said, I could definitelysee how this would be something
(22:56):
someone would become like knownfor or something like that.
So it's a really cool concept.
I'm glad you guys are doing it.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Yeah, thank you for having me.
This is a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Cool, everybody.
We'll be back next week,tuesday, with another episode.
Cheers Bye.
All right, everybody.
That's the show.
Thanks so much for listening.
My guest this week was RobinLang with Tokyo Marine HTC.
If you're interested in hostingone of these events, you can
learn more in the show notesbelow.
This episode was brought to youby Punchmark and produced and
hosted by me, michael Burpo.
This episode was edited by PaulSuarez with music by Ross
(23:36):
Cochran.
Don't forget to rate thepodcast on Spotify and Apple
Podcasts and subscribe for moreweekly episodes and leave us
feedback on punchmarkcom.
Slash loop.
That's L-O-U-P-E.
Thanks.
We'll be back next week,tuesday, with another episode.
Cheers Bye.
Welcome to In the Loop, or if it rains on your
wedding day promotions andthings like that, where you get
your money back on yourpurchases or the retailer pays
out purchases If it has somespecialty event.
That's probably low percentage,but it does happen and it's
these really cool promotions.
I feel like that really changeup the marketing landscape for a
(00:39):
store a little bit and we talkabout how those events happen
and how they are able tocalculate the odds so that their
business doesn't go under ifyou know, a blizzard
surprisingly happens orsomething like that.
It's a cool conversation.
Maybe that's something thatyou'd want to try out for your
store and if you're interested,their information is in the show
notes below.
Thanks and enjoy.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
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Slash go.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
And now back to the show show.
What is up everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo.
I'm speaking with Robin Langfrom Tokyo Marine HCC.
How are you doing today?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Robin, I'm great, thank you.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
I'm so excited to get a chance to speak with you.
I've heard a lot about these.
You know promotions and youknow very commonly referred to
as like blizzard promotions orrain on your wedding day
promotions, things like that.
Can you sort of set up for theaudience what it is that Tokyo
Marine does?
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Sure, in this specific category, it's what we
call prize indemnity and weatherpromotions, and essentially I
mean it is insurance.
So it may sound boring, howeverit's the exciting insurance I
like to call it.
And prize indemnity is really amarketing tool, a way for
companies to offer, you know,these large prizes but really
(02:57):
pay just a fraction of the cost.
So, you know, keeping verymindful of their balance sheet
and and, like I said, offeringlike a million dollars, $10
million, you know, full refundsand, but the insurance policy is
paying off and so they'rereally only paying a fraction of
that price.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Very cool and it's usually tied to some type of
event.
Are you guys very likestatistic or data driven, in
that we know exactly what thelikelihood an event is going to
be, because I imagine where I'mat it's snowing right now, so
it's going to snow no matterwhat versus.
You know, maybe in the Southit's a half of a percent of a
(03:35):
chance.
Is that something you guys arerunning like, so that you know
what the likelihood of anoutcome is going to be?
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Yeah, absolutely, you're spot on.
It really is a numbers game forus, even the weather, which is
completely unpredictable, as wesay, but we try to make it as
predictable at least a numbersstandpoint as possible.
So that's not just weather.
So we do a lot of other typesof promotions, like online
promotions and probability typepromotions, sports, statistical
(04:03):
promotions, and with weatherit's the same way.
What we're doing is we'rebasically looking at the number
of times that this particularthreshold hits, and so it
becomes a numbers game, and welook at 30 years in the past
days around it, and so it's justreally a pure calculation for
us.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Really interesting.
So, to give an idea, could youset up, for example, what one
promotion might look like?
So, for example, how far aheadof time is someone contacting
you to set up something, andthen what is it?
Is it usually around a holidayor a time of the year?
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Yeah, oftentimes I say for jewelers the most
popular time is during theholidays.
So they'll say, you know, comein and make a purchase from
Black Friday until Christmas Eve, and if it snows six inches on
New Year's Day, you get yourpurchase for free.
And so, really, timingstandpoint, people will start
planning maybe October or so.
(04:58):
But we always say, you know,what you want to do is plan
ahead.
Give yourself enough time to beable to market this properly,
get the word out about yourpromotion.
That way you can start to, youknow, generate interest and
generate awareness and really beprepared, you know, not only
for yourself but training youremployees so that they
understand the promotion.
And one of the biggest reallyrecommendation that we say too,
(05:20):
is make your promotionbelievable, because if you say,
you know you're on upstate NewYork and so six inches of snow,
oh easy, that's totallybelievable.
Same for us, and we're fromBoston.
But if you said you know, ifit's no six inches at LAX, no
one's going to believe that.
So I mean, who knows?
But yes, you definitely want tomake it, you know, simple, easy
(05:43):
to understand and believable,because because that's what's
going to, you know, generate theinterest and that's going to
give people the incentive to belike, yeah, that definitely can
happen.
So why wouldn't I buy, you know, my jewelry from the store?
Speaker 1 (05:55):
So that's kind of like the buy now reasoning is
that you should go with thisbusiness and spend your money
with them because you have awhatever 5% chance that you get
a full refund.
Is it usually a full refund orare there more customizable
terms Like what have you heardin the past for different stores
?
Speaker 3 (06:11):
We typically will see full refunds, just because
that's that's easier tocommunicate.
Um, however, really we'd leaveit up to the stores so they can,
they can pick whatever theywant.
You know, maybe it's you get,um, you know, a thousand dollars
back, or or you can getsomething else, but, um, but
really it's again easy tocommunicate, you just get a full
refund on your purchase.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
And we can get into results later on the episode.
But if you don't want me askingwhat percentage of events
actually have to pay out, do youhave any statistics around?
Speaker 3 (06:41):
that Um, I?
It's a hard question to answer.
We absolutely have paid out,for sure, um, but because it's
kind of a you know, it's allstatistical in nature, like if
you run it for a long time, theneventually it's going to happen
, um, and so I can't say, likeevery five promotions we pay out
.
But all I can say is that weabsolutely do pay out, um, and
(07:02):
it just, you know, just likewith the lottery, there's maybe
the odds are long, but it couldhappen, there's still a chance
to happen, and so you know, Ican't give a definite number,
but statistically speaking it'sgoing to happen.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, and so we've talked about, you know, rain on
your wedding day.
That's one that I've seenbefore.
I've seen snow on I think it'son Christmas, and that amount, I
guess, matters a little bitless because it's dependent on
the location One of the onesI've heard about but this isn't
(07:35):
related to jewelry, even in theslightest but my mom growing up
in Syracuse, the SyracuseUniversity team, the men's
basketball team, if they scoredover I think it was over like 75
points or something in a game,then you would get free like
five chicken nuggets orsomething from like a local
place.
Is that something you've seen?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
like sports related to promotion events Definitely,
and that's probably one of ourmore popular promotions to
ensure too.
So we do.
You know all sorts whatever youcan tie a number to.
We insure.
So we insure a large furnitureretailer out in Massachusetts
and they have an endorsementdeal with the Red Sox and so
oftentimes when you have theseendorsement deals, they're
(08:17):
expensive and so you're alwayslooking for ways to monetize
that investment, get your returnon investment.
So they run a promotion, youknow, around the Red Sox, and
you know sometimes it's if theywin the world series, it's a no
hitter.
And we are like we have a teamof actuaries looking at this and
so we're like, oh, how oftendoes this happen?
And does it make a differenceif it's American league or
(08:38):
national league?
And and you know, it doesn'tmake a difference if it's before
All-Star break or afterAll-Star break?
And so, yeah, we're alwayscrunching numbers and you know
sports, it could be, you know, acertain feat to happen.
But it could also be, you know,for we ensured a promotion,
pretty sizable one for a billiondollars, where if somebody
predicted the perfect lineupduring opening weekend of the
(09:00):
NFL, then they win a billiondollars.
So that in that aspect, we'renot looking at really statistics
and yes, we are, but we'relooking at results from past
contests that they ran and we'relooking at, like, well, how
many people you'll probably havethe average.
The average person is probablygoing to be maybe 90 percent of
the population that that submitsan entry, but then you're also
(09:20):
going to have people who arelike office pools or like
polluting, you know so.
So we have to take that intoconsideration too, and so so it
really is like a numbercrunching analytical process
that we go through.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, Wow, what a really neat kind of concept and
it keeps us sort of fun.
But, like with the Red Sox anda side note boo, we hate the Red
Sox, we love the Red Sox ableto use, for example, like Red
(09:55):
Sox, assets in their marketingpretty much all year round
essentially, or all season, Iguess being able to promote and
say like, oh yes, we work withthe Red Sox, blah, blah, blah.
Like if, uh, if they score over10 runs in a game, then, uh,
you get 10% off your purchase,whatever.
And being, how often do theyscore over 10 runs?
(10:16):
It's like I guess that doesn'treally matter, but they're able
to use that promotion materialso often that it's, uh, it
probably pays for itself, Iimagine.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Yeah, right, right, and that that is the ultimate
goal is to, you know, createsales and and boost your sales,
um, and so you're getting yourreturn on investment in that
aspect.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Really neat, Robin.
We're going to take a quickbreak and when we come back I'd
love to talk a little bit moreabout what the payout process
would be like if this was tohappen.
So everybody, stay with us.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
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Speaker 1 (11:46):
And now back to the show.
What is up everybody?
I'm still speaking with Robininlang from tokyo marine hcc and
we're talking about uh, I keepsaying, weather-based promotions
, but I'm learning that's notthe name for this episode, it's
(12:06):
more like how, how do youcategorize it?
promotions okay, yeah, and shakepromotions yeah so let's, we
were just talking about some ofthese long shot events like a
billion dollars in case someonehits this crazy.
It's almost like a parlay, butI'm assuming some of them
probably have shorter odds thanthat and probably smaller
(12:27):
payouts.
So what is the the actualpayout process look like?
Let's say it's if it snows overone inch on Christmas day and
it does.
How do you because I'm surethat immediately, people who
bought their jewelry from ajewelry store during a certain
(12:47):
promotion period are immediatelylooking for their money back
and they're anxious and theywant to make sure it's real how
are you communicating with thecustomer, retailer and, of
course, your, your business?
Speaker 3 (13:00):
yeah.
So with if there is a payout,the policy holder is usually the
store, and so we'll actuallypay the store, which, and it
doesn't take very long,depending on the limit.
Um, we say 30 days, give us 30days, but usually it's much,
much faster than that.
And so we say, in the terms andconditions for the, for the
store just say, you know, maybeit's six to eight weeks or
(13:21):
something, um, to give yourselfa little bit of a buffer.
Uh, but what we alwaysencourage too is to have the
stores, you know, run this VIPevent, Um, so again, we're
paying the store and the storepays the consumer.
Um, so, run this, run this, um,you know big VIP, you know wine
and cheese, and have a specialsale for these people come in to
(13:41):
collect your money Um and off.
And actually we talked to astore this past weekend at the
show and they're like well, wegive cash, you know we pay, we
give their refund back in cash,because you know you're not
going to let that money burn ahole in your pocket, you know
you're going to actually use itand spend it right back into the
store, which is great.
And you know, usually with thattoo comes a lot of press.
You know you'll get interviewedby local channels and one of
(14:03):
our stores that we insured gotinterviewed by Today Show and
yeah.
So it's great press and you geta lot of excitement around it
and you know people starttalking about you and really you
get known for the promotion andso every year they're, you know
, very eagerly anticipating andwaiting for that sales period to
come up and they'll, and itgives you a competitive
(14:24):
advantage as well.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
It's really quite interesting because you're
totally right, it like becomeslike a jackpot, which is so
funny because, like they're noteven the ones that like won,
it's like they are the ones thatare just like the
intermediaries or thebeneficiaries of it all, but uh,
yeah absolutely.
It's so fascinating though.
So, um, I've heard of otherevents, um like with national
(14:48):
rarities.
They do these um estate buyingevents and when someone gets
their money they actually offeryeah like um a percent increase
or something if they sign thecheck back over to the to the
business.
But I, yeah like a percentincrease or something if they
sign the check back over to theto the business.
But I, yeah like paying in cashand having, like you know, kind
of like a making a to-do out ofit is definitely something that
sounds like it would be reallybeneficial to do.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, and it's worked outpretty well and it's.
It's so exciting for the storesand even for us to see that you
know like it can, because goodpublicity for them is good
publicity for us.
So, um, it really is a win-winand so I guess it.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
I'm assuming that is like a net positive event for
the store.
Um, is that something then theyare going to?
They just build it into theirmarketing calendar.
Are you seeing stores that like, like you said, doing this year
after year?
Is this something?
Do they usually keep thegoalposts the same so that they
can speak about it moreregularly, or is it?
(15:48):
Are they changing it?
What do you find?
Speaker 3 (15:50):
We find that, yeah, usually they'll run it around
the same time and people whohave run it once usually do run
it again because, again,consumers love it.
And so they, they really wantthey're anticipating them to run
the promotion again every yeararound that time.
That said, too, we we havestores that will run it multiple
times, so not only the holidayseason, but we have a store that
(16:10):
runs it if it hits a hundreddegrees on July 4th.
So, yeah, so it's, it's reallyflexible, the product at least,
and so you can really cater itto whatever time that you need.
And oftentimes we'll say, like,if there's a, a lull, and say
and saw the sales there, maybe,you know, I don't know, like
April it might be a downtime,and so they want to try to boost
(16:32):
up sales during a lower, lowerrevenue generating time.
Um, then you know, run thepromotion then, because, uh, the
promotion is theoreticallysupposed to boost sales, uh, and
so you know, come in and duringApril, and if it's um, if it
rains an inch on mother's day,uh, for example, um, so it's
super flexible, um, so we canreally cater and customize the
(16:54):
promotion to to whatever thestores need.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
And you guys are in IJO, I believe correct.
Yeah, We've been members for 21years.
Wow.
So being a member of IJO.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
are you specifically working mostly with jewelers?
Yeah, being in IJO.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
yes, I always that like networking effect I always
see, especially with IJO.
They're constantly always likeworking together and like
sharing ideas and I can onlyimagine what like the buzz would
be if you know someone hits onyou know one of these promotions
because it's just like, yeah,like that money kind of frees
back up with the customer.
(17:33):
And I could personally I wouldnever let that money just sit in
my pocket.
I would have to go buy matchingearrings now, you know that
kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Obviously you have to .
Yeah, and it's really greatCause I do like, the members are
like family, you know, and so,um, and they're not like
directly competing too, they'rejust, you know, they're jewelers
from all over the country andso, um, everybody shares ideas
and everybody, you know like,and there obviously are some
things that don't work, and sothey will share that too, like
try instead of doing this, youknow, maybe try this instead, or
(18:04):
this promotion works great forus, and this is what we did, and
so everybody is, you know,collaborating and sharing ideas
and brainstorming, and so itreally is wonderful to see, and,
and anytime that you know we'vehad a hit or or or a store is
like, well, you know, if anybodywants to know about the
promotion, tell them to contactme, and we're, like, we're so
appreciative of that support.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Mm-hmm, and so if someone is interested in
starting one of these, wouldthey be able to approach you and
just say like, hey, we havelike a local sports team or
something like that?
Or is there like a vettingprocess?
Because I know, like, forexample, vegas, when it comes to
setting lines and gambling andstuff like that, they sometimes
(18:45):
don't take like amateur eventsbecause it's too uno, um
unofficial.
Do you guys have like oh, ithas to be like a, like a either
the weather or a professionalteam, or could you do this for
like your local I don't knowhigh school team or something
like that?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Um, so it gets.
It's a bit more difficult withhigh school just because there's
no stats.
You know there's no stats thatwe can can run Um, but, uh, you
know, like we usually call D1schools, we can, there's a lot
of stats around them.
So it's it really is.
If we can research it and findinformation and numbers, then we
can ensure it, Um, but I meanno, no promotion is too small or
(19:27):
too great for us, Um, and youknow we, even if you don't uh,
purchase the insurance, like,just call us, you know, we're
happy to talk to you, we'rehappy to brainstorm Um, because
we don't, we, although we areinsurance geeks, we are
marketing people too and we lovetalking to people.
We love, um, we love create,getting creative and, um, and
you know, if also, budget isalways, uh, you know, a concern,
(19:48):
is always, you know, a concern,and so you know we're really
sensitive to that.
And so we can back into budgetstoo, Like if they say, well,
really, my budget is, you know,$5,000.
That's it, that's max what Ican spend.
So we say, OK, sure, no problem, Well, why don't we do this?
We'll back into that $5,000.
And these are the ideas thatyou can do.
(20:13):
So we love, we love, you know,we love customizing these
promotion.
That's what we do on a dailybasis.
I mean, there's, there'snothing that's cookie cutter for
us, and we always love to thinkoutside of the box too.
So it's, it's.
It's a fun, it's a fun.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
It sounds like an awesome, awesome niche to be in,
because it's like a mixture ofmarketing data and statistics
and also like gambling.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
It sounds like someone would be.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
This is exactly someone's cup of tea.
That sounds very cool.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Yeah, it's a lot of fun.
We see something differentevery day.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Now, Robin, if someone wanted to reach out and
they were interested in runningone of these events, what would
the process be like and how canthey get ahold of you?
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Yeah, probably the easiest way is to go to our
website, which is wwwtmhcccom,so tokyomarinehcccom and then go
to the prize indemnity section.
My contact information is onthere, or you can shoot us an
email.
Promotion, I think it'spromotion ins.
(21:12):
That's uh, H C, T, M H C, Ccom.
Um, but I'm happy to talk toanybody.
Um, this is uh.
I love talking to people.
I love, like, as I mentioned, Ilove getting creative and and
uh, just spit balling,brainstorming.
So uh, uh, anytime.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
And if anybody does one of these events and it does
hit and it's like a cool, likecrazy event, I would love to
hear about that.
That sounds really, reallyinteresting, especially some of
the stuff around local sportsteams, just that that kind of
stuff just integrates you somuch more with the, with the
community and the scene andstuff like that.
That it's a layer beyond justlike marketing.
(21:48):
So I really, um, now I'm likethinking of as many ideas as
possible, so it sounds like areally cool time.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
It is, and I'll have one, one short story for you.
We uh insured a promotion forthis jeweler Um, and he just
like I don't know, I had reallygood at uh and really lucky, and
so he ran a promotion aroundlike the safety a safety
happening during the Super Bowl.
This is years back, um, and uh,he's a big Alabama guy, so it
(22:15):
was an Alabama Auburn game, um,you know, if they shut out the
other team and like he just hadthis string of of, it actually
happened.
And so the latest one was therewas a safety.
It was like first play of thegame, um, and so I shot him a
text and I'm like, okay, you'recut off, jokingly, of course,
but yeah, he had a good run withthe promotions and it was a lot
of fun to see.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
The guy needs to stop being a business owner and
become a full time gamblerbecause, like that kind of stuff
.
I feel like that would pay outpretty good.
Good for him.
Wow.
Thank you so much, Robin.
I really appreciate your time.
It's a really cool concept Ilove doing, having people do
something different.
You know, something that standsout a little bit more and, like
you said, I could definitelysee how this would be something
(22:56):
someone would become like knownfor or something like that.
So it's a really cool concept.
I'm glad you guys are doing it.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Yeah, thank you for having me.
This is a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Cool, everybody.
We'll be back next week,tuesday, with another episode.
Cheers Bye.
All right, everybody.
That's the show.
Thanks so much for listening.
My guest this week was RobinLang with Tokyo Marine HTC.
If you're interested in hostingone of these events, you can
learn more in the show notesbelow.
This episode was brought to youby Punchmark and produced and
hosted by me, michael Burpo.
This episode was edited by PaulSuarez with music by Ross
(23:36):
Cochran.
Don't forget to rate thepodcast on Spotify and Apple
Podcasts and subscribe for moreweekly episodes and leave us
feedback on punchmarkcom.
Slash loop.
That's L-O-U-P-E.
Thanks.
We'll be back next week,tuesday, with another episode.
Cheers Bye.
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